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If he thinks it shouldn't be done till 26 "because the brain is not fully formed", the I assume he is arguing for the min military service age, smoking age, drinking age, marriage age all raised to 26 as well then? Of course he's not.
@@mikelwrites If I remember correctly, it's because the brain was shown to still be developing at the age of 25, but the study ran out of money and had to conclude. It's likely that the brain continues to develop far past that age.
4:00 This reminds me of my mother still saying my sister is not a lesbian, she's just going through a phase. She is 40 years old this year, and she's been married to a wonderful woman for 16 years now... that's not a phase and that's not being led astray.
The only phase is middle(ish) age and whatever reaching 20 years of marriage is. Silver anniversary, I think? Regardless, congratulations to your sister on a long and happy marriage :)
"God doesn't make mistakes...except when it's convenient for me to get something fixed...'cuz god is really flexible that way when it comes to what I want."
Turek: No consent for operations under the age of 26. But you can marry, get children etc before that age? hmm strange how consent works according to him....
It all comes from fear if trans person starts too early person can blend in easier and if they make us wait they will ensure we'll be visible. They fear stealth trans people.
Exactly. Recall how hard republicans have fought to preserve the right to effectively legally acquire a minor. A child has NO rights in that scenario! They cannot refuse nor get a divorce. He doesn't give a sh!t about protecting children!
In some states the age for marriage has dropped to 12, and kids can work at 10 years old in them as well. I think we need to push the ages back to 26 to match the development of the brain.
I had gynaecomastia too and had breast reduction surgery when I was 18. I am a cis male and this procedure is ABSOLUTELY gender-affirming. This man is a piece of sh!t.
I was starting to have "gynecomastia" after starting Estrogen and I was THRILLED. totally not a gender thing. I love this example since it shows so well how trans people feel in their bodies
Idk, I've been rocking moobs since high school and I never felt the need for gender affirmation so I don't get it. How I do get it is seeing muscles on my body that equate to how strong I feel and make people realize that I can, in fact, bench press their moms. It's my go-to example for why ignoring a trans person's presented gender is a dick move, I tell people "well imagine talking to me like I couldn't lift your sofa up the stairs all by myself.".
@@Spacewith2224 I uh...think you have an additional negation in there by accident. Dysmorphia isn't a gender issue, it can affect anyone and does not reflect on your gender, it's the other way around. I'm a cis male, so my dysmorphia would manifest in other aspects I feel like I fall short in compared to my mental image of myself. I'm sorry but being queer ain't make you special or alien, you have the same feelings as non-queers. It's just that for y'all it targets a different side of your identity.
Transgender man here - I got top surgery (masculinizing chest reconstruction) and my plastic surgeon explained that the procedure I got was identical to if I were a cis man with gyno. Since my existing breast tissue was so small he even billed it as gynecomastia surgery which I found very gender affirming within itself! The point is that the procedure itself is the same, the only difference is that for trans people it has a much deeper meaning behind it.
So an overwhelming amount of Christians say personal revelation is why they believe. How is a trans person not having a personal revelation with who they are? Would Christians accept trans people if they said those thoughts came from god?
This is actually pretty close to one of the pro-LGBTQ theological arguments from Bible scholar and minister Dr. Jeffrey Siker. Really brilliant and compassionate guy. I made a video with him a while back. He’s my first interviewee here: ruclips.net/video/-SWBxq7joWY/видео.htmlsi=mHyfVvBQxnUb_K_K
Moreover, if you fully believe in a personal revelation, I’d argue that obviates any need to rely on biblical inerrancy (let alone literalism). Holy books aren’t the foundation of spirituality, they are human efforts to distill or express spiritual experience.
personal revelations are thoughts and ideas that are interpreted as coming from an outside god. meanwhile gender identity is very internalized, comes from a part of ourselves thats deeper than our consciousness, and is more of an unrelenting fact of our experience than a sudden message out of the blue. id love to hear from a trans person who was religious and had revelations. im sure the internal experience of the two is very different. i know there was never divine intervention in terms of me understanding my own identity. my gender has always been a part of me the way my adhd has. its just built in
They also tend to not realize that feelings include intuitions and gut instincts. So the question back at them is if they're willing to toss out those particular feelings in the face of facts? I'm guessing it'd be a tough pill for them to swallow.
@@phill234the moment they asked if the surgery made him feel more comfortable in his gender i could sense an immediate change in him. he didn't really have an answer to how it was any different and he knew it
I can think of a good reason why he'd be uncomfortable confronting his gynecomastia: if he was inducted into the US Navy and still had that condition when he went to boot camp, he'd have been ridiculed endlessly -- very likely to the point of suicide. And he still doesn't get it . . . .
@@JaxontheOkay the best part is that i can't really telle wether he was like "well it was obviously about affirming my gender but i can't say it" or "wait... it WAS about affirming my gender all along and i am just now realising!"
When I told my parents I intended to get a diagnosis for autism and ADHD, they gave me the same "well I never noticed anything, and there's nothing wrong with you anyway, you're normal" response. Because there isn't the same kind of moral panic as there is around trans people, they changed their minds a couple months later. Then what I learned is that what they'd told me about "not noticing anything" wasn't even true. My mom admitted that apparently, my teachers were recommending I get diagnosed for these exact things consistently since kindergarten, but my parents thought a diagnosis would "hinder" me, so they didn't do that.
My parents have bought into the anti-trans stuff though. I suspect they will do the same "I didn't notice anything" response when I come out as trans, even though my own suspicions about my gender go back way way further than my suspicions about ADHD or autism. I first learned what trans people were in the first place because I was trying to search up the way I was feeling on the internet in like 6th grade, though it goes back even earlier. It wouldn't be surprising if there was the same thing with my parents being told about or noticing signs, and then ignoring them anyway.
My mom’s exact words after I got diagnosed with ADHD were, “Well, you can develop that as an adult.” Never mind that part of getting diagnosed was explaining to my psychiatrist how I struggled with all the symptoms that we’re figuring out women have more often since I was in about 2nd grade….
That's what I love about the "indoctrinating kids" crowd. I learned I was ace when I was 19. I mean, I knew I was ace when I was 5 or 6, but I learned what the word for it is, and that it's normal, and that there's other people like me and all that later on. We have to seek out or stumble upon our queer identities a decade after we feel the feelings, we aren't brainwashed or indoctrinated into them. If anything, I was brainwashed for a decade into being cishet.
I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child but my parents didn't believe the psychiatrist because they said my sister doesn't have it, so instead of getting a second opinion, I was never treated.
I love that transphobes always say that trans people should see a psychiatrist/therapist without realizing that therapy is step 1 to transitioning and getting a prescription for HRT. What they really mean is conversion therapy and they should be honest about that
So true, lol. “You need therapy, but you know… not REAL therapy by a trained therapist, what you need is my untrained assistance because obviously I know better than you do about what you should do with your own body☺️🌸”
They're like this about sexuality in general too, seeing as they use the exact same methods to, say, shame women for having any sort of sex drive outside of marriage.
“We’re not gonna impose this on anyone who can’t give their complete informed consent”…. Wish he held that sentiment towards the religious indoctrination of children
It was brave of Turek to admit to gender-affirming surgery, though I think it got surprised out of him. He almost allowed himself to realize that his surgery is no different to anybody else's, but then he had to shy away from the subject because that would have shown empathy.
Excactly, it boils down to empathy. For him to admit trans people deserve to get that surgery if we need it, just like he does, he'd have to consider our emotions equal in value to his, which he can't because we're the Other, or a hypothetical. We are not as human, so he can't empathize.
I personally think he was struggling because he would have to admit he took anabolic steroids. Not saying that is the only cause of GM but is the most likely because I can think of for a military man to have it. The way he was wavering and saying "its not the same" makes me think he took illicit drugs and doesnt want to admit it.
As a practicing clinical psychologist in the US I am completely sickened that a group of struggling children who need empathy, compassion, and possibly medical interventions have been turned into a hateful misinformed political punching bag for narrow minded and angry pseudo adults.
Your voice is so appreciated. That's what really held me back growing up. I had inklings that I didn't feel okay with myself. The silliest thing I remember was that I didn't like my name, I just never did. From day one, I thought it was too long and had too many syllables and anytime I heard someone calling it I would feel queasy. I was a kid, though. I didn't know anything. I was just told 'that's your name, you'll grow out of this'. But I never did. I'm 27 now, I didn't come out until I was 21. I had to be my own support person because we moved around a lot and I never trusted people enough to let them in. I wasn't indoctrinated. I read books. I listened to other voices. Still had the mindset of "Okay, I understand this - but I don't think that's me". Until it got too much for me to bear. I was at my breaking point with my family. I wasn't in a good place. Transitioning became life or death for me. I wouldn't be here if I didn't. Now I've finished school, I'm working in the legal field and loving it, I support my wife and MIL, and I have a massive circle of friends and colleagues. I'm thriving in the life I chose to pursue because it was what's best for me. But in these angry pseudo-adult minds, I'm just "out to get their kids"... I work from home and only go out when I have a trip planned or am running errands. So they really think we struggle, finally get to transition and then put our lives on hold (again)...just to commit hypothetical crimes?
It’s so true. Trans people are treated like a political talking point rather than actual individuals with biographical life stories. Growing up with an acute feeling of dissonance between biological sex and gender identity is already hard enough as it is. But ON TOP of that many of them have to deal with people who just want to debate them on their very existence instead of treating them like actual people. That must be so mentally exhausting. We’ve made a lot of progress, but it’s still clear that we have a lot of work to do in getting this population to be socially accepted en masse.
@@ianmiller7735 Thank you for sharing your story! It helps many to understand what you guys have to go through. I sincerely believe that in the future, our great grandchildren will look back on our times and see how ridiculous it was that so many people outright ignored your reality in much the same way we currently look back on our ancestors for how ridiculous they were for burning “witches” and heretics at the stake.
I'd be pretty upset too if I was a pedophile who was being denied the opportunity to groom children and sate my Munchausen's syndrome by proxy. Luckily I'm not a fucking retard and don't believe in nor support the modern medical equivalent of lobotomies.
He wouldn't have wanted to say that either because that would give anyone an easy excuse to get gender affirming care. Instead of having to argue with people like him they could just claim they did it for the health benefit. Well, some of the surgeries that is. As long as something is being removed or reduced.
Pro tip: When a bigot Christian starts mouthing off about how being trans/gay/whatever is a sin and will get you into Hell, tell them that _they're_ the ones being corrupted by the Devil into misunderstanding Christ's teachings and doing evil in his name
Bro please read the Bible. It clearly states being those things are sinful. We are simply trying to tell you that not cause we hate you beacuse we are trying to help cause if it’s all true well the most loving thing we could have done was tell you instead of letting you burn for eternity
@@blakevinccent4928actually, according to the Bible if you never told anyone about Christianity then we would just be judged by our actions. Said bible also doesn’t mention trans people at all, and even has Jesus’ father be the product of a gay union.
2 дня назад
@@blakevinccent4928 Says the uneducated religious zealot who has never even read the bibble, front to back, ever, in their life. Typical zealots. Uneducated and naive about your own barbaric religion lmao.
@@absurdism-yw I just really grossed my self out thinking that those breasts had never known a lovers touch. YUK. He also wears glasses, it seems he´s not very happy with the body god gave him
As a trans person in the very red state of Missouri, thank you. Things have been difficult and it’s only gotten worse. There’s a decent chance I’ll lose my healthcare and have to leave the state and have to leave my daughter behind with my ex. I’m one of three openly trans people in my area, and so most here are far enough removed from the issue that it doesn’t impact them on a personal level. As you can imagine, this makes them even more resistant to change. It takes people like you sticking your neck out for us and it’s greatly appreciated.
Drew, you missed the best part, where he tells people to go to a site that has a link for evidence of people regretting gender affirming surgery, and clicking on the evidence link gives a whopping 2 bullet points of evidence! One of those bullet points is literally just a subreddit.
That reminds me of the Conservepedia, or whatever it's called, used to claim that gay men are more prone to illness and as a source they linked an article about Elton John cancelling a show due to being sick.
Sounds about right. I had someone use me as proof that hysterectomies to remove a healthy uterus is mutilation because of all the complications I had. However there are massive glaring flaws with that theory- I didn't have a healthy uterus (well unless they think healthy organs make you pass out), I didn't have complications, and (even if I'd had them) complications don't make something mutilation.
It all boils down to enforcing their idea of normalcy. That's why the hypocrisy doesn't matter to them. A man removing gynecomastia moobs is just complying with normalcy, so allowed and even required. It's not about having a coherent system of beliefs that can hold up to scrutiny because that's entirely besides the point and why such ilk tend to flounder and sputter when expected to explain. You're not supposed to question what's normal because normal is inherently good because tradition because made sense long ago and nothing ever changes. You're not supposed to go looking for the man behind the curtain, you're supposed to just stick to oversimplified "common sense" as dictated by such assholes.
A person having surgery and taking hormones to alter their body to match a societal stereotype is also complying with normalcy. You're not supposed to question which is why if you do you get labelled a transphobe.
@@loganmedia1142 Gender-affirming medical care isn’t about meeting societal standards. It’s about the body matching the brain’s expectations. For example, people who lose limbs in accidents or to disease (such as cancer) can experience phantom limb syndrome because their brains experience the change to the physical self as traumatic. (It’s why we have body horror as a horror genre.) Gender-affirming medical procedures for trans people are the alleviation of body horror. I had boobs for over 2 decades. You’d expect my brain to experience a double mastectomy as traumatic because a huge chunk of my flesh was removed, right? But it was the total opposite. I’ve honestly had a harder time adjusting to shorter haircuts than I did a flat chest.
12:47 “if biological variations of these gender categories don’t call for new categories themselves, then these categories are not strictly biological” this is such a strong argument and so succinctly stated. If Turek’s gynecomastia wasn’t a normal variation of being a man, then he’s either arguing that he was born in a body that didn’t correspond with his gender identity (“I was always a man!”) and needed gender affirming care or else he is something other than *man* or *woman*, neither of which I imagine he’d be comfortable with admitting, even if one is obviously true.
What he was doing is the same thing "transgender" people are doing, being conformist. That's why he and they actually have a lot in common. They're all conservatives.
What's it going to take to get people to just mind their own business about sex and gender? Virtually anything else in life impacts you more. God this isn't complicated.
the moment the trans activists stop screaming for attention every single day and try to advocate for invasive surgery and hormone treatments for children against their parents will most normal people will stop caring.
because if they didn't obsess with this then they'd have to deal with the bullshit in their lives. Far easier to blame everything on queer people than to deal with your own issues.
i agree,therefore bioligical women should be allowed to compete in a safe and fair environment without men,and waiters etc should be allowed to get on with their jobs without fear of misgendering a man in a dress wearing lipstick
We have to evolve past our foolish superstitions, and embrace science and provable evidence. That's why we exemplify evidential medicine and science, we use science because we can demonstrate how it works. No one has yet convincingly demonstrated that God exists or that true miracles can be demonstrated to be supernatural. In only a few decades we have learned to build what were considered 'super computers' that used to take up entire buildings, and now we have them in our pockets. And we still foolishly see them as magic boxes that make us into super geniuses simply by using them. We have the sum total of human knowledge at our finger tips and some people simply don't know what to do with that information. We use science every day and deny the validity of the scientific marvels we've developed. We could have the universe at our fingertips, if only we were willing to trust science itself and leave our old, foolish beliefs behind in history, where they belong. It's time to find new things to believe in.
I'm proud to say that not only have we banned forced conversion "therapy" in my state of Kentucky, but we also shot down Prop 2 which would have siphoned money from public schools to private/charter schools. 🎉🎉🎉
@@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic Several Nations Are Restricting or Backing Away from Puberty Blockers and Cross-Sex Hormones for Minors A growing number of nations, including some that pioneered medical transitions, are reversing course. Health authorities and medical associations in England, Sweden, Finland, France, Australia, and New Zealand are warning against, and even curtailing the use of puberty blockers, hormones, and surgeries on children with gender dysphoria: • Sweden: The country’s main gender clinic will no longer authorize puberty blockers and hormones to be given to minors under the age of 16 because “the risks of Written Testimony on KY H.B. 470 Page 5 puberty suppressing treatment … and gender-affirming hormonal treatment currently outweigh the possible benefits … based on ... continued lack of reliable scientific evidence concerning the efficacy and the safety of both treatments.” • Finland: The country severely restricts the use of puberty blockers and hormones except for exceptional case after extensive psychiatric assessment of the child, warning that “no decisions should be made that can permanently alter a still-maturing minor’s mental and physical development.” • United Kingdom: Recently, the National Health Service eliminated their “gender clinic” model of care, suspended the use of puberty blockers and hormones except for purely research purposes, and instead announced that “psychological support” and “a watchful approach” are the recommend treatment for gender dysphoria. • France: The National Academy of Medicine issued a statement urging “great medical caution” when working with children experiencing gender dysphoria “given the vulnerability, particularly psychological, of this population and the many undesirable effects, and even serious complications, that some of the available therapies can cause.” • Australia & New Zealand: The Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Psychiatrists recently emphasized that treatments for gender dysphoria should focus on psychotherapy and address “co-existing issues which may need addressing and treating.” In other words, these countries are putting psychological treatment and counseling at the forefront of caring for these children, who often suffer from other psychiatric conditions, not puberty blockers, hormones, or surgeries
@@larschristianalm It is used as for trans people to help them with other matters, and it is not used to treat gender dysphoria because it is useless here.
Turek stands for nothing. His arguments hop around and contradict each other like fleas on an infested hyena. He'll say anything to win an argument, and he can't even do _that_ right.
i started my medical transition at age 27, despite wanting to be a girl as early as puberty. every day i grieve over how much better my transition could hav been.
I understans how you feel, i found out i was 16. Ive been on a waiting list to get care since, im now 25 n still have nothing in terms of medication. Its unreal how long it takes to get anywhere and im frankly very exhausted emotionally
That's the thing...the healthiest time to transition is earlier than 26, but the "lovers of human life" want to force it as late as possible...and then mock people for not being masculine/feminine enough after transition. But, you know, christian love.
@@bazooka712 there was actually! Lots of the items were really expensive, but the promotional cut down the price by more than half in some cases. Great for someone who is mildly interested in trying something new
As a trans person living in the United States, I really appreciate this video. I wish people could understand that people should be able to do what they want with their bodies, and that we should respect everyone’s identity.
@@Reed5016This! People could spin the same hate around cis people changing their names for any reason. Do they? No!!! How are trans people any different???
@@alg11297 Tolerance is overrated. The thing that matters is respecting what someone wants to be called. I’ll respect what a cis person wants to be called, and expect the same from them.
I've watched your channel for a while so I'm not surprised by this, but thank you for supporting trans people during this difficult time. I can't say how much this means to me as a trans guy just having people defend us endlessly
Be careful you dont get too comfortable with ppl defending you. After all you are you, its good to have support at times but the ppl defending you are not always good either. In the end you have to stand up as you are yourself.......and sometime its not even a need to defend yourself, its just misunderstandings and diffrent meanings of words.
I very much share the sentiment! With trans people only representing about 2% of the population, and most anti-trans people not taking us seriously because they think we're mentally ill, I'm so glad there are a lot of cis allies who are informed enough about our struggles to be able and willing to come to our defense.
@@njhoepner Awww that's so sweet! It's so nice to hear from a supportive parent. How's his journey goin? I always like to hear lil moments of trans joy, getting a 1st binder, using a new name. Anything that makes them happy is beautiful to see ^v^
The notion that a book-a product of human consciousness and culture-could demand belief for organized religion, all while degrading humanity as nothing more than wretched rags unworthy of dignity, is nothing short of contemptible. It’s an insult to human potential, creativity, and worth. You are not some pitiable, groveling creature; you are worthy of admiration, including your own. Celebrate your existence, your mind, and your humanity, and reject the degrading nonsense of anyone that seeks to diminish you. Never let a faith convince you that you are less than magnificent.
Periodt! I was born gay and I always felt okay with that until my own parents started making me feel insecure/uncomfortable about my own sexuality or mannerisms.
As someone with a bachelor in psych and a masters in sexology, I extremely appreciate you making these videos. Your discussion is perfect in so many ways.
@@thesecondhat4717 Why? We're crazy because we understand and appreciate that the human species is more complex and varied than you personally might be comfortable with?
@@thesecondhat4717Gasp, it’s almost like the people who’ve studied and learned about this topics, and dedicated their lives to them MIGHT actually know what they’re talking about!
The age of consent is 18 or 21 depending on state and what is being consented to? Why should consent for surgery require an age of 26? This is another example of conservatives changing the rules to suit their needs.
The idea that an adult (18) can't do something because a government feels they are too young is repugnant to our Constitution. We send our 18 year olds to war. Nothing should be denied them due to age.
18 is old enough to fight in the war but you gotta be 21+ to do any sort of drug used to cope. Tobacco/Nicotine, Alcohol and Weed are all now 21+ federally
@@P_D-px6iv you can also sell all of those things too when you turn 18. It's so weird knowing the names of cigarettes before even being allowed to smoke.
@@sandwichqueen In some states like my own (WV) it's even younger than that. Teens can sell/serve alcohol at 16 here as long as they are directly supervised by someone 21+.
@@phantom8926 you didnt have to comment that and from the outside you could think that your feeling got hurt pls get help and dont hesitate to ask question to people who know what they are talking about to understand this topic
@@suffistsee, it’s funny, cause trans people were getting hate before sports came into it. It’s almost like, I don’t know, people who hate trans folks will find any excuse to hate on them and see them as a threat 🤷♀️
@@abbywolf9701 I just had a thought. The person you responded to is not here, so I am assuming their comment was deleted. Yet it is still here contained in your response. I wonder if people who say nasty things have figured out that they can get deleted, and still have their bad ideas out there???? Again, I just noticed it because there are only responses, and no original comments.
This reminds me of the uproar over D&D back in the eighties, the panic over 'satanic music' or even rock and roll and the 'war on drugs'. I'm sick and tired of these people.
"Free will is a myth, Religion is a joke. We are all pawns, controlled by something greater... Memes, the DNA of the soul! They are the culture: they are everything we pass on!" -Monsoon, Metal Gear Rising
Already commented but I’d just like to add that I transitioned as a minor in a very rural and conservative part of Florida almost 10 years ago. I had the privilege of going on hormone replacement therapy at 16 and got chest masculinizing surgery (aka top surgery) at 17. I was also able to graduate high school with my chosen name, David, and not my dead name - something I’ve fantasized about since I first discovered concept of graduation! Everything that happened was necessary because anything less would have lead to a brutal suicide. I was in a horrific place mentally before my transition, but hormones and surgery allowed me to be an ecstatic and wildly successful adult. Every gram of success I’ve ever experienced is thanks to my transition, and I will stop at nothing to provide that some opportunity to kids just like me.
It’s so good to hear that you got the support you needed and that you’re thriving! I bet seeing your chosen name on your diploma was awesome. I’m happy to join you in the fight to give folks the opportunity you had. 🫡🏳️⚧️
@@sandwichqueen yep. Even if we didn't know the right words, many of us knew. I didn't learn the word trans till 16, but at 11 I was calling puberty torture and saying it should be made illegal.
@@waffles3629 yeah. I didn't have the words until after I came out funny enough. The reason it seems like trans people randomly popped up more in the last 2 decades was due to social media really expanding in the last 2 decades. People who otherwise didn't have the words suddenly did. The internet is what helped me learn all the vocabulary. The most harmful thing about learning about trans people is bigotry.
@@sandwichqueen yep, it's like left handedness, it suddenly "exploded" how many people were left handed, well after people stopped being whacked with rulers (or even worse things) to force them to be right handed. When something stops being discriminated against at heavily it is safer for people to be openly that thing. Like there are still people who think being left handed is evil, but not many. There are still people who think interracial couples shouldn't be allowed to get married, but not as many as there used to be. The same thing is happening with gay and trans people right now.
Calling it "gender affirming" is quite the stretch just because it happens to be tissue that we tie gender to. If he had an abnormal growth on his forehead removed that wouldn't be considered gender affirming, but because boobs are, it is? Cis people having "gender affirming care" is such a strawman.
@@HungryWarden So? It made him uncomfortable, so he had it removed. It's an assumption that it had relevance to gender for him. If a woman has breast reduction surgery, is that gender affirming _just_ because it pertains to a gendered body part? In that instance & using this flawed logic she would be making herself "less feminine."
It’s such a huge stretch to call it gender affirming care and it trivializes actual gender affirming care. These arguments trivialize trans people. Shaving legs, growing a beard, going to the gym, wearing makeup would all be classed as “gender affirming”.
My main question is why people care? How could someone deciding to change their gender possibly worsen your life? A trans person gets to feel more comfortable with their own body, and nothing gets worse for you.
It is quite literally an ideological discussion, one that directly alters society in the case of trans sports. Whether or not someone can be born in the wrong body, or whether the transition of minors is ethical, are important topics to people because this impacts fundamental aspects of our lives.
You can't actually change your sex, only your outward appearance. But yes adults can do whatever they want to their body, alter it in any way they like. What's not appropriate is hormones, puberty blockers, etc. for anyone who is not yet an adult.
@@loganmedia1142 You are talking to someone actively pushing genocide and consider the sides the same. Please get informed instead of allowing such horrendous views to thrive.
I experienced basically what happened in the skit with my mom... I found the right words in freshman year of high school, at age 14. Genderfluid. The way I internally experience gender is so, so fluid. I didn't even try to tell my mom until I was 22. When I did? Instead of my friend group, she blamed my teachers who helped me not only graduate high school but prevented me from pressing delete on myself. Sigh...
Absolutely priceless, watching the cogs turn as a cis guy is forced to confront his own gender identity for the first time, as a thing that is more complex, neither 100% biological nor 100% imposed, while ON STAGE and under internal and social pressure to not only repress that self-exploration, but deny its significance or relevance! Trying desperately to get back on track with his presentation after having said too much.
@@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic bless your heart ❤️ I'm very good at debating religious folks because I'm religious and queer but it's frustrating for me to deal with skeptics who say horrible misogynistic and transphobic things wrapped into pseudoscience (like evolutionary psychology)
As a member of the Alphabet Mafia myself, (demi-boy/bisexual) my deconstruction started when I came out to my church friends. It was as if I'd been telling them a lie my entire life, because a "True Christian" couldn't be anything but cisgender and heterosexual. I believed, and didn't even have to do as much special pleading to accept my existence as others did to invalidate me. I have been considering a small amount of gender-affirming care, but am scared of how my remaining Christian friends would react. I appreciate everything you're doing for the queer community. I would like to thank you from the bottom of my heart for being a voice against this bigotry, as this adds yet more voices that will support me through this journey that I wish to undertake.
I cannot get over the methology for the ROGD study. "My study found that people on transgendertrend think being transgender is a trend!!" that's craaaazy bro no way lmfao
@@Andre-zw5kl That's the point. Nobody would want this, most people have it done involuntarily shortly after they're born. Except for in some cultures (usually Islamic cultures) where there's a big ceremony and everything that's performed while the kids are old enough to remember it. It's painful, it can be fucked up in a variety of ways, and it's entirely unnecessary.
@@Duskbound got it. I was stuck in a cultural difference as I'm french and we don't really see circucised people. My best friend it's muslim and he told me how nasty this thing was for him.
@@Andre-zw5kl Circumcision at birth is extremely common within evangelical Christianity, which highlights the absurdity of their complaints about supposed genital mutilation of children.
"The way out of that is not surgery according to the data." You mean the data that says HRT and gender affirming surgery reduces gender dysphoria? I saw a Christian psychologist for 10 years before finally coming out as trans. Didn't help. Been out for 5 years, on HRT 3.75 years. I've had an orchie. I feel the best I have since pre-puberty. Because the sex hormones balance was the problem all along.
“It had nothing to do with my gender. It had to do with the fact that it looked really odd.” The lack of self awareness 🤦🏻🙄 That’s how dysphoric trans people feel!!!! It looks odd and out of place and transitioning is so awkward and ON TOP of that society acts all weird and make it about gender, but really we just want to not feel/look awkward. That’s like 95% of my experience of dysphoria!!! God damn!!! Thanks for talking about this, my guy. 👍🏻 I started watching your videos when you left a toxic Christian community and now am watching you speak up about other human rights issues. ^^
And people who call themselves transgender also don't want to break the norms. That's the whole point of surgery and hormones, to conform to a stereotype.
“People who need one, tidy, supposedly objective definition of religion, do so because they want a useful tool with which to accomplish their rhetorical and ideological goals.” That could apply to so much more than just religion.
Even since tRump got elected, roving bands of mad doctors in white vans have been kidnapping trans women off of the streets and stitching their weenies back on. The horror.
The one and only time I've ever seen an ounce of humanity, of actual regret, self-awareness, and an acknowledgment (only to himself) that he was wrong, and Frank just brushed it off after that instant of realization.
After years and years of debates I'm starting to realize these arguments are kinda useless. It's like trying to talk a slave owner out of owning slaves by saying "but what if someone enslaved you instead? You wouldn't like that, would you?" as if his real underlying position wasn't "we're just better than them"
Yep. Trying to talk somebody out of hurting somebody when they benefit from hurting them is like thinking you can convince a guy man to stop killing people. maybe you can talk somebody who was already on the fence and has other options, plus already was considering the ethics of it, but that's like 10% if them or less. Most in that line of work know what they are doing, know it's evil, know how lucrative it is, and ultimately don't give a fuck about that other stuff, so long as they can live a good life, have fun, escape the consequences and sail into the sunset. That's why we outlawed slavery, rather than thinking people would give up slavery willingly. Hell, it's been 160 years and they are still clinging into slavery.
I love the science illiteracy of the gender critical. The confidence with which they assert fallacious assumptions and unwarranted conclusions is a definite sign that they are ignorant of how science even works.
Absolutely. This is why gender critical people and Christian apologists get along so well: the apologist guys have been doing over confident pseudointellectualism for centuries already.
I wonder if you heard of unethical experiment on twin boys. They took one boy and gave him a sex change. The parents raised him as a girl for his childhood. When he reached adulthood he was confused. He felt like a guy in a woman's body. Eventually he found out what happened and committed suicide. I think this supports trans people mentality. It's not a disease or sin.
That one example of the twin boys only PROVES that making someone live perceived as someone they are not is not healthy, trans people are BORN with their sex and gender misaligned, that's why they experience dysphoria just like those two cisgender kids were made to experience, they weren't and couldn't be "turned" trans, because trans people just are, they aren't made artificially in human bodies. This whole example proves gender affirming care IS necessary, that the other boy NEEDED to be perceived as a boy for his own sake, and that we should allow them to be as such.
You might be referring to a report from Johns Hopkins University, by John Money and Anke Ehrhardt (in 1972). The one twin's genitals had been damaged beyond salvaging in a botched circumcision, so after a lot of deliberation the parents decided to give him a sex change and raise him as a girl. As you describe, he struggled, and contemplated suicide (but made no attempts as far as I know). He survived, learned what had happened, and transitioned back to being a man. He was interviewed by the psychologist Milton Diamond in 1997. The story features pretty prominently in the gender chapter of Judith Rich Harris' 1998 book The Nurture Assumption, which you got me to pull off my shelf and review 👍
@@AnotherCraig I know one of the twins committed suicide. I don't remember which one. The Story of David Reimer: A Transgender Experiment ruclips.net/video/SLFGMWoQaCU/видео.html It was so long ago I could not remember the details.
@@HITMANPegas Ah, thanks. Yes, in 2004. It sounds like it might have been related to an impending divorce, but regardless, the whole story is a tragedy that very easily could've been avoided. Still, it's illustrative. Though we always have some learning to do, we are all the one and only experts on our individual identities. And that identity is ultimately its own thing, independent of outside expectations and pressures.
"Whoever saves a life saves the world entire." I may not be religiously Jewish anymore but there are parts of the culture I have still adopted. During the video you referred to another video that you published about 8 months ago. I know you went through a lot just to put the video out. Tons of scripting and research. Careful and rigid work. Thank you. I listened to that video several times a week for several weeks until I got the courage to come out at work and used its sources to talk with my doctor and to try to open conversation with family and friends. I was having a lot of trouble when you published it, things were very dark, and now even despite the political climate being darker, I am doing a lot better. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. Thank you, Drew, confirmed savior of the world.
This is why I don't really like debates like these. Both sides go away thinking they won, and that the other side is stupid. No one reflects on their own position. No one learns. Thank you as always for your thoughtful response to anti-trans bigotry, Drew. We need it more than ever now.
Exactly. It lets the memes* run wild in society. The only thing that can stop it is a meme promoting self-reflection and good argumentation. And so we must make like a butter knife and spread it. *Meme: a self-replicating cultural idea.
In this case, the person they are trying to convince isn’t the one they are debating, but rather the audience. So both parties can still end the debate believing themselves to be correct, but the “winner” is the one who convinced the most to their side.
This revelation from Frank is shocking. I think a little more pressure would have revealed the truth: Frank had the surgery because other guys in the Navy said it made him look like a woman. They made jokes. There was social pressure. The more I think about this dramatic revelation, I'm like, is this Frank's origin story? Was his treatment as a young cis man who was viewed as slightly feminine a trigger to push him into persecuting others?
I have had to deal with gender dysphoria my entire life. But with a twist. I was born with a sexual development issue that had its origins in sexual development during my gestation. I had several surgeries as a child and even a nasty case of cancer as an adult. Long before my surgeries as a child I knew that I wasn't male because if felt it deep down. Then at age ten the reality of my failure to sexually mature. My DNA is male but I developed a form of ovarian cancer because my right testis was a ovotestis and the other teatis failed to grow to normal adult size.. The sad part of all this I cannot transition to female because taking estrogen would cause my ovarian based cancer to return. That makes me intersex but there is a connection to the transgender community at the same time. Yet the pain of gender dysphoria is still apart of my soul, deep deep down I am female. Clearly my bodies biology is leaning toward the female side as well as the phycological side.
That sounds rough. I doubt it's anything new, but the advice I can give is to remember that women come in many forms. A definition is basically impossible. So focus less on the type of woman you want to be and focus more on the woman you can become. Basically what I'm saying is, play to your strengths in, but do it in a way you like.
@@Cool-Vest I The nature of my body demands I be androgynous. Even as a child I would be mistaken as a girl but not so much as an adult. Psychiatry is only needed as phycological protection from religious nut cases. I have been married for many decades and we made our marriage work though love. I have had several dozen surgeries just to survive and none to become to person deep in side. My spouse was a very conservative christian and she has pushed aside her beliefs to love me for who I am. So from my point that counts as a win.
18:32 "Don't you think it's a problem that academics can't agree on the definition of..." planet? religion? consciousness? autism? gravity? etc. Turns out, definitions are just tools we use to describe things, and have no intrinsic connection to anything they describe. However, this feeds into an earlier point: if you define something distinctly when there is actually nuance, then you can dismiss anything which doesn't fit your definition as "broken" or any other kind of exception. Usually this is done by pathologizing things. _Intersex is not common, therefore it's a disorder that should be fixed. ADHD is not common, therefore it's a disorder that should be fixed. Gynecomastia is not common, therefore it's a disorder that should be fixed. Pluto is a planet because that's how I was raised. Evolution doesn't happen because dogs are dogs and cats are cats._ People with these opinions think that the entire universe was created with neat, discrete categories for everything. The complete overturn of this philosophy has been happening increasingly in scientific fields since the 1800s. Just about the only thing we have yet to find nuance in is the laws of thermodynamics (which, ironically, are used frequently and hilariously incorrectly in apologetics circles).
Right on. In the largest and smallest contexts, everything we think and know (… and about what we THINK we know) about existence is bullshit … it’s incomplete because as humans we have the most infinitessimal sliver of experience and understanding. Our understanding is only functional if it gets us through today. But it might not bear out tomorrow. That’s the closest thing we have to a fact, and it’s the best one to keep in mind.
20:57 Sooo... if one can't be trans until they are 26 for their "complete and formal consent"... then isn't it preying on children to force them to accept Christ? Join the military? Get married? All of those have life long effects, too.
My daughter is trans. There's nothing wrong with her. She's not experiencing a disorder. She hasn't changed. She's still the same person I've always loved with all my heart. She's got a massive brain, a wicked sense of humor, and empathy for days and days. She's just trans. My feelings for her are never going to change. Not ever. I'm her father. Full stop.
Thank you so much for allowing your daughter to live her life unburdened by gender dysphoria. I hope she's doing well! As a trans person who has to hide my identity from parents, it's a constant source of anxiety and struggle that you would never want to see your child experience.
@venturer9400 It's never been a question for me. It shouldn't be for any thinking, caring person. I am terribly sorry that you feel the need to covert yourself. I find that alarming. Trans people have existed since there were, y'know, people. I assure you that there is nothing wrong with you. The problem exists on the other side of the human experience, when people are incapable of overcoming their cultural beliefs. You are perfectly fine as you are. I would give you a hug if I could, but I only hope that you'll take these encouragements on your journey with you. Be proud of who you are. Have strength, learn wisdom, and please, I beg you, find a way to lead a safe and happy life. All my best.
@@ericthompson3982 I'm sure your views and had absolutely nothing to do with your child being 'Trans," and it was a just a totally organic process, with zero medical interventions....Right?
As 19 year old, I recently thought about the argument that "the brain isn't fully formed until 26". I think that judgements based on the capabilities of a group should be based on ... testing that group for these capabilities. And it turns out that there is only a very small difference between the executive functions of legal adults of any age. For me this sadly just means that I can not expect to become a significantly better decision maker.
As someone with a PhD in neuroscience, "the brain isn't fully formed until 26" is a bunch of bullshit. The brain never "finishes" developing - it's always changing. Also, notice how the people who argue "people under 26 should have fewer rights because the brain isn't fully developed" never argue in favor of taking rights away from people over ~60, despite mental decline in seniors.
“We can’t be encouraging them to do these irreversible things to their perfectly healthy bodies” says the man who got an irreversible surgery to his perfectly healthy body.
Gender affirming care is also for cis people. He's so close to understanding why we trans do it, yet his religious prejudice forces him into advocating for us to be denied what was available for him. Why didn't he just go to the psychiatrist to help him accept his body as it was, just as God designed it?
“I had it removed………… because………. it looked…… odd.” Kind of what some trans men might say. And we all saw those wheels moving in his brain… thinking…. “damn… how can I spin this without giving a similarity good excuse to trans folks”?!
@roundhouse2616 removing naturally grown breast issue because you're a woman with issues is completely different than when a man does it, sorry not sorry you will never be like men and comparing your surgery to his doesn't make you any less femaIe
I remember being told by my doctor I had gynecomastia as a kid. I had no concept of it looking wrong, but it did feel swollen and itchy like a cyst. It went away on its own. But when I hear about someone who has or had it, my thoughts go to it being physically uncomfortable.
Of course they aren’t saying that at all because that will mean that they gotta wait 8 more years until locking themselves and Little Timmy in the bathroom doesn’t count as statutory rape.
i wish anti trans arguments were honest because they always boil down to - i think it's icky (from secular people) - i think you're violating some cosmic divine law (from religious people) It's never been about anything else.
The other thing is about fearmongering around swindling people into decisions with permanent effects. Obviously it's a flawed argument. Plenty of safeguards are in place, and it is decently reversible. What I'm trying to say is "keep your enemies closer".
@@goodpeople25 Not exactly. The real things they're afraid of are regret and groupthink. A combination of echo-chambed media and confirmation bias means that that is all they see. Though, of course, ableism is deeply rooted in culture. Self-reflecting enough to root it out is difficult and painful, and is even harder to do for groups. Not that I agree with their opinions. I see dysphoria as a psychological disorder and transition as the treatment. Simple point. Easily defendable. Forces opponents to re-evaluate their viewpoints, building momentum. Take a debate class. It'll change your life.
Drew, thank you so so much for speaking out for queer and trans folks like myself. I actually lived in Austin for 16 years and finally left last December, mainly because it was becoming more and more apparent that I was not going to be able to live as myself there. My trans girlfriend fled Florida as well, and we're happily living together in PA (although we're both very upset over our new state going to Trump). Having allies like you who are calling this bigotry and transphobia out for what it is helps so much and gives me at least some modicum of hope. Also, that sponsor segue way had me laughing my ass off, just brilliant!
I was familiar with a woman who was a pioneer in transgender studies. Her view on therapy was that it was essential for the most successful outcomes for those who transition. From my view, gender dysphoria must be confusing for the individual and therapy is useful in sorting through the confusion. It is sensible to believe that those who sort through any confusion and who develop strategies for dealing with the hostilities of a generally nonaccepting public will have much better outcomes when they choose to transition their gender.
My understanding (at least in UK) is that counselling is compulsory to be considered for surgery. Therapy is important; in facing the big wide world and coping skills. And the most that can happen before 18 is puberty delaying medication (which has been used without question to treat Precocious Puberty - so eg a 5 yr doesn't need to deal with menstruation) But suddenly to treat teens with this reversible option is evil. And if someone makes a social transition and decides later that they are not trans - then the process of exploring has done its task just as much as if they decide they are trans. A more androgynous childhood - not thinking names and pronouns but in clothing; activities; play etc would be healthy. When girls are told that being a girl = princesses and pink; and they know they are not that - then they may question their identity when they could be comfortable with a less boxed in gender definition. Eg I am not a 'girly girl' in my womanhood; I am not sure what it is to define 'feeling female' but equally I am not repulsed by it. I just am myself and my body is female plumbed. So very, very different to the clearly Trans experience - but the more genders are boxed in then more people within the natural spectrum may feel that they don't connect anywhere. Whilst a more androgynous or genderfluid childhood would mean that it is not a fixed point of saying 'from next monday....' in social exploration, which can make it feel negative if the exploration doesn't lead to a trans identity.
Not only does all of this presuppose God, it also presupposes that every decision God makes is immutable and unchangeable. Yet scripture describes God as changing his mind, making mistakes, and regretting what he's done all the time, and many forms of theology admit this. Nature is constantly in flux, all living things change, people can have differences in the way they develop, and individuals can change over the course of their lifetime. To put it simply, you're not the same person you were when you were born. You are going to have different needs in the future than you do now, or did when you were growing up. Change isn't just the norm, it's also inevitable.
I always find it interesting that they dont seem to be up in aws about young girls getting breast implants. Why not ban all cosmetic surgery until 26 then too, Turic? Because why should young people be allowed to make descisions at all? It's so convoluted and they dont really have a leg to stand on. Its just so they can hate on a group of people and feel good about it.
Okay so shall we also not let people into churches until after they’re 26? We wouldn’t want to influence vulnerable minds into believing something they otherwise wouldn’t….
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@@darkpendulumsystem you could also win a free toy! you either get a free toy or a gift card
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If he thinks it shouldn't be done till 26 "because the brain is not fully formed", the I assume he is arguing for the min military service age, smoking age, drinking age, marriage age all raised to 26 as well then? Of course he's not.
You left out Driving. Having a brain that is not fully formed behind the wheel of a dangerous vehicle should be banned.
the study that claim is based on has been debated and appears to be incomplete anyway
@@mikelwrites If I remember correctly, it's because the brain was shown to still be developing at the age of 25, but the study ran out of money and had to conclude. It's likely that the brain continues to develop far past that age.
Recall how fiercely republicans have fought recently to protect CHILD marriage.
@@kirbydude2523 yeah, that's what i remember hearing as well.
"I didnt want big boobies. Not because im a man, but because... uh... it didnt look right on my body because... uh..."
I'm not an advocate for bullying, but something tells me his navy buddies called him a girl until he got his surgery.
I mean I know cis women who still don't like having large breast. Mostly due to them being a major pain in the lower back.
@@ianmiller7735until?
@@ianmiller7735 yet he still doesnt realise
This is such a revealing moment, you can clearly see how bamboozled he was.
4:00 This reminds me of my mother still saying my sister is not a lesbian, she's just going through a phase. She is 40 years old this year, and she's been married to a wonderful woman for 16 years now... that's not a phase and that's not being led astray.
The only phase is middle(ish) age and whatever reaching 20 years of marriage is. Silver anniversary, I think? Regardless, congratulations to your sister on a long and happy marriage :)
Are you sure it's not just peer pressure? Being gay is really trendy these days. 🤣
Are you sure it's not just peer pressure? Being gay is really trendy these days. 🤣I kid.
My dad is still convinced my 46yo lesbian sister just needs to "find the right man", and that I'm "copying her because I look up to my big sister".
When the phase is lifelong if it helps them sleep at night:
So, he's willing to "change his body" even though "God doesn't make mistakes and you should never change anything about yourself"?
he was made in god's image but then he decided to change himself anyways
Well we definitely don't want to acknowledge the amount of plastic surgery he's had, or others like him have had, either then.
Rules for thee, not for me
"God doesn't make mistakes...except when it's convenient for me to get something fixed...'cuz god is really flexible that way when it comes to what I want."
By their own logic, wearing prescription eye glasses is a sin.
Turek: No consent for operations under the age of 26. But you can marry, get children etc before that age? hmm strange how consent works according to him....
It all comes from fear if trans person starts too early person can blend in easier and if they make us wait they will ensure we'll be visible. They fear stealth trans people.
Exactly. Recall how hard republicans have fought to preserve the right to effectively legally acquire a minor. A child has NO rights in that scenario! They cannot refuse nor get a divorce. He doesn't give a sh!t about protecting children!
In some states the age for marriage has dropped to 12, and kids can work at 10 years old in them as well. I think we need to push the ages back to 26 to match the development of the brain.
@@aelwynwitch9460 JFC are you serious?
@@turnerturner3281 "Child's body, parent's choice!" effectively.
I had gynaecomastia too and had breast reduction surgery when I was 18. I am a cis male and this procedure is ABSOLUTELY gender-affirming. This man is a piece of sh!t.
I was starting to have "gynecomastia" after starting Estrogen and I was THRILLED. totally not a gender thing. I love this example since it shows so well how trans people feel in their bodies
Idk, I've been rocking moobs since high school and I never felt the need for gender affirmation so I don't get it.
How I do get it is seeing muscles on my body that equate to how strong I feel and make people realize that I can, in fact, bench press their moms. It's my go-to example for why ignoring a trans person's presented gender is a dick move, I tell people "well imagine talking to me like I couldn't lift your sofa up the stairs all by myself.".
@@chukyuniqulit just means that this isn’t incompatible with your gender, trans people especially non binary people can also experience this
@@Spacewith2224 I uh...think you have an additional negation in there by accident.
Dysmorphia isn't a gender issue, it can affect anyone and does not reflect on your gender, it's the other way around. I'm a cis male, so my dysmorphia would manifest in other aspects I feel like I fall short in compared to my mental image of myself.
I'm sorry but being queer ain't make you special or alien, you have the same feelings as non-queers. It's just that for y'all it targets a different side of your identity.
@@chukyuniqulgender incongruence isn’t unique to trans people though
Transgender man here - I got top surgery (masculinizing chest reconstruction) and my plastic surgeon explained that the procedure I got was identical to if I were a cis man with gyno. Since my existing breast tissue was so small he even billed it as gynecomastia surgery which I found very gender affirming within itself!
The point is that the procedure itself is the same, the only difference is that for trans people it has a much deeper meaning behind it.
Your never gonna be a real woman bro
W plastic surgeon
That's very helpful. Kudos to your surgeon.
@@davidsantiagotate7380 that's pretty cool bro
@@Zeni-th. Is this ironic? I honestly can't tell
So an overwhelming amount of Christians say personal revelation is why they believe. How is a trans person not having a personal revelation with who they are? Would Christians accept trans people if they said those thoughts came from god?
This is actually pretty close to one of the pro-LGBTQ theological arguments from Bible scholar and minister Dr. Jeffrey Siker. Really brilliant and compassionate guy. I made a video with him a while back. He’s my first interviewee here:
ruclips.net/video/-SWBxq7joWY/видео.htmlsi=mHyfVvBQxnUb_K_K
That’s really interesting, I hadn’t thought abt that
Moreover, if you fully believe in a personal revelation, I’d argue that obviates any need to rely on biblical inerrancy (let alone literalism). Holy books aren’t the foundation of spirituality, they are human efforts to distill or express spiritual experience.
personal revelations are thoughts and ideas that are interpreted as coming from an outside god. meanwhile gender identity is very internalized, comes from a part of ourselves thats deeper than our consciousness, and is more of an unrelenting fact of our experience than a sudden message out of the blue.
id love to hear from a trans person who was religious and had revelations. im sure the internal experience of the two is very different. i know there was never divine intervention in terms of me understanding my own identity. my gender has always been a part of me the way my adhd has. its just built in
As a Christian trans woman I can pretty confidently say… no
For where I live at least
It’s ironic how the people shouting “facts don’t care about your feelings”are also the ones trigged by actual science.
"Facts don't care about YOUR feelings... they care about mine though..."
They also tend to not realize that feelings include intuitions and gut instincts. So the question back at them is if they're willing to toss out those particular feelings in the face of facts? I'm guessing it'd be a tough pill for them to swallow.
There is 0 science to support men can be women or vise versa. All scientific research on chromosomes tells us the opposite.
@@ryanelliott6706Chromosome abnormalities exist. Chromosomes aren't even tested when determining sex at birth in 99% of cases.
wokology is not science.
Ive never seen Turek look so uncomfortable with a question
Yeah, it really seemed like he regrets sharing his medical history.
@@phill234the moment they asked if the surgery made him feel more comfortable in his gender i could sense an immediate change in him. he didn't really have an answer to how it was any different and he knew it
I can think of a good reason why he'd be uncomfortable confronting his gynecomastia: if he was inducted into the US Navy and still had that condition when he went to boot camp, he'd have been ridiculed endlessly -- very likely to the point of suicide.
And he still doesn't get it . . . .
@@JaxontheOkay the best part is that i can't really telle wether he was like "well it was obviously about affirming my gender but i can't say it" or "wait... it WAS about affirming my gender all along and i am just now realising!"
Because he couldn't dodge it.
When I told my parents I intended to get a diagnosis for autism and ADHD, they gave me the same "well I never noticed anything, and there's nothing wrong with you anyway, you're normal" response. Because there isn't the same kind of moral panic as there is around trans people, they changed their minds a couple months later.
Then what I learned is that what they'd told me about "not noticing anything" wasn't even true. My mom admitted that apparently, my teachers were recommending I get diagnosed for these exact things consistently since kindergarten, but my parents thought a diagnosis would "hinder" me, so they didn't do that.
My parents have bought into the anti-trans stuff though. I suspect they will do the same "I didn't notice anything" response when I come out as trans, even though my own suspicions about my gender go back way way further than my suspicions about ADHD or autism. I first learned what trans people were in the first place because I was trying to search up the way I was feeling on the internet in like 6th grade, though it goes back even earlier. It wouldn't be surprising if there was the same thing with my parents being told about or noticing signs, and then ignoring them anyway.
This is exactly why I didn't get diagnosed with autism until I was 29. Amongst other issues, like it was the late 80s.
My mom’s exact words after I got diagnosed with ADHD were, “Well, you can develop that as an adult.” Never mind that part of getting diagnosed was explaining to my psychiatrist how I struggled with all the symptoms that we’re figuring out women have more often since I was in about 2nd grade….
That's what I love about the "indoctrinating kids" crowd. I learned I was ace when I was 19. I mean, I knew I was ace when I was 5 or 6, but I learned what the word for it is, and that it's normal, and that there's other people like me and all that later on.
We have to seek out or stumble upon our queer identities a decade after we feel the feelings, we aren't brainwashed or indoctrinated into them. If anything, I was brainwashed for a decade into being cishet.
I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child but my parents didn't believe the psychiatrist because they said my sister doesn't have it, so instead of getting a second opinion, I was never treated.
I love that transphobes always say that trans people should see a psychiatrist/therapist without realizing that therapy is step 1 to transitioning and getting a prescription for HRT. What they really mean is conversion therapy and they should be honest about that
@@Sauce787 it's almost as if transphobes are completely ignorant about trans issues...
Yep.
So true, lol. “You need therapy, but you know… not REAL therapy by a trained therapist, what you need is my untrained assistance because obviously I know better than you do about what you should do with your own body☺️🌸”
They're like this about sexuality in general too, seeing as they use the exact same methods to, say, shame women for having any sort of sex drive outside of marriage.
sold for $99.99 per month for 12 months to your parents on my online course
“We’re not gonna impose this on anyone who can’t give their complete informed consent”….
Wish he held that sentiment towards the religious indoctrination of children
a lot of people on his side want to lower the age of consent for sex and marriage too. it's almost like the children aren't their actual concern.
@@mattsipe8963never was
@@mattsipe8963trust me these people will prevent even adults from getting gender reassignment surgery
is it inappropriate to mention circumcision of minors?
@@a-font I love how I’m still get notifications despite RUclips deleting my comments
It was brave of Turek to admit to gender-affirming surgery, though I think it got surprised out of him.
He almost allowed himself to realize that his surgery is no different to anybody else's, but then he had to shy away from the subject because that would have shown empathy.
He was SOOOO close!
Excactly, it boils down to empathy. For him to admit trans people deserve to get that surgery if we need it, just like he does, he'd have to consider our emotions equal in value to his, which he can't because we're the Other, or a hypothetical. We are not as human, so he can't empathize.
I personally think he was struggling because he would have to admit he took anabolic steroids. Not saying that is the only cause of GM but is the most likely because I can think of for a military man to have it. The way he was wavering and saying "its not the same" makes me think he took illicit drugs and doesnt want to admit it.
As a practicing clinical psychologist in the US I am completely sickened that a group of struggling children who need empathy, compassion, and possibly medical interventions have been turned into a hateful misinformed political punching bag for narrow minded and angry pseudo adults.
Your voice is so appreciated. That's what really held me back growing up. I had inklings that I didn't feel okay with myself. The silliest thing I remember was that I didn't like my name, I just never did. From day one, I thought it was too long and had too many syllables and anytime I heard someone calling it I would feel queasy. I was a kid, though. I didn't know anything. I was just told 'that's your name, you'll grow out of this'. But I never did.
I'm 27 now, I didn't come out until I was 21. I had to be my own support person because we moved around a lot and I never trusted people enough to let them in. I wasn't indoctrinated. I read books. I listened to other voices. Still had the mindset of "Okay, I understand this - but I don't think that's me". Until it got too much for me to bear. I was at my breaking point with my family. I wasn't in a good place. Transitioning became life or death for me. I wouldn't be here if I didn't. Now I've finished school, I'm working in the legal field and loving it, I support my wife and MIL, and I have a massive circle of friends and colleagues. I'm thriving in the life I chose to pursue because it was what's best for me.
But in these angry pseudo-adult minds, I'm just "out to get their kids"... I work from home and only go out when I have a trip planned or am running errands. So they really think we struggle, finally get to transition and then put our lives on hold (again)...just to commit hypothetical crimes?
It’s so true. Trans people are treated like a political talking point rather than actual individuals with biographical life stories. Growing up with an acute feeling of dissonance between biological sex and gender identity is already hard enough as it is. But ON TOP of that many of them have to deal with people who just want to debate them on their very existence instead of treating them like actual people. That must be so mentally exhausting. We’ve made a lot of progress, but it’s still clear that we have a lot of work to do in getting this population to be socially accepted en masse.
"And possibly medical interventions"
What do you mean by this?
@@ianmiller7735 Thank you for sharing your story! It helps many to understand what you guys have to go through. I sincerely believe that in the future, our great grandchildren will look back on our times and see how ridiculous it was that so many people outright ignored your reality in much the same way we currently look back on our ancestors for how ridiculous they were for burning “witches” and heretics at the stake.
I'd be pretty upset too if I was a pedophile who was being denied the opportunity to groom children and sate my Munchausen's syndrome by proxy. Luckily I'm not a fucking retard and don't believe in nor support the modern medical equivalent of lobotomies.
Frank could have opted for "having breasts increases likelihood of breast cancer" but I guess he wasn't concerned about that at the time.
He wouldn't have wanted to say that either because that would give anyone an easy excuse to get gender affirming care. Instead of having to argue with people like him they could just claim they did it for the health benefit. Well, some of the surgeries that is. As long as something is being removed or reduced.
What is a woman?
A woman is a term generally but not always describing an adult human who has at least some female sexual characteristics.
@@donkeyparadise9276 what is a man?
@@donkeyparadise9276 what is love?
baby don't hurt me
don't hurt me
no more
my gender dysphoria was rapid onset... 42 years. Well, if we're talking geologic time.
good one 😂
Pro tip: When a bigot Christian starts mouthing off about how being trans/gay/whatever is a sin and will get you into Hell, tell them that _they're_ the ones being corrupted by the Devil into misunderstanding Christ's teachings and doing evil in his name
Amen
But they are follow the Bible. 😂😂😂
Bro please read the Bible. It clearly states being those things are sinful. We are simply trying to tell you that not cause we hate you beacuse we are trying to help cause if it’s all true well the most loving thing we could have done was tell you instead of letting you burn for eternity
@@blakevinccent4928actually, according to the Bible if you never told anyone about Christianity then we would just be judged by our actions. Said bible also doesn’t mention trans people at all, and even has Jesus’ father be the product of a gay union.
@@blakevinccent4928 Says the uneducated religious zealot who has never even read the bibble, front to back, ever, in their life.
Typical zealots. Uneducated and naive about your own barbaric religion lmao.
Who is Frank to question god's perfect design for his body?
hypocrisy at its finest.
i was about to say the same thing,god gave him breast and then he just ungratefully throws it away.
@@absurdism-yw I just really grossed my self out thinking that those breasts had never known a lovers touch. YUK. He also wears glasses, it seems he´s not very happy with the body god gave him
Aside from all the medical intervention that the body has to undertake, the body is perfect!
As a trans person in the very red state of Missouri, thank you. Things have been difficult and it’s only gotten worse. There’s a decent chance I’ll lose my healthcare and have to leave the state and have to leave my daughter behind with my ex.
I’m one of three openly trans people in my area, and so most here are far enough removed from the issue that it doesn’t impact them on a personal level. As you can imagine, this makes them even more resistant to change.
It takes people like you sticking your neck out for us and it’s greatly appreciated.
hey! im also a trans person in (very rural) missouri! it sucks to be here but its nice to know there are others around!
Not trans but a queer person trapped in missori,it sucks but at least we are not alone
Not trans nor queer, stay strong soldier
sending prayers from rural TX!
Queer person from Missouri here, keep fighting for our rights! Never give up!
Drew, you missed the best part, where he tells people to go to a site that has a link for evidence of people regretting gender affirming surgery, and clicking on the evidence link gives a whopping 2 bullet points of evidence!
One of those bullet points is literally just a subreddit.
That reminds me of the Conservepedia, or whatever it's called, used to claim that gay men are more prone to illness and as a source they linked an article about Elton John cancelling a show due to being sick.
Sounds about right. I had someone use me as proof that hysterectomies to remove a healthy uterus is mutilation because of all the complications I had. However there are massive glaring flaws with that theory- I didn't have a healthy uterus (well unless they think healthy organs make you pass out), I didn't have complications, and (even if I'd had them) complications don't make something mutilation.
It all boils down to enforcing their idea of normalcy. That's why the hypocrisy doesn't matter to them. A man removing gynecomastia moobs is just complying with normalcy, so allowed and even required. It's not about having a coherent system of beliefs that can hold up to scrutiny because that's entirely besides the point and why such ilk tend to flounder and sputter when expected to explain. You're not supposed to question what's normal because normal is inherently good because tradition because made sense long ago and nothing ever changes. You're not supposed to go looking for the man behind the curtain, you're supposed to just stick to oversimplified "common sense" as dictated by such assholes.
This
Beautifully articulated
A person having surgery and taking hormones to alter their body to match a societal stereotype is also complying with normalcy.
You're not supposed to question which is why if you do you get labelled a transphobe.
@loganmedia1142 What normalcy are they conforming to? I was unaware that gender transition was such a common, "normal" thing.
@@loganmedia1142 Gender-affirming medical care isn’t about meeting societal standards. It’s about the body matching the brain’s expectations.
For example, people who lose limbs in accidents or to disease (such as cancer) can experience phantom limb syndrome because their brains experience the change to the physical self as traumatic. (It’s why we have body horror as a horror genre.) Gender-affirming medical procedures for trans people are the alleviation of body horror.
I had boobs for over 2 decades. You’d expect my brain to experience a double mastectomy as traumatic because a huge chunk of my flesh was removed, right? But it was the total opposite. I’ve honestly had a harder time adjusting to shorter haircuts than I did a flat chest.
12:47 “if biological variations of these gender categories don’t call for new categories themselves, then these categories are not strictly biological” this is such a strong argument and so succinctly stated. If Turek’s gynecomastia wasn’t a normal variation of being a man, then he’s either arguing that he was born in a body that didn’t correspond with his gender identity (“I was always a man!”) and needed gender affirming care or else he is something other than *man* or *woman*, neither of which I imagine he’d be comfortable with admitting, even if one is obviously true.
What he was doing is the same thing "transgender" people are doing, being conformist. That's why he and they actually have a lot in common. They're all conservatives.
What's it going to take to get people to just mind their own business about sex and gender?
Virtually anything else in life impacts you more. God this isn't complicated.
the moment the trans activists stop screaming for attention every single day and try to advocate for invasive surgery and hormone treatments for children against their parents will most normal people will stop caring.
because if they didn't obsess with this then they'd have to deal with the bullshit in their lives. Far easier to blame everything on queer people than to deal with your own issues.
What it's going to take is them eventually finding another group to demonize in order to advance their agendas.
i agree,therefore bioligical women should be allowed to compete in a safe and fair environment without men,and waiters etc should be allowed to get on with their jobs without fear of misgendering a man in a dress wearing lipstick
We have to evolve past our foolish superstitions, and embrace science and provable evidence.
That's why we exemplify evidential medicine and science, we use science because we can demonstrate how it works.
No one has yet convincingly demonstrated that God exists or that true miracles can be demonstrated to be supernatural.
In only a few decades we have learned to build what were considered 'super computers' that used to take up entire buildings, and now we have them in our pockets. And we still foolishly see them as magic boxes that make us into super geniuses simply by using them.
We have the sum total of human knowledge at our finger tips and some people simply don't know what to do with that information. We use science every day and deny the validity of the scientific marvels we've developed.
We could have the universe at our fingertips, if only we were willing to trust science itself and leave our old, foolish beliefs behind in history, where they belong.
It's time to find new things to believe in.
I'm proud to say that not only have we banned forced conversion "therapy" in my state of Kentucky, but we also shot down Prop 2 which would have siphoned money from public schools to private/charter schools.
🎉🎉🎉
Heck yeah, that’s awesome! Those are big wins for staving off religious encroachment into education and healthcare.
Congrats!
“Gender affirming care” IS conversion therapy. What hypocrisy.
@@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic Several Nations Are Restricting or Backing Away from Puberty Blockers and
Cross-Sex Hormones for Minors
A growing number of nations, including some that pioneered medical transitions, are
reversing course. Health authorities and medical associations in England, Sweden, Finland,
France, Australia, and New Zealand are warning against, and even curtailing the use of
puberty blockers, hormones, and surgeries on children with gender dysphoria:
• Sweden: The country’s main gender clinic will no longer authorize puberty blockers
and hormones to be given to minors under the age of 16 because “the risks of
Written Testimony on KY H.B. 470 Page 5
puberty suppressing treatment … and gender-affirming hormonal treatment currently
outweigh the possible benefits … based on ... continued lack of reliable scientific
evidence concerning the efficacy and the safety of both treatments.”
• Finland: The country severely restricts the use of puberty blockers and hormones
except for exceptional case after extensive psychiatric assessment of the child, warning
that “no decisions should be made that can permanently alter a still-maturing minor’s
mental and physical development.”
• United Kingdom: Recently, the National Health Service eliminated their “gender clinic”
model of care, suspended the use of puberty blockers and hormones except for purely
research purposes, and instead announced that “psychological support” and “a
watchful approach” are the recommend treatment for gender dysphoria.
• France: The National Academy of Medicine issued a statement urging “great medical
caution” when working with children experiencing gender dysphoria “given the
vulnerability, particularly psychological, of this population and the many undesirable
effects, and even serious complications, that some of the available therapies can
cause.”
• Australia & New Zealand: The Royal Australian and New Zealand College of
Psychiatrists recently emphasized that treatments for gender dysphoria should focus
on psychotherapy and address “co-existing issues which may need addressing and
treating.”
In other words, these countries are putting psychological treatment and counseling at the
forefront of caring for these children, who often suffer from other psychiatric conditions, not puberty blockers, hormones, or surgeries
@@larschristianalm It is used as for trans people to help them with other matters, and it is not used to treat gender dysphoria because it is useless here.
Turek stands for nothing. His arguments hop around and contradict each other like fleas on an infested hyena. He'll say anything to win an argument, and he can't even do _that_ right.
he stands against religion but only the kind of religion that preaches peace and doesn't hit back
Hi Fluttershy
i started my medical transition at age 27, despite wanting to be a girl as early as puberty. every day i grieve over how much better my transition could hav been.
I understans how you feel, i found out i was 16. Ive been on a waiting list to get care since, im now 25 n still have nothing in terms of medication.
Its unreal how long it takes to get anywhere and im frankly very exhausted emotionally
That's the thing...the healthiest time to transition is earlier than 26, but the "lovers of human life" want to force it as late as possible...and then mock people for not being masculine/feminine enough after transition. But, you know, christian love.
Same
I'm not necessarily interested in sex toys, but those euphemisms in the ad were so good I feel almost compelled to support, lol
x2, I laughed out loud and told my ex religious spouse about it lmao
Is there any good deal though?
@@bazooka712 there was actually! Lots of the items were really expensive, but the promotional cut down the price by more than half in some cases. Great for someone who is mildly interested in trying something new
As a trans person living in the United States, I really appreciate this video. I wish people could understand that people should be able to do what they want with their bodies, and that we should respect everyone’s identity.
@@phantom8926trans people just living is "pushing it on others"?
Also what about religion, why should pushing religion on others be allowed?
@@phantom8926Respecting what another person prefers to be called isn’t forcing anything on anyone.
As a trans person do you respect the rights of cis people who don't agree with your lifestyle or are you simply intolerant?
@@Reed5016This! People could spin the same hate around cis people changing their names for any reason. Do they? No!!! How are trans people any different???
@@alg11297 Tolerance is overrated. The thing that matters is respecting what someone wants to be called. I’ll respect what a cis person wants to be called, and expect the same from them.
I've watched your channel for a while so I'm not surprised by this, but thank you for supporting trans people during this difficult time. I can't say how much this means to me as a trans guy just having people defend us endlessly
Be careful you dont get too comfortable with ppl defending you. After all you are you, its good to have support at times but the ppl defending you are not always good either. In the end you have to stand up as you are yourself.......and sometime its not even a need to defend yourself, its just misunderstandings and diffrent meanings of words.
@@skagenpige88Thanks but I already know that just from existing as a trans person lol
I very much share the sentiment!
With trans people only representing about 2% of the population, and most anti-trans people not taking us seriously because they think we're mentally ill, I'm so glad there are a lot of cis allies who are informed enough about our struggles to be able and willing to come to our defense.
My son is trans...I'll always have his back, and yours.
@@njhoepner Awww that's so sweet! It's so nice to hear from a supportive parent. How's his journey goin? I always like to hear lil moments of trans joy, getting a 1st binder, using a new name. Anything that makes them happy is beautiful to see ^v^
The notion that a book-a product of human consciousness and culture-could demand belief for organized religion, all while degrading humanity as nothing more than wretched rags unworthy of dignity, is nothing short of contemptible. It’s an insult to human potential, creativity, and worth. You are not some pitiable, groveling creature; you are worthy of admiration, including your own. Celebrate your existence, your mind, and your humanity, and reject the degrading nonsense of anyone that seeks to diminish you. Never let a faith convince you that you are less than magnificent.
Periodt! I was born gay and I always felt okay with that until my own parents started making me feel insecure/uncomfortable about my own sexuality or mannerisms.
Based as hell
Your speech has Arcane Victor vibes and I'm here for it. Good speech
Damn that's powerful
@@purple66666 Arcane referenced! Love that show so much
As someone with a bachelor in psych and a masters in sexology, I extremely appreciate you making these videos. Your discussion is perfect in so many ways.
The inmates are running the asylum.
@@thesecondhat4717 Why? We're crazy because we understand and appreciate that the human species is more complex and varied than you personally might be comfortable with?
@@thesecondhat4717Gasp, it’s almost like the people who’ve studied and learned about this topics, and dedicated their lives to them MIGHT actually know what they’re talking about!
@@thesecondhat4717yes trump and his reprobate cronies will be running the asylum very soon
The age of consent is 18 or 21 depending on state and what is being consented to? Why should consent for surgery require an age of 26? This is another example of conservatives changing the rules to suit their needs.
I really wonder if they really care about kids?
The idea that an adult (18) can't do something because a government feels they are too young is repugnant to our Constitution. We send our 18 year olds to war. Nothing should be denied them due to age.
18 is old enough to fight in the war but you gotta be 21+ to do any sort of drug used to cope. Tobacco/Nicotine, Alcohol and Weed are all now 21+ federally
@@P_D-px6iv you can also sell all of those things too when you turn 18. It's so weird knowing the names of cigarettes before even being allowed to smoke.
@@sandwichqueen In some states like my own (WV) it's even younger than that. Teens can sell/serve alcohol at 16 here as long as they are directly supervised by someone 21+.
The sponsor intro was wild
4:28
Dear trans folks, remember there are cis/hets like this man who care and won't let you be erased 💙💜
@@phantom8926+
@@phantom8926 you didnt have to comment that and from the outside you could think that your feeling got hurt pls get help and dont hesitate to ask question to people who know what they are talking about to understand this topic
@@suffistsee, it’s funny, cause trans people were getting hate before sports came into it. It’s almost like, I don’t know, people who hate trans folks will find any excuse to hate on them and see them as a threat 🤷♀️
@@abbywolf9701 I just had a thought. The person you responded to is not here, so I am assuming their comment was deleted. Yet it is still here contained in your response. I wonder if people who say nasty things have figured out that they can get deleted, and still have their bad ideas out there???? Again, I just noticed it because there are only responses, and no original comments.
NOW THEY GONNA LOVE U BRO
We need to bring the term 'moral panic' back to the common lexicon.
It demonstrates religion perfectly.
This reminds me of the uproar over D&D back in the eighties, the panic over 'satanic music' or even rock and roll and the 'war on drugs'.
I'm sick and tired of these people.
"Free will is a myth,
Religion is a joke.
We are all pawns, controlled by something greater...
Memes, the DNA of the soul!
They are the culture: they are everything we pass on!"
-Monsoon, Metal Gear Rising
Already commented but I’d just like to add that I transitioned as a minor in a very rural and conservative part of Florida almost 10 years ago.
I had the privilege of going on hormone replacement therapy at 16 and got chest masculinizing surgery (aka top surgery) at 17.
I was also able to graduate high school with my chosen name, David, and not my dead name - something I’ve fantasized about since I first discovered concept of graduation!
Everything that happened was necessary because anything less would have lead to a brutal suicide. I was in a horrific place mentally before my transition, but hormones and surgery allowed me to be an ecstatic and wildly successful adult.
Every gram of success I’ve ever experienced is thanks to my transition, and I will stop at nothing to provide that some opportunity to kids just like me.
It’s so good to hear that you got the support you needed and that you’re thriving! I bet seeing your chosen name on your diploma was awesome. I’m happy to join you in the fight to give folks the opportunity you had. 🫡🏳️⚧️
This is exactly why a lot of trans adult defend trans kids. Most trans adults were trans kids.
@@sandwichqueen yep. Even if we didn't know the right words, many of us knew. I didn't learn the word trans till 16, but at 11 I was calling puberty torture and saying it should be made illegal.
@@waffles3629 yeah. I didn't have the words until after I came out funny enough. The reason it seems like trans people randomly popped up more in the last 2 decades was due to social media really expanding in the last 2 decades. People who otherwise didn't have the words suddenly did.
The internet is what helped me learn all the vocabulary. The most harmful thing about learning about trans people is bigotry.
@@sandwichqueen yep, it's like left handedness, it suddenly "exploded" how many people were left handed, well after people stopped being whacked with rulers (or even worse things) to force them to be right handed. When something stops being discriminated against at heavily it is safer for people to be openly that thing. Like there are still people who think being left handed is evil, but not many. There are still people who think interracial couples shouldn't be allowed to get married, but not as many as there used to be. The same thing is happening with gay and trans people right now.
The cognitive dissonance at display when asked about his surgery affirming his gender was revealing 😂
Calling it "gender affirming" is quite the stretch just because it happens to be tissue that we tie gender to. If he had an abnormal growth on his forehead removed that wouldn't be considered gender affirming, but because boobs are, it is? Cis people having "gender affirming care" is such a strawman.
@@5-Voltuh, yeah? It’s not like it wasn’t healthy.
@@HungryWarden So? It made him uncomfortable, so he had it removed. It's an assumption that it had relevance to gender for him. If a woman has breast reduction surgery, is that gender affirming _just_ because it pertains to a gendered body part? In that instance & using this flawed logic she would be making herself "less feminine."
@ ok, maybe you’re right. Your second example made more sense.
It’s such a huge stretch to call it gender affirming care and it trivializes actual gender affirming care. These arguments trivialize trans people.
Shaving legs, growing a beard, going to the gym, wearing makeup would all be classed as “gender affirming”.
My main question is why people care? How could someone deciding to change their gender possibly worsen your life? A trans person gets to feel more comfortable with their own body, and nothing gets worse for you.
It is quite literally an ideological discussion, one that directly alters society in the case of trans sports. Whether or not someone can be born in the wrong body, or whether the transition of minors is ethical, are important topics to people because this impacts fundamental aspects of our lives.
You can't actually change your sex, only your outward appearance. But yes adults can do whatever they want to their body, alter it in any way they like. What's not appropriate is hormones, puberty blockers, etc. for anyone who is not yet an adult.
@@Viral9 And really difficult to have a rational discussion about it with fanatics on both sides.
@@loganmedia1142 You are talking to someone actively pushing genocide and consider the sides the same.
Please get informed instead of allowing such horrendous views to thrive.
@@loganmedia1142 so you think it's a good idea for 4 year olds to go through puberty then? You think that's appropriate??
That sketch between the kid and mom was scarily accurate
Eerily so. Many such cases 🥲
I experienced basically what happened in the skit with my mom... I found the right words in freshman year of high school, at age 14. Genderfluid. The way I internally experience gender is so, so fluid. I didn't even try to tell my mom until I was 22. When I did? Instead of my friend group, she blamed my teachers who helped me not only graduate high school but prevented me from pressing delete on myself. Sigh...
People don't have to be 100% masculine or feminine. They can even change as they choose. But such ideas would be considered transphobic.
@@loganmedia1142 are you talking about gender expression or gender experience?
Sounds about right. My spawn points blamed friends I made **after coming out*!!* Apparently it's a time traveling contagion now?
@@loganmedia1142 Being genderfluid has nothing to do with gender PRESENTATION, hun 😂
Absolutely priceless, watching the cogs turn as a cis guy is forced to confront his own gender identity for the first time, as a thing that is more complex, neither 100% biological nor 100% imposed, while ON STAGE and under internal and social pressure to not only repress that self-exploration, but deny its significance or relevance! Trying desperately to get back on track with his presentation after having said too much.
I found it hilarious for the exact same reasons
Or just maybe males do not have big boobs? :)
@@Qq-xs1fz So he's not male and it was definitely gender affirming surgery?
@@goodpeople25cis people access gender affirming care
@@Qq-xs1fz so he's not a male then? He had boobs, so by your logic he's not male.
IMO a lot of popular atheists are just as bad as this guy on trans issues you should push back on them
Old Man Dawkins...
Working on it!
@@GeneticallyModifiedSkepticdefinitely looking forward to this one!
@@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic bless your heart ❤️ I'm very good at debating religious folks because I'm religious and queer but it's frustrating for me to deal with skeptics who say horrible misogynistic and transphobic things wrapped into pseudoscience (like evolutionary psychology)
@@sergei_mikhailovich He's still mad after losing that naked fight in the park to a swan.
As a member of the Alphabet Mafia myself, (demi-boy/bisexual) my deconstruction started when I came out to my church friends. It was as if I'd been telling them a lie my entire life, because a "True Christian" couldn't be anything but cisgender and heterosexual. I believed, and didn't even have to do as much special pleading to accept my existence as others did to invalidate me. I have been considering a small amount of gender-affirming care, but am scared of how my remaining Christian friends would react. I appreciate everything you're doing for the queer community. I would like to thank you from the bottom of my heart for being a voice against this bigotry, as this adds yet more voices that will support me through this journey that I wish to undertake.
A sponsorship of adult toys… I’m not even mad, that’s a screwball I wasn’t expecting. And it’s going to a good cause!
I cannot get over the methology for the ROGD study. "My study found that people on transgendertrend think being transgender is a trend!!" that's craaaazy bro no way lmfao
That's basically every study on the subject, from both sides. "All patients, who keep coming back to us, are satisfied".
@@Qq-xs1fz Factually untrue and this is close to genocide denial.
Get informed before tipping into it.
@@Qq-xs1fz maybe you should stop lying, especially if this is the best you can do... the only thing worse than a liar, is a mediocre liar.
I whole heartedly agree with Frank Turek's position that circumcisions should only be allowed after age 25.
I even disagree on that. 18, or 16 with consent of the parents. To me it's similar to a tattoo, piercing or breast implants.
I might be wrong here but isn't it painful for a few days after you got the circumcision? Why would anyone want this?
@@Andre-zw5kl That's the point. Nobody would want this, most people have it done involuntarily shortly after they're born. Except for in some cultures (usually Islamic cultures) where there's a big ceremony and everything that's performed while the kids are old enough to remember it. It's painful, it can be fucked up in a variety of ways, and it's entirely unnecessary.
@@Duskbound got it. I was stuck in a cultural difference as I'm french and we don't really see circucised people. My best friend it's muslim and he told me how nasty this thing was for him.
@@Andre-zw5kl Circumcision at birth is extremely common within evangelical Christianity, which highlights the absurdity of their complaints about supposed genital mutilation of children.
"The way out of that is not surgery according to the data." You mean the data that says HRT and gender affirming surgery reduces gender dysphoria?
I saw a Christian psychologist for 10 years before finally coming out as trans. Didn't help.
Been out for 5 years, on HRT 3.75 years. I've had an orchie. I feel the best I have since pre-puberty. Because the sex hormones balance was the problem all along.
4:28 this transition to the sponsor is.... wild O.O xD
“It had nothing to do with my gender. It had to do with the fact that it looked really odd.”
The lack of self awareness 🤦🏻🙄
That’s how dysphoric trans people feel!!!! It looks odd and out of place and transitioning is so awkward and ON TOP of that society acts all weird and make it about gender, but really we just want to not feel/look awkward. That’s like 95% of my experience of dysphoria!!! God damn!!!
Thanks for talking about this, my guy. 👍🏻 I started watching your videos when you left a toxic Christian community and now am watching you speak up about other human rights issues. ^^
These people get so triggered when people “break the norms” but these people are the furtherest from normal 😭
I think that’s why they get so triggered being called ‘weird’
Some of them are straight up unhinged lol.
And people who call themselves transgender also don't want to break the norms. That's the whole point of surgery and hormones, to conform to a stereotype.
“People who need one, tidy, supposedly objective definition of religion, do so because they want a useful tool with which to accomplish their rhetorical and ideological goals.”
That could apply to so much more than just religion.
Sponsor spot, not for me but absolutely killed me and alone almost got me to buy in.
things are super scary right now; thank you for fighting for us
Even since tRump got elected, roving bands of mad doctors in white vans have been kidnapping trans women off of the streets and stitching their weenies back on.
The horror.
That joke about crying to God after the second coming is the funniest thing you've ever said and I just wanted to acknowledge that
Agreed 🙏
The one and only time I've ever seen an ounce of humanity, of actual regret, self-awareness, and an acknowledgment (only to himself) that he was wrong, and Frank just brushed it off after that instant of realization.
After years and years of debates I'm starting to realize these arguments are kinda useless. It's like trying to talk a slave owner out of owning slaves by saying "but what if someone enslaved you instead? You wouldn't like that, would you?" as if his real underlying position wasn't "we're just better than them"
The real position is more like "Oh well. Either me or them." That's the reality of it.
Yep. Trying to talk somebody out of hurting somebody when they benefit from hurting them is like thinking you can convince a guy man to stop killing people. maybe you can talk somebody who was already on the fence and has other options, plus already was considering the ethics of it, but that's like 10% if them or less. Most in that line of work know what they are doing, know it's evil, know how lucrative it is, and ultimately don't give a fuck about that other stuff, so long as they can live a good life, have fun, escape the consequences and sail into the sunset.
That's why we outlawed slavery, rather than thinking people would give up slavery willingly. Hell, it's been 160 years and they are still clinging into slavery.
I love the science illiteracy of the gender critical. The confidence with which they assert fallacious assumptions and unwarranted conclusions is a definite sign that they are ignorant of how science even works.
Absolutely. This is why gender critical people and Christian apologists get along so well: the apologist guys have been doing over confident pseudointellectualism for centuries already.
you are the kind of person cheering for thalidomide and shouting at everybody who is sceptical.
@@KT-pv3klwut?
@@KT-pv3kl you are the type of person who writes sceptical
We are not the ignorant ones
You're a great and supportive ally, Drew, thank you!!!
'because it looked odd' implies he would have been fine with having 'normal looking' boobs
That's a point in his favor no? Because if true, then it wouldn't have anything to do with gender & just be pure body dysmorphia.
@@5-Volt He and you are liars remember?
It also just sounds like it could be gender dysphoria
I wonder if you heard of unethical experiment on twin boys. They took one boy and gave him a sex change. The parents raised him as a girl for his childhood. When he reached adulthood he was confused. He felt like a guy in a woman's body. Eventually he found out what happened and committed suicide. I think this supports trans people mentality. It's not a disease or sin.
That one example of the twin boys only PROVES that making someone live perceived as someone they are not is not healthy, trans people are BORN with their sex and gender misaligned, that's why they experience dysphoria just like those two cisgender kids were made to experience, they weren't and couldn't be "turned" trans, because trans people just are, they aren't made artificially in human bodies.
This whole example proves gender affirming care IS necessary, that the other boy NEEDED to be perceived as a boy for his own sake, and that we should allow them to be as such.
@@HITMANPegas David Reiner, and you’d be amazed how many transphobic people think his case backs them up.
You might be referring to a report from Johns Hopkins University, by John Money and Anke Ehrhardt (in 1972).
The one twin's genitals had been damaged beyond salvaging in a botched circumcision, so after a lot of deliberation the parents decided to give him a sex change and raise him as a girl.
As you describe, he struggled, and contemplated suicide (but made no attempts as far as I know).
He survived, learned what had happened, and transitioned back to being a man. He was interviewed by the psychologist Milton Diamond in 1997.
The story features pretty prominently in the gender chapter of Judith Rich Harris' 1998 book The Nurture Assumption, which you got me to pull off my shelf and review 👍
@@AnotherCraig I know one of the twins committed suicide. I don't remember which one.
The Story of David Reimer: A Transgender Experiment ruclips.net/video/SLFGMWoQaCU/видео.html
It was so long ago I could not remember the details.
@@HITMANPegas Ah, thanks. Yes, in 2004. It sounds like it might have been related to an impending divorce, but regardless, the whole story is a tragedy that very easily could've been avoided.
Still, it's illustrative.
Though we always have some learning to do, we are all the one and only experts on our individual identities. And that identity is ultimately its own thing, independent of outside expectations and pressures.
"Whoever saves a life saves the world entire." I may not be religiously Jewish anymore but there are parts of the culture I have still adopted.
During the video you referred to another video that you published about 8 months ago. I know you went through a lot just to put the video out. Tons of scripting and research. Careful and rigid work.
Thank you.
I listened to that video several times a week for several weeks until I got the courage to come out at work and used its sources to talk with my doctor and to try to open conversation with family and friends.
I was having a lot of trouble when you published it, things were very dark, and now even despite the political climate being darker, I am doing a lot better.
And I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Thank you, Drew, confirmed savior of the world.
This is why I don't really like debates like these. Both sides go away thinking they won, and that the other side is stupid. No one reflects on their own position. No one learns.
Thank you as always for your thoughtful response to anti-trans bigotry, Drew. We need it more than ever now.
Debate *spectacle& some might say. See Angela Collier Castro's video "long live scientific debate."
Exactly. It lets the memes* run wild in society. The only thing that can stop it is a meme promoting self-reflection and good argumentation. And so we must make like a butter knife and spread it.
*Meme: a self-replicating cultural idea.
In this case, the person they are trying to convince isn’t the one they are debating, but rather the audience. So both parties can still end the debate believing themselves to be correct, but the “winner” is the one who convinced the most to their side.
This revelation from Frank is shocking.
I think a little more pressure would have revealed the truth: Frank had the surgery because other guys in the Navy said it made him look like a woman. They made jokes. There was social pressure.
The more I think about this dramatic revelation, I'm like, is this Frank's origin story? Was his treatment as a young cis man who was viewed as slightly feminine a trigger to push him into persecuting others?
I have had to deal with gender dysphoria my entire life. But with a twist. I was born with a sexual development issue that had its origins in sexual development during my gestation. I had several surgeries as a child and even a nasty case of cancer as an adult. Long before my surgeries as a child I knew that I wasn't male because if felt it deep down. Then at age ten the reality of my failure to sexually mature. My DNA is male but I developed a form of ovarian cancer because my right testis was a ovotestis and the other teatis failed to grow to normal adult size..
The sad part of all this I cannot transition to female because taking estrogen would cause my ovarian based cancer to return. That makes me intersex but there is a connection to the transgender community at the same time.
Yet the pain of gender dysphoria is still apart of my soul, deep deep down I am female. Clearly my bodies biology is leaning toward the female side as well as the phycological side.
I'm so sorry, I feel your pain ):
You aren't the only intersex transgender person here. My story is private but I understand even if my story is almost opposite.
@@chey7691 Intersex takes many forms. There are at least 40 forms of it. In fact many people with it may never know they have it at all.
That sounds rough.
I doubt it's anything new, but the advice I can give is to remember that women come in many forms. A definition is basically impossible. So focus less on the type of woman you want to be and focus more on the woman you can become.
Basically what I'm saying is, play to your strengths in, but do it in a way you like.
@@Cool-Vest I
The nature of my body demands I be androgynous. Even as a child I would be mistaken as a girl but not so much as an adult. Psychiatry is only needed as phycological protection from religious nut cases.
I have been married for many decades and we made our marriage work though love.
I have had several dozen surgeries just to survive and none to become to person deep in side.
My spouse was a very conservative christian and she has pushed aside her beliefs to love me for who I am. So from my point that counts as a win.
18:32 "Don't you think it's a problem that academics can't agree on the definition of..."
planet?
religion?
consciousness?
autism?
gravity?
etc.
Turns out, definitions are just tools we use to describe things, and have no intrinsic connection to anything they describe.
However, this feeds into an earlier point: if you define something distinctly when there is actually nuance, then you can dismiss anything which doesn't fit your definition as "broken" or any other kind of exception. Usually this is done by pathologizing things. _Intersex is not common, therefore it's a disorder that should be fixed. ADHD is not common, therefore it's a disorder that should be fixed. Gynecomastia is not common, therefore it's a disorder that should be fixed. Pluto is a planet because that's how I was raised. Evolution doesn't happen because dogs are dogs and cats are cats._
People with these opinions think that the entire universe was created with neat, discrete categories for everything. The complete overturn of this philosophy has been happening increasingly in scientific fields since the 1800s. Just about the only thing we have yet to find nuance in is the laws of thermodynamics (which, ironically, are used frequently and hilariously incorrectly in apologetics circles).
Right on. In the largest and smallest contexts, everything we think and know (… and about what we THINK we know) about existence is bullshit … it’s incomplete because as humans we have the most infinitessimal sliver of experience and understanding. Our understanding is only functional if it gets us through today. But it might not bear out tomorrow. That’s the closest thing we have to a fact, and it’s the best one to keep in mind.
20:57
Sooo... if one can't be trans until they are 26 for their "complete and formal consent"... then isn't it preying on children to force them to accept Christ? Join the military? Get married? All of those have life long effects, too.
My daughter is trans. There's nothing wrong with her. She's not experiencing a disorder. She hasn't changed. She's still the same person I've always loved with all my heart. She's got a massive brain, a wicked sense of humor, and empathy for days and days. She's just trans. My feelings for her are never going to change. Not ever. I'm her father. Full stop.
Thank you so much for allowing your daughter to live her life unburdened by gender dysphoria. I hope she's doing well! As a trans person who has to hide my identity from parents, it's a constant source of anxiety and struggle that you would never want to see your child experience.
You might be as delusional as "she" is.
@venturer9400 It's never been a question for me. It shouldn't be for any thinking, caring person. I am terribly sorry that you feel the need to covert yourself. I find that alarming. Trans people have existed since there were, y'know, people. I assure you that there is nothing wrong with you. The problem exists on the other side of the human experience, when people are incapable of overcoming their cultural beliefs. You are perfectly fine as you are. I would give you a hug if I could, but I only hope that you'll take these encouragements on your journey with you. Be proud of who you are. Have strength, learn wisdom, and please, I beg you, find a way to lead a safe and happy life. All my best.
@@hime273If you are a mind reader then mind your own business.
@@ericthompson3982
I'm sure your views and had absolutely nothing to do with your child being 'Trans," and it was a just a totally organic process, with zero medical interventions....Right?
I haven’t even watched the whole video, but the sponsor segment alone is possibly the best thing I’ve ever seen
A Christian guy here. Thanks for this message. Please keep calling this stuff out.
That woman who questioned Turek is amazing! So well spoken, calm and on point 😍
As 19 year old, I recently thought about the argument that "the brain isn't fully formed until 26".
I think that judgements based on the capabilities of a group should be based on ... testing that group for these capabilities.
And it turns out that there is only a very small difference between the executive functions of legal adults of any age.
For me this sadly just means that I can not expect to become a significantly better decision maker.
As someone with a PhD in neuroscience, "the brain isn't fully formed until 26" is a bunch of bullshit. The brain never "finishes" developing - it's always changing. Also, notice how the people who argue "people under 26 should have fewer rights because the brain isn't fully developed" never argue in favor of taking rights away from people over ~60, despite mental decline in seniors.
Can we ban non consensual circumcision now?
“We can’t be encouraging them to do these irreversible things to their perfectly healthy bodies” says the man who got an irreversible surgery to his perfectly healthy body.
Nono, you see, breast growth in men is not healthy, unless those men are trans ofcourse
2:53, saw many go thru this. Certain Asian American friends kept it secret totally as they knew their parents would NOT accept that.
man genetically modified skeptic sounds alot more sassy in this video, im here for it
I was thinking the same, and yeah, me too.
Gender affirming care is also for cis people. He's so close to understanding why we trans do it, yet his religious prejudice forces him into advocating for us to be denied what was available for him. Why didn't he just go to the psychiatrist to help him accept his body as it was, just as God designed it?
“It looked really odd” Sir, that’s literally what gender affirming care is about 😂
Fun fact about the "brains aren't fully developed until 25" thing: that's a misinterpretation of the data. Brains continue to develop after 25.
“I had it removed………… because………. it looked…… odd.” Kind of what some trans men might say. And we all saw those wheels moving in his brain… thinking…. “damn… how can I spin this without giving a similarity good excuse to trans folks”?!
A man removing that is completely different from when a woman does it
@@Mi56-u7h Removing naturally grown breast tissue is different to removing naturally grown breast tissue?
@roundhouse2616 removing naturally grown breast issue because you're a woman with issues is completely different than when a man does it, sorry not sorry you will never be like men and comparing your surgery to his doesn't make you any less femaIe
@roundhouse2616 the difference is
he's a man, you're a woman. completely different reason.
@roundhouse2616 his reason is valid and he's a he, you're not.
Thank you so much for using your platform and talking about this!
If you have any trans friends/family, check up on them. Make sure they're okay. We need that support.
holy hell that sponsorship segue killed me
Absolutely legendary. 😂
You might be surprised that this is the first time I have heard about Closet. As a queer person, I thank you!😀
There's no greater hate than christian love.
I remember being told by my doctor I had gynecomastia as a kid. I had no concept of it looking wrong, but it did feel swollen and itchy like a cyst. It went away on its own. But when I hear about someone who has or had it, my thoughts go to it being physically uncomfortable.
So should people not own a gun, drive, get married, go to war and so on, until people are 26?
I mean, I wouldn’t mind if people waited until 26 to get married
@@Mandy87Marie I agree, but these religious people love to marry young.
Of course they aren’t saying that at all because that will mean that they gotta wait 8 more years until locking themselves and Little Timmy in the bathroom doesn’t count as statutory rape.
i wish anti trans arguments were honest
because they always boil down to
- i think it's icky (from secular people)
- i think you're violating some cosmic divine law (from religious people)
It's never been about anything else.
The other thing is about fearmongering around swindling people into decisions with permanent effects.
Obviously it's a flawed argument. Plenty of safeguards are in place, and it is decently reversible.
What I'm trying to say is "keep your enemies closer".
It's often both. Few people actually live completely secularly and obviously religious people love disgust.
@@Cool-Vest That's just poorly disguised ableism.
@@goodpeople25 Not exactly. The real things they're afraid of are regret and groupthink. A combination of echo-chambed media and confirmation bias means that that is all they see.
Though, of course, ableism is deeply rooted in culture. Self-reflecting enough to root it out is difficult and painful, and is even harder to do for groups.
Not that I agree with their opinions. I see dysphoria as a psychological disorder and transition as the treatment. Simple point. Easily defendable. Forces opponents to re-evaluate their viewpoints, building momentum.
Take a debate class. It'll change your life.
@@Cool-Vest What a thing to say to a stranger who is proved correct with a mere glance at the ableism in this very comment section .
"Well _my_ situation is different because it affects MEEEEEEEE!" -- Frank Turek, unapologetic hypocrite
Very similar to the "the only moral abortion is my abortion" argument. Rules for thee, not for me. As you say, hypocritical.
“It had nothing to do with my gender, it just had everything to do with my gender”
Drew, thank you so so much for speaking out for queer and trans folks like myself. I actually lived in Austin for 16 years and finally left last December, mainly because it was becoming more and more apparent that I was not going to be able to live as myself there. My trans girlfriend fled Florida as well, and we're happily living together in PA (although we're both very upset over our new state going to Trump). Having allies like you who are calling this bigotry and transphobia out for what it is helps so much and gives me at least some modicum of hope.
Also, that sponsor segue way had me laughing my ass off, just brilliant!
I thought God did not make mistakes. Maybe God wanted Frank to have breasts.
I was familiar with a woman who was a pioneer in transgender studies. Her view on therapy was that it was essential for the most successful outcomes for those who transition. From my view, gender dysphoria must be confusing for the individual and therapy is useful in sorting through the confusion. It is sensible to believe that those who sort through any confusion and who develop strategies for dealing with the hostilities of a generally nonaccepting public will have much better outcomes when they choose to transition their gender.
My understanding (at least in UK) is that counselling is compulsory to be considered for surgery. Therapy is important; in facing the big wide world and coping skills.
And the most that can happen before 18 is puberty delaying medication (which has been used without question to treat Precocious Puberty - so eg a 5 yr doesn't need to deal with menstruation) But suddenly to treat teens with this reversible option is evil.
And if someone makes a social transition and decides later that they are not trans - then the process of exploring has done its task just as much as if they decide they are trans. A more androgynous childhood - not thinking names and pronouns but in clothing; activities; play etc would be healthy. When girls are told that being a girl = princesses and pink; and they know they are not that - then they may question their identity when they could be comfortable with a less boxed in gender definition.
Eg I am not a 'girly girl' in my womanhood; I am not sure what it is to define 'feeling female' but equally I am not repulsed by it. I just am myself and my body is female plumbed. So very, very different to the clearly Trans experience - but the more genders are boxed in then more people within the natural spectrum may feel that they don't connect anywhere.
Whilst a more androgynous or genderfluid childhood would mean that it is not a fixed point of saying 'from next monday....' in social exploration, which can make it feel negative if the exploration doesn't lead to a trans identity.
Pffff the sponsor transition got a genuine laugh out of me
Only fair that a 'transition' be done so well in this video
Not only does all of this presuppose God, it also presupposes that every decision God makes is immutable and unchangeable. Yet scripture describes God as changing his mind, making mistakes, and regretting what he's done all the time, and many forms of theology admit this. Nature is constantly in flux, all living things change, people can have differences in the way they develop, and individuals can change over the course of their lifetime. To put it simply, you're not the same person you were when you were born. You are going to have different needs in the future than you do now, or did when you were growing up. Change isn't just the norm, it's also inevitable.
I expected everything but a sex toy ad with religious puns 😂
I always find it interesting that they dont seem to be up in aws about young girls getting breast implants. Why not ban all cosmetic surgery until 26 then too, Turic? Because why should young people be allowed to make descisions at all? It's so convoluted and they dont really have a leg to stand on. Its just so they can hate on a group of people and feel good about it.
Hate is a strong motivator for hipocrisy
Okay so shall we also not let people into churches until after they’re 26? We wouldn’t want to influence vulnerable minds into believing something they otherwise wouldn’t….