Brilliantly put. In some ways, this is my favourite Dalek story. Sec turns to humanity when watching the Cult attack hooverville and then goes on to say Davros was wrong to remove their emotions, pity and sense of what is right, but he starts questioning the Dalek purpose and belief before he even mutates. The scene where the Cult debate the Dalek ideology is one of my favourites with the Daleks.
I think something worth praise in these episodes is how well the daleks are filmed. It goes unspoken a lot but I feel like the daleks need to be shot a specific way on camera like Darth Vader needs to be shot a specific way on camera to maintain their presence and aura. A lot of the most recent dalek episodes do a poor job of this and often remove the intimidating camera angles.
One thing I noticed in this story is the character acting of the Daleks. In many scenes you can see subtle movements from them that show what they are thinking and provide greater subtext. When The Doctor agrees to go with them after they attack Hooverville and he starts screaming at Sec, Thay goes to move in between him and Sec before Sec responds with how "the deaths were wrong". There's the amount of times the other three look at each other whenever Sec says something they don't fully agree with and of course that one scene where Caan asks Jast (I think it is, if I'm wrong let me know) if he has doubts about following Sec, Jast turns his dome 180 as if looking over his shoulder which is an unfamiliar action to see a Dalek make but it works so damn well. They did such a good job with the movements, filming and even sound design of these Daleks which easily makes them and this story one of my favourite New Who Dalek stories.
8:26 I see what you did there. I really enjoy Manhattan and Evolution. You can really feel Sec struggling to do the job he was given. His almost single-ha... single-plungered attempt to ensure the Daleks continue in some form, while the rest of the Cult question his reasoning at every available opportunity. Especially because Sec knows he's right and the rest of the Cult's single-track way of thinking hasn't got them anywhere for however long the Daleks were stuck in the early 20th century. I don't think there was a Dalek more intelligent or had more foresight or indeed hindsight than Sec. It took Caan being driven insane going into the Time War to make him see what the Daleks are, but Sec saw the problem with the Daleks without any external influence. And while Daleks may learn from a strategic perspective, Sec saw their continual defeats as something significantly more deep-rooted than just weapons malfunction or poor tactics.
This two parter offers something else too. We were this close to seeing the resurrection of the Kaleds. Think about it, had Sec got his way with the final experiment, then the Kaleds would essentially have been born again.
Maybe if the episode had actually said that the hybrid plan was to use Human DNA to restore the Kaled race then maybe it would have sold the plan more. But it's not on screen is it? New who spent two seasons telling us how Dalek casings were invincible forcefield equipped flying tanks that helped make the creatures inside almost invincible and then suddenly their plan is to give all of that up for some reason. There's no logical motivation on screen. From the outset it's a plan which is very obviously going to go badly wrong.
The first RTD theme had an interesting theme of Daleks having their belief systems challenged. Metaltron gained humanity and responded with self-loathing and horror. The Emperor's new Daleks were born from humanity and doubled down on their own fascist zealotry to compensate for their shame. Sec realized the futility of it all and died to break his kind out of their self-destructive cycle. And finally there's Caan, who's given total perspective and echoes the War Doctor: NO. MORE
This is another perfect example of the sadness of a Dalek finding his way only for it to be lost. Honestly, Sec and Caan are my two favorite daleks for this reason.
I rewatch these stories whenever I’m in a doctor who mood, I think it characterises the Daleks great and I think only having 4 Daleks was really clever!
this two-parter is actually my favorite dalek story in general, and pretty much every reason why was laid out in this video. i even like tallulah because the contrast of being an actual character versus her caricature-like presentation is very endearing to me and goes well with the 50's B-movie vibe the story is going for. and dalek sec's struggle with humanity, on top of being compelling all on its own, resonated a lot with me since i'm autistic, and as a child routinely felt i wasn't a "real" person. the story just clicks with me on every level - a loving pastiche of cheesy 50's sci-fi, well-rounded supporting cast who play into the larger themes of the episode, and the daleks (who are already my favorite baddies for a number of reasons!) being treated as actual CHARACTERS.
i never understood why people didnt like this story. it was genuinely quite good. i just wish we got a few more episodes with the cult, that way they could be a little bit more memorable overall. sec remains my favourite dalek because he was willing to look outside of the box and be the cleverest dalek. and his human hybrid design isnt as bad as a lot of people say, ive seen a lot worse on this show both classic and modern.
Disclaimer: I haven't watched this since the original airing but I'm about to. ...For sure it doesn't help that the prosthetics had such a goofy design. But even if the design had been better it felt like the episode really didn't do enough to sell the idea of the hybrid plan. From the outset the hybrid sounds like a terrible plan (from the dalek perspective) and it turns out indeed to be a terrible plan (again from the dalek perspective). So I think that's the biggest problem with the story. The plot has the daleks doing a horrible nonsensical thing which then goes horribly wrong for them. It tends to undermine them as a serious threat when the whole 2-parter basically felt like watching them screw up and fight amongst themselves for no good reason. It will be interesting if I see it any differently when re-watching.
Sec's conversation with the Doctor is one of my favourite Dalek moments along with the Dalek in series 1. Sec's change reminds me so much of Gharman and Ronson from Genesis of the Daleks.
I've always loved this episode. Personally, I see it as a tribute to the tragedy of the Daleks' nature. As the Doctor says, Sec was the best possible thing to happen to the Dalek race, and they murdered him.
"Instead he squandered the gift of humanity and it took an evil alien overlord devouring his body and merging with what remained of him with itself in order of those aspects of his humanity to be properly expressed." 🤣🤣🤣
YES!! Thank you!! Everything here is golden. You even mentioned the soundtrack, which is still my favorite soundtrack of all the Dalek stories. I’ve always headcanoned that the Sec hybrid’s goodness came from Sec’s soul with Diagoras’s brain chemistry. Even though Sec probably already had extreme freedom from his Cortex Vault to allow him to be creative, his brain was likely already chemically trained by it from the time before he was Dalek Sec, if that makes any sense. Thus, with new slightly altered brain-chemistry combined with some good-ol human biology and extra neuron transmitters, stuff that he was already known for (being fair to other Daleks despite rank, humility despite being the most successful commander of his time period) really got to take hold. Plus, that thing he does in these episodes, where he bobs his eyestalk as he speaks. I have yet to figure out why they did that behind the scenes, so I’ve always put that down to be a nervous habit of Sec’s. Plus, Talulah’s character is actually really cool!! A nontraditional female supporting character! She’s loud, annoying, states exactly what she means, she isn’t the typical lady character. Yet, Lazlo loves her, and she has a very successful cabaret performance career. She stands up to the Daleks! She performs an active role in saving the day and rescues Lazlo. She’s another deep aspect of what the Daleks don’t have: comedy and love. The song she performs, “My Angel Put the Devil in Me,” is symbolic in a really funny way about the Daleks, the Daleks being both the angel and the devil. God. I love this episode. I’ve heard complaints about racism being a massive problem in America during the 1920s that this episode kinda swept under the rug, but it’s easy for us Americans to look at it through an American lens and forget that this is a TV show airing on the BBC. And also, they can’t seem to keep track of which Dalek is which when they’re not all in the same shot, which is annoying. The Sec hybrid design was annoying to me when I was kid. I grew up, and now I really like the design. What membrane exactly does Sec project out of his body to absorb Diagoras? That process really must have been horrific for both Sec and Diagoras and I’ve glad we didn’t have to see it. I think it’s funny that hybrid Sec emerges in fetal position. Those are my musings.
I enjoyed watching DiM and EotD when they first aired, although I didn't notice much of the smaller details at the time. Back then I would probably like Sec the most, but it may be mainly due to him being easily recognisable and memorable due to its casing being so distinct instead of all the other things.
I couldn’t agree more. I absolutely love this story, while it isn’t perfect in anyway, to me it is a beautiful homage to science 🧬 fiction and you can say what you will about the episodes but they are beautifully written. My favourite aspect of this story is how it bridges the positive and also negative similarities between humans and daleks. When you think about it the only difference between humans and daleks is the fact that they only feel hatred and fear of anything that isn’t remotely like them. However that being said this trait can still be seen in certain human groups such as the Nazis, KKK etc. I would also like to give Helen raynor massive props for beautiful characterisation of the daleks in this story, something the new series lacks a bit and has become a bit of a problem. She gives each of the daleks a unique destinct personality. Sec is the voice of reason throughout the duration of the story, pleading with his comrades to evolve. Caan represents the conniving second in command who is cautious and disdainful of the plan from the beginning, eventually usurping their leader, having become completely insane and blinded by his hubris. Thay represents the disobedient dalek who questions the orders of his leader believing it to be very un “dalek” and he is again killed by his blind hubris. Jast simply represents the obedient soldier who worships, praises and idolises the dalek cause like it is a law everyone must obey or be terminated. My favourite member of the cult is probably Sec, I love how wise and insightful he becomes during the battling struggle between dalek genetics and human emotions. And I love how even before sec becomes the hybrid he is still not entirely dalek, while he still retains the commanding presence, he is much wiser, insightful and compassionate to his comrades than the standard daleks. Even the doctor admits that this is the closest thing he would ever receive to friendship with the daleks, making him more distraught when sec sacrifices himself to save the Doctor. You can physically feel the pain and agony that runs through sec as he is being exterminated by the very weapon he once possessed which makes me more emotional every time he dies. I must agree with the Doctors statement of sec being the cleverest dalek ever as well as the wisest, being the only dalek in history to try and point his race towards the path of peace and prosperity, rather than violence, death, chaos and destruction. This makes dalek sec the perfect contrast to Davros seeing the flaws in his creators ideology. I also have to address that I never hated the design of the sec-Human hybrid and still don’t, it’s very cool and alien with human like qualities. I must admit nostalgia also has a slight part to play in my enjoyment of this story because, I would watch it a lot when I was younger, as it was a sort of comfort story for me and it still is. I will admit having grown up and begun writing stories of my own I have started to notice more errors in the story of the episodes, however as a writer myself I can still love and appreciate the characterisation, setting and cast of the story. So overall to me this is a great story that deserves more praise than it receives I give it a 18.5/20. I would absolutely love to write my own doctor who story some day (specifically dalek) who nose 👃 eh perhaps some day I will who nose 👃... xx
A part of this story I really like is when a Dalek passes the Doctor and he says "They always survive while I lose everything." It's such a good line, and David Tennant delivers it so well. The RTD era really captured the Doctor's trauma from seeing his home planet destroyed in a war with the Daleks and trying in vain to destroy them once and for all, only to destroy his race in the process and for the Daleks to survive.
This two parter is genuinely one of my favorite two parters out of Doctor Who’s entire history. I love Daleks, and I think this episode explores what a Dalek is better than any other.
I have multiple plausible ways they could bring Sec back and reintroduce him as a temporary companion to the doctor. He was a great character and seriously underrated :/
Well, at the very least, this outting in New York was a good opportunity for a team building exercise between myself, Dalek Caan and Dalek Jast. If only Dalek Sec had heeded my warning before he merged with the human.
One critizism I do have is by the time Dalek Caan terminated the human-daleks, Thay and Jast were destroyed; what took him so long? Eh, maybe it took him a bit to figure that out, so I digress, because as a whole, this is a pretty underrated story :)
Caan probably didn't even consider that Jast and Thay _could_ have been defeated by the Hybrids. It's likely that he shared Jast and Thay's hubris and arrogance in their ability to wipe out the Hybrids with their own weaponry, only resorting to using the destruct signal when he realised just how wrong he and the other two were. It would fit well with their characterisation, so blindingly assured of their own superiority that they don't consider their own dangerous creations, effectively made in their own image, to be capable of even touching them.
@@darkarpatron who else do we know who created dangerous beings in his own image who turned on him after he didnt consider the danger to himself? like father like sons, or in this case like mad scientist like mad mutant cyborg space nazis huh davros?
This story is, without any doubt, far superior as a Cult of Skaro story than _Doomsday_ We’re told in _Doomsday_ that the Cult is meant to ‘think like the enemy thinks’, but they do very little in that story that regular Daleks don’t. They just shoot their enemies until they die and release an army of more Daleks. The most unusual thing they do is give the Cybermen and Rose sass. In contrast, _Evolution of the Daleks_ has the Cult splicing their own DNA with that of human beings, defying Dalek imperatives in the name of survival. It’s mostly Sec who does this, sure, but the others seemed to be hesitantly onboard with the idea until Sec’s humanity started asserting itself. It’s possible that they would have still been deferent enough to his command to absorb Martha and other human prisoners at the start of part 2 and turn themselves into hybrids as well, but, unfortunately, the Doctor helped the prisoners escape, giving Thay, Jast, and Caan enough time to have ideas of rebellion…
So my usual quippiness aside, this is my favourite Doctor Who story of all time, and the main reason for me engaging with the fandom at all, Sec absolutely topping the metaphorical cake. When, as a little teen, I first started talking to other Whovians, I was genuinely kind of hurt that it was so maligned. I felt like a total black sheep (or Dalek in this case) 😅. I understand and can take people's criticism of it. Everyone has a right to their opinions, and they're pretty valid. But I'm also glad that more and more people are coming around to liking it, and this vid perfectly expresses the way I've felt about it since it first aired. Very eloquently put!
The Cult’s role in this 2 parter reminded me of the wildebeest from “The Wild” (Sec representing Kazar and the rest of the cult representing Blag and the other wildebeests.)In Blag’s words for the Cult’s mutiny: “We’re tired of pretending to be something we’re not. But most of all, we’re tired of you.”
I love that Dalek Thay is the one to instigate the fight with the dalek humans, mirroring how he was the first Dalek to kill Cybermen when the two species meet in Doomsday. He is consistently the most battle-ready and I love that attention to detail. Thay is my favourite cult member for that reason.
“Everything about this episode screams sci fi B-movie.” I agree. Heck, I would take that even further and argue that Doctor Who as a whole is like that. Technobabble, nonsensical plots, over-the-top, larger than life characters. And monsters. Always monsters. It’s ironic. Sydney Newman didn’t want bug-eyed monsters, but that’s exactly what the show is known for I think. I’d argue that Doctor Who (especially Classic Who but you can definitely see elements of it in the modern show) is totally B-horror/ sci-fi. At least, that’s what I’ve always seen in it as a fan of those things. I love monster movies, so Doctor Who’s monsters appeal to me. I guess not everyone sees it that way.
Apprarently according to the dalek combat manual, the time lords in their guile and conniving plan to extract the hybrid sec from his timeline and recruit him to fight against the daleks, i considered that one of the dirtiest tactics ever devised, you simply do not do that. Poaching is unethical no matter what common attributes you share, i do worry if the time lords might torture him if the wrong ones got their hands on him, good greif that hybrid is sooo vulnerable, one stab to the brain would be the end. Please sec stay in your casing dont desert it I do wander what happened to secs empty casing, we know torchwood somehow got their hands on the dalek tommy guns probably through auction on the black market, in this timeline it does feel more likely that van statten could've gotten hold of secs casing as well as the metaltron, that would be such an awkward encounter for the metaltron to see this mythologocial dalek devoid of its mutant all empty
I've said it once, and I'll say it again, Evolution is one of my favourite episodes of the RTD Dalek stories. The contrast between the Sec Hybrid's more compassionate side and the rest of the Cult's ruthless nature really highlights how different the Daleks are personality wise from humans. Sec trying to futilely reason against the Daleks' nature near the end of the story shows just how human he has become. Meanwhile, Thay and Jast throw their lives away in a futile gunfight because of their self-perceived superiority that they will always defeat beings lesser than them.
The one thing that sorta bothers me about Sec’s human form is how symmetrical it was. Almost every time we see the Daleks real bodies in the show they are grotesque, often having shriveled up facial features around their one eye. I think if sec had one eye and one empty eye socket or something like that I would have loved his design
The simple way to resolve the issue was for Sec to convert the rest of the cult to be hybrids like him. That way they couldn’t object since they wouldn’t be pure daleks anymore either.
That was the plan originally, but the Doctor interfered and freed the high-intelligence captives. Presumably, Martha, Frank and the guy with the glasses would have been the hosts for Caan, Thay and Jast had the experiment gone to plan
I actually loved this episode and watching this really shows how good the eps were. It would be nice to get more individual personalitys from the different daleks.
Wholeheartedly agreed. “Tallulah with 3 L’s & an H” is still a meme in my family. Modern DW wishes it could have practical effects like Human Sec and the Pig Slaves. Gorgeous. The closest it came was Tim Shaw. Side note: did you intentionally mispronounce Diagoras to get comments? Come on now…😂
It didn't actually occur to me that I'd mispronounced Diagoras, I've always pronounced it that way but when I think about it it's not how any of the characters say the name in the episode
@@dalekbumps 😂😂 I thought it was funny. I’m just glad you didn’t say “it’s my accent/dialect” because I’m pretty sure you and I are from the same neck of the woods but could be wrong.
One thing this episode does, at least to me, is return the Daleks to the roots of their design, being a representation of the Nazis, the Daleks in this episode act like Nazi doctors (ones present in concentration camps), conducting horrific experiments so that they can further their cause and build an army, much like some of the experiments at Auschwitz.
Yeah, this episode reminded me the most of their nazi purist roots in classic Who. Even down to their eventual downfall, where they kill the person capable of improving them as they don’t see him as one of them, they break out into infighting over purity in their own race, and end up even closer to extinction as a result
Dalek Sec is absolutely my favorite Dalek in no small part due to this actually! (And in part due to his sass lol) I can't believe how much of what I love about/in this show os apparently unpopular. :/
I really want to like this story, it has a lot of redeeming features. The vibes are absolutely spot on, but I think it's definetly held back by Modern Who's necessity to 1 or 2 45 minute episodes, and it feels rushed. How long were the Cult stuck in 1930? It seems like it could only be a few months at most, but the sheer scale of the infastructure they've built, it seems like it could be literally years. I wish we had the time to see more debate between the Cult members, or Sec's realisation about Dalek superiority. It's not often I say this, but I do think more time would massively benefit this story through more episodes, or a novelisation like we got for most of the Classic episodes.
I really liked this 2 part episodes (more evolution of the daleks than daleks in Manhattan though) but i may agree it's the less good of all the daleks episodes in rtd era, simply because imo all daleks episodes in rtd era are absolutely great and deserves at least a 8.5/10 while i give this 2 part a 7 or 7.5/10. Still pretty good
Love the story. It's just a shame that they kept messing up the name tags they came up with. It's a detail they even included on the action figures. I've only recently learned its because only Sec and Just could rotate their heads remotely, Caan and They were more limited in head movement.
Yeah I fully never understood the unpopularity of this story. I get the American accents and annoying side-characters, but the portrayal of the Daleks and their self-defeating ideology is some of the strongest characterisation the Modern Who Daleks have had
I can't say I agree 100%, but this is a good defense of a story that has more ideas than people give it credit for. I'm curious about how you feel about it vs Evil of the Daleks as far as the story's primary theme goes, or Big Finish's jabs at the same subject (Jubilee most notably) I'd also add there's a funny bit of (possible) subtext in this story which I’m not entirely sure was intentional - the Daleks using dispossessed victims of the Great Depression as foot soldiers and ultimately disposable tools kinda fits with their nature as space fascists, like how the fascist parties took advantage of people in the Depression years to rise to power in the real world
I think the story is top notch, in terms of theme. However several issues such as the Human Hybrids being not very Dalek like despite the Cult freaking out over purity throughout the story arc and then the fact they arm these Human Hybrids with weapons capable of killing the cult which seems so dumb. Just give them cyber lasers, powerful enough to wipe the humans out but if they should turn on there Dalek masters then no worries. But beyond those two issues, the themes the episodes are using and it parallel with Genesis of the Daleks is really awesome and in my opinion outweigh the flaws. I'd personally rank them as my third favourite Dalek story arc in the Russel era behind Dalek and bad wolf/the parting of wars.
I genuinely think it was a mistake wiping out the cult of skaro entirely in this 2 parter honestly. Especially with them not doing anything like them since.
There's a sort of fridge brilliance to how the Daleks are portrayed here. The Daleks are a Nazi allegory, right? Well, a key component of Nazism and fascism in general is the idea of a society's "return" to a greater point in history. It would make sense for Daleks to be purists, not allowing inferior mutants into their ranks, but the problem with the modern Daleks is they never evolve. Wouldn't it make more sense for the fascistic Daleks to desire to return to the former glory of the Kaled Empire?This was even addressed in Power of the Doctor. A Dalek betrays its own kind over this plot hole! Now to be clear, this wouldn't be like the Cybermen. The Daleks aren't upgrading. It's a downgrade, a regression to an idealized version of the past. It's nostalgia. And this is a show about time travel, so they should explore what Nazis would do with that power! If I were let into the writer's room, I'd suggest they go with this angle: An episode where the Daleks attempt to restore the former glory of the Kaled Empire, either through time travel or genetic experimentation. The Doctor then realizes that as deadly as the Daleks are, the Kaleds returning would be much worse. Because they can climb stairs, obviously.
I always thought the weakest Russel T Davies Dalek story was the end of Season 4 two parter as it brings back so many Daleks & feels like a kinda worse version of the story Parting of the ways. Its still a great story but it just feels like the weakest which is to say there is no bad Dalek episodes in this series just slightly weaker ones.
I didn't like the pig slaves, and I felt Sec should've emerged looking fully human with Sec's mind, rather than with the embarassing makeup we got. That said, it's one of the best Dalek stories of modern Who. The Daleks are shown as characters in their own right, and really feels like 60s Who with Daleks talking to each other.
Brilliantly put. In some ways, this is my favourite Dalek story. Sec turns to humanity when watching the Cult attack hooverville and then goes on to say Davros was wrong to remove their emotions, pity and sense of what is right, but he starts questioning the Dalek purpose and belief before he even mutates. The scene where the Cult debate the Dalek ideology is one of my favourites with the Daleks.
It's weird to think that an alien war machine has thoughts and opinions that differ from its brethren.
it's the reason why it's one of my favorite episodes
I think something worth praise in these episodes is how well the daleks are filmed. It goes unspoken a lot but I feel like the daleks need to be shot a specific way on camera like Darth Vader needs to be shot a specific way on camera to maintain their presence and aura. A lot of the most recent dalek episodes do a poor job of this and often remove the intimidating camera angles.
definitely, the shots of sec as diagoras approaches him for the first time are very unnerving
One thing I noticed in this story is the character acting of the Daleks.
In many scenes you can see subtle movements from them that show what they are thinking and provide greater subtext. When The Doctor agrees to go with them after they attack Hooverville and he starts screaming at Sec, Thay goes to move in between him and Sec before Sec responds with how "the deaths were wrong". There's the amount of times the other three look at each other whenever Sec says something they don't fully agree with and of course that one scene where Caan asks Jast (I think it is, if I'm wrong let me know) if he has doubts about following Sec, Jast turns his dome 180 as if looking over his shoulder which is an unfamiliar action to see a Dalek make but it works so damn well.
They did such a good job with the movements, filming and even sound design of these Daleks which easily makes them and this story one of my favourite New Who Dalek stories.
8:26
I see what you did there.
I really enjoy Manhattan and Evolution. You can really feel Sec struggling to do the job he was given. His almost single-ha... single-plungered attempt to ensure the Daleks continue in some form, while the rest of the Cult question his reasoning at every available opportunity. Especially because Sec knows he's right and the rest of the Cult's single-track way of thinking hasn't got them anywhere for however long the Daleks were stuck in the early 20th century.
I don't think there was a Dalek more intelligent or had more foresight or indeed hindsight than Sec. It took Caan being driven insane going into the Time War to make him see what the Daleks are, but Sec saw the problem with the Daleks without any external influence.
And while Daleks may learn from a strategic perspective, Sec saw their continual defeats as something significantly more deep-rooted than just weapons malfunction or poor tactics.
This two parter offers something else too. We were this close to seeing the resurrection of the Kaleds. Think about it, had Sec got his way with the final experiment, then the Kaleds would essentially have been born again.
Maybe if the episode had actually said that the hybrid plan was to use Human DNA to restore the Kaled race then maybe it would have sold the plan more. But it's not on screen is it? New who spent two seasons telling us how Dalek casings were invincible forcefield equipped flying tanks that helped make the creatures inside almost invincible and then suddenly their plan is to give all of that up for some reason. There's no logical motivation on screen. From the outset it's a plan which is very obviously going to go badly wrong.
The first RTD theme had an interesting theme of Daleks having their belief systems challenged. Metaltron gained humanity and responded with self-loathing and horror. The Emperor's new Daleks were born from humanity and doubled down on their own fascist zealotry to compensate for their shame. Sec realized the futility of it all and died to break his kind out of their self-destructive cycle. And finally there's Caan, who's given total perspective and echoes the War Doctor: NO. MORE
This is another perfect example of the sadness of a Dalek finding his way only for it to be lost. Honestly, Sec and Caan are my two favorite daleks for this reason.
I agree 100%. I love this 2 parter. Truly underrated. This story shows the Daleks at their best in terms of characterization.
I rewatch these stories whenever I’m in a doctor who mood, I think it characterises the Daleks great and I think only having 4 Daleks was really clever!
this two-parter is actually my favorite dalek story in general, and pretty much every reason why was laid out in this video. i even like tallulah because the contrast of being an actual character versus her caricature-like presentation is very endearing to me and goes well with the 50's B-movie vibe the story is going for. and dalek sec's struggle with humanity, on top of being compelling all on its own, resonated a lot with me since i'm autistic, and as a child routinely felt i wasn't a "real" person. the story just clicks with me on every level - a loving pastiche of cheesy 50's sci-fi, well-rounded supporting cast who play into the larger themes of the episode, and the daleks (who are already my favorite baddies for a number of reasons!) being treated as actual CHARACTERS.
Yeah, not being funny but NO ONE comes for my girl Tallulah! She's a badass.
Not only is this in my top 5 New Series Dalek stories, it also the first Doctor Who episode I ever watched
i never understood why people didnt like this story. it was genuinely quite good. i just wish we got a few more episodes with the cult, that way they could be a little bit more memorable overall.
sec remains my favourite dalek because he was willing to look outside of the box and be the cleverest dalek. and his human hybrid design isnt as bad as a lot of people say, ive seen a lot worse on this show both classic and modern.
I think people hyperfocused on the bad looking prosthetics, and ignored the actual writing.
Fully agree with that, as a kid the Cult of Skaro were my favourite characters - and this two parter was (and still is) my favourite episode.
Disclaimer: I haven't watched this since the original airing but I'm about to.
...For sure it doesn't help that the prosthetics had such a goofy design. But even if the design had been better it felt like the episode really didn't do enough to sell the idea of the hybrid plan. From the outset the hybrid sounds like a terrible plan (from the dalek perspective) and it turns out indeed to be a terrible plan (again from the dalek perspective). So I think that's the biggest problem with the story. The plot has the daleks doing a horrible nonsensical thing which then goes horribly wrong for them. It tends to undermine them as a serious threat when the whole 2-parter basically felt like watching them screw up and fight amongst themselves for no good reason.
It will be interesting if I see it any differently when re-watching.
Sec's conversation with the Doctor is one of my favourite Dalek moments along with the Dalek in series 1. Sec's change reminds me so much of Gharman and Ronson from Genesis of the Daleks.
I loved how Sec craved Wisdom from the Doctor, Knowing he was New in this Galaxy.
The other thing I love about this is we see a different side to the Daleks. Heck in part one they don’t say “Exterminate” once.
I've always loved this episode. Personally, I see it as a tribute to the tragedy of the Daleks' nature. As the Doctor says, Sec was the best possible thing to happen to the Dalek race, and they murdered him.
"Instead he squandered the gift of humanity and it took an evil alien overlord devouring his body and merging with what remained of him with itself in order of those aspects of his humanity to be properly expressed." 🤣🤣🤣
YES!! Thank you!! Everything here is golden. You even mentioned the soundtrack, which is still my favorite soundtrack of all the Dalek stories.
I’ve always headcanoned that the Sec hybrid’s goodness came from Sec’s soul with Diagoras’s brain chemistry. Even though Sec probably already had extreme freedom from his Cortex Vault to allow him to be creative, his brain was likely already chemically trained by it from the time before he was Dalek Sec, if that makes any sense. Thus, with new slightly altered brain-chemistry combined with some good-ol human biology and extra neuron transmitters, stuff that he was already known for (being fair to other Daleks despite rank, humility despite being the most successful commander of his time period) really got to take hold. Plus, that thing he does in these episodes, where he bobs his eyestalk as he speaks. I have yet to figure out why they did that behind the scenes, so I’ve always put that down to be a nervous habit of Sec’s.
Plus, Talulah’s character is actually really cool!! A nontraditional female supporting character! She’s loud, annoying, states exactly what she means, she isn’t the typical lady character. Yet, Lazlo loves her, and she has a very successful cabaret performance career. She stands up to the Daleks! She performs an active role in saving the day and rescues Lazlo. She’s another deep aspect of what the Daleks don’t have: comedy and love. The song she performs, “My Angel Put the Devil in Me,” is symbolic in a really funny way about the Daleks, the Daleks being both the angel and the devil.
God. I love this episode. I’ve heard complaints about racism being a massive problem in America during the 1920s that this episode kinda swept under the rug, but it’s easy for us Americans to look at it through an American lens and forget that this is a TV show airing on the BBC. And also, they can’t seem to keep track of which Dalek is which when they’re not all in the same shot, which is annoying. The Sec hybrid design was annoying to me when I was kid. I grew up, and now I really like the design. What membrane exactly does Sec project out of his body to absorb Diagoras? That process really must have been horrific for both Sec and Diagoras and I’ve glad we didn’t have to see it. I think it’s funny that hybrid Sec emerges in fetal position. Those are my musings.
I'd love to know why Sec's eyestalk moves up and down as well.
Yeah the soundtrack is addictive
I couldn't agree more with that proper justification
I enjoyed watching DiM and EotD when they first aired, although I didn't notice much of the smaller details at the time. Back then I would probably like Sec the most, but it may be mainly due to him being easily recognisable and memorable due to its casing being so distinct instead of all the other things.
one of the best 2 parters ever with the daleks...and empire state buliding of course!
I couldn’t agree more. I absolutely love this story, while it isn’t perfect in anyway, to me it is a beautiful homage to science 🧬 fiction and you can say what you will about the episodes but they are beautifully written. My favourite aspect of this story is how it bridges the positive and also negative similarities between humans and daleks. When you think about it the only difference between humans and daleks is the fact that they only feel hatred and fear of anything that isn’t remotely like them. However that being said this trait can still be seen in certain human groups such as the Nazis, KKK etc. I would also like to give Helen raynor massive props for beautiful characterisation of the daleks in this story, something the new series lacks a bit and has become a bit of a problem. She gives each of the daleks a unique destinct personality. Sec is the voice of reason throughout the duration of the story, pleading with his comrades to evolve. Caan represents the conniving second in command who is cautious and disdainful of the plan from the beginning, eventually usurping their leader, having become completely insane and blinded by his hubris. Thay represents the disobedient dalek who questions the orders of his leader believing it to be very un “dalek” and he is again killed by his blind hubris. Jast simply represents the obedient soldier who worships, praises and idolises the dalek cause like it is a law everyone must obey or be terminated. My favourite member of the cult is probably Sec, I love how wise and insightful he becomes during the battling struggle between dalek genetics and human emotions. And I love how even before sec becomes the hybrid he is still not entirely dalek, while he still retains the commanding presence, he is much wiser, insightful and compassionate to his comrades than the standard daleks. Even the doctor admits that this is the closest thing he would ever receive to friendship with the daleks, making him more distraught when sec sacrifices himself to save the Doctor. You can physically feel the pain and agony that runs through sec as he is being exterminated by the very weapon he once possessed which makes me more emotional every time he dies. I must agree with the Doctors statement of sec being the cleverest dalek ever as well as the wisest, being the only dalek in history to try and point his race towards the path of peace and prosperity, rather than violence, death, chaos and destruction. This makes dalek sec the perfect contrast to Davros seeing the flaws in his creators ideology. I also have to address that I never hated the design of the sec-Human hybrid and still don’t, it’s very cool and alien with human like qualities. I must admit nostalgia also has a slight part to play in my enjoyment of this story because, I would watch it a lot when I was younger, as it was a sort of comfort story for me and it still is. I will admit having grown up and begun writing stories of my own I have started to notice more errors in the story of the episodes, however as a writer myself I can still love and appreciate the characterisation, setting and cast of the story. So overall to me this is a great story that deserves more praise than it receives I give it a 18.5/20.
I would absolutely love to write my own doctor who story some day (specifically dalek) who nose 👃 eh perhaps some day I will who nose 👃... xx
8:26 If there is ever an episode called "The Plight of the Daleks" you'll just have predicted a trifecta.
My favourite part of the whole soundtrack is definitely the music that plays as the Doctor runs from the Daleks after disrupting them with the radio.
A part of this story I really like is when a Dalek passes the Doctor and he says "They always survive while I lose everything."
It's such a good line, and David Tennant delivers it so well. The RTD era really captured the Doctor's trauma from seeing his home planet destroyed in a war with the Daleks and trying in vain to destroy them once and for all, only to destroy his race in the process and for the Daleks to survive.
This two parter is genuinely one of my favorite two parters out of Doctor Who’s entire history. I love Daleks, and I think this episode explores what a Dalek is better than any other.
I have multiple plausible ways they could bring Sec back and reintroduce him as a temporary companion to the doctor. He was a great character and seriously underrated :/
Daleks in Manhattan and Evolution of the Daleks are probably my favourite dalek episodes after the Stolen Earth Two parter and Dalek.
Great review
I wish sec didn’t die. Would have been really cool to see him as a returning character
00:39 really it’s one of my favourite doctor who episodes.
Well, at the very least, this outting in New York was a good opportunity for a team building exercise between myself, Dalek Caan and Dalek Jast. If only Dalek Sec had heeded my warning before he merged with the human.
Yesss keep the Daleks in Manhattan appreciation coming!!!
The music you use in the background of this video… anyone else hear the sound made when you pick up an item in the PS1 game Nightmare Creatures?
One critizism I do have is by the time Dalek Caan terminated the human-daleks, Thay and Jast were destroyed; what took him so long? Eh, maybe it took him a bit to figure that out, so I digress, because as a whole, this is a pretty underrated story :)
Caan probably didn't even consider that Jast and Thay _could_ have been defeated by the Hybrids. It's likely that he shared Jast and Thay's hubris and arrogance in their ability to wipe out the Hybrids with their own weaponry, only resorting to using the destruct signal when he realised just how wrong he and the other two were.
It would fit well with their characterisation, so blindingly assured of their own superiority that they don't consider their own dangerous creations, effectively made in their own image, to be capable of even touching them.
@@darkarpatron who else do we know who created dangerous beings in his own image who turned on him after he didnt consider the danger to himself?
like father like sons, or in this case like mad scientist like mad mutant cyborg space nazis huh davros?
This story is, without any doubt, far superior as a Cult of Skaro story than _Doomsday_
We’re told in _Doomsday_ that the Cult is meant to ‘think like the enemy thinks’, but they do very little in that story that regular Daleks don’t. They just shoot their enemies until they die and release an army of more Daleks. The most unusual thing they do is give the Cybermen and Rose sass.
In contrast, _Evolution of the Daleks_ has the Cult splicing their own DNA with that of human beings, defying Dalek imperatives in the name of survival. It’s mostly Sec who does this, sure, but the others seemed to be hesitantly onboard with the idea until Sec’s humanity started asserting itself.
It’s possible that they would have still been deferent enough to his command to absorb Martha and other human prisoners at the start of part 2 and turn themselves into hybrids as well, but, unfortunately, the Doctor helped the prisoners escape, giving Thay, Jast, and Caan enough time to have ideas of rebellion…
Wait people don’t like it? It’s always been one of my favorites!
I do like it a fair amount tbf
So my usual quippiness aside, this is my favourite Doctor Who story of all time, and the main reason for me engaging with the fandom at all, Sec absolutely topping the metaphorical cake. When, as a little teen, I first started talking to other Whovians, I was genuinely kind of hurt that it was so maligned. I felt like a total black sheep (or Dalek in this case) 😅. I understand and can take people's criticism of it. Everyone has a right to their opinions, and they're pretty valid. But I'm also glad that more and more people are coming around to liking it, and this vid perfectly expresses the way I've felt about it since it first aired. Very eloquently put!
The Cult’s role in this 2 parter reminded me of the wildebeest from “The Wild” (Sec representing Kazar and the rest of the cult representing Blag and the other wildebeests.)In Blag’s words for the Cult’s mutiny: “We’re tired of pretending to be something we’re not. But most of all, we’re tired of you.”
I like Daleks in Manhattan and Evolution of the Daleks
I love that Dalek Thay is the one to instigate the fight with the dalek humans, mirroring how he was the first Dalek to kill Cybermen when the two species meet in Doomsday.
He is consistently the most battle-ready and I love that attention to detail. Thay is my favourite cult member for that reason.
In all fairness, Dalek Sec in humanoid form looked extraordinarily bad
“Everything about this episode screams sci fi B-movie.”
I agree. Heck, I would take that even further and argue that Doctor Who as a whole is like that. Technobabble, nonsensical plots, over-the-top, larger than life characters. And monsters. Always monsters. It’s ironic. Sydney Newman didn’t want bug-eyed monsters, but that’s exactly what the show is known for I think. I’d argue that Doctor Who (especially Classic Who but you can definitely see elements of it in the modern show) is totally B-horror/ sci-fi. At least, that’s what I’ve always seen in it as a fan of those things. I love monster movies, so Doctor Who’s monsters appeal to me. I guess not everyone sees it that way.
Apprarently according to the dalek combat manual, the time lords in their guile and conniving plan to extract the hybrid sec from his timeline and recruit him to fight against the daleks, i considered that one of the dirtiest tactics ever devised, you simply do not do that. Poaching is unethical no matter what common attributes you share, i do worry if the time lords might torture him if the wrong ones got their hands on him, good greif that hybrid is sooo vulnerable, one stab to the brain would be the end. Please sec stay in your casing dont desert it
I do wander what happened to secs empty casing, we know torchwood somehow got their hands on the dalek tommy guns probably through auction on the black market, in this timeline it does feel more likely that van statten could've gotten hold of secs casing as well as the metaltron, that would be such an awkward encounter for the metaltron to see this mythologocial dalek devoid of its mutant all empty
I've said it once, and I'll say it again, Evolution is one of my favourite episodes of the RTD Dalek stories. The contrast between the Sec Hybrid's more compassionate side and the rest of the Cult's ruthless nature really highlights how different the Daleks are personality wise from humans.
Sec trying to futilely reason against the Daleks' nature near the end of the story shows just how human he has become. Meanwhile, Thay and Jast throw their lives away in a futile gunfight because of their self-perceived superiority that they will always defeat beings lesser than them.
Still got the dalek sec hybrid figure and the dalek thay from this. And this was on series 3 volume 2 and the complete third series.
Why did you have to remind me of the Dalek Parliament 😭
The one thing that sorta bothers me about Sec’s human form is how symmetrical it was. Almost every time we see the Daleks real bodies in the show they are grotesque, often having shriveled up facial features around their one eye. I think if sec had one eye and one empty eye socket or something like that I would have loved his design
The simple way to resolve the issue was for Sec to convert the rest of the cult to be hybrids like him. That way they couldn’t object since they wouldn’t be pure daleks anymore either.
That was the plan originally, but the Doctor interfered and freed the high-intelligence captives. Presumably, Martha, Frank and the guy with the glasses would have been the hosts for Caan, Thay and Jast had the experiment gone to plan
I actually loved this episode and watching this really shows how good the eps were. It would be nice to get more individual personalitys from the different daleks.
While the aesthetics are kind of odd (though perhaps this is the point) the theming and dalek characters are seriously on point.
Wholeheartedly agreed. “Tallulah with 3 L’s & an H” is still a meme in my family.
Modern DW wishes it could have practical effects like Human Sec and the Pig Slaves. Gorgeous. The closest it came was Tim Shaw.
Side note: did you intentionally mispronounce Diagoras to get comments? Come on now…😂
It didn't actually occur to me that I'd mispronounced Diagoras, I've always pronounced it that way but when I think about it it's not how any of the characters say the name in the episode
@@dalekbumps 😂😂 I thought it was funny. I’m just glad you didn’t say “it’s my accent/dialect” because I’m pretty sure you and I are from the same neck of the woods but could be wrong.
I like these longer indepth videos, good job.
One thing this episode does, at least to me, is return the Daleks to the roots of their design, being a representation of the Nazis, the Daleks in this episode act like Nazi doctors (ones present in concentration camps), conducting horrific experiments so that they can further their cause and build an army, much like some of the experiments at Auschwitz.
Yeah, this episode reminded me the most of their nazi purist roots in classic Who. Even down to their eventual downfall, where they kill the person capable of improving them as they don’t see him as one of them, they break out into infighting over purity in their own race, and end up even closer to extinction as a result
Dalek Sec is absolutely my favorite Dalek in no small part due to this actually! (And in part due to his sass lol)
I can't believe how much of what I love about/in this show os apparently unpopular. :/
I really want to like this story, it has a lot of redeeming features. The vibes are absolutely spot on, but I think it's definetly held back by Modern Who's necessity to 1 or 2 45 minute episodes, and it feels rushed. How long were the Cult stuck in 1930? It seems like it could only be a few months at most, but the sheer scale of the infastructure they've built, it seems like it could be literally years. I wish we had the time to see more debate between the Cult members, or Sec's realisation about Dalek superiority. It's not often I say this, but I do think more time would massively benefit this story through more episodes, or a novelisation like we got for most of the Classic episodes.
I really liked this 2 part episodes (more evolution of the daleks than daleks in Manhattan though) but i may agree it's the less good of all the daleks episodes in rtd era, simply because imo all daleks episodes in rtd era are absolutely great and deserves at least a 8.5/10 while i give this 2 part a 7 or 7.5/10. Still pretty good
This is one of my favorite dalek stories, and probably always will be, aside from the Stolen Earth/Journey's End
Love the story.
It's just a shame that they kept messing up the name tags they came up with. It's a detail they even included on the action figures.
I've only recently learned its because only Sec and Just could rotate their heads remotely, Caan and They were more limited in head movement.
Yeah I fully never understood the unpopularity of this story. I get the American accents and annoying side-characters, but the portrayal of the Daleks and their self-defeating ideology is some of the strongest characterisation the Modern Who Daleks have had
Don't really have any sympathy for Sec changing his ways after he kidnapped hundreds and turned them into empty shells
NO WAY!? THAT WAS CAPTAIN PANAKA!?!? How have I never known this?!?!? All this time!!!!
I think the dalek saying “the urge to kill is too strong” during the Hooverville assault in which sec cancels the attack.
I can't say I agree 100%, but this is a good defense of a story that has more ideas than people give it credit for. I'm curious about how you feel about it vs Evil of the Daleks as far as the story's primary theme goes, or Big Finish's jabs at the same subject (Jubilee most notably)
I'd also add there's a funny bit of (possible) subtext in this story which I’m not entirely sure was intentional - the Daleks using dispossessed victims of the Great Depression as foot soldiers and ultimately disposable tools kinda fits with their nature as space fascists, like how the fascist parties took advantage of people in the Depression years to rise to power in the real world
I think the story is top notch, in terms of theme. However several issues such as the Human Hybrids being not very Dalek like despite the Cult freaking out over purity throughout the story arc and then the fact they arm these Human Hybrids with weapons capable of killing the cult which seems so dumb. Just give them cyber lasers, powerful enough to wipe the humans out but if they should turn on there Dalek masters then no worries.
But beyond those two issues, the themes the episodes are using and it parallel with Genesis of the Daleks is really awesome and in my opinion outweigh the flaws. I'd personally rank them as my third favourite Dalek story arc in the Russel era behind Dalek and bad wolf/the parting of wars.
Man what if in series four Dalek Sec was the Doctors companion, that would have been so cool.
What happened to Dalek Sec's casing?
I've just finished scripting a video on that exact topic :)
@@dalekbumps can't wait.
I genuinely think it was a mistake wiping out the cult of skaro entirely in this 2 parter honestly. Especially with them not doing anything like them since.
this story > Magicians/Witches any day of the week
There's a sort of fridge brilliance to how the Daleks are portrayed here. The Daleks are a Nazi allegory, right? Well, a key component of Nazism and fascism in general is the idea of a society's "return" to a greater point in history. It would make sense for Daleks to be purists, not allowing inferior mutants into their ranks, but the problem with the modern Daleks is they never evolve. Wouldn't it make more sense for the fascistic Daleks to desire to return to the former glory of the Kaled Empire?This was even addressed in Power of the Doctor. A Dalek betrays its own kind over this plot hole! Now to be clear, this wouldn't be like the Cybermen. The Daleks aren't upgrading. It's a downgrade, a regression to an idealized version of the past. It's nostalgia. And this is a show about time travel, so they should explore what Nazis would do with that power! If I were let into the writer's room, I'd suggest they go with this angle: An episode where the Daleks attempt to restore the former glory of the Kaled Empire, either through time travel or genetic experimentation. The Doctor then realizes that as deadly as the Daleks are, the Kaleds returning would be much worse. Because they can climb stairs, obviously.
I always thought the weakest Russel T Davies Dalek story was the end of Season 4 two parter as it brings back so many Daleks & feels like a kinda worse version of the story Parting of the ways. Its still a great story but it just feels like the weakest which is to say there is no bad Dalek episodes in this series just slightly weaker ones.
Let’s al be honest … Dalek Human Sec is hot ❤😆😂
The good parts are exactly why this episode sucks; it’s squandered potential
I didn't like the pig slaves, and I felt Sec should've emerged looking fully human with Sec's mind, rather than with the embarassing makeup we got. That said, it's one of the best Dalek stories of modern Who. The Daleks are shown as characters in their own right, and really feels like 60s Who with Daleks talking to each other.