Look at Radiant Citadel. It was touted for being written by POCs, but half of the adventures are X culture's biggest festival that white people know about.
@@robgraham5320It is funny in that you can see how blind they are to their own deep stupidity. Remember, these are the same people who think hating people of certain appearance is fine, but not others...
one thing to note. it all look so modern. it's not medieval fantasy. looks like people Larping an oldschool modern fantasy. its like Shadowrun but downscaled from Cyberpunk to Low Tech Western punk.
It's very much got that contemporary fantasy style inspired by tumblr that makes no effort to put you into a different culture. There's a furry OC familiar, the elves are all colored like that Hades & Persephone webcomic, there's punk haircuts everywhere and the cultural inspirations appear to be deathly allergic to the medieval era, much less Europe.
Neither does traditional D&D art, technically. D&D has never looked very Medieval. It looks like an amalgamation of 20th century sword and sorcery tropes, 20th century Naturalism aesthetics, and some really bangled ideas about Early Modern fashion with a few vaguely and superficially Medieval elements scattered about. D&D art has always looked like modern people larping.
I don’t know what they were trying to accomplish but… they do know there’s quite a lot of people in the US comparing Mexican (and other people coming from the southern US border) to an “invading horde, right? Was turning orcs into an explicit insert for Mexicans actually a good idea? XD
Tolkien clearly marks Orcs as oriental, they use scimitars and have gongs and Tolkien wrote himself, that their features represent the most unlovely mongoloid features. By doing that he tapa into the cultural historical fear of the Mongols in Europe. It’s awesome actually.
the not-quite-sombrero hat is a very common style seen in Mexico(and SW US) in the Wild West time period though. Same purpose as a sombrero just different material. This is why Zorro wears it TBH. It's the more expensive one and Zorro was a nobleman. Also I counted... FOUR of them have pet birds!!! FOUR!!!!!
Now before my orcs atack you, I can use one of two iconic lines, "Vamanos Muchachorcs!" and everybody's favorite, "Badges? We don't need no stinking badges!"
The Mexicorcs is probably one of the funniest own goals by WotC lately. "We can't have this thing that is perceived as a racist stereotype because it's wrong. We'll just add this explicit racist stereotype instead!". If I facepalm any harder, I'll have a concussion.
They did miss the chance to go over the top with it, as they could of easily gone Tequila Gundam level of stereotyping. Just go all in and give no damns. If you are wondering what I am talking about, look up a picture of it and laugh.
@@goufr3540 I just looked it up, that is hilarious. It isn't done maliciously or to avoid offending people. It is just silly for the sake of it and unlike WotC isn't done hypocritically either.
From now on, all GMs have to say "You are beset upon by a band of orcs. These aren't the touchy-feely friendly orcs, these are the slavering monsters with spikes and giant axes looking for blood and death. Roll for initiative."
For context, I am actually gay. I usually don't get offended over being called names and slurs, but for some reason, the dwarves just bother me. Like, do they actually think that is what gay people are like? Do they really think gay dudes get eachother's beards tattooed onto them? The way they are trying to pander is do demeaning.
We have a running joke in our D&D group about different racial accents. Over the years, someone would choose an accent for a character/race and it would just stick, becoming part of our internal canon. Drow sound like Russians, Elves are Swedish etc etc... and now Orcs will speak in a Mexican accent 😆😆😆
The problem with Orcs was that WoTC wrote modules, where the orcs were written as "always kill this race on sight". All WoTC had to do was to add some non-violent orcs, and some raiders who were generic humanoids.
Paizo did this successfully in Pathfinder 1st ed, where the desert orcs were nominally "good" because they feared and worshipped the sun goddess, Sarenrae. While they occasionally engaged in raiding, _that_ orc society was mostly run by female merchants, who were responsible for maintaining the trade relationships for necessary resources (because desert). All the orcs in Belkzen, though, were traditional fair game. The ratio of hostile to civilized/potentially friendly orcs overall was like 4:1.
@@Top_Cheeze The males are mostly berserkers who burned out their eyes staring at the sun in an act of religious devotion. They're plenty violent, but the warrior males have an obvious handicap when it comes to logistics, so organization and leadership falls to the women who aren't, you know, _blind._
I love how when I tried to search for this on RUclips the other day I couldn’t find anything but videos on the class changes even though I specifically searched for species or even just Orc. I only got this in my “recommended” today because the AI realized I was looking for this content after I searched for it.
This is what happens when you grab Midwest American culture and force it turn into something that appeals to west and east coast culture. Happened to Disney, now its happening to DND. To be fair there is far more money on the coast, and money guides everything.
When I see an orc, I see the universal invader, the oppressor-barbarian. They can be Mongols, they can be Huns, they can be Norsemen. They can be Spaniards, Brit, French, or Turks. They can be Belgians if you set your story in the fantasy Congo. They can be Commanche or Zulu or Cuman. Any and all negative interpretations of the orc are valid because that's what they _are._ They are _every_ foreign invader, past-present-future.
@MostlyCloudy No. In the recent art they look like put-upon peasants who would be exploited by the local haciendero (who's going to be an Anglo-coded straight white human, because it's current year)
DnD Beyond is a pokeball. Your character sheet, notes, home brew creations, are the product they mine from your battles. We have gone from purchasing a product to inspire our imagination too paying for them to collect our ideas. Very machiavellian.
Just found your channel because of this ORC BS, so happy to find ya. subbed! Also the old dragons mags are GOLD! I bet wotc hates they can't delete physical copies because if they could they 100% would.
WHAT A MISSED OPPORTUNITY! They should have made the orcs RUSSIAN. The Russians would have loved it. They'd go, "Why yes, we can live anywhere, are tough as hell, and everyone is afraid of us. Of COURSE, we are orcs!"
TBH, I've always found GW's orks (basically over-the-top English soccer*ahem*football hooligans with American redneck kitbashing added in) far more entertaining than any D&D version. But yeah, most of the Russian guys I've known (only a few) would smile at being typed as orcs.
Since its supposed to be a mediveal fantasy setting, if they wanna make Orcs Hispanic, fucking go full Aztec/Mayan animal pelts, gold ornamentation, Brutal Machuitils It'd work, it works on WoW Trolls, and Lizardmen in Warhammer Fantasy.
Honestly yeah, that makes more sense, And the green skin could just be them able to photosynthesize, so they can survive off of meat, vodka and sunlight.
Hey now, dwarf baked goods has a long and storied tradition in Discworld, where it's commonly used as bricks, weapons, and extending the longevity of other rations (by making anything else look tastier)! As for the Mexican orcs, all I could say is that someone saw the movie Bright, and then assumed all orcs were actually blacks. It's the only thing that makes sense to me.
I don't hate the 6e (or whatever) picture because these are just the Eberron half-orcs. Like, literally same aesthetics. And I like the Eberron Half-Orcs. When I heard 'no more half races' (kinda lame) but yes to "Full Blooded Orcs', I got excited, for I am a full blooded orc enjoyer. Except WotC just released Eberron Half Orcs. Now I didn't read the final book lore on orcs, but I did read what they had released on their playtests and it was basically a white washing of Gruumsh which is extremely lame. Full blooded orcs in D&D where never black-coded, if anything they were written as land vikings complete with Not-Odin being their main deity. There is also at least 3 splinters of Full Blooded Orcs who weren't always chaotic evil (Gray Orcs, Odontis, and the 4e take on Obould Many-Arrows army. The first one is neutral, the second one good, the third one is nuanced and could be from any alignment). Folks who called Orcs racial coded back on the twitter shitstorm that put us here ARE just wrong, in fact they were using fucking LOTR passages to bich about this aspect, it was pure nonsense. That said, the folks who DID use the frankly insulting bad 5e's entry of Orc lore in 5e WERE RIGHT. In there, instead of presenting different Orc tribes (completely ommited from 5e's setting) they flat out state 'they are evil because of their blood' which was -never true- in Forgotten Realms. The evil gruumsh bound orcs were evil because Gruumsh was a god of conquest and they followed him, up until they DID conquer some land and started to ask hard questions about their faith. So this is a mix of WOTC fucking shit up and twitter types creating problems that don't exist ATOP a real problem that DID exist.
a digital mini is for the virtual tabletop. they want D&D on a subscription model. you will rent the books, minis, and dice and pay extra for the skins. you will also eat the bugs and be happy. also: all the new art looks like AI.
15:13 - This is 6th edition. Much like the last two editions WotC will pretend there isn't an edition number until forced to by the fans' ubiquitous use of the term. Keep calling it 6th edition, because history will show that it's 6th edition. They've been gaslighting for years that this won't be 6th edition but it definitely is. Here's the key to noting an edition change: Do you have to buy the core books again to remain relevant? If so, the answer is yes, it's an edition change. I've already heard of several changes that take 6th edition further from 5th edition than could be reasonably assumed by "errata' or "updating". If they produce an errata document that notes every single change between 5E and 6E and release said document for free consumption by anyone who currently holds 5E manuals, then I will change my tune and say this is an errata'd 5E. I promise I won't ever have to, this is 6E.
I just found your channel and I like your opinions already. This is why I have completely switched to OSR. Moldvay Basic/Expert is the best edition of D&D.
I'm not even opposed to there being different kinds of societies for conventionally evil races, it's something I often like to do in my homebrew worlds. But this, as the base, from an official source? Bro, what? It doesn't even look fantasy anymore. I feel like they're trying _so hard_ to appeal to a new crowd that needs to "see" themselves in everything, to the detriment of current/former fans. And with how mtg is also going down, this company just seems to hate my money. I'm not even an old dnd head. I started with 5e. They've fallen so far over the course of this edition alone.
and thats why i not plan to buy the new player handbook or monster manual... i looking forward the new DM guide. if they don't crap up the art, that will be the only book that i plan to buy.
Since you were old enough to hold a Dice!? I didn't know D&D has been around across the eons. Or are you one of the more recent spawn of the Old One? ...still, I'd've thought he'd've had to wake up for that....
Will be quite interesting to see, how well 6th edition is actually gonna sell. And possibly the excuses they'll come up with, in the case of the new books seeling poorly.
@@MostlyCloudy you know, i'm not actually sure you're a mexican american. This reads like that republican congressman with that black sock puppet account that he used to say racist shit
As a black man I love the new orcs and agree that if you see racism, you’re probably racist. Every fantasy race to ever exist, was taken from a race in reality. Obviously. We can’t create something from nothing we’re human. But that doesn’t make it racist. We just draw inspiration from reality. If you wanna be real about it. Most fantasy races have always been just white people with pointy ears or tusks anyway.
Yessir! We all know that the human race is based on medieval Europe with exotic Oriental lands far away etc etc. finally some real representation everyone can have fun with.
Man can we get the classic pig face orcs back? You think with how people like Zelda with Ganon and the moblins it would be more popular among gamers compared to whatever this grey real world inspiration sludge is.
WoTC is owned by Hasbro. Hasbro appointed the lady who ran xbox into bankruptcy with microtransations. She wants to transition D&D to an online app only. No books, no minis, no dice, nothing. Just a monthly payment to use the only online service of D&D. Then of course there will be microtransactions. Gold dice on the screen. If you want a mini that looks like your character, more money. And of course, then they can take the game away from you. Like Sony and Microsoft, who have been banning people and taking away their digital games if they disagree with anything you say or do. Oh, you bought $3000 worth of video games? Well Karen from HR saw your tweet where you asked why the female lead of a video game has Bruce Campbell's chin, so there goes $3000 worth of video games, gone in an instant. Complete and total control of everything. Then they can FORCE their politics in, and ban anyone who has a problem with it.
From one of your recent video game videos, if you don't know the rules you don't know you can't break them. Grew up on 2e and transitioned through the subsequent versions. I bailed during 4e but came back, briefly, for 5e. I have spent the last 4 years in OSR. The lack of procedures for everything is a feature. If there are too many rules you forget you can do things outside the scope of what is predefined. WotC really lost that with 4e and has yet to recover. Some how I doubt they will.
Doc Sirius does pick up orcs by hand selection and makes them into war machines or savagely subtle guards. In fiction, the fantastic races like dwarves and elves have a strained relationship with humans not because of their looks but because they're human and nothing else. Not sure how I got it. I don't play DnD.
Orcs have always been a product of their culture - that which worships a pantheon of evil gods. Orcs who have broken away from that culture to become peaceful have been a thing since 1991 in published game books by TSR, and in fiction for slightly less time, but still since 2007.
Hey! 4e was pretty good! It wasn't D&D, I'll say that, but as an asymmetrical minis skirmish game with a side of roleplaying it was pretty fun. I started playing D&D in 1982, when I was 9. One my great regrets is that I traded away most of my 1e stuff when my friends and I switched to 2e. Pathfinder 3.5 (PF 1e classes and stuff + 3.5e core rules) is best D&D, though. I almost "literally can't even" with what Hasbro/WotC is doing with D&D now. It's anathema. It's funny to think that anyone could say D&D has never featured powerful female characters when they made The Forgotten Realms the default setting (is that done now? Are the moving on from Toril?). Ed Greenwood never hesitated when it came to awesome and powerful women, whether that means actual power or political power, and none of us ever had a problem with it, either. We're pretty bad at being misogynists, when you stop and think about it.
My first D&D was in 1976, three little booklets (before the Earth cooled, it was hard to keep them from burning up!). The only edition since then I've spent much time with was 4e, which tickled my old wargamer roots, as well as having some other fine features. Nobody at any table I was at ever had any trouble with femlae players or characters, in fact, the common agreement among the guys was that games were better when there was at least one competent female player present.
@@occasional-dabbler I know those three little booklets...was that when it was "Chainmail", or was that back even further? Never had 'em, but a friend of mine picked them up somewhere as a collectible. I often had girls or women around my gaming, too. Especially once I got into my late teens and twenties, mainly because of a TTRPG games club at the local university. I also worked in the local comic and game store (even was eventually running the games section) through the late 90s and I never saw anyone have an issue with females coming into "our" spaces. Hell, when I was out west visiting relatives when I was 11 (so summer of 84) I played D&D with a bunch of cab drivers, and two of them were women! And like you said, having a woman at the table did something to the dynamic that was often beneficial. When I was running Vampire games in the 90s I'd actively recruit players from the women I knew (which wasn't hard for a Vampire The Masquerade game). I really don't understand where that idea that the various geek hobbies were ever closed to anyone, especially women, came from.
@@iDEATH Chainmail came out earlier - not sure how much earlier without looking it up, but no more than a couple of years. It was a set of medieval miniatures rules, with a little appendix to add fantasy/mythic elements; the spark of what would become D&D. We bought a copy back then, but it really didn't have much of interest for D&D (it was my first introduction to miniatures wargaming, though, ha!). After high school, where it was just me, my brother, and a couple of friends (all guys, hey, it was HS in the 70s), I introduced D&D to my co-ed dorm floor, and there was never any question that gals would play - more guys than gals, sure, but always a mix.
I'm sure WotC's artists often use AI because they're probably getting paid $20 a painting, but sometime I'd like to show some D&D fans older artwork from 2018-2019 and tell them it's brand new, and watch as they pour over it finding all the telltale signs of AI art in every single piece.
How much of this is people missing the point of each other's arguments, talking past each other, or falling for the 'poisoning of the well' by other bad faith actors?
Okay, Mexican/Central American Gaucho/Bandito lesbian orcs in the first pic with a bizarre axe... The multiple Elves remind me of the coven of force witches in Leslye Headlands The Acolyte. That arm is not right BTW... The hipster biker dwarves baking muffins, why have they got matching beard tattoos on their biceps. Come on man! WoTC, this art is shockingly baiting. Jeff Easley, Clyde Caldwell, Larry Elmore (etc al) did a 1000x better. The Weapon mastery guy with the battle axe looks like he is playing soft ball in the streets rather than delivering a lethal strike.
I think the orcs being black or Mexican is based on the lore of them coming from another world, and weren't one of the groups used as slaves? I think it was the mountain orcs while the black orcs were more technologically advanced and thus stood independently.
This pisses me off because they went the most lazy fucking way about it. If you told me those were half-orcs id still be upset but not fuming. But no they had to make them full orcs. Theres been AI art made of Mexican Orcs that looks more orcish and intimidating. Big ol nasty teeth, terrifying musculature and look of "I'm going to rip your head off if you piss me off" included in the AI art Vee showed off. Instead the artist for the official one decided, whether on his own or by corporate mandate, to make them look as peaceful as possible. Also if there'd be any culture a "civilized" orc clan would go with itd be more analagous to the Normans. Barbarian past, settled down by the promise of land, serfs, and wealth, trying to present themselves as civilized while in reality being very sketchy (look up the Norman conquest of southern Italy if ya haven't, gives a good idea of how dodgy I'd imagine civilized orcs would be).
As a 30 year DM/Player, the subversion of Orcs from being barely self-aware to being misunderstood illegal alien allegories is incredibly disgusting. Would not surprise me if there was a module put out in the next couple of years that used the illegal immigrant angle for the story.
@@HenshinFanatic Given the spread of release dates of the new rulebooks I think they will wait until the new books are all out. I absolutely believe they are already working on it though
I don't mind small companies and individuals using AI art, however WotC I expect them to pay for artists. The quality of the AI stuff is bad too like the artist didn't bother looking. A small RPG company needs fill their books with art that looks like Frank Frazetta was the lead art director.
It's fine as temporary placeholders, Art cost money, a lot of money and can go through many iterations before you get something you want. as a starting passion you really need to cut a lot of costs just to ensure you survive unless you happen to find an artist willing to work for near nothing or is part of the project enough that they are willing to sacrifice. Also helps to visually get across whatever idea you want to put together as you can visually show people what your are going for basically free.
There are lots of arguments about this but, orcs were basically anthropomorphic pigs. Games Workshop (British distributer of D&D) decided to stake their own claim with Warhammer and completely made original Orcs. There was a little cross pollination from Warhammer in to D&D in the early years, but the nail in the coffin was Blizzard coping Warhammer art 100% for Warcraft. After that WotC went full tilt into coping them, until they decided that orcs were racist not they have to be Mexicans of diverse sexuality and disabilities for representation.
so, serious question. Why is it that all strong women need the half shaved short style hair, as well why do all black males in media need "the killmonger haircut" That is no way to hold an axe. And yes, that image is AI generated. You can easily tell, It has to do with their rather stiff postures (like wtf is the...Monk I think it is? doing back there, he is either like 12 feet tall, or is leaping in the air and extending one leg out in a kick) That pose is not natural for a weapon like an axe, You would get almost no leverage. The only times I would see having your hands like that in that pose is if you where near the end and trying to go for as much striking force as possible. But to identify the things I think give it away. Look at the figures and how the light hitting their skin, it glows like a lot of ai art I have seen, Furthermore the arm on the dragonborn(I think that is what that is) is like a trex arm as well the abdomen on the dragonborn looks, just wrong, Actually it looks like the chest is facing the viewer.. Then there is the outlines of the character, That is what I usually see when I see AI generated art.
This whole debacle is being so overblown. This is not orcs being mexican. I see only one orc wearing a typical mexican hat. Everyone else is wearing generic western clothing from across the western scene. The lady on the cliff is wearing something I would sooner expect from a slavic tradition.The picture is to tell us that Orcs can be whatever We want them to be. Do you want them to be 1-dimensional savages? That's on you, and you can still do that with a little imagination. But now, no one is forced into that boring perspective. 5.5e makes all thinking creatures not monters, but that dont mean you can not make them monstrous characters. You all just lack imagination.
5.5e doesn't do ANYTHING but show the people with a lack of imagination that they could do something people have been doing since D&D was invented. I'm sorry y'all didn't realize you don't need permission from the book makers to do that.
DnD was something I've wanted to try since I was young. I've never went out to look for a group to learn. Kind of glad I didn't waste my time, hearing all the crap WotC and Hasbro has done over the years.
Well one thing good about DnD is that the older editions are still out there. 3.0/3.5 seems to be the classic fan favorite, and there are very likely many DnD groups that play by those rules. I may not have a group to play, but I still enjoy the lore and monster manuals of old.
Depending on how long ago that was you very well would be just pissed at the state of things coming out from them. With that said, you can easily find the old books and depending on where you live and luck you can find some player. Today its easier than ever find players, however from my experience you'd be better off finding the older D&D player, the refer to as grognards, often meant derogatory, they tend to be more welcoming and friendly.
@@jamesyoung7400 Grognards lol. Haven't heard that since I used to watch Beasts of War/On Tabletop. They always used it in a respectful old guard way. The vets of decades past. That's the hangup. I'm just wondering what vet would just take a greeny and throw them into campaigns.
3.5 is not dead. 3.5 is LIFE!!! I made the Encyclopedia Viniculum Draconus: 112 handbooks covering 80% of 3.0/3.5 including tips and tricks. It's a free zip file I released years ago. Go to town. ALL THE SPELLS color coded so you know which ones suck and which ones are broken, including full descriptions. That sort of thing.
I legit didn't even realise those were supposed to be orcs.
The tusks should have been your first clue
So they went from claiming orcs are racist stereotypes to making orcs racist stereotypes by their standards. That's honestly kind of funny.
Look at Radiant Citadel. It was touted for being written by POCs, but half of the adventures are X culture's biggest festival that white people know about.
Only if you like hypocritical ironic humor. Otherwise it's just nauseating.
Moronic/Ironic
@@robgraham5320It is funny in that you can see how blind they are to their own deep stupidity. Remember, these are the same people who think hating people of certain appearance is fine, but not others...
one thing to note. it all look so modern. it's not medieval fantasy. looks like people Larping an oldschool modern fantasy. its like Shadowrun but downscaled from Cyberpunk to Low Tech Western punk.
It's very much got that contemporary fantasy style inspired by tumblr that makes no effort to put you into a different culture. There's a furry OC familiar, the elves are all colored like that Hades & Persephone webcomic, there's punk haircuts everywhere and the cultural inspirations appear to be deathly allergic to the medieval era, much less Europe.
Neither does traditional D&D art, technically. D&D has never looked very Medieval. It looks like an amalgamation of 20th century sword and sorcery tropes, 20th century Naturalism aesthetics, and some really bangled ideas about Early Modern fashion with a few vaguely and superficially Medieval elements scattered about. D&D art has always looked like modern people larping.
It's the colors. Overly garish and exaggerated on top of that. WotC art has taken a turn for the worse in just a few years.
@@NevisYsbryd Yeah I personally compared it to Zorro in terms of aesthetic!
@@marhawkman303 Possibly an influence. Gygax loved that sort of thing.
With import tax and shipping to the Philippines, it will cost more than double. I'll wait until it's discounted in stores here.
I don’t know what they were trying to accomplish but… they do know there’s quite a lot of people in the US comparing Mexican (and other people coming from the southern US border) to an “invading horde, right? Was turning orcs into an explicit insert for Mexicans actually a good idea? XD
The goal was to add Mexicans in the game
Now ee have them in true form
It will be a really bad day for USA when the invading Mexican hoard engages the power of the waaagh.
I will not even be pirating them, since i wasn't born with the lack of imagination disability.
Tolkien clearly marks Orcs as oriental, they use scimitars and have gongs and Tolkien wrote himself, that their features represent the most unlovely mongoloid features. By doing that he tapa into the cultural historical fear of the Mongols in Europe. It’s awesome actually.
First orcs actually were elfs if I'm not mistaken
@@yaroslavyevsieiev5890 in universe and after one of the 4 creation myth of Orcs in the Legendarium, yes
@@yaroslavyevsieiev5890Yes, Orcs are elves that were corrupted by the magic of Morgul (if I recall correctly). And Urukai are Orcs bred with Humans.
@@yaroslavyevsieiev5890so elves were blacks? Or blacks are descended from elves? Maybe drow?🤔
@@boTCavalry no they were racists. And because of hate they turned into what they hated the most XD
Do you remember when the villains and monsters were irredeemably evil and/or uncivilized? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
They "colonized" the Orcs.
the not-quite-sombrero hat is a very common style seen in Mexico(and SW US) in the Wild West time period though. Same purpose as a sombrero just different material. This is why Zorro wears it TBH. It's the more expensive one and Zorro was a nobleman.
Also I counted... FOUR of them have pet birds!!! FOUR!!!!!
Biiiiiirbs…
Now before my orcs atack you, I can use one of two iconic lines, "Vamanos Muchachorcs!" and everybody's favorite, "Badges? We don't need no stinking badges!"
Es verdad!
I need to be able to like this more!
@@calvanoni5443 thank you for that simple response. He gave me a much-needed laugh that's hilarious.
@@slaapliedje 👍
They traded Sauron for El Santo.
Nah, El Santo is actually a BA. This is the Temu/Wish version.
Sancho!
The Mexicorcs is probably one of the funniest own goals by WotC lately. "We can't have this thing that is perceived as a racist stereotype because it's wrong. We'll just add this explicit racist stereotype instead!". If I facepalm any harder, I'll have a concussion.
They did miss the chance to go over the top with it, as they could of easily gone Tequila Gundam level of stereotyping. Just go all in and give no damns. If you are wondering what I am talking about, look up a picture of it and laugh.
@@goufr3540 I just looked it up, that is hilarious. It isn't done maliciously or to avoid offending people. It is just silly for the sake of it and unlike WotC isn't done hypocritically either.
From now on, all GMs have to say "You are beset upon by a band of orcs. These aren't the touchy-feely friendly orcs, these are the slavering monsters with spikes and giant axes looking for blood and death. Roll for initiative."
Orcs come from Roman mythology, it was a curse by Orcus for doing bad things to corpses.
I thought it came from an Anglo-Saxon word for Normans but maybe I'm just confused
@@gasmonkey1000 I thought it came from Orcas
@@suggiethames9870from Juan Vicente de Güemes Pacheco de Padilla y Horcasitas, segundo conde de Revillagigedo
I would just as soon assume one of those dwarves was a female dwarf with a beard.
For context, I am actually gay. I usually don't get offended over being called names and slurs, but for some reason, the dwarves just bother me. Like, do they actually think that is what gay people are like? Do they really think gay dudes get eachother's beards tattooed onto them? The way they are trying to pander is do demeaning.
@@MrBuns-yi2hkYes, they do. To them, "gay" means "tame" and "quirky."
We have a running joke in our D&D group about different racial accents. Over the years, someone would choose an accent for a character/race and it would just stick, becoming part of our internal canon. Drow sound like Russians, Elves are Swedish etc etc... and now Orcs will speak in a Mexican accent 😆😆😆
So they whent from a nontroversy to makeing them an actual stereotyping???
I miss when dnd was just satanic
In before someone makes an Orc Monk named Gonzolas...
If your D&D isn't Satanic, your not playing correctly! See the Plague Doctor.
The problem with Orcs was that WoTC wrote modules, where the orcs were written as "always kill this race on sight".
All WoTC had to do was to add some non-violent orcs, and some raiders who were generic humanoids.
TSR did this in the early 90s.
Paizo did this successfully in Pathfinder 1st ed, where the desert orcs were nominally "good" because they feared and worshipped the sun goddess, Sarenrae. While they occasionally engaged in raiding, _that_ orc society was mostly run by female merchants, who were responsible for maintaining the trade relationships for necessary resources (because desert).
All the orcs in Belkzen, though, were traditional fair game. The ratio of hostile to civilized/potentially friendly orcs overall was like 4:1.
They did. They live in Eberron
@@meikahidenori Have a cookie for mentioning Eberron.
@@Top_Cheeze The males are mostly berserkers who burned out their eyes staring at the sun in an act of religious devotion. They're plenty violent, but the warrior males have an obvious handicap when it comes to logistics, so organization and leadership falls to the women who aren't, you know, _blind._
A band of orcs attempt to enter the city.
The city guards: "Where are your badges?"
The orcs: "Badges? Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges!"
I love how when I tried to search for this on RUclips the other day I couldn’t find anything but videos on the class changes even though I specifically searched for species or even just Orc. I only got this in my “recommended” today because the AI realized I was looking for this content after I searched for it.
I'm green.
Olive skin tone. Mediterranean.
Italian. There, now you know someone who is green 😅😊😂
I mean they needed Mexicans in the game
And apparently green/gray guys = black guys
So it worked out
We finally have Mexicans in their true form XD
This is what happens when you grab Midwest American culture and force it turn into something that appeals to west and east coast culture. Happened to Disney, now its happening to DND. To be fair there is far more money on the coast, and money guides everything.
I actually agree with Kyle Brink that guys like him can't leave soon enough for the hobby. I hope more follow, so we can rid our hobby of the idiots.
When I see an orc, I see the universal invader, the oppressor-barbarian. They can be Mongols, they can be Huns, they can be Norsemen. They can be Spaniards, Brit, French, or Turks. They can be Belgians if you set your story in the fantasy Congo. They can be Commanche or Zulu or Cuman. Any and all negative interpretations of the orc are valid because that's what they _are._ They are _every_ foreign invader, past-present-future.
I guess the Latino vibe is on point then. 🥴
@MostlyCloudy No. In the recent art they look like put-upon peasants who would be exploited by the local haciendero (who's going to be an Anglo-coded straight white human, because it's current year)
That is because you are smart and reasonable, have studied history and are not a closet racist calling everyone else a racist.
@@MostlyCloudy yeah
Latam and mexico will invade the world and make anything a Taco or Arepa
I had to mow a lot of lawns to buy all my AD&D books back in the 80s.
DnD Beyond is a pokeball.
Your character sheet, notes, home brew creations, are the product they mine from your battles.
We have gone from purchasing a product to inspire our imagination too paying for them to collect our ideas.
Very machiavellian.
The weakfication of everything..
I prefer "cacti", personally. More Latin
That AD&D 2e Monster Manual Compendium. is Such a beautiful book., with so many awesome artist art.
Thanks for sharing this with us.
Just found your channel because of this ORC BS, so happy to find ya. subbed!
Also the old dragons mags are GOLD! I bet wotc hates they can't delete physical copies because if they could they 100% would.
WHAT A MISSED OPPORTUNITY!
They should have made the orcs RUSSIAN. The Russians would have loved it. They'd go, "Why yes, we can live anywhere, are tough as hell, and everyone is afraid of us. Of COURSE, we are orcs!"
TBH, I've always found GW's orks (basically over-the-top English soccer*ahem*football hooligans with American redneck kitbashing added in) far more entertaining than any D&D version. But yeah, most of the Russian guys I've known (only a few) would smile at being typed as orcs.
My Polish husband calls Russians orcs.
@@MostlyCloudy Nah, Orcs aren't as evil as Russians. Illithids fit better.
Since its supposed to be a mediveal fantasy setting, if they wanna make Orcs Hispanic, fucking go full Aztec/Mayan animal pelts, gold ornamentation, Brutal Machuitils It'd work, it works on WoW Trolls, and Lizardmen in Warhammer Fantasy.
Honestly yeah, that makes more sense, And the green skin could just be them able to photosynthesize, so they can survive off of meat, vodka and sunlight.
@1:19. It’s a bolero hat.
You had me at @ 11:20: "what the %$#@ is a digital mini!?!?" You...complete me...🥴 Well, made my day at least. Digital dice skin....😆
Luckily you can quest for the magical Cookie Sheet of Croissants +3 in any system.
Hey now, dwarf baked goods has a long and storied tradition in Discworld, where it's commonly used as bricks, weapons, and extending the longevity of other rations (by making anything else look tastier)!
As for the Mexican orcs, all I could say is that someone saw the movie Bright, and then assumed all orcs were actually blacks. It's the only thing that makes sense to me.
i am a forver dm. i am now migrating to other systems so i am a forver gm now
13:11 pastel mush.
I don't hate the 6e (or whatever) picture because these are just the Eberron half-orcs. Like, literally same aesthetics. And I like the Eberron Half-Orcs.
When I heard 'no more half races' (kinda lame) but yes to "Full Blooded Orcs', I got excited, for I am a full blooded orc enjoyer. Except WotC just released Eberron Half Orcs.
Now I didn't read the final book lore on orcs, but I did read what they had released on their playtests and it was basically a white washing of Gruumsh which is extremely lame.
Full blooded orcs in D&D where never black-coded, if anything they were written as land vikings complete with Not-Odin being their main deity. There is also at least 3 splinters of Full Blooded Orcs who weren't always chaotic evil (Gray Orcs, Odontis, and the 4e take on Obould Many-Arrows army. The first one is neutral, the second one good, the third one is nuanced and could be from any alignment).
Folks who called Orcs racial coded back on the twitter shitstorm that put us here ARE just wrong, in fact they were using fucking LOTR passages to bich about this aspect, it was pure nonsense.
That said, the folks who DID use the frankly insulting bad 5e's entry of Orc lore in 5e WERE RIGHT. In there, instead of presenting different Orc tribes (completely ommited from 5e's setting) they flat out state 'they are evil because of their blood' which was -never true- in Forgotten Realms. The evil gruumsh bound orcs were evil because Gruumsh was a god of conquest and they followed him, up until they DID conquer some land and started to ask hard questions about their faith.
So this is a mix of WOTC fucking shit up and twitter types creating problems that don't exist ATOP a real problem that DID exist.
The digital mini is likely a token for their upcoming virtual table top.
That or an stl file for printer, but I highly doubt it is
Well, it’s official. Dungeon Meshi has my all time favorite Orc design. They look like Orcs, unlike the ones in Dungeons and Dragons.
I'm sticking to my 3.5/pf1e mix. I'll hit Tortuga for a look at any interesting mechanics to pilfer.
a digital mini is for the virtual tabletop. they want D&D on a subscription model. you will rent the books, minis, and dice and pay extra for the skins. you will also eat the bugs and be happy.
also: all the new art looks like AI.
7:47 That's not an orc. That's a kappa!
The Boj-ORC-ez family/La familia Boj-ORC-ez. (Pronunced Bohh-ORC-ess)
15:13 - This is 6th edition. Much like the last two editions WotC will pretend there isn't an edition number until forced to by the fans' ubiquitous use of the term. Keep calling it 6th edition, because history will show that it's 6th edition. They've been gaslighting for years that this won't be 6th edition but it definitely is. Here's the key to noting an edition change: Do you have to buy the core books again to remain relevant? If so, the answer is yes, it's an edition change.
I've already heard of several changes that take 6th edition further from 5th edition than could be reasonably assumed by "errata' or "updating". If they produce an errata document that notes every single change between 5E and 6E and release said document for free consumption by anyone who currently holds 5E manuals, then I will change my tune and say this is an errata'd 5E. I promise I won't ever have to, this is 6E.
One more reason I'm glad that I backed DC20.
I just found your channel and I like your opinions already.
This is why I have completely switched to OSR. Moldvay Basic/Expert is the best edition of D&D.
I prefer the original pig orcs from basic D&D.
They want you to buy that!
They need much better advertising before anyone takes a good look!
I'm not even opposed to there being different kinds of societies for conventionally evil races, it's something I often like to do in my homebrew worlds. But this, as the base, from an official source? Bro, what? It doesn't even look fantasy anymore. I feel like they're trying _so hard_ to appeal to a new crowd that needs to "see" themselves in everything, to the detriment of current/former fans. And with how mtg is also going down, this company just seems to hate my money.
I'm not even an old dnd head. I started with 5e. They've fallen so far over the course of this edition alone.
I feel ya bro. I also started with 5e. I thought respecting past lore and sticking with half orcs was okay.
I live in the UK and am looking at that price bundle, am calling BS!
Avatar or Toon are what your character's are called when you play a video game.
Minis are for tabletops.
Mexicans orcs sounds awesome 😎 Looks like tacos and burritos are back on the menu boyz!
and thats why i not plan to buy the new player handbook or monster manual...
i looking forward the new DM guide. if they don't crap up the art, that will be the only book that i plan to buy.
Why do they keep trying to humanise orcs when they arent human
I’ve noticed that is a growing trend in fantasy. I’m not sure if it’s driven by ideology or laziness.
Since you were old enough to hold a Dice!?
I didn't know D&D has been around across the eons. Or are you one of the more recent spawn of the Old One?
...still, I'd've thought he'd've had to wake up for that....
He gets up every few eons.
Will be quite interesting to see, how well 6th edition is actually gonna sell. And possibly the excuses they'll come up with, in the case of the new books seeling poorly.
Hmm
Thell ether say it's a secseful with out giving prof.
Blame the fans and call racist.
Or know one plays it and every one stay with 5 edition
As a Mexican American, I'm offended.
why? Those orcs look cool as hell
@@westofley no they don't. They look soft and weak.
@@MostlyCloudy you know, i'm not actually sure you're a mexican american. This reads like that republican congressman with that black sock puppet account that he used to say racist shit
You should be grateful for feeling represented
@@Keram-io8hv the fucking left has "representation" so ASS BACKWARDS.
As a black man I love the new orcs and agree that if you see racism, you’re probably racist. Every fantasy race to ever exist, was taken from a race in reality. Obviously. We can’t create something from nothing we’re human. But that doesn’t make it racist. We just draw inspiration from reality. If you wanna be real about it. Most fantasy races have always been just white people with pointy ears or tusks anyway.
Yessir! We all know that the human race is based on medieval Europe with exotic Oriental lands far away etc etc. finally some real representation everyone can have fun with.
" Most fantasy races have always been just white people with pointy ears or tusks anyway."
Only if you are thoroughly ignorant regarding the lore.
This is the reason I stopped playing fifth edition DND and started playing Pathfinder again lol
This is what happens when you have projecting racists at the helm. Also that pricing model was stolen right from the 2010s gaming industry 😂
Inflation-adjusted prices of the various editions for 2024, rather than that post's 2014:
1st edition: PHB ~$10 @1978, MM $9.95 @1977, DMG $15 @1979 => $51.57 + $48.17 + $64.89 @2024 == $164.63
2nd edition: PHB $20 @1989, MM $18 @1989, DMG $18 @1989 => $50.66 + $45.59 + $45.59 == $141.84
2nd edition (BC): PHB $25 @1995, MM $25 @1995, DMG $20 @1995 => $51.52 + $51.52 + $41.22 == $144.26
3rd edition: PHB $30 @2000, MM $30 @2000, DMG $30 @2000 => $54.72 + $54.72 + $54.72 == $164.16
5E2024 physical bundle: $149.97.
Current release is right in line with the pricing of historical editions after accounting for inflation.
Man can we get the classic pig face orcs back? You think with how people like Zelda with Ganon and the moblins it would be more popular among gamers compared to whatever this grey real world inspiration sludge is.
Pig Orcs are actually the default in Japan because the games that D&D first inspired became more popular than D&D.
That’s not even close to being a Sombrero, that looks closer to a Cappello Romano.
It's actually a sombrero cordobés, or a cordovan hat. It's the same type of hat Zorro wears
WoTC is owned by Hasbro. Hasbro appointed the lady who ran xbox into bankruptcy with microtransations. She wants to transition D&D to an online app only. No books, no minis, no dice, nothing.
Just a monthly payment to use the only online service of D&D. Then of course there will be microtransactions. Gold dice on the screen. If you want a mini that looks like your character, more money.
And of course, then they can take the game away from you. Like Sony and Microsoft, who have been banning people and taking away their digital games if they disagree with anything you say or do. Oh, you bought $3000 worth of video games? Well Karen from HR saw your tweet where you asked why the female lead of a video game has Bruce Campbell's chin, so there goes $3000 worth of video games, gone in an instant.
Complete and total control of everything. Then they can FORCE their politics in, and ban anyone who has a problem with it.
And then make a surprised pikachu face when the people they ban take their money elsewhere and perhaps even convince others to do the same...
I don't care what they do im still gonna make a bard/fighter orc whose mean and green
From one of your recent video game videos, if you don't know the rules you don't know you can't break them.
Grew up on 2e and transitioned through the subsequent versions. I bailed during 4e but came back, briefly, for 5e. I have spent the last 4 years in OSR. The lack of procedures for everything is a feature. If there are too many rules you forget you can do things outside the scope of what is predefined. WotC really lost that with 4e and has yet to recover. Some how I doubt they will.
Doc Sirius does pick up orcs by hand selection and makes them into war machines or savagely subtle guards. In fiction, the fantastic races like dwarves and elves have a strained relationship with humans not because of their looks but because they're human and nothing else. Not sure how I got it. I don't play DnD.
Orcs have always been a product of their culture - that which worships a pantheon of evil gods. Orcs who have broken away from that culture to become peaceful have been a thing since 1991 in published game books by TSR, and in fiction for slightly less time, but still since 2007.
At least wikidot is free
Hey! 4e was pretty good! It wasn't D&D, I'll say that, but as an asymmetrical minis skirmish game with a side of roleplaying it was pretty fun. I started playing D&D in 1982, when I was 9. One my great regrets is that I traded away most of my 1e stuff when my friends and I switched to 2e. Pathfinder 3.5 (PF 1e classes and stuff + 3.5e core rules) is best D&D, though. I almost "literally can't even" with what Hasbro/WotC is doing with D&D now. It's anathema.
It's funny to think that anyone could say D&D has never featured powerful female characters when they made The Forgotten Realms the default setting (is that done now? Are the moving on from Toril?). Ed Greenwood never hesitated when it came to awesome and powerful women, whether that means actual power or political power, and none of us ever had a problem with it, either. We're pretty bad at being misogynists, when you stop and think about it.
My first D&D was in 1976, three little booklets (before the Earth cooled, it was hard to keep them from burning up!). The only edition since then I've spent much time with was 4e, which tickled my old wargamer roots, as well as having some other fine features. Nobody at any table I was at ever had any trouble with femlae players or characters, in fact, the common agreement among the guys was that games were better when there was at least one competent female player present.
@@occasional-dabbler I know those three little booklets...was that when it was "Chainmail", or was that back even further? Never had 'em, but a friend of mine picked them up somewhere as a collectible.
I often had girls or women around my gaming, too. Especially once I got into my late teens and twenties, mainly because of a TTRPG games club at the local university. I also worked in the local comic and game store (even was eventually running the games section) through the late 90s and I never saw anyone have an issue with females coming into "our" spaces.
Hell, when I was out west visiting relatives when I was 11 (so summer of 84) I played D&D with a bunch of cab drivers, and two of them were women!
And like you said, having a woman at the table did something to the dynamic that was often beneficial. When I was running Vampire games in the 90s I'd actively recruit players from the women I knew (which wasn't hard for a Vampire The Masquerade game).
I really don't understand where that idea that the various geek hobbies were ever closed to anyone, especially women, came from.
@@iDEATH Chainmail came out earlier - not sure how much earlier without looking it up, but no more than a couple of years. It was a set of medieval miniatures rules, with a little appendix to add fantasy/mythic elements; the spark of what would become D&D. We bought a copy back then, but it really didn't have much of interest for D&D (it was my first introduction to miniatures wargaming, though, ha!).
After high school, where it was just me, my brother, and a couple of friends (all guys, hey, it was HS in the 70s), I introduced D&D to my co-ed dorm floor, and there was never any question that gals would play - more guys than gals, sure, but always a mix.
Yup, orcs were pigmen, and not green…
I'm sure WotC's artists often use AI because they're probably getting paid $20 a painting, but sometime I'd like to show some D&D fans older artwork from 2018-2019 and tell them it's brand new, and watch as they pour over it finding all the telltale signs of AI art in every single piece.
Digital mini now they insulting my intelligence....
I am soo glad we live in a time whare we can find other ttrpg i am personally looking Forward too DC20
and loving shadow dark and crown and skull
How much of this is people missing the point of each other's arguments, talking past each other, or falling for the 'poisoning of the well' by other bad faith actors?
Okay, Mexican/Central American Gaucho/Bandito lesbian orcs in the first pic with a bizarre axe...
The multiple Elves remind me of the coven of force witches in Leslye Headlands The Acolyte. That arm is not right BTW...
The hipster biker dwarves baking muffins, why have they got matching beard tattoos on their biceps. Come on man!
WoTC, this art is shockingly baiting. Jeff Easley, Clyde Caldwell, Larry Elmore (etc al) did a 1000x better.
The Weapon mastery guy with the battle axe looks like he is playing soft ball in the streets rather than delivering a lethal strike.
I think the orcs being black or Mexican is based on the lore of them coming from another world, and weren't one of the groups used as slaves? I think it was the mountain orcs while the black orcs were more technologically advanced and thus stood independently.
What? could you be more specific, where is this lore from?
Forgotten Realms which I also Forgot
This pisses me off because they went the most lazy fucking way about it. If you told me those were half-orcs id still be upset but not fuming. But no they had to make them full orcs.
Theres been AI art made of Mexican Orcs that looks more orcish and intimidating. Big ol nasty teeth, terrifying musculature and look of "I'm going to rip your head off if you piss me off" included in the AI art Vee showed off.
Instead the artist for the official one decided, whether on his own or by corporate mandate, to make them look as peaceful as possible.
Also if there'd be any culture a "civilized" orc clan would go with itd be more analagous to the Normans. Barbarian past, settled down by the promise of land, serfs, and wealth, trying to present themselves as civilized while in reality being very sketchy (look up the Norman conquest of southern Italy if ya haven't, gives a good idea of how dodgy I'd imagine civilized orcs would be).
WHAT???
They turned the classic raiders and marauders into illegal immigrants.
Ork > Orc
Rreeeeeee! 😂
As a 30 year DM/Player, the subversion of Orcs from being barely self-aware to being misunderstood illegal alien allegories is incredibly disgusting.
Would not surprise me if there was a module put out in the next couple of years that used the illegal immigrant angle for the story.
Ugh. You're so right it's gross
Next couple? I'd narrow it down to within the year.
@@HenshinFanatic Given the spread of release dates of the new rulebooks I think they will wait until the new books are all out. I absolutely believe they are already working on it though
I don't mind small companies and individuals using AI art, however WotC I expect them to pay for artists. The quality of the AI stuff is bad too like the artist didn't bother looking. A small RPG company needs fill their books with art that looks like Frank Frazetta was the lead art director.
It's fine as temporary placeholders, Art cost money, a lot of money and can go through many iterations before you get something you want. as a starting passion you really need to cut a lot of costs just to ensure you survive unless you happen to find an artist willing to work for near nothing or is part of the project enough that they are willing to sacrifice.
Also helps to visually get across whatever idea you want to put together as you can visually show people what your are going for basically free.
Latinorcs
There are lots of arguments about this but, orcs were basically anthropomorphic pigs. Games Workshop (British distributer of D&D) decided to stake their own claim with Warhammer and completely made original Orcs. There was a little cross pollination from Warhammer in to D&D in the early years, but the nail in the coffin was Blizzard coping Warhammer art 100% for Warcraft. After that WotC went full tilt into coping them, until they decided that orcs were racist not they have to be Mexicans of diverse sexuality and disabilities for representation.
so, serious question. Why is it that all strong women need the half shaved short style hair, as well why do all black males in media need "the killmonger haircut"
That is no way to hold an axe. And yes, that image is AI generated. You can easily tell, It has to do with their rather stiff postures (like wtf is the...Monk I think it is? doing back there, he is either like 12 feet tall, or is leaping in the air and extending one leg out in a kick) That pose is not natural for a weapon like an axe, You would get almost no leverage. The only times I would see having your hands like that in that pose is if you where near the end and trying to go for as much striking force as possible.
But to identify the things I think give it away. Look at the figures and how the light hitting their skin, it glows like a lot of ai art I have seen, Furthermore the arm on the dragonborn(I think that is what that is) is like a trex arm as well the abdomen on the dragonborn looks, just wrong, Actually it looks like the chest is facing the viewer.. Then there is the outlines of the character, That is what I usually see when I see AI generated art.
I have no freaking idea. It's dumb.
This whole debacle is being so overblown. This is not orcs being mexican. I see only one orc wearing a typical mexican hat. Everyone else is wearing generic western clothing from across the western scene. The lady on the cliff is wearing something I would sooner expect from a slavic tradition.The picture is to tell us that Orcs can be whatever We want them to be. Do you want them to be 1-dimensional savages? That's on you, and you can still do that with a little imagination. But now, no one is forced into that boring perspective. 5.5e makes all thinking creatures not monters, but that dont mean you can not make them monstrous characters. You all just lack imagination.
5.5e doesn't do ANYTHING but show the people with a lack of imagination that they could do something people have been doing since D&D was invented.
I'm sorry y'all didn't realize you don't need permission from the book makers to do that.
DnD was something I've wanted to try since I was young. I've never went out to look for a group to learn. Kind of glad I didn't waste my time, hearing all the crap WotC and Hasbro has done over the years.
Well one thing good about DnD is that the older editions are still out there. 3.0/3.5 seems to be the classic fan favorite, and there are very likely many DnD groups that play by those rules. I may not have a group to play, but I still enjoy the lore and monster manuals of old.
Depending on how long ago that was you very well would be just pissed at the state of things coming out from them. With that said, you can easily find the old books and depending on where you live and luck you can find some player. Today its easier than ever find players, however from my experience you'd be better off finding the older D&D player, the refer to as grognards, often meant derogatory, they tend to be more welcoming and friendly.
@@jamesyoung7400 Grognards lol. Haven't heard that since I used to watch Beasts of War/On Tabletop. They always used it in a respectful old guard way. The vets of decades past.
That's the hangup. I'm just wondering what vet would just take a greeny and throw them into campaigns.
3.5 is not dead. 3.5 is LIFE!!!
I made the Encyclopedia Viniculum Draconus: 112 handbooks covering 80% of 3.0/3.5 including tips and tricks. It's a free zip file I released years ago. Go to town. ALL THE SPELLS color coded so you know which ones suck and which ones are broken, including full descriptions. That sort of thing.
@@TheEldritchGod Does it include Whirlwind of Teeth?
I found your channel thanks to @theoggmsadventures. Love it! Keep up the good work! 💚👽🛸🐙
I'm livid at WOTC even I don't give a fuck for table top games.
😂 terrible takes skip
It's a mini for their soon to fail virtual tabletop.
Yuk!