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I love Gavin, but he is one of the most popular (and formidable) anti-Catholic RUclipsrs. He is constantly creating videos on Catholic “eccretions”. Does he think Catholics that believe all Catholic doctrine and die in a state of grace are saved? He avoids answering this. If so, he needs to stop with the anti-Catholic videos and follow his channel name and focus on truth that unites. All Christians need to focus on evangelizing non-believers, not tearing other denominations down.
@@billmartin3561 What is "die in a state of grace" and who knows if that's how someone dies in the first place? Scripture doesn't say anything about Christians needing to die in a state of grace. I've never heard Gavin say RC Christians aren't saved or can't be saved, and I've never heard him, certainly, toss out the entire group by association as not saved. Obviously, it's not our job to declare who we think is saved or not, all we can do is point out the dangers of various doctrines and even false gospels and idols. He is not "anti-Catholic", as you say. Don't mistake theological discussion and pointing out problems to be "anti", this is modernist victim-mind nonsense. Not having the same ideas and arguments and theology doesn't mean you are "anti" the other person. "I disagree with you" and "I'm against and anti-you" are very different things.
I’m protestant and Pints with Aquinas is my favorite catholic youtube channel. Love these ecumenical-ish conversations. The traditions need to talk, interact and debate more, with conviction, but in the spirit of love and respect. It will result in unity, if not in thought and conviction, at least in love and the Holy Spirit. Those who truly have the mindset of “nothing in my hands I bring, only to the cross I cling” have a unity in The Spirit. Let us let that unity manifest in love for those who share it and for unity in truth. With all humility, your brother in Christ
Do you think any of the apostles would go around and have lunch with those who they violently disagreed with on the faith? The differences between Protestants and Catholics amount to two different gospels altogether, and therefore, both cannot be true. As long as that's made perfectly clear at the outset, then go ahead and have your ecumenical talks. But remember, Boniface VIII said "it is altogether necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff" (in his "Unam Sanctam"), which means people like me who reject the papacy, and Mr. Ortland, are going to hell.
@@ThornyCrown-l5d Praise the God who saved me that Boniface and his erroneous thoughts have no bearing on the salvation Christ has so graciously granted me.
@@ThornyCrown-l5d What an unfortunate view. I'm sorry to say it breaks with historic Protestantism. Not sure what tradition you are part of but you are not in alignment with the fathers of your tradition. (Unless you are anabaptist, then maybe fair enough). Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, etc. none of these condemned the Roman Church to hell as you have. Either you have a overly specific view of the gospel or your misunderstand Catholic Beliefs (and I say this as a protestant myself).
Brothers, this was so touching and uplifting to see amicable protestant/Catholic discussions that transcend our differences and model what healthy, loving, and Christ-like conversation is like.
@@ora_et_labora1095 Catholics and Protestants have a different gospel, even the Vatican agrees it is not the same. As close as they are, the difference between the two is on a fundamental point: protestants say faith in Christ itself is the factor that justifies christians as righteous in God’s sight for entrance into heaven .. works are vital to follow a saving faith, but do not contribute to that saving faith. (as Paul says in Romans “we are justified by faith apart from works”) Catholics say faith is essential, but not sufficient.. that faith + good works are both necessary prerequisites to be considered justified in God’s eyes for entrance into heaven (they quote James who says “we are not justified by faith alone”) Protestants rebut the Catholics on James by saying the word “justified” is used with a reference to being a proof of validation, to ourselves and others, that our faith is authentic, not with reference to God’s declaration of a Christian being declared righteous for entrance into heaven. Catholics rebut Protestants on Paul in Romans by saying the word “works” is used with reference to Old Testament sacrificial rituals and rites, not with reference to actions of love and justice. This is pretty much where the lines are drawn between the two as I see it
100% agree he’s well read well prepared and good spirited in the discussion realm. Hes got the demeanor I wish all Protestants had when engaging discussions and debates on faith.
ST. POPE JOHN PAUL II: “When brothers and sisters who are not in perfect communion with one another come together to pray... their prayer is the soul of the whole ecumenical movement. If Christians, despite their divisions, can grow evermore united in common prayer around Christ, they will grow in the awareness of how little divides them in comparison to what unites them.” “It is absolutely clear that ecumenism, the movement promoting Christian unity, is not just some sort of “appendix” which is added to the Church’s traditional activity. Rather, ecumenism is an organic part of her life and work, and consequently must pervade all that she is and does.” Ut Unum Sint, May 25, 1995
Please don't stop the arguments for God, Christ, the reliability of the Bible and faith! Apologetics is the path that led me to faith and was absolutely needed, for me. It "proved" to me that belief in God is reasonable and probable and intelligent people can indeed believe without checking their brains at the door of the church. It cleared away the mental blocks and gave me intellectual permission to consider Christianity. For those who don't need this - celebrate that gift. But for the 10% or so of us who need apologetics, keep it up!
Except Lewis was basically an "anglo-catholic" and didn't run a public "ministry" where every second piece of content is a criticism or attempt to refute the Catholic Church.... 🤔😅🤷♂️
@@RedRoosterRoman Refuting Catholic abuse, heresy, and wicked behavior while holding firm that she is a church with the same ecumenical claim as any other denomination is a ministry. No need for parentheses.
I love the conversation! Gavin, I have been thriving on your channel for the last several weeks. You have been a blessing in my life. I hope to meet you someday.
You guys are my 2 favorite youtubers! Thanks for doing this. Was so encouraged to listen to this and to see such love and friendship between a Catholic and a Baptist. Praying for the unity of the church.
The office of Pope is the principle of unity in the Christian church. Disunity stems from a rejection of papal authority. Praying for unity in the church as well.
@@SevereFamineIf by "principle of unity" you are suggesting it is necessary for unity, I would disagree that this is necessary. Maybe prudential I could grant but not necessary. I point to the eastern church as an example of this. They have different patriarchs with no pope at top and they are in fellowship with one another. I pray there could be a way for us all to be back in fellowship yet retain our general traditions. I am fine with there being distinctions of convictions within the body but I wish we could recognize how we agree on the essentials and are all under the headship of Christ.
@@joshuareeves5103 When did the divisions happen in Christianity? It has only happened when there have been rebellions against authority. You cannot have true unity unless you are under the same authority. The Catholic Church has many traditions (23 rites) in union with each other so there’s a true diversity there that doesn’t mean accepting or turning a blind eye to heresy or serious error. God bless.
@@SevereFamine Hey brother. From my perspective, Catholicism has drawn the line in areas where it shouldn't have and hasn't where it should have. You may think Protestantism was all about getting away from authority, but I think this misses the mark. Protestants wanted to remain in the catholic church, just sought reform. Catholics decided certain doctrines were essential which I don't think ought to have been essential. For example, I know of Catholic Priests that teach that Homosexual acts are okay. It seems odd to me to not divide on this basis regarding morality and something actually discussed in Scripture, and yet to choose to divide on whether Mary was assumed to heaven or immaculately conceived seems like lines we shouldn't divide on. Anathema attached to icons and bodily assumption seems counter to what Paul and Peter would have attached anathemas to.
They struck a cord here numerous times that I have been feeling, that we are in a day and age where we dehumanize others. Whether it's politics, religion, or anything else, it really seems like anyone who is opposed to us is our enemy. They are not a fellow creation of God, but an object to receive our hatred. We, especially as Christians, need to learn how to treat others with respect and not as talking points.
You two personified what you were talking about, two people providing a safe space to be open and ask questions and be healthy. So glad it was that and not a debate. Keep up the good work!
The entire “Internet vs. Reality” segment, you can really tell Gavin has been camping out in Digital Liturgies. Such a good book. It’s beginning to change my life.
Thanks brothers - love both of your work and especially when you can have a long form dialogue like this! I really appreciated the discussions about putting intentional limits on technology and also just saying no to protect sabbath time/family time. One of my favorite pieces of advice was to this effect: “you are going to disappoint some people - just make sure it’s the right people”. As a husband and a father, it should be rare that I disappoint my wife or children
That is quite the accusation... I will deem this slander unless you come with proof. And since you do not see the man's heart, I see not how you can come with such evidence. @HallowMas-m3s
That was a Goliath of a drop of wisdom and I doubt he even knows how mighty that speck of truth really is. So helpful for myself to hear someone articulate truth like that.
@ Father Stephen De Young talks about a similar phenomenon on the Lord of Spirits Podcast. Couldn't point to an episode but check it out if you are interested!
Oh wow, wonderful conversation! Thank you very much!!! As a confessional Lutheran (the reclusive denomination) myself, I was so happy to hear Jordan Cooper being mentioned (yay, lol!). That thing about going back to what is old, a Saint once said: You go back to what is old, because it is true for it has passed the test of fire (time). I would add though, all fathers have to be tested by the words of the Lord himself. Reading Augustine is simply delicious, but even there one must still weigh the words of Augustine against the words of the Lord (I think brother Augustine would say the same thing, thinking of his ponderings on the relationship between Truth(Hearing the Lord speak) and Magisterial Authority in his contemplation why the words of Ambrose moved him so much to convert). Thank you for your guys efforts.
Gavin’s video on why Evangelicals need church history made me visit a confessional Lutheran church for the first time and I’ve been going these last Sundays. I’m in awe and in love! Lord willing I will be confirmed there soon.
Love the section on Detaching from the Internet, I've practiced the time barrier. I also love Gavin Ortland's idea of having a physical barrier of rooms he won't take his phone into. I'm definitely adding that. I'm with Matt I disabled the internet browser! (go into settings, safari settings, all only these websites, then deselect all...combine this with deleting all other internet apps and unhealthy apps, turn off the app store, lock down screentime and give password to trusted friend) It's been a game changer!
I am 75 and gone through lots of stages and experiences. I've faced anxiety, depression, various crosses. It all has had purpose in my life and made me who I am. Seeing God's hands on in all my life is my proof of God for me. I learned a principle I keep going back to and grow from is, all my responses to life can be reduced to fear and love, and fear is not real. When I seriously look at my fears they are generally future focused and a projectionn of a worst case scenario. I also automatically start to put up protective defences that wall me off and separate me. It is in a way what sin is /missing the target is about. Love is a decision is the otherway to observe and place experiences.the love path generally requires being conscious enough to fear that I can consciously over ride the automatic fear response and start looking for a proactive love response. That sounds complicated. Prayer is simpler, a kind or letting go and letting God. An example. I am noticing fear is affecting me and I need a better choice than fight, flight, freeze or fawn which generally leaves walls. Show me from your life how you would handle this and help me follow. Fear is generally connected to my crosses. This may seem over simplified but start looking at scriptures in this light it is not about becoming robotic but more conscious of Gods presence with me. My deepest experiences are being moments, not doing moments. In your case probably when in discussion and you connect and time disappeared but you know God was close in this experience.
I would say that Gavin @TruthUnites is great at evangelism insomuch as he wears his faith on his sleeve and he speaks openly about the Gospel. Seems pretty good to me ...
Matt, as an ex-atheist to Catholic, what you need to understand about the angst from certain segment of JP supporters (like me) is not that he isn't Catholic. The frustration comes from folks like me using JP's logic to come to the realisation that God exists, while he uses his logic to skirt around even contemplating the hypothetical that God exists. I recall JP's logic that tipped me over. JP once asked, somewhat rhetorically, while discussing archetypes, paraphrased poorly, "If an archetype is valid across these few dimensions, how true must that archetype be if it is valid along those and a whole multitude of other dimensions?" I applied that reasoning to Jesus. If Jesus is the archetype of the perfect man (Uber mensch as JP would say), and if emulating His life and approach to life's misery was true back then, is true now, for men and women, across cultures, appeals to people when applied to art and movies etc. and many other such dimensions. Then how true must Jesus and His preaching be? Well to my mind, it must be true literally. No other single person fits quite as well as an archetype of the perfect man, by a LONG shot. Not Muhammed, not Buddha, not Joseph Smith, not Charles Taze Russell, not a single patriarch or prophet of the Old Testament and not a single pagan deity. That JP cannot bring himself to accept that his own logic leads to the literal truth of Jesus is what frustrates folks that returned to Christ like me.
He's a classical liberal. Liberals are Nihilists. Jung is just repackaged Nihilism masquerading as spirituality and philosophy. He can't allow himself to see God because it would require submission. Spirit of the ages.
Jordan Peterson does appear to be a racist. It seems it is only racists who would say that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) isn't the 'perfect man'. Pretty sure his hero Nietzsche would agree. In the Antichrist, Nietzsche says, "If Islam despises Christianity, it has a thousandfold right to do so: Islam at least assumes that it is dealing with men." He may have thought more highly of Islam than Christianity insofar as Islam was more focused on this life rather than an afterlife. He also said in the next section of the Antichrist: Christianity destroyed for us the whole harvest of ancient civilization, and later it also destroyed for us the whole harvest of Mohammedan civilization. The wonderful culture of the Moors in Spain, which was fundamentally nearer to us and appealed more to our senses and tastes than that of Rome and Greece, was trampled down (-I do not say by what sort of feet-) Why? Because it had to thank noble and manly instincts for its origin-because it said yes to life, even to the rare and refined luxuriousness of Moorish life!... The crusaders later made war on something before which it would have been more fitting for them to have grovelled in the dust-a civilization beside which even that of our nineteenth century seems very poor and very “senile.”-What they wanted, of course, was booty: the orient was rich.... Let us put aside our prejudices! The crusades were a higher form of piracy, nothing more! The German nobility, which is fundamentally a Viking nobility, was in its element there: the church knew only too well how the German nobility was to be won.... The German noble, always the “Swiss guard” of the church, always in the service of every bad instinct of the church-but well paid.... Consider the fact that it is precisely the aid of German swords and German blood and valour that has enabled the church to carry through its war to the death upon everything noble on earth! At this point a host of painful questions suggest themselves. The German nobility stands outside the history of the higher civilization: the reason is obvious.... Christianity, alcohol-the two great means of corruption.... Intrinsically there should be no more choice between Islam and Christianity than there is between an Arab and a Jew. The decision is already reached; nobody remains at liberty to choose here. Either a man is a Chandala or he is not.... “War to the knife with Rome! Peace and friendship with Islam!”: this was the feeling, this was the act, of that great free spirit, that genius among German emperors, Frederick II. What! must a German first be a genius, a free spirit, before he can feel decently? I can’t make out how a German could ever feel Christian....
It's time now, perhaps, for JBP to - in addition to saying "It's really deep and complicated" as answers to the questions "Does God really exist" "Do you believe the resurrection really happened" "Are you a Christian" etc...to see that - although these are incredibly profound questions - Jesus himself says that the Kingdom is to be entered by becoming like a little child and unless we become like children we'll never make it. He knows enough now, he's had so many good conversations with amazing Christians, from this point on, unless he takes the gospel on faith in a humble and childlike manner and clearly steps over the line, his speech will get ever more convoluted and word-saladish and - with regard to Christianity - he'll actually have less and less to say. Does that sound harsh? I greatly love and respect him and he has so much to say about so many important issues. He's got more backbone and integrity than I'll ever have, probably, but as regards faith, I just get the feeling he's protecting himself somehow and not quite at the point of really losing his life in this world to gain it in the next.
@@zahidali-mt9ck I have a simple question for you friend. Do you believe that the term 'morally good' includes (but not limited to) the acts of Muhammed marrying a 6yr and consummating that marriage when she was playing with dolls at 9yr? Sunan an-Nasa'i 3378 It was narrated that 'Aishah said: "The Messenger of Allah married me when I was six, and consummated the marriage with me when I was nine, and I used to play with dolls." Grade: Sahih (Darussalam) Reference : Sunan an-Nasa'i 3378 In-book reference : Book 26, Hadith 183 English translation : Vol. 4, Book 26, Hadith 3380
See, we start to see the myth is attached to the matter at some point... however, the matter that plays host to the myth starts to receed in faith until the bread becomes Flesh... the Word becomes Flesh...
I was in church, I listened to only Christian music, I served at church since 1998, I could not sit, read and understand scripture until 2019. It was like a lightbulb finally went off and I have been driven to learn more and more since. It was syncing in with The Holy Spirit. So patience is definitely needed by the seed planter.
If Matt Fradd were a super hero I think he’d be Captain Obvious! 😂. A lot of what he says is aggressively non-controversial. And I think that’s part of the charm of this channel. Sometimes it’s nice to just hear folks talking about interesting yet mundane things without the rage-bating. 😊
Gonna be honest, I've always thought Gavin is a stronger apologist than James White. I don't understand why White is considered big leagues, and Ortland articulates a lot better, even if I disagree with his theology
@@NotablySped Have had very similar thoughts about these two. If I'm a Protestant wanting to send our A Team to some debate Gavin is on the list whereas James not so much
White has been doing this A LONG time, while Gavin is still relatively new on the scene. As such, I think White comes across as a little jaded and impatient with a lot of topics. I speculate this comes from 30 years of dealing with the same issues time and again.
@@scotthartsfield5786 I agree. He’s much better in the realm of Islam. He has loads of patience and charity in his interactions with Muslims and has done some great work dialoguing with them.
Gavin in this video mentions starting his channel four years ago. James White has been at it more like 40. I look forward to Gavin gaining more traction, growing, and being a greater influence. I'm thankful for both, though I've been finding myself more divergent from White over the last few years, even though we are both 1689ers, while Gavin isn't.
Oh my goodness Matt! I love the jubilee year idea! I’m a younger millennial (married but no kids yet) but I totally want to do that one day! I absolutely could never have confessed anything to my parents without punishment as a child, and I think it would have helped me to have that now and then. In college, I struggled a lot with scrupulosity and thinking that God is just waiting with his clipboard to catch me out.
I love these discussions. I feel like Protestants don't teach some things well, like the sanctity of marriage, the sacrements, and won't give Mary deserved honor and could learn from Catholics in these areas, whereas Catholics could relax a little and not make such definitive anathemas against non-salvific issues...if we could each listen and decide that we are in accords even if we disagree on lesser issues. We would look more unified to the world I think. Just some thoughts...feel free to tell me I'm wrong 😂
I really liked this video. I don't have a lot of channels I follow on RUclips but it has kind of boiled down to debates or arguments against one side or the other. This is a nice change because there wasn't an argument, just a good conversation between 2 friends about stuff I can relate too.
I rediscovered my faith with the birth of my children. I don’t fully understand it still but when I look at them I see Gods love. My love for them isn’t from evolution it’s something so much more profound and can only be part of something much greater than myself
31:45 When Matt talks about the “vibes” of atheism being pulling.. I find the “vibes” of theism to be so much more compelling. The existential experience of being moved to tears by listening to an orchestral piece that moves you is not explained by ANYTHING darwinian and nobody was socialized to be that way (the fact that music is even a possibility in a world of purposelessness, that it’s pleasurable to hear and has an entire field of study is too radical to be unremarkable).. the experience of guilt is also unexplainable from those avenues (guilt itself cannot be measured, but the effects of guilt are absolutely seen happening in our bodies).. these are very real, very existential, very visceral spiritual experiences that carry way more “vibes” than any atheist who says “why can’t you see god?” If we have to wait to believe in something because we can only see that something’s effect without seeing the something itself, science would have died a long time ago
40:40 I’ve thought about this too. I could be wrong, but I think the inability for people to “hang in there,” or sit with the tension of two conflicting perspectives that have a lot of good evidence ultimately comes down to a lack of resilience. A lot of people don’t seem to be very mentally tough, and would prefer to be told what to think. It’s uncomfortable then to decide for themselves what they should think. I say this as someone who’s had multiple big and uncomfortable shifts in my own thinking about free will/determinism, or different eschatological theories. It’s definitely uncomfortable when you reach the point where you’re about to trade a long held belief for another!
Love this talk. I will say this about JP. I went to a talk of his last year and I honestly didn't think I heard a single thing he hadn't said in his lectures before becoming famous. As C.S. Lewis once said it's through the reading of old books that mere Christianity reveals itself and one can be made aware of modern biases that lead to synthetic religions. Considering how much Peterson gives in to the atheist worldview and how little he seems to know of the great Christian theologians of the past, it seems difficult to conclude he isn't just offering one of those synthetic religions C.S. Lewis tried to warn us about
I really love and appreciate Gavin Ortland. What a true man of God. I hope one day God brings him home to the fullness of the faith so he may experience all of the graces of the sacraments… but even if that doesn’t come to pass, I know that the Holy Spirit will still use him in a powerful way to bring more souls into the Kingdom of God through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. May our Lord bless him and keep him.
Matt, as far as evangelism, your point about someone being attracted to something first is such a good point. As such, perhaps the best form of evangelism might be portraying such a humble beauty in our lives so that others want the same. Then a conversation might start from that
I think you, Matt, touched on something I thought about when my grown, atheist son asked me what I would do if it was proven that God didn’t exist. My knee-jerk reaction was to say there would be no way to prove that; but he persisted-but what if it was proven? I dug down and came up with: I still would believe because I CHOOSE GOD.
Is there some reason Catholics have stopped using the terms "rigorism" and "rigorist" for "conservative" heresies of the "far-right"? Such a helpful term that needs to be revived.
I don’t believe there’s ever been a time like this. Where in history was physical reality denied. A time when politicians and judges can’t define a woman because “they’re not biologist”. A time a significant amount of people are claiming things so divorced from reality that you’re just left stunned by the lunacy of it all. No, there’s absolutely no time like this in the history of the world.
It’s so ironic, and sad, to see the kind of finger-pointing that was critiqued at 47:00 being played out in the comments. Like come on guys! Let us be pleasing to the Lord by finding Christ in common!
In regards to the ChatGPT thing, to answer your question: yes. It’s very good at giving points and arguing different opinions and perspectives. Spent a good 30 minutes just debating with it and it is strong
'Leave it to Beaver.' 'Ozzie and Harriet'. 'Father Knows Best.' TV shows that I grew up with. I'm 70. And my goodness, this era is like NOTHING I've ever gone thru. My Dad, who was a WWII vet, would say the same, perhaps with greater intensity.
Myself too. God gave me a dream on this matter which I've been called to share in the past but not here today... However the meaning of the dream remains true: When persecution comes, we will not be among baptists or Catholics or seventh day or any other denomination, but among those who hold that Jesus is God above all. And they will be found in the midst of all of these.
Am 68 and I've never experienced a world like this. Even with the fear of Soviets attacking, not the chaos, confusion and trouble everywhere like now. 4:39
spot on on Jordan Peterson. I pray he will make a conversion. It is good he is engaging in conversations with believers. I think he is too smart and not able to let go of self thought and control. I still love listening, but pray for him.
Until he said it, I didn’t realize how similar to Gavin I was in sometimes over-intellectualizing the faith and being a poor evangelist as a consequence
The ACNA is in very active dialogue with Rome about limited communion and recognition of Holy Orders. This is a big step toward unity. May not be perfect but definitely good to see active dialogue with purpose.
These brotherly discussions are helping Catholics NOT worship the Bride ... and helping Protestants NOT worship a written Canon. Praise be to the one true, Triune God!
This was a really nice discussion to listen to. The part concerning decision fatigue felt very relatable, in my case I’ve felt it a lot with what church to attend. As someone from a “secular Lutheran” background, I have the last few years tried to learn more about other Christian denominations. For me it seems like a lot of denominations have very good arguments for their particular denomination, so at the end of the day I end up not attending any church service out of decision paralysis. (Although I definitely have narrowed it down to more high church traditions)
There was a section where you guys were talking (roughly estimated) 2:11:00 talking about how some sins are recognized and then others aren't. You know I kind of felt like this recently, for me it's kind of like I feel like in my head when somebody says I'm a Christian I find myself questioning what do you mean by that because sometimes it can feel like a person says they're one thing but then as soon as a person turns their back they're beast like backbiting if you get what I mean. I've only been a Christian just over two years, and I've been going to one Church (Protestant) for about 6 months before that I had gone to different churches Catholic being one of them, it interests me to see the dynamic of how some places show Christ outwardly but then other buildings look like high school. Now this is a personal experience of mine, so each person's experience will be different but I feel like Christ said judge not or you will be judged evenly or according to the measure that you judge and I've actually seen it multiple times as a sign. What is your take on this? Because like I say I'm going to Protestant church right now but sometimes I find myself leaning more Catholic the only thing keeping me from that is the fact that it's really overwhelming the amount of stuff you have to do to become like part of it.
I am a product of Protestant de-construction and it ended up bringing me to the Catholic Church. So Praise the Lord! I’m sure evangelicals freak out when people leave their rock concert events, but it’s not always a bad thing believe me.
@1:06:55 We need to immerse ourselves in the Word of God, which is the truth, The Holy Spirit uses His word to guide us. Sometimes we camp too much on philosophy, on denomination battles, on influencers or faith speakers and we neglect the study of the Bible and Prayer which strengthens us and give us peace knowing the Good Shepherd won't let us go astray.
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I love Gavin, but he is one of the most popular (and formidable) anti-Catholic RUclipsrs. He is constantly creating videos on Catholic “eccretions”. Does he think Catholics that believe all Catholic doctrine and die in a state of grace are saved? He avoids answering this. If so, he needs to stop with the anti-Catholic videos and follow his channel name and focus on truth that unites. All Christians need to focus on evangelizing non-believers, not tearing other denominations down.
@@billmartin3561 What is "die in a state of grace" and who knows if that's how someone dies in the first place? Scripture doesn't say anything about Christians needing to die in a state of grace.
I've never heard Gavin say RC Christians aren't saved or can't be saved, and I've never heard him, certainly, toss out the entire group by association as not saved.
Obviously, it's not our job to declare who we think is saved or not, all we can do is point out the dangers of various doctrines and even false gospels and idols. He is not "anti-Catholic", as you say. Don't mistake theological discussion and pointing out problems to be "anti", this is modernist victim-mind nonsense. Not having the same ideas and arguments and theology doesn't mean you are "anti" the other person. "I disagree with you" and "I'm against and anti-you" are very different things.
I’m protestant and Pints with Aquinas is my favorite catholic youtube channel. Love these ecumenical-ish conversations. The traditions need to talk, interact and debate more, with conviction, but in the spirit of love and respect.
It will result in unity, if not in thought and conviction, at least in love and the Holy Spirit. Those who truly have the mindset of “nothing in my hands I bring, only to the cross I cling” have a unity in The Spirit. Let us let that unity manifest in love for those who share it and for unity in truth.
With all humility, your brother in Christ
Same here and I fully agree with this comment
AMEN
Do you think any of the apostles would go around and have lunch with those who they violently disagreed with on the faith?
The differences between Protestants and Catholics amount to two different gospels altogether, and therefore, both cannot be true. As long as that's made perfectly clear at the outset, then go ahead and have your ecumenical talks.
But remember, Boniface VIII said "it is altogether necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff" (in his "Unam Sanctam"), which means people like me who reject the papacy, and Mr. Ortland, are going to hell.
@@ThornyCrown-l5d Praise the God who saved me that Boniface and his erroneous thoughts have no bearing on the salvation Christ has so graciously granted me.
@@ThornyCrown-l5d What an unfortunate view. I'm sorry to say it breaks with historic Protestantism. Not sure what tradition you are part of but you are not in alignment with the fathers of your tradition. (Unless you are anabaptist, then maybe fair enough). Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, etc. none of these condemned the Roman Church to hell as you have. Either you have a overly specific view of the gospel or your misunderstand Catholic Beliefs (and I say this as a protestant myself).
Brothers, this was so touching and uplifting to see amicable protestant/Catholic discussions that transcend our differences and model what healthy, loving, and Christ-like conversation is like.
I'm a simple man. I see Gavin, I click
Facts
Amen brother. Gavin is a gem
So real
Same...
I see Gavin and Matt I click twice
Arguments are about removing “stumbling blocks” to belief. They usually don’t move someone; rather, they clear the path for future movement.
Ah great nugget there!! Hope Gavin happens upon this to add to his considerations on this matter of argumentation. He has helped me greatly!!
I've always had the mentality that I'm not going to change the mind of the person I'm engaging, it's the people watching I'm aiming for.
This is the kind of Christianity that will change the world. The city is so much stronger when we’re united.
Can't be "united" if we hold fundamentally different beliefs.
@@zsedcftglkjh Which fundamental different beliefs?
@@ora_et_labora1095 Catholics and Protestants have a different gospel, even the Vatican agrees it is not the same. As close as they are, the difference between the two is on a fundamental point: protestants say faith in Christ itself is the factor that justifies christians as righteous in God’s sight for entrance into heaven .. works are vital to follow a saving faith, but do not contribute to that saving faith. (as Paul says in Romans “we are justified by faith apart from works”)
Catholics say faith is essential, but not sufficient.. that faith + good works are both necessary prerequisites to be considered justified in God’s eyes for entrance into heaven (they quote James who says “we are not justified by faith alone”)
Protestants rebut the Catholics on James by saying the word “justified” is used with a reference to being a proof of validation, to ourselves and others, that our faith is authentic, not with reference to God’s declaration of a Christian being declared righteous for entrance into heaven.
Catholics rebut Protestants on Paul in Romans by saying the word “works” is used with reference to Old Testament sacrificial rituals and rites, not with reference to actions of love and justice.
This is pretty much where the lines are drawn between the two as I see it
Gavin Ortlund is such a cool guy. That debate between him and Trent Horn really helped me to see both sides of the Sola Scriptura debate fairly.
As always, love this conversation. I'm really liking Gavin the more I listen to him. Good hearted dude.
100% agree he’s well read well prepared and good spirited in the discussion realm. Hes got the demeanor I wish all Protestants had when engaging discussions and debates on faith.
I am becoming Catholic tomorrow. I just wanted to share that.
Welcome home
Welcome home! All saint day, very nice. ✝️
@@snugswashere6504 God bless you!
Welcome home love!
Keep sharing that beautiful news!
ST. POPE JOHN PAUL II: “When brothers and sisters who are not in perfect communion with one another come together to pray... their prayer is the soul of the whole ecumenical movement. If Christians, despite their divisions, can grow evermore united in common prayer around Christ, they will grow in the awareness of how little divides them in comparison to what unites them.”
“It is absolutely clear that ecumenism, the movement promoting Christian unity, is not just some sort of “appendix” which is added to the Church’s traditional activity. Rather, ecumenism is an organic part of her life and work, and consequently must pervade all that she is and does.” Ut Unum Sint, May 25, 1995
@@BobbyBobBob-d5l
Love this! Thank you.
Beautiful
Such an uplifting conversation. Thank you both for taking the time to do that! Truly was a blessing to listen to.
Please don't stop the arguments for God, Christ, the reliability of the Bible and faith! Apologetics is the path that led me to faith and was absolutely needed, for me. It "proved" to me that belief in God is reasonable and probable and intelligent people can indeed believe without checking their brains at the door of the church. It cleared away the mental blocks and gave me intellectual permission to consider Christianity. For those who don't need this - celebrate that gift. But for the 10% or so of us who need apologetics, keep it up!
1:58:20 "when we find our identity more in what we are against than what we are for" "when our identity is negative". Such good points!
I've been changing this in my own head. Acknowledging I'm first a Christian, saved by grace, who loves God with all my heart, mind, and soul.
These 2 together kinda give me Tolkien, Lewis vibes but for our generation. Love to see it.
Except Lewis was basically an "anglo-catholic" and didn't run a public "ministry" where every second piece of content is a criticism or attempt to refute the Catholic Church.... 🤔😅🤷♂️
Huge reach 😅😅 hahahaha
And Matt is Lewis?
@@erinhenninger341 Matt is Roman Catholic like Tolkien? Why would he be Lewis?
But I don't think the analogy really fits either way
@@RedRoosterRoman Refuting Catholic abuse, heresy, and wicked behavior while holding firm that she is a church with the same ecumenical claim as any other denomination is a ministry. No need for parentheses.
First time being exposed to Gavin. He’s really cool! Will definitely be checking him out more.
One could totally binge watch his channel. He’s really full of interesting content.
I love the conversation! Gavin, I have been thriving on your channel for the last several weeks. You have been a blessing in my life. I hope to meet you someday.
I really appreciate Gavin. He’s helped me immensely.
You guys are my 2 favorite youtubers! Thanks for doing this. Was so encouraged to listen to this and to see such love and friendship between a Catholic and a Baptist. Praying for the unity of the church.
The office of Pope is the principle of unity in the Christian church. Disunity stems from a rejection of papal authority. Praying for unity in the church as well.
@@SevereFamineIf by "principle of unity" you are suggesting it is necessary for unity, I would disagree that this is necessary. Maybe prudential I could grant but not necessary. I point to the eastern church as an example of this. They have different patriarchs with no pope at top and they are in fellowship with one another. I pray there could be a way for us all to be back in fellowship yet retain our general traditions. I am fine with there being distinctions of convictions within the body but I wish we could recognize how we agree on the essentials and are all under the headship of Christ.
@@joshuareeves5103 When did the divisions happen in Christianity? It has only happened when there have been rebellions against authority. You cannot have true unity unless you are under the same authority. The Catholic Church has many traditions (23 rites) in union with each other so there’s a true diversity there that doesn’t mean accepting or turning a blind eye to heresy or serious error. God bless.
@@SevereFamine Hey brother. From my perspective, Catholicism has drawn the line in areas where it shouldn't have and hasn't where it should have. You may think Protestantism was all about getting away from authority, but I think this misses the mark. Protestants wanted to remain in the catholic church, just sought reform. Catholics decided certain doctrines were essential which I don't think ought to have been essential.
For example, I know of Catholic Priests that teach that Homosexual acts are okay. It seems odd to me to not divide on this basis regarding morality and something actually discussed in Scripture, and yet to choose to divide on whether Mary was assumed to heaven or immaculately conceived seems like lines we shouldn't divide on. Anathema attached to icons and bodily assumption seems counter to what Paul and Peter would have attached anathemas to.
Non denominational here, and I have been greatly encouraged and inspired by this dialog!
They struck a cord here numerous times that I have been feeling, that we are in a day and age where we dehumanize others. Whether it's politics, religion, or anything else, it really seems like anyone who is opposed to us is our enemy. They are not a fellow creation of God, but an object to receive our hatred. We, especially as Christians, need to learn how to treat others with respect and not as talking points.
I totally agree with you! 😊
You two personified what you were talking about, two people providing a safe space to be open and ask questions and be healthy. So glad it was that and not a debate. Keep up the good work!
Oh my goodness, Dr. Ortlund discovering yard work is the most wholesome and hilarious thing ever! 😂 I love it!
The entire “Internet vs. Reality” segment, you can really tell Gavin has been camping out in Digital Liturgies. Such a good book. It’s beginning to change my life.
Thanks brothers - love both of your work and especially when you can have a long form dialogue like this! I really appreciated the discussions about putting intentional limits on technology and also just saying no to protect sabbath time/family time. One of my favorite pieces of advice was to this effect: “you are going to disappoint some people - just make sure it’s the right people”. As a husband and a father, it should be rare that I disappoint my wife or children
Gavin has such a pastoral heart and way of communicating, while being thorough and intelligent.
Gavin has an icy heart of stone and a voice that sounds like a snake in a tree.
That is quite the accusation... I will deem this slander unless you come with proof. And since you do not see the man's heart, I see not how you can come with such evidence. @HallowMas-m3s
@@HallowMas-m3syou clearly do not know the fruits of the Holy Spirit.
@@HallowMas-m3s I think you missed the point of the entire conversation they had at the beginning of the video
@@HallowMas-m3s what a sad person you must be
Gavin ortlund is my favorite protestant apologist. As a Catholic he makes it easier to listen his point of view without me feeling being attacked.
Spot on.
Matt is spot on about "living your life until something stops working" and only then does someone accept new arguments.
That was a Goliath of a drop of wisdom and I doubt he even knows how mighty that speck of truth really is.
So helpful for myself to hear someone articulate truth like that.
@ Father Stephen De Young talks about a similar phenomenon on the Lord of Spirits Podcast. Couldn't point to an episode but check it out if you are interested!
@@alecfoster448 thanks!
Been WAITING for this !!!
Oh wow, wonderful conversation! Thank you very much!!! As a confessional Lutheran (the reclusive denomination) myself, I was so happy to hear Jordan Cooper being mentioned (yay, lol!). That thing about going back to what is old, a Saint once said: You go back to what is old, because it is true for it has passed the test of fire (time). I would add though, all fathers have to be tested by the words of the Lord himself. Reading Augustine is simply delicious, but even there one must still weigh the words of Augustine against the words of the Lord (I think brother Augustine would say the same thing, thinking of his ponderings on the relationship between Truth(Hearing the Lord speak) and Magisterial Authority in his contemplation why the words of Ambrose moved him so much to convert). Thank you for your guys efforts.
Gavin’s video on why Evangelicals need church history made me visit a confessional Lutheran church for the first time and I’ve been going these last Sundays. I’m in awe and in love! Lord willing I will be confirmed there soon.
Btw, Jordan Cooper is such a blessing. Love him.
@@ora_et_labora1095 Gods rich blessings for this step in life!
Gavin looking great in this one!
Great discussion! I really appreciate you sharing this moment with us.
Love the section on Detaching from the Internet, I've practiced the time barrier. I also love Gavin Ortland's idea of having a physical barrier of rooms he won't take his phone into. I'm definitely adding that. I'm with Matt I disabled the internet browser! (go into settings, safari settings, all only these websites, then deselect all...combine this with deleting all other internet apps and unhealthy apps, turn off the app store, lock down screentime and give password to trusted friend) It's been a game changer!
Thanks for this awesome ecumenical dialogue Matt! Hope to see more of this. Great discussion.
I think Gavin touched on some important points in the beginning. Much of the world is becoming more estranged from God and therefore each other
I am 75 and gone through lots of stages and experiences. I've faced anxiety, depression, various crosses. It all has had purpose in my life and made me who I am. Seeing God's hands on in all my life is my proof of God for me. I learned a principle I keep going back to and grow from is, all my responses to life can be reduced to fear and love, and fear is not real. When I seriously look at my fears they are generally future focused and a projectionn of a worst case scenario. I also automatically start to put up protective defences that wall me off and separate me. It is in a way what sin is /missing the target is about. Love is a decision is the otherway to observe and place experiences.the love path generally requires being conscious enough to fear that I can consciously over ride the automatic fear response and start looking for a proactive love response. That sounds complicated. Prayer is simpler, a kind or letting go and letting God.
An example. I am noticing fear is affecting me and I need a better choice than fight, flight, freeze or fawn which generally leaves walls. Show me from your life how you would handle this and help me follow. Fear is generally connected to my crosses. This may seem over simplified but start looking at scriptures in this light it is not about becoming robotic but more conscious of Gods presence with me. My deepest experiences are being moments, not doing moments. In your case probably when in discussion and you connect and time disappeared but you know God was close in this experience.
Thanks for your comment
I would say that Gavin @TruthUnites is great at evangelism insomuch as he wears his faith on his sleeve and he speaks openly about the Gospel. Seems pretty good to me ...
Matt, as an ex-atheist to Catholic, what you need to understand about the angst from certain segment of JP supporters (like me) is not that he isn't Catholic.
The frustration comes from folks like me using JP's logic to come to the realisation that God exists, while he uses his logic to skirt around even contemplating the hypothetical that God exists.
I recall JP's logic that tipped me over. JP once asked, somewhat rhetorically, while discussing archetypes, paraphrased poorly, "If an archetype is valid across these few dimensions, how true must that archetype be if it is valid along those and a whole multitude of other dimensions?"
I applied that reasoning to Jesus. If Jesus is the archetype of the perfect man (Uber mensch as JP would say), and if emulating His life and approach to life's misery was true back then, is true now, for men and women, across cultures, appeals to people when applied to art and movies etc. and many other such dimensions. Then how true must Jesus and His preaching be? Well to my mind, it must be true literally. No other single person fits quite as well as an archetype of the perfect man, by a LONG shot. Not Muhammed, not Buddha, not Joseph Smith, not Charles Taze Russell, not a single patriarch or prophet of the Old Testament and not a single pagan deity.
That JP cannot bring himself to accept that his own logic leads to the literal truth of Jesus is what frustrates folks that returned to Christ like me.
He's a classical liberal. Liberals are Nihilists. Jung is just repackaged Nihilism masquerading as spirituality and philosophy. He can't allow himself to see God because it would require submission. Spirit of the ages.
Jordan Peterson does appear to be a racist. It seems it is only racists who would say that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) isn't the 'perfect man'. Pretty sure his hero Nietzsche would agree. In the Antichrist, Nietzsche says, "If Islam despises Christianity, it has a thousandfold right to do so: Islam at least assumes that it is dealing with men." He may have thought more highly of Islam than Christianity insofar as Islam was more focused on this life rather than an afterlife. He also said in the next section of the Antichrist:
Christianity destroyed for us the whole harvest of ancient civilization, and later it also destroyed for us the whole harvest of Mohammedan civilization. The wonderful culture of the Moors in Spain, which was fundamentally nearer to us and appealed more to our senses and tastes than that of Rome and Greece, was trampled down (-I do not say by what sort of feet-) Why? Because it had to thank noble and manly instincts for its origin-because it said yes to life, even to the rare and refined luxuriousness of Moorish life!... The crusaders later made war on something before which it would have been more fitting for them to have grovelled in the dust-a civilization beside which even that of our nineteenth century seems very poor and very “senile.”-What they wanted, of course, was booty: the orient was rich.... Let us put aside our prejudices! The crusades were a higher form of piracy, nothing more! The German nobility, which is fundamentally a Viking nobility, was in its element there: the church knew only too well how the German nobility was to be won.... The German noble, always the “Swiss guard” of the church, always in the service of every bad instinct of the church-but well paid.... Consider the fact that it is precisely the aid of German swords and German blood and valour that has enabled the church to carry through its war to the death upon everything noble on earth! At this point a host of painful questions suggest themselves. The German nobility stands outside the history of the higher civilization: the reason is obvious.... Christianity, alcohol-the two great means of corruption.... Intrinsically there should be no more choice between Islam and Christianity than there is between an Arab and a Jew. The decision is already reached; nobody remains at liberty to choose here. Either a man is a Chandala or he is not.... “War to the knife with Rome! Peace and friendship with Islam!”: this was the feeling, this was the act, of that great free spirit, that genius among German emperors, Frederick II. What! must a German first be a genius, a free spirit, before he can feel decently? I can’t make out how a German could ever feel Christian....
It's time now, perhaps, for JBP to - in addition to saying "It's really deep and complicated" as answers to the questions "Does God really exist" "Do you believe the resurrection really happened" "Are you a Christian" etc...to see that - although these are incredibly profound questions - Jesus himself says that the Kingdom is to be entered by becoming like a little child and unless we become like children we'll never make it. He knows enough now, he's had so many good conversations with amazing Christians, from this point on, unless he takes the gospel on faith in a humble and childlike manner and clearly steps over the line, his speech will get ever more convoluted and word-saladish and - with regard to Christianity - he'll actually have less and less to say. Does that sound harsh? I greatly love and respect him and he has so much to say about so many important issues. He's got more backbone and integrity than I'll ever have, probably, but as regards faith, I just get the feeling he's protecting himself somehow and not quite at the point of really losing his life in this world to gain it in the next.
@@zahidali-mt9ck I have a simple question for you friend.
Do you believe that the term 'morally good' includes (but not limited to) the acts of Muhammed marrying a 6yr and consummating that marriage when she was playing with dolls at 9yr?
Sunan an-Nasa'i 3378
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
"The Messenger of Allah married me when I was six, and consummated the marriage with me when I was nine, and I used to play with dolls."
Grade: Sahih (Darussalam)
Reference : Sunan an-Nasa'i 3378
In-book reference : Book 26, Hadith 183
English translation : Vol. 4, Book 26, Hadith 3380
See, we start to see the myth is attached to the matter at some point... however, the matter that plays host to the myth starts to receed in faith until the bread becomes Flesh... the Word becomes Flesh...
I'm stealing the day of Jubilee idea. That's fantastic.
“Beauty is the arrowhead of evangelization.” -Bishop Barron
I want to start loving my brothers in Christ, regardless of personal convictions. Truth unites us all.
The year of Jubilee with your children is genius Matt.
Gavin rocks!
I was in church, I listened to only Christian music, I served at church since 1998, I could not sit, read and understand scripture until 2019. It was like a lightbulb finally went off and I have been driven to learn more and more since. It was syncing in with The Holy Spirit. So patience is definitely needed by the seed planter.
Big Kevin Vanhoozer fan here! Glad to hear his name coming up in this conversation.
Ortlund and Fradd, attorneys at law.
If Matt Fradd were a super hero I think he’d be Captain Obvious! 😂. A lot of what he says is aggressively non-controversial. And I think that’s part of the charm of this channel. Sometimes it’s nice to just hear folks talking about interesting yet mundane things without the rage-bating. 😊
Yes yes yes! Thank you Lord that this conversation has taken place and that we may listen and consider these matters heartily.
Gonna be honest, I've always thought Gavin is a stronger apologist than James White. I don't understand why White is considered big leagues, and Ortland articulates a lot better, even if I disagree with his theology
@@NotablySped Have had very similar thoughts about these two. If I'm a Protestant wanting to send our A Team to some debate Gavin is on the list whereas James not so much
White has been doing this A LONG time, while Gavin is still relatively new on the scene. As such, I think White comes across as a little jaded and impatient with a lot of topics. I speculate this comes from 30 years of dealing with the same issues time and again.
@@scotthartsfield5786 I agree. He’s much better in the realm of Islam. He has loads of patience and charity in his interactions with Muslims and has done some great work dialoguing with them.
Gavin in this video mentions starting his channel four years ago. James White has been at it more like 40. I look forward to Gavin gaining more traction, growing, and being a greater influence. I'm thankful for both, though I've been finding myself more divergent from White over the last few years, even though we are both 1689ers, while Gavin isn't.
Oh my goodness Matt! I love the jubilee year idea! I’m a younger millennial (married but no kids yet) but I totally want to do that one day! I absolutely could never have confessed anything to my parents without punishment as a child, and I think it would have helped me to have that now and then. In college, I struggled a lot with scrupulosity and thinking that God is just waiting with his clipboard to catch me out.
I love these discussions. I feel like Protestants don't teach some things well, like the sanctity of marriage, the sacrements, and won't give Mary deserved honor and could learn from Catholics in these areas, whereas Catholics could relax a little and not make such definitive anathemas against non-salvific issues...if we could each listen and decide that we are in accords even if we disagree on lesser issues. We would look more unified to the world I think. Just some thoughts...feel free to tell me I'm wrong 😂
I appreciate you having Gavin on. Thank you.
I really liked this video. I don't have a lot of channels I follow on RUclips but it has kind of boiled down to debates or arguments against one side or the other. This is a nice change because there wasn't an argument, just a good conversation between 2 friends about stuff I can relate too.
I rediscovered my faith with the birth of my children. I don’t fully understand it still but when I look at them I see Gods love. My love for them isn’t from evolution it’s something so much more profound and can only be part of something much greater than myself
How did I missed this.. I'm so excited
Amazing conversation!
31:45 When Matt talks about the “vibes” of atheism being pulling.. I find the “vibes” of theism to be so much more compelling. The existential experience of being moved to tears by listening to an orchestral piece that moves you is not explained by ANYTHING darwinian and nobody was socialized to be that way (the fact that music is even a possibility in a world of purposelessness, that it’s pleasurable to hear and has an entire field of study is too radical to be unremarkable).. the experience of guilt is also unexplainable from those avenues (guilt itself cannot be measured, but the effects of guilt are absolutely seen happening in our bodies).. these are very real, very existential, very visceral spiritual experiences that carry way more “vibes” than any atheist who says “why can’t you see god?” If we have to wait to believe in something because we can only see that something’s effect without seeing the something itself, science would have died a long time ago
Great convo, cheers Matt and Gavin ❤
Two of my favourite RUclipsrs.
One of the most engaging conversations I've heard in a long time. It left me hungry for more.
I had to do a sorta long job baking, and you guys kept me company.
40:40 I’ve thought about this too. I could be wrong, but I think the inability for people to “hang in there,” or sit with the tension of two conflicting perspectives that have a lot of good evidence ultimately comes down to a lack of resilience. A lot of people don’t seem to be very mentally tough, and would prefer to be told what to think. It’s uncomfortable then to decide for themselves what they should think. I say this as someone who’s had multiple big and uncomfortable shifts in my own thinking about free will/determinism, or different eschatological theories. It’s definitely uncomfortable when you reach the point where you’re about to trade a long held belief for another!
Will have to watch this in pieces over a couple days .
Amazing interview!
I wish Matt could bring Justin Brierley or Sean McDowell to the show too or Paul VanDerKlay
Love this talk. I will say this about JP. I went to a talk of his last year and I honestly didn't think I heard a single thing he hadn't said in his lectures before becoming famous. As C.S. Lewis once said it's through the reading of old books that mere Christianity reveals itself and one can be made aware of modern biases that lead to synthetic religions. Considering how much Peterson gives in to the atheist worldview and how little he seems to know of the great Christian theologians of the past, it seems difficult to conclude he isn't just offering one of those synthetic religions C.S. Lewis tried to warn us about
I really love and appreciate Gavin Ortland. What a true man of God. I hope one day God brings him home to the fullness of the faith so he may experience all of the graces of the sacraments… but even if that doesn’t come to pass, I know that the Holy Spirit will still use him in a powerful way to bring more souls into the Kingdom of God through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. May our Lord bless him and keep him.
Matt, as far as evangelism, your point about someone being attracted to something first is such a good point. As such, perhaps the best form of evangelism might be portraying such a humble beauty in our lives so that others want the same. Then a conversation might start from that
Excellent
I think you, Matt, touched on something I thought about when my grown, atheist son asked me what I would do if it was proven that God didn’t exist. My knee-jerk reaction was to say there would be no way to prove that; but he persisted-but what if it was proven? I dug down and came up with: I still would believe because I CHOOSE GOD.
I'd love to have a beer with these two.
Maybe even a pint?
Really? A beer with two narcissists? I’d pass.
@@tomlabooks3263 YOOOOUUUUU SHALL NOOOOTTTTT PASS!!!!
Ruslan, Blessed God do great response video's. Very positive
I miss the title "Pints with Aquinas"
Is there some reason Catholics have stopped using the terms "rigorism" and "rigorist" for "conservative" heresies of the "far-right"? Such a helpful term that needs to be revived.
Great conversation! Anyone else think Gavin’s voice sounds just like Fr Gregory Pine’s?
I don’t believe there’s ever been a time like this. Where in history was physical reality denied. A time when politicians and judges can’t define a woman because “they’re not biologist”. A time a significant amount of people are claiming things so divorced from reality that you’re just left stunned by the lunacy of it all. No, there’s absolutely no time like this in the history of the world.
We were made for such a time as this…
Imagine if all inter-denominational Christian dialogue was like this. How amazing it would be (I'm looking at you Twitter)
It’s so ironic, and sad, to see the kind of finger-pointing that was critiqued at 47:00 being played out in the comments. Like come on guys! Let us be pleasing to the Lord by finding Christ in common!
1:10:09 - 1:11:00 excellent work by Matt.
In regards to the ChatGPT thing, to answer your question: yes. It’s very good at giving points and arguing different opinions and perspectives. Spent a good 30 minutes just debating with it and it is strong
was really nice
'Leave it to Beaver.' 'Ozzie and Harriet'. 'Father Knows Best.' TV shows that I grew up with. I'm 70. And my goodness, this era is like NOTHING I've ever gone thru. My Dad, who was a WWII vet, would say the same, perhaps with greater intensity.
Gavin and Matt are the reason why now I'm neither a protestant nor a catholic but I haven't ruled out any of the two traditions.
You must be Orthodox then 🤔😁 it's about time you were coming home to Christ's Church. Dominus Vobiscum 🙏❤️🙏
Myself too. God gave me a dream on this matter which I've been called to share in the past but not here today... However the meaning of the dream remains true:
When persecution comes, we will not be among baptists or Catholics or seventh day or any other denomination, but among those who hold that Jesus is God above all. And they will be found in the midst of all of these.
Am 68 and I've never experienced a world like this. Even with the fear of Soviets attacking, not the chaos, confusion and trouble everywhere like now. 4:39
I'm coming to the cigar shop I'm a local I really feel like this conversation makes sense. I'm just trying to think it out also......
spot on on Jordan Peterson. I pray he will make a conversion. It is good he is engaging in conversations with believers. I think he is too smart and not able to let go of self thought and control. I still love listening, but pray for him.
"Kaleidoscopic" is worth a second thumb up
83 babies!!!
Until he said it, I didn’t realize how similar to Gavin I was in sometimes over-intellectualizing the faith and being a poor evangelist as a consequence
Amen!
The ACNA is in very active dialogue with Rome about limited communion and recognition of Holy Orders. This is a big step toward unity. May not be perfect but definitely good to see active dialogue with purpose.
These brotherly discussions are helping Catholics NOT worship the Bride ... and helping Protestants NOT worship a written Canon. Praise be to the one true, Triune God!
My favourite Protestant
I want round 2 + Jordan Cooper!
This was a really nice discussion to listen to. The part concerning decision fatigue felt very relatable, in my case I’ve felt it a lot with what church to attend. As someone from a “secular Lutheran” background, I have the last few years tried to learn more about other Christian denominations. For me it seems like a lot of denominations have very good arguments for their particular denomination, so at the end of the day I end up not attending any church service out of decision paralysis. (Although I definitely have narrowed it down to more high church traditions)
I'm becoming a catechumen this Sunday! 💃🥳🎉
God bless!!
🎉❤❤❤🎉yey!!!!
God bless you on your journey
There was a section where you guys were talking (roughly estimated) 2:11:00 talking about how some sins are recognized and then others aren't. You know I kind of felt like this recently, for me it's kind of like I feel like in my head when somebody says I'm a Christian I find myself questioning what do you mean by that because sometimes it can feel like a person says they're one thing but then as soon as a person turns their back they're beast like backbiting if you get what I mean. I've only been a Christian just over two years, and I've been going to one Church (Protestant) for about 6 months before that I had gone to different churches Catholic being one of them, it interests me to see the dynamic of how some places show Christ outwardly but then other buildings look like high school. Now this is a personal experience of mine, so each person's experience will be different but I feel like Christ said judge not or you will be judged evenly or according to the measure that you judge and I've actually seen it multiple times as a sign. What is your take on this? Because like I say I'm going to Protestant church right now but sometimes I find myself leaning more Catholic the only thing keeping me from that is the fact that it's really overwhelming the amount of stuff you have to do to become like part of it.
I am a product of Protestant de-construction and it ended up bringing me to the Catholic Church. So Praise the Lord! I’m sure evangelicals freak out when people leave their rock concert events, but it’s not always a bad thing believe me.
Praise God
I'd love to interview you.
@@kellibuzzard9431 I would love to tell my story to anyone who will listen.
I LOVE GAVIN!!!
Good stuff Mr Ryan....On a somewhat similar journey as yours
What about Stubenville was making her sick if not the weather pollution?
Great conversation. ❤
@1:06:55 We need to immerse ourselves in the Word of God, which is the truth, The Holy Spirit uses His word to guide us. Sometimes we camp too much on philosophy, on denomination battles, on influencers or faith speakers and we neglect the study of the Bible and Prayer which strengthens us and give us peace knowing the Good Shepherd won't let us go astray.