theyre not falling anywhere... do the math. raise the price 40% sell 25% less.... 100k units at lets say 50k a piece = 500M if you sell 25% less... now youve made 375M at the OLD price but if you raise the msrp 40%... and are producing less thus paying less ppl to make fewer trucks... you actually come out WAY ahead. the suits are laughing collecting 20M dollar bonuses.
They significantly increased quality for their core products. The Jeep Grand Cherokee and Ram 1500. The time that the 3.6L and 5.7L have been in the product portfolio has increased their reliability metrics. I can instantly tell the difference in quality between the 2018 and 2023 models.
Perhaps when Carlos Tavares interviewed with the Stellantis board he told them, "This is my MSRP but I have a long list of add-on's that you must pay me for as well or I won't take the job."
They have tried every owner there are out there. (That are willing to touch the company) Mercedes, Fiat, Peugeot. Only thing left is sell it to the chineese. (for the last 30 years it has been clear that no American owner wants to go all in) The problems goes deeper then the owners. Chrysler and dodge maybe should not exist any longer as car brands. Then focus on Jeep and Ram that have a global market.
Corporate greed. In 2023, Carlos Tavares, the CEO of Stellantis, received a total compensation package of $39.5 million, which was a 56% increase from 2022.
YEEEEESSSS!!! I 100% AGREE!!! I've been saying this for YEARS!!! All of these executives are making TOO MUCH money!!! Sorry... I'm really passionate about this.
This story has repeated itself way too many times now. Some incompetent bozo of a CEO drives a company nearly into the ground, then runs away with millions of dollars as normal folks lose their jobs and go on unemployment. Something has to give.
Tavares pay is well deserved; raping CDJR customers for record profits, soon moving manufacturing labor cost overseas. UAW now holds a contract that is worthless; way to go Motor Trend’s man of the year. Koolaid greed for the here and now, no one looking for basic long term solutions. RIP CDJR!
@@ericarntson2035must be a ‘Carlos Syndrome’ since Carlos Ghosn was the other one who did that to Nissan. Japan still trying to prosecute him. Won’t be long before America tries to prosecute the Stellantis Carlos.
BINGO! FINALLY! Someone gets it!!! That comment is the formula for SUCCESS for the Jeep Wrangler! Just let people customize their own Jeep through the dealer website and once ready, 💥BOOM!💥 They can come and pick it up! Just DON'T change the design! AND bring the prices back under 40k! Where they belong!
The European executives at Stellantis are completely out of touch with traditional Mopar buyers. Seriously, selling fewer than 2,000 Dodge Hornets per month will not offset the loss of Charger and Challenger sales. By the way, the Dodge Hornet is built in the Southern Italian city of Naples.
It was hard to fit the ICE Charger and Challenger within CAFE though. Weren't Dodge paying $200m p/a in CAFE fines for those vehicles? You can sell 'some' big V8 cars (as BMW, Mercedes, Maserati etc do) but you need to sell a lot of smaller more economical cars to offset that and get your CAFE MPG average where it needs to be. Yet Stellantis cancelled their smaller economy cars like the Dodge Dart and Chrysler 200 in USA and Canada. The SUV/light truck segment is a little easier with its higher MPG allowance.
I think it's pricing, my local Ford dealership has been ordering a lot single cab 5.0 f150 XL trim level selling them at $38k and they can't keep them in stock, maybe it's just in my area but the $70 plus trim level trucks are just sitting on the lot now.
In March of 2019 I purchased a Ram 1500 etorque V6 with several options. The truck was built in Sterling Heights, Michigan in November 2018. I received almost $13K in incentives. The OTD price with tax, title, license etc. was $41K even. It has been trouble free. I really love the truck. I think any vehicle built before the Covid fiasco was a bargain. I will keep this truck until it dies
Mopar is the story of engines. The Hemi renaissance saved them in the 00s The pentastar saved them in the teens. They need hurricane and electrification in 20s
The biggest problem for stellantis is that the 2019+ trucks just run so well and last so long I don't need to but a new one anytime soon. my 2019 6.4 has been a dream with 140k on it now
In 10 minutes I’m driving my 22 Grand Cherokee bought new. It has 22k miles. At 8k new engine mounts, trans mounts, door panels, rear gate panel. GPS glitches. Today goes for oil and tire rotation plus check on why front speakers aren’t working!! To JEEP, normal.
@tommy516 no. Normal FCA reliability. I owned a ram and it had a transmission, constant headlights going out, door locks, weeped coolant, and so much squeeking trim.
@@grahamstefaan I have a 22 Gladiator Mojave, with about 18k miles on it. Drive it mostly shorter distances but have done a couple road trips, have had absolutely ZERO issues and it gets remote started and ran for sometime excessive periods of time. Are you saying I’m the lucky one?
I’ve got a 2019 Cherokee 3.2 and a 2019 Durango 5.7 in my household. Cherokee has 45K trouble free miles and the Durango just had its first repair at 67K miles and it was the ac condenser. And I just changed the rear brakes, front is original and I’m not easy on them. I don’t think they’re all bad
@joshsteward1488 the problem with your line of thinking is that very few people consider RAM a quality product. It's always been the discount product. RAM has done this throughout it's history, they are always last to innovate, when they finally do, they have a surge in sales for a few years, then the public remembers, RAMs are terrible products, you only buy one if you can't afford a better truck. Add the ridiculous price RAM wants, and the majority are going to GM and Ford.
@terrencejones9817 I switched to Ram in 2005 after having issues with GM. I'm on my 4th truck. The previous three I put right at 200k on each truck with no issues. They have all been super dependable and solid.
@coreysmith2774 That's great. Unfortunately That's no the experience with the vast majority of customers. Myself ,being a 25-year automotive industry professional, my opinion is that they are sub-par products. It shows in other areas, the resale sucks, they always have the highest discount, the largest number of recalls too. Chrysler and it's parent companies have gone bankrupt 3 times now. They do not build good products.
I feel like Jeep, Ram, Dodge is trying too hard to be a luxury brands and forgetting where they started and who their core customers are. Yeah they should have some fancy trims available but need to get back to what made them great before.
If anyone thinks it’s because of those “darn UAW workers”. Just remember, GM Mexico(makes the majority of the 1500 trucks) pays their workers $9-$33 per DAY. Their prices aren’t much better, and have still gone up way beyond “inflation”.
@@davidporter7051 the price increases on the bronco raptor, ram TRX, and ram limited, have gone up 20k each since 21/22. In that same time inflation has gone up 15.9% and 7.3% respectively. Those increases are each above 20%. In 21 I bought an f150 xlt sport new, sticker was $53k. I went and looked at an identical 24 model, $66k. No discounts applied to either in these figures. Again, a 20% increase. Yes, google is easy to use.
You cannot change the Wrangler. Just ask Porsche what happened to their sales when they changed the way the 911 looked. Their sales plummeted. Also, Mercedes knows this as well with their G wagon. It has to stay the same. It is an iconic look.
FCA is in its current predicament because of the late Sergio Marchionne. He gutted Dodge by making Ram amd moving the commercial vehicles over, killed the Journey instead of redesigning it, moved the minivan over to what is supposed to be the luxury brand (my guess to make room for Alfa Romeo), and then left Chrysler with nothing but a minivan left. Long story short, he made a complete mess out of the three Auburn Hills brand and now Stellantis is left with four brands with no identity anymore (maybe except Jeep). Marchionne didn't know what the hell he was doing here.
I’m a living example…… tried to replace my 08 Wrangler w/293k miles. Internet spec’d a 24 4dr Wrangler Willys @ MSRP @ about$48k. No dealer would order…. wanted me to take an off the lot….. all $60-65k….. even $5k off not what I was willing to spend. Ordered a 24 Bronco MSRP $49k….. delivered in 10 weeks; paid $47k….. miss my Jeep. But not that much.
I said it a long time ago I work at Jeep call their vehicles are way too expensive they forgot who they building these vehicles for the common work folks we can't afford 70, 80 100,000 vehicles I work for Jeep and I can't even afford a Jeep Wrangler can I build a Jeep Wrangler. These vehicles are way too expensive especially for the poor quality. This is why I recommend people buy Toyota or Honda if you want good quality built vehicles. The problem is not the way we build them is the quality of material in the rush in demand that they don't care about the quality that we put into these vehicles just rush them off the line. I really need to get back to investing in quality vehicles at stellantis can lowering the price of these vehicles so the everyday worker who doesn't make six figures can afford these vehicles
I want a Gladiator, but the purchase price is way too much. Even used ones are 30k plus with 80k+ miles. But vehicles in general are too high. I'm a blue-collar worker with decent wages, but inflation and cost of living make these vehicles unobtainable. What's worse, dealerships want to only give you half the value for your trade in so it's a lose/ lose. I'm not up side down on my vehicles, but don't wish to through money away that I see dealers mark up your trade in. Expecting to make 5k+ on each vehicle they sell. A change needs to happen.
Go buy a plain Jane honda and toyotas that are absolutely hideous, toyatos quality is terrible look it up, these companies have no tech or anything in them, boring to me, and I'll never support foreign vehicles
Their vehicle engines are leaking and shutting down or blowing up and you are absolutely correct about the vehicles being to expensive. The upside for the American buyers is that our government representatives do not nor should help to bail Stellantis out especially since has proudly stated that CDJR is no longer an American company and every company that has been sold to a business outside of the USA has been either been destroyed or product and services has diminished greatly. As long as planned obsolescence is the mentality for auto manufacturers, it is going to get worse for them all. The downside to this is the lost of American jobs again and the possibly the end of one or more iconic American made vehicles unless something changes drastically.
I've always said when a foreign person buys an American company he or she screwed the hell out of the company. Since the person is pushing foreign things into the American company. I've always said that foreign people do not know what Americans like instead they build things what the foreign person likes and sells it in America. At some point I hope nobody bails Stellantis out if they go under because they do not deserve to be bailed out the head guy is screwing what Chrysler Jeep Dodge Ram are.
The universal "the engines are bad" complaint in every car video lol. Chrysler engines are just fine. I would say it's the one area where they actually excel still compared to the other manufacturers.
Their prices just aren't competitive anymore. A base Jeep Grand Cherokee laredo is $65,000 CAD, and a fully loaded Ford Explorer timberline is $54,000 CAD.
All good points, but you hit the nail on the head... For the masses to move, the needle pricing has to come down to 2019 pricing and give the option of less tech less safety tech... America is tapped out and needs cool styling in the $40,000 price range... If they don't make these changes quickly, China will make them for them....
You mean the lifter eating manifold bolt breaking early 2000’s v8? Why would a company keep paying emissions fines (i.e. buy credits from Tesla) for an outdated engine? Btw I daily drive a 1500 with the 5.7 Hemi. If the hurricane is even moderately reliable it would be a step up- all its power and MPG specs already beat the hemi.
@@Lq32332yes, they should have kept the hemi. It was popular, cheap to manufacture and it was profitable despite having to pay the climate mafia for carbon penalties.
I’m somewhat surprised the 3.0 Hurricane hasn’t made it to the Wrangler lineup yet. The Jeep branded products started their price increases before the pandemic. At one time we could buy a fully loaded Grand Cherokee for $45k-$55k sticker price. Overnight they became $55k-$65k + for the same vehicles.
@@Kahless00 there are about fifty YT videos claiming we are getting three new powertrains for 25 on the gladiator. The hurricane TT, a new single turbo and the 4XE. Who knows, guess we’ll find out in September
@@jfletcher4949 if the Gladiator is selling so poorly, I see a lot of them to be honest; why not make it more competitive with all the other small trucks out there?
The issue with the Grand Cherokee from what I'm reading on one of the Facebook groups is that it is having a lot of electrical issues. That and the look of the WL platform is polarizing for some people who preferred the older WK2. For the record, I have a 2015 GC Summit. They are supposedly refreshing the Grand Cherokee for 2025 but also putting in a new turbocharged four cylinder and this is apparently pissing people off also.
This is what happens when you to way to much "targeting" one to three customer groups ... there are only so many $55K to $75K truck customers ... there are only so many public sector customers like law enforcement ... and there are only so many performance car customers out there to sell to. In Mexico they market a dynamite small truck called the 700 in both 2 door an 4 door models ... all reasonably priced. Don't care what business you're in, you have to have cheaper models as well as expensive models to meet demand.
Of course, all comments are cathartic since few of them get read, so itis an exercise in futility. However my 2013 Wrangler is getting tired after 200K miles and I was looking into replacing it with another Wrangler but the prices are completely out of sight. I have a sport 2 door with basically only an automatic and air , no fancy anything, basic. No electronic door locks, nothing, basic. That's all I want. New Wranglers on the lot are always 15K more than I want to spend, it makes Subaru and Bronco Sport, or the Maverick all look good by comparison. Sure, they are not a Wrangler, but let's face it, 99% of stuff is on regular roads or mild truck roads or "trails" at least for most people. MY driving includes forest roads, often poorly maintained, and seasonal roads, also poorly maintained. I have stock everything and the jeep never let me down. Even when a sidewall got cut and blew a tire in a rocky uphill wet rood, it jsut kept going until the top where I put the spare on. Also people, grease the spare lug nuts, the shitty tire holder did not hold the stud and ripped out with the lug nut attaches AND you could NOT separate the lug nut from the stud on the spare, it had a washer on the other side if the spare that could not be removed and the lug nut was stuck. Fortunately for me a a guy living in the middle of nowhere was right there living secluded and he had tools for the issue. That jeep was not stopped even with only 3 wheels going up a slippery wet hill. BUT they are too expensive now. Way too much. We are talking about a basic, simple, harsh-riding Wrangler, no frills. Should be available on the lots and if they were, they would sell for sure. Who wants luxury in the woods with branches and rocks bouncing off the vehicle? It IS GOING TO GET damaged, and that's the point, it SHOULD get bangs and scratches and you should not really care about that. That is called character, not a scratch, not a dent, character.
You guys didn't mention the most important part of this equation which is how much net profit is Stellantis making? I remember during Covid Calos Tavares (and other CEOs) were loving the low inventory and high price sales and he said they would never go back to high inventory and low margins, maybe this is all part of their plan?
You guys need to look at some local news at Detroit. Stilantis’ CEO just came in and said that they were going cut costs by 30%. And they just took the ram plant in Warren down to one shift
The ram plant is NOT down to one shift. I think you are confusing Warren Truck (Wagoneer & Classic Ram ending in a few months) and Sterling Heights (New Ram). Additionally, a new plant in Mexico will start building Ram 1500's next year...alongside the HD's that have been built there for years.
WTAP unfortunately is on a 1 shift pattern for the month of July. SHAP is still on a 3 shift pattern. Make no mistake about what’s going on WTAP they need product allocation immediately. The Ram Classic production is officially done in the 3 quarter. Nothing has been announced or allocated to WTAP. It definitely makes sense for WTAP to pickup SHAP overflow or the allocation of New Ram Dakota but we’re dealing with Stellantis here.
Had 4 mopars in my time. 1994 jeep grand Cherokee V8, 1997 dodge ram 1500 5.9, 2006 dodge night runner w/ hemi, and 2010 challenger R/T. I actually really liked all of them, even though they weren’t perfect. What keeps me from buying any more mopar products isn’t their quality, it’s their dealerships. Obviously their prices are extremely high right now and totally nonsense, they need to come down quite a bit. Even then, though, I don’t think I could foresee myself buying another dodge/chrysler/jeep even though I really, really enjoyed their vehicles, simply because I have never(no matter what state I was living in at the time) been able to get their dealerships to fix any issues correctly the first time I brought any of my vehicles in. Remember folks, driving the car off the lot and loving it is only part of ownership. If the company won’t ever service or repair your car under warranty, the warranty is meaningless.
Dealership near me has had like 8+ challengers on the lot for at least the last 8 months, all $50k+ and most being the boring V8. They also have to have about 20+ jeeps that have been sitting for 5+ months
I really wanted to get another Wrangler, but after seeing the prices compared to what I paid just 10 years ago and the reliability data, I went with the Ford instead.
Aren't the Broncos just as overpriced as the Jeeps? Genuine question, I haven't been keeping up on how much dealers are charging for these things these days.
Maybe they can start offering serious loyalty incentives for brand owners along with those discounts. Honestly I don't know how else they can save this company. I don't see other brand owners jumping into Stelantis products.
They lost their ways. I graduated from college in the 80's. Chrysler was the brand that an entry buyer could afford and they catered to this crowd and they were able to offer good cheap products. Now they sre insane. I am heading into retirement and looking for a new vehicle and i cannot afford anything they have to offer.
Whos fault is it? 30K MSRP for a jeep, but dealer add ons raise price to 30K ......now that Jeep costs 60K......... Who decides this? Dealer, manufacturer???
It's not the late 90s and early 00s. The cars are actually pretty good. The issue is that PSA is financing the acquisition of FCA with the North American market. The dramatic price increases happened right after the merger
I've owned a modern Dodge Charger RT. It was a nightmare of electrical issues. I loved how it drove, but after 6 trips to the dealer for failing electrical gremlins, I dumped the damn thing. It's amazing to me that modern car makers cannot figure out reliability. It's ridiculous. And of course, the greedflation on top of the reliability?! Give me a break. I feel bad for the workers, but these types of companies should fail if they can't make reliable, reasonably priced vehicles.
Every manufactor is going to have issues, it's part of mass producing anymore I rather have electrical issues than motors blowing up and trannies going out like Chevy and ford
I own a 21’ Wrangler 392 & a 23’ 300 C also w/ the 392. I love that engine and everything that jeep has stood for. However, you can def see and feel a disconnect between management and the product. There just isn’t any love in the vehicles. No attention to detail, just churning them out. Sad that an American Iconic company’s heritage is being plundered for $. I won’t buy any more Stelantis products.
Looked into a ram, 57k MSRP, dealer marked it down to 43k. I called for a quote, back up to 51k. Asked if they would take 40k out the door and they said no. MSRP is currently back up to 57k 😂 clown world
I bought a 2023 Challenger last month because of the $10k discount on them. The dealerships are getting rid of their 2023's, so the beginning of June and July between Stillantis and the local dealerships, 10k off was a pretty good deal.
I have a 2016 Jeep Wrangler JK 2-door. My transmission is starting to go, I'll be paying to get that fixed as opposed to getting rid of it and buying a new one. The prices are just ridiculous for new jeeps
Looking forward to TFL testing the Ramcharger! But, it's so far out there still.... I can't be the only one waiting to see. Add to that the 'don't buy in the first year' mantra, especially with something all new like that (and the all electric), and now your sales uptick is way out in 27/28?
I just noticed that to and very likely was. Not sure if it was a classic 1st gen, some SRT-10 or any remaining end production models. Either way, it likely was a showroom queen with likely the owner as its driver time to time.
They stop making it because it didn't meet new safety measures and the costs to engineer a new platform was to costly at the time. They actually sold all Vipers making a profit especially the 1 offs ACRs. It's was built for status quo and still the fastest 6 speed manual around the track.
@@GetOffMyyLawn I think you probably have the right of it. Some collector finally made an offer the dealer couldn't refuse and they let go of it for some absurd price I'd wager.
Jeep 4xE at $70k and then after the electricity runs out, you get the same mileage as a normal Wrangler... If I she'll out more money up front, I need real gas savings.
I tried buying a second Jeep wrangler JLUR to replace by JKUR but the price to feature/amenities was a big miss. Their pricing model was ridiculous for what you get. I moved to a different manufacturer and to a truck.
Tommy, as someone who’s you age, drives a wrangler and is also a big Jeep guy, please keep speaking up!!! Jeep being owned by a European company will continue to be its biggest downfall. The brand (as well as dodge and ram) have lost touch completely, as you mentioned with the V8 charger/challengers. I fear that they’re trying to make it a luxury soccer mom brand, instead of keeping true to its roots which is a literal military vehicle. As you always say, it needs to be cheaper, more in touch with American values, and more fun. Theres nothing fun about the new Grand Cherokee. It can’t off-road like the last generation, and there will never be another Trackhawk. Please keep speaking up Tommy🫡
Just my opinion, but as a 2018 GC owner, the GC sales may be down partially because the refresh is rather ugly. I am looking forward to the Ramcharger.
Here in Central Texas I’ve been seeing ads for deep discounts on Stellantis trucks. 10k off Gladiators, 15k off 2500 RAMs. Still expensive, but the dealers are trying
Stalantis is going to end up a much smaller company. They want to sell at ultra luxury car prices then they'll produce ultra luxury car volume. Good luck to all those in the Stellantis assembly lines. They're going to need it
8,000,000 millionaires are the target of car companies. I'm not one of those 8M ppl. It's financial destruction for me to even buy a new Colorado let alone an off road Sierra. $700/month for 72 months isn't happening.
I'm a ford truck man, but I have an old jeep tj, and love the looks of the gladiators. Would totally buy one today, or this week. But what they're asking is crazy for what you're getting. Bare bones sport is like 40k after tt&l. And the new hurricane 6, I love me a straight 6, and the looks of the new dodges, but they don't have an oil dipstick.
One of the biggest reasons for Charger and Challenger sales improvement is the "Horsepower locator" BS they did for the 23 model years. I was very tempted to get a 23 Hellcat Charger to replace my 21 Widebody Scat Pack. However, I couldn't get an allocation at the dealership And wanted. FCA limited to the dealerships they chose, instead. So if I wanted one, I would have had to pay markup (of a highly inflated sticker compared to 21 - they raised prices over $10k!!!) instead of invoice at my preferred dealership. Now, what happened was all of these dealerships didn't get customer orders, they ordered what they wanted to build, and asked for ridiculous markups. So the cars sat on lots. Now, after being on the lots for months or more, the dealerships are FINALLY offering better prices, including discounts. They're still equipped like monkeys ordered them, but they're available and the prices are ok for cars with options people don't care for and no options people want. (There are no Sinamon Stick hellcats anywhere new, but you can find plenty of black or white ones!)
I think there's another thread that not a lot of people are noticing. Parts and service. These days, execs love to boast to shareholders about parts and service income. It's far more reliable and consistent than sales. If you look around, nearly all the companies have high-strung, service queen performance cars. Prime examples being Lamborghini and Bugatti for VW, the AMG One for Mercedes, the Ford GT, The C8 for GM, nearly every single BMW product. Meanwhile a Hellcat or Scat Pack owner is paying more in insurance than they are in service and parts. The Viper driver is paying more in gas than they are service and parts. That's customer's money that isn't going to shareholder's pockets. Paradoxically, the best traits of Mopar have come back to bite them when the earnings report comes around. It reminds me of AMC running into trouble, despite them producing reliable cars with great value.
Prices! When dealers were adding " Market ADJUSTMENTS," you chased most of your base away! Throw In ridiculous finance rates, and you killed your customers!
Wonder if direct to consumer sales would positively impact car companies who make a move to this structure in vehicle sales. This would probably eliminate the "middle man (aka:dealer & salesmen)" who generally hike up prices with sticker mark-ups, sales commissions based on how well you could stick it to the customer, and unnecessary or unrequested add-ons. Ultimately providing cars/trucks for consumers to buy packaged as they like or can afford, while driving up sales for the car companies.
119% wagoneer sales increase but the number of units is small. All Ram and Jeep pricimg is out of control. Ram used to cost less than the other truck brands.
As stated there needs to be a price correction. They are charging bmw-Mercedes pricing while having high interest rates. At these prices people will hold vehicles longer and they will lose repeat business. As for dodge and ram people want the proven v8 especially as they are having issues with the new v6. They should at least offer both engines until the v6 is proven. People buy ram and dodge for the hemi
I love Stallantis. Bought a Rubicon eco-diesel gladiator for 20,000 below msrp end of last year. $74,000 truck for $54,000 dream comes true worth every penny great deal and beyond words can compare in amazing truck
Charger and Challenger were not selling well. They had upwards of $12k in rebates on R/T to move them. They essentially forced dealers to put them into loaner fleets to collect an additional $3-4500 a piece. Another thing is many dealers likely reported them sold to…themselves to sell as used cars. They stripped away a lot of incentive support.
Andre, I know yall have to be nice to the manufacturers...but we don't. The Hemi V-8 wasn't "kinda core" to customers, it was a big f***** deal. I was in high school when the third gen Hemi Rams really took off. You effectively didn't even have a Ram at the time unless it was a Hemi or Cummins. Stellantis deciding to kill the Hemi and replace it with that already problematic I-6 didn't help them at all, and probably moved folks to Ford or Chevy which still offer V-8 options.
I guess I must be an anomaly. I don't care as much about the outside as I do about functionality, especially when it comes to HD trucks. Been doing the online build for GM, Ford, & Ram 1-ton, 4x4, reg cab, big gas V8 (easier cold start) - aka plow truck. (I'd love diesel but just can't justify.) It's interesting (read highly suspect, as in organized price fixing) that they are all within $1k-$2k around $56k. Yet when looking at dealer inventory, every truck in stock is overloaded with every option you could imagine including the computer-controlled, electronic toothbrush charger. Stuff I don't want or need that (1) reduces cargo & towing capacities, (2) adds complexity & (3) drives pricing well north of $70k for gas & $90k for dsl. No thank you.
FCA/Stellantis have been using the old tactic of padding their sales figures by selling cars to their detailers and or forcing them with incentives to take them off their hands. Go over the days on lot and supply. Not only do they charge too much, but other than their initial quality they've always had huge issues and also a horrible dealer experience.
I was at a Dodge dealership seeing about my '22 Challenger and they had a mid-trim, skelotonized Jeep, not even a Rubicon and wanted as much for it as I paid for my Shake-down edition Scat Pack. That's just nuts.
The numbers here look better than the RUclipsrs showing 2022, 2023, 2024 New trucks available. Up to 2 years worth of trucks in inventory. So, it looks like FCA is just supplementing to commercial sales to get rid of them? IDK. I am a Mopar guy since day one, but, I am very concerned there will be a FCA when I need another one.
For giggles, i played around with the 2022 sales numbers of these groups. One glaring number i managed crunch was: If u take out sales of toyota group products from China, Europe and north america in 2023, their sales wudve dropped from 10.5mill to ~6mill++… Which is more or less the same for the entirety of Stellantis. How pathetic can stellantis be? A conglomerate of 15 or so brands, could only equalize with the largest automotive group if u remove them of their major markets. Toyota group only has 4 brands under them btw (toyota, lexus, daihatsu, hino), of which only 2 are available in the US.
Agreed. With Stellantis it's all the same old stuff. Refreshed perhaps but you are correct. People want new things. Think about the old days. September or October, all the hype. The new cars are coming. Bang.... all the car companies come out with new cars. Stellantis is making a major mistake with the new Charger. You show us, you tease us, there's excitement but there's no cars for sale. Seems like they are making the same mistakes the Daimler Chrysler folks did the with Challenger early on. Showed us, showed us, teased us.... years later it's on sale. Thankfully there was still some interest. The old days, a new car launches and guess what.... CARS are on the showroom floor. Maybe just a handful but some ready to get into the hands of the public.
7 ProMaster City have been sold this year 😮 I suppose they were discontinued as the Vauxhall Combo/ Fiat version are now Citroen Berlingo vans. I wonder if FCA will bring the Citroen Berlingo stateside.
RAM prices went way too high the past few years and many dealers still have 2023 and 2024 models on the lots. Dealers aren't as aggressive as they should on 2023 and 2024 to move them. I have tried looking into buying either year discounts aren't great.
I know realize that the Hemis were costing so much more because of emissions and mileage shortfalls. Ok. But, to suddenly drop those engines period? I think they completely killed their truck sales. Sad thing is; they could have saved they’re V8s buy going to a different design. Why hasn’t RAM gone to an all aluminum body? It’s been known for years that they tend to rust. Jeep? I looked at a brand mid-range gladiator. It was interesting with a 6 speed manual. Will, I priced a 2019 (new) 2019 F-150 XLT super cab4x4 5.0L V8. It was$11,000. Of course I bought the F-150. My point? Jeep and RAM for several years way over pricing their products and they’re no where worth the price. Becoming part of FIAT didn’t help.
Aside from being priced too high, they need to stop pushing 4XE models. Our local Jeep dealer seems to only have 4XE models - not what people actually want.
When all you make are vehicles with poor reliability reputations that are either extremely old designs or insanely overpriced compared to their competition, what else can one expect?
Jeeps are great vehicles that have some amazing features that you won’t find on any other manufacturer’s vehicles. The simplest? The next and last/volume buttons on the back of the steering wheel. Way more useful than paddle shifters on a car with a CVT..Toyota and Subaru.
I nearly got a Wrangler 4xe. I rent them constantly for work. I don't think they're great vehicles, but I think they're technically cool and I enjoy them. The PHEV software in the Hornet and Wrangler is almost identical, I like that they're doing standardization in places where it makes sense.
Stellantis REALLY needs to start listening to their customers. Keep the v8's in the Charger and Challenger = no. Add a V8 to the Gladiator = no. Bring back the Dakota = No. Offer a trucklet to fight the Maverick = No. $75K+ Bighorns = Yes 🙄
The problem with ultra-high MSRP prices that you guys don't mention nor have I heard anyone else mention is that because of the sky high MSRP prices compared to GM and Ford is that potential customers don't even bother to go into a Jeep or RAM dealership. That means that the total amount of rebates and discounts (cash on the hood) are not even known to the prospective buyer. Prior to 2020 you would see dealerships advertising truck and SUV rebates from the factory big and bold on their TV advertising. GM dealers are now back to advertising the factory rebates big time and to a lesser degree so is Ford. But NOT RAM and Jeep! I suspect that is because the RAM and Jeep marketing is not letting their dealers do advertise the factory rebates. Dealers know that this gets potential customers in the door. Apparently RAM and JEEP sales/marketing doesn't realize that if you can't get a potential customer in the dealership door you won't sell them a new truck/SUV.
New flash EV's aren't sealing either. So that's not goin' to save 'em. IMO part of the problem is with powertrain selections. Not everyone wants a PHEV or for that matter afford one. Why not a normal hybrid as an option as well? The 2.0L turbo 4 is OK for the Wrangler base engine, the PentaStar sorry but that's gotta go. Can the Hurricane fit in the Wrangler? The 392 well we all knew that was going to be a limited run. The 3'0L in the Ram has good power but really should've been more like 3.5L like the Ecoboost. The displacement is small and making +500HP makes me question long term durability. Will you see an HO Hurrican w/ +250K miles?
As a former Ram truck owner, i was absolutely disgusted when i tried to purchase one in April of this year. Now the Hemi trucks are gone, and they just gave the big middle finger to most of the die hard Ram owners.
So much of the unaffordabillty of these vehicles has to do with the dealers. Most only stock premium trims and then stacking on $4k worth of undercoatings and paint protection garbage. Most won’t allow ordering a more affordable trim or one configured with what you ACTUALLY need on it. The manufacturers may as well remove the configurators from their websites because zero chance of you getting the opportunity to actually build and order what you want.
Definitely a price problem. People can't afford groceries these days, let alone a $100k suv for their kids to trash. These car companies definitely are a huge part of the hyper-inflation problem. It all goes back to this ridiculous push towards EV. Consumers will ALWAYS pay for it. Regardless of whether they buy one or not. Money just gets moved around. Side note: I don't think anyone other than journalists want to drive an electric Challenger either.
All auto manufacturers have raised prices! They have too. Labor unions squeezing, cost of raw materials, R&D, engineering… business is business no matter how you slice it. They are all trying to complete and survive. The landscape changes so fast these days the manufacturers are struggling to keep up and keep the prices on a gradual pace. As long consumers demand more and more technologies how can manufacturers keep prices in check? We/Us the consumers are the driving factors. Take the Toyota Tacoma for instance. Constant complaints against the old one. Archaic V6, hunting tranny, poor ride. So Toyota fixes it, the price goes up, and now everybody complains it’s too expensive!🤷♂️
Every vehicle I've owned has been a Dodge or Chrysler. All minivans except my very first car, a used 1987 Dodge Lancer. The number one reason I stuck with them is price. If you buy any Chrysler brand vehicle, you know there is going to be more maintenance needed than most other brands. Now Stellantis is trying to charge luxury brand prices for mediocre vehicles. That is their number one problem.
I agree Tommy…. Refreshes should be significant. We should be able to say yes i have a 2025 Ram or Jeep. Instead my 2019 Ram 1500 looks exactly like the 2025 Ram 1500…
Stellantis raised MSRPs 50% from 2018-2023 without increasing the quality or value. They can fall on their own sword.
Totally AGREE!
Facts
theyre not falling anywhere... do the math. raise the price 40% sell 25% less....
100k units at lets say 50k a piece = 500M
if you sell 25% less... now youve made 375M at the OLD price but if you raise the msrp 40%... and are producing less thus paying less ppl to make fewer trucks... you actually come out WAY ahead.
the suits are laughing collecting 20M dollar bonuses.
They significantly increased quality for their core products. The Jeep Grand Cherokee and Ram 1500. The time that the 3.6L and 5.7L have been in the product portfolio has increased their reliability metrics. I can instantly tell the difference in quality between the 2018 and 2023 models.
All manufacturers did the same! Toyota trucks pricing went through the roof.
Let us not forget the CEO making gobs of money for doing absolutely shit
Perhaps when Carlos Tavares interviewed with the Stellantis board he told them, "This is my MSRP but I have a long list of add-on's that you must pay me for as well or I won't take the job."
He did something. He ruined Jeep and Ram.
@@sprague49😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
You are pathetic! Calling out a guy you don't know and you have absolutely no clue what he does.... get a life
All executives in Netherlands got huge bonuses while he wants to layoff American employees so he further beef up those juicy bonuses
What Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/Ram really need is a new owner.
They have tried every owner there are out there. (That are willing to touch the company) Mercedes, Fiat, Peugeot. Only thing left is sell it to the chineese. (for the last 30 years it has been clear that no American owner wants to go all in) The problems goes deeper then the owners. Chrysler and dodge maybe should not exist any longer as car brands. Then focus on Jeep and Ram that have a global market.
Com'on Elon!!!!
Elon owns Tesla and could pay the carbon credits to himself.
Who wants to buy Chrysler 😂
Americans don't support them enough to be successful. Let them die.
@@KristoferOlssonYeah, I’m not sure how Chrysler can continue. The brand is one model, and it’s a freakin minivan.
Corporate greed. In 2023, Carlos Tavares, the CEO of Stellantis, received a total compensation package of $39.5 million, which was a 56% increase from 2022.
YEEEEESSSS!!! I 100% AGREE!!! I've been saying this for YEARS!!! All of these executives are making TOO MUCH money!!! Sorry... I'm really passionate about this.
This story has repeated itself way too many times now. Some incompetent bozo of a CEO drives a company nearly into the ground, then runs away with millions of dollars as normal folks lose their jobs and go on unemployment. Something has to give.
Tavares pay is well deserved; raping CDJR customers for record profits, soon moving manufacturing labor cost overseas. UAW now holds a contract that is worthless; way to go Motor Trend’s man of the year. Koolaid greed for the here and now, no one looking for basic long term solutions. RIP CDJR!
@@ericarntson2035must be a ‘Carlos Syndrome’ since Carlos Ghosn was the other one who did that to Nissan. Japan still trying to prosecute him.
Won’t be long before America tries to prosecute the Stellantis Carlos.
@@donkedic1 well nissan did good under ghosn unlike now, it was more like the japanese board was jelous so they kicked him out.
People don’t want Wranglers to look any different, just keep prices down
BINGO! FINALLY! Someone gets it!!! That comment is the formula for SUCCESS for the Jeep Wrangler! Just let people customize their own Jeep through the dealer website and once ready, 💥BOOM!💥 They can come and pick it up! Just DON'T change the design! AND bring the prices back under 40k! Where they belong!
50% price increase despite inflation being at around 22% since the pandemic is inexcusable for Stellantis.
Yep you're correct and a handful of other brands have some similar price increases.
You are right but inflation isn't that high. 3.4%. But companies CEOs are price gouging everyone and calling it inflation.
@lx5xk Please, give us your opinion.
@@RottingboardsThe government's fake inflation number of 3.4% is meaningless to consumers. The real inflation number is way higher than 3.4%.
Agree
The European executives at Stellantis are completely out of touch with traditional Mopar buyers.
Seriously, selling fewer than 2,000 Dodge Hornets per month will not offset the loss of Charger and Challenger sales.
By the way, the Dodge Hornet is built in the Southern Italian city of Naples.
Problem is Dodge and Chrysler do not sell outside north america. They need to change that or the brands will die. Like many other brands.
Yep this is the downfall of stellantis, Having European leadership. They need to have someone from within the US to run it.
@@fahdabdulaziz5067 That will not happen when Europeans controll the shares of the company.
It was hard to fit the ICE Charger and Challenger within CAFE though. Weren't Dodge paying $200m p/a in CAFE fines for those vehicles? You can sell 'some' big V8 cars (as BMW, Mercedes, Maserati etc do) but you need to sell a lot of smaller more economical cars to offset that and get your CAFE MPG average where it needs to be. Yet Stellantis cancelled their smaller economy cars like the Dodge Dart and Chrysler 200 in USA and Canada. The SUV/light truck segment is a little easier with its higher MPG allowance.
garbagio
I think it's pricing, my local Ford dealership has been ordering a lot single cab 5.0 f150 XL trim level selling them at $38k and they can't keep them in stock, maybe it's just in my area but the $70 plus trim level trucks are just sitting on the lot now.
Lot Rot lawn ornaments
They also need to work on their quality and reliability
In March of 2019 I purchased a Ram 1500 etorque V6 with several options. The truck was built in Sterling Heights, Michigan in November 2018. I received almost $13K in incentives. The OTD price with tax, title, license etc. was $41K even. It has been trouble free. I really love the truck. I think any vehicle built before the Covid fiasco was a bargain. I will keep this truck until it dies
Yeah that's when we were building them top notch 👍👍
Mopar is the story of engines.
The Hemi renaissance saved them in the 00s
The pentastar saved them in the teens.
They need hurricane and electrification in 20s
V6 for 41k in 2019? You over paid. I got my hemi rebel in 19 for 45 otd
Can you get to 70 mph with that weak v6🤔🤣🤣🤣
The biggest problem for stellantis is that the 2019+ trucks just run so well and last so long I don't need to but a new one anytime soon. my 2019 6.4 has been a dream with 140k on it now
In 10 minutes I’m driving my 22 Grand Cherokee bought new. It has 22k miles. At 8k new engine mounts, trans mounts, door panels, rear gate panel. GPS glitches. Today goes for oil and tire rotation plus check on why front speakers aren’t working!! To JEEP, normal.
Sounds like you have bad luck.
@tommy516 no. Normal FCA reliability. I owned a ram and it had a transmission, constant headlights going out, door locks, weeped coolant, and so much squeeking trim.
@@grahamstefaan I have a 22 Gladiator Mojave, with about 18k miles on it. Drive it mostly shorter distances but have done a couple road trips, have had absolutely ZERO issues and it gets remote started and ran for sometime excessive periods of time. Are you saying I’m the lucky one?
I’ve got a 2019 Cherokee 3.2 and a 2019 Durango 5.7 in my household. Cherokee has 45K trouble free miles and the Durango just had its first repair at 67K miles and it was the ac condenser. And I just changed the rear brakes, front is original and I’m not easy on them. I don’t think they’re all bad
You definitely got unlucky with your purchase. I own a 22 GW and I have put around 65k on it now, flawless.
Ram and Jeep don’t need redesign they need to fix pricing
But all manufactors are roughly the same price and I'll will pay more for a ram than a chevy or ford
It's those failing electric cars and the big union raises they receive they expect us to pay for it all
@joshsteward1488 the problem with your line of thinking is that very few people consider RAM a quality product. It's always been the discount product.
RAM has done this throughout it's history, they are always last to innovate, when they finally do, they have a surge in sales for a few years, then the public remembers, RAMs are terrible products, you only buy one if you can't afford a better truck. Add the ridiculous price RAM wants, and the majority are going to GM and Ford.
@terrencejones9817 I switched to Ram in 2005 after having issues with GM. I'm on my 4th truck. The previous three I put right at 200k on each truck with no issues. They have all been super dependable and solid.
@coreysmith2774 That's great. Unfortunately That's no the experience with the vast majority of customers. Myself ,being a 25-year automotive industry professional, my opinion is that they are sub-par products. It shows in other areas, the resale sucks, they always have the highest discount, the largest number of recalls too. Chrysler and it's parent companies have gone bankrupt 3 times now. They do not build good products.
I feel like Jeep, Ram, Dodge is trying too hard to be a luxury brands and forgetting where they started and who their core customers are. Yeah they should have some fancy trims available but need to get back to what made them great before.
If anyone thinks it’s because of those “darn UAW workers”. Just remember, GM Mexico(makes the majority of the 1500 trucks) pays their workers $9-$33 per DAY. Their prices aren’t much better, and have still gone up way beyond “inflation”.
no the prices haven't outpaced inflation. Google is easy to use
@@davidporter7051 the price increases on the bronco raptor, ram TRX, and ram limited, have gone up 20k each since 21/22. In that same time inflation has gone up 15.9% and 7.3% respectively. Those increases are each above 20%. In 21 I bought an f150 xlt sport new, sticker was $53k. I went and looked at an identical 24 model, $66k. No discounts applied to either in these figures. Again, a 20% increase. Yes, google is easy to use.
That’s a lot in Mexico tho
Nope. The Saltillo plant only makes all the Heavy Duty trucks. To my knowledge, ALL Ram 1500s come out of Sterling Heights MI
@@henrynlouisville1 im not sure what ram produces down there, I know GM does a ton though.
You cannot change the Wrangler. Just ask Porsche what happened to their sales when they changed the way the 911 looked. Their sales plummeted. Also, Mercedes knows this as well with their G wagon. It has to stay the same. It is an iconic look.
FCA is in its current predicament because of the late Sergio Marchionne. He gutted Dodge by making Ram amd moving the commercial vehicles over, killed the Journey instead of redesigning it, moved the minivan over to what is supposed to be the luxury brand (my guess to make room for Alfa Romeo), and then left Chrysler with nothing but a minivan left. Long story short, he made a complete mess out of the three Auburn Hills brand and now Stellantis is left with four brands with no identity anymore (maybe except Jeep). Marchionne didn't know what the hell he was doing here.
I’m a living example…… tried to replace my 08 Wrangler w/293k miles. Internet spec’d a 24 4dr Wrangler Willys @ MSRP @ about$48k. No dealer would order…. wanted me to take an off the lot….. all $60-65k….. even $5k off not what I was willing to spend.
Ordered a 24 Bronco MSRP $49k….. delivered in 10 weeks; paid $47k….. miss my Jeep. But not that much.
I said it a long time ago I work at Jeep call their vehicles are way too expensive they forgot who they building these vehicles for the common work folks we can't afford 70, 80 100,000 vehicles
I work for Jeep and I can't even afford a Jeep Wrangler can I build a Jeep Wrangler. These vehicles are way too expensive especially for the poor quality. This is why I recommend people buy Toyota or Honda if you want good quality built vehicles. The problem is not the way we build them is the quality of material in the rush in demand that they don't care about the quality that we put into these vehicles just rush them off the line. I really need to get back to investing in quality vehicles at stellantis can lowering the price of these vehicles so the everyday worker who doesn't make six figures can afford these vehicles
I want a Gladiator, but the purchase price is way too much. Even used ones are 30k plus with 80k+ miles. But vehicles in general are too high. I'm a blue-collar worker with decent wages, but inflation and cost of living make these vehicles unobtainable. What's worse, dealerships want to only give you half the value for your trade in so it's a lose/ lose. I'm not up side down on my vehicles, but don't wish to through money away that I see dealers mark up your trade in. Expecting to make 5k+ on each vehicle they sell. A change needs to happen.
Go buy a plain Jane honda and toyotas that are absolutely hideous, toyatos quality is terrible look it up, these companies have no tech or anything in them, boring to me, and I'll never support foreign vehicles
Toyota sucks now too. Look at the new tacoma. Its a joke
You should learn how to write properly before you post.
This is why I recommend Toyota and Honda ..I hope you get permanently laid off.
They’ve been in trouble for years. Insolvency is looking realistic
🤣🤣🤣 clueless
Very clueless lol. Stellantis has one of the best P/E ratios and tons of extra cash on hand.
Stellantis muss nur am Preis- Qualität Verhältnis arbeiten um die Nr. 1 zu sein / werden .
Dazu müssen Sie die Probleme schnellstens lösen .
Their vehicle engines are leaking and shutting down or blowing up and you are absolutely correct about the vehicles being to expensive. The upside for the American buyers is that our government representatives do not nor should help to bail Stellantis out especially since has proudly stated that CDJR is no longer an American company and every company that has been sold to a business outside of the USA has been either been destroyed or product and services has diminished greatly. As long as planned obsolescence is the mentality for auto manufacturers, it is going to get worse for them all. The downside to this is the lost of American jobs again and the possibly the end of one or more iconic American made vehicles unless something changes drastically.
I've always said when a foreign person buys an American company he or she screwed the hell out of the company. Since the person is pushing foreign things into the American company. I've always said that foreign people do not know what Americans like instead they build things what the foreign person likes and sells it in America. At some point I hope nobody bails Stellantis out if they go under because they do not deserve to be bailed out the head guy is screwing what Chrysler Jeep Dodge Ram are.
The universal "the engines are bad" complaint in every car video lol. Chrysler engines are just fine. I would say it's the one area where they actually excel still compared to the other manufacturers.
You must drive the new Toyota trucks.
Their prices just aren't competitive anymore. A base Jeep Grand Cherokee laredo is $65,000 CAD, and a fully loaded Ford Explorer timberline is $54,000 CAD.
Good riddance. Jeep raised there prices so much
How will they pay the UAW wages which have increased so much?
Lol...their no good.
@@derrickschultz6871you obviously don’t own one
Every thing and everywhere, race prizes because of inflation.
Yeah they kinda dug their grave on this one, and it saddens me cause I love me a good challenger, charger etc.
All good points, but you hit the nail on the head... For the masses to move, the needle pricing has to come down to 2019 pricing and give the option of less tech less safety tech... America is tapped out and needs cool styling in the $40,000 price range... If they don't make these changes quickly, China will make them for them....
The only thing Ram had going good for them was their V8 power plant.
Add the Cummins diesel inline-6.
You mean the lifter eating manifold bolt breaking early 2000’s v8? Why would a company keep paying emissions fines (i.e. buy credits from Tesla) for an outdated engine? Btw I daily drive a 1500 with the 5.7 Hemi. If the hurricane is even moderately reliable it would be a step up- all its power and MPG specs already beat the hemi.
It wasnt that great. The Cummins is there only good selling point (and its not even made by them)
@@Lq32332yes, they should have kept the hemi. It was popular, cheap to manufacture and it was profitable despite having to pay the climate mafia for carbon penalties.
@Lq32332 multiple people have already proven the hurricane engine gets the same and sometimes worse mpg then the 5.7
Wagoneer/GW landing on rental lots is not a positive. Fleets would be a buyer of last resort. They are dumping them.
I’m somewhat surprised the 3.0 Hurricane hasn’t made it to the Wrangler lineup yet. The Jeep branded products started their price increases before the pandemic. At one time we could buy a fully loaded Grand Cherokee for $45k-$55k sticker price. Overnight they became $55k-$65k + for the same vehicles.
Supposedly in 25 on the gladiator
It won't happen because the inline-6 is too long to fit the frame. It would take an all new frame and longer body.
You think that straight 6 will fit under the hood? If it was a v6 I think it would be in the Wrangler already but that's a long engine.
@@Kahless00 there are about fifty YT videos claiming we are getting three new powertrains for 25 on the gladiator. The hurricane TT, a new single turbo and the 4XE. Who knows, guess we’ll find out in September
@@jfletcher4949 if the Gladiator is selling so poorly, I see a lot of them to be honest; why not make it more competitive with all the other small trucks out there?
The issue with the Grand Cherokee from what I'm reading on one of the Facebook groups is that it is having a lot of electrical issues. That and the look of the WL platform is polarizing for some people who preferred the older WK2. For the record, I have a 2015 GC Summit. They are supposedly refreshing the Grand Cherokee for 2025 but also putting in a new turbocharged four cylinder and this is apparently pissing people off also.
This is what happens when you to way to much "targeting" one to three customer groups ... there are only so many $55K to $75K truck customers ... there are only so many public sector customers like law enforcement ... and there are only so many performance car customers out there to sell to. In Mexico they market a dynamite small truck called the 700 in both 2 door an 4 door models ... all reasonably priced. Don't care what business you're in, you have to have cheaper models as well as expensive models to meet demand.
The small are cheap because the don't have to pass crash standards and air bag standards.... duh
Of course, all comments are cathartic since few of them get read, so itis an exercise in futility. However my 2013 Wrangler is getting tired after 200K miles and I was looking into replacing it with another Wrangler but the prices are completely out of sight. I have a sport 2 door with basically only an automatic and air , no fancy anything, basic. No electronic door locks, nothing, basic. That's all I want. New Wranglers on the lot are always 15K more than I want to spend, it makes Subaru and Bronco Sport, or the Maverick all look good by comparison. Sure, they are not a Wrangler, but let's face it, 99% of stuff is on regular roads or mild truck roads or "trails" at least for most people. MY driving includes forest roads, often poorly maintained, and seasonal roads, also poorly maintained.
I have stock everything and the jeep never let me down. Even when a sidewall got cut and blew a tire in a rocky uphill wet rood, it jsut kept going until the top where I put the spare on. Also people, grease the spare lug nuts, the shitty tire holder did not hold the stud and ripped out with the lug nut attaches AND you could NOT separate the lug nut from the stud on the spare, it had a washer on the other side if the spare that could not be removed and the lug nut was stuck. Fortunately for me a a guy living in the middle of nowhere was right there living secluded and he had tools for the issue. That jeep was not stopped even with only 3 wheels going up a slippery wet hill.
BUT they are too expensive now. Way too much. We are talking about a basic, simple, harsh-riding Wrangler, no frills. Should be available on the lots and if they were, they would sell for sure. Who wants luxury in the woods with branches and rocks bouncing off the vehicle? It IS GOING TO GET damaged, and that's the point, it SHOULD get bangs and scratches and you should not really care about that. That is called character, not a scratch, not a dent, character.
You guys didn't mention the most important part of this equation which is how much net profit is Stellantis making? I remember during Covid Calos Tavares (and other CEOs) were loving the low inventory and high price sales and he said they would never go back to high inventory and low margins, maybe this is all part of their plan?
Spot on
Manufacturers still count vehicles as sold when they are bought buy dealers, not customers.
You guys need to look at some local news at Detroit. Stilantis’ CEO just came in and said that they were going cut costs by 30%. And they just took the ram plant in Warren down to one shift
I heard that that's ridiculous. This is what happens when a foreign company buys an American company. They screw the hell out of it.
The ram plant is NOT down to one shift. I think you are confusing Warren Truck (Wagoneer & Classic Ram ending in a few months) and Sterling Heights (New Ram). Additionally, a new plant in Mexico will start building Ram 1500's next year...alongside the HD's that have been built there for years.
WTAP unfortunately is on a 1 shift pattern for the month of July. SHAP is still on a 3 shift pattern. Make no mistake about what’s going on WTAP they need product allocation immediately. The Ram Classic production is officially done in the 3 quarter. Nothing has been announced or allocated to WTAP. It definitely makes sense for WTAP to pickup SHAP overflow or the allocation of New Ram Dakota but we’re dealing with Stellantis here.
Had 4 mopars in my time. 1994 jeep grand Cherokee V8, 1997 dodge ram 1500 5.9, 2006 dodge night runner w/ hemi, and 2010 challenger R/T. I actually really liked all of them, even though they weren’t perfect. What keeps me from buying any more mopar products isn’t their quality, it’s their dealerships. Obviously their prices are extremely high right now and totally nonsense, they need to come down quite a bit. Even then, though, I don’t think I could foresee myself buying another dodge/chrysler/jeep even though I really, really enjoyed their vehicles, simply because I have never(no matter what state I was living in at the time) been able to get their dealerships to fix any issues correctly the first time I brought any of my vehicles in. Remember folks, driving the car off the lot and loving it is only part of ownership. If the company won’t ever service or repair your car under warranty, the warranty is meaningless.
My 1990 yj keeps on running 👍
Dealership near me has had like 8+ challengers on the lot for at least the last 8 months, all $50k+ and most being the boring V8. They also have to have about 20+ jeeps that have been sitting for 5+ months
I really wanted to get another Wrangler, but after seeing the prices compared to what I paid just 10 years ago and the reliability data, I went with the Ford instead.
Aren't the Broncos just as overpriced as the Jeeps? Genuine question, I haven't been keeping up on how much dealers are charging for these things these days.
Maybe they can start offering serious loyalty incentives for brand owners along with those discounts. Honestly I don't know how else they can save this company. I don't see other brand owners jumping into Stelantis products.
They lost their ways. I graduated from college in the 80's. Chrysler was the brand that an entry buyer could afford and they catered to this crowd and they were able to offer good cheap products. Now they sre insane. I am heading into retirement and looking for a new vehicle and i cannot afford anything they have to offer.
Whos fault is it? 30K MSRP for a jeep, but dealer add ons raise price to 30K ......now that Jeep costs 60K......... Who decides this? Dealer, manufacturer???
The market. How much is a Miata RF now? FOURTY TWO THOUSAND!!!
Dealers can only sell cars for what people are willing to pay. IT'S THE CONSUMERS' FAULT, JACKASS.
*for their poorly built out of warranty cars, the prices should be a lot cheaper, just remember how fast their cars rust !!!*
Tell us
I haven't seen any major rust on many (for the time) new FCA vehicles for the past 10 to 12 years.
@@xanitrucker9946 funny thing is, I have little rust spots around the rear badging on my otherwise perfect 19 Toyota Sequoia.
Lololol you fool Toyota rusts the fastest
It's not the late 90s and early 00s. The cars are actually pretty good. The issue is that PSA is financing the acquisition of FCA with the North American market. The dramatic price increases happened right after the merger
I've owned a modern Dodge Charger RT. It was a nightmare of electrical issues. I loved how it drove, but after 6 trips to the dealer for failing electrical gremlins, I dumped the damn thing. It's amazing to me that modern car makers cannot figure out reliability. It's ridiculous. And of course, the greedflation on top of the reliability?! Give me a break. I feel bad for the workers, but these types of companies should fail if they can't make reliable, reasonably priced vehicles.
Every manufactor is going to have issues, it's part of mass producing anymore I rather have electrical issues than motors blowing up and trannies going out like Chevy and ford
The bad thing is most of the computer and electrical parts are made outside the US
I own a 21’ Wrangler 392 & a 23’ 300 C also w/ the 392. I love that engine and everything that jeep has stood for. However, you can def see and feel a disconnect between management and the product. There just isn’t any love in the vehicles. No attention to detail, just churning them out. Sad that an American Iconic company’s heritage is being plundered for $. I won’t buy any more Stelantis products.
Looked into a ram, 57k MSRP, dealer marked it down to 43k. I called for a quote, back up to 51k. Asked if they would take 40k out the door and they said no. MSRP is currently back up to 57k 😂 clown world
I bought a 2023 Challenger last month because of the $10k discount on them. The dealerships are getting rid of their 2023's, so the beginning of June and July between Stillantis and the local dealerships, 10k off was a pretty good deal.
I have a 2016 Jeep Wrangler JK 2-door. My transmission is starting to go, I'll be paying to get that fixed as opposed to getting rid of it and buying a new one. The prices are just ridiculous for new jeeps
Your should consider a Tacoma or frontier. I got a pro4x solid excellent little truck.
@@thetrollwhoknows9928 when I absolutely have to get rid of it, I'll probably get a 4Runner or a Tacoma.
@@thetrollwhoknows9928
to be honest, I overlooked it. I had 2 Xterra's and both were trouble free. That's a very good suggestion
Looking forward to TFL testing the Ramcharger! But, it's so far out there still.... I can't be the only one waiting to see. Add to that the 'don't buy in the first year' mantra, especially with something all new like that (and the all electric), and now your sales uptick is way out in 27/28?
That Viper must have been a showroom floor queen that they finally decided to clear out. I wonder what the selling price was.
I just noticed that to and very likely was. Not sure if it was a classic 1st gen, some SRT-10 or any remaining end production models. Either way, it likely was a showroom queen with likely the owner as its driver time to time.
They stop making it because it didn't meet new safety measures and the costs to engineer a new platform was to costly at the time. They actually sold all Vipers making a profit especially the 1 offs ACRs. It's was built for status quo and still the fastest 6 speed manual around the track.
@@JohnnyLightningV10 Yes, we all understand that... we are wondering why a car last built in 2017 was on the new car sales numbers.
@@GetOffMyyLawn I think you probably have the right of it. Some collector finally made an offer the dealer couldn't refuse and they let go of it for some absurd price I'd wager.
I was a Ram & Jeep guy for years. My 2004 JGC Limited was $38,000 fully loaded. Now that same truck same equipment is $68,000!!!
$38,000 in 2004 dollars is $64,000 in 2024 dollars. So really they barely raised the price at all and you just don’t understand inflation? 😂
Chevy and ford's are the same way
Jeep 4xE at $70k and then after the electricity runs out, you get the same mileage as a normal Wrangler... If I she'll out more money up front, I need real gas savings.
I tried buying a second Jeep wrangler JLUR to replace by JKUR but the price to feature/amenities was a big miss. Their pricing model was ridiculous for what you get. I moved to a different manufacturer and to a truck.
Tommy, as someone who’s you age, drives a wrangler and is also a big Jeep guy, please keep speaking up!!! Jeep being owned by a European company will continue to be its biggest downfall. The brand (as well as dodge and ram) have lost touch completely, as you mentioned with the V8 charger/challengers. I fear that they’re trying to make it a luxury soccer mom brand, instead of keeping true to its roots which is a literal military vehicle. As you always say, it needs to be cheaper, more in touch with American values, and more fun. Theres nothing fun about the new Grand Cherokee. It can’t off-road like the last generation, and there will never be another Trackhawk. Please keep speaking up Tommy🫡
Just my opinion, but as a 2018 GC owner, the GC sales may be down partially because the refresh is rather ugly. I am looking forward to the Ramcharger.
Here in Central Texas I’ve been seeing ads for deep discounts on Stellantis trucks. 10k off Gladiators, 15k off 2500 RAMs. Still expensive, but the dealers are trying
Stalantis is going to end up a much smaller company. They want to sell at ultra luxury car prices then they'll produce ultra luxury car volume. Good luck to all those in the Stellantis assembly lines. They're going to need it
This is only true for the US market. Stellantis has lots of cheep affordable cars sold in rest of the world.
8,000,000 millionaires are the target of car companies. I'm not one of those 8M ppl. It's financial destruction for me to even buy a new Colorado let alone an off road Sierra. $700/month for 72 months isn't happening.
I'm a ford truck man, but I have an old jeep tj, and love the looks of the gladiators. Would totally buy one today, or this week. But what they're asking is crazy for what you're getting. Bare bones sport is like 40k after tt&l. And the new hurricane 6, I love me a straight 6, and the looks of the new dodges, but they don't have an oil dipstick.
One of the biggest reasons for Charger and Challenger sales improvement is the "Horsepower locator" BS they did for the 23 model years.
I was very tempted to get a 23 Hellcat Charger to replace my 21 Widebody Scat Pack. However, I couldn't get an allocation at the dealership And wanted. FCA limited to the dealerships they chose, instead. So if I wanted one, I would have had to pay markup (of a highly inflated sticker compared to 21 - they raised prices over $10k!!!) instead of invoice at my preferred dealership.
Now, what happened was all of these dealerships didn't get customer orders, they ordered what they wanted to build, and asked for ridiculous markups. So the cars sat on lots. Now, after being on the lots for months or more, the dealerships are FINALLY offering better prices, including discounts.
They're still equipped like monkeys ordered them, but they're available and the prices are ok for cars with options people don't care for and no options people want.
(There are no Sinamon Stick hellcats anywhere new, but you can find plenty of black or white ones!)
I like the Hornet but you're right the prices are ridiculous.
I think there's another thread that not a lot of people are noticing. Parts and service. These days, execs love to boast to shareholders about parts and service income. It's far more reliable and consistent than sales. If you look around, nearly all the companies have high-strung, service queen performance cars. Prime examples being Lamborghini and Bugatti for VW, the AMG One for Mercedes, the Ford GT, The C8 for GM, nearly every single BMW product. Meanwhile a Hellcat or Scat Pack owner is paying more in insurance than they are in service and parts. The Viper driver is paying more in gas than they are service and parts. That's customer's money that isn't going to shareholder's pockets. Paradoxically, the best traits of Mopar have come back to bite them when the earnings report comes around. It reminds me of AMC running into trouble, despite them producing reliable cars with great value.
Don’t know what they were thinking with the cost of living increasing, people can’t afford the new vehicle prices.
jeep better "get their ducks in a row" and not just on the dash boards
😂
Prices! When dealers were adding " Market ADJUSTMENTS," you chased most of your base away! Throw In ridiculous finance rates, and you killed your customers!
Wonder if direct to consumer sales would positively impact car companies who make a move to this structure in vehicle sales. This would probably eliminate the "middle man (aka:dealer & salesmen)" who generally hike up prices with sticker mark-ups, sales commissions based on how well you could stick it to the customer, and unnecessary or unrequested add-ons. Ultimately providing cars/trucks for consumers to buy packaged as they like or can afford, while driving up sales for the car companies.
119% wagoneer sales increase but the number of units is small.
All Ram and Jeep pricimg is out of control. Ram used to cost less than the other truck brands.
As stated there needs to be a price correction. They are charging bmw-Mercedes pricing while having high interest rates. At these prices people will hold vehicles longer and they will lose repeat business. As for dodge and ram people want the proven v8 especially as they are having issues with the new v6. They should at least offer both engines until the v6 is proven. People buy ram and dodge for the hemi
I love Stallantis. Bought a Rubicon eco-diesel gladiator for 20,000 below msrp end of last year. $74,000 truck for $54,000 dream comes true worth every penny great deal and beyond words can compare in amazing truck
I don't know to many people who can afford the grand wagoneer when they start at $100,000...
Charger and Challenger were not selling well. They had upwards of $12k in rebates on R/T to move them. They essentially forced dealers to put them into loaner fleets to collect an additional $3-4500 a piece. Another thing is many dealers likely reported them sold to…themselves to sell as used cars. They stripped away a lot of incentive support.
Andre,
I know yall have to be nice to the manufacturers...but we don't. The Hemi V-8 wasn't "kinda core" to customers, it was a big f***** deal. I was in high school when the third gen Hemi Rams really took off. You effectively didn't even have a Ram at the time unless it was a Hemi or Cummins. Stellantis deciding to kill the Hemi and replace it with that already problematic I-6 didn't help them at all, and probably moved folks to Ford or Chevy which still offer V-8 options.
I guess I must be an anomaly. I don't care as much about the outside as I do about functionality, especially when it comes to HD trucks. Been doing the online build for GM, Ford, & Ram 1-ton, 4x4, reg cab, big gas V8 (easier cold start) - aka plow truck. (I'd love diesel but just can't justify.) It's interesting (read highly suspect, as in organized price fixing) that they are all within $1k-$2k around $56k. Yet when looking at dealer inventory, every truck in stock is overloaded with every option you could imagine including the computer-controlled, electronic toothbrush charger. Stuff I don't want or need that (1) reduces cargo & towing capacities, (2) adds complexity & (3) drives pricing well north of $70k for gas & $90k for dsl. No thank you.
Off topic but I’m watching gun smoke 💨 with my dad and there is a character in this episode that looks exactly like Tommy.
FCA/Stellantis have been using the old tactic of padding their sales figures by selling cars to their detailers and or forcing them with incentives to take them off their hands. Go over the days on lot and supply. Not only do they charge too much, but other than their initial quality they've always had huge issues and also a horrible dealer experience.
I was at a Dodge dealership seeing about my '22 Challenger and they had a mid-trim, skelotonized Jeep, not even a Rubicon and wanted as much for it as I paid for my Shake-down edition Scat Pack. That's just nuts.
The numbers here look better than the RUclipsrs showing 2022, 2023, 2024 New trucks available. Up to 2 years worth of trucks in inventory. So, it looks like FCA is just supplementing to commercial sales to get rid of them? IDK. I am a Mopar guy since day one, but, I am very concerned there will be a FCA when I need another one.
For giggles, i played around with the 2022 sales numbers of these groups. One glaring number i managed crunch was:
If u take out sales of toyota group products from China, Europe and north america in 2023, their sales wudve dropped from 10.5mill to ~6mill++…
Which is more or less the same for the entirety of Stellantis.
How pathetic can stellantis be? A conglomerate of 15 or so brands, could only equalize with the largest automotive group if u remove them of their major markets. Toyota group only has 4 brands under them btw (toyota, lexus, daihatsu, hino), of which only 2 are available in the US.
Agreed. With Stellantis it's all the same old stuff. Refreshed perhaps but you are correct. People want new things. Think about the old days. September or October, all the hype. The new cars are coming. Bang.... all the car companies come out with new cars. Stellantis is making a major mistake with the new Charger. You show us, you tease us, there's excitement but there's no cars for sale. Seems like they are making the same mistakes the Daimler Chrysler folks did the with Challenger early on. Showed us, showed us, teased us.... years later it's on sale. Thankfully there was still some interest. The old days, a new car launches and guess what.... CARS are on the showroom floor. Maybe just a handful but some ready to get into the hands of the public.
Dodge has major issues. The only reason why they are selling the 2500 fleets are bc they are giving a bunch of rebates
TFL, I commute 86 miles 6 days a week here in Socal and I rarely see the two Wagoneer.
No bailouts.
7 ProMaster City have been sold this year 😮 I suppose they were discontinued as the Vauxhall Combo/ Fiat version are now Citroen Berlingo vans. I wonder if FCA will bring the Citroen Berlingo stateside.
RAM prices went way too high the past few years and many dealers still have 2023 and 2024 models on the lots. Dealers aren't as aggressive as they should on 2023 and 2024 to move them. I have tried looking into buying either year discounts aren't great.
RAM and Jeep are trying to get rid of the regular cab 2 door models. This is another reason why sales are down.
I feel for the workers, but company is killing itself!!
I know realize that the Hemis were costing so much more because of emissions and mileage shortfalls. Ok. But, to suddenly drop those engines period? I think they completely killed their truck sales. Sad thing is; they could have saved they’re V8s buy going to a different design. Why hasn’t RAM gone to an all aluminum body? It’s been known for years that they tend to rust. Jeep? I looked at a brand mid-range gladiator. It was interesting with a 6 speed manual. Will, I priced a 2019 (new) 2019 F-150 XLT super cab4x4 5.0L V8. It was$11,000. Of course I bought the F-150. My point? Jeep and RAM for several years way over pricing their products and they’re no where worth the price. Becoming part of FIAT didn’t help.
FCA LLC is a company owned by stellantis. In Italy for example we have FCA group s.p.a.
Aside from being priced too high, they need to stop pushing 4XE models. Our local Jeep dealer seems to only have 4XE models - not what people actually want.
I would say visual changes at the current prices would help but I think the value American vehicles used to bring to Americans is harder to find.
When all you make are vehicles with poor reliability reputations that are either extremely old designs or insanely overpriced compared to their competition, what else can one expect?
Jeeps are great vehicles that have some amazing features that you won’t find on any other manufacturer’s vehicles. The simplest? The next and last/volume buttons on the back of the steering wheel. Way more useful than paddle shifters on a car with a CVT..Toyota and Subaru.
It's not about visual changes. It's about price and quality.
I nearly got a Wrangler 4xe. I rent them constantly for work. I don't think they're great vehicles, but I think they're technically cool and I enjoy them. The PHEV software in the Hornet and Wrangler is almost identical, I like that they're doing standardization in places where it makes sense.
I think they are absolutely awesome ans great, attention to detail in them is fantastic, we have one now and I will.never buy anything else
Stellantis REALLY needs to start listening to their customers. Keep the v8's in the Charger and Challenger = no. Add a V8 to the Gladiator = no. Bring back the Dakota = No. Offer a trucklet to fight the Maverick = No. $75K+ Bighorns = Yes 🙄
The problem with ultra-high MSRP prices that you guys don't mention nor have I heard anyone else mention is that because of the sky high MSRP prices compared to GM and Ford is that potential customers don't even bother to go into a Jeep or RAM dealership. That means that the total amount of rebates and discounts (cash on the hood) are not even known to the prospective buyer. Prior to 2020 you would see dealerships advertising truck and SUV rebates from the factory big and bold on their TV advertising. GM dealers are now back to advertising the factory rebates big time and to a lesser degree so is Ford. But NOT RAM and Jeep! I suspect that is because the RAM and Jeep marketing is not letting their dealers do advertise the factory rebates. Dealers know that this gets potential customers in the door. Apparently RAM and JEEP sales/marketing doesn't realize that if you can't get a potential customer in the dealership door you won't sell them a new truck/SUV.
There is rebates lol and they are advertising it
New flash EV's aren't sealing either. So that's not goin' to save 'em. IMO part of the problem is with powertrain selections. Not everyone wants a PHEV or for that matter afford one. Why not a normal hybrid as an option as well? The 2.0L turbo 4 is OK for the Wrangler base engine, the PentaStar sorry but that's gotta go. Can the Hurricane fit in the Wrangler? The 392 well we all knew that was going to be a limited run. The 3'0L in the Ram has good power but really should've been more like 3.5L like the Ecoboost. The displacement is small and making +500HP makes me question long term durability. Will you see an HO Hurrican w/ +250K miles?
Also talk about...a business gets a write-off in taxes, business gets a better price from the dealer. The average Joe gets to pay full price.
A dealer can only sell for what customers are willing to pay. If you pay more than a business for one vehicle congratulations, you're an Idiot.
As a former Ram truck owner, i was absolutely disgusted when i tried to purchase one in April of this year. Now the Hemi trucks are gone, and they just gave the big middle finger to most of the die hard Ram owners.
So much of the unaffordabillty of these vehicles has to do with the dealers. Most only stock premium trims and then stacking on $4k worth of undercoatings and paint protection garbage. Most won’t allow ordering a more affordable trim or one configured with what you ACTUALLY need on it. The manufacturers may as well remove the configurators from their websites because zero chance of you getting the opportunity to actually build and order what you want.
Definitely a price problem. People can't afford groceries these days, let alone a $100k suv for their kids to trash.
These car companies definitely are a huge part of the hyper-inflation problem. It all goes back to this ridiculous push towards EV.
Consumers will ALWAYS pay for it. Regardless of whether they buy one or not. Money just gets moved around.
Side note: I don't think anyone other than journalists want to drive an electric Challenger either.
All auto manufacturers have raised prices! They have too. Labor unions squeezing, cost of raw materials, R&D, engineering… business is business no matter how you slice it. They are all trying to complete and survive. The landscape changes so fast these days the manufacturers are struggling to keep up and keep the prices on a gradual pace. As long consumers demand more and more technologies how can manufacturers keep prices in check?
We/Us the consumers are the driving factors.
Take the Toyota Tacoma for instance. Constant complaints against the old one.
Archaic V6, hunting tranny, poor ride. So Toyota fixes it, the price goes up, and now everybody complains it’s too expensive!🤷♂️
Every vehicle I've owned has been a Dodge or Chrysler. All minivans except my very first car, a used 1987 Dodge Lancer. The number one reason I stuck with them is price. If you buy any Chrysler brand vehicle, you know there is going to be more maintenance needed than most other brands. Now Stellantis is trying to charge luxury brand prices for mediocre vehicles. That is their number one problem.
I agree Tommy…. Refreshes should be significant. We should be able to say yes i have a 2025 Ram or Jeep. Instead my 2019 Ram 1500 looks exactly like the 2025 Ram 1500…