One of the reasons I became an atheist, (secular human) years ago is that I was introduced to Carl Sagan and his writings. His book " Demon Haunted World: Science as Candle in the Dark" changed my entire life. In the book he discussed his "baloney detection kit" in dealing with what today we call conspiracy theories. Brilliant advice and I use it all the time these days. That said I was a mild Christian and a Republican until I heard Bush announce that he would invade Iraq because God told him it was the right thing to do. So I voted for Obama and left the church. Also left my abusive Christian husband. Then I went back to college at age 50. I am 68 now and still learning but all of my family refuses to talk to me at all, except for my incredible daughter. She was bullied all through school because she was smart and an atheist, but then she got a free ride to UC Berkeley, then to Yale and is now a forester helping to make sure the forests of California don't burn as much as last year. Ya proud mom.
Thank you for raising such a selfless and compassionate daughter. I live here in California and VERY much appreciate the fact that this year has been less burnt than previous years!
I also read many of Sagan's book. When I've been confronted by a overtly religious relative I've said to them, "you believe that because you live in a Demon Haunted World. I do not." I was raised Catholic with is pretty politically middle of the road. But my parents drifted into Evangelical circles where politics is baked in. So now their religion and political ideologies have melted into an alloy that allows their politics to be justified by the divine. You know...like the Taliban.
Ms. Goldberg is a fascinating woman who has a lovely presence on camera. As I listened to her, numerous questions popped up in my head which I regard as a sign it's a good interview. Nice job, Jon. Make sure to bring her back - she's got a lot to tell us.
I love this. As a behavioral health professional it sounds like straight-up motivational interviewing. The goal is not confrontation, but rather to encourage the person you are working with develop their own changes.
As a licensed counselor (MA) who grew up around the evangelical and militia movements that became m@ga, I really appreciate this episode! I’ve been saying this for several years, but I don’t have a platform (considered writing or podcasting around these themes, but always talked myself out of it... is Jigsaw hiring? lol, but seriously...). I hope people can internalize the key points in this interview and aren't too fused with their own biases/beliefs and desire for a simple quick fix to actually accept this assessment and the implications for interventions. That hasn't often been my experience, but maybe enough things have happened that more are ready to hear it now. Also, themes discussed here get at what still frustrates me about the Rachel Maddow episode, how they left out the New Deal’s impact on the environment that made the hearings successful. Economic stability meant people weren’t in constant fight/flight/freeze, and could move on with their lives, build communities outside of hate, and see the facts for what they were. I’m sure at least some portion of republicans fight against social spending because they understand their rhetoric won’t work on followers if they aren’t in a constant precarious state of being; fanatics might be a different story, but they’re a much smaller minority.
Social spending? You mean sending billions to finance actual Nazis in Ukraine, and having some of it kicked back to themselves? That kind of social spending?
@@guacamolekid3899 That's a weird straw man, can't even imagine the jumps in logic you needed to get there. Obviously, I was referring to domestic social spending. WTF does that have to do with Ukraine? Do you think Ukraine is somehow domestic to the US? Or were you just trying to distract and change the subject?
@@allyson87 The vax is the same exact thing- how many leftists took the crap on faith without knowing anything about what it would do to them or what was in it. The same goes for every single issue- Q is no different. The subject is that this gal's uncle is right and she's wrong. All these people are SO smug but NEVER really check stuff out on their own- they believe the fact checkers- all these liars. What do you know about the ACT of 1871? And how does that relate to what we are going through right now in history? MUCH more to all of this they're telling you all. But, the programming won't let you consider anything outside your approved boundries.
The problem I have is I am the isolated one. This is not my reality. Much of my family is Republican and they don’t have the family turning against them, they’re turning against me. Especially because of my view of masks. Even my democrat sister and father think I’m too hardcore worrying about Covid
@@Nortarachanges The battle lines are drawn between 2 factions- the globalists and the populists- the globalists want a one world government- green new deal- social credit system- there would be no such thing as individual rights in that system- the Populists, which are the conservatives and the liberals with some common sense, want a free and independent country that follows our own Constitution. The dems and the rinos are all in with the globalists. Do you really want a one world government?
True, but how do you respond to these people when they show you actual evidence that the left is lying? Do you just ignore them? How long can you ignore the science? Doesn't that make you the fool? Why not listen to both sides and adjust your opinion based on reality?
@@ryanellsworth7246 SO MANY QUESTIONS, SO LITTLE TIME, SO IN ORDER TO ANSWER ALL OF THEM, WHAT IS THIS ACTUAL EVIDENCE THE LEFT IS LYING? YES, YOU IGNORE LIES NO MATTER WHO TELLS THE TALE, BEST I REMEBER ITS THE REPUGLIKKKLAN PART THAT DENIES ALL SCIENCE, BUT GOOOOO ONNNN, I BELIEVE FROM YOUR QUESTIONS THAT YOU ARE THE FOOL, AND WHY DONT YOU ADJUST YOUR OPINION BASED ON REALITY? “There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti- intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” ― Isaac Asimov
Excellent, how about another show on deprogramming your uncle from corporate-Dem brainwashing propaganda, that deceives Dem voters into believing that Dems are not corrupt corporate puppets who block the will of the people, in order to protect corporate interests
I have an older brother who I used to idiolize as a kid. As we got older, he would tell me about vegetarianism and exercise, I would listen with bated breath. Then these conversations turned to George W Bush did 9/11 and Obama is an illuminati under control of Monsanto. When my father was diagnosed with dementia during the pandemic, I had enough and threatened him woth violence if I ever saw him again since he was trying to convince our elderly parents not to take the vaccines and maybe take silver homeopathic drops to kill Covid... I still am angry at him and have not talked to anyone in my family because I am the "angry libtard" who works in tech, and frankly my father was the only person in my family I cared about and he is effectively "gone". I fantasized about using Beth's recommendations but I don't think I have the patience, sadly. I told my wife I will just wait and hope my brother's crazy beliefs die with him someday soon.
I have seen true believers do a lot of work reaching out. It's a bit like hanging out with a Scientologist, each trying to find common ground with the other while knowing the other thinks one has huge blinkers on.
This is effective + very wise advice. But super difficult when the addict is your child, or the mother of your beloved grandchildren. However, Qism is evidence of weakness & fear, imo; addiction is not.
@@freedomofreligion3248 QAnon is a cult, or at least ticks a big number of boxes towards being a cult. Cults aren't easy to leave, even the ones that don't lock the door. That's because the same MENTAL addiction processes are at play. Physical addiction, no, but... I'm sure you're aware of gambling addiction as a thing? I strongly suspect there's behavioral addictions at play. Pretty sure behavioral addiction causes brain rewiring. I'd skim some research blurbs, but it's 920 A.M. here. Basically, the brain only grows new neurons slowly, so any addiction takes _a good while_ to get past. (If you do.)
I hope this approach can help others. My mother and step-father are 20 years deep into every conspiracy out there. They are unreachable, at this point. The well has been poisoned.
My in-laws are devote MAGA supporters. My mother who has battled major depressive disorder, major anxiety disorder & social anxiety since long before I was born(I’m fixing to turn 40). And over the past 7-8yrs she has developed the early phases of dementia. I made the mistake of getting her a tablet & introducing her to RUclips. She *always* sees the negative in literally everything due to major depressive disorder & refusal to try and correct or at least balance her view on even the little things. She has been strongly religious…which in the US deep Southern Baptist church…that means over focus on Revelations & “end times”. So *now* I can see that of course she would be drawn to online “pastors” & groups constantly proclaiming the end times are here. Also bring Republican & her natural tendency to see/believe in the negative of everything…she would be drawn into believing the alt-right conspiracies. Due to other experiences & lack of other experiences my mom has real issue with people disagreeing with her as she takes it as calling her a “liar” &/or “stupid”. Also her instant knee jerk response is to argue/verbally fight over her being right while refusing to even hear much less consider what the other person is saying bc she is busy thinking of the next thing she is going to say. All of which is made worse by her memory/cognitive issues. So now it’s virtually impossible to discuss literally *anything* with her. BC she feels like “knowing” something most others “don’t” shows her intelligence & also bc she spends 90% of her time listening/reading info about conspiracies mixed with end times/dooms day she has little else to discuss…no matter the original conversation topic she eventually links/changes it to conspiracies/religion. And she lives with us…it’s extremely difficult. Especially with my childhood trauma often winning in coloring my reactions. Also doesn’t help being a non-Republican, non-trump supporter, non-conspiracy believer & purely Bible based vs solely/mostly preacher based Christianity, etc in the extreme deep South in America aka almost pure extreme MAGA land.
@@roguewolf7053This sounds like my parents soon. It’s my mom who is showing early signs of dementia. My dad is the one who has always been depressed, cynical, angry, and verbally abusive toward my mom - a lot like Trump but without most of the power. Since the Trump era began, they have become increasingly enmeshed in the RUclips conspiracy videos and Fox News, plus perhaps other sources that I don’t know about and they are hiding. These factors plus my own childhood trauma are making it very hard to interact with them. I have been taking a bit of a break, but I know that a break can easily stretch out into an estrangement. I don’t want to be estranged in their twilight years, but with my own sane and loving family to look after as well, I don’t feel up to interacting with my parents. I don’t have an answer except to keep putting one foot in front of the other, but there’s no rush. We can only do our best with the emotional and financial resources we have.
America really needs adequate, affordable health care. So much of the pain Americans are going through would be lessened if more people had the option to see a therapist. Great podcast, keep them coming :)
Poverty, wealth gaps, poor education - all of these contribute to so many of America's problems, and that's exactly how Republicans and conspiracy pushers want it
A whole lot of pain would be alleviated if people could get the healthcare they need without going bankrupt. Most people who have fallen for the Q and NESARA scams which have become one now are poor people. Most are older too. There’s a lot of desperation. The idea of having their debts forgiven and getting free money and magic beds that cure everything that ails them really appeals to these people. I have cancer and have mountains of healthcare bills now and will have a lot more even with insurance paying a lot of it. It sucks. Everything is so expensive. I’ve had surgeries, done chemo, am doing radiation now and the plan is to do a massive all day surgery with several doctors in the room six weeks after we finish these radiation treatments. Chemo was six grand a week but then I had to get this bone marrow shot 24 hrs after I finished chemo and that one shot was $20,000 and I did this every other week for 24 weeks. Then there’s all the expensive imaging and other tests and of course the ridiculously expensive medicines I have to take. If I survive I’ll take pancreatic enzymes and insulin for the rest of my life. Those enzymes are close to ten bucks a pill and I’m supposed to take two with every meal and one with every snack. I probably won’t survive though. Pancreatic cancer kills something like 95% of the people who get it. I’ve made a lot of money and have paid an awful lot into the system but odds are I don’t make it the seven years it will take for me to be old enough to qualify for Medicare or the five years it will take for me to collect some of that social security I’ve been paying into for all these decades. Instead I’m fighting with an insurance company that keeps screwing us over, always refusing to pay for something. For instance on two surgeries so far they covered the surgery but not the anesthesiologists because their group isn’t under their plan. That’s has happened to my wife too. I had to fight like crazy to get the expensive pancreatic enzymes that have helped me come from looking like a guy just rescued from a concentration camp to a healthy person at a healthy weight. I was starving even though I was eating because my body wasn’t digesting and absorbing nutrients. I hate insurance companies and our damned rigged healthcare system that isn’t really a free market system. They price gouge the hell out of us.
Sometimes family finds more comfort in the fantasy than the hard work required to live in reality. And the worst part is knowing that every day spent not talking to them is a day wasted, but they're so far gone you gotta set sky high boundaries just to protect your mental health. I miss them so much sometimes. Other times hate them for becoming the person they are now. Most of the time I try to forget about them, and take care of my immediate circle. Either way it's fucking terrible. I never stop missing them.
Wow wow wow! This is the best information on this topic I’ve heard. Amazing to see such a brilliant, young person helping us all to navigate this misinformation plague. You go girl with all that brilliance! I’ll be sharing this everywhere! And thank you, because the worry about Thanksgiving is real….but this is helpful.
How to act blue: Hire the most violent long gun open carry people you can find to burn, loot, and kill; hire chynah trollfarms to lie about Republicans, and insult working America 100 times per minute on social media; ignore the terror Texas towns and ranchers are living, while being OUTRAGED if a cop shoots back at a criminal; then lean back with your Birkenstocks up, have a toke, smile innocently, and say, "Let's be kind to one another."
I do work in persuasion every single day. I teach white people to recognize racism. In Michigan. To me the first task is to create affinity. I do that through talking about the surprising facts about myself. Things that break the stereotypes about Lefties... like I have a concealed pistol license and voted for John McCain when I lived in Arizona. The second is to see and hear other people. This is a technique. Mirror body language, make eye contact, match energy, and use their words back at them. If they call me a libtard, I call myself that, too. It removes the power behind it and makes it a joke. That creates affinity. Then listen. Listen well. Listen to how people describe the problem. No judgment. Just listen. Accept their experience as legit and real. We say that when people of color describe their experiences of racism or when women describe harassment. Believe people's experiences. Don't counter with an argument or facts. That's not what they are talking about. They are talking about feelings. Those are real. That's what Trump did and what we never understood. I worked on Hillary's campaign in rural Michigan. Paid staff, not a volunteer. I had to do this then and I do it every day. It is effective.
Have you tried showing them your teeth so they will know you're not a lizard? I have people in my group who have had their heads checked for horns. Thank you for trying to teach racism to people who rely on other people not even being human.
@@intercat4907 not yet. But I did have people pull me aside and offer to walk me to my car. They feared for my life. And, honestly, I questioned whether I wanted to continue this work. But then I thought about some of the people I know who can't just decide to not be who they are. I realized that even considering whether to continue doing this work was a privilege. I decided to walk the talk. I'm 54 with $200k in student loans. Fuck it.
Sometimes when dealing with political conspiracy theorists, I ask them how they survived Jade Helm. Street epistemology can help too. In his early youtube videos, Anthony Magnabosco asks people how sure they are of their beliefs, and asks them to rate how sure, and how, and why they determined this, etc. It's possible to ask people about their beliefs without confronting them directly. Even though it is often used to ask people about religion, it can be used to get people to reason about any belief.
Shock and awe. Because when I hear some of the things they say, I'm just flabbergasted that people I know and love, and even people I don't know (and don't really know how intelligent they are-or are not), say and believe the things they do. Because NONE is backed up with ANY PROOF. They believe SO HARD in this stuff with ZERO evidence. But expect proof that these lies and the propaganda, are not true? I'm just in wonder of HOW I'm supposed to prove something DIDN'T happen?
@@randibgood YES! EXACTLY! I Totally relate. I've found it easier to 'write them off' and just move on. Life is too short to deal with all this 'Q-razy' nonsense.
@@belkyhernandez8281 this is an incredibly thoughtful thing to say. Set some boundaries and continue loving your family. You get one set of blood relatives.
Fascinating interview. I'll use this advice in dealing with multiple people in my life. I've saved this to my library so that I can return for a pep talk.
My best conversation with people who believe the child pedofile ring is this: "You have evidence this is happening? Why haven't you gone to the authorities?"
I've actually talked about that before and what I heard back was "you don't know who you're messing with they could off you(I'm scared for my own life, forget the children!)"
As she said, there's always a seed of truth to most conspiracy theories. There is massive human trafficking happening which includes children. But Ellen Degeneres, for one example, is not drinking the blood of children. Neither are Democrats, as another example. (Or Oprah)!
We all saw what happened to Epstein’s clients … absolutely nothing. So why wouldn’t people believe there is a powerful evil group of men out there? I mean, there obviously is. Just enough truth gets mixed in.
Intractable insomnia makes LOT'S of us spend time online. We should start a club. I do suspect though, that isolation during covid, lot's of people losing their jobs or having them threatened during covid....and not being able to sleep....has led more than one of us down some weird rabbit hole we otherwise would never have considered.
Really an outstanding show on this one. ...This is just about the best out there, and a nuanced explanation on some frameworks to address misinfo, disinfo, & conspiracy issues. Bravo! ...Now, have to follow Beth Goldberg and the Jigsaw team for sure.
Okay. Google's parent company, Alphabet, owns RUclips. Let's start a movement to get Beth GoldBerg appointed arbiter over RUclips's algorithm. Imagine that!
BIG point that can help. If you’ve ever changed your mind about a conspiracy theory, especially if your new view aligns with the family member (but not essential), you can relate how and why you got sucked in and how you got out
Very good point. I know from my own experience of “waking up” from cult indoctrination that there are usually several little things that you notice overtime that “don’t really make sense” though you can overlook them individually in the moment. Then, something happens that is a little more personal (maybe a significant life change, a betrayal, or, an injustice) and you start to remember all those little things that you were avoiding. You might dwell on this for a while before you can’t resist looking for something to prove yourself wrong or, terrifyingly, prove your doubts to be right. You might be justifiably afraid, because usually there are often serious consequences to admitting doubt in the beliefs of whatever high control group you are part of. You might be shunned and ostracized by your friends and family in the (usually insular) group. You may lose your job or home because of it.
Another thing you can try is, ask the conspiracy theorist what evidence they have to back up their claim. And then actually look at it with an open mind to see if maybe you're wrong to assume they're crazy. Though, of course, if they can produce nothing but insisting an insults, there ya go.
I highly recommend watching Philosophy Tube’s video about Transhumanism and it’s connection to a lot of right wing conspiracies. She does a great job of breaking down how conspiracy theories are essentially people trying to express/justify and emotion or opinion with facts, and that’s why it’s so hard to break free or be convinced with logic. They’re clinging to something that makes them feel less anxious and afraid of the world.
What we are witnessing play out on the world stage is more than just a war between nationalism and globalism. It is more than just a war between the new scientific/military elite and the old financial elite. What we are really witnessing is a spiritual war. On one side of this spiritual war is the cabal, a centralized ancient Babylonian Satanic Beast system of enslavement through debt, deceit, rape, torture, sacrifice, blackmail, and mind control. On the other side is a decentralized Alliance of spiritually awakened individuals. There is no one central religious
"express/justify and emotion or opinion with facts"? But the subject of this video is conspiracy theories. In no way rooted in facts. I agree they are trying to express/justify how/why they feel the way they do, but none of the justification is fact based. If they were in any way concerned about facts, they wouldn't need to "break free" and their own "logic" would have already had them convinced
Thank You! I love how you approach conspiracy theorists with compassion and a genuine desire to understand. I've gotten to the point where I've kind of "written off" certain friends. You've convinced me to not give up on those relationships and to approach them very differently.
I like the comparison to addiction, especially for the "true believers." I have been working on my own recovery from the family denial of the disease of alcoholism for decades, and, because one's identity and loved ones are caught up in the system, it is a long, long process that is easy to slip back into since most of the "rescuing" behaviors are highly approved by society in general, since dealing with progressive addiction often requires actions that seem the opposite of compassion (e.g. don't bail the person out; don't keep them from losing their job, etc.) One can be loving without supporting someone in their own self-destructive behavior, though they may never actually change or appreciate you for doing it. It is VERY, VERY important for one's own sanity open-heartedness and self-care, however.
It's fear of the unknown... The rush of having something you feel is secret... And that "secret knowledge" makes you feel special... Which makes you feel like you've regained some control... And then when you're "understanding" gets validated by these internet communities... the echo chamber of these feeling of shared secret understandings starts a self perpetuating feed back loop that reinforces the sense of community and solidarity... And it feeds on these feelings of community and Belonging... it's us versus them... they are the "other" and doubting, questioning, or challenging the groups think beings back the discomfort and feelings of self doubt... Because these communities make these beliefs and conspiracies part of the groups identify so its members see those beliefs are part of themselves and their identity... And anyone that pushes back isn't just questioning their beliefs, ideas or feelings... but they see and feel it as a direct attack on themselves... Who they are... and human beings have an unbelievable aversion to feeling uncomfortable... or feelings unsure... especially about themselves...
It's not 'secret' any more if you learn the truth. None of these people have a stinkin' clue as to what Q is or isn't. What do you think that we think it is?
@@gogudelagaze1585 Maybe people are just too lazy to check anything out- like all of the people here making judgments about q who know absolutely nothing about it.
This is incredibly similar to what I was told when training to be a women's shelter volunteer: you never want to put the person into the position of defending their abuser. It is all validation, validation, validation. like "Wow, that sounds really scary." We would also do an intake interview to ask questions (I think there were 80 of them) along the lines of, "Have you ever had your partner stop you from going somewhere?" or "Has your partner ever stopped you from talking to people?" etc. So if we treat MAGA as we treat domestic abusers, we might have a chance of helping people get out of the cult.
The best way to deal with friends and family with opposing views, is to write down the two opposite views, Then agree to NOT DEBATE them. Next make a list of things that you each agree on related to the subject. Then agree to only discuss common ground and compromise. Whenever a subject drifts back to useless debate, start back at the first step
Great and important conversation. Pre bunking seems like a great approach. I think it’s important to acknowledge that some of these folks are drawn in by isolation and some sort of grievance, but I wonder about those who really have had no reason to feel aggrieved. One of my family members is one of those and it’s been so difficult to get him to see any other point of view outside of the right wing bubble.
You guys really need to talk to the Q anonanonymous podcast about this stuff. They have been at the forefront of this issue for a long time now. I think you guys would have great chemistry and would make for a fantastic interview. I’d really like to see you do more episodes about the Q anon issue. It doesn’t get talked about in detail enough and kind of gets dismissed as “the crazies” but the number of q anon candidates is silently exploding. We need to break out the floodlights and make this a nation wide conversation.
@@patcomerford5596 I'm just saying that there's a LOT more to it than most people realize. The country is in the process of extricating ourselves from the corporation that has controlled us for over a hundred years. A large part of the Q plan (which is world-wide), is getting rid of US inc. I'm sure you realize that DC is not a state, it's a privately owned and run district- owned by the US inc. The IRS, The FED, and other main agencies are actually privately owned corporations under this 'umbrella' of companies, etc. Right now we are in a situation where there are two competing 'shadow governments'. The military at the very top of the food chain takes an oath to defend the country to the CONSTITUTION- NOT to the president or congress. While the left were pre-occupied with impeaching Trump, Trump and his team were making some 'moves' of their own, which was to take certain 'chess pieces' quietly off the table, and carry out certain military operations, etc. There were several executive orders and key events that played out over this time. The corporation, US inc. is owned by the Rothschilds and other rich bankers and royal families. The City of London and the Vatican are the other two legs of the stool- DC is military- London- banking and the Vatican- religious (which is not Christianity). Q said that 'gold would destroy the FED'- the FED is one of the main sources of funding for the 'cabal'- they can literally print money out of thin air and charge interest for it. Remember Trump's world tour in 2018? What countries loved him and gave him high honors? the BRICS countries- who have over 2.3 of the world's population and are going to the gold standard which WILL destroy the FED. What countries and entities hate Trump? The globalists- the same ones who are part of US inc., etc. Our of everything - BRICS is one of the most compelling arguments for the reality of an overall strategy to defeat the globalists.
@@guacamolekid3899 As I honestly said, I do not have the patience with QAnon types and for that you say I am a "jerk". Again I stopped reading your comment at "jerk". It looks like I am not the only one who has not been blessed with patience. Since you have been disrespectful to me, it is a reason why I have no patience for people who behave in this manner. I will leave you with people who can also deal with your propensity for disrespect as you engage with them.
Stteet Epistemology (SE) Peter Bogossian wrote THE book for it. (A Manual for Creating Atheists) Anthony Magnabosco used to create the Street Epistemology platforms for RUclips, Facebook and the rest of social media. SE is a mixture of Motivational Interviewing, The Socratic Method, confidence scales, modeling doxastic open attitudes and creating a mechanism for self interrogation of strong world view beliefs
The most depressing thing about this discussion was that RUclips forced Jigsaw to pay to show these videos on how to identify misinformation on RUclips’s own platform.
Conspiracy-minded people are engaged users. Getting people out of conspiracies reduces engagement. It'd be like tobacco companies voluntarily providing health warnings.
Fascinating discussion. Big institution are problematic too. Abigail on philosophy tube just did a good essay piece on this. You also can't expect everyone to be hyper aware of governance and agency. Also a lot of things like say making an emergency vaccine in 18 months are not possible without institutions of scale This is a crazy knot
For years, tolerance in the US meant "don't talk about politics or religion". So people never had their misinformed ideas challenged. Now that the cork is popped, and we're actually trying to hash things out, those conversations risk making people feel vulnerable and stupid. So we need to treat them the way we wanted to be treated the times that we were wicked wrong about something.
For anyone interested in how to recognize the language and how to think about responses I highly recommend a series by Innuendo Studios called The Alt Right Playbook which delves deep into why a conservative mindset might lead to some of these views and why certain arguments are worded the way they are. It is very enlightening. It also challenges the mindset of moderate liberals who allow fascist rhetoric to perpetuate, and can be quite useful in recognizing some of your own preconceptions.
John. Mate. At about 8.30 you asked about "addiction". Answer spoke around "Community". 2 Points: 1. Imagine the massive psycological/emotional blast Inventors and Academic researchers get when they "find the real answer". That's going on here. These folks actually feel like they have found "the real answer...". 2. I have friends who are in the A.A. Community (maybe should include me) who simply cannot do without the "community". They are addicted again but this time to something wholesome, kind and positive. Keep it up mate. Intelligent discussion always wins.
When you have a country full of people that believe there is a god and that the bible is a factual book, I find it surprising that people are surprised that people also have the ability to believe in Q
An interesting tie-in to a discussion on why some normal people tend to fascism - the effects of loss of identity from cultural and economic change, as with the rise of the internet and mass export of jobs, and the loss of community as people with different beliefs stop meeting socially and lose the sense of neighbourliness. Fear in time of uncertainty adds to the tendency to seek in-group reassurance, to a desire to blame something beyond your group for problems, and to a desire for a leader who will give hope. That discussion ended with the conclusion that the best long-term approach is to be active, welcoming, and kindly in your local physical community.
That Thanksgiving table awkwardness has been happening for much longer than 2016. It's just been more visual, since social media is so VERY much a part of all aspects of our lives, any more. As for them all being redeemable? I have to disagree. Some are just too far gone to even approach, much less attempt to redeem. I've seen it happen. They don't listen when they don't come out of their bunker more than once or twice a year.
I'd like to state that, at least in SOME situations, political ideas can be altered. For example, when Kari Lake was screaming weeks ahead of the election that she was going to be robbed, that the election would be stolen from her, just exactly like Mango Mussolini did, I was stating things in textbanking responses like "if she loses, I hope she doesn't cause problems!" Or, "I hope Lake accepts the election results and doesn't try something fishy." Just that. No arguments with them. No fact listing, nothing hostile. Just the little doubt seed planted. Maybe add how she was already wasting AZ taxpayer money by suing the state, the SoS, Maricopa County, and whoever else she could. Then ask what she was going to do if she lost. And then you leave. Well, Lake lost. And now she's causing trouble again. I'm hoping they remember that little message, and state thinking.
Of course there’s more of it because of the amplification more people are able to influence others and ya people love thinking they’ve found out about something no one knows empowering them to share their thoughts on their if they’re new found information that gives them a sense of being intelligent and a special person that knows secrets
I’m not one of the people you are speaking about. I’m the only one of my friends and family who is totally concerned about our democracy. The rest of my family is (my 2 daughters hate my guts because I don’t let trump live in my head rent free. Since I watched 20 minutes of the apprentice, I had trump’s number. I was mortified when he was elected. I wasn’t wrong. I was 15 months in quarantine because my kids didn’t want me exposed. I don’t even have to say how traumatized I was. I can barely get my legs back under me since 2016. I live in fear and I’m broken down, broken hearted. Here is an example. Yesterday, I said to my daughter that I feel like I’m suffering PTSD from said conversation and from management where I live. That’s a long story too. She scoffed, told me it’s BS. You can change to a positive outlook but you choose not to. My reply was is that what you would tell someone coming home from Afghanistan saving your life? That PTSD Is BS, get over it? Ended up in a huge argument.
Most people don't even know the very basics of what is really going on in the world. It's all based on emotion without any fact, history, context, or details. They spent a lot of money trying to make people hate Trump, and now there are so many who are so focused on Trump that they can't think of anything else. Truth be told, Trump is on the right side of history. You, and the dems and rinos are on the side of the globalists who want a one world government- social credit system- that's call slavery at best- you need to grow up and wake up. Get over you hate of Trump and try and learn something real-
Helpful tip.......when ever you see the term 'Qanon' in the headline, you know they have zero knowledge on the subject. Two examples here is that Beth claims specific dates were prophecised....this is not true. Beth also tries to connect 'Qanon' to violent acts.......but that doesn't add up considering Q stressed no violence many times, and the community supports this 100%.
Find a bit troublesome how people often use the word "conspiracy" alone as a synonym for "conspiracy theory," which in turn in practical terms ends up meaning implicitly always "paranoid baseless theories of mind-boggling crazy conspiracies." Ideally there would be shorter but less euphemistic expression for the latter, without the sort of implicit conflation of any sort of inferred/speculative secretive thing maybe going on as comparably wildly nonsensical. Which sometimes defenders of the wildly speculative kind will even use, trying to somehow put all under the same umbrella of sensible suspicion of undue things going on hidden from the public. Even phrasings like "40% people believe a cabal of people really control things" ends up conflating ideas around secret evil sects, aliens, frog-people, and things more along the lines of democracy really being far from protected from lobbyists acting for the interests of rich/powerful people, just to get richer and/or more powerful, no aliens, druids, cyborgs, vampires, or bird-people involved.
Exactly. For example" they're coming to take your guns" . Bc how could anyone even DO that when w eave two guns per person in Amercia... can't sne dthe troops they d refuse and maybe switch sides especially the national guards for the agrarian states.... I mean it rificulous..ridiculous.... we couldn't even make a start with whatve rmilitary we have here. Just crazy.
I think that during other pandemics, wars, and social unrest periods conspiracies have increased. Perhaps we’re more aware if it today because of the net.
We should have always been teaching how to recognize propaganda, how to recognize mind control and undue influence. Had we been inoculated by this knowledge, which you can't unsee, we wouldn't have had so many people fall prey to lies.
Is not Zen atheist and yet ... And yet, we need a different word. I grew up atheist agnostic but with a spiritual orientation, ahimsa, tolerance, empathy, suspending judgement, qualities which religious people seem too often lacking in.
Mainly, we need to bring back some kind of fairness doctrine to tv, radio, and we should clearly nationalize facebook, youtube and whatever that lunatic is calling twitter now, omg, what a world.
How do you prebunk followers of FOX Entertainment? They are so manipulative with their words, photos and suggestions. Hunter Biden's laptop leads there no matter what is really happening.
Even CBS is admitting that the laptop is real. There were several reporters who saw the full contents early on and they all said that it was shocking how much crime was on it- ranging from blatant treason to crimes against children.
Intriguing, i always knew there was more to life and i have also been looking for a way to find not only protection but a way to be influential to the human society
Just read anything by Dr. Steven Hassan and you'll be able to identify undue influence and mind control. You can't unsee it. He has some videos on RUclips, and his books are on audio, too, if you're an auditory learner and not a visual learner.
I just want to thank the person on the left for letting me know, right away, that I can discount anything and everything coming out of her mouth right now. You will be resisted, Beth.
Well, sadly, I am entrenched in the position that I just refuse to listen to one more conspiracy theory. I just walk away or leave. I'm nobody's psychiatrist and don't feel like dealing with somebody's mental problems. Cult-like behavior is a non-solveable problem. I'd rather take on something constructive.
Totally irrelevant but she reminds me of Jennifer Gray (Grey?) in the Dirty Dancing era. Just to help those who might be distracted wondering who she reminds us of.
Isn't the main problem in the US the prevalence of commercial misinformation campaigns? Like Bloombergs anti-vaping contractors seeding lots of precursor rhetoric for the anti-vaxxers.
Not all of them are struggling. The ones I know have inherited $ or have had pretty upper middle class lives. Where does narcissism come in? Direct quote from a Q person: "The only way for me to have been given this... is by God himself." They push the idea that they have a direct line to God or know more than experts with decades of specialized training and experience. Where does this insane sense of entitlement come from? What do you say to a Q member telling you that George HW Bush (senior) and his wife, Barbara, were both executed at Gitmo? Despite the fact that Bush, Sr. was already frail and in a wheelchair, they believe Q soldiers transported him to Gitmo to exact punishment (hanged him). Imagine feeling joy about an old, frail man being hanged. And that doesn't even get into all the other crazy beliefs or the fact that they are sending their $ to these causes (and to trump) for the past decade. It is extremely disturbing.
This alienation thing doesn’t gel for me. The people I know who believe in them are socially adjusted. Passionate or fanatical political belief hits home. Friends of mine who believe in their team so strongly that they are prepared to believe any evil thing of the other team and that their team is ridiculously innocent are the ones who talk about and are prepared to believe in conspiracies. I think it would be interesting to know what the politics were of the people in the US who believed the JFK assassination was a conspiracy, specifically if they were on one side of the political divide.
Et tu, Brute „Conspiracy“ is not short for „Conspiracy theory“; the two are not synonyms, they are pretty much antonyms. Conspiracies are a thing, they are real (if they are). CTs are wild, and often deliberately conceived speculations on Conspiracies that are completely fictional. Confusing and conflating the two terms makes for muddy language. In at least one case in this poscast you eve used CT when talking about a Conspiracy. I am not delusional about this, that ship has sailed, everybody mixes up the two terms. But language and the world are the worse for it.
Hey, so I have a question. What abou l the conspiracy theories that are true? Shkjld we just stop questioning shit? Because i think we're all way better off with the vigilant 'conspiracy theorists' have been.
"they are just looking for community." Thats all the explanation you need, now take back the identity of what it means to be American and invite them back
My Dad in the last years of his life must of spent 6 or 7 hours a day watching Fox News. There's no way he could ever disengage or critically examine any of his beliefs. Conspiracies are entertainment for lots of people.
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Most leftists, and even many conservatives don't even know the basics of what the history, or details of what the country is facing right now are. All these fancy words and notions mean nothing without something solid to attach them to. Right now the country is in the painful process of extricating ourselves from a CORPORATION that has controlled us through our banking system at first and then gradually through literally every branch of government, and industry. We are going back to a Republic form of government.
Most conspiracy theories are nonsense. But 9/11 is positively the one that I'll never believe the official story. And also one I'm no longer comfortable to talk much about. I don't recommend on educating yourself about it.
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One of the reasons I became an atheist, (secular human) years ago is that I was introduced to Carl Sagan and his writings. His book " Demon Haunted World: Science as Candle in the Dark" changed my entire life. In the book he discussed his "baloney detection kit" in dealing with what today we call conspiracy theories. Brilliant advice and I use it all the time these days. That said I was a mild Christian and a Republican until I heard Bush announce that he would invade Iraq because God told him it was the right thing to do. So I voted for Obama and left the church. Also left my abusive Christian husband. Then I went back to college at age 50. I am 68 now and still learning but all of my family refuses to talk to me at all, except for my incredible daughter. She was bullied all through school because she was smart and an atheist, but then she got a free ride to UC Berkeley, then to Yale and is now a forester helping to make sure the forests of California don't burn as much as last year. Ya proud mom.
You should be very proud of yourself and your wonderful daughter. Happy Thanksgiving!
🎉 congrats for your journey let’s lift up each other and future generations
Thank you for raising such a selfless and compassionate daughter. I live here in California and VERY much appreciate the fact that this year has been less burnt than previous years!
I also read many of Sagan's book. When I've been confronted by a overtly religious relative I've said to them, "you believe that because you live in a Demon Haunted World. I do not."
I was raised Catholic with is pretty politically middle of the road. But my parents drifted into Evangelical circles where politics is baked in. So now their religion and political ideologies have melted into an alloy that allows their politics to be justified by the divine. You know...like the Taliban.
Amazing story. I went Cal and then to UCSC later in life. So I'm not Bear but Slug. My dad was at Yale Bulldogs as I recall. Peace.
Ms. Goldberg is a fascinating woman who has a lovely presence on camera. As I listened to her, numerous questions popped up in my head which I regard as a sign it's a good interview. Nice job, Jon. Make sure to bring her back - she's got a lot to tell us.
She looks demented and sounds deranged. You lefties really are off the deep end.
I was thinking the same thing. There is something very genuine and soothing about the way she speaks.
I love this. As a behavioral health professional it sounds like straight-up motivational interviewing. The goal is not confrontation, but rather to encourage the person you are working with develop their own changes.
Yes. The changes YOU want them to have.
As a licensed counselor (MA) who grew up around the evangelical and militia movements that became m@ga, I really appreciate this episode! I’ve been saying this for several years, but I don’t have a platform (considered writing or podcasting around these themes, but always talked myself out of it... is Jigsaw hiring? lol, but seriously...). I hope people can internalize the key points in this interview and aren't too fused with their own biases/beliefs and desire for a simple quick fix to actually accept this assessment and the implications for interventions. That hasn't often been my experience, but maybe enough things have happened that more are ready to hear it now.
Also, themes discussed here get at what still frustrates me about the Rachel Maddow episode, how they left out the New Deal’s impact on the environment that made the hearings successful. Economic stability meant people weren’t in constant fight/flight/freeze, and could move on with their lives, build communities outside of hate, and see the facts for what they were. I’m sure at least some portion of republicans fight against social spending because they understand their rhetoric won’t work on followers if they aren’t in a constant precarious state of being; fanatics might be a different story, but they’re a much smaller minority.
Social spending? You mean sending billions to finance actual Nazis in Ukraine, and having some of it kicked back to themselves? That kind of social spending?
@@guacamolekid3899 That's a weird straw man, can't even imagine the jumps in logic you needed to get there. Obviously, I was referring to domestic social spending. WTF does that have to do with Ukraine? Do you think Ukraine is somehow domestic to the US? Or were you just trying to distract and change the subject?
@@allyson87 The vax is the same exact thing- how many leftists took the crap on faith without knowing anything about what it would do to them or what was in it. The same goes for every single issue- Q is no different. The subject is that this gal's uncle is right and she's wrong. All these people are SO smug but NEVER really check stuff out on their own- they believe the fact checkers- all these liars. What do you know about the ACT of 1871? And how does that relate to what we are going through right now in history? MUCH more to all of this they're telling you all. But, the programming won't let you consider anything outside your approved boundries.
The problem I have is I am the isolated one. This is not my reality. Much of my family is Republican and they don’t have the family turning against them, they’re turning against me. Especially because of my view of masks. Even my democrat sister and father think I’m too hardcore worrying about Covid
@@Nortarachanges The battle lines are drawn between 2 factions- the globalists and the populists- the globalists want a one world government- green new deal- social credit system- there would be no such thing as individual rights in that system- the Populists, which are the conservatives and the liberals with some common sense, want a free and independent country that follows our own Constitution.
The dems and the rinos are all in with the globalists. Do you really want a one world government?
“The truth has no defense against a fool determined to believe a lie.” - Mark Twain.
I hadn't read that quote before. I like it.
True, but how do you respond to these people when they show you actual evidence that the left is lying? Do you just ignore them? How long can you ignore the science? Doesn't that make you the fool? Why not listen to both sides and adjust your opinion based on reality?
@@ryanellsworth7246 SO MANY QUESTIONS, SO LITTLE TIME, SO IN ORDER TO ANSWER ALL OF THEM, WHAT IS THIS ACTUAL EVIDENCE THE LEFT IS LYING? YES, YOU IGNORE LIES NO MATTER WHO TELLS THE TALE, BEST I REMEBER ITS THE REPUGLIKKKLAN PART THAT DENIES ALL SCIENCE, BUT GOOOOO ONNNN, I BELIEVE FROM YOUR QUESTIONS THAT YOU ARE THE FOOL, AND WHY DONT YOU ADJUST YOUR OPINION BASED ON REALITY? “There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti- intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” ― Isaac Asimov
Excellent, how about another show on deprogramming your uncle from corporate-Dem brainwashing propaganda, that deceives Dem voters into believing that Dems are not corrupt corporate puppets who block the will of the people, in order to protect corporate interests
Heeey On my RUclips channel i do food reviews while I’m super high
It's frustrating that we are the ones that have to do all the work. It takes truck loads of empathy and that is in short supply these days it seems.
I have an older brother who I used to idiolize as a kid. As we got older, he would tell me about vegetarianism and exercise, I would listen with bated breath. Then these conversations turned to George W Bush did 9/11 and Obama is an illuminati under control of Monsanto. When my father was diagnosed with dementia during the pandemic, I had enough and threatened him woth violence if I ever saw him again since he was trying to convince our elderly parents not to take the vaccines and maybe take silver homeopathic drops to kill Covid... I still am angry at him and have not talked to anyone in my family because I am the "angry libtard" who works in tech, and frankly my father was the only person in my family I cared about and he is effectively "gone". I fantasized about using Beth's recommendations but I don't think I have the patience, sadly. I told my wife I will just wait and hope my brother's crazy beliefs die with him someday soon.
I think Empathy is like Love. You DO it. It doesn't just happen. You simply DO it. Set your mind to it and just DO it.
I have seen true believers do a lot of work reaching out. It's a bit like hanging out with a Scientologist, each trying to find common ground with the other while knowing the other thinks one has huge blinkers on.
I treat my Q family like the addicts they are. Lots of love, lots of boundaries, and lots of distance.
Heavy on the distance. Greetings from Indonesia.
This is effective + very wise advice.
But super difficult when the addict is your child, or the mother of your beloved grandchildren.
However, Qism is evidence of weakness & fear, imo; addiction is not.
How do you address when they show you evidence that the left is lying? Do you just ignore the truth?
Q seems very cultish, those group meetings and the slogans, a sense of belonging
@@freedomofreligion3248
QAnon is a cult, or at least ticks a big number of boxes towards being a cult. Cults aren't easy to leave, even the ones that don't lock the door.
That's because the same MENTAL addiction processes are at play.
Physical addiction, no, but...
I'm sure you're aware of gambling addiction as a thing?
I strongly suspect there's behavioral addictions at play.
Pretty sure behavioral addiction causes brain rewiring. I'd skim some research blurbs, but it's 920 A.M. here.
Basically, the brain only grows new neurons slowly, so any addiction takes _a good while_ to get past. (If you do.)
I hope this approach can help others. My mother and step-father are 20 years deep into every conspiracy out there. They are unreachable, at this point. The well has been poisoned.
i have a daughter who watches Fox all day. :(
My mom and stepdad drank the kool aid. The fake garbage they believe is insane
My in-laws are devote MAGA supporters. My mother who has battled major depressive disorder, major anxiety disorder & social anxiety since long before I was born(I’m fixing to turn 40). And over the past 7-8yrs she has developed the early phases of dementia. I made the mistake of getting her a tablet & introducing her to RUclips. She *always* sees the negative in literally everything due to major depressive disorder & refusal to try and correct or at least balance her view on even the little things. She has been strongly religious…which in the US deep Southern Baptist church…that means over focus on Revelations & “end times”. So *now* I can see that of course she would be drawn to online “pastors” & groups constantly proclaiming the end times are here. Also bring Republican & her natural tendency to see/believe in the negative of everything…she would be drawn into believing the alt-right conspiracies. Due to other experiences & lack of other experiences my mom has real issue with people disagreeing with her as she takes it as calling her a “liar” &/or “stupid”. Also her instant knee jerk response is to argue/verbally fight over her being right while refusing to even hear much less consider what the other person is saying bc she is busy thinking of the next thing she is going to say. All of which is made worse by her memory/cognitive issues. So now it’s virtually impossible to discuss literally *anything* with her. BC she feels like “knowing” something most others “don’t” shows her intelligence & also bc she spends 90% of her time listening/reading info about conspiracies mixed with end times/dooms day she has little else to discuss…no matter the original conversation topic she eventually links/changes it to conspiracies/religion. And she lives with us…it’s extremely difficult. Especially with my childhood trauma often winning in coloring my reactions.
Also doesn’t help being a non-Republican, non-trump supporter, non-conspiracy believer & purely Bible based vs solely/mostly preacher based Christianity, etc in the extreme deep South in America aka almost pure extreme MAGA land.
@@voirworks6002 I try & will keep trying but nothing has stuck so far. 😕
@@roguewolf7053This sounds like my parents soon. It’s my mom who is showing early signs of dementia. My dad is the one who has always been depressed, cynical, angry, and verbally abusive toward my mom - a lot like Trump but without most of the power. Since the Trump era began, they have become increasingly enmeshed in the RUclips conspiracy videos and Fox News, plus perhaps other sources that I don’t know about and they are hiding. These factors plus my own childhood trauma are making it very hard to interact with them. I have been taking a bit of a break, but I know that a break can easily stretch out into an estrangement. I don’t want to be estranged in their twilight years, but with my own sane and loving family to look after as well, I don’t feel up to interacting with my parents. I don’t have an answer except to keep putting one foot in front of the other, but there’s no rush. We can only do our best with the emotional and financial resources we have.
America really needs adequate, affordable health care. So much of the pain Americans are going through would be lessened if more people had the option to see a therapist. Great podcast, keep them coming :)
Poverty, wealth gaps, poor education - all of these contribute to so many of America's problems, and that's exactly how Republicans and conspiracy pushers want it
A whole lot of pain would be alleviated if people could get the healthcare they need without going bankrupt. Most people who have fallen for the Q and NESARA scams which have become one now are poor people. Most are older too. There’s a lot of desperation. The idea of having their debts forgiven and getting free money and magic beds that cure everything that ails them really appeals to these people.
I have cancer and have mountains of healthcare bills now and will have a lot more even with insurance paying a lot of it. It sucks. Everything is so expensive. I’ve had surgeries, done chemo, am doing radiation now and the plan is to do a massive all day surgery with several doctors in the room six weeks after we finish these radiation treatments. Chemo was six grand a week but then I had to get this bone marrow shot 24 hrs after I finished chemo and that one shot was $20,000 and I did this every other week for 24 weeks. Then there’s all the expensive imaging and other tests and of course the ridiculously expensive medicines I have to take.
If I survive I’ll take pancreatic enzymes and insulin for the rest of my life. Those enzymes are close to ten bucks a pill and I’m supposed to take two with every meal and one with every snack. I probably won’t survive though. Pancreatic cancer kills something like 95% of the people who get it. I’ve made a lot of money and have paid an awful lot into the system but odds are I don’t make it the seven years it will take for me to be old enough to qualify for Medicare or the five years it will take for me to collect some of that social security I’ve been paying into for all these decades. Instead I’m fighting with an insurance company that keeps screwing us over, always refusing to pay for something. For instance on two surgeries so far they covered the surgery but not the anesthesiologists because their group isn’t under their plan. That’s has happened to my wife too. I had to fight like crazy to get the expensive pancreatic enzymes that have helped me come from looking like a guy just rescued from a concentration camp to a healthy person at a healthy weight. I was starving even though I was eating because my body wasn’t digesting and absorbing nutrients. I hate insurance companies and our damned rigged healthcare system that isn’t really a free market system. They price gouge the hell out of us.
Therapy should not just be free, it should be mandatory. and therapists should be high quality
Sometimes family finds more comfort in the fantasy than the hard work required to live in reality. And the worst part is knowing that every day spent not talking to them is a day wasted, but they're so far gone you gotta set sky high boundaries just to protect your mental health. I miss them so much sometimes. Other times hate them for becoming the person they are now. Most of the time I try to forget about them, and take care of my immediate circle. Either way it's fucking terrible. I never stop missing them.
Wow wow wow! This is the best information on this topic I’ve heard. Amazing to see such a brilliant, young person helping us all to navigate this misinformation plague. You go girl with all that brilliance! I’ll be sharing this everywhere! And thank you, because the worry about Thanksgiving is real….but this is helpful.
Don't worry, you don't need to check anything out for yourself- just take their word for it- they never lie.
How to act blue: Hire the most violent long gun open carry people you can find to burn, loot, and kill;
hire chynah trollfarms to lie about Republicans, and insult working America 100 times per minute on social media;
ignore the terror Texas towns and ranchers are living, while being OUTRAGED if a cop shoots back at a criminal;
then lean back with your Birkenstocks up, have a toke, smile innocently, and say, "Let's be kind to one another."
I do work in persuasion every single day. I teach white people to recognize racism. In Michigan.
To me the first task is to create affinity. I do that through talking about the surprising facts about myself. Things that break the stereotypes about Lefties... like I have a concealed pistol license and voted for John McCain when I lived in Arizona.
The second is to see and hear other people. This is a technique. Mirror body language, make eye contact, match energy, and use their words back at them. If they call me a libtard, I call myself that, too. It removes the power behind it and makes it a joke. That creates affinity.
Then listen. Listen well. Listen to how people describe the problem. No judgment. Just listen. Accept their experience as legit and real. We say that when people of color describe their experiences of racism or when women describe harassment. Believe people's experiences. Don't counter with an argument or facts. That's not what they are talking about. They are talking about feelings. Those are real. That's what Trump did and what we never understood.
I worked on Hillary's campaign in rural Michigan. Paid staff, not a volunteer. I had to do this then and I do it every day. It is effective.
Nice! Greetings (and thank you) from Kzoo!
Excellent comment, thank you. One might also consider passing this video along.
@@mossydog2385 yep. I just emailed my team a link. We need to make Booster videos. Lol.
Have you tried showing them your teeth so they will know you're not a lizard? I have people in my group who have had their heads checked for horns. Thank you for trying to teach racism to people who rely on other people not even being human.
@@intercat4907 not yet. But I did have people pull me aside and offer to walk me to my car. They feared for my life. And, honestly, I questioned whether I wanted to continue this work. But then I thought about some of the people I know who can't just decide to not be who they are. I realized that even considering whether to continue doing this work was a privilege. I decided to walk the talk. I'm 54 with $200k in student loans. Fuck it.
Sometimes when dealing with political conspiracy theorists, I ask them how they survived Jade Helm.
Street epistemology can help too. In his early youtube videos, Anthony Magnabosco asks people how sure they are of their beliefs, and asks them to rate how sure, and how, and why they determined this, etc. It's possible to ask people about their beliefs without confronting them directly. Even though it is often used to ask people about religion, it can be used to get people to reason about any belief.
I do this all the time! "Shouldn't you be in a FEMA camp right now? #jadehelm"
We all need lots of this. She's great.
I must admit I have lacked patience and empathy with my family at times..... mostly out of shock....
Shock and awe. Because when I hear some of the things they say, I'm just flabbergasted that people I know and love, and even people I don't know (and don't really know how intelligent they are-or are not), say and believe the things they do. Because NONE is backed up with ANY PROOF. They believe SO HARD in this stuff with ZERO evidence. But expect proof that these lies and the propaganda, are not true? I'm just in wonder of HOW I'm supposed to prove something DIDN'T happen?
@@randibgood YES! EXACTLY! I Totally relate. I've found it easier to 'write them off' and just move on. Life is too short to deal with all this 'Q-razy' nonsense.
@@tthom2459 Well, I am not happy about losing my patience. It's not good for the family, country or society, in the long run.
to each his own. Life is short. I choose not to waste mine dealing with them.
@@belkyhernandez8281 this is an incredibly thoughtful thing to say. Set some boundaries and continue loving your family. You get one set of blood relatives.
Fascinating interview. I'll use this advice in dealing with multiple people in my life. I've saved this to my library so that I can return for a pep talk.
My best conversation with people who believe the child pedofile ring is this: "You have evidence this is happening? Why haven't you gone to the authorities?"
I've actually talked about that before and what I heard back was "you don't know who you're messing with they could off you(I'm scared for my own life, forget the children!)"
@divine light
Lol, they’re so full of it
As she said, there's always a seed of truth to most conspiracy theories. There is massive human trafficking happening which includes children. But Ellen Degeneres, for one example, is not drinking the blood of children. Neither are Democrats, as another example. (Or Oprah)!
Evidence & truth don’t matter to them.
We all saw what happened to Epstein’s clients … absolutely nothing. So why wouldn’t people believe there is a powerful evil group of men out there? I mean, there obviously is. Just enough truth gets mixed in.
Love this episode! So insightful and renews a bit of optimism!
Very interesting. Watching this during my severe insomnia over here in San Francisco. Maybe there is hope here.
Intractable insomnia makes LOT'S of us spend time online. We should start a club. I do suspect though, that isolation during covid, lot's of people losing their jobs or having them threatened during covid....and not being able to sleep....has led more than one of us down some weird rabbit hole we otherwise would never have considered.
You understand that looking at your device is counterproductive when troubled by insomnia.
Some people ARE irredeemable. I avoid them and certainly wouldn’t have Thanksgiving dinner with them!
Really an outstanding show on this one. ...This is just about the best out there, and a nuanced explanation on some frameworks to address misinfo, disinfo, & conspiracy issues. Bravo! ...Now, have to follow Beth Goldberg and the Jigsaw team for sure.
Okay. Google's parent company, Alphabet, owns RUclips. Let's start a movement to get Beth GoldBerg appointed arbiter over RUclips's algorithm. Imagine that!
BIG point that can help. If you’ve ever changed your mind about a conspiracy theory, especially if your new view aligns with the family member (but not essential), you can relate how and why you got sucked in and how you got out
Very good point.
I know from my own experience of “waking up” from cult indoctrination that there are usually several little things that you notice overtime that “don’t really make sense” though you can overlook them individually in the moment. Then, something happens that is a little more personal (maybe a significant life change, a betrayal, or, an injustice) and you start to remember all those little things that you were avoiding.
You might dwell on this for a while before you can’t resist looking for something to prove yourself wrong or, terrifyingly, prove your doubts to be right.
You might be justifiably afraid, because usually there are often serious consequences to admitting doubt in the beliefs of whatever high control group you are part of. You might be shunned and ostracized by your friends and family in the (usually insular) group. You may lose your job or home because of it.
Another thing you can try is, ask the conspiracy theorist what evidence they have to back up their claim. And then actually look at it with an open mind to see if maybe you're wrong to assume they're crazy. Though, of course, if they can produce nothing but insisting an insults, there ya go.
I highly recommend watching Philosophy Tube’s video about Transhumanism and it’s connection to a lot of right wing conspiracies. She does a great job of breaking down how conspiracy theories are essentially people trying to express/justify and emotion or opinion with facts, and that’s why it’s so hard to break free or be convinced with logic. They’re clinging to something that makes them feel less anxious and afraid of the world.
Thanks. I will check ths out.
Just watched it - thanks! I'm a new subscriber!
What we are witnessing play out on the world stage is more than just a war between nationalism and globalism. It is more than just a war between the new scientific/military elite and the old financial elite. What we are really witnessing is a spiritual war.
On one side of this spiritual war is the cabal, a centralized ancient Babylonian Satanic Beast system of enslavement through debt, deceit, rape, torture, sacrifice, blackmail, and mind control.
On the other side is a decentralized Alliance of spiritually awakened individuals. There is no one central religious
"express/justify and emotion or opinion with facts"? But the subject of this video is conspiracy theories. In no way rooted in facts. I agree they are trying to express/justify how/why they feel the way they do, but none of the justification is fact based. If they were in any way concerned about facts, they wouldn't need to "break free" and their own "logic" would have already had them convinced
@@guacamolekid3899 Whoa! Seems like you are deep in the conspiratorial quagmire.
Best solution for one's idiot uncle is buy them a fishing pole and tell them to get outside more.
And some beer 🍻
"You've reached the last page of the internet, now go outside and play"....
Really interesting Pod..thank to you Jon, and Beth...I subscribed for Jigsaw newsletter💚
Thank You! I love how you approach conspiracy theorists with compassion and a genuine desire to understand. I've gotten to the point where I've kind of "written off" certain friends. You've convinced me to not give up on those relationships and to approach them very differently.
I like the comparison to addiction, especially for the "true believers." I have been working on my own recovery from the family denial of the disease of alcoholism for decades, and, because one's identity and loved ones are caught up in the system, it is a long, long process that is easy to slip back into since most of the "rescuing" behaviors are highly approved by society in general, since dealing with progressive addiction often requires actions that seem the opposite of compassion (e.g. don't bail the person out; don't keep them from losing their job, etc.) One can be loving without supporting someone in their own self-destructive behavior, though they may never actually change or appreciate you for doing it. It is VERY, VERY important for one's own sanity open-heartedness and self-care, however.
That was a fantastic post. Thanks.
It's fear of the unknown... The rush of having something you feel is secret... And that "secret knowledge" makes you feel special... Which makes you feel like you've regained some control... And then when you're "understanding" gets validated by these internet communities... the echo chamber of these feeling of shared secret understandings starts a self perpetuating feed back loop that reinforces the sense of community and solidarity... And it feeds on these feelings of community and Belonging... it's us versus them... they are the "other" and doubting, questioning, or challenging the groups think beings back the discomfort and feelings of self doubt... Because these communities make these beliefs and conspiracies part of the groups identify so its members see those beliefs are part of themselves and their identity... And anyone that pushes back isn't just questioning their beliefs, ideas or feelings... but they see and feel it as a direct attack on themselves... Who they are... and human beings have an unbelievable aversion to feeling uncomfortable... or feelings unsure... especially about themselves...
Great summary
It's not 'secret' any more if you learn the truth. None of these people have a stinkin' clue as to what Q is or isn't. What do you think that we think it is?
@@gogudelagaze1585 Maybe people are just too lazy to check anything out- like all of the people here making judgments about q who know absolutely nothing about it.
@@guacamolekid3899 I know enough about it to know it's bullshit. Therefore, I know enough about it to judge it.
@@randibgood You don't know s about it then.
Beth has such a positive way to describe everything and such a compassionate attitude. She's not mocking anybody. Very cool.
This is incredibly similar to what I was told when training to be a women's shelter volunteer: you never want to put the person into the position of defending their abuser. It is all validation, validation, validation. like "Wow, that sounds really scary." We would also do an intake interview to ask questions (I think there were 80 of them) along the lines of, "Have you ever had your partner stop you from going somewhere?" or "Has your partner ever stopped you from talking to people?" etc. So if we treat MAGA as we treat domestic abusers, we might have a chance of helping people get out of the cult.
Excllent advice.
This was so very interesting. All her research is so relevant and useful too.
The best way to deal with friends and family with opposing views, is to write down the two opposite views, Then agree to NOT DEBATE them. Next make a list of things that you each agree on related to the subject. Then agree to only discuss common ground and compromise. Whenever a subject drifts back to useless debate, start back at the first step
This information actually gave me hope. Beth, you are AWESOME! THANK YOU
Just... Fantastic listen.
Great and important conversation. Pre bunking seems like a great approach. I think it’s important to acknowledge that some of these folks are drawn in by isolation and some sort of grievance, but I wonder about those who really have had no reason to feel aggrieved. One of my family members is one of those and it’s been so difficult to get him to see any other point of view outside of the right wing bubble.
You guys really need to talk to the Q anonanonymous podcast about this stuff. They have been at the forefront of this issue for a long time now. I think you guys would have great chemistry and would make for a fantastic interview. I’d really like to see you do more episodes about the Q anon issue. It doesn’t get talked about in detail enough and kind of gets dismissed as “the crazies” but the number of q anon candidates is silently exploding. We need to break out the floodlights and make this a nation wide conversation.
To engage with these QAnon people would require the person to have the 'patience of Job' - I have not been blessed with this kind of patience.
But you don't really know anything about it- do you?
@@guacamolekid3899 ???
@@patcomerford5596 I'm just saying that there's a LOT more to it than most people realize. The country is in the process of extricating ourselves from the corporation that has controlled us for over a hundred years. A large part of the Q plan (which is world-wide), is getting rid of US inc. I'm sure you realize that DC is not a state, it's a privately owned and run district- owned by the US inc. The IRS, The FED, and other main agencies are actually privately owned corporations under this 'umbrella' of companies, etc.
Right now we are in a situation where there are two competing 'shadow governments'. The military at the very top of the food chain takes an oath to defend the country to the CONSTITUTION- NOT to the president or congress. While the left were pre-occupied with impeaching Trump, Trump and his team were making some 'moves' of their own, which was to take certain 'chess pieces' quietly off the table, and carry out certain military operations, etc. There were several executive orders and key events that played out over this time.
The corporation, US inc. is owned by the Rothschilds and other rich bankers and royal families. The City of London and the Vatican are the other two legs of the stool- DC is military- London- banking and the Vatican- religious (which is not Christianity). Q said that 'gold would destroy the FED'- the FED is one of the main sources of funding for the 'cabal'- they can literally print money out of thin air and charge interest for it. Remember Trump's world tour in 2018? What countries loved him and gave him high honors? the BRICS countries- who have over 2.3 of the world's population and are going to the gold standard which WILL destroy the FED. What countries and entities hate Trump? The globalists- the same ones who are part of US inc., etc.
Our of everything - BRICS is one of the most compelling arguments for the reality of an overall strategy to defeat the globalists.
@@guacamolekid3899 Like I said I do not have the patience of Job. Sorry, I got as far "extricating ourselves" and stopped reading.
@@guacamolekid3899 As I honestly said, I do not have the patience with QAnon types and for that you say I am a "jerk". Again I stopped reading your comment at "jerk". It looks like I am not the only one who has not been blessed with patience. Since you have been disrespectful to me, it is a reason why I have no patience for people who behave in this manner. I will leave you with people who can also deal with your propensity for disrespect as you engage with them.
Stteet Epistemology (SE)
Peter Bogossian wrote THE book for it. (A Manual for Creating Atheists)
Anthony Magnabosco used to create the Street Epistemology platforms for RUclips, Facebook and the rest of social media.
SE is a mixture of Motivational Interviewing, The Socratic Method, confidence scales, modeling doxastic open attitudes and creating a mechanism for self interrogation of strong world view beliefs
The most depressing thing about this discussion was that RUclips forced Jigsaw to pay to show these videos on how to identify misinformation on RUclips’s own platform.
Conspiracy-minded people are engaged users. Getting people out of conspiracies reduces engagement. It'd be like tobacco companies voluntarily providing health warnings.
@@AnexoRialto Good point.
Fascinating discussion. Big institution are problematic too. Abigail on philosophy tube just did a good essay piece on this.
You also can't expect everyone to be hyper aware of governance and agency.
Also a lot of things like say making an emergency vaccine in 18 months are not possible without institutions of scale
This is a crazy knot
Beth, is so much better than I am. Thank You
One thing I learned is that the GOP really dislikes schools teaching critical thinking. Makes you wonder ...
the grandpa in the stock video of Thanksgiving dinner in the beginning looks like bargain bin Junior Soprano lmfao
It looks like an important question to ask would be «Do feelings care about facts?; can they?».
Prebunking. About damn time. Now we just need to teach this to kids and adults.
For years, tolerance in the US meant "don't talk about politics or religion". So people never had their misinformed ideas challenged. Now that the cork is popped, and we're actually trying to hash things out, those conversations risk making people feel vulnerable and stupid. So we need to treat them the way we wanted to be treated the times that we were wicked wrong about something.
For anyone interested in how to recognize the language and how to think about responses I highly recommend a series by Innuendo Studios called The Alt Right Playbook which delves deep into why a conservative mindset might lead to some of these views and why certain arguments are worded the way they are. It is very enlightening.
It also challenges the mindset of moderate liberals who allow fascist rhetoric to perpetuate, and can be quite useful in recognizing some of your own preconceptions.
John. Mate. At about 8.30 you asked about "addiction". Answer spoke around "Community".
2 Points:
1. Imagine the massive psycological/emotional blast Inventors and Academic researchers get when they "find the real answer". That's going on here. These folks actually feel like they have found "the real answer...".
2. I have friends who are in the A.A. Community (maybe should include me) who simply cannot do without the "community". They are addicted again but this time to something wholesome, kind and positive.
Keep it up mate. Intelligent discussion always wins.
When you have a country full of people that believe there is a god and that the bible is a factual book, I find it surprising that people are surprised that people also have the ability to believe in Q
I saw someone post the best short explanation. "Secret knowledge" tempts an ignorant person the same way that a risky hookup tempts a lonely person.
An interesting tie-in to a discussion on why some normal people tend to fascism - the effects of loss of identity from cultural and economic change, as with the rise of the internet and mass export of jobs, and the loss of community as people with different beliefs stop meeting socially and lose the sense of neighbourliness. Fear in time of uncertainty adds to the tendency to seek in-group reassurance, to a desire to blame something beyond your group for problems, and to a desire for a leader who will give hope. That discussion ended with the conclusion that the best long-term approach is to be active, welcoming, and kindly in your local physical community.
Wow, this was a really great topic and very thoughtful of how to “Uncle Out” Thank you!
He @PSA, can you link such videos you show in your comments?
That Thanksgiving table awkwardness has been happening for much longer than 2016. It's just been more visual, since social media is so VERY much a part of all aspects of our lives, any more.
As for them all being redeemable? I have to disagree. Some are just too far gone to even approach, much less attempt to redeem. I've seen it happen. They don't listen when they don't come out of their bunker more than once or twice a year.
I really enjoyed that that was very good and insightful
Did she do her end of the interview in the stairway? 🤔
I'd like to state that, at least in SOME situations, political ideas can be altered. For example, when Kari Lake was screaming weeks ahead of the election that she was going to be robbed, that the election would be stolen from her, just exactly like Mango Mussolini did, I was stating things in textbanking responses like "if she loses, I hope she doesn't cause problems!" Or, "I hope Lake accepts the election results and doesn't try something fishy." Just that. No arguments with them.
No fact listing, nothing hostile. Just the little doubt seed planted. Maybe add how she was already wasting AZ taxpayer money by suing the state, the SoS, Maricopa County, and whoever else she could. Then ask what she was going to do if she lost. And then you leave.
Well, Lake lost. And now she's causing trouble again. I'm hoping they remember that little message, and state thinking.
Of course there’s more of it because of the amplification more people are able to influence others and ya people love thinking they’ve found out about something no one knows empowering them to share their thoughts on their if they’re new found information that gives them a sense of being intelligent and a special person that knows secrets
Dunning-Kruger effect
There's actual evidence that Q is real. Most people have no clue what it is or isn't.
I’m not one of the people you are speaking about. I’m the only one of my friends and family who is totally concerned about our democracy. The rest of my family is (my 2 daughters hate my guts because I don’t let trump live in my head rent free. Since I watched 20 minutes of the apprentice, I had trump’s number. I was mortified when he was elected. I wasn’t wrong. I was 15 months in quarantine because my kids didn’t want me exposed. I don’t even have to say how traumatized I was. I can barely get my legs back under me since 2016. I live in fear and I’m broken down, broken hearted. Here is an example. Yesterday, I said to my daughter that I feel like I’m suffering PTSD from said conversation and from management where I live. That’s a long story too. She scoffed, told me it’s BS. You can change to a positive outlook but you choose not to. My reply was is that what you would tell someone coming home from Afghanistan saving your life? That PTSD Is BS, get over it? Ended up in a huge argument.
Most people don't even know the very basics of what is really going on in the world. It's all based on emotion without any fact, history, context, or details. They spent a lot of money trying to make people hate Trump, and now there are so many who are so focused on Trump that they can't think of anything else. Truth be told, Trump is on the right side of history. You, and the dems and rinos are on the side of the globalists who want a one world government- social credit system- that's call slavery at best- you need to grow up and wake up. Get over you hate of Trump and try and learn something real-
Great job directing Iron Man, Jon.
Helpful tip.......when ever you see the term 'Qanon' in the headline, you know they have zero knowledge on the subject.
Two examples here is that Beth claims specific dates were prophecised....this is not true.
Beth also tries to connect 'Qanon' to violent acts.......but that doesn't add up considering Q stressed no violence many times, and the community supports this 100%.
Amen!
when talking on touchy subjects...its ALLLL in the tone & delivery.
Tone & delivery my friends:)
" the hidden persuaders" by Vance Packard
Find a bit troublesome how people often use the word "conspiracy" alone as a synonym for "conspiracy theory," which in turn in practical terms ends up meaning implicitly always "paranoid baseless theories of mind-boggling crazy conspiracies." Ideally there would be shorter but less euphemistic expression for the latter, without the sort of implicit conflation of any sort of inferred/speculative secretive thing maybe going on as comparably wildly nonsensical. Which sometimes defenders of the wildly speculative kind will even use, trying to somehow put all under the same umbrella of sensible suspicion of undue things going on hidden from the public.
Even phrasings like "40% people believe a cabal of people really control things" ends up conflating ideas around secret evil sects, aliens, frog-people, and things more along the lines of democracy really being far from protected from lobbyists acting for the interests of rich/powerful people, just to get richer and/or more powerful, no aliens, druids, cyborgs, vampires, or bird-people involved.
Omigosh, from the thumbnail I thought that was a guy wearing some kind of 17th century french court chapeau. That's some do.
She's cool. #BethGoldberg
Exactly. For example" they're coming to take your guns" . Bc how could anyone even DO that when w eave two guns per person in Amercia... can't sne dthe troops they d refuse and maybe switch sides especially the national guards for the agrarian states.... I mean it rificulous..ridiculous.... we couldn't even make a start with whatve rmilitary we have here. Just crazy.
I think that during other pandemics, wars, and social unrest periods conspiracies have increased. Perhaps we’re more aware if it today because of the net.
Because they already believe in theist chimera, do religious people have a significant predisposition in favor of conspiracy theories?
Do you think that some so-called conspiracy theories might be real?
We should have always been teaching how to recognize propaganda, how to recognize mind control and undue influence.
Had we been inoculated by this knowledge, which you can't unsee, we wouldn't have had so many people fall prey to lies.
Sidebar: Her hair is super cool 😎
Just believe whatever the tv tells you. Not hard.
Is not Zen atheist and yet ... And yet, we need a different word. I grew up atheist agnostic but with a spiritual orientation, ahimsa, tolerance, empathy, suspending judgement, qualities which religious people seem too often lacking in.
The key is to tell them the real conspiracy behind the conspiracy - there are people that profit off of you believing their lie.
How do you "have people" leave behind their obsessions and work with rescue dogs?
Wondering how do you get someone ELSE to repurpose their energies?
Ok, I lost respect for her when she said there was no conspiracy to kill JFK.
Mainly, we need to bring back some kind of fairness doctrine to tv, radio, and we should clearly nationalize facebook, youtube and whatever that lunatic is calling twitter now, omg, what a world.
I’m from the UK, but if you are left wing, or anti racist- why have a thanksgiving dinner at all? Just to persuade?
How do you prebunk followers of FOX Entertainment? They are so manipulative with their words, photos and suggestions. Hunter Biden's laptop leads there no matter what is really happening.
Even CBS is admitting that the laptop is real. There were several reporters who saw the full contents early on and they all said that it was shocking how much crime was on it- ranging from blatant treason to crimes against children.
Wanted to see more of this prebunking, but, membership wall.
Intriguing, i always knew there was more to life and i have also been looking for a way to find not only protection but a way to be influential to the human society
@Mark Reeves hi, isnt the brotherhood a myth?
@Mark Reeves oh really, i just saw his website, interesting.i will leave him a message.
Just read anything by Dr. Steven Hassan and you'll be able to identify undue influence and mind control.
You can't unsee it.
He has some videos on RUclips, and his books are on audio, too, if you're an auditory learner and not a visual learner.
I just want to thank the person on the left for letting me know, right away, that I can discount anything and everything coming out of her mouth right now. You will be resisted, Beth.
Well, sadly, I am entrenched in the position that I just refuse to listen to one more conspiracy theory. I just walk away or leave. I'm nobody's psychiatrist and don't feel like dealing with somebody's mental problems. Cult-like behavior is a non-solveable problem. I'd rather take on something constructive.
Totally irrelevant but she reminds me of Jennifer Gray (Grey?) in the Dirty Dancing era. Just to help those who might be distracted wondering who she reminds us of.
Isn't the main problem in the US the prevalence of commercial misinformation campaigns? Like Bloombergs anti-vaping contractors seeding lots of precursor rhetoric for the anti-vaxxers.
I wouldn't that poison crap for a trillion dollars.
Not all of them are struggling. The ones I know have inherited $ or have had pretty upper middle class lives. Where does narcissism come in? Direct quote from a Q person: "The only way for me to have been given this... is by God himself." They push the idea that they have a direct line to God or know more than experts with decades of specialized training and experience. Where does this insane sense of entitlement come from? What do you say to a Q member telling you that George HW Bush (senior) and his wife, Barbara, were both executed at Gitmo? Despite the fact that Bush, Sr. was already frail and in a wheelchair, they believe Q soldiers transported him to Gitmo to exact punishment (hanged him). Imagine feeling joy about an old, frail man being hanged. And that doesn't even get into all the other crazy beliefs or the fact that they are sending their $ to these causes (and to trump) for the past decade. It is extremely disturbing.
This alienation thing doesn’t gel for me. The people I know who believe in them are socially adjusted. Passionate or fanatical political belief hits home. Friends of mine who believe in their team so strongly that they are prepared to believe any evil thing of the other team and that their team is ridiculously innocent are the ones who talk about and are prepared to believe in conspiracies. I think it would be interesting to know what the politics were of the people in the US who believed the JFK assassination was a conspiracy, specifically if they were on one side of the political divide.
Et tu, Brute
„Conspiracy“ is not short for „Conspiracy theory“; the two are not synonyms, they are pretty much antonyms. Conspiracies are a thing, they are real (if they are). CTs are wild, and often deliberately conceived speculations on Conspiracies that are completely fictional. Confusing and conflating the two terms makes for muddy language. In at least one case in this poscast you eve used CT when talking about a Conspiracy.
I am not delusional about this, that ship has sailed, everybody mixes up the two terms. But language and the world are the worse for it.
How does this explain the well connected, highly “educated” Republican leaders who spew conspiracies?
Hey, so I have a question. What abou l the conspiracy theories that are true? Shkjld we just stop questioning shit? Because i think we're all way better off with the vigilant 'conspiracy theorists' have been.
Jigsaw hasn't posted in 8 months, and before that 4 years, so I look forward to seeing what they come out with next!
Q is real- these people have no clue.
Multi billion dollar technology company has that horribly awful room for video conferences?
"they are just looking for community."
Thats all the explanation you need, now take back the identity of what it means to be American and invite them back
Why do all these people fit stereotypes so well
My Dad in the last years of his life must of spent 6 or 7 hours a day watching Fox News. There's no way he could ever disengage or critically examine any of his beliefs. Conspiracies are entertainment for lots of people.
Salem Witch Trails?
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To ignite the flame of understanding, compassion and empathy...
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Most leftists, and even many conservatives don't even know the basics of what the history, or details of what the country is facing right now are. All these fancy words and notions mean nothing without something solid to attach them to.
Right now the country is in the painful process of extricating ourselves from a CORPORATION that has controlled us through our banking system at first and then gradually through literally every branch of government, and industry.
We are going back to a Republic form of government.
@@guacamolekid3899 or fascism
Most conspiracy theories are nonsense. But 9/11 is positively the one that I'll never believe the official story. And also one I'm no longer comfortable to talk much about. I don't recommend on educating yourself about it.