Time and time again it's proven that power levels are not linear at least until the saiyan saga, so Goku having 10 at the beggining of DB is fine. It's funny how you just take into account the car but ignore all the other strenght and speed statements and showings.
can you give some examples? db has basically no official power levels till the sayian saga, so dont you think its weird to say its non linear in the non power levels era? its alot easier to just ignore the 10
@yurazah Goku takes a whole day to climb Korin's tower at first but he later climbs up and down in just 3 hours. Goku said that his power doesn't compare to Old King Piccolo's, and Old King Piccolo replies by saying that he wasn't even using half of his strenght. According to Piano, Old Demon King Piccolo is "nothing" compared to Young King Piccolo. Piccolo Jr says he has gotten "many times" stronger than Young King Piccolo. And I'm ignoring the fact that Roshi and Piccolo destroyed the freaking moon.
@@dimitri4888 I see, its hard to keep everything 100% consistent even within your own story (like goku struggling to lift 40 tons) I think anything like this would probably have minor issues, a big underlying idea behind the video is me trying to justify old db having linear powers to be consistent with their depiction in z and I think it works pretty well to be interpreted in this way, but your right that you could argue thoes things and easily blow things out of proportion saying stuff like they got 2x stronger over and over, thats definitely a viable interpretation aswell.
5:00 I know it probably wouldn't change anything, but couldn't we just use the weight of the irl cars for that? Bulma's cars in the manga and promo are a 1980 Renault 5 Turbo and a 1965 Triumph TR4A respectively. Even if they're shown with a superdeformed design I'd still say they weight the same.
Dragon Ball Z writing is inconsistent. Alot of things are not meant to be taken literally or mathematically calculated. Toriyama prefers "fun" over literal power scaling
@@yurazah I wouldn't say they're consistent at any point of the story, Piccolos power level is 3500 against Nappa who's at 4000 and he doesn't stand a chance even with help from the other Z fighters, meanwhile Goku is having a fairly even fight with a Kaio-Ken X3 power level of 24000 against Vegeta at 15000. Either way I enjoyed your video trying to make power levels more consistent compared to the "official" power levels of the Daizenshuu.
This is actually pretty well reasoned, most people seem to make pretty wild claims for power levels, honestly I find that ignoring as many guides as possible helps everything make a lot more sense lol.
Unpopular opinion but I actually prefer the og dragon ball (I read the manga btw) because it feels more magical than dbz. You can clearly tell the difference between the chinese inspiration for the og and the western sci-fi inspiration for dbz. Just my opinion tho
Yeah that's cool but DBZ is still better tho. OG Dragon Ball is 80% jokes, gags, and tournaments with basically zero stakes going on. If that fits your vibe better, cool, but it's just way less appealing for most people. Every fight in DBZ has stakes going on, everything is super dramatic, the dialogue goes hard and the one liners go absolutely insane. Everything is generally just bigger, flashier and more important. Dragon Ball feels like an appetizer for DBZ in that sense. The best villain in OG Dragon Ball is Demon King Piccolo, who ain't even on the mount Rushmore of Dragon Ball villains imo. And no Vegeta or Gohan basically means that DB just doesn't have any interesting characters to speak of at all outside of Piccolo Jr. No disrespect to Tien, he was a fine antagonist, but if he was more interesting Toriyama would have probably used him more than once after that. "But what about Goku" Goku as a kid is a good gag character but that's about it. Then there's all the weird shit OG Dragon Ball does constantly. Bro if your parents walked in on you watching OG Dragon Ball you'd change the channel. You don't want to have to explain any of that crap. What's with Japanese people and panties. Basically, I'm saying that OG DB probably does just vibe with you better, but there's many good reasons that opinion ain't popular.
I know it's a "super saiyan style" (the style which Trunks, after training with Vegeta tries to use against Cell), but it could make sense that Master Roshi was actually using it in his fight against Uzaru Goku in the second tournament.... it kind of looks just like it, and he did zero dodging while using it, his whole intent was to beef up his power so that he could blow up the moon. it would also mean that he's used that same technique a couple other times, including when he put out the fire mountain right before Goku learned the Kamehameha, and it would also give some meaning to that whole fake-out when it comes up in DBZ. Trunks had discovered a power that Roshi had learned years ago, and was misapplying it, in a proper martial arts fight against Cell, whereas Roshi was using it in its proper way - Destroying gigantic stationary objects. just a thought I had while watching this video.
power levels can't be linear. freeza blows up a planet with a power level of 530,000. this would put a normal human at a power level of a whopping 0.00000000000000000000000002. and that's being generous.
Planet busting in the DB universe is way easier than real life planet busting In DB, all it takes is to "damage the core" of a planet for it to destabilize and explode, which is complete nonsense IRL and not how things work at all, making destroying planets far easier than it would be IRL, planet cores are not bombs, not even close, and the amounts of power required to make a planet "explode" IRL would be absurdly higher. This is confirmed with the fact that even master Roshi and Piccolo were able to blow up the moon with a relatively super weak power level for such an insane feat., Piccolo with just a power level of less than 1000 blew the moon up with no effort at all, and trust me, the moon is massive.
@@DeMooniCyour point doesn't work since with context we know it's not just destabilizing the core they are destabilizing the gravity which would require as much energy as the gbe of the planet Also they destroy planets at a subatomic level which would far outclass the gbe Also proof And planet busting in db is actually much harder since even earth is 3 to 4× larger than it is irl and the Average planet has the same gbe as a star
Your biggest mistake is forgetting that scouters take equipment into account. Farmer with a shotgun is 5 *because he has a shotgun*. Average human is around PL1. The first time we see Goku, he gets hurt by bullets but not killed. So, PL10 computes.
Kid goku being 10 makes sense the reasons being if you are over like actual 2 times strong as someone you can easily kill them. (Vegeta vs Qui) We see kid goku get hurt by bullets so it isnt that far off to say 10. If it were actually 70 kid goku would geniunly solo the whole series with oozaru. Great video tho
I always view a person wielding a weapon as using the "battle power" of the weapon. like each weapon sort of has a battlepower all its own. The 5 that the Farmer registered wasn't just the farmer himself, it was the battlepower of the farmer wielding a single shot shotgun. Basically pitiful compared to a "Saiyan Elite" So Launch wouldn't necessarily increase her physical stats by a huge amount, but she's always heavily armed when in her altered state, So it uses the powerlevel of the Gun she uses, which is probably a 7-8? ish? something like that. honestly I prefer to view Power Levels as something that the people in the series MISTAKENINGLY rely on. They rely on power levels because they think that they have mastered "power" to a point where they can quantify it, but no matter what, Goku proves that their power level scaling is just wrong because he's always able to transcend and reach new heights of power considered impossible before. Basically until Goku brought the concept of "Training" to the universe, the only way for a being to "transcend" their power level in any noticeable way was to change their entire form. The idea that a person could do push ups and improve their power level to the point that it matters at all is laughable to the Frieza society but it's true. They are weaker because they don't train. For the Frieza society the only way to improve your power is to have a secret hidden form, whose static power is stronger then your previous form. Basically, I think Frieza is completely fundamentally wrong about power levels, and I think the story is much much better when read that way. They're a crutch that people that aren't Goku use as an excuse to not train. So long as they only ever pick on someone with a lower power level then them, then they never have to train and improve themselves, a thing they don't even THINK they can do, because their whole society is based on Power Levels and the Pecking order. But....... then they decided to post tons of information about power levels, and so the READERS started basically falling into the same trap as Frieza. and now you're basically doing the same thing and propagating the same mistaken ethos. But that's ok, you seem to have done a lot of good work so I'm quite enjoying the video.
Here’s my two cents on the manner of power levels: 1. A power level of 10 is meant to represent the power of a peak human Athlete in their prime, normal humans with no training or Ki control will rarely get passed 10. 2. The power levels shown are meant to represented as “resting” power levels that are risen with training and ki control, which then can be compressed and make their attacks more powerful than their resting power levels. (Which confuses me on why the hell the Ox King is so high when compared to Roshi.) 3. Power levels are gauged by three factors: Strength, Speed and Ki (Control, compression and power) and is rounded by average (so having a high strength and and a low ki can be the difference between another that has high ki and high strength), a balance in all three is recommended for the best results of power training. 4. Power levels generate a passive ki shield, which lets people tank attacks that a normal person would not survive and either negates or severely reduces the damage taken when being hit by someone weaker than themselves. The Deizenshu states that in order to start doing the maximum damage to someone stronger than you are, you need to be within 20% (resting power level or the compression of your ki attack must be within 20%) of the opponent’s higher power level (eg: you have a power level of 80 and your opponent have a power level of 100), only then will your attacks start hitting their mark (with resistance, but the gap closes as your power level does).
Funnily enough I already have my own numbers for this I just. . made the list for myself, not to share But it'll be fun comparing my numbers to yours Edit: 3:11 Okay, first thing is. . I kind of threw this out too. . . I basically did power scaling of Dragon Ball itself first, and *then* fit it into DBZ power levels It just felt like the way to go about it Edit 2: Back to the previous point, this actually did bring up issues because if my numbers were correct (obviously they weren't) it would make Tien and Kami actually get *weaker* during the 5 year time skip That's been fixed by now, but it was kind of funny when it happened Edit 3: 5:21 How do we *really* know the Farmer with a Shotgun is an average farmer? Maybe he's actually really strong, but we wouldn't really know because the only person we ever see him fight is Raditz who was literally 300 times stronger than him
Being a ninja and thus presumably having martial arts training, Shu/Shao/Sho/Shoe whatever the localization calls the little fox guy this time around could easily be in the higher single digits and break nothing in terms of power scale. He'd be the muscle of the group.
17:37 that does seem about right for Piccolo at that point, but being unaffected by the Kamehameha at that point probably isn’t a raw power feat. It was just established that Tien was outright immune to that move due to skill and not power, and that had to have been fresh on Toriyama’s mind. I
If always assumed it was like a square root or cube root thing. Or just a made-up thing, because bigger number looks better, especially to kids. But chuck a square or cube root (or more) over any of those numbers, and power disparities seem more reasonable (but does make Farmer more likely to blow up moons when drunk)
I only use actual feats that we see and never some third party guides bc those guides never know what they're talking about (like the GT Perfect Files saying Buu Saga Vegito *may* be stronger than SS4, which many people use to lowball GT's scaling without ever looking at any feats.) also thank you for mentioning that Z Bardock is in the manga, therefore making Super not canon to the original series
Great video, as someone who's also dabbled into this stuff I can appreciate the effort that's put into this! I'm going to check out the Sparking Zero BP video after this and I hope you continue making content like this. I want to say, though, over the years I've NEVER seen anyone actually take the Movie 3 Pamphlet numbers seriously so please let me know who you've seen using them because I want to see what kind of person would do that. About the Kid Goku being just a 10 thing; I know the out-of-universe explanation is that the staff just didn't think about it that much but in-universe I've always thought of the Scouter numbers to follow a kind of logarithmic function where the gap between, say, 5 and 10 would be exponential but the gap between 50,000 and 100,000 would be linear. It makes sense for Frieza's army where even the weaker soldiers like Raditz have a battle power of 1,500 and can nuke entire continents in a single attack so instead of their energy level being 1.5 x 10^29 Joules it's just 1,500 with no unit. Then backtracking from that number, if it were linear, both someone like a regular human and a trained martial artist like Kid Goku would have a battle power of almost 0. So it could make sense why the numbers are 5 and 10 instead for readability's sake, both in-universe and out-of-universe. You could even argue that the power levels get more linear at the end so that when Frieza pulls out his "My power level is 530,000" it appears that much more intimidating. Like the soldiers think that two guys with a PL of 5 have no chance against a guy with a PL of 10 and so Frieza with his massive 530k numba is absolutely unsurpassable but they'd be wrong because they CAN surpass him just by ranging a few parks with Android 17. The power levels getting linear at the end also explains why Piccolo can jump from 3,500 in the Saiyan Arc to over 250,000 in the Namek arc in just a few days; it just appears like a big jump according to the power level system when in reality it's more or less his regular rate of growth.
ya I agree that the non linear interpretation works and is obviously the widely accepted interpretation, I thought it would be interesting to push back against that a bit here. also the specific example of movie 3 pamphlet, alot of bigger db creators who dont look that deep into power levels have used it, like masako x has used the ox king 900 level before, tho keep in mind he cares very little for power scaling and his videos prioritize narrative even if it dosent make sense power wise (also the sz video is kinda low effort, I didnt expect this one to do so well, I'll have to make more like this in the future.)
Love Dragon ball but i don't think Freeza should've gotten a power level in his first form. It was also a mistake to give him a level in the millions in his 2nd form. At least the numbers were ignored after Namek
it can be hard to balance your story and maintain narrative tension when everyone has an exact number, that being said, while hard, it can add alot to your story when done well, like alot of the power levels in db are only introduced to be subverted later, like goku and piccolo still winning while at a massive disadvantage.
1:18 18,000, not 180,000. 1:43 Toriyama said he wished he had a guide handy like the Daizenshuu, giving it his seal of approval. One has to concede the Battle Powers are not linear even without the Daizenshuu, since working backwards from the Farmer's 5 and Goku's ~334-924 simply does not leave enough of a gap for the listed powers in the text of the original manga. Daizenshuu just codifies it. The entire video seems to ignore that the destruction of Moon cannot be divided to any human level with only a few hundred values to go by. 2:30 Those are not Battle Powers. They are Battle Points, and the movies are not canon to the manga to begin with, so these values can easily be tossed out. 3:20 Perhaps using TeamFourStar with a gag referring to a version of Broli that does not exist is not the best way to start one's argument. Even if the special is dubiously canon, certain elements have certainly been tossed out, and Goku's Battle Power might be one of the first to go. 5:27 Early sources said that Goku literally had twice the strength of an average man (sort of like the logic used for Manwolf later). That is how 10 is calculated. Probably wrong given the aforementioned lifting feat, but oh well. 5:34 Those same guides insinuate Goku's skin was especially tough, possibly beyond his own strength. Retroactively, might be that Saiyans are just more difficult to kill than they can inflict. 7:46 Tenshinhan was 180 and stated equal in power to Goku, either way. 8:29 His Dodonpa is actually stated stronger than Kuririn's Kamehameha at that point. 12:07 He was actually beating him before resorting to paralysis, though it was competitive. 12:25 Shown/stated to be stronger than Goku. 12:35 Electricity, not a laser. Artificial Humans do not have actual Battle Powers since they lack ki which is used for the determining of Battle Powers. Should be noted any readings would essentially be estimates of what their Battle Power would be (B.P.E). 17:50 It is stated he became multiple times stronger, actually, which is another clear example of the non-linear scaling. 18:50 His defeat by Piccolo would also give one since his heart literally stopped. 20:10 The two are also stated to be equal.
Wait, people think early dragonball has a greater than 1:1 power level scaling? I never heard that before. I'm not really a power scaler, I rarely watch videos on the topic, but when talking with friends, the feats vs the power never really made much sense to us, like a moon can be destroyed by first tournament Roshi, yet somehow Namek can survive any attack from Frieza? That makes no sense using linear power scaling, even if he was holding back some, he should be able to explode a planet with a death beam from his pinkie even if his finger was broken and Frieza was on life support. The actual application of the power just doesn't translate well, to me, or my friends. They just said power levels were bullshit, but I said "what if they're logarithmic?" So the stronger you get the less noticeable the difference is approaching infinity towards 0. This would also explain why a move like Tien's Neo Tri Beam could stop Semi-Perfect Cell. Cell's power level should be 10 or 100x what Tien is capable of even if Tien were able to give himself a temporary SSJ 50x boost by concentrating his ki. But if Neo Tri beam were to use a linear multiplier and power levels were at least somewhat logarithmic, suddenly this feat can make a lot more sense. Suddenly the characters like Chaotzu even being able to see the movements of character far stronger than them makes at least a little sense. Power levels could easily equate to an amount of work or energy, while the actual results, due to diminishing returns, don't scale as high. Alternatively, you could frame that as meaning there is wasted energy the more energy you use/have. Which would actually make Ultra Instinct's real effect and what it says it does match up a lot better. Ultra Instinct is supposedly not so much as power up as it is using your energy naturally and effortlessly. Well, given a logarithmic model, suddenly it makes sense how this form/technique that goes on top of Goku's base can outscale Kaioken x20 SSJ Blue. Because even with 20x the power and a super saiyan form on top of his base, Goku would be at a scale where his forms waste so much energy that a fully utilized base could outperform a supposed, let's just say 1000x boost for SSJ + Kaioken 20x. This would also explain why Goku could fight someone who is powerful enough to require that type of boost just to compete with from his base form without getting instantly wiped out, such as by Hit. Hit fought SSJ Blue gokus relatively on par, but the 10x barely gave Goku an edge. There are some moments in Z that feel similar, such as how SSJ2 Majin Vegeta being able to compete nearly on level with Fat Buu. Still weaker, but close enough to be able to avoid being instantly wiped and also being able to pull off moves that could shred Buu apart. Say that's 80%. Goku was about equal to that Vegeta and had a supposed 4x multiplier on top of that, so 320% Buu. Goku could've hit Buu once at half power and split him in half with that type of a power difference if power levels were linear Similarly this works for kid Gohan jumping Frieza's various forms, even if he had rage boosts helping him out. Piccolo holding off 50% Frieza for Goku to charge the Spirit bomb when he couldn't keep up with form 3, which was somewhere in the realm of 3% or 4% of that 50% Frieza. And he did that somewhat fatigued with a boost from fatigued Gohan and Krillin, who were both weaker than Piccolo. He would need to get at least 10x as strong as he was fresh just to stand a chance of holding the Frieza of that time off for even a second, but he pulls it off. Stuff like that makes me feel like the linear power thing is mostly BS
Bruh always the same... Everyone seems to not see the simple fact that planest busting logic in DB universe simply makes no sense which is why they can easily destroy planets and moons with barely any effort. Planets in DB universe work VERY differently to real planets. In DB, a planet's/moon's core is like a planets heart, like a literaly nuclear/energy core of sorts that, if damaged and "destabilized", results in the entire planet exploding instantly or after a while depending on how much damage it received from the attacker, as we can see with Namek getting worse and worse with time until it explodes, confirming that it's not just the Ki explosion from Freezer that makes everything explode but the core it's self exploding from the damage received, which is nonsense and not at all how planets work. IRL, that doesn't work like that... AT ALL, a planet's core is just a ball of metal and no planet would ever explode no matter how much you "damage the core", it's just a ball of super hot pressurised solid/liquid metal that might or might not influence in tectonics, volcanism and is the source of a planet's magnetic field... But that's it, it's not a planets "heart" or some kind of nuclear/energy reactor thingy like DB seems to imply. This is why absolutely everyone gets comparisons in between DBZ characters and other anime or media characters absolutely wrong, because Roshi is not "moon level", nor is Piccolo, nor is early Goku and maybe even Frieza isn't, who knows, planet busting is just so ridiculously easy in DB that it's impossible to compare, DB astrophysics just make no sense. Early DBZ characters would absolutelly not be able to destroy the moon with real life physics, or other animes physics for that matter. This also solves the question of how they can fight and throw Ki blasts everywhere without destroying the planet but at the same time make the planet explode with a simple attack using little to no effort, because planet/moon cores in DB are just stupidly fragile and a fucking super powerful bomb lol
My theory is that power levels are exponential like someone with a power level of 5 is more than five times stronger than someone with a power level 1 that can explain why roshi was able to obliterate the moon with a PL of 160
If power levels were actually linear, Vegeta would be FAR more than 4000 times stronger than a human... You would need to be millions, perhaps BILLIONS of times more powerful than a human in order to destroy a planet.
I think the car being your base for scaling using normal weight measurements doesn't make sense - remember - bulma is carrying *several* in her bag. capsule corp items must be rather light.
Daizenshuu should be trusted and everyone’s Power Levels is correct. The powerscaling in Dragon Ball works in such a way that if the first is at least twice as strong as the second, this means that he is much times stronger than him in strength, speed and defense. Frieza in his second form with a power level of 1,000,000 is capable of destroying the universe. In the Trunks arc, all the characters have 200 million and each is capable of defeating Frieza with one blow, in the Cell games arc, all the characters after training have above 500 billion, and I’m generally silent about the Buu saga, there is a redistribution of quadrillions. Scale power level: 10: build level 100: moon level 1000: planet level 10k: star level 100k: galaxy level 1mln: universe level 10mln: multiverse level 100mln: hyperverse level Results: Goku (Namek saga, Super Saiyan) with 150mln power levels is hyperversal
I think it’s dishonest to compare a movie pamphlet and the databook. Power level doesn’t just correlate pure strength it calculates many aspects I don’t agree with hypothetically 79.
to be fair, I basically disapproved of both, I had initially given goku a 91 at that part, (assuming the car was heavier) but as I kept going it didnt work, so I had to go back and lower goku so everything else would fit better
Power Level/Fight level or whatever is just meassuring raw KI, which is why a machine can read it, otherwise it makes no sense how a machine can read how "skilled" you are, so that's never taken into account
Consider that "1" power level could very well mean the power of one average person It makes more sense to me this way than quantifying it as some sort of physical Stat, because I would place bulma and most normal characters around 1, but the farmer with a shot gun only being marginally more powerfull than an unarmed average warrior doesn't make much sense That is to say if we're counting accessories and weapons into their power level, that's how bulma could be where she was at
I don't know if Ox King was NECESSARILY weaker then Roshi because he needed Roshi's help. Ox King, at least in old Dragon Ball, is really really really really dumb. and Intelligence doesn't really factor into Power levels, so he could have twice as much power as Roshi, but if he's doing all stupid things, and Roshi does one smart thing, it can seem like Roshi is much stronger when really he's just smarter. Just a thought though really
5:00 I'm not posative but that looks like an Honda S600 or old british Austin Healey MG or something. probably weighs around 1500 pounds. those old itty bitty roadsters are not heavy
In the beginning you say "Well a car is probably 30% less than a car on our planet..." Earth literally IS our planet. You're just pulling stuff out of nowhere to fit numbers. Not a good start.
What he probably meant with that is, since DB's Earth tech is way more advanced, he assumed that car might be lighter...? IDK lol Also the DB universe, Earth included, is VERY different in a ton of ways, including things as basic as continents, countries and much more. There's fucking dinosaurs, monsters, superhuman strenght, the whole ki blast and ki control stuff, etc. Hell, they can put houses and cars inside a freaking little capsule that somehow supresses the weight of whatever is inside, who is to say they can't make cars lighter? It's an assumption for sure, but nothing crazy or unrealistic for DB standards at all. And in case you wonder WHY they would make a car lighter, that's an easy one, because it would improve fuel efficiency and control DB is not even close to realistic so idk why that's such a big deal for you, the reality is that there's no way to perfectly powerscale everything and everyone because Akira never really gave much of a F, so there's inconsistencies everywhere Do it better if you can
2:03 Mr Popo's power level is supposed to be 1030? ha! i dont think so. the disrespect! he was more or less able to keep up with gotenks! also what would we do without that legendary farmer?
I always imagine it as, special bardock is how frieza remembers him, and canon bardock is how he actually was, frieza probably heard some reports he probably doesnt remember the details exactly
Althouhh i like the editing and passion put into this video, powerlevels are not linear until you get to the thousands. Theres countless statements in the series stating goku got "several" or "many" times stronger after training with Korrin and Roshi. The power levels in the diazenshu are accurate howevevr the movie ones are not since the movies are stated to take place in alternate dimensions. The movie 6 pamplhet puts tamboruines above prime piccolo in power which would make no sense, however as stated by the director of the movies, the movies take place in a seperate dimension
Another great example of power levels being different in movies due to taking place in other dimensions is that Raditz official power level is 1200 while casual and 1500 when serious however movie 20 cards state him to be 1600 when serious. This doesn't invalidate power levels just means that either 1.Everyone is stronger in the movies or 2. Power levels simply work differently in these movies. Really enjoyed the video either way keep it up
think of this as a way to interpret power levels as consistently linear, as you said theres some statements that push back against the idea, but its just a fun idea
Damn thnegs the whole point of my comment. But yeah with those dimension things it could be the possibility in alternate dimensions that some characters were born as mutants. Or different which might be why Piccolo's kids were so strong and Goku had to get stronger or it's just making the power levels of the past compare to the more linear ones. I see the movies as like a "What-if Toriyama wrote the Turles Saga." Instead. Which is sort of why it happens close to Frieza time hypothetically but they are still on earth maybe not as many humans died because Goku was just stronger and faster and the story changes around even more with it warping the whole reality. Which is possibly why powers in those universes can flucuate so heavily and why Broly might be so cracked he can face a God Goku at full power but still fear Beerus.
The reality is that power levels don't make much sense and are a complete mess because Akira never cared too much about it and used to forget stuff like that all the time resulting in tons and tons of incosistencies and plot holes impossible to fix So no point in wasting so much brain power about it To make it even worse, the usual thing people use to compare the power level of anime characters with other anime characters, you know, stuff like "city level, moon level, planet level, solar system level, etc." is useless and doesn't make any sense either because planet/moon/star busting logic and physics vary wildly in between animes simply due to the authors not being astrophysicist and not having a clue about how though a planet/moon/star really is or how they work, how much damage they are supposed to get, etc. The best example of this is DB's planet busting logic which is SUPER inaccurate, flawed and unrealistic. In DB, all you gotta do to make a planet or moon explode is damage their core significantly. Once you do, the planet either instantly or eventualy explodes depending on how much damage the core received. This is because planet/moon cores are treated as if they were the literal "heart" of a planet, like an energy or power reactor kind of thing, like a literal freaking super "nuclear" (see where the confusion might have come from) bomb of sorts, which is not at all the case IRL or in more realistic animes. Where does this assumption of mine come from? Simple, see how they throw super powerful Ki blasts everywhere yet planet never explodes UNLESS that's their intent? Yet they throw a regular ki blast with no effort into the core of any celestian body and then boom, the planet/moon is gone like nothing? How in the freaking world can 100-200 Ki Roshi and 400 Ki Piccolo destroy the freaking moon???? Even with 1000 Ki or 10k, I think that's quite absurd. People are not aware how massive the Moon is and the ridiculous energy it would take to destroy it, let alone explode it, that's the really ridiculous part, EXPLODING planet/moons into nothingness. The moon is basically just a really small planet or a really big dwarf planet. I think the moon issue tho is a combination of 2 things: Akira not being aware of how massive the moon so treating it kind of like nothing AND not undestanding how a planet/moon core works and the fact they are not a bomb or some kind of fragile delicate nuclear reactor that makes a planet explode in a million pieces if damaged, not even close at all. Another thing that confirms my theory even further about the flawed core busting logic is the fact that they can control this and make planets/moons explode instantly or slowly, like what Frieza did with Namek. It took AGES for Namek to explode, suggesting it wasn't the Ki blast impacting the core that made it explode, but the DAMAGE that the Ki blast caused to the core that led to the planet eventually exploding due to it destabilizing or something of sorts, since everything deteriorated little by little before it exploded.
I dont think power levels are linear, or at least not consistently, roshi blew the moon with at most 500 units, and there is no way 500 average humans blow the moon, my headcanon is that power levels only are a measure to beings that use ki and thats how they get the numbers, after all the scouters read a person in seconds and the best way to read a person's power level in dragon ball is with ki
I don't really agree with those numbers. Let's put it so, martial artists on earth can upper their power when engaging a combat. If raditz is 1200, piccolo and goku in the budokai boosted up to 500-600. King piccolo, when young again, fighting goku, boosted up to 350. Old, he must have been at 250. And, kid goku, in the first episode, must have been around 40-50 already. But ye, they re pretty inconsistent whatsoever. Those power levels only kinda make sense when they were used, during sayan and namek sagas. Before, they don't, after they don't.
"The average person can lift 22.7 kg" ... Dude, where the hell did you pull that number from? Do you know how small that number is? I can lift at least 150 kgs as I am now. When I was still in shape as a power lifter, I could lift well over 200 kg's. The average person can lift about 70 to 80 kg's...
"No one understands Dragon Ball Power Levels" >Immediately starts using non-canon battle powers lol, lmao even. Asserting that battle powers must be linear and thus chapter 1 Goku could not have a battle power of 10, twice that of Farmer with a Shotgun is absurd when you forget that much powerful characters still have battle powers not that much higher numerically than Farmer with a Shotgun. Clearly this means that battle powers CANNOT be linear in scale.
i'll just say, there are no "cannon" battle powers for early db, toryama obviously didn't make the guide power levels so its really all up to our interpretation
@@yurazahMaster Roshi’s canon power level is 139 and that mf literally blew up the moon, if power levels are linear then it would only take 28 shotgun farmers to blow up the moon
You may be good at math but you're horrible at understanding people. krillin was picked on by his bullies his entire life. he's clearly scared of them possbily event mentally/emotionally scared by them and in the battle against the frieza force krillin is shown afraid of them even though he was leagues above them not only then but freaking decades ago! that is to say krillin lacks confidence and thought they'd beat him because he was afraid of them not because of any genuine strength his bullies have. Also while I dont' know for sure what shu is the fact that he dresses as a ninja and wears a sword on his back implies hes trained to some extent in battle so he should probably get a 5 or 6.
Realistically the weapon has a power level and the user has one. If me, an average human has a 4 or 5, and im holding a nuke. I would still be a 4 or 5 with a weapon thats probably 40-50
even if power levels didnt make total sense, ill still take that over supers "krillin can spar with goku now" BS. Im sorry, but goku sneezes wrong and they gotta go get the dragon balls to get krillins bald ass back
Sorry, but linear power levels just doesn't make sense. If random human is a 5, then goku and nam would need to be in the 50000000 range to leap above the clouds (a very consistent feat that several characters have done before the saiyan saga). Also, for Vegeta to be a planet buster at 18.000 cell would be absurdly stronger to destroy the solar system. And then buu, being like, 10× stronger than cell got the whole universe tossed at him and was about to throw it back before they wished to restore Goku's power. The math just isn't mathing dude. Also, father of goku isn't canon. Deal with it.
Mr. Popo is definetly at least at 199 trillion Powerlvl, if not infinite. He's just holding back. He even threatens Vegeta in Dragon Ball Super. ruclips.net/video/Q0j3SQnDP1E/видео.htmlsi=gTCUywfu8blxOKV7
I think something nobody takes into consideration Even yourself is that the power level of roshi and kuririn in the beginning of z is them at rest they probably increase it a lot when they power up for battle Specially roshi with his full power transformation
fun idea, but I don't think its true, goku and piccolo had lowered power when they were picked up by the scouter cause of their weighted training clothing, I don't think toryama started playing with the idea that the cast could suppress themselves till vegeta and nappa showed up , and like I mentioned, there must be a draw back on roshis full power, otherwise why wouldnt he use it against piccolo? (also, goku and piccolos power shot up while useing their beam attacks, but I dont think thats their "true power level" I think its just an effect of charging up a big attack
@@yurazah that's fair That could also work as a headcannon of why the human z fighters became so much stronger than goku was during the one training for the saiyan invasion Maybe the control they got over their own ki allowing them to lower it so much gave them the ki control expertise to skyrocket their power levels
@@MegaMrAlexis that's a good way of justifying their massive gains, now we just gotta figure out how to explain piccolo going from like 2000 to like 200,000 in around 10 days durring the freeza saga...
@yurazah yeah that's always gonna be a hard one to accept Maybe if he had learned the kaioken at least to explain why so strong but no He just became as strong as frieza by spending a week on vacation with king kai and the others I have always told myself that maybe because goku trained alone and piccolo had the others to spar with but that should first make the others at least comparable to piccolo and second it's still a massive gap much bigger than goku got To go from being weaker than nappa to stronger than second form frieza after a week in king kais planet and a fusion to nail
@@MegaMrAlexis ya its wild, oh I double checked, hes probably not over 200,000, he arives on namek and then fuses with nail to beat freeza, so after his fusion hes over a million but before he would have to be vaguely around 42,000 as nail was impressed by how strong piccolo was. like 2000 to 42,000 is still ridiculous tho
See this doesn't fucking work. Because like the only way to make something like this likely work on this side is to assume that the power levels in the early 200's are still linear in which you find inconsistencies where either every character has to be stronger which doesn't make sense because scouters show power levels and you can't have Roshi rivalling Raditz and Goku being several times stronger than that and yet not beat this 1500 at best with his charged Kamehameha. It makes more sense that the early ones worked differently in the same way the series did and powers weren't linear back then as Goku gets several times stronger over and over without even reaching his power level of 260 and then later on gets way stronger when he should be closer to his 400's with his max charged technique being like 900 his Super Kamehameha! I could see Chi-Chi at that level as she has a strong lineage! It's GOKU!!! Bulma gets so much stronger in super. I'm fine with that. Pilaf. OX KING is 900! I like to think he is that strong or at least maybe by the Tree of might Movie time but imagine for funny sake he was that strong and just never did anything. Like that weird octopus that was also weirdly strong. Isn't Goku at 1? RHYME?! Goku has weird durability though that might not reflect his Power level. This is also assuming Farmer with a Shot-Gun is an average human. Turtle is so weak he's somehow like 0.0001% However that's probably old age and life barely keeping him alive and not the fact that he might have some durability still in that shell and won't keel over and die if an insect tries to bite that hard part. But the Farmer with a Shot-Gun can also just be randomly strong and maybe normal humans are a 1 or powers truly are not linear in DB and some of the guides might be showing full potential + what Dragonball powers would be like non-linearly which might make it so Bulma's 12 isn't actually stronger than Goku's 10. I forgot but normally Power levels also have weird things I guess depending on your grade of fighter or how your power level might work in which a small difference like what Vegeta had between himself and Cui and Dodoria and later Zarbon is enough for him to completely dominate them despite him not even being 2X Stronger than them I think in any of the fights. Wouldn't Black also have military training? The Laser might be a multiplicative attack. Krillin THINKS! That's the issue. It's a lack of confidence. He would probably beat all of them. I'm pretty sure Goku was held back and had something with his shoes. And in DBZ the Scene might be Goku stacking multiple Gravity Things since King Kai's planet is already 10X Gravity and then it's possible he lowered his power level or Lifting Strength in DB isn't equivalent to power. Nah... No I think the Max Power Kamehameha is actually cracked and might be 10X When you consider the attack Amp and the Max Power Amp. Yeah because either he can't move or it's the later thing where it might not be a speed amp or a good one and it's straining while only good for powering up his Charged Kamehameha which will just be dodged by a smaller and faster foe. Why wouldn't Piccolo and Goku just be the same power but Goku lacks the ability to fly and such and Piccolo used Cheap shots and Goku got a pseudo Ozaru Amp + Mental possibly in his final attack which made the difference. Yeah. 130. Probably did because of how children can be cracked in the series by potential. I'm maybe being too serious about this but like the multiplier of Goku's attacks should make him Solo Raditz unless he's wildly stronger and then Vegeta and Nappa you would have to believe he has his full power state that doubles his power to 8000 or whatever it's just wild and they probably all get to like Universal in or before the Cell Saga.
There are characters who have better speed despite being weaker than others such as dyspo or burter saw raw speed isn't a great a qualfyer for power level
You're vastly overstating average human strength. First, let's consider the gender difference. On average, women *are* smaller and physically weaker than men - it's just how it is. Not just a little, either. Let's review average strength feats of untrained individuals - and this is recorded over thousands of lifts: the average man with no strength training can bench press a 1 rep maximum of 135 lbs. The average WOMAN, no training, comes in at about 60 lbs max on the same exercise - less than HALF the male average. Keep in mind, this is average, untrained, not counting exceptional cases or "someone I know". The average man, untrained, can curl (1 rep max) 30 lbs with one hand, assuming PROPER form. A strict, proper rep. A woman averages closer to 15 to 20. An average man can overhead press - that's pick it up, bring it to his chin, and press it over his head - a 1 rep maximum of about 70 lbs on a barbell (we're not, once again, including guys who DO work out). That's just ONE time, and he's done - or about 35 lbs on each hand, in other words. The average woman, again, comes in at closer to half that. That seemed low to me, but I asked my wife to lift a 25 lb dumbbell over her head, one-handed, and she failed to. She does not work out. Then you have the next tier - guys who work out a LITTLE - they might get up to 165, 185 bench, for instance, on average. Beginners. They might get 80, 85 lbs up with an overhead press. They might curl 40, 45 lbs once or twice, one-hand. THOSE guys might, if a farmer who lifts heavy bales and does hard labor every day is a 5, be at a 4. The NON-trained average men would then be a 2 to 3. Average untrained WOMEN, then, would be a 1 to 1.5 at most. Then you have farmer tier, a 5. - he can probably put 100, 120 lbs overhead for a few reps. Curls maybe 50, 55 lbs one-handed. Then you have the guys who, like myself, are pretty well conditioned and considerably stronger than average - I've put 125 lbs overhead one-handed, for instance, I regularly curl at minimum 70 to 80 lbs (each hand, dumbbells), I've comfortably put up 180 lbs overhead for reps and if one rep max, might get 250 lbs up overhead. Given that the average man puts up 70 overhead, both hands, this would put mine at a bit over 3x that (untrained couch potato guy) average overhead press, so if an average couch potato is a 2 or 3, then guys around my level would be at a 6 to 9. To err on the side of caution, I'd say 6. We don't want to oVERstate human levels, after all. I've been in a physical contest of strength with an actual farmer, and I overpowered him, so if he's a 5, I'm a 6, that's fair. THEN you have ELITE lifters - guys who can do it at a competitive world or national level. They can put 300+ overhead (two-handed), strict curl 90-100 lbs, etc. They'd be at somewhere between an 10 and 12 Then you'd have the strongest guys on earth - World's Strongest Man winners. Guys like Hafthor "The Mountain" Bjornssson, who is 6'9", over 400 lbs, and can put logs weighing over 450 lbs over his head, deadlift over 1,100 lbs, and can one-handed put up a 270+ lb dumbbell overhead. Monsters like him or Brian Shaw make "sort of strong" guys look like cream puffs. His feats are all over twice mine, and 6 or 7 or so times the untrained couch potato average - so it's only fair to put "World's Strongest Man" level at between 12 on the lowest end and 20 on the higher end. THAT, I think, puts into perspective how crazy even being a power level of 79 would be - though in terms of pure physical strength, Goku even early in dragonball is FAR more than just 4 times world's strongest man levels. He pushes boulder that would first of all have ENORMOS friction to ovecome, and second, weighs at minnimum HUNDREDS of tons - so a 79 would seem to not make SENSE, given that and given his bullet-proof durability, lightning speed, etc. Yet, we KNOW in DBZ even as an adult Goku was only in the 400s, so this presents a dilemma: CLEARLY GOku is more like a THoUSAND times stronger than normal men even back then, yet his power level does not reflect that if the farmer is truly a 5. So here's what I'm thinking: the reading on the farmer is WRONG - the scouter is reading BATTLE POWER - how much ki ENERGY they have in them, not so much how well they can USE it. The farmer with shotgun might HAVE a 5 rating, but in REALITY he can't USE any of it, since he has no idea how to use his energy at ALL. So his LIFTING strength is NOT the same thing as his COMBAT STRENGTH (potential). If someone taught the farmer HOW to use his energy, THEN he could put that 5 to work and do some super-human seeming things EVEN AT 5. But since he has NO training in that area, it's 5 WASTED points. MEANWHILE, someone like Master Roshi at 139 (much higher in his buff form, keep in mind, 139 is his regular state) HAS full control over his ki, so he can USE that 139 for things. What this MEANS is average conditioned guys like farmers have a high spirit energy for a human - and IF they learned how to USE ki, they could do things like...blow up a hillside with a low-tier energy blast, blow up maybe a big AREA around them with that ki. But someone like ROSHI, who in his buff form is in the low hundreds (remember that kamehameha itself has a mutiplier on it so it's stronger than the user's level) can blow up the MOON. IF it's linear, then that must mean EVEN someone with a power level of 5 IF they had mastery OVER that level, could do INSANE amounts of damage if they learned something like kamehameha. But since the farmer can't use it, he's limited to only muscular strength, which is FAR lower than what you could do with ki-infused strength. With his muscles, he can move around 100 lb bales of hay easily. With KI CONTROL, he could probably lift TONS of weight. The world's strongest man, then, might have (for a human) high PHYSICAL strength in his muscles, but his BATTTLE POWER might still read 5 or so. I think that makes WAY more sense than assuming the reading on the farmer means in terms of physical strength he's 1/16th Goku's level at the start - clearly this is not the case when Goku moves around giant boulders weighing 100+ tons. The differencne maker is Goku USES his ki. The farmer does not. This can ALSO be seen in Turtle in DBZ. The scouter puts him at something like 0.001 - yet in terms of physical strength a turtle that size would likely be stronger than the farmer. This means it's not reading PHYSICAL strength but ki signal - which is different. A turtle is "cold blooded" and sluggish and if it has not sunned for a while has very low energy levels - hence, a turtle that big is strong enough to move its 300+ lb bulk around but is too low on energy to move fast or often. This ALSO makes sense when you consider SPIRIT BOMB. Consider majin buu. The people of earth - most of which are at a power level of probably 1 or 2 - providing enough raw power to destroy something on the level of majin buu seems insane. But the spirit bomb doesn't just take ki, it takes LIFE energy, which is another TYPE of energy - one which seems incredibly potent, even in normal humans, blades of grass and bugs. The spirit bomb is seen extracting energy even from insects - clearly bugs and grass would no have any combat power, so it's drawing on something else. That's the OTHER secret here - that in dragonball, there's more than one KIND of energy and MIXING them effectively can have an EXPLOSIVE effect on how powerful you are. Take Tien's "tri-beam" - it's an attack which - according to Roshi - draws on the life essence of the user, not just regular combat power, which results in it potentially killing the user if you overdo it but the trade-off is the attack can be HUNDREDS or THOUSANDS of times stronger than the actual power level of the user - we see this when he keeps Cell pinned with it despite cell being INSANELY far beyond him - hundreds to thousands of times stronger. So maybe THAT is why Roshi's max power kamehameha was able to destroy the MOON - he in that buff form might mix in a bit of life energy - something very taxing on him but which makes the attack exponentially more powerful than if he'd just used ki alone.
It actually makes sense that Arale's power fluctuates randomly from 1 - infinity so it really just depends on the moment.
Time and time again it's proven that power levels are not linear at least until the saiyan saga, so Goku having 10 at the beggining of DB is fine. It's funny how you just take into account the car but ignore all the other strenght and speed statements and showings.
can you give some examples? db has basically no official power levels till the sayian saga, so dont you think its weird to say its non linear in the non power levels era? its alot easier to just ignore the 10
@yurazah Goku takes a whole day to climb Korin's tower at first but he later climbs up and down in just 3 hours.
Goku said that his power doesn't compare to Old King Piccolo's, and Old King Piccolo replies by saying that he wasn't even using half of his strenght.
According to Piano, Old Demon King Piccolo is "nothing" compared to Young King Piccolo.
Piccolo Jr says he has gotten "many times" stronger than Young King Piccolo.
And I'm ignoring the fact that Roshi and Piccolo destroyed the freaking moon.
@@dimitri4888 I see, its hard to keep everything 100% consistent even within your own story (like goku struggling to lift 40 tons) I think anything like this would probably have minor issues, a big underlying idea behind the video is me trying to justify old db having linear powers to be consistent with their depiction in z and I think it works pretty well to be interpreted in this way, but your right that you could argue thoes things and easily blow things out of proportion saying stuff like they got 2x stronger over and over, thats definitely a viable interpretation aswell.
@@dimitri4888 I think you misinterpreted what I said, I basically agreed with you that it was a viable way to interpret events.
@yurazah My bad, tbh I couldn't concentrate well when I was reading your comment and typing that third comment I deleted.
5:00 I know it probably wouldn't change anything, but couldn't we just use the weight of the irl cars for that? Bulma's cars in the manga and promo are a 1980 Renault 5 Turbo and a 1965 Triumph TR4A respectively. Even if they're shown with a superdeformed design I'd still say they weight the same.
11:57: "I'd say Arale's power fluxuates from 1 and infinite"
I literally burst out laughing. That is SO funny.
You gave Major Metallitron, the terminator reference, a 101.
I see what you did there.
Dragon Ball Z writing is inconsistent. Alot of things are not meant to be taken literally or mathematically calculated. Toriyama prefers "fun" over literal power scaling
while id agree with you, toryama had pretty consistent numbers when he used them in the sayian and freeza sagas
@@yurazah I wouldn't say they're consistent at any point of the story, Piccolos power level is 3500 against Nappa who's at 4000 and he doesn't stand a chance even with help from the other Z fighters, meanwhile Goku is having a fairly even fight with a Kaio-Ken X3 power level of 24000 against Vegeta at 15000.
Either way I enjoyed your video trying to make power levels more consistent compared to the "official" power levels of the Daizenshuu.
This is actually pretty well reasoned, most people seem to make pretty wild claims for power levels, honestly I find that ignoring as many guides as possible helps everything make a lot more sense lol.
Unpopular opinion but I actually prefer the og dragon ball (I read the manga btw) because it feels more magical than dbz. You can clearly tell the difference between the chinese inspiration for the og and the western sci-fi inspiration for dbz. Just my opinion tho
Im a huge og fan
Yeah that's cool but DBZ is still better tho. OG Dragon Ball is 80% jokes, gags, and tournaments with basically zero stakes going on. If that fits your vibe better, cool, but it's just way less appealing for most people. Every fight in DBZ has stakes going on, everything is super dramatic, the dialogue goes hard and the one liners go absolutely insane. Everything is generally just bigger, flashier and more important. Dragon Ball feels like an appetizer for DBZ in that sense.
The best villain in OG Dragon Ball is Demon King Piccolo, who ain't even on the mount Rushmore of Dragon Ball villains imo. And no Vegeta or Gohan basically means that DB just doesn't have any interesting characters to speak of at all outside of Piccolo Jr. No disrespect to Tien, he was a fine antagonist, but if he was more interesting Toriyama would have probably used him more than once after that. "But what about Goku" Goku as a kid is a good gag character but that's about it.
Then there's all the weird shit OG Dragon Ball does constantly. Bro if your parents walked in on you watching OG Dragon Ball you'd change the channel. You don't want to have to explain any of that crap. What's with Japanese people and panties.
Basically, I'm saying that OG DB probably does just vibe with you better, but there's many good reasons that opinion ain't popular.
@@GeorgePerakis I disagree with almost everything you said.
I know it's a "super saiyan style" (the style which Trunks, after training with Vegeta tries to use against Cell), but it could make sense that Master Roshi was actually using it in his fight against Uzaru Goku in the second tournament.... it kind of looks just like it, and he did zero dodging while using it, his whole intent was to beef up his power so that he could blow up the moon.
it would also mean that he's used that same technique a couple other times, including when he put out the fire mountain right before Goku learned the Kamehameha, and it would also give some meaning to that whole fake-out when it comes up in DBZ. Trunks had discovered a power that Roshi had learned years ago, and was misapplying it, in a proper martial arts fight against Cell, whereas Roshi was using it in its proper way - Destroying gigantic stationary objects.
just a thought I had while watching this video.
power levels can't be linear. freeza blows up a planet with a power level of 530,000. this would put a normal human at a power level of a whopping 0.00000000000000000000000002. and that's being generous.
@@yurazah the turtle in canon has a power level of 0.001. That same turtle protected maron from 2 human dudes using turtle style lol
Planet busting in the DB universe is way easier than real life planet busting
In DB, all it takes is to "damage the core" of a planet for it to destabilize and explode, which is complete nonsense IRL and not how things work at all, making destroying planets far easier than it would be IRL, planet cores are not bombs, not even close, and the amounts of power required to make a planet "explode" IRL would be absurdly higher. This is confirmed with the fact that even master Roshi and Piccolo were able to blow up the moon with a relatively super weak power level for such an insane feat., Piccolo with just a power level of less than 1000 blew the moon up with no effort at all, and trust me, the moon is massive.
@@SuperKamiGuruu Thats totally non canon, Bulma never read the turtles power in the manga and the whole Maron character its just from the anime.
@@DeMooniCyour point doesn't work since with context we know it's not just destabilizing the core they are destabilizing the gravity which would require as much energy as the gbe of the planet
Also they destroy planets at a subatomic level which would far outclass the gbe
Also proof
And planet busting in db is actually much harder since even earth is 3 to 4× larger than it is irl and the Average planet has the same gbe as a star
Your biggest mistake is forgetting that scouters take equipment into account. Farmer with a shotgun is 5 *because he has a shotgun*. Average human is around PL1. The first time we see Goku, he gets hurt by bullets but not killed. So, PL10 computes.
Kid goku being 10 makes sense the reasons being if you are over like actual 2 times strong as someone you can easily kill them. (Vegeta vs Qui) We see kid goku get hurt by bullets so it isnt that far off to say 10. If it were actually 70 kid goku would geniunly solo the whole series with oozaru. Great video tho
I always view a person wielding a weapon as using the "battle power" of the weapon. like each weapon sort of has a battlepower all its own. The 5 that the Farmer registered wasn't just the farmer himself, it was the battlepower of the farmer wielding a single shot shotgun. Basically pitiful compared to a "Saiyan Elite"
So Launch wouldn't necessarily increase her physical stats by a huge amount, but she's always heavily armed when in her altered state, So it uses the powerlevel of the Gun she uses, which is probably a 7-8? ish? something like that.
honestly I prefer to view Power Levels as something that the people in the series MISTAKENINGLY rely on. They rely on power levels because they think that they have mastered "power" to a point where they can quantify it, but no matter what, Goku proves that their power level scaling is just wrong because he's always able to transcend and reach new heights of power considered impossible before. Basically until Goku brought the concept of "Training" to the universe, the only way for a being to "transcend" their power level in any noticeable way was to change their entire form. The idea that a person could do push ups and improve their power level to the point that it matters at all is laughable to the Frieza society but it's true. They are weaker because they don't train. For the Frieza society the only way to improve your power is to have a secret hidden form, whose static power is stronger then your previous form.
Basically, I think Frieza is completely fundamentally wrong about power levels, and I think the story is much much better when read that way. They're a crutch that people that aren't Goku use as an excuse to not train. So long as they only ever pick on someone with a lower power level then them, then they never have to train and improve themselves, a thing they don't even THINK they can do, because their whole society is based on Power Levels and the Pecking order.
But....... then they decided to post tons of information about power levels, and so the READERS started basically falling into the same trap as Frieza.
and now you're basically doing the same thing and propagating the same mistaken ethos. But that's ok, you seem to have done a lot of good work so I'm quite enjoying the video.
Here’s my two cents on the manner of power levels:
1. A power level of 10 is meant to represent the power of a peak human Athlete in their prime, normal humans with no training or Ki control will rarely get passed 10.
2. The power levels shown are meant to represented as “resting” power levels that are risen with training and ki control, which then can be compressed and make their attacks more powerful than their resting power levels. (Which confuses me on why the hell the Ox King is so high when compared to Roshi.)
3. Power levels are gauged by three factors: Strength, Speed and Ki (Control, compression and power) and is rounded by average (so having a high strength and and a low ki can be the difference between another that has high ki and high strength), a balance in all three is recommended for the best results of power training.
4. Power levels generate a passive ki shield, which lets people tank attacks that a normal person would not survive and either negates or severely reduces the damage taken when being hit by someone weaker than themselves. The Deizenshu states that in order to start doing the maximum damage to someone stronger than you are, you need to be within 20% (resting power level or the compression of your ki attack must be within 20%) of the opponent’s higher power level (eg: you have a power level of 80 and your opponent have a power level of 100), only then will your attacks start hitting their mark (with resistance, but the gap closes as your power level does).
i think it's pretty to infer that Roshi at the beginning of Z is weaker than before because he has been slaking off in the years of peace
isn't 139 not even really Roshi's power level because it was scanned while he was relaxing so he isn't charged up?
Funnily enough I already have my own numbers for this
I just. . made the list for myself, not to share
But it'll be fun comparing my numbers to yours
Edit: 3:11
Okay, first thing is. . I kind of threw this out too. . . I basically did power scaling of Dragon Ball itself first, and *then* fit it into DBZ power levels
It just felt like the way to go about it
Edit 2: Back to the previous point, this actually did bring up issues because if my numbers were correct (obviously they weren't) it would make Tien and Kami actually get *weaker* during the 5 year time skip
That's been fixed by now, but it was kind of funny when it happened
Edit 3: 5:21
How do we *really* know the Farmer with a Shotgun is an average farmer? Maybe he's actually really strong, but we wouldn't really know because the only person we ever see him fight is Raditz who was literally 300 times stronger than him
Shotgun farmer could solo SSJ4 Gogeta
Being a ninja and thus presumably having martial arts training, Shu/Shao/Sho/Shoe whatever the localization calls the little fox guy this time around could easily be in the higher single digits and break nothing in terms of power scale. He'd be the muscle of the group.
Thought you were going to talk about the ninja from muscle tower at first lol
easily one of the most underrated youtubers, and you definitely have a future on yt. earned my subscribe, and ill be watching a lot of you dbz videos.
Young Goku survives bullets to the face because he was a gag manga character at the time btw
PLAYING SPARKING ZERO WHILE WATCHING THIS!!!!!
17:37 that does seem about right for Piccolo at that point, but being unaffected by the Kamehameha at that point probably isn’t a raw power feat. It was just established that Tien was outright immune to that move due to skill and not power, and that had to have been fresh on Toriyama’s mind. I
If always assumed it was like a square root or cube root thing. Or just a made-up thing, because bigger number looks better, especially to kids.
But chuck a square or cube root (or more) over any of those numbers, and power disparities seem more reasonable (but does make Farmer more likely to blow up moons when drunk)
I only use actual feats that we see and never some third party guides bc those guides never know what they're talking about (like the GT Perfect Files saying Buu Saga Vegito *may* be stronger than SS4, which many people use to lowball GT's scaling without ever looking at any feats.)
also thank you for mentioning that Z Bardock is in the manga, therefore making Super not canon to the original series
Great video, as someone who's also dabbled into this stuff I can appreciate the effort that's put into this! I'm going to check out the Sparking Zero BP video after this and I hope you continue making content like this. I want to say, though, over the years I've NEVER seen anyone actually take the Movie 3 Pamphlet numbers seriously so please let me know who you've seen using them because I want to see what kind of person would do that.
About the Kid Goku being just a 10 thing; I know the out-of-universe explanation is that the staff just didn't think about it that much but in-universe I've always thought of the Scouter numbers to follow a kind of logarithmic function where the gap between, say, 5 and 10 would be exponential but the gap between 50,000 and 100,000 would be linear.
It makes sense for Frieza's army where even the weaker soldiers like Raditz have a battle power of 1,500 and can nuke entire continents in a single attack so instead of their energy level being 1.5 x 10^29 Joules it's just 1,500 with no unit. Then backtracking from that number, if it were linear, both someone like a regular human and a trained martial artist like Kid Goku would have a battle power of almost 0. So it could make sense why the numbers are 5 and 10 instead for readability's sake, both in-universe and out-of-universe.
You could even argue that the power levels get more linear at the end so that when Frieza pulls out his "My power level is 530,000" it appears that much more intimidating. Like the soldiers think that two guys with a PL of 5 have no chance against a guy with a PL of 10 and so Frieza with his massive 530k numba is absolutely unsurpassable but they'd be wrong because they CAN surpass him just by ranging a few parks with Android 17.
The power levels getting linear at the end also explains why Piccolo can jump from 3,500 in the Saiyan Arc to over 250,000 in the Namek arc in just a few days; it just appears like a big jump according to the power level system when in reality it's more or less his regular rate of growth.
ya I agree that the non linear interpretation works and is obviously the widely accepted interpretation, I thought it would be interesting to push back against that a bit here. also the specific example of movie 3 pamphlet, alot of bigger db creators who dont look that deep into power levels have used it, like masako x has used the ox king 900 level before, tho keep in mind he cares very little for power scaling and his videos prioritize narrative even if it dosent make sense power wise (also the sz video is kinda low effort, I didnt expect this one to do so well, I'll have to make more like this in the future.)
My king came to save us 😩🙏🏻
Love Dragon ball but i don't think Freeza should've gotten a power level in his first form. It was also a mistake to give him a level in the millions in his 2nd form. At least the numbers were ignored after Namek
it can be hard to balance your story and maintain narrative tension when everyone has an exact number, that being said, while hard, it can add alot to your story when done well, like alot of the power levels in db are only introduced to be subverted later, like goku and piccolo still winning while at a massive disadvantage.
@@yurazah i agree. Great video.
Surprised this doesnt have way more views, great video!
👍 It’s genuine quality
One mistake i notice, you said the Time Skip was 5 years, but actually it is 3 years, they changed the number of years between each Tenkaichi Budokai;
what part was that? I might have been referring to the timeskip between og db and z, if not I might mention the mistake in the description
Underrated youtuber, i love how you, eplain everything
thank you!
No way you put the average soldier above black. The guy punched Goku into a wall that he was stuck in for a few seconds. That's at least 10 or 9
Good to see Im not the only one that noticed the nonsense of that lol, Black is far stronger than a 6 or the average soldier for sure
This is a good video. It's also edited great. Hope to see more from you.
thank u! I have some more stuff like this planned
1:18 18,000, not 180,000.
1:43 Toriyama said he wished he had a guide handy like the Daizenshuu, giving it his seal of approval. One has to concede the Battle Powers are not linear even without the Daizenshuu, since working backwards from the Farmer's 5 and Goku's ~334-924 simply does not leave enough of a gap for the listed powers in the text of the original manga. Daizenshuu just codifies it. The entire video seems to ignore that the destruction of Moon cannot be divided to any human level with only a few hundred values to go by.
2:30 Those are not Battle Powers. They are Battle Points, and the movies are not canon to the manga to begin with, so these values can easily be tossed out.
3:20 Perhaps using TeamFourStar with a gag referring to a version of Broli that does not exist is not the best way to start one's argument. Even if the special is dubiously canon, certain elements have certainly been tossed out, and Goku's Battle Power might be one of the first to go.
5:27 Early sources said that Goku literally had twice the strength of an average man (sort of like the logic used for Manwolf later). That is how 10 is calculated. Probably wrong given the aforementioned lifting feat, but oh well.
5:34 Those same guides insinuate Goku's skin was especially tough, possibly beyond his own strength. Retroactively, might be that Saiyans are just more difficult to kill than they can inflict.
7:46 Tenshinhan was 180 and stated equal in power to Goku, either way.
8:29 His Dodonpa is actually stated stronger than Kuririn's Kamehameha at that point.
12:07 He was actually beating him before resorting to paralysis, though it was competitive.
12:25 Shown/stated to be stronger than Goku.
12:35 Electricity, not a laser.
Artificial Humans do not have actual Battle Powers since they lack ki which is used for the determining of Battle Powers. Should be noted any readings would essentially be estimates of what their Battle Power would be (B.P.E).
17:50 It is stated he became multiple times stronger, actually, which is another clear example of the non-linear scaling.
18:50 His defeat by Piccolo would also give one since his heart literally stopped.
20:10 The two are also stated to be equal.
I didnt really get the impression Nam was more powerful than Geeran. Like, I could see him losing to Geeran.
11:10 Black tanked a few hits from Goku and kinda stood up to him. I'd argue 20 or 30 or so lol.
huh, I musta missed that
Wait, people think early dragonball has a greater than 1:1 power level scaling? I never heard that before. I'm not really a power scaler, I rarely watch videos on the topic, but when talking with friends, the feats vs the power never really made much sense to us, like a moon can be destroyed by first tournament Roshi, yet somehow Namek can survive any attack from Frieza? That makes no sense using linear power scaling, even if he was holding back some, he should be able to explode a planet with a death beam from his pinkie even if his finger was broken and Frieza was on life support. The actual application of the power just doesn't translate well, to me, or my friends. They just said power levels were bullshit, but I said "what if they're logarithmic?" So the stronger you get the less noticeable the difference is approaching infinity towards 0. This would also explain why a move like Tien's Neo Tri Beam could stop Semi-Perfect Cell. Cell's power level should be 10 or 100x what Tien is capable of even if Tien were able to give himself a temporary SSJ 50x boost by concentrating his ki. But if Neo Tri beam were to use a linear multiplier and power levels were at least somewhat logarithmic, suddenly this feat can make a lot more sense. Suddenly the characters like Chaotzu even being able to see the movements of character far stronger than them makes at least a little sense. Power levels could easily equate to an amount of work or energy, while the actual results, due to diminishing returns, don't scale as high. Alternatively, you could frame that as meaning there is wasted energy the more energy you use/have. Which would actually make Ultra Instinct's real effect and what it says it does match up a lot better. Ultra Instinct is supposedly not so much as power up as it is using your energy naturally and effortlessly. Well, given a logarithmic model, suddenly it makes sense how this form/technique that goes on top of Goku's base can outscale Kaioken x20 SSJ Blue. Because even with 20x the power and a super saiyan form on top of his base, Goku would be at a scale where his forms waste so much energy that a fully utilized base could outperform a supposed, let's just say 1000x boost for SSJ + Kaioken 20x. This would also explain why Goku could fight someone who is powerful enough to require that type of boost just to compete with from his base form without getting instantly wiped out, such as by Hit. Hit fought SSJ Blue gokus relatively on par, but the 10x barely gave Goku an edge. There are some moments in Z that feel similar, such as how SSJ2 Majin Vegeta being able to compete nearly on level with Fat Buu. Still weaker, but close enough to be able to avoid being instantly wiped and also being able to pull off moves that could shred Buu apart. Say that's 80%. Goku was about equal to that Vegeta and had a supposed 4x multiplier on top of that, so 320% Buu. Goku could've hit Buu once at half power and split him in half with that type of a power difference if power levels were linear
Similarly this works for kid Gohan jumping Frieza's various forms, even if he had rage boosts helping him out. Piccolo holding off 50% Frieza for Goku to charge the Spirit bomb when he couldn't keep up with form 3, which was somewhere in the realm of 3% or 4% of that 50% Frieza. And he did that somewhat fatigued with a boost from fatigued Gohan and Krillin, who were both weaker than Piccolo. He would need to get at least 10x as strong as he was fresh just to stand a chance of holding the Frieza of that time off for even a second, but he pulls it off. Stuff like that makes me feel like the linear power thing is mostly BS
Bruh always the same...
Everyone seems to not see the simple fact that planest busting logic in DB universe simply makes no sense which is why they can easily destroy planets and moons with barely any effort.
Planets in DB universe work VERY differently to real planets. In DB, a planet's/moon's core is like a planets heart, like a literaly nuclear/energy core of sorts that, if damaged and "destabilized", results in the entire planet exploding instantly or after a while depending on how much damage it received from the attacker, as we can see with Namek getting worse and worse with time until it explodes, confirming that it's not just the Ki explosion from Freezer that makes everything explode but the core it's self exploding from the damage received, which is nonsense and not at all how planets work.
IRL, that doesn't work like that... AT ALL, a planet's core is just a ball of metal and no planet would ever explode no matter how much you "damage the core", it's just a ball of super hot pressurised solid/liquid metal that might or might not influence in tectonics, volcanism and is the source of a planet's magnetic field... But that's it, it's not a planets "heart" or some kind of nuclear/energy reactor thingy like DB seems to imply.
This is why absolutely everyone gets comparisons in between DBZ characters and other anime or media characters absolutely wrong, because Roshi is not "moon level", nor is Piccolo, nor is early Goku and maybe even Frieza isn't, who knows, planet busting is just so ridiculously easy in DB that it's impossible to compare, DB astrophysics just make no sense. Early DBZ characters would absolutelly not be able to destroy the moon with real life physics, or other animes physics for that matter.
This also solves the question of how they can fight and throw Ki blasts everywhere without destroying the planet but at the same time make the planet explode with a simple attack using little to no effort, because planet/moon cores in DB are just stupidly fragile and a fucking super powerful bomb lol
My theory is that power levels are exponential like someone with a power level of 5 is more than five times stronger than someone with a power level 1 that can explain why roshi was able to obliterate the moon with a PL of 160
Yes yes good shit
If power levels were actually linear, Vegeta would be FAR more than 4000 times stronger than a human... You would need to be millions, perhaps BILLIONS of times more powerful than a human in order to destroy a planet.
I think the car being your base for scaling using normal weight measurements doesn't make sense - remember - bulma is carrying *several* in her bag. capsule corp items must be rather light.
Daizenshuu should be trusted and everyone’s Power Levels is correct. The powerscaling in Dragon Ball works in such a way that if the first is at least twice as strong as the second, this means that he is much times stronger than him in strength, speed and defense.
Frieza in his second form with a power level of 1,000,000 is capable of destroying the universe. In the Trunks arc, all the characters have 200 million and each is capable of defeating Frieza with one blow, in the Cell games arc, all the characters after training have above 500 billion, and I’m generally silent about the Buu saga, there is a redistribution of quadrillions.
Scale power level:
10: build level
100: moon level
1000: planet level
10k: star level
100k: galaxy level
1mln: universe level
10mln: multiverse level
100mln: hyperverse level
Results: Goku (Namek saga, Super Saiyan) with 150mln power levels is hyperversal
Eh
Nice vid man i subbed
bulma csr was weigh 1ton when he lifted it in their first encounter it was model after a small car in our world that weighed the same
I think it’s dishonest to compare a movie pamphlet and the databook. Power level doesn’t just correlate pure strength it calculates many aspects I don’t agree with hypothetically 79.
to be fair, I basically disapproved of both, I had initially given goku a 91 at that part, (assuming the car was heavier) but as I kept going it didnt work, so I had to go back and lower goku so everything else would fit better
Power Level/Fight level or whatever is just meassuring raw KI, which is why a machine can read it, otherwise it makes no sense how a machine can read how "skilled" you are, so that's never taken into account
Consider that "1" power level could very well mean the power of one average person
It makes more sense to me this way than quantifying it as some sort of physical Stat, because I would place bulma and most normal characters around 1, but the farmer with a shot gun only being marginally more powerfull than an unarmed average warrior doesn't make much sense
That is to say if we're counting accessories and weapons into their power level, that's how bulma could be where she was at
I don't know if Ox King was NECESSARILY weaker then Roshi because he needed Roshi's help. Ox King, at least in old Dragon Ball, is really really really really dumb. and Intelligence doesn't really factor into Power levels, so he could have twice as much power as Roshi, but if he's doing all stupid things, and Roshi does one smart thing, it can seem like Roshi is much stronger when really he's just smarter.
Just a thought though really
Its almost like toriyama never intended for power levels to be so important to the series or something haha isn't that weird?
5:00 I'm not posative but that looks like an Honda S600 or old british Austin Healey MG or something. probably weighs around 1500 pounds. those old itty bitty roadsters are not heavy
In the beginning you say "Well a car is probably 30% less than a car on our planet..." Earth literally IS our planet. You're just pulling stuff out of nowhere to fit numbers. Not a good start.
What he probably meant with that is, since DB's Earth tech is way more advanced, he assumed that car might be lighter...? IDK lol
Also the DB universe, Earth included, is VERY different in a ton of ways, including things as basic as continents, countries and much more. There's fucking dinosaurs, monsters, superhuman strenght, the whole ki blast and ki control stuff, etc.
Hell, they can put houses and cars inside a freaking little capsule that somehow supresses the weight of whatever is inside, who is to say they can't make cars lighter? It's an assumption for sure, but nothing crazy or unrealistic for DB standards at all.
And in case you wonder WHY they would make a car lighter, that's an easy one, because it would improve fuel efficiency and control
DB is not even close to realistic so idk why that's such a big deal for you, the reality is that there's no way to perfectly powerscale everything and everyone because Akira never really gave much of a F, so there's inconsistencies everywhere
Do it better if you can
Agreed
2:03 Mr Popo's power level is supposed to be 1030? ha! i dont think so. the disrespect! he was more or less able to keep up with gotenks! also what would we do without that legendary farmer?
I always imagine it as, special bardock is how frieza remembers him, and canon bardock is how he actually was, frieza probably heard some reports he probably doesnt remember the details exactly
so cool.
UNDERRATED
Althouhh i like the editing and passion put into this video, powerlevels are not linear until you get to the thousands. Theres countless statements in the series stating goku got "several" or "many" times stronger after training with Korrin and Roshi. The power levels in the diazenshu are accurate howevevr the movie ones are not since the movies are stated to take place in alternate dimensions. The movie 6 pamplhet puts tamboruines above prime piccolo in power which would make no sense, however as stated by the director of the movies, the movies take place in a seperate dimension
Another great example of power levels being different in movies due to taking place in other dimensions is that Raditz official power level is 1200 while casual and 1500 when serious however movie 20 cards state him to be 1600 when serious. This doesn't invalidate power levels just means that either 1.Everyone is stronger in the movies or 2. Power levels simply work differently in these movies. Really enjoyed the video either way keep it up
think of this as a way to interpret power levels as consistently linear, as you said theres some statements that push back against the idea, but its just a fun idea
Damn thnegs the whole point of my comment.
But yeah with those dimension things it could be the possibility in alternate dimensions that some characters were born as mutants.
Or different which might be why Piccolo's kids were so strong and Goku had to get stronger or it's just making the power levels of the past compare to the more linear ones.
I see the movies as like a "What-if Toriyama wrote the Turles Saga." Instead. Which is sort of why it happens close to Frieza time hypothetically but they are still on earth maybe not as many humans died because Goku was just stronger and faster and the story changes around even more with it warping the whole reality.
Which is possibly why powers in those universes can flucuate so heavily and why Broly might be so cracked he can face a God Goku at full power but still fear Beerus.
The reality is that power levels don't make much sense and are a complete mess because Akira never cared too much about it and used to forget stuff like that all the time resulting in tons and tons of incosistencies and plot holes impossible to fix
So no point in wasting so much brain power about it
To make it even worse, the usual thing people use to compare the power level of anime characters with other anime characters, you know, stuff like "city level, moon level, planet level, solar system level, etc." is useless and doesn't make any sense either because planet/moon/star busting logic and physics vary wildly in between animes simply due to the authors not being astrophysicist and not having a clue about how though a planet/moon/star really is or how they work, how much damage they are supposed to get, etc.
The best example of this is DB's planet busting logic which is SUPER inaccurate, flawed and unrealistic. In DB, all you gotta do to make a planet or moon explode is damage their core significantly. Once you do, the planet either instantly or eventualy explodes depending on how much damage the core received. This is because planet/moon cores are treated as if they were the literal "heart" of a planet, like an energy or power reactor kind of thing, like a literal freaking super "nuclear" (see where the confusion might have come from) bomb of sorts, which is not at all the case IRL or in more realistic animes.
Where does this assumption of mine come from? Simple, see how they throw super powerful Ki blasts everywhere yet planet never explodes UNLESS that's their intent? Yet they throw a regular ki blast with no effort into the core of any celestian body and then boom, the planet/moon is gone like nothing?
How in the freaking world can 100-200 Ki Roshi and 400 Ki Piccolo destroy the freaking moon???? Even with 1000 Ki or 10k, I think that's quite absurd. People are not aware how massive the Moon is and the ridiculous energy it would take to destroy it, let alone explode it, that's the really ridiculous part, EXPLODING planet/moons into nothingness. The moon is basically just a really small planet or a really big dwarf planet. I think the moon issue tho is a combination of 2 things: Akira not being aware of how massive the moon so treating it kind of like nothing AND not undestanding how a planet/moon core works and the fact they are not a bomb or some kind of fragile delicate nuclear reactor that makes a planet explode in a million pieces if damaged, not even close at all.
Another thing that confirms my theory even further about the flawed core busting logic is the fact that they can control this and make planets/moons explode instantly or slowly, like what Frieza did with Namek. It took AGES for Namek to explode, suggesting it wasn't the Ki blast impacting the core that made it explode, but the DAMAGE that the Ki blast caused to the core that led to the planet eventually exploding due to it destabilizing or something of sorts, since everything deteriorated little by little before it exploded.
I'm from future
*I see you with 1m subscribers when u reach it show this comment* .
I dont think power levels are linear, or at least not consistently, roshi blew the moon with at most 500 units, and there is no way 500 average humans blow the moon, my headcanon is that power levels only are a measure to beings that use ki and thats how they get the numbers, after all the scouters read a person in seconds and the best way to read a person's power level in dragon ball is with ki
I don't really agree with those numbers. Let's put it so, martial artists on earth can upper their power when engaging a combat. If raditz is 1200, piccolo and goku in the budokai boosted up to 500-600. King piccolo, when young again, fighting goku, boosted up to 350. Old, he must have been at 250. And, kid goku, in the first episode, must have been around 40-50 already. But ye, they re pretty inconsistent whatsoever. Those power levels only kinda make sense when they were used, during sayan and namek sagas. Before, they don't, after they don't.
"The average person can lift 22.7 kg" ... Dude, where the hell did you pull that number from? Do you know how small that number is? I can lift at least 150 kgs as I am now. When I was still in shape as a power lifter, I could lift well over 200 kg's. The average person can lift about 70 to 80 kg's...
"No one understands Dragon Ball Power Levels"
>Immediately starts using non-canon battle powers
lol, lmao even.
Asserting that battle powers must be linear and thus chapter 1 Goku could not have a battle power of 10, twice that of Farmer with a Shotgun is absurd when you forget that much powerful characters still have battle powers not that much higher numerically than Farmer with a Shotgun. Clearly this means that battle powers CANNOT be linear in scale.
i'll just say, there are no "cannon" battle powers for early db, toryama obviously didn't make the guide power levels so its really all up to our interpretation
@@yurazah Bro said "Cannon"
@@yurazahMaster Roshi’s canon power level is 139 and that mf literally blew up the moon, if power levels are linear then it would only take 28 shotgun farmers to blow up the moon
Ah i love the og
Good vid bro
I dont believe yamcha, krillin, and tien dont surpass roshi until they train with king kai
You may be good at math but you're horrible at understanding people. krillin was picked on by his bullies his entire life. he's clearly scared of them possbily event mentally/emotionally scared by them and in the battle against the frieza force krillin is shown afraid of them even though he was leagues above them not only then but freaking decades ago! that is to say krillin lacks confidence and thought they'd beat him because he was afraid of them not because of any genuine strength his bullies have.
Also while I dont' know for sure what shu is the fact that he dresses as a ninja and wears a sword on his back implies hes trained to some extent in battle so he should probably get a 5 or 6.
Farmer with Shotgun Solos Angels+ Zeno In my opinion.
Do weapons count as part of power level?, cause bulma with an amazing gun might beat kid goku
Realistically the weapon has a power level and the user has one. If me, an average human has a 4 or 5, and im holding a nuke. I would still be a 4 or 5 with a weapon thats probably 40-50
Keep it up bro ❤❤
Launch ain’t no 3, she like a 7. Bro calling her below mid
even if power levels didnt make total sense, ill still take that over supers "krillin can spar with goku now" BS. Im sorry, but goku sneezes wrong and they gotta go get the dragon balls to get krillins bald ass back
Sorry, but linear power levels just doesn't make sense.
If random human is a 5, then goku and nam would need to be in the 50000000 range to leap above the clouds (a very consistent feat that several characters have done before the saiyan saga).
Also, for Vegeta to be a planet buster at 18.000 cell would be absurdly stronger to destroy the solar system.
And then buu, being like, 10× stronger than cell got the whole universe tossed at him and was about to throw it back before they wished to restore Goku's power.
The math just isn't mathing dude.
Also, father of goku isn't canon. Deal with it.
The higher the number gets i bet the difference doesnt matter as much
Mr. Popo is definetly at least at 199 trillion Powerlvl, if not infinite. He's just holding back. He even threatens Vegeta in Dragon Ball Super. ruclips.net/video/Q0j3SQnDP1E/видео.htmlsi=gTCUywfu8blxOKV7
I think something nobody takes into consideration
Even yourself is that the power level of roshi and kuririn in the beginning of z is them at rest they probably increase it a lot when they power up for battle
Specially roshi with his full power transformation
fun idea, but I don't think its true, goku and piccolo had lowered power when they were picked up by the scouter cause of their weighted training clothing, I don't think toryama started playing with the idea that the cast could suppress themselves till vegeta and nappa showed up , and like I mentioned, there must be a draw back on roshis full power, otherwise why wouldnt he use it against piccolo? (also, goku and piccolos power shot up while useing their beam attacks, but I dont think thats their "true power level" I think its just an effect of charging up a big attack
@@yurazah that's fair
That could also work as a headcannon of why the human z fighters became so much stronger than goku was during the one training for the saiyan invasion
Maybe the control they got over their own ki allowing them to lower it so much gave them the ki control expertise to skyrocket their power levels
@@MegaMrAlexis that's a good way of justifying their massive gains, now we just gotta figure out how to explain piccolo going from like 2000 to like 200,000 in around 10 days durring the freeza saga...
@yurazah yeah that's always gonna be a hard one to accept
Maybe if he had learned the kaioken at least to explain why so strong but no
He just became as strong as frieza by spending a week on vacation with king kai and the others
I have always told myself that maybe because goku trained alone and piccolo had the others to spar with but that should first make the others at least comparable to piccolo and second it's still a massive gap much bigger than goku got
To go from being weaker than nappa to stronger than second form frieza after a week in king kais planet and a fusion to nail
@@MegaMrAlexis ya its wild, oh I double checked, hes probably not over 200,000, he arives on namek and then fuses with nail to beat freeza, so after his fusion hes over a million but before he would have to be vaguely around 42,000 as nail was impressed by how strong piccolo was. like 2000 to 42,000 is still ridiculous tho
eml calls jackie chun a star buster 🤭
Roshi base level 139 but he isnt powered up... at least x2 in 100%
See this doesn't fucking work.
Because like the only way to make something like this likely work on this side is to assume that the power levels in the early 200's are still linear in which you find inconsistencies where either every character has to be stronger which doesn't make sense because scouters show power levels and you can't have Roshi rivalling Raditz and Goku being several times stronger than that and yet not beat this 1500 at best with his charged Kamehameha.
It makes more sense that the early ones worked differently in the same way the series did and powers weren't linear back then as Goku gets several times stronger over and over without even reaching his power level of 260 and then later on gets way stronger when he should be closer to his 400's with his max charged technique being like 900 his Super Kamehameha!
I could see Chi-Chi at that level as she has a strong lineage!
It's GOKU!!!
Bulma gets so much stronger in super.
I'm fine with that.
Pilaf.
OX KING is 900!
I like to think he is that strong or at least maybe by the Tree of might Movie time but imagine for funny sake he was that strong and just never did anything.
Like that weird octopus that was also weirdly strong.
Isn't Goku at 1?
RHYME?!
Goku has weird durability though that might not reflect his Power level.
This is also assuming Farmer with a Shot-Gun is an average human.
Turtle is so weak he's somehow like 0.0001% However that's probably old age and life barely keeping him alive and not the fact that he might have some durability still in that shell and won't keel over and die if an insect tries to bite that hard part.
But the Farmer with a Shot-Gun can also just be randomly strong and maybe normal humans are a 1 or powers truly are not linear in DB and some of the guides might be showing full potential + what Dragonball powers would be like non-linearly which might make it so Bulma's 12 isn't actually stronger than Goku's 10.
I forgot but normally Power levels also have weird things I guess depending on your grade of fighter or how your power level might work in which a small difference like what Vegeta had between himself and Cui and Dodoria and later Zarbon is enough for him to completely dominate them despite him not even being 2X Stronger than them I think in any of the fights.
Wouldn't Black also have military training?
The Laser might be a multiplicative attack.
Krillin THINKS!
That's the issue.
It's a lack of confidence. He would probably beat all of them.
I'm pretty sure Goku was held back and had something with his shoes.
And in DBZ the Scene might be Goku stacking multiple Gravity Things since King Kai's planet is already 10X Gravity and then it's possible he lowered his power level or Lifting Strength in DB isn't equivalent to power.
Nah...
No I think the Max Power Kamehameha is actually cracked and might be 10X When you consider the attack Amp and the Max Power Amp.
Yeah because either he can't move or it's the later thing where it might not be a speed amp or a good one and it's straining while only good for powering up his Charged Kamehameha which will just be dodged by a smaller and faster foe.
Why wouldn't Piccolo and Goku just be the same power but Goku lacks the ability to fly and such and Piccolo used Cheap shots and Goku got a pseudo Ozaru Amp + Mental possibly in his final attack which made the difference.
Yeah. 130.
Probably did because of how children can be cracked in the series by potential.
I'm maybe being too serious about this but like the multiplier of Goku's attacks should make him Solo Raditz unless he's wildly stronger and then Vegeta and Nappa you would have to believe he has his full power state that doubles his power to 8000 or whatever it's just wild and they probably all get to like Universal in or before the Cell Saga.
yeah you got a future on yt bro. You're talented. Earned my sub.
tnk u☺
Yes I watched it
There are characters who have better speed despite being weaker than others such as dyspo or burter saw raw speed isn't a great a qualfyer for power level
no way ts dude has 79 subs😭 sum ppl js hate clicking the sub button
1:45 no, you literally don't know lol toriyama himself is on record cosigning the daizenshuu
Popo is the strongest so this is clearly negative infinity Percent of his power
Even then it’s beyond infinite
You're vastly overstating average human strength. First, let's consider the gender difference. On average, women *are* smaller and physically weaker than men - it's just how it is. Not just a little, either. Let's review average strength feats of untrained individuals - and this is recorded over thousands of lifts: the average man with no strength training can bench press a 1 rep maximum of 135 lbs. The average WOMAN, no training, comes in at about 60 lbs max on the same exercise - less than HALF the male average. Keep in mind, this is average, untrained, not counting exceptional cases or "someone I know". The average man, untrained, can curl (1 rep max) 30 lbs with one hand, assuming PROPER form. A strict, proper rep. A woman averages closer to 15 to 20. An average man can overhead press - that's pick it up, bring it to his chin, and press it over his head - a 1 rep maximum of about 70 lbs on a barbell (we're not, once again, including guys who DO work out). That's just ONE time, and he's done - or about 35 lbs on each hand, in other words. The average woman, again, comes in at closer to half that. That seemed low to me, but I asked my wife to lift a 25 lb dumbbell over her head, one-handed, and she failed to. She does not work out.
Then you have the next tier - guys who work out a LITTLE - they might get up to 165, 185 bench, for instance, on average. Beginners. They might get 80, 85 lbs up with an overhead press. They might curl 40, 45 lbs once or twice, one-hand. THOSE guys might, if a farmer who lifts heavy bales and does hard labor every day is a 5, be at a 4. The NON-trained average men would then be a 2 to 3. Average untrained WOMEN, then, would be a 1 to 1.5 at most.
Then you have farmer tier, a 5. - he can probably put 100, 120 lbs overhead for a few reps. Curls maybe 50, 55 lbs one-handed.
Then you have the guys who, like myself, are pretty well conditioned and considerably stronger than average - I've put 125 lbs overhead one-handed, for instance, I regularly curl at minimum 70 to 80 lbs (each hand, dumbbells), I've comfortably put up 180 lbs overhead for reps and if one rep max, might get 250 lbs up overhead. Given that the average man puts up 70 overhead, both hands, this would put mine at a bit over 3x that (untrained couch potato guy) average overhead press, so if an average couch potato is a 2 or 3, then guys around my level would be at a 6 to 9. To err on the side of caution, I'd say 6. We don't want to oVERstate human levels, after all. I've been in a physical contest of strength with an actual farmer, and I overpowered him, so if he's a 5, I'm a 6, that's fair.
THEN you have ELITE lifters - guys who can do it at a competitive world or national level. They can put 300+ overhead (two-handed), strict curl 90-100 lbs, etc.
They'd be at somewhere between an 10 and 12
Then you'd have the strongest guys on earth - World's Strongest Man winners. Guys like Hafthor "The Mountain" Bjornssson, who is 6'9", over 400 lbs, and can put logs weighing over 450 lbs over his head, deadlift over 1,100 lbs, and can one-handed put up a 270+ lb dumbbell overhead. Monsters like him or Brian Shaw make "sort of strong" guys look like cream puffs. His feats are all over twice mine, and 6 or 7 or so times the untrained couch potato average - so it's only fair to put "World's Strongest Man" level at between 12 on the lowest end and 20 on the higher end.
THAT, I think, puts into perspective how crazy even being a power level of 79 would be - though in terms of pure physical strength, Goku even early in dragonball is FAR more than just 4 times world's strongest man levels. He pushes boulder that would first of all have ENORMOS friction to ovecome, and second, weighs at minnimum HUNDREDS of tons - so a 79 would seem to not make SENSE, given that and given his bullet-proof durability, lightning speed, etc. Yet, we KNOW in DBZ even as an adult Goku was only in the 400s, so this presents a dilemma: CLEARLY GOku is more like a THoUSAND times stronger than normal men even back then, yet his power level does not reflect that if the farmer is truly a 5.
So here's what I'm thinking: the reading on the farmer is WRONG - the scouter is reading BATTLE POWER - how much ki ENERGY they have in them, not so much how well they can USE it. The farmer with shotgun might HAVE a 5 rating, but in REALITY he can't USE any of it, since he has no idea how to use his energy at ALL. So his LIFTING strength is NOT the same thing as his COMBAT STRENGTH (potential). If someone taught the farmer HOW to use his energy, THEN he could put that 5 to work and do some super-human seeming things EVEN AT 5. But since he has NO training in that area, it's 5 WASTED points. MEANWHILE, someone like Master Roshi at 139 (much higher in his buff form, keep in mind, 139 is his regular state) HAS full control over his ki, so he can USE that 139 for things.
What this MEANS is average conditioned guys like farmers have a high spirit energy for a human - and IF they learned how to USE ki, they could do things like...blow up a hillside with a low-tier energy blast, blow up maybe a big AREA around them with that ki. But someone like ROSHI, who in his buff form is in the low hundreds (remember that kamehameha itself has a mutiplier on it so it's stronger than the user's level) can blow up the MOON. IF it's linear, then that must mean EVEN someone with a power level of 5 IF they had mastery OVER that level, could do INSANE amounts of damage if they learned something like kamehameha. But since the farmer can't use it, he's limited to only muscular strength, which is FAR lower than what you could do with ki-infused strength. With his muscles, he can move around 100 lb bales of hay easily. With KI CONTROL, he could probably lift TONS of weight. The world's strongest man, then, might have (for a human) high PHYSICAL strength in his muscles, but his BATTTLE POWER might still read 5 or so.
I think that makes WAY more sense than assuming the reading on the farmer means in terms of physical strength he's 1/16th Goku's level at the start - clearly this is not the case when Goku moves around giant boulders weighing 100+ tons. The differencne maker is Goku USES his ki. The farmer does not. This can ALSO be seen in Turtle in DBZ. The scouter puts him at something like 0.001 - yet in terms of physical strength a turtle that size would likely be stronger than the farmer. This means it's not reading PHYSICAL strength but ki signal - which is different. A turtle is "cold blooded" and sluggish and if it has not sunned for a while has very low energy levels - hence, a turtle that big is strong enough to move its 300+ lb bulk around but is too low on energy to move fast or often.
This ALSO makes sense when you consider SPIRIT BOMB. Consider majin buu. The people of earth - most of which are at a power level of probably 1 or 2 - providing enough raw power to destroy something on the level of majin buu seems insane. But the spirit bomb doesn't just take ki, it takes LIFE energy, which is another TYPE of energy - one which seems incredibly potent, even in normal humans, blades of grass and bugs. The spirit bomb is seen extracting energy even from insects - clearly bugs and grass would no have any combat power, so it's drawing on something else. That's the OTHER secret here - that in dragonball, there's more than one KIND of energy and MIXING them effectively can have an EXPLOSIVE effect on how powerful you are. Take Tien's "tri-beam" - it's an attack which - according to Roshi - draws on the life essence of the user, not just regular combat power, which results in it potentially killing the user if you overdo it but the trade-off is the attack can be HUNDREDS or THOUSANDS of times stronger than the actual power level of the user - we see this when he keeps Cell pinned with it despite cell being INSANELY far beyond him - hundreds to thousands of times stronger. So maybe THAT is why Roshi's max power kamehameha was able to destroy the MOON - he in that buff form might mix in a bit of life energy - something very taxing on him but which makes the attack exponentially more powerful than if he'd just used ki alone.