Is This Doctor Who's Most Underrated Dalek Episode?
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2020
- Despite the Daleks being the most popular Doctor Who monster, there is one particular story that tried to experiment with them, becoming widely disliked by fans in the process. But does it really deserve this hate?
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Oh, you changed your profile image. I like it.
And can we just appreciate that Dalek Sec wasn’t killed for disagreeing, he wasn’t even killed on purpose. He STOOD UP IN THE SHOT’S PATH TO SAVE THE DOCTOR.
“Dalek Sec was hero, I just couldn’t see it”
Cult of Skaro: “We were created to think outside of the box in order to find new ways to survive.”
Fans: “That’s such a cool idea!”
Cult of Skaro: >thinks outside of the box in order to find new ways to survive<
Fans: “This is fucking garbage.”
I do love how they conclude the plot run of the cult of Skaro, but I would e loved to see them more
The Daleks basically thought the same way
"They survive. They always survive while I lose everything."
Still gives me chills.
LOVE IT. I love when his “I save everyone I’m selfless” character gets drowned by his sorrow and pain. How dare they? How dare they separate me from everything I care about and have the nerve to survive? I love it
@@NileSWPhotography That rage is my favorite part about 10.
@@HishamA.N_Comicbroe same! 😫
For an April fools joke, you should pretend to make a new series, Hating the Praised, you pick apart beloved episodes, and make it sound like you hate them. For your first episode, Heaven Sent.
I actually love this idea but unironically. Some of the fan favourite episodes often have their downfalls overlooked due to nostalgia goggles/not-so-great episodes making them look far better in comparison. The Family of Blood is usually highly praised but the episode is honestly quite tedious if you're not into the 10th Doctor acting like a mopey human or Martha's character arc, as there aren't any other compelling characters in the story.
He’s basically already done this with The Girl in the Fireplace.
It should be called despising the defended
Attacking the beloved?
@@youraveragepersonwalkingth6850 best name by far
I didn't understand why this was so hated. It was a fantastic Dalek arc. Those Daleks that sway away from the Dalek norm will be exterminated.
Personally, I thought the human dalek design was pretty off-putting, but once I got past that I really enjoyed it.
I remember hearing an interesting point about how if it were any other villain, that speech in Hooverville would have belonged to the doctor. But because it was the daleks, he doesn’t even bother. Shows the thought process of the doctor believing there’s no hope for the daleks ever showing mercy.
That video would be Full Fat Videos' 'Moffat's Dalek Problem' Video Essay at roughly 4 minutes in. Thanks for bringing it up Varies
Honestly "wait people hate this?" Is just me with all of these!
Yeah im getting the same thing haha. Course I never got into the fandom stuff even a little bit (yay!)
Yeah, same. But to be fair, as a really big Doctor Who fan that grew up with these episodes I know I am blinded by nostalgia with a lot of them. There are very few that I dislike at all and even the average episodes there is something that I can gain from them.
I don't really HATE any RTD episodes. There are some I dislike but even they are still fun if watched with that expectation in mind. I don't think I found a Doctor Who episode unwatchable until Doctor Widow and the Wardrobe, and none that I wanted to burn with fire until Name of the Doctor. Although Timeless Children is the first episode to make me get wasted afterwards.
@@cameroncaws5959 Wow really? I liked the Doctor the Widow and the Wardrobe and thought the Name of the Doctor was fine, although I can understand why some may dislike Name of the Doctor. You don't think Love and Monsters is a trainwreck?
But I agree with The Timeless Child because to me, that is easilly the worst episode in Doctor Who's 55 years of existance. That is how much I hate that. I thought I hated Kill the Moon for being stupid and The Greatest Show in the Galaxy from Classic Doctor Who for being boring as hell but they seems like a Master Peice in Comparison to the Timeless Child.
@@TheZebbga I think I just found Doctor, Widow and the Wardrobe too boring to watch. In its defense its ending is possibly my favorite scene in Doctor Who history.
Asylum of the Daleks was probably the first to leave me feeling actively upset.
If we're talking Classic Who it goes back as far as The Web Planet.
I always found this episode interesting. I prefer 'bad' over boring. With this episode they tried something very new and interesting, whether they succeeded or not is up to you, but I respect the effort. And honestly, it doesn't deserve
the hate it gets. There are much worse Doctor Who episodea. Heck there are worse Dalek episodes. It's obviously not the best Dalek story but certainly is the most intriguing and a rather important one. Whether you like it not this two parter really influenced Doctor's personality and shone a new light in the doctor-dalek relation
Every time I see a reviewer taking this story for all that it is rather than getting hung up on the accents, how Sec looks or stuff like that, I’m so happy. This is genuinely my favourite story in the whole damn show and a lot of little details went into it, including Eric Loren’s attempts to play Dalek Sec with a lot of research in mind! He’d originally been told he could just use his regular voice with the New York accent to play the Hybrid (the same voice he used for Diagoras) but didn’t think that would be a great idea, so he worked with Briggs on learning the Dalek intonation and blended it with the accent to find a unique voice. If you listen carefully, it starts off a lot more halted and Dalek-like but gradually sounds more human as the episode progresses. I know it sounds a bit daft to some, but I actually like that this newborn hybrid still sounds like the equivalent of a Dalek speech pattern using a human voice box, just calmer. Daleks are dramatic as hell in the way they speak. To yell constantly would have sounded TOO ridiculous, but to sound completely human-like in tone would have been really weird.
That's a good analysis. The only problem I have with him though is the character design.
But I think it would have been interesting if he became a companion
Didn’t know that, that’s awesome!
What I especially love about this story is the fact that the Cult of Skaro don’t act like normal Daleks. We were told that they didn’t in Doomsday, but this time we actually SEE it.
Same, this is my favourite Dalek story of all time, I love the setting, the characters and how it adds a brilliant new dimension to the Doctor vs Daleks feud. Eric Loren was amazing Dalek Sec.
That was really interesting to know.
RTD/Moffat: Defending the despised
Chibnal: The despised
10th doctor: They're half human half pig
12th Doctor: like a hybrid
Dalek Sec: I'm half human half Dalek
12th Doctor: like a hybrid
Destined to stand in the ruins of Gallifrey... Lazlo the pig-man.
I’ve always really liked this episode. But then again, I really like most episodes. I just love the show
That's the spirit, love it!
It was only in the past couple of years that I found out that these episodes were not well liked, I always thought they were some of my favourite Dalek episodes ever, even after acknowledging the pig-slaves and Sec's hybrid design.
Being as young as I was when they came out, I thoroughly enjoyed the plot of the Daleks trying and rejecting to change, to get themselves out of a situation where they were basically doomed, even if I didn't truly understand the finer points of the plot at the time. Dalek Sec's actions and motivations made perfect sense to me as did the rejection of his plan by the other Daleks, who clearly weren't as revolutionary and as visionary as their leader. Their betrayal of him always made me think, "What would Davros or the Emperor have said and done to Sec for daring to change the Daleks so drastically?" I even wanted Sec to become a temporary companion to the Doctor, travelling with him to see why the Doctor saw the universe as he did and coming to his own conclusions about what to do with himself in his new hybrid form. Though it was fitting, if tragic in my eyes, that Sec died at the hands of his stubborn followers.
These episodes certainly weren't the strongest of the series or even the season, but they still remain a couple of my favourite Dalek stories in the entirety of Doctor Who, classic and revived, for what it did to explore what the Daleks would go through and how they saw themselves and their potential.
And thank you for detailing in this video why that was, you've explained my reasons for having these be my favourite Dalek episodes in a way I simply couldn't.
The Unknown SCP sadly I’d always figured it wasn’t well liked, to the point where my older brother openly said that he thought it was crap after I’d said I liked it and he looked at me like I was stupid. A lot of people online didn’t speak kindly about it at the time, which led to Helen Raynor becoming extremely upset. Apparently RTD had to convince her over the phone that she wasn’t a bad writer.
And there’s a number of fan works exploring different “what if” scenarios for if Sec had survived, including being a companion and going on his own adventures. I recommend giving The Exceptionals a look if you fancy that!
@@N3RDYG0GGLES Ooh, I shall check that out, thank ye :) Shame to hear about Helen Raynor, RTD did right in what he said to her. It fits that a script editor would direct episodes with fantastic writing and dialog.
Not sure if it's deliberate but Solomon and the bread scene might be a reference to the biblical story of Solomon the wise. Similarly to the bread being split in two but not necessarily obvious. Just a nice fun fact
Isnt that the one about cutting a baby in half?
Did you know that Solomon supposedly had a ring that controlled demons? His very existence is a matter of hot debate, so I’d love to see a Doctor Who story about the King of Judah.
The designs may not be perfect, but the makeup and prosthetics for Dalek Sec and the pig slaves were incredible. Doctor Who has better makeup than some Hollywood movies, imo.
I like the part where the Doctor and Martha talk about the origin of Hooverville and the Wall Street Crash in 1929.
Not only did it feel like I was watching an educational TV show where the Doctor actually knew some of Earth's history, which makes me believe more that he's travelled round a bit, but I actually used this piece of knowledge later in my life during my college years studying accounting.
Personally my favourite part of this story was dalek sec. Such an interesting idea and concept. A dalek who questions their own ideals. As the doctor said he was the smartest dalek. “If we are supreme then why are we not victorious.” The irony that the other Daleks were actually doing similar things to sec. they were also thinking of their own accord by questioning sec. they even rebel and talk behind secs back.
I really like this series (defending the despised)
Yeah, same. It's nice to see some positivity in the fandom. Harbo acknowledges the audience's criticisms and even adds a few of his own, but he doesn't bang on about it or nitpick every little thing. There's a nice balance.
I like these episodes A LOT and Tallulah, Solomon and Sec are some of my favourite side characters from this season. It would have been so easy to make Tallulah vapid and selfish but she’s a sweetheart and genuinely concerned about Martha, as well as being so welcoming of her boyfriend after his mutation.
Literally watched it a couple of days ago lol. Even my dad was impressed with it and he's usually critical of any Doctor Who episode after Christopher Eccleston. He said 'this must be the last one they spent money on.'
Did he watch blink?
@@rollingkirby as much as I love blink its probably not the best example for this instance as it was designed to be a low-budget episode
@@rollingkirby Hmm, he knows about the Weeping Angels but I don't think he's actually seen the episode. He just sort of watches occasionally when I've got doctor who on. We did watch Time of Angels and Flesh and Stone recently though and when River Song says 'What do you know about the Weeping Angels?' my dad said 'These were quite good ones when he (Matt Smith) was in it.'
FlyHyland So if he eventually sees it I hope he likes it
Dalek Bumps yeah true
The idea that the Empire State Building is next to Hooverville just shows how close something so rich and full of money, and wealth could be right next to a place of poverty, depression and death. Quite ironic how to this day, around the world, one street in a town could be different to another. I’ve seen it myself, one street has luxurious detached houses with multiple bedrooms and bathrooms and gardens etc, however the next street are small 1-2 bedroom houses on estates, poor hygiene and even clear that the houses are dirty. The contrast of wealth in the world is scary
Yeah where i live its usually all nice, but theres literally specific streets known for being poor and crime ridden. Everybody knows the streets by name and where they are to avoid them. Literally just one or two streets in an otherwise nice city. This applies to 5 cities near me lol
Honestly, I think the major issue with the Dalek hybrid's design is the length of the feelers. I like that they move of their own accord - it's a nicely creepy touch - but they would look better if they were longer, and more obviously tentacle like.
As it is, the feelers look unfortunately, er . . . penile.
And once you've seen that, it's VERY hard to unsee it. Waving in your face. In. Every. Scene. * winces *
So youd rather they were LARGE penile shapes rather than shorter ones? Haha
But actually though I agree, wouldve been cool to see something like Davy Jones' beard from Pirates of the Carbeishanwldin
@@zeallust8542 See, I think it's the length that makes them look so penile. That and the, uh . . . girth. 😆
@@lateralhistory haha, well, do we at least agree on the second part?
@@lateralhistoryThe....Joy of Sec's?
_ducks_
I loved this two parter, I wish the Dalek Sec hybrid would have survived and been explored more.
WHERE DOES THIS STACK UP IN THE TIER LIST?! I MUST KNOOOOOOOOOOOW
B!
I really loved the design of the Hybrid Sec… I love the way it moves so humanly and I think that’s why the design was created as it was. I’ve just always thought it’s so weird and bonkers that it is so Doctor Whoish. The single and disgusting wet tentacles like the Daleks, and fingers and a mouth to speak like humans. I just think it’s really well thought out and somehow true to the squid-like Dalek form. Also he’s acted so well that it makes it feel even more real. Love it :)
I love this episode and I always have. It really shows how unique the Cult of Skaro really are as Daleks, this story would not have worked under any other circumstances. I love how its inspired by B-Movies and uses the New York setting. My only real complaint about the episode overall is that Sec, Thay and Jast all die in a single story, when I think they could have made the Cult of Skaro recurring villains for longer and kept the Dalek plotline going without having to continuously come up with reasons for why individuals survived the Time War.
Yeah, the whole "Last of the Daleks" every time theres a new Dalek threat thing is getting old.
Chibnall Era: Exists
Defending the despised: Its free real estate
You can't even defend that.
I don't think even the biggest doctor who fan could defend orphan 55 ... it's just awful
I honestly think the Cult of Skaro is the most ingenious interpretation of the Daleks to date.
As I've said before, KKK meets Nazi Experimenters just can't be topped, there's so much new territory to explore. And yet, in their Doomsday debut, they could be any group of Daleks. The fact that they're scheming geniuses is overshadowed by the usual "Dominate and destroy at any cost" routine. In Series 4, as much as I love Caan, he's more of a deranged prophet than anything; the Skaro equivalent of the Visionary in Gallifrey's High Council. This is the only story where we had a chance to see the Cult of Skaro actually being unique, and it's pretty wasted, really. I love Dalek Sec, but the others are just reduced to soldiers.
A shame, really. I've written a few stories for the Cult of Skaro, and I'll more than likely go on to write more. _One of the biggest injustices of Russell's era was never seeing them properly in their element._
I wish they'd stayed around for longer. The were the best versions of them I think I've seen in NuWHo. That's what the Daleks needed, something to show that even a couple of them were insanely dangerous, and gave them a chance to develop some relationship to the Doctor personally.
It's an absolutely fine mid-tier episode. It doesn't reach the heights (how can it) of other RTD or even series 3 episodes but I've certainly never thought it was bad. I agree about the pig slaves not being great, and I don't like how Sec was killed off but aside from that it is a decent story. I especially like the interplay between the Doctor and the Cult of Skaro.
I would have liked the door open for Sec to come back, there could have been some great stories told with his evolving attitude towards other daleks - imagine if he was the 'good' dalek instead of Rusty, or something like that?
Seriously, they couldve just left that door open. Did even have to expand it in that episode. Yknow, temporal shift or smthn like the other one.
I can understand the common criticisms (Tallulah, Pig Slaves, Diagoras sounding like a twit, and Ten's really "JUST DO IT" moment.
But I actually really liked this episode when I saw it as a kid and as an adult. I loved the in-fighting in the Cult of Skaro particularly. Sec is honestly my favourite Dalek in the history of the show. So much imagination, so much ambition... squandered by the very backwards race that have an in-built sense of supremacy, even as they are the last four Daleks in existence.
And I love Sec's hybridised reveal too, the music always gets me pumping.
i quite liked this story. my friend told me he really didnt like it and i thought he was in the minority. then again im biased towards every season 3 story as it was the first doctor who box set i ever got and i rewatched this over and over again.
That story is in my opinion one of the best Dalek storylines in the entire show, mainly because it was one of the times the Daleks actually seemed to have brains and tried to fix their problems in ways other than "find a bigger weapon to kill them with."
Also, everyone has that season they have a complete and fully accepted bias towards. Mine's series 6 (the first season of the show I ever watched).
I agree with this video very much, I think especially the music in this episode does not always get the attention it deserves! I've always liked this episode and my best friend hates it but also watches your videos so we'll see if she agrees too ;)
By the way, I was thinking, maybe it might be smart to start the end credits with the Patreon list (maybe with the music credits next to it). The reason I think this is because when I started watching your channel, the music credits always were the moment for me to start looking for something else to watch and switch to one of the recommended videos because I knew there would be no interesting content from that moment onwards. If more of your viewers do this, they will not see the list of people and a lot of them might also not realize that you have a Patreon page because they have already clicked away before you pay attention to it. Of course you might have very good reasons of crediting the music first, but it was just something I was thinking about.
Anyway, keep up the great work! I feel like your channel spreads a lot of positivity about this amazing show, especially the way you tackle the less popular episodes.
The music is great! My Angel Put the Devil in Me has some pretty weird lyrics, but it’s still a bop along with everything else.
I can't hate this story. David Tennant reacting to the Human-Dalek Hybrid was the first thing I ever saw of Doctor Who.
I love this two parter for the dynamic between the doctor and daleks that we've never seen before. It's very introspective for the characteristics of the human race and it builds relationships so well even with the side characters. It's not action packed, and the CGI is not perfect, but I enjoy this for the emotional writing, triumph, and somber moments.
Edit: It helps to see these episodes in a better light when you are not expecting what the story should be like. These were some of my first doctor who episodes and thus I don't have the expectation for explosive action. I really like the tone they set for these two episodes.
2nd Edit: And I love Tallulah! She's not purely obnoxious for the sake of it. She has a show she's dedicated about and works for on the daily so she can get food on the table. She's brave, charming, stared grief in it's eyes and continued the strange adventure with her head up. And I loved her scenes with Martha!
As much as I can get frustrated with the untapped potential of this story, I can forgive it.
Originally, Russell commissioned Steven Moffat to pen this story, but he "messed them around" and dropped out at the last minute, taking the undesired Doctor-lite to make up for it. This means Helen had to write her first Doctor Who story with very little time. And not just any story, a two-parter - a Dalek two-parter at that! Considering the insane production issues, it's pretty good. I think it's just a shame that it could have been great.
Yeah, the only real issue i had with this episode is that it wasnt a 3 or 5 or however many it needs parter that dived deep into Dalek Sec, and that he died so theres no real chance of that ever being explored.
huh, I never knew this. And this further backs up my theory that Moffat hated writing for the daleks
@@harogenkitnsg2474 I mean - he avoided giving the Dalek’s the finale spotlight for three seasons (no idea after s7), and I don’t recall him ever writing anything other than Victory of the Daleks and Asylum of the Dalek’s.
@@awaywiththefaeries9464 Mark Gattis wrote Victory though
@@harogenkitnsg2474 oops… it’s been a long time since I watched VoD, and so many people were complaining about Moffat that I made the assumption he also penned the episode.
I always found this story underrated. The things it has to say about war and the different scars it can leave on people through the Daleks, The Doctor, Diagarus, and Solomon is some really great stuff.
I loved the pig slaves. They're a commentary on the state of humans at the time. They showed the beast like nature many people had to return to as a result of the depression. The lift scene of them waiting and bopping up and down goes to show that they're the same as us humans not to mention the obvious point that they're just converted humans who had their will to resist stripped from them in a very similar way to how many people could not disobey orders from higher ups in fear of starving (much like an animal). The pig slaves don't get enough credit for what they represent
I LOVE THIS STORY. Easily one of my favourites, I am surprised it's even considered controversial. It feels like a movie, and the musical glitz and glamour transports you in the world of New York while the underlying doom of the Great Depression is always present underneath. A fantastic story and criminally underrated. The Daleks are written so well, instead of just generic baddies like they are now.
This is easily my favourite Dalek story of all time, and I love all the other RTD Dalek ones. This story allows us to see another side to the Daleks, seeing them divided and at their most vulnerable. I love the setting, the historical context and Solomon's speech just breaks my heart, it's just such a brilliant and underrated story. David Tennant gives such an amazing performance especially when he shouts for the Daleks to kill him.
He never put it on the series 3 rank
He gave it a B in reply to another comment
I always enjoyed this episode. It helped that my history teacher would play the Hooverville scene when revising GCSE
I must be so biased, I love every episode you have covered in this series so far
The usual reaction I read about this episode is either "oh, the one with Andrew Garfield!" or "the one with (another) bad accent". Squid face Dalek is actually the best part of it, imo.
I had no clue people didn’t like this story.
A solid 20 Minutes of a Harbo-Essay...looking forward to it
It feels like there's a theatrical quality to the entire episode, that makes some of the more campy elements work.
A lot of the EPS from that era had that feel, unlike more resent EPS that feel more like you are watching a soap opera disguised as Doctor Who!
@@superomegaprimemk2 I mean specifically there's a stage play quality to it. With monologues(Solomon's speach to the Daleks), soliloquies (David Tennant's "They always survive"), and even a song and dance number. The story even ends with a stand-off with the Daleks on stage, and The Doctor and the Dalek-Humans in the audience.
Soloman is such a strong character
I always enjoyed this two-parter. I always thought it had a lot of interesting commentary, and I loved the visuals. Dalek Sec looked weird as shit, but that was kind of the point, and I loved how it managed to make me care about a Dalek. I always wished that we could have seen more of him, because he was a really interesting character and concept. Also, I loved the sweetness of Tallulah and Laszlo's relationship and I thought the episodes were really well paced.
It's perhaps interesting to note that whilst the Dalek Sec Hybrid is more justified towards humanity than dalekdom in design, that mirrors how Sec ends up being more human than dalek by the end.
Something i wanna point out, but i love the scene where the doctor is examining the brain and trying to figure out which planet its from, only to be silent for a moment and say the name ''Skaro'' Realizing his greatest enemy is back.
Unpopular opinion: It’s better then the Girl in the Fireplace.
It's certainly far more accurate in terms of character portrayal. GITF was lovely to watch, but the doctor and companions seemed out-of-character to me, which makes it harder for me to enjoy it.
Note the scene with Solomon trying to reason for peace with the Daleks is similar to the three naive men who approach the Martian War Machines in War of the Worlds (the 1950's movie version) and are disintegrated.
I'm glad you mentioned how this just reuses concepts from Evil
It doesn't do it nearly as much as Parting of the Ways though
When I first saw these episodes I really liked them. I liked the idea of Daleks trying to evolve and survive. Sure, The Evolution of the Daleks was a bit weak, but I really liked Daleks in Manhatten.
Best dalek episode. Love it so much, I love how it not just a big army of daleks. The supporting characters are great aswell
Agreed, I've always felt Daleks are at their best in small numbers, where you can really get to know them and see how devastating a single or small group of Daleks can be. That's why I love this episode and the cult of Skaro in general !
hoards of CGI daleks never did it for me .... they just feel like a generic army in those situations
@@atomicvinylreviews3420 Yeah I agree
'But tell me, Doctor, you're a man of learning, right? Explain this to me. That there is going to be the tallest building in the world. How come they can do that and we've got people starving in the heart of Manhattan?'
This quote was one of the many in the episode that stuck by me all these years because there's so much truth behind it. The great depression ruined so many lives and left people fighting for little amount of food yet they weren't getting help from the government or anyone. They were left defenceless and it's devastating.
The look that Doctor and Martha gives him afterwards, completely speechless even though they are both very smart, shows that even they don't know how to answer that question... it's chilling.
I thought this episode was amazing personally. It's one of my favourites and had some amazing writing in my opinion.
I love how, at first, the Doctor wasn't trusting of human Darlek Sek, but soon realized that Sek wanted peace instead of war, actually chose to activly work WITH his enemy instead of against. I like stories like this. Where two rivals work with each other for similar goals. They don't even have to like each other. They could be forced to work with each other or they both die. That's the kind of stories I enjoy.
“Failing to adapt, even to survive.”
The question must be asked, why bother surviving?
If all you’re doing is delaying oblivion, why not give in?
All Dalek stories from the RTD era are good. This one is no exception. It might be the least good of the 5, but someone has to win the wooden spoon. It doesn’t help that the rest are all action packed epics that are either the finale or tie into the season theme in some way. This is the only Dalek story that is effectively a stand alone monster of the week, so of course it won’t be held in such high esteem when compared to the others.
All of series 3 will always have a special place in my heart given that it was the first series I got on DVD.
The first thing I thought of at 4:45 was "spider pig spider pig does whatever a spider pig does."
Short Answer: Yes.
Long Answer: Kind of.
Loooong Answeeeeer: It's tied with Evil of the Daleks, given they're both underrated for the same reasons.
Evil isn't underrated- you'll always find it in the top ten or top five doctor who missing episodes fans want to watch.
@@fadikhoory5350 And soon we will be able to watch Evil of the Daleks.
And the Ambominable Snowmen.
"You told us to imagine. We imagined your irrelevance."
Damn it Harbo. You made me think I was going crazy.
I’m listening to this with headphones in. The music was faint enough where I thought it way playing where I’m at. Work. I do production. So I thought there was music playing in another room and it took me 10min to figure out that it wasn’t happening. It was the video’s background music.
There were some design failures in these episodes, and a lot of it was played for camp - all of which contributed to a major cringe factor that made me hate the episode for years and years.
But I've been thinking about Daleks in Manhatten myself recently, remembering its better qualities and the surprising depths of the plot. I've been wondering if my older, more laid-back self might view it more kindly.
This review has me thinking I should bump that rewatch further up my list!
Love this two-parter. Side characters are so enjoyable.
My favourite part of the episode is when one of the prisoners the daleks has asks if they are calling him stupid
This was the first dalek episode I ever watched. It was a really good introduction for me and like all RTD dalek episodes, it made the daleks a scary!
Seeing old Time War episodes make me hate how it was milked and practically rendered mute by the end of Smith's run
This would probably not happen for a while, but I would love for you to do a defending the despised on Doctor Who media such as Dimensions in Time and the TV Movie. While they are considered bad, there are some shining moments in them.
Love the idea that the weeping angel of liberty was just stood there watching the whole thing
Incredible characters, experimental and inventive writing and my brother's favourite episode! :D It may be one of THE most underrated Doctor Who episodes EVER :O
This two parter was my introduction to Doctor Who. My uncle had recorded a movie for me off of the Sci-Fi Channel. After the movie, Doctor Who started. As a 9 year old American kid, I had never heard of it before. It blew my mind.
It's not one of my favorite stories of season 3, but it is much better than "42" or "The Lazarus Effect". It was an interesting new take on the Daleks.
can you do an episode on the water monsters (if you get touched by the water you get turned into them i forgot the name) on how scary it is and well done its soo underrated and i never see it spoken about
He's doing the reviews in order so he may get to them by the end of this year
I am only discovering your channel now, and I literally choked on my morning coffee hearing the intro to this video. This is tied for first place in the ranking of best Dalek sagas I've seen (working my way through series 12 of Who now). In fact, if forced to choose, I'd have to give the edge to this one. If you look even just a tiny bit under the hood, there is just so much depth here, and it really showcases the horror, glory and tragedy that are the hallmarks of the Dalek race.
EDIT: For perspective, I should mention that I only ever saw NuWho; I have no history with the classic show at all, and that by the time season 1 started filming, I was already an adult, so Who was not part of my formative years.
Oh god it’s the Lazarus Experiment next week!
As a kid, this was one of the stories that always stuck with me, and is always one that I think of first when it comes to doctor who. I loved Sec, and his transformation into the odd human dalek, as well as the setting of new York. The climb to the top of the Empire state building has always been one of my favorite moments from the show.
Daleks Manhatten two parter is a underated gem for sure, i loved the setting and the american characters where written very well and weren't caricatures like in the other dalek episode "Dalek". and i love the new dalek army , i wish they had have come back to invade earth. actually this episode was the first time i learned of Hooverville. and solomon was a great character. the whole episode oooozes atmosphere. i did like the unintentional call back at the end with the doctor at the top of the empire state buildings tower like in The Idiots Lantern.And ive been to new York and the episode is extra special to me.
oh and i love the line where Tulula is standing on the edge of the Empire state building with her hair blowing in the wind as she looks out at the city of new yorkand she says "If aliens where to invade , no wonder they came here" as in NYC.
Posting this on a bunch of your videos to help metrics:
Thank you so much for making this series. Doctor Who was my favourite tv show as a kid, and was literally the only interest that every member of my family had in common, so it was very special to us growing up. Watching all your deep dives into each of the NuWho episodes has been a very nostalgic experience for me, so thank you thank you xx
Am I imagining things or did you just change the thumbnail? :o
I first saw these episodes when I was like 12 and I LOVED them. Not only was I surprised that people didn't like them, they were some of my favorites. I also may or may not have gotten an instant middle school crush on Andrew Garfield... Nice to see someone really go into all the good aspects of these 2 underrated episodes :)
This was the first episode I watched, and so I'll always have a soft spot for it
I always really liked the designs of the pig slave and hybrid sec as weird body horror
I used to be one of these episodes' biggest defenders. It's still my go-to guilty pleasure who story and there is a classic buried here somewhere but I don't get a lot off the creative decisions made here. I get wanting to put the Daleks in the past so they have low power but why America when most of their guest stars can't do American accents. I understand wanting to give the Daleks henchmen and robomen is a little dull but why pig people? Why not mutants?
That and I can't help but feel this should have been a Dr lite story cause the Daleks are in conflict with each other so we don't really need him and he spends most of the time dealing with pig slaves and playing catch up. I don't actually mind the design of the hybrid, its just the tentacles look really artifical when they move and the line delivery combined with the accent just doesn't work for me. We then have the Daleks pretend to work for Sec and the Doctor when we all know they will betray them so what's the point?
But the episode really goes downhill with the resolution. Lightning that hit the Dr that then brought these human daleks to life gave them time lord DNA which turns them good, right when the Dr needs them to be good? What?
That's said there are moments and scenes, characters and ideas which really work (my favourite being Solomon's death). Overall it's a 5/10 for me
I get it as a guilty pleasure, I like the more campy tone of it, but yeah, I'll never understand why it dismisses its best ideas and focuses on its worst.
I've never considered a Doctor-lite Dalek story properly working, but you're right, it'd be an immediate improvement to remove the Doctor entirely. Allows for a bigger budget too, which this story is dying for, I think it looks awful start till end. Out of character for the stunning Series 3.
@@nightowl8477 Camp and dark IS Doctor Who to me. It reminds me a lot of Revelation of the Daleks (which tbf I also liked). A similar premise that also didn't have a lot for the Dr to do other than getting crushed by a statue with Colin Baker's face on it (subtle, Eric!)
I also think setting it in New York wasn't necessary places like Hooverville likely existed in other countries, it's taxing on budget and for a story set in the past the Daleks are seemingly at the same level of tech they usually are (they're handing out Dalek guns towards the end, do they just carry them with them?!
I love that this ep includes two Daleks sneaking off to shit-talk their boss
Honestly, I never understood the dislike with this one. There's a fair bit of campy silliness to it (duh) but its one of the most interesting takes on the Daleks I can remember
i actually like the pig slaves myself, i've noticed a very odd sort of blossoming trope in modern fiction where mutant human hybrids in brooklyn or london-type settings are pigs for some reason. it plays into dehumanization imagery and i like it in this story personally
The pigmen actually gave me nightmares when I was kid for a couple of years, idk why just something about them scared the hell out of me
Did someone say, “the Hybrid”
The whole Dalek Sek on on a dog leash on stage at the end was really dumb looking.
It just felt like this episode was sooooooo close to being amazing but IMO it fell short
These have always been two of my favorite Doctor Who episodes!
I keep hearing that they're known for being bad/disliked, but I've no idea where that idea comes from... and honestly I am doubtful that's actually true.
Most videos/reviews of these episodes seem to defend them, like this one...
I dunno, maybe I'm just bias because I love Dalek episodes, especially the smaller scale ones like this (or any of the ones that focus on the Cult of Skaro)..
I'm also a huge fan of King Kong, especially the 1933 movie and Peter Jackson's remake, which these episodes strongly reminded me of with all the depression era New York iconography...
anyway great video as usual ! totally agree that these are solid episodes and are really underrated.
I do like the one scene where Daleks are gauging high intelligence and low intelligence within humans
And with Martha being sorted way quicker anyone else probably due to be well clever to begin with and from the modern day too
"Intelligence Scan: low intelligence."
"You callin' me stupid?!"
I'll grant that this episode has some interesting ideas behind it, but I think the execution is piss poor, especially in Evolution of the Darleks. The class division theme was a good idea but the specific ideas presented on this front were shallow. Garfield's 1930's New York accent is terrible. Sec's speaking affectations when he is half-human just does not work for me at all (for me this is even worse than his bad monster design). The pig slaves have a stupid design as well (and whenever the Darleks say "pig slaves" it just sounds even dumber). And this episode has some of the most egregious use of "Darleks have the Doctor dead to rights but decide not to kill him anyway for...reasons" in the entire series.
9:55 Allow me to introduce myself 😎
This should have scared me as a kid.
But boy, did it do something else...
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I remember playing with the figures as a kid. For some reason pig Laszlo and the second doctor traveled together
I thought this episode was okay, not terrible but not amazing and if you gave me the choice of what to watch it wouldn't be my first but certainly not the last. I always thought the Hybrid design was odd but fitting with the crude technology the Daleks are having to work with, if there were in the present or even in the future I envision Dalek Sec's hybrid form would've looked more refined but as a starting form, a version 1.0 if you like working with what they had it was the best that could be made.
The pigslaves I would've just preferred body horror, something more like you can tell two species are now one. I think though this could've been used as a good contrast actually, if the early pig slaves looked really grotesque but by the end you see Lazlo looks pratically like a Pig and then showed the Hybrid but he looks nearly human pratically a perfect combonation of human and dalek it could've shown the Daleks had been working hard on perfecting this before subjecting one of their own to this process.
And to think this was before Andrew Garfield's role as Spiderman (The Amazing Spiderman)