Oof, Ya’ll Are So Wrong On This One
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- Опубликовано: 23 сен 2021
- Do I Have an Anti-Fat Bias?
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The Angelina Jolie Effect
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Obesity, Mortality, & Medical Care
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www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
"neoliberal principles" my lord lol
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The National Weight Control Registry
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Hypothyroidism, PCOS, and Weight Gain
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Lose 10%
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I lost about 70 pounds last year dipping into the overweight category and not obese, most of my problems went away (including emotional problems). I have gained about half that back, some problems have returned, but not all. It is very clear that my weight is a significant contributing factor to the point that specific weights I feel better or worse. I’m getting back on track in a more sustainable and healthy diet, not just a caloric deficit. My quality of life was far better at my lowest weight, if you are also obese, please don’t let random people on the web convince you some medicine or test is the only thing that will improve what ails you when your weight will always be in the way of living your best life.
My experience is the same I heal much faster than I ever did as a bigger person. My recovery from a long day with the kids is much quicker which frees up my time to get on with the housework.
Going off your set point, which is usually caused by dieting but not always, is bad for your health. Yes.
are you vegan?
@@Sam-xr8ne no
@@mdoublehb6506 ALL cooked foodists die prematurely? Funny, nobody in my family eats a raw-food diet & the shortest lifespan I know of was my grandfather who passed away at 78, & much of that was due to him having Polio. Absolutist comments like that are almost always ridiculous.
Soon to be MD, we are trained to acknowledge to our patients how being obese can lead to health complications. We are taught to address it so as to not make it a cosmetic/superficial thing, but purely for medical purposes. It is wrong to dismiss anyone's concerns due to their weight; malnutrition can occur in skinny people, "normal" sized people, and obese people, so we have to consider the differential diagnoses that can manifest as a result of lack of proper nutrition or body habitus (habitus = physical characterization of the body) in order to find the root issue. If it is then found after considering these differential diagnoses that my patient's increased body fat percentage is indeed the root cause of, let's say, their high blood pressure, then we could address that and move forward with the treatment plan. I could not imagine being such a lazy physician that I didn't even try to use my brain to come up with at least 3 non-weight related things that could explain a condition.
It's good to hear future MDs are now being trained for this. Physician should be able to think critically and investigate on the root causes. If being a MD consisted of "going for the low hanging fruits" (her words), we wouldn't need MDs. We would just use an app.
You give me hope for healthcare and my traumatic experiences with doctors 🙏🏻✨
@@danika6850 thank you! I know, trust me, trying to fight the system feels like a losing battle but I keep telling myself the bad ones will retire soon lol
@@Logan-if4ue thank you
@@AiguilleVoodoo yess thisssssss. Fucking low hanging fruit man.. that's not how to treat someone lmaoo
I knew there was going to be some fallout from this. I can’t get behind it. I’m a fat vegan and it’s because I don’t exercise. I love myself, but I don’t love that part of myself. I’m not less of a person and I’m not bad, as you point out; I’m unhealthy. I’m fat because I’m unhealthy and should do more to overcome that, not because being fat is bad, but because being fat is unhealthy.
I don't think this contradicts the video. You don't owe anyone beauty or thinness for the sake of it but in my opinion you do owe health to your loved ones and society.
Edit: i think if you're in a country where health care is on the taxpayer, you definitely owe your society and economy health. It's unfair to be unhealthy when it's preventable because you are taking resources away from people with health conditions that aren't preventable.
@@mushy470 I am agreeing with her video (and I also agree with you). I and other overweight people who can change their health owe it to ourselves to be healthy. No need to blame other people, or even really ourselves-just realize there’s a problem and work to fix it.
@@mushy470 it’s just easier to give excuses and attack people. Easier isn’t better though. I’m getting into fitness slowly and it accomplishes significantly more than complaining.
@@christophersmith4438 I'm getting into fitness too. I don't look fat but I guess I'm skinny fat and definitely could be healthier.
@@mushy470 good luck with it! Doing it for the right reason is the way to go.
I’m underweight and my doctor says most of my health concerns are because of my weight and that weight gain will help alleviate a lot of my symptoms. It definitely does go both ways
Yes!!!!Yet NO one is saying "we need thin (underweight) acceptance." Being under or over weight is BAD for your health period... Being nice (while we shouldn't bully people)doesn't change that. Diseases don't care about your feelings.
Obnoxious daughter of a doctor here- I would also like to point out that in some cases an obese person’s obesity makes some treatment plans impossible. My dad is an oncologist and surgery is sometimes impossible because of the weight of the patient. He will suggest weight loss so that his patients are capable of receiving the life-saving care they need.
Small critique from a long time fan: I think you're too quick to brush something off as "having no evidence." I agree with you that we can't give anecdotes too much weight, and that meta-analyses, controlled experiments, etc. are extremely valuable tools for informed public policy. But you shouldn't just brush off things like survey data as having no value at all. For example, we mostly only have survey evidence to study workplace sexual harassment, and I doubt you would respond to a survey about women feeling fear in their workplaces with "We don't have any actual evidence for workplace sexual harassment." You often talk about the importance of messaging for effective activism. I'm inclined to think that you'd get to your audience more effectively if instead of "This isn't science!" you said "We should look into why fat people are disinclined to go to the doctor, and figure out the cause of that fear/shame, even though it doesn't affect the proper health care plan."
I agree with your comment. I think there is a difference between "there is no evidence, so it doesn't exist" and "there is no current evidence (which could be because x, y, and z), so we should try to set up studies and research to look into this potential issue". While anecdotal evidence isn't proof of a systemic problem, there are so many people with similar stories that it should make the medical community take note and do further research.
I'm confident she would brush it off as women having subjective perceptions that could be based in reality or culture, confirmation bias, catastrophizing and seeing more in a situation than there actually is. For example I'm black and I know alot of black people who perceive something as racist when in reality it's just a the same consequences or circumstances everyone else has to deal with. If you perceive the world or your position in it a certain way there can be a confirmation bias developed that sees the victimhood everywhere and in everything.
@@katcampbell9205 If there's no evidence we can only speculate which is useless ultimately because speculation is influenced by our personal psychology, religion, culture, and personal beliefs, also known as a bias.
@@forestgreen9002 I agree 100% as a Black woman. I'm also guilty.
Feelings matter over facts??? F......ck. U scare me.
My husband is obese and I am normal weight, but neither of us has gotten very exceptional care from doctors. I think people expect a lot more from healthcare than is realistic. Or maybe America just has shit healthcare.
@Sarah Biggs Yeah, exactly. I've gone from obese to normal weight. You know how much testing doctors have ordered for my irregular periods, regardless of what I weighed? None. Ever. Take birth control or go home. That's always been the only treatment offered.
@@disregardable i feel like you ladies might have something in common unrelated to weight
Ding ding ding, your last sentence is correct!
Bias in treatment nearly killed me. Multiple doctors told me to just increase exercise and reduce calories to alleviate my symptoms. By the time I got needed care, I was severely anemic, not menstruating, over- exercising, undereating, and nearly dead, literally. A CBC could have flagged that there were bigger problems. I did start losing weight, after four necessary surgeries, removal of 9 tumors, iron infusions, and proper diagnosis (not diabetes). Sure, there are good doctors. But, way more blew me off than gave solid treatment, and while that's anecdotal, it's hard not to be passionate when it's literally life or death. You said it's important to ask how often it happens. The answer is, it happens a lot.
I've heard SO MANY stories like this. Statistics works fine when you play with dices, when you play with human lives you can't just rely on statistics. It obviouslly leads to avoidable deaths.
Exactly...
Had a similar experience in the family. It's so wild people just straight up don't believe it happens.
@@ncjxbshj people believe it happens, she acknowledged that, but claiming it happens on the large scale that people do based on these anecdotes isn't supported by the evidence. Would a world where everyone received the correct diagnosis first time be ideal, of course, but that just can't happen. If you watch the video she makes that point
I'm so sorry you had to go through this! Hope you are on your way to recovery now. I seriously don't get why there are (so many, apparently) doctors out there who manage to forget to rule out dangerous issues first, even if a patients weight is likely at least part of the issue. That's gambling with peoples lives!
Something clicked in my brain after watching your videos lately. Cut back on junk food, started working out again, and closely monitoring my caloric intake. Thanks for your vids.
I had such a hard time getting doctors to take my heart symptoms seriously because I was a 'healthy-underweight" bmi and in my 20's. Even when I told them I've had an eating disorder for 10 years and never exercised and would pass out from low heart rate and cardiologists would tell me everything was fine I just had a heart rate of an "athlete". Even after I was diagnosed with a heart arrhythmia they couldn't be bothered to schedule the heart ablation. It took a doctor from the ER after I was taken in an ambulance from passing out at the the store, to call to get them to finally help me.
Thats horrifying, I hope you are doing better now!
Just an editing suggestion, can you throw in some quote/unquotes in your writing/speaking if you're doing a just-audio piece? I tend to be multitasking while having your content on. Since I"m not reading the quote that's up on the screen line by line, I tend to get lost as to who's making what point. A lot of time I can tell by vocal inflection or, of course, when you cut back to yourself, but in this mainly-audio format, a bit more directness and clarity would helpful, like a quote/unquote or setting up the ideas more with "this commenter said '...' and my response to that would be..."
Using type 2 diabetes as an example when it's a simple A1C blood test to diagnose doesn't make sense in your argument.
To claim that a simple blood test is too much for a doctor to administer is silly. It should be the first test to give to an obese patient to rule out the most common diagnosis than look closer into other causes.
Edit: I didn't catch this in my original watch. You said "if someone comes in with high blood glucose". This requires a test to verify. Jasmin's article specifically talks about no testing of anything whatsoever. It comes across like a strawman argument from you.
Yeah but if you are fat for long enough you are at a higher risk of health complications
@@marisellopez6022 I don't agree with fat acceptance, but if someone thinks they're diabetic they need to be tested.
@@firstbornunicorn6619 do you know anyone who was overweight who wasn’t tested for diabetes when they thought they had it? Cause I sure don’t. Even I’ve been tested and I’m 5ft 90lbs of muscle 🥴
@@-MaryPoppins- i can actually speak on it. I told my doctor multiple times I wanted a diabetes test because I’m overweight and have health anxiety so I wanted to know. She told me she couldn’t because they don’t do testing like that as often like yearly it was only every 5 years. So she told me no. I had to see other doctors to finally get approved for a diabetes test which fortunately came out negative & everything was cleared. Still why couldn’t my primary care provider just order one. I believe some doctors just don’t care about fat people & assume every fat person has diabetes so they don’t bother with testing. I had to beg and ask for a diabetes test. Your ignorant comment is very wrong.
I think the issue with this topic is that people are very emotionally invested. The reality is that doctors are trained to think of horses when they hear hoofs, and not of zebras. They need to be able to treat the majority with the resources they have. Real life is not dr House. However some doctors could probably improve on compassionate ways to describe the need for weight loss.
Sure, in theory losing weight would solve a lot of people's problems. But since losing and maintaining a lower weight is so hard and rare, perhaps it would be better to meet people where they're at?
When you know that, say, statistically, 90% of people with health problem x would benefit from losing weight, but that, also statistically, only about 10% of people who diet manage to lose and maintain a healthy weight, then perhaps telling patients to just lose weight may mean not treating over 90% of patients effectively after all?
THIS. As someone who came from a medical family. People need to realize that there are only so many RESOURCES and that EVERYONE needs access to the SAME RESOURCES. My broken bone or brain bleed needs the cat scan MORE than your condition MOST likely caused by weight. Triage exist for a reason.
@@inru6253 only people who never truly put effort in losing weight and onlye starved themselves gained the weight back
This is FA rethoric. Its invalid and stupid
@@alex.profi27 @miss_steph_616 Some data backing up that theory? I understand that telling people the truth about the necessity to lose weight is important.
But maybe send them to a dietician, take the challenge that losing weight poses seriously. It's hard as hell. When all a doctor says is "just lose weight, bye", that's not very effective treatment for most patients.
Unnecessary tests also lead to more unnecessary and expensive tests. If you do more tests you'll diagnose more disease earlier. But you'll also find inconclusive results that require more tests or even surgery and turn out to be nothing. Those tests are expensive, time consuming and emotionally taxing. Statistics tells us where the trade off is.
Ok so money > preventon and early diagnosis of disease? Like most things are very expensive, on a government level, i find that life saving things like healthcare are worth spending on ffs
THIS.
@@martinamakek9608 It's not just about money, it's also extremely emotionally taxing, especially with inconclusive results or even false positives. It's not that ignorance is bliss-it's always good to examine early signs-it's that some symptoms are so common in non-life threatening illnesses that it'd be irresponsible to assume it's an early sign of something extremely serious, order a bunch of tests, put the patient through extreme emotional distress while they wait for the tests and their results, just for things to come out negative/inconclusive, or worse yet false positive that prompts unnecessary surgeries, medications, etc.
This is the trade off: you could wreck your mental with every single discomfort, or you could wait for more concrete signs at the risk of catching the problem late.
@@martinamakek9608 lets say you get an unneeded colonoscopy due to demanding it.....the prep is brutal on the body and the test itself is so invasive you need to be given fentanyl (a powerful opiod that is heavily abused in the streets).. Since it was unneeded you get NO USEFUL results...
All of that just for something you did NOT need.
THAT is the problem....
As someone who isnt even overweight but has several health issues absolutely MOST doctors focus on weight when it has nothing to do with what you're coming in for. Almost ALL the doctors I've seen have told me I need to lose weight even tho my BMI is in the "normal" range but because I was wearing winter clothes they would mention im "a few lbs overweight and try losing it". I'm not going to sit here and say that being overweight doesnt cause health issues cause I'm sure it does but I just wanted to put my 2 cents in as a "normal" weight person even I get told by doctors to lose weight even tho I didnt need to lose any and had nothing to do with why I was coming in.
I know what you mean. I was 4 lbs over the arbitrary weight that pushes you into “overweight” and I got this huge long lecture about dieting, exercise etc and all I went in for was refills on my meds. But because they weigh you during every appointment that ended up being the entire doctors visit. 4lbs? Come on. I think it’s average bodies that are punished by diet culture et . We’re not skinny enough to be accepted by societal culture but we understand that being severely overweight or obese leads to other health problems. I just want acceptance that an average body is still beautiful. No matter how much I weight I lost it would never change my body shape. I will never have skinny calves. I’ve seen people twice my size with no cellulite on their thighs yet I have cellulite. It’s that sort of acceptance we need. Not that being super skinny is ok or that being really obese is ok. Neither is.
@@mdoublehb6506 Sure, but what fruits did people in colder climates where there were bananas or papayas eat back in the day. 20 apples? Where did they get the required amounts of fruit?
@@mdoublehb6506 I’m not even vegetarian. I do not believe in veganism.
Thats like a smoker saying that its offensive to assume that breathing problems are because they smoke
as a smoker and former-fat person, i HIGHLY endorse this analogy
If obesity is purely behavior driven then the critical issue is one of psychology. It is not good psychology (and therefore not good medicine) to tell someone the self evident
-that they need to lose weight-handing them a bill, and telling them to get out of your office.
And what if their obesity is the direct cause of the problem? Just because someone doesn’t want to accept the truth doesn’t mean the doctor should have to ignore the elephant in the room.
Yes I agree - but what is the alternative? They can't sugar coat the real issue, sometimes people do need the hard truth.
@@PumpkinMozie well as I implied, you need to refer them to some sort of weight loss nutritionist and or counselor and or set them up with a personal trainer and treat the behavioral issue. But in our (in mine and Swaze’s) culture you are supposed bootstrap your psychological cognitive and educational and economic problems, but if you have a physical disease that does not apparently touch on the mind or is not limited to your non-economic performance in society, then it’s ok to treat problem that and give you support.
@@kirstenwilliams9246 the alternative is to say “your weight probably is causing this, but we’re going to do some rudimentary tests to confirm that and look for other problems am here’s an appointment for a nutritionist, one with a counselor, and one with a personal trainer and we got you a gym membership.” Now we billed your insurance $1000 for the visit, tests and first set of follow appointments and the rest of the treatment is covered with no co-pays.” You know because obesity is life-threatening even if you aren’t in the ICU yet.
THIS!! If doctors said, "You need to lose weight, here are some therapy and dietitian appts, and lets check to make sure something deeper isnt wrong" then so many more people would feel heard.
People don't see how unethical it is for doctors to dive into invasive treatments before addressing lifestyle influence. If your doctor insists on expensive tests which cost you a lot of your time to take off to come in and money to pay when it could have been avoided by changing lifestyle, how would you feel about this? Probably very upset
And that's a good argument for universal healthcare, not a good argument for your point.
@@AiguilleVoodoo i agree in uni health care but giving people a buch of unnecessary tests would still cost the system money which is a concern. also the pt would have to take off of work which costs them money as the US is now.
That's fair but I think there's a difference between jumping straight to doing a bunch of tests and just asking a few extra questions about the patient's symptoms and family history.
I'm not obese but I've had the experience of going to the doctor and being told "yeah it's probably x" without them asking any further questions about my symptoms that would have been relevant.
For example the vast majority of people with a flaky scalp condition have seborrheic dermatitis, so that's what I had been told I had for years and years by multiple doctors and dermatologists. Turns out, if only they had ever asked "do you get similar flaking anywhere on your body" or just checked my eyebrows they would have realized I had psoriasis. I honestly hadn't made the connection on my own and it takes 1 second to ask a question.
@@mdoublehb6506 Seriously, I'm curious, are you not back in school yet?
Don't you have a paper to write or something?
@@AiguilleVoodoo Finally! I keep seeing arguments like "expensive invasive tests"...and I'm like almost every test in my country is for free and does not burden our system at all. I'll take a test or two that requires a needle or an x ray rather than just be told "get more sleep" "stop smoking" "lose/gain weight". That lifestyle advice should accompany treatment and a possible diagnosis, not be the be all end all. Imagine someone showing signs of diabetes just being told to lose weight and they end up losing a toe too due to their condition being left untreated for so long. The fact ppl are so brainwashed into thinking medical laziness and negligence is ok is mind boggling.. No offence but when I see this reasoning I think only in America...
Okay, I mostly agree with you message on this topic. But when you say that shaming fat people would be okay because the net effect for society would be positive... It's just yikes, to be honest. There's no need to shame when talking openly about the subject is enough.
She’s not just saying shaming fat people would be okay because the net effect for society would be positive, she’s saying “if we had sufficient evidence that some amount of shame towards fat people actually led to consistent weight loss and therefore more positive health outcomes (for them (and therefore society), then it wouldn’t be net harmful.” She’s definitely not saying we should shame if openly talking about it is enough - that’s the whole point, we don’t know if it is. She specifically says that she errs on the side of niceness without enough evidence. Aside from that it’s just basic utilitarianism, she’s trying to maximize utility here
@@katherineworden551 if you read what I wrote, and don't think too hard about it, you'll realized that your quote is exactly the same as what I said. I understand what UnV said. I don't agree with her although it's hypothetical.
If we were always to reason in terms of utilities and net worth to society, lockdown due to covid would have never happened since not more than 3% of the infected die from the virus and they're almost always over 60 yo. Keeping our normal lifestyles would have spared us the current world economic crisis, and the rest of the consequences.
This is my big problem with people who say well being fat is bad for your so we should discourage people from being fat is that while I do agree with that you should say that being fat is not good for your health, what they are m saying is fat shaming is okay which is SOOOOO WRONG on so many levels.
Firstly,
Shaming people doesn't make people want to lose weigh it just makes them stressed which either makes them gain more weight or get a eating disorder or some other mental health problem. Shaming people never works.
Secondly,
Even if it does work the ends do not justify the means. There are many ways to deal with this issue many do not include plunging millions of people into depression. Like I think there are better ways around this.
Finally,
People who are body positive do not say ignore your doctors because you should be who you are saying that you shouldn't shame obese people its just not okay. I think a lot of body positive people will lose weight if they are at risk but that does not give you the right to shame people into losing weight.
@COIN that’s not what you wrote. She does not say that you should shame when openly talking about the subject is enough.
I have not seen a comprehensive CBA showing that lockdowns are net negative once you account for the risk of long COVID and viral mutations that are more dangerous and infectious. You must have seen one in order to make that claim though. Could you cite it?
@@katherineworden551 you didn't see that account yet because the crisis of covid isn't over, but you do certainly know about all the decisions that have been made up until now to deal with the crisis, based on what we know about the virus. Fortunately, we did not reason in terms of net utility to society
I wish MORE doctors would refer obese people to therapist/psychologist as the root of eating disorders are mental imbalance and addiction!
This issue having insurance that will cover it. Other than tricare I have never seen health insurance that covers non surgical treatments specific for obesity. So you have to go the back door way and see a mental health professionals to treat something covered like depression or anxiety and hope the provider also has a background in disordered eating
It only helps if the person goes. Its unlikely they will....just look at how many anorexic need to be hospitalized to get mental health treatment.
I love how you just don't take any shit. If people gang up on you, you let them have it. You don't let people get away with pressuring you into telling them what they want to hear, that's why this channel is so rare and valuable.
I mean...good for her for admitting that she thinks fat people are less worthy, I guess...
@@CaytLandis And that's a total mischaracterization of what she actually did. Where do you people come from, lol.
@@marcinmichalski9950 It's not a mischaracterization she says it around the 23 minute mark listen from there and you'll hear her explicitly say so. I'll pull up the transcript to copy paste a direct quote.. around 25 mins in:
"let's let this person die it's too expensive to save them we need the money to save 10 other people. Triage is not cruel not immeasurably so not at all. it's the right thing to do" she goes on to say " 25:16
what is cruel is letting the system crash under the (it's not crashing)
burden of overtreatment in the name of
justice i'm sorry but we can't devote
200% of the medical resources the entire
country needs to less than half of the
population because they had whatever
combination of unfortunate environment &
genetics to avoid the situation" ( we absolutely can provide the healthcare those people need, and this opinion of hers is discrimination)
23:58
" human beings
have a price tag in terms of what they
provide to society
and what it's worth to spend on them"
Keep in mind that we absolutely can make it so everyone has access to healthcare, there is no risk of collapse, it might require a slightly higher budget for healthcare, but I think it would be more ethical to be willing to pay a little more taxes so that doctors don't have to pick and choose which patients are worth what we have to spend on them, who they will "let die" .. this opinion of hers is dehumanizing 50% of americans and many people around the world as less deserving of healthcare.
@@emilily6513 Nothing wrong with what she said and she didn't say what you impute. Problems with the listening comprehension are on you. Sha talls about the reality of the economy and that with limited resources we can't spend infinite or huge amount of them to chase unicorns of illnesses because some people can't be bothered to lose weight. That's the "price tag" she's talking about, it's not worth in a moral or spiritual or whatever sense, just economics. You just actively seek things to be offended by, lol.
Nobody ganged up on her. Many many people "misunderstood" what she said and politely alerted her to it. Instead of reconsidering her wording and trying to understand how the misunderstanding came about, she accuses people of not actually watching or listening and does this in a super condescending way. I personally am unsubscribing, this is not the first time she has responded to criticism in this way. She is stubborn af. But this is not what I take issue with. You can be headstrong and stick to your opinions and beliefs without belittling other people or positions which is what she does regularly. So, I guess you can applaud her for not taking shit, I personally am done with taking shit from her.
I'm sorry, but that argument that doctors care more about healthy-weight individuals with menstrual problems is absolute BS. I've always been on the lower end of healthy and when I went to my doctor (several, in fact) complaining of vomiting for days on end and being severely anaemic because I was losing so much blood every month, all they told me was to "take a Panadol and eat some beef." The issue of symptoms not being taken seriously by doctors is a different issue entirely. You can't assume that when a doctor doesn't give a sh*t it's because of your weight, they do that to so many patients because they're pressed for time and the healthcare system can't bear the expense of testing for every complaint.
Agreed. It took me 17 years to get a diagnosis despite reporting from my teenage years how much pain/lack of quality of life I had. It came down to my Drs lack of knowledge on the subject. Finally saw a specialist a few years ago.
@@sarahfox1504 as the mum of a teen with cramping pain every month, may I ask what your diagnosis ended up being?
@@da1stamericus endometriosis and adenomyosis
Also for period stuff: it's just plain misogyny
Bullying is 100% wrong, & I'll never condone it. However, people these days always want to be the victim. I swear, every which way people hate being criticized has resulted in the generation of new "phobic" labels (people don't seem to know what that actually means to begin with). The "body-positive" movement has branched out into stuff like "health at every size" & other slogans & platitudes which exist solely to rationalize being overweight & doing nothing about it.
I’m a med student and I worked in a Gastro care unit in the holidays. The doctors would talk to every alcoholic and every smoker about the health implications and maybe quitting. The only thing I never saw was them approaching a fat person. Which is a shame in my opinion because obese people are so much more care intensive. I respect all kinds of bodies but the moment you and two other nurses on a tight schedule have to carry a obese person from their bed onto a toilet chair it makes you think. The labour is backbreaking and obese people are more work for the nurses.
@@mdoublehb6506 this is a new troll. Typically you stick to cooked food
@@mdoublehb6506 The first "yourself" in that sentence is extraneous. Apologize yourself? As opposed to what, apologizing someone else?
@@mdoublehb6506 stop trolling on her page and all of her comments. Geezus
This is kind of unrelated, but I don’t understand why Lizzo takes all the heat for body positivity, she’s been on diets while in the spotlight. She’s cried on live a bunch of times because she’s obviously insecure about it if you get to know her.
Fat people in general pick up way more stigma than smokers/ drug users in my own experience. That’s coming from a smoker/ drug user who has almost never had a problem with people commenting on my looks. The only time was when I was overweight/ closer to the highest end of healthy BMI for a couple years
She makes videos eating a lot of stuff she should not be eating and then cries becasue clearly she does not feel fine being that big. It really is not that hard to lose weight especially for people who have the time and money.
@@Peopleofthesun386 I guess it does depend on your psyche too
Lizzo is a weird case, she promotes how much she loves her body and is a proud fat person then you see her on her live chats crying about how miserable she is being fat. It’s like when you are in a situation and can’t fix it you double down on being fat.
@@trayas2272 Sadly (& I mean no offense by this comment), most "body-positive" people who go out of their way to talk about how much they "don't care" about being overweight are overcompensating for the fact that they're dying inside-not only physically, but also emotionally. They're just not willing to get real with themselves.
@@Peopleofthesun386 Lots of people want to lose weight and keep it off, only very few people can.
That's the definition of hard.
As an obese person you are spot on. When I lost a lot of weight symptoms I didn’t even know we’re from my obesity resolved from the weight loss.
Its life changing, congrats on the weight loss
I had a friend who was in a lot of abdominal pain. She was told it was due to being overweight. So she lost 20 lbs in a few months and was still missing work due to pain. Turned out to be kidney stones.
this could have been diagnosed with a simple blood test. if she went in for a normal check up w her primary along w blood work this would have come to light. not blaming her but this story seems to be off...
@@ieatbookz Doctors don't listen to fat people sometimes
@@mdoublehb6506 is spamming this comment on every video all you do?
@@mdoublehb6506 I can see your comment history.
"Animal eaters don't deserve to live"
is some of your other ones on this channel, troll
@@mdoublehb6506 I have seen you from time to time popping up like this on UVs videos, spamming the same things on various comments. I also remember you saying you have mental health issues which cause spin outs like this - bit worried to see you doing it again, are you ok?
I have chronic pain due to a couple of conditions I live with. Being very restricted in terms of types and amount of physical activities I am able to do due to these conditions I have gained weight in recent years. Despite having diagnoses I find doctors just see my weight and blame that for my pain when the weight gain came long after the pain.
My friend is very lean. She also has chronic pain conditions. She experiences similar weight related comments from doctors but she is told that gaining some weight will solve all her medical problems.
In both our cases weight is a factor and is affecting discovering and treating the root cause of our conditions. It is very frustrating.
unnatural vegan's baby's hand is in the video, canceled
can’t we just acknowledge that the US health care system isn’t ideal without all this bs >:( ?
I seriously just love this channel
Omg you are so condescending in this video! I did watch the diabetes part (now multiple times) and I still think you misrepresented the first line! You clearly state "jasmine criticizes the very idea of doctors suggesting weight loss to patients" when this is NOT what she states in the line that you are referring to. She may do this generally speaking but not in the part that you underlined and showed in the clip. In the part the comments were referring to you significantly omit that the emphasis of that statement was "without further analysis". And yes you kind of touch on that with the diabetes example but it can still appear (as it did to many viewers!!!) that you did not actually get the point of what Jasmine was originally getting at. So, when so many people "misunderstand" what you said, maybe you could think about how that misunderstanding came about instead of arrogantly assuming we did not listen properly or do not actually think about what we are writing or - by the tone of your hyper judgemental voice - are somehow idiots. Maybe YOU could consider your wording and at least acknowledge: "I understand how people could have misunderstood this but what I actually said was xyz". Or "yeah, I see what the reactions were referring to but I feel it is unjustified because xyz". Coming on here, titling the video "off, y'all are so wrong" and then ramble on about how people allegedly did not even bother to watch the first couple minutes, instead of just taking a second to consider your own part in the misunderstanding, is not a good look. This is not the first time that I have felt that you deal with (polite!) criticism exceptionally poorly.
Apparently she's always right and everyone else is wrong 🙄
Another anecdote from a thin person. It took me 9 years to get a PCOS diagnosis because I'm not overweight. When I first went to a doctor at age 18, believing I had this condition as I had no periods, had acne since age 12 and was then starting to have issues with excess hair on my face, I was told I just need to GAIN weight (I was at the lower end of the BMI scale) as that was probably why I had no periods and the excess hair. I didn't get sent for proper tests until I was 27 and even then I still got comments about my weight because 'people with PCOS are usually overweight' and my GP couldn't give me any advice on how to manage my condition as losing weight is the advice he would normally give people and I didn't qualify for that advice.
When I had my transvaginal US the sonographer said to me 'you're the thinnest person I've seen to actually have cystic ovaries'. This is how deeply ingrained a condition such as PCOS is with weight issues.
So yeah, if I was overweight I would have been diagnosed almost a decade earlier than I was and the commenter on the last video who thinks someone who is thin would be sent for tests over a person who is overweight (for this condition) clearly isn't speaking from experience or evidence 🤷♀️.
I hear you, but I see this as another side of the same problem. I don't know the commenter who actually made that argument, but I admit, it ignored the other side.
To me, this shouldn't be a discussion of who has it worse, but about stereotypes that we repeat over and over and that doctors are not immune to - but that impact real people. At least if you don't necessarily hear those stereotypes, you may be able to advocate for yourself better.
And repeating those stereotypes we are doing a disservice to everyone.
And on the flip side, as a moderately overweight person I walked into my first ever gyno appointment at age 18 with a whole speech prepared on why I believed I had PCOS. It was unnecessary. Before I had even sat down the doctor told me he wanted to test me for a condition called PCOS and asked me if my periods were irregular.
YES, THANK YOU! My experience also!!!!
I'm going through something similar. I'm thin, runner, low bp, good cholesterol, don't drink, don't smoke, and eat very healthy. When I go to the doctor with symptoms, they are void of easy answers like "lose weight" or "stop smoking". Because I don't fit the expected picture of a sick patient, they tend to ignore my symptoms and refuse tests (beyond basic blood work). I have to advocate for my own care and seek out second opinions.
Yes my siblings and I have pcos but I was diagnosed 3 years LATER than them because I did NOT gain weight but they did. So an anti thin bias? Of course NOT.
If you are thin and eat too much or don't exercise, you are at risk for health problems, if you are fat and eat too much or don't exercise, you are at risk for health problems. Period. Doctors are not always the best sources of dietary advice either. It's changed a little bit and it does depend on a specialty, but they aren't typically nutritionists. The ones that have a stronger background in nutrition are probably more likely to say - we need to get you on a diet of less sugar or might suggest the Mediterranean diet or something. Others are probably gonna blindly just say "you need to lose weight". A more knowledgeable approach probably would do the job. But, with fat stigma and fat-shaming in our culture, we have some rightly sensitive people. I think we need some adjustments in our culture, but I think directing this at doctors is misguided. Yeah, we treat fat people, especially fat women pretty terribly. I mean, ever see a love story in a movie where the leading lady is fat and it's not about her being fat? There is an issue here, but I see this more as a people problem rather than a doctor problem.
I'm so glad you addressed these comments. Fat acceptance and especially Health At Every Size are causing so much unnecessary damage and pain by painting weight loss as something either impossible or evil, it's insane.
@@mdoublehb6506 proof?)
@@nothingnothing9470 That's just a troll. He'll probably tell me to "apologize for my insolence" yet again lmao.
The comments were not made by fat acceptance or HAES proponents though. No one was saying that it's okay to be obese. That's not what people had an issue with.
I think a lot of people just don't understand how impactful too much or too little weight can be.
@@mdoublehb6506 I guess you're probably a bot
25:15
Bear with me, I’m not trying to strawman, or play gotcha, I’m just trying to reconcile the fact that losing weight is so hard with fat peoples anecdotal claims of feeling unheard or dismissed.
Imagine someone with undiagnosed ADHD goes to their GP complaining of fatigue and insomnia due to racing thoughts, along with some other symptoms. Do you think the doctor is going to prescribe sleep and leave it at that?
No. They’ll ask questions, and hopefully try to get to the underlying cause of _why_ their patient can’t sleep. At the end of asking questions, hopefully they’ll give the patient a treatment plan, or refer them to a mental health professional who can treat the underlying cause.
It’s not abnormal for people to struggle with their weight creeping up every now and again, just like it’s not abnormal for people to struggle with their house getting messy, or their sleep schedule being thrown off.
When things get severely out of hand, it’s usually because something is severely wrong. There’s a huge difference between someone’s weight creeping up because they’ve genuinely been slacking on their diet/exercise, and someone being emotionally dependent on food, or having an impulse control disorder, or having a trauma-based relationship with food, etc.
I don’t think you mean this, because I didn’t hear you say it, but I think a lot of people hear the argument for “calories in, calories out” and think that you’re saying that there’s nothing doctors can do for fat patients beyond telling them to lose weight. That’s not true. They have an obligation to offer patients the tools to lose the weight, or refer them to someone who can offer them those tools.
Of course there’s a degree of personal responsibility, but I hope that doctors are at least telling their obese patients about their options, even if they don’t directly give them a pill to take or a number to call.
I think it’s also important to emphasize that a condition can be harmful to the patient without being a moral failing on the patient’s part. Most conditions are that way. I know that sounds like I’m trying to coddle people and manage their feelings for them, but I think it’s the quickest way to get people to realize that we don’t hate fat people- we want them to suffer less.
She says at the end of her video that she thinks fat people are less worthy of healthcare because they contribute less and cost more than thin people so I'm assuming she doesn't think it's a doctor's moral responsibility to provide adequate care if that care "costs too much".
What are the tools to lose weight that doctors can offer? From my understanding, we don't really have a lot of evidence on the best ways to help people lose weight, and that is part of the problem.
@@liammarshall-butler3384 Well, calories in/calories out is the only way to lose the weight, but a lot of people try & go too hard at it early on, & the cravings & energy problems become unbearable. The best way to lose weight is to be in a moderate caloric deficit, not an extreme one.
@@liammarshall-butler3384 part of the reason we don’t have a lot of evidence for stuff that works for everyone is the same reason that we don’t have a cure for cancer. The cause of the problem is different for everyone, so the solution is going to be different.
Someone who has binge eating disorder is going to need a different treatment plan from someone who has ADHD and seeks dopamine through food. Both are going to be more complicated than “eat healthy and exercise”. They’ll probably require a diet plan, at least, different types of therapy/coaching, and maybe even inpatient treatment or medication. That’s why it’s so important to get to the core issue.
@@CaytLandis I don’t like that she said that. I think there’s reason to believe that if people’s real problems were being addressed, then 1) obesity wouldn’t be an epidemic anymore, and 2) people who currently contribute less to the healthcare system would be empowered to contribute as much as their peers.
I agree with not running unnecessary X-rays and blood tests on people when their symptoms are consistent with obesity. I’m really more in favor of helping people manage the behaviors that cause obesity, which I see as a serious mental health problem, not a cop out for doctors to chalk up diet failure to low adherence.
I thought your first video was pretty balanced. You recognized that there probably is an issue with treating fat people with respect and being dismissive but also acknowledging the system that doctors work in. They have to start with the most probably cause first even if it isn’t the answer in the end.
I saw several people bring up fertility in the comment section. There is a huge correlation with weight (both under and over) and fertility. The first thing your doctor should advise you of is to gain/lose weight depending on your circumstances. Why get poked and prodded by and REI if it’s just weight related.
I do think it’s sucks that doctors can be dismissive and I do think fat people are dismissed more than average or even under weight people. But even the most compassionate, best listening doctor is probably going to start with weight if any of your symptoms could be related to weight.
Losing weight got rid of 99% of my PCOS symptoms, despite only being slightly overweight at the time. The doctor actually didn’t even try to suggest weight loss, just prescribed birth control ... which is a bandaid solution to PCOS anyway. Healthy diet & adequate exercise CAN definitely solve a lot of our problems 🤷🏻♀️
So because it worked for you ir will work for others?
@@nocause5395 obviously it’s not the answer for everyone, but PCOS is very often tied to lifestyle. I would say anyone with a PCOS diagnosis should examine their lifestyle, diet, exercise habits, etc., before they turn to birth control or other ‘treatments’ that mask symptoms without actually resolving the root cause of the problem.
I remember back when I was anorexic, being told I shouldn't gain any more weight and even told multiple times that losing weight would be a good thing for me. I was 12, never underweight, at a healthy weight for most of my recovery, and then slightly overweight. My fear of food was increased drastically by those doctors visits, where I was sometimes basically told it was better to stay anorexic and malnourished than be fat again. I do think that a lot of doctors have an internal fat bias that leaves certain people hurt and even certain medical ailments untreated. Also I'm personally now scared of doctors which is definitely not a good thing, huh?
@@mdoublehb6506 I love how you don't even care that I talked about my mental illness and my eating disorder, basically poured my heart out and that's what you say in response to that. Just leave Swayze and our community alone. Don't you have better things to do? Go get your bananas and stop harassing us in our comment section.
I don't like being fat but I am in a very confused place. I have PCOS and I track my food, steps, and exercise with a fit bit. Even accounting for some error, I'm still burning much more than I'm taking in. I have told my Dr this a few times, but he recently recommended weight loss surgery. I was furious. My hormones are out of whack, and surgery is not going to change the root cause of my problems. My weight is a symptom of my disorder. BTW, I was not fat when I first experienced my PCOS symptoms
If you want to lose weight stop counting your steps and exercise towards your calorie goal. Even the most accurate trackers get it really wrong and the normal variation from person to person is too much, even before accounting for hormone unbalances. I'd say keep tracking your food as accurately as you can, and measure your weight weekly, not daily. If a couple of weeks go by and you don't lose, adjust your calorie goal, or think where your tracking might be off (ie use a food scale instead of volume measures, notice the serving sizes on the labels as sometimes they are misleading, etc.)
@@notmyname327 I mentioned I track my exercise already..which includes calories. Steps are just part of what the fit bit shows. It is just nice to know that I get that many steps because I always worried I wasn't getting enough. I worked with a dietitian for the last year, and she set my calorie goals. The recent metabolic tests I did showed my TDEE as 2600 calories whereas the first one I took before following her advice showed 1200 calories TDEE. I'm still not losing weight. I've read so much conflicting information about my disorder, but one thing that has been pretty consistent is that the typical eat less and move more doesn't necessarily help with weight loss for those with pcos. It is more related to type of food you eat and type of exercise, because certain foods and exercises affect insulin and cortisol more negatively than others
Looks like you’re doing everything you can, I think it’s time to change the doctor
Moral of the story seems to be that US needs a different health system that prioritise health and not money spend...
I wish I had your cold rationality to beeing overweight - only seeing it as a health problem and thus considering every possible solution, even shaming, as a valid one. However for me, I've been overweight all my life, navigating relationships, school, love, sex, along with the hospital, has been always a challenge. Mind you I am not morbidly obese or anything drastic like that. But I was always made to think that I'm am guilty somehow. I still cannot imagine being happy if I'm not thin. And this feeling doesn't magically stop with weight loss - for a big part of my 20's I actually managed to normalize my weight - still didn't feel normal, never felt not-fat, because I was not thin like I saw in the media. Now I'm loosing weight again, and I'm actually scared to gain an eating disorder along with it, because it's such a big part of my daily life.
That's why I'm sceptical about people criticizing fat positivity and fat people in the media like Lizzo. I always translate those criticisms as: It's not ok for the fat people to feel good about themselves. In my mind we fat people know - we need to loose weight. But it's a straining process with countless setbacks, and is usually not really our choice - I've always been heavy for example, no matter that I ate the same as other kids in school, etc. I know that I have to deal with the problem. I would just like to not hate my body and not be ashamed to be naked in front of another person while doing so. I would like for this problem to not completely take over my life.
Good luck to you💚
The problem with America is that people would rather have a drug or a treatment that fixes all of their problems and serves as a temporary bandaid for problems down the road than actually implement any kind of lifestyle change. We’re a lazy society. It’s easier to project your own personal feelings about yourself onto a healthcare professional than it is to actually look inwards and realize that you do not take care of yourself. I gained 40 pounds this year during the pandemic. I am considered overweight now and I am noticing so many negative changes in my health. I get sick more easily, I’m inflamed, I have more aches and pains, I have brain fog, my mental health is shit etc. People really need to wake up. Yes love yourself at every size that is so important but being overweight is not healthy. It does not matter how you frame it. Obesity is a risk factor in just about every chronic disease acquired later in life and more often than not, they’re right! Losing weight is going to improve your symptoms because excess adipose tissue=excess inflammation throughout the body. Period.
When it comes to pain and suffering, everyone wants quick relief. Can you blame them?
@@AmandaLovesOldFords no but I wish there was more of a focus on healthy lifestyle in America rather than just throwing pills at people and seeing what sticks
Drugs do have their place but yes I do agree. Drugs are a LAST RESORT. they have SERIOUS side effects.
This video just reminds me that I don't like our healthcare system. I don't usually put the blame on doctors themselves, but insurance sucks, so I'm sure the rest of it sucks too.
Hi Swayze, Im a registered dietitian and I have some thoughts. First, I do feel like you're missing a little nuance. This was
really exemplified by your recounting of your own personal experience with being told to lose weight. The major problem with telling people to lose weight as treatment is that we know sustained weight loss is very challenging. If you know your patient is extremely unlikely to be successful with an outlined treatment, is it really the best option? Too often in medical care we view people as non-compliant without considering their circumstances and personal ability. Doctors know very little about nutrition and sustained behavior change and have so little time with patients they're not able to work through this. This is one of the reasons dietitians exist. Prescription for weight loss without support and likely referrals is not helpful and does perpetuate the shame cycle. Imagine telling an addict "you need to get clean, have fun figuring that out". I think we all generally accept that would be incredibly difficult. The same is true with weight loss. it is also possible that a focus on weight status for ambulatory patients is not as helpful as targeted behavior change without regard direct reference to weight.
Wait. Swayze referring to partner as her soulmate 🥺😭💓
If you come in to see the doctor complaining of left shoulder pain and you have a knife sticking out of your left deltoid, your doctor is probably not going to work you up for a heart attack even though left shoulder pain can be the only symptom of a heart attack for some people. Obesity is a risk factor for many illnesses so it makes sense that doctors use this as a clue to what is going on. OF COURSE other questions/symptoms/signs needs to be assessed, but many times obesity is playing a major role in illness and should be addressed first.
I wholeheartedly agree that losing just 5 pounds makes a difference in how you feel (and I mean physically, not speaking about confidence etc.). I am in the opposite situation now, I gained 8 lbs (in a spam of a year, so nothing too extreme), and wow (despite my BMI being 24.5 - not even overweight) I have never been to the doctor as many times as in the last two months. What were once in a blue moon problems before, became most of the time problems, affecting my life problems... I have had migraines, headaches for weeks at a time, my right side has been hurting whenever I eat pretty much anything that is a meal not a snack... Went to the doc 2 separate times, all of my blood tests were fine, they did an ultrasound of my liver, kidneys, etc. All fine. I was not told to lose weight, but I wish I had. I believe these problems are related to carrying the extra weight, and maybe and having some accountability with my doctor would be the kick in the butt that I need. Also speaking as someone who had 2 eating disorders in the past and finds weight discussions triggering, but come on, it's our health, we need to grow up or grow a thicker skin at least.
I lost over 120lbs a few years ago. I use to go to the doctors every second week but now I haven’t gone for over two years other then the odd checkup. Haven’t needed antibiotics, cholesterol medication or reflux meds. I had no idea that going to the doctors so often was abnormal and that my weight had such a large effect on my health.
What doctors need to do is explain and treat why some people can eat much more calories of total crap all the trine and never exercise and stay thin, while others need to exercise several hours per week, be hungry all the time, eat way below the recommended calories and very healthy just to maintain their weight and need to eat even less than doctors recommended for healthy weight loss to lose weight.
Because how much people usually self-report that they eat is not usually how much they actually eat. People who seem like they eat very caloric or unhealthy meals and are thin usually also eat very few meals per day and don't constantly snack in between.
Your soulmate 🥰 i love hearing you call partner that! I’m not sure why but it’s super cute! Hope your back pain resolves soon and I’m glad partner is getting some relief!
I had zero issues with your previous video. Why you had to do this video, is mind-numbing to me. Just keep being you, Swayze.
To not understand criticism of her last video means you are just dumb 🙂
@@jse92 Thanks Jessie, I’ll keep that in mind. Have a great day. 😊
Really appreciated the logic in this video. Usually I’m nodding along to things you say that I already know, but this video gave me food for thought. (Sorry I had to)
I think the control people have over their weight is wildly overestimated. Yes, you are the only person who can influence if you gain or lose weight. However it’s proven to be very hard to actually do so. Most people who try to lose weight gain it back and end up yo-yo-ing, which seems to be worse health wise than staying at the same weight. Many people also start showing disordered eating behaviours when repeat dieting or even get full blown eating disorders, no matter your weight, that is very harmful too. So for a doctor to say ‘you have pre-diabetes, lose weight’ is very dismissive. Even though the solution to the problem is actually weight loss, the assumption that the patient hasn’t tried that and failed is very short sighted. Most people are aware of their overweight-ness and do try to lose it at some point. A doctor would be better off taking the time discussing with the patient how they got to that weight, what problems losing weight may solve and guide them into a healthy sustainable weight loss plan. Sending someone home telling them they need to lose weight isn’t helping the patient in most cases.
Its not really that hard. Calories in Calories out, its pretty simple, find foods that you like eat at a deficit, emphasize protein and that is it. people put way too many excuses
Another thing people don’t think about is how obesity impacts the healthcare system.
Yesss and the environment overall
Honestly, this is probably the only valid argument against universal Healthcare in the US, and it really sucks.
The truth is that most people who are overweight are in that state because of their life choices, not because of a condition. So a doctor telling them to lose weight is a pretty rational thing to say, considering that it would solve the problem for 99% of cases. And "the problem" isn't being fat by itself, it's the decline in health that's going to result from something that most people have complete control over. If you love your body, you should take care of it and staying at a healthy bodyweight is crucial.
100% agreed. It’s not bigotry to treat a condition/prevent a condition from happening. I’m overweight because I don’t exercise that much. It’s not society’s fault; it’s mine. If my doctor brings it up, it’s because she’s doing her job.
How does a doctor telling someone to lose weight help? What is especially magical about the words lose weight. Also 99% of the cases? I wonder where you've got that number out of your ass.?
Edit: fixed issues from using a massively cracked phone where I can't even type certain letters without rotating it.
@@nocause5395 it’s pointing to the very likely root of their problems. If you’re going to see a doctor, you surely are looking to stay or return to good health, no?
@@christophersmith4438 Agreed. Yes, some doctors are assholes and don't treat overweight patients with respect which to me would result in the patient being reluctant to listen to the doctor. But overall, the message of getting at a healthy bodyweight is a pretty sound advice which is relevant to the average person. Best of luck with your weight loss journey, remember to take it slow and have a positive mindset!
@@dimanaboytcheva7078 thank you! 😊 Just recently started to get back into exercise. My diet is spot on, but I was getting like 1k steps per day…no good there. I’ll get there. Accountability really is the first step I think.
Thanks for offering your important perspective. For those that are looking for a unifying perspective to grapple with these issues, consider an equity and trauma informed approach. As long as the Healthcare system is understanding and recommending weight loss in a way that acknowledges the intersectionality of obesity factors and seeks to lessen the trauma that obese individuals face through support and empathy, recommending weight loss can be just like telling someone to wear sunscreen, compost, or do their homework. I'm not saying we live in this world, but couldn't we?
Okay. Cool. Well... I'm too expensive for society. Sorry for that. Just don't help me and let me die then. 😑
You are worth everything you need to be taken care of and healthy. Don't let this get to you please. :(
@@emilily6513 It was meant hyperbolically. I know my personal value doesn't depend on my societal value. I DO, however, cost society a lot and I wish that was different.
I'm wondering if this is one of those "I was a raw vegan until I wasn't" things with Swayze, though. It's easy to say these things from the perspective of a young, thin, relatively healthy person, but an entirely different beast once you find yourself in the situation of a very sick, fat, older person. I'm not looking to argue here, and I know from a strictly economical perspective letting me die would be absolutely reasonable. The resources used to keep me alive could fund probably dozens of more valuable lives...I just want to live too. For purely egoistic reasons, or maybe to be a moral support for my kids. Once they're adults though, I'm no longer needed for that even. Strictly speaking there would probably be healthier people to provide that for my kids right now.
It scares me that animal suffering is such a big deal for people who then go ahead and are FINE with putting a price tag on human lives. Is it just me or does that seem weird to anyone else too?
What a messy topic, and all just because some people weigh more than others.
considering that we are living in a world right now, where people, including doctors, can discriminate against you based on you vax status. Yes. Lets have weight loss mandates, lets not treat overweight and obese people for any conditions that could be linked to weight. :) Maybe we could have rules based on BMI on who is allowed in a train, bus, a concert, a restaurant etc.? I fully support all of it. If someone thinks it is unfair, just remember it is "for your health"
@@amethyrosemary8296 I'm not fat by choice. Literally. I don't expect you to know my medical history, but in my case not even a gastric bypass would help because my body doesn't metabolize fat the way it's supposed to. Death is the only option here. 🤣
Don't cheapen the discussion by bringing completely unreasonable personal choice issues like being actively antivaxx for no medical reason into this.
@@runningraven I agree that UV's perspective lacks empathy and nuance. Her opinions in regard to obese human beings are really problematic and slightly disturbing. This is why I like watching videos on the topic of obesity from channels of people who were formerly obese themselves.
The real issue with this doctor’s lack of empathy, and complacency when it comes to just saying “you are fat.” Is wholly unhelpful. There are definitely older doctors that hold a lot of judgment for overweight people. Rather than looking into reasons or education about why they are overweight.
I have type 1 diabetes, but I’ve had other symptoms of other conditions even before the diabetes. Even I’m worried my doctors will dismiss this stuff as “diabetes” when a lot of the adjacent symptoms fall under other conditions. We shouldn’t have to but the reality is you have to advocate for your own medical health. If you really think something else is wrong, seriously ask your doctors about getting things tested. Maybe you feel like you have a pituitary problem. Ask for the tests. Ask to rule out diagnoses.
Concerning what empowering actions, it doesn't matter what the systemic issues are that facilitate one to end up becoming fat, or having any health "disability". Knowing the systemic reasons does not change what the direct courses of action are. Knowing the systemic reasons simply adds more understanding of how one would end up in that state and changes the way one handles a patient. That's it.
As Swayze said in her previous video, it's much better for doctors to continuously point out what is probably obvious to the patient; eg.. that they are overweight. What your are pointing our in your second paragraph is how probably a significant portion of doctors misdiagnose a series of symptoms. This failed diagnosis does not equate at all to fat-phobia. A good doctor would consider the state of being fat as a probable cause for many of the symptoms experienced by the patients, because they know the research with it. A good doctor treats it as a probability, without excluding the possibility of other causes being what make those symptoms come up.
I went do the doctor because of my lack of period, she told me it was because I'm overweight. I showed her my eating diary which averaged at 1900 kcal a day but she blew me off. Three years later it turns out I have pcos with severe insulin resistance. So while it might not happen often, it does definitely happen.
In all fairness, she said that she is sure that things like this definitely do happen due to either the way the medical system runs or some doctors legitimately being incompetent. I'm sorry this happened to you.
Did you ever lose weight? If you lost what they recommend did you go back and they still dismissed you?
I mean 1900 calories is like a little above maintaining for the average female and loosing weight would be like 20% of that. PCOS definitely makes cravings more intense and decreases BMR but you arent going to break the laws of thermodynamics. Its really hard go judge anecdotes because I dont know what other symptomyms you may or may not have presented with. If you presented with just obesity and amenorreha, it would be extremely reasonable to assume the two are interrelated and start from there. Maybe you presented with more symptoms and just had a shitty physician. Who knows. I dont think its the norm for physciains to slap "obesity" on every disorder and call it a day.
Video exclusively talking about yo-yo dieting pls!!
Swazis says obese people earn less and are therefore not contributing as much to society. Most obese people are not disabled. The highest paying jobs require the least physical ability. People’s income from work top out in their 50s in every generation Therefore most people would assume that if someone is working full time and after accounting for many other likely cross-correlated factors, the difference in pay wound be down to irrational discrimination.
However Swazi has an extremely homo-economicus efficient-markets-assumption approach to economics. People do not necessarily get paid in accordance with their value to society, even in purely economic terms (i.e. by deduction, in terms of business profit). The economic basis for employment contracts is based on subjective valuations made by imperfect biased actors under the constraints of bounded rationality in a complex system of only partially apparent interests.
By Swaze’s logic Jim Crow segregation could not have existed, anti-fat discrimination could not exist, discrimination against minorities or women today could not exist. Discrimination against people judged less attractive could not exist. But we know these do exists and it is not because these people bring less economic value (e.g., human capital, natural talent) to the job market.
I'm very glad you made this video clarifying your position. Thank you! ☺
I like how everyone is suddenly a health expert. Is it so hard to sight studies and not rely on only anecdotal evidence?
You probably mean anecdotal. Depending on which studies you find you'll come to a different conclusion. Finding out what works for someone personally is better.
I honestly hate SJW warriors going against moderate, polite, matter of fact, individuals. Low hanging fruit. Body positivity can be praised, but the disease of obesity isn't something celebrated.
uh oh girl cant wait to see the comment section on this one
The issue isn’t that losing weight is beneficial for overweight people, we know that. It’s that fat people are disregarded for issues unrelated to being fat. Also, your comment in the last video about not having fat people in the media was very harmful. We exist, why shouldn’t we be allowed in the media?
What conditions in particular. Pcos...related to/made worse by weight. Chronic pain...related to/made worse by weight. Breathing and heart problems...often related to weight. Type 2 diabetes....90% of cases are caused by weight.
omg I think I have that condition your partner has??? I'm so glad I clicked on this video lol, I'm gonna start doing those stretches from bob&brad
I just went to say I’m not even vegan, but just love your perspective and you. So I watch!❤️
Costochondritis is a bitch. I couldn't get it diagnosed properly until after two visits to the ER, and I lived in sheer terror up to that point.
Can you make a video about the junk food lobby?? Very curious
Thank you for putting a word to how I view human beings. Consequentialism I can now put a name to the position.
Yep. We should ALWAYS think of the HARM that actions cause and if it causes more harm than good... It isn't the right or ethical thing to do.
OK have to comment on the anecdotes. Is the bedside manner of doctors really that bad in the US? I feel like this would never fly in Europe :o
Literally yes, it’s horrible here. Drs are tragically overworked and stressed these days, and it is making them either rude or lazy.
I think it definitely depends on the doctor and the scenario. Family physicians might be more patient and kind than sn ER doc, for example.
Oh I'm so sorry to hear that. Especially knowing that there is no free health care available, that doesn't sound great.
All my doctors have been nice to me... Almost overly nice at times.. Again everyone has a different personality.
hahahahaha omg the smoking part 😂 i was a smoker for years and doctors dismissed literally EVERY complaint i had - from (rightfully so) breathing problems, to stomach/digestion issues, all the way to back pain. so no, smokers do not get treated better than fat people??? in fact, i quit smoking five years ago and STILL get asked about my smoking at the doctors
also with the pcos example - i actually have pcos and have had horrific periods since i got my first period. my whole life doctors have said "some women just have worse periods, take birth control" which i did for a year at 17 and then stopped because i felt ignored by the doctors. all of this was while i was at a healthy weight. fast forward to now, and i am clinically obese and last year I finally got fed up with my periods and went back to the gynecologist and she ran a bunch of tests and found out i have pcos. my point is, i was actually treated BETTER being overweight than i was when i was at a healthy weight. OF COURSE my gynecologist suggested i lose weight to alleviate my symptoms of pcos, but she treated me SO much better than any doctor did when i was at a healthy weight. is that evidence that healthy weight people are treated worse in the medical system? of course not. its a personal anecdote. and like swayze said, anecdotes go both ways so acting like YOUR anecdote is just the gospel truth is just silly
It's almost like 🤔 medical neglect is bad 🤔 and shouldn't happen...you know...like these people are saying🤡
@@BlackPhoenix00280 i could be misinterpreting your comment but i think you missed the point of what i was saying
@@josie2142 That doesn’t seem right though. PCOS is more common than people think and 70% of women don’t know they have it. I just diagnosed without being overweight.
@@josie2142 sure that is true but maybe you weren't being taken seriously because you were young and only going to normal Dr's? I seem to get taken a lot more seriously now im older even though I was never lying when I was younger.
To be clear, it sucks ass to be told by a doctor that in order to feel better you have to take the hard route of daily and consistent effort and lifestyle changes for an extended period. I was more than happy to treat my ADHD with pills from the day I was diagnosed. But treating my pre-diabetes and PCOS is way less fun. I hate exercise. I hate eating less. It sucks.
There’s going to be a little bit of resentment there for thin people who wouldn’t have to do all this in my same medical situation. I get how upsetting it is for fat people on a personal level, and I understand how it might feel like marginalization or discrimination to be told that weight loss is the answer.
Does that mean the doctors are wrong? No! If I don’t lose weight and make changes to my diet, I will likely end up with full blown diabetes within the next 10 years. So I’m dieting and working out for the foreseeable future. Yes, I miss pizza.
That's why your doctor should also refer you to a therapist/psychologist instead of expecting you to cope with all the emotional turmoil that comes with weight loss on your own. I would resent being expected to make such a drastic lifestyle change AS IF it was a simple task to "just lose weight."
A simple statement that I stand by: "No one becomes successful on their own." Here's to hoping we are strong enough to ask for help when we need it, because we ALL need help along the way!
@@bubblebrainbow Absolutely. I have an incredible therapist who’s actually probably one of the main reasons I finally decided to suck it up and diet, even though I started working with him for totally separate reasons.
Upsetting? I can imagine but is it oppression? No!
There's your issue. You shouldn't be eating less. You should be eating more fruits and vegetables. A lot more.
I'm jealous of that woodwork behind you.
There's a world of difference between a doctor telling a patient that being overweight is unhealthy and that doctor telling them that they're "unworthy" or "unlovable". Of course, some doctors are lazy and/or bad diagnosticians, but many genuinely care about their patients' health. Being overweight _is_ intrinsically unhealthy. That's the boring old truth.
OMGosh I watch Bob and Brad all the time. They are the best!
I love love love that t-shirt (the red one with the crow)....and I love you of course 💜
Its really weird comparing doctor horror stories with my own - Ive always been overweight/obese growing up, and while the subject of weight loss does always come up with every appointment I've ever had, I was still able to get supportive specialist healthcare that was unrelated to my weight. So a lot of these stories, while i can empathise immensely, I cant really relate to.
Hyperawareness of disgust responses to the existence of fat people leads many of us to be borderline paranoid about other's opinions. Unfortunately, this is likely what leads to misunderstandings and general dissatisfaction and even nihilistic views of society.
Original Article: maybe we should be nice to fat people
Swayze in this video: ok but what if being mean made people lose weight? idk the research is out on Shame
From a purely actuarial perspective, she's not wrong about all humans having a price tag. It looks like a lot of people are upset about that particular comment but we have a health care system that assesses the risk of any given individual and within that context, young, healthy people ARE more valuable, simply because they cost less to care for. It doesn't mean other people are not worthy or valuable as humans in their lives, to their loved ones, etc, that's not the point she's making. And while anecdotes are very compelling, you can't make large scale policies based on them. You gotta go with the math, in order to help the largest number of people possible.
Yeah it's something we all know on a basic level but hearing it sounds off-putting. Like we understand that if someone say is critically injured and not gonna make it, ems then turns their attention to others at the scene of an car accident.
I think that's a lot of the issue here. I am no more important than my neighbor or a child. And they are no more important than me.
Swayze smacking down dumdums in the comments is my new favorite RUclips genre
Swayze went in tonight 😂
Jumping to invasive tests is never the right answer. Not right away. I have been a caregiver for both parents, and typically there is a process of elimination. My mom is not overweight but anytime she has an issue the first thing her doctor will look into is her diet/lifestyle. He will make some suggestions and we follow up. If The problem persists we move on to bloodwork/urinalysis. Nothing there? Maybe Imaging would be next or in some cases a different blood panel. That’s normal! One time my mom went to the ER complaining of chest pain. They inexplicably did an angiogram, which her primary care physician did not think was necessary AT ALL, but he wasn’t there. As a result, the artery used for the angiogram didn’t heal properly. She can home and her upper thigh and groin area tripled in size. She needed vascular surgery and has had a slew of problems since this happened. All because of an unnecessary test.
I was a kid when a doctor said I should lose weight and I didn't like hearing it. But I eventually did, still as a young person, and I learned a lot about health and food and exercise in the process. And it profoundly improved my quality of life and continues to in my adulthood.
Please make a podcast where you upload your vids in an audio only version! Not that you need too but I'd love to listen at work :)
Big thanks for the costochondritis tip!!! Think I may have had the same issue.
SMASHED IT! Could not agree more. So well said
This is just a thought for the future, there are ways to respond to people without being condescending or talking down to people.
This is just a thought for the future, there are ways of commenting without being sensitive. You’re missing the point and addressing the attitude instead. If you feel that behavior puts people off from an argument or listening to the information, I’d disagree. Seems like it makes people wanna prove her wrong more often than the opposite. I get it might hurt feelings to feel talked down to, but there is a difference between arrogance and confidence. Good luck.
@@nestortle well, I don’t exactly agree with her point either. And she’s definitely coming across as arrogant, not confident. It makes sense that you would agree with her, since you’re also being condescending towards me.
@@nikanh9946 was not being condescending. I didn’t think you commenting applied anything to the video. I used your own wording to demonstrate how you come across. Apparently you didn’t like it. That’s all. That’s not knowing more or acting superior. It’s disagreement and supporting why I do so. I’d rather see your reasons why you oppose her stance so people including myself can see that point of view instead of focusing on her attitude or what you think of mine. It has no relevance. Sorry it was taken that way. Not intended.
@@nestortle personally I just don’t think that using peoples words against hthem is the most mature thing to do. Thanks for the clarification though. Now I’m going to preface this by saying that I am a dietetic student so I’m more of an expert than you and the unnatural vegan. I also am from Canada where we have free universal healthcare. I took an entire class on this and what we were taught was the complete opposite of everything said in this video.
@@nestortlethe first sentence of your first comment was literally condescending. Don't gaslight.
Now that's a title.
If I am a smoker who goes to the doctor complaining about lung pain, are they wrong to assume it is because of my smoking? Even if the lung pain did happen to come from something else, are you really going to tell me that my doctor would be incorrect for focusing on the whole smoking thing and trying to get me to quit?
THANK YOU!
I have chostochondritis, terrifying when the pain occurred in the chest with no idea what was happening. Luckily the doctors paid attention because I have asthma and it's common amongst sufferers. I can't imagine if I didn't have that reassurance though. I'm glad your partner managed to figure it out, shame they couldn't have help through medical care.
I love Bob and Brad and watch them everyday :D
This is what philosophers are for! Keep the discourse going!
To be over weight literally means = inflammation- to be inflamed. Which is a very bad place to be in for your body. Inflamed means swollen… So maybe instead of using the words fat, obese or overweight we started using what all that really means people would take their health just a little more seriously. When we hear the word swollen we instantly get worried and do whatever it takes to take the swelling down.
That’s why as a patient you have to be your own advocate when receiving healthcare. There is onus on the patient.
Yes but also the patient needs to accept REALITY and accept that medical treatment can NEVER be personally catered to you. You are NOT worth more than anyone else.
Omg I don’t understand why the world is the way it is 😭 I thought your video was SO fair and logically like what the heck
She's suggesting a lower standard of care for obese people based on them being "too costly" when actually neglecting them is not only unethical af, but it'd be counterproductive because people who have been neglected are more likely to end up with chronic or severe health issues & emergency room visits which cost the system a lot more. It's also completely ignoring that being fat is a medical condition which is both physiological and psychological, and that it requires medical, and community resources in order to treat it. We can absolutely afford to provide a standard of care for obese people there's no reason for her to suggest that fat people should be medically neglected due to their "choices" and their "environments and genetics" which is what she said here in this video at around the 23 minute mark. There's nothing fair or logical about this.
@@emilily6513 Exactly
You think it's fair to say that fat people are less worthy of adequate healthcare as she did at the end of this video?
@@emilily6513 no she's not..she's advocating for the idea of fair and just triage and not treating obese people as any more special than anyone else.
An obese person is no more special nor deserves MORE care than me and I dont deserve more treatment than them. And I have a rare disorder.
Very few conditions ACTUALLY cause obesity. But overeating and lack of exercise almost ALWAYS causes obesity.
You sometimes need to take your health into your OWN hands and take some responsibility for your OWN actions. No different than smoking or drinking.
Doctors have a lot of biases when doing diagnoses and tend to skip the usual steps if they observe something that can explain your problems. This is the problem the article was addressing. Example would be my friend, who was a smoker. He came to a doctor and complained about sudden problems with breathing. Doctor did nothing just told him to stop smoking and was done with him. Few days later we rushed him to ER. He had lung infection and almost half of his lungs was already filled with water... He could have died. His lungs must have taken permanent damage as he complained for years about his breathing not being like before. This is the level of saving resources you are talking about?
Sorry to hear about your friend. I hope they are better!
In your friends situation…. The symptom he complained about in the initial visit was stated as sudden “problems with breathing”. He’s a smoker, I’m sure there was other information you left out but going off what you provided… testing him for everything possibly associated with breathing issues would be a waste of resources. Breathing problems are a very common symptom. An example: 80% of COPD cases are tobacco users… around 20% of smokers will develop this disease. The first recommendation would be to stop smoking and depending on the severity …. Prescribing steroids. That’s only one possibility but almost all breathing related issues would have a doctor recommending a smoker to quit smoking first to see if the symptoms subside without unnecessary treatment. Your friends condition got worse but that doesn’t necessarily mean it was the doctors bias. It still could be, but based on the information you provided… I don’t see a bias just unfortunate that he got worse faster than the doctor expected based on his initial visit. Again, I hope he’s recovering well.
Again an anecdote. Show a study showing that this is harmful.