I think another part of it is her realizing how much he loved her, too. There's a scene later in the series where Stark buys a piece of jewelry for Fern that has a symbol on it that means "eternal love", without knowing what it meant. Frieren points out the symbol is the same as the one on the ring Himmel gave her, and the flashback shows his knowing smile when he gives it to her, including going down on one knee to put it on her finger. Frieren, being who she is, didn't understand the significance of the action, but Himmel definitely did. And Frieren is slowly understanding how much he loved her.
@@wumpusratspoilers: I think that the fact that when they were under a illusion of their dreamed world which was them getting married borderline confirms that
I love the symbolism of the A plot. Frieren’s journey is to a place called Heaven, and on the way she realizes that the guy named Heaven is already with her more than she realized. Since life itself is also a long journey towards heaven, it makes the story feel especially personal.
Towards then end of the video you say "...I'm occupied by what's going on in the moment". It's perfect that you say that, because that's what Frieren herself is starting to do. She has begun to appreciate the daily happenings more and more. That's basically where we pick up the part of her journey at, which is when that type enjoyment begins to grow on her. You could almost argue the "real" A Plot is we're here to witness her emotional journey progress, and the "talking to the dead" goal will be a sub-result of the main story's emotional journey. Either angle works, it just really depends on how you want to look at it.
It's really amazing how effortlessly the show "tricks" the viewer into seeing things from Frieren's perspective. I can't even fathom how someone could write a character that is simultaneously this fantastic, larger than life wizard on par with Gandalf who is at the same time painfully down to earth and relatable. It almost makes this series hard to recommend simply because it feels like any synopsis sells it short and I have to fall back on "you just gotta watch it"
This. Whenever I try to recommend this show to someone I really struggle despite how easy and laid back of a watch it is. I start saying stuff like "oh you know so it's about like this party of heroes that killed the demon king and saved the worl...wait this sounds generic. OK, so like, it takes place AFTER that event, and it follows the daily life of this elf girl who has been emotionally stunted from her immortality and is going on a journey of emotional discovery.........JUST WATCH IT"@@MeedaYean
A counterpoint: Finding heaven may be a red herring. “Communing” with Himmel is the A plot, and is being accomplished through reliving the memories of the past and forming new bonds with a new party. This actually makes the A plot central to the story so far, but still exist in service to character and theme, making it 3rd place in the hierarchy at best, although personally I think setting is still above plot in this case. Just my thoughts anyways.
One of the more contentious issues surrounding the genre of fantasy recently is how publishers have been less keen on epics ala Lord of the Rings and moved more towards cozy fantasy (along with Romantasy) because they've proven to sell quite successful. Cozy fantasy puts conflict and plot in the back seat to focus on the characters and setting, not that "nothing" will happen but the pace is relaxed and the goal is ultimately instilling comfort in the reader. For those who would love to see the next great fantasy epic, that publishers aren't looking for it is kind of galling. I think Frieren has achieved something incredible in that it treads this mysterious line where it can be a story of the characters heartwarming moments doing chores for a tiny village to get another useless grimoire while the next chapter might be a tense battle in an dungeon with an ancient demon. You can get a taste of both that epic bigness and the cozy smallness, both are equally as important in the context of Frieren's personal journey towards Heaven while Fern and Stark's mortality means the adventure has to keep moving.
That truly is the issue with media these days. I actually hope that the next freiren season takes a good while to come to us. Not only because there's not much of the manage currently left, but also to keep the quality as high as it was. Ofc the issue with this in modern media is that great shows that take a long time to make is that it's just less profitable, which is sad as it can snub great shows before they even come out. Publishers just have no reason to take that gamble.
I discovered this kind of story telling in The Witcher 3 and one of the reasons why Frieren immediately became my favourite anime. I spent over 200 hours in The Witcher 3 just looking for and completing side quests. I avoided main storyline quests unless I need more XP boosts or to unlock the next phases of the missions. I enjoyed the side quests more because they let me become a Witcher while the main storyline is just the typical father looking for his daughter story. In fact, the moment I feel like I can't find anymore side quests I simply quit the game. I didn't finished the main storyline until the DLCs came out.
Excellent video but i disagree when you say the A plot is replaceable. I think the A plot, despite taking a back seat, was deliberately chosen since it serves as a kind of framework for the story. The fact that Frieren is trying to reach Ende to reconnect with the Hero is important because it contextualizes the decisions Frieren makes. This contextualization is crucial imo. If Frieren's A plot goal was something different, that contextualization would be missing/weaker.
Yes I believe the same. A plot is important because it is so personal to Frieren and is emotionally connected to the hero's party. It sets theme for entire show and gives foundation to all those precious moments between characters. If it was something with bigger stakes, Frieren's childish moments probably wouldn't amuse but annoy us. Even the hero's party in some flashbacks was annoyed by Frieren waking up late. Conversely if it was something less meaningful, her development wouldn't make much sense. Why would she struggle or improve if she doesn't care? There are at least 2 beautiful scenes that I can think of right now when Frieren does something different because of the hero's party and I believe that it is its connection A plot that elevates these scenes from just being a good callback to profundity.
I'm grateful to be alive in this time that you are putting out these videos analyzing Frieren. Even though I know why I love this show "for some reason", it's nice to hear your more refined take as to why. I honestly feel a bit sorry for those who downplay how important this story is to the world and resign myself to believing that it just isn't the right time in their lives where the appreciation for it's messages have an impact yet.
Great series! And you have an excellent voice well suited to the subject material. Now, I must take issue with the idea that the A-plot of Frieren is interchangeable with many others: It’s about Frieren finally being able to say to Himmel what she cluelessly omitted to say while he was alive, and now regrets not saying after he’s gone: the only place we see her cry is at his funeral. The A-plot is integral to resolving this pain and regret. People have issues like this hurting them for decades, but Frieren measures her life in units of centuries. Note that, after Himmel’s death, the “timestamps” of the episodes are in terms of years after his death. She recapitulates the 10 year journey/campaign, but takes her time to (literally and figuratively) smell the flowers, recall memories (implied in the flashbacks) as well as engage in “cleanup”, both of a coastline, a harvest, and eliminating the remaining forces of the Demon King. Two other themes are worthy of note that help us think this universe/world is very much like ours: the process of upgrading Zoltraak was not done by Frieren, but by a process as similar, and thus as familiar as, the pursuit of the development and improvement of our scientific and technological knowledge. Making our elf out to be the sole developer of all the upgrades to magic since Zoltraak was developed just isn’t imaginable given how reluctantly she gets out of bed (a character flaw you addressed in another video, and quite excellently). The other theme is closely related to the issue of Frieren, one of the Living, trying to get resolution by communicating with the spirits of the Dead, and it is the communication of the Dead to the Living: It is Mr. Whitmore, the eccentric millionaire, bankrolling the expedition to find Atlantis in the Disney film of the same name: He takes the shepherd’s book and solemnly hands it to Milo, saying (I quote from memory), “The quality of our lives is measured by the gifts we leave to our children. Atlantis is waiting….” It is Tony Stark following the clues and hints left by his father to realize that the solution to his Suit killing him is a new element. He’s gazing at a holographic model of the atom, and saying “Thanks, Dad.” It is Heiter, the “corrupt” priest, figuring out where Flamme’s residence is, leaving the clues for Frieren to follow after his death. It is Flamme, recognizing the dilemma of long life long before Frieren appreciates the problem, that leads her to planting the tree that protects her home. It’s the grimoire enchanted by Flamme to fall open to the very page that Frieren needs to read. Frieren expressed frustration with Flamme upon seeing how accurately Flamme predicted her predicament, but she IS taking Flamme Seriously. I was about to dismiss the anime based on the Three episode rule, but a fan clip on RUclips where Flamme is featured got me back to watching: The number of counterfeit grimoires of Flamme was a form of Chekov’s Gun that aroused my curiosity, so I watched episode 4 and got hooked again the moment Frieren said the tome was the real deal. Alas, life intervenes and I am behind everything: will be following… PS: my bet is that it really is Flamme’s notes, but the goal will ultimately be in vain: I cannot see the Demon King’s castle being within “hoot and holler” of the peaceful and bright realm of the dead without doing something about dynamiting the basement of the neighbors. However, I agree that the ultimate story of Frieren is the journey down memory lane that will heal Frieren, not the goal.
You're going above and beyond in analyzing the show with all of these videos. Well done. There is already a lot of depth visible on the surface but you somehow managed to unearth even more. Your style is sophisticated but also friendly and inviting, which I admire.
I'm loving this series. If you haven't, I'd highly recommend watching Grimgar of Fantasy and Ash. It has a similar structure of being character driven without an important A plot. It's how I was convinced to watch Frieren in the first place; by telling me that it's a show that values the smaller moments
Dragon Riders of Pern by Anne McCaffrey. The A-plot rarely is huge to the story, especially in the harper hall books. There are a few where it's bigger (e.g., all the wyers, the 2 flu books), but mostly the A-plot gives a setting for the characters to interact.
Honestly, every damn week I look forward to your videos, it makes me value Freieren so much more and I do value it a lot already! Thank you very very much :)
I always thought that the main plot was actualy just an excuse. Like "we need an excuse for these well built characters to travel toguether and have some development on screen, other than 'i like gathering spells lol' ".
I love this show so much, your review always make me contemplate again this masterpiece and you are top tier analyst that can condensated the themes of each episode.
Girls Last Tour, Yokohama Shopping Log, Humanity Has Declined ... exist. Good stories don't need a main plot. Also, I think where Frieren and her friends are going will matter in the long run.
Aristotle in his Poetics lays out all these elements of a story, and declares that Plot is the singular most important. Without a major plot, there can be no major denouement of that plot, and no catharsis produced in the souls of your readers. This began to break in modern times with comic books, situation comedies, and the serialized adventure story (see Trigun). Radio, Television, and Internet have further eroded Aristotle's claim. Much is said about Frieren being about the journey and not the destination, which is just saying that you do not need a plot, life itself is episodic. But even deeper, is the ground that Frieren is plowing and that has to do with religious belief. One might believe in the destination of mythological places, beings and creatures, and of course that is mythology, but the individual's belief is not myth, it is the real feeling of being on a journey of discovery together with others, family, friends, and mates, and even internet casual commenters. Flawed characters trying to do their best make a story, because that is what everyone here is doing now, in the here and now!
I think this is too stiff a definition of a story. Where the prime driving conflict is an external threat, actionable Plotting is the heart of the story. But some stories are driven by other conflicts, in this case it’s Frieren’s regrets, so naturally the resolutions will come from characters feelings and progress, not external actions. There’s a lot of interdependency and overlap in these concepts, so I can see how some would see it differently, but this is my pov anyway.
I think the reason we get caught up in what’s happening in the moment instead of looking ahead at the plot is because Frieren is learning to live in the moment and appreciate people around her. With Frieren being one of the main lenses we get to see the story through it only makes sense that it leans so heavily on what’s happening in the moment and the characters she’s with or helping.
If you enjoy the fantasy road trip structure - spice and wolf does something similar, though it doesnt tie together the themes as neatly as this story does. Theres a new season airing right now actually.
The beauty of frieren narrative is something that i also wanted to brag to my friends, but lots of them doesnt like frieren. They call it boring, the plot is non existent etc etc. Granted, its an opinion of those who watches rental girlfriend and date a live and called them master piece... still. It sadden me that no one around me understand how truly great this anime is. Thats why im glad i ran across your channel that brag about it for me.
Frieren is really unique in that it literally has no stakes, and yet is still a compelling story. That's how strong the characters, setting, and theme are. (I'd put characters #1)
I think there is a hidden A plot here - and that is the exploration of both Himmel's journey as a hero, as well as Flamme the historic human mage. While Himmel is more with Frieren at first, Flamme becomes just as important a character, and in a retroactive way we see or get inferred the conflicts they both faced in their time through the lens of Frieren's memories, often contrasted with how the world looks like long after their passing. Indeed, in episode 4, Frieren sets out to retrace Flamme's steps here as the greatest human mage knew she one day would - ostensibly to talk to Himmel, but in truth learning more about Frieren herself. And this is the true main plot of Frieren - learning to appreciate and value the transient through the lens of the immortals. But one human mage, taught on a whim, and look what a legacy she left behind. But one human warrior, encountered by happenstance by an elven mage - and look what a change he brought to this world. Small, tiny, mundane little things, yet that's what history is made up of - the culmination of myriad tiny little choices that results in novel feats, discoveries and art.
Outlaw Star. It's mostly episodic, but the main premise at the start of the series takes a backseat to adventures and misadventures, then the A-Plot gets weaved into those adventures later on. Also... the A-Plot in Frieren is the driving motivator for her actions, but the story is centered around her adventures with her new friends, which get frames in light of Frieren's memories of her prior friends. The A-Plot matters, but in a subversive way that it's the background and emotional core for the series, not the main focus. Oh, and the surviving demons and generals ARE the remnants of the Demon King.
Yo you do a really good job at analysing and teaching us/me about storytelling. So much I would like you would also do that to other story's. Like"World Trigger" just to see of you like it but more importantly what does it good and what not, plus if what I like about the stroy is really the string point of the series. (One thing I already know is thaz the first season would probably be not be so good paced as it was made in mind of making a long series like Naruto. But they too quickly getched up. And later season they chnaged it to a seasonal realses)
The A plot is actually a plot device designed to show the ongoing interaction between Frieren and Flamme, her long-dead stepmom. Flamme gives Frieren guidance when she needs it. It would be quite satisfactory if the A plot ends with another Flamme's grimoire with the single line "Happy now?"
I agree with your take bc I completely forgot that that was the A plot 😂. Before watching this if you’d have asked me I’d have said the A plot was collecting Flamme’s journals.
It’s interesting because in most shows when the characters go off and do something fun and goofy wasting time with a main plot that the world is going to end soon it makes it difficult to enjoy the goofiness knowing they should have way more important things to be doing but cause there is not urgent plot they can take thier time doing anything because they have no time limit
One way I split Story-driven and character driven is if you extract a main character out of a story would it keep going? While the world in Frieren is rich, it is clearly giving the story of the characters rather than the world. Some stories, can and do end a character's participation and the story keeps going. We default to LotR all the time, but the party literally breaks up. They go in different directions but the story is about the progress of the world. Gimli and Legolas could die next to Boromir but Aragon would still go to Rohan. Its also rarely cut and dry which end things lean on, and each have their own perks. I don't want to annoy someone if they think I imply one is better than the other.
This is an interesting video, but there are some flaws. ATLA does the same thing as Frieren, as some episodes are episodic and, in the same way, a journey. You list ATLA as an example of doing the opposite, but it does the same thing. Your central point about the 'A plot' in Frieren being replaceable is unclear. The 'A plot' is the thread that binds all the story's events together, so the notion of it being replaceable seems contradictory. The way you use the term "A plot" is a bit confusing. There is a grander purpose to a story like Frieren's Destination that is true, but this is not necessarily the "A plot". That is the overarching goal. "A plot" can exist within the context of a singular episode, it does not have to be one BIG idea. An A plot can be Phineas and Ferb building a Rollercoaster, and the "B plot" can be Perry stopping the bad guy. And the overarching goal is "to have fun every day during summer vacation". You can even apply this to a show like Pokemon. Sometimes Ash just travels and doesn't even fight a gym leader, but the overall goal is still "become a Pokemon master". However, some episodes can be Ash and the gang helping a group of Pokemon (A plot) and having the B plot(Team Rocket planning to steal the Pokemon that Ash and the gang are helping). Edit- judging by the comments I think no one even knows what is a plot or b plot. This video melted everyone's brain
Nice idea though I don't think it's that the main plot doesn't matter. It's more so that we still don't know what the main plot is and end up thinking "what if subtly a lot of the things we're seeing are actually connected to the main plot but we just don't know it yet." Sure they're heading to "heaven" but that seems far too simple. The story is setting us up for something, slowly building up tension with how calming the episode can be. Is the Demon King really dead? Is a new threat looming? Is Heaven real? Maybe it's hell? This journey is not going to do as smoothly as we think?. Like a show where the real villain makes an appearance near the end. That the vibe Frieren gives. Also we are in some ways learning of two main plots. Frieren's one, and the hero's party's that already occurred. Frieren is in many ways almost a thriller detective series in a way not really done to this level before.
if frieren series where to be focused on her adventures with the hero’s party, do you think it would better of worse? seems like her character didn’t develop as much during said adventure. do you wish to watch a spinoff of that nature?
I mean, watching this YT series months after Frieren, I already forgot their goal was to go to heaven. So, yeah, I agree the plot isn't that important.
i made some people mad by saying this anime would not necessarily need romance. that it would still work just as well if frieren isn't actually in love. that it would still work even if fern and stark don't "just date already". personally i find the fern and stark dynamic annoying and a detriment to the show, but i know i'm not normal. i find it interesting that in both of these extremely popular ships, it could be argued that it is completely one sided. is stark actually interested in fern at all? are frieren's feelings actually fundamentally different from how she feels about her other former party members? is it important to the story that those answers be yes? i do believe the story is being written that way, but i don't think it had to be.
Fair point. Slice of life is a genre in itself, and have large fan base. There is no real need for a global plot,covering daily life and mundane worries can be relatable and exciting.
"You should enjoy the little detours to the fullest. Because that's where you'll find the things more important than what you want." - Ging Freecss, Hunter x Hunter
The A plot of Frieren is her slowly but surely realizing how deeply she loved Himmel. Weirdly, Frieren is in actuality a coming of age story.
This is a really good take
And genune suprised on her part. 10 years that changed her.
I think another part of it is her realizing how much he loved her, too. There's a scene later in the series where Stark buys a piece of jewelry for Fern that has a symbol on it that means "eternal love", without knowing what it meant. Frieren points out the symbol is the same as the one on the ring Himmel gave her, and the flashback shows his knowing smile when he gives it to her, including going down on one knee to put it on her finger. Frieren, being who she is, didn't understand the significance of the action, but Himmel definitely did. And Frieren is slowly understanding how much he loved her.
@@wumpusratspoilers:
I think that the fact that when they were under a illusion of their dreamed world which was them getting married borderline confirms that
Yeah, and that 10 years is like the "months" that changed my life type of thing.
when you’re in a making videos about frieren competition and your opponent is pey the musician:
The A plot is essentially Frieren's relationship with Himmel and I think it's EXTREMELY important.
I love the symbolism of the A plot. Frieren’s journey is to a place called Heaven, and on the way she realizes that the guy named Heaven is already with her more than she realized.
Since life itself is also a long journey towards heaven, it makes the story feel especially personal.
Towards then end of the video you say "...I'm occupied by what's going on in the moment". It's perfect that you say that, because that's what Frieren herself is starting to do. She has begun to appreciate the daily happenings more and more. That's basically where we pick up the part of her journey at, which is when that type enjoyment begins to grow on her. You could almost argue the "real" A Plot is we're here to witness her emotional journey progress, and the "talking to the dead" goal will be a sub-result of the main story's emotional journey. Either angle works, it just really depends on how you want to look at it.
It's really amazing how effortlessly the show "tricks" the viewer into seeing things from Frieren's perspective. I can't even fathom how someone could write a character that is simultaneously this fantastic, larger than life wizard on par with Gandalf who is at the same time painfully down to earth and relatable. It almost makes this series hard to recommend simply because it feels like any synopsis sells it short and I have to fall back on "you just gotta watch it"
the end goal was the b plot all along
This. Whenever I try to recommend this show to someone I really struggle despite how easy and laid back of a watch it is.
I start saying stuff like "oh you know so it's about like this party of heroes that killed the demon king and saved the worl...wait this sounds generic. OK, so like, it takes place AFTER that event, and it follows the daily life of this elf girl who has been emotionally stunted from her immortality and is going on a journey of emotional discovery.........JUST WATCH IT"@@MeedaYean
Frieren's lack of emphasis on the A plot is in line with slice of life genre, which is something I think western media doesn't really venture into
would sitcoms not technically fall under slice of life?
@@jessbau3428 i was going to say there the exact same thing.
A counterpoint:
Finding heaven may be a red herring. “Communing” with Himmel is the A plot, and is being accomplished through reliving the memories of the past and forming new bonds with a new party.
This actually makes the A plot central to the story so far, but still exist in service to character and theme, making it 3rd place in the hierarchy at best, although personally I think setting is still above plot in this case.
Just my thoughts anyways.
Characters are everything. Nail the characters and the audience will be interested in anything they do.
One of the more contentious issues surrounding the genre of fantasy recently is how publishers have been less keen on epics ala Lord of the Rings and moved more towards cozy fantasy (along with Romantasy) because they've proven to sell quite successful. Cozy fantasy puts conflict and plot in the back seat to focus on the characters and setting, not that "nothing" will happen but the pace is relaxed and the goal is ultimately instilling comfort in the reader. For those who would love to see the next great fantasy epic, that publishers aren't looking for it is kind of galling.
I think Frieren has achieved something incredible in that it treads this mysterious line where it can be a story of the characters heartwarming moments doing chores for a tiny village to get another useless grimoire while the next chapter might be a tense battle in an dungeon with an ancient demon. You can get a taste of both that epic bigness and the cozy smallness, both are equally as important in the context of Frieren's personal journey towards Heaven while Fern and Stark's mortality means the adventure has to keep moving.
That truly is the issue with media these days. I actually hope that the next freiren season takes a good while to come to us. Not only because there's not much of the manage currently left, but also to keep the quality as high as it was.
Ofc the issue with this in modern media is that great shows that take a long time to make is that it's just less profitable, which is sad as it can snub great shows before they even come out. Publishers just have no reason to take that gamble.
I'd say the conflict in Frieren is her against the loss of people to time
for me frieren is an adventure and that is more than enough :D no plot or goal, just wandering around
I discovered this kind of story telling in The Witcher 3 and one of the reasons why Frieren immediately became my favourite anime. I spent over 200 hours in The Witcher 3 just looking for and completing side quests. I avoided main storyline quests unless I need more XP boosts or to unlock the next phases of the missions. I enjoyed the side quests more because they let me become a Witcher while the main storyline is just the typical father looking for his daughter story. In fact, the moment I feel like I can't find anymore side quests I simply quit the game. I didn't finished the main storyline until the DLCs came out.
Please continue to do one for each episode, you deserve so much more views and I think a whole catalog will give you the attention you deserve one day
Excellent video but i disagree when you say the A plot is replaceable. I think the A plot, despite taking a back seat, was deliberately chosen since it serves as a kind of framework for the story. The fact that Frieren is trying to reach Ende to reconnect with the Hero is important because it contextualizes the decisions Frieren makes. This contextualization is crucial imo. If Frieren's A plot goal was something different, that contextualization would be missing/weaker.
Yes I believe the same.
A plot is important because it is so personal to Frieren and is emotionally connected to the hero's party.
It sets theme for entire show and gives foundation to all those precious moments between characters.
If it was something with bigger stakes, Frieren's childish moments probably wouldn't amuse but annoy us.
Even the hero's party in some flashbacks was annoyed by Frieren waking up late.
Conversely if it was something less meaningful, her development wouldn't make much sense.
Why would she struggle or improve if she doesn't care?
There are at least 2 beautiful scenes that I can think of right now when Frieren does something different because of the hero's party
and I believe that it is its connection A plot that elevates these scenes from just being a good callback to profundity.
I'm grateful to be alive in this time that you are putting out these videos analyzing Frieren. Even though I know why I love this show "for some reason", it's nice to hear your more refined take as to why. I honestly feel a bit sorry for those who downplay how important this story is to the world and resign myself to believing that it just isn't the right time in their lives where the appreciation for it's messages have an impact yet.
Excellent point at the end of the video. 👌
thank you capturing the essence of why so many people love frieren! keep up the amazing workk!
This has been a great look at Frieren so far. I have a feeling you would like the Violet Evergarden anime series.
Great series! And you have an excellent voice well suited to the subject material.
Now, I must take issue with the idea that the A-plot of Frieren is interchangeable with many others: It’s about Frieren finally being able to say to Himmel what she cluelessly omitted to say while he was alive, and now regrets not saying after he’s gone: the only place we see her cry is at his funeral. The A-plot is integral to resolving this pain and regret. People have issues like this hurting them for decades, but Frieren measures her life in units of centuries. Note that, after Himmel’s death, the “timestamps” of the episodes are in terms of years after his death. She recapitulates the 10 year journey/campaign, but takes her time to (literally and figuratively) smell the flowers, recall memories (implied in the flashbacks) as well as engage in “cleanup”, both of a coastline, a harvest, and eliminating the remaining forces of the Demon King.
Two other themes are worthy of note that help us think this universe/world is very much like ours: the process of upgrading Zoltraak was not done by Frieren, but by a process as similar, and thus as familiar as, the pursuit of the development and improvement of our scientific and technological knowledge. Making our elf out to be the sole developer of all the upgrades to magic since Zoltraak was developed just isn’t imaginable given how reluctantly she gets out of bed (a character flaw you addressed in another video, and quite excellently).
The other theme is closely related to the issue of Frieren, one of the Living, trying to get resolution by communicating with the spirits of the Dead, and it is the communication of the Dead to the Living:
It is Mr. Whitmore, the eccentric millionaire, bankrolling the expedition to find Atlantis in the Disney film of the same name: He takes the shepherd’s book and solemnly hands it to Milo, saying (I quote from memory), “The quality of our lives is measured by the gifts we leave to our children. Atlantis is waiting….”
It is Tony Stark following the clues and hints left by his father to realize that the solution to his Suit killing him is a new element. He’s gazing at a holographic model of the atom, and saying “Thanks, Dad.”
It is Heiter, the “corrupt” priest, figuring out where Flamme’s residence is, leaving the clues for Frieren to follow after his death.
It is Flamme, recognizing the dilemma of long life long before Frieren appreciates the problem, that leads her to planting the tree that protects her home. It’s the grimoire enchanted by Flamme to fall open to the very page that Frieren needs to read. Frieren expressed frustration with Flamme upon seeing how accurately Flamme predicted her predicament, but she IS taking Flamme Seriously.
I was about to dismiss the anime based on the Three episode rule, but a fan clip on RUclips where Flamme is featured got me back to watching: The number of counterfeit grimoires of Flamme was a form of Chekov’s Gun that aroused my curiosity, so I watched episode 4 and got hooked again the moment Frieren said the tome was the real deal.
Alas, life intervenes and I am behind everything: will be following…
PS: my bet is that it really is Flamme’s notes, but the goal will ultimately be in vain: I cannot see the Demon King’s castle being within “hoot and holler” of the peaceful and bright realm of the dead without doing something about dynamiting the basement of the neighbors. However, I agree that the ultimate story of Frieren is the journey down memory lane that will heal Frieren, not the goal.
You're going above and beyond in analyzing the show with all of these videos. Well done. There is already a lot of depth visible on the surface but you somehow managed to unearth even more. Your style is sophisticated but also friendly and inviting, which I admire.
I'm loving this series.
If you haven't, I'd highly recommend watching Grimgar of Fantasy and Ash. It has a similar structure of being character driven without an important A plot.
It's how I was convinced to watch Frieren in the first place; by telling me that it's a show that values the smaller moments
Dragon Riders of Pern by Anne McCaffrey. The A-plot rarely is huge to the story, especially in the harper hall books. There are a few where it's bigger (e.g., all the wyers, the 2 flu books), but mostly the A-plot gives a setting for the characters to interact.
Wow thanks for mentioning my comment! I really wasn’t expecting that
it was insightful and well thought out! Thanks for engaging with the content, makes these videos even more fun to make
Honestly, every damn week I look forward to your videos, it makes me value Freieren so much more and I do value it a lot already! Thank you very very much :)
I always thought that the main plot was actualy just an excuse. Like "we need an excuse for these well built characters to travel toguether and have some development on screen, other than 'i like gathering spells lol' ".
Love the analysis of frieren you've been doing recently!
I love what you have made so far keep it up!! (love your view about the show and how you talk about it!)
Please do continue this wonderful series of yours.
Love your videos! I really enjoy your deep analysis of all the details in Frieren. :)
I love this show so much, your review always make me contemplate again this masterpiece and you are top tier analyst that can condensated the themes of each episode.
Man I love these series
3:00 "Completely abandoned one of the 5 elements..." but everything changed when the fire nation attacked...
Girls Last Tour, Yokohama Shopping Log, Humanity Has Declined ... exist. Good stories don't need a main plot.
Also, I think where Frieren and her friends are going will matter in the long run.
+1 for Yokohama and slice of life in general.
Aristotle in his Poetics lays out all these elements of a story, and declares that Plot is the singular most important. Without a major plot, there can be no major denouement of that plot, and no catharsis produced in the souls of your readers. This began to break in modern times with comic books, situation comedies, and the serialized adventure story (see Trigun). Radio, Television, and Internet have further eroded Aristotle's claim. Much is said about Frieren being about the journey and not the destination, which is just saying that you do not need a plot, life itself is episodic. But even deeper, is the ground that Frieren is plowing and that has to do with religious belief. One might believe in the destination of mythological places, beings and creatures, and of course that is mythology, but the individual's belief is not myth, it is the real feeling of being on a journey of discovery together with others, family, friends, and mates, and even internet casual commenters. Flawed characters trying to do their best make a story, because that is what everyone here is doing now, in the here and now!
I think this is too stiff a definition of a story. Where the prime driving conflict is an external threat, actionable Plotting is the heart of the story. But some stories are driven by other conflicts, in this case it’s Frieren’s regrets, so naturally the resolutions will come from characters feelings and progress, not external actions.
There’s a lot of interdependency and overlap in these concepts, so I can see how some would see it differently, but this is my pov anyway.
I think the reason we get caught up in what’s happening in the moment instead of looking ahead at the plot is because Frieren is learning to live in the moment and appreciate people around her. With Frieren being one of the main lenses we get to see the story through it only makes sense that it leans so heavily on what’s happening in the moment and the characters she’s with or helping.
If you enjoy the fantasy road trip structure - spice and wolf does something similar, though it doesnt tie together the themes as neatly as this story does. Theres a new season airing right now actually.
The beauty of frieren narrative is something that i also wanted to brag to my friends, but lots of them doesnt like frieren. They call it boring, the plot is non existent etc etc. Granted, its an opinion of those who watches rental girlfriend and date a live and called them master piece... still. It sadden me that no one around me understand how truly great this anime is. Thats why im glad i ran across your channel that brag about it for me.
Frieren is really unique in that it literally has no stakes, and yet is still a compelling story. That's how strong the characters, setting, and theme are. (I'd put characters #1)
Keep making these. Thank you.
Thanks for uploading, man.
You are right for the beginning but as the story goes on I think the A plot is going to ambush us in terms of its importance
I think there is a hidden A plot here - and that is the exploration of both Himmel's journey as a hero, as well as Flamme the historic human mage. While Himmel is more with Frieren at first, Flamme becomes just as important a character, and in a retroactive way we see or get inferred the conflicts they both faced in their time through the lens of Frieren's memories, often contrasted with how the world looks like long after their passing. Indeed, in episode 4, Frieren sets out to retrace Flamme's steps here as the greatest human mage knew she one day would - ostensibly to talk to Himmel, but in truth learning more about Frieren herself.
And this is the true main plot of Frieren - learning to appreciate and value the transient through the lens of the immortals. But one human mage, taught on a whim, and look what a legacy she left behind. But one human warrior, encountered by happenstance by an elven mage - and look what a change he brought to this world. Small, tiny, mundane little things, yet that's what history is made up of - the culmination of myriad tiny little choices that results in novel feats, discoveries and art.
I appreciate that the stakes of the story is the limited human lifespans
Outlaw Star. It's mostly episodic, but the main premise at the start of the series takes a backseat to adventures and misadventures, then the A-Plot gets weaved into those adventures later on.
Also... the A-Plot in Frieren is the driving motivator for her actions, but the story is centered around her adventures with her new friends, which get frames in light of Frieren's memories of her prior friends. The A-Plot matters, but in a subversive way that it's the background and emotional core for the series, not the main focus.
Oh, and the surviving demons and generals ARE the remnants of the Demon King.
Yo you do a really good job at analysing and teaching us/me about storytelling. So much I would like you would also do that to other story's. Like"World Trigger" just to see of you like it but more importantly what does it good and what not, plus if what I like about the stroy is really the string point of the series.
(One thing I already know is thaz the first season would probably be not be so good paced as it was made in mind of making a long series like Naruto. But they too quickly getched up. And later season they chnaged it to a seasonal realses)
The A plot is actually a plot device designed to show the ongoing interaction between Frieren and Flamme, her long-dead stepmom. Flamme gives Frieren guidance when she needs it. It would be quite satisfactory if the A plot ends with another Flamme's grimoire with the single line "Happy now?"
Flamme is Frieren's master
*adopted mum
I agree with your take bc I completely forgot that that was the A plot 😂. Before watching this if you’d have asked me I’d have said the A plot was collecting Flamme’s journals.
It’s interesting because in most shows when the characters go off and do something fun and goofy wasting time with a main plot that the world is going to end soon it makes it difficult to enjoy the goofiness knowing they should have way more important things to be doing but cause there is not urgent plot they can take thier time doing anything because they have no time limit
One way I split Story-driven and character driven is if you extract a main character out of a story would it keep going? While the world in Frieren is rich, it is clearly giving the story of the characters rather than the world. Some stories, can and do end a character's participation and the story keeps going. We default to LotR all the time, but the party literally breaks up. They go in different directions but the story is about the progress of the world. Gimli and Legolas could die next to Boromir but Aragon would still go to Rohan.
Its also rarely cut and dry which end things lean on, and each have their own perks. I don't want to annoy someone if they think I imply one is better than the other.
great video bro ❤
Yet. I say "yet" and it could be that the A plot is still a little hidden, but we got hints. And if not, also good 😅
This is an interesting video, but there are some flaws. ATLA does the same thing as Frieren, as some episodes are episodic and, in the same way, a journey. You list ATLA as an example of doing the opposite, but it does the same thing.
Your central point about the 'A plot' in Frieren being replaceable is unclear. The 'A plot' is the thread that binds all the story's events together, so the notion of it being replaceable seems contradictory.
The way you use the term "A plot" is a bit confusing. There is a grander purpose to a story like Frieren's Destination that is true, but this is not necessarily the "A plot". That is the overarching goal. "A plot" can exist within the context of a singular episode, it does not have to be one BIG idea. An A plot can be Phineas and Ferb building a Rollercoaster, and the "B plot" can be Perry stopping the bad guy. And the overarching goal is "to have fun every day during summer vacation". You can even apply this to a show like Pokemon. Sometimes Ash just travels and doesn't even fight a gym leader, but the overall goal is still "become a Pokemon master". However, some episodes can be Ash and the gang helping a group of Pokemon (A plot) and having the B plot(Team Rocket planning to steal the Pokemon that Ash and the gang are helping).
Edit- judging by the comments I think no one even knows what is a plot or b plot. This video melted everyone's brain
Thank you for sharing
keep going
Pretty sure the main plot of the anime/manga is Frieren's wanting to understand why that 1/100th of her life mattered so much to her.
Nice idea though I don't think it's that the main plot doesn't matter. It's more so that we still don't know what the main plot is and end up thinking "what if subtly a lot of the things we're seeing are actually connected to the main plot but we just don't know it yet." Sure they're heading to "heaven" but that seems far too simple. The story is setting us up for something, slowly building up tension with how calming the episode can be. Is the Demon King really dead? Is a new threat looming? Is Heaven real? Maybe it's hell? This journey is not going to do as smoothly as we think?. Like a show where the real villain makes an appearance near the end. That the vibe Frieren gives. Also we are in some ways learning of two main plots. Frieren's one, and the hero's party's that already occurred.
Frieren is in many ways almost a thriller detective series in a way not really done to this level before.
all side quests: the movie. it's awesome.
Does firefly count?
I think this is called a "McGuffin".
if frieren series where to be focused on her adventures with the hero’s party, do you think it would better of worse?
seems like her character didn’t develop as much during said adventure.
do you wish to watch a spinoff of that nature?
Have you watched Mushishi? A lot of the points remind me of that.
I havent, but it's on a list of shows I want to check out. I appreciate the suggestion as it makes it more likely I'll actually sit down and start it
Bro please make a video about Dungeon meshi, no one is talking about it it's so frickin good.
Lol 😂😂😂 That is a trash Show! Hahahahahhaha😅😅😅😅😅
Except when you really wanna know what kraft is all about and you read every chapter and then he never shows up
Nice
I mean, watching this YT series months after Frieren, I already forgot their goal was to go to heaven. So, yeah, I agree the plot isn't that important.
not enough people talking about the C plot imo
Interspecies reviewers
Mob Psycho, Nichijou
Great examples
May i recommends XxxHolics anime? That anime have a very sneaky A plot! And literally purged it in the end!
i made some people mad by saying this anime would not necessarily need romance. that it would still work just as well if frieren isn't actually in love. that it would still work even if fern and stark don't "just date already". personally i find the fern and stark dynamic annoying and a detriment to the show, but i know i'm not normal. i find it interesting that in both of these extremely popular ships, it could be argued that it is completely one sided. is stark actually interested in fern at all? are frieren's feelings actually fundamentally different from how she feels about her other former party members? is it important to the story that those answers be yes? i do believe the story is being written that way, but i don't think it had to be.
Are you not awate of the slice of life genre?
the anime about nothing
Fair point. Slice of life is a genre in itself, and have large fan base. There is no real need for a global plot,covering daily life and mundane worries can be relatable and exciting.
"You should enjoy the little detours to the fullest. Because that's where you'll find the things more important than what you want." - Ging Freecss, Hunter x Hunter
nice