When Doctor Who Lied To You

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  • Опубликовано: 9 июн 2021
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    #DoctorWho #Review
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Комментарии • 374

  • @HarboWholmes
    @HarboWholmes  3 года назад +34

    Make sure to go to squarespace.com/harbowholmes right now and use the code HARBOWHOLMES so you can save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain!

    • @Legendary3Dgamer
      @Legendary3Dgamer 3 года назад +2

      No it wasn’t a bad special

    • @DJTrump6925
      @DJTrump6925 2 года назад +1

      Your theory about the cyberking looking the way it is due to the fact of limited tech is true as if you look into the Doctor Who expanded media cyberkings look drastically different.
      For example the 2016 comic supremacy of the Cybermen.

    • @mattthesilent777RED
      @mattthesilent777RED 8 месяцев назад

      I don't care about your stupid squarespace

  • @mayabailes1653
    @mayabailes1653 3 года назад +447

    It's a blink and you'll miss it moment, but the Cyber King not being remembered is briefly explained in Flesh and Stone as the memories being lost to The Crack.

    • @mayotango1317
      @mayotango1317 2 года назад +39

      @@MaxAutoAttack Well, London was invaded by dinosaurs in the 70s and RTD ignored. In fact, RTD era feel so distant to the classic series. Even Sarah Jane feel so diferent to the original Sarah.

    • @roku144
      @roku144 2 года назад +36

      @@mayotango1317 as a new who fan I gotta say I’d have no idea who Sarah Jane is without their portrayal of her. It may be not your ideal situation but it’s still better than Sarah Jane facing the same issue so many other companions do and fall into obscurity

    • @mayotango1317
      @mayotango1317 2 года назад +12

      @@roku144 For me, the real Sarah Jane was in her Big Finish miniseries.

    • @joefreeman3087
      @joefreeman3087 5 месяцев назад +1

      I always considered it as more than a blink and you'll miss it moment, although for the monster of the story it's in it's an apt description I guess.

  • @DanTheMan2150AD
    @DanTheMan2150AD 3 года назад +315

    Clickbait the episode, but gotta love Jackson Lake and the pure acting talent of David Morrissey

  • @davidwright5750
    @davidwright5750 3 года назад +276

    I like to imagine that the 'no second chances' line in 'The Christmas Invasion' is in there for good reason. As soon as he sees Harriet Jones attack the Sycorax he realises that second chance are important thus his insistence on always offering them in the future and that 'no second chances' was just a regeneration thing.

    • @Fff99901
      @Fff99901 3 года назад +76

      I always just assumed the 'first' chance is him offering them the opportunity to back down and receive his help, but then they don't get a second chance if they turn that down, he'll do whatever is necessary to stop them. That way it's consistent with most of his behaviour throughout his era and even makes more sense in the Christmas Invasion as when he says the line he's literally just given the Sycorax leader the opportunity to live (first chance) but then kills him when he doesn't leave in peace (no second chance). I don't really see any problem with that line and the way he behaves in later episodes.

    • @erikalieben5476
      @erikalieben5476 3 года назад +46

      @@Fff99901 Yes that's exactly what it means. I don't know why people misunderstand that phrase to mean Ten will immediately start killing everyone. People just looking for issues that aren't there purely out of boredom.

    • @altinaykor364
      @altinaykor364 Месяц назад

      @@erikalieben5476 yeah, true

  • @darkarpatron
    @darkarpatron 3 года назад +152

    I personally would've liked to see David Morrissey be an actual incarnation of the Doctor like how he thought he was as Jackson Lake. And while I may be disappointed that such a thing didn't come to pass, I'll always fondly hold the concept in my head of David Morrissey being the actual Doctor, because he was just that good at it for me.

    • @HarboWholmes
      @HarboWholmes  3 года назад +29

      There's always hope for a Big Finish Unbound story!

    • @jackstuhley1745
      @jackstuhley1745 2 месяца назад +2

      The show was able to bring back Capaldi, why not Morrissey?

  • @theosergiou7406
    @theosergiou7406 3 года назад +62

    "Do you know how Jackson Lake could have remembered? Skilshare"

  • @khfanboy666
    @khfanboy666 3 года назад +296

    The scene where Hartigan gets converted has always been so funny to me. But in a way that makes me genuinely adore it for how silly it is.
    There's the "That was designated a lie" line of course, but there's also Hartigan asking "Who will become the Cyberking" and the Cyberleader sloooooowly turning to look at her, just to let HER figure it out.
    Then she's like "Have you no pity?" and the camera does a dramatic zoom in on the Cyberleader's face, just for it to say "...correct!" It's so good. Like, what did she THINK it was going to say?

    • @noneya3635
      @noneya3635 2 года назад +29

      Also, it was nice to see them give a female antagonist the same treatment that male megalomaniac's get in this show. Not something the studio's feel they have the right to do anymore. After RTD's era she would have ended up becoming the sympathetic 11th hour hero villain and saving the day after she realized she just needed to love someone, anyone.

    • @alim.9801
      @alim.9801 2 года назад +16

      @@noneya3635 yeah honestly I feel like they're trying not to be sexist but they swung too far in the other direction 💀💀 we need some more female villains that are just straight up juicy even villains imo

  • @captainstage2009
    @captainstage2009 3 года назад +80

    Yeah, I wonder why Jackson didn’t use squarespace for psychiatric therapy. Oh, right, it’s 1892. My bad!

    • @HarboWholmes
      @HarboWholmes  3 года назад +43

      Imagine being born before modern technology, how embarrassing

    • @captainstage2009
      @captainstage2009 3 года назад +4

      @@HarboWholmes hehe, very true

    • @IronPiedmont
      @IronPiedmont 3 года назад +2

      1854, actually. Still not internet, tho...

    • @jetshot2218
      @jetshot2218 3 года назад +2

      @@IronPiedmont Close, but it was 1851

  • @blobfish5730
    @blobfish5730 3 года назад +68

    I knew you wouldn't be able to resist a woman called Mercy.

  • @lucypreece7581
    @lucypreece7581 3 года назад +83

    I also really love the scene at the end when Jackson stands on the lamp post and tells all the people about the Doctor and he is so giddy and in awe. He may not be the Doctor anymore but Jackson had just a taste of what it feels like to be The Doctor and saw how wonderful and magical they are and then has everyone give the Doctor a round of applause and loads of cheers. That scene always gives me happy feels. Makes me smile. and Jackson calling the TARDIS wonderful nonsense is the best description ever.

  • @bigmansomm7911
    @bigmansomm7911 3 года назад +112

    This special isn’t the best, but Jackson Lake is top-teir, i always wished he was shown in the farewell montage in End of Time (even with him being an admittedly small character)

    • @takebackconstantinople82
      @takebackconstantinople82 3 года назад +4

      Just now I realize(d) this is a missed opportunity

    • @legendary2553
      @legendary2553 Год назад +1

      True, it’s still a guilty pleasure episode i love to watch tho

  • @emmiannon1266
    @emmiannon1266 3 года назад +66

    In season 5 they mention how people always forget the aliens and tie it into the crack in time plotline. the doctor even mentions that nobody remembers the cyberking.
    That is a later retcon though but i like that they mention it

    • @yuwu585
      @yuwu585 2 года назад +11

      Most likely Moffat flexing on RTD by fixing his plotholes (while also creating new ones in the progress)

    • @antonberkbigler5759
      @antonberkbigler5759 Год назад +2

      As time goes on I really really *REALLY* don’t get why Doctor Who seems so set on having no one remember the various alien encounters that happen, it really makes it seem like nothing that happens actually stay a thing that happened. Case in point for me is the destruction of Mondas. In 1986, Mondasian cybermen attempted to siphon the Earth’s energy to revitalize the dying planet of Mondas, but accidentally took too much energy and blew up Mondas in the process. There was a global event that ended up blowing up a planet in *1986,* and no one seems to think aliens exist most of the time.
      I mean, I do understand why they do that, I just don’t like it in this case or agree with the decision. FYI the reason they do this is the same reason that the Doctor will usually hang out on earth in the same year as when the show is currently airing, to keep things close to our reality in terms of society. We don’t think aliens exist, so neither does earth society within Doctor Who. We never had a Cyber King stomp around London in Victorian times, so no one will bring it up in universe either. Load of corporate horse shit if you ask me, do they think things will be less relatable or something if our comparable present doesn’t meticulously align together to the show? I can’t think of why else they would softcore continually ignore established history/continuity like this.

    • @jackstuhley1745
      @jackstuhley1745 2 месяца назад

      @@antonberkbigler5759 because it creates too many loose ends that would radically alter the world to keep track of.

    • @antonberkbigler5759
      @antonberkbigler5759 2 месяца назад

      @@jackstuhley1745 There are more complex franchises out there than Doctor Who. Reread (or maybe read for the first time) my second paragraph.

  • @bluebagha162
    @bluebagha162 3 года назад +19

    I never thought of it as clickbait because of the excellent way they explained the situation and of course the great performance

    • @kaitlynreynolds5192
      @kaitlynreynolds5192 5 месяцев назад

      I think this is a great episode. There's already this vibe at this point in the show that something is coming to an end (meaning the Doctor will be regenerating soon) and having him meet the "Next Doctor" and believe that this is actaully his next incarantion until that plot twist was such a clever idea.

  • @Lucifronz
    @Lucifronz 2 года назад +22

    I agree with the bit about Jackson saving his son. It would have been a much better turn of events. The Doctor's great, but he's not the only person capable of being the hero. That's why he has so many companions backing him up in modern Who.

  • @johannvongenerico9487
    @johannvongenerico9487 3 года назад +48

    I always like when the solution to the cybermen is in humanity and emotion, like Hartigan here overriding the cyber leader and then having her eyes opened by the doctor, the cancelling of the emotional inhibitor chip in the parallel world, or Danny Pink overriding the programming

  • @_kalia
    @_kalia 3 года назад +100

    'Massive radiating domme energy' was not a phrase I expected to hear in this video!
    A surprise for sure, but a welcome one.

    • @quantummidget
      @quantummidget 3 года назад +20

      I learned too much about Harbo's sexual preferences this episode

    • @thecarptain
      @thecarptain 3 года назад +2

      Harbo is growing as a creator and a personality and I am absolutely here for it

    • @patchworkfellow4262
      @patchworkfellow4262 2 года назад +1

      @Tristan Lane true dat, true dat…

  • @Squicx
    @Squicx 3 года назад +10

    I’d take this over any “New Years Day” specials Chibnall writes. I just wanna sit back in front of the TV with family again and enjoy Doctor Who. New Year’s Day, we couldn’t be more apart

  • @Tulf42
    @Tulf42 3 года назад +21

    I think another important reason people may despise this episode, and call it click bait, is due to the episode airing shortly after David Tennant's grand announcement of his departure from the show at the 2008 National Television Awards, which shook everyone up at the time and even gave me a reason to watch BBC News. We also had the memorable regeneration in the series 4 finale where there Doctor stayed in the same incarnation, which meant it was going to take something big to take down the beloved tenth Doctor.

  • @mrgreeny906
    @mrgreeny906 3 года назад +16

    I always remembered the Cybermen attack in the snow at the funeral and how scary it was. I was never scared of the Cybermen normally but that scene used to always really creep me out. Especially when they emerge from the fog with their stomping feet like monstrous creatures.

  • @mathieuleader8601
    @mathieuleader8601 3 года назад +19

    I wish a Christmas speical would use the Celestial Toymaker as its enemy

  • @CyborgCharlotte
    @CyborgCharlotte 3 года назад +30

    10: “No second chances, I’m that sort of a man”
    Fans: “So that was a fucking lie”

    • @dustfinger5312
      @dustfinger5312 3 года назад +3

      Yeah well the doctor lies The doctor lies a lot actually he lies to his companions he lies to his enemies he lies to himself he lies about his age
      I’m 1200 and some thing I think I can’t remember if I’m lying about my age that’s how old I am
      Even river song said what is rule number one the doctor lies

    • @secretbaguette
      @secretbaguette 6 месяцев назад

      Not everything the doctor said ever is a lie just because the doctor lies some of the time. ​@@dustfinger5312

    • @altinaykor364
      @altinaykor364 Месяц назад

      or maybe you can't tell the difference between one chance and second chance. you have problem in reading the number of one and two

  • @breadcat2990
    @breadcat2990 3 года назад +11

    Take a shot everytime HW opens a video with "When Doctor Who was rebooted in 2005" or something like that.

  • @HiperPivociarz
    @HiperPivociarz 3 года назад +19

    "Why does no one remember the robot that came out of the Thames?"
    Torchwood: Let us introduce ourselves. We're Torchwood.
    Jack in Monster Files: So there are accounts of this giant thing that came out of the Thames...

    • @mayotango1317
      @mayotango1317 3 года назад +4

      The cracks in time.

    • @christopherbennett5858
      @christopherbennett5858 3 года назад

      @@mayotango1317 Yeah, that always felt like Moffat pushing the reset button since Davies liked referencing how the public's perception of events was. Especially with the Cybermen and Dalek stories.
      I mean, this could have been interesting as a way of having characters who feel like they've lived in the Whoniverse but I can see why they want companions to reflect normal humans.

    • @mayotango1317
      @mayotango1317 3 года назад +1

      @@christopherbennett5858 Davis did the same with the classic series. I never feel that his London is the same that the Yetis in Underground or dinosaurs in the 70s.

    • @christopherbennett5858
      @christopherbennett5858 3 года назад

      @@mayotango1317 Considering his first few seasons had the main companion living in a council estate, I can see why that may be different from the Pertwee and Baker eras.
      Davies definitely took a lot of drama cues from Kitchen SInk dramas like Eastenders and a lot of the focus is more on characters than location, aside from Cardiff jabs.

  • @onofftopic5275
    @onofftopic5275 3 года назад +28

    You forgot to mention the cringe worthy cyber dogs. Those were just plain bad.

  • @Valtharr
    @Valtharr 3 года назад +3

    I think there's an 11th Doctor episode where a throwaway line handwaves nobody remembering the giant mech showing up in Victorian London

  • @Venemofthe888
    @Venemofthe888 3 года назад +14

    I do like these specials because it shows the morale of the doctor getting darker and darker over these episodes along with the wedding of sarah jane two parter. Like in this christmas episode he seems to be happy masking his sadness over losing Donna recently. Its kinda like a distraction not wanting to think about what happened before the next episodes change his demeanour.
    Something i do miss during the Davies era was the connectivity of it all like these specials and sarah jane adventures tye in very well with each other even with the trickster referencing the future with 'the gate is waiting for you' in the end of time. Its shown here as well talking about Doomsday and that it still has effects long after. The cyber king is even referenced with Matt Smith as the doctor as well.
    I think this episode honestly is just ok and tbh just a bit of fun like something a lot of the christmas episodes have (mostly). Its not the best christmas episode but its definitely not the worst either. Everyone is solid in this and good jokes like the cybermen having their feet on silent.

  • @t.j.armendariz354
    @t.j.armendariz354 Год назад +7

    I think the scream is her reaction of horror as she realizes everything, her passion, and knowledge of the destruction and capacity for destruction, and shows that she was in some capacity under the cybermen’s spell (hypnosis or whatever) for a long time and now she is finally seeing clearly

  • @davidcrewe4646
    @davidcrewe4646 3 года назад +10

    25:18 - the 11th Doctor says in series 5 that’s the cracks caused people to forget the cyber king. (Possibility Time of Angles?)

  • @jacobgame2757
    @jacobgame2757 2 года назад +14

    Its a shame that David Morrissey's Doctor and Toby Jones' Dream Lord are both only for 1 episode. They both are such perfect characters that would have been great to see more of them. Although perhaps that is why they are so great. They are perfect characters that haven't got diluted because they need to keep returning or fill multiple episodes

  • @mrviggs1493
    @mrviggs1493 3 года назад +10

    Imagine if in Series 13, the Ruth Doctor turns out to be Jackson Lake

  • @Dray1
    @Dray1 3 года назад +11

    21:30 your points here are exactly why the short trip Forever Fallen is so good. Someone who actually accepted the Doctor's help

  • @DSS712
    @DSS712 3 года назад +5

    This was the second episode of Doctor Who I ever watched and it was MEGA confusing for me (in a fun way.) The first episode I saw was Vincent and the Doctor with Matt Smith. I just saw it by chance and knew nothing about the show. I liked the episode and I'm like "this was cool I want to check out more of this show." I guess this Christmas special was available for some reason that I don't remember, but I turned it on. Now there was a different guy (David Tenant) saying he was the doctor, and an additional character who is also claiming to be the doctor. Needless to say I was scratching my head and I needed to pause and do a good ten minutes of googling before I realized I wasn't losing my mind. Big fan of the show ever since :)

  • @OverlyPositiveFanboy
    @OverlyPositiveFanboy 2 года назад +51

    Rosita is basically a hodge-podge of all of Davies' companions. She has a name similar to Rose, the same race as Martha, and the mouth of Donna.

  • @ig_4220
    @ig_4220 3 года назад +15

    25:19 Didn't that get explained by a throwaway line with the actual next Doctor? Whole event got retconned away by the cracks along with the Dalek invasion in Stolen Earth

    • @lexezlao
      @lexezlao 3 года назад +4

      yeah but that was stupid

    • @mayotango1317
      @mayotango1317 3 года назад +3

      No. A gigant robot in victorian london is stupid.

    • @lexezlao
      @lexezlao 3 года назад +1

      @@mayotango1317 not AS stupid

    • @deltahalo241
      @deltahalo241 3 года назад +2

      @@lexezlao I quite like the cracks in time, it's a nice way to play with the wibbly wobbly nature of time in a main series arc, and it's much better than, for instance, the revival of the Master for the final Series 4 special.

    • @lexezlao
      @lexezlao 3 года назад

      @@deltahalo241 I like the cracks, but I don't like the univers reboot and erasure thing

  • @HedeccaTamer
    @HedeccaTamer 3 года назад +7

    The structure of "action scene - exposition scene - action scene - character scene" is something I really miss
    Chibnall just does "exposition scene - exposition scene - character sentence - exposition scene"

    • @BH-98
      @BH-98 3 года назад +5

      "Character time is over. Time for plot!"

  • @theevildalek5425
    @theevildalek5425 3 года назад +71

    I feel like this story would be much more loved if the title wasn’t so ‘clickbait-y.’ Maybe if they called it ‘The Other Doctor’ or ‘The Doctor Who Never Was’ it would of been much more liked

    • @Sk8rToon
      @Sk8rToon 3 года назад +15

      Having joined the fandom during Smith’s run I never felt this episode was clickbait-y. But then I wasn’t part of the series when this came out & people were wondering who the next doctor would be. I already knew.

    • @superbuuinyourrecommended
      @superbuuinyourrecommended 3 года назад +4

      "The New Doctor" is the perfect balance imo

    • @greenivy713
      @greenivy713 2 года назад +2

      Fun Fact: In Germany they named the special 'The other Doctor' :D

  • @unorthodoxbox
    @unorthodoxbox 3 года назад +9

    I know this'll sound a bit weird but I like seeing the brain on display on the cyber leader. It reminds you this was once a person. Also to me being a leader it's like showing off how much better you are than the common cybermen cause you get to show off your brain. On a weird side note, I'm concerned of the lack of any liquid not surrounding the brain to protect it from any potential damage.

  • @patchworkfellow4262
    @patchworkfellow4262 3 года назад +11

    No-one seems to be talking about how *superb* Dervla Kirwan was in this episode? As in, this lady is a QUEEN in my eyes now!

    • @patchworkfellow4262
      @patchworkfellow4262 3 года назад +3

      Also, I personally don’t think Hartigan was “screaming in fear” in her final scene. Maybe the first bit was - y’know, the normal reactionary fear of anyone who’d find themselves in such a situation - but, look at her face at 22:30; she’s _angry_ as she screams at them. Her _rage_ at being betrayed and forced into conversion was what destroyed the Cyberking, not fear.
      Well, that’s my opinion. Just sayin’…

    • @BH-98
      @BH-98 3 года назад +2

      *Dervla Kirwan, & yes she was fantastic.

    • @patchworkfellow4262
      @patchworkfellow4262 3 года назад

      @@BH-98 ah, thanks!

  • @LeadingMole058
    @LeadingMole058 3 года назад +10

    Funnily enough I watched this episode last night and it still stands among my favourite Christmas specials.

  • @KrisFrost4359
    @KrisFrost4359 3 года назад +6

    The one thing that always confused me about the episode was how Miss Hartigan screams so hard she explodes along with everyone around her when the Doctor damaged her connection to the Cyberking. Just always looked so silly to me.

    • @bananatiergod
      @bananatiergod 3 месяца назад +1

      It makes a pinch of sense, the Doctor basically forced her to accept that she turned into the monster society deemed her as and it broke her mind completely

  • @ramaigis
    @ramaigis 2 года назад +5

    This is my first ever episode of doctor who (and the only episode available legally in my country) and it's always a joy to revisit how this episode made me fell in love with Doctor Who

  • @nightowl8477
    @nightowl8477 3 года назад +25

    It's one of the most forgettable Tennant stories _ever,_ with some pretty mediocre ideas propping it up.
    All the same, it is my favourite of the Tennant Christmas episodes. It just has this uncanny charm, it's like no other story of the era. Whilst this is mainly a bad thing (given how consistently good the era is), it makes The Next Doctor feel new on the rare occasion I watch it. I think it's Jackson Lake that keeps me going, wish there has been _less_ of Cyber-centroc focus if anything!

  • @calumgardner6936
    @calumgardner6936 3 года назад +4

    25:06-25:40 Errr you do remember that bit in Flesh & Stone where The Doctor explains how the cracks literally unwrite time by saying “The Cyberking! A giant Cyberman walks over Victorian London and no one remembers it!” right? 😂💁🏻‍♂️

  • @StarWyvernHPB
    @StarWyvernHPB 3 года назад +12

    I know it was a transition to the sponsor, but how the hell is Jackson lake going to view, let alone make a website?
    Unless.... Squarespace has compiled so much internet data that they've learned how to time travel.

  • @mikenolan73
    @mikenolan73 3 года назад +3

    Completely agree about giving Jackson his "hero" moment in the finale. Even when I saw the episode originally I thought it would have shown how jackson had regained his courage but more importantly it would have re-affirmed his 'true' identity as jackson and not the Doctor.

  • @toastierebellion2102
    @toastierebellion2102 3 года назад +7

    Im surprised harbo dislikes this special, personally its one of my favourites and id love to see david morissey actually become the doctor one day

  • @craytherlaygaming2852
    @craytherlaygaming2852 3 года назад +7

    When despite having no emotions... the Cybermen are the sassiest and roast capable Monsters in doctor who.
    Hey, at least you know that they are made using human parts because of it

  • @DaringNote62
    @DaringNote62 3 года назад +6

    I kind of want a Jackson Lake Big Finish spin off now

  • @NoahIsCanned
    @NoahIsCanned 3 года назад +47

    I personally think that this special, while not the best, is still is a pretty decent episode. There is some things that make this episode *EH* but overall, I wouldn’t complain watching it.

  • @apanapandottir205
    @apanapandottir205 3 года назад +5

    David Morrissey's performance makes the entire episode. His speech at the end always gets to me.

  • @rangerzickle3350
    @rangerzickle3350 Год назад +2

    I actually have a story concept similar to this one where someone is posing as the doctor, but they actively know they are doing it. The Doctor then as to confront the con artist and clear their name since the con artist is setting up real threats that are putting real people in danger and is posing as the doctor saving these people for attention and popularity.

  • @astra3310
    @astra3310 3 года назад +13

    Personally I like this episode. It’s a fun little break from the seriousness and actually quite funny and always enjoyable

  • @phantomsidious2934
    @phantomsidious2934 3 года назад +8

    I really like this episode, David Morrissey did a great job, and in my opinion he would have been a great doctor

  • @ff10fire666
    @ff10fire666 3 года назад +12

    I admit, this is properly my least favourite Christmas special or one of them (Christmas Carol is still my favourite) but until the ending with the giant walking cyberman, it was a fantastic special and David Morrissey did a fantastic job as Jackson Lake

  • @orla8319
    @orla8319 3 года назад +22

    "I'm not sure I like how [Miss Hartigan] ends up during the climax." Bc she didn't end up as ur gf by the sounds of it, king

  • @ThatWolfFromHyruleGaming
    @ThatWolfFromHyruleGaming Год назад +2

    This will always be my favorite exchange in the episode:
    Fake Doctor: “This may be hard to believe Mr. Smith, but they are creatures from another world”
    10: “Really? *beat* Wow…”

  • @jamesstewart7736
    @jamesstewart7736 6 месяцев назад +1

    Does anyone remember the 90s time travel sit com "Goodnight Sweetheart" ? I recently discovered that the woman who plays Phoebe is Miss Hartigan. Also when Gary Sparrow (yes main character surname is Sparrow) is getting kitted put with 1940s clobber in 1993 the outfit really resembles tens outfit. Theres even a joke about him wearing trainers. Its all so meta but probably not intentionall. Maybe?

  • @wisepop1
    @wisepop1 2 года назад +1

    I always loved the visuals in the funeral of this episode with the white snow, Victorian men in black and then she turns up in red :D

  • @acotscohotdog
    @acotscohotdog 3 года назад +6

    Oh god, I'd literally erased this from my memory...

  • @PathsUnwritten
    @PathsUnwritten 3 года назад +4

    Odd that in-universe, the Doctor would be trying to figure out which incarnation it could be, considering he knows full-well he only has 1 regeneration left. Prior to Trenzalore/Timeless Child. Although I know this was not yet established offscreen.

    • @HarboWholmes
      @HarboWholmes  3 года назад +4

      10 might not have considered the Metacrisis as a full regeneration yet, it probably took until 11 came along with a new personality for The Doctor to consider it a proper regeneration

  • @Nexus-11
    @Nexus-11 5 месяцев назад +3

    "All style, no substance" describes 90% of Doctor Who. Not that I'm complaining.

  • @user-jn4sw3iw4h
    @user-jn4sw3iw4h 3 года назад +3

    Regarding the "no second chances"-line......
    It was the line itself that was wrong, not the consistency of the underlying idea.
    Like the origins of the line, he grants everyone a chance to stop (effectively a second chance), but no-one a second chance to stop:
    refusing his offer, or taking and betraying it, is a 'deserved cause of death'
    The 'more accurate', "no third chances, I'm that sort of a man" just isn't that catchy of a line.

  • @ishaandw
    @ishaandw 3 года назад +3

    Just watched Fury from the Deep and the sonic screwdriver does in fact work on screws.

  • @aionicthunder
    @aionicthunder 3 года назад +2

    This episode happens to have the earliest memory of Doctor Who I ever had. It was just Jackson Lake’s TARDIS. I remembered him stating its name, but I don’t think I realised at the time that TARDIS doesn’t stand for that

  • @Brixxter
    @Brixxter 2 года назад +3

    I really liked this episode. The finale with the giant Cyberking was a bit over the top for my taste but the idea of there being a human doctor worked really well for me, I found it way more satisfying and interesting than an actual encounter with the next doctor. Sure, the viewers got kind of tricked but in my opinion it was a really pleasant surprise.

  • @class87fan54
    @class87fan54 3 года назад +4

    This special is a bit of a guilty pleasure of mine. True, it's certainly not the best Christmas special, but it's not the worst either. The stand outs are David Morrissey and Dervla Kirwan's performances. Regarding the Cyber-king, my theory is that RTD put in there, because he knew that Moffat was planning to completely throw away all of the RTD-era's world building with the cracks in time arc, so RTD decided to heck with it and put the Cyber-king in this episode, knowing that Moffat was gonna retcon it.

    • @mayotango1317
      @mayotango1317 3 года назад +3

      No, it is the opposite. RTD did it because it was fun, like farts or a giant claw on Planet of the Ood. Moffat only corrected that nonsense

    • @altinaykor364
      @altinaykor364 Месяц назад

      @@mayotango1317 two lines of nonsense words

    • @mayotango1317
      @mayotango1317 Месяц назад

      @@altinaykor364 Bad Wolf?

  • @mazzucac
    @mazzucac 3 года назад +7

    If you like continuity like this, then you should check out Stargate. That’s a show that takes continuity and call backs to a whole new level.

  • @adamharvey907
    @adamharvey907 3 года назад +3

    i always took no-one remembering the mech as a consequence of the time cracks from season 5 as they mention it when referring to those cracks

  • @ghostface_tardis
    @ghostface_tardis 3 года назад +4

    I remember in 2013 when I came home from school like just a new fan of Doctor who and I went into my room and there was Doctor Who Magzine, a red Dalek figure from series 5 and the dvd of the next doctor. And wow, I incredibly loved watching this episode multiple times. Like I know it isn’t the best and isn’t that good but I just have to love it cause it was my first dvd

    • @peterchu5609
      @peterchu5609 3 года назад

      2013 was when I became a Whovian too. Although I started with Doctor Who Adventures and the first dvd was of Series 2. It took until 2014 that I started watching it live.

    • @ghostface_tardis
      @ghostface_tardis 3 года назад

      @@peterchu5609 I remember series 7b heavily cause I had seen doctor who before but bells of Saint John was the episode I was determined to watch etc. Nice 👍

  • @utherteasdale933
    @utherteasdale933 3 года назад +3

    The next doctor is one of my favourite doctor who episodes I rewatched it last night. I love the interactions between the doctor and both Jackson Lake’s. I wasn’t watching doctor who at the time so it wasn’t click bait for me as I knew that Tennant regenerated in The End of Time.

  • @cardinalhamneggs5253
    @cardinalhamneggs5253 6 месяцев назад +1

    My headcanon is that Jackson went on to become the human Dr. Who from the Peter Cushing _Dalek_ movies, constructing his own TARDIS-like time machine from scavenged tech left behind by the Cybermen.

  • @TFA120
    @TFA120 2 года назад +2

    After watching The Walking Dead the past few weeks, it's hard to see David Morrissey as the Doctor after seeing him decapitate one of my favourite characters from the show.

  • @jesterofspades3903
    @jesterofspades3903 Год назад +2

    I really liked this episode. Honestly it's one of my favourites the bronze primitive cyberman looked awesome and Jackson lake was a great character. growing up this was definitely my favourite episode.

  • @Josh-ze6xo
    @Josh-ze6xo 3 года назад +15

    I remember watching this but I somehow completely forgot about the mechagodzilla cyberman

    • @aprilverian1262
      @aprilverian1262 3 года назад +1

      I watched it fairly recently and also forgot about it!

  • @UltimateTanMan
    @UltimateTanMan 6 месяцев назад +1

    This was my first Doctor Who episode ever. I was confused most of the runtime, but it was fun enough so I stuck around for the last 12 years lol

  • @TheSmart-CasualGamer
    @TheSmart-CasualGamer 3 года назад +4

    I've never been able to get into this episode either. I loved the bits with the Cybermen stomping around doing Cyberman things, I think the Cybershades and Cyberking (Although the fact that they look steampunk in other appearances misses the point that the Cybermen were just using what they had to hand ) are both great ideas and Jackson Lake's realization that he has someone else's memories, it's a very sad moment. It also looks great and is shot and designed beautifully.
    But I've never liked the the episode as a whole, and my only real reason is that I've never liked the idea of the Doctor pretending to be someone else around someone who believes he's the Doctor.
    Also, what's up with the Cybermen's voices in this one? They sound very different to how they did from Rise of the Cybermen to Doomsday.

  • @AiRsTrIkExXzZ
    @AiRsTrIkExXzZ Год назад +1

    I just realised that this episode is similar to eve of the daleks but not in its plot. Both are episodes that happen because of what happened in the previous episode(s) and both feature one of the main baddies. They’re also the first special in the list of specials for the final part of each doctor’s era

  • @bicko_07
    @bicko_07 3 года назад +4

    I don’t think this is that bad. It works as a fun romp to watch with your family on Christmas Day

  • @syweb2
    @syweb2 Год назад

    This is the first time I've ever heard that this is a Christmas special.
    20:15 There is a trio of more modern-looking Cyberkings in one of the Doctor Who comics, Supremacy of the Cybermen. A scaled-down"proper" Cyberking also appears in Lego Dimensions, along with a cameo of the one from The Next Doctor.

  • @HiperPivociarz
    @HiperPivociarz 3 года назад +37

    Yeesh, imagine a JK Rowling episode penned by Garreth Roberts. The darkest timeline.

  • @hgwells1899
    @hgwells1899 3 года назад +1

    No one remembers the cybermen from The Invasion, Yeti's in the underground, literal Dinosaurs in London again, or that time the Loch Ness Monster showed up at Parliament. But no one cites those incidents because parrots are going cheap these days

  • @tylermarble1561
    @tylermarble1561 Год назад

    When the Doctor says no second chances, I like to think it was the last of his anger from the 9th doctor

  • @LuckyDucky1122
    @LuckyDucky1122 3 года назад +1

    21:00 to be fair that was when he was fresh of the memories of the 9nth doctor which was full of rage

  • @TheThezenith
    @TheThezenith Год назад +2

    Jackson Lake and Hartigan, I feel could of been played as human versions of the Doctor and the Master, two brilliant geniuses pitted against each other. I feel like some kind of history between the two couldve really added to this episode

  • @toast99bubbles
    @toast99bubbles 3 года назад +2

    Nice to see this video. I've been looking forward to this one. Did you end up looking into that not fully completed version I sent you? It was pretty much the same, aside from the audio being off and the visuals not complete.

    • @HarboWholmes
      @HarboWholmes  3 года назад +3

      I did! It was very interesting to see. I'll never know how they got those grey shapes into landscapes, baffles me

    • @toast99bubbles
      @toast99bubbles 3 года назад +1

      @@HarboWholmes The people who do that stuff are wizards. Pretty much anyone who does any kind of video editing is a wizard in my eyes (which includes you).

  • @samitdavid995
    @samitdavid995 3 года назад +1

    The reason nobody remembers the cyberking was referenced by the 11th doctor in one of his episodes, had something to do with the cracks in time I believe

  • @Squicx
    @Squicx 3 года назад +1

    This was the first episode to confirm the 8th Doctor was indeed canon

  • @bobdobalina2931
    @bobdobalina2931 Год назад +1

    It's such a shame that David Morrissey wasn't a future incarnation of The Doctor - the 13th Incarnation.

  • @TheWolfXCIX
    @TheWolfXCIX 3 года назад +1

    This is probably my favourite Christmas special, Morrissey is fantastic and the Cybermen were well used (although the big boi at the end is a bit OTT)

  • @SirCaIIum
    @SirCaIIum 3 года назад +2

    Harbo certainly seems to enjoy being commanded by Ms Harrigan 🤔 awesome video as always btw

  • @ciaran4868
    @ciaran4868 3 года назад +2

    I'm praying that the Doctor in 'The Next Doctor' won't be dragged into the awful Timeless Child Storyline.

  • @benlawrence309
    @benlawrence309 3 года назад +8

    Personal opinion here, I would have loved to have seen the Cybermen in a Victorian / steampunk aesthetic. To convey the technical regress of the Cybermen technology.

  • @lucypreece7581
    @lucypreece7581 3 года назад +1

    Yes hi. late reply. been at work. double shift. very tired. I love how you talked about this episode being linked to a previous one and I love how this episode is brought up in another story in Smith's first season. it shows the constant interconnected world of Doctor Who.

  • @jamiemccreath3959
    @jamiemccreath3959 3 года назад +3

    Great video as always, although I really disagree on how the moment of gratitude relates to the Doctor's character. He seems pleasantly surprised, and in my opinion the moment just shows how he never expects to be thanked, making the scene much more of a support to the "without reward" idea than an opposition. The Doctor's always had a massive ego despite this selflessness and I don't think this episode nor the Waters of Mars really changes that.
    In my opinion the Time Lord Victorious was never really about ego or glory. The disagreement between the Doctor and the Time Lords around the idea of fighting evil and changing history has been at the core of Doctor Who pretty much as long as the Time Lords themselves. What makes the Time Lord Victorious concept so interesting is that it's not a shift of values; it's an extension of what the Doctor already stands for. He doesn't act selfishly in the Waters of Mars so much as he finally puts his foot down after being tormented by the cruelty of time for so long.

  • @brinnrobinson17
    @brinnrobinson17 Год назад

    In Lego Dimensions the Cyber King is just a Giant version of the Cybermen from Nightmare in Silver as the first boss in the level A Dalektable Adventure

  • @jacobdavies9033
    @jacobdavies9033 Год назад

    One thing that I wished had come to fruition was Russell's idea to have a novel set between Jackson entering and exiting the TARDIS where Jackson goes on a full on adventure in the TARDIS. Prime Big Finish Fodder I think

  • @a5alzahra
    @a5alzahra 3 года назад +4

    I love this episode so much! Love Jackson Lake and honestly he deserves to come back in later episodes

  • @thomasjohnson8391
    @thomasjohnson8391 3 года назад +5

    When will you do the Sarah Jane adventures series review?

  • @JoelkPoelk
    @JoelkPoelk 3 года назад +1

    I'm pretty sure this (along with the other invasions) is mentioned in season 5, that they were retconned to have never happened or something.

  • @seannelson8368
    @seannelson8368 Год назад +1

    I thought that if a video had an internal paid promotion, that other ads would not be shown guess RUclips Has to make double ad money

    • @daiyahigashikata
      @daiyahigashikata Год назад

      youtube makes no money from his promotion and he makes very little money, if any at all, from the ads run on his videos. you can safely use an adblocker here.