This is probably the most well thought out and articulated opinion I've seen on the matter. Kudos, VJ. And, I've got to say, I'm in complete agreement.
i totaly agree with you, i combat logged only once in my good +15 encounters with CMDRs (somehow people realy like to shoot at anacondas) but one time i was just relocating to a system ans then i got interdicted by 3 corvettes (not a fair fight by any means). i summit and then i turn around, weapons down and try to comunicate with them. first they were starting to state bulshit about how i was trespassing on their systems (realy bro, i saw your ships following me for 2 jumps) and then "jk ramming speed speed". i took a corvete to the face but it seems this corvette forgot to put 4pips into shield because he took a serious beating. i wasn't going to engage the fight. i first tryed to high wake away but my shield tank were gone in seconds. then they kept ramming me to put me off course. I decided this time to combat log because i didn't wanted to give this band of jerks the satisfaction of blowing me up. also realy nice editing dude
***** by encounters i speak about encounters with hostile gankers. i am rather good at dodging those dudes, even if i fly a conda, resonably the most eye candy ship for them. with a type 9 (never saw in open) and a type 6
They should add system of with ranks 1 kill Your notoriety is now -5 up to -25 and locks you from going up to a normal notoriety rank and people who have a positive notoriety of+1 up +25 Won’t become wanted. Each positive rank will give you bonus stats buff for each level of positive notoriety you gain. Only against other players who are in the negative numbers.. It will give you + 8% damage bonus per level up to 200% and a solid 3% damage resistance up to 75%.. Plasma accelerator will not go do more damage or ignore this bonus resistance. You also gain +2% health on shield and armor per level of positive notoriety... Same thing happen when you are in negative numbers With débuff instead being buff. Having -5 will lock you to this notoriety level for a week and if you kill another player who isn’t wanted during the 1 week, you also double the time and resets your week of penalty to a total of 2. And now you have - 10 in bad notoriety.. And the debuffs will be -80% damage penalty the limit of damage penalty is limited to 80% damage penalty.. In if you are with other people in the same instance who have negative notoriety « being in a wing doesn’t change » you and the other players with negative numbers, will now receive +50% incoming damage per player who have negative numbers. And those debuffs only and buff form this system will only benefit or penalize the players and will not impact PVE combat. Gaining a positive 10 positive notoriety will take you as much time as it takes to get a élite rank. If you kill someone who are not wanted, your PVP buffs will get suspended for a week and if you kill someone else after or during your suspended time.. you lose 7 ranks.
Decent video with some excellent and fair points. Only 3 criticisms: 1. Don't worry about what Obsidian Ant does. We don't judge your videos or anyone else's by his or his timing. If it's a hot topic we expect to see your take on it, so no qualifiers needed. 2. We'd rather see footage from the game (I have probably an hour's worth of combat logs I could put together for you) and not some weird Halo ODST dude wagging about. 3. I disagree with the concept of "over-engineered". It's just engineered. If I'm smarter and harder working than the next CMDR, and figure out the magic recipe, then I didn't "over engineer", I just engineered better. That's just survival of the fittest. Otherwise, decent video and needs to be heard and heeded by all; including Fdev!
VJ, it was a few months ago, but I remember it vividly, I was trading in a Keelback(noob) and was interdicted by a Vulture, and killed without declaration. It was devastating, I was very new to the game then (still am), but as a new player it made me scared of psychopaths in open and played in solo for about a week but wanted to play open to meet other people. Anyway thx for the video. :)
Good work mate. Keep em coming, love hearing what other have to say about this. I've joined Mobius a while ago and I'm so glad I did. I was nearly killed a few times by other players that just opened fire without any comms whatsoever while there was no reason to do so. I've never combat logged, just managed to get away every time. Since joining Mobius I enjoy the game so much more tho!
I posted this on ObsidianAnt's video about combat logging. These PvP douchebags that complain about combat logging keep saying "It's part of the game. If you don't like it play in Solo." Well, what if we want the social experience of co-op without having to do PvP? The problem is that they want to make me play a game that I paid for the way _they_ want to play it. So I have a deal for you. Not only will I never combat log, I won't jump away and will stay and fight to the death. In return, Frontier will implement a system where, if you have ever killed an unwanted player, everytime you log on you have 24 hours to do the following. Mine 5 tons of Painite. Make 10 million credits profit from commodities trading. Complete 5 mission board missions. Complete 5 passenger missions. Travel at least 1000 ly from your current location, find an undiscovered earthlike or waterworld, and return and sell the exploration data at your original location. If you do not meet these requirements within 24 hours your ship will self destruct. Deal?
Brilliant video. I'm pretty new to ED and I play solo. Because of the grief given to new commanders by griefers. Elite has a very steep learning curve to start with. Just figuring out all your various thruster strengths, fire groups, etc is hard enough without some commander thinking it's "fun" to blow us into the vacuum of space for no good reason. I'd like to play in open. I'd like to play in a group of commanders on missions. Hard to meet new players in solo.
It can happen, I rammed my friends Eagle with my Viper mk3 after traveling to a station equipping fuel limpets, jumping to his location while he started to perish in the black because he had run out of fuel, when I entered his location I spawned a little too close to him and collided, space dusting him instantly!For some reason he is never online when I am??
Mech Fett I killed an innocent asp CMDR as I boosted out of the slot in my cutter. The slot was empty when I hit boost by the time I saw him it was too late, the station did then open fire on me and kill me for committing murder though so all square I reckon.
danqrl yes, you deserved that for not following station protocol! I still find it funny but kinda atmosphere breaking when, as happened in front of me last night, a npc type 9 got stuck in the toaster, then the Beluga liner got its stupid oversized fins caught. Both got annihilated by the station, its was as if a million voices all cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced...
well one time i was shoping at founder words, and it was when there was no penalties to ramming. i just finished equiping my type 9 and then i boosed out of the mailslot. i killed a type 6, a player in a cobra and a security eagle. i was feeling both as a Dick and a bad ass :)
i like you, if people who claimed to be pirates actually followed the meaning of piracy then people would be less inclined to log i think, e.g. i have had a lot of pirates ask me for 10 of my 150 cargo and ill give them 20 just to be safe and they fly on there way and i really dont care that ive lost a bit of cargo, however i will freely admit that i have logged in a few cases where a pirate has asked for cargo, i have given them what they asked for with a bit extra as a sort of 'plz let me live bribe' and then instead of leaving with what they asked for they then opened fire for no reason. also in these situations i dont feel guilty because if your not going to play fair and follow the ''rules'' of being a pirate then fuck you im not going to play fair or by the rules either.
danqrl you know, one time i was flying my conda, and a pirate interdicted me. first i thought it was an npc so i submited, opened my guns and then i saw it was a player in a cobra. before i turned around he pasted that whatever cargo i had i give him 8 and go free. but when i turned around he was doing like i was going to blast him off the face of the universe. he was surprised that i actually handed him the cargo. then we talked a bit and i learnt that he was doing piracy for 1 guy, who was ranking piracy missions in his FDL, but menaced this noob to chase it around the universe and ruin his game if he didn't bringed him what he wanted. the poor dude wasn't very sucesfull as most of the traders he managed to interdict were NPC's that would run and summon the police in 3 sec. so i told him that i would hand him 320 (they were still worth something back then) tons of rare goods if he had the amability to show me his boss. so he flew to the system and told the pirate to drop at the nav beacon to transfert the goods. there i droped with my new friend in front of him. and that day, i taught this dude a valuable lesson. today, he and i are still close friend and we keep wandering around, raising hell together. piracy done right is a realy good thing, a hard but fun job to do and it give a good meaning and depth to pvp
danqrl you know, one time i was flying my conda, and a pirate interdicted me. first i thought it was an npc so i submited, opened my guns and then i saw it was a player in a cobra. before i turned around he pasted that whatever cargo i had i give him 8 and go free. but when i turned around he was doing like i was going to blast him off the face of the universe. he was surprised that i actually handed him the cargo. then we talked a bit and i learnt that he was doing piracy for 1 guy, who was ranking piracy missions in his FDL, but menaced this noob to chase it around the universe and ruin his game if he didn't bringed him what he wanted. the poor dude wasn't very sucesfull as most of the traders he managed to interdict were NPC's that would run and summon the police in 3 sec. so i told him that i would hand him 320 (they were still worth something back then) tons of rare goods if he had the amability to show me his boss. so he flew to the system and told the pirate to drop at the nav beacon to transfert the goods. there i droped with my new friend in front of him. and that day, i taught this dude a valuable lesson. today, he and i are still close friend and we keep wandering around, raising hell together. piracy done right is a realy good thing, a hard but fun job to do and it give a good meaning and depth to pvp
Great video dude, love the avatar too, I think you summed up the main reason for combat logging. The 'griefers' on reddit probably don't like it as they were trying to find a way to push fdev, but I think they are mainly ignored by the developers which is great. And yeah since the aggressive crowd started moderating the reddit it has become really terrible, but us average gamers will fight the good fight!!
Agree 100% with your stance and I'm sure most players will agree with you. Proper crime&punishment system (and bonuses for playing in open). It doesn't really matter in what way the actual implementation is done, but FD does have the proper systems and tools (security levels etc.) already in place, they just need to put it all together.
A point I'd like to bring up. It was with the introduction of Community Goals we first saw this huge upscale in "Griefing" outside of the regions surrounding Lave. Following behind that; all these mission exploits everyone seems so keen to utilize. What trait do these two money making schemes have in common? They confine a relatively large amount of players to a proportionally small area. Of course you're going to see this kind of misanthropic behavior, because Frontier effectively introduced target rich environments. This kind of thing has been going on since the days of Everquest, why would it stop now? Personally, I'm okay with players being unremittent monsters, because A) you can't really do anything about it anyway (at least not without royally screwing up PvP in general) and B) it adds an amount of tension to a game otherwise devoid of it. Admittedly, when you drop into a system of interest to find a small flotilla of murderous psychopaths sharpening their knives, it can be a stressful situation, but look at it like this. That queasy sensation as the bottom drop out of your stomach; the sudden heat behind your eyeballs that makes every color stand out that much more brightly. That's adrenaline. Therein lies the excitement.
YES! Absolutely what Vindicator Jones said... Agree 100% with this video. I didn't think it was possible to top Obsidian Ant's video on the subject - but Vindicator Jones just did. Awesome!!! Hope Frontier Developments are SERIOUSLY looking into this video and taking notes. Great ideas and great coverage of this subject.
The issue could be solved, if grievers had to carry the insurance rebuy cost if they kill clean not hostile players. Just like the car insurance in real life.
Ghost 2224 is right! What has it to do with pirating to burst ships that have no way to defend against much stronger ships.... and having not even cargo on them?!
Cmdr you hit it right on nail ! I've never combat logged myself but I do totally agree. I feel like there's several griefer's out there who get away with way too much and they publicly complain about others whom combat log.
Great video. I tried open 3 days in to playing the game and a maxed out FDL yanked and yanked in 3 seconds with corrosive ammo. Been playing Solo for almost 2 weeks, learning the game. Once I get better and can fight back, I’ll go back.
Frontier is not hesitant because of some moral dilemma. They just didn't set up any system to cross-check network stats and reports from players. They've been lazy about it until now.
Joshua Boguiren Because they have a clearly stated position on it. It's against the rules. It's just that recently players have proven that nothing happens to the perpetrators.
Robyn Highart is a trader who's tired of being ganked for no reason a scumbag? Own his own? No. Fine, cheating makes him a scumbag. But he is a scumbag BECAUSE he is cheating, not because he's intrinsically a scumbag. (maybe he is, i dont fucking care, you understand the point I'm trying to convey).
I was once trying to build my rank up with Empire. I am not in alliance with any power. I have an ASP explorer (Unarmed). If I am armed I do not engage other Cmdrs! I met a Cmdr in a Python (which I am trying to get). I complimented them on ship, asked if they wanted to wing up. Went our separate ways. Next thing I know, I am being interdicted by same Cmdr. I submit, and immediately they are firing on me. I escape by jumping to a system they can't reach. I went back to complete my mission. Player still there, attacks me again. This time my game crashes.. but I would have escaped them again! This player was just an asshole trying to destroy a much weaker defenceless ship. I still play in open play, and I don't combat log.. On this occasion my game crashed. But you are right, some do just quit playing in open.
Lengthy Emperor even if open is dangerous, i still play it because it give meaning to my actions. i was ganked more than 10 times i the last year, sometimes with overmingly low odds of survival, yet i alway escaped. like in EVE, the fact that an ashole can be around every corner renforce the emotion around doing risky things and you get to play in a bigger universe. but the Amount of straight op psychos runing around ruining people days is not good for the game.
I think one of the reasons ppl combat log is because of ganking. Maybe we should have a feature where you accept or decline a player interdiction, but only if you are not wanted.
The one thing about pvp is the types of players that want to do it but the second they are losing they leave but when you are back in super-cruise without warning that same player would interdict you and destroy you in a better ship without any warnings. A good example would be you 1v1 him and he is using the ASP explorer and you are using your imperial clipper/federal drop-ship but when he comes back he is in a wing and he is using a anaconda and his other friend is in a federal corvette.
If im minding my business in my diamond back exploring trading and i get ganked by some over engineered dip shit after hes scanned my vessel and the results returned that o have no weapons or shields YOU DAMN RIGHT IM GOING TO COMBAT LOG screw him why should i be the victim
I think the most important thing here, as VJ points out, is that if there is no game mechanic counter to the murder/mayhem crowd, and players who *feel* like they are being griefed are going to be censured in some way for logging ... then Open is going to be a desert. Keep in mind, a video game is for fun. If it isn't fun, players will just stop doing it. I personally play in Open, even when live streaming, but I've also never had to deal with someone one-shotting me every time I come out of space dock after a rebuy, either. If I had to deal with that -- well, that's no fun, and I'd be playing closed or playing something else for the rest of the night. In an MMO, the *players* are the content. Emergent gameplay is the Big Thing for MMOs, and you only get that with lots of players playing together. If the murder/mayhem crowd drive everyone into closed games instead of Open, then the only thing going on in Open will be the murder/ mayhem crowd. I can't see how that would be a great direction for the game to take. Excellent video, VJ. Well reasoned, well spoken. The animation was fun, too.
I agree for the most part, but one thing to keep in mind is that escaping only really takes 15 seconds if you're not well versed in High Waking. Chances are greater than not you're going to jump more than 20ly at a time, which is more than far enough for most PvP equipped ships to try and follow your wake. The root of the problem is that playing in Open has no benefits to just playing PG/Solo. Other than saying that you trade in Open, there's no real reason to do so. There's no reason to lose jump range and space to put decent shielding on your trading vessel. Players Combat Logging after a negative player interaction do have the option to play in PG and not have to worry about task killing the game as fast as possible. My argument is that if you're going to Combat Log after being Interdicted, you need to play PG/Solo because you are exploiting the game to avoid loss. Certain cmdrs/groups have also set the stage to "dying instantly" because of their ship having 80mj of shielding and 200 hull or whatever. There are also groups dedicated to telling people to not play in open and if they do, to Combat Log. Other groups feel that since Frontier doesn't take action against Combat Logging, that it is therefor endorsed by a lack of action. Interesting and good video, but I do disagree to a degree. I feel Open should be allowed to be the wild west it is due to this mostly resembling real life. There are villains out to get you, as well as the police fighting for you. For a simulation such as ED, I wouldn't want a sterile environment to play in.
yep couldn't agree more, nice vid. I've not had to combat log yet, but then I've never been to an area that has these evil pilots populate. We do need better punishment for the pilots that pray on new players. love the avatar presentation, keep up the good work.
More great content Jones. balanced and we'll thought out. It's this kind of approach and thinking that will move the game to a stronger place rather than CMDRs wasting time hanging shit on each other.
Thanks for the video Vindicator. I am a new player and have been playing for a few month's. I acually had to look up what combat logging was haha. Never done it. I just play if i win i win if i dont oh well. I think its been part of my learning curve. Cheers from cmdr inksmith1 on xbox one console.
Random daily attacks from big ships against my sidewinder is what has kept me from open . Now ive been in a PG, I'm happy playing the game still 8 months later. so I felt drove out.
Some good point VJ. We all suffer due to CL and griefers. I guess bullies will be bullies though. I wish FD would introduce a better crime and punishment system, PVP only rewards and bounty hunting only rewards.
Very nice. I think you qualified the essence of the issue, expressed an actual balanced (but real) opinion, and have re-iterated some ideas on what can be done to fix this (aside from not being a dick). Eve (whether you like its model or not), took a long time to get to the point they are at now. I am sure Frontier is planning something to help make PVP (and other aspects of the game) more workable/rewarding, and people will have to be a bit patient. They have an awful lot on their plate. That said, make exploration worth doing godammit! And to quote Worthabuy, bring back the #!%$n Thargoids already!
I tried open for a bit, had just bought the game and left my starting station about 30 second into supercruise got interdicted by someone in a wing with 2 condas. Didn't have cargo or bounty or anything got killed in 2 seconds with no warning. Let's just say haven't played open since
Took me a while to figure out what combat logging even was. Maybe I'm just OLD but I had a mental picture of keeping a LOG of ships/cmdr's met in combat and the results of the meeting. I actually considered doing this. Until I realized that something akin to 99.998% of the opponents I might face would be NPC unless I specifically set out to find live opponents. Too much work for too little gain. I've gotten into more than a few scrapes where I needed to NOPE out before it ended. But it never occurred to me to just hit the kill switch on my PC to log out quickly. Been more times than I prefer to admit to where I should have NOPE'd out but I just wanted to see if I could kill ONE of them. The way I see it is if you're beating them badly enough to make them cut and run by whatever means. You WON. Perhaps they will remember you and the butt kicking you handed them and afford you a wide path in future. Maybe you can catch them trash talking later on and remind them of why they had to log off in the middle of a fight.
I must admit ive combat logge in solo some times, and one time when i was interdicted and assaulted with No reason at all (As i held No value in cargo, bounty, notoriety and have No rank in federation or empire). Im not proud of it, but im not ashamed of it either. I dont want to buy back my 20 million exploration anaconda because some bored pvp'er in an FDL can bring down my 1750 effective hitpoints in a few hot seconds. Im not going to play Solo because i enjoy bantering with commanders, and its joyous to meet commanders 2k lightyears away from the bubble. I understand an interdiction when i have big bounties or 500 tonnes of valuable cargo, and i dont mind dumping some into space to keep going to where im supposed to be, piracy is good, but i dont understand ganking.
They should add system of with ranks 1 kill Your notoriety is now -5 up to -25 and locks you from going up to a normal notoriety rank and people who have a positive notoriety of+1 up +25 Won’t become wanted. Each positive rank will give you bonus stats buff for each level of positive notoriety you gain. Only against other players who are in the negative numbers.. It will give you + 8% damage bonus per level up to 200% and a solid 3% damage resistance up to 75%.. Plasma accelerator will not go do more damage or ignore this bonus resistance. You also gain +2% health on shield and armor per level of positive notoriety... Same thing happen when you are in negative numbers With débuff instead being buff. Having -5 will lock you to this notoriety level for a week and if you kill another player who isn’t wanted during the 1 week, you also double the time and resets your week of penalty to a total of 2. And now you have - 10 in bad notoriety.. And the debuffs will be -80% damage penalty the limit of damage penalty is limited to 80% damage penalty.. In if you are with other people in the same instance who have negative notoriety « being in a wing doesn’t change » you and the other players with negative numbers, will now receive +50% incoming damage per player who have negative numbers. And those debuffs only and buff form this system will only benefit or penalize the players and will not impact PVE combat. Gaining a positive 10 positive notoriety will take you as much time as it takes to get a élite rank. If you kill someone who are not wanted, your PVP buffs will get suspended for a week and if you kill someone else after or during your suspended time.. you lose 7 ranks.
Good video. I was interested to hear your comments on Eve-Online. If I may describe Eve for those who haven't tried it? If you attack anyone/anything in High/Medium/Low security space in Eve then the police will turn up and turn you to scrap. You may have time to kill the target or not but you know you are going to lose your ship. Eve has no Solo mode. If you want to attack other ships without any consequences then you move to the greater parts of the Eve universe that are ''Null-sec''. Elite Dangerous is crying out for some system like this. Safer (but not totally safe) space in the bubble (which itself could have differing degrees of security). The rest of the galaxy would be lawless. And yes, a bad reputation should stick, even to the point of preventing access to the bubble. Critics of Eve point to the number of players who never set foot outside of safe-space but that is the players choice. Many say that joining a big alliance in Null-sec is far safer because you are protected by your colleagues. I would vouch for this as I've done both over a period of 14 years playing. And if you're wondering why I have moved over to Elite, it's because I'm far too bloody old to handle the keyboard and mouse histrionics that Eve requires. Thanks for listening.
simple way to explain it is credit grind is so grindy that a lot of players play for weeks even months to finally be able to afford that ship they want and it maybe they are out of credits....and then boom you get interdicted and attacked by someone and if you lose you are back in a sidewinder as if you just bought the game...I think the fact that players can get bank rupted and lose EVERYTHING is a reason ppl combat log. In games like GTA5 if you die w.e. you have your apartment still your cars etc. In elite...if you fly and die...you can end up back in a sidewinder even if you have 1000 hours of playtime as if you had 0 hours.
They should just add a module that is essentially calling the cops... If you get attacked without a bounty or attacked with cargo under x amount of credits you can activate this module and the System security shows up as back up. (The higher the grade, the better the ships that come to help you)
BlackIce 12 nice idea. you know, before ships had a built in distress beacon which would alow security ships to drop on your location 1/4 of the normal time if you were atacked (and not doing nothing or atacking). but they removed it for no reason.
A fair and balanced point of view, but you are appealing to maturity. That is sorely lacking in the ED community. ED Open needs a major redesign in order to mitigate the effects of what people will do when they have no bounds. I am not talking about a crime and punishment only, but also about the all-seeing sensors, open radar markers, and general low count of NPC traffic. The game is seriously skewed to make conflict easy, but that makes abuse easy.
Jose A. Ramos and durring this time, all the changes to weapon to make non enginieers ships perform whorse make PVE harder. now when i get i to combat zones 15 enemy ships turn on me, before it was 1or 2 max but now frontier realy want everyone to fly modded corvettes in open
I still maintain that any CMDR proven to have combat logged should have Frontier forcibly and permanently apply a poo-brown paintjob to all of their ships.. they would forever be stuck flying a space turd and everyone would know exactly what they did to "earn" the combat log paintjob :p
I know this is an old video, and I'll likely drop my idea elsewhere. But why not incorporate a system like Runescape's wilderness? Kinda... Starting areas: No one can fight slightly further away from start, ranks close to your rank can fight and so on and so on, going further and further out. OR less cost to death when not wanted in these zones or...what about going a bit further and use a formula of Dist. from starter zone + Dist. from surrounding systems? Essentially, it would be a spider-web of highways, where the threads are routes of small jumps and the empty space of the web are the patches of space without close connections. (And naturally we do see a spider web getting less densely packed with thread as it get's built outwards) So noobs would be fine, they would be warned to stay on the strings once they get bigger jump range. Vets who haul cargo would do big jumps across to the next safe thread, and could invoke community protection or escort to cross the 'gank lands'. I know it seems complicated. But essentially it would create a proper pirate experience that could interact more realistically with the other player types, where co-ordination / knowledge / tracking / planning / evasion would be more invoked and more in depth. I think a system like this would allow gankers to be gankers. Destigmatizing them into 'marauders' or 'hunters' The community could on the one hand organize escorts for traders for traversing down some of the darker, outer threads. Where it would be more fair, more exciting and more rewarding if you make it through. And on the other, aggressive players could collaborate together to form hunting parties, blockading, ambushing or stalking the back alleys and key crossings. Get the hauler / explorer through! and see if you can have a good fight in the process. TLDR: Further away from center, and further away from tightly packed systems = how risky player interactions are. An ED - Wilderness.
The wanted/bounty system should be updated so that If you kill a commander(person, not an AI) for no good reason(if you are being a griefer) you should have an extra permanent bounty that declares you in big red letters to anyone who see's you "COMMANDER KILLER/GRIEFER" or something to that nature. It should last until you die or wait a long time(or do some good deed or something-perhaps complete multiple refugee aid missions or stuff like that). I don't really know what to do about combat loggers, but this should at least make it extremely unpopular to be a griefer(and socially hated as well as easily recognizable) What do you think of this?
Have a players ship stay active in space for 60 sec after logging, and create an escape vector amplifier module (or whatever you want to call it) that will increase an escape vectors diameter to assist in countering interdictors with its effectiveness measured against the class and rank of the agressors interdiction module by its own class and rank. Meet half way!
I never combat logged, even when I got caught for free twice during a CG. Just two psychos, not even a little RP message to create some ambiance. I added them to friends after the wreckage but one got rude to me and said "Go to solo". The other deleted me without responding. I don't want to argue on this way to play Elite, actually I think we need interstellar criminals I just think Fdev really need to work on the judiciary aspect of the game. Until then I stopped flying an expensive ship, and I learned for the second time to enjoy little ships, fast, nimble, and damn deadly with PAs :D
I like you thought. But I'm not coming over to open what so ever. I tried it once . Got interdicted by a greifer, ACowforAllSeasons, who blew up my brand-new Krait instantly. I lost my new ship, 6 hours of exploration data, and a ton of money that I could not replace. It's not worth going open. Especially since they can keep greifing without any consequences what so ever.
Pointless griefing pushed me into Solo because I don't want to get game-raped for no reason and with no consequence. I would love to PvP ocassionally, and I don't mind being pirated or intercepted because I am of an opposing faction or whatnot. But being ganked with no interaction or chance to interact, surrender and/or really fight is only frustrating. As I don't want to combat log away from a griefer or supposed griefer (I might judge some attacks wrongly) when that happens, I now play solo all the time ... which is sad. Thank you for the video.
Unfortunately, that's exactly how it seems. Amazes me how people can get offended by simply suggesting that they dont act like mass murderers and instead join in organized PVP fights, and PVP all day long!
These few so-called PVPers are not interested in actual PVP. Player versus Player would mean they get into a fight. As in, with an opponents. A fleeing trqader/explorer isn't an opponent - it's an innocent bystander who gets into the crosshairs of a psycho. The afore-mentioned PVPers do not want to fight - they shy away from actual fights.
Wont Tell ... exactly my thoughts. To me, pvp was always about a fair fight, testing each others skills. Hell, I stopped playing MMOs back then with warhammer online - before anyone shouts carebear..... I do love a good fight vs. a human player! So HOW is an engineered ship vs. an unengineered ship considered a 'good' fight? Somebody please enlighten me....? ... seriously, to me, it's nothing but showing off: Showing off that a lot of the wannabe-PVPers have very small sized penises. Just my 2 cent.... :)
Steve Nme Yeah, that's exactly why it isn't about a fight for the typical ganker/griefer. It's about being a nuisance to someone els, not about being competitive, not about comparing skill levels or learning from someone who is better than you. It's kinda sad because they miss out on what makes a PVP environment truly thrilling and fun.
ive had a rather fun(sarcasm intended) experience during a CG. A group of 4, 3 in FDL and 1 in an anaconda, i was in a little cobra mk3 they interdict me and only the interdicter and 2 of the other 3 drop the 4th staying in Super-cruise i eventually manage to jump because i didnt really and still dont like the idea of being forced to high wake out esp 3ls away from a base to land at, so of-course the 4th guy waiting in super-cruise takes me back to normal space and again scenario repeats only this time of-course i die because i was already damaged and barely made it out the first time , had no cargo, was a mostly harmless ranked pilot, wasn't wanted nada didnt want to bother with powerplay so that wasnt a thing either. Only thing ever said was during the first interdiction "happy ganksgiving" and the firing started. i come across the same group only a couple weeks later ( i was playing 16hour days at that time so heh) while in my fully kitted out python and in a wing and of-course they immediately log from game while in SC no drop out just boom gone because of-course they wont actually risk a real fight with any ship that might stand a snowballs chance in hell of surviving more then 1 second if they turn to fight. what did they get out of it a measly 6k bounty on their heads split between all 4 of them so 1.5k for a cheap laugh nothing but a bunch of cowards, people like that are utter shit and just toxify and ruin the gaming experience for others. on the other-hand i had a interdiction from a guy that same week that actually stood and fought me 1 on 1 with similar ships him in a DBS while im in my cobra mk3 so of-course i don't bother to try running its a fair fight, and when he had the balls to chase me a few hours later when im grouped up with my friends now THAT was a real PvP'r so hats off to ArmaDolphins my first and still only encountered REAL pvp'r in elite dangerous after over 700hours of my game time spent in open play and to clarify i get the first scenario on a nearly hourly basis if im anywhere near player inhabited regions or god help me actually in one of the highly player populated systems in open like CG systems those are utter hell if your not setup for combat and in a group.
We talk about populating "Open" but FD is not helping. Here's what I mean. If FD were to put in a "waiting room" for commanders who want to play with others in open that sure would help. They could put it on the same menu as open, solo, group page. Just add the waiting room to the list. Here commanders who want to have some support while playing can get it. You can even break up the waiting room in to combat, trading, etc. If you don't want to go it alone, you can pick up a commander who is obviously playing in the same time period you want to play. Does anyone think this could be a good idea to help populate open with a much richer and rewarding " open" for all?
I did a bunch of logging out during combat recently... in solo play. Because I play in VR, and I was having problems with the HMD going black. Kind of hard to continue playing when you can't see anything. Beyond that, though, I hate non-consensual PVP in any game. Which is why I play solo exclusively, I have no interest in being someone's target while I'm trying to enjoy myself mining or making trade runs.
yes but not a lower ranked player that migth not do as much damage as other ships, I'm not disputing the 15 seconds isn't more than enough I'm just questioning why they can't put other counter measures that might get people out of combat logging, because 15 seconds in some cases isn't enough time for a player to eliminate its target before the target combat logs.
It is a dilemma of Frontier, if they would take serious action on one side or the other. They would have a huge effect on the other side and potentially Frontier could loose some a portion players they are not ready to loose. CL or gankers* is real, but before Frontier will take some serious measures with some huge effects, I am happy with the pain both sides are providing. * gankers is a reflex word from many players who got killed. Practically all PvP players are gankers, as there is a minimal chance that you find an opponent in a same ship (with equipment) to play fair. It is always about the advantage to have to make the kill. And btw philosophical, are not all PvE players in a CZ also gankers, as the poor NPC have no chance?
How I define gankers are those whos only concern is killing less defendable, innocent targets. Pirates are not gankers. people in powerplay are not innocents, people with bounties are fair game.. But I get where your coming from.. I wish either problem didnt exist.
i think the needed action is to clamp down on both sides of the trench. the game does need to prevent logging as much as possible, iether make it so your ship stays around for 10sec after losing connection, or put a penalty in place such as if you suddenly lose connection you are 2 jumps furthur back, 5 jumps if done in combat. or losing money of something. HOWEVER, there also needs to be severe consequencesfor mindless criminals. maybe something like a wanted status aswell as a bounty, have the authorities activley hunt you nomater where you go for a set time after commiting a crime, e.g. a ligit pirate will get hunted for 10min unless they can ecape and avoid going into contolled stations untill they lose the heat. but then a pirate that decides to murder the person that submitted and freely gave them what they wanted will be hunted by the authorities for 30min unless they can escape. they could maybe implement something that keeps a short record of what bounty you have, what items you have and the last so many people ytou interacted with so that it is easier to determin a legit pirate from a murderer or someone trying to get revenge, hell you could even make reveng killing get you wanted but only for 5min. i realy think that the current way bounties work where you are wanted on a system by system basis needs changing to have authorities follow you across multipe systems for a set time based on the severity of the crime unless you are able to lose them , think of it like an intergalactic version of the gta police but less dumb. tldr i really think we need to crack down of both sides.
ValeK _ .i actually like the idea. it is a good point to have bounties, at least player owned ones, spread across multiple neiboring systems. right now it is easyer to be a ganker floating in a system where they are wanted ans eagles interdic them, weras just carrying 3 tons of enginieers cargo get you elites anacondas, corvettes and assaults ships chassing you all the friking time, and in every system.
When I pvp (and I do it in a my Suicidal Idiot, a "Bald Eagle"), I fight until they are near 1 shot for me to kill, say good game, and then jump out. The only times I will not is when my ship is too low that it would be risky to turn my back, when fighting multiple opponents, or if they are attempting to win the Darwin Awards (I've tried to teach noobs in sideys about stuff, and they try to fight me, with default sideys, with their landing gear up). Hell I've had Vultures run from me, and pretty much only lost when the feds show up.
I've just started transporting goods for CG's in my Corvette, never been bothered once, guess the gankers (or whatever there called) only go after easy targets, don't think they can call it pvp at this point.
CMDR Y-Fronts they always do. they dont atack corvettes cause corvettes can fight back. they atack trader ships and anacondas (since the ship was so heavly nerfed and. ow strugle at tanking damage). they are not here for a fight, they are here to kill and prey on the weak.
CMDR Y-Fronts they always do. they dont atack corvettes cause corvettes can fight back. they atack trader ships and anacondas (since the ship was so heavly nerfed and. ow strugle at tanking damage). they are not here for a fight, they are here to kill and prey on the weak.
If any player flies a Sidewinder build with the specific intention to troll other players running cargo, then that player should not complain when they get trolled with a combat log.
I think the solution to the problem is erasing combat logging, it simply should not be a thing, making the ship still visible in-game for 15-20 seconds after a disconnection (like it was done in DayZ, wich had the same problem) AND imposing hard punishment for casual killing of peacefull players. The best way to do it is to have the bounty SUBTRACTED from the player balance on his death (and given to the killer), also they should be wanted in any system controlled by the power who controls the system where the crime was committed, making a pain in the ass to play in those systems. This will make them think twice before killing anyone, then care for their skin afterwards, and create a nice gameplay opportunity for bounty hunters.
Unless you have specifically sent this video to the Frontier Development team your just "Preaching to the Choir" VJ. It's solely in THEIR hands to fix this. Until then, people will just continue to be people.
Great minds think alike, especially in regards to safe zones and the reputation system. No fly zones for 'condas or engi'd ships near nubspace? As in, let them pass through, but they can't interdict/shoot people withunder x hours or rankings? idk...
I love the game.and my immersion is fast approaching 100%....but I'm poo at combat, I prefer trading, exploring and lore. I'd play open, but my 2 experiences in said mode resulted in me loosing all my hard work. I now fear Open mode. I've never combat logged, and until very recently had no idea such a thing existed. I've no answers to the griefer/log argument, and until the matter is resolved by better minds than mine, I'll stay in Mobious and solo. Pirates and economics: Cost of Pirate ship: 10million+ Fuel: 5k General wear and tear cost: 5k Ammo: 4k Damage from combat: 15k Interdiction fine: 400. Cargo Booty from destroying a ship: 8 bio waste Total worth on black market 200creds. This is called "Sound economics" in the pirate world, and fully justifies their role play style. *facepalm*
Yes, people being dicks is exactly why I no longer fly open unless I'm in the mood for a fight. Because there is always that one dick (or a wing of them) that kill people. Moreover they are cowards because they will attack you only if they have a bigger ship(s). It's not a thrill of anything, there is no challenge involved. As such, I don't even care anymore because I know that I will not get interdicted by pirates or people looking for a challenge. It will always be a dick, so I no longer wait for anything and open fire without asking and I view every other commander as a potential threat. This is the end result for me, which sucks big time and I really no longer enjoy open play. Instead of meeting new people, most of the time I rather keep to myself.
Only time I've combat logged was when I got interdicted by a player Python just after I bought my first Anaconda and was flying to another station for outfitting. I had enough money to rebuy it once or outfit it a little. I messaged the CMDR and said I had no cargo or bounty on me and asked him not to attack me. He didn't respond and opened fire on me anyway. I felt like a bit of a dick for doing it but I also thought he was a dick for attacking me for no reason after I had told him I had nothing on me.
Great intro/disclaimer and well phrased arguments. I clicked Like already, funnily, right before you said "You're not gonna like this." - I don't think I'll regret that Like-click ;)
The reputation system you outline with psychopath murderers being denied certain services in medium/high security systems strikes me as a good idea. Legitimate pirates won't blow anyone out of the sky (unless that darn cargo hatch is just impossible to hit without wearing down the ships hull first)
When i was brand new i was in a stock explorer and got killed by what i think was an engineered corvette, since then i combat log every time im interdicted. If theyre gonna ruin my experience ill ruin theirs
honestly i logging only when after a long journey exploration and someone just want to kill me... is kinda piss me off that i took weeks out in the black and just to repay my ship... sometimes i forgot to play solo...
Just display a explosion when somebody combat logs. In one instance the player logs out, in other instances the ship self destructs, problem solved. but what do I know, I only really play in solo anyways.
Yes, one year later and loads of major updates but this problem has not been addresses enough. Still too many dicks in FDL's. The founders system is rift. I believe 'Open' would be quite busy and very entertaining if the ganker issue was solved.
I really cant name them, as this was a while ago, and the players who did it more than the others have now left. It would be unfair to that group if I named them.
Most PVP groups know each other and are quite confused as to what group you describe though, if they log they aren't a PVP group. If it helps PM me the name.
me and 2 other friends with fully combat rigged annies patrol around noob area's looking for griefers that shoot down noobs for no reason, as that ruined their concept of the game, but when three of some of the biggest ships jump in outta nowhere s=jump in and save you, suddenly you realise hey there are nice commanders out there and they keep playing.
I have an idea: allow NPCs to combat log - then at least it will be less annoying for the 'griefers': as it will be become 'part of the game' that they're used-to. ;)
I have never combat logged but I cannot condemn those that do. The environment in open is very hostile in some systems and new or mid-level players are relentlessly destroyed. Perhaps as a start FDev could do a training video on how to successfully high-wake vs multiple griefers which is doable.
Frontier has done a shit job about incentivising not combat logging. Griefers get barely any bounty so theres no reason for "good" players to hunt down griefers. There should be some sort of special bounty to incentivise people to die to griefers. If you can get a fat cash stack from taking out a griefer, youll die knowing you made that griefer's risk of death increase.
I don't combat log. I decide to quit playing a game at convenient times.
This is probably the most well thought out and articulated opinion I've seen on the matter. Kudos, VJ. And, I've got to say, I'm in complete agreement.
i totaly agree with you, i combat logged only once in my good +15 encounters with CMDRs (somehow people realy like to shoot at anacondas) but one time i was just relocating to a system ans then i got interdicted by 3 corvettes (not a fair fight by any means). i summit and then i turn around, weapons down and try to comunicate with them. first they were starting to state bulshit about how i was trespassing on their systems (realy bro, i saw your ships following me for 2 jumps) and then "jk ramming speed speed". i took a corvete to the face but it seems this corvette forgot to put 4pips into shield because he took a serious beating. i wasn't going to engage the fight. i first tryed to high wake away but my shield tank were gone in seconds. then they kept ramming me to put me off course. I decided this time to combat log because i didn't wanted to give this band of jerks the satisfaction of blowing me up.
also realy nice editing dude
mansuy adrien totally would have done the same.
*****
by encounters i speak about encounters with hostile gankers. i am rather good at dodging those dudes, even if i fly a conda, resonably the most eye candy ship for them. with a type 9 (never saw in open) and a type 6
They should add system of with ranks
1 kill
Your notoriety is now -5 up to -25 and locks you from going up to a normal notoriety rank and people who have a positive notoriety of+1 up +25
Won’t become wanted.
Each positive rank will give you bonus stats buff for each level of positive notoriety you gain.
Only against other players who are in the negative numbers..
It will give you + 8% damage bonus per level up to 200% and a solid 3% damage resistance up to 75%..
Plasma accelerator will not go do more damage or ignore this bonus resistance.
You also gain +2% health on shield and armor per level of positive notoriety...
Same thing happen when you are in negative numbers With débuff instead being buff.
Having -5 will lock you to this notoriety level for a week and if you kill another player who isn’t wanted during the 1 week, you also double the time and resets your week of penalty to a total of 2.
And now you have - 10 in bad notoriety..
And the debuffs will be -80% damage penalty the limit of damage penalty is limited to 80% damage penalty..
In if you are with other people in the same instance who have negative notoriety « being in a wing doesn’t change » you and the other players with negative numbers, will now receive +50% incoming damage per player who have negative numbers.
And those debuffs only and buff form this system will only benefit or penalize the players and will not impact PVE combat.
Gaining a positive 10 positive notoriety will take you as much time as it takes to get a élite rank.
If you kill someone who are not wanted, your PVP buffs will get suspended for a week and if you kill someone else after or during your suspended time.. you lose 7 ranks.
Well thought out points VJ. I agree a reputation system needs to be in place, until then no open for me.
Totally agree with you on all of your points :-)
Decent video with some excellent and fair points. Only 3 criticisms:
1. Don't worry about what Obsidian Ant does. We don't judge your videos or anyone else's by his or his timing. If it's a hot topic we expect to see your take on it, so no qualifiers needed.
2. We'd rather see footage from the game (I have probably an hour's worth of combat logs I could put together for you) and not some weird Halo ODST dude wagging about.
3. I disagree with the concept of "over-engineered". It's just engineered. If I'm smarter and harder working than the next CMDR, and figure out the magic recipe, then I didn't "over engineer", I just engineered better. That's just survival of the fittest.
Otherwise, decent video and needs to be heard and heeded by all; including Fdev!
VJ, it was a few months ago, but I remember it vividly, I was trading in a Keelback(noob) and was interdicted by a Vulture, and killed without declaration. It was devastating, I was very new to the game then (still am), but as a new player it made me scared of psychopaths in open and played in solo for about a week but wanted to play open to meet other people. Anyway thx for the video. :)
Good work mate. Keep em coming, love hearing what other have to say about this. I've joined Mobius a while ago and I'm so glad I did. I was nearly killed a few times by other players that just opened fire without any comms whatsoever while there was no reason to do so. I've never combat logged, just managed to get away every time. Since joining Mobius I enjoy the game so much more tho!
I posted this on ObsidianAnt's video about combat logging.
These PvP douchebags that complain about combat logging keep saying "It's part of the game. If you don't like it play in Solo." Well, what if we want the social experience of co-op without having to do PvP? The problem is that they want to make me play a game that I paid for the way _they_ want to play it. So I have a deal for you.
Not only will I never combat log, I won't jump away and will stay and fight to the death. In return, Frontier will implement a system where, if you have ever killed an unwanted player, everytime you log on you have 24 hours to do the following. Mine 5 tons of Painite. Make 10 million credits profit from commodities trading. Complete 5 mission board missions. Complete 5 passenger missions. Travel at least 1000 ly from your current location, find an undiscovered earthlike or waterworld, and return and sell the exploration data at your original location. If you do not meet these requirements within 24 hours your ship will self destruct. Deal?
N7 Tigger If that doesn't keep people from killing innocents, I don't know what could...
Brilliant video. I'm pretty new to ED and I play solo. Because of the grief given to new commanders by griefers. Elite has a very steep learning curve to start with. Just figuring out all your various thruster strengths, fire groups, etc is hard enough without some commander thinking it's "fun" to blow us into the vacuum of space for no good reason.
I'd like to play in open. I'd like to play in a group of commanders on missions. Hard to meet new players in solo.
I have never combat logged but have killed an innocent CMDR once. I accidentally rammed a Type-6 with my Type-7.
It can happen, I rammed my friends Eagle with my Viper mk3 after traveling to a station equipping fuel limpets, jumping to his location while he started to perish in the black because he had run out of fuel, when I entered his location I spawned a little too close to him and collided, space dusting him instantly!For some reason he is never online when I am??
Mech Fett I killed an innocent asp CMDR as I boosted out of the slot in my cutter. The slot was empty when I hit boost by the time I saw him it was too late, the station did then open fire on me and kill me for committing murder though so all square I reckon.
danqrl yes, you deserved that for not following station protocol! I still find it funny but kinda atmosphere breaking when, as happened in front of me last night, a npc type 9 got stuck in the toaster, then the Beluga liner got its stupid oversized fins caught. Both got annihilated by the station, its was as if a million voices all cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced...
well one time i was shoping at founder words, and it was when there was no penalties to ramming. i just finished equiping my type 9 and then i boosed out of the mailslot. i killed a type 6, a player in a cobra and a security eagle. i was feeling both as a Dick and a bad ass :)
mansuy adrien HAHAHAHA!!!!!
I'm a legitimate pirate, I don't kill my targets and furthermore I don't take all the cargo either. You have 128 of something? Give me 8 and fly safe.
i like you, if people who claimed to be pirates actually followed the meaning of piracy then people would be less inclined to log i think,
e.g. i have had a lot of pirates ask me for 10 of my 150 cargo and ill give them 20 just to be safe and they fly on there way and i really dont care that ive lost a bit of cargo, however i will freely admit that i have logged in a few cases where a pirate has asked for cargo, i have given them what they asked for with a bit extra as a sort of 'plz let me live bribe' and then instead of leaving with what they asked for they then opened fire for no reason.
also in these situations i dont feel guilty because if your not going to play fair and follow the ''rules'' of being a pirate then fuck you im not going to play fair or by the rules either.
danqrl you know, one time i was flying my conda, and a pirate interdicted me. first i thought it was an npc so i submited, opened my guns and then i saw it was a player in a cobra. before i turned around he pasted that whatever cargo i had i give him 8 and go free. but when i turned around he was doing like i was going to blast him off the face of the universe. he was surprised that i actually handed him the cargo. then we talked a bit and i learnt that he was doing piracy for 1 guy, who was ranking piracy missions in his FDL, but menaced this noob to chase it around the universe and ruin his game if he didn't bringed him what he wanted. the poor dude wasn't very sucesfull as most of the traders he managed to interdict were NPC's that would run and summon the police in 3 sec. so i told him that i would hand him 320 (they were still worth something back then) tons of rare goods if he had the amability to show me his boss. so he flew to the system and told the pirate to drop at the nav beacon to transfert the goods. there i droped with my new friend in front of him. and that day, i taught this dude a valuable lesson. today, he and i are still close friend and we keep wandering around, raising hell together. piracy done right is a realy good thing, a hard but fun job to do and it give a good meaning and depth to pvp
danqrl you know, one time i was flying my conda, and a pirate interdicted me. first i thought it was an npc so i submited, opened my guns and then i saw it was a player in a cobra. before i turned around he pasted that whatever cargo i had i give him 8 and go free. but when i turned around he was doing like i was going to blast him off the face of the universe. he was surprised that i actually handed him the cargo. then we talked a bit and i learnt that he was doing piracy for 1 guy, who was ranking piracy missions in his FDL, but menaced this noob to chase it around the universe and ruin his game if he didn't bringed him what he wanted. the poor dude wasn't very sucesfull as most of the traders he managed to interdict were NPC's that would run and summon the police in 3 sec. so i told him that i would hand him 320 (they were still worth something back then) tons of rare goods if he had the amability to show me his boss. so he flew to the system and told the pirate to drop at the nav beacon to transfert the goods. there i droped with my new friend in front of him. and that day, i taught this dude a valuable lesson. today, he and i are still close friend and we keep wandering around, raising hell together. piracy done right is a realy good thing, a hard but fun job to do and it give a good meaning and depth to pvp
mansuy adrien fair play to you 👍🏻
ValeK _ agreed, getting cargo is the win people that then try to destroy the target are just being dicks
Great video dude, love the avatar too, I think you summed up the main reason for combat logging. The 'griefers' on reddit probably don't like it as they were trying to find a way to push fdev, but I think they are mainly ignored by the developers which is great. And yeah since the aggressive crowd started moderating the reddit it has become really terrible, but us average gamers will fight the good fight!!
Agree 100% with your stance and I'm sure most players will agree with you. Proper crime&punishment system (and bonuses for playing in open). It doesn't really matter in what way the actual implementation is done, but FD does have the proper systems and tools (security levels etc.) already in place, they just need to put it all together.
A point I'd like to bring up.
It was with the introduction of Community Goals we first saw this huge upscale in "Griefing" outside of the regions surrounding Lave. Following behind that; all these mission exploits everyone seems so keen to utilize. What trait do these two money making schemes have in common?
They confine a relatively large amount of players to a proportionally small area. Of course you're going to see this kind of misanthropic behavior, because Frontier effectively introduced target rich environments. This kind of thing has been going on since the days of Everquest, why would it stop now?
Personally, I'm okay with players being unremittent monsters, because A) you can't really do anything about it anyway (at least not without royally screwing up PvP in general) and B) it adds an amount of tension to a game otherwise devoid of it. Admittedly, when you drop into a system of interest to find a small flotilla of murderous psychopaths sharpening their knives, it can be a stressful situation, but look at it like this. That queasy sensation as the bottom drop out of your stomach; the sudden heat behind your eyeballs that makes every color stand out that much more brightly. That's adrenaline.
Therein lies the excitement.
YES! Absolutely what Vindicator Jones said...
Agree 100% with this video.
I didn't think it was possible to top Obsidian Ant's video on the subject - but Vindicator Jones just did. Awesome!!! Hope Frontier Developments are SERIOUSLY looking into this video and taking notes. Great ideas and great coverage of this subject.
Lost my Beluga to a wing of CMDRs, THAT was griefiing!
Great Video VJ! Love the guy talking for you / guy in the space suit :)
The issue could be solved, if grievers had to carry the insurance rebuy cost if they kill clean not hostile players. Just like the car insurance in real life.
Mike Schünemann that would literally end the experience of being a pirate..
no, because it would be so easy to avoid this.
but frontier is just to lazzy to implement somethingin the game that helps
CMDR StarfireIX Pirates don't kill their targets, they just steal the cargo and leave them there.
Ghost 2224 is right! What has it to do with pirating to burst ships that have no way to defend against much stronger ships.... and having not even cargo on them?!
Cmdr you hit it right on nail ! I've never combat logged myself but I do totally agree. I feel like there's several griefer's out there who get away with way too much and they publicly complain about others whom combat log.
Great video. I tried open 3 days in to playing the game and a maxed out FDL yanked and yanked in 3 seconds with corrosive ammo. Been playing Solo for almost 2 weeks, learning the game. Once I get better and can fight back, I’ll go back.
Good vid. Totally with you on this VJ. (btw Obisidian wasn't the only one who put up a video about this) :)
Great video, I in fact agree with every single point you've mentioned, well done cmdr!
Loved it. Glad you did the video. And great advice for everyone... D.B.A.D.
Since they intrudoced the Fighter Pilots, Dying has become unacceptable.
Good point. Very good point, sadly.
Frontier is not hesitant because of some moral dilemma. They just didn't set up any system to cross-check network stats and reports from players. They've been lazy about it until now.
Joshua Boguiren
Because they have a clearly stated position on it. It's against the rules. It's just that recently players have proven that nothing happens to the perpetrators.
Joshua Boguiren I dismiss it wholeheartedly. Not different than any other game. Only scumbags do it.
Robyn Highart Only Scumbags gank, so fairs fair.
Performance UAV
Except one group of scumbags are also cheaters. Fair's not fair.
Robyn Highart is a trader who's tired of being ganked for no reason a scumbag? Own his own? No. Fine, cheating makes him a scumbag. But he is a scumbag BECAUSE he is cheating, not because he's intrinsically a scumbag. (maybe he is, i dont fucking care, you understand the point I'm trying to convey).
Great presentation - very well thought out and presented! :)
Jesus VJ have hit the nail on the head thank you so much!
I was once trying to build my rank up with Empire. I am not in alliance with any power. I have an ASP explorer (Unarmed). If I am armed I do not engage other Cmdrs! I met a Cmdr in a Python (which I am trying to get). I complimented them on ship, asked if they wanted to wing up. Went our separate ways. Next thing I know, I am being interdicted by same Cmdr. I submit, and immediately they are firing on me. I escape by jumping to a system they can't reach. I went back to complete my mission. Player still there, attacks me again. This time my game crashes.. but I would have escaped them again! This player was just an asshole trying to destroy a much weaker defenceless ship. I still play in open play, and I don't combat log.. On this occasion my game crashed. But you are right, some do just quit playing in open.
Lengthy Emperor even if open is dangerous, i still play it because it give meaning to my actions. i was ganked more than 10 times i the last year, sometimes with overmingly low odds of survival, yet i alway escaped. like in EVE, the fact that an ashole can be around every corner renforce the emotion around doing risky things and you get to play in a bigger universe. but the Amount of straight op psychos runing around ruining people days is not good for the game.
I don't think I could agree with your assessment more - absolutely spot on in all aspects
I think one of the reasons ppl combat log is because of ganking. Maybe we should have a feature where you accept or decline a player interdiction, but only if you are not wanted.
The one thing about pvp is the types of players that want to do it but the second they are losing they leave but when you are back in super-cruise without warning that same player would interdict you and destroy you in a better ship without any warnings.
A good example would be you 1v1 him and he is using the ASP explorer and you are using your imperial clipper/federal drop-ship but when he comes back he is in a wing and he is using a anaconda and his other friend is in a federal corvette.
If im minding my business in my diamond back exploring trading and i get ganked by some over engineered dip shit after hes scanned my vessel and the results returned that o have no weapons or shields YOU DAMN RIGHT IM
GOING TO COMBAT LOG screw him why should i be the victim
I think the most important thing here, as VJ points out, is that if there is no game mechanic counter to the murder/mayhem crowd, and players who *feel* like they are being griefed are going to be censured in some way for logging ... then Open is going to be a desert.
Keep in mind, a video game is for fun. If it isn't fun, players will just stop doing it. I personally play in Open, even when live streaming, but I've also never had to deal with someone one-shotting me every time I come out of space dock after a rebuy, either. If I had to deal with that -- well, that's no fun, and I'd be playing closed or playing something else for the rest of the night.
In an MMO, the *players* are the content. Emergent gameplay is the Big Thing for MMOs, and you only get that with lots of players playing together.
If the murder/mayhem crowd drive everyone into closed games instead of Open, then the only thing going on in Open will be the murder/ mayhem crowd. I can't see how that would be a great direction for the game to take.
Excellent video, VJ. Well reasoned, well spoken. The animation was fun, too.
Thanks mate. At least some people get the point I am trying to make.
I agree for the most part, but one thing to keep in mind is that escaping only really takes 15 seconds if you're not well versed in High Waking. Chances are greater than not you're going to jump more than 20ly at a time, which is more than far enough for most PvP equipped ships to try and follow your wake. The root of the problem is that playing in Open has no benefits to just playing PG/Solo. Other than saying that you trade in Open, there's no real reason to do so. There's no reason to lose jump range and space to put decent shielding on your trading vessel.
Players Combat Logging after a negative player interaction do have the option to play in PG and not have to worry about task killing the game as fast as possible. My argument is that if you're going to Combat Log after being Interdicted, you need to play PG/Solo because you are exploiting the game to avoid loss.
Certain cmdrs/groups have also set the stage to "dying instantly" because of their ship having 80mj of shielding and 200 hull or whatever. There are also groups dedicated to telling people to not play in open and if they do, to Combat Log. Other groups feel that since Frontier doesn't take action against Combat Logging, that it is therefor endorsed by a lack of action.
Interesting and good video, but I do disagree to a degree. I feel Open should be allowed to be the wild west it is due to this mostly resembling real life. There are villains out to get you, as well as the police fighting for you. For a simulation such as ED, I wouldn't want a sterile environment to play in.
I've "combat logged" once when my computer decided to reboot for an update. let the dude kill me cause of Windows bs
yep couldn't agree more, nice vid. I've not had to combat log yet, but then I've never been to an area that has these evil pilots populate. We do need better punishment for the pilots that pray on new players. love the avatar presentation, keep up the good work.
More great content Jones. balanced and we'll thought out. It's this kind of approach and thinking that will move the game to a stronger place rather than CMDRs wasting time hanging shit on each other.
Great video! Keep up the amazing work.
Thanks for the video Vindicator. I am a new player and have been playing for a few month's. I acually had to look up what combat logging was haha. Never done it. I just play if i win i win if i dont oh well. I think its been part of my learning curve. Cheers from cmdr inksmith1 on xbox one console.
Well put sir. I really hope the Vindicated takes off when the new update lands. Especially on xbox!
Random daily attacks from big ships against my sidewinder is what has kept me from open . Now ive been in a PG, I'm happy playing the game still 8 months later. so I felt drove out.
Some good point VJ. We all suffer due to CL and griefers. I guess bullies will be bullies though. I wish FD would introduce a better crime and punishment system, PVP only rewards and bounty hunting only rewards.
Good video. I like the format. Lots of sense made. Well done!
Very nice. I think you qualified the essence of the issue, expressed an actual balanced (but real) opinion, and have re-iterated some ideas on what can be done to fix this (aside from not being a dick). Eve (whether you like its model or not), took a long time to get to the point they are at now. I am sure Frontier is planning something to help make PVP (and other aspects of the game) more workable/rewarding, and people will have to be a bit patient. They have an awful lot on their plate. That said, make exploration worth doing godammit!
And to quote Worthabuy, bring back the #!%$n Thargoids already!
I tried open for a bit, had just bought the game and left my starting station about 30 second into supercruise got interdicted by someone in a wing with 2 condas. Didn't have cargo or bounty or anything got killed in 2 seconds with no warning. Let's just say haven't played open since
Thanks for another great video! keep it up!
you need to post more man! I miss your stuffs
Love your video format, pretty cool.
Took me a while to figure out what combat logging even was. Maybe I'm just OLD but I had a mental picture of keeping a LOG of ships/cmdr's met in combat and the results of the meeting. I actually considered doing this. Until I realized that something akin to 99.998% of the opponents I might face would be NPC unless I specifically set out to find live opponents. Too much work for too little gain.
I've gotten into more than a few scrapes where I needed to NOPE out before it ended. But it never occurred to me to just hit the kill switch on my PC to log out quickly. Been more times than I prefer to admit to where I should have NOPE'd out but I just wanted to see if I could kill ONE of them.
The way I see it is if you're beating them badly enough to make them cut and run by whatever means. You WON. Perhaps they will remember you and the butt kicking you handed them and afford you a wide path in future. Maybe you can catch them trash talking later on and remind them of why they had to log off in the middle of a fight.
Awesome video, great work Jones.
I must admit ive combat logge in solo some times, and one time when i was interdicted and assaulted with No reason at all (As i held No value in cargo, bounty, notoriety and have No rank in federation or empire). Im not proud of it, but im not ashamed of it either. I dont want to buy back my 20 million exploration anaconda because some bored pvp'er in an FDL can bring down my 1750 effective hitpoints in a few hot seconds. Im not going to play Solo because i enjoy bantering with commanders, and its joyous to meet commanders 2k lightyears away from the bubble. I understand an interdiction when i have big bounties or 500 tonnes of valuable cargo, and i dont mind dumping some into space to keep going to where im supposed to be, piracy is good, but i dont understand ganking.
They should add system of with ranks
1 kill
Your notoriety is now -5 up to -25 and locks you from going up to a normal notoriety rank and people who have a positive notoriety of+1 up +25
Won’t become wanted.
Each positive rank will give you bonus stats buff for each level of positive notoriety you gain.
Only against other players who are in the negative numbers..
It will give you + 8% damage bonus per level up to 200% and a solid 3% damage resistance up to 75%..
Plasma accelerator will not go do more damage or ignore this bonus resistance.
You also gain +2% health on shield and armor per level of positive notoriety...
Same thing happen when you are in negative numbers With débuff instead being buff.
Having -5 will lock you to this notoriety level for a week and if you kill another player who isn’t wanted during the 1 week, you also double the time and resets your week of penalty to a total of 2.
And now you have - 10 in bad notoriety..
And the debuffs will be -80% damage penalty the limit of damage penalty is limited to 80% damage penalty..
In if you are with other people in the same instance who have negative notoriety « being in a wing doesn’t change » you and the other players with negative numbers, will now receive +50% incoming damage per player who have negative numbers.
And those debuffs only and buff form this system will only benefit or penalize the players and will not impact PVE combat.
Gaining a positive 10 positive notoriety will take you as much time as it takes to get a élite rank.
If you kill someone who are not wanted, your PVP buffs will get suspended for a week and if you kill someone else after or during your suspended time.. you lose 7 ranks.
Good video. I was interested to hear your comments on Eve-Online. If I may describe Eve for those who haven't tried it? If you attack anyone/anything in High/Medium/Low security space in Eve then the police will turn up and turn you to scrap. You may have time to kill the target or not but you know you are going to lose your ship. Eve has no Solo mode. If you want to attack other ships without any consequences then you move to the greater parts of the Eve universe that are ''Null-sec''. Elite Dangerous is crying out for some system like this. Safer (but not totally safe) space in the bubble (which itself could have differing degrees of security). The rest of the galaxy would be lawless. And yes, a bad reputation should stick, even to the point of preventing access to the bubble. Critics of Eve point to the number of players who never set foot outside of safe-space but that is the players choice. Many say that joining a big alliance in Null-sec is far safer because you are protected by your colleagues. I would vouch for this as I've done both over a period of 14 years playing. And if you're wondering why I have moved over to Elite, it's because I'm far too bloody old to handle the keyboard and mouse histrionics that Eve requires. Thanks for listening.
Nothing more to say about it from my point. You pretty much nailed it.
simple way to explain it is
credit grind is so grindy that a lot of players play for weeks even months to finally be able to afford that ship they want and it maybe they are out of credits....and then boom you get interdicted and attacked by someone and if you lose you are back in a sidewinder as if you just bought the game...I think the fact that players can get bank rupted and lose EVERYTHING is a reason ppl combat log. In games like GTA5 if you die w.e. you have your apartment still your cars etc. In elite...if you fly and die...you can end up back in a sidewinder even if you have 1000 hours of playtime as if you had 0 hours.
if you 1000 hours and fly with no rebuy thennn its actualy on you.
They should just add a module that is essentially calling the cops... If you get attacked without a bounty or attacked with cargo under x amount of credits you can activate this module and the System security shows up as back up. (The higher the grade, the better the ships that come to help you)
BlackIce 12 nice idea. you know, before ships had a built in distress beacon which would alow security ships to drop on your location 1/4 of the normal time if you were atacked (and not doing nothing or atacking). but they removed it for no reason.
I like how you're against people role-playing as a crazy murderer in the GAME
I have no problem with anyone role-playing as a crazy murderer.. as long as there are consequences for it lol
A fair and balanced point of view, but you are appealing to maturity. That is sorely lacking in the ED community. ED Open needs a major redesign in order to mitigate the effects of what people will do when they have no bounds. I am not talking about a crime and punishment only, but also about the all-seeing sensors, open radar markers, and general low count of NPC traffic. The game is seriously skewed to make conflict easy, but that makes abuse easy.
Jose A. Ramos and durring this time, all the changes to weapon to make non enginieers ships perform whorse make PVE harder. now when i get i to combat zones 15 enemy ships turn on me, before it was 1or 2 max but now frontier realy want everyone to fly modded corvettes in open
I still maintain that any CMDR proven to have combat logged should have Frontier forcibly and permanently apply a poo-brown paintjob to all of their ships.. they would forever be stuck flying a space turd and everyone would know exactly what they did to "earn" the combat log paintjob :p
I know this is an old video, and I'll likely drop my idea elsewhere.
But why not incorporate a system like Runescape's wilderness?
Kinda...
Starting areas: No one can fight
slightly further away from start, ranks close to your rank can fight
and so on and so on, going further and further out.
OR less cost to death when not wanted in these zones
or...what about going a bit further and use a formula of Dist. from starter zone + Dist. from surrounding systems?
Essentially, it would be a spider-web of highways, where the threads are routes of small jumps and the empty space of the web are the patches of space without close connections. (And naturally we do see a spider web getting less densely packed with thread as it get's built outwards)
So noobs would be fine, they would be warned to stay on the strings once they get bigger jump range. Vets who haul cargo would do big jumps across to the next safe thread, and could invoke community protection or escort to cross the 'gank lands'.
I know it seems complicated. But essentially it would create a proper pirate experience that could interact more realistically with the other player types, where co-ordination / knowledge / tracking / planning / evasion would be more invoked and more in depth.
I think a system like this would allow gankers to be gankers. Destigmatizing them into 'marauders' or 'hunters' The community could on the one hand organize escorts for traders for traversing down some of the darker, outer threads. Where it would be more fair, more exciting and more rewarding if you make it through. And on the other, aggressive players could collaborate together to form hunting parties, blockading, ambushing or stalking the back alleys and key crossings.
Get the hauler / explorer through! and see if you can have a good fight in the process.
TLDR: Further away from center, and further away from tightly packed systems = how risky player interactions are. An ED - Wilderness.
The wanted/bounty system should be updated so that If you kill a commander(person, not an AI) for no good reason(if you are being a griefer) you should have an extra permanent bounty that declares you in big red letters to anyone who see's you "COMMANDER KILLER/GRIEFER" or something to that nature. It should last until you die or wait a long time(or do some good deed or something-perhaps complete multiple refugee aid missions or stuff like that). I don't really know what to do about combat loggers, but this should at least make it extremely unpopular to be a griefer(and socially hated as well as easily recognizable)
What do you think of this?
Have a players ship stay active in space for 60 sec after logging, and create an escape vector amplifier module (or whatever you want to call it) that will increase an escape vectors diameter to assist in countering interdictors with its effectiveness measured against the class and rank of the agressors interdiction module by its own class and rank. Meet half way!
Junksick true dude, i realy wonder why they made interdictions impossible to fight off
Or just submit to Interdiction and high wake tbh.
I never combat logged, even when I got caught for free twice during a CG.
Just two psychos, not even a little RP message to create some ambiance.
I added them to friends after the wreckage but one got rude to me and said "Go to solo".
The other deleted me without responding.
I don't want to argue on this way to play Elite, actually I think we need interstellar criminals I just think Fdev really need to work on the judiciary aspect of the game.
Until then I stopped flying an expensive ship, and I learned for the second time to enjoy little ships, fast, nimble, and damn deadly with PAs :D
I like you thought. But I'm not coming over to open what so ever. I tried it once . Got interdicted by a greifer, ACowforAllSeasons, who blew up my brand-new Krait instantly. I lost my new ship, 6 hours of exploration data, and a ton of money that I could not replace. It's not worth going open. Especially since they can keep greifing without any consequences what so ever.
Pointless griefing pushed me into Solo because I don't want to get game-raped for no reason and with no consequence. I would love to PvP ocassionally, and I don't mind being pirated or intercepted because I am of an opposing faction or whatnot. But being ganked with no interaction or chance to interact, surrender and/or really fight is only frustrating. As I don't want to combat log away from a griefer or supposed griefer (I might judge some attacks wrongly) when that happens, I now play solo all the time ... which is sad.
Thank you for the video.
Until there are consequences for indiscriminate killing, I consider Open Play to be a free for all death match.
Unfortunately, that's exactly how it seems. Amazes me how people can get offended by simply suggesting that they dont act like mass murderers and instead join in organized PVP fights, and PVP all day long!
These few so-called PVPers are not interested in actual PVP. Player versus Player would mean they get into a fight. As in, with an opponents. A fleeing trqader/explorer isn't an opponent - it's an innocent bystander who gets into the crosshairs of a psycho. The afore-mentioned PVPers do not want to fight - they shy away from actual fights.
Wont Tell ... exactly my thoughts. To me, pvp was always about a fair fight, testing each others skills.
Hell, I stopped playing MMOs back then with warhammer online - before anyone shouts carebear..... I do love a good fight vs. a human player!
So HOW is an engineered ship vs. an unengineered ship considered a 'good' fight?
Somebody please enlighten me....?
... seriously, to me, it's nothing but showing off: Showing off that a lot of the wannabe-PVPers have very small sized penises. Just my 2 cent.... :)
Steve Nme Yeah, that's exactly why it isn't about a fight for the typical ganker/griefer. It's about being a nuisance to someone els, not about being competitive, not about comparing skill levels or learning from someone who is better than you. It's kinda sad because they miss out on what makes a PVP environment truly thrilling and fun.
ive had a rather fun(sarcasm intended) experience during a CG.
A group of 4, 3 in FDL and 1 in an anaconda, i was in a little cobra mk3 they interdict me and only the interdicter and 2 of the other 3 drop the 4th staying in Super-cruise i eventually manage to jump because i didnt really and still dont like the idea of being forced to high wake out esp 3ls away from a base to land at, so of-course the 4th guy waiting in super-cruise takes me back to normal space and again scenario repeats only this time of-course i die because i was already damaged and barely made it out the first time , had no cargo, was a mostly harmless ranked pilot, wasn't wanted nada didnt want to bother with powerplay so that wasnt a thing either. Only thing ever said was during the first interdiction "happy ganksgiving" and the firing started. i come across the same group only a couple weeks later ( i was playing 16hour days at that time so heh) while in my fully kitted out python and in a wing and of-course they immediately log from game while in SC no drop out just boom gone because of-course they wont actually risk a real fight with any ship that might stand a snowballs chance in hell of surviving more then 1 second if they turn to fight. what did they get out of it a measly 6k bounty on their heads split between all 4 of them so 1.5k for a cheap laugh nothing but a bunch of cowards, people like that are utter shit and just toxify and ruin the gaming experience for others.
on the other-hand i had a interdiction from a guy that same week that actually stood and fought me 1 on 1 with similar ships him in a DBS while im in my cobra mk3 so of-course i don't bother to try running its a fair fight, and when he had the balls to chase me a few hours later when im grouped up with my friends now THAT was a real PvP'r so hats off to ArmaDolphins my first and still only encountered REAL pvp'r in elite dangerous after over 700hours of my game time spent in open play and to clarify i get the first scenario on a nearly hourly basis if im anywhere near player inhabited regions or god help me actually in one of the highly player populated systems in open like CG systems those are utter hell if your not setup for combat and in a group.
We talk about populating "Open" but FD is not helping. Here's what I mean.
If FD were to put in a "waiting room" for commanders who want to play with others in open that sure would help.
They could put it on the same menu as open, solo, group page. Just add the waiting room to the list.
Here commanders who want to have some support while playing can get it. You can even break up the waiting room in to combat, trading, etc.
If you don't want to go it alone, you can pick up a commander who is obviously playing in the same time period you want to play.
Does anyone think this could be a good idea to help populate open with a much richer and rewarding " open" for all?
I did a bunch of logging out during combat recently... in solo play. Because I play in VR, and I was having problems with the HMD going black. Kind of hard to continue playing when you can't see anything.
Beyond that, though, I hate non-consensual PVP in any game. Which is why I play solo exclusively, I have no interest in being someone's target while I'm trying to enjoy myself mining or making trade runs.
why can't they just put a 30 second or minute timer before you're allowed to press the "safe and exit" option?
Then people would demand a 45 second timer.. lol.. 15 Seconds is more than enough time for a fully engineered FDL to rip apart a trade Anaconda
yes but not a lower ranked player that migth not do as much damage as
other ships, I'm not disputing the 15 seconds isn't more than enough I'm
just questioning why they can't put other counter measures that might
get people out of combat logging, because 15 seconds in some cases isn't
enough time for a player to eliminate its target before the target
combat logs.
Finally a smart elite player thats taking action
It is a dilemma of Frontier, if they would take serious action on one side or the other. They would have a huge effect on the other side and potentially Frontier could loose some a portion players they are not ready to loose. CL or gankers* is real, but before Frontier will take some serious measures with some huge effects, I am happy with the pain both sides are providing.
* gankers is a reflex word from many players who got killed. Practically all PvP players are gankers, as there is a minimal chance that you find an opponent in a same ship (with equipment) to play fair. It is always about the advantage to have to make the kill. And btw philosophical, are not all PvE players in a CZ also gankers, as the poor NPC have no chance?
How I define gankers are those whos only concern is killing less defendable, innocent targets. Pirates are not gankers. people in powerplay are not innocents, people with bounties are fair game.. But I get where your coming from.. I wish either problem didnt exist.
i think the needed action is to clamp down on both sides of the trench.
the game does need to prevent logging as much as possible, iether make it so your ship stays around for 10sec after losing connection, or put a penalty in place such as if you suddenly lose connection you are 2 jumps furthur back, 5 jumps if done in combat. or losing money of something.
HOWEVER, there also needs to be severe consequencesfor mindless criminals. maybe something like a wanted status aswell as a bounty, have the authorities activley hunt you nomater where you go for a set time after commiting a crime, e.g. a ligit pirate will get hunted for 10min unless they can ecape and avoid going into contolled stations untill they lose the heat. but then a pirate that decides to murder the person that submitted and freely gave them what they wanted will be hunted by the authorities for 30min unless they can escape.
they could maybe implement something that keeps a short record of what bounty you have, what items you have and the last so many people ytou interacted with so that it is easier to determin a legit pirate from a murderer or someone trying to get revenge, hell you could even make reveng killing get you wanted but only for 5min.
i realy think that the current way bounties work where you are wanted on a system by system basis needs changing to have authorities follow you across multipe systems for a set time based on the severity of the crime unless you are able to lose them , think of it like an intergalactic version of the gta police but less dumb.
tldr i really think we need to crack down of both sides.
is1nameleft
ValeK _ .i actually like the idea. it is a good point to have bounties, at least player owned ones, spread across multiple neiboring systems. right now it is easyer to be a ganker floating in a system where they are wanted ans eagles interdic them, weras just carrying 3 tons of enginieers cargo get you elites anacondas, corvettes and assaults ships chassing you all the friking time, and in every system.
When I pvp (and I do it in a my Suicidal Idiot, a "Bald Eagle"), I fight until they are near 1 shot for me to kill, say good game, and then jump out. The only times I will not is when my ship is too low that it would be risky to turn my back, when fighting multiple opponents, or if they are attempting to win the Darwin Awards (I've tried to teach noobs in sideys about stuff, and they try to fight me, with default sideys, with their landing gear up). Hell I've had Vultures run from me, and pretty much only lost when the feds show up.
Good vid, more like this would be welcome.
I've just started transporting goods for CG's in my Corvette, never been bothered once, guess the gankers (or whatever there called) only go after easy targets, don't think they can call it pvp at this point.
CMDR Y-Fronts they always do. they dont atack corvettes cause corvettes can fight back. they atack trader ships and anacondas (since the ship was so heavly nerfed and. ow strugle at tanking damage). they are not here for a fight, they are here to kill and prey on the weak.
CMDR Y-Fronts they always do. they dont atack corvettes cause corvettes can fight back. they atack trader ships and anacondas (since the ship was so heavly nerfed and. ow strugle at tanking damage). they are not here for a fight, they are here to kill and prey on the weak.
Thank you for the video. Would you create a tutorial on how to use flight assist off/on and any other trick to do a faster turn?
you good sir have earned a sub
very well thought out video btw
5 years later and nothing changed xD
If any player flies a Sidewinder build with the specific intention to troll other players running cargo, then that player should not complain when they get trolled with a combat log.
I think the solution to the problem is erasing combat logging, it simply should not be a thing, making the ship still visible in-game for 15-20 seconds after a disconnection (like it was done in DayZ, wich had the same problem) AND imposing hard punishment for casual killing of peacefull players. The best way to do it is to have the bounty SUBTRACTED from the player balance on his death (and given to the killer), also they should be wanted in any system controlled by the power who controls the system where the crime was committed, making a pain in the ass to play in those systems. This will make them think twice before killing anyone, then care for their skin afterwards, and create a nice gameplay opportunity for bounty hunters.
Unless you have specifically sent this video to the Frontier Development team your just "Preaching to the Choir" VJ. It's solely in THEIR hands to fix this. Until then, people will just continue to be people.
CMDR Metasploit something wrong with weighing in?
Way to avoid ganking. Be faster than the ganker and high wake they won't likely follow you with a wake scanner unless you pissed them off.
Great minds think alike, especially in regards to safe zones and the reputation system. No fly zones for 'condas or engi'd ships near nubspace? As in, let them pass through, but they can't interdict/shoot people withunder x hours or rankings? idk...
I love the game.and my immersion is fast approaching 100%....but I'm poo at combat, I prefer trading, exploring and lore. I'd play open, but my 2 experiences in said mode resulted in me loosing all my hard work. I now fear Open mode. I've never combat logged, and until very recently had no idea such a thing existed. I've no answers to the griefer/log argument, and until the matter is resolved by better minds than mine, I'll stay in Mobious and solo.
Pirates and economics:
Cost of Pirate ship: 10million+
Fuel: 5k
General wear and tear cost: 5k
Ammo: 4k
Damage from combat: 15k
Interdiction fine: 400.
Cargo Booty from destroying a ship: 8 bio waste Total worth on black market 200creds.
This is called "Sound economics" in the pirate world, and fully justifies their role play style.
*facepalm*
Yes, people being dicks is exactly why I no longer fly open unless I'm in the mood for a fight. Because there is always that one dick (or a wing of them) that kill people. Moreover they are cowards because they will attack you only if they have a bigger ship(s). It's not a thrill of anything, there is no challenge involved. As such, I don't even care anymore because I know that I will not get interdicted by pirates or people looking for a challenge. It will always be a dick, so I no longer wait for anything and open fire without asking and I view every other commander as a potential threat. This is the end result for me, which sucks big time and I really no longer enjoy open play. Instead of meeting new people, most of the time I rather keep to myself.
Only time I've combat logged was when I got interdicted by a player Python just after I bought my first Anaconda and was flying to another station for outfitting. I had enough money to rebuy it once or outfit it a little. I messaged the CMDR and said I had no cargo or bounty on me and asked him not to attack me. He didn't respond and opened fire on me anyway. I felt like a bit of a dick for doing it but I also thought he was a dick for attacking me for no reason after I had told him I had nothing on me.
Great intro/disclaimer and well phrased arguments. I clicked Like already, funnily, right before you said "You're not gonna like this." - I don't think I'll regret that Like-click ;)
We would need two universes to implement pristine rings in Anarchy systems in order to encourage playing in Open via that method.
The reputation system you outline with psychopath murderers being denied certain services in medium/high security systems strikes me as a good idea. Legitimate pirates won't blow anyone out of the sky (unless that darn cargo hatch is just impossible to hit without wearing down the ships hull first)
if someone kills a not hostile and not wanted player just make the killer pay the insurance
I'm gonna make a guess. The player group you're talking about combat logging is 13th legion.
When i was brand new i was in a stock explorer and got killed by what i think was an engineered corvette, since then i combat log every time im interdicted. If theyre gonna ruin my experience ill ruin theirs
honestly i logging only when after a long journey exploration and someone just want to kill me... is kinda piss me off that i took weeks out in the black and just to repay my ship... sometimes i forgot to play solo...
Just display a explosion when somebody combat logs. In one instance the player logs out, in other instances the ship self destructs, problem solved. but what do I know, I only really play in solo anyways.
Yes, one year later and loads of major updates but this problem has not been addresses enough. Still too many dicks in FDL's. The founders system is rift. I believe 'Open' would be quite busy and very entertaining if the ganker issue was solved.
I am curious as to the group you where describing in this video, I know most groups and cant think of many that PVP and log during a loss...
I really cant name them, as this was a while ago, and the players who did it more than the others have now left. It would be unfair to that group if I named them.
Most PVP groups know each other and are quite confused as to what group you describe though, if they log they aren't a PVP group.
If it helps PM me the name.
Josh Chamberlain chasing after drama bounties?
Joshua Boguiren What makes you say that.
Nothing
me and 2 other friends with fully combat rigged annies patrol around noob area's looking for griefers that shoot down noobs for no reason, as that ruined their concept of the game, but when three of some of the biggest ships jump in outta nowhere s=jump in and save you, suddenly you realise hey there are nice commanders out there and they keep playing.
I have an idea: allow NPCs to combat log - then at least it will be less annoying for the 'griefers': as it will be become 'part of the game' that they're used-to. ;)
Very well said.
Ngl I've logged a couple of times when I was carrying like 300 tonnes of void opals because I got jumped by a squad of 4
I have never combat logged but I cannot condemn those that do. The environment in open is very hostile in some systems and new or mid-level players are relentlessly destroyed. Perhaps as a start FDev could do a training video on how to successfully high-wake vs multiple griefers which is doable.
Frontier has done a shit job about incentivising not combat logging. Griefers get barely any bounty so theres no reason for "good" players to hunt down griefers. There should be some sort of special bounty to incentivise people to die to griefers. If you can get a fat cash stack from taking out a griefer, youll die knowing you made that griefer's risk of death increase.
Well put.