Ford FE Big Block: 360 to 390 Conversion! Start to Finish
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- Опубликовано: 14 дек 2021
- Start to finish 390 FE build using a 360 FE core from a 72 Ford F250.
FordManDan's 2nd engine build video: This time a Ford Big Block! Lots of good engine building info as well as FE specific details! Check it out.
Shortcuts & Parts info below:
Ford FE Engine Info 2:10
Main Components 7:42
Camshaft 13:30
Main Bearings 16:46
Rear Main Seal 20:10
Thrust Bearing & Main Bearing Clearance 27:05
Crankshaft Install & Torque Sequence 33:03
Piston Rings and Rod Prep 41:04
Piston Install & Rod Endplay 1:04:22
Timing Set & Fuel Pump Eccentric 1:12:35
Oil Pump Drive Shaft 1:31:35
Head Gasket & Cylinder Head Install 1:39:00
Oil Slinger & Front Cover 1:45:13
Oil Pan Sealing 1:54:28
Hydraulic Lifters 2:02:53
Valley Pan & Intake Gasket Info 2:05:55
Intake Manifold Sealing 2:09:10
Rocker Assemblies 2:14:31
Engine Start up 2:19:21
Pistons: UEM Silvolite 1131H (Flat top with 1.76 comp height)
Camshaft: MEL-MTF-4
Head Gasket: Felpro 8554PT
Intake Gasket: Edelbrock 7224 (heat-riser block off)
Stock Style Intake Gasket: Felpro 90415 (use with valley pan and carb w/ choke) 
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This was probably the best full assembly video of an FE block I've watched so far. You explained the steps, focus areas, and nuances with JUST the right amount of detail. Looking forward to referencing this as I build my 390.
Thank you for the very kind words. Glad you enjoyed it.
Literally only 1 minute into the video but I already know its gonna be great
I appreciate your confidence! Thank you.
Good point on the oil pump driveshaft, ARP is a must.
I know this video is not new. But I sure enjoyed watching it. I worked at a Ford Dealership most of the '70s when about every other vehicle that came in had an FE or FT engine. Some of the things you made a point to mention, like the bolts on the cam plate and the oil slot on it as well, were told and shown to me by old mechanics who are long gone. I am going to subscribe to your channel. 360s & 390s are a blast from the past of this old mechanic. Thank You.
Thank you for taking the time to write this. My dad also worked at Ford dealers (Parts Department) from the mid 70s up until 1991 when he passed. I'm glad people, such as yourself appreciate the video and the details within. I hope to make more in the future.
Wonderful video. The rare expert builder who is also an expert instructor and damn good videographer. Well-done.
I just bought a ‘69 F-250 and the motor comes out soon. This info is gold. Thanks!
Thank you for the positive words Chris! Have fun with that 69 FE Truck of yours. Hope the video will help you.
The bevel. must go against the fillet of the crankshaft. That is a great point to make. The rods must have the little bevel together. GREAT point. The wide fillet radius must be against the crank fillet radius. Good point!
This was an exceptional home video recorded at a good pace for experienced builders and those new to wrenching on FE's. They do have their idiosyncrasies as most engines do. I feel you covered all the necessary materials. I'm sure this 390 will make someone happy for many years . Again, very well done 👍 and you have a new , old subscriber.
I appreciate you taking the time to leave that very kind comment. I'm glad you enjoyed the video. I hope to have a few others coming in the future. Plenty of engines in the queue (sitting on stands)!
@@Fmandan77 any 460 's sitting around? I'd like to see how well the Edelbrock Aluminum heads , standard port work with a 280 magnum Comp camshaft and an air gap or RPM intake work. Looking to possibly use those heads in my jet boat .
@@NobilityandLoyalty No 460 blocks. I currently have a 289, 351w, 340 Mopar and Aluminum Gen 2 Hemi on engine stands.
I would put a 428 agricultural crank in it and put some Molmar rods in it, ARP hardware. A set of Trick Flow heads. And a small roller cam. This will last 20 years so why not?
Please make more videos. You did an outstanding job. I actually feel confident in my knowledge and skills to do this myself now.
Thank you for the very kind words. Other videos are certainly a possibility, but I think they'll be shorter. This one was fun to create though. Thanks again!
VERY Good Video !!
Thank you John. Glad you enjoyed it.
I would have even put a 410/428 crank in it. You can bore it .030 and put the 410 crank in for a budget 416.7 bruiser . 10:1 and a little bit of porting and it can make you happy!
Bearing crush is very important.
When prepping the block and con rods, I use a fine file possibly with 320 emery cloth to dress the sharp edge of the bearing bores. This is especially important opposite the side with the cutout for the bearing tangs. With freshly machined main and con rod big end bores, the sharp corner can scrape metal off the back of the bearing shells. Light filing will just round off that edge slightly.
That's a really good tip Dale. Much appreciated.
I love the video man keep up the good work
Perfect static compression ratio, my 428 lasted in my 75 F250 4WD and 3 speed with 35" tires. She got rode very very hard but never over revved but was run fo 6000 on occasion when it was necessary but not doing burnouts, no clutch popping, etc
awesame video man! helps a lot!
greetings from AUSTRIA
Thank you for the kind words. Glad to be helpful to my European Ford friends! :)
fantastic content full of great info, i love it
Thank you Earnie!
Amazing video! Thank you so much. I will be doing basically the same project for my 75 highboy this winter and will no-doubt be adding a few more views to this vid for ya haha
Very happy to hear the video is and will be helpful! Best of luck on your highboy project!
2:12:00 Before you torque down the intake manifold put the distributor in, then torque down the intake. Great video and thanks for taking the time to help us out. You described the cam dowel and eccentric so I understand how to do mine!!
Thank you for the complement and I'm glad the video was helpful to you. I install the distributor just prior to the first start up as I use the distributor opening in the intake to pre-lube the engine with a drill and shaft. I also clock the rotor so it's right about 10-12 degrees BTDC on plug wire #1 so that it starts right up. I'm not fully sure what benefit you would receive by installing the distributor while installing the intake and torquing it town. I'd be afraid that the distributor would hinder the intake from seating and not seal properly up front. No reason to risk that.
@@Fmandan77 I might of phrased it wrong. After you set the intake on the engine, before tightening the intake bolts put the distributor in place. Then tighten and torque intake bolts then remove the distributor. Because if you just tighten the bolts the intake could be a little off and the distributor might not fit in. I Haven't done this yet it's something I read. I'm waiting for my parts to arrive before I get into it and I'll be watching your video as I start the assembly.
@@scrapplepig So it's for the purpose of aligning the the intake so the distributor fits correctly, makes good sense. I haven't run into a problem yet, but then again many of the engines I build, don't require the distributor to pass-through the intake like this one. Either the intake bolts did their job perfectly, or I just lucked out. Thanks for the Tip!
never heard of this being an issue. Your intake is aligned to your heads and china wall. That's all. You can't install your intake based on where the distributor is. I had one rebuilt and got it back with no distributor, wasn't an issue when I put mine in. It would make no sense to try to align your intake to the distributor bore. @lepig.
Not to mention, binding up that distributor hold down bolt could break the intake, especially aluminum. it's very weak there. trust me. I would know. I will never use a hold down bolt again and will use a stud from now on. The hold down bolt isn't meant to do anything but keep the distributor from turning.
I would shop around for a 410-428 crank and some 1.66 compression height pistons and good gapped rings. A small 270S Comp cam but as a hydraulic roller so breaking in is no issue. And use all ARP hardware you can. This would be a strong but pump gas 410. At .030 over a 416. It would be sweet. An RPM intake and a 750 with headers would be 450 hp, 480ft lbs of torque. Nice job you are doing.
Great stuff. Thanks for the content
Just bought a 68' F100 with the 360, this is exactly what I want to do with it, maybe the best instructional video available, thanks.
Congrats on your purchase! I hope the video is helpful. If you have any questions, please leave a comment.
If you have a 68 360 you have a good one,the compression should be above 150 or 160 about a 9:1 engine. I had a stock 68 w/360 , at 95,000 the compression was over 170 psi on 7 cylinders . After 69 Ford shortened the rods .060” (a lesson I learned the hard way)and used dished pistons . I 82 I decided to completely paint and restore my pickup @ 95k. I had my hands a 74 360 . The plan was to rebuild it then swap engines, only having my truck down for a day or two. I knew 69 and later had lower compression but I didn’t know how. I checked with Ford racers , shops and engine rebuilders . Some said “it’s the pistons “ , I got new flat tops , you’ll be fine. “They did with the heads”, I got 390 car wedge heads, “you’ll be fine. With the swap complete and done my new engine only had 145psi in all cylinders, I was dumb founded. With cam, 4 brl. And headers it seemed slow than my original 360 and it got less mileage. About one year later I found a couple of shop manuals one 68 one 1970. Checking the specs I found the later rods were actually .060 shorter . Given that was the first 360 I had ever seen a part I didn’t think anything of the pistons being short (.060”) of the top of the cylinders. My old engine…??? I had already given it to my brother in law , he just honed the cylinders, cleaned up the heads and used ford high performance 390/427 cam IGAVE HIM. In his F150 4x4 4spd.with 33” it would press you back in the set in 3rd gear, it was a screamer. I was going to pull mine apart to make a 390, actually closer to 406 because it was bored .060 over, but I bought a new 85 diesel instead. Build that 68 360.
Build it as a 410. Balance isn’t cheap but 20 ci is always worth it. From a 360. You bore it .030 and add the 22 ci the crank adds that’s 25 ci. Nothing to sneeze at. The 410/428 cranks are externally balanced and will need a 410 flex plate, or for a manual, a balance is about the same as the flywheel. I always internally balance and it is a poor boys 428. At 417ci, 416.7 it’s your moneys worth.
I just used a low mileage 390 for the block to build a 445 CI FE. Still have the spare parts, 2U crank, etc. One day I figure it'll be used for a 360 to 390 conversion.
That should be a torque monster. Yeah, keep those parts handy!
@@Fmandan77 the 445 was run on an engine dyno. It came in at 514HP and 600 lb-ft of torque.
@@danielmarek4609 Very respectable!
@@danielmarek4609what cam did you go with on your 445 setup?
I highly recommend that you use the lubricant recommendation of the bolt or stud manufacturer to coat the threads. I have never used anti-seize. Always use the hose on rod bolts. And as you said be sure the the cap matches the fillet.
The rod to stroke of the 390 is the same as a 427 FE , so it is really a great combo. The MT-4 is a fine truck cam. It will be done by 5000-5200, so a 600 Holley with headers and an Edelbrock Performer RPM. It is an awesome intake and 1.75 primary headers with 3 inch collectors will be perfection and it will be a torque beast!
Great job…
I see your using the C8AE-H heads. Very commen 2bbl head used on 2bbl 390's & the older 360's. They have the low exhoust ports so be mindful of that when choosing headers & header gaskets. They work well for trucks. Even though they are the commen run of the mill head people make good power with them. They work well. Good video.
P.S. the 4x4's use a rear sump oil pan with there own dip stick & tube. That's were you would want to plug the front hole in the block. That's for car & 2wd truck front sump oil pans.
I got new heads on my 390 but it originally had C8AE-H heads and with just a intake and headers change it made some torque!! On a 66 Comet GT.
thanks
Alot of engines had less compression than what they were advertised. I use the same pistons you have & my deck is cut so the pistons actually come out of the block by .005. With a .050 thick head gasket & C4AE-G heads its only 9.3 to 1 compression.
C8ae-h heads were also used on the mustang 390 GT as in the original " Bullit " Mustang Steve McQueen made famous
Very interesting, I was not aware.
It will be nice to see another edited version of this that cuts out the repeating of information. The timing set & cam retain plate install was particularly painful!
That looks like it'll be a great engine. However, I do have a somewhat bad experience with the 1/4" stock oil pump driveshaft. I had a 352 I tore down that was a good runner, upon inspection of the drive shaft it was nearly stripped out where it fits into the oil pump itself. It was getting ready to fail, and for that reason I'll only use the ARP driveshafts. Most of the later Ford V8's that came after the FE got 5/16" driveshafts. They'll twist like a pretzel if something locks the pump up.
Yikes, you got lucky. I agree it's always a good idea to spend a few extra bucks on the ARP shaft.
I believe the big block ford's stock oil pump shaft is a little more robust than the SBF units, which made me feel good about running this one. I replace all my SBF oil shafts with ARP. Thank you for the comment, it's good information for anyone building a Ford to consider.
@@Fmandan77 I did some searching last night and the 351w351c,351m,400 and since the 429/460 use the same distributor as a Cleveland it would be 5/16 as well. It baffles me why they didnt upgrade the 302 engines to the 5/16 driveshaft when the 351w always had it. Ford felt the need to use a 5/16" driveshaft in the FT engines but chose to keep the FE 1/4". Ford stuff I guess...LOL
@@MattsRageFitGarage Good information. I don't know why Ford made that decision. When in doubt, switch it out (to ARP).
@@MattsRageFitGarage The ARP is good. I use the one that is round and becomes FE car size on each end. One thing that I like is that it is harder to twist off. The FT engine uses a larger shaft and if the block has the larger hole and the FT pump is still available, back in the ‘70s you could get a Ford Racing HV pump and Driveshaft that would fit the shaft in the FT distributor and it was round and had a hex on each end like the ARPs had. Likely discontinued after Dry Sump became common. Back then I used it for insurance racing on dirt. I wish you could still do that.
@@fenatic7484 I have the ARP driveshaft in 2 FE engines and it definitely seems like it would take a lot to break that thing, probably take out the distributor gear or roll pin before the shaft would break is my guess.
Factory 360 FE pistons were the pistons used in the 410 FE Mercury. In fact they are stamped 410 if I remember correctly. A comp 268h cam with a Edelbrock streetmaster intake, Holley 750 cfm and headers sure wake up the 390 fe
The numbers do not add up. Deck heights are all the same. A 360 is basically a bored 352 with a compression height of 1.825".
The 410 is a stroked 390 using the same stroke used later in the 428. The compression height of the 410 pistons is 1.674".
The 352 used longer con rods than the other FE engines at 6.54", while the rest used a rod length of 6.48". I am not certain of the rods used in the 360 but they would be one of the two lengths listed. Using the 6.489" rods with the 3.5" stroke crank would require a compression height of 1.876", with the 4.05" bore.
Ya, the 360 didn't use 410 pistons. The 360 used 390 4v pistons. A high compression piston in a 390 but a low compression in a 360.
However the mid 70s 390s in the pickup trucks did use 410 pistons. In the 390 they were low compression. In reality the 410s were lower compression than what they were advertised at also. Alot of engines were.
i need to do this with my 69 f250
Using white lithium grease or anti seize will clog up the oil passages when first start. It will also void any warrenty on the parts too and yes the companies for the parts can tell you used something besides engine assembly lube
I'm always willing to learn from others, but I can't imagine something as soft was lithium grease being able to stop oil flow at 70-90 psi on start up. ARP calls for use of their own anti seize product, which is anti-seize and tens of thousands of engine builds have survived, so I'm not sure exactly where your concern is coming from. Additionally, if you have an engine failure on and engine you built yourself, you're going to eat the costs whether it was your fault or not.
Very good video , and lots of good tips in comments
Question i have is would it be almost the same to turn a 360 into a 410 ?
I had a mildly moded 410 when i was a kid and always wanted one that was well done up
Yes, the 410 shares the same bore with the 360 and 390. Only the rotating assemblies are different. The 410 and 428 shared the same stroke on their crankshafts. The 428 just had an extra big bore. These engines are all related and quite similar in many ways.
I got the 428 Super Cobra Jet is the fastest car ever had my life my brother got in it and stalked it down ale to Black March down the road and flipped it over three times and student it down the road on this top he said that he's your morning no more he was going to send it to the junkyard but I got it
Awesome video I was taught to set my distributor in before tightening intake is this necessary?
On any application where the distributor seats through the intake manifold, like an F.E Ford or even a SBC, it's a good idea to gently fit the distributor in place before tightening down your intake bolts. This would potentially allow the intake manifold to shift slightly to ensure you distributor shaft alignment to the oil pump etc. In doing so, you're eliminating a potential fitment or even oil pump shaft wear issue, even though the odds are good that you'd be okay anyway.
The tang on your fuel pump eccentric looks like it's pre-bent as if the large washer behind the cam bolt is supposed to smash that down when you tighten it. Either way, there's not a whole lot of shear load on that tang so I don't think it really matters if you shave it or bend it.
That's totally possible John. I will say the tang was pretty stout, and I wasn't convinced it would bend and allow the eccentric to sit flush, so for me, shaving it down a bit provided the peace of mind I was looking for. I'll keep your input in mind for the next eccentric I encounter! Thanks.
I hope you used loctite on the cam retainer and cam bolts. I have had them come loose in the passed.
Yup, I sure do.
working on fe 360 timing chain got motor out rebuiling can put timing chain in
Well I didn't watch the video I just seen the title, my two cents ,something to consider. If you're going to do all that, what about the jailbreak or Breakout FE stroker kit. 445ci? I base this philosophy on, after a week a month or a year, you're going to get used to that 390. And with today's power numbers, and you don't have room for a 460 block. Seems the way to go. Check it out before you make your decision✌
With a 390 in it.
I meant to say this in my last comment
i have the same ring compressor if you turn it over it tightens up the ring ends better can we get some lube between the 2 parts of the fuel pump drive
Mike, thank you for the tip on the ring compressor. I recently started using tapered ring compressors after my old unit I used in this video failed on me. The tapered ones make it so easy, but you have to buy them for the specific bore size you're using.
I'm not sure if your comment about the fuel pump drive was a suggestion or a question. Were you referring to the two pieces that fit into each other? I've always used on piece units like most small block fords, so if there needs to be lube between them during assembly, I wasn't aware. It seems like they stay in place and wouldn't wear too much against each other, but hey I've been wrong before.
so the directional rod thing would be 1 2 3 4 would have bevelled edge with arrow on piston and rods , 5 6 7 8 bevelled edge would be the other way to piston arrow , is that right ? , enjoyed this vid ,you would be a great teacher .
Thank you Victor. Yes, you have the right idea. Cylinders 1,2,3,4 are off-set forward of Cylinders 2,4,6,8. This means the beveled edge on the big end of the rod for cylinders 1,2,3,4 would face the front of the engine and the beveled edge of the rods for cylinders 2,4,6,8 would face the back of the engine. Another way to look at it, is that you want the largest bevels away from each other on the rod journal and the non-beveled edges together-meeting in the center of the journal.
Again great video. On installing the crank gear you put it in dot up when no. 1 piston is top dead center. Does it matter if it compression stroke or exhaust stroke? I will be doing this in a a couple of days as I finally have all my parts. I guess you would have no idea which stroke you would be on with no lifters but I want to make sure. Thanks I'm sure I will have more questions as I go along on my install.
Good question. Short answer is: The "dot" on the lower gear will be straight up at TDC of both compression and exhaust strokes. It's the dot on the upper (larger) cam gear that will be 180 degrees away on the exhaust stroke. It's hard to mess this up as long as you're sure #1 is at TDC. Remember the crank is making two revolutions for every one revolution of the camshaft.
The only potential issue (fairly rare) is a camshaft or timing set being manufactured incorrectly.
@@Fmandan77 Ok I got it thanks!
This was truly a remarkable video/ & explaining step by step 👏👏 have one question, has that engine had any lifter noise now at any point? Only reason I ask is yes its an non adjustable valve train, but ford shop manuals still have a set clearance tolerance to be measured at valve stem/rocker arm ,(which is basically the valve adjustment as well to each cylinder). Which is also called the preloading of the pushrods to lifters. (Which all this should be checked with lifters that aren't soaked in oil so you can actually be able to compress each lifter & make sure you have the correct preload on them. Thus installing the correct length pushrods , the factory 9.59 might be to long especially if you had the heads milled & or just used a thicker head gasket than stock . So I'm just curious if you got any clatter since no preloading of the lifters was done. 🤔🧐curiosity killed the cat , but wise man asks the other wise man for his thoughts & outcomes. You might need 9.56 or so.
This was a great video and very informative. I have a 1976 F250 4x4 with the original 360 that I am planning to do something very similar with. I don't know if you are going to see this comment, but I was wondering what crankshaft and rods did you use and where did you get them? Any help is greatly appreciated! Thank you!!
I don't recall the exact year of the crank and rods, but they were mid 70s if I remember correctly. Both the crank and rods were purchased as a set from a local machine shop for $400. Thank you for the kind words, I'm glad the video has been or will be helpful to you.
The final year of 390 production was 1976, so that's perfect for your F250. Good luck with it!
Nice video and well detailed! Ive been working on a 66 390FE and I can't figure out why I can't get oil to prime up to the (both) heads! I took the Rocker bolts with the oil passage it to see if I can shout oil to the ceiling and nothing. Any help PLEASEEEE!
To troubleshoot this I would connect a mechanical oil gauge on the engine, pull the distributor and with a pre-oiling shaft on a corded drill (in reverse), I'd attempt to see if the gauge shows oil pressure when running the drill. If not, make sure your oil pump drive shaft is properly sitting in the oil pump and didn't come out of position. If you still have no oil pressure and the shaft is in the correct location where it can engage with the distributor shaft (when installed) you may have a spun bearing or a bearing that was installed incorrectly blocking the flow of oil within the block.
@@Fmandan77 Dude if this is the only two issues that it could possibly be I owe you a 6 pack of 🍺 or my favorite size 1/2 barrel keg……. Thank you so much for replying 😀😀😀😀 thanks 🙏🏾
@@kenyonc7162 Or you might not have all your oil passage plugs in,. Some people miss the plug in the distributor hole.
dumb question when you found top dead center before installing the timing chain did you just turn the crank shaft until the number 1 piston was flush with the port? And another question does the amount of stroke from the crankshaft matter or does it just need to be a 390 crankshaft. does a bigger stroke affect anything?
Yes. Any time the piston in the number one cylinder is flush with the deck you are at or extremely near TDC.
Extra information about this you may or may not need at this time:
Keep in mind, once you properly install your timing set (with both dots near and aligned with each other at TDC) your TDC events are now phased. This means the two dots will only realign every other time that the number one piston reaches TDC. This is important for when you're installing your distributor. Most people realize that you install a distributor at TDC to ensure it's timed correctly, so they look at the TDC marks on the balancer. This method is only accurate 50% of the time. You MUST install the distributor on the compression stroke (when the two dots are aligned) or your distributor will be 180 degrees out from where it needs to be to run.
I personally take notes on valve position (which ones are open) on specific cylinders to confirm TDC / Compression stroke, while others use their thumb over the spark plug hole on Cylinder #1 and wait until compressed air forces itself by the thumb and then make a slight adjustment of the crankshaft to set the timing marks on the balancer to TDC before installing the distributor. The method I use, is much easier, but requires a valve cover to be off, or assurance that you didn't turn the crankshaft after reinstalling a valve cover before installing the distributor.
Thanks for all of the good info, I'm going to install an Edelbrock manifold in a month or so on my engine. Do you torque the intake down soon after placing the bead of Right Stuff or after it sets up? Thanks again for your help.
Thank you Fred. The "Right Stuff" sets-up very quickly. Make sure you first prepare your side intake gaskets. I use black RTV around the water ports and sometimes Edelbrock's "Gasgacinch" around the intake ports. The black RTV sets up slow, no major rush. The FINAL thing you want to do is apply the "Right Stuff" then immediately set your intake straight down and begin bolting it up and following a torque sequence. You CAN use the black RTV in place of the "RIGHT STUFF" if you want more time to work. I really like the RIGHT STUFF though. I wait about 48 hours and then trim (with a razor) the excess STUFF that oozes out front and back.
Also. Have all ten manifold bots ready to bolt m down. You dont wanna have the rvt drying up on you and yiu looking for bolts.
@@Fmandan77 I had the same question, thanks for the reply!
Excellent video.
The rocker arm shaft springs. Do you have an idea we’re I can find some. I have a broken one .
Search "B8A-6587-B" on Ebay. There's a set of six for-sale right now.
Thanks, that helps out. The engine, I was told, was bored 30 over. How can I confirm without tearing into the engine?
@@jasonlittle118 Without paperwork from the machine shop or at least some tear down, you can't tell for sure.
My thinking is this: How well the rings are sealing is more important that whether or not it's actually .030 over. I would run compression test (or a leak-down test) to see if you're engine is healthy and sealing properly. If it isn't, you might be able to assume it wasn't rebuilt recently. Hope this helps.
Maybe more detail on bolts sequence as far as button down the rocker arm to it is hollow I believe you have to start from center out, or at least draw all evenly? Never showed how to make sure rocker tube was cleaned… just saying… lv ur video
I had a 68 F100 single cab short bad
I bet that looked pretty tough. Short beds are awesome.
I once had a 1970 F100 with a 360 fe my dad bought it in 1984 when I was 13 when I was 16 i started driving it until it was stolen im 2008 it had over 500 thousand miles on the truck with the original engine and transmission so how many miles does it take before it needs to be rebuilt.
Wow, 500K on a gasoline engine is rare, but that type of mileage on a transmission is unheard of. Like anything else, lots of variables effect when something needs rebuilt, primarily maintenance and type of use. Oils in the 60s and 70s were not impressive either. Today's oils, although most lack zinc, are formulated scientifically and really help engines last a long time if well cared for. Sounds like some great memories were had in pop's F100. I'm sorry to hear it was stolen.
What happens if I use in my block 360 pistons with bore 4.05 X 3.98 stroke ?
410 cubic inch
Thank you for posting this. I just bought a 1975 F250 with a FE 360. It needs a rebuild due to low compression and coolant in the oil. I’m trying to decide what direction to take it. Can you post links to the parts you needed to buy for the upgrade? I’m curious about the cost of keeping it stock vs. doing it myself vs. having a shop do it. Thank you again.
I will post the part number for the pistons and a few other components I used in the description below very soon. To answer your question about costs: The 390 crank and rods together cost the owner about $300 for used OEM Ford units, but you might be able to find them cheaper. Finding good usable cores that can be machined and resized is the key. In my experience you'll spend about $1500-$2500 at a machine shop depending on what they're doing to the block, heads and rotating assembly. A total head rebuild (includes both heads) may cost $600-$800 for example. Machine shops usually charge about $1000 to fully assemble an engine, but that varies too. Your 360 will cost the same to build as the 390 other than having to acquire the crankshaft and rods. In my opinion, that's $300 well spent if you're going to rebuild the 360 anyway. It's pretty hard to do a COMPLETE engine rebuild the right way for less than $4000 these days, but like anything else, it just depends.
Yes the only difference from the 360 to the 390 is the crankshaft & the set of rods. The 360's actually use the same piston as a high compression 390. Some of them even say "4v 390" right on the side of them. Others will say 360 but they are the same. A 360 is the 390 block & pistons with the 352 crankshaft & rods put in it. Even though they litterly are that simple, when you make it a 390, you do get more than just the 30 more cubic inches. The 390 crankshaft & rods actually move the piston up closer to the deck of the block & your compression increases & the piston will be just under the deck (were it was intended to be originally) and now the quench of the engine is much better now. That's why 390's run so much better than 360's. More than just 30 more cubes. Not to mention a high compression 390 would have a different camshaft.
@@jesseduke694 Thank you Jesse. Good information.
great video came in very handy on my 390 FE build 👍
@@subzerohhhman Right on! Thank you for the friendly comment; I'm glad my video was helpful.
I have the 390 fe in my 66Tbird. I think it's pumping out 315 horsepower and about 400 pounds of torque. Im wondering is it equipped with the 9in rear-end 🤔
It's my understanding that many of those big block Thunderbirds came with both 9" and 9 3/8" rear ends. I believe they look identical on the outside of the housing. If your car is a factory big block car, you likely have a heavy duty rear axle like that.
Ford rated the torque for a 4BBL 390 at 427 foot pounds. The low compression 2BBL 390's had 401 foot pounds.
1.21 should have explained to the youngsters check camshaft thrust properly !
Do you have the cam retainer on backwards the oil galley needs to face the cam
It's installed correctly. When the engine is under load the cam is pulled backwards. The groove is meant to provide oil to the cam gear in this situation as the clearance is tighter under load.
Hello. Nice vid but; Why didn't you match the oil holes in the Block (main) to the main bearings? That's the most important thing when starting to (re)build an FE. And. installing the distributor in its proper location is a key to get proper intake fit. thanks
Sebastian, the main bearing oil openings are larger than the main oil passage openings in the block and they all align correctly to allow for proper flow of oil. Are you suggesting that other main bearing sets would have an identical opening diameter to the opening in the block? That's the only thing I can think-of that you may-be suggesting. If so, I could see the oil pressure increasing by a very small amount, possibly undetectable on a gauge. I don't know what the benefit would be, other than that. As far as the distributor install during the intake mounting -YES, that's an excellent and proper suggestion. The distributor in this case fit perfectly with just the alignment of the bolts to the heads, but in the future, I will definitely test fit the distributor before torquing down the bolts.
@@Fmandan77 hi again. I mean the holes in the Block oil gallery, not in the main bearings.
You can check it for exemple if you like in this Video.
@9min ruclips.net/video/ZxUQgmnefuE/видео.html
Thanks, Seb.
YOU ACTUALLY HAVE THE COMP HEIGHT BACKWARDS ❗️ 360- 1.760, 390- 1.660”. I double checked. Also the 1968 360 is the only year with higher compression about 9:1 and are really good motors. The . 1969 and on had .060” shorter rods, a lesson I learned the hard way. I rebuilt a 74 knowing they had lower compression I ask around at all the shops and builders. How did Ford do it , “ it’s the pistons “, I got new flat top, “you’ll be fine. “It’s the heads” , I got 390 passenger wedge heads, “ you’ll be fine. My rebuild had 145 psi on all cylinders, my old engine had 160-170+ . A year later I got my hands on a 68 and a 70 shop manual I discovered the rod difference .
It appears that Ford used a variety of compression heights throughout the span of the FE engines depending on application. To your point, I think I unintentionally over simplified the compression heights used on these engines. From what I can tell, the factory truck 390 pistons didn't have a 1.76 compression height, but some sources indicate that the passenger car performance 390 engines did as they used a 410 FE piston. The pistons I used to rebuild this FE V8 definitely have a 1.76 compression height. Bottom line, do your homework, and make sure you're using the compression height that will yield that right quench you're aiming for. Thank you for your response!
Ya, only the low compression pickup truck 390s used the 410 piston. The 390 used sevral different pistons but all the other pistons had a 1.776 pin hight. Only the pickup 390s ,& 410 used the 1.66 pin hight piston. 360s used the 390 4v piston.
im building a fe 360 for my 65 galaxie having problems with rear main seal
Hopefully the video helps you out, but if you have any specific questions, feel free to ask.
ok just saw the 428 is .20 ins. of stock more then the 427 , are the jurnols the same size ?
Yup
Ford made a mistake on the 360 FE, lowering the compression because it was a truck engine was not the answer to the issue they faced. It just made them drink more gas and have less power .
Please tell me it's going in that comet/maverick
Haha, that would be nice! Unfortunately it wouldn't fit without big mods to the shock towers. The Maverick is much better suited for a good running SBF.
Could a 360 ford block be bored for 428 pistons?
That's a fair question to which I'll say, probably not. That would be a .080" over-bore which is simply not advised on nearly all engines. However, I've read that certain year 390 blocks which also have the 4.05" factory bore like the 360, could indeed handle the .080" overbore to handle the larger 428 piston. I don't believe the 360 blocks can handle that much over-bore.
What head gasket brand & # might you have used ? It looks to fit your stock heads nicely! Where the gaskets 2.4 on tallness of the ports..thanks bud
Felpro 8554PT
@@Fmandan77 sorry my friend awesome video by the way. I actually meant to say .. what INTAKE GASKET/ BRAND # , you used 🤦♂️🤦♂️.
@@OGSHAKER2020 Edelbrock 7224
Thx my friend & I did watch the full video originally. Awesome stuff.. just went through the intake again. & my apologies you talked about the 7224. That being said you must or customer had the c8 low rise heads wish I did (higher velocity) I have the standard c4 heads (65tbird) my intake ports are way taller 2.3xxxx ..I originally bought felpro 1247s3 but they were 3/16 " to short for my tall port... (is why i asked the question) had to do some research & calln around FINALLY .. found some & ONLY felpro had them 1246s3 (2.4") on tallness. They are going to work fir sure!! Other thing I noticed was the edelbrock manifold intake ports were even smaller than the stock intake ports (couldn't believe it.) I micd. The ports for all my measurements.. the edelbrock intake ports are .5(+¹/¹⁶) shorter than my c4 heads. (Unreal) .stock intake was 3/16 shorter which is .. anyways ill be porting that ebelbrock as far in the runner at least 2in. & take all casting marks off for sure...
I hve all the exact dimensions if you need then head stock intake vs. Edelbrock performer rpm (2105)
Are the 360 and the 390 balanced the same way? Meaning can I use my old 360 harmonic balancer and the same flywheel? And does the rotating assembly need to be balanced by the machine shop when using the 390 rods and pistons ?
Great questions Scott. The FE engines are internally balanced, so the harmonic balancer on FE engines is neutral and interchangeable although some may have different diameters. I can say with certainty that the flywheel or flexplate between the 360 and 390 are also interchangeable as far as balance is concerned, although some internally balanced engines do have a counterweighted flywheel. -The Vortec 350ci Chevy is an example. Where you need to be cautious is with manual transmission applications and clutch size. The 390 uses a flywheel that accepts a 11.5" clutch and the 360 flywheel accepts a 11" clutch. You can modify a 360 flywheel to accept the larger 11.5" clutch by drilling the flywheel for the larger bolt circle pattern required for the bigger clutch. Anytime you use an old flywheel, have it thoroughly inspected and if it's for a high rpm application, get a new one that's SFI approved.
As for rods and pistons, the 390 assembly should have a lighter bobweight as the connecting rods are shorter and the pistons are very close in size and weight. So while you can use the same balancer and flywheel application between the two engines, I'm fairly certain you'd need to have the rotating assembly balanced and material added / removed from the crankshaft depending on which way you were going. Of course you could take rods and pistons from both engines and weigh them, but I have not tried this. Most of the time I'm using an aftermarket piston (lighter typically) and I'm having the engine balanced anyway. Hope this helps!
@@Fmandan77 , yes, that helps, Thank you.
@@Fmandan77 note that the 428 FE was not internally balanced, it can be converted with a couple slugs of mallory.
@@jeffdiehl8394 Thanks Jeff, I was not aware. Good to know!
I've got a 77f250 that someone swapped in a 390. And would like to freshen it up. What's the ballpark price for what you did?
I think a ballpark figure for completely rebuilding this and most common V8's these days (2022) would be about $4000 if you're rebuilding and using the stock heads. This would include full machine work to the block, a new set of pistons, balancing, and as mentioned, a full head rebuild. Most of this cost will be labor at the machine shop. There's ways to cut that cost down, like simply re-ringing your current pistons, and cleaning up the cylinder rather than boring them out, and just installing bearings and fresh gaskets. Choosing how far you want or need to go to successfully rebuild or freshen-up an engine is often dependent on the condition of the engine itself. I've found success with full and light overhauls.
The last engine I built was a Chevy 350, and total costs were closer to $5500, but everything was new and it was a performance oriented build.
@@Fmandan77 thank you!
I am getting a 73 highboy that has a seized engine and I want to build a 390 engine for it
Right on! Well I hope the video comes in handy! Good luck with your HB project!
@@Fmandan77 me too I will probably have to watch your video several times a long time ago I have helped my dad rebuild a 390 for a truck
What is that finish on your floor… your garage looks sweet
Thank you. I wish I knew the base product that was used on the floor as it holds up great and resists scratches. The previous owner gave me a floor acrylic that I brush-mop on once a year after a thorough cleaning -which takes all day / weekend. The Acrylic provides the shine, otherwise it does get dull from dust and regular use. Once it's clean and the acrylic is applied, it looks like a million bucks for several months.
If I'm swapping cranks can I move up to 427 ? Is not a FE block all the same ?
Hello Jeff, the 390 and 427 crankshafts have the same stroke (3.78") and all FE big blocks have the same main journal size of 2.749". The main difference is the factory bore size in the block. The 360, 390 and 410 all have the same 4.05" bore, so building a 390 or 410 from a 360 block is a straight forward. The 427 is the only FE block with a 4.23" bore. The 360 and 390 blocks can be over-bored, but not out to 4.23". Like most American v8 iron blocks, .030" to .060" is about as far as you want to go. Apparently some have successfully bored a 360/390 block .080" to match the 428FE factory bore size of 4.13".
@@Fmandan77 thank you
@@Fmandan77 can the 428 crank fit it a ? .2 longer stroke
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Lo nesesito en español
What if you want the most reliable durable truck engine ever built ever. How do you build dat. God said to me “just leave it alone, it will never fail you”
Where are the little rod lock nuts that Ford installed alone time ago???????
I'm not familiar with them. The rod bolt kits these days use their own hardware. Reusing factory installed 40-50 year-old rod bolts or nuts isn't advised.
Can specs on MT-4? Why didn’t you do a 410?/416
It's usually easier to find a 3.78" stroke crank than a 3.98" unit, at least that was the case when sourcing parts for this build. Basic cam specs are in the video @13:42
@@Fmandan77 It is a great study in using the things that you have and getting the results that you want. I have a 105 mid 70s block and the stuff to build a really strong 400 ci FE with the 3.79 FT crank because it’s steel and it is strong enough to turbocharge. I want to run a single T4 VS7875 Gen2 at 10-12 lbs of boost and with good cam and heads I have it should do very close to 800 hp FW and 725 to the wheels. According to the guys building them the FE can do 4 digit power with that setup. But I don’t think I can put 1200 hp to the ground, lol 😆, 725 hp will do all my Galaxie can do!
@@fenatic7484 Sounds like a fun project! Good luck with it!
@@fenatic7484 if you get 800 hp out of an FE with a stock block and main stud setup and it lasts more than a dyno run I’ll be blown away. I mean what RPM do you plan on running this thing at? I don’t see it.
@@Terminxman I like my FE's around 400 and without windows in the block.
You can stroke it out to a 410! What would be really cool but kinda expensive is a 454! Use the 427, block and 428 crank and rods!! I'd just get a 460 outta a lead sled and do the heads, cam and intake!! Spend the money on a good set of heads! There's a shop in Charlotte NC that sells a package with ported heads, solid lifter cam guarantee to make 600hp! There were 400m cars that had big case C4s in then! That's worth 40hp over a C6! There are shops that can build it to handle a 460 like this!! No, you might kill yourself in it, but it'll take the coroner 6 weeks to get the grin off ur face!!!
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It,s a broken heads ford is your name of this engine
Veary well done video But Trash the Music 🎶 😒
Ha! I'll consider it next time! :)
Something @@Fmandan77. -something sweet to heir 😙🎷🎶🎵🎼. You know .
Umm,......I was taught that no matter what kind of metal you were using for the crank or rod bearings that you " NEVER " touch the inner face with your naked finger......
Hi Charles, I've heard that too. I've read up on this after being barked at over the years and there doesn't seem to be any sort of consensus. Truth is the acidity of motor oil after it gets used a bit is far stronger than anything coming off my hands naturally- and bearings live in these environments for decades without issue. Still, I typically wipe bearings down with a mild solvent before applying assembly lube. Believe me, if I was worried about bare handing bearings, I'd mention it in my video. Thanks for the comment.
@@Fmandan77 Yes, I was always told that the salts from our finger could penetrate and cause pitting in the metals.....
Was gonna watch your video. But those hippies started screaming at me on their music so I cancelled
If we all liked the same things James, the world would be pretty boring. I hope the music didn't ruin your entire day.
1964 390 great engines
1976 360 piece of crap engine
Owner of both of them
I often wonder why we have such lousy design with a "rectangle" exhaust ports and "rectangle" intake ports ????? Dumb !!!!! One more item, why have a 4.650 inch bore spacing, why not a 4.750 bore spacing ???? Again, dumb!!!!!!
A 360 is a 390 block with a 352 crank, a 360 can be corrected with the right set of pistons to bring up compression also the heads you have will easily support over 400HP
Pistons are the same. Change the crank & rods.
If you notice the vertical lines on the side of the block that is a Ford replacement block or could be an engine warranty replacement
Those lines mean it's a heavy duty or a truck block.
The only cam worse than that, is the stock one. Not that its too small, just super old technology. No bueno lol
A worse choice would be a cam that doesn't match the rear gear ratio and stall speed of the intended vehicle. Sometimes just "better than stock" is enough for a simple daily driven pickup.
@@Fmandan77 no I agree. Wasnt making fun of the choice of cams. Its gunna work ok. My point was that this cams tech is 40 yrs old. there are similar cams that perform better everywhere. Cant believe they still sell this one. The dumb thing is , if you go on summit and look at this cam for a sbc, its way cheaper than any other, no matter the brand...Should cost the same across the board
@@Scubasteve22 I typically have custom ground cams made for performance engines I build. When people use the alphabet cams on their SBF engines, they're leaving power and throttle response on the table as the ramp technology is simply outdated. On this 390 build, a few other cam profiles were considered, one's that I preferred, but finding a camshaft in stock during the "plandemic" was pretty difficult. This cam was on the shelf at the local machine shop, and I knew what to expect from it. Given the circumstances, we decided to go with it and the engine runs plenty strong for it's intended purpose.
1 yr later and Im going to ask about the cam plate bolts ...oh great right. ??
If the one with the washer
..did it bottom out ?
Why not shorten it from the thread ..Im confused
Hi Craig. The simple answer is, I chose to run a washer rather than cut the bolt's threads or run a shorter bolt. I would have used a washer on each had I been able to for nothing more than uniformity. I didn't foresee any problems in this decision as clearance between the bolt and the back of the timing gear is the biggest concern. Having a washer on one bolt and not the other doesn't change the torque value or clamping force enough to cause a concern. The engine still runs to this day and I'd expect it to be running 10 years from now as well.
@@Fmandan77 ok just had me wondering
Ty