It was because they were always incompatible. Super Saiyan was built off rage and Kaioken required focus and peace of mind. It wasn't until Blue that Super Saiyan changed in a way that allowed him to combine the two. More so, the Super Saiyan transformations are more powerful and less dangerous than the Kaioken, so it became replaced for all purposes until the Tournament of Power.
“It wasn't until Blue that Super Saiyan changed in a way that allowed him to combine the two” I don’t buy that, before the Cell games Goku was able to achieve a resting Super Saiyan state. From there, if he didn’t put his money on Gohan to beat Cell, the next logical step is to put thr Kaioken ontop of that.
@@ssjseifer I hear you, but seeing him completely relaxed sleeping on that field in the anime before Krilian tossed that rock at him. I can just see him putting a Kaioken onto of the base SS. He surely would have that much self-control.
No, kaioken would kill goku without ki control, if you leak any energy you DIE. goku had to go through whis's time room where you can only go in when you don't leak any ki. After learning to control ki he was able to control kaioken.
your theory about 10x kamehameha makes sense because in the time before end of z + the time between end of z and gt, he's had plenty of time to theorize new uses for his various abilities and power ups, so he could have contemplated how unreasonable it is to expect his body to take that damage and resolved to only use it for ki blasts.
He didn’t ….. he literally used kaoiken x20 on top of super saiyan blue . And in GT he was literally a child ; he might have been using all his energy maintaining the manifestation of his adult body .
Can't respond to a removed comment, seems like you realized you were wrong and removed it yoursellf since if youtube did, it wouldn't show in my feed, as the saying goes "a wise man will change his mind"
Kiaoken is a form by itself before Super Sayian and around that time if he did he would become a Super Sayian God…. It was too early for that…I’m an OG DB/ DBZ/ DBGT fan ‘93 baby, Super not to much but they needed something new for the new viewer’s , I just wished they continued the forms after SS4 because that’s all we looked up and drew as kids…. Today kids will never know 😢
People also forget that he needs to focus and be in control of the amplified ki of the kaioken. So when he gets hit he usually loses that focus and takes extra damage from that
My theory is that Kaioken traumatized Goku and his body to the point he couldn't do it even if he wanted, and it just resulted in a SSJ transformation. Because Kaioken is hard on the body, whereas SSJ is his body doing it's thing.
I'm not gonna lie, Kaioken only got tossed to the side because I don't think the creators of the anime scoured every episode of every fight for details that may make sense in the future. Like how against Ginyu he used Kaioken to power up to a certain point and then maintained it after disabling it. Because it wouldn't make sense for him to be bluffing by using Kaioken to fake his full power then powering down for Ginyu to swap bodies because Goku had no clue he could do that, and the lowest multiplier of Kaioken I'm pretty sure is X2, and Goku properly dropped out of Kaioken before Ginyu gave Jeice the scouter right before his body change. Thusly Ginyu would've spotted the drop in power right? I hope this theory proves interesting.
Kaoiken ki is different from super Saiyan ki not just is amount but where it stems from. Kaio ken is treated like life force similar to that of Tien Tri Beam. This is why it used only in burst vs a sustained form. It is clear that from a writing standpoint it doesn't make sense to add Kaiken to SSJ4 as there contrasting energy types, so it doesn't flow in a story. With Blue Goku had perfect ki control supposedly so that he could further use life energy to temp amp that form as needed. Blue seems to be the base form for whatever the franchise seems to want to do.
This is probably the point of the video but I don’t have time to watch it right now. Goku didn’t forget Kaioken, he just had no practical application to use it. The multiplier puts a strain upon the body the higher you go. Goku’s body was already going through something new since he unlocked Super Saiyan. In fact, you realize that it took Goku nearly six years to fully master Super Saiyan. Before that, the Kaioken would be incompatible with Super Saiyan’s rage requirements. Of course the argument can be made that once Goku emerged from the time chamber as a fully mastered super saiyan, his calm demeanor could allow kaioken to activate. In fact, I think that’s what Goku’s endgame was- to use their remaining time to train with kaioken on top of SSJ. But then he saw Gohan’s hidden power and changed his plan.
This has been my (and my friends’) theory since the Cell Saga originally aired. Goku was working on overcoming the emotions of Super Saiyan to be able to stack Kaioken to defeat Cell. However, where I disagree personally is I don’t think he actually could have stacked them at that point in the story. While he’s definitely calm when he’s walking around, I’ve always felt it was more likely once he was fighting for his life as a super saiyan he wasn’t able to maintain that same level of calm required for the technique. Basically, I’d argue just because he was used to walking around in that form doesn’t mean he was used to fighting for his life in that form. Now, when Goku and Gohan were on their pre-Cell Games Vacation, could Goku have combined them? Probably. I just don’t think he would have been able to fighting Cell, or we would have seen it in the fight. I think he went into the fight with the intention of killing Cell, as evidenced when he blew him in half. I think through the fight he realized he wasn’t going to be able to stack them. And only then did he truly fall back on Plan B, which was to show Gohan how Cell fought and tap out for the stronger person to finish him. But that’s just my opinion on what happened. Either way, I agree Goku’s plan was stacking Kaioken and Super Saiyan to bridge the gap.
Here's a thought: what if Goku's 10x Kamehameha was him using the Kaoiken in a more mastered way by applying it to the ki going out into a technique. Idk, that just makes sense to me. Edit: Lol, you thought the same thing.
It was explained by Goku himself in Super that he knew trying to combine Kaioken with SSJ would almost certainly kill him more or less immediately. The less said about GT's writing, the better. That aside; SSJ4, whatever it actually is in totality, has SSJ in its structure and that is just outright incompatible with Kaioken without the ki control necessary to enter SSJG.
Hot damn I'm barely even listening to the video. I'm just gawking at all the badass SSJ4 pictures lol. This has to become Super canon and only Broly/Goku/Vegeta can obtain it due to them being purebloods. 🔥🔥🔥
I mean... it kind of was a big part of his fights starting with his first fight against Hit, in Super - which I think was still the first season - if not it would have been the second.
@@contrivedmce That is not even in the tournament of power he doesn't want to use kaioken as much cause it drains too much energy again proving my point
Kaioken was retired in Z after SSJ arrived and at the time we all assumed Kaioken wouldn’t improve SSJ the same way ultra gohan wouldn’t profit from SSJ transformation.
The biggest offense to me is that Goku or King Kai didn't teach the Kaioken to any of the human z-fighters, which could have made them relevant to the the story again instead of fodder.
Goku a saiyan and it wrecked his body initially vs vegeta. The humans would be damaged a lot and not sure they’d ever get use to it due to the recovery window, even with senzu beans because they likely have to learn to control it delicately. They wouldn’t get use to it as they aren’t saiyan
@@GabeM2 It's like Gohan's "musenco haa" move, gohan was born with that technique, Dragons fist is Goku's own original technique. He property unlocked it while training in otherworld but happen off screen.
Kaioken is a trump card. It is designed to increase the power output, but it can be at a risk. I remember Kaioken being equated to muscles, the greater the output required the greater the strain. I think Goku scared himself when he went x10, which made him think harder before using it when required. He probably scared himself in Super after SSJ Blue Kaioken. Kid Goku (GT) would probably have a hard time using it, hos body is not developed to use it. SSJ4 Goku probably had a hard time focusing enough to effectively use Kaioken, like Goku can't use Spirit Bomb at any SSJ level. It takes a lot of focus to supress the Great Ape personality, which Goku told Pan. Kaioken also goes against his need and desire to grow stronger in his base form. I also don't remember King Kai being in GT, if at all. I know he got a lot of love in Super and in the following season King Kai could be well utilised.
Because without ki control kaioken would kill you, whis trained goku to not leak energy so that he can stack it with super saiyan in god ki. Without whis time chamber training goku would just die if you power up that far.
He didn't ✌🏾forget✌🏾 Kaioken after Z lol. To keep this comment as concise as possible, let's start here: the ending of Z is the Buu saga...right before the Buu saga is the Android saga. During the Android saga, Goku was out with his heart condition. His heart condition came from his overuse of Kaioken throughout the series and movies. In Mirai (Future) Trunks timeline, Goku died before they found a way to re-strengthen his heart, hence him going back in time to when Goku is still healthy to save him from the impending heart attack. He didn't forget about Kaioken, he just stopped using it because it's literally a divine gift and as strong as he was, he wasn't strong enough to repetitively handle divine energy during Z............and tho he was dead during most of the Buu saga, the more energy he burned the quicker he'd return back to the dead, which is why he held off on using SSJ3 vs Vegeta. When he was granted life again he didn't use it because again, Kaioken is "divine" and he'd just got a chance at being alive again. Goku is remedial as hell, but he ain't stupid. He used it a couple times after achieving SSJG during Toyotaro's run...Super is definitely after Z...but he stopped using it prior because of the consequences and chances he received during the end of Z 👌🏾
Goku: "Triple Kaio-ken attack!" Powering up ×3 = 24,000 Goku x3 Kaio-Ken: "Now. Kamehameha! KAME.HA.ME." Vegeta: "LET'S SEE WHAT YOU GOT KAKAROT. GALIC GUN, FIRE!!" Goku x3 kaio-ken: "HA!!!!!!"
I mean with Mr Fusion & TFS both going over GT currently, GT has bigger issues. Ive said GT was GARBAGE for years after watching dub & sub but yea it is trash
Thank you that circle in the thumbnail was Very VERY useful
Troll 😂
@@slimernizer101 " troll 😂"-slimernizer101
The real reason why goku didn't use the kaioken in GT was because the writers forgot about the technique or simply didn't care.
It was because they were always incompatible. Super Saiyan was built off rage and Kaioken required focus and peace of mind. It wasn't until Blue that Super Saiyan changed in a way that allowed him to combine the two. More so, the Super Saiyan transformations are more powerful and less dangerous than the Kaioken, so it became replaced for all purposes until the Tournament of Power.
“It wasn't until Blue that Super Saiyan changed in a way that allowed him to combine the two”
I don’t buy that, before the Cell games Goku was able to achieve a resting Super Saiyan state. From there, if he didn’t put his money on Gohan to beat Cell, the next logical step is to put thr Kaioken ontop of that.
@@themister.s-1st The basic transformation is still fueled by rage. Even if it is a calm rage, which generally speaking, are all the more terrifying.
@@ssjseifer I hear you, but seeing him completely relaxed sleeping on that field in the anime before Krilian tossed that rock at him. I can just see him putting a Kaioken onto of the base SS. He surely would have that much self-control.
No, kaioken would kill goku without ki control, if you leak any energy you DIE.
goku had to go through whis's time room where you can only go in when you don't leak any ki. After learning to control ki he was able to control kaioken.
He didn't forget it
Imagine the androids having Kaioken. Two words, simply broken.
0 in 5 sec is crazy but i got you
1:57 No, SSG is the pinnacle. No wait, it’s SSB. No wait, it’s UI. No wait…
your theory about 10x kamehameha makes sense because in the time before end of z + the time between end of z and gt, he's had plenty of time to theorize new uses for his various abilities and power ups, so he could have contemplated how unreasonable it is to expect his body to take that damage and resolved to only use it for ki blasts.
Its very smart to do that and makes sense for gt goku hes rather smart outside of the super 17 fight
He didn’t ….. he literally used kaoiken x20 on top of super saiyan blue .
And in GT he was literally a child ; he might have been using all his energy maintaining the manifestation of his adult body .
Right I was just thinking that He uses it all the Time to Buff SS Blue.
While the author may have said DBS is canon it certainly isn't within DBZ itself so
@@Ebani the title clearly says after dragon ball z …. Goodness
@@itz_akuma DBS is supposed to happen in the middle of it, tell me you have no idea about the series without telling me
Can't respond to a removed comment, seems like you realized you were wrong and removed it yoursellf since if youtube did, it wouldn't show in my feed, as the saying goes "a wise man will change his mind"
Kiaoken is a form by itself before Super Sayian and around that time if he did he would become a Super Sayian God…. It was too early for that…I’m an OG DB/ DBZ/ DBGT fan ‘93 baby, Super not to much but they needed something new for the new viewer’s , I just wished they continued the forms after SS4 because that’s all we looked up and drew as kids…. Today kids will never know 😢
It was the circle for me 😂 love this channel
People also forget that he needs to focus and be in control of the amplified ki of the kaioken. So when he gets hit he usually loses that focus and takes extra damage from that
My theory is that Kaioken traumatized Goku and his body to the point he couldn't do it even if he wanted, and it just resulted in a SSJ transformation. Because Kaioken is hard on the body, whereas SSJ is his body doing it's thing.
Because Toriyama was tired of thinking about numbers.
I'm not gonna lie, Kaioken only got tossed to the side because I don't think the creators of the anime scoured every episode of every fight for details that may make sense in the future. Like how against Ginyu he used Kaioken to power up to a certain point and then maintained it after disabling it. Because it wouldn't make sense for him to be bluffing by using Kaioken to fake his full power then powering down for Ginyu to swap bodies because Goku had no clue he could do that, and the lowest multiplier of Kaioken I'm pretty sure is X2, and Goku properly dropped out of Kaioken before Ginyu gave Jeice the scouter right before his body change. Thusly Ginyu would've spotted the drop in power right? I hope this theory proves interesting.
Kaoiken ki is different from super Saiyan ki not just is amount but where it stems from. Kaio ken is treated like life force similar to that of Tien Tri Beam. This is why it used only in burst vs a sustained form. It is clear that from a writing standpoint it doesn't make sense to add Kaiken to SSJ4 as there contrasting energy types, so it doesn't flow in a story. With Blue Goku had perfect ki control supposedly so that he could further use life energy to temp amp that form as needed. Blue seems to be the base form for whatever the franchise seems to want to do.
It will be touched on 1 of these days
Goku SSJ4 in GT : Kaioken X10!!!!!
GT writers : NANI!!!!!!!!
Don’t forget. Goku had 0 training with SSJ4. If he did then we all know what will happen
This is probably the point of the video but I don’t have time to watch it right now.
Goku didn’t forget Kaioken, he just had no practical application to use it.
The multiplier puts a strain upon the body the higher you go. Goku’s body was already going through something new since he unlocked Super Saiyan.
In fact, you realize that it took Goku nearly six years to fully master Super Saiyan. Before that, the Kaioken would be incompatible with Super Saiyan’s rage requirements.
Of course the argument can be made that once Goku emerged from the time chamber as a fully mastered super saiyan, his calm demeanor could allow kaioken to activate.
In fact, I think that’s what Goku’s endgame was- to use their remaining time to train with kaioken on top of SSJ.
But then he saw Gohan’s hidden power and changed his plan.
This has been my (and my friends’) theory since the Cell Saga originally aired. Goku was working on overcoming the emotions of Super Saiyan to be able to stack Kaioken to defeat Cell.
However, where I disagree personally is I don’t think he actually could have stacked them at that point in the story. While he’s definitely calm when he’s walking around, I’ve always felt it was more likely once he was fighting for his life as a super saiyan he wasn’t able to maintain that same level of calm required for the technique. Basically, I’d argue just because he was used to walking around in that form doesn’t mean he was used to fighting for his life in that form.
Now, when Goku and Gohan were on their pre-Cell Games Vacation, could Goku have combined them? Probably. I just don’t think he would have been able to fighting Cell, or we would have seen it in the fight.
I think he went into the fight with the intention of killing Cell, as evidenced when he blew him in half. I think through the fight he realized he wasn’t going to be able to stack them. And only then did he truly fall back on Plan B, which was to show Gohan how Cell fought and tap out for the stronger person to finish him.
But that’s just my opinion on what happened. Either way, I agree Goku’s plan was stacking Kaioken and Super Saiyan to bridge the gap.
Here's a thought: what if Goku's 10x Kamehameha was him using the Kaoiken in a more mastered way by applying it to the ki going out into a technique. Idk, that just makes sense to me.
Edit: Lol, you thought the same thing.
Totally agree with this. Gt goku is a genius afterall.
Awesome Thumbnail💯
Why didn't goku use kaioken with SSJ grade 4 if it was perfected
He did against paikuhan/ pikkon
Great video Bro 😎
It was explained by Goku himself in Super that he knew trying to combine Kaioken with SSJ would almost certainly kill him more or less immediately.
The less said about GT's writing, the better. That aside; SSJ4, whatever it actually is in totality, has SSJ in its structure and that is just outright incompatible with Kaioken without the ki control necessary to enter SSJG.
It's a stamina drainer/energy drainer for sure it definitely would've been to risky for him to use it then especially in GOKU TIME (GT)
Hot damn I'm barely even listening to the video. I'm just gawking at all the badass SSJ4 pictures lol. This has to become Super canon and only Broly/Goku/Vegeta can obtain it due to them being purebloods. 🔥🔥🔥
I mean... it kind of was a big part of his fights starting with his first fight against Hit, in Super - which I think was still the first season - if not it would have been the second.
Kaioken is two risky thats why obviously
I said that I put to much strain on his body.. but he got stronger so would it still?
@@41bengalIt's not always that simple kaioken is risky like when he tried to use hit on Vegeta and it mainly back fired duh
@@nevadalotto560 that is because he wasn't accustomed to kaioken then but he has cleared used it dozens of times in super with no repercussions
@@contrivedmce That is not even in the tournament of power he doesn't want to use kaioken as much cause it drains too much energy again proving my point
@@nevadalotto560He did use kaioken in the tournament of power he used it like a large amount of times
Kaioken was retired in Z after SSJ arrived and at the time we all assumed Kaioken wouldn’t improve SSJ the same way ultra gohan wouldn’t profit from SSJ transformation.
The biggest offense to me is that Goku or King Kai didn't teach the Kaioken to any of the human z-fighters, which could have made them relevant to the the story again instead of fodder.
Goku a saiyan and it wrecked his body initially vs vegeta. The humans would be damaged a lot and not sure they’d ever get use to it due to the recovery window, even with senzu beans because they likely have to learn to control it delicately. They wouldn’t get use to it as they aren’t saiyan
None of them were taught the genki-dama tho
Where does the power of the dragon fist come from? 🤔
It must be Goku's own technique. It's the only one he never learn from anyone else.
@@AndreMalone-wp8vq
Yeah. I don't remember exactly when but I think it's a move he learned in other wold with SSJ3
@@GabeM2 It's like Gohan's "musenco haa" move, gohan was born with that technique, Dragons fist is Goku's own original technique. He property unlocked it while training in otherworld but happen off screen.
@@AndreMalone-wp8vqmasenko is from piccolo
@@kuru-yami9416 ?
Yes, my daily DBZ slop.
Thank you very much.
can you visit SCOTLAND ?
Why does it feel like I already watched this a few months ago?
Under 10 min gang
Guys his shoulder has nothing to do with this video
didn't he use it when he was fighting Hit in DB Super?
Kaioken is a trump card. It is designed to increase the power output, but it can be at a risk.
I remember Kaioken being equated to muscles, the greater the output required the greater the strain.
I think Goku scared himself when he went x10, which made him think harder before using it when required. He probably scared himself in Super after SSJ Blue Kaioken.
Kid Goku (GT) would probably have a hard time using it, hos body is not developed to use it. SSJ4 Goku probably had a hard time focusing enough to effectively use Kaioken, like Goku can't use Spirit Bomb at any SSJ level. It takes a lot of focus to supress the Great Ape personality, which Goku told Pan.
Kaioken also goes against his need and desire to grow stronger in his base form.
I also don't remember King Kai being in GT, if at all. I know he got a lot of love in Super and in the following season King Kai could be well utilised.
Because without ki control kaioken would kill you, whis trained goku to not leak energy so that he can stack it with super saiyan in god ki.
Without whis time chamber training goku would just die if you power up that far.
He didn’t forget it he uses it in super
Goku forgot Kaioken because he popped a shoulder vein
You never mentioned x 20.. 🤔
Did you see the trailer of Baby making it to Dragon Ball the breakers?
Yeah man! Gonna give it a try?
@@SaiyanScholar I don't have the game
Wow uploaded 7h ago. Anyways i really like base form goku and also like Kai o Ken.
At the higher level would be probably way too much
Na you are right the 10x is the kiokan blast it’s obvious because the color
He didn't ✌🏾forget✌🏾 Kaioken after Z lol. To keep this comment as concise as possible, let's start here: the ending of Z is the Buu saga...right before the Buu saga is the Android saga.
During the Android saga, Goku was out with his heart condition. His heart condition came from his overuse of Kaioken throughout the series and movies. In Mirai (Future) Trunks timeline, Goku died before they found a way to re-strengthen his heart, hence him going back in time to when Goku is still healthy to save him from the impending heart attack.
He didn't forget about Kaioken, he just stopped using it because it's literally a divine gift and as strong as he was, he wasn't strong enough to repetitively handle divine energy during Z............and tho he was dead during most of the Buu saga, the more energy he burned the quicker he'd return back to the dead, which is why he held off on using SSJ3 vs Vegeta. When he was granted life again he didn't use it because again, Kaioken is "divine" and he'd just got a chance at being alive again. Goku is remedial as hell, but he ain't stupid.
He used it a couple times after achieving SSJG during Toyotaro's run...Super is definitely after Z...but he stopped using it prior because of the consequences and chances he received during the end of Z 👌🏾
Super is not after Z hence the title lol
🔥
forgot about zenkai boosts hm
GT wasn't canon, but he did use it again in Super
Super is not after Z. GT is the official sequel to Z because Toei said so.
That wasn't canon either
@@SaiyanScholar when did that happen?
They made it officially as the sequel. The burden is on you to quote when they SAID it's NOT.
@@SaiyanScholar So is Super officially a prequel to GT?
Goku: "Triple Kaio-ken attack!"
Powering up ×3 = 24,000
Goku x3 Kaio-Ken: "Now. Kamehameha! KAME.HA.ME."
Vegeta: "LET'S SEE WHAT YOU GOT KAKAROT. GALIC GUN, FIRE!!"
Goku x3 kaio-ken: "HA!!!!!!"
...what
@@FN64Productions I used the quotes from the original dragon ball Z battle between Goku Vs Vegeta (Ocean dub is the best version) or (Funimation dub)
@kamenrangerzeo8251 yeah I know...but...why tho...
@@FN64Productions Nostalgia
Um he definitely used it in the tournament of power lol
Title says after Z lol
Kai o What?
Ultra instinct Kaioken X1000
? He use kaioken many times after z dude pay atention jesus loool
I'm early? damn
But gt isnt cannon. What about in super? UI goku with this technique vs Jiren?
Super is not after Z. GT is the official sequel after Z because Toei said so.
@@SaiyanScholar toei are irrelevant, their show is fan fiction.
I HATE DBGT BUT DB IN GENERAL DB LINE IS MY FAVORITE ANIME BUT STILL I HATE DBGT
Nobody asked
I mean with Mr Fusion & TFS both going over GT currently, GT has bigger issues.
Ive said GT was GARBAGE for years after watching dub & sub but yea it is trash
Wrong
@@kuru-yami9416 excuse you
29st