Card We Hate But Still Play | Commander Clash Podcast 138

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  • Опубликовано: 27 май 2024
  • We hate these cards, but still play them?! The answer seems simple...
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    0:00 intro and sponsors
    2:46 Farewell
    10:37 Tutors
    15:51 land ramp
    19:04 The One Ring
    24:39 Feed the Swarm
    28:45 DFCs
    32:54 Sol Ring
    38:45 Teferi’s Protection
    42:46 The Celestus (Day / Night)
    47:45 Esper Sentinel
    52:49 avoid for Clash’s sake
    55:33 Infect cards
    1:00:15 Cathar’s Crusade
    1:05:38 outro
  • ИгрыИгры

Комментарии • 548

  • @AndrewRingle
    @AndrewRingle 2 месяца назад +283

    "Casual commander is about cultivating an enjoyable experience."
    *- Proceeds to insert 12 boardwipes into a deck -*

    • @jamespowelljr4636
      @jamespowelljr4636 2 месяца назад +9

      Bruh 😂 facts.

    • @BobardeZanzibar
      @BobardeZanzibar 2 месяца назад +6

      Is mono-red a fun experience? No boardwipes makes every game exactly like that. See Phil.

    • @itsazombiethingsgaming1107
      @itsazombiethingsgaming1107 2 месяца назад +13

      I'd rather see people add 10 board wipes in there decks unlike one group I play with how many infinite combos can I add in

    • @seanedgar164
      @seanedgar164 2 месяца назад +8

      Honestly, their pod will wrath 4 power because "they're gonna win the game!"

    • @marimi46
      @marimi46 2 месяца назад +1

      You don't need more wraths lmao. Just run more 3 for 1 or 2 for 1 targeted removal

  • @jamesvacca8835
    @jamesvacca8835 2 месяца назад +212

    Seth is Safron Olive, Crim is the Asian Avenger, Richard is the Codfather, and Tomer is Baby Hands.

    • @darthsnarf
      @darthsnarf 2 месяца назад +12

      budget commander who? he has a new Tag Line now

    • @canamrock
      @canamrock 2 месяца назад +3

      @@darthsnarfHe's suffering from saving money on smaller hands. Gotta go with the value pack family-sized hands.

    • @joshuadempsey5281
      @joshuadempsey5281 2 месяца назад +1

      I really want this to become the top comment lol

    • @ethanhughes3515
      @ethanhughes3515 2 месяца назад

      The best MTG Mafia

    • @robgmb6311
      @robgmb6311 2 месяца назад +2

      Never forget Tomer's Onlywrists account

  • @BrewersKitchen
    @BrewersKitchen 2 месяца назад +95

    Just fyi I usually run 2-3 Wraths, 1-2 Counters and 1-2 Spot removal spells per deck. I just rarely cast wraths on calsh because I'm usually the one who gets dunked on by a board wipe 😅

    • @Lucarioguild7
      @Lucarioguild7 2 месяца назад +26

      Don't listen to him Phil you're playing the right way, you never have to answer problems if you are the problem

    • @TMidander
      @TMidander 2 месяца назад +4

      exactly THIS IS PHIL SLANDER :D

    • @nosyamthegreat8768
      @nosyamthegreat8768 Месяц назад +2

      SAMMEE. MAN OF THE PEAPLE🤣

    • @grantpolley
      @grantpolley 22 дня назад +2

      Bro WHAT

  • @vinnythewebsurfer
    @vinnythewebsurfer 2 месяца назад +286

    Alternate title to this video would be “this card is a problem and I’m part of the problem”

    • @mattfrisone3961
      @mattfrisone3961 2 месяца назад

      HA! Right? I'm watching these slides - "Oh, but I love tutors!" "How can you hate ramp? I love green!" "Yeah, I have 12 Sol Rings in 13 decks..."

    • @justin2039
      @justin2039 2 месяца назад +1

      This card is a problem and in every precon.

    • @-8h-
      @-8h- 2 месяца назад

      ​@mattfrisone3961 yet aside from crim, they all whine about sol ring and cry for its death like it slept with their partner.

    • @williambowen8054
      @williambowen8054 2 месяца назад +1

      You know what isn't a problem? Ensuring my cards are safe and secure with sleek UltraGuard sleeves and stylish deck boxes.

  • @oliverherman2447
    @oliverherman2447 2 месяца назад +46

    I love this discussion
    Everyone: “these are mechanics that are unhealthy for magic as a whole”
    Tomer: “these cards hurt my baby hands”

  • @andrueurbane7361
    @andrueurbane7361 2 месяца назад +61

    Crim not only hates ramping, he hates making land drops as well.

    • @taylorarnold880
      @taylorarnold880 2 месяца назад +10

      He hates ramping so much, he cuts lands for wraths

  • @captainstrangiato961
    @captainstrangiato961 2 месяца назад +112

    Tomer yelling “MY BABY HANDS, MY BABY HAAAANDS” is really what I needed this morning.

  • @cre8rzaw
    @cre8rzaw 2 месяца назад +42

    I think for day-night cards, the mechanic should have been that if there are no day-night permanents on the battlefield, the cycle reverts to day. This way it's always on day by default.

    • @SaltyProductionsHD
      @SaltyProductionsHD 2 месяца назад +6

      Yes, it needs like an ETB effect that sets it to day or something like that

  • @skylerskinner2477
    @skylerskinner2477 2 месяца назад +102

    I usually never put more than 4 wrath’s. I honestly would rather the game end and someone else win than having a drawn out game with continuous wrath’s. 6-12 wrath’s sounds miserable haha

    • @BrootalMetalBanjo
      @BrootalMetalBanjo 2 месяца назад +4

      I put in tire board protection spells in place of board wipes. Now when your wrath-happy pod attempts to wipe, your field is intact and you can win.

    • @BlitzKreigur
      @BlitzKreigur 2 месяца назад +15

      Hard agree. I'll slot in more spot removal, play more politics or take my beats. The wrath-reset cycle can turn any game into a chore, which for me, hurts the enjoyment more than having too many threats.

    • @EmbeJuicemazzopazzo
      @EmbeJuicemazzopazzo 2 месяца назад +4

      four/five is more than enough, I have around 2-3 on most of my decks, while I have 4 in my boros deck, the one I have the most

    • @Kestral287
      @Kestral287 2 месяца назад +2

      Honestly if you're playing a deck where the board matters the solution is to just play asymmetrical wraths and just win the game after you blow up the board.

    • @patriciaboggs8882
      @patriciaboggs8882 2 месяца назад +2

      Miserable? Ha! Have you tried playing around 60? So much fun! Some of my favorite games. 3+ hours of brutal destruction of everything where everyone is still above 30 life and has 0 permanents in play.

  • @doctorrobz
    @doctorrobz 2 месяца назад +16

    Richard: you can just play one to two counterspell in a deck
    Crim: 😐

  • @covertgoblue
    @covertgoblue 2 месяца назад +28

    best rule for day/night - when it matters, flip a coin

    • @techpriest8965
      @techpriest8965 2 месяца назад +4

      My group forgot that we had monarch in play (we said we will remember it so no token was being passed around) and rolled dice later to decide....

    • @trixterDevil
      @trixterDevil 2 месяца назад +3

      For day/night, just house rule it to reset back to normal whenever the one card gets removed.

    • @pascalsimioli6777
      @pascalsimioli6777 2 месяца назад

      You peasant, we have an actual crown to keep track of the monarch lmao

  • @Awesomesausages
    @Awesomesausages 2 месяца назад +26

    4:02 "How do you hate Farewell? It's so good."
    You just answered your own question. Fuck this card.
    I'm so happy to be playing in a friendgroup where we don't need six-plus wraths in each deck. Also, shoutout to Tragic Arrogance: great, powerful wrath that doesn't completely halt the game.

    • @TheAlmightyGoiter
      @TheAlmightyGoiter 2 месяца назад

      That's a good card. I've been running divine reckoning forever since it doesn't leave everyone on an empty board and stop the game.

    • @Balileart
      @Balileart 2 месяца назад +3

      Crim saying "oh but there's also the artifact deck that's popping off so you need something to deal with that" like my brother in christ, Austere Command is right there

    • @mrWade101
      @mrWade101 Месяц назад

      @@Balileart In what world is Austere command not just a worse version?

  • @aydjent
    @aydjent 2 месяца назад +14

    I don't care how "technically correct" 12 board wipes might be, that would make for such boring games to both play and watch

    • @michaelcollins4534
      @michaelcollins4534 2 месяца назад +2

      And then they always complained about their three hour Modo games lol. I wonder why they got like that

    • @nosyamthegreat8768
      @nosyamthegreat8768 Месяц назад

      Yea i run 2 AT MOST 12 is ridiculious

  • @taylorgamble1965
    @taylorgamble1965 2 месяца назад +6

    Seth, you can cut Sol Ring from your decks. I did it over a year ago (outside of my Obosh companion deck) and have been super happy about it. I highly recommend it.

  • @late_gaming
    @late_gaming 2 месяца назад +15

    If you raise poison counters to 20... no infect deck would ever win a pod. 1v1, sure... but a 4 man pod? nah dude. My infect deck is about as good as it can get, and it's still a struggle to win a pod. Infect is only good if you get super big combos, plus the stigma on infect already makes you target #1 even if the opponents don't have counters. My big combos to take a single person out in one turn will usually cost me 10 plus mana... then I'm outta gas. I see people go infinite for less much more regularly. Maybe that's just my experience... but raising the counters would be the death of infect. Anyways... love the content!

    • @-8h-
      @-8h- 2 месяца назад

      Yeaaah. I feel like 10 is too few, but 20 is too much. It's a strange situation

    • @MrJahoodie
      @MrJahoodie 2 месяца назад +2

      ​@@-8h- Two headed giant is 15 counters, why not commander?

    • @donb7519
      @donb7519 2 месяца назад +2

      ​@@MrJahoodiein 2hg if you get to that 15 you win in commander getting one person to 10 just means you eliminated one opponent its not really the same

  • @drluigee21
    @drluigee21 2 месяца назад +16

    100% agree with Tomer on One Ring, immediately thought of the exact same mana crypt comparison

    • @drluigee21
      @drluigee21 2 месяца назад +2

      And then a minute later also 100% agree on dfc. I like so many design-wise, but super obnoxious to have to unsleeve cards, and can't stand looking at ugly checklist cards in hand

  • @MakeVarahHappen
    @MakeVarahHappen 2 месяца назад +8

    Yeah man, don't play that two mana removal spell. Instead you can tutor up a seven mana boardwipe that also destroys your board! These do not play the same role.

  • @Dynme
    @Dynme 2 месяца назад +3

    1:01:00 CC is a build around. Pick cards that have chunks of creatures enter at once. Skip your Mardu Ascendency and go with Rabble Rousing. Is Mardu usually better? Sure. Is RR better for keeping your sanity? Yes.

  • @seanfallon2271
    @seanfallon2271 2 месяца назад +4

    Richard: Precons have like no interaction, maybe 1 board wipe, maybe 1 targeted removal
    Command Zone reviewing nearly every precon of the last 3 years: WOTC is getting really good at including about 10-12 targeted removal and 2-3 board wipes in every deck!

    • @Jlizard27
      @Jlizard27 2 месяца назад +1

      I would say in general that precons are still very light on interaction. Maybe it’s dependent on how much someone is comparing new vs old precons as opposed to precons vs brewed decks. I would say 10-12 is more targeted removal than any of the precons I’ve gotten in the last year have had, unless it’s counting *really* specific and niche options.

  • @bartoffer
    @bartoffer 2 месяца назад +21

    The fix to double-sided cards is easy: you put them in a clear sleeve, take draft chaff, and use the sharpie to turn the chaff into a proxy. When you have the double-faced card anywhere the information is public, just set the proxy-card off to the side.

    • @user-nd1ef8xj6d
      @user-nd1ef8xj6d 2 месяца назад +2

      I hate them for the reason, that I never remember the back-side since I don't play often. And then I'm like trying to pull them out and read them without anyone noticing

    • @HJOTech
      @HJOTech 2 месяца назад +2

      Just use the million blank art cards you get in packs

    • @Gyarodos
      @Gyarodos 2 месяца назад +3

      Cleanest solution: 1. print a proxy of the backside. 2. Put it to your tokens. 3. When you flip/use the backside, then you exchange proxy back vs real front side.

    • @bartoffer
      @bartoffer 2 месяца назад

      Art cards and the MDFCs themselves can bleed through certain sleeves and be visible, since art cards have the blank backs. Just take a sharpie to a Disenchant.

  • @Oddler
    @Oddler 2 месяца назад +41

    I agree with that take. I just don't play cards I hate and number one on that list is rhystic study.

    • @delailama736
      @delailama736 2 месяца назад +8

      And Smothering Tithe. I don't even think I hate the cards, I just hate hearing someone saying "are you going to pay..." every single time someone plays the game.

    • @jamespowelljr4636
      @jamespowelljr4636 2 месяца назад

      ​@delailama736 I definitely agree lol

    • @khub5660
      @khub5660 2 месяца назад

      ​@delailama736 then tell them you aren't going to pay for it when they play it. Think about that?

    • @goy1849
      @goy1849 2 месяца назад +1

      I like playing rhystic then cloning it :D

    • @Kestral287
      @Kestral287 2 месяца назад +2

      @@khub5660 Especially with Rhystic that just means you're conceding with extra steps. That's not a good thing.

  • @WiLDRAGE777
    @WiLDRAGE777 2 месяца назад +13

    The only card I hate that I play is Farewell in my Superfriends deck because it makes sense to play it there. Day/Night cards I absolutely refuse to play under any circumstance. For Seth, play the Sonic Screwdriver from Doctor Who instead of Celestus; it has much better utility.

  • @J-Sade
    @J-Sade 2 месяца назад +21

    How do they play with so many wraths 😂 it sounds like a terrible time

    • @avall0nNn1992
      @avall0nNn1992 2 месяца назад +4

      Works with their meta and microcosmos because they don't really play a lot of infinites. Wraths are weak If combo is a viable strategy.

  • @edhdeckbuilding
    @edhdeckbuilding 2 месяца назад +9

    a whole bunch of issues would be solved in commander if everyone stopped playing cards that they hate playing against. i might stop playing farewell for this reason.

    • @pascalsimioli6777
      @pascalsimioli6777 2 месяца назад

      That's like saying "we would solve all of our issues if we could teach humans what basic empathy is"
      I agree with you, but humans are pretty stupid animals.

  • @TheAlmightyGoiter
    @TheAlmightyGoiter 2 месяца назад +7

    Everyone would hate sol ring if it cost as much $$$ as mana crypt.

  • @olddaydreams
    @olddaydreams 2 месяца назад +18

    It was a treat when I noticed a good boy on the bed behind Crim! Love getting to see one of the puppers

  • @MakeVarahHappen
    @MakeVarahHappen 2 месяца назад +6

    If you play Rhystic and win we will all be talking about Rhystic, not your jank. This is like calling Allurn/Acererak combo a dungeon deck.

  • @tymandude1510
    @tymandude1510 2 месяца назад +4

    I feel like the problem with Farewell is the same issue MLD has in that people play it without having a significant advantage or way to win making the game last way too long. It's less problematic as you can play around it more by holding cards and not just vomiting your hand but it feels bad to have to play around a 1 of that your opponent maybe has all game.
    Don't play Farewell as a normal board wipe play it as a way to finish out games.

  • @xdavid00
    @xdavid00 2 месяца назад +6

    I've been preparing for the Farewell-pocalypse for over a year now. Most of my decks are pretty resistant. Use slow-flicker/phasing for defense, have more card draw, have more effects from lands and planeswalkers, or just hold counterspells for only Farewell and not be tempted to use those for other threats.

    • @michaelcollins4534
      @michaelcollins4534 2 месяца назад +2

      As a mono red enjoyer I've had to start unironically adding warping wail to my decks just for farewell

    • @Qazplm601MC
      @Qazplm601MC 2 месяца назад +3

      @@michaelcollins4534 as a mono green enjoyer I’m right there with you, Warping Wail is our only out, even run old Boseiju to make the Wail uncounterable since the farewell players in my meta almost always have a counterspell up to protect it. Of course, then they usually just fetch mystic sanctuary and return Farewell to hand to cast it on their next turn. I’m so tired of Farewell…

    • @Chonus
      @Chonus 14 дней назад

      @@michaelcollins4534 Tibalt's Trickery is a hard counter in red, definitely playable.

    • @michaelcollins4534
      @michaelcollins4534 14 дней назад

      @@Chonus I'd rather not spin them into their bombs tbh

    • @Chonus
      @Chonus 13 дней назад

      @@michaelcollins4534 Have you played the card? It's definitely better than warping wail.

  • @Wearywastrel
    @Wearywastrel 2 месяца назад +2

    What we need is an anti farewell, we can call it welfare, choose 2
    Return all creatures from exile.
    Return all artifacts from exile.
    Return all enchantments from exile.
    Thing goes wild with tormods crypt.

  • @paulhedges4625
    @paulhedges4625 2 месяца назад +4

    The One Ring definitely feels like a S+ staple next to sol ring, arcane signet. But I don't see it when I'm in those lower power pods, because it's sort of just understood that it's ridiculously powerful. I've intentionally chosen to not include it for those power reasons

    • @michaelburt9888
      @michaelburt9888 2 месяца назад

      The One Ring alone has caused me to increase the number of exile and/or theft-based removal pieces that I run.

  • @kevinthecarpathian
    @kevinthecarpathian 2 месяца назад +38

    12 wraths wtf, never want to play with Richard

    • @enriquemeza5291
      @enriquemeza5291 2 месяца назад +1

      For real! That’s beyond excessive. Long boring games.

    • @foggyparadigm4416
      @foggyparadigm4416 2 месяца назад

      Stupendously excessive and positively miserable to play against 😆

  • @liamlindsay6082
    @liamlindsay6082 2 месяца назад +3

    52:52 Absolutely. Celestial Ancient is a great card in enchantress decks. Each enchantment cast, put a +1/+1 counter on your creatures. It is so annoying to track, I immediately took it out after goldfishing a sythis deck. Tracking how many tokens I had was enough.
    Boon of the spirit realm is just an improved version playability wise

  • @ericjackman1143
    @ericjackman1143 2 месяца назад +8

    My rules for building decks these days are:
    - Typically under $150
    - Using cards that directly synergize mechanically OR flavorfully with the theme of the deck
    This means that I have enough room to purchase a few niche and interesting $10 cards while avoiding picks like The One Ring if it doesn't match the theme. There are many functionally similar cards albeit much less efficient and sometimes needs multiple casts to get the same effect, but that saves room for expressing my deck in other ways. It makes for sometimes strange yet effective jank. Why run Rhystic Study in my budget Rafiq deck when I could instead use a Cold-Eyed Selkie, or a Thalia Guardian of Thraben?

    • @aklepatzky
      @aklepatzky 2 месяца назад +1

      Cause youre not gonna win

    • @Jlizard27
      @Jlizard27 2 месяца назад

      @@aklepatzkydoes your pod play 4 separate games of Solitaire?

    • @aklepatzky
      @aklepatzky 2 месяца назад

      does your pod see sol ring t1 and throw grenades at that player cause yalls budget and decks are so low?@@Jlizard27

  • @Vertrie
    @Vertrie 2 месяца назад +4

    The more I watch, the more I realize Crim and I are the exact same type of players, when he was talking about the golem commander, I was 100% on board with everything he said, even the mention of green only for the handful of splicers, I was like "The Mahdi has spoken."

  • @ethanhughes3515
    @ethanhughes3515 2 месяца назад +5

    I think we need a commander clash episode “oops, no wrath’s” then next week “oops, all wrath’s”.

    • @donb7519
      @donb7519 2 месяца назад

      We did have a no wrath episode it was pretty good

  • @dcnole
    @dcnole 2 месяца назад +5

    Credit to Crim for being an on-brand Grixis stan. To summarize the cards he hates: Anything green or white that is even semi-good.

  • @Beam_on_team
    @Beam_on_team 2 месяца назад +2

    The less obnoxious alternative to Cathars Crusade in go-wide white decks is Starlight Spectacular. It still requires some maths, but it means no counters, 4 mana, and immediately game ending if you top deck it with a board already established. It's also very budget friendly!

  • @ThePurpleGM
    @ThePurpleGM 2 месяца назад +2

    I like to call cards that are very time consuming to play 'Busy Cards' and despite what a lot of people might think there is a vast difference between complexity and busy cards.
    Cathar's crusade and Coat of Arms are busy cards because they create a state of play that requires constant checking, but aren't complex in their design.
    I'd argue the busy card mechanic is the Day/Night cycle.

  • @Newtontke
    @Newtontke 2 месяца назад +5

    Richard is my favorite Commander-related opinion person. He comes at the format from such a different perspective that his takes are either wildly crazy or secretly genius. This cast generally has a very individualistic perspective overall, but Richard is the most unique among the group. Most Commander content is everyone agreeing to the general opinion on cards and strategies and it makes them redundant

  • @cowsticker9618
    @cowsticker9618 2 месяца назад +3

    I think the constant arms race between casual players tends to let their decks creep up in power level and include a bunch of cards that they normally wouldn't.

  • @MrBFriedm
    @MrBFriedm 2 месяца назад +6

    All of Tomer's issues have something to do with his "baby hands" 😂😂

  • @Shimatzu95
    @Shimatzu95 2 месяца назад +1

    @tomer, if you are in a pod were trust is not an issue you can kinda skip shuffling most of the time. You just start searching from the bottom and if you dont take too long to find what you search (like the bottom 20 cards) it shouldn't realy matter that you saw them.
    Ps: Personally my problem is not handsize but I'm just verry bad at shuffling and dont want to risk damaging my cards.

  • @austinbrown2833
    @austinbrown2833 2 месяца назад +3

    Always love the content guys! Much appreciated

  • @Onirikas
    @Onirikas 2 месяца назад +2

    Completely agree with Tomer's tale on wrhats, and how we should be playing more one sided wraths.

  • @OGTahoe3
    @OGTahoe3 2 месяца назад +2

    8:40 i introduced some new friends to my old group. All my new friends were so confused why nothing could stay on the board and why we saw 6-9 board wipes a game.
    They said it was really eye opening in how non creature decks hold up against Stompy decks

  • @RyanEglitis
    @RyanEglitis 2 месяца назад +3

    My choice for card I hate but play anyway is Consecrated Sphinx. It just takes over the game, unless someone held up spot removal or a counter.

  • @TheSpiritombsableye
    @TheSpiritombsableye 2 месяца назад +1

    43:33 you only need to know what the last flip in of day/night. You don't actually have to track it. Thr only trigger that will matter is the most recent one.

    • @tk421eatmyshorts
      @tk421eatmyshorts 2 месяца назад

      Definitely this. Everyone always comments when some says “Draw, Go” and you usually notice when someone plays more than one spell, or are “popping off”

  • @DylanHunter64
    @DylanHunter64 2 месяца назад +5

    Seth's comment about Feed the Swarm makes me wonder, how long can something be officially in color pie before players start to recognize it as such? How long will it be before people stop erroneously saying that Feed this Swarm is a color pie break? How long did it take for players to stop saying that blue gets pingers after WotC stopped printing them?

  • @dorsalfin22
    @dorsalfin22 2 месяца назад +1

    The Teferi's Protection discussion hit home for me. I just finished brewing a fog deck and even in a dedicated deck for the theme I run only 13 fogs, including all three Richard mentioned. I'm starting to think about making a big battlebox that is 100% singleton so I'm only able to use every card once so synergistic cards have a chance to shine. So many good generic cards come out these days, especially with the rapid fire release schedule from WOTC.

  • @NeoSamurai13
    @NeoSamurai13 2 месяца назад +3

    I play the one ring in 0% of my decks. If i had the one ring, I would probably put it into 100% of my decks.

  • @Will_Morand
    @Will_Morand 2 месяца назад +1

    I stopped running Cathars’ Crusade and Virtue of Loyalty in my Thalisse tokens deck exclusively because of the tracking nightmare. When I pulled the deck out and brought out a notebook to track how many I had of each token with how many counters, I realized it was getting out of hand.

  • @Snipfragueur
    @Snipfragueur 2 месяца назад +5

    "Cards that are so good i would feel stupid not to play them"

  • @Scub
    @Scub 2 месяца назад

    Shoutout to Richard. When in a boring meeting in home office I‘ll grab a commander deck for shuffling. ❤ So relaxing!

  • @webbc99
    @webbc99 2 месяца назад +1

    I have a fully double sided commander deck, every card including lands is double sided or a meld card, it's great fun for me and the table, even gets some laughs from people walking past or in games next to us when they see me resleeving for every land drop!
    One card I hate but still play is Nighthawk Scavenger, you have to keep track of the number of card types in all graveyards which is annoying. I also really dislike introducing the Initiative for one card, but you basically have to run Explore the Underdark in gates decks.

  • @MrMagdalore
    @MrMagdalore 2 месяца назад +5

    The number of board wipes you need to run is based on the three basic deck archetypes that have been around forever
    AGGRO (Phil) - Do the cool thing as fast as you can, ignore everyone else's cool thing and see who is cooler: 0 board wipes
    MID RANGE (Tomer and Seth) - Do a cooler thing a few turns later and pack some interaction incase someone goes off before you: 3-4 board wipes
    CONTROL (Richard) - Hide behind pillow forts and politics while continuously wiping the board until nobody wants to play Magic anymore then "win" the game with a bunch of birds: 10+ board wipes
    WILD CARD (Crim) - See Charlie Day from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia for more information: 0-100 board wipes

    • @SWAT6809
      @SWAT6809 2 месяца назад +1

      And then you run into another aggro deck thats faster and you get an autoloss because yo packed no wraths, gj

  • @Daxelman
    @Daxelman 2 месяца назад +1

    I don't hate Farewell, I hate what it does to random pods. People rarely want to go another round (or even continue the current game) if that card comes out, especially ahead of curve. I think it's pretty cool, but everytime it's played it sort of just deflates the table in ways Cyclonic Rift doesn't.

  • @maciekwilkosz6377
    @maciekwilkosz6377 2 месяца назад +1

    I have the same feelings about Farewell. Austere Command used to be a format staple. These does everything it did but better. In general there is way too much exile effects latały allowing less counterplay, hating on death triggers and graveyard synergies. You need answers, yes, but such catch all cards are toxic to play against.

  • @mikemacbeath5310
    @mikemacbeath5310 2 месяца назад

    For the DFC I have a proxy card in the deck properly sleeved and everything, then have the DFC off to the side in a clear backless sleeve so you can clearly see both sides. If it gets shuffled away, the proxy goes back in the deck and the DFC is back off to the side.

  • @DCII
    @DCII 2 месяца назад +1

    I have 22 decks and I run a sol ring in every one. I don't see any problem with it. I don't mind being the threat or neutralizing the threat. That IS the game.

  • @cylver3593
    @cylver3593 2 месяца назад

    During a recent game night, a friend of mine played Sol Ring turn 1 every game. We played four total games, I think, and he played three different decks across those four games, and he had Sol Ring the first turn for every game.
    I actually removed Cathars' Crusade from my Myrel deck so I did not have to deal with it. Having a different number of +1 counters on the same kind of token is annoying to keep track of, and bogs the game down quite a bit.

  • @NotoriouslyADD
    @NotoriouslyADD 2 месяца назад +1

    Everyone's one equal ground after the farewell. I agree, Balance is the most balanced card.

  • @Balex115
    @Balex115 2 месяца назад +1

    Why would you only run 1-2 counterspells? Like 5-8 is way better. They defend your board from wraths, help you push you wincon through interaction, and sometimes stop a giant X spell or a game ending sorcery. I guess it does depend on the deck though but gosh ive never run less than 5 personally.

  • @brighamschellinger147
    @brighamschellinger147 2 месяца назад +1

    When I saw Farewell leaked, I legitimately thought it was a fake card. "No way they'd make strictly better exiling Austere commamd," I said to my friends. Yet I had forgotten we lived in the 2020s and nothing is off limits anymore.

  • @T_Peazy
    @T_Peazy 2 месяца назад +1

    Seth, you don't have to play feed the swarm. It's the same as when we had to play unstable obelisk or the other colorless options. You just hate that it's thr best option and you're CHOOSING to play the best card in that slot.

  • @OGTahoe3
    @OGTahoe3 2 месяца назад

    13:20 i have small hands as well. When i first got to edh i felt the same way. Now i dont have any issues with shuffling

  • @anthonylocker599
    @anthonylocker599 2 месяца назад +1

    Tomer hates tutors because he hates shuffling, Tomer hates duel face cards because he hates flipping them. Does Tomer just hate paper?

  • @darthsnarf
    @darthsnarf 2 месяца назад

    I also shuffle just for fun. I ruined a set of sleeves from just shuffling it non stop as a tick of sorts. i still have them and keep random lands in there and still just shuffle it for fun sometimes. i wish you had larger hands so you could enjoy shuffling tomer

  • @TheForeverRanger
    @TheForeverRanger 20 дней назад

    I feel the Hakbal thing completely because one person in my group always brings Hakbal to the party. He is usually enemy number 1 because the deck can get out of hand quickly.

  • @Bleuchz
    @Bleuchz 2 месяца назад +3

    I am going to figure out a deck that forces opponents to shuffle and submit it to the next viewer deck battle now that clash is playing in paper >:)

    • @angusblankenstein99
      @angusblankenstein99 Месяц назад +1

      I used to have a 60 card casual deck that did this. Soldier of Fortune, Cosi's Trickster, Psychogenic Probe, Psychic Surgery. Bad but fun

  • @keithbarlow858
    @keithbarlow858 2 месяца назад

    23:37 I've been saying the same thing for a while in regard to the Ring in modern. It's validating to hear another person make that point. The Ring lets tier 3 (or lower) decks compete, which is awesome IMO.Yes, the Ring is somewhat ubiquitous and obnoxious, but I think it ultimately promotes a more diverse format.

  • @sevenangerywasps6103
    @sevenangerywasps6103 2 месяца назад

    One podcast episode I'd love to see would be each of you recording a ~15 minute video breaking down your deckbuilding process, how you go about, the types of cards you like to include, and your general philosophy you use when playing and how that impacts your deckbuilding. Then just compile each of your clips into an episode and that's the podcast for that week! Would love to hear more insight from you all on that :)

  • @Nekoboy728
    @Nekoboy728 Месяц назад

    My Angel of Hope deck has 18 wraths. Planeswalkers, spells, and other common wrath effects. 35 Snow Covered Plains as well

  • @battlegrizz3687
    @battlegrizz3687 2 месяца назад +1

    I have 6 non precon decks, all have a One Ring, Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Ancient Tomb, and 4 of 6 have Jeweled Lotus. Gotta have some fast mana

    • @Jlizard27
      @Jlizard27 2 месяца назад +1

      Not if the rest of your pod also agrees to not use it

  • @RPGFanboy14
    @RPGFanboy14 2 месяца назад

    As a replacement for the celestis Seth there is an uncommon that came out in the last Eldraine set that I think could fill a similar niche called Collectors Vault. You do have to pay mana into it to gain a treasure but it also lets you loot.

  • @coryledwitch6492
    @coryledwitch6492 2 месяца назад

    That’s an interesting concept about the one ring within a crappy deck making it more competitive. Not sure I agree there, though. I’d ask the question, “Does this card just generically elevate the level of my deck by itself?” Regardless of whether you are drawing all your bad cards, you are still filtering through your deck to get to the good cards. Likewise, unless everyone unless is playing that card and all decks are relatively crappy or even in PL, you are hugely breaking parody by slapping down a super powerful draw engine. This is the moment that you become the archenemy. That’s why people are saltier over the one ring rather than, say Sol Ring. Everyone at the table probably has one, so everyone has an equal chance of drawing it.

  • @AtlasAdvice254
    @AtlasAdvice254 2 месяца назад

    I used to not be a fan of more than 1-2 wrath effects, until everything started having ward on it. Now to beast within, stroke of midnight, generous gift etc a commander it costs 5 mana. If you’re against a myurim deck for example, you may as well just board wipe and get rid of all the tokens they’ve shot out as well for that much mana

  • @masterthnag105
    @masterthnag105 2 месяца назад +1

    Sol ring doesn't need to go in every deck. The more colored pips you have the less useful it is.

  • @danielscully449
    @danielscully449 2 месяца назад +2

    I love how half of these are cards that make you pay attention or do something (shuffling, pay the one, etc) and the rest are wraths lol
    I have to agree on some of these though ngl

  • @Glanbalf
    @Glanbalf 2 месяца назад

    Managing multiple +1/+1 counters is actually super easy with dry erase round tokens on the top of the cards

  • @gaugeth
    @gaugeth 2 месяца назад +1

    Can confirm i run The One Ring in every single one of my decks, excluding precons.

  • @VinegarAndSaltedFries
    @VinegarAndSaltedFries 2 месяца назад

    Genuinely I have cases of Ultimate Guard Katana’s I love shuffling because of them. Dragonshield is also nice but Katana’s are just so much smoother. Awesome sponsor and product

  • @mopanda81
    @mopanda81 2 месяца назад

    honestly starting to enjoy things like river's rebuke that are a one player reset button but don't have to knock everyone else off tempo as a good "calm down" signal

  • @discoviolenza1984
    @discoviolenza1984 2 месяца назад

    There have been cards I've started cutting because I don't want to track because I don't like carrying around 20 dice and a bunch of extra tokens. Cards like Cathars crusade, Scute Swarm and Chrome Host Sea Shark come to mind.

  • @PalPlays
    @PalPlays 2 месяца назад

    People need to understand that there are effects that can achieve the effect of a wrath without putting the archenemy massively ahead. Sleep and River's Rebuke read "put the fear of God in target player."
    Wraths slow down the archenemy, but they hardly ever stop them.

  • @charmandenator5686
    @charmandenator5686 2 месяца назад

    Protip for counter players: d10s and percentiles
    If you have 15 counters, put the percentile to 10, the d10 to 5. As long as you don't go over 100, it works perfectly

  • @3gard0g-s7one2
    @3gard0g-s7one2 2 месяца назад +3

    tomer needs a hug and reassurance about his hands

  • @d.a.d.-ohgosh
    @d.a.d.-ohgosh 2 месяца назад

    Another comment for Mr. Tomer. This time with the flip cards. Specifically with MDFC'S. I usually just don't even bother flipping them. Just put them with my lands and call it a day. The vast majority of the time people are going to understand that my Kabira Takedown is a tapped white source. If anyone asks, just explain. However it is pure laziness to not flip your flip/modal cards lol.

  • @Guitar_Guy85
    @Guitar_Guy85 2 месяца назад

    I love listening to you guys having to adjust to the problems us pleebs who don't play online deal with constantly. Haha. I just might start watching game play videos now.

  • @L4TMTG
    @L4TMTG 2 месяца назад +3

    Use osgir for the bobble head deck, use all token doublers seth

    • @supranova7594
      @supranova7594 2 месяца назад +1

      Osgir def not a bad choice I'm working on an Orvar build that twiddles all the bobble heads and cloudpost lands so I have tons of mana and tons on bobbleheads to activate for massive value. Plus replicating rings and Mechanized production style cards caring about having multiples

  • @steaddie527
    @steaddie527 2 месяца назад

    I'm currently building an Inti, Seneschal of the Sun deck and 'The Celestus' seems like a serious consideration surprisingly, despite the terrible dreaded day/night

  • @Haaskeer
    @Haaskeer 2 месяца назад

    Okay theres 2 ways to play mdfc's:
    1: you have one side in each of the decks you play. And in you Token-Deck you have the backside sleeved in another color so you dont accidently put it in your deck
    2: you have a proxy card in your deck and the original in a inner sleeve in your token-deck. That way you can play either side and dont need to do this whole turn around thing

  • @user-zk7fr2yl5r
    @user-zk7fr2yl5r 2 месяца назад +1

    Instead of running those 8-12 pieces of interaction just start running 15 boardwipes

  • @jturn314
    @jturn314 2 месяца назад

    Another reason for more wraths in your decks is that everything has ward nowadays so even one mana targeted removal ends up costing three or four mana or whatever so why not just deal with everything with a wrath at near the same cmc

  • @zadocr675
    @zadocr675 2 месяца назад

    I think Farewell is necessary, especially when we get more cards with hexproof and/or indestructible or cards that grant those abilities to permanents

  • @codytx2
    @codytx2 2 месяца назад

    I play Cathars' Crusade in my First Sliver deck & have the same issue. They all end up different power, stacks of dice, easy to lose track of as they cascade.

  • @trotskysrevenge
    @trotskysrevenge 2 месяца назад +1

    every time i hear about this "lifeswap" deck of Tomer's, he's talking about how he runs yet another extremely strong card in this "very casual" deck. last time he was trying to say Ad Nauseum is a casual card because he like to play it in his lifeswap deck. How many very strong staples that cost life for casting or use are in that deck? i really can't believe its a casual deck. i think its just his pet deck that he doesn't want to admit is way more competitive than he says it is

  • @PrimNexus
    @PrimNexus 2 месяца назад +2

    Couldn't have Richard just done this episode solo

  • @Momo_pstat4
    @Momo_pstat4 Месяц назад

    Maybe im wrong here, but here me out. White is the color where the generic staples are the most prevalent compared to all other colors. Green feels like the color where staples are the least important, cause while the land ramp stuff is good, mana dorks also exist, and the rest of green feels not stapley. Blue feels the second most staple heavy color. Black and red kinda feel like green where staples are semi important, but there are some outliers that make them very prominent.

  • @manwithabasicprofilepic
    @manwithabasicprofilepic 2 месяца назад

    Comment section check about the One Ring. I only have one copy of it, and only because my LGS had four of them come in at once, and even then I only run it in my CEDH deck and don’t bother making any proxies of it for other decks.