Actually the Pyromancy Staff was pretty OP but, wasn't readily apparent because everything else is bad...If you wanted to play a Flame mage before it was better to go Sanct for the GROSSLY OP Sword
@@20storiesunder It's not really underpower it was just a Slow build due to early abilities being bad...hopefully the changes will improve the experience
I'm pumped to brainstorm new builds now that Cassia and Argenta won't end an encounter before it starts. It's allowing the community to not feel they are missing out by not using the "meta" builds.
argenta in my party was pumping out at least 3 brusts per turn that had so much additional shots per volley that I couldn't even use her ability that doubles shots (cause it far exceeded the bolters ammo capacity already) add to that the >100% crit chance and the additional crit damage increasing with every bullet fired.... yeah the only danger in the final fight was accidentally giving abelard the old yeller treatment
I’m curious to play this game but frankly since pathfinder and also through hearsay, Owl Cat games skill and leveling system is always so over convoluted and I’m not sure not I can get into it.
Probably necessary nerfs, but they say they didn't rebalance the boss fights in Acts 3 and 4 at all, which sounds like a recipe for disaster. Good luck whittling down Edge of Daybreak from 6,000+ wounds with only 100 damage per hit.
@@suriil9875 I'm still in Act 2 and Yrliet is doing maybe 200 damage on a lucky crit from Killing Edge and Argenta requires several turns of ramping up to even do 50 damage per hit. But maybe it will reach those numbers by Act 4.
@@azarisLP You need to go GrandMaster perks. Lot of shit there like 'get +1% crit damage until end of the battle each time you deal damage'' . Now imagine you have a Archmil , who has 7 firerate gun = 16 fire rate with perks + right stuff, and he can shoot like 3-5 times a round = 4*16 = 64% crit damage. And thats only one. Because there is Universality buff and others, like get extra damage conversion from Explosive skill on your auto-fire mode and not from INT....in 1 good round you stuck fast 100% crit chance and 400% crit damage. Now imagine you have a gun 20 damage a shot - and here you go 160damage a shot first round, into 320-400 2de round, into 800 3th round... I fucked up the C'tan in 2 rounds with 2 archmilitans (Sister Argenta and myself). You only need to care about friendly fire :D , cause you one shot your mates. With assassins its harder to stuck damage, cause you need lethality and vulnerability , build is much more tricky. You need an assassin just to get some distant targets down, not really to do damage. Archmilitants are your damage dealers. The psychers are more buffers and healers, UNLESS you buff them up with Cassia and self buff from Bionics, to rise Will to 200+. Here they can go dealing 500 damage a cast. Archmilitants + Soldier = smoked guys...
It's so strange hearing pyromancer was weak. I wasn't even optimizing my pyromancer and still killed the Act 5 boss before they got a turn on unfair. I thought pyromancer was so OP I'd never play it again. Firestorm and Ignite costing only 1 AP compared to all other offensive powers costing 2 and scaling heavily off of psi rating just made the game trivial. My base Psi Rating by endgame was 12, scaling up to 16+ with Pslams and Relentless Blaze. After getting the item that gives Psy Rating additional attacks on round 1, I was dropping 15+ spells before enemies had a turn.
These don't actually feel like nerfs if anything the game feels like it has a better power creep from low medium and high no longer is it low high overkill.
Ok I have a combined 700 hours in Pathfinder KM and WoTR... I tried RT at release and bounced off after barely a week. I just found the character archetypes and abilities too messy and frankly, incomprehensible. I was trying to play a ranged Operative, and I just couldn't see the point in having so many action points and abilities but attacking only ONCE a turn. I couldn't tell what was the point in the various stacking buffs/debuffs, when to consume buff/debuff stacks, or what frankly, I was supposed to do with my MC.
When you get into Act 2 you unlock the ability to make multiple attacks in one turn. Some Heroic Acts also allow you to attack multiple times per turn for the rest of combat.
I'll wait until they re-balance this balance patch. It's always best to wait a year before playing an Owlcat game, and these changes are 1000% evidence of that.
You delivered a big volume of information in a way that wasn't long or tedious to listen to. 10 minutes felt like 30 seconds. Good job. I hope you do more in the same style and format, also with the good pacing you just had. As for the patch, im excited. :3
As someone who played wh40k when I was younger, I really wanted this game to be good. While it's certainly not a bad game, I really disliked act 3, I felt like the classes (except for psyker) aren't diverse enough in their options to create really different characters in the same class, and that it felt like everyone in the party were minor supporting characters to the Cassia and Argenta show. Perhaps these changes will make the latter issue better.
They made the latter issue better. Cass and Argenta are still extremely strong characters, but gone are the mind-numbingly stupid days of winning every single fight on Unfair before any enemies even get to take a turn. Game still isn't perfect, but things are a lot more balanced now.
I didn't even know Rogue Trader had co-op! This game is definitely looking more interesting. Maybe after the 1st or 2nd DLC drops I'll give it a serious shot.
I don't think combat is fundamentally changed with this patch and is still completely exploitable. The top end numbers were brought down, but I still see a lot of changes that are undocumented and exploitable currently, like Eyes of Joyeuse providing permanent Psi Rating instead of just against daemons. I'm not seeing nerfs to Finest Hour or Bring It Down. I did see a nerf to In the Heroes Footsteps and Seize the Initiative, both of which render the talents completely useless. The Seize the Initiative nerf is probably the single most important rebalance in the entire patch, but as long as Grand Strategist always goes first, that's an adjustment that doesn't ultimately change much. Optimized builds will still be ending encounters before enemies get a turn. This is especially true for players abusing Argenta with the fix to War Hymn's momentum generation.
I love this game, but it's combat and progression symptoms are so complex! I used all your build guides for my playthrough. My next is pyromancer, so the improvement is handy. Pausing now until the dlc comes, do we know if we can start it with existing games?
I dont like nerfs in single player games normally, but man were some of the skills and talents scaling waaaay too hard. When you can practically turn 1 encounters with 2 characters (Cassia and Argenta), something needs to change. I look forward to all the item and talent changes. It might makes some more "off meta" builds viable. I like the idea of a Finish the Job Soldier/MT buffed by Bounty Hunter skills and Talents.
My only character was a piromancer, and I didn't actually use any of those powers like ever, only the officer ones. I was not good at this game's combat so these nerfs hurt my soul, even if I can use the fire abilities now. Cassia dealing about 4000 damage the first turn and then exponentially more was the only reason I got through the chaos bosses of the game. And I just played on core.
The aim of this patch seemed to be - buff the early game, nerf the late game. Exactly what was needed. I like it a lot. Also didn't realise you couldn't play co-op from the start, so adding that is a fantastic feature. Your still really powerful at end game, so I have no problems with this patch. If Owlcat wants to do more, then I would like to see more options for different paths. Dogmatic simply gets some of the most busted items in the game. The rest just fall behind. Share the love.
some of the changes are great, some suck, and some of them are comical. the whole screeching to a halt animation is hilarious - I keep hearing tyres! short distances as a group looks like some kinda demented line dancing. I also never had to deal with freezing, now it happens in every fight. ironic. some of the cutscenes are wildly over-lit. all in all it seems to take away as much as it gives so I'm really of two minds about the whole thing. all in all, I think I actually liked it pre-patch more. maybe it'll grow on me.
Just played again last night. You missed a couple major changes. Sieze the initiative no longer give you an extra turn, just buffs damage against NPCs who haven’t gone yet. I have two officers and half the time, in ch4, the battle ended during the SI turns even on daring difficulty. They also gave better options for warriors dual wielding melee weapons which look really nice. I speced into them but haven’t had a chance to do much with them yet. Other than that it was a nice recap. Thanks!
I will always remember Cassia as she should be remembered. In her prime. At her peak. She would fearlessly carry her comrades, and destroy her foes. The Cassia we knew... before 1.2. 😭
To be fair. She's needed a nerf because she was hands down THE best companion. Auto include every time no matter your party comp because of how powerful she is lol.
I haven't played before the patch got implemented because I was afraid of the game being super buggy, but Cassia is STILL the best high damage / burst damage character there is, that's is till act 3.
They nerfed 'take it down' so hard, for me, literally before the last few battles of the game. All of a sudden there was a huge difficulty spike because of it D:
Well arch militant psyker can use their powers to stack versatility in addition to weapons so it's a lot better when you need to use something like ignite for ranged attacks and it will help you stack more versatility boosting you more in melee for using your powers
Thanks for the video. It was clear and concise. And I've put in a couple hundred hours of play on 1.2 thus far. I find combat to be markedly more dynamic and interesting. Most of these 'nerfs' were balance changes that were desperately needed.
In my first playthrough I maxed turn abuse with a heavy bolter Argenta. She could shoot 70+ shots per round, kind of silly. In my second it ended up being Cassia destroying then world. Lets see what comes next, lol
I know its not considered major but the fixed a few other cheese bugs, like saving at the beginning of battle so you can reload and move your character wherever you want, additive stacking tactical knowledge, and humanities finest "agility" not working
Finally I can try making a ram spaceship. I wanted to do it since they first previewed space combat but the damage taken was just so insane that is was more suicidal than tactical. Only thing I kind of dislike is how much this patch makes psyker better compared to other origins. Feels like there's just no reason to not be a psyker, even if you're going to be a melee character, heavy gunner, or sniper, the psyker perks and abilities are just too good compared to other origins.
I just bought this game when it went on sale. All the build guides I was using are now outdated and I will probally quit playing until the new dlc is out. Maybe new and improved guides will come out then. Hate to stop because I was having too much fun.
games with heavy stories and slow, lengthy progress should be released in a finished state to begin with. Especially when the story is quite linear and isn't influenced very much by your choices. I already played the hell out of this game when it released and I have no interest in restarting just to experience these patch changes. It's sad. but I'm sure it's also true for a lot of the players out there.
so TlDR seems to be: - Pyro might be viable now - Assassin now truly ass making melee even less viable - Navigator still master of CC and mid game tank - Abelard still refuses to die (it does not complay with navy regulations) - burst fire archie still goes brrrrrrrrrrrr - officer now less busted but the Momentum gain might still make it worth it will hte K'tan still roll over and die? probably
My pascal using killing edge would typically 1 shot bosses with killing edge. Act bosses maybe not, but he took out CSM in 1 hit. It was a let down that the best strategy was pascal killing a big guy every turn and everyone else just supporting. Plus Abelard with a big sword could go around 1 hitting mooks across the map. I had him making something like 9 swings and running 30 squares with stops between. Argenta couldn't keep up with either of them.
@@ScotRotum only 1 per turn? must have miss skilled him, he has a perk that increases base damage per shot he takes and with the sniper class plus extra turns from officer his damage somehow (Idk bugs/other perks) grew exponentially every shot easily scaling from base 200ish dmg to >2000 per shot
I think hard nerfing the player character across the board is going to lead to some…unneeded frustration. Especially if they haven’t touched the actual encounter design if the game. A lot of those fights (act 3s final boss especially) seem made in such a way that the *only* way your able to beat them is by extra turn explotstion and massive stacking damage numbers. I mean, a lot of those encounters can be lost due initiative rolls alone
They killed the Officer class. The entire reason to play it was to buff another character and give them a turn. Which they removed. So what's the point of an officer now?
@@718Hokage I think what they're saying is that they rightfully nerfed the OP shit Officer did but didn't really replace it with anything. No real point bringing an officer.
Yeah they can still boost stats and give an extra turn but whats the point when you can't go first unless you take strategist which was never that great of a class
Officers are still incredible at generating Resolve and thus Momentum and their Heroic Action remains far and away the best in show. They can also still give extra turns and incredible buffs. No, they no longer readily allow you to win every fight on Unfair before the enemy even get a turn. Boo hoo. These nerfs were absolutely necessary for any sort of balance. I've put a good 200+ hours into the game since 1.2 and Unfair is markedly more enjoyable and less stupid.
Oh, too bad they didn't completely overhaul the class comcepts and combat mechanics. They can rebalance all theyveant, it'll still be more annoying than enjoyable to play.
The balance of the game's difficulty and flow of combat is not good. The way that the systems in this game are set up means that prolonged combat heavily favors the AI. If you don't simply destroy the enemy, then you're in a very bad position. Which is why it was important to make characters that could destroy your enemies in one to two turns. Without rebalancing The encounters and combat heavily nerfing the players in this way will make the pendulum swing too far in the other direction. To whereas the game was so easy because you were so strong, now it will probably be mind numbingly tedious at many points.
I think it's the exact opposite. Right now, you're likely to get at least one party member downed on round 1 in tougher encounters because you're can't get all of them buffed up before a bunch of enemies get to go, but once you survive round 1 and get everyone buffed up, the player team snowballs and wins. Tactical Knowledge stacking alone trivialises many encounters and was not touched at all.
I can't stand when Gamers have zero self-control, and then demand the game be nerfed because they min-max the most powerful build possible. So the rest of us, who like to play theme builds, have to play in a game that was designed around the minmax player...
You can play any sort of theme builds you want with no thought to min-maxing on any difficulty up to Daring, which also happens to be the minimum threshold for many achievements. If you are determined to play on Hard or Unfair, you may need to do a bit more min-maxing. Only the top two difficulty settings were 'designed around the minmax player', as you say. The only people to be truly and deeply impacted by these balance changes were the people exploiting the short-sighted class design and winning every Boss encounter on Unfair before the enemy even gets a turn. If you weren't playing that way before, your 'theme builds' should not be detrimentally affected by the patch, especially on Daring or below.
@@waldemardaninsky6015 excuse me, but I did not say that that's what happened in this game.. I said I hate when that is what happens, because some of the top Echelon of players abuse systems.. I don't even own this game.. only a fool buys an owlcat game before its had a year or two of pacthes You can pretend that that's not what happens across many games, but it absolutely does!
I get the buffs, but who are the de-buffs even for? It's not a competitive game. Players who didn't like how the extra turns mechanics could be exploited to trivialize combat could already just... not do that? Or they could just change any of the dozen difficulty settings to tune the game experience to how they preferred it. I dunno, man. Rogue Trader was already a great (if buggy) game. I imagine it still is, but it definitely didn't _need_ this re-balance. I'll wait for the DLC content.
The debuffs were for balance. Which was DESPERATELY needed given how many players just loaded up a bunch of mercenary Officers and ignored half the classes and NPCs in the game. A game doesn't have to be PVP to justify balance changes when the devs realize, "Oops! We screwed up and broke a class. Let's bring it more in line with the others." Game devs are allowed to want to fulfill their own vision of the game and release a balanced suite of classes.
I'm really not sold on this patch. I get that they probably wanted to change some of the most OP stuff, but hitting like 5 categories at a time was probably a bad move. Would have been a bit better to do one patch for extra turns, one patch for Arch Militant and one for Assassin. I think hitting all of the powerful options at once is gonna leave the game feeling really boring. Plus, people below also mentioned that they haven't rebalanced all the big lategame bosses so that's gonna suck.
Have about 200 hours logged on Unfair since 1.2. Game is, in fact, not boring. It is markedly more interesting and entertaining now that you can't just steamroll encounters and bosses with Cass and Argenta before the enemy even gets a turn. Sure, if you require the ability to win every fight before the fight starts in order to have fun, you might find the balance boring. But I might suggest a different sort of game in that case. This one is now working more or less as intended.
The big issue here is the difference between additive vs subtractive balancing. Doing what Lairian did with BG3, adding a harder difficulty and more difficulty customization? I'm all for that, it adds new features for those who want more of a challenge without screwing over those of us who were enjoying the game. What Owlet seems to be doing? Nerfing existing abilities and effectively saying if you don't like the new difficulty to start a new run on an easier difficulty? No, I cannot and will not approve of features or experiences being subtracted from a product I have bought and paid for.
The broken features and exploits were allowing people to steamroll Turn 1 wins on the Unfair setting without the enemy bosses even getting a turn. That is now less likely, though still possible in some instances. The devs decided they wanted the game to be more balanced. You don't own the game. You bought a license to play their software. Part of the ToS you agree to when playing THEIR game is that they make what changes they want and you play the game they give you. You don't have to approve of it. You do have to accept that the days of winning Unfair boss fights before the enemy gets a single turn are a thing of the past. If you weren't using those exploits to cheese your way through effortless victories on Unfair, then you probably won't even notice half of these changes.
I dunno mate, I already decided this game wasn't for me. I doubt any amount of patching is going to change my mind. Still, I encourage you to play it if you like it.
i'm so glad they de-crapped the pyromancer. calling it underperforming was the understatement of the year.
Yup I agree.
Actually the Pyromancy Staff was pretty OP but, wasn't readily apparent because everything else is bad...If you wanted to play a Flame mage before it was better to go Sanct for the GROSSLY OP Sword
I did a whole playthrough with one and it kicked ass but that was late game and melee focused.
@@20storiesunder It's not really underpower it was just a Slow build due to early abilities being bad...hopefully the changes will improve the experience
@@nathandanner4030 Indeed, and allow for usage of the abilities, like so many cool ones but they just didn't perform as well as melee ignite
I ended up dropping the game in late act 4 because the fights became so trivial, these seem like great changes!
I'm pumped to brainstorm new builds now that Cassia and Argenta won't end an encounter before it starts. It's allowing the community to not feel they are missing out by not using the "meta" builds.
Nice glad you like it!
argenta in my party was pumping out at least 3 brusts per turn that had so much additional shots per volley that I couldn't even use her ability that doubles shots (cause it far exceeded the bolters ammo capacity already)
add to that the >100% crit chance and the additional crit damage increasing with every bullet fired....
yeah the only danger in the final fight was accidentally giving abelard the old yeller treatment
I did the same act 2. And I was playing in hard.
@@BuckysKnifeFlip I couldn't agree more.
I’m curious to play this game but frankly since pathfinder and also through hearsay, Owl Cat games skill and leveling system is always so over convoluted and I’m not sure not I can get into it.
Probably necessary nerfs, but they say they didn't rebalance the boss fights in Acts 3 and 4 at all, which sounds like a recipe for disaster. Good luck whittling down Edge of Daybreak from 6,000+ wounds with only 100 damage per hit.
Arch militants still scale to 400 per hit on weapons 6 hits. With spray and pray 10 hits.
Operator assassin still deals 600-1000 per hit
@@suriil9875 I'm still in Act 2 and Yrliet is doing maybe 200 damage on a lucky crit from Killing Edge and Argenta requires several turns of ramping up to even do 50 damage per hit. But maybe it will reach those numbers by Act 4.
@@azarisLP You need to go GrandMaster perks. Lot of shit there like 'get +1% crit damage until end of the battle each time you deal damage'' . Now imagine you have a Archmil , who has 7 firerate gun = 16 fire rate with perks + right stuff, and he can shoot like 3-5 times a round = 4*16 = 64% crit damage. And thats only one. Because there is Universality buff and others, like get extra damage conversion from Explosive skill on your auto-fire mode and not from INT....in 1 good round you stuck fast 100% crit chance and 400% crit damage. Now imagine you have a gun 20 damage a shot - and here you go 160damage a shot first round, into 320-400 2de round, into 800 3th round... I fucked up the C'tan in 2 rounds with 2 archmilitans (Sister Argenta and myself). You only need to care about friendly fire :D , cause you one shot your mates.
With assassins its harder to stuck damage, cause you need lethality and vulnerability , build is much more tricky. You need an assassin just to get some distant targets down, not really to do damage. Archmilitants are your damage dealers. The psychers are more buffers and healers, UNLESS you buff them up with Cassia and self buff from Bionics, to rise Will to 200+. Here they can go dealing 500 damage a cast.
Archmilitants + Soldier = smoked guys...
It's so strange hearing pyromancer was weak. I wasn't even optimizing my pyromancer and still killed the Act 5 boss before they got a turn on unfair. I thought pyromancer was so OP I'd never play it again. Firestorm and Ignite costing only 1 AP compared to all other offensive powers costing 2 and scaling heavily off of psi rating just made the game trivial. My base Psi Rating by endgame was 12, scaling up to 16+ with Pslams and Relentless Blaze. After getting the item that gives Psy Rating additional attacks on round 1, I was dropping 15+ spells before enemies had a turn.
These don't actually feel like nerfs if anything the game feels like it has a better power creep from low medium and high no longer is it low high overkill.
Ok I have a combined 700 hours in Pathfinder KM and WoTR... I tried RT at release and bounced off after barely a week. I just found the character archetypes and abilities too messy and frankly, incomprehensible. I was trying to play a ranged Operative, and I just couldn't see the point in having so many action points and abilities but attacking only ONCE a turn. I couldn't tell what was the point in the various stacking buffs/debuffs, when to consume buff/debuff stacks, or what frankly, I was supposed to do with my MC.
When you get into Act 2 you unlock the ability to make multiple attacks in one turn. Some Heroic Acts also allow you to attack multiple times per turn for the rest of combat.
This is exactly why I don't buy games until all the content is out, all the patching is finished, and the game is on deep discount, as a bundle
Honestly not a fan of large nerfs in a single player game. Make the strong build the baseline, and bring everything else lacking up to that standard.
Give me the option to be a non santioned Psyker from level one.
This game needs so much help. I preordered but no point in playing till all the DLC is out, it needs that many patches lol
@!#$ing owlcat. Last time I buy anything from them before definitive edition.
I'll wait until they re-balance this balance patch. It's always best to wait a year before playing an Owlcat game, and these changes are 1000% evidence of that.
This is so true. Add to that they tend to have pretty meaningful dlc as well.
You delivered a big volume of information in a way that wasn't long or tedious to listen to. 10 minutes felt like 30 seconds. Good job. I hope you do more in the same style and format, also with the good pacing you just had.
As for the patch, im excited. :3
As someone who played wh40k when I was younger, I really wanted this game to be good. While it's certainly not a bad game, I really disliked act 3, I felt like the classes (except for psyker) aren't diverse enough in their options to create really different characters in the same class, and that it felt like everyone in the party were minor supporting characters to the Cassia and Argenta show.
Perhaps these changes will make the latter issue better.
They made the latter issue better. Cass and Argenta are still extremely strong characters, but gone are the mind-numbingly stupid days of winning every single fight on Unfair before any enemies even get to take a turn. Game still isn't perfect, but things are a lot more balanced now.
The addition of a playable organ really lets you chill like Gannondorf in your evil lair haha
I didn't even know Rogue Trader had co-op! This game is definitely looking more interesting. Maybe after the 1st or 2nd DLC drops I'll give it a serious shot.
I don't think combat is fundamentally changed with this patch and is still completely exploitable. The top end numbers were brought down, but I still see a lot of changes that are undocumented and exploitable currently, like Eyes of Joyeuse providing permanent Psi Rating instead of just against daemons. I'm not seeing nerfs to Finest Hour or Bring It Down. I did see a nerf to In the Heroes Footsteps and Seize the Initiative, both of which render the talents completely useless. The Seize the Initiative nerf is probably the single most important rebalance in the entire patch, but as long as Grand Strategist always goes first, that's an adjustment that doesn't ultimately change much. Optimized builds will still be ending encounters before enemies get a turn. This is especially true for players abusing Argenta with the fix to War Hymn's momentum generation.
Yes, Pyromancer is actually playable!
I love this game, but it's combat and progression symptoms are so complex! I used all your build guides for my playthrough. My next is pyromancer, so the improvement is handy. Pausing now until the dlc comes, do we know if we can start it with existing games?
I dont like nerfs in single player games normally, but man were some of the skills and talents scaling waaaay too hard. When you can practically turn 1 encounters with 2 characters (Cassia and Argenta), something needs to change.
I look forward to all the item and talent changes. It might makes some more "off meta" builds viable. I like the idea of a Finish the Job Soldier/MT buffed by Bounty Hunter skills and Talents.
They should've nerfed the stupid forest maze in Act 4. That was terrible level design
Oh yeah I CANNOT STAND that section. LOL
My only character was a piromancer, and I didn't actually use any of those powers like ever, only the officer ones. I was not good at this game's combat so these nerfs hurt my soul, even if I can use the fire abilities now. Cassia dealing about 4000 damage the first turn and then exponentially more was the only reason I got through the chaos bosses of the game. And I just played on core.
Only thing i care about, is if they fixed the unkillable necron glitch in Epitaph. Lost a 70 ish plus hour playthru because of it.
Guess i am not turning into a primarch anymore
The aim of this patch seemed to be - buff the early game, nerf the late game. Exactly what was needed. I like it a lot. Also didn't realise you couldn't play co-op from the start, so adding that is a fantastic feature. Your still really powerful at end game, so I have no problems with this patch.
If Owlcat wants to do more, then I would like to see more options for different paths. Dogmatic simply gets some of the most busted items in the game. The rest just fall behind. Share the love.
Yup I agree it'd be nice to see more accessories for other paths.
some of the changes are great, some suck, and some of them are comical. the whole screeching to a halt animation is hilarious - I keep hearing tyres! short distances as a group looks like some kinda demented line dancing. I also never had to deal with freezing, now it happens in every fight. ironic. some of the cutscenes are wildly over-lit. all in all it seems to take away as much as it gives so I'm really of two minds about the whole thing. all in all, I think I actually liked it pre-patch more. maybe it'll grow on me.
Just played again last night. You missed a couple major changes. Sieze the initiative no longer give you an extra turn, just buffs damage against NPCs who haven’t gone yet. I have two officers and half the time, in ch4, the battle ended during the SI turns even on daring difficulty.
They also gave better options for warriors dual wielding melee weapons which look really nice. I speced into them but haven’t had a chance to do much with them yet.
Other than that it was a nice recap. Thanks!
Returned to the game after 2 months just to find out that my RT sniper suck 😄
Its posible to get the last faction items ?
Supposedly the faction points are much better balanced now so yes.
Thanks for the update news!
My pleasure!
Good bye mini nuke Cassia :(
Who was Achilles Galander again, it’s been awhile since played last.
Heinrix’s boy on Dargonus I think.
I wonder how big the nerf to killing edge is. I used to do 20k dmg with assassin sniper on bosses after buffing and debuffing.
Having pyromancer be basically worthless for the first half of the game is finally fixed
I will always remember Cassia as she should be remembered. In her prime. At her peak. She would fearlessly carry her comrades, and destroy her foes. The Cassia we knew... before 1.2. 😭
To be fair. She's needed a nerf because she was hands down THE best companion. Auto include every time no matter your party comp because of how powerful she is lol.
Still probably will take her as the dialogue insights were worth it. Her and Idira definitely filled the advisor roles in the retinue.
I haven't played before the patch got implemented because I was afraid of the game being super buggy, but Cassia is STILL the best high damage / burst damage character there is, that's is till act 3.
They nerfed 'take it down' so hard, for me, literally before the last few battles of the game. All of a sudden there was a huge difficulty spike because of it D:
Damn that's rough.
Great concise upload mate. You make great content.
Thank you!
I think this constitutes an epic update. Cheers!
How is mele Psyker now?
Well arch militant psyker can use their powers to stack versatility in addition to weapons so it's a lot better when you need to use something like ignite for ranged attacks and it will help you stack more versatility boosting you more in melee for using your powers
how bad are the bugs in this game? i see a ton of steam reviews saying they run into many bugs
They were VERY impactful at launch but now the vast majority of them have been cleared. When the new DLC drops in August you should be good to go. :)
Thanks for the video. It was clear and concise.
And I've put in a couple hundred hours of play on 1.2 thus far. I find combat to be markedly more dynamic and interesting. Most of these 'nerfs' were balance changes that were desperately needed.
In my first playthrough I maxed turn abuse with a heavy bolter Argenta. She could shoot 70+ shots per round, kind of silly. In my second it ended up being Cassia destroying then world. Lets see what comes next, lol
Probably a more balanced team. 😂
I know its not considered major but the fixed a few other cheese bugs, like saving at the beginning of battle so you can reload and move your character wherever you want, additive stacking tactical knowledge, and humanities finest "agility" not working
Did they change the witch staff? I remember it was utter garbage with incorrect weapon type and non existing weapon dmg
Finally I can try making a ram spaceship. I wanted to do it since they first previewed space combat but the damage taken was just so insane that is was more suicidal than tactical.
Only thing I kind of dislike is how much this patch makes psyker better compared to other origins. Feels like there's just no reason to not be a psyker, even if you're going to be a melee character, heavy gunner, or sniper, the psyker perks and abilities are just too good compared to other origins.
...did they fixed Pasqal's infinite Heroic Actions spam?!
Yea think I'm waiting for some dlc and I'll give it another go.
I just bought this game when it went on sale. All the build guides I was using are now outdated and I will probally quit playing until the new dlc is out. Maybe new and improved guides will come out then. Hate to stop because I was having too much fun.
@@stevenwoodward5923you don’t need a guide to play
Chess (aka regicide) when tho?
gonna wait for the dlc on august, and gonna have to re analyse the builds to see if they still work lol
Slandered, is WOTR still a much better game in your opinion?
Hard to say without seeing the new mechanics in action. Ask me after I have played the DLC.
cool
YESS AMAZING PATCH
can't wait for them to delete space battles (what a waste of time)
games with heavy stories and slow, lengthy progress should be released in a finished state to begin with. Especially when the story is quite linear and isn't influenced very much by your choices. I already played the hell out of this game when it released and I have no interest in restarting just to experience these patch changes. It's sad. but I'm sure it's also true for a lot of the players out there.
so TlDR seems to be:
- Pyro might be viable now
- Assassin now truly ass making melee even less viable
- Navigator still master of CC and mid game tank
- Abelard still refuses to die (it does not complay with navy regulations)
- burst fire archie still goes brrrrrrrrrrrr
- officer now less busted but the Momentum gain might still make it worth it
will hte K'tan still roll over and die? probably
My pascal using killing edge would typically 1 shot bosses with killing edge. Act bosses maybe not, but he took out CSM in 1 hit. It was a let down that the best strategy was pascal killing a big guy every turn and everyone else just supporting.
Plus Abelard with a big sword could go around 1 hitting mooks across the map. I had him making something like 9 swings and running 30 squares with stops between. Argenta couldn't keep up with either of them.
@@ScotRotum only 1 per turn? must have miss skilled him, he has a perk that increases base damage per shot he takes and with the sniper class plus extra turns from officer his damage somehow (Idk bugs/other perks) grew exponentially every shot easily scaling from base 200ish dmg to >2000 per shot
Rebalancing? I hear only about nerfs.
I think hard nerfing the player character across the board is going to lead to some…unneeded frustration. Especially if they haven’t touched the actual encounter design if the game. A lot of those fights (act 3s final boss especially) seem made in such a way that the *only* way your able to beat them is by extra turn explotstion and massive stacking damage numbers.
I mean, a lot of those encounters can be lost due initiative rolls alone
Starting at mid game the fights would become trivial so I see this as a positive overall
Did the fix the romance achievement? I cant see a note about it. I went through an entire romance following a guide and the achievement didnt pop.
They killed the Officer class. The entire reason to play it was to buff another character and give them a turn. Which they removed. So what's the point of an officer now?
yeah...
@@718Hokage I think what they're saying is that they rightfully nerfed the OP shit Officer did but didn't really replace it with anything. No real point bringing an officer.
Yeah they can still boost stats and give an extra turn but whats the point when you can't go first unless you take strategist which was never that great of a class
Officers are still incredible at generating Resolve and thus Momentum and their Heroic Action remains far and away the best in show. They can also still give extra turns and incredible buffs. No, they no longer readily allow you to win every fight on Unfair before the enemy even get a turn. Boo hoo. These nerfs were absolutely necessary for any sort of balance. I've put a good 200+ hours into the game since 1.2 and Unfair is markedly more enjoyable and less stupid.
Oh, too bad they didn't completely overhaul the class comcepts and combat mechanics. They can rebalance all theyveant, it'll still be more annoying than enjoyable to play.
The balance of the game's difficulty and flow of combat is not good. The way that the systems in this game are set up means that prolonged combat heavily favors the AI. If you don't simply destroy the enemy, then you're in a very bad position. Which is why it was important to make characters that could destroy your enemies in one to two turns. Without rebalancing The encounters and combat heavily nerfing the players in this way will make the pendulum swing too far in the other direction. To whereas the game was so easy because you were so strong, now it will probably be mind numbingly tedious at many points.
I think it's the exact opposite. Right now, you're likely to get at least one party member downed on round 1 in tougher encounters because you're can't get all of them buffed up before a bunch of enemies get to go, but once you survive round 1 and get everyone buffed up, the player team snowballs and wins. Tactical Knowledge stacking alone trivialises many encounters and was not touched at all.
I can't stand when Gamers have zero self-control, and then demand the game be nerfed because they min-max the most powerful build possible. So the rest of us, who like to play theme builds, have to play in a game that was designed around the minmax player...
You can play any sort of theme builds you want with no thought to min-maxing on any difficulty up to Daring, which also happens to be the minimum threshold for many achievements.
If you are determined to play on Hard or Unfair, you may need to do a bit more min-maxing. Only the top two difficulty settings were 'designed around the minmax player', as you say.
The only people to be truly and deeply impacted by these balance changes were the people exploiting the short-sighted class design and winning every Boss encounter on Unfair before the enemy even gets a turn. If you weren't playing that way before, your 'theme builds' should not be detrimentally affected by the patch, especially on Daring or below.
@@waldemardaninsky6015 excuse me, but I did not say that that's what happened in this game.. I said I hate when that is what happens, because some of the top Echelon of players abuse systems.. I don't even own this game.. only a fool buys an owlcat game before its had a year or two of pacthes
You can pretend that that's not what happens across many games, but it absolutely does!
I get the buffs, but who are the de-buffs even for? It's not a competitive game. Players who didn't like how the extra turns mechanics could be exploited to trivialize combat could already just... not do that? Or they could just change any of the dozen difficulty settings to tune the game experience to how they preferred it.
I dunno, man. Rogue Trader was already a great (if buggy) game. I imagine it still is, but it definitely didn't _need_ this re-balance. I'll wait for the DLC content.
The debuffs were for balance. Which was DESPERATELY needed given how many players just loaded up a bunch of mercenary Officers and ignored half the classes and NPCs in the game.
A game doesn't have to be PVP to justify balance changes when the devs realize, "Oops! We screwed up and broke a class. Let's bring it more in line with the others." Game devs are allowed to want to fulfill their own vision of the game and release a balanced suite of classes.
Is this for the PC only, or also for the PS5?
I am pretty sure it's also on PS5.
I'm really not sold on this patch. I get that they probably wanted to change some of the most OP stuff, but hitting like 5 categories at a time was probably a bad move. Would have been a bit better to do one patch for extra turns, one patch for Arch Militant and one for Assassin. I think hitting all of the powerful options at once is gonna leave the game feeling really boring. Plus, people below also mentioned that they haven't rebalanced all the big lategame bosses so that's gonna suck.
Have about 200 hours logged on Unfair since 1.2. Game is, in fact, not boring. It is markedly more interesting and entertaining now that you can't just steamroll encounters and bosses with Cass and Argenta before the enemy even gets a turn.
Sure, if you require the ability to win every fight before the fight starts in order to have fun, you might find the balance boring. But I might suggest a different sort of game in that case. This one is now working more or less as intended.
@@waldemardaninsky6015 This is the smuggest reply I've seen in a while. Good show.
The big issue here is the difference between additive vs subtractive balancing. Doing what Lairian did with BG3, adding a harder difficulty and more difficulty customization? I'm all for that, it adds new features for those who want more of a challenge without screwing over those of us who were enjoying the game. What Owlet seems to be doing? Nerfing existing abilities and effectively saying if you don't like the new difficulty to start a new run on an easier difficulty? No, I cannot and will not approve of features or experiences being subtracted from a product I have bought and paid for.
The broken features and exploits were allowing people to steamroll Turn 1 wins on the Unfair setting without the enemy bosses even getting a turn. That is now less likely, though still possible in some instances.
The devs decided they wanted the game to be more balanced. You don't own the game. You bought a license to play their software. Part of the ToS you agree to when playing THEIR game is that they make what changes they want and you play the game they give you. You don't have to approve of it. You do have to accept that the days of winning Unfair boss fights before the enemy gets a single turn are a thing of the past.
If you weren't using those exploits to cheese your way through effortless victories on Unfair, then you probably won't even notice half of these changes.
I dunno mate, I already decided this game wasn't for me. I doubt any amount of patching is going to change my mind. Still, I encourage you to play it if you like it.
What did you dislike about it?
Its broken AF, keep getting stuck in a "knockout" loop so I can't do anything but quit and reload.