I think Heretic needs another companion more than other paths, it feels very lonely compared to other convictions. You simply have Idira and that's it, when you get the other two companions the game is already over. I'm sure they will add more with dlc but I do think it would have been great to have more heretics around from the very beginning.
at least they should give the option to pull companions to your own conviction. so you could pull the entire team to heresy or even pull idira to dogmatic , would feel more impactfull
Sounds like a similar problem that BG 3 has if you play an evil Dark Urge, I ended up with Shadowheart, Astarion and Minthara, the rest others were indisposed. I never really felt like Shadowheart belonged.
I did an Iconoclast criminal playthrough and sometimes it felt silly how the main character could be the nicest person ever in their iconoclast specific lines where a threat to kill everyone if they don't surrender and leave would feel much more appropriate. I would've liked the option for the character to see imperial laws more like a set of recommendations rather than a codex of rules. But it often felt like choices were "save everyone", "kill everyone for the God-Emperor" and "kill everyone because it's fun"
Agreed, sounds like our characters were very similar. I enjoyed the roleplay in the visual novel style segments where it takes you through an event with text only and you have some choices to make. I found those choices _far_ more grey and harder to determine what to do. But in the vast majority of main story moments, yea, its just a 3 way decision, and I was kind of shocked to see how often the action is the exact same, but just your _reason_ for doing it is different. like you said, 'kill everyone for the emperor' or 'kill everyone because you're a heretic'. Everyone dies in both, just some different text. All in all however, I do really love the game, and it's the most immersive 40k game I've ever played.
Yeah I'm thinking it needs a 4th tree, like dogmatic, iconoclast, renegade and heretic. Where renegade woukd be say criminal/immoral but not chaos aligned.
I mean the game itself hints at Argenta having a khornate streak THE WHOLE TIME. And then doesn't let you corrupt her... I mean I get we can't really change Heinrix or Ulfar but everyone else should at least be somewhat swayed.
@@mnk9073Especially given how abelard ends up in the epilogue, argenta has that khornate streak, the mechanicius guy being introduced to tzeentch would've been awesome, or how about using chaotic shenanigans to save and sway cassia especially.
@@Ahriman13 While it does exist, Sisters of Battle AFAIK are THE most chaos resistant group in all of Warhammer so I think the one Sister of Battle companion not being corruptable makes sense.
I went Iconoclast for my primary but occasionally Dogmatic. I'm not even sure I made rank four Iconoclast before the final area and I think I was barely rank 1 Dogmatic. IMO they really need to boost Conviction point gain, or at least add a ton of Conviction point options in the story DLCs.
Even with the DLC you get 500 total conviction points. I played by selecting the best choices for the situation which was mostly Iconoclast with a mix of Dogmaitc from time to time. Ended up with 400 Iconoclast points and 100 Dogmaitc points. So to get to the final rank of Zealot, you need to ONLY do the options of your main Conviction including DLC options.
For that missing heretic points. In some dialogs you have more than one way to get heretic points. For example you start dialogue make it to the point where class choice has and there has been more less one iconclass, one Dogmatic and one or two heretic ways and some others neutral. There is a catch, you can pretend to be good in one way by picking some neutral choice and later in dialog make much worst desicion to get much more heretic points. No every first choice get you more heretic points. You have to be smart to do worst evil things with best heretic points payout
Ok but that really needs to be explained to the player at some point. For two reasons really that it not intuitive as a game mechanic and not intuitive as a game story. Game mechanics is obvious you see option you go for because that heretic option. As for story in real life that makes to hide the heretical actions with mask but it game so you don’t know or assume that they wouldn’t reward/implement that in the game. It is still a flaw of game design. Using daemon whispers would be a good way to implement in it at least in prologue/act 1.
As usual I agree with most of your points! I personally went with a melee/arch militant build and I killed Yrliet right after you fight the eldar on the planet you get her. The gameplay /class felt awesome. And yeah I agree with the ranged pyro vs melee, melee pyro is REAAAAAAAAAAALLLY good/tanky. The ranged one is lacking. I also wish we could worship a specific chaos god. The only thing that I really want from Rogue Trader is an ORK Companion!!!
Going into pyromancer being an operative is probably smoother, but low level is still gun-play. Once you get enough psy rating and leaders in your group though, pyro steamrolls through fights. I only reached tier IV in Heretics, hoping to see what tier V has in stoŕe. You're very right about reactivity of the world and companions, that's quite immersion breaking in late game.
Story wise Heretical doesnt work. Argenta and Henreich wouldve killed you with out thinking about it. Argenta basically proves that when you take her with you to Cammorah
Immersion breaking... so true :( I've just dropped heretic playthrough because of this. Also you literally lose some quests - the more barbaric / sadistic behavior you choose, the less you get as a player (including exp). Somehow I didn't even find out that Vistenza Wyatt (Janus gov.) is a servant of chaos while I did this on my dogma / icon playthrough. And because of that I couldn't say to her that I'm ok with using chaos powers (and I had those options before for both dogma / icon runs).
One of the reasons why the game does a good job of addressing the character by gender is that the game is made by a Russian studio. In Russian, when referring to each gender, you have to change half the words in a sentence, not just "He" or "She".
12:31 nah, your right. No game should expect you to have to use extensive outside knowledge to understand what is even happening. It's bad design. It ruins the chance to immerse new players and old by telling them about the lore. Even things the old vets may not have known. For it to absent is tragic. Great review by the way.
In the endgame I was basically talking to the inquisitor with Uralon on my side. The inquisitor never even mentioned it, nor did Uralon chatted to the inquisitor. Having a Chaos space marine not having a single word to his archennemy and vice-versa was soooo underwhelming.
admittedly, unless you already knew something about the Chaos gods already, it might not have been clear who was pulling the strings. those in the know would have realised from the symbol that Kunrad had scribed on the bridge in the prologue (it's literally the symbol of the god).
Doing my first run now as an Iconoclast, think I will try one run out for each disposition. I like Iconoclast...because you are the nice guy and people like you but Heretic sounds interesting for different reasons.
I believe you can achieve maximum disposition with any conviction. However you gonna need pretty much every single decision in that conviction. It will be easier once the DLC come out. The first 2 DLC's expand on the story and add more content, thus more decision. In fact i get the feeling that the first 2 DLC were cut content that they didn't have time to make so they decided to stick them into DLC. Also the fact that i finished my 2 playthroughs far away form the maximum level in the game tell me that.
I was so hyped to play as Psyker , i don't know Warhammer as i do Pathfinder system so i was under the impression they will be a little like Ciphers from Pillars of Eternity, but they are very weak at the start and take a long time for them to be fun to play, not gonna lie im a little disappointed since the start is what "sell" the classes most of the time .... And yes im aware they are not a class per se but a Origin, but you know what i mean.
Psyker is kind of an origin and a class, they get more talents and abilities from their origin than what others do. You pick what type of psyker they are, so if you want to you can build them like a Cipher with the right class.
Well good to know, i'm on an icon run, i was thinking an evil run but if companions don't really react to what you do or even have evil companion choices like the haemonculi in your party (that would be fking awesome) then what's the point? Also, an option to choose a deity/power like we had in Wrath of the righteous mythic paths. I feel like they went lazy...
So far I did the iconoclast run but badly done as I picked the decision I felt were right. Only after a while I focused on iconoclast. Also did dogmatic, trying to take every dogmatic decision. I was disappointed with the ending credits for iconoclast. I was waiting for them to fix heretic as it was the one who had most issues
recently picked this up and going a heretic route to rep the world eaters. it's kinda ashame that you lose followers and the ones you can get are so late into the game they aren't really relevant. i kinda wishyou could corrupt some followers to side with you. also i wanna pick a god and get a buff based on that god to give it more spice. hopefully they will add to this in the future
This meshes with my one and only play through which was heretic. It was also on release so my act 4 was rather buggy. Melee pyro so much more consistent. I did blow up either myself or Adira pretty much every fight. I plan to do the other two flavours with the DLC.
Heretic is by far the worst conviction lore wise, you do all these messed up things and your companions still accompany you to suicide like scenarios xD
11:30 I will disagree, but for different reasons. IMO, the game deliberately reduces and obscures the personas of the Chaos Gods. They are not involved in this fight. Individual demons are doing shenanigans, but Tzeentch, Slaanesh, Khorne, and Nurgle are too big for this. And as a good imperial citizen, you aren't even supposed to know their names so the names don't get mentioned. So IMO, this is not a failure but a deliberate design choice - you are not playing with the gods.
No I definitely think it's a deliberate design choice my point is that it's a poor one. I would much rather the game be upfront about their involvement.
Yup. Not mentioning the gods is on point for the lore. But it would've been nice if Heinrix or the Lord Inquisitor had some dialogue to explain that as an olive branch for players, not familiar with 40k.
The problem with many games is that you were not really meant to be EVILbut the option is there. Otherwise people would say "oh, damn, why the devs do not let us play the bad boy?" Interestingly enough though : if you are dogmatic, then you also do terrible things. This is the world of the grim dark future after all !!
I can't serve Tzeentch and get his Pink flames? That kinda sucks makes me wish the moral choices got spell options for psykers, like holy light spells for Dogmatic, Eldar spells for Iconaclast, and of course Chaos spells for Chaos, maybe they even break Chaos into God affinities at a later point
honestly, with your point of not really knowing what was going on or what god you were working/fighting against. i think that that is the point, you dont know, your character shouldnt and neither should you. obviusly for those who already know lore, you know whats going to happen because its hard to hide something that anyone with knoledge would know about while also presenting it enough that new people and people that dont want to spend eight hours looking for a single clue can actually witness it.
Found it odd to mention the pronoun stuff, have played tons of other similar games and it was never a thought in my mind. I already knew this game cared a lot about the dialogue just from the way the Adeptus Mechanicus wants admin control with your blood being the password at the end of act 1 which i found also funny lol. But all the other complaints, valid. Looking forward to doing my heritcal run with the new companion from the DLC.
I disagree. I think Bounty Hunter is the worst archetype in the game. I prefer to do soldier arch-militant for psykers. Run and gun works with psyker abilities
At the time of this video Bounty Hunter had a passive that allowed Psykers to get extra turns where they could also attack. It was UNQUESTIONABLY the strongest archetype for Psykers to have. That's been patched out now so it's not as useful for them.
This whole convictions system is bs. There should be heresy and everything else. You should not be darth vader to be loyal servant of the Emperium. In fact Emperor himself would be iconclast in this game.
Awful state, well living as an average imperial citizen...there isn't realy any difference, sell your soul fast so you get tortured less later. THE EMPEROR SUCKS!
![Ice On My Teeth - ATEEZ エイティーズ 에이티즈 [Music Bank] | KBS WORLD TV 241115](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/c-n92OgbbwA/mqdefault.jpg)
I think Heretic needs another companion more than other paths, it feels very lonely compared to other convictions. You simply have Idira and that's it, when you get the other two companions the game is already over. I'm sure they will add more with dlc but I do think it would have been great to have more heretics around from the very beginning.
Yeah, it was very obvious that needed to happen.
at least they should give the option to pull companions to your own conviction. so you could pull the entire team to heresy or even pull idira to dogmatic , would feel more impactfull
Yup it definitely could use more support.
Sounds like a similar problem that BG 3 has if you play an evil Dark Urge, I ended up with Shadowheart, Astarion and Minthara, the rest others were indisposed. I never really felt like Shadowheart belonged.
@@robcampion9917 This tends to be a problem with these games. Because 90% of players won't do evil runs they get a lot less content and love.
I did an Iconoclast criminal playthrough and sometimes it felt silly how the main character could be the nicest person ever in their iconoclast specific lines where a threat to kill everyone if they don't surrender and leave would feel much more appropriate. I would've liked the option for the character to see imperial laws more like a set of recommendations rather than a codex of rules. But it often felt like choices were "save everyone", "kill everyone for the God-Emperor" and "kill everyone because it's fun"
Agreed, sounds like our characters were very similar. I enjoyed the roleplay in the visual novel style segments where it takes you through an event with text only and you have some choices to make. I found those choices _far_ more grey and harder to determine what to do. But in the vast majority of main story moments, yea, its just a 3 way decision, and I was kind of shocked to see how often the action is the exact same, but just your _reason_ for doing it is different. like you said, 'kill everyone for the emperor' or 'kill everyone because you're a heretic'. Everyone dies in both, just some different text.
All in all however, I do really love the game, and it's the most immersive 40k game I've ever played.
Yeah I'm thinking it needs a 4th tree, like dogmatic, iconoclast, renegade and heretic. Where renegade woukd be say criminal/immoral but not chaos aligned.
"save everyone", "kill everyone for the God-Emperor" and "kill everyone because it's fun"
But thats WH40k.
@@stevenbarry3941 this is HERECY!
Agree it would be more balanced and less odd if you could corrupt one or two of the other companions.
Yup would flesh out the experience a lot more.
I mean the game itself hints at Argenta having a khornate streak THE WHOLE TIME. And then doesn't let you corrupt her...
I mean I get we can't really change Heinrix or Ulfar but everyone else should at least be somewhat swayed.
@@mnk9073Especially given how abelard ends up in the epilogue, argenta has that khornate streak, the mechanicius guy being introduced to tzeentch would've been awesome, or how about using chaotic shenanigans to save and sway cassia especially.
@@mnk9073 Even in lore there have been Sisters have fallen to Chaos of their own accord
@@Ahriman13 While it does exist, Sisters of Battle AFAIK are THE most chaos resistant group in all of Warhammer so I think the one Sister of Battle companion not being corruptable makes sense.
I went Iconoclast for my primary but occasionally Dogmatic. I'm not even sure I made rank four Iconoclast before the final area and I think I was barely rank 1 Dogmatic. IMO they really need to boost Conviction point gain, or at least add a ton of Conviction point options in the story DLCs.
Even with the DLC you get 500 total conviction points. I played by selecting the best choices for the situation which was mostly Iconoclast with a mix of Dogmaitc from time to time. Ended up with 400 Iconoclast points and 100 Dogmaitc points.
So to get to the final rank of Zealot, you need to ONLY do the options of your main Conviction including DLC options.
For that missing heretic points. In some dialogs you have more than one way to get heretic points. For example you start dialogue make it to the point where class choice has and there has been more less one iconclass, one Dogmatic and one or two heretic ways and some others neutral. There is a catch, you can pretend to be good in one way by picking some neutral choice and later in dialog make much worst desicion to get much more heretic points. No every first choice get you more heretic points. You have to be smart to do worst evil things with best heretic points payout
Ok but that really needs to be explained to the player at some point. For two reasons really that it not intuitive as a game mechanic and not intuitive as a game story. Game mechanics is obvious you see option you go for because that heretic option. As for story in real life that makes to hide the heretical actions with mask but it game so you don’t know or assume that they wouldn’t reward/implement that in the game. It is still a flaw of game design. Using daemon whispers would be a good way to implement in it at least in prologue/act 1.
As usual I agree with most of your points! I personally went with a melee/arch militant build and I killed Yrliet right after you fight the eldar on the planet you get her. The gameplay /class felt awesome. And yeah I agree with the ranged pyro vs melee, melee pyro is REAAAAAAAAAAALLLY good/tanky. The ranged one is lacking.
I also wish we could worship a specific chaos god.
The only thing that I really want from Rogue Trader is an ORK Companion!!!
LOL Hopefully they'll add one in the next game.
Going into pyromancer being an operative is probably smoother, but low level is still gun-play. Once you get enough psy rating and leaders in your group though, pyro steamrolls through fights.
I only reached tier IV in Heretics, hoping to see what tier V has in stoŕe.
You're very right about reactivity of the world and companions, that's quite immersion breaking in late game.
Yup low level I focused on using guns.
I recommend the DLC, it rounds out the Heretic Path by a LOT. And Iconoclast is VERY unique as well.
Story wise Heretical doesnt work. Argenta and Henreich wouldve killed you with out thinking about it. Argenta basically proves that when you take her with you to Cammorah
Yup I agree it's not consistent but I still had a blast.
guys... The Lord Captain kinda Sus
😂
Immersion breaking... so true :(
I've just dropped heretic playthrough because of this. Also you literally lose some quests - the more barbaric / sadistic behavior you choose, the less you get as a player (including exp). Somehow I didn't even find out that Vistenza Wyatt (Janus gov.) is a servant of chaos while I did this on my dogma / icon playthrough. And because of that I couldn't say to her that I'm ok with using chaos powers (and I had those options before for both dogma / icon runs).
One of the reasons why the game does a good job of addressing the character by gender is that the game is made by a Russian studio. In Russian, when referring to each gender, you have to change half the words in a sentence, not just "He" or "She".
Answer to 4:45
Wowwwwwwwwwwww that is fascinating. Definitely didn't know that thank you for calling it out.
Shame to hear as wrath of the righteous I found my evil run was more fun as act 3,4 really ramped up for evil and wished for same experience.
You do get some of that but this isn't as good as Demon in WotR.
im getting into this now. Thanks for the vids man.
My pleasure!
Great review. Sums up my feelings exactly.
12:31 nah, your right. No game should expect you to have to use extensive outside knowledge to understand what is even happening. It's bad design. It ruins the chance to immerse new players and old by telling them about the lore. Even things the old vets may not have known. For it to absent is tragic. Great review by the way.
Thank you!
In the endgame I was basically talking to the inquisitor with Uralon on my side. The inquisitor never even mentioned it, nor did Uralon chatted to the inquisitor. Having a Chaos space marine not having a single word to his archennemy and vice-versa was soooo underwhelming.
the most honest game reviewer on youtube.. wish you have more sub
admittedly, unless you already knew something about the Chaos gods already, it might not have been clear who was pulling the strings. those in the know would have realised from the symbol that Kunrad had scribed on the bridge in the prologue (it's literally the symbol of the god).
Doing my first run now as an Iconoclast, think I will try one run out for each disposition. I like Iconoclast...because you are the nice guy and people like you but Heretic sounds interesting for different reasons.
I believe you can achieve maximum disposition with any conviction. However you gonna need pretty much every single decision in that conviction.
It will be easier once the DLC come out.
The first 2 DLC's expand on the story and add more content, thus more decision.
In fact i get the feeling that the first 2 DLC were cut content that they didn't have time to make so they decided to stick them into DLC.
Also the fact that i finished my 2 playthroughs far away form the maximum level in the game tell me that.
Hmmmm you are probably right.
I was so hyped to play as Psyker , i don't know Warhammer as i do Pathfinder system so i was under the impression they will be a little like Ciphers from Pillars of Eternity, but they are very weak at the start and take a long time for them to be fun to play, not gonna lie im a little disappointed since the start is what "sell" the classes most of the time .... And yes im aware they are not a class per se but a Origin, but you know what i mean.
Psyker is kind of an origin and a class, they get more talents and abilities from their origin than what others do. You pick what type of psyker they are, so if you want to you can build them like a Cipher with the right class.
Yeah I think the curve takes too long to get going. It's great once you are in Act 2 though.
I completely agree about the companions reactions and stuff
Well good to know, i'm on an icon run, i was thinking an evil run but if companions don't really react to what you do or even have evil companion choices like the haemonculi in your party (that would be fking awesome) then what's the point? Also, an option to choose a deity/power like we had in Wrath of the righteous mythic paths. I feel like they went lazy...
So far I did the iconoclast run but badly done as I picked the decision I felt were right. Only after a while I focused on iconoclast.
Also did dogmatic, trying to take every dogmatic decision.
I was disappointed with the ending credits for iconoclast.
I was waiting for them to fix heretic as it was the one who had most issues
There is some reactivity but not nearly enough. I don't think the lack of deity option is laziness I think GW probably told them no.
@@SlanderedGaming Counter point; coding is hard and this game has a ton of stuff in it already.
recently picked this up and going a heretic route to rep the world eaters. it's kinda ashame that you lose followers and the ones you can get are so late into the game they aren't really relevant. i kinda wishyou could corrupt some followers to side with you.
also i wanna pick a god and get a buff based on that god to give it more spice. hopefully they will add to this in the future
This meshes with my one and only play through which was heretic. It was also on release so my act 4 was rather buggy.
Melee pyro so much more consistent. I did blow up either myself or Adira pretty much every fight.
I plan to do the other two flavours with the DLC.
I think I am going to save Iconoclast for a DLC run.
I was hoping you could corrupt your companions as the game went on the fact you cant makes me never want to play the heretical path.
It definitely puts a downer on it but I still think the path is fun.
Tempted to start a melee pyro psycho heretic run myself.
The mechanics for it are FANTASTIC.
Heretic is by far the worst conviction lore wise, you do all these messed up things and your companions still accompany you to suicide like scenarios xD
11:30 I will disagree, but for different reasons. IMO, the game deliberately reduces and obscures the personas of the Chaos Gods. They are not involved in this fight. Individual demons are doing shenanigans, but Tzeentch, Slaanesh, Khorne, and Nurgle are too big for this. And as a good imperial citizen, you aren't even supposed to know their names so the names don't get mentioned. So IMO, this is not a failure but a deliberate design choice - you are not playing with the gods.
No I definitely think it's a deliberate design choice my point is that it's a poor one. I would much rather the game be upfront about their involvement.
Yup. Not mentioning the gods is on point for the lore. But it would've been nice if Heinrix or the Lord Inquisitor had some dialogue to explain that as an olive branch for players, not familiar with 40k.
The more recent updates to the game make Sanctioned Psykers waaaaaay better. The pyromancer gets online around level 14 instead of in the 20s
Yup the recent patches really helped Psykers.
The problem with many games is that you were not really meant to be EVILbut the option is there. Otherwise people would say "oh, damn, why the devs do not let us play the bad boy?" Interestingly enough though : if you are dogmatic, then you also do terrible things. This is the world of the grim dark future after all !!
Thanks for the video
My pleasure!
I started my heretic campaign and the name of my voidshop is "Horus Glory".
Is this heretic enough?
I can't serve Tzeentch and get his Pink flames? That kinda sucks makes me wish the moral choices got spell options for psykers, like holy light spells for Dogmatic, Eldar spells for Iconaclast, and of course Chaos spells for Chaos, maybe they even break Chaos into God affinities at a later point
If you get the game I hope you enjoy it. :)
honestly, with your point of not really knowing what was going on or what god you were working/fighting against. i think that that is the point, you dont know, your character shouldnt and neither should you. obviusly for those who already know lore, you know whats going to happen because its hard to hide something that anyone with knoledge would know about while also presenting it enough that new people and people that dont want to spend eight hours looking for a single clue can actually witness it.
Bounty Hunter's Savour the Kill talent no longer allows using offensive psychic powers;
Yup there's been a bunch of big changes.
I'm playing as Dogmatic and the game is about to end. Does the story change when I play Heretic? I think there should be a different storyline.
Yes there are many changes that occur when you are going down a heretic path.
Lack of god choice may be due to wordbearer angle.
Found it odd to mention the pronoun stuff, have played tons of other similar games and it was never a thought in my mind. I already knew this game cared a lot about the dialogue just from the way the Adeptus Mechanicus wants admin control with your blood being the password at the end of act 1 which i found also funny lol. But all the other complaints, valid. Looking forward to doing my heritcal run with the new companion from the DLC.
I disagree. I think Bounty Hunter is the worst archetype in the game. I prefer to do soldier arch-militant for psykers. Run and gun works with psyker abilities
At the time of this video Bounty Hunter had a passive that allowed Psykers to get extra turns where they could also attack. It was UNQUESTIONABLY the strongest archetype for Psykers to have. That's been patched out now so it's not as useful for them.
I finished my heretic run on 499 heretic points lmao
This whole convictions system is bs. There should be heresy and everything else. You should not be darth vader to be loyal servant of the Emperium. In fact Emperor himself would be iconclast in this game.
Yes but that's what makes it so tragic how far the Imperium has fallen.
👍🏾👍🏾💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
Greetings imperial citizens! What is going on here....By the Emperor
😂😂
Awful state, well living as an average imperial citizen...there isn't realy any difference, sell your soul fast so you get tortured less later. THE EMPEROR SUCKS!
😂