The problem with backstory
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- Опубликовано: 24 июн 2024
- This weeks video is about exploring how Frieren does flashbacks so well. Talking about the past in a story comes with some inherent difficulties. So what differentiates a good and bad flashback?
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Music in order of appearance:
Drawing Something on the Walls - Rebecca Mardal
Wam Energy (Instrumental Version) - HATAMITSUNAMI
Sleep + Hungry - baegel
Can't Get Stirred (instrumental) - Witchitaw Slim
Sentient - Gavin Luke
#frieren #anime #pey 
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You know Frieren have good flashbacks when you are now actively waiting for the Himmel flashbacks.
And the fact that Himmel keeps on winning the popularity contest even though we only realistically saw him on episode 1, and only know him by how Frieren remembered him
I actually think your second point is part of why Himmel is so beloved. We love him *because* he is the idealized version of himself by Frieren, post-death.
It is a sad fact of reality that often memories of those closest to ones self can become idealized and immortalized over time. This message is actually conveyed in Frieren's story a bit as well during one of the early episodes when they are cleaning up the shore. Frieren briefly comes to the conclusion that Himmel didn't actually know her as well as she thought he did... Whether that is true or not is certainly up to debate. She does seem to realize at the end of the episode that she simply misunderstood what it was that he knew she'd enjoy about that sunrise. Though, in a way, he could have simply been wrong and she chooses to look back on it that way because of this idealization.
The show even has a second layer of beautiful (but tragic) storytelling because this concept of idealized/immortalized memories is precisely why "heroes" are spoken about, most often, through myth and legend. Most "heroes", even in our own history are cobbled together bits of information and are plagued with misinformation that we don't really know what is "True" and what is "myth".
Then you look at the show and it's entire premise is... literally walking in the footsteps of old "heroes" and trying to "relive" their best days. Meeting people throughout the entire show who only know the "idealized" heroes of her party while Frieren knows the cold reality that they were just typical people who did a heroic thing. That's why for me, the fact he made the statues for Frieren resounded so beautifully... As Himmel put it. "Because we're not fairy tales". The sad truth is they are for everyone. Everyone except Frieren.
You know Frieren has good flashbacks when Himmel could actually inspire heroism in our real life. I mean, in this age, really ?
@@undeathghost5627 And in the episode Real Hero Frieren herself even says that the real person behind a hero vanishes through time and only idealization remains...
One of the things that defines Frieren as a work for me is it really doesn't flashback to those major acts of heroism - I don't know if we'll ever see the fight with the Demon King, for instance - but rather highlights those moments that unknowingly became precious to Frieren herself. It's (almost) the entire basis for Himmel as a character, these quiet conversations that she had while travelling with him that have seeped into Frieren and have slowly redefined aspects of her character in ways she doesn't even consciously understand.
So far we've seen exactly three.
Himmel saving the town from episode 3. Which is over in a flash and is from the perspective of the herbalist when she was young.
Himmel saving the village elder's daughter from the demon, which is played more as a redemption for preventing Frieren from killing it earlier
Fighting a dungeon boss with Frieren and Eisen.
No-one of these are narratively significant in and of themselves. They're just part of the overall tapestry of his character.
It's done so well.
He may be the hero who saved the world, but what Frieren focuses on is Himmel as a person. Who he really was.
In the manga you eventually get a few of the major heroic scenes that Wirble references in episode 28.
+ it makes sense for an ancient battle mage like frieren who killed countless demons to have those kinds of memories stick out as memorable.
Recent insights from teaching children: most of the time, they don't understand the deeper meaning behind adults' words, or they simply don't care at the moment. But after some time, when they gain a new experience, they suddenly say, "Ah, you told me about this" or "This teacher taught me this part of history."
Adults are like this too; I often have such experiences myself.
Although Frieren's story seems to heavily emphasize this kind of buildup, I think the author simply has a profound understanding that 'people need time for experiences to settle and ferment.
When we are younger hearing th word "you'll know when you are adult" is annoying af. But now I'm adult myself, i can only think that my pas self is stupid af for not listening
@@lenowoo But I think that's inevitable. We need a certain amount of experience to unlock the ability in our minds to understand a particular sentence.
I just appreciate that, frequently, the flashbacks in Frieren ARE the emotional payoff, as opposed to setting it up.
After the first 5 flashabcks or so I started to reflexively get teary eyes whenever a flashback started because I had grown accustomed to how emotional they are.
Because you knew something important was happening in Frieren's head. The flashbacks make every emotion you get to see on her face so worth cherishing.
It were actually the Flamme and Serie flashbacks that grabbed me the most emotionally.
SPOILER: For example the one with Serie in episode 25 after Flammes death and her remembering Flamme as a little kid, despite saying she just trained her on a whim, never fails to make me tear up. Every time I see it. It was such a perfect background abut Series true character.
Serie sitting in a greenhouse filled with flowers, itself part of a mage school that she established, crewed by students hand-picked by her... Such a "useless" spell, creating a field of flowers, sprung from a student she took on a whim... and there it is, in full bloom all around her.
This story is filled with beautiful, well considered metaphors.
One thing I love about Frieren's flashbacks that I think you really put your finger on in this video is how layered they can be, with some of them getting revisited and recontextualized as the show goes on in a way that makes them function as set-up for things outside their immediate context. Spoilers beyond what's been covered in this video below:
The statue example works well as an illustration here too, because in a later episode the modern-day party comes across a pair of statues so old nobody knows who they're supposed to depict anymore. Some of the group recognize another elf they ran into on their travels (Kraft), but no one knows who the other person is. This calls into question the efficacy of even statues against the incredible spans of time that elves live, quietly returning to the exact same issue Himmel was trying to address with them in the first place (complicating but not detracting from the gesture). At the same time, through the power of inference, we learn more about the monk Kraft and can guess that he may have had an experience similar to Frieren. This then lends some additional weight to the forgotten heroics of Kraft's past that he mentions in passing during one of the episodes he appears in. Meanwhile, much of this is all tangential to what's happening in the actual story of the episode where the party finds the statues. True, not every flashback ties in to a layered set of throughlines like this, but there are enough of them that it makes the story feel incredibly rich.
Anyway, thanks as always for making these videos! I look forward to them every week.
The motif of the statues get revisited later in the manga as well
Yeah I really appreciated later when we get shown this pair of statues that *aren't* the heroes we know in the story for the first time. That even the person who wishes to tend to the statues has no idea who they are... only that they must have been important. It worked as a nice twist to the "formula" the show had so far and It speaks to Himmel's gesture in so many ways. 1) The idea that being immortalized in stone does not actually mean you will be remembered forever adds a layer of tragedy to Frieren's fond memories of her friends knowing they will be forgotten as she said they would, despite how hard Himmel tried to avoid it. 2) The idea that Himmels personal gesture to give her something to remember them by is strengthened by the fact that while humans will forget she will indeed be able to remember them easier herself because she directly experienced them. Heightening the personal nature of the "gift" his statues were to her and (positively) devaluing the "joke" that he was doing it for "selfish" reasons as he publicly claimed back then. 3) It sets up Frierens line of questioning for the next time she sees a statue of the hero group... doing what was discussed in this video... using flashbacks as both immediate payoff but also as setup for future moments. Because the next time Frieren sees the group statues... they are talking with an old man about how "this town will never forget the heroes because we celebrate every year". To which Frieren, somberly, interrogates the man with "Will you still be celebrating in 10 years? 100 years? what about a thousand?" Really selling that she did *realize* that Himmel's statues really will be *just for her* before the end of her life span.
Frieren without a doubt the best series that using flashback to the max potential.
I hope many writer/director in the future can use Frieren as a reference of how to use flashback and teach it in schools.
What I love the most about ATLA and Freiren is the they both are easy to folloq while not dumbing down their audience. And one of those moment are throughout these flashbacks
Because Himmel loved her, he didn't want her to be alone and forget about him when he was gone (probably more of the second, but still).
I love frieren and love hearing you talk about it. This is a great series!
new/big fan. imo effective flashbacks inform why the character acts they have through the story already, not simply justify what they're doing to move the plot forward.
Best flashback ever:
The beginning of the movie Serenity.
It's a narration of the overall history setting the grand introduction of the setting, which is actually a school history lesson for one of the main characters, beginning her introduction, but then is revealed to be a drug/technology induced dream she was having as it shows her being experimented on (and some other details) which sets up the basis for the entire plot of the movie. Her brother rescues her, introducing him as a character, but then everything freezes and is rewound by the movie's antagonist as it's revealed to be holographic security footage, and is used to set the stage for his pursuit of the protagonists while introducing is not only to his character, but also his character traits and a key move that becomes extremely relevant in the movies climax.
All before the opening credits/music
Seriously, it's a masterclass in introducing disparate elements and subversion of expectations.
This is my favorite series on RUclips thank you so much for making this I hope these keep getting traction you deserve it.
Frieren shows why tropes ended up overused and worn down all over the place.
Yeah because they’re good if done right but soooo many shows/series never take the time to setup and build off of said tropes. Studios, writers, etc are either on a time crunch, are inexperienced, or are pressured to include/exclude certain scenes which inevitably impacts the overall story.
@@CalmClamFami mean theirs a difference between a show and a manga based anime. One actually has time to do that
I really want to appreciate all the people posting positive comments and this community being just really nice and sharing their own thoughts. Thank you all of being kind!
And then you have the Acolyte with a 40-minute backstory that didn't introduce any emotional weight.
Frieren was as good as I expected it to be. Just from the concept alone I knew with the right director it would become an extreme hit. But I did not expect it to be so emotional to the point I cried so many times. And the way I see the characters is different than I do with usual characters. It feels so normal to me. So very real. A show that made me immerse into the story so hard I was so disoriented when the episode ended and my room appeared in my peripheral view, snapping me back to reality. No show has ever achieved that. At least not constantly. So by patiently waiting for this masterpiece to come out I am glad to call this an absolute best of the best shows ever. A show that wants me to be like Himmel and be as pure hearted as stark but as explorative and calm as frieren. I see a lot of them be a fantastic influence on oneself. I look up to most of them and I also try to understand their shortcomings. They are all a different unique person I can get invested in. Everyone is written so carefully I love this show so much.
I look forward to these weekly
Absolutely been loving your Frieren videos
I really love this videos amazing work
Thank you so much for another informative video to love! 🌸🥰
All I can say "WOW"
Another excellent video. I'll be sad when it eventually comes to a close.
Always excited to watch a new Frieren video from you
Book of Boba Fett used them in the exact opposite way.
To me one of the best episode that used flashback and foreshadowing amazingly was Episode 10 The battle between Frieren and Aura it is perfectly balance
I love the rhyme with your name
So good
Nice video 👍
Flashbacks work great for this story because it's how we explore the entire life and experiences of a lonely immortal, going back over the past millennium, while following them on their current journey of self reflection and personal understanding. We're exploring Frieren's memories and how she felt in the past vs how she feels in the present.
"Take a second to think of a famous story without a flashback"
Star Wars.
Specifically the original and prequel trilogies and not the sequel trilogy.
Pretty cool to see this vid on my recommended while watching How I Met Your Mother lol
Great job Pey! This is a great series.
I don't know if it can be called flashback or not, but the flashback during Frieren vs Frieren battle in EP. 27 felt very misplaced and disruptive to the flow of the battle. TBF, I don't know where or how else should it be shown either.
It's that way in the Manga, but, it's one chapter while the actual fight is the next chapter. Although in the Manga they clearly showed the imitation Frieren blocked Fern's first attack in the last page of the chapter. So it flows better in the Manga because it's two separate chapters. The fight is also a lot shorter in the Manga. The anime extended and added battles to the anime we don't actually see in the Manga. Of course, the animation studio wanted to make the battles in this arc look amazing. Especially the battles against the imitations. The battles in the Manga are very quick and not the point of the story after all.
What is the background music here called? 5:35
Sentient - Gavin Luke
@@PeyTalksAnime thank you!
Hmm... flashbacks in Frieren are presented as someones (usually Frieren's) memories and are enhanced/understood by present events... like the Stark's flashbacks about how he is a coward and that he run away when his village needed his help and then realizing that it was his brother's wish for him to survive... and the realization that his birthdays were actually celebrated by the ones that loved him...
If u like frieren and the world building i recomend u to watch mushoku tensei a master class on how to properly tell a story and make it belliavable
took me 4 videos to realize ur the atrioc musix guy
Lmaoooo let's gooo. Welcome
Wait what show uses flashbacks poorly
naruto
DS also has way too many flashbacks. And some of them are just really bad...
A vast majority of anime both old and new use flashbacks poorly. Its faster to list the ones that don't.
@@natalimoina the placement and the amount of flashbacks in the sereis isnt well executed. you cant make us feel for every demon tanjiro kills if you just show us the same kind of cutscene every time. There are well done and interesting ones, but the majority of them just fall flat.
pacing: especially season 3 was jarring, you had in the span of like 3 episodes 5 different flashbacks, some of them taking a major amount of the episode. Do you feel satisfied after hearing the love hashira`s backstory or any of the upper moons introduced there (genyas was kinda vital for the brother`s realationship but the rest were meh)?
also the lack of build up for the majority of power ups and instead the use of flashbacks to justify them is just a common shonen trope which is done mixed in ds.
(still love the series, but you can clearly see all the faults in that show)
@@KhaoticKosmosi doubt that
fire :)
No u 🔥
Yes you 🌊
A show without flashbacks? Death Note. And that was one of my biggest complains about that show.
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh cause shes FLASHing briefly BACKwards to a prior event and time in her life through memory i see
man just had an epiphany