Kel J I first watched Doctor Who last year and thought Mickey was annoying and pointless but now I realise that he is an important Character with a lot of depth to him. I realised this second time round this year.
@@erincoutts2024 I think it might be because the Doctor and Rose's chemistry overshadows Mickey completely at first but later on he takes some initiative and stands up for himself
@diamond dogs Yeah, that's a big reason why I don't like her. She kept trying to kiss/fuck the doctor even when she was with Rory. I get that it's supposed to be a joke but to me it's gross and unfunny like the blowjob joke in "Love and Monsters"
@@mayotango1317 i wouldn't say nobody complains about the rose mickey relationship because i see people hating on her all the time because of that, but the way they both treated their partners was wrong (not that much with amy when you compare it with rose, most of the time it seemed like rose and mickey weren't even dating)
@@mayotango1317 Amy is nowhere near as bad as how Rose treats Mickey, with one or two notable exceptions (the domestic abuse in Asylum of the Daleks is very uncomfortable)
Something that's been missed here: part of the reason Rory's journey is different from Mickey's is *because* of Mickey's journey. The Doctor states in Vampires in Venice that he has seen before what happens when one partner leaves to travel with the Doctor and the other partner is left behind. Because of what happened to Mickey, the Doctor will not let Rory remain behind. He drags Rory along to Venice to keep that history from repeating. Rory runs with it, but the Doctor is the one who initiates the decision. One wonders if Mickey had stepped aboard the TARDIS when the Doctor first offered, would he and Rose be together today? Or was the love between Rose and the Doctor an unstoppable force?
True ,bu probably won't make difference, one of the biggest diffeent between rose and amy was that how in love Rose was with the doctor, and it was reciproque. Eleven never look to have romantic feelings to Amy, i think if Mick went to the tardis they onlywould ahve a more bitter end to that relationship, specially after 9 regenrate in the 10, that was not even hiding or fighiting what he feel to rose. And never forget, rose had no problems with flerting with captain jack in series 1, i already to late to MIckey, to not be to hars in rose as the video was to Amy..probably it has something as mick acted in episode 1 that make her fall out of love in him Eleven also is not 10,or not even 9, he is a lot more secretive and manipulative, 10 and 9 are much more openly in that feeling sabout mick and rose, specially 10
@@rodrigobueno8652 I think its down to the difference in where the characters were in thier lives. The 9th Doctor... he was a broken man, destroyed by the timewar, he needed someone. He was man who hated himself, needed to learn to love himself again and Rose enabled him to do that, which is why he let her close because his too smart not to realise that he needed it. His never previously got close to his companions before (Probably due to understanding the nature that, as he is a timelord and they are human it will always end in heartbreak for him) and yet he ignores all this because at that time... he needed someone. By the time Amy rolls around, his a different Doctor. He doesn't have the same post timewar scarring that 9 had and he just regenerated from the 10th, who had just said a final goodbye to Rose. So despite being heartbroken, he has been freshly reminded that human/timelord relationships are bad. He just wanted to go out and have fun in the universe to cheer himself up.
I remember hearing that Noel Clarke apologized for his performance in “Rose”, saying that he misunderstood the character and the maturity level of the audience.
@@lewisallan9963 It really wasn't his fault. RTD explicitly wanted Mickey to be this way. He wanted to humiliate the black man and make him just the most pathetic character. It's then really rich of him to try and be this progressive woke man with the current season now, when you remember what he did with Mickey.
i HATED how amy was constantly hitting rory and how in the episode the god complex he flinched away after saying something because he just assumed that she would hit him for it. like.....that's really disturbing looking back on it. in the same episode i thought it was interesting that rory didnt see his fear and was actually presented with an exit door because his lack of faith, which is something i wish they delved into a bit more. rory has always been the most relatable companion to me
also i understand that amy was the main companion for eleven, but you would think that after all that time traveling together, eleven would care more about rory? like when amy and rory jumped off the building in manhatten, the doctor only called after amy, and in the god complex rory is put in harms multiple times when they are trying to capture the beast and no one ever checks up on him.
asterisms honestly!! the hitting thing is actually so sad and disturbing. and now that i think about it, their whole relationship seems really toxic. (also sorry for the long comment lol) i really like amy, rory and 11, but i just hate how amy treats rory. the way he gets treated is awful, especially in the beginning. it’s like amy doesn’t even care about him despite him clearly loving her a lot. she literally cheats on him before their wedding *and* tries to kiss the doctor at their wedding. even after all this, rory still stays with amy even though he doesn’t deserve to be treated this way. he stays with her unsure if she even still loves him, but he does it all for amy. the fact that the doctor barely cares about him bothers me too. i don’t have a problem with amy being attatched to the doctor and all, but i feel like it should’ve been less.. toxic?
he’s basically a doormat to them, and i don’t think the show really addresses it like they did with mickey. my biggest problem with this is the fact that amy never apologizes or treats him better. yes, she loves him, but that shouldn’t excuse the way she acted towards him. i love rory’s character arc, but i just wish amy had more development that way. i also would’ve loved it if the doctor and rory had a closer relationship! (or grew closer to each other throughout the series). i feel like if all three of them had a closer bond to each other, they would’ve been super lovable. edit: on another note, we rarely get to see the doctor have a close male companion. i think it’d be really interesting for the doctor to have a main male companion that he cares about since his/her main companions are usually female lol
ArtsySundae ArtsySundae i agree!! the ponds and the doctor used to be my favorite tardis team when i was younger, and i still love them, but rewatching the episodes now, i'm picking up on a lot of toxic things about their whole dynamic that i definitely didn't see the first time. he guarded amy in the pandorica for 2000 years and although he says he barely remembers it, the show doesn't touch on how that affected him as much as it should have. in asylum of the daleks, rory is fully convinced that he loves amy more than she loves him, and he just came to accept that even though she says otherwise. not to mention that she slaps him AGAIN in that scene. and the fact that she kicked him out because she can't have kids instead of....talking to him doesn't sit right with me. i understand that it was a difficult decision for her but the fact that they don't have the type of relationship where they talk about things like that is kinda sad.
Growing up I related to both Mickey and Rory. Amy, Rose, Jack and The Doctor were the idealized adventurers you imagined/wish you were. But realistically most of us would be like Mickey and Rory. I think such a dynamic is underrated and something it wouldn't hurt to return to.
I agree. I think they also resonate with viewers because they're allowed to start at quite a low point and evolve into heroes - which makes you feel that if they can do it, maybe you could too. There's a huge burden on the main companion to be likeable right from the jump, but some of the most popular characters in the show's history started off deeply flawed and grew to be better. Characters like Donna, Jack, even Strax and Vastra. Viewers really connect to that kind of development. I'd love to see it done again with a main companion.
The one thing I don't like about Mickey's arc is that he basically just turns into a badass offscreen. With Rory, we got to see every stage of his evolution
Mickey turns into a badass off screen? Nope. He just turns into a badass who can shoot well of screen. He was already a badass. Rory, we have no idea why he is so devoted to Amy or why he puts up with how she treats him. He protected her for 2,000 years and we don't really know why beyond him loving her. Mickey at least was able to step out from Rose's shadow. Rory remained second fiddle till the end and dedicated his life to a woman who wanted to cheat on him after only 3 adventures on their wedding night. I really like Rory but a huge chunk of character development is missing that explains why Rory puts up with it. Why is he so devoted to her?
I get why you're saying that about Mickey, but I don't think it is an issue. One thing that Davies was especially great at was momentum in world-building. Often in world-building with characters or plotlines that pop in and out of the story, writers tend to just resume from where they left off, even though in real-life, if you ignore someone for a year, they're gonna be in a different place and will act differently when you finally catch up with them. Davies was great at realistically showing and justifying offscreen character growth without it feeling unearned (see Mickey, Captain Jack, Donna), and when the story returned to the same locations or time periods just a few years later (The Long Game > Bad Wolf; The End of the World > New Earth > Gridlock; the Christmas specials) you got to see the direct impacts of the events of the previous episodes.
@@rindoubaka1574 Many say why Marge loves Homer Simpsons, or why the nice Hal loves the psycho Lois in Malcolm in the Middle. Because love is hard to explain, you feel it and that is. To be honest, Mickey and Rose were already doomed before the Doctor showed up. While Amy is the one who needs and loves Rory, Rory was always the Eleventh Doctor's true companion.
@@rindoubaka1574 this type of stuff happens in real life. There’s a lot of beta “simps” out there who would move mountains for a woman who couldn’t give a fuck about them. I’ve met many men who are like this. & even more women who take advantage of men like this
I don’t think that Rory really classifies as a Tin Dog in the same way that Mickey does. He is secondary to Amy in season 5, but by series 6 he is a full companion in his own right and takes on the role of the male companion from classic who (the male companion would be the action hero that punches the bad guys because the Doctor couldn’t). Mickey's role in the show is facilitated by Rose completely, but eventually grows to the point where he has the strength to step out of her shadow and leave the TARDIS for his own adventures, whereas Rory, although he is dragged in by Amy initially, is accepted into the team very quickly and proceeds to develop his own relationship with the Doctor that doesn’t revolve around Amy. Which is not to say that Amy is irrelevant to his character, she is vital, but Rory is vital to Amy's character, he brings her back to Earth, in fact their relationship is what makes that TARDIS team work. Mickey meanwhile can (and indeed does) be removed and the Doctor and Rose can carry on like normal.
I couldn't agree more- it's very subtle, but Rory even shows what the Doctor could be if they weren't so self-centered. He has 2,000 years worth of memories(and at times the Doctor even treats Rory as his senior) but unlike 9,10, or 11, he's very rarely vindictive or pompous. If anything, that memory of another life is where Rory learned to BE a man of action.
The way Amy was written was such a blunder, she was vile to Rory even asking the doctor to kiss her at her wedding and the show never presented this as bad- either she should have apologised or Rory should have left her
Ngl when i first watched her stories - I HATED Amy. From Flesh and Stone which was the episode that prior I was still trying to decide whether or not i liked her but when she tried to shag the doctor - I loathed her. Only looking back on her arc knowing the journey I like her but still hate her in s5. Rose at the time I honestly just enjoyed the show for what it was an started watching at an Idiots Lanturn when J first heard of it so Mickey had already left
I blame a lot of this on Moffat's clear desire to make Amy a "sexy" companion. He wrote the sexy first and the character later, which isn't the best way to do it. Karen Gillan is a knockout - and she's no less of a knockout in season six when she's wearing jeans and a flannel shirt. But in season five it's as if for some mad reason Moffat didn't trust that viewers would fancy her, so he kept putting her in tiny skirts and kissogram costumes. Just shoving it in your face all the time, as if he was screaming "LOOK HOW SEXY MY COMPANION IS" in every scene. Because we'd never have noticed otherwise . . . Worse is that he didn't seem to trust that that warm, flirty vibe that makes a character sexy would come through in the acting alone. He didn't trust Karen to just *be* sexy without trying. So he wrote in all these really heavy-handed scenes of Amy flirting with anything that moved. I really do think he intended it to make her look sexy, but it had the effect of making her look fickle and promiscuous instead. I do like Amy, but the man-eater schtick did a disservice to her character and to her love story with Rory.
@@mayotango1317 she had character, it was too sexualised and too selfish, but in season 7 she and Rory are very nice together I think. I wish we got a story that she ran off before her wedding as she was scared and learnt actually Rory was lovely that would have been brilliant
@@mayotango1317 True. I haven't been able to connect with the Chibnall era at all. But that was always a problem of his imo. His characters feel like they're missing something. Like all the components are there and it should be hitting the mark, it should be making you feel something, but it's just . . . bland. I have the same problem with Gatiss. We desperately need some new blood in the writer's chair.
@@karenhall4645 The problem is not "allowing", the problem is that Chibnall is a bad showrunner. If he was good, most people wouldn't resort to politics to explain why the show is bad.
I think the 11th Doctor had a lot to do with helping to keep Amy and Rory together, particularly bringing him along (and trying to fix their marriage later). I think he learned a lot after seeing what happened with Rose and Mickey, so the arcs of Mickey and Rory also reflect the Doctor's growth as a character.
I see a lot of hate for how Amy treated Rory and while I can't always defend her actions, but I believe her drive to want to stay with the doctor and even be in a relationship is just her being unwilling to probably grow up and move on. Rory is her future but that's just scary so she keeps avoiding him. That said deep down, if it mattered she would ALWAYS chose Rory over the doctor.
Only because it is a fictional show and you have to write it that way or people would be pissed. In reality, Rory would've been constantly cheated on even before Doctor showed up and Amy would drop his ass for Doctor in 2 seconds.
Every time I think about how much I loved Ten, the thought is always marred by a 'yeah but he was an absolute asshole to Mickey', and it makes me sad, because Mickey was great and didn't deserve the abuse he got. I'm glad he found someone leagues above Rose in the end though.
@@ace90200 He constantly demeaned him, like when he completely forgot about him at the start of the Cyberman two-parter and had him holding a button for half an hour longer than he needed to.
A big difference between those two is that one keeps trying to impress an egotistical jerk who treats him like trash and steals his girlfriend while the other is not impressed, is proud of himself and punches the Doctor in the face.
And of course, Rose and 9/10 met abruptly when Rose and Mickey were already grown up, and quickly got along extremely well together, and were supposedly travelling a significant amount before Mickey even got the offer, let alone asked to come along. Meanwhile 11 was a constant presence in Amy's, and by extension Rory's childhood's due to showing up when they were 6/7, then miss-timing a trip by about 12 years before returning, then again by 2 years, and Amy and 11 only went on a few trips before heading back at which point Amy made advances on the Doctor and he noped hard out to grab Rory for relationship counselling. For Mickey the Doctor was something that came out of nowhere who he studied up on in the year Rose was missing because the Doctor has horrible time-management skills, whilst Rory basically grew up listening to his crush and her best friend often talking about this super cool imaginary friend of hers, and them suddenly alien stuff's happening and turns out he wasn't imaginary.
I'd love to see you make a video about Amy and Rory's relationship. I recently finished rewatching series 5 and I only just realised how terrible Amy treats him. I'm almost surprised no one has brought this up yet because if the genders were swapped people would have had an issue with the kind of relationship they had.
@@mayotango1317 she may love him but she is worse than rose or Clara, trying to cheat with the doctor on their wedding night (then expecting him to be okay with it as they are both her 'boys', slapping him in asylum of the Daleks before saying she's done more for him than he has for her, asking the doctor to kiss her in front of him on their wedding night, constant flirting with the doctor, teasing him from childhood, telling the doctor she was pregnant before him etc. etc. Rose fell out of love with Mickey and left him behind, whilst Clara was dishonest. Amy was downright wicked it was such a weird dynamic Moffat decided upon
@@jgr2637 Maybe because Amy was traumatized as a child by a broken promise? Four psychiatrists who told her the Doctor didn't exist, and that Amy bit them? Living in a small town where nobody respects you and treats you like crazy should affect anyone?
One of my favourite aspects of Mickeys arc is the his interactions with 9 - the growing respect is believable and really nice - I always felt sad when 10 went back to treating him like shit. But then I guess I just love how 9 interacted with everyone xD
Imagine the reaction if Rory slapped Amy in asylum of the daleks, rly disgusting how they put that in and acted as tho its fine. Just fuels the idea men cant be the victim in a relationship
Couldn’t of said it better myself. What rory was saying was true as well. What comes to mind when he said that, is amy trying to kiss the doctor at their own wedding and amy coming onto the doctor in flesh and stone.
If we're talking secondary companions, I'd love to see a piece on Wilf or Jack. Or maybe a dual video, like the Mickey / Rory one you've done here. Wilf and Jack might not seem to have that much in common at first glance, but they share some interesting thematic territory. They both serve as companions in episodes where the Doctor is confronting his mortality, and they both end up becoming part of his regeneration. It's funny. Rose revives Jack with the regenerative energy that kills Nine and creates Ten. This action of hers means Jack is alive later on in the series to acquire Ten's discarded hand - a hand which is instrumental in creating the DoctorDonna hybrid and TenToo. Undoing the effects of this regeneration energy on Donna causes her to lose her memory, which is the incident that really bonds Ten and Wilf - a bond that leads to Wilf serving as companion later, and playing a pivotal role in Ten's death / regeneration. It sounds convoluted when you write it out like that but there's a clear through line. Jack shares in Ten's birth and Wilf shares in his death, essentially. Jack and Wilf are also both major characters in episodes about the Master as well, now that I think about it. They have some really interesting similarities.
It's so nice to see people pointing out Amy's abusive and manipulative behaviour for once. As a child she was my favourite companion, but now I'm older I find her so obnoxious.
Rory was (and is) absolutely my favourite! I loved Rory and Amy as kid. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve come to respect it. Rory was incredible. He didn’t do what he did because ‘I aM a MaN’ or something. He did it because he loved Amy. One of the fictional characters I look up to.
When it's all said and done, Whenever Amy has to choose, she always picks Rory over the Doctor; in the dream lord episode she chooses to die if it means being with him and does the same in the angels take Manhattan.
I believe Rory is getting some big finish during his time guarding amy, I love Rory as a character so it will nice hearing some more heroic bits for him
It's kinda weird to say given that literally on their wedding day Amy tries to kiss the Doctor, but I think Mickey got treated worse than Rory in some regards, maybe not in the grand scope of things since Rory does go through a lot more, but in the more mundane regular human level. It felt like they tried to write him in a way where he wasn't a bad guy but that he couldn't compare to the Doctor so Rose leaving him wouldn't seem like cheating. At the beginning it's not like he and Rose are friends who casually hook up. From the first episode alone you get the impression they have know each other for a long time and then became a couple some considerable time before The Doctor shows up. And while 11 does make fun of Rory he actually never views Amy as a potential love interest and when Amy tries to sleep with him it's like the Doctor realized the same thing was about to happen again. So he made an effort in wanting to get Amy and Rory experience the same things to make them equals. I'm sure that had something to do with Moffats plan for 11 and River. But 9-10 does pretty much straight up steal a commited girlfriend, sure she can make her own choices and if she decided to break up with Mickey that would be one thing. I'd say the guy puts up with quite alot given that the doctor one minute is obssesed with Rose and then the girl in the fire place happens and Mickey never once tries to leverage that against him or does a "see I told you so" to Rose. It was nice thought to see in the final episode that the two characters who really got their love lives upended by the Doctor get togther, even though it felt a bit "lets get the two black people together even though we've never seen them really interact after we did seem to set up Martha was going to get together with 'Lucifer' after the 1 year reset".
yeah I never really got martha and mickey at all maybe that its easier to close up the companions story like that because the doctor wouldn't go out of his way to find mickey lets be honest, but it'd also be nice to see what happened to him... hence mickymartha. weird. i would have prefered martha and the lucifer dude, maybe they could also have been working with mickey and some random girlfriend/wife he had as duo couples freelance alien fighting.
@@KeySnow I'm sure it was mostly made out of convenience and also, it's not like Tom Ellis was well known at the time, and a lot of people watching would probably not even remember his character unless they had been rewatching the show or was bingeing the show. But even if the year got reset, he proved to be a character that really preformed under extreme pressure. And you could see there was some kind of connection, and if I remember right she said she was was engaged to him when she came back. So even if they couldn't bring Ellis back for the cameo, you could still have the scene play out mostly the same. With them as co-workers and friends. Maybe instead of "this is no place for a married woman" he could have said "you sure this is the best place for a pregnant woman" Or if they didn't want to come right out and say it "maybe Thomas was right that you should allow yourself to take a year off". It would give the audience enough ending characters to get closure but still keep the focus on the doctor since the goodbyes are as he puts it his reward.
How does Mickey, a side character with barely any screen time, have more character development in 4 episodes than any of the season 12 companions in 26 episodes?
@@xenon8117 That's 20 more than needed to flesh them out. If Captain Adelaide Brook can be a fleshed out character in a single episode, so can any companion
@@rindoubaka1574 You're right, I was far too generous. Just earlier I was thinking about Martha and in her first 10-15 mins she was clearly characterised. Doctor, shows intelligence and a caring, hardworking nature. Phone calls with family shows she's used to drama and is the centre of her family dynamic, someone reliable to sort out arguments. Hospital on the moon, no atmosphere but we aren't dead and there's no apparent air loss so she's clearly thinking about why they are there instead of panicking. Gwen Cooper, Police Officer. In everything changes they start off with her seeing a dead body and it's just run of the mill, not a fun evening but she's used to this. Torchwood swan in and she has to look in to satisfy her curiosity. After seeing the glove work she ends up spending hours investigating Torchwood to get inside, tried to keep her memories and then manages to remember enough to find her way back to the water tower. One of the few to get past retcon's effects. One episode shows off the Torchwood team but mainly shows us Gwen. Yaz could have been similar but obviously less experienced with her being new to the job. They only real hints of her being police are talking to the Judoon and trying to find the doctor, which is a plot point instantly dropped. Nothing of her character has been fleshed out and used. I wasn't planning on a rant but the lack of care taken with the writing for a show I loved since new who started airing is such a letdown.
@@xenon8117 Rant away. You know what the sad thing for me is? I don't even rant about the new era. I'm just so apathetic with the whole thing. I ranted a bunch when during the Moffat era but I was still invested. Nowadays though I just wish they would end the show. Capaldi really is the last Doctor.
Mickey and Rory: great role models for us guys whether we're in a relationship or not. Noel Clarke and Arthur Darvill: great role models as actors, as they continued after Doctor Who into other popular tv shows and dramas.
I'm not so sure Rory is a great role model at times, his love and loyalty is beautiful but he also rarely challenges Amy even when she tries to cheat on him and physically assaults him. If he learnt the relationship was toxic then that would be something to look up to
End scene of The Almost People is my favourite Rory moment, he knows something's wrong and when the Doctor tells him to move he just does, so much respect for Rory
I never thought of Rory as the tin dog after the first few episodes. As soon as he started travelling with the Doctor and Amy he was a full time companion for me. It might not have been apparent from the start, but Rory is in fact way more of a role model than the Doctor ever was. He is loyal, loving, caring, kind, brave, determined, strong, clever... And so is the Doctor, more or less, but he still is an omnipotent, ancient Time Lord. Rory on the other hand was completely new to time travel and all its dangers when he started, but he adapted so quickly and so well. The scene where he walks into the Cybermen bataillon in A Good Man Goes To War was impressive, but I remember another scene that really stuck with me: in The Impossible Astronaut, right after the Doctor "was killed during regeneration", Amy is a snivelling mess. River and Rory are near to tears, but composed. They have a petrol can. It's Rory who says "If we're going to do this, let's do it properly", and then proceeds to set the Doctor's corpse (or so they thought) on fire. It's him who stands at the shore, alone, when they all look at the Doctor, burning on a boat, floating in Lake Silencio. I doubt every other companion could've done this. It takes more than being in the Doctor's company for a bit, you also need to be a remarkable human being. That's the referenced clip: ruclips.net/video/j_Z-8FKN_lw/видео.html
I'm glad you acknowledge Rory and Mickey as _secondary_ companions only. They weren't there for the Doctor. If Rose went travelling to Bristol and 10 to Neptune, Mickey would go Bristol. Same goes for Rory.
I like Rory's development over time because it's a lot more subtle and Mickey is really great too. It's interesting that in Nardole's case it was his relationship to the doctor that changed that made him the hero who gave up his old life save just one village and in a sense he is a companion that River Song left for the doctor.
I really wish Rory had confronted Amy about her behaviour at some point. They closest we ever got to it was Rory saying he loves her more than she loves him, but she retorted by saying she loved him more because she gave him up so he could feel justified in finding another partner to have kids. But Amy is completely oblivious to Rory spending *2000 YEARS* alone, just to keep her alive. I really wish he'd thrown that in her face at some point. I really wish he had said "Don't you dare talk to me like that. I sacrificed everything, my own sanity, while you were trying to snog the Doctor at every opportunity so don't you dare talk to me about sacrifice." This would then really make a huge payoff in the final run of the two characters, with Amy sacrificing her own life for Rory, not once, but twice in the span of one episode.
I've always really liked Mickey and Rory and they have better arcs than some of the main companions. I have to say Matt Smith's Doctor shows Rory a bit more respect than David Tennant did Mickey, probably because of the Rose love triangle thing.
I like Mickey, but Rory is by far one of my favorite Companions in all of Nu Who. Thank you for this Video, it focused very much on how human these two Characters are.
I have started rewatching Doctor Who with my brother who is watching it for the first time. I forgot about how much growth Mickey goes through during the first series. We just finished Boom Town, and I love how much it focuses on Mickey being an after thought in Rose’s mind. I am excited for us to move on to the series 1 finale and to see my brothers reaction to his first regeneration.
Thank you so much for making this video! Rory is my favourite Companion of all time, and he gets overlooked by most DW discourse. I knew he was something special when he called out the Doctor for making people a danger to themselves in Vampires of Venice and he never let me down. And your premise of Rory not being in awe of the Doctor like Amy and most other former companions are is pretty much confirmed in The God Complex, since Rory is the only character who is shown a way out. I do wish we had gotten more Doctor and Rory one-on-one content, as they had a dynamic that I feel we don’t get often enough; someone who isn’t awed by the Doctor, or in love with him, but still has a close and meaningful personal relationship with him. Mickey never really feels like he has much connection to the Doctor, but Rory certainly does. So once again, thank you so much for highlighting two often overlooked companions who don’t get enough credit for their achievements and sacrifices, one of whom happens to be the best boyfriend-turned-husband in the universe. (Seriously, if a guy was willing to spend 2000 years guarding a box to protect me I’d marry him in a heartbeat.)
And then he immediately went to get Rory. Sometimes the Doctor actually does learn from his mistakes. Also, on what a shit Amy is, she carried on trying to come on to the Doctor after he refused, so that's assault.
Also think he just saw her as a child still because he'd still call her little amelia and give her kissed on the forehead when he was being emotional towards her...
Mickey was awesome especially when he started dating Martha, he was so badass, also has one of the best lines ever! "It's like Steven Hawkins meets a Speaking Clock"
Unfortunately now they have three tin dogs as companions, they should probably write longer episodes again as they have interesting premises, but generally bad development.
They're not really even tin dogs, at least K9 always had a use even if it was just to do convenient computer things when The Doctor was being too stoic to work it out himself. 21 episodes into the Chibnall era and I'm not really sure what his companions bring to the show, except some light comic relief from Graham
@@alfiethomas5632 Yeah... They could die, I wouldn't even shed a tear... That's pretty sad, but they have nothing that can encourage to emotionally care about them :/ (And like you said, they don't seem to be of a great importance for the story...)
@@hildameroph8530 It doesn't help that we keep getting told "Look how adaptable, resourceful and deep our characters are" but on screen they're about as lively as a cardboard cutout. Just another problem with the era is that the writers don't seem to understand "show don't tell"
@@mayotango1317 Clara was many things but she wasn't whiny. The Doctor projected that onto her whilst she let him vent without complaint as HE whined about the fact that she let him down ONCE after 1) her boyfriend died, 2) she spent most of Season 8 putting up with the Doctor being a sociopathic shitbag and 3) she spent millions of lifetimes saving his ungrateful ass. She never even complained about the fact that he didn't even notice that she kept living and dying for his sake for 10 out of 13 of his lifetimes. The only Doctor who actually had an excuse for that was John Hurt because the Time Lock blocked Clara's echoes from getting into the Time War. The only time she even vaguely implied how upsetting that must have been was when she joked that forgetting her was "offensive" and that was in literally her very last scene on the show. Clara didn't complain for trivial reasons and only laid into the Doctor when he was being an arsehole.
Mickey was so severely underused tbh like i loved his character so much but i really wish we could’ve seen his full transformation from average dude working in a garage with his cool old cars like the beetle and the mini, to the badass who saved sarah jane and then married martha. thinking about it now the fact he was presumably a mechanic could’ve been incorporated into episodes
I always wondered if Mickey's actor had problems with how second handed his role was in the show, and that's why they have Mickey a lot of character lol Jokes aside he's one of the most underrated characters in DW history. I haven't reached Matt Smith's series yet so I don't know who Rory is for now. Edit: finished watching seasons 5 and 6 and now at episode 4 of season 7. Rory and Martha are my favourite companions ever. Possibly Donna as well.
I can understand your dislike for Amy, but I think she also grew a lot as a character and as a romantic interest for Rory. She started off very young and immature and even acknowledges that she never really admitted how much Rory meant to her until she nearly lost him (in Amy's Choice). The Amy at the beginning of season 5, who felt she had the chance to live her lifelong dream of running away with the Doctor is very different than the Amy who in season 7 tries to give Rory up because she feels that's what he needs to be happy. In the end she chose to stop running with the Doctor and chose to stay with Rory instead, in essence giving up her childhood dream to continue in a more grown up one with the man she loved.
I don't think it's said enough- Arthur Darvill as a TREMENDOUSLY TALENTED ACTOR. His performance is great across the board but especially in episodes like The Girl Who Waited?? He's phenomenal.
Mickey and Rory are two of my three (Donna Noble being the other) favorite companions. This is because the two share something in common--doing something they done want to do (traveling with The Doctor) to protect the primary companion.
I've now watched all your videos, as of December 13th of 2020. And I can confidently say that you are my favourite Doctor Who analyzer. I entirely agree with your opinions, you're the bloody Roger Epert of Doctor Who.
You did a really great job on this one. I have mixed feelings about Moffat’s heading of Who and Sherlock. But, your take on him and his writing team’s development of Rory, and overall improving tin dog characters, really has me reconsidering and finding new appreciation for the writing of that run/era of Who.
I only just realised that with 13 there is no secondary companion at all instead just three primary companions who are very much 2D and barely interact dynamically with one another
You know maybe that’s why the new series does not click it feels like everything is to smooth the companions and the doctor feel like one person and it makes it so hard still forcing Jodie’s first season.
I can tell you're putting a lot of effort into presenting your script in an engaging and entertaining way - especially through your intonation and the way you really try to make the sentences flow, usually from high to low. However, the sheer amount of high points, almost all of them sentence beginnings, grates on the ears. Have you considered varying it up a bit more, perhaps starting with lower tones or just having a more monotone sentence here and there to let the high-to-low sentences have some proper impact?
Wow this is so interesting, I never thought of it like that! Just a little bit of constructive criticism - you read the script a bit like it is an advert on TV, try and read it in a more conversational tone as a more naturalistic approach better suits this kind of video essay. Great video, though! :)
I think the point of Ricky is Ricky is the person that Micky could be without the doctor and Micky sees that and he wanted to be like Ricky but I don't think I'm correct
i think rory was always more interesting than amy, even in the eleventh hour he was the only person to notice the coma patients, and mickey has some of the best development in new who
Remz 04 yh there’s so many episodes where is plot points are either just as interesting as amy’s (like the god complex) or more interesting, and overall his character is just way more interesting and funny
The use of rory as a nurse, for example in the hungry earth/cold blood really helps his development as sometimes he is the only one that can help people
Yeah, I loved this about Rory. That he had a practical skill the others didn't have, but also that he had such empathy. Because he was a nurse. I love when the companions job influences their role in the gang like that.
Not even joking, Mickey and Rory have always been two of my favorite companions. Quality trumps quantity any day, though some do have both going for them.
Mickey had one of the best character developments in the whole show. Rory's deaths got annoying after a few times. Wished Ryan had got the same treatment. He has potential but Chibnall's writing is god-awful
Mickey is one of the most underrated and underserved characters in all of NuWho. Like Martha he got treated badly by the Doctor and the writing of the show (although Martha had the writing part slightly worse). Mickey is hilarious and a badass and every time he's onscreen I love him he just makes me smile. I'm glad it seems like more of the fans these days are coming around to appreciate him more!!!!
I think one of the best, little things from Series 1 was Clive's website was real and updated by Mickey in-universe The site's still up but it's honestly one of my favourite little things and really made the world feel alive. www.whoisdoctorwho.co.uk/index2.shtml Such as Adam Mitchell being mentioned in the page on fathers day as being 14 and writing a letter in to Mickey.
Really wish they would have made an 11th doctor story with Martha, Mickey, Amy and Rory. Have it be a joke that the Doctor is 5th wheeling the entire time only for River to appear at the end and the two take off in the TARDIS leaving the other four on some planet with one of them asking "he's coming back right?"
One small detail, Ricky wasn't a total badass, he was more of a tryhard when you realise he's only "london's number one most wanted for car parking fines"
As a kid I thought Mickey was useless but rewatching his arc as an adult I've realized he's one of the best characters of Doctor Who.
Although Dodo is the undisputed best written, most thought out, and best character.
Still a tin dog though
Kel J I first watched Doctor Who last year and thought Mickey was annoying and pointless but now I realise that he is an important Character with a lot of depth to him. I realised this second time round this year.
@@erincoutts2024 I think it might be because the Doctor and Rose's chemistry overshadows Mickey completely at first but later on he takes some initiative and stands up for himself
I love Mickey! Defender of the Earth! He saved the planet(s) so many times...once with a biiig yellow truck.
I like Amy but Jesus Christ she was constantly doing Rory dirty.
Like Rose Tyler with Mickey but nobody complains.
@diamond dogs Yeah, that's a big reason why I don't like her. She kept trying to kiss/fuck the doctor even when she was with Rory. I get that it's supposed to be a joke but to me it's gross and unfunny like the blowjob joke in "Love and Monsters"
@@mayotango1317 i wouldn't say nobody complains about the rose mickey relationship because i see people hating on her all the time because of that, but the way they both treated their partners was wrong (not that much with amy when you compare it with rose, most of the time it seemed like rose and mickey weren't even dating)
@@mayotango1317 yeah but at least Mickey gets to end up with Martha in the end
@@mayotango1317 Amy is nowhere near as bad as how Rose treats Mickey, with one or two notable exceptions (the domestic abuse in Asylum of the Daleks is very uncomfortable)
Something that's been missed here: part of the reason Rory's journey is different from Mickey's is *because* of Mickey's journey. The Doctor states in Vampires in Venice that he has seen before what happens when one partner leaves to travel with the Doctor and the other partner is left behind. Because of what happened to Mickey, the Doctor will not let Rory remain behind. He drags Rory along to Venice to keep that history from repeating. Rory runs with it, but the Doctor is the one who initiates the decision.
One wonders if Mickey had stepped aboard the TARDIS when the Doctor first offered, would he and Rose be together today? Or was the love between Rose and the Doctor an unstoppable force?
I always assumed that the Doctor brought Rory along because of what happened with him and Rose, but I forgot that he directly mentioned it.
True ,bu probably won't make difference, one of the biggest diffeent between rose and amy was that how in love Rose was with the doctor, and it was reciproque. Eleven never look to have romantic feelings to Amy, i think if Mick went to the tardis they onlywould ahve a more bitter end to that relationship, specially after 9 regenrate in the 10, that was not even hiding or fighiting what he feel to rose.
And never forget, rose had no problems with flerting with captain jack in series 1, i already to late to MIckey, to not be to hars in rose as the video was to Amy..probably it has something as mick acted in episode 1 that make her fall out of love in him
Eleven also is not 10,or not even 9, he is a lot more secretive and manipulative, 10 and 9 are much more openly in that feeling sabout mick and rose, specially 10
@@rodrigobueno8652 I think its down to the difference in where the characters were in thier lives. The 9th Doctor... he was a broken man, destroyed by the timewar, he needed someone. He was man who hated himself, needed to learn to love himself again and Rose enabled him to do that, which is why he let her close because his too smart not to realise that he needed it. His never previously got close to his companions before (Probably due to understanding the nature that, as he is a timelord and they are human it will always end in heartbreak for him) and yet he ignores all this because at that time... he needed someone.
By the time Amy rolls around, his a different Doctor. He doesn't have the same post timewar scarring that 9 had and he just regenerated from the 10th, who had just said a final goodbye to Rose. So despite being heartbroken, he has been freshly reminded that human/timelord relationships are bad. He just wanted to go out and have fun in the universe to cheer himself up.
I remember hearing that Noel Clarke apologized for his performance in “Rose”, saying that he misunderstood the character and the maturity level of the audience.
That makes sense
Not his fault, he has a thing called a director for a reason.
@@lewisallan9963 It really wasn't his fault. RTD explicitly wanted Mickey to be this way. He wanted to humiliate the black man and make him just the most pathetic character. It's then really rich of him to try and be this progressive woke man with the current season now, when you remember what he did with Mickey.
i HATED how amy was constantly hitting rory and how in the episode the god complex he flinched away after saying something because he just assumed that she would hit him for it. like.....that's really disturbing looking back on it. in the same episode i thought it was interesting that rory didnt see his fear and was actually presented with an exit door because his lack of faith, which is something i wish they delved into a bit more. rory has always been the most relatable companion to me
also i understand that amy was the main companion for eleven, but you would think that after all that time traveling together, eleven would care more about rory? like when amy and rory jumped off the building in manhatten, the doctor only called after amy, and in the god complex rory is put in harms multiple times when they are trying to capture the beast and no one ever checks up on him.
oh thaats not ok
asterisms honestly!! the hitting thing is actually so sad and disturbing. and now that i think about it, their whole relationship seems really toxic. (also sorry for the long comment lol)
i really like amy, rory and 11, but i just hate how amy treats rory. the way he gets treated is awful, especially in the beginning. it’s like amy doesn’t even care about him despite him clearly loving her a lot. she literally cheats on him before their wedding *and* tries to kiss the doctor at their wedding. even after all this, rory still stays with amy even though he doesn’t deserve to be treated this way. he stays with her unsure if she even still loves him, but he does it all for amy. the fact that the doctor barely cares about him bothers me too. i don’t have a problem with amy being attatched to the doctor and all, but i feel like it should’ve been less.. toxic?
he’s basically a doormat to them, and i don’t think the show really addresses it like they did with mickey. my biggest problem with this is the fact that amy never apologizes or treats him better. yes, she loves him, but that shouldn’t excuse the way she acted towards him. i love rory’s character arc, but i just wish amy had more development that way.
i also would’ve loved it if the doctor and rory had a closer relationship! (or grew closer to each other throughout the series). i feel like if all three of them had a closer bond to each other, they would’ve been super lovable.
edit: on another note, we rarely get to see the doctor have a close male companion. i think it’d be really interesting for the doctor to have a main male companion that he cares about since his/her main companions are usually female lol
ArtsySundae ArtsySundae i agree!! the ponds and the doctor used to be my favorite tardis team when i was younger, and i still love them, but rewatching the episodes now, i'm picking up on a lot of toxic things about their whole dynamic that i definitely didn't see the first time. he guarded amy in the pandorica for 2000 years and although he says he barely remembers it, the show doesn't touch on how that affected him as much as it should have. in asylum of the daleks, rory is fully convinced that he loves amy more than she loves him, and he just came to accept that even though she says otherwise. not to mention that she slaps him AGAIN in that scene. and the fact that she kicked him out because she can't have kids instead of....talking to him doesn't sit right with me. i understand that it was a difficult decision for her but the fact that they don't have the type of relationship where they talk about things like that is kinda sad.
Growing up I related to both Mickey and Rory. Amy, Rose, Jack and The Doctor were the idealized adventurers you imagined/wish you were. But realistically most of us would be like Mickey and Rory.
I think such a dynamic is underrated and something it wouldn't hurt to return to.
And they thought Rory was gay - story of my life 😂
I agree. I think they also resonate with viewers because they're allowed to start at quite a low point and evolve into heroes - which makes you feel that if they can do it, maybe you could too.
There's a huge burden on the main companion to be likeable right from the jump, but some of the most popular characters in the show's history started off deeply flawed and grew to be better. Characters like Donna, Jack, even Strax and Vastra. Viewers really connect to that kind of development. I'd love to see it done again with a main companion.
Damn I would like to be a robotic centurion aged of a thousen years 😂
i empathized with DANNY PINK id be just like him.
The one thing I don't like about Mickey's arc is that he basically just turns into a badass offscreen. With Rory, we got to see every stage of his evolution
Mickey turns into a badass off screen? Nope. He just turns into a badass who can shoot well of screen. He was already a badass. Rory, we have no idea why he is so devoted to Amy or why he puts up with how she treats him. He protected her for 2,000 years and we don't really know why beyond him loving her. Mickey at least was able to step out from Rose's shadow. Rory remained second fiddle till the end and dedicated his life to a woman who wanted to cheat on him after only 3 adventures on their wedding night. I really like Rory but a huge chunk of character development is missing that explains why Rory puts up with it. Why is he so devoted to her?
I get why you're saying that about Mickey, but I don't think it is an issue. One thing that Davies was especially great at was momentum in world-building. Often in world-building with characters or plotlines that pop in and out of the story, writers tend to just resume from where they left off, even though in real-life, if you ignore someone for a year, they're gonna be in a different place and will act differently when you finally catch up with them. Davies was great at realistically showing and justifying offscreen character growth without it feeling unearned (see Mickey, Captain Jack, Donna), and when the story returned to the same locations or time periods just a few years later (The Long Game > Bad Wolf; The End of the World > New Earth > Gridlock; the Christmas specials) you got to see the direct impacts of the events of the previous episodes.
@@rindoubaka1574 Many say why Marge loves Homer Simpsons, or why the nice Hal loves the psycho Lois in Malcolm in the Middle.
Because love is hard to explain, you feel it and that is.
To be honest, Mickey and Rose were already doomed before the Doctor showed up. While Amy is the one who needs and loves Rory, Rory was always the Eleventh Doctor's true companion.
@@BambiTrout RTD'S is just a overrated soap opera.
@@rindoubaka1574 this type of stuff happens in real life. There’s a lot of beta “simps” out there who would move mountains for a woman who couldn’t give a fuck about them. I’ve met many men who are like this. & even more women who take advantage of men like this
Rory punching Doctor in The Big Bang Two is one of the most beautiful scenes in this show's history and I feel it's not talked about enough.
Well deserved!!
I don’t think that Rory really classifies as a Tin Dog in the same way that Mickey does. He is secondary to Amy in season 5, but by series 6 he is a full companion in his own right and takes on the role of the male companion from classic who (the male companion would be the action hero that punches the bad guys because the Doctor couldn’t). Mickey's role in the show is facilitated by Rose completely, but eventually grows to the point where he has the strength to step out of her shadow and leave the TARDIS for his own adventures, whereas Rory, although he is dragged in by Amy initially, is accepted into the team very quickly and proceeds to develop his own relationship with the Doctor that doesn’t revolve around Amy. Which is not to say that Amy is irrelevant to his character, she is vital, but Rory is vital to Amy's character, he brings her back to Earth, in fact their relationship is what makes that TARDIS team work. Mickey meanwhile can (and indeed does) be removed and the Doctor and Rose can carry on like normal.
I completely agree, I would not class Rory as a secondary companion at all
i actually preferred rory to amy for most of their run
@@doodoo5594 Me too, Rory's my guy.
Rory is to show how the Doctor learned from Mickey, in a sense.
I couldn't agree more- it's very subtle, but Rory even shows what the Doctor could be if they weren't so self-centered. He has 2,000 years worth of memories(and at times the Doctor even treats Rory as his senior) but unlike 9,10, or 11, he's very rarely vindictive or pompous. If anything, that memory of another life is where Rory learned to BE a man of action.
The way Amy was written was such a blunder, she was vile to Rory even asking the doctor to kiss her at her wedding and the show never presented this as bad- either she should have apologised or Rory should have left her
Ngl when i first watched her stories - I HATED Amy. From Flesh and Stone which was the episode that prior I was still trying to decide whether or not i liked her but when she tried to shag the doctor - I loathed her. Only looking back on her arc knowing the journey I like her but still hate her in s5.
Rose at the time I honestly just enjoyed the show for what it was an started watching at an Idiots Lanturn when J first heard of it so Mickey had already left
I blame a lot of this on Moffat's clear desire to make Amy a "sexy" companion. He wrote the sexy first and the character later, which isn't the best way to do it.
Karen Gillan is a knockout - and she's no less of a knockout in season six when she's wearing jeans and a flannel shirt. But in season five it's as if for some mad reason Moffat didn't trust that viewers would fancy her, so he kept putting her in tiny skirts and kissogram costumes. Just shoving it in your face all the time, as if he was screaming "LOOK HOW SEXY MY COMPANION IS" in every scene. Because we'd never have noticed otherwise . . .
Worse is that he didn't seem to trust that that warm, flirty vibe that makes a character sexy would come through in the acting alone. He didn't trust Karen to just *be* sexy without trying. So he wrote in all these really heavy-handed scenes of Amy flirting with anything that moved. I really do think he intended it to make her look sexy, but it had the effect of making her look fickle and promiscuous instead.
I do like Amy, but the man-eater schtick did a disservice to her character and to her love story with Rory.
Still Amy had more character that Yaz, Ryan and Jodie Whittaker.
@@mayotango1317 she had character, it was too sexualised and too selfish, but in season 7 she and Rory are very nice together I think. I wish we got a story that she ran off before her wedding as she was scared and learnt actually Rory was lovely that would have been brilliant
@@mayotango1317 True. I haven't been able to connect with the Chibnall era at all. But that was always a problem of his imo. His characters feel like they're missing something. Like all the components are there and it should be hitting the mark, it should be making you feel something, but it's just . . . bland. I have the same problem with Gatiss. We desperately need some new blood in the writer's chair.
Now how come the secondary companions Mickey and Rory are literally hundreds of times better than what we’ve got now.
I always liked rory better than amy he just oozes likableness
Joshua Wright Yeah, Amy wasn’t the best person. Rory always got the short end of the stick.
Because at that time the BBC still allowed strong female AND male characters.
@@karenhall4645 Now they allow neither
@@karenhall4645 The problem is not "allowing", the problem is that Chibnall is a bad showrunner. If he was good, most people wouldn't resort to politics to explain why the show is bad.
I think the 11th Doctor had a lot to do with helping to keep Amy and Rory together, particularly bringing him along (and trying to fix their marriage later). I think he learned a lot after seeing what happened with Rose and Mickey, so the arcs of Mickey and Rory also reflect the Doctor's growth as a character.
I see a lot of hate for how Amy treated Rory and while I can't always defend her actions, but I believe her drive to want to stay with the doctor and even be in a relationship is just her being unwilling to probably grow up and move on. Rory is her future but that's just scary so she keeps avoiding him. That said deep down, if it mattered she would ALWAYS chose Rory over the doctor.
I think we 1st see that in the dream lord episode
And we last see it in angels take manhattan
Leila damn you didn’t have to say it like that
Only because it is a fictional show and you have to write it that way or people would be pissed. In reality, Rory would've been constantly cheated on even before Doctor showed up and Amy would drop his ass for Doctor in 2 seconds.
and ima stay hating her
Every time I think about how much I loved Ten, the thought is always marred by a 'yeah but he was an absolute asshole to Mickey', and it makes me sad, because Mickey was great and didn't deserve the abuse he got. I'm glad he found someone leagues above Rose in the end though.
He actually wasn’t that bad to him, just a few jokes here and there. The worst was calling him an idiot
@@ace90200 He constantly demeaned him, like when he completely forgot about him at the start of the Cyberman two-parter and had him holding a button for half an hour longer than he needed to.
I think 9 was worse. Aside from jack, it felt like he had a vendetta against guy's
A big difference between those two is that one keeps trying to impress an egotistical jerk who treats him like trash and steals his girlfriend while the other is not impressed, is proud of himself and punches the Doctor in the face.
Also, whereas Mickey was just Rose's boyfriend, Amy and Rory were engaged and then married.
And of course, Rose and 9/10 met abruptly when Rose and Mickey were already grown up, and quickly got along extremely well together, and were supposedly travelling a significant amount before Mickey even got the offer, let alone asked to come along.
Meanwhile 11 was a constant presence in Amy's, and by extension Rory's childhood's due to showing up when they were 6/7, then miss-timing a trip by about 12 years before returning, then again by 2 years, and Amy and 11 only went on a few trips before heading back at which point Amy made advances on the Doctor and he noped hard out to grab Rory for relationship counselling.
For Mickey the Doctor was something that came out of nowhere who he studied up on in the year Rose was missing because the Doctor has horrible time-management skills, whilst Rory basically grew up listening to his crush and her best friend often talking about this super cool imaginary friend of hers, and them suddenly alien stuff's happening and turns out he wasn't imaginary.
Hmm aren't they both trying to impress an egotistical jerk that treats them like trash? It's just that for Rory the jerk happens to be Amy
@@hellogoodbyeandallinbetween You seem to have forgotten that Amy Pond's childhood and life was ruined because the Doctor was late.
@@mayotango1317 Still not an excuse for the way she treated Rory. I wish they had addressed it in the show
I'd love to see you make a video about Amy and Rory's relationship. I recently finished rewatching series 5 and I only just realised how terrible Amy treats him. I'm almost surprised no one has brought this up yet because if the genders were swapped people would have had an issue with the kind of relationship they had.
And she never really grows to apologise, although I think in series 7 she is much more likeable
But still she love him, I never feel that Rose really loves Mickey.
But Clara and Danny...that is really abusive.
@@mayotango1317 she may love him but she is worse than rose or Clara, trying to cheat with the doctor on their wedding night (then expecting him to be okay with it as they are both her 'boys', slapping him in asylum of the Daleks before saying she's done more for him than he has for her, asking the doctor to kiss her in front of him on their wedding night, constant flirting with the doctor, teasing him from childhood, telling the doctor she was pregnant before him etc. etc.
Rose fell out of love with Mickey and left him behind, whilst Clara was dishonest. Amy was downright wicked it was such a weird dynamic Moffat decided upon
@@jgr2637 Maybe because Amy was traumatized as a child by a broken promise? Four psychiatrists who told her the Doctor didn't exist, and that Amy bit them? Living in a small town where nobody respects you and treats you like crazy should affect anyone?
One of my favourite aspects of Mickeys arc is the his interactions with 9 - the growing respect is believable and really nice - I always felt sad when 10 went back to treating him like shit. But then I guess I just love how 9 interacted with everyone xD
Imagine the reaction if Rory slapped Amy in asylum of the daleks, rly disgusting how they put that in and acted as tho its fine. Just fuels the idea men cant be the victim in a relationship
Couldn’t of said it better myself. What rory was saying was true as well. What comes to mind when he said that, is amy trying to kiss the doctor at their own wedding and amy coming onto the doctor in flesh and stone.
@@jadeorsomething1591 Yeah I rly dont like amy tbh
Say it louder for the ppl in the back!
@@jadeorsomething1591 From that point onwards Rory was in a abusive relationship.
Yeah same with river slapping the doctor almost everytime they see each other
If we're talking secondary companions, I'd love to see a piece on Wilf or Jack. Or maybe a dual video, like the Mickey / Rory one you've done here.
Wilf and Jack might not seem to have that much in common at first glance, but they share some interesting thematic territory. They both serve as companions in episodes where the Doctor is confronting his mortality, and they both end up becoming part of his regeneration.
It's funny. Rose revives Jack with the regenerative energy that kills Nine and creates Ten. This action of hers means Jack is alive later on in the series to acquire Ten's discarded hand - a hand which is instrumental in creating the DoctorDonna hybrid and TenToo. Undoing the effects of this regeneration energy on Donna causes her to lose her memory, which is the incident that really bonds Ten and Wilf - a bond that leads to Wilf serving as companion later, and playing a pivotal role in Ten's death / regeneration. It sounds convoluted when you write it out like that but there's a clear through line. Jack shares in Ten's birth and Wilf shares in his death, essentially.
Jack and Wilf are also both major characters in episodes about the Master as well, now that I think about it. They have some really interesting similarities.
I love that Mickey and Martha got married. They complete each other, both as people and in terms of character arcs.
It's so nice to see people pointing out Amy's abusive and manipulative behaviour for once. As a child she was my favourite companion, but now I'm older I find her so obnoxious.
Well it’s not something that truly stays with her. Luckily both of them grow by the time they are killed off
Rory was (and is) absolutely my favourite! I loved Rory and Amy as kid. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve come to respect it. Rory was incredible. He didn’t do what he did because ‘I aM a MaN’ or something. He did it because he loved Amy.
One of the fictional characters I look up to.
When it's all said and done, Whenever Amy has to choose, she always picks Rory over the Doctor; in the dream lord episode she chooses to die if it means being with him and does the same in the angels take Manhattan.
I believe Rory is getting some big finish during his time guarding amy, I love Rory as a character so it will nice hearing some more heroic bits for him
The Last Centurion sets, yeah
It's kinda weird to say given that literally on their wedding day Amy tries to kiss the Doctor, but I think Mickey got treated worse than Rory in some regards, maybe not in the grand scope of things since Rory does go through a lot more, but in the more mundane regular human level. It felt like they tried to write him in a way where he wasn't a bad guy but that he couldn't compare to the Doctor so Rose leaving him wouldn't seem like cheating. At the beginning it's not like he and Rose are friends who casually hook up. From the first episode alone you get the impression they have know each other for a long time and then became a couple some considerable time before The Doctor shows up. And while 11 does make fun of Rory he actually never views Amy as a potential love interest and when Amy tries to sleep with him it's like the Doctor realized the same thing was about to happen again. So he made an effort in wanting to get Amy and Rory experience the same things to make them equals. I'm sure that had something to do with Moffats plan for 11 and River. But 9-10 does pretty much straight up steal a commited girlfriend, sure she can make her own choices and if she decided to break up with Mickey that would be one thing. I'd say the guy puts up with quite alot given that the doctor one minute is obssesed with Rose and then the girl in the fire place happens and Mickey never once tries to leverage that against him or does a "see I told you so" to Rose.
It was nice thought to see in the final episode that the two characters who really got their love lives upended by the Doctor get togther, even though it felt a bit "lets get the two black people together even though we've never seen them really interact after we did seem to set up Martha was going to get together with 'Lucifer' after the 1 year reset".
yeah I never really got martha and mickey at all
maybe that its easier to close up the companions story like that because the doctor wouldn't go out of his way to find mickey lets be honest, but it'd also be nice to see what happened to him... hence mickymartha.
weird. i would have prefered martha and the lucifer dude, maybe they could also have been working with mickey and some random girlfriend/wife he had as duo couples freelance alien fighting.
@@KeySnow I'm sure it was mostly made out of convenience and also, it's not like Tom Ellis was well known at the time, and a lot of people watching would probably not even remember his character unless they had been rewatching the show or was bingeing the show.
But even if the year got reset, he proved to be a character that really preformed under extreme pressure. And you could see there was some kind of connection, and if I remember right she said she was was engaged to him when she came back.
So even if they couldn't bring Ellis back for the cameo, you could still have the scene play out mostly the same. With them as co-workers and friends. Maybe instead of "this is no place for a married woman" he could have said "you sure this is the best place for a pregnant woman" Or if they didn't want to come right out and say it "maybe Thomas was right that you should allow yourself to take a year off". It would give the audience enough ending characters to get closure but still keep the focus on the doctor since the goodbyes are as he puts it his reward.
How does Mickey, a side character with barely any screen time, have more character development in 4 episodes than any of the season 12 companions in 26 episodes?
Only been 21 because of the short series length. That’s still 11 more than should be needed to flesh them out.
@@xenon8117 That's 20 more than needed to flesh them out. If Captain Adelaide Brook can be a fleshed out character in a single episode, so can any companion
@@rindoubaka1574 You're right, I was far too generous. Just earlier I was thinking about Martha and in her first 10-15 mins she was clearly characterised. Doctor, shows intelligence and a caring, hardworking nature. Phone calls with family shows she's used to drama and is the centre of her family dynamic, someone reliable to sort out arguments. Hospital on the moon, no atmosphere but we aren't dead and there's no apparent air loss so she's clearly thinking about why they are there instead of panicking.
Gwen Cooper, Police Officer. In everything changes they start off with her seeing a dead body and it's just run of the mill, not a fun evening but she's used to this. Torchwood swan in and she has to look in to satisfy her curiosity. After seeing the glove work she ends up spending hours investigating Torchwood to get inside, tried to keep her memories and then manages to remember enough to find her way back to the water tower. One of the few to get past retcon's effects. One episode shows off the Torchwood team but mainly shows us Gwen.
Yaz could have been similar but obviously less experienced with her being new to the job. They only real hints of her being police are talking to the Judoon and trying to find the doctor, which is a plot point instantly dropped. Nothing of her character has been fleshed out and used.
I wasn't planning on a rant but the lack of care taken with the writing for a show I loved since new who started airing is such a letdown.
@@xenon8117 Rant away. You know what the sad thing for me is? I don't even rant about the new era. I'm just so apathetic with the whole thing. I ranted a bunch when during the Moffat era but I was still invested. Nowadays though I just wish they would end the show. Capaldi really is the last Doctor.
Good writing
Mickey and Rory: great role models for us guys whether we're in a relationship or not.
Noel Clarke and Arthur Darvill: great role models as actors, as they continued after Doctor Who into other popular tv shows and dramas.
I'm not so sure Rory is a great role model at times, his love and loyalty is beautiful but he also rarely challenges Amy even when she tries to cheat on him and physically assaults him. If he learnt the relationship was toxic then that would be something to look up to
This Noel Clarke comment hasn’t aged well lol 😅😅
Mickey is fairly good role model material. Rory never grew out of being weak and allowing people to abuse him. Not a role model material in the least.
End scene of The Almost People is my favourite Rory moment, he knows something's wrong and when the Doctor tells him to move he just does, so much respect for Rory
“Rory never has that journey of loss”
Did... we forget when they divorced...
I never thought of Rory as the tin dog after the first few episodes. As soon as he started travelling with the Doctor and Amy he was a full time companion for me.
It might not have been apparent from the start, but Rory is in fact way more of a role model than the Doctor ever was. He is loyal, loving, caring, kind, brave, determined, strong, clever...
And so is the Doctor, more or less, but he still is an omnipotent, ancient Time Lord. Rory on the other hand was completely new to time travel and all its dangers when he started, but he adapted so quickly and so well.
The scene where he walks into the Cybermen bataillon in A Good Man Goes To War was impressive, but I remember another scene that really stuck with me: in The Impossible Astronaut, right after the Doctor "was killed during regeneration", Amy is a snivelling mess. River and Rory are near to tears, but composed. They have a petrol can. It's Rory who says "If we're going to do this, let's do it properly", and then proceeds to set the Doctor's corpse (or so they thought) on fire. It's him who stands at the shore, alone, when they all look at the Doctor, burning on a boat, floating in Lake Silencio.
I doubt every other companion could've done this. It takes more than being in the Doctor's company for a bit, you also need to be a remarkable human being.
That's the referenced clip: ruclips.net/video/j_Z-8FKN_lw/видео.html
I love how Mickey and Martha got together. They were both over looked by the doctor but saw each others worth
And funnily enough both were once in Rose’s shadow at some point.
I'm glad you acknowledge Rory and Mickey as _secondary_ companions only. They weren't there for the Doctor.
If Rose went travelling to Bristol and 10 to Neptune, Mickey would go Bristol. Same goes for Rory.
Mickey and Danny Pink yes, but Rory would be busy saving the Doctor and Amy.
Rory is one of the few companions that ended up being more badass than the Doctor, ♥ The Last Centurion
I like Rory's development over time because it's a lot more subtle and Mickey is really great too. It's interesting that in Nardole's case it was his relationship to the doctor that changed that made him the hero who gave up his old life save just one village and in a sense he is a companion that River Song left for the doctor.
I think Rory had a better arc and while Mickey was great but i feel like him and martha should of been in torchwood or in Marthas case again
What d'you mean again? She hasn't been in torchwood before...
id also like to hear some Mickey and Martha audios or audios with him and the 10th doctor and Rose
@@tatertatertatertatertater she was for an episode or two.
@@RedMadMichael Which episodes were those? Sorry I don't have a good memory.
@@tatertatertatertatertater she was in season two, episodes 6, 7 and 8 or "Reset", "Dead Man Walking" and "A Day In The Death"
Mickey is so underrated. His character becomes so great during the age of steel story line in particular
I'm sad that you don't get as much recognition. You make some really awesome videos.
I really wish Rory had confronted Amy about her behaviour at some point. They closest we ever got to it was Rory saying he loves her more than she loves him, but she retorted by saying she loved him more because she gave him up so he could feel justified in finding another partner to have kids. But Amy is completely oblivious to Rory spending *2000 YEARS* alone, just to keep her alive. I really wish he'd thrown that in her face at some point. I really wish he had said "Don't you dare talk to me like that. I sacrificed everything, my own sanity, while you were trying to snog the Doctor at every opportunity so don't you dare talk to me about sacrifice." This would then really make a huge payoff in the final run of the two characters, with Amy sacrificing her own life for Rory, not once, but twice in the span of one episode.
I've always really liked Mickey and Rory and they have better arcs than some of the main companions. I have to say Matt Smith's Doctor shows Rory a bit more respect than David Tennant did Mickey, probably because of the Rose love triangle thing.
I like Mickey, but Rory is by far one of my favorite Companions in all of Nu Who. Thank you for this Video, it focused very much on how human these two Characters are.
I have started rewatching Doctor Who with my brother who is watching it for the first time. I forgot about how much growth Mickey goes through during the first series. We just finished Boom Town, and I love how much it focuses on Mickey being an after thought in Rose’s mind. I am excited for us to move on to the series 1 finale and to see my brothers reaction to his first regeneration.
I always get so sad watching Mickey get rejected over and over :( poor mickey
Thank you so much for making this video! Rory is my favourite Companion of all time, and he gets overlooked by most DW discourse. I knew he was something special when he called out the Doctor for making people a danger to themselves in Vampires of Venice and he never let me down. And your premise of Rory not being in awe of the Doctor like Amy and most other former companions are is pretty much confirmed in The God Complex, since Rory is the only character who is shown a way out. I do wish we had gotten more Doctor and Rory one-on-one content, as they had a dynamic that I feel we don’t get often enough; someone who isn’t awed by the Doctor, or in love with him, but still has a close and meaningful personal relationship with him. Mickey never really feels like he has much connection to the Doctor, but Rory certainly does. So once again, thank you so much for highlighting two often overlooked companions who don’t get enough credit for their achievements and sacrifices, one of whom happens to be the best boyfriend-turned-husband in the universe. (Seriously, if a guy was willing to spend 2000 years guarding a box to protect me I’d marry him in a heartbeat.)
I love these two guys so much but mad props to the Doc in universe seeing a pattern forming when Amy tried seducing him.
“Nope, not doing that again!”
And then he immediately went to get Rory. Sometimes the Doctor actually does learn from his mistakes. Also, on what a shit Amy is, she carried on trying to come on to the Doctor after he refused, so that's assault.
Also think he just saw her as a child still because he'd still call her little amelia and give her kissed on the forehead when he was being emotional towards her...
I wish we got to see more of Mickey and Martha's relationship. Two people who overcame unrequited feelings where the TARDIS got in the way...
Can't wait for the Series 3 reviews
Mickey was awesome especially when he started dating Martha, he was so badass, also has one of the best lines ever!
"It's like Steven Hawkins meets a Speaking Clock"
i love watching doctor who videos, on my birthday, wearing brand new headphones!
Rory is my fave companion, and I'm ancient enough to have watched Tom Baker when he originally aired...
They're both underrated and both incredible :D Great video essay and really interesting analysis of each arc!! :)
Unfortunately now they have three tin dogs as companions, they should probably write longer episodes again as they have interesting premises, but generally bad development.
They're not really even tin dogs, at least K9 always had a use even if it was just to do convenient computer things when The Doctor was being too stoic to work it out himself. 21 episodes into the Chibnall era and I'm not really sure what his companions bring to the show, except some light comic relief from Graham
@@alfiethomas5632 Yeah... They could die, I wouldn't even shed a tear... That's pretty sad, but they have nothing that can encourage to emotionally care about them :/
(And like you said, they don't seem to be of a great importance for the story...)
@@hildameroph8530 It doesn't help that we keep getting told "Look how adaptable, resourceful and deep our characters are" but on screen they're about as lively as a cardboard cutout. Just another problem with the era is that the writers don't seem to understand "show don't tell"
The episodes are longer now than they used to be
Rory Williams is the Darrin Stephens of the show, so likeable normal and badass as the Lone Centurion.
Great video essay. Mickie and Rory are 2 of my favourite companions. Loving all the comments replying to this vid.
'Amy is selfish, emotionally abusive and whiney.' That is quite literally my ex girlfriend. So glad I'm not a Rory anymore, lol
Add inconsiderate to the list as well.
That sound more like Clara Oswald.
@@mayotango1317 It's a toss up which was worse, Clara, Rose or Amy.
@@avashnea All three of them stink. Martha is superior
@@mayotango1317 Clara was many things but she wasn't whiny. The Doctor projected that onto her whilst she let him vent without complaint as HE whined about the fact that she let him down ONCE after 1) her boyfriend died, 2) she spent most of Season 8 putting up with the Doctor being a sociopathic shitbag and 3) she spent millions of lifetimes saving his ungrateful ass. She never even complained about the fact that he didn't even notice that she kept living and dying for his sake for 10 out of 13 of his lifetimes. The only Doctor who actually had an excuse for that was John Hurt because the Time Lock blocked Clara's echoes from getting into the Time War. The only time she even vaguely implied how upsetting that must have been was when she joked that forgetting her was "offensive" and that was in literally her very last scene on the show. Clara didn't complain for trivial reasons and only laid into the Doctor when he was being an arsehole.
This is preciely the reason why Mickey and Rory are my favourite side characters.
Honestly I've always loved both Mickey and Rory
I've always loved both Mickey and Rory. They're such great examples of how anybody can be a hero.
Only recently have I come to realize how great Mickey’s journey is
Everytime I see Rory, I hear Amy in the background yelling his name to help her.
Mickey was so severely underused tbh like i loved his character so much but i really wish we could’ve seen his full transformation from average dude working in a garage with his cool old cars like the beetle and the mini, to the badass who saved sarah jane and then married martha. thinking about it now the fact he was presumably a mechanic could’ve been incorporated into episodes
I always wondered if Mickey's actor had problems with how second handed his role was in the show, and that's why they have Mickey a lot of character lol
Jokes aside he's one of the most underrated characters in DW history. I haven't reached Matt Smith's series yet so I don't know who Rory is for now.
Edit: finished watching seasons 5 and 6 and now at episode 4 of season 7. Rory and Martha are my favourite companions ever. Possibly Donna as well.
I can understand your dislike for Amy, but I think she also grew a lot as a character and as a romantic interest for Rory. She started off very young and immature and even acknowledges that she never really admitted how much Rory meant to her until she nearly lost him (in Amy's Choice). The Amy at the beginning of season 5, who felt she had the chance to live her lifelong dream of running away with the Doctor is very different than the Amy who in season 7 tries to give Rory up because she feels that's what he needs to be happy. In the end she chose to stop running with the Doctor and chose to stay with Rory instead, in essence giving up her childhood dream to continue in a more grown up one with the man she loved.
That's a good overview! 👍
@@darrensmith8730 Thanks! It helps that I'm a huge fan of the Ponds and their time in the Tardis :-)
@@StillJustDreaming Same. It's my mum's favourite era, too.
I always love secondary companions because it always offers a refreshing view and more character conflicts
I love that Mickey and Martha got married, but I wish they had shown how that relationship had happened on screen.
I don't think it's said enough- Arthur Darvill as a TREMENDOUSLY TALENTED ACTOR. His performance is great across the board but especially in episodes like The Girl Who Waited?? He's phenomenal.
In the first series I thought you could take Mickey out of it and you wouldn't notice, but second series he made up for it.
Mickey and Rory are two of my three (Donna Noble being the other) favorite companions. This is because the two share something in common--doing something they done want to do (traveling with The Doctor) to protect the primary companion.
I've now watched all your videos, as of December 13th of 2020. And I can confidently say that you are my favourite Doctor Who analyzer. I entirely agree with your opinions, you're the bloody Roger Epert of Doctor Who.
Rory should’ve stood up for himself more to make him more likeable. I feel like Amy took advantage of him a lot and sort of lorded it over him
You did a really great job on this one. I have mixed feelings about Moffat’s heading of Who and Sherlock. But, your take on him and his writing team’s development of Rory, and overall improving tin dog characters, really has me reconsidering and finding new appreciation for the writing of that run/era of Who.
I only just realised that with 13 there is no secondary companion at all instead just three primary companions who are very much 2D and barely interact dynamically with one another
You know maybe that’s why the new series does not click it feels like everything is to smooth the companions and the doctor feel like one person and it makes it so hard still forcing Jodie’s first season.
It would be nice to hear your thoughts on the 'Flatline' episode, even though I imagine you'll talk about all the Dr. Who episodes eventually lol
I can tell you're putting a lot of effort into presenting your script in an engaging and entertaining way - especially through your intonation and the way you really try to make the sentences flow, usually from high to low. However, the sheer amount of high points, almost all of them sentence beginnings, grates on the ears. Have you considered varying it up a bit more, perhaps starting with lower tones or just having a more monotone sentence here and there to let the high-to-low sentences have some proper impact?
Rory Williams is my spirit animal.
Me: he's a simp!
Harbo: "People joke that he's a simp..."
Me: *missing the point entirely* You just said it!
Wow this is so interesting, I never thought of it like that! Just a little bit of constructive criticism - you read the script a bit like it is an advert on TV, try and read it in a more conversational tone as a more naturalistic approach better suits this kind of video essay. Great video, though! :)
Rory is still one of my favorite Dr. Who characters, Companion, Secondary Companion, or Otherwise...
So this was the essay you meant when I asked you. Noice
I think the point of Ricky is Ricky is the person that Micky could be without the doctor and Micky sees that and he wanted to be like Ricky but I don't think I'm correct
i think rory was always more interesting than amy, even in the eleventh hour he was the only person to notice the coma patients, and mickey has some of the best development in new who
Rory is more intelligent than Amy, that's in his character. He brings composure and thought during adventures while Amy is oblivious to such things
Remz 04 yh there’s so many episodes where is plot points are either just as interesting as amy’s (like the god complex) or more interesting, and overall his character is just way more interesting and funny
The use of rory as a nurse, for example in the hungry earth/cold blood really helps his development as sometimes he is the only one that can help people
Yeah, I loved this about Rory. That he had a practical skill the others didn't have, but also that he had such empathy. Because he was a nurse. I love when the companions job influences their role in the gang like that.
6:10 not only does money help save the day but K9 helps save the day twice in this episode. The “tin dog” role is the MVP of the episode
Not even joking, Mickey and Rory have always been two of my favorite companions. Quality trumps quantity any day, though some do have both going for them.
Same
Such a great video. Your content is so well made. I look forword to every upload.
Mickey had one of the best character developments in the whole show. Rory's deaths got annoying after a few times. Wished Ryan had got the same treatment. He has potential but Chibnall's writing is god-awful
Rory only died twice
@@cja5612 actually I think it was about 6
@@arandomqueerfanpeep7655 it’s 11 actually haha
Mickey is one of the most underrated and underserved characters in all of NuWho. Like Martha he got treated badly by the Doctor and the writing of the show (although Martha had the writing part slightly worse). Mickey is hilarious and a badass and every time he's onscreen I love him he just makes me smile. I'm glad it seems like more of the fans these days are coming around to appreciate him more!!!!
Agreed
Rory is my favourite of all the companions, as he was the most down to earth, and had the most natural development over the series.
Mickey is a brilliant example of character development! and Rory. ;)
Ryan: No, I don't think I will
The moment when Mickey realized he was the tin dog was so *chefs kiss *
Honestly one of the reasons I always hated Rose as a character is because how she treated Mickey.
I think one of the best, little things from Series 1 was Clive's website was real and updated by Mickey in-universe
The site's still up but it's honestly one of my favourite little things and really made the world feel alive.
www.whoisdoctorwho.co.uk/index2.shtml
Such as Adam Mitchell being mentioned in the page on fathers day as being 14 and writing a letter in to Mickey.
Really wish they would have made an 11th doctor story with Martha, Mickey, Amy and Rory. Have it be a joke that the Doctor is 5th wheeling the entire time only for River to appear at the end and the two take off in the TARDIS leaving the other four on some planet with one of them asking "he's coming back right?"
One small detail, Ricky wasn't a total badass, he was more of a tryhard when you realise he's only "london's number one most wanted for car parking fines"
As a big fan of K-9 and his contributions, I always found the shade they throw at the “Tin Dog” really insulting. Anybody remember his nose laser?
I just realised, it's rory an auton for the entire time after the pandorica
no because time was re-written so hes not an auton but remembers his past-life because of amy remembering the doctor.
Rorie started as a secondairy but ended as a main companion with amy
I'm doing a rewatch of the series and I just gotta say. Mickey deserves so much better than rose and I'm glad he ended up with Martha.
how to make a tin dog into secondary companion: have them face off Cybermen.