Why Ncuti Gatwa Deserves Better - Doctor Who: The Giggle (2023) - REVIEW
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- Опубликовано: 11 янв 2024
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I think the puppet show from the toy maker’s point was to show Donna what happened to many companions after her - I.e. Dying. It would’ve been a bit naff for him to go ‘Zis is Graham O’Brien. He was scared about his cancer coming back, and ze doctor fobbed him off’.
‘I was still socially awkward’
‘Well that’s alright then!’
There’s no reason for 13’s companions to be there imo.
Yh none of 13s companions died
lol, but it does make the last set of companions seem unimportant (I guess they are?)
I think the Toymaker could easily have included a Yaz puppet as the companion who fell in love with the Doctor but was abandoned broken hearted... She's still alive, says the Doctor, she's safe. Well that's all right then! A coda at the end of the episode with the 14th Doctor visiting Yaz would have really helped, even if we don't find out what happens next and it's left to the imagination. How does she react when she realizes who this man at her door is? Does she look disappointed? Delighted? Confused? Angry? Could have been a nice ending for 14.
@@richards2936 but rose also fell in love with him? So did Martha? I don’t think Yaz is unique in that respect - especially bc it came genuinely out of nowhere.
I also don’t really see ‘dead’ and ‘a bit gutted I said no’ as all that comparable. I didn’t really
feel her being all that abandoned or heartbroken either - she seemed fine when she was with the other companions at the end.
All that said, I’m not trying to be rude to you, by the way. I just don’t think the character ground work is there at all for Yaz or 13. To me, they’re barely characters.
When they were together, it didn’t help that I rarely got the impression she even liked having Yaz around. If 14 was to have an ending, it makes far more sense to me for it to be with Donna - or a face connected to 10.
@@lewgallagher463for me it never read as yaz fell in love with the doctor herself but more of falling in love with the wonders that the doctor could show her as opposed to rose and Martha cause there is no real evidence of yaz being in love with the doctor until the end of flux when she has supposedly been watching the recording of the doctor over and over again and that’s kinda late to introduce an element like that
I don't think the point Donna's making in The Giggle is that the *14th* Doctor's running on empty, but that the Doctor as a whole (as it were) has been doing so for a long time. And arguably that fits in with continuity - ever since they were given a new regeneration cycle in The Time of the Doctor, they've technically been living past the end of their natural life. You could even argue that it's reflected in the two incarnations since: 12 all but lost the ability to relate to people, including (especially?) the goodies, and 13 was pretty much always playing catch-up to the baddies. So Donna's suggestion that they regenerated back into an old face to alert themselves to the fact that they'd worn everything else out kind of holds, if you ask me.
"Why waste Bonnie Langford's time and talent?"
...Tradition?
(Mel becomes a well-rounded, well defined and nuanced character in future episodes)
Me: Look at what they took from us...
Isn't the whole character of the Doctor based around the fact that he can't settle down or be compatible with ordinary human day to day life?
Yep. Basically.
I mean 13's companions are still alive so there is no reason for the toymaker to use them to guilt trip the doctor. He uses Amy Clara and bill all who have 'died' from travelling with the doctor.
Grace 😅
@@B-MC oh damn it how'd I forget grace, the best doctor who companion we never had.
@@sortascouseace I agree and she probably doesn't 'count' as a companion but they could have mentioned her... 😆
I'm glad you brought in the Graham Norton clip. I was in the crowd and it was even more awkward on the studio floor. The amount of angry responses I got saying 'it wasn't a problem, you over-exaggerated' once it had aired was infuriating
I'm sure Norton brought it up in jest and thought he could squeeze a funny conversation out of it, but the vibe in the room kinda went sideways and everyone in those seats looks uncomfortable or baffled, or both. I wonder what RTD thought when he watched this.
That whole episode was kind of weird and off-kilter - especially the bit where Jamie Dornan or Jack Lowden (I can't recall which of the two) started talking about real men needing to be given a good beating or give someone a good beating or whatever it was...
Honestly, I think that the idea of 14 teaming up with 15 to defeat The Toymaker before settling down with Donna could easily have been done without the bigeneration. The Toymaker could have just summoned a Post-Regenerative 15 and his Tardis to play the final game, he then gets his new clothes with the help of 14, Donna, Shirley, and Mel, and then he takes off in his Tardis before telling 14 he needs to settle down in order to become him, and the episode can end the same way with 14 having dinner with The Nobles in the garden and 15 taking off for further adventures. See, plain and easy. All possible without the bigeneration. What's worse is that it leaves a lot of questions unanswered. Is The Doctor 2 separate entities now? Can 14 still regenerate and will there be 2 15th Doctors? Hopefully we'll find out soon when the time comes.
He says rehab out of order. So sometime in the future I think they are going to merge back together.
idk. I'd have found a 15th doctor from the future showing up to help fight the Toymaker, then getting back in the Tardis and leaving, with the actual regeneration taking place off-screen in some adventure we never actually hear about to be incredibly disappointing, and an even more peculiar way to be introduced to our new main doctor.
@@paulhammond6978 We could end with a montage of 14 living with The Nobles till they grow old, and we can show the start of 14 regenerating at the end once he decides he's ready to move on
Aa
Honestly this episode just made me sick of David Tennant's Doctor. 10th gets to have his cake and eat it. Again. The way it's done, it doesn't even feel like it's The Doctor that got the therapy, only 10th, only he gets to have the special thing, he gets to have two numbered incarnations, he gets to have a TARDIS for himself, he gets to run out of therapy to do whatever when he is supposed to stay put, he gets to exist independent of all the other Doctors after the end of his run, he gets to live forever. Like are you kidding me.
Two TARDISes actually, cause alternative universe 10 also got one he just had to grow it.
Agreed!!! I am sick of Tennant!!!
I came up with a better way the Toymaker could have been defeated.
Keep the moment where the Toymaker is throwing those balls at 14 but they are green this time. Jump forward to the final game, the Toymaker pulls out a red ball and they start playing catch. Towards the end of the montage, 14 and 15 both wind up and try to put the Toymaker off, 15 throws the ball and the Toymaker catches it on the edge of the helipad, barely. He gets up and starts talking about how this game could go on forever, etc. 15 then tells him he lost, Toymaker asks what he means and the two Doctors look down at the floor next to the Toymaker. A red ball rolls and stops at his feet. The Toymaker is holding a green ball. The one 14 pocketed earlier
That would have been cheating, which would invalidate the game. The Toymaker is bound only by the rules of the game, therefore so are the other players.
Yeah, can't fault you. That would've been more satisfying.
@@MattafProductionsdidn’t the first doctor cheat by imitating his voice though
@@MattafProductions how is that cheating? why would there be a rule against throwing a random different ball mid game? (tbf i dont understand the concept of catch as a competitive game in the first place. like, just throw it behind you or something... how tf they gonna catch that)
Maybe. There's bending rules and breaking rules. I think it works better than what we had though. I like the idea of catch being a resolution to The Toymaker's game, but it's not done cleverly. I want some type of clever Doctor trick.@@MattafProductions
I especially would like some concept of this where the clothes splitting between the bigenerated Doctors comes into play in this. That way the idea of two Doctors at play really works. One has an extra ball in their pocket and gets to throw again. The Toymaker defeated by his own arrogance once again.
10:36 “There’s the Prime Minister expressing open contempt for humanity, so same as usual.”
Truer and funnier words have never been spoken. I can just see the right wing reactionary’s and conservative viewers losing their minds over that scene. Well done.😂
Three thoughts:
1) Regeneration is, I think, an important part of the show because it serves as a healthy introduction to the concept of life continuing after death for an audience that is, at least in part, made up of kids. I don't care about bigeneration from a lore perspective, because Doctor Who's canon is so loose that even cornerstones of the show's universe regularly change depending on what the story needs, but it seriously muddles what I think is a very valuable metaphor,
2) It's kind of messed up that _only_ Tennant gets to leave duplicates of himself behind. The finality of regeneration bows to fan popularity. Every other Doctor is done once their tenure is over, barring anniversary specials, but RTD just can't seem to let go of Ten, and
3) I think it could've been more interesting if two Doctors teaming up to defeat the Toymaker was possible because it was a reverse multi-Doctor special - a Doctor we haven't seen yet crossing his own timeline to deal with a universal threat and safeguarding his own existence in the process. You know you're killing off Tennant going in, Tennant already had a farewell, so if you wanted to try that, this would have been the best opportunity to have a Doctor from the show's future travel back to its present.
I see what you mean. As for your second point though, we've already established that the Baker's doctor will exist again (the curator). There's also been other instances of retro-regeneration (my favorite term for it). Not to mention the 1st doctor coming back every other week lol
So well said @Talisguy I completely agree.
_1) Regeneration is, I think, an important part of the show because it serves as a healthy introduction to the concept of life continuing after death for an audience that is, at least in part, made up of kids._
I've never seen regeneration as a metaphor for the concept of life continuing after death and even if it is, I don't see any merits in confronting children with this concept in such kind of un-reflected form. This doesn't make much sense to me, sorry.
_2) It's kind of messed up that only Tennant gets to leave duplicates of himself behind._
In the commentary to this episode on BBC iPlayer Russel T Davies states that his vision is that _every_ Doctor had such a bi-regeneration at some point in the past so we've got a kind of Multi-Whoniverse of Doctors. I don't recall his exact wording, but this was pretty much his message.
I don't see how this could be possibly realised without messing up the timelines completely into randomness, but that's still to be seen when and if this idea comes to the screen. Maybe it's just a unbaked thought of RTD's, maybe he has something specific in mind for the next season, we shall see.
As to your third point, I totally agree with you. But they _wanted_ this separation of #14 to give him this pseudo-ending to get rid of the ballast of the past Doctors for a fresh start of #15. I kind of like that idea but found the execution bumpy.
Agreed on all points, @Talisguy -- you really articulated what bothered me so much about the whole thing!
Except that Russell has already said that bigeneration went back through the Doctor's entire timeline, and ALL of the Doctors have now retroactively bigenerated. That's his explanation for their older appearances in the Tales From the TARDIS shorts.
Whilst I was disappointed by the costume changing at the end of The Power of The Doctor, I totally understood RTDs out of universe reasoning for this, that it could potentially be weaponised against tabloids.
Having Ncuti Gatwa make his first appearance through a bi-generation with no trousers on really undercuts this reasoning imo.
Don't run a show based on what tabloids are going to say though.
I thought that too as well with having Tennant playing the Doctor again.
RTD previously didn’t shy away from portraying queer content so I was so disappointed that the clothes changed (also, I really wanted to see Ncuti with Thirteen‘s clothes!)
As for the bi-Generation, I can see how this concept could be great but giving 14 a TARDIS is too much.
But the story really needed to be split into two.
(That was also my criticism about some of Chibnall‘s episodes like Orphan 55 or Fugitive of the Doctor: great ideas, great cast but too little time for both to shine!)
@@dirrdevilexactly and I though that RTD previously didn’t care. It was not as obvious without the internet as it is now but during s1 there was a huge backlash, especially regarding Jack Harkness as a queer character. Imagine if s1 would be produced today! The trolls would explode out of fury.
RTD has just as much right as Moffat to be horny.
RTD has been constantly contradicting himself for quite a while now. I don't mind much of what he says if only he remained consistent.
Thank you! It’s nice to see someone ACTUALLY critically reviewing this special.
If I had a nickel for every time *Russell T Davies wrote the final episode for David Tennant’s Doctor and somehow missed the point of regeneration and left me disappointed* I’d have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot but it’s weird that it happened twice
It's not "Bi-generation" it's "Bi-Winning" cause The Doctor wins here and he wins over there just like Charlie Sheen intended
HE’S GOT TIGER BLOOD (from Survival) AND ADONIS DNA (from The Timeless Children).
@@DuelaDent52 LOL YES I just watched Survival yesterday haha
Bi generation,...see what they did there?!
I hear Wills voice echoing that Damm phrase,every time I hear bi-generation!!
Why would they even use the term snowmanned??and they knew they could get away with it,if they have a PHYSICAL FUCKING SNOWMAN head come crashing down on him..(insert giggle from cast and crew that all thought they were secretive for it)...sheesh🤦♂️🤣✌️🍻
@@DuelaDent52 You borrow his brain (of Morbius), and you're like: "DUDE! CAN'T HANDLE IT!"
Are you Bi-Polar?
*I’M BI-WINNING!!!*
This is a problem that we all thought was exclusive with Chibnal but can be seen throughout new who. Be a Toymaker episode, or be the political adventure about humanity being driven mad by their screens and social media, being both means that both suffer and I wouldn't say messing with humanity like this is necessarily the Toymaker's MO, he's usually happy to have one on one games with people and it seems too, planned if you know what I mean. Like this is how the Master would take control, not the Toymaker
To quote someone from the Christian Cawley from the Kasterborous podcast: The Toymaster.
Honestly you make a very valid point. The only 'plan' i could see the Toymaker doing is going specifically after the Doctor. He does call humanity pawns but I don't think he'd care enough to play with them. At least not until he makes the Doctor lose. He wouldnt go after the gods or the Master, he solely wants revenge against the one man who ever beat him.
At most, maybe he gets to the Doctor through kidnapping a few of his companions as insurance. It forces the Doctor to play and not cheat under the threat of them dying horrifically (ex the ball soldiers)
I dislike that this episode makes it clear that The Nightmare Fair and The Magic Mousetrap did never happen and that the Toymaker is not one of the Guardians of Time. RTD keeps taking ideas from the spin-off media and instead of building upon what the books and audios, or in the case of The Star Beast comics, had already done, just does his own version that renders the source material moot and serves as a statement that nothing that isn't on TV can be considered canon or in-continuity.
Also the idea that even a comparitively learning disabled Time Lord like the Doctor needs something as basic and human as rehab when he's as far ahead of humanity in terms of cultural, scientific and evolutionary development as humanity is from the common blob fish is kinda insulting.
Riiiight.
When it comes to Bi-generation, as a means to retire David's incarnation, it's flawed but in execution moving. However if its a means to keep him around as a recurring character or give him a spin off, then it's a bit of a cynical cash grab. While these specials were fun and it was nice to have David back, I'll stand by the fact it should always have been a retroactive epilogue.
Couldn't agree more. I love the emotion of it, but I don't want a cash grab cinematic universe. There are already a million ways in Doctor Who to bring back old characters.
I wish that these specials were longer- 5 would have given 14’s arc more time to breath
1) The Star Beast to reintroduce everyone to the show and characters
2) Wild Blue Yonder for a fun out there dr who episode
3) fun historical with Issac Newton (show how exhausted 14 is and how he needs to stop)
4 + 5) The Giggle part 1 and 2
Then episode 6 in the 60th year is Ncuti’s first real episode
During the whole Newton sequence, as per your third point, I immediately thought of the 1st Doctor's line to Barbara: _'You can't rewrite history, not one line!'_
Yet 14th Doctor does this for fun, now? I think this subtly highlights how he is not mentally in the right place. But this point is never picked up on, beyond it's now running "Mavity" gag.
I thought I'd love to contribute here since you got my brain expanding your great breakdown if that's ok.
0) The Power Of The Doctor (Ending) (Regeneration from 13 into 14)
0.5.) Liberation of the Daleks (13's Sonic Screwdriver Gets Destroyed), Destination Skaro, The Bedtime Story (sets up The Star Beast in its own way based on 14's goodbye and ramblings of home before going in the TARDIS)
1) The Star Beast (Reintroduce everyone to the show and characters but with improved use of Rose as I feel William/Mr. TARDIS pointed that out rightly that she didn't get enough to do overall - also "MEEP!)
2) Wild Blue Yonder (For a fun out there Dr Who episode and a character piece focusing on 14 & Donna more, can they save Jimbo too this time please and he can start a new life with the Nobles or UNIT or something?)
3 & 4) Gravity & Mavity (Fun Historical 2-Parter with Issac Newton & somehow the Fourth Doctor fits in somewhere because why not, as a quick cameo since he mentioned n Shada he met Sir Issac to Romana and together they established the force as Gravity - there's your end point to to fixing the problem of the accidental changing of the word and Mavity for fun is just alternative word for Gravity. (show how exhausted 14 is and how he needs to stop, this even gives weight to The Bootstrap Paradox created in Destination Skaro and how the events of TV versions of The Star Beast, Human Nature, Shada and The Lodger are almost a reflection of how messy time has gotten with The Doctor running around), maybe a return from The Curator in the form of Tom or Colin as a cameo to tell him this but, like with Donna saying that to him in The Giggle, it doesn't exactly set in as it will when 15 tells him.)
5 & 6 ) The Giggle & The Wiggle (More Time for Character Moments , Toymaker actually sings 'Spice Up Your Life' (Backing vocals by the Spice Girls of course), A Companion Coda before the lunch with Mel and the Nobles, where 14 (with Mel) meets Yaz at her house as she is about to leave for the Companion Circle Time Meeting , bump into Graham, Dan and Ryan at the park 13 left Yaz as a less bittersweet juxtaposition to that scene from POTD and so 14 catches up with everyone with tears and laughter, even interacting with Ian especially as another kind nod to 1963, and 14 sits and talks to them for a good while as the scene fades out etc. and during that time we see 15 picking his outfit like in The Christmas Invasion and by the time of the lunch scene ending he has found THE (Main) ONE we will see him in for The Church On Ruby Road as he rushes around his TARDIS fiddling with buttons and such onto the next adventure, leaving gaps for comics and books to fill before he gets to The Church in canon).
Thank you,
had people telling me "Oh no! David didn't overshadow Ncuti at all!!"
on posts when I made similar points not soon after airing
In my opinion, all these specials should have been maybe two hours like “day of the doctor.” or “time of the doctor.”
I know RTD's work well so I 100% see the bigeneration as a metaphor for queer trauma. For all of new who the doctor has dealt with the trauma of loss and the time war. Now he gets a chance to process it through friends and chosen family. Much like RTD has done in the decades following the AIDS crisis. I don't think it's a coincidence Ncutis first episode has him meet Ruby while dancing in a club, just like how RTD met his future husband in 1998.
I could not agree more with your review. The Giggle has some great excellent things to offer but it’s a hot mess and I really believed RTD would give Ncuti the best start possible but instead he just muddied the water with the whole bi-generation concept. It doesn’t really feel like we’re going into a bit of a reboot like it had seemed because we essentially have two Doctors existing simultaneously, I don’t buy it for a second that 14 wouldn’t help out in an invasion on Earth. I really felt like they needed to let Tennant go give him an ending like he did have in the end of time. It was disappointing because I love Ncuti I think he really shines but he shouldn’t have his predecessor hanging around at the start of his era
Yeah, to me it’s kind of gross that the first queer, black actor to play the Doctor isn’t THE Doctor and has to share the universe with his predecessor who may or may not regenerate again into him at some unspecified time in the far future, we don’t really know. And it actually does bother me that it’s Tennant’s face because he’s literally the mot popular Doctor and now the show has introduced the concept that it continues with just him somewhere off screen and shown Ncuti supposedly flying away in a copy of the “real TARDIS.” Just all of the choices surrounding this regeneration were bafflingly infuriating.
I think the reason why the Toymaker didn’t mention the Thirteenth Doctor’s companions in the puppet scene was because none of them died. If anything, I think it’s Russell condemning Moffat for his unwillingness to kill off his characters.
I do agree with your sentiments concerning Donna, though. If the Doctor regenerated back into the form of David Tennant in order to remind himself that he needs to stop, why does he have to settle down with Donna, of all the companions he’s travelled with? Heck, if he wants a family, he’s still got a granddaughter.
I got the sense of "That's alright then." as a criticism. And really Doctor Who can't have it both ways: are they tragic or happy endings. I guess it's supposed to be both, but Moffat's endings just didn't work for me.
@@dirrdevil Yeah, precisely. If you’re going to give your companion a happy ending where they live to a great age or explore the universe in a TARDIS or with their lover, that’s fine, but don’t use death as a means to get there. That’s cheating.
yeah no one ever talks about susan. if it were me, I would of brought Susan back and also regenerated into a new form.
RTD failed to kill of when he teased the Deaths of Rose and Donna (Twice) and they lived!!!
@@marionbaggins I think there’s a discernible difference between teasing to kill off a character and actually doing it. Moffat frequently did the latter, before constantly reversing it.
Its an odd thing, but Giggle both feels padded and too short. What's required for the plot? Set up, flipping a card and playing catch. It fills the time with stuff like UNIT and the Toymaker's realm segment which are nice but not necessary. Perhaps the UNIT stuff is set up for the future, but in that case its odd to set up stuff for "Season one" by referencing some ancient history. At the same time, as said here the emotional arcs do not land and need more time.
"Sven was many things - a harsh warrior, a brutal killer, a violator of women..."
"But he was not a traitor to his king!"
"OH, WELL THAT'S ALRIGHT THEN!"
I liked it honestly, I just wish the bigeneration was teased beforehand somehow though
I did like it too, but I think the mechanics of bi-regeneration needed better explaining on screen I.e. what happens to 14 now. I can make some leaps and well believe them, but I don’t think there’s actually a solid answer.
it say a small baby part of it was explained by the fact it was a myth and what the doctor did last episode brought that into reality
It was. In the Star Beast the Doctor had to deal with the consequences of Journey's End, which was literally where another Doctor was made and sauntered off into his own world. And in Wild Blue Yonder 14 had to literally face himself, confront his past choices and attempt to move on from them. There's definitely a thematic throughline through all of this.
Theme is not the same as plot mechanics. @@cinemagoose
I didn't like it but I also felt it should've been teased beforehand. You can't just pull it out of nowhere and say it's a myth that's existed for years
17:24 Listing Yaz, Graham, Ryan, and Dan probably wouldn't work for what the Toymaker was trying to say since none of them died.
Amy died of old age like many of his companions.
@@booradley8895but trapped in the past and separated from her friends and family (except Rory).
@@EditedAF987 Better that then being shot in the chest and turned into a cyberman.
I really, REALLY want to like this episode. Despite the fact that RTD has clearly never actually watched what's left of the original story, the Toymaker was a wonderfully fun villain and NPH ran circles around the rest of the cast.
There's just too much to dislike for me to consider it good. I could list out 2 dozen things that the episode did wrong, from minor nitpicks to actual plot-holes, but I'd rather just ignore it and pretend Ncuti appeared in Power of the Doctor.
I agree that the story really needed the length of a two-parter. the problem is that I fear RTD would have just used the extra time to put in even more ideas that also wouldn't be fleshed out or be integrated into any coherent story
I could not agree more about how the bigeneration cheats Ncuti Gatwa and his entrance. I also think it's crazy that his first appearance/regeneration. will always be marked by the fact that he's half naked.
I still love the giggle, but respect the take
One thing that I think would have sold the doctors emotional exhaustion a bit better is if he reflected on making the wrong decision in Wild Blue Yonder
Also, I think the puppet scene would have hit more if we saw flashes of the scenes Amy, Rory, Clara and Bill died as the toy maker finishes talking about them, and then cut to david tennant with tears in his eyes. similar to the effect they used that flashed back to the doctor and toymakers first meeting
I'd like that a bit more, actually. Great idea.
To me Neil Patrick Harris as the Toymaker is the best part of the specia I mean that scene with that Spice Girls soundtrack that will never get weirdly old, Also that 'Well that's alright then' meme.. Need I say more? Also Bonnie Landford as Mel, I know she already appeared in 'Power of the Doctor' but it was nice to see her again after her last proper appearance on Dragonfire in over 35 years, At least we see some expenation what has happened to her since she left the Doctor, And... I think the ending is just alright, At the very least the 'David Tennant' 14th Doctor got a happy ending, I know that some didn't like it from what I heard but I don't think it's that bad, So if I have to rate the story as a whole... I give it a 7.5/10, Still has some flaws but still good enough to watch.
For once, I actually agree with everything you said. The problem with the specials is that they were all standalone, but they should have been all linked together with Toymaker beimg in all 3 episodess
I would argue Jodie's departure already got watered down by bringing back David Tennant in the first place.
In spite of 10 being my favourite Doctor, in spite of all the arguments the fandom has been having for the last year, my opinion remains the same:
David Tennant returning at all diminishes both Jodie Whittaker and Ncuti Gatwa. They deserve better than being part of the "epic 2008 David Tennant return" sandwich
If Jodie’s departure was watered down, that’s on the fans who stopped watching while she was the Doctor. And talking about who the next Doctor would be BEFORE SHE LEFT.
I thought this was a great end to the 60th specials, David and Catharine were great and it was fun to get Kate, Mel and Shirley back.
It was also great to get an extended look at Ncuti’s 15th Doctor before the Christmas special and season 1.
People always bring up the Watcher from "Logopolis" as a way to make the bigeneration make sense, but I don't think the comparison holds very much water. The Watcher was a plot device to foreshadow the Fourth Doctor's impending regeneration, not a character in their own right, and to be honest it didn't make much sense there either. If the Watcher had just been Peter Davison bouncing around and playing second banana to Tom Baker, that would have felt really unsatisfying to watch because you'd have to spend an already busy story splitting the attention between Baker's goodbye and Davison's introduction. Oh, and Davison wouldn't be wearing any pants for most of it. The concept breaks down if you think about it for too long, and I'm just sick and tired of people coming up with excuses for why RTD essentially robbing the first openly queer actor of color to play the Doctor of his time to shine *in his introductory episode* was in any way okay.
👏👏👏👏
Nolly was filmed in the same building I went to therapy in, the old Pilkington Glass Headquarters. I remember the sets being disassembled and getting carried through the corridors.
Thank. You. I've been stewing over this episode since it came out and you've perfectly put into words the issues I had with it. I think the point you brought up about the story not doing nearly enough to justify Donna's return can also extend to tennant as 14 as a whole.
I couldn't escape the feeling of the whole thing being empty fanservice, because I was never given enough of a reason to feel otherwise. Why is this face afforded the chance to have this "happily ever after" with this specific companion? Is it really just because they're fan favourites? Is it really narratively responsible to set the precident that tragedies can be retroactively undone as long the characters or actors are popular enough?
I don't know, it just felt like Tennant was being presented as "The MAIN Doctor", which is so antithetical to what this show is, if you ask me.
I agree, it's like back in the day when RTD made The Doctor basically like "oh Rose, you are the best companion ever, none of the others really meant anything to me compared to you" - if RTD felt like that about Rose that's fine but I didn't like him making The Doctor feel like that.
I’ve watched Doctor Who from the very beginning in 1963 when it was conceived with An Unearthly Child, so a spinoff of the First Doctor as played by David Bradley has to be my choice as a fan of 60 years. William Hartnell remains my favourate Doctor, so from my perspective if RTD and the BBC care about the world’s longest running science fiction series this has to be on the cards.
Eh, David Bradley doesn’t play the First Doctor very well in my opinion. And I just think it’s a bit weird to make a show about an actor who died decades ago.
David is in his 80s now so its seems unlikely. Maybe a one off special?
@@seankelly8432 True David Bradley is 81, so I guess wouldn’t want to be making a series like Ncuti Gatwa, but maybe some belated 60th anniversary specials as we are still technically in the anniversary year up until November 2024.
@@toasterroast7678 As a fan of the William Hartnell Doctor, I was a nine-year-old when the first episode of An Unearthly Child was broadcast; I think David Bradley captured the essential character of Hartnell and the First Doctor. Unlike Richard Hurndall, who I felt was to wooden and hated him in the role of Hartnell’s Doctor when he was in the Five Doctors special in 1983. I think An Adventure in Space and Time was a great tribute to all involved in creating Doctor Who and don’t see what’s peculiar about it, or bizarre about a series of specials with Bradley as the First Doctor. It would be excellent TV going back to its roots, tackling socio-economic and geo-political issues via the medium of science-fiction as the First Doctor did in The Daleks, The Dalek Invasion of Earth, The Savages, The War Machines and The Tenth Planet.
ruclips.net/video/mLwLV1W2H_c/видео.html
The issues I had with The Giggle reminded me a lot of those in Nightmare in Silver. That episode was originally written as a two-parter and similar "playing mind games for control" with the CyberDoctor and the Toymaker. Both end up completely underused even though they're some of the best parts of the episode.
I'm probably in the minority here when I say this but David Tennant shouldn't have been the 14th Doctor, Ncuti should've been the 14th.
I very much agree. I wish we would've went from Jodie to Ncuti.
@@NicoleM_radiantbabySame Here!!!
I agree.
When I heard the rumor I was hoping it was wrong. It obviously happened and I like the specials. I actually prefer 14 over 10, but my problems with it haven’t left. I think it serves as a disservice to Ncuti Gatwa.
I agree
Agreed. Now after everything I don’t think it was a good decision and I don’t get why RTD didn’t hold off Ncuti and have the 60th specials be about past Doctors with Tennant as Ten and McGann as Eight or even explaining Jo Martin’s Doctor. Also the Doctor line up and picture of all of them are messy since Tennant is there twice.
What I want to know s why the Toymaker is already calling him Stooky Bill, seeing as Stooky is Scots and Baird only called him Stooky BIll because he was Scottish.
17:23 - that's because none of 13's companions died, they all got to live normally after leaving the Doctor.
It really annoys me that they DIDN'T explain why the Doctor's clothes changed from 13 to 14, like???
Amy lived normally until she died of old age.
@@booradley8895 She didn't live entirely normally as she was completely out of her time, she certainly made the most of it but yeah.
@@friendlyotaku9525 Rory was not included, didn't he matter at all to the doctor?
@@booradley8895 yeah it is a bit odd that he just wasn't mentioned at all...
@@friendlyotaku9525 13 could not fix herself to someone and hey presto a new family to settle down with. Hopeful doctor when regenerating to needing therapy. Almost like 13 was erased from the doctor's memory.
According to RTD and Phil Collinson in behind the scenes stuff, the puppet and card stuff actually was all NPH himself. Collinson suggested getting NPH for the role specifically because they knew he was a puppeteer and magician in real life, so casting him would mean they'd have someone who could legitimately do what was in the script.
I'm sure I recall NPH talking about how taxing it was to be acting while puppeteering at the same time too.
So, what is the good parts are only there because they took a very good actor that wrote his scene ?
I loved The Giggle while I was watching it, but you've absolutely nailed why I didn't feel satisfied by it. Thanks for this great review.
Oustanding review. I agreed with almost everything.
The Giggle cemented for me that bringing Tennant back was a bad creative decision. RTD barely even *tries* to justify it in-universe; it's just a Thing that Happened for Reasons. The only reason he does give, The Doctor 'coming home' is a huge slap in the face to the Moffat and Chibnall eras, as well as making absolutely no sense at all in-universe. And I fully agree, as a whole, the episode, although having great moments, was a confusing, muddled mess.
How is Tennant coming back a slap in the face to Moffat or Chibnall’s era?
@@harlowethrombey7665 Because it acts like the RTD era is the only one that 'matters'. And forgets that the Doctor's 'home' is so more than just Donna.
@@NicoleM_radiantbaby I disagree with that completely. RTD made several references to Moffat and Chibnall’s storylines. If people are upset about Tennant being back, they need to ask themselves if they really gave enough support to the show over the years after he left. The ratings steadily declined, and most people complained non stop about the show.
@@harlowethrombey7665 Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I definitely supported the show while Tennant was away. In fact, it was just after he left, with the Moffat era, that I fell in love with the show again for the first time since the Classic series and even ran a Doctor Who podcast about the show for a good decade until quite recently. I don't think that not supporting Tennant coming back means not supporting the show outside of him, but YMMV, I guess?🤷
This was a very satisfying watch. Madsive glaring issues no one seems to have addressed, well-articulated.
This bit in particular means a lot tho 39:37
This is all 100% true. The story feels so rushed with no breathing room, and having music in literally every moment I think also makes it so fatiguing and hard to connect with on a dramatic level, let the actors do their job without a constant score undermining them. And the ending made me feel so weird, it felt like the first POC actor to play Dr Who proper is made out to kinda be a copy or different version of the original, which feels like such bad optics, also for the sake of property rights that's late-stage capitalist nonsense. This is late-stage Dr WHo.
I really appreciate your critiquing on this episode. While I don't agree on some points, I really value that you're genuinely critiquing and not just hating on the episode because of the trans/black/gay characters (which of course I knew you wouldn't do) I'm sick of seeing blatant homophobia, transphobia and racism being painted as a review by so called fans. I'll keep coming back here for your content, it feels safe.
Your summation matches my own. Gatwa deserves a clean break and clear hand off.
I agree with the point of Ncuti's regeneration being undercut, and put in the background. I also think the did the same to Jodie, with her not being able to pass the torch to a new doctor, and put to the side in her last story. Both stories are good, but have problems, like messing up the regeneration numbering.
I really wish Jodie had regenerated into Ncuti! They could’ve done the specials with her and closed of the era that way! No Fourteen necessary. If David and Catherine were keen on returning, have them return as 10 and Donna alongside other TARDIS teams to celebrate the show‘s history.
@@Lia-zw1ls7tz7oi don’t think they could’ve done them with her because of the elephant in the room pardon the pun but when it came to Jodie in at least power of the doctor she was first trimester pregnant and would’ve been in her last bit of pregnancy when they started filming the specials so they would’ve had to explain why the doctor now look 8-9 months pregnant but I would’ve liked all 3 specials set in the toymaker’s realm even if he didn’t appear in all three he could’ve had a line like he was the mastermind behind the Star beast and wild blue yonder and he used the meta crisis doctor and after defeating the toymaker we end up back on the cliff top with Jodie regenerating even if it’s a stand in for her like Sylvester McCoy did for Colin baker cause he wouldn’t return to film the regeneration bit of the first episode of time and the rani that way it doesn’t undercut Jodie and Ncuti’s regenerations
@@kevin10001 That would've been great! Although I would've loved to see them explaining why Thirteen looked pregnant. Doctor Who can do so much, they could've found a reason for that (maybe the Toymaker could toy with the Doctor in some way).
Maybe. Does she want to acting when heavily pregnant though? Probably not.
@@Lia-zw1ls7tz7o
RTD Undercut Smith's/Moffat's Entrance, by making Regeneration feel like death and dying back in 2009/10. When it was a rebirth of the show and now with them back 'End of Time' feels so weird!!!
It's a shame because Wild Blue Yonder is legit a minor classic and in fan consensus it's going to be lost in the middle of this clunky trilogy. Kind of like how Extremis is a fantastic episode on it's own terms but isn't really on people's radars because it kicks of the Monk trilogy.
Instead of the bigeneration, they should have had just Tennant in all the scenes up to the rehab scene in the garden, then a timeskip of an unknown time to the future (in a location that doesn't show a time period) and have him regenerate into 15 there. Maybe even without seeing tennant's face or him speaking, maybe something similar to the first teaser for 15 where it's just a silhouette against the stary sky, then the regeneration. That way, the keep basically the exact same story but have 14 actually leave.
That would have be good.
And have 15 go back in time and help when he is need. Exact same episode.
Personally.
14 reward : the toymaker to leave (And protect the world)
15 reward : duplication of the Tardi (selfish)
15 Could have ask to anything that would have fix something important. But, we get a second Tardi.
Nothing happened to 13's companions lol. What would the Toymaker even have to say?
I guess he could mention Yaz being stranded in the past for 3 years. It’s not the worst but probably messed her up a bit (and I guess Jericho died)
@@spacepenguins8939 Sure, but Yaz didn't actually get messed up from being stranded for three years, right? There was no evidence that it affected her at all. Also, how funny would it be if the Toymaker brought out a Jericho puppet? Lmao I would actually love that.
Good review of The Giggle! I really enjoyed it and I love Neil Patrick Harris as the Toymaker. Who do you think is the one who is waiting? I know Harbo Wholmes said that Fenric might be the one who is waiting, and he has played The Doctor before.
Yay it’s here!!! I was waiting so eagerly for this video.
The DW fandom spaces I’m a part of all seemed to have nothing critical to say about this episode and before I watched the stream you did on it I was really wondering if it was just me. I loved RTD’s era so much and I’m so excited to see what he’s going to do this time around but this episode has made me sort of nervous.
To me it wasted the Toymaker and the Stooky Bill plot, cheapens Rose and Tentoo’s ending, gives Donna and Fourteen a really shallow resolution and denies Ncuti all the rituals that come with being a new Doctor. I grew up with and adore these characters but I felt *nothing* watching that scene at the end where they’re all having lunch. Everyone else said they were weeping and that it was such a brilliant resolution and to me it just didn’t feel earned.
One of my biggest issues with this episode though is the vagueness around Fourteen going forward. Some people think he’s mortal now (like Tentoo), some think he’s going to regenerate into Fifteen eventually. My understanding is the latter but that creates the issue of him still being immortal and, if he’s going to stick around on Earth for a while, eventually outliving all of his loved ones. This was something that haunted the Doctor for the entirety of RTD1, and it gave so much weight to Tentoo’s creation and ending with Rose. Is Fourteen meant to heal himself while watching everyone he loves die?
That all being said, I still enjoyed watching it but it could have been so much more!
I agree with all of your points except one: I think the 15th is just there now. There's no future regeneration of the 14th into the 15th. It happened already. 14 is just still around... for some reason, which I dislike for all the excellent reasons you made.
Yeah, the whole thing about Fourteen 'getting therapy' by watching his loved ones die really bothers me. I remember my immediate reaction was 'HOW is this a happy ending?'. I still don't get it.
@@dirrdevilmy reasoning for thinking Fourteen will eventually properly regenerate is the “doing rehab out of order” thing. From what we saw of Fifteen he’s supposed to have gained the benefits of the therapy Fourteen did, but how does that work if they never reconnect? Using Ten and Tentoo as examples, from the point of regeneration they are two different timelines with much different life experiences, they don’t share knowledge.
However, I completely understand having a different interpretation of the episode. The reason it’s one of my biggest issues is because of how many different interpretations there are. I’m all for headcanons but this goes way beyond that because there is no actual confirmed canon to go off. It shouldn’t be this confusing, RTD really messed up there.
It does definitely feel like Russ wanted to have his cake and eat it too, which is a common problem with his finales. It's got some pretty serious pacing issues and I think that the bigeneration was probably not right for this moment, giving NMDs fuel for their fires and undercutting Ncuti's introduction. I do smile though knowing David was one of Ncuti's favourite Doctors and he was probably really happy that he got to share some scenes with him. At least he probably enjoyed it :)
Overall it's a 6/10 episode for me. Lots of fun, action and some really nice and emotional scenes but ultimately too full of stuff for its own good. At least The Church on Ruby Road was a banger. Now that's an introduction for a Doctor.
As for the politics, yeah the line about cancellation is a bit rich, but I do like the thematic parallel you drew between the austerity-bashed audience and 14's exhaustion. I really like how you're able to make deep and introspective insights into the show's production and themes, far better than the reactionaries who can't see anything below the surface level.
Let's hope that Russ will have cooked successfully by May, eh?
The Giggle definitely needed to be a 2-part story at the bare minimum. We spent most of the Chibnall era criticising overstuffed stories, so this feels like very familiar grounds. The giggle had enough to cover all 3 specials imo, but k imagine the format was set by higher-ups at the BBC or Bad Wolf. I think RTD having so much to set up couldn't get to his best with these episodes. I'm still hopeful for Ncuti's era, especially after Ruby Road.
I honestly thought the "come in a range of colours" thing was a reference to 15th's queerness, not his skin colour, but it does sound like it's about skin colour.
Also, the Doctor feeling "tired", like "he's staggering" I don't think it's physical, it's emotional. It's feeling worn out by age, not just by trauma. It feels like a perfect consequence of 13's emotional struggles. In fact, Tennant feels like he's pulling more from Whittaker's performance than his own as 10.
Yes the "colours" part have double meaning like the "bi-generation".
But, it's aim to be "cleaver" and pass under the radar for the younger viewer.
Honestly dislike both of the meaning in this context.
For the "tired" too. It's could have been okay as a plot. But, it's needed to be felt, not told. Because, we were told he was broken since incarnation 1. And never addressed it...
100% agree, thank you for putting into words what I've been feeling and trying to argue for a couple months now.
I honestly feel like a 60th anniversary mini series of like 6 episodes would have been better as the star best feels like an introduction to a new series, wild blue yonder is just a very good doctor who episode and the giggle feels like a rushed ending that while I enjoy feels like a true celebration of doctor who with returning villans and companions and a kinda multi dactor special
I really didn't like much of how they wrapped up 14 but especially not that they make out like it's the doctor coming home to Donna and her family - He barely knew Shaun and Rose for a day and Sylvia seems to have only mellowed more recently and warmed to him after putting Donna in constant danger.
The Ponds would have been a much better choice to have for that and if they wanted they could have even had a send off like 10 had for his friends before he "retired".
It all was quite out of the blue and the fact they didn't bring up the Curator, 12 or the Edge was a massive disservice to what the show had built up. I understand wanting to draw a definite line under the BBC run yo focus on Ncuti but it really does a disservice to fans outside of 10 and Donna stans as well as it doesn't really work.
Amazing review Will, i completely agree with everything youve said and you articulated it so well. Its such a shame because i love so much of the toymaker stuff, but evrything else including the resolution to that plotline is so poorly handled that its hard to even appreciate the good bits in isolation. I just feel bad for Ncuti, feels like this episode doesnt have full faith in him given its keeping Tennant around, which is such a shame because as shown in the christmas special i think hes excellent and is going to be something truly special as an incarnation
40:02 that's Russell's greatest shortcoming, surely. Turn Left, Years and Years. What's he actually saying? What's the mesdage of his dystopia, or the solution?
What's a case of The Bristol?
just a curious Bristolian wondering.
Not sure I agree with every individual point, but I definitely feel the overall sentiment, even if the Giggle was the most enjoyable special while watching it. The reason something like bigeneration is a harder sell to me than the Timeless Child is because while TTC had questionable execution, I felt the ideas were compelling and any disappointment I have is BECAUSE it never reached its full potential. Whereas with this, even if the idea is being utilised more, it feels as you say more indulgent, there just for the sake of it. I definitely don't disagree with the idea this could've used more time.
It was an ending and fan service no one asked for. We've already got enough of that.
I was waiting for the moment in the episode where 14 has some sort of heart failure or something after the bi generation so that 15 finally gets their moment in the spotlight to become the doctor. I thought there would be some call back dialogue along the lines of
15: Bi generation has never happened before and we now know why that is.
14: Because there can't be.
Doing a nice metacrisis reference, then maybe 14 sort of passes into some sort of rift energy effect. I don't know I'm not a writer. But in my head that gives so much more closure and makes so much more sense than whatever is going on in the Nobles garden. I get it's rehab out of order, but where's the rehab? or is 14 saying no no no?
I thought the split custume was a result of the bi-regeneration? It would have been really weird if the bi-regeneration, a supposedly biological process, caused his his clothes to be replicated too.
Yes I know the criticism could also be made about Jodie's regeneration into Tennant, but most of the criticism I agree with.
5:26 _"What the hell is ge-raining?"_ - Past participles in German add a "ge-" prefix to the core verb. For example: "gefunden" (found"), "gespielen" (played), "gesprochen" (spoke). Adding such prefixes to English verbs became a device for writing comedy Germans e.g. "He verblundered around in ze dark, getripped into ze puddle und voss gedrenched!"
21:51 Agreed. It's Orphan 55 last speech level of lecturing.
I have an idea for what they potentially could have done for 13's companions
There could be some mention of how all recent companions had survived, to which the toymaker would be like:
"Ohhh, but ze doctor left Dan wizthout a home! Ryan and GrayHam, zey lost zeir dear old Grazce, and poor littel Yazmin, OH! You really did break her heart, doctor! Zey may still be aliven but Zeir lives will nevar be ze same after you! ... do you not feel any SHAME...?"
I think it would work! pardon the amateur fan fic writing lol
Overall I agree with what you're saying, despite having good parts, it felt like it wasn't given any time to breathe. I feel like it would have been a better story if they just didn't bother with setting up for the future to be honest, leave that to when its actually started.
As it stands the setup for the master served as nothing more than "he's coming back again :/", the setup for the unit stuff felt like it could have really just been the unit tower, the vlinx and mel could have absolutely been introduced in ncuti's era and not suffered from how crunched this episode is, and "the boss", "the one who waits" and the toymakers "legions", all of it just feels... the same. there is some mysterious strong character coming soon. wow, cool, okay. please give me reason to care and then we can justify leaving so much of this FINALE episode to setups!!!
The way I look at the bigeneration is that it's the culmination of a mayfly incarnation, albeit one with a familiar face. Let's not forget, from Liberation of the Daleks to The Giggle - taking in Destination: Skaro, The Bedtime Story and various comic strips and short stories, the Fourteenth Doctor barely lasts a day (admittedly, I've not read the stuff from the annual, so it could be a number of days). As such, it makes sense to view this incarnation almost as a chrysalis or cocoon; a larval form of the Fifteenth Doctor, if you like. Kind of like the Watcher in reverse. Ultimately, the sloughed skin of 14 will fade, completing 15's rehabilitation.
It also interests me the fact that RTD is openly criticising firm views on any subject - whether that's hating some people or cancelling others - and it hits a nerve of a lot of internet Whovians. By dismissing it, people are missing the point. Our ire at the views of others is significantly more self-destructive than just simply ignoring perspectives we don't agree with. Admittedly, I'm 48 and looking at the past through rose-tinted spectacles, but it used to be you could have a conversation with someone and, if you hit a topic that enraged one or the other, an apology was offered and the subject was never brought up again. Except, of course, in the spirit of mickey-taking. We certainly didn't fall out with one another because we held different opinions. Or if someone did, they be regarded as emotionally immature or something. I don't know, maybe the days of friendly yet charged debate are long gone. Which would be sad if true.
Yes, I know I've gone off on a wild tangent, but I felt it was worth pointing out nonetheless.
You have a point to an extent. But you just don't entertain any ideas and politely disagree on them. If it's about a TV show quibble about how sci-fi technology works, it's fine to agree to disagree. When it's political about whether certain people should feature in media, then no. You disagree. This is the classic paradox of tolerating intolerance. And society was never so agreeable: it's just more blatant with the Internet and social media, but humans are not doing new things; they're doing the same stuff in new ways.
@@dirrdevil Thank you. It's not about tolerating intolerance necessarily, it's about contextualising the intolerance. As you're no doubt aware, the more one openly criticises an individual, the more likely that individual is to dig their heels in and double down on whatever their point was. In essence, it's about how one addresses intolerance; to coin a phrase, if you want to be heard, stop shouting. Being reasonable and rational with intolerance is far more productive than openly condemning it. A civil conversation over a couple of pints can resolve more disharmony than accusations and arguments. In my experience, in any case.
"ge-raining" and the other "ge-" words the Toymaker uses are just imitating German verb conjugation but it's both too silly and subtle to work since you have to know German to even get it
Awh man , my name wasn’t in the credits ?!
SDJames was missed , it’s in the last one but not this one ?
Plus I completely agree, I believe it felt like a bit of a half measure that Ncuti didn’t get his first appearance stand-alone to show the way of the new doctor becoming… well the doctor !
Mel being underused doesn't bother me too much seeing as we know she's back in the Ncuti Gatwa. By way of comparison, I think some fans might be more forgiving of Captain Jacks underuse in Revolution of the Daleks if that episode wasn't likely to be his last appearance in the franchise for the forseeable future. Of course Barrowman himself is largely to blame for that.
I agree, this story really needed breathing room. I love Wild Blue Yonder. It's nice to have a classic style story with Donna and The Doctor. But, if there was absolutely no way to get 4 specials, then I would be fine dropping it for a Giggle part 1 and part 2.
My head canon is that 14 becomes the Valeyard. I have no reason outside of this incarnation feeling the effects of everything the Doctor has been through and the fact I don't think he can regenerate again because then we'd have two 15th Doctors.
Obviously this undercuts the whole arc Russell was going for.
19:21 but we know from DWM that essentially the idea to bring back DT and CT came from them joiining in some on-line watching of their old episodes on Twitter during the pandemic. So it is no wonder it doesnt add up at the end of the day
Oh shit I forgot about Turlough. I was going to say Vicki also had red hair.
Liz Shaw, too
Wait Vicki is described as been a redhead? I assume she had mixed brown/blond hair
Your description of an hour long End of Time is how I feel about the Daleks colourization. I like the slow pacing of the episode and it lost so much cutting it down imo
GAUCHE = french word for LEFT... the opposite of the direction right. Left hand, right hand.
Expression : to act in a Gauche manner = to be clumsy. Maladroit.
Avoir 2 mains gauches : having two left hands = meaning to be clumsy
Snow isnt snow until it falls. That is the issue with the 14th Doctor.
I loved Neil Patrick Harris in this. He’s always brilliant, and to have him just having the time of his life is wondrous (even if he isn’t really at all like Michael Gough). I also really liked the whole concept of The Giggle and all that. It had a proper good Doctor Who premise. I also liked UNIT’s inclusion even if they didn’t do much (surely Martha would’ve been a more appropriate companion to return but I digress).
I didn’t really like the bi-generation. I think it upsets a lot more about the lore than even the Timeless Child (with the implication that all the Doctors did it, that is).
It seems in every new era of Doctor Who, there will be lore changes the audience just quietly ignores forever.
Remember when Moffat introduced the zygones and erased any memory the leaders and unit had as to who was who and then left them in a room to figure it out….only to return to it 2 seasons later. Yeah the 50th also had an issue with the starting conflict not having a conclusion in the special, so we may just have to wait until it is
Moffat didn't introduce the Zygons, they're from the Fourth Doctor's era
@@not-that-Chris he reintroduced them to a new audience but you’re right.
So, both specials have issues of being incomplete stories? But I think the Zygons in The Day of the Doctor work as is.
@@dirrdevil I agree with you. Day of the Doctor was a complete and coherent story. the subsequent two-parter merely shows a possible development.
By contrast, the Giggle was a mess of multiple ideas, none coherently developed
@@dirrdevilThe Zygons invading earth was the main conflict that brought 11 to unit and is the main conflict that war doctor observes in order to understand who his future incarnations would be. But we never see the resolution of the conflict until series 9, even though Unit is in series 8. I think they're pretty equal in incompletion but Moffat handled it better than RTD did. But it was an issue with that special.
I'll probably come up with a paragraph on why the brief inclusion and re-tooling of "The Shepard's Boy" was thematic genius, but I'm too tired, that excellent review was very detailed. All I gotta say at the moment is, I liked it, I've listened to it like 20 times now and Murray Gold needs a raise.
That Graham Norton episode had such a strange vibe like what was even going on
When i watched the star beast and the giggle, i thought both of these stories required to be 2 parters. The ending of both is kinda rushed
They also could’ve made the 3 specials all 1 story with the toymaker where the first episode is the second game(after william hartnell’s first), where we see the doctor lose. The second episode is the third game and see the doctor lose again leading to donna saying the doctor is burning out/staggering on. This would mean the final episode has the doctor trying to win against the toymaker who’s taken over earth but fails. We could then have Ncuti’s doctor come in meaning 2 doctors will be able to turn the tide and win.
It's so odd to me that ep 1 sets up demonstrates why Donna would prioritize her family, and then ep 2 has her worry about them but then doesn't develop how her at risk really puts her seeing her family again at risk (like they mention it at the start but it's not an ongoing point of contention) and then when Donna CAN go back to see them ... we don't. It's baffling to me that the Toymaker didn't target Donna's family, or Donna didn't go see them even remotely before hand. I get why she'd want to help the doctor, but also the point was she already memory-died once and she supposedly this time around wasn't as keen to travel...
Like in a way, if you haven't seen the first ep and then someone tells you "oh Donna got her memory back" you really don't need ep 1 at all except for the last 5 minutes.
i was so disappointed with the toymaker because he's a GREAT villain conceptually but the only times he was actually good in the episode was during the scene in the toy shop and when he did the spice up your life
Martha should get a Doctor now
I think this is the first time in a while that I have agreed with everything you have to say about a DW episode.
I definitely think that when the Doctor and Donna return to the present is when the episode doesn't feel as strong, especially with the Toymaker's defeat.
Also, my headcanon is that bigeneration pulls the next incarnation from the future shortly after the regeneration, so the Doctor hasn't undergone mitosis as it appears.
I'd like that, but I actually think that's what it is: mitosis. It's why the clothes go with one or the other (even though it doesn't make sense). Also, the 15th Doctor is very clear that's he essentially newly born.
The Toymaker caused the Doctor to regenerate into 14. That’s why the Doctor’s clothes changed. The 60th Specials are one long paradox. Basically, when Toymaker re-entered the universe, he knew it was 14 and Donna’s meddling with the Not-Things that allowed him to do so. So the Toymaker, who is beyond the limits of time, retroactively manipulated events in the Doctor’s life from Power of the Doctor to The Giggle (turning him into 14, reuniting him with Donna, etc). All so that the Toymaker ensured his own existence. You’ll notice there’s a lot of coincidences across the Specials; I think the Toymaker is deliberately responsible. It’s all a “game” and paradox of his design.
Admittedly this is just my personal theory and I likely put more thought into tying all the canon together than RTD did.
I wish they addressed the clothing change in-episode. But yes, it's totally within the power for The Toymaker to change The Doctor's outfit. Even without The Toymaker's powers, due to the effects of Time Travel, someone the Doctor encounters in their future can certainly affect their past; even humans can have these out-of-order cause & effects.
I don't think The Toymaker made the 13th into the 14th. I think that's coincidence. Maybe The Toymaker could do it, but it doesn't seem like they're personally interested in altering The Doctor's appearance or anything. The Toymaker did shoot a weapon into the 14th to prompt a regeneration, but didn't account or purposely cause biregeneration.
Based on the episodes, the Toymaker didn’t come back until after Wild Blue Yonder. So he couldn’t have messed with the regeneration.
@@harlowethrombey7665 The Toymaker is essentially a god, and not bound by the constraints of linear time. And in “The Giggle” the Toymaker even tells the Doctor “I made a jigsaw puzzle of your history. Did you like it?” which implies the Toymaker has played around with the Doctor’s timeline. So in order to explain away some discrepancies (14’s clothes regenerating, the coincidences in Star Beast, etc) my theory is once the Toymaker entered the universe, he retroactively guided events in the Doctor’s timeline in order to ensure 14 and Donna encountered the Not-Things and thereby allowed the Toymaker back into the universe. It’s a grandfather paradox, but still just my personal theory/headcanon.
@@rjones6127 That line is there to tell people that they should make up their own minds about the history of the show. So if you want to believe the Toymaker tampered with the regeneration, that’s totally fine. I had that same theory, but when I watched the Specials, I changed my mind about it.
I did like the Giggle overall, due to just how great the first 2/3rds are,
But i am confused why Russell didn't plan to make this a Two Parter.
Potentially there was any idea of not trying to have David back for TOO long, and make it short,
But it absolutely would have helped the story and raised the stakes so much higher.
I'm expecting a rant video of how the bi-generation results in all the past doctors getting bi-generated leads to new adventures according to Davies
Like the season 6b fan theory for the 2nd doctor
Although you don’t like The Giggle so much, I thought it was good. Your opinion is subjective which is fine. I’m not here to try to prove you wrong. Could’ve been better as a two-parter as you said but despite its obvious flaws, I enjoy on repeat viewings.
I still think Ncuti is given a great introduction here and a better one in The Curch on Ruby Road. He’s absolutely amazing and I can’t wait to see him in action this coming May.
I will say that the signs of Russell reusing tropes that he’s done before whether intentional or not does make me worry he might go down the route that Moffat took halfway through his tenure where he ends up repeating plots and troupes in his narrative but I think we should have faith in Russell. Not every writer is perfect even from one as brilliant as him after all.
Ruby Road confirmed that The Giggle was a bit of a fluke and we should be getting RTD greatness from now on. He's reusing ideas from all revival eras but doing it in a fascinating way.
@@benw4409I agree. I mean, writing anniversaries is hard! Not all can go down well. Just as with any other episode. Anniversaries just have this extra weight and the extra expectations on them.
I still don't like 14 's ending or where he's at. It's a tired retread of Rose's ending. RTD's favorite companion coming back after having a satisfying ending to get another "happy" ending with "their" Doctor. It feels cheap.
Toymaker patrick Harris defiantly is able to deal this cards and do slight of hand he is an expert magician. Puppetry maybe assisted by another person but with his skill to turn his hand to anything. Neil Patrick Harris could probably turn his hand to the spice girls song, BUT he heard it first days before he filmed those scenes. That was why he had to lipsink.
I think the new series might fall like the classic series where the story gets obsessed with continuity from 2 decades ago then breaks down.