@@JAG-1969for the love of god, please don’t ask people what the hell they’re talking about if you yourself do not know what the hell you’re talking about.
The fact that there's so many Porsche resto-mods is an indicator that people are lusting after an analogue experience over an EV experience. Example, Rimac cars are just not popping in spite of their performance
Also, at the price level those cars are commanding, many people want a car that is bespoke rather than whatever the original manufacturer threw together. They want to know that their car is a bit different from any other one on the road.
Rimac Nevera has been on sale for 2.5 years with a limited production stated at 150 cars. Nearly 3 years later, they have sold 50 cars to the same number of rich idiots. That car is destined for a junkyard because at some point, batteries will either cost more than the car or just be unavailable (in 20 years, if Rimac is still around, will they support a battery pack like this?). Good luck to those who will buy that future $2M paperweight.
When you can play around with Porsche restomods your wife drives an EV. She doesn’t want to visit the dealership every month. Or go to dirty gas stations or smell the exhaust fumes. She enjoys charging the car at home with power from her own rooftop solar system. Plus she might enjoy blowing off your car once in a while. 😂
The 80s and 90s cars are very usable today, and speaking as a kid of the 80's (I am 43 years old) - I can see myself buying a car I had a poster of when my bank account is large enough.
@ryanpatterson9526 The group of people that can afford to spend this kind of money will get smaller every proceededing generation. Take a look at an affordable sports car like a gr86 or miata 30kish. How many people with the mortgage and kids can afford that right now it's less than previous decades.
It's always been this way, the have's and the have-nots. There was a time when super rich were actively trying to outdo each other to build the largest single family home in the USA while the great depression was ongoing.
John, I always enjoyed the quick conversations we had when I used to work next door to Curated. I believe you are right with a lot of the speculations that you have about where the collector car market is going. I do have one thing to add though. I get a feeling the the meat of the next collectors generation is the 1990 to 2010 era. It is the new golden era of cars where technology made them more usable and reliable, but not enough tech to intrude in the experience so it stays analog enough. And to the point that a lot of people are looking into usable collector cars, that is probably because the newer gen realized that the prices of the older cars are softening because owners stashed them away and if people never see them, they get forgotten about. So by keeping them occasionally out and about will help keep them relevant and part of the conversation. Of course that may not apply past a certain bracket of unique cars, but I hope you get the point.
Monterey is the perfect location for this type of event with many areas for cars and people to gather. Monterey has beautiful scenery, roads, events, and everything that goes with the Pebble Beach vibe. I have previously said that there were too many Al Capone cars (as I call 65+ year old road cars) at Pebble Beeach and other concours. And I think you're right-on, the shift has finally really taken place. Today we have younger people active in the car world, who had a poster of their favorite cars on their bedroom wall as a kid... Eveyone alive today lusted over either Miura, Countach, Diablo, Daytona/Testarossa/246 Dino, GT cars, 911/930 Porsche's, and others of the 70's/80's/90's..
Well, I guess if you won't, you're expensive car to get broke into and then get a ticket for a loud exhaust that is factory. Then deal with californians, who are all brain dead. Supper amazing place.
Been a collector car nut for years, and one car I cannot understand is the Diablo prices, which are insane. Those aren’t even built that well! I’d take a Pista, 458 Special, Performante, Aventador SV, etc for way less.
Cars of the 1930's dominate Pebble Beach because this is the decade that produced the most beautiful and spectacular cars ever made. The decade also had a huge number of luxury car makers with an almost infinite variety of body styles by a huge variety of coachbuilders. There will never again be a car such as a Duesenberg J Figoni, a Hispano-Suiza J12, Mercedes-Benz 540K Spezial Roadster, or an Alfa Romeo 8c 2900B. After WW2, the only Rolls-Royce and Mercedes-Benz remained as top quality luxury manufacturers, and even they did not reach their pre-war pinnacle. I hope - in fact I am certain - that Pebble Beach will continue to display the top pre-war cars, not the post-war stuff. I grew up in the 1980's, and I certainly never lusted over any Countach or a Porsche. I did obsess over then current Rolls-Royce / Bentley models, particularly the Corniche, largely because these reminded me of the 1930's. Born in the 1970s and still on the right side of 50, I don't consider myself old - yet.
You two are spot on. The car market is still strong for the right car. And the “right” car now means some usability. To me, that means any car that is from the ‘60’s and newer. When tied to the generational shift, it all makes sense. Specific cars, like the 275GTB you mention, will always have a following. But older cars (50’s and older), without the same status and lack of usability, will be fighting a headwind. The market is adjusting. And the newer (younger) buyers know what they want.
@@bngr_bngr Won’t disagree that there are certainly some rare Porsche’s from the 50’s. On a side note, for a car from that era, at least they don’t drive like a land yacht.
Spent time at the Gooding Auction front desk just observing people and it really interesting. Who has access to real money for these cars-who doesn't? Noteworthy was the suprise cameo appearance of the Kimera 037 Evo Martini edition at Concorso Italiano. Was talking with the engineers then they got jumpy and I could tell they had to go somewhere. 1/2 later I fittingly caught a glimpse of the two Kimeras sneaking out down a golf couse service road most likely to go to an exclusive party at an estate. There is magic for everyone at Pebble Beach no matter how rich or how poor. Best car event in the world!
Murci selling for about as much as a Veyron is crazy to me. I do have a question for you guys which is what do you think is going to happen to the value of prewar blue chip cars like the delahayes and the duesenbergs? I don't attend the kind of events you do and am wondering if there is much love for them from a younger audience
@@iancole85 Kind of makes sense. From today's point of view these are incredible pieces of art, testament to what people were capable of making generations ago... but they are getting pretty far from what is considered a "car" nowadays.
I think alot of us were at first disappointed with the numbers, however it was actually pretty good when you dive in. Something to remember about this year, was just how poor Bonhams did... They did just barely over 11M....thats not profit...thats TOTAL sales of $11M....previous years they did regularly over 50M. ALL of the other houses did either near the same or BETTER than previous years... If Bonhams could have just got close to previous years, it would have been closer to a $430M weekend which would be the second highest ever.
@@bngr_bngr No sir, you are dead wrong. The 997.2 GTS has Porsche’s bulletproof 9A1 engine. The old air cooled engines were the ones that needed to be rebuilt after 100,000 miles.
Much more than 40 years ago. I went to my first car week in 1982, when Porsche was the featured marque. Monterey car week was already a long established tradition back then.
Monterey is car Mecca no matter what. It is the globally premier shows for all things automotive, and absolutely world class. Nothing even comes close to what car week offers. So happy to live here on the central coast.
I grew up in the 90s looking at em in the dupont registry, knowing that they were not only a bargain but also one of the most special vehicles ever built. Ten year old me was fascinated by a military off roader built by the exotic car maker of dreams.
its simple: just like my dad appreciated the cars my grandfather bought but would never buy them for him self . so was i 15 years ago in the same boat ...aka...i liked my dads collection but sold all to buy and fill my garage w. cars i fancied. Now 5-6 years ago i took my ( late teens at the time ) kids to PB barrett jackson and each had to pick one car to buy for them self .....WHAT A EYE OPENER .... . well shortly after i started selling 3/4 of my collection and bought cars my kids wanted ........ turns out one of the best financial / investment decision ! i am still looking for cars for my self but i rather have a higher mile example that i can worry free enjoy then the mint garage / trailer queen like a chased in years past. PS: few years ago i bought back my dads GTS pantera ...not for sale ! my son loves it and will be the next custodian of it !
When I was a kid there was a tired Lamborghini Miura for sale on a used car lot nearby for $20k. More than my lawn mowing business could support unfortunately. The year was 1977 Los Angeles and you could buy a small home for what that old car was priced at.
Great stuff as always. Having followed auctions for 35 years, I always wondered how auctions have conditioned us not to mention premium/fees. The buyer is paying much more than the hammer price always mentioned. Since first attending BJ in 1989, I think I have witnessed 3 gens of traders. Currently the Gen Xers are trading, hence the decades you mentioned.
There's a great video from Porsche Club of America about that yellow 993 speedster. It took 3 years to do and the bespoke color is named after the owner's dog: Otto Yellow.
Hopefully the investors movement is moving away from the 60s and back in time, that would make the way for those who are truly passionate for interesting cars of the past. That's in fact what happened with the Nethercutt collection, which is formed with cars which were bought in times when they had no financial value. For me it's not just the money, it's also the history, the 80s and 90s are wonderful (I was born in 1982), but at least for me, the truly interesting history is the cars from the 60s and backwards down to the origins of the automobile and that is how my car collection would be formed if possible. Let's hope for a future with collectors passionate for history as well and not just investors.
I want to say that agreed the 80's and 90's is truly the highest in reliability and quality. Let's not forget about that these new cars rat you out of you get caught being a naughty person. Fuel injection is something you really can daily compared to carbureted. -IMO Thankfully I was just ahead of the curb on purchases. And being able to afford the maintenance. Be aware of old cars. They will always need something. I will always say this. It truly does not matter the mileage on a vehicle. Maintenance records are Key. Please again have maintenance records. Do have someone look over the vehicle before purchasing. Including a dealership. God speed and God bless
It would be great if manufacturers started building restomods of their older models. Or at least something like Aston Martin Works. Hopefully not too many limited "special" editions so they don't end up costing millions of dollars each.
Great video as always.Thx. Another point about the older classic cars vs the more modern classics is that the people who has/had the knowledge to work on those & maintain etc aint so many across the world & buyers dont want to lets say...struggle to keep those older classics going/fixing. I see this on a daily basis as I build/restore cars for a living & hotrods/kustoms too. Parts are also another factor when you come to the older than 70's classics. Whats your thoughts on this? Thx
Great to hear your opinions and reactions on this. Is it safe to say that 70-80s classic cars are somewhat safe from now on from rising in value? Im talking about Ferrari 308s, Alfa Romeos and Mercedes from that period, etc. Maybe the classic car market leaped over them already?
Spot on boys. I'm 54 and started collecting 911's when they were $10-15K. Why? Because they were useable and I lusted for one after driving one once when I was 16. OK, Risky Business might have had a factor in it too. Never interested in anything pre-war. About go through a Pagoda out of a garage and running that's been sitting forever. But that's close to my birth year and so fun to drive and useable. Sub'd.
I think the bottom line is that the new generation of collectors are coming in and they don’t want the older cars. There will still be a market for them but this will decline overtime. I do feel that the cars like the CGT Murcie etc will hit a point and either the bubble will burst or they will just level off either way it’s crazy values for them right now. I agree about the amount of 911 restomods is silly now
I recently sold my three Nissan 240sx’s one s13 fully built ls2/t56 sold that for $27k could of got more. but to my huge surprise my 1993 s13 convertible stock 60k mile sold for 18k paid 3k for it 10 years ago. My 1995 s14 stock 80k mile sold for 21k I paid 3500 11 years ago. Yes these all were really nice cars but yes I would say the market has definitely changed our generation is ready to collect and it’s the cars of our youth.
Younger rich tech dudes don't "get" paying $10mm for a 1960's car with 290HP. They gravitate to the bedroom-poster supercars of their childhood. Most collectible markets change over time with the demographics of the buyers. Except for art.
I love watching rich people lose money on bad investments! I went to Pebble once and the level of pure snottiness was a 10. Jay Leno was the only down to earth person attending.
US market vs European market is interesting different… but indeed youngtimers have the future which is also logical looking at the current 35-45 years money makers.
@@davids8493 likewise.. and yeah, I'll take a high milage and beat up example of a 550 any day. As the market shows, that may be my only option the day I'm able to buy.
I was following the Gooding & Co auction... the cars were just not selling. The bidding was so far off. Cars were rolling off the block back to the storage lot.... It was a shocking disappointment frankly.
People buy the car either a parent/family friend/poster they fancied once they have disposable income, usually in their 50’s. Hence cars from the 1970’s-90’s are now popular and the latter years of that span will only get more popular. Cars from the 1950’-60’s their owners and those that lusted for them are sadly passing away. Their children are inheriting their cars. Most have no interest in them but feel guilty about selling them. So they’ll sit and deteriorate until they are eventually sold. 1950-60’s cars face more sellers than buyers, same as cars,from before that era. Sure Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston etc may defy gravity but for 95% of the classic market, the above applies. The other big hurdle for classic cars is the mechanics are aging too and leaving the trade, so either the owners fixes it or it becomes very expensive at current labour rates to fix cars. Most classic cars are not in the $100k and above range where money is no object but in the sub $50k range. If I am spending$700k on a car, I really don’t give a flying …. If it is down 8%, that’s the cost of my annum maintenance if I actually drive it.
I was a little offended that you referred to the Touring Veloce12 as a "restomod", it dishonors Touring as one of the pillars of automotive antiquity. 😒
The market represents the buyers. Young buyers dont want a car that they have to wrestle to start up or drive. We want turn key ready vehicles that DONT BREAK DOWN. Also CarPlay, working AC, bluetooth, power windows.
Thoughts on LP Lamborghini Gallardo’s? Debating picking one up. Not necessarily looking to make money on it but do you think it’ll hold its value? Seems like I’ll be paying around 135k - 145k for a decent single clutch car.
From the jump, I knew that you guys would focus on super oddball cars that are bringing still big numbers which is not reflective of the overall market. I think it’s a little misleading with the title. I do feel like the bigger story here is that the people that have the money, are buying their “dream cars”. And a lot of the guys that want the stuff from the 50s and 60s are dead or dying. so the huge appeal to that generation doesn’t carryover to the new generation. You’re seeing it in a muscle car market like crazy.
So I'm 39, I love old school muscle. I'd love to have a judge or a second gen formula so I say this with respect. 90% of those cars were dogs in stock form, like modern mini van performance dogs. People buy nostalgia, for me 90's JDM, viper, diablo,911,Vanquish, 4th gen camaro/trans am.
If you love money and already have lots of rare cars prices going up is good news. But if you love cars prices going down is good news, because you can buy more and the ones you already have will be kept for life anyway.
I think a lot of people are not at all excited about all this hybrid and electric cars and they are hanging on to their real super cars V-10 V-12. I hate the new v-8 lambo horrible
Yup. The older guys are getting dead so the older cars that used to get bid up (pre WWII) are cooling off and the tech/bitcoin bros are moving in and buying the cars they played on video games in their youth. They buy for passion more than investment so they bid up beyond market and set new comps.
The Gull wings ...yeah Hoovies just did a video and made the Gullwings look like the market is getting sad at just over 1 million sale prices ...BUT ..... Bring a Trailer just closed one yesterday at 1.8 mil.. Long live the King
I think the generational shift has been coming for a while, pre-war and other cars from the 60s and older don't have the buyers who had passion for them around or the numbers are shrinking as they age and die. Younger car guys and gals obviously have passion for cars they grew up with and that showed at Monterey this past week. And yeah, the hyper car market is still on fire. There at some point could be too many and some of the new, not well established brands might not make it. As for 911 resto mods, they are out of control.
This would better be titled "What's happening in the Investor car market". 90% of the reason for buying is to generate a return. Because they are chattles, in most countries, gains aren't subject to tax (as long as you're not a dealer). It's the same for the art market. Or the watch market. Or the wine market. Transportable, insurable, global market, no tax. Simple.
i h8 the 4rn community. theres somebody lookin like him. thought it was him😅. i was so sad. i was being like. how could a very cool guy and rich is involved on such occasion😔🤔. thank god dawg thank god. if i be at american. that p4rnstar guy. in big touble.
I think the car market is making a correction. But....I predicted this a few episodes ago. I said that cars that were actually drivable and collectible would be the imes that are going up. The Ferrari 365, 430, Aventador, 458, Diablo, and Porsche. You can find my comment from when you first did this and see what I predicted and if I was right. You can use my post to make a video..I won't be offended by being wrong. On most I think I'm right,
Is it just me or are these guys confusing a generational shift with a market bubble. They said real money, but real old money knows the market is in a recession hence why they are not buying their generation of 50s and 60s cars. While the younger get rich quick or social media kids that are my age are the ones overpaying in a bubble. Give it another year or two and the younger generation of cars price will fall drastically in my opinion. The smart money is starting to sell while the quick money generation are the only ones buying.
In the meantime, the average working man has had his salary and earning power cut in half. They can’t afford to buy a home or a car. Yet in these times, the Uber wealthy continue to thrive, and in fact are more more absorbing the wealth from the now nonexistent middle-class. We live in dark and disgusting times.
All these manual transmission cars are going to be a problem for the next gen. Most of the next gen don't care or want to even know how to shift. They grew up on paddle shifters in video games. I grew up on "Spy Hunter" where you had to shift low to high. We are not the same. LOL
Newer money for the 80s and 90s love, a generation passing on and the fact that the economy ain't doing to hot with an election that will swing the next political era.
The dollar is worth about 60 cents of what it was worth a few years ago. This is just as much a reflection of inflation and the value of cars.
What the hell are you talking about? Inflation isn’t that bad give me a break.
How exactly is he wrong? Look at different social media posts on costs of food, insurance and look simply at home values in 2020 vs now.
When you just print money, what's out there is bound to lose value. FJB!
@@JAG-1969for the love of god, please don’t ask people what the hell they’re talking about if you yourself do not know what the hell you’re talking about.
@@JAG-1969 are you 10 years old? 31% inflation since 2016. Inflation is that bad.
The fact that there's so many Porsche resto-mods is an indicator that people are lusting after an analogue experience over an EV experience. Example, Rimac cars are just not popping in spite of their performance
Also, at the price level those cars are commanding, many people want a car that is bespoke rather than whatever the original manufacturer threw together. They want to know that their car is a bit different from any other one on the road.
Rimac Nevera has been on sale for 2.5 years with a limited production stated at 150 cars. Nearly 3 years later, they have sold 50 cars to the same number of rich idiots. That car is destined for a junkyard because at some point, batteries will either cost more than the car or just be unavailable (in 20 years, if Rimac is still around, will they support a battery pack like this?). Good luck to those who will buy that future $2M paperweight.
When you can play around with Porsche restomods your wife drives an EV. She doesn’t want to visit the dealership every month. Or go to dirty gas stations or smell the exhaust fumes. She enjoys charging the car at home with power from her own rooftop solar system. Plus she might enjoy blowing off your car once in a while. 😂
Rimacs are too new.
@@SomeTechGuy666 And way too expensive, I mean they are 2.5 million dollars
The 80s and 90s cars are very usable today, and speaking as a kid of the 80's (I am 43 years old) - I can see myself buying a car I had a poster of when my bank account is large enough.
Deferred maintenance.
Most newer collectors want their childhood dream cars! This was a great convo 🙏
This, wait until the 80-90s kids have more money to dispose. It’s a matter of time.
Half the world can't afford groceries and the other half are outbidding each other for collectible cars. What a strange time to be alive!
@ryanpatterson9526 The group of people that can afford to spend this kind of money will get smaller every proceededing generation. Take a look at an affordable sports car like a gr86 or miata 30kish. How many people with the mortgage and kids can afford that right now it's less than previous decades.
It's always been this way, the have's and the have-nots. There was a time when super rich were actively trying to outdo each other to build the largest single family home in the USA while the great depression was ongoing.
When has it not been like this? And it’s definitely not ‘half’.
You mean 99% and 1%?
The number is 9.2% for the world. 5.1% for the US.
Anyone else getting a framerate stutter
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Yes, re setting my phone stops it.
John, I always enjoyed the quick conversations we had when I used to work next door to Curated. I believe you are right with a lot of the speculations that you have about where the collector car market is going.
I do have one thing to add though. I get a feeling the the meat of the next collectors generation is the 1990 to 2010 era. It is the new golden era of cars where technology made them more usable and reliable, but not enough tech to intrude in the experience so it stays analog enough.
And to the point that a lot of people are looking into usable collector cars, that is probably because the newer gen realized that the prices of the older cars are softening because owners stashed them away and if people never see them, they get forgotten about. So by keeping them occasionally out and about will help keep them relevant and part of the conversation. Of course that may not apply past a certain bracket of unique cars, but I hope you get the point.
Monterey is the perfect location for this type of event with many areas for cars and people to gather. Monterey has beautiful scenery, roads, events, and everything that goes with the Pebble Beach vibe. I have previously said that there were too many Al Capone cars (as I call 65+ year old road cars) at Pebble Beeach and other concours. And I think you're right-on, the shift has finally really taken place. Today we have younger people active in the car world, who had a poster of their favorite cars on their bedroom wall as a kid... Eveyone alive today lusted over either Miura, Countach, Diablo, Daytona/Testarossa/246 Dino, GT cars, 911/930 Porsche's, and others of the 70's/80's/90's..
Well, I guess if you won't, you're expensive car to get broke into and then get a ticket for a loud exhaust that is factory. Then deal with californians, who are all brain dead. Supper amazing place.
Been a collector car nut for years, and one car I cannot understand is the Diablo prices, which are insane. Those aren’t even built that well! I’d take a Pista, 458 Special, Performante, Aventador SV, etc for way less.
Cars of the 1930's dominate Pebble Beach because this is the decade that produced the most beautiful and spectacular cars ever made. The decade also had a huge number of luxury car makers with an almost infinite variety of body styles by a huge variety of coachbuilders. There will never again be a car such as a Duesenberg J Figoni, a Hispano-Suiza J12, Mercedes-Benz 540K Spezial Roadster, or an Alfa Romeo 8c 2900B. After WW2, the only Rolls-Royce and Mercedes-Benz remained as top quality luxury manufacturers, and even they did not reach their pre-war pinnacle. I hope - in fact I am certain - that Pebble Beach will continue to display the top pre-war cars, not the post-war stuff.
I grew up in the 1980's, and I certainly never lusted over any Countach or a Porsche. I did obsess over then current Rolls-Royce / Bentley models, particularly the Corniche, largely because these reminded me of the 1930's. Born in the 1970s and still on the right side of 50, I don't consider myself old - yet.
You two are spot on. The car market is still strong for the right car. And the “right” car now means some usability. To me, that means any car that is from the ‘60’s and newer. When tied to the generational shift, it all makes sense. Specific cars, like the 275GTB you mention, will always have a following. But older cars (50’s and older), without the same status and lack of usability, will be fighting a headwind. The market is adjusting. And the newer (younger) buyers know what they want.
The rarest Porsches are from the 50’s.
@@bngr_bngr Won’t disagree that there are certainly some rare Porsche’s from the 50’s. On a side note, for a car from that era, at least they don’t drive like a land yacht.
I blame RUclipsrs like you for letting people think that these are classics were really they are just used supercars
Used cars at best. Collectable grade cars are few.
True, but these guys are used car sales, so what should we expect?
Spent time at the Gooding Auction front desk just observing people and it really interesting. Who has access to real money for these cars-who doesn't? Noteworthy was the suprise cameo appearance of the Kimera 037 Evo Martini edition at Concorso Italiano. Was talking with the engineers then they got jumpy and I could tell they had to go somewhere. 1/2 later I fittingly caught a glimpse of the two Kimeras sneaking out down a golf couse service road most likely to go to an exclusive party at an estate. There is magic for everyone at Pebble Beach no matter how rich or how poor. Best car event in the world!
Murci selling for about as much as a Veyron is crazy to me. I do have a question for you guys which is what do you think is going to happen to the value of prewar blue chip cars like the delahayes and the duesenbergs? I don't attend the kind of events you do and am wondering if there is much love for them from a younger audience
I think all those are going to museums tbh
@@iancole85 Kind of makes sense. From today's point of view these are incredible pieces of art, testament to what people were capable of making generations ago... but they are getting pretty far from what is considered a "car" nowadays.
@@iancole85rich people have their own museums.
I think alot of us were at first disappointed with the numbers, however it was actually pretty good when you dive in.
Something to remember about this year, was just how poor Bonhams did...
They did just barely over 11M....thats not profit...thats TOTAL sales of $11M....previous years they did regularly over 50M.
ALL of the other houses did either near the same or BETTER than previous years...
If Bonhams could have just got close to previous years, it would have been closer to a $430M weekend which would be the second highest ever.
Porsche 997.2 GTS coupes have spiked significantly in the last 60 days. Always enjoy your videos John.
The opposite of 992 GT3RS prices that have dropped about $100K in the same period. The BAT prices for those cars are in the mid $300K now.
Most need their engines rebuilt, even if they have had regular maintenance. Porches from the 80’s are less maintenance intensive.
@@bngr_bngr No sir, you are dead wrong. The 997.2 GTS has Porsche’s bulletproof 9A1 engine. The old air cooled engines were the ones that needed to be rebuilt after 100,000 miles.
did anyone get a pic of the Ruf? Not gonna lie, I'm a little obsessed after the track day video.... and not JUST because of her. LOL
It’s not so much a drop in prices but more of a realistic correction
Wait for interest rates to drop. Prices will increase again.
I reviewed all of the auction results and it was a BLOODBATH!! Mecum 41.4m unsold!! RMSothebys 66m unsold!!! Gooding 93m unsold!! Bonhams 19m unsold!!
I agree. 80s and 90s is the new real market
Those cars just are not at the manufacturing level of older cars. Buy pre 80’s.
Much more than 40 years ago. I went to my first car week in 1982, when Porsche was the featured marque. Monterey car week was already a long established tradition back then.
Monterey is car Mecca no matter what. It is the globally premier shows for all things automotive, and absolutely world class. Nothing even comes close to what car week offers. So happy to live here on the central coast.
Life goal. One day I will buy a car from Curated. You guys are simply THE experts especially when it comes to collectible cars!
Wasn't that LM002 result out of this world? It not only broke the old record but smashed it by nearly double
I grew up in the 90s looking at em in the dupont registry, knowing that they were not only a bargain but also one of the most special vehicles ever built. Ten year old me was fascinated by a military off roader built by the exotic car maker of dreams.
its simple: just like my dad appreciated the cars my grandfather bought but would never buy them for him self . so was i 15 years ago in the same boat ...aka...i liked my dads collection but sold all to buy and fill my garage w. cars i fancied. Now 5-6 years ago i took my ( late teens at the time ) kids to PB barrett jackson and each had to pick one car to buy for them self .....WHAT A EYE OPENER .... . well shortly after i started selling 3/4 of my collection and bought cars my kids wanted ........ turns out one of the best financial / investment decision ! i am still looking for cars for my self but i rather have a higher mile example that i can worry free enjoy then the mint garage / trailer queen like a chased in years past. PS: few years ago i bought back my dads GTS pantera ...not for sale ! my son loves it and will be the next custodian of it !
I turned down a low mileage Diablo VT for 180k 😢… but I did buy 430 Scud! Loved the episode ❤
Think about how much it would cost to bring up a VT to show level.
When I was a kid there was a tired Lamborghini Miura for sale on a used car lot nearby for $20k. More than my lawn mowing business could support unfortunately. The year was 1977 Los Angeles and you could buy a small home for what that old car was priced at.
Great stuff as always. Having followed auctions for 35 years, I always wondered how auctions have conditioned us not to mention premium/fees. The buyer is paying much more than the hammer price always mentioned. Since first attending BJ in 1989, I think I have witnessed 3 gens of traders. Currently the Gen Xers are trading, hence the decades you mentioned.
Despite the 250 SWB Cal disappointment, it still went for $17m. It maybe softer but it’s certainly not soft
Tom Hartley has better cars for sales. Plus disclosing the ghost Ferrari GTO is huge.
What leather is on the Eames chair? It’s gorgeous
There's a great video from Porsche Club of America about that yellow 993 speedster. It took 3 years to do and the bespoke color is named after the owner's dog: Otto Yellow.
Those cars are trash. They are not Porsches. Originality will always bring long term value.
Love your taste in chairs!
Hopefully the investors movement is moving away from the 60s and back in time, that would make the way for those who are truly passionate for interesting cars of the past. That's in fact what happened with the Nethercutt collection, which is formed with cars which were bought in times when they had no financial value.
For me it's not just the money, it's also the history, the 80s and 90s are wonderful (I was born in 1982), but at least for me, the truly interesting history is the cars from the 60s and backwards down to the origins of the automobile and that is how my car collection would be formed if possible.
Let's hope for a future with collectors passionate for history as well and not just investors.
I want to say that agreed the 80's and 90's is truly the highest in reliability and quality. Let's not forget about that these new cars rat you out of you get caught being a naughty person.
Fuel injection is something you really can daily compared to carbureted. -IMO
Thankfully I was just ahead of the curb on purchases. And being able to afford the maintenance.
Be aware of old cars. They will always need something. I will always say this.
It truly does not matter the mileage on a vehicle. Maintenance records are Key.
Please again have maintenance records. Do have someone look over the vehicle before purchasing. Including a dealership.
God speed and God bless
Always ALWAYS POSITIVE THE BEST OF THE BEST ALMOST 100,000 Subscriber Mark ... an early congratulations.:!!!
It would be great if manufacturers started building restomods of their older models. Or at least something like Aston Martin Works. Hopefully not too many limited "special" editions so they don't end up costing millions of dollars each.
Great video as always.Thx.
Another point about the older classic cars vs the more modern classics is that the people who has/had the knowledge to work on those & maintain etc aint so many across the world & buyers dont want to lets say...struggle to keep those older classics going/fixing. I see this on a daily basis as I build/restore cars for a living & hotrods/kustoms too.
Parts are also another factor when you come to the older than 70's classics. Whats your thoughts on this? Thx
well done as always gents. always look forward to new content
Hey John it was great to meet you at Quail. I have the 2008 gallardo superleggara
Great to hear your opinions and reactions on this. Is it safe to say that 70-80s classic cars are somewhat safe from now on from rising in value? Im talking about Ferrari 308s, Alfa Romeos and Mercedes from that period, etc. Maybe the classic car market leaped over them already?
Value goes down and all the “Investors” jump ship. This is great. Should be enthusiasts anyway.
This is great news for people looking to get started.
Spot on boys. I'm 54 and started collecting 911's when they were $10-15K. Why? Because they were useable and I lusted for one after driving one once when I was 16. OK, Risky Business might have had a factor in it too. Never interested in anything pre-war. About go through a Pagoda out of a garage and running that's been sitting forever. But that's close to my birth year and so fun to drive and useable. Sub'd.
great foresight! Welcome to the channel
Counterpoint: Mecum Kissimmee & Barrett had record years. Definitely agree that youngers buyers are stepping up!
I think the bottom line is that the new generation of collectors are coming in and they don’t want the older cars. There will still be a market for them but this will decline overtime.
I do feel that the cars like the CGT Murcie etc will hit a point and either the bubble will burst or they will just level off either way it’s crazy values for them right now.
I agree about the amount of 911 restomods is silly now
Newer cars will just not have the value of the older cars. They won’t increase in value except for very few special order cars.
I recently sold my three Nissan 240sx’s one s13 fully built ls2/t56 sold that for $27k could of got more. but to my huge surprise my 1993 s13 convertible stock 60k mile sold for 18k paid 3k for it 10 years ago. My 1995 s14 stock 80k mile sold for 21k I paid 3500 11 years ago. Yes these all were really nice cars but yes I would say the market has definitely changed our generation is ready to collect and it’s the cars of our youth.
Love from Australia it may feel like we’re under a rock but we’re very savvy on a beautiful looking car❤
You should do a weekly podcast ( if you can find the time )
Younger rich tech dudes don't "get" paying $10mm for a 1960's car with 290HP. They gravitate to the bedroom-poster supercars of their childhood. Most collectible markets change over time with the demographics of the buyers. Except for art.
80S AND 90S IS THE MOVE. SHOCK THAT RED 560SL SOLD FOR $200,000 PLUS.
80’s and 90’s cars need more maintenance than older cars. My choice would be any pre-80’s Ferrari, Lamborghini, or Porsche.
I love watching rich people lose money on bad investments! I went to Pebble once and the level of pure snottiness was a 10. Jay Leno was the only down to earth person attending.
Can you imagine what's going to happen to the 288 GTO?
US market vs European market is interesting different… but indeed youngtimers have the future which is also logical looking at the current 35-45 years money makers.
please draw attention away from 550s until i can buy one.
I think that the ship has sailed on that one unfortunately. Has always been one of my favorite Ferrari's.
@@davids8493 likewise.. and yeah, I'll take a high milage and beat up example of a 550 any day. As the market shows, that may be my only option the day I'm able to buy.
@@vicabbate I have one that is a 1:18 scale diecast model and I live vicariously through it. 😁 It's as close as I am ever going to get.
@@vicabbate you can take lessons from Ed Bolian on how to find one. 😁
@@davids8493 if you want it, you'll achieve it. Keep pushing.. thats my mentality.
I was following the Gooding & Co auction... the cars were just not selling. The bidding was so far off. Cars were rolling off the block back to the storage lot.... It was a shocking disappointment frankly.
People buy the car either a parent/family friend/poster they fancied once they have disposable income, usually in their 50’s. Hence cars from the 1970’s-90’s are now popular and the latter years of that span will only get more popular. Cars from the 1950’-60’s their owners and those that lusted for them are sadly passing away. Their children are inheriting their cars. Most have no interest in them but feel guilty about selling them. So they’ll sit and deteriorate until they are eventually sold. 1950-60’s cars face more sellers than buyers, same as cars,from before that era. Sure Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston etc may defy gravity but for 95% of the classic market, the above applies. The other big hurdle for classic cars is the mechanics are aging too and leaving the trade, so either the owners fixes it or it becomes very expensive at current labour rates to fix cars. Most classic cars are not in the $100k and above range where money is no object but in the sub $50k range.
If I am spending$700k on a car, I really don’t give a flying …. If it is down 8%, that’s the cost of my annum maintenance if I actually drive it.
Don't forget to use your turn signals
Any manual cars will go up at some point just my thoughts
Cant wait til the wave moves in to the 2000s. Would love to see a Salen XP8 go for 7 figures
My takeaway is to start purchasing first-Bush-Term early 2000's models now.
As usual, once the people who were in high school when the car was cool are old enough to be rich, the value of those cars skyrockets.
Spot on.
I was a little offended that you referred to the Touring Veloce12 as a "restomod", it dishonors Touring as one of the pillars of automotive antiquity. 😒
What and When is this event in Miami ?
Do you think manual Ferrari 612s will sky rocket in value, soon? Such an awesome car: gated manual, 4 seats, RWD..
We saw very high modern Porsche prices (1990s-) and weak prices for the 60s Ferraris...There is indeed a new generation. Even the Cobra's were weak...
The market represents the buyers. Young buyers dont want a car that they have to wrestle to start up or drive. We want turn key ready vehicles that DONT BREAK DOWN. Also CarPlay, working AC, bluetooth, power windows.
Thoughts on LP Lamborghini Gallardo’s? Debating picking one up. Not necessarily looking to make money on it but do you think it’ll hold its value? Seems like I’ll be paying around 135k - 145k for a decent single clutch car.
From the jump, I knew that you guys would focus on super oddball cars that are bringing still big numbers which is not reflective of the overall market. I think it’s a little misleading with the title. I do feel like the bigger story here is that the people that have the money, are buying their “dream cars”. And a lot of the guys that want the stuff from the 50s and 60s are dead or dying. so the huge appeal to that generation doesn’t carryover to the new generation. You’re seeing it in a muscle car market like crazy.
So I'm 39, I love old school muscle. I'd love to have a judge or a second gen formula so I say this with respect. 90% of those cars were dogs in stock form, like modern mini van performance dogs. People buy nostalgia, for me 90's JDM, viper, diablo,911,Vanquish, 4th gen camaro/trans am.
Hey, were you please with where the 500SEC AMG 6.0 sold at on Cars and Bids? I thought that was a good price it sold for.
If you love money and already have lots of rare cars prices going up is good news. But if you love cars prices going down is good news, because you can buy more and the ones you already have will be kept for life anyway.
Mclaren F1 and CLK will be the biggest gainers in the coming years
Add in the Zonda
I think a lot of people are not at all excited about all this hybrid and electric cars and they are hanging on to their real super cars V-10 V-12. I hate the new v-8 lambo horrible
i believe the ferrari 599 gtb, models in the not so distant future will be the next cars to go up in value
Yup. The older guys are getting dead so the older cars that used to get bid up (pre WWII) are cooling off and the tech/bitcoin bros are moving in and buying the cars they played on video games in their youth. They buy for passion more than investment so they bid up beyond market and set new comps.
This may be oversimplifying things but I'll go with it for now: smart money is getting out of luxury goods
The release of hybrid supercars with smaller engines is forcing older big motor exotics to be more desired
The Gull wings ...yeah Hoovies just did a video and made the Gullwings look like the market is getting sad at just over 1 million sale prices ...BUT ..... Bring a Trailer just closed one yesterday at 1.8 mil.. Long live the King
Hi! I am trying to value my late father's Porsche for selling purposes. He has a 1988, 911 Cabriolet, 12,824 miles. Any suggestions?
I think the generational shift has been coming for a while, pre-war and other cars from the 60s and older don't have the buyers who had passion for them around or the numbers are shrinking as they age and die. Younger car guys and gals obviously have passion for cars they grew up with and that showed at Monterey this past week. And yeah, the hyper car market is still on fire. There at some point could be too many and some of the new, not well established brands might not make it. As for 911 resto mods, they are out of control.
Please cover the wider market - Ferraris Lambos and Porsches gets tiring.
This would better be titled "What's happening in the Investor car market". 90% of the reason for buying is to generate a return. Because they are chattles, in most countries, gains aren't subject to tax (as long as you're not a dealer). It's the same for the art market. Or the watch market. Or the wine market. Transportable, insurable, global market, no tax. Simple.
i h8 the 4rn community. theres somebody lookin like him. thought it was him😅. i was so sad. i was being like. how could a very cool guy and rich is involved on such occasion😔🤔. thank god dawg thank god. if i be at american. that p4rnstar guy. in big touble.
Love a 550
Is 2.4 million an acceptable price for the F40 that sold at Broad Arrow Auctions?
Was down in Miami’s for a cruise and really wanted to stop by and look! But didn’t
A bit random chaps, but Love the chairs!
I think the car market is making a correction. But....I predicted this a few episodes ago. I said that cars that were actually drivable and collectible would be the imes that are going up. The Ferrari 365, 430, Aventador, 458, Diablo, and Porsche. You can find my comment from when you first did this and see what I predicted and if I was right. You can use my post to make a video..I won't be offended by being wrong. On most I think I'm right,
People want cars that they can collect and drive. Nuff said.
Is it just me or are these guys confusing a generational shift with a market bubble. They said real money, but real old money knows the market is in a recession hence why they are not buying their generation of 50s and 60s cars. While the younger get rich quick or social media kids that are my age are the ones overpaying in a bubble. Give it another year or two and the younger generation of cars price will fall drastically in my opinion. The smart money is starting to sell while the quick money generation are the only ones buying.
Daytona prices have been coming down significantly over the past 12 months.
What’s with the frame rate?
In the meantime, the average working man has had his salary and earning power cut in half. They can’t afford to buy a home or a car. Yet in these times, the Uber wealthy continue to thrive, and in fact are more more absorbing the wealth from the now nonexistent middle-class. We live in dark and disgusting times.
We are in a recession boys...
Next time you guys make a video, don’t use swivel chairs. Just a thought.
Great
You are not car guys, you are dealers. It’s not about the $.
Real collectors don’t sell 😂
Every election year the market is down 10-15 %, look back …
All these manual transmission cars are going to be a problem for the next gen. Most of the next gen don't care or want to even know how to shift. They grew up on paddle shifters in video games. I grew up on "Spy Hunter" where you had to shift low to high. We are not the same. LOL
Newer money for the 80s and 90s love, a generation passing on and the fact that the economy ain't doing to hot with an election that will swing the next political era.
The California SWB didn’t sell because at that price it should be in original colors. Red on black is BORING.