This really highlights an important difference between Goku and Vegeta: Vegeta was a warrior, Goku was a martial artist, and those are very different things
@@MegaSolidninjaGoku’s focus is on the art of fighting itself as a passion, whereas Vegeta is only focused on being the winner out of pride. Vegeta is attached to the outcome of the battle and this makes him rigid, whereas Goku isn’t and this gives him an edge
If we're ignoring the obvious, well plot had to happen, then I think it's not a case of talent or skill deficiency that prevented Vegeta from matching the same level of power of Goku and Gohan, but more a mindset issue. Goku and Gohan are both Earthlings and therefore they view skills and techniques as tools to improve and finetune. Vegeta is a Saiyan through and through who also grew up with his homeland's views and legends/folklore. He very well could of seen Super Saiyan as the pinnacle of Saiyan biology, a capstone of his people's history. So turning that power inward to work for him might of been a harder bottleneck to break through. It's very clear he relished the rush of emotions tied to the form and it's more symbolic representation to his people, which I think could of led to a subconscious effort to maintain it as is. Very simply he grew up being told Super Saiyan was the endgame, so it makes sense trying to imagine what would come after that would be harder for him. Goku would, and has never had, that kind of reservation. Because very early on in his martial arts journey he was taught by Master Roshi that there will always be a further horizon, and a more powerful fighter out there. Hell that was the entire plot of the first tournament arc in DB with Jackie Chun.
5:38 As effective as the training on Yardrat was, I'd say Goku's training on the Lookout with Kami and Mr Popo was what made the biggest difference to Goku. He came back from that a changed man. Sure, he'd grown up physically, but he'd made a massive leap mentally; being a lot more mature. He was a lot calmer, and more contained and in control. He'd learnt to focus more and meditate. Pretty sure Kami was the one to teach the Earthlings how to fully control and manipulate their ki; surpress it, sense it, power it up, etc. In contrast, the first time Vegeta ever trained was in preparation for the Androids. He had to figure it all out as he went along. Taking on board some things, but ignoring other things because his pride got in the way (not wanting to do something because Goku did it that way). Yet another example in Z of Vegeta's massive ego weighing him down and holding him back. Look at what Vegeta achieved during the 3 years training for the androids. Now imagine how much further along he would've been had he been training during the 1.5 - 2 years after Namek / before Frieza arrived on Earth. Even more so if he had a mentor like Kami.
In that case, Tien would technically be stronger than Vegeta if he were a saiyan because he'd be a much more strategic fighter because of his martial arts skills and knowledge of combat to surpass him in the hyperbolic time chamber.
@theblackprotagonist5936 negative sir, yes Gohans abilities is a factor but so is Goku's teaching. When Gohan 1st went ssj and he was struggling to maintain the form what did Goku tell Gohan? " you've got to calm down and try to focus your energy ". Was that not a teaching moment? Look at Broly all the power in the world but doesn't know how to control it.
Trunks should have trained with Piccolo second time around. Piccolo would have given him great training techniques plus he could keep up with Trunks, much better than going in by himself.
It is pretty clear that he needed a positive environment and just picking Vegeta alone just blocked chances of obtaining the state, Gohan picked his dad while was having a fun time with him so he was able to reach & get that form. Vegeta also still was evil deep down and showed this when giving up to Babidi to obtain Majin so with that root problem, MSSJ could not be obtained and as we see even after DBZ, he still does not have MSSJ.
I think both Vegeta & Trunks tried to follow the Mastering SS1 Grade 1 route (Inspired by Goku/Gohan) during their 2nd trip into the Room of Spirit and Time | Hyperbolic Time Chamber - but did not progress to the degree of Goku/Gohan. They seemed to completely abandon the Grade 2 form after the 2nd time entering the chamber. But I do believe that after their 2nd Time Chamber training, their standard SS1 forms surpassed their Grade 2 selves (Pre-2nd Time Chamber training).
I think that the big difference is that Goku discovered form 2 through acclimating to the base form perfectly and during training, feeling that there was something more only after seeing Gohan near the edge of that discovery. After witnessing Gohan's unlocking of form 2, Vegeta probably felt out that power, knew what it should be like and just discovered that mastery of base isn't a requirement, and out of pride worked to force the state by the means of just powering up to that level required needed without coaxing it out with finesse on emotions. It's sort of the same deal but different context/mechanics with how God ki was unlocked for him as opposed to how goku did it and their ultra powers, with Goku reigning his thoughts in and refining them even more, While Vegeta forces his form through tenacity yet again.
I think Goku had the right idea for the training, but with the time allowed he was not strong enough to take full advantage of the "mastered" super saiyan... this is why they left early and he wasn't worried about winning. He knew Gohan had already acheived that level and Cell was no longer a threat in his eyes. Thus, I'd have to imagine that any saiyan with higher potential than Goku, and his insight and training could have achieved the mastered super saiyan in a similar time... I don't know if Trunks or Vegetas mastery would have made much of a difference (like Goku) given just how much of a T-1000 Cell is, or Gohan's unprecidented latent ability... but I am convinced that if Trunks or Vegeta trained the way Goku and Gohan had they could have acheived grade 4.... ascending to ssj2 however would probably have taken longer- definitely at least for Vegeta, but probably Trunks as well... I like how it played out though, it left plenty of room for doubt and suspense after all. "why isn't Goku going back in? korin doesnt think hes strong enough" etc etc. I think at this point Vegeta may have still had too much to learn to get there, but if he had swallowed his pride and tried to learn, i do think he has greater potential than Goku, its more his philosopy that was holding him back
The real reason was that Vegeta and Goku took different approaches in their training Vegeta thought SS wasn’t enough, it needed to surpassed He ultimately thought upgrading it by channeling ki in his muscles would increase his power, making Ultra Grade Super Saiyan or Super Vegeta Trunks thought doing it more would surpass Cell Goku realized that Super Saiyan wasn’t complete, that it needed to be mastered by making it like their natural state, his training resulted in Mastered or Full Power Super Saiyan He didn’t need to upgrade Super Saiyan, only mastering it to a point there’s less Ki consumption, less ferocity, and resulting in more power Vegeta coukdnt beat Cell in part because he haven’t yet mastered Super Saiyan at the time, focusing more in raw power than a balanced mastered form
Short answer - Vegeta is way toi prideful to copy goku Long Answer - we needed the foundation for the boo arc to be set with vegeta being jealous of goku
Toriyama never thought more than a week ahead, incredibly lazy writing imo. Gohan was fighting for his friends and family his entire life and suddenly he becomes a pacifist when Cell appears. Lazy writing.
The issue I have is that vegeta should have been stronger than the cell jrs. bro should have gotten a zenkai after cell whooped his ass and going into the hbtc after
Plot.. although he wouldn’t have beaten Cell, common sense says Vegeta should’ve been able to beat the Cell Jr’s going in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber TWICE.
Agreed. He should have been able to kill at least his own cell jr. The reason he didnt even after getting stronger the second time i think is because he completely abandoned the grade 2. He pushed his base form to a point where his ssj g1= first hbtc ssj g2 power. Which i think is stupid. He should have gone ssj g2 vs the cell jr and had way more power to deal with it. G2 is 5/4th the power of standard ssj. So i think its dumb he completely threw that form away after seeing goku come out of the hbtc. If he went g2 after his second round of training he would have been stronger than goku, but less efficient. But in all honesty who cares. As we saw, g2 wasnt that much more draining. Vegeta was easily able to have a full fight in that form and still have energy left. So i never could understand why he completely abandoned it
The whole stressing the body thing was crazy lol especially since saiyans have no limits or break them continuously either way vegeta two years of training should have been at least strong as cell jr plot or not
The power scaling got pretty bad near the end of the cell saga, piccolos fusing with Kami was also pretty useless since he was even weaker than Vegeta & Cell jr Gohan being the strongest I understand since he was supposed to be the hero but Goku was weaker than Vegeta during the androids saga so when did Goku training method surpass Vegeta when it was worse inferior during the 3 year gap before 19 & Gero showed up.
@DADRB0B55 the thing is, gohan wasnt stronger than them if you consider them all just at base form. The only thing that made gohan stronger was 2 things at the same time. He was the only one to ascend to ssj 2 and he also got one of his famous rage boosts he always gets in each saga. Even with him being a little weaker than goku and vegeta having a full +50x multiplier over them pushed him far ahead. His rage boost at the time of breaking through to ssj2 might have made him equal to goku and vegeta and then basically he had the +50x making him twice their power levels while they are at their peak of ssj at that time.
Vegeta can eat eat his pride sometimes , for sure that he's trying to mastered ssj grade 4 , but since he's not like goku , vegeta for sure can't calm himself and maintain the form just like how goku could.
Disagree about vegeta being self taught. He was a saiyan elite, he received elite training as a young child. He is also a skilled tactical fighter. The reason he couldn't master super saiyan is due to his philosophy of pushing himself with intensity instead of mastering the basics.
Vegeta only wanting to train solo, is not plot only. Its who Vegeta is, Vegeta looks down on anyone weaker than him, its not until DB Super that he change. Goku on the other hand is willing to train with a weaker person because he understands it makes him stronger too, thats how Goku was raised he was always stronger when trained with someone else. While in the time chamber Goku quickly learn the grade 2 and 3 were a weakness, While Vegeta didn't because Goku while people claim he is dumb is very smart when it comes to fighting techniques. Honestly Vegeta was the worst person to go into the time chamber with, Trunks should of went with Goku, Piccolo, or even Tein, because they would of trained with him and been better teachers even if they were weaker. But I think the reason he went in with Vegeta was to spend time with his father, but instead, he got ignored. Just think about it, Chibi Trunks didn't even get strong because of Vegeta, he got strong because he fought alot with Goten. Vegeta didn't even know he was that strong, and in one short training secession with Goku, Trunks and Goten learn how to go SSJ3 as Gotenks and was able to achieve a huge increase in power as Gotenks with Piccolo in the time chamber.
Yeah Vegeta won't do things Goku's way even if he admits they work. This is why he gave up on Ultra Instinct and tried finding his own way which lead him to evolution and Ultra Ego, he also refuses to change is fighting style which is usually to just overpower and dominate
The reason goku and gohan came out in better forms was because they trained together vegeta and trunks didn't they trained separately and they got real strong but goku and gohan actually got things done together. If vegeta and trunks had trained together they would have been stronger than goku and gohan
Future Gohan and Future trunks both had Roshi which is why I never understood why they never trained with him cuz if they did they would have defeated the Androids
I think Vegeta and Trunks were like an incomplete grade 4 in the cell games due to how their auras are drawn against the cell juniors and how trunks looks when he kills the androids in his time and especially when he kills Cell (he would’ve had 3 more years to master grade 4)
Its pretty simple actually, goku went in and spared with gohan getting the most out of training, vegeta essentially went in solo and what im guessing is punched air and excercised by himself, just like irl youre not going to become a better fight without sparing. Punching air and practicing techniques is cool and all until you get punched in the face.
I frequently wonder, if we ignore plot armor and the whole concept of why goku and gohan not going in a second time....But what if they did? Separate or together with other partners. Its something i frequently think about beyond the plot line
The "human" plot. Whatever fantasy we have written that involves humans, some level.of human nature makes us infallible. Justice league for example, batman is basically S tier. Goku, a low level saiyan who basically had human nature instilled in him is the driving force behind him being the most powerful saiyan. He would have never been this strong if he grew up as a typical saiyan.
Imagine if Goku and Vegeta did the same thing, in terms of training wise, with Super Saiyan blue? A cool what if idea for this particular Dragon Ball Z would be if Goku had trained with Future Trunks while Piccolo had trained gohan after words. Imagine a full powered Super Saiyan Goku training trunks to his almost limits, then you have Piccolo breaking through his own limitations while training with a fully empowered Super Saiyan Gohan, while at the same time helping Gohan learn how to control Super Saiyan 2 when he first awoken it.
I'm of the opinion that Vegeta and Trunks should have gone back into the Time Chamber for 4 months a piece with Teachers. Namely, Piccolo and Goku. Have Goku take Trunks in for 4 Months. Give him a proper foundation for good training. Then do the same with Piccolo and Vegeta. Then have Vegeta and Trunks use their remaining 8 Months together, expanding on what Goku and Piccolo taught them with one another.
Goku: Working out mind and body, fighting with his son, practicing martial arts, improving the spiritual strength, having a sparring partner with his son. Effective training and rests. Vegeta: MOOSCLE, MOOSCLE, MOOOOOSCLEEEEEEEEE
They cant. Only two people can enter and only for two days. In both cases the exit door dissapears. Thats ignored later when picollo enters with buu and gotenks is still inside the room tho
@@JustSomeDude848 yeah, not only there were three (four if goten and trunks are not using the fusion), but piccolo already used the room for two days during cell. He couldnt enter again (except he had still a few hours left to use) during cell its said that "only 48 hours of a person's life" or something like that. Then the door dissapears and he is trapped there forever.
@@PatoCh-e4yyeah well that 48 hour thing was bulshit too because dragon Ball super Goku and Vegeta spent three years in there which is 3 days on Earth 72 72 hours later the door was still there in dragon Ball super
This is actually a good point, the fact that anger and pride become a problem in training is a great plot point for why Vegeta is behind Goku; the thing is that after Vegeta's character development in the Buu's saga and now Super, Vegeta will probably (if not by plot) be stronger than Goku since, by nature, Vegeta is a superior class warrior and would be really cool to see, at least in one saga, where Vegeta is the dude that destroys the main villain
ikr, but life had to humble him. Would've been weird if he just want from "I'M A SUPER SAIYAN I AM NUMBER 1" to being calm and introspective in the same arc
Trunks and Gohan shouldve gone into the time chamber together after Gohan finished with Goku. If Trunks explained his past to Gohan properly im sure Gohan would understand why he has to fight and would train accordingly plus with Gohan being the pinnacle of strength at the time, he would be the perfect person for Trunks to train with to get faster gains
Future Trunks: Barely trained throughout his life. Became a SSJ out of grief when Future Gohan is killed. Cuts Frieza to pieces within minutes (possibly seconds seeing this is DBZ and 5 minutes on Namek lasted about 12 episodes) of meeting him and incinerates the pieces 🤣
@@Firemarioflower After Trunks came out of the Time chamber Trunks had long hair which bluma later cuts. If you remember the cell games He again gets his long hair indicating he went inside the chamber
I almost wrote you off , because you didn't mention his experience then your last point in this was just that. Goku's martial arts experience truly separates him from the rest. I love how you broke that all down, truly a saiyan scholar. Great video.@saiyanscholar
I feel it is to do with the pure heart that Goku has or something to do with Vegeta's issues, that Chamber is afterall where you deal with personal problems & conflicts or it is not being in there long enough, Vegeta didnt achieve the level of power and development in his Super Saiyan form which Trunks in Abridged says he found a way to surpass his father that he doesnt know but his extent is Grade 4, not going to Mastered/Full Power is why Future Trunks and Vegeta dont achieve Super Saiyan 2 until much later than Goku, that goes back to Goku mastering the form and Gohan as well.
The simplicity is that the zenkai boost sayians get is important it raises base power. Also another thing was the simple phrase you all forgot to master super sayin - "We stayed in super sayin and then got used to it and no longer had a KI DRAIN" - GOHAN The KI DRAIN is the real reason Trunks and Vegeta couldn't get to grade 4. Grade 4 is mastered super sayin and simply put. "YOU CAN NOT HAVE THE FULL POWER IF YOU HAVE A MASSIVE ENERGY DRAIN." Notice all the old fight how they only went super sayin if it was NEEDED. Grade 4 requires you to acclimate to the form and get used to it and the you can release the full power of the form. SS3 has this same drawback but Goku never just entered the form and focused on controlling his ki drain like in SS1. SS2 is SS1 Grade 5 = SS2 full power of Grade 3 and the speed bonus of Grade 4
As much as he uses it as motivation, Vegeta's pride is his fatal flaw. If Goku figured something out, Vegeta would always want to figure out his own way to do it. I also think Vegeta likes the rage of Super Saiyan. I think it made him feel like a true saiyan warrior.
The big reason here is because yes he entered with trunks but didn’t train way trunks. Goku used the gohan abilities of getting stronger faster and the other sayan being able to get there. He didn’t get strong enough also cuz as goku said getting the body more tiredness wasn’t going to help
It was made more or less clear that Goku'a training strategy/technique hadn't occurred to Vegeta until after the fact & his ego definitely would have prevented him from attempting to imitate Goku's training during the second training session.
I think the training partners should have been swapped if it wasn't for Bejita's ego. I mean Future Trunks with present Gohan and Kakarrot with Bejita. Kakarrot wouldn't take shit from the arrogant prince. He would have kicked his ass any day. If father and son were to train seriously, there is a good chance they would have achieved grade 4 in few months.
Vegeta knew Gotham was the strongest at the start of the cell games. When Goku was fighting cell and everyone was talking about how strong Goku was and how he’d beat Cell, Vegeta just stared at Gohan. He knew better than anyone other than Goku.
I dont remember trunks being prideful. After he killed freiza met up with goku. He admired him alot. Fast fwd to cell games. Watching goku gohan walk out. Why didnt he just ask goku to train him for a day. There was plenty of timr especially when goku said no to him and gohan going back. I know he wanted to chill out but will one day be that much of a difference? Couldnt he chill whilest training trunks.?
I believe goku knowing he had super saiyan for a yr outside his ki control was much better than vegetas having been away for a yr. I’m sure goku was ki training while his heart virus was going he knew vegeta needed to go up a level n told him about the time chamber. Plus goku made Gohan a real warrior in there he surpassed goku but that’s also good training for goku trunks n vegeta never fought they could only get so strong.
The difference between Goku and Vegeta in DBZ is simple. Goku possessed the right thinking. Vegeta did not. The right mindset unlocked knowledge, strength and inner peace.
They just went two different ways about it. Simple as that. Vegeta only worried about increasing his power and goku focused on stamina in the super sayian form. Goku's way just happened to be better.
Interesting points, but yeah it's just plot. We all know that Vegeta and Trunks weren't going to be allowed to keep up with Goku and Gohan no matter how things played out. Especially at that time.
That would’ve been Gokus 3rd time in which wouldn’t have worked also Goku has had many of teachings on how to control his body and energy from so many teachers, vegeta hasn’t making vegeta feats very impressive
Cool video but here’s the actual answer. It’s how it was written. Theory’s about a show that’s written are all incorrect. It’s literally a man made show. One single person controls the outcomes and ways of love for each character….
I think the biggest difference goes all the way back to Roshi. Work hard, study well and eat and sleep plenty. The idea of taking it slow and letting the body recover as an important step to get stronger we see was completely foreign to him. In every one of vegeta's training sessions we see the same method he breaks his body throws some bandages on and keeps pushing until he either gets to a new level or more bandages aren't enough. For this reason the concept of slowing down to get used to the form and resting was beyond his ability to understand. Even upon seeing goku and gohan he wouldn't have figured out they achieved it by slowing down and working their way up to it. Because that doesn't exist for him as a method to gain strength. And trunks couldn't figure it out for the same reason. He had only ever seen the method his dad used or gohan had used, which was all about survival because future gohan had only gotten basic training from piccolo because his dad died. No turtle hermit way.
Vegeta also has issues with his morality which shows the most with Buu Saga where he had shown villainous behavior by giving up to Babadi and so he can't achieve the pure state that is Mastered Super Saiyan and just show love & have a fun time with Trunks and Trunks not obtaining MSSJ is because he was with Vegeta despite him being pure and have good intentions like Goku and Gohan, it was clear that Trunks choosing Vegeta and fight with him alone prevented obtaining the form, he got Grade 4 which shows part of that and why he was really close but not there.
The cell saga and many moments before demonstrated that Goku was a genius of combat overall. He took the time to meditate instead of physically train himself whereas vegeta never took any time to work on his mind and relied solely on raw strength and pride over anything else. This is also why Dragon ball Super annoyed me so badly as well. During one of the training scenes with Whis, they basically retconned all of gokus intelligence in DBZ and made him a complete jug head in all regards and even had the audacity to make Vegeta the one who was meditating instead of goku and making it seem like he hadn't been doin that in the past. Gonna be honest, Super was... not a great addition to dragonball as a whole. It should have ended with Z.
Why isn’t trunks as strong as gohan? He’s half saiyan and I’ll argue he’s been through more hard times than gohan that his rage should have unlocked a new power
Training is the issue here, Gohan had better teachers as shown by Gotenks being trained by Piccollo and given pointers on how to turn SSJ3 by Goku in a few seconds easily surpassing Future Trunks.
Without plot armor vegeta would be the strongest, he trains harder than gohan and goku combined, trained in 450x gravity. Gohan already had his hidden powers unlocked, became SSJ2 and without training in 7 years was able to unlock more powers greater than ssj3. Straight BS, justice for vegeta
Just like real life some people have better genes and better physical potential than others. Vegeta has some good genetics but not Goku / Gohan level. He can train harder but it won’t make the difference against natural talent
Me Personal i think vegeta and piccolo where stronger then Goku, it doesent nake any sense? Vegeta 450 time Gravity Training and Plus his ability to bulk Ob his power Level to a cell like Level musst have made him steonger. Shore goku is the better fighter with his abilitys, but in power Level? Vegeta musst have to be stronger. If goku was stronger why didnt he fight Semi Cell?
One of the biggest issues was the fact that Vegeta was too busy posturing and never actually worked with Trunks. The second time around, they didn't even go together, which is essentially just wasting one's time powering up alone for a year in empty space with no real combat training -- a handicap both times around but made worse the second time. Utter waste of potential but that's the story angle.
Naaa Yall Be Trying To Act Like Vegeta Can Do Stuff And Just Didnt.. It Had Nun To Do With Not Wanting To Copy Goku Ctfu He Just Dont Know How To Train The Right Way He Still Doesnt Even With Whis
Ok, ok what if they were actually a team and went all 4 of them the second time. Probably they would have learned a bit from each other and they would have been more balanced in ki, speed, strength. Surely they would have been much stronger, much faster, with more accurate ki blasts.
Pretty different from how Super handles things. Here it looka like Vegeta's pride and evil personality prevented him from reaching his full potential, leading to him want to do things his own way only to fail as his way was compared to Goku was wrong. The strength in the story is tied to philosophy of the characters and shows that Goku someome who learns and works with others is stronger then vegeta who is selfish and prideful refusing to work with anybody. In Super its opposite, Vegeta goes blue evolved or ultra ego because of the same reason, being prideful and arrogent which does not contrast well with Goku. But super Goku is stupid and sadly is the person toriyama intended for him to be. This series is so weird now how Goku in super is who he was meant to be yet Z and dragonball make him out to be the exact opposite with only hints of that persona being here in there but overshadowed by his other qualities. Now Vegeta feels more like Goku and Goku feels more like Vegeta.
He didnt need a second trip to the time chamber, he needed a therapist.
😂😂😂
Lmfao more like trunks
He needed to train with Trunks
@jameswebb953 maaan… you beat me to it!
Lmao 😂
This really highlights an important difference between Goku and Vegeta: Vegeta was a warrior, Goku was a martial artist, and those are very different things
Factual, which is why Vegeta gets his ass whooped around 90% of the time.
Hmm very interesting take. What would be the difference between warrior and martial artist in real life?
@@MegaSolidninjaGoku’s focus is on the art of fighting itself as a passion, whereas Vegeta is only focused on being the winner out of pride. Vegeta is attached to the outcome of the battle and this makes him rigid, whereas Goku isn’t and this gives him an edge
@@BeHumbleOkay wow that's really insightful... I never seen it that way.
I totally get what you mean and it sounds great but both are warriors, it’s not like vegeta did not master super saiyan later on .
If we're ignoring the obvious, well plot had to happen, then I think it's not a case of talent or skill deficiency that prevented Vegeta from matching the same level of power of Goku and Gohan, but more a mindset issue. Goku and Gohan are both Earthlings and therefore they view skills and techniques as tools to improve and finetune. Vegeta is a Saiyan through and through who also grew up with his homeland's views and legends/folklore. He very well could of seen Super Saiyan as the pinnacle of Saiyan biology, a capstone of his people's history. So turning that power inward to work for him might of been a harder bottleneck to break through. It's very clear he relished the rush of emotions tied to the form and it's more symbolic representation to his people, which I think could of led to a subconscious effort to maintain it as is. Very simply he grew up being told Super Saiyan was the endgame, so it makes sense trying to imagine what would come after that would be harder for him. Goku would, and has never had, that kind of reservation. Because very early on in his martial arts journey he was taught by Master Roshi that there will always be a further horizon, and a more powerful fighter out there. Hell that was the entire plot of the first tournament arc in DB with Jackie Chun.
Facts
5:38 As effective as the training on Yardrat was, I'd say Goku's training on the Lookout with Kami and Mr Popo was what made the biggest difference to Goku. He came back from that a changed man. Sure, he'd grown up physically, but he'd made a massive leap mentally; being a lot more mature. He was a lot calmer, and more contained and in control. He'd learnt to focus more and meditate. Pretty sure Kami was the one to teach the Earthlings how to fully control and manipulate their ki; surpress it, sense it, power it up, etc.
In contrast, the first time Vegeta ever trained was in preparation for the Androids. He had to figure it all out as he went along. Taking on board some things, but ignoring other things because his pride got in the way (not wanting to do something because Goku did it that way). Yet another example in Z of Vegeta's massive ego weighing him down and holding him back.
Look at what Vegeta achieved during the 3 years training for the androids. Now imagine how much further along he would've been had he been training during the 1.5 - 2 years after Namek / before Frieza arrived on Earth. Even more so if he had a mentor like Kami.
Working together is a vital point. In the Buu saga, for instance, Gotenks also got strong very quickly due to them training together.
Basically, it came down to Vegeta being a warrior, Goku being a martial artist and Dragon Ball (at its core) being about martial arts.
In that case, Tien would technically be stronger than Vegeta if he were a saiyan because he'd be a much more strategic fighter because of his martial arts skills and knowledge of combat to surpass him in the hyperbolic time chamber.
@@raimundo6831 Yeah.
Also the fact that Gohan was not only able to unlock ssj but master it as well in less than a year shows how good of a teacher Goku is.
I mean he has been train by the first person who learn super saiyan before everyone and that goofy aahh mid universe 6 saiyans
@@freddyfartbear1987you’re goofy by default for using that phrase lmao
@@TheSCPStudio tbf i already goofy to begin with so i dont see you point
Had nothing to do with Goku, and all to do with Gohans raw talent and ability.
By Trunks and Goten they’re turning ssj at will when they’re like 9.
@theblackprotagonist5936 negative sir, yes Gohans abilities is a factor but so is Goku's teaching. When Gohan 1st went ssj and he was struggling to maintain the form what did Goku tell Gohan? " you've got to calm down and try to focus your energy ". Was that not a teaching moment? Look at Broly all the power in the world but doesn't know how to control it.
Trunks should have trained with Piccolo second time around. Piccolo would have given him great training techniques plus he could keep up with Trunks, much better than going in by himself.
Very interesting if that actually happened
Piccolo doesn't need another person but it is a really cool premise that I now will think about for the next few days.
Piccolo could give trunk so many great fundamentals to training he’d be what he hoped Gohan would have been in sayan saga but straight off the bat.
@@snapshotsreviews4967 he would teach him how to dodge so he wouldn't have been killed by cell
It is pretty clear that he needed a positive environment and just picking Vegeta alone just blocked chances of obtaining the state, Gohan picked his dad while was having a fun time with him so he was able to reach & get that form. Vegeta also still was evil deep down and showed this when giving up to Babidi to obtain Majin so with that root problem, MSSJ could not be obtained and as we see even after DBZ, he still does not have MSSJ.
Just wanna say how much i like the intro.
Instant nostalgia.
Work hard Study well and eat and sleep plenty That is the turtle hermit way
-Master Roshi
I think both Vegeta & Trunks tried to follow the Mastering SS1 Grade 1 route (Inspired by Goku/Gohan) during their 2nd trip into the Room of Spirit and Time | Hyperbolic Time Chamber - but did not progress to the degree of Goku/Gohan.
They seemed to completely abandon the Grade 2 form after the 2nd time entering the chamber.
But I do believe that after their 2nd Time Chamber training, their standard SS1 forms surpassed their Grade 2 selves (Pre-2nd Time Chamber training).
I think that the big difference is that Goku discovered form 2 through acclimating to the base form perfectly and during training, feeling that there was something more only after seeing Gohan near the edge of that discovery. After witnessing Gohan's unlocking of form 2, Vegeta probably felt out that power, knew what it should be like and just discovered that mastery of base isn't a requirement, and out of pride worked to force the state by the means of just powering up to that level required needed without coaxing it out with finesse on emotions. It's sort of the same deal but different context/mechanics with how God ki was unlocked for him as opposed to how goku did it and their ultra powers, with Goku reigning his thoughts in and refining them even more, While Vegeta forces his form through tenacity yet again.
I think Goku had the right idea for the training, but with the time allowed he was not strong enough to take full advantage of the "mastered" super saiyan... this is why they left early and he wasn't worried about winning. He knew Gohan had already acheived that level and Cell was no longer a threat in his eyes. Thus, I'd have to imagine that any saiyan with higher potential than Goku, and his insight and training could have achieved the mastered super saiyan in a similar time... I don't know if Trunks or Vegetas mastery would have made much of a difference (like Goku) given just how much of a T-1000 Cell is, or Gohan's unprecidented latent ability... but I am convinced that if Trunks or Vegeta trained the way Goku and Gohan had they could have acheived grade 4.... ascending to ssj2 however would probably have taken longer- definitely at least for Vegeta, but probably Trunks as well... I like how it played out though, it left plenty of room for doubt and suspense after all. "why isn't Goku going back in? korin doesnt think hes strong enough" etc etc. I think at this point Vegeta may have still had too much to learn to get there, but if he had swallowed his pride and tried to learn, i do think he has greater potential than Goku, its more his philosopy that was holding him back
The real reason was that Vegeta and Goku took different approaches in their training
Vegeta thought SS wasn’t enough, it needed to surpassed
He ultimately thought upgrading it by channeling ki in his muscles would increase his power, making Ultra Grade Super Saiyan or Super Vegeta
Trunks thought doing it more would surpass Cell
Goku realized that Super Saiyan wasn’t complete, that it needed to be mastered by making it like their natural state, his training resulted in Mastered or Full Power Super Saiyan
He didn’t need to upgrade Super Saiyan, only mastering it to a point there’s less Ki consumption, less ferocity, and resulting in more power
Vegeta coukdnt beat Cell in part because he haven’t yet mastered Super Saiyan at the time, focusing more in raw power than a balanced mastered form
He didn’t get the tingly feeling down his back
People are still too dumb to get over this?
@@TheSCPStudio Super is all together dumb.
@@TheSCPStudio was it something I said?
@@TheSCPStudio Suppah is trash
Great video
Minor correction there was one person in trunks' timeline to teach him and it was yajirobe
Short answer - Vegeta is way toi prideful to copy goku
Long Answer - we needed the foundation for the boo arc to be set with vegeta being jealous of goku
Toriyama never thought more than a week ahead, incredibly lazy writing imo.
Gohan was fighting for his friends and family his entire life and suddenly he becomes a pacifist when Cell appears.
Lazy writing.
The issue I have is that vegeta should have been stronger than the cell jrs. bro should have gotten a zenkai after cell whooped his ass and going into the hbtc after
Why? It's stated Cell jrs are as strong as cell unless you mean to say he should be stronger than cell.
Plot.. although he wouldn’t have beaten Cell, common sense says Vegeta should’ve been able to beat the Cell Jr’s going in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber TWICE.
Agreed. He should have been able to kill at least his own cell jr. The reason he didnt even after getting stronger the second time i think is because he completely abandoned the grade 2. He pushed his base form to a point where his ssj g1= first hbtc ssj g2 power. Which i think is stupid. He should have gone ssj g2 vs the cell jr and had way more power to deal with it. G2 is 5/4th the power of standard ssj. So i think its dumb he completely threw that form away after seeing goku come out of the hbtc. If he went g2 after his second round of training he would have been stronger than goku, but less efficient. But in all honesty who cares. As we saw, g2 wasnt that much more draining. Vegeta was easily able to have a full fight in that form and still have energy left. So i never could understand why he completely abandoned it
The whole stressing the body thing was crazy lol especially since saiyans have no limits or break them continuously either way vegeta two years of training should have been at least strong as cell jr plot or not
@@dariusbattle9503 agreed even without g2 him in ssj g1 with 2 years of training should have beat a cell jr
The power scaling got pretty bad near the end of the cell saga, piccolos fusing with Kami was also pretty useless since he was even weaker than Vegeta & Cell jr
Gohan being the strongest I understand since he was supposed to be the hero but Goku was weaker than Vegeta during the androids saga so when did Goku training method surpass Vegeta when it was worse inferior during the 3 year gap before 19 & Gero showed up.
@DADRB0B55 the thing is, gohan wasnt stronger than them if you consider them all just at base form. The only thing that made gohan stronger was 2 things at the same time. He was the only one to ascend to ssj 2 and he also got one of his famous rage boosts he always gets in each saga. Even with him being a little weaker than goku and vegeta having a full +50x multiplier over them pushed him far ahead. His rage boost at the time of breaking through to ssj2 might have made him equal to goku and vegeta and then basically he had the +50x making him twice their power levels while they are at their peak of ssj at that time.
Vegeta: I believe that is a poor decision!
Toriyama: Probably... but it's mine to make.
Vegeta can eat eat his pride sometimes , for sure that he's trying to mastered ssj grade 4 , but since he's not like goku , vegeta for sure can't calm himself and maintain the form just like how goku could.
Disagree about vegeta being self taught. He was a saiyan elite, he received elite training as a young child. He is also a skilled tactical fighter. The reason he couldn't master super saiyan is due to his philosophy of pushing himself with intensity instead of mastering the basics.
Vegeta and trunks didn’t fight each other while training .goku and gohan was fighting each other pushing each other to their limits
Vegeta only wanting to train solo, is not plot only. Its who Vegeta is, Vegeta looks down on anyone weaker than him, its not until DB Super that he change. Goku on the other hand is willing to train with a weaker person because he understands it makes him stronger too, thats how Goku was raised he was always stronger when trained with someone else. While in the time chamber Goku quickly learn the grade 2 and 3 were a weakness, While Vegeta didn't because Goku while people claim he is dumb is very smart when it comes to fighting techniques.
Honestly Vegeta was the worst person to go into the time chamber with, Trunks should of went with Goku, Piccolo, or even Tein, because they would of trained with him and been better teachers even if they were weaker. But I think the reason he went in with Vegeta was to spend time with his father, but instead, he got ignored. Just think about it, Chibi Trunks didn't even get strong because of Vegeta, he got strong because he fought alot with Goten. Vegeta didn't even know he was that strong, and in one short training secession with Goku, Trunks and Goten learn how to go SSJ3 as Gotenks and was able to achieve a huge increase in power as Gotenks with Piccolo in the time chamber.
Why has no one mentioned that the title is gramatically wrong? Shouldn't it be "Why Vegeta HASN'T Mastered Super Saiyan like Goku" Not Wasn't?
The title isn't grammatically wrong.
@@DrMcMoistthe confusion is caused by the word mastered. it is used as part of the phrase "Mastered Super Saiyan" and is not being used as a verb.
@@advancedlamb Why are you telling me this?
@@DrMcMoist didnt mean to, pressed reply and forgot to clear it i guess
Exactly the title is crazy lol
Yeah Vegeta won't do things Goku's way even if he admits they work. This is why he gave up on Ultra Instinct and tried finding his own way which lead him to evolution and Ultra Ego, he also refuses to change is fighting style which is usually to just overpower and dominate
Bro your title hurts my brain
The reason goku and gohan came out in better forms was because they trained together vegeta and trunks didn't they trained separately and they got real strong but goku and gohan actually got things done together. If vegeta and trunks had trained together they would have been stronger than goku and gohan
Future Gohan and Future trunks both had Roshi which is why I never understood why they never trained with him cuz if they did they would have defeated the Androids
Great depth explanation of the training between Goku Gohan Trunks and Vegeta
He was too dense and angry back then and meditation was the last thing in his mind.
I think Vegeta and Trunks were like an incomplete grade 4 in the cell games due to how their auras are drawn against the cell juniors and how trunks looks when he kills the androids in his time and especially when he kills Cell (he would’ve had 3 more years to master grade 4)
Goku and Gohan got the power of plot, simple
Vegeta gatekept and sabotaged himself and trunks
Its pretty simple actually, goku went in and spared with gohan getting the most out of training, vegeta essentially went in solo and what im guessing is punched air and excercised by himself, just like irl youre not going to become a better fight without sparing. Punching air and practicing techniques is cool and all until you get punched in the face.
It’s crazy that it took Vegeta 3 FULL villain arcs for to chill out
I frequently wonder, if we ignore plot armor and the whole concept of why goku and gohan not going in a second time....But what if they did? Separate or together with other partners. Its something i frequently think about beyond the plot line
The "human" plot. Whatever fantasy we have written that involves humans, some level.of human nature makes us infallible. Justice league for example, batman is basically S tier. Goku, a low level saiyan who basically had human nature instilled in him is the driving force behind him being the most powerful saiyan. He would have never been this strong if he grew up as a typical saiyan.
Imagine if Goku and Vegeta did the same thing, in terms of training wise, with Super Saiyan blue?
A cool what if idea for this particular Dragon Ball Z would be if Goku had trained with Future Trunks while Piccolo had trained gohan after words. Imagine a full powered Super Saiyan Goku training trunks to his almost limits, then you have Piccolo breaking through his own limitations while training with a fully empowered Super Saiyan Gohan, while at the same time helping Gohan learn how to control Super Saiyan 2 when he first awoken it.
I'm of the opinion that Vegeta and Trunks should have gone back into the Time Chamber for 4 months a piece with Teachers. Namely, Piccolo and Goku. Have Goku take Trunks in for 4 Months. Give him a proper foundation for good training. Then do the same with Piccolo and Vegeta. Then have Vegeta and Trunks use their remaining 8 Months together, expanding on what Goku and Piccolo taught them with one another.
Training philosophy
Goku: Working out mind and body, fighting with his son, practicing martial arts, improving the spiritual strength, having a sparring partner with his son. Effective training and rests.
Vegeta: MOOSCLE, MOOSCLE, MOOOOOSCLEEEEEEEEE
Besides plot, they simply didn't train the same way 👍
What if all 4 of them went in together?🤔
They cant. Only two people can enter and only for two days. In both cases the exit door dissapears. Thats ignored later when picollo enters with buu and gotenks is still inside the room tho
@@PatoCh-e4y oh right, that was a rule lol. But Yea good point that it gets ignored later on. That's just good old fashioned Toriyama winging it.
@@JustSomeDude848 yeah, not only there were three (four if goten and trunks are not using the fusion), but piccolo already used the room for two days during cell. He couldnt enter again (except he had still a few hours left to use) during cell its said that "only 48 hours of a person's life" or something like that. Then the door dissapears and he is trapped there forever.
@@PatoCh-e4yyeah well that 48 hour thing was bulshit too because dragon Ball super Goku and Vegeta spent three years in there which is 3 days on Earth 72 72 hours later the door was still there in dragon Ball super
@@leosnyder5264 didnt know that. Is there an explanation for that? Maybe it was changed when they rebuilt the room?
Because Vegeta is not a fighting genius, he’s only a brute. That’s why he can never get the job done and is always playing second fiddle to Goku.
Trunks should had copy goku method and stay in ssj for his second trip to the spirit chamber he would have grown much stronger
This is actually a good point, the fact that anger and pride become a problem in training is a great plot point for why Vegeta is behind Goku; the thing is that after Vegeta's character development in the Buu's saga and now Super, Vegeta will probably (if not by plot) be stronger than Goku since, by nature, Vegeta is a superior class warrior and would be really cool to see, at least in one saga, where Vegeta is the dude that destroys the main villain
Imagine if Vegeta trained with goku like he did in super, I feel like he would have been much stronger if he humbled himself in dbz
ikr, but life had to humble him. Would've been weird if he just want from "I'M A SUPER SAIYAN I AM NUMBER 1" to being calm and introspective in the same arc
In conclusion grind harder be smarter and I’m a vegeta fan saying this. Well said saiyajin scholar 🫡
Goku always follows the turtle hermit way
Trunks and Gohan shouldve gone into the time chamber together after Gohan finished with Goku. If Trunks explained his past to Gohan properly im sure Gohan would understand why he has to fight and would train accordingly plus with Gohan being the pinnacle of strength at the time, he would be the perfect person for Trunks to train with to get faster gains
Future Trunks: Barely trained throughout his life. Became a SSJ out of grief when Future Gohan is killed.
Cuts Frieza to pieces within minutes (possibly seconds seeing this is DBZ and 5 minutes on Namek lasted about 12 episodes) of meeting him and incinerates the pieces 🤣
That thumbnail yo lol
Love the thumbnail 😂
2:37 Only Vegeta went in a second time, Trunks trained on the lookout itself.
@@Firemarioflower After Trunks came out of the Time chamber Trunks had long hair which bluma later cuts.
If you remember the cell games He again gets his long hair indicating he went inside the chamber
@@reajuddin2043!
I almost wrote you off , because you didn't mention his experience then your last point in this was just that. Goku's martial arts experience truly separates him from the rest. I love how you broke that all down, truly a saiyan scholar. Great video.@saiyanscholar
I feel it is to do with the pure heart that Goku has or something to do with Vegeta's issues, that Chamber is afterall where you deal with personal problems & conflicts or it is not being in there long enough, Vegeta didnt achieve the level of power and development in his Super Saiyan form which Trunks in Abridged says he found a way to surpass his father that he doesnt know but his extent is Grade 4, not going to Mastered/Full Power is why Future Trunks and Vegeta dont achieve Super Saiyan 2 until much later than Goku, that goes back to Goku mastering the form and Gohan as well.
The simplicity is that the zenkai boost sayians get is important it raises base power.
Also another thing was the simple phrase you all forgot to master super sayin -
"We stayed in super sayin and then got used to it and no longer had a KI DRAIN" - GOHAN
The KI DRAIN is the real reason Trunks and Vegeta couldn't get to grade 4.
Grade 4 is mastered super sayin and simply put.
"YOU CAN NOT HAVE THE FULL POWER IF YOU HAVE A MASSIVE ENERGY DRAIN."
Notice all the old fight how they only went super sayin if it was NEEDED.
Grade 4 requires you to acclimate to the form and get used to it and the you can release the full power of the form.
SS3 has this same drawback but Goku never just entered the form and focused on controlling his ki drain like in SS1.
SS2 is SS1 Grade 5 = SS2 full power of Grade 3 and the speed bonus of Grade 4
Goku got so strong cause gohan was pushing him, also goku while meditating, knew that mastery of super saiyan would help gohan transform to ssj2.
As much as he uses it as motivation, Vegeta's pride is his fatal flaw. If Goku figured something out, Vegeta would always want to figure out his own way to do it.
I also think Vegeta likes the rage of Super Saiyan. I think it made him feel like a true saiyan warrior.
The big reason here is because yes he entered with trunks but didn’t train way trunks. Goku used the gohan abilities of getting stronger faster and the other sayan being able to get there. He didn’t get strong enough also cuz as goku said getting the body more tiredness wasn’t going to help
if only trunks had a better training partner. he likely would have gotten to ssj 2 before the cell games. since he already had ssj
It was made more or less clear that Goku'a training strategy/technique hadn't occurred to Vegeta until after the fact & his ego definitely would have prevented him from attempting to imitate Goku's training during the second training session.
Meanwhile universe 6 sayans achiving ssj 2 in mins
Imagine if Vegeta and Goku went in at the same time. Both get stronger and Vegeta gets a whole year of fighting with Goku.
That would be logical writing, not DBZ writing lol
I think the training partners should have been swapped if it wasn't for Bejita's ego. I mean Future Trunks with present Gohan and Kakarrot with Bejita. Kakarrot wouldn't take shit from the arrogant prince. He would have kicked his ass any day. If father and son were to train seriously, there is a good chance they would have achieved grade 4 in few months.
If Vegeta had mastered Super Saiyan, he would've given Cell a decent fight at the very least. Cell would still win though.
Dbs Vegeta and (grown man future dbs) trunks should train together that would be epic ssbe or u.e Vegeta vs ss2 rage trunks
Vegeta knew Gotham was the strongest at the start of the cell games. When Goku was fighting cell and everyone was talking about how strong Goku was and how he’d beat Cell, Vegeta just stared at Gohan. He knew better than anyone other than Goku.
Love it!
Are you taking suggestions for a what if episode?
I dont remember trunks being prideful. After he killed freiza met up with goku. He admired him alot. Fast fwd to cell games. Watching goku gohan walk out. Why didnt he just ask goku to train him for a day. There was plenty of timr especially when goku said no to him and gohan going back. I know he wanted to chill out but will one day be that much of a difference? Couldnt he chill whilest training trunks.?
Atleast when they were awake? Goku was asleep on the grass when krillin threw him with a rock
I believe goku knowing he had super saiyan for a yr outside his ki control was much better than vegetas having been away for a yr. I’m sure goku was ki training while his heart virus was going he knew vegeta needed to go up a level n told him about the time chamber. Plus goku made Gohan a real warrior in there he surpassed goku but that’s also good training for goku trunks n vegeta never fought they could only get so strong.
The difference between Goku and Vegeta in DBZ is simple. Goku possessed the right thinking. Vegeta did not. The right mindset unlocked knowledge, strength and inner peace.
Vegeta been trained by one person king Vegeta then was kidnapped goku who hasn't trained goku
They just went two different ways about it. Simple as that. Vegeta only worried about increasing his power and goku focused on stamina in the super sayian form. Goku's way just happened to be better.
Interesting points, but yeah it's just plot. We all know that Vegeta and Trunks weren't going to be allowed to keep up with Goku and Gohan no matter how things played out. Especially at that time.
this shit crazy trunks and vegeta couldve gotten ssj2 way faster or at least trunks since he's a hybrid
I had always heard Vegeta DID master super saiyan by the cell games in the manga. No clue if it's true.
It’s simple. “Plot” armor
That would’ve been Gokus 3rd time in which wouldn’t have worked also Goku has had many of teachings on how to control his body and energy from so many teachers, vegeta hasn’t making vegeta feats very impressive
Cool video but here’s the actual answer. It’s how it was written. Theory’s about a show that’s written are all incorrect. It’s literally a man made show. One single person controls the outcomes and ways of love for each character….
I think the biggest difference goes all the way back to Roshi. Work hard, study well and eat and sleep plenty. The idea of taking it slow and letting the body recover as an important step to get stronger we see was completely foreign to him. In every one of vegeta's training sessions we see the same method he breaks his body throws some bandages on and keeps pushing until he either gets to a new level or more bandages aren't enough. For this reason the concept of slowing down to get used to the form and resting was beyond his ability to understand. Even upon seeing goku and gohan he wouldn't have figured out they achieved it by slowing down and working their way up to it. Because that doesn't exist for him as a method to gain strength. And trunks couldn't figure it out for the same reason. He had only ever seen the method his dad used or gohan had used, which was all about survival because future gohan had only gotten basic training from piccolo because his dad died. No turtle hermit way.
Vegeta also has issues with his morality which shows the most with Buu Saga where he had shown villainous behavior by giving up to Babadi and so he can't achieve the pure state that is Mastered Super Saiyan and just show love & have a fun time with Trunks and Trunks not obtaining MSSJ is because he was with Vegeta despite him being pure and have good intentions like Goku and Gohan, it was clear that Trunks choosing Vegeta and fight with him alone prevented obtaining the form, he got Grade 4 which shows part of that and why he was really close but not there.
He didn’t wanna copy Goku flow word for word bar for bar
The cell saga and many moments before demonstrated that Goku was a genius of combat overall. He took the time to meditate instead of physically train himself whereas vegeta never took any time to work on his mind and relied solely on raw strength and pride over anything else.
This is also why Dragon ball Super annoyed me so badly as well. During one of the training scenes with Whis, they basically retconned all of gokus intelligence in DBZ and made him a complete jug head in all regards and even had the audacity to make Vegeta the one who was meditating instead of goku and making it seem like he hadn't been doin that in the past.
Gonna be honest, Super was... not a great addition to dragonball as a whole. It should have ended with Z.
Why isn’t trunks as strong as gohan? He’s half saiyan and I’ll argue he’s been through more hard times than gohan that his rage should have unlocked a new power
Training is the issue here, Gohan had better teachers as shown by Gotenks being trained by Piccollo and given pointers on how to turn SSJ3 by Goku in a few seconds easily surpassing Future Trunks.
Without plot armor vegeta would be the strongest, he trains harder than gohan and goku combined, trained in 450x gravity. Gohan already had his hidden powers unlocked, became SSJ2 and without training in 7 years was able to unlock more powers greater than ssj3. Straight BS, justice for vegeta
Just like real life some people have better genes and better physical potential than others. Vegeta has some good genetics but not Goku / Gohan level. He can train harder but it won’t make the difference against natural talent
Me Personal i think vegeta and piccolo where stronger then Goku, it doesent nake any sense? Vegeta 450 time Gravity Training and Plus his ability to bulk Ob his power Level to a cell like Level musst have made him steonger. Shore goku is the better fighter with his abilitys, but in power Level? Vegeta musst have to be stronger.
If goku was stronger why didnt he fight Semi Cell?
One of the biggest issues was the fact that Vegeta was too busy posturing and never actually worked with Trunks. The second time around, they didn't even go together, which is essentially just wasting one's time powering up alone for a year in empty space with no real combat training -- a handicap both times around but made worse the second time. Utter waste of potential but that's the story angle.
The Final Flash would have 100% killed Cell if he didn't move.
Most definitely!
Don't know man.. we saw Cell Jr. tanking a Final flash from a stronger version of Vegeta
@@kumarayush9950 Vegeta didn't charge it up then like he did against cell. And he was already fatigued
@@MEDICUS729 He wasn't fatigued, he was more fatigued against cell tbh .. he had two back to back battles without a single senzu against Cell
Naaa Yall Be Trying To Act Like Vegeta Can Do Stuff And Just Didnt.. It Had Nun To Do With Not Wanting To Copy Goku Ctfu He Just Dont Know How To Train The Right Way He Still Doesnt Even With Whis
This honestly didn’t need to video, anyone with a brain knows the answer to this😂
Why he mastered ssj when he Mastered ssj2 which is even further beyond goku's ssj3
I bet if they hired you to write Dragon Ball
Super wouldn't be so pussified
It’s all just plot. Goku has to be better no matter what
Ok, ok what if they were actually a team and went all 4 of them the second time. Probably they would have learned a bit from each other and they would have been more balanced in ki, speed, strength. Surely they would have been much stronger, much faster, with more accurate ki blasts.
Because he trained alone with hurt him.
Pretty different from how Super handles things. Here it looka like Vegeta's pride and evil personality prevented him from reaching his full potential, leading to him want to do things his own way only to fail as his way was compared to Goku was wrong. The strength in the story is tied to philosophy of the characters and shows that Goku someome who learns and works with others is stronger then vegeta who is selfish and prideful refusing to work with anybody. In Super its opposite, Vegeta goes blue evolved or ultra ego because of the same reason, being prideful and arrogent which does not contrast well with Goku. But super Goku is stupid and sadly is the person toriyama intended for him to be. This series is so weird now how Goku in super is who he was meant to be yet Z and dragonball make him out to be the exact opposite with only hints of that persona being here in there but overshadowed by his other qualities. Now Vegeta feels more like Goku and Goku feels more like Vegeta.