The *Actual* Problems With That Vegan Teacher (from a fellow vegan)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 22 май 2024
- Final installment in my series on videos on That Vegan Teacher.
Part 1: • iNabber Is Wrong About...
Part 2a: • D'Angelo Wallace Is Wr...
Part 2b: • Answering Your Critici...
Part 3: • The *Actual* Problems ...
0:00 - Intro
0:24 - Emotional vs objective arguments
2:21 - Dogmatic recklessness
6:10 - Racism
8:51 - Undermining effective activism
10:30 - Promoting pseudoscience and endangering kids
14:07 - Wacky moral claims
22:14 - Cringe is a non-issue
23:34 - Conclusion
TVT's response to me
• Response to Unnatural ...
I can't breathe song
• I Can't Breathe
Deontology vs consequentialism
pediaa.com/what-is-the-differ...
www.pagecentertraining.psu.ed...
Change your religion like you change your underwear
• Change your religion, ...
"I noticed you have dark skin"
• This virtue signaling ...
Kant on why we must not discriminate
www.sdjewishworld.com/2020/07...
Direct Action Everywhere
• Isaac Butterfield, Fre...
/ direct-action-leading-...
www.directactioneverywhere.co...
www.wired.com/story/direct-ac...
Freelee, "goodbye lupus"
• Isaac Butterfield, Fre...
www.tiktok.com/@thatveganteac...
Vegan activism is the moral baseline
www.directactioneverywhere.co...
Meat eaters are "horrible"
• Isaac Butterfield, Tha...
Vegetarianism is "terrible"
/ ckjeze3jpay
"nice white people"
www.npr.org/2020/06/09/873375...
Perfect & imperfect duties
static.cambridge.org/binary/v...
philosophy.stackexchange.com/...
Support an Effective Animal Charity
animalcharityevaluators.org/
Amazon Store Page: www.amazon.com/shop/unnatural...
Twitter: / unnaturalvegan
Instagram: / unnaturalvegan
Patreon: / unnaturalvegan
OnlyFans: onlyfans.com/unnaturalvegan
Shirts: teespring.com/stores/unnatura...
Don't you just love how she assumes she knows his family history just because she can see his skin color... I feel like there's a word for that...
RACISM
RACISM
RACISM
Is he not black?
@@sohyangworld1544 is racisim just to black people? No...
That Vegan Teacher reminds me of a quote by CS Lewis: “...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
@MdoubleHB yes, indeed. Without proper education and critical thinking, someone might even think that the things you've listed are true.
@MdoubleHB how do you get to these conclusions ?
@@te-ter @Das Letzte Brot: Guys, just ignore @MdoubleHB. They copy'/paste this exact comment under every UV video, with obviously zero arguments or engagement in any discussion. Just pretend they don't exist, hopefully they will go away.
@MdoubleHB Lol
EATING ANIMALS IS OKAY
THAT VEGAN TEACHER
EATING ANIMALS IS OKAY
THAT VEGAN TEACHER
sHaRReee ThHhIIiiS sonNngGgggg
And if you call me a carnivorous devil
That's fine.
Because EVERYONE'S OPINION MATTERS
I am interested in what distinction is being made between "insensitive" and "racist."
I guess racism would be treating someone differently and actually discriminating them while insensitive would be doing something that has great chances to hurt people when it could've been avoided?
@MdoubleHB you’re fucking insane
@MdoubleHB apologize yourself and what to now then what your out.
@MdoubleHB Yeah, this one's a troll. Ignore it.
そのばかげたことを報告するだけです
Wait, the idea that a song based on the tragic death of a person at the hands of people in positions of authority and grounded in centuries of systemic oppression and marginalisation could be “well done” in its drawing parallels with the death of livestock is frankly disgraceful. Omnivore or not, any sensible person should be able to recognise that the insensitivity of using the death of someone’s father, son, brother, and partner to make a point about your own views is, at worst, unforgivably crass, and at best, more alienating than it is convincing.
@MdoubleHB Uh, our appendix begs to differ. It's omnivore-length (it's stunted because we don't use it to digest as much fibers as herbivore or frugivore animals.. Our digestive systems are specifically designed to get the most out of eating literally everything, making our diets entirely choice-based. That versatility is how we even made it into our ecological niche before our technology propelled us into the apex slot of everything but the oceans.
Unless you're being sarcastic, what with the amount of misinformation in there, in which case I apologize for not reading the sarcasm.
If this was your first video you would have faced far less criticism on the topic. However, I question you finding racial insensitivity and racism different. An insensitivity to one race is in fact treating that race differently, thus...racism.
She basically handled this woman with kid gloves and split hairs to keep her image somewhat intact. Really disappointing and infuriating. By not calling out the racism, she is enabling racism.
yes, and if insensitivity means ignoring racism it's not racism but it's not anti-racism and I do wish more people were anti-racist
Hey hey, remember when you said that vegan teacher wasn’t racist? Well now she’s using the N word.
That doesn’t make her a racist. If she would have said that against someone as an insult that would definitely be considered a racist act . But guess what, she didn’t. She is against censorship, and she only said that word once. She wants to reclaim that word. You guys can’t distinguish between racism and, possible, insensitivity. You can argue that it’s not nice to even mention that word, but implying that she is a racist just because she said that is beyond ridiculous.
Watch her “Are You Racist” video open minded, try to understand what she thinks about censoring words. She believes that censoring words is not helpful and even “dangerous”, she does believe that censoring cruelty is important (that what she means when she says “Ban cruelty not words.”)
@@TUG657 she is not on a position to reclaim the N word.
Btw, you have something brown on your nose. Think it came from Swayze.
@Terrell Borroum PEOPLE EATING MEAT ARE THE ONES IN THE WRONG!!! LMAOOOO U ARE A BAD PERSON
And also she is saying ban cruelty not words. Yes she shouldn't of used the n word however her main message was ok.
@Terrell Borroum so you're saying eating meat is ok?
focusing on a philosophy doesn't excuse bad behaviour with serious consequences... its no better than saying "oh they torment those people because of their religion". If you wouldn't accept religion as a reason for someone to abuse animals in any fashion why would you accept it as a reason for abusing people??
@MdoubleHB false information is not empowering it's the exact opposite.
Everything you wrote is NOT FACT at all.
@@weewifie they spam every post. Super sad life.
@MdoubleHB lol I hope you stay on your meds soon. Don’t hurt yourself until then. XD
@MdoubleHB take your meds bro
as a 24 year old i dont see how you can run around 40 years or so not vegan and then become the vegan advocate and degrade people online becsue they choose to eat meat whichj she has done a long time herself and now acts like she never did. im sorry. like who is she to tell me that
not liking black people is a pretty unnatrual 40 year old choice unfortunatly...
@Boom ReRe you don't get his point.. change is slow.. she took her time to learn too.. others CAN TOO.. not like she had born vegan..stop name calling people it's immature
@MdoubleHB knowledge and education would be great for you
You don't just choose to eat meat, you choose to needlessly cause suffering to sentient beings. She doesn't act like she never ate meat herself, weird assertion to make. Yeah she wasn't vegan all her life, how exactly does that justify you causing needless suffering?
@@mrlikerdh she is causing a lot of pain to people with her racism and homophobia tho 😂 what? Idk how you guys draw a line to just what bothers you.. com'on being vegan doesn't excuse her behaviour infact it brings out how ignorant and insensitive to racism and homophobia she is because ? SHE IS NOT A VICTIM OF IT.. she is a priveleged woman trying to underplay racism and homophobia.. it's also sad how y'all trying to underplay her racism and homophobia because she is "vegan" and you don't care that she is a trashy human being..
The commenter is implying that she took her time to get into veganism too.. she wasn't born one.. and it didn't happen overnight.. so she should stop acting holier than dou.. and understand that change takes time..
I see a lot of comments offering forgiveness for criticism on her shity take in the previous videos as if this makes up for the problems people had with the way she expressed her views of homosexuality and race. Not to mention, how she even threw religious people under the bus as a way to defend TVT's comments. Her feelings about TVT is just part of the problem. Criticism of TVT, without addressing where you personally messed up does nothing for me.
My thoughts exactly
But her previous arguments were philosophical based, founded in reason. The only opinions I heard UV give was that she doesnt care about your sexuality, or personally care about your race, and she does believe veganism to be part of a good moral standing. UV wasn’t standing up for what TVT was saying, just explaining why the stuff said against her wasn’t accurate, or even the best arguments. Eg. Person A says 2+2=5, person B uses a slur to describe person A’s mental state, and person C comes alone and criticise person B’s use of a slur. Does that make person A any less wrong?
Why throw inaccuracies around when you can address TVT with thoughtful and reasoned stuff that she HAS to address of take on board. Then TVT’s big platform has a better chance of being used for a common good. She has a platform that isn’t going away- if she addressed her racist remarks & insensitivity (as mentioned in this video & hinted in in previous ones) and made good faith efforts to be inclusive in her fight for animal welfare...isn’t that better for everyone?
It seems like you can read but you can't evaluate arguments. Let me break it down for you:
- In her first video she clearly says that being vegan is a choice. She mentions that "veganphobia" is not the same as sexism or racism in any way. She also mentions that being homosexual isn't a choice.
- The video is called "D'Angelo is wrong about that vegan teacher".
- TVT mentions that if people can get rid of homophobia, racism, sexism, they can also get rid of veganphobia. Her point: discrimination is wrong.
- D'Angelo says that they are not comparable because veganism is a choice, therefore he is not understanding the argument. Is not about who suffers more, its about the fact that discrimination is wrong.
- Lets see another example. If a kid desides to wear a pokemon shirt to school, and people make fun of him, that is bullying. The person in question choose what to wear, does that make bullying for that reason any less wrong?
- The argument UV makes is that, religious people have stated that people can have homosexual desires but they can choose to repress them and live their lives as straight. In that specific example they are implying that living a "homosexual lifestyle" is a choice and that is what they condemn. In that scenario for that specific people homosexuality is a choice.
- According to the last point, if D'Angelo considers that discrimination based on something that is a choice is less bad that other forms of discrimination, then homophobia would not be as bad.
You can go again to the first video and re-watch it and listen to it.
Easy to talk about your philosophical stance on something that does not physically affect you in reality. She said things that were offensive to people's existence. An explanation of why she thinks that way doesn't erase that she thinks the way she does. This video explains how she feels about TVT. But like I said that's only part of the problem and this video does nothing for ME.
@@RickityKricks she is againts racism, sexism and homophobia. That is her stance, if I understand correctly, what makes you angry is that she used the words racism and homophobia to make a logical example that discrimination is wrong? Is that what gets you so mad?
Idk. Advertising veganism as "love the animals and hate people" is very unattractive to normal people. You have to hold animals above people on some level and actually get off on talking for them since it doesn't go well when you do it for people. There are vegans who want to "speak for the animals because they can't do it" simply because they get to make things up. I've met people like this and they talk about kindness a lot but can't do it. It's like the people who go around complaining about people using dogs and cats for love because if they did that with children and their parents eventually the children would grow up and try to kill them.
this is one thing that upsets me about veganism. I consider humans animals and I wish that vegans would focus on human exploitation as well as animal exploitation, because I believe they go hand in hand. If we cannot get people to treat fellow human being with respect how can we ever expect them to treat animals with respect. I want to buy vegan clothes not made in sweat shops. I don't want to buy electronics made in poor working conditions.
@@christylbk I find your point very interesting. At the same time, wouldn't you think that humans would treat other fellow humans with more respect and create better conditions (based on the examples you've describes), if we where to treat the most vulnerable with those same ideals. Now the probability that people will do this (unlikely) but the idea still stands. The moment we commodify a being is the moment we allow ourselves to create discrepancies within our own reasoning. All the examples you've described are based on the same ideal, using another person vulnerability for one own benefits. Wouldn't that seem a little hypocritical...(?), it's about doing the right thing with what you can* not doing right thing for everything (sure that sounds great on paper but it's very hard to do). It's great though that at least you acknowledge that! In reality, regardless of your stands on veganism, most of the arguments still stand true. Also just responding to the original comment, whether you want to value animal life above human life (or vice versa), really has nothing to do with veganism/ the argument you're making overall (activism sure). Some people value animal life above human life and some people value human life above animal life, (so..?). The point of veganism is focus more on the social injustice issues that affect animals. It's easy to say, humans are animals and therefore we should care about humans too, when the likelihood of people prioritize animals is very unlikely if you where to discuss this in a conversation. Veganism just gives animals a place at the table that's all.
@MdoubleHB jesus christ stop spamming
@@harleyquinn202 " wouldn't you think that humans would treat other fellow humans with more respect and create better conditions (based on the examples you've describes), if we where to treat the most vulnerable with those same ideals" Clearly that is not the case, since you yourself admit that there are people who prioritize other species over fellow humans, and that all humans are obviously not treated equal. I don't see how better treatment for cows and pigs will automatically lead to every problem POC or disabled people face simply disappearing. That seems like something vegans would say to deflect from the fact that many of them, especially white first world vegans, have more sympathy for cows or pigs than they do for, say, black people.
I felt like you went easy on That Vegan Teacher in the earlier videos, but seeing this I feel like you just approached this topic as you have approached other topics in the past: rationally, trying to see all sides, and having a scientific critique of the topic you discuss.Thank you for reminding me that people aren’t one dimensional, you can both agree and disagree with someone, and that just makes us all human.
She kept telling us to be patient in the first video. At least I felt that way.
@@mehulgopalakrishnan5787 I agree (rewatching as we speak), but it got overshadowed by what felt like the excusing of all of That Vegan Teachers actions. So I missed it in my first watching of it. My bad. I did however give her the benefit of the doubt, and decided not to comment until all parts were out, so even though Swayze didn’t know I doubted her, I wanted to apologise and give her credit where it was due. 😊
@MdoubleHB matey has those notifications ON
@MdoubleHB Humans have independent choice.
Cooked food is nice.
Viruses definitely exist.
We are in the middle of a pandemic.
I am getting vaccinated on Monday and it contains no live virus sample.
Science is real and shouldn’t be diminished just to be an edgelord spambot.
MdoubleHB must cease.
@@kitsunedemon every time i see this guy I report him for spam. How is he still around?? So annoying!!
It' not about "hurt feelings" it's about proping up this narrative that black people are less deserving/in need of help, compassion, and justice than ANIMALS. Come on, you've got to see how that belief is inherently rooted in racism. (I am specifically talking about the song here)
She's not bringing human suffering down to that of animals, she's raising animal suffering up to pain that humans can relate to directly.
Yeah no, that is not at all what happened.
@@mairzydoats4879 I have tried to reply to your comment multiple times but it's not showing up. Not sure what key word is getting filtered out so I'm gonna reword it.
I understand that the intent it to raise up animals not pull down people but historically and currently, comparisons to animals have been used to cause real harm to POC. This comparison has been used to encourage the idea that they are less intelligent and lack agency, further perpetuating not only racist ideas but damaging actions that come from those ideas.
That rewording is really clunky and not as concise as I would like but hopefully it gets past the filter.
@@misshotchocolate2011 This is exactly what so many of these people are just not getting. Or are being willfully ignorant about.
@@mairzydoats4879 and also not really giving a shit about human suffering...
If this video were the first instalment in the series, I think a lot of controversy and upset could have been avoided. Having said that, some people are ademant to interpret anything that resembles criticism as a personal attack, regardless of the validity of the arguments presented.
I mean she told people to be patient,people are too quick to judge I think x)
@@sunsundks3891 she did.
She literally said to wait for all parts before drawing conclusions..
People were just so quick to virtue signal
@@janospergely3805 that doesn't change the fact that some of the things she saif were problematic lol that changes nothing.
Ironically this includes TVT herself. I'm hoping this is all manufactured drama now because she seemed pretty hurt by this response.
Wait, TVT doesn’t care about hurting peoples feelings, but is worried you are going to call her “cringey”? .... um...?
I mean she is cringe
I thought that was super weird that she does what she does then stays Swazye you hurt my feelings calling me cringey even though I know I am but still don’t call me that 🤦♀️😂
Kayla Pounardjian nto you the vegan girl
It is bad I don’t care if she is hurting peoples feelings if they eat chicken, cows, pigs and lamb.
@@amirrhodesve791 Then who is she to complain if people call her cringey?
I'm guessing most of the people who have decided not to support you based on this series haven't watched this video, because the comments are largely positive. I'm sorry, but I'm gone. I stuck around for this one to give you the benefit of the doubt but you just said the I Can't Breathe song resulted in "hurt feelings." No. That's not a hurt feelings issue. She took a human being's death, his dying words, his words that have become a rallying cry for BLM, and made it about chickens. No. That's disgusting, it IS racist, and it shows horrible morals.
Your whole comment can be summarized as “hurt feelings”, so I guess she was right.
uh huh. and your comment pretty much just shows how your feelings are hurt. what's your point?
“This didn’t result in ‘hurt feeling’. What it actually resulted in is my feelings being hurt!! Really badly!!” - You, 2021
Thank you! I'm assuming that a lot of the people who agree with you haven't watched this video. I was surprised at all if the positive comments, when, not even a minute into the video, she framed people's offense at racism, anti-semitism, and homophobia as "hurt feelings." I am definitely not giving this channel the time of day again. I am truly disgusted that there are vegans who think it's okay to diminish the importance of the oppression of marginalized groups to promote veganism.
White people will give her the benefit of doubt once again even though she’s shown that she is racist (first with the BLM now this). Tbh it isn’t even surprising to me. I mean look at how people are responding to you, to them racism is just hurt feelings and not an actual systems that continuously destroys lives.
We need to be cautious to not get bogged down in the philosophy of veganism while ignoring the psychology of how people will react to our behavior.
You thought the George Floyd video was WELL DONE? I can't man I'm outta here.
When did she say that?
yeah, I also want to know, when did she say that?
@@sunsundks3891 3:08 on-screen
I think she is saying the song itself is well done with out the horrific link . She says how it was hurtful, insensitive, and harmful to do things like that. I think she was just saying objectively the song well done. If she wrote that song with out the reference it was well done. I might be explaining my thoughts terribly. This is just what I heard from her. I don't think by any means is she condoning, or praising the song.
@@tinyl9599 With all due respect, I don't think that makes it any different. It's just inappropriate and unnecessary. It didn't need praise. It's a George Floyd song... about animals. I'm...
She doesn't care about the feelings of non vegans, because of her belief that it doesn't matter how they feel because they eat animal products. But she seems to have applied that to everyone else, so she doesn't care about anyone's feelings. And that just makes her an unkind person.
She doesn’t care about the feelings of non vegans not because they eat animal products, but because her goal is to make them stop paying for animal suffering - because that is “doing more good than harm” -> 3:18
@@lucijababic1974 well she's hurting the cause she seems to care about and that is doing more harm than good
I’m vegan and I just think that she has the completely wrong approach to persuading non vegans to be plant based. She just calls people chicken sh*ts and never fully explains things in a calm and detailed way. She just shouts at people. Not to mention she literally said the n word and said that coming out is selfish 😳
I don't know, they way you handled this was so strange. Because you didn't move a finger when she compared veganphobia to homophobia and racism. You actually said you didn't see a problem with it because if gay people are not in a relationship, they don't get any consequences. PURE BS. Don't you dare to compare all the physical and EXTREME emotional abuse that comes with it, because honey, that's not it.
And it seems you have quite a few issues when it comes to actually acknowledging your own mistakes. You should work on that.
You don't even have to be gay to get discriminated against. It's enough if someone thinks you behave that way and other join in.
The problem with homophobia are not the LGBTQ*IA people, it's the homophobes who often are also rascists and if not that at least bullies.
I just read a comment on the video before which says that UV is trying to use analytical philosophy in that.
Rascism, Homophobism etc are not abstract philosophical problems, they are complex and have tons of facettes (societal, emotional, economical etc) and to leave out the "emotional" part is just not on.
You thought the song was well done??? Okayyyy
Yeah this lady still sucks
The song is great. It talks about everyone, and everyone deserves to live and not suffer
@@TUG657 y i k e s
@@shell9918
Crazy right?
I agree that the song was realised in the wrong time. But the message is very important and beautiful.
In case you are interested, she talks a lot about that song in her response to UV:
ruclips.net/video/w_DQikXxBt0/видео.html
@@TUG657 lol not supporting her with my view
I'm so glad you brought up that video where she brought up that commenters race. It was something I thought would come up in your very first video about her. I'm also really suprize do that not many people talk about that anymore.! But it really put me off watching any of her content.
I still think your concept of racism and your approach to racial justice (even if the standard for justice is just consequential equality, without ideas of retribution or recompense or multiculturalism or heritage or anything 'touchy-feely' that you seem, philosophically and personality-wise, not to value as much) are skeletal and without context, but I appreciate your condemning TVT's behavior to the extent that your own ethical system and worldview allow you to.
Hi, I'm not sure if you're going to see this, but I have some things that I would like to point out. Let me start with this, I love your content, you give well thought out and researched criticism, but the whole "I can't breathe" song that TVT made is much more than "hurt feelings" as you say, I'm a black vegan who was extremely traumatized by last year's events because so many things happened in the Black community and we still didn't get justice or the things we asked for, I Can't Breathe is our slogan because its a common thing said by black people when they are restrained by the police because the police use such excessive for on us. You can't take the slogan of a certain group and change that to fit your cause because that takes away from the group and the specific issue they are talking about, for example there is "Give the Land Back" and "Abolish Ice" and "Black Lives Matter" and "I Can't Breathe" they are all slogans that pertain to certain people or marginalized communities and it does more than give them "hurt feelings" it deminishes the issues they face because you're taking the thing they go through, ignoring the context of it and applying it to another thing, which is inherently wrong to do when someone is talking about something they are going through, it's not just "Oh we have to walk on eggshells" no we don't and shouldn't have to do that but we also can't just say "oh I'm gonna hurt your feelings" which can lead to other things besides hurt feelings such as self harm and stuff like that, people weren't mad that she made the song "too soon". People were angry because she even made reference to it, do you know how traumatizing George's death was to our community? We literally protested and rioted to no avail, Breonna Taylor didn't get the justice we fought for we worked so hard and we got nothing but bandaids and company mascots changed like Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben's we literally didn't even get the basic rights we asked for, we still have to see black people killed in the streets and at the hand of police at a disproportionate rate, hateful people literally stormed the capital and most of them go to go home while protesters couldn't protest peacefully and we're being arrested at every turn, it's not just "hurt feelings" it's experiences we go through that aren't just talkings points. I Can't Breathe were George's lasts words, his death isn't even allowed to be a reference, how is okay to politicize someone's death to apply to so saving animals? That's not okay, it makes us feel like our issues aren't cared about because "Oh the animals matter more" I know you haven't said that or TVT but that's what you guys imply when you think you're just "hurting feelings" when you aren't just doing that you're doing alot more.
You should check out her Twitter, racism isn’t really a concept she likes to entertain, unfortunately.
@@Nicotine027 TVT or UnnaturalVegan?
@@trejohnwhite7991 Unnatural Vegan. You’ll also find some cute internalized misogyny there.
@@Nicotine027 Oh thanks
@@Nicotine027 If I didn’t like a RUclipsr, I wouldn’t watch their videos and, hence, wouldn’t even have a reason to comment under their videos (for example, I neither like nor care for TVT so I’m not watching any of her videos, on any platform). You clearly dislike UV, so what are you doing here? I’ve seen your comments many times already. Is this some sort of masochism?
I commented this on the other videos, and I'm sure that other people have said things along these lines, but trying again: outside of TVT I think that the way you addressed homophobia was insulting and demonstrated that you don't understand the issue and your followup didn't make it any better. This is a perfect example of what people are talking about when they talk about not speaking for or speaking over the people who have actual experience with the issues because seemingly either to make a point about comparing it to veganophobia or because you don't know how it functions you boiled homophobia down to being based on the choice to act on homosexual behavior. An official statement from a church isn't evidence of how people in the real world act, and discrimination based on identity or even perception of identity when that thing doesn't happen (like gender non-conforming kids being called gay as a form of bullying) are real common occurrences that a lot of people have spoken to. The hate the sinner not the sin form of homophobia is often only how people speak or how they think they act, but people do absolutely treat you differently and discriminate solely based on your identity. I found the way you talked about it frustrating and insulting, it doesn't seem to have come up again in this video, but I wanted to try to get my thoughts about this out there again because I think it's important and wasn't adequately addressed and because I see a lot of people in the comment section being forgiving about some of the things you've talked about in light of this video and I feel that there are still points like this that haven't been addressed.
I also looked at the description of her "I can't breathe", Not only was the video itself unnaceptable but she said this in the desc.
"If you are not vegan, then, by default, you are FOR animal abuse. If you are FOR animal abuse, your voice does not matter; your actions are already speaking so loudly that we cannot hear a word you are saying. If you choose to pay for the rape, torture and murder of innocent sentient beings WHEN THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONS, you should be behind bars. Want credibility? Change. Be decent. Be vegan. Start now."
First of all, that is terrible, she is saying other people do not have the right to SPEAK OUT and HAVE A VOICE because we are not vegan. TERRIBLE.
So. This is better. I would echo other comments that this video should have been the first in this series. Given your analysis of TVT and your conclusions, I don't know why you felt it necessary to make several videos that could be easily construed as supporting her.
Actually, I do know. You mention it at 5:38, where you note that TVT cares only about views (which can be spurred by spouting controversial views). I quote, "She's obviously not willing to evaluate potential problems and take responsibility for missteps. It's pretty reckless." Mm-hmm. And at 8:40 you urge her to apologize to her audience for engaging in this behavior and echoing what you admit are racist talking points. Good advice, actually.
What I have seen in these past few videos is a massive failure of empathy. This is combined with a commitment to "objective" knowledge over experience and a desire to always be right, even in the most pointless and damaging way.
And you haven't been right. Your regurgitation of homophobic talking points (i.e., gay relationships are the choice, not being gay) as the actual basis for bigotry evinces your lack of engagement with actual homophobia and is deeply, woefully ignorant. Your video on neoliberalism was a web of factual errors in your definitions and descriptions of political ideologies. And those are only the things I feel qualified to call out as egregious.
I rarely write wall-of-text comments, so tl;dr this was a good video, but I worry your take-away from this is that controversy from your bad takes will just bring you higher views and engagement.
EDIT: y'all should go watch the response video from Aime Maggie for another perspective ruclips.net/video/zSPbbGJ2EZ8/видео.html
wait, could you tell me more about the gay relationship thing? Did she say that in a video.
@@ph4780 She basically said that being in a gay relationship is a choice, even though being gay is not. And called the "hate the sin not the sinner " position not homophobic.
I disagree with you. I agree with pretty much everything she said so far, including the fact that, inherently, being gay is not a choice, but acting on those emotions is. I fight for my right to be happy and make meaningful same gender relationships, but it a choice. Just like her, I believe it is a valid choice and it should be a right, despite fully acknowledging it is a choice.
My understanding of that statement was that she was simply explaining the "hate the sin, not the sinner" mentality's logic and how some homophobic people justify their bigotry. I don't think she tried to say that this is the only way homophobes operate or that this mentality is not homophobic.
There is certainly some sense behind the idea that one's relationships are for the most part a choice, even for straight couples it is generally them choosing to be in a committed relationship with the partner or their choice. One does not choose their orientation, or who they are attracted to or fall in love with, but the actions taken upon those feelings is for the most part a choice. To me, this shouldn't be that controversial of a statement, but I kinda understand why it doesn't sit right with a lot of people.
I figured she wasn't saying that this mentality isn't homophobic, but that these types of bigots do not consider themselves to be homophobes.
Much like certain relatives of mine who say shit like "I don't mind the gays as long as they keep it to themselves" - they do not consider themselves homophobic despite literally just displaying a homophobic attitude.
I watched the previous videos once each so I hope I'm not misremembering something.
I also hope my explanation made sense lol. Especially considering how complicated it can get to decipher people's views when they are explaining or analyzing the philosophy or reasoning behind something they may or may not agree with themselves @__@
@@circleoffinnishjerks4982 Neither yours nor Swayze’s explanations make sense. Straight people aren’t abused, skipped for jobs, killed, etc. at a systemic level for being straight. If the only support you have for you argument are statements you yourself don’t believe, you have a weak argument, and it’s time for you to back down and apologize for your homophobia.
I watched this whole video in order to seek if she had made any good points. While she made points on veganism, which its her channel its fine. BUT by discussing the consequentialist actions existing on a spectrum, seeing how Swayze has not stood up and called out TVT on the homophobic comments in previous videos, called that horribly racist song "tasteful," and basically handled this woman with kid gloves, she is causing great harm to people other than her subscribers. We cannot be advocates against overt and surreptitious harm against historically marginalized groups if we are defending these points. Overall, I looked up to you for a while, but things you have done, said, and presented are just harmful and I do not think you realize it. And if you do and don't change, maybe instead of critiquing her activism, maybe you should reevaluate yours.
my question is...............wtf has she made an onlyfans? she is money hungry
Hmm, I can see why you think that all of that TVT was not racist or homophobic. I think ContraPoints in her J.K.Rowling video explains pretty well why people give the stuff she did names. The thing is all she did fits a broader rhetoric that is pretty racist and homophobic. People have seen this type of content, argument and no sense of compassion in actual full racists and homophobes. It is not just about feelings.
But it's like reading the first sentence of a book and assuming you can accurately guess the rest of it based on other books that started with "Once upon a time..."
@@mairzydoats4879 For some reason people grasp it when it comes to Jews. What would you think about video where somebody tries to explain how Jews run everything? Would you say that people who call the author antisemitic are 'reading the first sentence of a book and assuming you can accurately guess the rest of it based on other books that started with "Once upon a time..."'?
If Unnatural Vegan could watch Contrapoints she could become so powerful
@@adapienkowska2605 The irony is that most people don't understand how the New Testament is actually antisemitic (but that's beside the point). Tvt isn't making any statement equating, she's making a comparison with the focus on animals.
What's ridiculous to me is that she acts surprised at the reactions she gets. At first it looked like intentional attention seeking but there is a point where her surprise is damning in itself. Her goal is not to bring human issues down to animals but to elevate animal suffering to make it more relatable to humans. So in that way using the alllivesmatter hashtag to get attention toward her cause is not racist. But if she really was surprised that most people took offense then she might actually be racist, or otherwise completely unempathetic.
I don't think she should say these things but at the same time I don't think anyone should blame anyone else for their own triggers. Many people are traumatized and it's not necessarily anyone's fault. For example, I don't think people should celebrate wars with fireworks when so many war vets have ptsd triggered by the sounds. But that doesn't make complete strangers personally morally responsible for someone else's panic attack. (I do still need to watch contra's newest video though)
Thank you! It really irritates me that she frames people's offense at racism, anti-semitism, and homophobia as "hurt feelings."
It is NOT up to you to decide what is and isn’t racist.
Exactly.
So it’s up to you?
That vegan teacher isn’t racist...
@@TUG657 are you kidding me? Have you seen her videos? She is rascist.
Hear, hear!
@@TUG657 its black peoples decision to decides what is racist
This one was interesting. I appreciated how you made an effort to explain your position better in this video, because like it or not, a lot of people won't understand what you mean if you gloss over something. This one may have done better as the first in the series...
this part 3 is already pre-planned so it's not because of the mobs dude
@@kepo364 I probably should have worded that as two separate sentences and two separate thoughts. 1) I like how you made more of an effort to explain your thought process in this video. 2) like it or not, a lot of people won't understand if you gloss over something.
Regardless of whether or not it was done in response to the other videos, I think she was a lot more clear and articulate about her stance in this video vs the others in the series. I think that is good and valuable and important.
I think it only goes to show that she can, which further makes the other videos a poor reflection of her content.
Edit to add: "The mobs" had nothing to do with my comment other than the fact that I was one of the many upset by many of the things said, and I think the better effort made to be clear and articulate here in this video vs the others is appreciated by me, someone who probably understands more clearly the intent in this video than the others. I appreciated understands the message more clearly. Mobs or not. I don't want to assume the worst in people but when you say stuff that sounds really shitty, it comes off as shitty. But when you are more careful and articulate, maybe it won't sound as shitty.
The only reason she made this video is to save her reputation....
She said that this is gonna be a three part series in the very beginning, but well people can choose what they want to believe🤷♂️
There are so many white people in these comments happy she gave them cover to keep supporting her. Like, she didn’t cape for the white woman being attacked over all else by (check notes) telling a black man something wasn’t racist, completely skipping over a large part of DW’s video & comment where he specifically shows more racist and anti-Semitic content, and used homophobic rhetoric that SHE says she doesn’t believe to win an argument.
I wish I could say I was surprised, but I live in America, so.
i wish this was the first part of the series
I don't think it would have worked as the first part. I think it was needed to identify poor arguments against TVT first before presenting this argument.
@@blakenorwood2092 she didn’t do that tho lol
@@My4InnerPeople exactly
@@My4InnerPeople mmm yes she did
@@SuperFosterMom you really make some solid and in depth points, thank you for your contribution
To paraphrase:
Calm down. I have a chart. As you can see, I am not racist according to this definition least accepted by and least meaningful to most of the most affected.
Great video! You do a good job at addressing things from a philosophical perspective and it was enlightening in places, entertaining in others. I've enjoyed this entire three part series, the first two parts felt a bit biased; but, this third part I think balanced things out and you talked about some stuff about tvt that I really wanted to see!
Damn, all this time I thought people calling me cringe was a compliment xD
LOOOL
@MdoubleHB The people who are the healthiest and live the longest eat cooked food.Some things are very hard to get in raw foods,its also not fun,you have to eat a lot,and it is expensive.Vaccines are needed.
I will probably not respond if you respond to this.
@MdoubleHB I'm responding.Just saying nonsense to everything isnt an argument.All I said is actually true.
そのばかげたことを報告するだけです
@MdoubleHB the fruits of these days are toxic too. These fruits we and u eat are not what our earliest ancestors ate. If u r indeed a frugivore, imagine all ur fruits being sour, fibrous, seedy etc. .... everything but very sweet
This is going to be interesting, I like your train of thoughts and perspective, even if I don't always agree with you. I think it's an opportunity to challenge the perspective and wievs I have and a chance to grow.
Came here to say exactly what you said!
I enjoy that UV encourages a thoughtful approach to topics.
@MdoubleHB Please tell me that you’re being sarcastic.
@@marinahparkinson1802 This account spams the comment section of every single Unnatural Vegan video. It's best to just not engage. You can report its comments or its account as spam, but RUclips hasn't been too helpful in stopping it unfortunately :/
@@JustanOrdinaryLifeJapan Read the comment section, this series is the end of UV channel RIP
Also you are probably swayze husband lmao
exactly i agree with you. She is so rational and i can clearly see she has thought about the ethics of veganism. She is always calm and collected and i think she would be great to have a conversation with. I always thought philosophy was an eh subject but seeing as how she has a degree in it makes me think otherwise. She is very intellegent. She deserves less hate and more love and subscribers
I watched all 4 videos and I still take issue with the “choosing to be in a gay relationship” argument. It didn’t help prove your point at all and it was a BAD take.
Even considering the most liberal apologetic Christian stance the matter of "choice" is immaterial to homophobia. It's all homophobia and it's all wrong. That's what she's saying. And that's why "choice" is immaterial to so called "veganphobia" too.
Her point is: sexual orientation IS NOT a choice, but being in a gay relationship IS a choice. There’s a huge difference between the two
@@ramenjd6239 not really? Sure if youre being super nitpicky theres technically a ifference. But in real life, the impact is the same.
@@ramenjd6239 UV's point was that "choice" does not matter when it comes to so called phobias and bigotry. Veganism being a "choice" does not make it ok to hate vegans [just because they're vegans].
I can't believe she is hurt by being called cringe 🥴
🤡
No I don't think you've got this right. She was responding to accusations and criticisms made against her. Everyone's allowed to do that.
I can’t believe someone would make a comment about that. If that offends her don’t say it to her, simple as that.
@@TUG657 isn't it ironic that she gets angry at people just for getting offended by the n-word and she made a whole video saying we shouldn't be offended about it if we are offended about it don't say it to us simple as that
Thank you for the concluding video in this series. I know people were quick to criticize your responses without understanding or remembering that this video on critiquing TVT was coming up. I’ve had a few opinions regarding some of the other videos in this series, but I withheld because I was waiting for this video to come out. You’ve addressed some of my opinions so thank you for clearing some of that up. Overall, yes I agree TVT’s approach is not the best and she should reflect on how she carries her message.
I don't think we forgot she was going to criticize her, I just have real issue with the order she criticized them in. And the degree to which she downplayed people's concerns and hurt about racism and homophobia.
At this point I honestly don’t think Swayze knows what racism is...
Let alone her cognitive dissonance with the VeganTeacher being actually racist...
She'll just give you the Webster's dictionary definition of racism if you said that to her, like she did last video. For someone so intelligent on other subjects, she certainly lacks nuance here whether it's intentional or not. But this isn't the first time she's done this. See: the BLM videos.
@@sanaminatozaki2140 how dare someone use a dictionary to establish the meaning of words instead of going along with a screaming mob who insist they THEY know the TRUE meaning (and the true meaning coincidentally reinforces their worldview)? So ~~racist~~!!
@@Serioslump just say you're a racist and move on. just because you don't fit the stereotypical image of an ignorant, violent, angry hick that's proud of their own prejuidices doesn't mean you're not one.
@@Serioslump but a simple dictionary does not suffice for this kind of discussion. At university this kind of dictionary would not count as a reliable source (at least not in Germany where I work as a lecturer) - a sociological dictionary or a cultural studies dictionary would be more appropriate.
I appreciate your discussion of basic philosophical ideas in Ethics in this video. I hope you do more content in this vein; it could help expand your horizons and reach. Furthermore, regularly interacting with the ideas will likely make you able to counter peoples' counterarguments in a more concise and digestible manner.
Did you just get here? That’s literally what she does in almost all her videos.
I know she engages with the ethical and philosophical ideas behind veganism all the time. I am moreso saying that I hope she does more content strictly on Philosophy and Ethics themselves, as well as arguments outside of, but maybe tangential to, Veganism.
@@BBVictini1 She has a major in philosophy so I guess her horizon already expanded since she's well aware of various philosophical disziplines. And as a philosophy major myself I might add that her arguments are usually flawless and at the very least always logical.
@@Sookielein Yeah, I agree that she has fantastic logic in her arguments. What I am saying is that I hope she does more content directly engaging with philosophical ideas for the viewers' sake in particular, so that they can not only replicate her arguments, but more deeply umderstand why they work so well. Also, by reach and horizons, I meant regarding audience. I would imagine someone in her position would find it better to spread her ideas to more people, and by attracting more people from the broader philosophy and debate communities, she could get more people to watch her content, possibly opening more of them to lead more genuinely ethical lifestyles.
@MdoubleHB Lol
I did wonder why you didn't speak about the tiktok (or whatever it was) where she talks to a black person about black history and drawing parallels of abusive treatment towards people of his race and animals (and the whole context around that), in the original response you made to TVT.
I do find it really hard to believe that anyone could act in a way that aligns with a fully deontological framework in every situation.
It’s addressed in 6:10
@@ramenjd6239 Not in this three/four-part thing, but in the one she did a while ago I meant.
have you considered videos breaking down philosophical frameworks?
If you get no response here maybe pitch it next time she asks youtube for video ideas.
you would probably be better off getting that from a channel that focuses on philosophy. there are many. when UV has dabbled into politics and philosophy she often fails to correctly define terms.
just know... she's not a good source of information outside of diet.
“Great courses” has a great lecture based course for basic philosophical reasoning. You could also sign up for a course at a local college. Idk if you’d get much from a RUclips video from someone who only has one degree.
Check out cosmic skeptic
I'd love that
You’re dead wrong about homophobes, and you must know that. They are not discriminating against us based on so called “choices” that we make. It is much deeper than that. You’re using the broken and harmful logic of bigots to bolster your own argument, why?
White fragility at its finest, maybe part of a larger liberal fragility. I say this because I have been this type of person. The person that is insecure deep down and too afraid to admit their own biases, and faults.
Racists are bad people, so white liberals (not always white, but usually) can't admit that they might be ignorant, they might have some unchecked bias, because then they would be a bad person and "I'm not a bad person, I'm a good person!". This is generally the thought process and it applies to ignorance about homophobia, and sexism. Of course the way to move past it is we all need to stop posturing ourselves as morally flawless and pure, and admit we are shaped by the flawed society we are born into.
I really loved the explanation of deontological and consequential ethics in relation to the "no kissing people who eat meat" because ive never really understood that perspective.
I've had to explain to my family why I don't care about my food being cooked on the same veggie oil as meat was cooked, or why eating non vegan leftovers that are about to go in the bin doesn't bother me, so it's nice to have an explanation for their confusion that's a bit more substantial than the 'my body is a temple' type stuff
Is "That Vegan Teacher" an actual IRL teacher that happens to also be a vegan activist or is she just a "veganism teacher" on the internet?
I'm never going to be able to stand to watch TVT, but I really appreciate this perspective on her and the philosophy behind that style of activism.
Black viewers: The George Floyd song is racist because it redirects energy from the loss of HUMAN life to the loss of ANIMAL life. Thinking that brown humans are less important than animals is racist, as is redirecting energy from their causes to animal causes.
Unnatural Vegan: The George Floyd song is insensitive, but not racist.
Also Unnatural Vegan: Why am I being accused of talking over Black people while directly contradicting their assessment of racial issues to substitute my own views on those issues even though I don't have personal experience with racism??????!?!?!!?!?!!?!?!
Many, if not most, vegans do not see animals as inferior to humans.
But TVT doesn’t think that brown humans are less important than animals
@@lucijababic1974 Then why does she use racial issues to promote activism for animals? She at the very least thinks human activism is less important than animal activism. If she doesn't feel that way, her actions are not in alignment with her thoughts and feelings.
@@Maryaminx Well, I hope none of those vegans drive cars or bikes then, because they roll over bugs all the time while using these vehicles. Oh wait, everyone on the planet actually operates like animals are less important than humans, no matter if they claim to not be a speciesist. I could vastly reduce gnat deaths when I go running in the summer if I covered myself head to toe in fabric, because I run through clouds of these bugs and they drown in my sweat. I prioritize my own comfort over the bugs' lives. I assume most other vegans would too.
I'm pretty sure human life would have a lot less worth in the eyes of non-human animals if they could understand what's going on. We are like their hitlers but x trillion fold. If those animals were a bit smarter, they would like to see humans suffer wth most painful way possible.
I don't see how we can put human-animals above non-human animals.
The biggest issue with That Vegan Teacher is that she’s baiting and so many people are taking the bait. She’s become so popular.
@Marie she has 33 million likes on her tik tok let that sink in
Great video! Can't wait for the next topic.
I'm glad I waited to see where this was going. I feel like I learned something from the way you handled this.
Out of curiosity what did you learn?
I think a lot of non-vegans love to focus on people like “the vegan teacher” and give them so much attention, because if they can find vegans like this, they can easily feel better about not being vegan.
Oh maybe it’s because she’s genuinely harmful person. I say this as a vegan.
Would it make you better to say that she's not a "true" -scotsman- vegan?
Right... Because people care more about the vegan side of it as opposed to the racism, homophobia etc. Before, she was just deemed as some crazy vegan that everyone laughed at. But now people are genuinely concerned because she has such a large following which in turn can influence so many people into believing that coming out is indeed a selfish act, and that POC are on board with being compared to animals.
And I get it, you made other serviceable arguments in this video, but it's not always about some of the good you add to something. If you have enough bad in it it's a problem. I just find that idea of ignoring 'hurt feelings' because it saves animals lives very troubling if it's potentially a view point you hold seriously, which is why it's the one thing I focus on. You don't have to care about black people as much as you want to solve animal suffering, but you shouldn't expect much good will or positivity either.
An imperfect duty is returning the shopping cart to the cart return
Excellent approach. Rational, respectful, thoughtful, fair. Glad I waited to form an opinion about your views on TVT.
I was waiting for that one 😅😂! merci
This should have been the first video, not the last!
I really appreciate this video. The other two videos make much more sense, and I apologize for being so critical before.
Personally, I still think you were too nice in the other videos lol, but I understand them more. ❤️
I agree that she went really easy on her, but from this video it seems like that was intended. Swayze wanted to get on TVT's good side so that she might actually listen to her. Not how I personally would've gone about it but hey props to her if it works.
Great to hear so!
I second this, I still find her approach toxic but I apologise for my criticism of the other videos and appreciated this one. Thanks Swayze.
I really have the urge to share the following after you said parents don't know shit about vegan nutrition. My mom never went vegan but made such balanced meals for me (brown Rice, lentils en veggies was obliged at least once a week) and forced me to take my supplements when I went vegan when I was 17. This was 7 years ago, when veganism in the Netherlands was still kind of rare. My mom is not a dietitian by the way, just a high school teacher.
That’s awesome but she is generalizing, not speaking about your mother specifically. It’s great that your mother had the ability to care for you in an ideal way re. diet but many parents don’t have the capacity, time or privilege to do this for their kids so it can be dangerous to use people like your mother as the baseline for what’s possible. My parents certainly couldn’t cater for my diet.
That's fantastic, but I would say that you're one of the exceptions.
Just to be clear, I was only sharing this because I'm really glad that I got to have this experience and thankful that my mom took care of me the way she did, not to say that the statement made about parents and nutrition isn't true, I can't say anything about what it's like for other children/teens, just what it was like for me. I just felt like sharing my experience.
being racisit and defending racist is not vegan. Comparing animals to people is by definition inhuman. You do not get to compare animals to people. I am vegan, and I am BLM... it's not diametraclly opposed, being racist is not vegan
Comparing isn’t equating. Humans and animals are similar in many ways.
@@TUG657 that still isnt a excuse to equate nor compare
liked the video. didn't think it was boring. i actually like these kinda videos the most
I liked the video but I have 2 questions: 1) Why do you say veganism is not the moral baseline? Also, I don't get the "we can all do better" comment in relation to that.
2) Why say that she should think more about the impact of her activism when you know she is a deontologist? Like, being a correct deontologist (like, consistent) is not the same as being a utilitarian. Are you saying she should become a utilitarian/consequentialist? (I'm a uti too btw)
Also, not saying vegan activism is a moral obligation, but when you have become vegan long after you realized what you've been supporting, is not the same as trying to make up for what your ancestors did. Though, yes, it WOULD be trying to make up for what SOCIETY does.
I think she was specifically talking about trying to force people to be animal activists and saying that being vegan is not enough.
Petition for D'Angelo Wallace to do a video tearing unnatural vegan down
everytime i go on her premiere everyone calls me a monster for eating eggs... Even though i let them wander free around my house!
The video that should have been the start and the end of the “That Vegan Teacher” series.
I think the fact it wasn't the first really shows her bias.
this was an intense vid. I had to focus a lot, philosophy is not my strong side. But I am glad you finished with Idris Elba, yes, yes he might be the closest thing to perfection.
@MdoubleHB Humans are omnivores
Certain raw foods are dangerous.
Viruses do exist, and many people die from them.
Again, a lot of people have died from the pandemic.
Vaccines save a lot of lives and don't cause autism or anything else.
@MdoubleHB No, your comment is the dangerous one. Many people have died from viruses and the pandemic, and telling people that it’s safe to go outside when it isn’t is just going to cause more deaths. Also, not getting vaccines is unsafe as they protect you from deadly illnesses. Also stop spamming in the replies of multiple comments
そのばかげたことを報告するだけです
@@BrightLilyYT I wouldn’t bother, I keep reporting this person comments as spam.
I had no idea who Elba is. Had to google. Yes, I have seen him many times. Very attractive, yup.
Here from Vegan Gains who just destroyed you
He did indeed. This is a very dishonest video.
You are the reason I stayed vegan when I was 12, because I went vegan through people like Vegan Gainz and while thats good in the short term, it pretty quickly fell apart. But once I found your channel I realized the actual reasons for being vegan and I still am today so thanks!
Umm... Story of my life as well. I started watching her when I was 12.
12? damn.
Wooplot Yep! I went vegan when I was 12!
@MdoubleHB Humans have independent choice.
Cooked food is nice.
Viruses definitely exist.
We are in the middle of a pandemic.
I am getting vaccinated on Monday and it contains no live virus sample.
Science is real and shouldn’t be diminished just to be an edgelord spambot.
MdoubleHB must cease.
Yall are so cool for going vegan at 12 dang! Future generations give hope
This video is simply a performance to try and save face
Yep... her socialblade was bleeding...
Thank you for this comment. I just watch a reaction of another youtuber reacting on "the famous" TVT defence... I stopped youtube to propose me this channel and because youtube is SO nice, it proposes me reaction of this person video now ! I didn't need much to dislike the video that I saw and to hope to never see that person again...whatever she's saying now and in the future, she will always be the person who put others (people and issues) down to lift herself (and issues matter for her up)...that's nasty and the only common point w/ homophobia, racism, anti-vegan etc... (apart that they are issues) are that they should never put each other down to lift themselves (awareness) up.
This is just getting worse. Yeah you're big brain thinker philosopher person, but I don't see how that's relevant or useful in conversations about the morality surrounding the issue of racism.
I know you're posing this somewhat as a hypothetical but the fact you mentioned it makes me feel like you at least consider it. And the statement I'm talking about is your comment about valuing animal wellbeing over human emotions (human emotions relating to human wellbeing mind you, you seem to have forgotten that). Really it just shows which group you prioritize more, it has nothing to do with consequentialism. Because if you were concerned about being a consequentialist you might realize allowing insensitivity or thoughtlessness around racism can permit or encourage racism. So either one can have a bad outcome. A net-negative depending on which side you look on and you're clearly more inclined to look on the animal side. But I don't. So if all that matters is bringing about a good outcome then I guess we shouldn't spare vegan feelings or care about 'veganphobia' if we're going to advance better treatment and well being of black people. Because apparently some vegans seem to think black people are a good group to step on in order to achieve their ends. To me, concern for animal lives is nothing but bad feelings vegans have when animals lose that life. They don't effect me in any way and animals dying or being killed doesn't objectively make the world any worse from a human stand point. So f vegan feelings I guess (my point, this isn't just feelings)
I Would Support Your Race Having Rights Whether You Are Human Or Not...
Because Humans Are Animals.
My question for people like tvt is this....
Suppose there is a fire in an apartment building and trapped inside is a human child and a cat....
You can ONLY save one...
The toddler or the cat.
Which are you saving and WHY?
"maybe you call yourself black?" whoa!
I wish this video was first before the other two. This makes a lot more sense. I am glad you explain a lot more.
I don’t think most people talk about anti-racism in terms of “be guilty because you’re white” but rather in terms of personal vs interpersonal, institutional, and structural racism. By being anti-racist, it means helping hold others accountable in interpersonal relationships, and advocating for the break down of systematic racism. By not being anti-racist in those spaces, you are contributing to racism in that sense. It doesn’t mean you are racist on a personal level, but it’s an acknowledgment that you are either contributing or not contributing to racism in larger spaces outside of your personal beliefs and choices. Even if you don’t think you have to be anti-racist, you can still acknowledge that people who are actively doing so are morally better than you, like Swayze mentioned as a part of consequentialism in this video.
Doesn’t absolve anything you’ve said before.
Copying this response to another here:
You don’t seem to understand that the homophobia argument was wrong because defending your argument using a moral standard you yourself don’t agree with is highly disingenuous. Making homophobic comments to “win” a “debate” is still homophobic even if you don’t hate gay people. If I throw a brick and it hits someone in the head, I still injured them even though my intent was just to throw the brick.
It would be wrong for me to then say “‘Ey, throwing’ bricks here! If you got hit, toughen up! And no; I’m not apologizing, because I’m an EXPERT LEVEL brick thrower. You wouldn’t understand brick throwing, at least not like *I* do!”
You can also be racist without the intent of being racist.
Also: Brandishing your grossly low empathy doesn’t make you look smarter.
And: It is disgusting (also racist and homophobic) to use BIPOC and LGBTQ+ people’s merit as legitimate human beings for debate fodder. If you belong to these groups, and think it’s okay, I’d say you have some internalized self-hatred to work through. Recognizing racism and homophobia isn’t using a victim mentality muscle. It’s being aware. If one can understand this concept in relation to animal suffering, why does it become so difficult for humans?
If you are part of the group with privilege, you don’t get to dictate what any of the oppressed view and oppression.
As for veganphobia? Call me when vegans are denied jobs based on their names, the school they went to, are quizzed on the validity of their degree, are shot in their own neighborhood when they’re just going for a jog, etc.
Swayze recently retwitted in agreement a post from PETA stating that humans should change their language around animals. PETA suggested that we stop using the word “sloth” to describe lazy people because it’s harmful to sloths. However, sloths were named after the word sloth. So apparently Swayze agrees animal words used as adjectives are speciest, but can’t compute racism and homophobia?(Ironically, “Bat” was used in Swayze’s comment to agree.)
Swayze is a woman (obviously) but it hasn’t stopped her from being misogynistic with her repeated statements about females’ declining sex drives as they get older. For someone who apparently loves science and research so much, you’d think she’d know declining libido for women is largely a myth, and this is more likely to happen to men. Hence, Swayze is a pick me.
I say this to explain that yes, you can be part of a group that is discriminated against, and ignore that in order to look like you’ve “transcended” that group and their “lowly” victim hood.
You can also demonstrate a willingness to understand one “ism” and ignore the existence of another “ism”.
What is disgusting about this series is the use of BIPOC and LGBTQ+ folx as props for a debate, as well as useless antagonism toward D’Anglo who is famous for his deeply researched, well-throughout videos. Swayze decided she was going to completely dismiss him as a “drama channel” and a “child” when he’s known for his valid social commentary. Of course, D’Angelo has misstepped before. And when he did? He made a video explaining his lack of understanding, his ageism, and apologized. He also admitted to his past transphobia in his Blaire White video.
(And Blaire White is another great example of a self-hater).
Humility is one of the ultimate signs of intelligence.
I just wish I could've known where you stood. As an angry, nearsighted nobody on the internet, I would've preferred if you'd only made this video. If you really wanted to make the trilogy of videos, I wish you would've started with this video; because, now that I know where you stand (somewhat), I'm more willing to watch the other videos about D'Angelo and iNabber being wrong about That Vegan Teacher
She doesn't need to, and if you want to get angry at things because you don't know or because it mentions topic that make you automatically angry, you are on every right to continue on that path, even if it leads to a miserable life.
@@MilesTeg87 Thanks. I'm glad to know that nobody cares about me. I already feel like a burden on everyone me, especially because I'm on the spectrum. I'm just a waste of life. I don't try to be a bad person. I'm so sorry. I'm just a pathetic excuse of a human. I'm gonna go cry now. Have a great night
@@anthonyramirez7272 I hope you slept well. Have you eaten enough? I care because I know how and when you're sad ... I'd say something positive, but it annoys me so. I care, otherwise why comment outside to make sure you're safe. I hope you meet people who consider you a treasure, not a burden. I'm sending you a virtual hug and a good morning kiss💗💕 p.s. animals are friendly, if you want a friend to see you as a miracle, you can choose a puppy 🐶 or a hen 🐔 maybe even a bunny 🐇
Yeah I think she would have been better off posting this video first too. But I'm not sure that she had this video fully formed when she started. I think sometimes she lets the drama roll so she can fully understand the criticisms before making her closing arguments. Just remember that social media isn't really real (when it comes to what other people say). It's fine to just delete posts you regret and take a break from the internet for a couple days.
@MdoubleHB How do you only have 49 comments on this channel? What sorcery is this?
Can you do an update video about her quest to “reclaim the n-word” (for herself)?
18:57 that really hit home
I gotta say, I did not expect a torrent analogy in this video lol
Well done as always 💚
I just don't see anyone who is either an acknowledged carnivore or omnivore (or even someone on the fence) watching her and being, like, "yes, veganism is right for me"! It's not about hurt feelings, it's going to have the opposite effect. She's going to make people defensive which means they'll dig in even harder. And, if they're on the fence, they're not going to want to be associated with her brand of rhetoric. I do get what she's trying to do, I just think she's doing more harm than good for her own cause.
Most of the nonvegan responses to her went out of their way to say positive things about veganism and normal vegans before going after her though. Maybe some reverse psychology.
@@mairzydoats4879 LOL. That's a good point - she does make "normal" vegans look good!
It's weird how much drama is in the vegan community.
I'm a whole ass adult and not knowledgeable enough (and too numerically illiterate) to use chronometer, kids have no chance
It’s not saving more animals when your just pissing off whole communities by making offensive videos. If anything it’s turning people off from the vegan community as a whole. The fact that you even took up for her and this type of offensive behavior is just disgusting.
Good job playing devils advocate instead of just denouncing bigotry.
People are more susceptible to propaganda when they're angry. On some level they learned that male chicks get ground alive.
I really enjoyed this. I love your perspective that we are all moral monsters and can do better. I figured this out early on after going vegan and it really helped me to lose the "vegan rage" that I feel drives a wedge between passionate vegans and people who eat meat.
Some of your comments on what is and isn't racist still don't sit right with me, you clearly draw a big distinction between what is racist and what is racially insensitive. While I feel the two are often one and the same, it is undoubtedly nuanced and I respect the fact you have clearly given your position a great deal of consideration.
Thanks for such an interesting video 💚
"They're vegan, so I'm not going to criticise them" - said no vegan RUclipsr ever.
You simply cannot impress That Vegan Teacher. Whenever your vegetarian, “It’s not good enough” Whenever your VEGAN, “be an animal right activist”. She isn’t grateful that people are at least trying to do good for animals. All she cares about is people viewing veganism her way and her way alone.
Can you please do a video on the healthline article “7 nutrients you can’t get from plants”
She mentioned deontological and consequentialist frameworks as examples of meta ethical frameworks. I was under the impression that meta ethics referred to things like Moral Realism, moral anti realism, etc. I might be wrong here, i dont really have in depth education in the topic, or i just missheard the video in which case, my bad.
She’s not even vegan. She was caught eating a Big Mac
i want like ten more videos on this drama
I love that the majority of her audience is anti vegan even though she's vegan.. It's hilarious. 😂😂😂
She's not really vegan to be fair
How can you say “you can’t use racism in your argument” while defending her “I can’t breathe song”? The song was racist BECAUSE it was “insensitive,” not one and not the other like you tried to claim. It was racist to take an issue happening to one marginalized group that she’s not even a part of and use that for her own agenda and propaganda for that agenda. I’m a vegan and obviously I support the vegan agenda but u would never do this for any other issue
So her calling people the n word......
what do vegans think of carnivorous animals?
That they are doing necessary harm in getting food for their own survival
Not related to this topic but wanted to share with you. My boyfriend is very averse to having any meals without some kind of meat (I have on many occasions made meals without any without saying anything (or sometimes very little meat) usually without his complaint, but I convinced him to try the Quorn nuggets and southern fried bits with me and he's an absolute convert and keeps reaching for them. So it's a very tiny thing I know, but if we're able to have something quorn say once a week instead of meat (plus he's having them as snacks) I think it'll be a good change. Small but hopefully long lasting and could lead to something more.
why does he want meat in every meal that's so weird
Have him try the quorn fishless sticks! They're really good dipped into follow your heart ranch! He might also like seitan, it's not meat but still gives the density and satiety of having meat
@@crazee4590 ooh thanks for the suggestions!
You can also try with Seitan and gardein (meatless/fishless foods)
It takes a lots of guts to not bend the knee to one's audience. Good on you UV.
I'm in an ethics class right now and this helped me so much! Thank you. 🙌🏻
Man even other vegans are essentially saying that vegan teacher is going too far