People come after me with pitchforks online anytime I mention that goth is an actual subculture with a rich music history and not just a fashion (had to leave Facebook for this reason)
I'm pretty sure I know which Facebook group you're talking about and I would say, pay them no mind. It happened to me too but I ended up getting banned haha.
Same. I get a lotta discrimination for it. Like, come on. It’s a lifestyle. I’ve even gotten judgement from fellow goths for being a Christian goth. Obviously, not as much as the judgement I get from some Christians lol. Anyway, don’t listen to them. You’re perfect the way you are🖤(On a separate note, bru. Your hair is so freaking beautiful.)
@@frillylily8005 mostly stuff like “you don’t belong” and “nobody likes you.” Ya know simple stuff like that. It’s the very small minority of goths who say that so I don’t mind. The ones I really know personally are very kind and at the end of the day that’s all a person needs
the hilarious part about the Victorian photos is - they're black and white pictures!! a lot of the time, people see what they think is a black dress, and actually it could be navy, dark green, purple etc etc. I have seen so many examples of women wearing gowns that seem to be black or grey, and the real dress is in a museum, and it's actually really colourful!!
Haha yeah that's another angle I should've included but was more focused on explaining the difference of thought back in the day since black was a color worn by the working class a lot of the time and since they were poor, all they could wear on a daily basis was their work clothes. The wealthy people were able to wear all kinds of color. But the point is, it was not goth haha. But I totally get you, I regret not adding that bit in lol
@@KaiDecadence haha! sorry, it wasn't meant as a criticism at all, just another thing that bothers me when people use Victorian photography to back up their claims that goth was around in the Victorian era.
Oh it's totally fine. This probably won't be the last time I bring the Victorian thing up as I have another video planned where it's going to be relevant again so I'll definitely be sure to include this in it. :)
I HATE that current brands have been putting pentagrams and other occult symbolism on clothing lately (LOOKING AT YOU, KILL STAR). I bet a lot people that are buying those brands don't know what half of the symbols being used even mean.
I mean, the brands can do whatever they want. The problem is the wider ignorance surrounding what is goth. People feel like Killstar is goth and that if they can't afford Killstar merch they can't be goth, when really, neither of those things are true. But heaven forbid you point this out lest you be labeled an [insert spooOOooky voice] Elitest Gatekeeper Of All That Is Goth!!
Yeah... I have actually come across some younger people who genuinely thought the symbols like the Pentacle, Baphomet, and the Alchemic Sulfur were "goth" symbols... So I am convinced that what you said is kinda true for some.
This too. It's not so much the brand (even though is tacky and juvenile to make prints out of these symbols in my opinion) but the people (usually younger) who misappropriate things. It's kinda the reason why Killstar is thought of as the 2010 Mallgoth as it births some uneducated young kids/teens thinking their products are "Goth" products when they aren't. I can't even recall Killstar ever making Goth band merchandise.
What's worse though? Kids not knowing that the symbols have had connotations of being evil or wearing them because they think they're evil (when some are just supposed to be symbols of knowledge or harmony) and being "edgy"? For me it's people not knowing (or not even caring to know) about the evil the symbols can represent. That having been established, I also see how a Pagan or Satanist would be incensed beyond belief at seeing their esteemed symbols being made a mockery by their local mallgoths.
@@justgween7573 that's a tough call but both situations are pretty shit imho. I suppose I brought up kills tar and other designers in the first place because that's my pet peeve. Stop wearing symbols if you don't know what they mean! (that's not towards anyone here specifically btw!)
I wish more darkly inclined people would realize that “not being Goth” is not a character judgement. I don’t identify as Goth even though I like the music because I’m primarily a metal guy who loves Gothic horror. Great video that I’ll share with my more hard in the paint Goth friends.
Exactly. I think some Darkly-Inclined people feel that if you tell them they aren't Goth based on the fact that they don't listen to or like Goth music, they think you're attacking them and trying to invalidate their likeness for dark things when that isn't true and that they don't realize that they can still be into dark things without being Goth.
So if someone has a "darkly-inclined" mindset, why not just call it Goth? It's a made-up word to begin with. Used to be a warring tribe, nowadays people gave it a different meaning. "Real" goths, listening to "real" goth music gatekeeping saying you're not Goth unless you listen to those old Goth bands is like if a medieval Gothic warrior came back as a spirit and told you you're not a real Goth, you don't even wear armour.
@@kurtslavain But goth isn’t about the mindset, it’s about the music. It’s like the same for a lot of other sub alt categories like metal for example. You can’t claim yourself as a metal head when you don’t listen to any metal at all. Same principle here for goth.
Even though I love Korn, but even when I went from scene before being goth, I never considered Korn goth lmao. I used to think Symphonic metal bands and doom metal were goth genres though.
Once, I saw a white girl claiming bands like The Birthday Massacre and Cradle of Filth are goth, and I VERY POLITELY told her that they weren't, but that I could show her some if she was interested. She spent a whole week sending me racial slurs and only stopped because my reaction was thinking it was fucked up but hilarious. Another time, something similar happened in a one-on-one chat, and the person started "screaming" at me in all caps about how I was invalidating their identity (comparing it to gender or sexual identity) and then blocked me when five seconds earlier we were in very friendly terms. But we are the ones who take themselves too seriously and should loosen up. 🙄 I wish I was exaggerating these stories. Now to an actual pet peeve of mine: Last time a went to a goth event (a free entry fair with different local stores selling varieties of stuff from fashion to tarot readings to decor and more, they're amazing) I swear to God, I saw ONE single notebook design that had: black cats, pentacles and other occult symbols, moon phases AND crystals. All at once. I wanted to scream, the only thing missing was Wednesday Addams or the word "witch" somewhere. I don't remember if it had skulls because I had to look away before my facial expression got rude. There was a lot of other stuff with like, Lucifer's sigil, Baphomets, pentagrams... I'm so tired of that type of aesthetic and I can't wait for the fad to die off.
Eugh... I don't freaking understand how people can seriously think a band like Cradle of Filth is Goth. I can sorta understand The Birthday Massacre as they're a little trickier but that's only because they play the genre Synth Rock and the only other mainstream-ish band that did that genre is Orgy but if they actually listen carefully, they'll see why Birthday Massacre isn't a Goth band. These people need to stop focusing on the look of the band and focus on the SOUND because that's what determines if a band is Goth or not. And it's hilarious how that girl resorted to petty insults just because you explained to her what Goth music is, if that isn't petty I don't know what is. And sexuality/gender? Get the fudge outta here with that nonsense haha That is freaking ridiculous lol And I so feel you on the tacky occult stuff. It's not "Goth", it never was Goth and the sooner this little fad dies, the better. If a person is genuinely into the occult, that is awesome but if you seriously think that liking that stuff makes you a Goth, yeah no, it doesn't.
@@KaiDecadence there are so many people into the occult who dont dress the part... occultists dont always look "scary" and "evil". Goth and occult aren't tied together. Anyway, i like your videos.
@@ASMRyouVEGANyet Oh I wasn't implying that Occultists always look dark, I've seen occult enthusiasts who look like ordinary people so believe me, I know haha.
@@evacody1249 Well actually Gothic Metal is a real genre, it came from Death-Doom Metal, that much is true and I just think people focus too much on COF's image.
Agreed on the topic of religion and belief- goths can be of any religion or no religion. While I am both a goth and a pagan, the two things are not related. You can be a hippy and a pagan, be punk and a pagan, etc... And everyone, please don't wear religious symbols you don't understand or hold any meaning to you. Faith is not a fashion statement
A majority of people are wearing faith-/belief-based symbols just to be edgy. I know people claiming they're witches, when they don't practice Wicca. Then, they claim to practice black magic -- yeah, sure they do. I'll be honest, the only times I have religious symbols on my clothes is, because it reflects the beliefs of the band. I love Bathory, but the band shirt features Baphomet (not Satan, but a Satanic deity). I'm agnostic, so I'm doubtful that God and Satan actually exist. I want nothing to do with any organized faith or philosophy; I just follow my own path. Other than my band shirt fashion, I'd never wear random symbols, especially ones, with which I refuse to be associated. For example, I'd never buy a shirt featuring slogans, such as "Hail Satan" or "Evil Witch." Yet, as an ex-Roman Catholic, it still drives me mad whenever the upside down cross, better known as St. Peter's cross, is associated with pagan beliefs. St. Peter felt he was unworthy to be buried in the same manner as Christ. Again, I'm doubtful of their existences, but that's what I was taught. So, for me the tackiness & misinformation represented by KillStar and similar stores leave little to be admired.
Yet, Kai, mainstream society, in particular, always associates pagan beliefs with the goth subculture. Just like everyone else, goths hold different beliefs. It's not steeped in religion, nor politics; it's derived from the music surrounding actual goth bands, like those you mentioned.
@@AndiV138 I just want to point out You can be a Witch and not practice Wicca/Not all witches are Wiccan (do not follow the Wiccan rede "rules"). Wiccans do call them self witches (they practice witchcraft). I myself am a Witch an Eclectic Witch- not Wiccan. Wiccan is sometimes/typically thrown around as an umbrella word for all witches. (And is recognized by the government). You can be Pagan and not do witchcraft etc.. Pertaining to the black magic comment- That's where Witch and Wiccan seperate. As mentioned- The Wiccan rede last wording -do what thy will and harm none - seperates Wiccans from Witches (typically). So if they are Claiming to be a Which they could possibly do dark magick.
So straightforward and factual... I love this video so much. This is the content I crave to see more of in the goth sphere of RUclips. And I’m glad to see you mentioned coldwave! People keep trying to shove it away and claim it had no relation to post-punk or the development of goth branches, but uhhhh... nooo.. Really great content and editing of this entire video.
Haha glad you enjoyed the video, I really wanted to get ut the main grievances I have when it to Goth so it was pretty cathartic to make LOL And really? I didn't know people did that with Coldwave. Granted I don't listen to a whole lot of Coldwave, I can see how it's a sub-genre of Goth so that's pretty annoying.
The part about elitism definitely resonates. The other day I was browsing lookbooks on RUclips and stumbled upon a tiktok compilation about the mall goth resurgence and someone in the comments was trying to explain how mall goths and real goths are not the same and was being relentlessly attacked for stating the obvious. The whole "don't be a gatekeeper" "stop being an elitist" popped up a few times. Sorry for the rant lol
No need to apologize, that's the kinda stuff that I'm talking about LOL It's so annoying and so inaccurate. I had a feeling it would be a thing with this "mall goth" revival and people thinking it's an actual Goth thing when it wasn't then and it still isn't now.
Thank you for making this. I've been holding these same views for almost 10 years now. Just a week back I was on a gothic subgroup on Facebook and there was a post regarding Goths and Goth music. And some people took offense to me saying "You can't call yourself Goth if you don't listen to the music or support the scene". That sentence never referred to the fact that a goth person is prohibited from listening to other genres. I merely stated a reasonable fact, that if you label yourself a member of a group or subculture you abide by a fundamental standard. In this case it's the music. And I had all these people go ape-shit on me calling me everything under the sun from monstrous and vile, to discriminatory and disgusting for dictating to people what they should listen to. And I was labelled an elitist. The fact that I even apologized and had to explain myself to these people that I never intended to insult, was ridiculous. But they proceeded to keep at it, calling me whatever they wanted with the willingness to ensure me that I was wrong LOL. I don't care how a person dresses or for how long they've been listening to GOTH music. I only care if they DO; if the buy the music, go to clubs or venues, go to concerts or festivals and generally support the survival of the scene. Why is this such a hard concept to comprehend ? Rappers listen to Rap, Metalheads listen to Metal, Rivetheads listen to Industrial, Ravers to Techno/House, Punks to Punk and SO ON. Pretty self explanatory that all these groups don't solely listen to their group of music.
> That sentence never referred to the fact that a goth person is prohibited from listening to other genres. EUGH! I freaking hate when people resort to this "rebuttal" because NO ONE is saying you can't listen to other music. All we're saying is that if you're calling yourself a "Goth" and Goth music is not part of your music collection, it's redundant to call yourself that. Is it bad I think I have a good idea of what Facebook group you're talking about? LOL If it's the one I'm thinking about, I'm not surprised at the backlash because I got that so many times until they finally banned me because I was "problematic". Yeah sure lol. And honestly, I think the reason why people can't comprehend Goth = Goth music is because of the last 2 decades of misappropriation of what Goth music actually is and the sayings like "Goth is whatever you want it to be", & "Goth is a mindset" which have contributed to this problem. I remember the same thing happening to Punk back in the late 90s, early 2000s when Pop Punk became a thing and people were saying "Punk is an attitude, not music" and then you started hearing musicians like Pink and especially Avril Lavigne being called "punk". Lucky for Punk, it went back underground and had a revival in the sound and the same thing happened to Goth but because Goth was far more misappropriated than Punk, it's taking longer for Goth to fully recover but hopefully it will someday.
OMG dude you're taking the words right out of my mouth. You're right! It's so frustrating to see how an underground culture which thrives on staying behind the scenes has been so misappropriated. This is why I'm so frustrated by the amount of these so-called "Goth" youtubers who only make dozens of Make-Up tutorials, unboxings, subcription box unpackings, fashion hauls etc. They only show the aesthetic part, an element that people back in the day and true goths had to fight for, because it's a look that mainstream society generally doesn't accept. The popularity of all these channels just takes away the impact and significance of ones own original look. Instead I'd love more channels that talk about the MUSIC first of all, the ideology and bohemian aspect of it, and a lot more DIY. Here in Romania we have our own Dark/Gothic festival called Dark Bombastic Evening in Alba Iulia within the walls of an old citadel. This August was it's 9th year. It's a smaller more personal event that hosts everything from Neo-Folk and Black Metal to Goth and Post-Punk. An all underground event. www.darkbombasticevening.com/ Well this year "And Also the Trees" played. Amazing post-punk band. More than half of the people who labelled themselves Goths (who only listen to mostly metal and folk btw =))) lol) didn't know shit about them. I really just went into educational mode, because I was afraid I was gonna shout in a Tourrets manner "posers". This happens at goth nights held in rock and metal clubs as well. They open a Goth venue, but they'll play Marilyn Manson, Deathstars some Type O Negative(a band I love but not goth) and I'm just sitting there disappointed. And of course I can't stand it so I bust out my phone and show them She Past Away, Drab Majesty, Ritual Howels, etc. And some romanian stuff like Howling Saints & Terror Art. ruclips.net/video/Fz1tTKYYW_g/видео.html ruclips.net/video/VJTJV9Y06Uc/видео.html And they're left wondering what the hell this shit is ? =)) It's insulting how people don't know where Goth comes from and misappropriate the term so much.
To be perfectly honestly with you friend, there are only a small and I mean, SMALL handful of "Goth RUclipsrs" I actually like and with the exception of one, the others are just smaller channels. I especially cannot stand 1 particular "Goth" RUclipsr (and I use "goth" in the loosest way possible) who I've grown to loathe in the last two years as this person is just someone playing dress up but in reality is not into Goth at all, just the shallow aspects. Her and her mate but I'm not going to name names, I think it's clear who I mean lol. But yeah, that's the reason why I started covering some Goth topic content on my channel as I was getting tired of seeing nothing but hauls, hauls, and MORE HAULS. That along with the millions of makeup tutorials lol But I realized that complaining about it doesn't help so in order to see change, you have to be the change and well even if it means I'll be called an "elitist" for doing so. Yeah, most "Goth nights" never get Goth music right. They always play Manson or Industrial Metal/Industrial dance type music with the occasional doom metal (Type O Negative) and call it a night. Absolutely insulting to actual Goths who are just wanting to have a night to come together and listen to some Goth music. And it only further misappropriates what Goth music actually is to the young venue goers and that is what results to people who don't know what actual Goth music sounds like and react negatively when they finally hear it.
Same here. Yeah I know exactly who you're talking about lol. I am so fed up with her channel and others like her. Good on you realizing that "information is ammunition". ^_^ In my opinion if we can even hope to see Goth as an actual scene survive, we need to filter out the posers by informing the populace. It sounds harsh and this will end up just making ourselves look like elitists, but there needs to be clear defined standards. I agree with Nephilim Incorruptus that we shouldn't bother with all this and be mysterious about it. But then I believe that by not informing people outside of it, then we just perpetuate misinformation.
Yeah and she's partly to blame for the misappropriation of Goth we've seen on RUclips for the last 2+ years now... -_- And I agree, it's just best to put the proverbial foot down and say what is what when it comes to Goth because all the years of pussyfooting around it for fear of backlash just put the scene in worst shape than it already had been and if videos like this can help educate people about the subculture, than I think it's worth it despite getting the label of "elitist".
I won't lie, around my baby bat time I really did have more of a gothic mindset than I did with goth mostly because the influence of cartoons I watched as well as the literature and dark arts I grew up liking. The only time I really got exposed to goth is when my mom would play The Cure a lot but it took me a while to realize that The Cure was one of those influential bands in the goth scene. You can say, I used to think listening to bands like Evanescence or Doom metal like Cradle of Filth and Theatre of Tragedy, and even symphonic metal were goth music. But then I tried exploring more and thought maybe goth music in lines with The Birthday massacre and other new wave and synth pop music, BUT until one day after hearing the Cure was an influential goth band in goth FBs I've been in... And because I love the Cure, I decided to play them on Pandora to explore traditional goth bands and that's how my love for post punk music began.(because I like 80s rock music in general either way) but I even later asked for goth band recommendations and came across to Darkwave playlists and found bands I enjoy. While I still consider myself to have a gothic mindset, I really do enjoy goth music a lot more now these days than most genres. (I still enjoy metal, industrial, synthpop, and other things though) So maybe this can be an example of evolving to a goth? But I was once called an elitist when I tried correcting someone on FB goth group why Evanscence isn't goth and they saw it as some personal attack. (Lmao when I wasn't dissing, I even told them I'm a huge fan myself and went to their last tour but was just stating a fact that I even had to learn myself) And I do get a bit iffy when I see non goths make goth OCs on DA and would portray them as Satanic worshippers... When I make goth OCs, I not only make them darkly inclined, but I actually do show them their musical interest in goth music that's not just post punk. But this is a good video, I also see this as a guide on how to make proper goth OCs. Lmao you got me at Depeche Mode because I made that mistake with them a lot, and I usually say gothy as a joke so yeah.
Haha hey now, that's totally understandable and I think it's safe to say that a lot of us who were born post 80s kinda fell into the same trap of thinking bands like Evanescence, Marilyn Manson ,and any other Metal (including Symphonic, Doom, & Black) and Industrial music was Goth unless we had family or friends who knew what actual Goth music was. And funny enough, when I first heard 80s Goth music that wasn't The Cure, I really didn't like it at first but as I kept digging, I found my love for 90s Goth bands like Love Like Blood, Nosferatu, Miranda Sex Garden, and Fields of the Nephilim (technically they're late 80s lol). And then after getting used to the sound, I went back to try the good old 80s stuff again and I actually liked it. I think the thing with Goth music is that since it's not played on any mainstream radio stations, it's an acquired taste kind of genre since it sounds nothing like you were probably expecting it to so you either A), accept it and try to get into it. B), you rage and go "This isn't Goth music" and continue mislabeling non-Goth bands "Goth" or C), you realize that maybe Goth isn't for you and you try out another subculture or music style. The thing people need to understand is that just because you're not Goth (if you don't like the music) doesn't make your likeness for darkly inclined things any less valid. It just means you're Darkly Inclined or Gothic-inclined, that's all. And oh man, I think I know what grou you're talking about LOL I got banned from it last year after getting involved in topics pertaining to music mislabeling so if it means anything, you aren't alone in that at all. And it's funny you mention Goth OCs because I actually plan on doing a video for how to write Goth characters with what to do and what not to do but I'll be posting that on my Art channel "Decadent Draws" so stay tuned for that if interesting. :D Anyway, very glad you enjoyed the video!
I guess its a common thing for baby bats that start out with the darkly inclined stage then XD Though I used to be a scene kid before first before I developed into a goth today but even when I was scene, I never really consider scene music goth and got irritated when people confuse the two. I do love me some symphonic metal, doom metal, industrial, and synth pop but yeah, confusion from media makes it confusing. Oh that's interesting, I had been checking more into 90s bands since I feel like I should branch out to other goth genres than just post punk. Yeah, it sucks they don't get played on radios because I wish there was a station dedicated to that genre of music. For me I just stuck with A and accepted it, since I grew to enjoy the sound anyways :P Exactly, Darkly Inclined and being Gothic isn't too bad, I even do consider myself both goth and gothic since dark things in music and art always fascinated me. Plus, I think both can help compliment each other despite their differences in things. Yeah that group and wow just for making certain topics?:O Lmao I once made a controversial post that an elder goth kind of lectured me that goth and gothic are the same thing and how he knows more about it than me and people keep telling me gothic is just an adjective for goth and I thought "But... I've seen elder goths talk about the difference with the two on youtube." but, eh whatevs. Oh, I don't think I checked that side channel of yours but I'm interested because its nice to see another goth that also loves to do art as well as character building and takes interest in animation than just the music and literature :DD
I agree with you totally and glad to see a new video from you. I do have a couple things I want to bring up. 1. This may not be the case but as far as victorian times being goth because the clothes appear black in the photos. A lot of the pictures were taken in black and white. Just because they appear black on film doesn't necessarily mean they were black in real life. Take the addams family tv show. The walls were actually pink, but because of b&w cameras they looked more grey. Anyway it could be a minor point but something worth sharing. 2. As far as Siouxsie and Robert Smith debuting the goth label. I've always thought of it as They along with bauhaus etc were sort of the... transitional stage between punk and goth. So while fans think of them as goth from their p.o.v. they never intentionally set out to make "goth" music so it could be seen as odd to them that they were put into that category.
1. That's a very good point about the lack of color photos back then. You're completely right n the money about that. :) 2. Another fair point but my explanation was merely pointing out that whether they planned it or not, their albums paved the wave for the Goth sound and influenced so many other Goth bands that came after them. So many Goth bands in the second and third wave give lots of thanks to the likes of Siouxsie and The Cure so their work truly was important in the foundation of the Goth sound even though they eventually moved on from the sound (well mostly, The Cure came back to it in 2004 with their last album they ever released while Siouxsie stayed in the alternative rock genre).
I was suggested to do a critique on your channel by someone. After viewing this video though I agree with you. It can be frustrating telling an Evanescence fan "that's not goth" and they think you're being a hater and it's just like "no it's just not goth". Great video 💀☠🖤
Interesting lol Yeah I'm pretty sure the only thing people would have against me on the topic of Goth is the fact that I personally believe that in order to be Goth, you have to have some likeness for Goth music. And that's something my stance will never change on. But thanks for at least watching the video to the end to see I'm not some boogeyman lol
As a Goth act that has been adding in more contemporary elements, we can vouch for this a lot! Even when we bring in the aspects that would be very notably out of place on a regular Goth Rock/Darkwave record, we are always going back to these sounds and putting respect on those that work within the sound. It's frustrating though, as Darkwave has been starting to be used confusingly as a term for the darker side of the Synthwave movement. Regardless, we've been doing our own to contribute to the scene and we appreciate this video for being as brutally honest as it is. It's a great pointer and I hope some of the beginners get something out of this, or even look into any of these great bands and records pointed out here! Keep up the great content as always
You're very welcome! And oh man, I totally know what you mean with Darkwave being misappropriated for darker synthwave and even futurepop music and I'll tackle this in the future for sure. Glad you enjoyed the video. :)
I wont even lie i am more of a Visual Kei guy when it comes to style mainly my hair, ( i'd rock Squall's outfit though.) That tangent aside this was an interesting video.
Really it's not so much how you look but what you listen to. You can be a Goth who is into Goth music yet likes to wear another kind of style like Visual Kei or even casual wear lol. Just so long as Goth music is a part of your music collection, that's really all that matters if you're calling yourself "Goth". I mean, you wouldn't call yourself "Visual Kei" if you didn't like Visual Kei music right? Haha but yeah, glad you enjoyed the video. :)
WHOA! HOLD ON A MINUTE! 1.) I'm NOT "goth", 2.) I was ALWAYS "darkly inclined". I discovered this Myself WITHOUT external influences. Thx 😋 I like your video. 😄
YEs!!!!!!!!!!! I adore you and agree so much with you as well, Even though I love the victorian era I know for a fact its not goth and some people get so annoyed when I remark this in person, I wish we had more people like you making this types of videos to stop the idiocy because by now its nothing but willful ignorance, thank you so much again !
Aw thank you hon! Yeah, part of the reason why I made this video is because I NEVER see people talking about this stuff on RUclips and I figured that if I wanted to see a change, I'd have to just get the ball rolling myself even if it means being labeled an "elitist" for speaking the truth, especially with the Victorian thing. But again, thanks so much, glad you enjoyed the video!
Well I won't lie, you will get some opposition who will call you an "Elitist snob" for stating facts but aside from that, everything is going to be just fine. :D
I never heard of the Victorian era being referred to as "goth," that's something new. Of course, there were gothic/dark-natured aesthetics (literature, architecture, etc.) involved, but that didn't make it "goth." Why should people get pissed when you're only trying to educate them? Well, the misinformed throw the word "elitist" around, especially when they feel as if others are pointing out or correcting their mistakes & misconceptions.
Yeah I am too but it hasn't been said, at least not on RUclips (Facebook and places outside of RUclips are a different story though). I just felt compelled to just get this all off my chest as it has been bothering me for a long time now lol
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thank you so much for this video! definitely worth the watch. sadly I think it's quite widespread that people don't have any idea what the goth subculture is even about or have an inkling of what bands are goth, even people who refer to themselves as "goth"... I agree it's important not to misuse these terms, especially since there is so little awareness and goth bands are mostly unknown. if you're going to claim you're goth you should support goth music
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed the video and I agree because I almost could've fallen into that trap myself if I didn't buckle down and actually learn about the subculture and the music and how the music operates. But doing so also came with a price and that is seeing how misconstrued Goth actually is and has been for 15+ years. But thankfully there are people who do know the truth about Goth and that brings me comfort when I find or interact with them haha. And yes if you're gonna call yourself Goth, you should have enjoyment or likeness for actual Goth music. Metalheads listen to Metal, Punks listen to Punk music, and Emos listen to Emotive Hardcore / Post-Hardcore music. Goth is no different because it too is a music-based subculture.
I was wondering why you stopped posting! I'm glad you are back and I enjoyed the video 🖤🕸👍 Side note: I have always been interested in dark/gothic things. The only music I was exposed to as a kid was Synth pop/New Wave/New Romantic, which isn't goth, more like a cousin...TBH, I have only RECENTLY gotten into this genre of music and am still trying to find more bands. Thank you for the suggestions.
Haha yes life has gotten a bit busy so haven't had as much time to pump out videos as fast as I'd like to lol. And yeah, I get that some kids were into dark things when they were young, I was another one of them but like I said in the video, it doesn't mean you were a Goth, it just means you were darkly-inclined because goth is a very specific thing (music) and the music as you know is quite niche so unless your parents, relatives, or friends were listening to Goth music when you were a kid, it's just not accurate to say one has been Goth since childhood if they didn't listen to any actual Goth music at that time. And oh cool, welcome to the Goth genre, I hope you find more bands to enjoy. If open, I have made some sorted out Goth playlists on my channels that you can browse to find some more music :)
You summed all my pet peeves into a single video. I do agree "mainstream" goth and awful assimilations were a maelstorm for the community as a whole. I had to drop a facebook group last week cause of these reasons.
I only know 1 person who has considered themselves goth/gothic as a child because of her sibling. She listened to goth music since she was 4 and is named after a song because her sister had her parents listen to it while her mom was pregnant with her. She really hates how some people say they were goth since they were a child, but listened to mostly alternative/emo music. She can’t help but just list groups she loves such as The Cure, Fields of the Nephilim, Rosetta Stone, etc., and hates it when the person says, “Oh, I never heard of those groups.” I love this video and I completely agree with everything. I, myself, didn’t know what goth truly was until I was 15 in 2013 due to me randomly finding goth RUclipsrs. It wasn’t until then that I dug myself into a grave of music and fell in love with the subculture. I was always alternative as a young teenager and even had a punk look to me that I still have to this day. In high school, I actually listened to emo and punk music, but didn’t venture into goth music until I was 15 when I was a sophomore. I was always fascinated with gothic/macabre things since I was younger, but would I call myself a goth then? No. I didn’t know what goth was and my child mind though goth was really just an elder emo person. Very idiotic of me. But I’m glad to know more about the subculture every day. Of course I don’t know everything about the subculture, but who does? I believe goth is just a love for the macabre and dark, while listening to the music that started this subculture.
So glad Ifound your channel again. I happened upon your videos Earlier this year but forgot to subscribe. DX I actually didn't know some of these bands I liked were actually part of the goth music genre. Damn, I've been listening to the music longer than I realize. XD though despite depeche mode not being Goth, I still plan on keeping it in my Goth playlist. Simply because I think they have earned their place in the musical genre and many goths seem to enjoy the music and keep in their Goth music.
Hey, glad yu enjoyed the video and I mean... Fine sure keep Depeche Mode in your playlist if you want but just don't confuse them and call their music "Goth" because it isn't. It's Synth Pop music, always has been. It's like the Smiths. A lot of Goths enjoy their music but it doesn't make them a Goth band. Just keep this in mind lol
The Damned were more of a middle. They were doing mostly Punk Rock albums until they went for straight up Goth Rock in 1985 so they aren't really a godfather of Goth unlike the first 4 predecessors that started from 1979-1983. But yeah, I'll include that album in the next video, I wasn't trying to overload too much in this one.
Oh right, I wasn't actually familiar with that until a few days ago and this was the only look I could muster when learning about it... ಠ_ಠ I agree, there is no hierarchy. All there is are those who have been in the scene a long time and those who are new and wanting to learn. That's it.
I look at it this way, you can't call yourself a metal head if you dont listen to metal. You dont have to dress like it, but it's the music that counts. Now, I can call myself a metal head and a goth and I dress somewhere in between. I'm darkly inclined and also an occultist. Also, you wouldn't call yourself an occultist if you didn't study or practice the occult arts. Hope I make sense.
No it makes sense. That's exactly what I was getting at in my video. Goth is music-based just like any other music-based subculture and if you don't listen to the music of the subculture, then you simply aren't it.
i see myself as Visual Kei, but often call myself "Goth", its easier to explain, and use "goth" as an umbrella term, since not many people actually understand various alternate sub genres. I love this video. its very educational, and helpful for others who may not understand 🖤
I don't see why you just don't say you're "Visual Kei". If you want people to understand, you have to meet them a little halfway and not be afraid to teach a bit. You don't have to go into a long explanation, believe me I know some people just don't have time for that lol But in terms of Visual Kei, all you'd really need to say is "It's an alternative style from Japan" and if they ask for a band recommnendation, just give them one of your favorite Visual Kei bands and if the person is seriously interested in it, they'll look on their own time and voila, you shared your favorite style with someone, spreading knowledge lol. I just don't think it's a good idea implying Visual Kei is Goth because it just confuses people who don't know but want to know. It's actually part of the reason why I did a "Japanese Goth/Darkwave/Deathrock" mixtape video and gave a little explanation. But that's just my 2 cents, I'm happy you enjoyed the video nonetheless. :)
I was a "Goth" when it all happened (I know, poor old me! 😪). People were really passionate about the music. Of course, there was the "dark" look but the main thing was the music. For me, industrial bands are Skinny Puppy, Test dept, Einsturzende Neubauten (sorry about the spelling), etc not nine inch nails or others you mentioned. They somehow were associated with Goth music. It was in fact quite diverse and a large spectrum of musical style. The 80's was a fabulous music melting pot and there was not a limiting frontier between genres in a way. I am not an 80's elitist but I don't know the more recent goths bands you mentioned. Gavin Friday... I love his dark cabaret solo work, especially each man kills the things he love. I find this album very gothic in his unique style. Bauhaus, so fabulous. They are really the "ultimate" Gothic band. Experimental too in their guitar sound. And of course, bands like Sisters of Mercy who were really the stars of the dance floor lol 🤣 🤣🤣
Well you gotta keep in mind that Industrial music actually is a "house" genre in the sense that it gave birth to sub-genres within it, especially when NIN came around in the late 80s. I'm not sure about modern day NIN but old school NIN during the late 80s and in the 90s played Industrial Rock as opposed to straight up Industrial / Electro-Industrial (in the case of Skinny Puppy) that you're referring to with the first crop of bands. And again, it's understandable why some would think that early Industrial is goth when it really isn't. In fact, Industrial music predates goth by two years, Throbbing Gristle invented the Industrial sound in 1977, before Bauhaus kickstarted the goth sound in 1979. But yeah at the end of the day while the two music genres are not the same, they can go well together in a club mix for sure. And if you're open and looking for new goth music, be sure to check out my "modern goth" playlists. :D
Oh yes Thobbing Gristle! So many bands. What I was trying to say is that the 80's were a fabulous melting pot of creative music. "Goth" had a large spectrum of styles and so many different kind of music. It was a bit like an explosion! This is how it happened for me. Bauhaus never saw their music as "Goth" despite the influence of their sound on many Goths bands. I love bands that were quite experimental and had nothing to do with "goth" that were somehow mixed in the movement. Movement is literally the term. Things were moving and mixing and it was great. Anyway, it was interesting. I had no idea there were so many goths videos on RUclips, especially mainly about make up and clothes! Same with tarot decks. It is funny how things go! I'll check the "newer" Goths bands. I am curious.
Oh my got, thank you for mentioning motionless in white!! I had to deal with a guy who produces deathcore albums explain to me that motionless was goth because of the band utilizing keys in their sound. I almost imploded. And I didn't even bother trying to explain. I was just so disturbed and disgusted by how much misinformation is out there. And dont get me started on all the bands/artists that advertise themselves as goth when they clearly just got themselves a marilyn manson starter kit.
yeah I figured I'd shed some light on these bands that often get miscatergorized as "Goth" when they aren't and I go into further detail in my "What is Goth" video lol.
An honest opinion and showcase of facts regarding the goth subculture is always favoured over simply being vague about topics. Although there are topics mentioned several times before in defence of the subculture (via whatever format), spreading the word is better than leaving it to a few people or mentions/posts on it, like some frequent reminder to the younger culture over time... If more can understand where it comes from and how it's defined, then it should decrease, or at the least counter, the misconceptions that can be easily discovered or gathered. And having personal annoyances within the subculture or anything relative to which is not a bad thing, and more than likely not uncommon. There'll always be those issues and close-minded people, but it's not everyone and obviously there are many who'd agree with your opinions or views on the matter. Nothing can be perfect anyway...
True. I generally talk about these things because while I do see people talking about this on websites, I never see people talking about this on RUclips, it's always mostly hauls and makeup videos so that's why I do videos like this.
@@KaiDecadence Such matters may still be mentioned on here by some specific goth RUclipsrs, but perhaps by a very minimal amount, especially in comparison to the more popular topics of beauty/fashion (which, sure, is interesting or fun to see, but it's become excessive and feels like just about the only things "goth" is viewed as by many...) The subculture might offer an easier, better understanding to non-goths or emerging baby bats if the 'popular' topics on RUclips (or anywhere else online) encompass more of the music, involvement and such.
Sure but I think the main reason why I'm so tired of the haul and makeup videos is because I've been on RUclips since 2009 watching "Goth" topic videos and thinking back, while a lot of the people were just darkly inclined as not many people talked about the music and a lot of them did say you can be goth and not like goth music (which I disagree with), there were still being some semblance of engaging topics to talk about. But then around 2014-2015, there was a shift where most people started talking about hauls and makeup and while it was fine at first, it started to wear thin very quickly.
Ah. Yes, repetition can become bothersome. And certainly, that misconception of being goth while not listening to nor appreciating goth music noticeably became a hot topic (probably were to occur at some point, anyway)...
Yeah and the misconception was huge back then lol Like around 2009-2014, most "goth" youtubers never mentioned Goth music, just fashion, makeup and how to deal with bullies/acceptance. A lot of them dropped off around 2014 and then the second breed came where it got a little better as while there still weren't a lot of people talking about the music, there were some which was better than the none from the years prior.
One thing you forgot to mention is idiots who love to confuse goth and emo as if they're the same damn thing -_- And I'm pretty darkly inclined myself but since I have yet to listen to real goth music, I can't call myself goth :( I can see where you're coming from though. And this is coming from someone who adores bands like Evanescence, Within Temptation, Marilyn Manson, etc.
Yeah I was actually debating if I should include the Goth vs Emo thing but I didn't want to make the video any longer and I plan n doing a separate video talking about that and finally correcting people on it. But to be honest, I don't see as many people doing it now like I did a few years ago so I'd like to think some people are getting it lol And yeah I like Evanescence and all those other darker styled bands but I just get annoyed when people think that music is Goth and then when you show them what real Goth music is, they can't accept it because it doesn't sound anything like they were imagining it to lol
This might be an unpopular opinion, but for me in order to like goth music you need to have a darkly inclined mindset that gives you the possibility to enjoy the themes and the aesthetics of any goth band, otherwise you would get pretty bored of it. Personally I like to identify myself as a goth because of how important the genre is to me and my identity, but I also like to consider myself a metalhead because that's the music I mostly listen to, I've been listening to post-punk since my childhood because my mom was wery much into the scene, as well as very early goth like siouxie and the banshees and the cure, but I've always been a darkly inclined kid in my life due to the shows I used to watch, the early 2000s were a very freaky/romantic decade (if you exclude the y2k trend) so that definitely shaped me into the person that I am today, and I couldn't be anymore proud of it. So in conclusion, yes you can be darkly inclined and not enjoy goth music (aka being a goth ), but it doesn't feel right when it's the other way around, idk..
Well it's a given that a lot of people who enjoy goth music will also be darkly-inclined so it goes without saying. What I was trying to convey there was that just because one is darkly-inclined doesn't automatically mean that they are goth as the latter would mean that they also are listening to goth music.
@@KaiDecadence I know, and I totally agree with you, thank you for responding, I was afraid that so many people would start insulting me for what I said, people's reactions are very unpredictable😅
Eugh same. I forgot about those obnoxious memes. Furthermore they aren't proving dick because Morticia Addams is not a Goth figure anyway. I love Morticia but it's just true. At the most, she's a Gothic figure but Gothic =/= Goth.
@@KaiDecadence exactly!! it makes absolutely no sense to me at all to bring someone else down to pull yourself up, I love her too but you're definitely right on that front
@@clili00 Yep. Thankfully I think that trend kinda died. At least I think so anyway as I haven't seen it being posted but then again, I'm not very active on groups as I used to be lol.
@@clili00 Hopefully haha. But most Goth groups to be frank are "eh". Only a small handful are actually good in the sense of being focused in my opinion.
If you grew up in the 80s in the UK you saw The Cure, Siouxsie, Sisters of Mercy, The Mission and All About Eve on Top of the Pops so it is much more likely to be a true statement when someone of that era says ‘I became goth at 12’. Which was exactly when I became goth :) I danced to Sisters of Mercy at a church disco at 13 and went to my first Cure gig at that age too! But yes, you probably have a point for the most part.
I should've specified a bit more. I know that some Goth bands were popular in the 80s and got to play on Top of the Pops but notice how as the years went on, you stopped seeing Goth bands play in mainstream places and then when the 90s came, they seem to have up and stopped (hence why I said that the genre went back underground). And again, I don't deny that some people can genuinely get into Goth when they're young given they have the right sources (in your case, being in the 80s and being able to see a few Goth bands play live on TV). But my comment was more along the lines of those people who say "I've been Goth since I was like 8. I was always into vampires, bats, cemeteries, etc." and that stuff does not make you Goth, it just makes you dark / darkly-inclined. That's more or less where I was getting at haha.
I still like Evanescence, HIM, and My Chemical Romance even though they aren't Goth. I don't really get into that many bands if they're not Gothic or Goth. I'm more of a Gothic rock and Darkwave person 🖤
I don't know, I always refrain from revealing my favorite goth bands for fear of people calling me a "fake goth" when I say: I don't really like goth music (not recent goth music at least) but I did start out listening to a lot of post-punk (from bands like The Smiths, Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Cure, Joy Division, and Bauhaus) and the most annoying thing is there seems to be a split between goths where a lot of goths would consider those bands as goth but then there's this whole other side that considers them as non-goth. And on top of that, for the people that actually do accept my bands as "goth enough," I'll mention that I love post-punk music but I mostly listen to post-punk _revival_ and then suddenly I'm completely cast out as a goth and sometimes even attacked for it.
Okay that's a lot to take in but I'll break it down. With the exception of The Smiths as they aren't Goth and while they dabbled with Post-Punk, they were at their core an Alternative Rock band so tying them into Goth is REALLY inaccurate and should be avoided. But Bauhaus. They are Goth, they're the band that actually started the genre. Joy Division are Post-Punk BUT they're considered Goth as well because their sound was then taken and slightly expanded upon by Bauhaus and played straight which was what birthed the Goth Rock genre. Siouxsie and the Banshees were more or less like The Cure where while they were post-punk, they did release a Goth album taking influence from the groundwork laid by Bauhaus. It's like I said in the video that even though Siouxsie and Robert Smith eventually moved onto non-Goth music, it doesn't erase their legacy and impact of their Goth albums. Now the reason why Post-Punk Revival is not considered Goth is because it doesn't use any of the traits found in Goth rock and is played straight as Post-Punk. So take for example what I said about the Smiths earlier. They dabbled with Post-Punk but the concentrated form of it. Notice how The Smiths didn't sound dark like Joy Division or Siouxsie and the Banshees. That's where I'm getting at. That is what separates it from Goth. It's a bit hard to explain but I plan on doing tackling this in a future video. So I mean, you can like Post-Punk revival music, I like some of it myself but to consider it Goth music would be false so yeah, the people who point that out are in the right. So I mean, what you said goes down to my last point. So long as you name drop actual Goth bands, people won't or shouldn't heckle you. If you've run into people who seriously say that Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Cure, or Joy Division (to a lesser extent) as "not Goth", they are being ignorant and don't know their history. The Smiths, sure I can see why they would object but the others? No.
My main pet peeve as a goth is when people ask “so you’re a satanist, right?” 1- I’m a very religious Christian 2- even most goths who aren’t Christian or Catholic aren’t satanist either. It’s a subculture . Anyone can be goth.
Goth isn't a lifestyle. Unless you mean in the sense that you're getting in a van and traveling place to place to check out Goth bands playing concerts lol Otherwise no it really is not a lifestyle. It's a music-based subculture that revolves around Goth music. That all said, yeah the "satanist" thing gets old but I haven't gotten it myself for a good few years now lol.
Your points about the gothic genre of music and what is considered Goth is spot on. While I like other genres of music and what I deem to be Gothic Metal like King Diamond and some Cradle of Filth, I certainly wouldn't consider them to be Gothic Rock proper, because I actually like Goth music and was most influenced by the genre when I initially began paying attention to music in my adolescence back in the 80's. Fields of the Nephilim is probably my favorite band of all as well as The Cure's gothic albums that you very aptly displayed and several others (Christian Death, Faith and the Muse etc). At this juncture in my life, I have various styles of clothing that I like (Even combinations of western looks), but I enjoy my dark oriented clothing and try to go all out when I do dress goth. I'm a multi-faceted person, but in my heart and soul, I absolutely consider myself a Goth. It's the subculture that I'm most drawn to and the lifestyle and mindset that has most influenced me.
I can definitely say that when I was around 8 I was gothic and love the darker things and had a darker style now that I’m 16 I still like the darker things but now I have more of a masculine style
I once went through a phase during my teenage years. I went around acting like I was a preppie. Thankfully, that was short lived, and I went back to creepy. I'm gonna go ahead and take that whole I've been goth forever thing and run with it. Yeah, I liked Cyndi Lauper and Depeche Mode and still do; but, my favorite music was Siouxie, Sisters of Mercy, and the Cure. And damn near anything else that's considered Goth that I could sneak past my parents. I'm also a lifelong darkly inclined individual. I never really considered myself Goth until recently when I had the epiphany that my life revolved around the MUSIC. The cool clothes, makeup, and year round Halloween decorations are aesthetic icing on the cake. But guess what- I also enjoy industrial, hard core gutter rap, old school country and Western, world, and classical. I just don't identify with those music cultures, or go to the shows, or dress in that manner, except maybe industrial. So I don't claim to be "country" or whatever. Understanding that my taste in music, movies, literature, fashion, etc., combined kind of classified me as Goth, actually resonated with me and helped me be more secure in my identity. And as someone with autism, specifically female ASD, finding my individual identity has been a struggle. (§ high functioning autistic females are copycats, so we can easily become a messed up identity crisis by simply trying to imitate to fit in.) The goth label helped me clarify my identity according to the things I love. The deciding factor- music. It is inextricably linked to the term. I think people in the rap & hip hop community would be pissed at me for using their aesthetic without being an actual supporter of the community and culture. Or, if I wear cowboy boots and a cowboy hat, but never listen to country. I wish people would replace the term Goth with THEIR music culture term. It would make more sense to them.
I agree with this 100% Given that I'm more of a 90's industrialist despite my favorite band of all time is the cure my biggest piss off is that we got lumped in and labeled "Goth" despite the fact we completely formed our own identity and sound My genre has contributed more to what people perceive as "Goth" then actual Goths did and we're not Goth at all! and we definitely pull more people with our sound that's why there's so many people falsely identifying as Goth like no offense but if you think it pisses you off try being one of us! The word Goth takes all the credit for everything we contributed... we get told we're not goth And everything the mainstream says is goth is almost completely 90's industrial This problem definitely needs to be addressed
Oh believe me, I will be getting to Goth vs Industrial and what the differences are between the two because you're right, people get it confused WAY too often and it's time someone set the record straight. RUclipsr Amy Nekrotique is kinda addressing this what with her "Industrial Music 101" series where she goes a bit in depth about the many sub-genres of Industrial music while giving sound clip examples. But I'll definitely get to this topic soon. :)
@@KaiDecadence I think the biggest issue is our "look" this is why we melted into one group because visually we basically are... when people see us on the street they don't give a Fuck what we listen too all they see is our outfit... and of course Hollywood contributed too this heavily also! I have no idea if we actually have our own name or not cuz in the 90's we were just goths
You see though, when you put a rivethead or industrialist next to a goth, I genuinely do see the difference. To be bluntly honest, the stereotypical "look" that people think is Goth (that isn't 80s trad) doesn't scream Goth to me, it makes me think either Industrial fan or metalhead. Take for example alternative model Dani Divine. She's been touted as a "Goth model" but when I look at her, she doesn't scream "Goth" looking to me, she just looks like Metal chick. Never mind the fact she doesn't even listen to Goth music so... Yeah. And I'm convinced that in the 90s, this is where the misappropriation came from. Like I said in the video, Goth went back to the underground when the 80s ended and Industrial was the next big craze thanks to Nine Inch Nails bringing the Industrial sound to the mainstream but unfortunately Industrial music got labeled "goth" or "The new goth" because actual Goth music was underground and it was never radio friendly. And because of this, a lot of kids who grew up listening to these Industrial bands honestly believed they were "Goth" for it when in actuality, they were just rivetheads/industrialists, not goths.
I see the difference also but I remember watching my sister getting ready to go out when I was young once I was a teen my look was WELL different That 90's "look" has definitely hijacked the term Goth This vid was a great start to addressing this issue I hope more youtubers pick this topic up Its the only thing we can really do about this issue at this point At nearly 40 I still don't know anything
Yeah but the sad thing about that is that there were a lot of awesome Goth bands that came out during the 90s but they didn't get the attention they deserved since like I mentioned, Goth was back in the underground at this time and the only way you could've found them was from word of mouth or if you lived in a place that had a genuine Goth club or hangout that didn't turn into an Industrial club which I hear a lot of them did. And yeah you're right, talking and addressing is the best way to handle this. But nonetheless, glad yu enjoyed the video. :)
Awesome video! My friend asked me if Silent Hill could possibly be considered Goth, I initially said no. However, since the music has an undefined genre per se, I honestly don't know. 😁
Silent Hill Goth? Like what? The Game itself or the music? Because the answer is "No" to both to be honest. Goth is a music-based genre and a word to describe the fans who listen to that music genre. And the music in the series is a mixture of Alternative Rock, Industrial, and Ambience. Akira Yamaoka is like the master of calm unsettling atmospheric music but his music is not Goth and he isn't influenced by the Goth rock genre neither.
@@KaiDecadence Agreed. I explained to him that although there are melancholic themes associated with the music, I personally wouldn't consider it Goth. He's learning, Kai😂 Thank you for the feedback!
I know there are many people who call themselves goth who would be upset to hear that they're not "real" goths merely because of the music style they listen to. The thing is we need to look at what definitions we're talking about here. Yes the word goth means a very particular style of music which is associated with a specific dark fashion, but not necessarily the fashion itself. However it also means a mindset. Allow me to explain if the reader will bare it. There is goth music and then there are goths. There are goths who listen to original classical goth music (like me) and there are goths who listen to only industrial stuff. (I also like industrial and I like alot of various metal styles as well). Realize that fashions often take on the name of the music they originated from. As in the goth fashion, the punk fashion. Look at punk, punk has moved past and incorporated more music than the classic styles from where punk originated, but there is a diverse community and common core attitude found in all punk identities. The same is with goth. Yea there are posers who call themselves goth who are not, but generally people who call themselves goth share the same state of mind and core attitude of those that listen to classical goth. I understand that within the goth subculture there is an even smaller group that strictly defines true goth as only that which listens to a particular brand of music from which the name originally came. But what does goth means for the entire subculture who holds that title? To the main stream crowd goth is sadly miss-understood and very broad. Many things are called goth that are not. Black metal, emo, satanits and God forbid goth rap. But I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about the industrial and cyber goths, or heck even people who may not like the classic & industrial music genre at all, but live off dark orchestra music. The question we need to ask is why does goth exist in the first place? Yes it was a music brand, but why was that music written? Why did it take on that style with it's deep suppressed vocals? What was being expressed that wasn't expressed in punk or any other alternative sence? Why does all goth genres come back to romanticizing death, tragedy, and the morbid? The music that started goth was an attitude, an attitude that surely people had long before the music or name for it existed, but it was there none the less, we know this because of books and poems that mirror that attitude. Classic goth music was where this mindset was first express in song. Music gave this dark mindset a voice and it didn't end with post punk, dark wave, etc... The industrial scene evolved from this and is influenced by the same attitudes that brought "true goth". And I hate using the word "true goth", because what it really is is classic goth. Goth is about the attitude expressed in the music. The sound the music brings is a reflection of that attitude. It would be hard to imaging calling a post punk band goth if is was all about sunshine and rainbows and the band dressed like colorful hippies. It would be goth post punk style music, but it wouldn't have the goth attitude, it wouldn't feel goth nor have a true goth spirit. It wouldn't in essence be goth. Goth needs to be a little more than just the music, it's an attitude indeed. Goth is a broad subculture, but there are criteria to be met to be goth. Which is why there is a core difference between being someone who has a merely dark inclined mindset and someone who is goth in mindset. Emo, metal, dark punk, and black metal while all have a dark inclined mindset cannot be considered goth because they haven't met that criteria of required attitude. Goth isnt about suicide, or a woah is me mindset, nor is it about anarchy, chaos, violence horror, or celebrating evil for that matter. It's more intellectual than it's counterpart subcultures. It's attitude is about recognizing tragedy, but exploring and seeing a perspective of beauty in what others regard as repulsive and dwelling in and expressing that darkness, which is why black is kind of a requirement. Goth is romantic at its core, it goes beyond the face value and gets into the essence of these things and explores their philosophy and meaning. This is expressed in certain styles and darker sounds of music that will allow that perspective to be conveyed. Industrial goth does that well. So when people say "true goth" what I believe they really mean is classical goth. Just my opinion.
Okay there is a lot to go over with this and I'll break it up bit by bit. To start thigns off though, Goth was never a mindset. That is just some really bad saying that came about in the 90s when media outlets were focusing on the look and not even bothering to talk about the music. That's why in so many 90s documentaries, you see them talking about the look and "dark mindset" when those things were never the forefront of Goth. Goth has ALWAYS been about the music even after the 80s, it's just that the media misconstrued it and that's why you got a generation of kids falsely believe the trite they were pushing. Industrial Music,. Industrial music has always been it's own thing. It didn't come from Punk music and it didn't come from Goth neither, it came from Electronic music. And really, it's just another dark music-based subculture just like Goth. Fans of Industrial music are called Industrialists & Rivetheads. And fun fact, Industrial music started 2 years before Goth did. The only thing that Goth and Industrial share is that they're sometimes played together in clubs and it's only to maximize club profit by catering to two different music-based subcultures. It's pretty much like music festivals like Lollapalooza where its an event that caters to both Alternative Rockers, Punks, Metalheads, and Rap/Hip-Hop fans. It's really no different here. Punk Music. Um what? You do understand that the reason why Punk has other subgenres of music is because these subgenres use Punk sound characteristics that make them a true sub-genre. Art Punk, Skate Punk, Riot Grrl, Horror Punk, Hardcore Punk, Post-Hardcore, Pop Punk, etc. These all have the core sound foundation found in Punk but apply different things alongside the foundation that make it sound a bit different yet still a part of the Punk umbrella. Goth is literally the same thing, there is no such thing as "Classical Goth Music",. it's just Goth, sometimes broken down into waves (First wave = 80s, Second Wave = 90s, Third Wave = 00s). Goth also has actual subgenres, I don't know if you missed it in the video but I mentioned these subgenres. Darkwave, Deathrock, Coldwave, & Ethereal Wave. I didn't say that Post-Punk is a Goth genre because it isn't but Post-Punk is the origin of Goth music, Goth music took the foundation found in Post-Punk and expanded upon it more and that was how the Goth genre was born. That's why I made the distinction on why it's false to say all Siouxsie and The Banshees and The Cure's albums were Goth because they weren't. Furthermore why does there need to be a reason for why Goth music was written? You don't see this with genres of music. You don't see this with Metal so why would it be any for Goth? It's ridiculous. There doesn't need to be a reason ,all that matters is that Goth music came into existence by tweaking bits of Post-Punk and in turn created a new sound, that;s what a music genre is., it doesn't need a reason to exist other than offering different sounds. There is no Goth mindset that fuels it because if it were really about being dark and somber, any musician that does a sorrowful song would be Goth. Johnny Cash would be a Goth musician as he had a lot of sorrowful songs. But he isn't because his sound is not Goth, he's a Country musician who happens to have some sorrowful songs. Goth. Has. A. Sound. A distinct sound that makes it what it is. It is not a lyrical style. And fun fact, not all Goth songs romanticize death and tragedy. There are plenty of Goth songs that touch up on other subject matter. You're confusing Gothic lyrical content with Goth and any genre of music can sing about Gothic lyrical content. Kate Bush's "Wuthering Heights" for example, that is Gothic lyrical content. Gothic does not equal Goth. This is why Gothic Metal is not a subgenre of Goth because it uses no elements of Goth music, it's just takes inspiration form Metal but throws in classical instruments and the lyrical content is Gothic but not Goth. And this goes for the other darker styles of Metal (Doom Metal, Black Metal, & Symphonic Metal). A lot of the songs found in these genres can be dark, haunting, romantic, or tragic yet these aren't considered Goth genres because of the overall SOUND. Read it SOUND. Where is the reverbed guitar? Where is the drum-machine or mellow-tone drum style? Where is the Thumping Bass guitar? Where is the 4/4 rhythmic playing with no use of a heavy back beat? Metalheads listen to Metal Music. Industrialists/Rivetheads listen to Industrial Music. Punks listen to Punk music. Emos listen to Post-Hardcore music. And Goths Listen to Goth music. That's just how it is and it's how it's always been. If you're going to be saying that Goth is a mindset, you may as well say that for other genres like Metal.
@@KaiDecadence Thank you for breaking it down for me. I understand my misconception now. I was confusing the terms goth and gothic. As the word goth is in gothic I think this is where most people get confused as they think goth and gothic are interchangeable words. And due to this confusion I mistakenly thought you were saying gothic is only a music genre. What I was trying to say is gothic is a mindset and I confused word goth with gothic. Understand that when people like me say "goth" what's going on in our head is we think that goth is just a slang shortening of the word gothic. And perhaps its that too, but now I know that it's also a distinct music genre that gets confused with the abbreviation of the word gothic. The weird thing is I actually like goth music, alot of my ipod is goth, but I never knew it was called goth until recently. I always thought goth was typical "gothic" stuff. See the confusion? But the goth music is not the reason why I dress in black. I do that because I'm appealed by gothic art and style. Until now I always though goth was just an abbreviation of the word gothic. So when someone said I'm goth, they really meant gothic, but they were just shortening the word to its misleading slang term. I think when people say something is goth, what is really happening is they're abbreviating the word gothic. So there may be goth the abbreviated form of the word gothic and goth the music genre. I dont think anyone is purposely trying to steal the goth music genre and claim it as their own. I did read up on the 90's overlapping of goth and industrial music styles leading to this confusion and a culture of "industrial goth". It may also be that the abbreviation goth and the goth music genre, because they share the same word often get mingled and confused. So as I understand it and according to the Webster's dictionary there are three meanings to the word 'goth': -Goths, the East Germanic people. -Goth a distinct music genre. -Gothic is an attitude & mindset and the word gothic has a colloquial abbreviated form (goth) not to be confused with goth the music genre. So questions; are goths (music) necessarily gothic? Does the music genre named goth even derive from the word gothic or are these terms just a happy confused coincidence? Is someone goth just because goth music is one of their favorite genres? I'm only recently discovering what all these terms actually mean and where they belong and you've helped out with that. Thx
I never said they did. I'm assuming you're talking about the quick little slide where I had a bunch of religious symbols together. Yeah I wasn't implying they were the same, just that they were all beliefs. I'm well aware the Pentagram is a wiccan symbol and the upside down cross is the cross of St. Peter, the Catholic faith.
But doesn't that make you goth because being a fan of the music is the most important part of identifying as goth? I don't actually care just curious lol
im always in between the goth music and metal 😅 i adore the sound of London after midnight, suspiria, specimen and alien sex fiend etc, but also adore the sound of cradle of filth, witching hour and The awakenig etc. i could listen to all of it every day so i never know what i like more (both probably?). some days i listen to goth music more and other days other shit more, depends on the mood, really. i also dont know how to sort Witching hour (1991) or The awakening (1995), because of the late formation of the bands. Have you any idea? thank you
That's all cool and all though I hope you're not categorizing Cradle of Filth as a goth band like the other bands you listed 😅 But yeah going with the bands you selected, sounds like you are really into the second wave of goth music which I can totally understand. I'm not sure what you mean by "sorting" Witching Hour and The Awakening though, mind explaining what you mean?
@@KaiDecadence hahaha im totally aware that Cradle of filth is metal 🤣 for The awakening im not sure if its fall more into metal than goth genre. newer songs sounds more metal influenced to me. i think witching hour (UK) is goth, but i dont know in what subgenre of goth it really belongs by sound. i hope now my dilemma is less confusing 😉 you're right i like the sound of 90 goth music more than 80. not that Sisters of mercy, Banshees or Bauhaus in not good, but i dont listen to them as often as 90 bands
Re Victorian era, Mourning actually became fashionable, (as did seances and the occult) because of Queen Victoria's deep mourning for Bertie. It wasn't just about 'respect for the dead' the Victorians were obsessed. Also, the architecture of the time was largley neo gothic. While these things don't constitute 'goth', they certainly influenced the way the darkly inclined (now, I dunno if that included Goths, bc thats just music, right?) dress and express themselves.
That's actually a huge misconception. They weren't obsessed with the occult. They were just into whatever the Queen was into because she was the queen and what society dictated even if the people didn't really care for it. Being ostracized was something you didn't want to be back in those times. Reputations were a huge thing back then and If you dared to step out of line of what was etiquette and tradition, you could destroy your entire future. And another thing is that a lot of the rich people wore black only because the Queen wore black. The queen was seen as high royalty and something to aspire to. And even then, it was only popular for mourning, not everyday wear. It was a transitional period where you wore black after the person died and you gradually wore brighter colors when you were going through the grieving period. Also to note, wearing black for mourning wasn't started by Queen Victoria, it was started by the Romans. Queen Victorian only popularized the concept in her time but again, she only ever wore it for Mourning, not every day wear. The other thing is that Queen Victoria spent the rest of her days in morning hence why she continued wearing black to her death after her husband passed. This was also common for some other widows but it was also done to avoid a second marriage. Marriage during mourning was not socially acceptable. "Obsessed with death". Actually no, they weren't obsessed with Death but rather, they were fearful of being buried in unmarked graves, having their graves robbed or possible body snatching, Another unfortunate fact is that the poor would save money for funeral expenses and basically starve their children to death because death rates were so high in low income houses that they were afraid of their children being buried in unmarked graves. And finally on the architecture. Again no. Not all of it was "Gothic". Most of the architect was actually Italianate Renaissance revival and Greek Revival. True Gothic architect was mostly only reserved for the extremely wealthy and flamboyant. And it was not about being into the dark and macabre, it was about showing off your wealth, flamboyance, and how rich you were to the commoners. and superstitious beliefs. Like for example, it was considered bad luck to keep your mourning wear after your mourning transition was over and stuff like that. It wasn't about obsession with death. If you're curious to read up on this, here on some links. But sorry for the length of the reply. www.victoriana.com/VictorianPeriod/mourning.htm victorianmonsters.wordpress.com/victorian-funerary-practices/ www.tchevalier.com/fallingangels/bckgrnd/mourning/
Gatekeeping is a complex topic but I feel you. There's a lot of confusion around the term goth, and around the term emo too (which obviously has nothing to do with goth, but is misused and the two terms are commonly, but incorrectly, used interchangeably). I find it difficult to discuss the kind of music I like to people outside of music or subculture oriented spaces without being hyper specific and naming bands. Do you like other post-punk or just goth btw? Edit: Also very curious about your opinion on The Weeknd using a Siousie and The Banshees sample. If you don't know what I mean, listen to the song House of Balloons.
Yeah I'm very aware that emo has been just as misappropriated as goth has been, specially when you learn that popular bands like MCR, Paramore, and Fall Out Boy don't make emo music but many people believe they do. And it's the same deal for me when I talk music with people outside of the scene as well as many of the bands that I like are obscure by mainstream standards so I don't really get many moments of being able to connect with music offline lol. And yes I do like some post-punk but overall I do lean more towards goth. And to answer your question on The Weekend sample, I gave it a listen and I don't think it sounds good. Imo it sounds tonally incoherent.
Thank goodness we have a thing called "Schwarze Szene" (Black Subculture), where everything with that darkly inclined, gothic or goth aesthetic and sound* is featured, because it's not mainstream or metal or else, it's closer to goth but still not goth. I am both because I love many of the other dark genres besides the Goth Genres. *Genres like Symphonic Metal, real Industrial, Industrial Metal (Bands like Marilyn Manson, Nine Inch Nails, The Shanklin Freakshow, Rob Zombie... are more metal then real Industrial), Neue Deutsche Härte/NDH (German pendant to Industrial Metal, Rammstein, Oomph!...), dark/mysterious medieval music, EBM, Dark Synthpop (a Genre that is also enjoyed by many trad goths), Daek Cabaret, Dark Circus, dark Alternative... (but not Emo).
Hi Kai, Just wanted to thank you so much for taking the time and effort to share your insight, feedback, and advice with us in your videos! I don't often post much, but wanted to express how grateful I am to RUclipsrs like you for helping to understand the differences between the genres (and sub genres). I feel that through time in watching you and other RUclipsrs, I've been able to discover bands I would have never found on my own, and ultimately, become more confident in finding out more about myself. I hope that you will continue uploading videos, because your opinions and feedback are really well-organized, thoughtful, and researched. All best! -Source
You're very welcome and thanks, that's pretty much the gist of these videos I do where I want to help people interested in experiencing the authenticity of what the genre is and not what the media has misconstrued for about a decade lol.
The French immersion class in my grade last year and I happen to had some friends in there. They were making a movie and one of the characters happen to be dark and spooky, everyone had said they were "the class goth" of the movie, I had to explain that he wasn't
I prefer to think of my clothing style as "alternative", as I take inspiration from everything from goth to lolita to emo. I also have a wide variety of music that I like.
That's fine and all. My main points were not about how you dress though lol It really was just getting down to the heart of the matter which is a simple, if you listen to Goth music, actual Goth music, you're still a Goth no matter what you dress like. You can like a variety of music but if Goth (be it Goth rock, Darkwave, Coldwave, Deathrock, or Ethereal Wave) isn't a part of that variety, then calling yourself Goth would be pretty redundant. That's really all I was getting at in the video, well towards the end anyway lol.
I find myself to be different from Goth, and I don't even feel bad about it. I feel the dark stuff in me, yes but also other things of out of this world. I'm more of a dark glamour headed freak. I have more than just dark colourful things in my life...also flourish in the bright, colourful things to...I am darkly and brightly inclined.
So in other words, not a goth but darkly inclined unless y oy like band's like Bauhaus, sisters of mercy, she past away, Suspiria, love like blood, Lebanon Hanover, etc no?
I still love them to. I just don't like slapping labelz on me. I was once a Goth, but realized I wanted more than just that. I am everything I love. I love makeup and nail polish and wild imaginative clothing.
In one of the comment sections of a goth video, someone falsely spammed this, "Skulls represent dead bones because goths adore death. Most goths worship the devil and take tattoos and piercings. The demonic star represents the demon they worship who'll just ignorantly neglect and have them live in hell with him. It's like how Christians wear crosses for Jesus. Most of these goth individuals also practice witchcraft. So I understand why the mother shields her kids' eyes from this. If you see a sociopath doing bad things and acting in non-formal ways of course you wouldn't want your child to look up to that. So the girl shouldn't get angry for being judged when she dresses like that. It isn't Christianity at all and it's more than a fashion choice but teenagers these days are so ignorant and stupid not listening to us and seeing what shit they're getting themselves into." Which is VERY wrong. Goth is a music culture, it isn't a Satanic group, as you said. Also, we do NOT hang out somewhere, practicing witchcraft, planning to take over the world. And the goth person in the video was literally going to the store (but she also said it's a fashion style, but she said she was wrong in one of the videos reacting to her and that it is a music culture) But yeah, none of what he said was true at all
Love the video. Same on the bands. I learned about goth music from bothers ex. When I got older fell in love with the sound. Funny my bother a metal head. When I hear people say disturbed or system of a down. I face pome every time. I heard someone say slipknot before also. I give up....
They didn't use "Goth" to describe them, they used the term "Gothic" and just to describe their tone. Goth and Gothic are not the same thing. Goth is an actual sound. Refer to this video to hear what the sound actually is ( ruclips.net/video/4GsskYEDgrE/видео.html )
A number of people think that Goths are either pagan or Satanists. Just because they wear black, dyed their hair black (or their is naturally black) and/or listen to music that's goth(ic) or darkly similar. I had a feeling that Evanescence wasn't a Goth band just because of their first album screams goth. I not exactly sure if The Rasmus is a goth band because of their later work (2004- onwards). Some of their music videos (and one of their songs) have that gothic feel to it.
Yeah the whole Pagan and Satanism thing is true in that people think Goths are these things but they're not, Goth is not a religion, it's purely just a music-based subculture. And speaking of which, Evanescence were never Goth and the only reason people thought they were was because of Amy's look but even her look, it doesn't look "Goth" at all, more so just dark. But there's a bit more confusion I'm seeing in your comment with the conflation of Goth & Gothic and for that, if you have the time I highly suggest checking out these two videos I did where I talk about these things.They're a bit long but I'm sure they will help you out and answer your questions :D ▶ Difference between Goth, Gothic, and Darkly-Inclined ~ ruclips.net/video/lk_QKoWWh2E/видео.html ▶ What is Goth music? ~ ruclips.net/video/4GsskYEDgrE/видео.html
that was very informative, im a bit new here but im very curious to join the culture and i still need to learn so many things, i guess im finally understanding this a bit better now!
Well to start things off, Goth is not a culture, it's a "Subculture", a music-based subculture/scene. Honestly all you need to know is that Goth is a music genre as well as the term used to describe the fans of said music. I did a whole video about Goth music and addressed misconceptions if you're wanting to get a 101 lesson sortaspeak. ▶ What is Goth? ~ ruclips.net/video/4GsskYEDgrE/видео.html ▶ Misconceptions of Goth (The difference between Goth, Gothic, and Darkly-Inclined) ~ ruclips.net/video/lk_QKoWWh2E/видео.html
The idea of goth as a mindset is technically not true, at least when it comes to the goth subculture as opposed maybe to gothic literature. But I can't help but feel that it nonetheless did have a positive effect as long as it lasted. Because what it did was provide somewhat of a "safe space" for certain mentalities that aren't well received in society.
I remember when I was in middle school and into things like Johnny the Homicidal Maniac, I briefly called myself a goth, because I figured it just went hand in hand. But once I actually started looking into the subculture and listening to the music, I quickly realized that I wasn't one and had no desire to be one. No offense to your interests, if you get something out of it then that's great, but I've never enjoyed listening to goth rock, nor do I vibe with the goth style or ideas. I came to understand that I was more into the "oddball and/or demented" field, which can bleed into "darkly-inclined" depending on what it is. But I'd much rather listen to Primus or one of the 90s alt rock bands (Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, etc) than most any goth rock band. Closest I'll get is Lacuna Coil, who I can listen to to a certain degree, but wouldn't make a "top 10" list for me. Also, I guess if I go for "genre proximity or derivation", then I would say Oingo Boingo, Art of Noise, Faith No More, or something like REM or The Smithereens. Also gotta love your discussion of "elitism" and what makes you truly goth, because man, when I was looking into the punk/goth world, that kinda thing was a huge deal, and I've always been torn on it. I can definitely feel the frustration towards people that act like they're a part of something but don't really understand it, but I do also think people can get pretty douchey towards those that "don't meet their standards." The metal world, which I'm a little more into, has this problem too, but what can you do? People are people, after all, as an 80s band once said.
A few things. You can be into dark things without being a Goth. All Goth is is a music genre that consists of 4 other sub-genres (Goth Rock, Deathrock, Darkwave, Coldwave, & Ethereal Wave) and to describe fans of Goth music. From what you said, you just sound Alternative. "Alternative" aside from a music genre is also a word used to describe people who are into the unconventional and "odd". Things that aren't considered mainstream and there's nothing wrong with it. I personally really like 90s Alternative Rock myself so I do get it. On the so called "Elitism", again it's just people blowing things out of proportion. There is no "Goth standard". The only thing needed to be Goth is to like/listen to Goth music. It's no different than being a Metalhead where to be a Metalhead, you have to listen to Metal music and it's no different with Goth which just like Metal is a music-based scene. It doesn't matter how you dress (though yes, there are some styles that did come out of Goth music that do influence some of our personal styles) and it doesn't matter if you like non-Goth music as well, the main thing is just liking Goth music among the other music you listen to. Also Lacuna Coil are not a Goth band, they started out as a Gothic Metal band (Gothic Metal is not Goth music, it's a Metal sub-genre) but post 2006 after their album "Karmacode", they went Alternative Metal & Nu Metal. You bringing up Lacuna Coil as "Goth" music makes me suspect that maybe you're not aware of Goth music and more specifically, it's sub-genres so for that if you are open or curious about Goth's sub-genres, maybe check out this video where I do a little dive into Goth music and share a few bands/songs that the genre has to offer because you might actually find a song or even sub-genre that peaks an interest. The video is a little long so I recommend watching it when you have the extra free time or in parts but yeah, just figured I'd share. ( ruclips.net/video/4GsskYEDgrE/видео.html )
@@KaiDecadence Well, yes, of course you can like dark things and not be goth. I expressed that in my original comment. As for the alternative thing, well, I don't generally like to label myself, but you're probably right in that it's probably the closest I can get to describing my tastes. Mostly because I often feel like I'm in the middle of everything taste wise (not quite mainstream, not quite arthouse, etc) and I do like off-kilter stuff. And generally a lot of the stuff I like musically would probably be thrown in the alternative banner anyway (or at least they would have at the time). Well, things might have calmed down over the years, I'm sure, but my father would probably have a very different perspective on what it was like back then. He was in the metal scene back in the 80s, and was also aware of the punk and goth scenes too. There was a lot more push-back and gate-keeping going on in those days. I think you misunderstood, or maybe I didn't word this properly. What I said was that Lacuna Coil was the "closest thing I'll get" to goth or gothic music. I wasn't calling them goth rock. Trust me, back when I was looking into this stuff, I listened to a pretty good amount of goth rock bands and didn't like any of them. These were bands like, Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, This Mortal Coil, Cocteau Twins, Red Lorry Yellow Lorry, and even London After Midnight. I guess I could have thrown Lacuna Coil in with the "genre proximity" list, but they were the closest to that "gothic melodrama" feel, so I just wanted to highlight them. Hell, I could've highlighted Faith No More, since especially early on they were basically post-punk/proto-goth with metal guitars, but they never quite had that gothic melodrama feel, so I decided against it.
@@JTHMSqueeMrEffDBoy Well I mean labels aren't necessarily a bad thing. They help describe a thing and in the case of "Alternative", it's just a phrase to describe people who aren't bothered or occupied with what is considered mainstream and trendy. Maybe even prefer a personal style that is seen as different or out there. I'm just being frank. The people who complained about "elitism" in Goth were usually those who don't even like Goth music anyway and were just pissed that they weren't considered Goth because they don't like the thing that Goth is centered around. With the exception of the 80s Elitist who thinks that any Goth music made after the 1980s is not real Goth music, majority of the fans are not like that and so long as you like Goth music among your other music you like, that's really all there is to it. Very simple. Well "Goth" and "Gothic" even in the music sense are different. "Goth" is just the genre that came from Post-Punk and consisted Goth Rock, Deathrock, Darkwave, Coldwave, and Ethereal Wave. "Gothic" never mean music tied to "Goth" and really only referred to architecture, Art, Literature, and Film and eventually was used as a theming in Metal music ("Gothic Metal") where the lyrics would make reference to Gothic Literature. I'm not sure what you mean by "Gothic melodrama", if you're just talking about a Dark tone/feel then I mean... Any genre of music can have that, Goth's primary characteristic that makes it what it is assuming you saw the video, was it's guitar style dubbed "Scything". And that's why I cannot fathom how anyone could even vaguely link Lacuna Coil to the Goth genre, especially their newer stuff post Karmacode era. And even then, their early stuff had nothing in terms of "Dark" feel compared to other Gothic Metal bands like Theatre of Tragedy, Tristania (when Vibeke Stene was in the band), and Artrosis but that's just my opinion of course.
I always find it difficult to deside which a bands are Goth especially on the German music scene and I personally don't care if they are or not . I grew up with The Mission , Sisters of Mercy ,Cure , Fields of the Nephilim , Rossetta Stone and Bauhaus and one can't just keep listening to these . These were released 30 years ago
If you find it difficult to decipher whether a band is Goth regardless of the country, you just haven't learned what the goth sound really is and need to listen to more goth bands to really get it but to save you some time, I made a video for this very problem to at the very least, help newcomers or people who still aren't sure what the Goth sound is have some insight of what to listen for. Give this video a listen if you have the time, I go over the instrumental quirks that make Goth what it is. ( ruclips.net/video/4GsskYEDgrE/видео.html ) > 𝘐 𝘨𝘳𝘦𝘸 𝘶𝘱 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘔𝘪𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯 , 𝘚𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘴 𝘰𝘧 𝘔𝘦𝘳𝘤𝘺 ,𝘊𝘶𝘳𝘦 , 𝘍𝘪𝘦𝘭𝘥𝘴 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘕𝘦𝘱𝘩𝘪𝘭𝘪𝘮 , 𝘙𝘰𝘴𝘴𝘦𝘵𝘵𝘢 𝘚𝘵𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘉𝘢𝘶𝘩𝘢𝘶𝘴 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘤𝘢𝘯'𝘵 𝘫𝘶𝘴𝘵 𝘬𝘦𝘦𝘱 𝘭𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘦𝘯𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘰 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘴𝘦 . 𝘛𝘩𝘦𝘴𝘦 𝘸𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘳𝘦𝘭𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘦𝘥 30 𝘺𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘴 𝘢𝘨𝘰 No where did I say that those bands or really any of the other goth bands from the 80s and 90s were the only goth bands. Goth music never went anyway and was continually made through the 2000s, the 2010s, and is pushing into the 2020s. The only difference was that goth music wasn't being as heavily made in the early 2000s compared to the 90s before it but eventually there was a revival in the late 2000s, early 2010s what with notable newer bands like Angels of Liberty, She Past Away, and Drab Majesty to name a few critically acclaimed bands. If you're looking for new goth music, you're on one of the best sites to find it which is here on RUclips. I've made so many playlists dedicated to showcasing newer Goth bands, check these out when you have the time. ( Modern Goth Bands 2010-2020 ) - ruclips.net/p/PLfy8BY8wU0RMcHcYh-3kzeJUqLNlZz3Nd
How about Mono inc , Blutengel ,Lord of the Lost ,Cruxshadows and Pitchfork Project ? As for Angels of Liberty I knew Scarlet and saw but never understood She Past Away ,yes I know its Turkish . Will look up Drab Majesty though
@@thegremlin3194 • Mono Inc ~ So admittedly I hadn't listen to them in awhile, they weren't a band I particularly paid attention to. I listened to a couple songs to refresh my memory and from what I've heard, no they don't do Goth rock. What they actually do is Hard Rock. In a way they're like the male equivalent of Evanescence and a heavier version of HIM where they add in some classical tones to the Hard Rock sound but they just don't utilize the key element of Goth rock which is scything guitar which keeps their sound from being Goth Rock. • Lord of the Lost ~ Never heard of them so looked them up and gave them a listen and they are Gothic Metal. Gothic Metal =/= Goth, it's a sub-genre of Metal. • The Cruxshadows ~ The Cruxshadow's first album 1993's "Night Crawl In" was a Goth rock album and their second album 1995's "Telemetry of a Fallen Angel" was a combination of Darkwave and Synth Pop. And last but not least their third album 1999's "Mystery of the Whisper" was a mix of Darkwave, Synth Pop, and Futurepop. 9 out of 17 of the songs on that album were Darkwave while the rest were Futurepop with one Neoclassical song. But after this album, The Cruxshadows moved on to ditching Goth entirely and made the full migration to playing and alternating between Futurepop and Synthpop and only played Darkwave whenever they played their old songs at live shows. They went on to release 5 more albums since this and are now just considered a Futurepop band. and Futurepop is not a Goth sub-genre, it's a sub-genre of EBM which by extension was a sub-genre of Industrial. To answer your question though, no The Cruxshadows are not Goth, at least not anymore. They started out Goth but eventually moved away and found a home in the Futurepop style of music. • Pitchfork Project ~ They are an Industrial band but more specifically, they mostly dabbled and played around with Electro-Industrial, EBM, and Futurepop but they've also done the occasional Synth Pop song as well. In short though, no they are not a Goth band. They are one of those bands that got wrongly misgenre'd as Darkwave by people who don't know what Darkwave music actually sounds like. • Blutengel ~ Blutengel started out as EBM with some Synth Pop but eventually went on to do Futurepop music while still playing the occasional EBM and Synth Pop song. Blutengel are one of the biggest examples of a band being mislabled as Goth or more specifically, Darkwave by people who didn't know what Darkwave actually sounds like. Point is, they never were Goth/Darkwave,. Hope this helps.
Interesting comments and I am not surprised by many of your comments and have argued a couple of them but all have been labeled as Goth by some people . Ill stick with Witching Hour and Ligea though many thanks for your comments Ed
@@thegremlin3194 > 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙝𝙖𝙫𝙚 𝙖𝙧𝙜𝙪𝙚𝙙 𝙖 𝙘𝙤𝙪𝙥𝙡𝙚 𝙤𝙛 𝙩𝙝𝙚𝙢 𝙗𝙪𝙩 𝙖𝙡𝙡 𝙝𝙖𝙫𝙚 𝙗𝙚𝙚𝙣 𝙡𝙖𝙗𝙚𝙡𝙚𝙙 𝙖𝙨 𝙂𝙤𝙩𝙝 𝙗𝙮 𝙨𝙤𝙢𝙚 𝙥𝙚𝙤𝙥𝙡𝙚 Again, that is because a lot of people, especially back in the 2000s were labeling any dark sounding electronic music as "Goth" or "Darkwave" when it really wasn't. Blutengel, The Cruxshadow's later work post-1999, and Project Pitchfork were the biggest examples of this misinformation as well as the entirety of people not understanding the difference between Darkwave and EBM (and Futurepop) music. But nonetheless, you're welcome.
My viewz and opinionz on Goth are different from yourz,and I won't disclose what differences but, I do admire how much wizdom you express in theze videoz. I mean you actually put Goth guitar sythe stringz on computer to show what they sound like.
I'm a goth who jokingly calls lots of dark or simply just black colored things goth. Like I call dark chocolate oreos goth oreos (because they are all black oreos) and I really hope no one thinks I'm serious lol. I never stoped to think someone may not think that I'm joking till now.
Oh no, I think it's one thing if you're just joking around with people who know what Goth truly is because we're usually all on the same page but it's when you do it around newbies or people who don't know what Goth truly is about that can create some problems and confusion because they won't know you're joking unless you say so.
Never said a goth can't listen to other music. If you like Motown, cool. What I'm saying is that if you listen to Motown but you don't listen to Goth music then it's redundant to call oneself a Goth when they don't partake in what the scene is about which is music. That's all I was getting at in the video. Heck check out my playlists on my channel and you'll see what other music I listen to besides Goth.
Yeah it was just something I was seeing so much of and it was getting frustrating to see with this whole Black object = Goth mentality. I just had to speak up LOL. And Oh man Jack Skellington. I love The Nightmare Before Christmas, it was a beautiful work of claymation but that being said, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't annoyed with the worship of the franchise and how it's toted as the best "Goth thing" ever and that just falls back into my Goth vs Darkly-Inclined spheal where the movie is not a "Goth" movie.
One thing I can't stand is this micro-labels for each style like "corp goth" "nu goth" "cyber goth" "Cabaret goth" like maybe I'm being ignorant or maybe I'm not educated, but what does this have to do with the music ?
Honestly those terms really have nothing to do with the music and at most, most of them are misappropriated styles of "Goth". "Cyber Goth", "Cabaret Goth", "Perky Goth", "Mopey Goth", etc. those are not actual Goth styles. In the grand scheme though they aren't important.
@@KaiDecadence Exactly. I just don't understand why everyone has to brand themselves "Oh I'm a nu goth teehee" what does that mean!?! It confuses me and honestly sometimes I question if they have like... any idea what this subculture is about. But yeah no they're not important.
@@Fathergirl5000 In my honest opinion the ones who fret over that kinda stuff of "what kind of goth am I", they tend to not actually be interested in the music, at least from what I've observed. Usually they're the ones who will say they like "all kinds of goth music" and then never follow up with any bands and then you take a look at the kind music they share/post and it's usually metal bands or in this day, "mumble rap" artists. But that's been my own observation.
People come after me with pitchforks online anytime I mention that goth is an actual subculture with a rich music history and not just a fashion (had to leave Facebook for this reason)
I'm pretty sure I know which Facebook group you're talking about and I would say, pay them no mind. It happened to me too but I ended up getting banned haha.
Same. I get a lotta discrimination for it. Like, come on. It’s a lifestyle. I’ve even gotten judgement from fellow goths for being a Christian goth. Obviously, not as much as the judgement I get from some Christians lol. Anyway, don’t listen to them. You’re perfect the way you are🖤(On a separate note, bru. Your hair is so freaking beautiful.)
@@cborgcyborg1150 What type of stuff did they say because you where Christian?
@@frillylily8005 mostly stuff like “you don’t belong” and “nobody likes you.” Ya know simple stuff like that. It’s the very small minority of goths who say that so I don’t mind. The ones I really know personally are very kind and at the end of the day that’s all a person needs
@@cborgcyborg1150 So ironic because goth takes/uses a lot of Christians symbols?
the hilarious part about the Victorian photos is - they're black and white pictures!! a lot of the time, people see what they think is a black dress, and actually it could be navy, dark green, purple etc etc. I have seen so many examples of women wearing gowns that seem to be black or grey, and the real dress is in a museum, and it's actually really colourful!!
Haha yeah that's another angle I should've included but was more focused on explaining the difference of thought back in the day since black was a color worn by the working class a lot of the time and since they were poor, all they could wear on a daily basis was their work clothes. The wealthy people were able to wear all kinds of color. But the point is, it was not goth haha.
But I totally get you, I regret not adding that bit in lol
@@KaiDecadence haha! sorry, it wasn't meant as a criticism at all, just another thing that bothers me when people use Victorian photography to back up their claims that goth was around in the Victorian era.
Oh it's totally fine. This probably won't be the last time I bring the Victorian thing up as I have another video planned where it's going to be relevant again so I'll definitely be sure to include this in it. :)
Another pet peave is when some one DECLARES THEY'RE GOTH AFTER READING AN EDGAR ALLEN POE POEM
Oh honey don't even get me started on that one haha. I probably should make a part 2 sometime in the future lol
😳 🙄
I love Poe but... NO xd
I HATE that current brands have been putting pentagrams and other occult symbolism on clothing lately (LOOKING AT YOU, KILL STAR). I bet a lot people that are buying those brands don't know what half of the symbols being used even mean.
I mean, the brands can do whatever they want. The problem is the wider ignorance surrounding what is goth. People feel like Killstar is goth and that if they can't afford Killstar merch they can't be goth, when really, neither of those things are true. But heaven forbid you point this out lest you be labeled an [insert spooOOooky voice] Elitest Gatekeeper Of All That Is Goth!!
Yeah... I have actually come across some younger people who genuinely thought the symbols like the Pentacle, Baphomet, and the Alchemic Sulfur were "goth" symbols... So I am convinced that what you said is kinda true for some.
This too. It's not so much the brand (even though is tacky and juvenile to make prints out of these symbols in my opinion) but the people (usually younger) who misappropriate things. It's kinda the reason why Killstar is thought of as the 2010 Mallgoth as it births some uneducated young kids/teens thinking their products are "Goth" products when they aren't. I can't even recall Killstar ever making Goth band merchandise.
What's worse though? Kids not knowing that the symbols have had connotations of being evil or wearing them because they think they're evil (when some are just supposed to be symbols of knowledge or harmony) and being "edgy"? For me it's people not knowing (or not even caring to know) about the evil the symbols can represent. That having been established, I also see how a Pagan or Satanist would be incensed beyond belief at seeing their esteemed symbols being made a mockery by their local mallgoths.
@@justgween7573 that's a tough call but both situations are pretty shit imho. I suppose I brought up kills tar and other designers in the first place because that's my pet peeve. Stop wearing symbols if you don't know what they mean! (that's not towards anyone here specifically btw!)
I wish more darkly inclined people would realize that “not being Goth” is not a character judgement. I don’t identify as Goth even though I like the music because I’m primarily a metal guy who loves Gothic horror. Great video that I’ll share with my more hard in the paint Goth friends.
Exactly. I think some Darkly-Inclined people feel that if you tell them they aren't Goth based on the fact that they don't listen to or like Goth music, they think you're attacking them and trying to invalidate their likeness for dark things when that isn't true and that they don't realize that they can still be into dark things without being Goth.
@@KaiDecadence BTW as a classic Disney fan I love your art style.
@@d.christophertatum2936 Thanks!
So if someone has a "darkly-inclined" mindset, why not just call it Goth? It's a made-up word to begin with. Used to be a warring tribe, nowadays people gave it a different meaning. "Real" goths, listening to "real" goth music gatekeeping saying you're not Goth unless you listen to those old Goth bands is like if a medieval Gothic warrior came back as a spirit and told you you're not a real Goth, you don't even wear armour.
@@kurtslavain But goth isn’t about the mindset, it’s about the music. It’s like the same for a lot of other sub alt categories like metal for example. You can’t claim yourself as a metal head when you don’t listen to any metal at all. Same principle here for goth.
Goth pet peeve:
me: "i like goth music"
people: "so you like Korn"
me: 😑
There's only one way I can respond to things like that when they happen... ruclips.net/video/uAHY-Ly5s-I/видео.html
When the fuck did people start calling korn goth?
Even though I love Korn, but even when I went from scene before being goth, I never considered Korn goth lmao. I used to think Symphonic metal bands and doom metal were goth genres though.
staru letto Thank hot topics.
"so you like blink 182?"
Once, I saw a white girl claiming bands like The Birthday Massacre and Cradle of Filth are goth, and I VERY POLITELY told her that they weren't, but that I could show her some if she was interested.
She spent a whole week sending me racial slurs and only stopped because my reaction was thinking it was fucked up but hilarious.
Another time, something similar happened in a one-on-one chat, and the person started "screaming" at me in all caps about how I was invalidating their identity (comparing it to gender or sexual identity) and then blocked me when five seconds earlier we were in very friendly terms.
But we are the ones who take themselves too seriously and should loosen up. 🙄 I wish I was exaggerating these stories.
Now to an actual pet peeve of mine: Last time a went to a goth event (a free entry fair with different local stores selling varieties of stuff from fashion to tarot readings to decor and more, they're amazing) I swear to God, I saw ONE single notebook design that had: black cats, pentacles and other occult symbols, moon phases AND crystals. All at once. I wanted to scream, the only thing missing was Wednesday Addams or the word "witch" somewhere. I don't remember if it had skulls because I had to look away before my facial expression got rude. There was a lot of other stuff with like, Lucifer's sigil, Baphomets, pentagrams... I'm so tired of that type of aesthetic and I can't wait for the fad to die off.
Eugh... I don't freaking understand how people can seriously think a band like Cradle of Filth is Goth. I can sorta understand The Birthday Massacre as they're a little trickier but that's only because they play the genre Synth Rock and the only other mainstream-ish band that did that genre is Orgy but if they actually listen carefully, they'll see why Birthday Massacre isn't a Goth band. These people need to stop focusing on the look of the band and focus on the SOUND because that's what determines if a band is Goth or not. And it's hilarious how that girl resorted to petty insults just because you explained to her what Goth music is, if that isn't petty I don't know what is.
And sexuality/gender? Get the fudge outta here with that nonsense haha That is freaking ridiculous lol
And I so feel you on the tacky occult stuff. It's not "Goth", it never was Goth and the sooner this little fad dies, the better. If a person is genuinely into the occult, that is awesome but if you seriously think that liking that stuff makes you a Goth, yeah no, it doesn't.
@@KaiDecadence there are so many people into the occult who dont dress the part... occultists dont always look "scary" and "evil". Goth and occult aren't tied together.
Anyway, i like your videos.
@@ASMRyouVEGANyet Oh I wasn't implying that Occultists always look dark, I've seen occult enthusiasts who look like ordinary people so believe me, I know haha.
@@KaiDecadence Has to do with the whole Gothic metal genre which kind of really is not a genre.
@@evacody1249 Well actually Gothic Metal is a real genre, it came from Death-Doom Metal, that much is true and I just think people focus too much on COF's image.
Agreed on the topic of religion and belief- goths can be of any religion or no religion. While I am both a goth and a pagan, the two things are not related. You can be a hippy and a pagan, be punk and a pagan, etc... And everyone, please don't wear religious symbols you don't understand or hold any meaning to you. Faith is not a fashion statement
Yep exactly. It's just really about the music and the music has no religious stances at all.
A majority of people are wearing faith-/belief-based symbols just to be edgy. I know people claiming they're witches, when they don't practice Wicca. Then, they claim to practice black magic -- yeah, sure they do. I'll be honest, the only times I have religious symbols on my clothes is, because it reflects the beliefs of the band. I love Bathory, but the band shirt features Baphomet (not Satan, but a Satanic deity). I'm agnostic, so I'm doubtful that God and Satan actually exist. I want nothing to do with any organized faith or philosophy; I just follow my own path. Other than my band shirt fashion, I'd never wear random symbols, especially ones, with which I refuse to be associated. For example, I'd never buy a shirt featuring slogans, such as "Hail Satan" or "Evil Witch."
Yet, as an ex-Roman Catholic, it still drives me mad whenever the upside down cross, better known as St. Peter's cross, is associated with pagan beliefs. St. Peter felt he was unworthy to be buried in the same manner as Christ. Again, I'm doubtful of their existences, but that's what I was taught. So, for me the tackiness & misinformation represented by KillStar and similar stores leave little to be admired.
Yet, Kai, mainstream society, in particular, always associates pagan beliefs with the goth subculture. Just like everyone else, goths hold different beliefs. It's not steeped in religion, nor politics; it's derived from the music surrounding actual goth bands, like those you mentioned.
@@AndiV138 I just want to point out You can be a Witch and not practice Wicca/Not all witches are Wiccan (do not follow the Wiccan rede "rules"). Wiccans do call them self witches (they practice witchcraft). I myself am a Witch an Eclectic Witch- not Wiccan. Wiccan is sometimes/typically thrown around as an umbrella word for all witches. (And is recognized by the government). You can be Pagan and not do witchcraft etc..
Pertaining to the black magic comment- That's where Witch and Wiccan seperate. As mentioned- The Wiccan rede last wording -do what thy will and harm none - seperates Wiccans from Witches (typically). So if they are Claiming to be a Which they could possibly do dark magick.
So straightforward and factual... I love this video so much. This is the content I crave to see more of in the goth sphere of RUclips. And I’m glad to see you mentioned coldwave! People keep trying to shove it away and claim it had no relation to post-punk or the development of goth branches, but uhhhh... nooo.. Really great content and editing of this entire video.
Haha glad you enjoyed the video, I really wanted to get ut the main grievances I have when it to Goth so it was pretty cathartic to make LOL And really? I didn't know people did that with Coldwave. Granted I don't listen to a whole lot of Coldwave, I can see how it's a sub-genre of Goth so that's pretty annoying.
Cold-Wave is to indeed a substance of Goth music, and it iz one of my most loved out of the genres. So icy,dark and emotional in sound.
The part about elitism definitely resonates. The other day I was browsing lookbooks on RUclips and stumbled upon a tiktok compilation about the mall goth resurgence and someone in the comments was trying to explain how mall goths and real goths are not the same and was being relentlessly attacked for stating the obvious. The whole "don't be a gatekeeper" "stop being an elitist" popped up a few times. Sorry for the rant lol
No need to apologize, that's the kinda stuff that I'm talking about LOL It's so annoying and so inaccurate. I had a feeling it would be a thing with this "mall goth" revival and people thinking it's an actual Goth thing when it wasn't then and it still isn't now.
Omg the animation is adorable!
Thanks! :D
It is ❤❤❤❤
Thank you for making this.
I've been holding these same views for almost 10 years now.
Just a week back I was on a gothic subgroup on Facebook and there was a post regarding Goths and Goth music.
And some people took offense to me saying "You can't call yourself Goth if you don't listen to the music or support the scene".
That sentence never referred to the fact that a goth person is prohibited from listening to other genres.
I merely stated a reasonable fact, that if you label yourself a member of a group or subculture you abide by a fundamental standard.
In this case it's the music.
And I had all these people go ape-shit on me calling me everything under the sun from monstrous and vile, to discriminatory and disgusting for dictating to people what they should listen to.
And I was labelled an elitist.
The fact that I even apologized and had to explain myself to these people that I never intended to insult, was ridiculous.
But they proceeded to keep at it, calling me whatever they wanted with the willingness to ensure me that I was wrong LOL.
I don't care how a person dresses or for how long they've been listening to GOTH music.
I only care if they DO; if the buy the music, go to clubs or venues, go to concerts or festivals and generally support the survival of the scene.
Why is this such a hard concept to comprehend ?
Rappers listen to Rap, Metalheads listen to Metal, Rivetheads listen to Industrial, Ravers to Techno/House, Punks to Punk and SO ON.
Pretty self explanatory that all these groups don't solely listen to their group of music.
> That sentence never referred to the fact that a goth person is prohibited from listening to other genres.
EUGH! I freaking hate when people resort to this "rebuttal" because NO ONE is saying you can't listen to other music. All we're saying is that if you're calling yourself a "Goth" and Goth music is not part of your music collection, it's redundant to call yourself that.
Is it bad I think I have a good idea of what Facebook group you're talking about? LOL If it's the one I'm thinking about, I'm not surprised at the backlash because I got that so many times until they finally banned me because I was "problematic". Yeah sure lol.
And honestly, I think the reason why people can't comprehend Goth = Goth music is because of the last 2 decades of misappropriation of what Goth music actually is and the sayings like "Goth is whatever you want it to be", & "Goth is a mindset" which have contributed to this problem. I remember the same thing happening to Punk back in the late 90s, early 2000s when Pop Punk became a thing and people were saying "Punk is an attitude, not music" and then you started hearing musicians like Pink and especially Avril Lavigne being called "punk".
Lucky for Punk, it went back underground and had a revival in the sound and the same thing happened to Goth but because Goth was far more misappropriated than Punk, it's taking longer for Goth to fully recover but hopefully it will someday.
OMG dude you're taking the words right out of my mouth.
You're right!
It's so frustrating to see how an underground culture which thrives on staying behind the scenes has been so misappropriated.
This is why I'm so frustrated by the amount of these so-called "Goth" youtubers who only make dozens of Make-Up tutorials, unboxings, subcription box unpackings, fashion hauls etc.
They only show the aesthetic part, an element that people back in the day and true goths had to fight for, because it's a look that mainstream society generally doesn't accept.
The popularity of all these channels just takes away the impact and significance of ones own original look.
Instead I'd love more channels that talk about the MUSIC first of all, the ideology and bohemian aspect of it, and a lot more DIY.
Here in Romania we have our own Dark/Gothic festival called Dark Bombastic Evening in Alba Iulia within the walls of an old citadel.
This August was it's 9th year.
It's a smaller more personal event that hosts everything from Neo-Folk and Black Metal to Goth and Post-Punk.
An all underground event.
www.darkbombasticevening.com/
Well this year "And Also the Trees" played.
Amazing post-punk band.
More than half of the people who labelled themselves Goths (who only listen to mostly metal and folk btw =))) lol) didn't know shit about them.
I really just went into educational mode, because I was afraid I was gonna shout in a Tourrets manner "posers".
This happens at goth nights held in rock and metal clubs as well.
They open a Goth venue, but they'll play Marilyn Manson, Deathstars some Type O Negative(a band I love but not goth) and I'm just sitting there disappointed.
And of course I can't stand it so I bust out my phone and show them She Past Away, Drab Majesty, Ritual Howels, etc.
And some romanian stuff like Howling Saints & Terror Art.
ruclips.net/video/Fz1tTKYYW_g/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/VJTJV9Y06Uc/видео.html
And they're left wondering what the hell this shit is ? =))
It's insulting how people don't know where Goth comes from and misappropriate the term so much.
To be perfectly honestly with you friend, there are only a small and I mean, SMALL handful of "Goth RUclipsrs" I actually like and with the exception of one, the others are just smaller channels. I especially cannot stand 1 particular "Goth" RUclipsr (and I use "goth" in the loosest way possible) who I've grown to loathe in the last two years as this person is just someone playing dress up but in reality is not into Goth at all, just the shallow aspects. Her and her mate but I'm not going to name names, I think it's clear who I mean lol.
But yeah, that's the reason why I started covering some Goth topic content on my channel as I was getting tired of seeing nothing but hauls, hauls, and MORE HAULS. That along with the millions of makeup tutorials lol But I realized that complaining about it doesn't help so in order to see change, you have to be the change and well even if it means I'll be called an "elitist" for doing so.
Yeah, most "Goth nights" never get Goth music right. They always play Manson or Industrial Metal/Industrial dance type music with the occasional doom metal (Type O Negative) and call it a night. Absolutely insulting to actual Goths who are just wanting to have a night to come together and listen to some Goth music. And it only further misappropriates what Goth music actually is to the young venue goers and that is what results to people who don't know what actual Goth music sounds like and react negatively when they finally hear it.
Same here.
Yeah I know exactly who you're talking about lol.
I am so fed up with her channel and others like her.
Good on you realizing that "information is ammunition". ^_^
In my opinion if we can even hope to see Goth as an actual scene survive, we need to filter out the posers by informing the populace.
It sounds harsh and this will end up just making ourselves look like elitists, but there needs to be clear defined standards.
I agree with Nephilim Incorruptus that we shouldn't bother with all this and be mysterious about it.
But then I believe that by not informing people outside of it, then we just perpetuate misinformation.
Yeah and she's partly to blame for the misappropriation of Goth we've seen on RUclips for the last 2+ years now... -_-
And I agree, it's just best to put the proverbial foot down and say what is what when it comes to Goth because all the years of pussyfooting around it for fear of backlash just put the scene in worst shape than it already had been and if videos like this can help educate people about the subculture, than I think it's worth it despite getting the label of "elitist".
I won't lie, around my baby bat time I really did have more of a gothic mindset than I did with goth mostly because the influence of cartoons I watched as well as the literature and dark arts I grew up liking. The only time I really got exposed to goth is when my mom would play The Cure a lot but it took me a while to realize that The Cure was one of those influential bands in the goth scene. You can say, I used to think listening to bands like Evanescence or Doom metal like Cradle of Filth and Theatre of Tragedy, and even symphonic metal were goth music. But then I tried exploring more and thought maybe goth music in lines with The Birthday massacre and other new wave and synth pop music, BUT until one day after hearing the Cure was an influential goth band in goth FBs I've been in... And because I love the Cure, I decided to play them on Pandora to explore traditional goth bands and that's how my love for post punk music began.(because I like 80s rock music in general either way) but I even later asked for goth band recommendations and came across to Darkwave playlists and found bands I enjoy. While I still consider myself to have a gothic mindset, I really do enjoy goth music a lot more now these days than most genres. (I still enjoy metal, industrial, synthpop, and other things though) So maybe this can be an example of evolving to a goth? But I was once called an elitist when I tried correcting someone on FB goth group why Evanscence isn't goth and they saw it as some personal attack. (Lmao when I wasn't dissing, I even told them I'm a huge fan myself and went to their last tour but was just stating a fact that I even had to learn myself) And I do get a bit iffy when I see non goths make goth OCs on DA and would portray them as Satanic worshippers... When I make goth OCs, I not only make them darkly inclined, but I actually do show them their musical interest in goth music that's not just post punk. But this is a good video, I also see this as a guide on how to make proper goth OCs. Lmao you got me at Depeche Mode because I made that mistake with them a lot, and I usually say gothy as a joke so yeah.
Haha hey now, that's totally understandable and I think it's safe to say that a lot of us who were born post 80s kinda fell into the same trap of thinking bands like Evanescence, Marilyn Manson ,and any other Metal (including Symphonic, Doom, & Black) and Industrial music was Goth unless we had family or friends who knew what actual Goth music was.
And funny enough, when I first heard 80s Goth music that wasn't The Cure, I really didn't like it at first but as I kept digging, I found my love for 90s Goth bands like Love Like Blood, Nosferatu, Miranda Sex Garden, and Fields of the Nephilim (technically they're late 80s lol). And then after getting used to the sound, I went back to try the good old 80s stuff again and I actually liked it. I think the thing with Goth music is that since it's not played on any mainstream radio stations, it's an acquired taste kind of genre since it sounds nothing like you were probably expecting it to so you either A), accept it and try to get into it. B), you rage and go "This isn't Goth music" and continue mislabeling non-Goth bands "Goth" or C), you realize that maybe Goth isn't for you and you try out another subculture or music style.
The thing people need to understand is that just because you're not Goth (if you don't like the music) doesn't make your likeness for darkly inclined things any less valid. It just means you're Darkly Inclined or Gothic-inclined, that's all.
And oh man, I think I know what grou you're talking about LOL I got banned from it last year after getting involved in topics pertaining to music mislabeling so if it means anything, you aren't alone in that at all.
And it's funny you mention Goth OCs because I actually plan on doing a video for how to write Goth characters with what to do and what not to do but I'll be posting that on my Art channel "Decadent Draws" so stay tuned for that if interesting. :D
Anyway, very glad you enjoyed the video!
I guess its a common thing for baby bats that start out with the darkly inclined stage then XD Though I used to be a scene kid before first before I developed into a goth today but even when I was scene, I never really consider scene music goth and got irritated when people confuse the two. I do love me some symphonic metal, doom metal, industrial, and synth pop but yeah, confusion from media makes it confusing. Oh that's interesting, I had been checking more into 90s bands since I feel like I should branch out to other goth genres than just post punk. Yeah, it sucks they don't get played on radios because I wish there was a station dedicated to that genre of music. For me I just stuck with A and accepted it, since I grew to enjoy the sound anyways :P Exactly, Darkly Inclined and being Gothic isn't too bad, I even do consider myself both goth and gothic since dark things in music and art always fascinated me. Plus, I think both can help compliment each other despite their differences in things. Yeah that group and wow just for making certain topics?:O Lmao I once made a controversial post that an elder goth kind of lectured me that goth and gothic are the same thing and how he knows more about it than me and people keep telling me gothic is just an adjective for goth and I thought "But... I've seen elder goths talk about the difference with the two on youtube." but, eh whatevs. Oh, I don't think I checked that side channel of yours but I'm interested because its nice to see another goth that also loves to do art as well as character building and takes interest in animation than just the music and literature :DD
I agree with you totally and glad to see a new video from you. I do have a couple things I want to bring up.
1. This may not be the case but as far as victorian times being goth because the clothes appear black in the photos. A lot of the pictures were taken in black and white. Just because they appear black on film doesn't necessarily mean they were black in real life. Take the addams family tv show. The walls were actually pink, but because of b&w cameras they looked more grey. Anyway it could be a minor point but something worth sharing.
2. As far as Siouxsie and Robert Smith debuting the goth label. I've always thought of it as They along with bauhaus etc were sort of the... transitional stage between punk and goth. So while fans think of them as goth from their p.o.v. they never intentionally set out to make "goth" music so it could be seen as odd to them that they were put into that category.
1. That's a very good point about the lack of color photos back then. You're completely right n the money about that. :)
2. Another fair point but my explanation was merely pointing out that whether they planned it or not, their albums paved the wave for the Goth sound and influenced so many other Goth bands that came after them. So many Goth bands in the second and third wave give lots of thanks to the likes of Siouxsie and The Cure so their work truly was important in the foundation of the Goth sound even though they eventually moved on from the sound (well mostly, The Cure came back to it in 2004 with their last album they ever released while Siouxsie stayed in the alternative rock genre).
I was suggested to do a critique on your channel by someone. After viewing this video though I agree with you. It can be frustrating telling an Evanescence fan "that's not goth" and they think you're being a hater and it's just like "no it's just not goth". Great video 💀☠🖤
Interesting lol Yeah I'm pretty sure the only thing people would have against me on the topic of Goth is the fact that I personally believe that in order to be Goth, you have to have some likeness for Goth music. And that's something my stance will never change on. But thanks for at least watching the video to the end to see I'm not some boogeyman lol
@@KaiDecadence lol no I really do agree with everything you said here. It was very much on point.
@@JinksDeJenn Haha thanks
As a Goth act that has been adding in more contemporary elements, we can vouch for this a lot! Even when we bring in the aspects that would be very notably out of place on a regular Goth Rock/Darkwave record, we are always going back to these sounds and putting respect on those that work within the sound. It's frustrating though, as Darkwave has been starting to be used confusingly as a term for the darker side of the Synthwave movement. Regardless, we've been doing our own to contribute to the scene and we appreciate this video for being as brutally honest as it is. It's a great pointer and I hope some of the beginners get something out of this, or even look into any of these great bands and records pointed out here! Keep up the great content as always
You're very welcome! And oh man, I totally know what you mean with Darkwave being misappropriated for darker synthwave and even futurepop music and I'll tackle this in the future for sure. Glad you enjoyed the video. :)
I wont even lie i am more of a Visual Kei guy when it comes to style mainly my hair, ( i'd rock Squall's outfit though.) That tangent aside this was an interesting video.
Really it's not so much how you look but what you listen to. You can be a Goth who is into Goth music yet likes to wear another kind of style like Visual Kei or even casual wear lol. Just so long as Goth music is a part of your music collection, that's really all that matters if you're calling yourself "Goth". I mean, you wouldn't call yourself "Visual Kei" if you didn't like Visual Kei music right? Haha but yeah, glad you enjoyed the video. :)
WHOA! HOLD ON A MINUTE! 1.) I'm NOT "goth", 2.) I was ALWAYS "darkly inclined". I discovered this Myself WITHOUT external influences. Thx 😋 I like your video. 😄
Glad you enjoyed haha.
YEs!!!!!!!!!!! I adore you and agree so much with you as well, Even though I love the victorian era I know for a fact its not goth and some people get so annoyed when I remark this in person,
I wish we had more people like you making this types of videos to stop the idiocy because by now its nothing but willful ignorance, thank you so much again !
Aw thank you hon! Yeah, part of the reason why I made this video is because I NEVER see people talking about this stuff on RUclips and I figured that if I wanted to see a change, I'd have to just get the ball rolling myself even if it means being labeled an "elitist" for speaking the truth, especially with the Victorian thing. But again, thanks so much, glad you enjoyed the video!
@@KaiDecadence you inspire me to have a voice out in the scene I just hope I don't get my ass kicked one of this days.
Well I won't lie, you will get some opposition who will call you an "Elitist snob" for stating facts but aside from that, everything is going to be just fine. :D
I never heard of the Victorian era being referred to as "goth," that's something new. Of course, there were gothic/dark-natured aesthetics (literature, architecture, etc.) involved, but that didn't make it "goth."
Why should people get pissed when you're only trying to educate them? Well, the misinformed throw the word "elitist" around, especially when they feel as if others are pointing out or correcting their mistakes & misconceptions.
I really enjoyed this and found it super interesting plus nice use of Silent Hill music 🖤🖤🖤
Thanks! Yeah, you can never go wrong with Silent Hill music most of the time xD
Good video on popular net-stupidity, but it's really sad that these things need to be clarified, lol
Yeah I am too but it hasn't been said, at least not on RUclips (Facebook and places outside of RUclips are a different story though). I just felt compelled to just get this all off my chest as it has been bothering me for a long time now lol
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Thanks for explaining. I now concluded I am not a goth lol :)
Well I'm happy the video helped in some way. Like I said, you can be into dark and macabre things and not be a Goth lol
welcome back.
ALSO I LOVE VIRGIN PRUNES
Thanks and admittedly, I don't know a lot of Virgin Prunes songs but I've liked the ones I've heard so far haha.
Oh the Virgin Prunes, quite unique. I love Gavin Friday solo albums especially the first one. His theatrical personality and expressive voice.
thank you so much for this video! definitely worth the watch.
sadly I think it's quite widespread that people don't have any idea what the goth subculture is even about or have an inkling of what bands are goth, even people who refer to themselves as "goth"... I agree it's important not to misuse these terms, especially since there is so little awareness and goth bands are mostly unknown. if you're going to claim you're goth you should support goth music
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed the video and I agree because I almost could've fallen into that trap myself if I didn't buckle down and actually learn about the subculture and the music and how the music operates. But doing so also came with a price and that is seeing how misconstrued Goth actually is and has been for 15+ years. But thankfully there are people who do know the truth about Goth and that brings me comfort when I find or interact with them haha.
And yes if you're gonna call yourself Goth, you should have enjoyment or likeness for actual Goth music. Metalheads listen to Metal, Punks listen to Punk music, and Emos listen to Emotive Hardcore / Post-Hardcore music. Goth is no different because it too is a music-based subculture.
I was wondering why you stopped posting! I'm glad you are back and I enjoyed the video 🖤🕸👍 Side note: I have always been interested in dark/gothic things. The only music I was exposed to as a kid was Synth pop/New Wave/New Romantic, which isn't goth, more like a cousin...TBH, I have only RECENTLY gotten into this genre of music and am still trying to find more bands. Thank you for the suggestions.
Haha yes life has gotten a bit busy so haven't had as much time to pump out videos as fast as I'd like to lol. And yeah, I get that some kids were into dark things when they were young, I was another one of them but like I said in the video, it doesn't mean you were a Goth, it just means you were darkly-inclined because goth is a very specific thing (music) and the music as you know is quite niche so unless your parents, relatives, or friends were listening to Goth music when you were a kid, it's just not accurate to say one has been Goth since childhood if they didn't listen to any actual Goth music at that time.
And oh cool, welcome to the Goth genre, I hope you find more bands to enjoy. If open, I have made some sorted out Goth playlists on my channels that you can browse to find some more music :)
I like blutangel also
Blutengel actually isn't a Goth band, they're Futurepop which is a sub-genre of Industrial music. :)
YE-ESH! 😄
You summed all my pet peeves into a single video.
I do agree "mainstream" goth and awful assimilations were a maelstorm for the community as a whole.
I had to drop a facebook group last week cause of these reasons.
I have a feeling I know which group it is haha
I only know 1 person who has considered themselves goth/gothic as a child because of her sibling. She listened to goth music since she was 4 and is named after a song because her sister had her parents listen to it while her mom was pregnant with her. She really hates how some people say they were goth since they were a child, but listened to mostly alternative/emo music. She can’t help but just list groups she loves such as The Cure, Fields of the Nephilim, Rosetta Stone, etc., and hates it when the person says, “Oh, I never heard of those groups.”
I love this video and I completely agree with everything. I, myself, didn’t know what goth truly was until I was 15 in 2013 due to me randomly finding goth RUclipsrs. It wasn’t until then that I dug myself into a grave of music and fell in love with the subculture. I was always alternative as a young teenager and even had a punk look to me that I still have to this day. In high school, I actually listened to emo and punk music, but didn’t venture into goth music until I was 15 when I was a sophomore. I was always fascinated with gothic/macabre things since I was younger, but would I call myself a goth then? No. I didn’t know what goth was and my child mind though goth was really just an elder emo person. Very idiotic of me. But I’m glad to know more about the subculture every day. Of course I don’t know everything about the subculture, but who does? I believe goth is just a love for the macabre and dark, while listening to the music that started this subculture.
So glad Ifound your channel again. I happened upon your videos Earlier this year but forgot to subscribe. DX
I actually didn't know some of these bands I liked were actually part of the goth music genre. Damn, I've been listening to the music longer than I realize. XD though despite depeche mode not being Goth, I still plan on keeping it in my Goth playlist. Simply because I think they have earned their place in the musical genre and many goths seem to enjoy the music and keep in their Goth music.
Hey, glad yu enjoyed the video and I mean... Fine sure keep Depeche Mode in your playlist if you want but just don't confuse them and call their music "Goth" because it isn't. It's Synth Pop music, always has been. It's like the Smiths. A lot of Goths enjoy their music but it doesn't make them a Goth band. Just keep this in mind lol
You left out The Damned in your montage of original goth bands.....
The Damned were more of a middle. They were doing mostly Punk Rock albums until they went for straight up Goth Rock in 1985 so they aren't really a godfather of Goth unlike the first 4 predecessors that started from 1979-1983. But yeah, I'll include that album in the next video, I wasn't trying to overload too much in this one.
Great video you say what many of us are thinking.
Oh right, I wasn't actually familiar with that until a few days ago and this was the only look I could muster when learning about it... ಠ_ಠ I agree, there is no hierarchy. All there is are those who have been in the scene a long time and those who are new and wanting to learn. That's it.
I like Bauhaus the Cure and Suixsie Sioux
Awesome though on "Suixsie", it's actually "Siouxsie" unless that was a typo lol
Kai Decadence Well, my native language is Spanish and I ALWAYS forget how to spell Siouxsie! 😅 Maybe it's the same for her idk
Oh okay, no problem haha I can understand the language barriers can be tricky to adjust to.
Kai Decadence yes I misspelled that thank you
This video is spot on, glad to see you back! Love the animation ♥️
Thanks a lot!
I look at it this way, you can't call yourself a metal head if you dont listen to metal. You dont have to dress like it, but it's the music that counts. Now, I can call myself a metal head and a goth and I dress somewhere in between. I'm darkly inclined and also an occultist. Also, you wouldn't call yourself an occultist if you didn't study or practice the occult arts. Hope I make sense.
No it makes sense. That's exactly what I was getting at in my video. Goth is music-based just like any other music-based subculture and if you don't listen to the music of the subculture, then you simply aren't it.
i see myself as Visual Kei, but often call myself "Goth", its easier to explain, and use "goth" as an umbrella term, since not many people actually understand various alternate sub genres.
I love this video. its very educational, and helpful for others who may not understand 🖤
I don't see why you just don't say you're "Visual Kei". If you want people to understand, you have to meet them a little halfway and not be afraid to teach a bit. You don't have to go into a long explanation, believe me I know some people just don't have time for that lol But in terms of Visual Kei, all you'd really need to say is "It's an alternative style from Japan" and if they ask for a band recommnendation, just give them one of your favorite Visual Kei bands and if the person is seriously interested in it, they'll look on their own time and voila, you shared your favorite style with someone, spreading knowledge lol.
I just don't think it's a good idea implying Visual Kei is Goth because it just confuses people who don't know but want to know. It's actually part of the reason why I did a "Japanese Goth/Darkwave/Deathrock" mixtape video and gave a little explanation. But that's just my 2 cents, I'm happy you enjoyed the video nonetheless. :)
I was a "Goth" when it all happened (I know, poor old me! 😪). People were really passionate about the music. Of course, there was the "dark" look but the main thing was the music.
For me, industrial bands are Skinny Puppy, Test dept, Einsturzende Neubauten (sorry about the spelling), etc not
nine inch nails or others you mentioned. They somehow were associated with Goth music. It was in fact quite diverse and a large spectrum of musical style. The 80's was a fabulous music melting pot and there was not a limiting frontier between genres in a way. I am not an 80's elitist but I don't know the more recent goths bands you mentioned.
Gavin Friday... I love his dark cabaret solo work, especially each man kills the things he love. I find this album very gothic in his unique style. Bauhaus, so fabulous. They are really the "ultimate" Gothic band. Experimental too in their guitar sound. And of course, bands like Sisters of Mercy who were really the stars of the dance floor lol 🤣 🤣🤣
Well you gotta keep in mind that Industrial music actually is a "house" genre in the sense that it gave birth to sub-genres within it, especially when NIN came around in the late 80s. I'm not sure about modern day NIN but old school NIN during the late 80s and in the 90s played Industrial Rock as opposed to straight up Industrial / Electro-Industrial (in the case of Skinny Puppy) that you're referring to with the first crop of bands. And again, it's understandable why some would think that early Industrial is goth when it really isn't. In fact, Industrial music predates goth by two years, Throbbing Gristle invented the Industrial sound in 1977, before Bauhaus kickstarted the goth sound in 1979. But yeah at the end of the day while the two music genres are not the same, they can go well together in a club mix for sure.
And if you're open and looking for new goth music, be sure to check out my "modern goth" playlists. :D
Oh yes Thobbing Gristle! So many bands. What I was trying to say is that the 80's were a fabulous melting pot of creative music. "Goth" had a large spectrum of styles and so many different kind of music. It was a bit like an explosion! This is how it happened for me. Bauhaus never saw their music as "Goth" despite the influence of their sound on many Goths bands. I love bands that were quite experimental and had nothing to do with "goth" that were somehow mixed in the movement. Movement is literally the term. Things were moving and mixing and it was great.
Anyway, it was interesting. I had no idea there were so many goths videos on RUclips, especially mainly about make up and clothes! Same with tarot decks. It is funny how things go!
I'll check the "newer" Goths bands. I am curious.
Oh my got, thank you for mentioning motionless in white!! I had to deal with a guy who produces deathcore albums explain to me that motionless was goth because of the band utilizing keys in their sound. I almost imploded. And I didn't even bother trying to explain.
I was just so disturbed and disgusted by how much misinformation is out there. And dont get me started on all the bands/artists that advertise themselves as goth when they clearly just got themselves a marilyn manson starter kit.
yeah I figured I'd shed some light on these bands that often get miscatergorized as "Goth" when they aren't and I go into further detail in my "What is Goth" video lol.
An honest opinion and showcase of facts regarding the goth subculture is always favoured over simply being vague about topics. Although there are topics mentioned several times before in defence of the subculture (via whatever format), spreading the word is better than leaving it to a few people or mentions/posts on it, like some frequent reminder to the younger culture over time... If more can understand where it comes from and how it's defined, then it should decrease, or at the least counter, the misconceptions that can be easily discovered or gathered.
And having personal annoyances within the subculture or anything relative to which is not a bad thing, and more than likely not uncommon. There'll always be those issues and close-minded people, but it's not everyone and obviously there are many who'd agree with your opinions or views on the matter. Nothing can be perfect anyway...
True. I generally talk about these things because while I do see people talking about this on websites, I never see people talking about this on RUclips, it's always mostly hauls and makeup videos so that's why I do videos like this.
@@KaiDecadence Such matters may still be mentioned on here by some specific goth RUclipsrs, but perhaps by a very minimal amount, especially in comparison to the more popular topics of beauty/fashion (which, sure, is interesting or fun to see, but it's become excessive and feels like just about the only things "goth" is viewed as by many...) The subculture might offer an easier, better understanding to non-goths or emerging baby bats if the 'popular' topics on RUclips (or anywhere else online) encompass more of the music, involvement and such.
Sure but I think the main reason why I'm so tired of the haul and makeup videos is because I've been on RUclips since 2009 watching "Goth" topic videos and thinking back, while a lot of the people were just darkly inclined as not many people talked about the music and a lot of them did say you can be goth and not like goth music (which I disagree with), there were still being some semblance of engaging topics to talk about. But then around 2014-2015, there was a shift where most people started talking about hauls and makeup and while it was fine at first, it started to wear thin very quickly.
Ah. Yes, repetition can become bothersome. And certainly, that misconception of being goth while not listening to nor appreciating goth music noticeably became a hot topic (probably were to occur at some point, anyway)...
Yeah and the misconception was huge back then lol Like around 2009-2014, most "goth" youtubers never mentioned Goth music, just fashion, makeup and how to deal with bullies/acceptance. A lot of them dropped off around 2014 and then the second breed came where it got a little better as while there still weren't a lot of people talking about the music, there were some which was better than the none from the years prior.
One thing you forgot to mention is idiots who love to confuse goth and emo as if they're the same damn thing -_- And I'm pretty darkly inclined myself but since I have yet to listen to real goth music, I can't call myself goth :( I can see where you're coming from though. And this is coming from someone who adores bands like Evanescence, Within Temptation, Marilyn Manson, etc.
Yeah I was actually debating if I should include the Goth vs Emo thing but I didn't want to make the video any longer and I plan n doing a separate video talking about that and finally correcting people on it. But to be honest, I don't see as many people doing it now like I did a few years ago so I'd like to think some people are getting it lol
And yeah I like Evanescence and all those other darker styled bands but I just get annoyed when people think that music is Goth and then when you show them what real Goth music is, they can't accept it because it doesn't sound anything like they were imagining it to lol
This might be an unpopular opinion, but for me in order to like goth music you need to have a darkly inclined mindset that gives you the possibility to enjoy the themes and the aesthetics of any goth band, otherwise you would get pretty bored of it. Personally I like to identify myself as a goth because of how important the genre is to me and my identity, but I also like to consider myself a metalhead because that's the music I mostly listen to, I've been listening to post-punk since my childhood because my mom was wery much into the scene, as well as very early goth like siouxie and the banshees and the cure, but I've always been a darkly inclined kid in my life due to the shows I used to watch, the early 2000s were a very freaky/romantic decade (if you exclude the y2k trend) so that definitely shaped me into the person that I am today, and I couldn't be anymore proud of it. So in conclusion, yes you can be darkly inclined and not enjoy goth music (aka being a goth ), but it doesn't feel right when it's the other way around, idk..
Well it's a given that a lot of people who enjoy goth music will also be darkly-inclined so it goes without saying. What I was trying to convey there was that just because one is darkly-inclined doesn't automatically mean that they are goth as the latter would mean that they also are listening to goth music.
@@KaiDecadence I know, and I totally agree with you, thank you for responding, I was afraid that so many people would start insulting me for what I said, people's reactions are very unpredictable😅
@@trippy_dragon8726 Ah alright, no problem lol
Black is life, Black is love ❤😍Thanks for this video man I love this music 😍❤ Cyber techno goth is what I make.
I’m a 16 y/o trad goth my mom taught me my favorite band is the cure so many good memories and my first concert too!!!
black is my favorite color and darkness
Okay?
i guess its more of a facebook group peeve, but i always hate those horrendous memes bashing 'basic' girls and slapping morticia addams on everything
Eugh same. I forgot about those obnoxious memes. Furthermore they aren't proving dick because Morticia Addams is not a Goth figure anyway. I love Morticia but it's just true. At the most, she's a Gothic figure but Gothic =/= Goth.
@@KaiDecadence exactly!! it makes absolutely no sense to me at all to bring someone else down to pull yourself up, I love her too but you're definitely right on that front
@@clili00 Yep. Thankfully I think that trend kinda died. At least I think so anyway as I haven't seen it being posted but then again, I'm not very active on groups as I used to be lol.
@@KaiDecadence I left most of the ones I was in for this exact reason, that was about a year ago now so I'd assume it's dead now finally
@@clili00 Hopefully haha. But most Goth groups to be frank are "eh". Only a small handful are actually good in the sense of being focused in my opinion.
My kids were exposed to goth through me. Granted they were also exposed to other types of music, because I love many types of music.
Fair enough lol
If you grew up in the 80s in the UK you saw The Cure, Siouxsie, Sisters of Mercy, The Mission and All About Eve on Top of the Pops so it is much more likely to be a true statement when someone of that era says ‘I became goth at 12’. Which was exactly when I became goth :) I danced to Sisters of Mercy at a church disco at 13 and went to my first Cure gig at that age too! But yes, you probably have a point for the most part.
I should've specified a bit more. I know that some Goth bands were popular in the 80s and got to play on Top of the Pops but notice how as the years went on, you stopped seeing Goth bands play in mainstream places and then when the 90s came, they seem to have up and stopped (hence why I said that the genre went back underground). And again, I don't deny that some people can genuinely get into Goth when they're young given they have the right sources (in your case, being in the 80s and being able to see a few Goth bands play live on TV). But my comment was more along the lines of those people who say "I've been Goth since I was like 8. I was always into vampires, bats, cemeteries, etc." and that stuff does not make you Goth, it just makes you dark / darkly-inclined. That's more or less where I was getting at haha.
I think that’s fair :)
I still like Evanescence, HIM, and My Chemical Romance even though they aren't Goth. I don't really get into that many bands if they're not Gothic or Goth. I'm more of a Gothic rock and Darkwave person 🖤
it's fine to like those bands, I like them as well. And cool
I don't know, I always refrain from revealing my favorite goth bands for fear of people calling me a "fake goth" when I say: I don't really like goth music (not recent goth music at least) but I did start out listening to a lot of post-punk (from bands like The Smiths, Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Cure, Joy Division, and Bauhaus) and the most annoying thing is there seems to be a split between goths where a lot of goths would consider those bands as goth but then there's this whole other side that considers them as non-goth. And on top of that, for the people that actually do accept my bands as "goth enough," I'll mention that I love post-punk music but I mostly listen to post-punk _revival_ and then suddenly I'm completely cast out as a goth and sometimes even attacked for it.
Okay that's a lot to take in but I'll break it down. With the exception of The Smiths as they aren't Goth and while they dabbled with Post-Punk, they were at their core an Alternative Rock band so tying them into Goth is REALLY inaccurate and should be avoided. But Bauhaus. They are Goth, they're the band that actually started the genre. Joy Division are Post-Punk BUT they're considered Goth as well because their sound was then taken and slightly expanded upon by Bauhaus and played straight which was what birthed the Goth Rock genre. Siouxsie and the Banshees were more or less like The Cure where while they were post-punk, they did release a Goth album taking influence from the groundwork laid by Bauhaus. It's like I said in the video that even though Siouxsie and Robert Smith eventually moved onto non-Goth music, it doesn't erase their legacy and impact of their Goth albums.
Now the reason why Post-Punk Revival is not considered Goth is because it doesn't use any of the traits found in Goth rock and is played straight as Post-Punk. So take for example what I said about the Smiths earlier. They dabbled with Post-Punk but the concentrated form of it. Notice how The Smiths didn't sound dark like Joy Division or Siouxsie and the Banshees. That's where I'm getting at. That is what separates it from Goth. It's a bit hard to explain but I plan on doing tackling this in a future video. So I mean, you can like Post-Punk revival music, I like some of it myself but to consider it Goth music would be false so yeah, the people who point that out are in the right.
So I mean, what you said goes down to my last point. So long as you name drop actual Goth bands, people won't or shouldn't heckle you. If you've run into people who seriously say that Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Cure, or Joy Division (to a lesser extent) as "not Goth", they are being ignorant and don't know their history. The Smiths, sure I can see why they would object but the others? No.
My main pet peeve as a goth is when people ask “so you’re a satanist, right?” 1- I’m a very religious Christian
2- even most goths who aren’t Christian or Catholic aren’t satanist either. It’s a subculture . Anyone can be goth.
Goth isn't a lifestyle. Unless you mean in the sense that you're getting in a van and traveling place to place to check out Goth bands playing concerts lol Otherwise no it really is not a lifestyle. It's a music-based subculture that revolves around Goth music. That all said, yeah the "satanist" thing gets old but I haven't gotten it myself for a good few years now lol.
@@KaiDecadence sorry! I corrected my self. I’m not too good at words😅
@@cborgcyborg1150 no problem lol
Your points about the gothic genre of music and what is considered Goth is spot on. While I like other genres of music and what I deem to be Gothic Metal like King Diamond and some Cradle of Filth, I certainly wouldn't consider them to be Gothic Rock proper, because I actually like Goth music and was most influenced by the genre when I initially began paying attention to music in my adolescence back in the 80's. Fields of the Nephilim is probably my favorite band of all as well as The Cure's gothic albums that you very aptly displayed and several others (Christian Death, Faith and the Muse etc). At this juncture in my life, I have various styles of clothing that I like (Even combinations of western looks), but I enjoy my dark oriented clothing and try to go all out when I do dress goth. I'm a multi-faceted person, but in my heart and soul, I absolutely consider myself a Goth. It's the subculture that I'm most drawn to and the lifestyle and mindset that has most influenced me.
Couldn't agree more!
Glad you enjoyed :D
I can definitely say that when I was around 8 I was gothic and love the darker things and had a darker style now that I’m 16 I still like the darker things but now I have more of a masculine style
I once went through a phase during my teenage years. I went around acting like I was a preppie. Thankfully, that was short lived, and I went back to creepy.
I'm gonna go ahead and take that whole I've been goth forever thing and run with it. Yeah, I liked Cyndi Lauper and Depeche Mode and still do; but, my favorite music was Siouxie, Sisters of Mercy, and the Cure. And damn near anything else that's considered Goth that I could sneak past my parents.
I'm also a lifelong darkly inclined individual. I never really considered myself Goth until recently when I had the epiphany that my life revolved around the MUSIC. The cool clothes, makeup, and year round Halloween decorations are aesthetic icing on the cake. But guess what- I also enjoy industrial, hard core gutter rap, old school country and Western, world, and classical. I just don't identify with those music cultures, or go to the shows, or dress in that manner, except maybe industrial. So I don't claim to be "country" or whatever.
Understanding that my taste in music, movies, literature, fashion, etc., combined kind of classified me as Goth, actually resonated with me and helped me be more secure in my identity. And as someone with autism, specifically female ASD, finding my individual identity has been a struggle. (§ high functioning autistic females are copycats, so we can easily become a messed up identity crisis by simply trying to imitate to fit in.) The goth label helped me clarify my identity according to the things I love. The deciding factor- music. It is inextricably linked to the term.
I think people in the rap & hip hop community would be pissed at me for using their aesthetic without being an actual supporter of the community and culture. Or, if I wear cowboy boots and a cowboy hat, but never listen to country. I wish people would replace the term Goth with THEIR music culture term. It would make more sense to them.
Great video and liking the Silent Hill music in the beginning of the video
I agree with this 100%
Given that I'm more of a 90's industrialist despite my favorite band of all time is the cure my biggest piss off is that we got lumped in and labeled "Goth" despite the fact we completely formed our own identity and sound
My genre has contributed more to what people perceive as "Goth" then actual Goths did and we're not Goth at all! and we definitely pull more people with our sound that's why there's so many people falsely identifying as Goth like no offense but if you think it pisses you off try being one of us! The word Goth takes all the credit for everything we contributed... we get told we're not goth
And everything the mainstream says is goth is almost completely 90's industrial
This problem definitely needs to be addressed
Oh believe me, I will be getting to Goth vs Industrial and what the differences are between the two because you're right, people get it confused WAY too often and it's time someone set the record straight. RUclipsr Amy Nekrotique is kinda addressing this what with her "Industrial Music 101" series where she goes a bit in depth about the many sub-genres of Industrial music while giving sound clip examples. But I'll definitely get to this topic soon. :)
@@KaiDecadence I think the biggest issue is our "look"
this is why we melted into one group because visually we basically are... when people see us on the street they don't give a Fuck what we listen too all they see is our outfit... and of course Hollywood contributed too this heavily also! I have no idea if we actually have our own name or not cuz in the 90's we were just goths
You see though, when you put a rivethead or industrialist next to a goth, I genuinely do see the difference. To be bluntly honest, the stereotypical "look" that people think is Goth (that isn't 80s trad) doesn't scream Goth to me, it makes me think either Industrial fan or metalhead. Take for example alternative model Dani Divine. She's been touted as a "Goth model" but when I look at her, she doesn't scream "Goth" looking to me, she just looks like Metal chick. Never mind the fact she doesn't even listen to Goth music so... Yeah.
And I'm convinced that in the 90s, this is where the misappropriation came from. Like I said in the video, Goth went back to the underground when the 80s ended and Industrial was the next big craze thanks to Nine Inch Nails bringing the Industrial sound to the mainstream but unfortunately Industrial music got labeled "goth" or "The new goth" because actual Goth music was underground and it was never radio friendly. And because of this, a lot of kids who grew up listening to these Industrial bands honestly believed they were "Goth" for it when in actuality, they were just rivetheads/industrialists, not goths.
I see the difference also but I remember watching my sister getting ready to go out when I was young once I was a teen my look was WELL different
That 90's "look" has definitely hijacked the term Goth
This vid was a great start to addressing this issue I hope more youtubers pick this topic up
Its the only thing we can really do about this issue at this point
At nearly 40 I still don't know anything
Yeah but the sad thing about that is that there were a lot of awesome Goth bands that came out during the 90s but they didn't get the attention they deserved since like I mentioned, Goth was back in the underground at this time and the only way you could've found them was from word of mouth or if you lived in a place that had a genuine Goth club or hangout that didn't turn into an Industrial club which I hear a lot of them did.
And yeah you're right, talking and addressing is the best way to handle this. But nonetheless, glad yu enjoyed the video. :)
Awesome video! My friend asked me if Silent Hill could possibly be considered Goth, I initially said no. However, since the music has an undefined genre per se, I honestly don't know. 😁
Silent Hill Goth? Like what? The Game itself or the music? Because the answer is "No" to both to be honest. Goth is a music-based genre and a word to describe the fans who listen to that music genre. And the music in the series is a mixture of Alternative Rock, Industrial, and Ambience. Akira Yamaoka is like the master of calm unsettling atmospheric music but his music is not Goth and he isn't influenced by the Goth rock genre neither.
@@KaiDecadence Agreed. I explained to him that although there are melancholic themes associated with the music, I personally wouldn't consider it Goth. He's learning, Kai😂 Thank you for the feedback!
Oh, and that word "Gothy" literally just made my skin crawl. It sounds so condescending and disrespectful.
@@DeepPoeticSociety Yeah same lol
I know there are many people who call themselves goth who would be upset to hear that they're not "real" goths merely because of the music style they listen to.
The thing is we need to look at what definitions we're talking about here.
Yes the word goth means a very particular style of music which is associated with a specific dark fashion, but not necessarily the fashion itself.
However it also means a mindset.
Allow me to explain if the reader will bare it.
There is goth music and then there are goths.
There are goths who listen to original classical goth music (like me) and there are goths who listen to only industrial stuff. (I also like industrial and I like alot of various metal styles as well).
Realize that fashions often take on the name of the music they originated from.
As in the goth fashion, the punk fashion.
Look at punk, punk has moved past and incorporated more music than the classic styles from where punk originated, but there is a diverse community and common core attitude found in all punk identities.
The same is with goth.
Yea there are posers who call themselves goth who are not, but generally people who call themselves goth share the same state of mind and core attitude of those that listen to classical goth.
I understand that within the goth subculture there is an even smaller group that strictly defines true goth as only that which listens to a particular brand of music from which the name originally came.
But what does goth means for the entire subculture who holds that title?
To the main stream crowd goth is sadly miss-understood and very broad. Many things are called goth that are not. Black metal, emo, satanits and God forbid goth rap. But I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about the industrial and cyber goths, or heck even people who may not like the classic & industrial music genre at all, but live off dark orchestra music.
The question we need to ask is why does goth exist in the first place? Yes it was a music brand, but why was that music written? Why did it take on that style with it's deep suppressed vocals? What was being expressed that wasn't expressed in punk or any other alternative sence? Why does all goth genres come back to romanticizing death, tragedy, and the morbid?
The music that started goth was an attitude, an attitude that surely people had long before the music or name for it existed, but it was there none the less, we know this because of books and poems that mirror that attitude.
Classic goth music was where this mindset was first express in song. Music gave this dark mindset a voice and it didn't end with post punk, dark wave, etc...
The industrial scene evolved from this and is influenced by the same attitudes that brought "true goth".
And I hate using the word "true goth", because what it really is is classic goth.
Goth is about the attitude expressed in the music. The sound the music brings is a reflection of that attitude.
It would be hard to imaging calling a post punk band goth if is was all about sunshine and rainbows and the band dressed like colorful hippies.
It would be goth post punk style music, but it wouldn't have the goth attitude, it wouldn't feel goth nor have a true goth spirit. It wouldn't in essence be goth.
Goth needs to be a little more than just the music, it's an attitude indeed.
Goth is a broad subculture, but there are criteria to be met to be goth. Which is why there is a core difference between being someone who has a merely dark inclined mindset and someone who is goth in mindset.
Emo, metal, dark punk, and black metal while all have a dark inclined mindset cannot be considered goth because they haven't met that criteria of required attitude.
Goth isnt about suicide, or a woah is me mindset, nor is it about anarchy, chaos, violence horror, or celebrating evil for that matter. It's more intellectual than it's counterpart subcultures.
It's attitude is about recognizing tragedy, but exploring and seeing a perspective of beauty in what others regard as repulsive and dwelling in and expressing that darkness, which is why black is kind of a requirement.
Goth is romantic at its core, it goes beyond the face value and gets into the essence of these things and explores their philosophy and meaning.
This is expressed in certain styles and darker sounds of music that will allow that perspective to be conveyed.
Industrial goth does that well.
So when people say "true goth" what I believe they really mean is classical goth.
Just my opinion.
Okay there is a lot to go over with this and I'll break it up bit by bit.
To start thigns off though, Goth was never a mindset. That is just some really bad saying that came about in the 90s when media outlets were focusing on the look and not even bothering to talk about the music. That's why in so many 90s documentaries, you see them talking about the look and "dark mindset" when those things were never the forefront of Goth. Goth has ALWAYS been about the music even after the 80s, it's just that the media misconstrued it and that's why you got a generation of kids falsely believe the trite they were pushing.
Industrial Music,. Industrial music has always been it's own thing. It didn't come from Punk music and it didn't come from Goth neither, it came from Electronic music. And really, it's just another dark music-based subculture just like Goth. Fans of Industrial music are called Industrialists & Rivetheads. And fun fact, Industrial music started 2 years before Goth did. The only thing that Goth and Industrial share is that they're sometimes played together in clubs and it's only to maximize club profit by catering to two different music-based subcultures. It's pretty much like music festivals like Lollapalooza where its an event that caters to both Alternative Rockers, Punks, Metalheads, and Rap/Hip-Hop fans. It's really no different here.
Punk Music. Um what? You do understand that the reason why Punk has other subgenres of music is because these subgenres use Punk sound characteristics that make them a true sub-genre. Art Punk, Skate Punk, Riot Grrl, Horror Punk, Hardcore Punk, Post-Hardcore, Pop Punk, etc. These all have the core sound foundation found in Punk but apply different things alongside the foundation that make it sound a bit different yet still a part of the Punk umbrella. Goth is literally the same thing, there is no such thing as "Classical Goth Music",. it's just Goth, sometimes broken down into waves (First wave = 80s, Second Wave = 90s, Third Wave = 00s).
Goth also has actual subgenres, I don't know if you missed it in the video but I mentioned these subgenres. Darkwave, Deathrock, Coldwave, & Ethereal Wave. I didn't say that Post-Punk is a Goth genre because it isn't but Post-Punk is the origin of Goth music, Goth music took the foundation found in Post-Punk and expanded upon it more and that was how the Goth genre was born. That's why I made the distinction on why it's false to say all Siouxsie and The Banshees and The Cure's albums were Goth because they weren't.
Furthermore why does there need to be a reason for why Goth music was written? You don't see this with genres of music. You don't see this with Metal so why would it be any for Goth? It's ridiculous. There doesn't need to be a reason ,all that matters is that Goth music came into existence by tweaking bits of Post-Punk and in turn created a new sound, that;s what a music genre is., it doesn't need a reason to exist other than offering different sounds. There is no Goth mindset that fuels it because if it were really about being dark and somber, any musician that does a sorrowful song would be Goth. Johnny Cash would be a Goth musician as he had a lot of sorrowful songs. But he isn't because his sound is not Goth, he's a Country musician who happens to have some sorrowful songs. Goth. Has. A. Sound. A distinct sound that makes it what it is. It is not a lyrical style. And fun fact, not all Goth songs romanticize death and tragedy. There are plenty of Goth songs that touch up on other subject matter.
You're confusing Gothic lyrical content with Goth and any genre of music can sing about Gothic lyrical content. Kate Bush's "Wuthering Heights" for example, that is Gothic lyrical content. Gothic does not equal Goth. This is why Gothic Metal is not a subgenre of Goth because it uses no elements of Goth music, it's just takes inspiration form Metal but throws in classical instruments and the lyrical content is Gothic but not Goth. And this goes for the other darker styles of Metal (Doom Metal, Black Metal, & Symphonic Metal). A lot of the songs found in these genres can be dark, haunting, romantic, or tragic yet these aren't considered Goth genres because of the overall SOUND. Read it SOUND. Where is the reverbed guitar? Where is the drum-machine or mellow-tone drum style? Where is the Thumping Bass guitar? Where is the 4/4 rhythmic playing with no use of a heavy back beat?
Metalheads listen to Metal Music. Industrialists/Rivetheads listen to Industrial Music. Punks listen to Punk music. Emos listen to Post-Hardcore music. And Goths Listen to Goth music. That's just how it is and it's how it's always been. If you're going to be saying that Goth is a mindset, you may as well say that for other genres like Metal.
@@KaiDecadence
Thank you for breaking it down for me. I understand my misconception now. I was confusing the terms goth and gothic.
As the word goth is in gothic I think this is where most people get confused as they think goth and gothic are interchangeable words.
And due to this confusion I mistakenly thought you were saying gothic is only a music genre.
What I was trying to say is gothic is a mindset and I confused word goth with gothic.
Understand that when people like me say "goth" what's going on in our head is we think that goth is just a slang shortening of the word gothic. And perhaps its that too, but now I know that it's also a distinct music genre that gets confused with the abbreviation of the word gothic.
The weird thing is I actually like goth music, alot of my ipod is goth, but I never knew it was called goth until recently. I always thought goth was typical "gothic" stuff.
See the confusion?
But the goth music is not the reason why I dress in black. I do that because I'm appealed by gothic art and style.
Until now I always though goth was just an abbreviation of the word gothic. So when someone said I'm goth, they really meant gothic, but they were just shortening the word to its misleading slang term.
I think when people say something is goth, what is really happening is they're abbreviating the word gothic. So there may be goth the abbreviated form of the word gothic and goth the music genre.
I dont think anyone is purposely trying to steal the goth music genre and claim it as their own.
I did read up on the 90's overlapping of goth and industrial music styles leading to this confusion and a culture of "industrial goth".
It may also be that the abbreviation goth and the goth music genre, because they share the same word often get mingled and confused.
So as I understand it and according to the Webster's dictionary there are three meanings to the word 'goth':
-Goths, the East Germanic people.
-Goth a distinct music genre.
-Gothic is an attitude & mindset and the word gothic has a colloquial abbreviated form (goth) not to be confused with goth the music genre.
So questions; are goths (music) necessarily gothic? Does the music genre named goth even derive from the word gothic or are these terms just a happy confused coincidence?
Is someone goth just because goth music is one of their favorite genres?
I'm only recently discovering what all these terms actually mean and where they belong and you've helped out with that. Thx
@@FrogknightAk47 Gothic isn't a mindset either though. It's a style or architecture, furniture & decor, art, literature, and film.
The pentagram and upside down cross have nothing to do with satan. Just so you know
I never said they did. I'm assuming you're talking about the quick little slide where I had a bunch of religious symbols together. Yeah I wasn't implying they were the same, just that they were all beliefs. I'm well aware the Pentagram is a wiccan symbol and the upside down cross is the cross of St. Peter, the Catholic faith.
@@KaiDecadence I was actually trying to say alot of people dont realize what they do mean.
@@kellycollins4862 Ah okay. Yeah that is true.
Unapologetic and and I love it
Someone has to be truthful to be honest~
Agree on the last part. People tend to throw around the word elitist & gatekeeper too much these days. Happens in my subculture as well 😒
Yep it's ridiculous really.
I love Goth and industrial!
I laughed so many timez at some of the faces your cartoon character self makes.
I like Goth music and I am not goth
Fair enough
THANK-YOU! A-MEN!
Dito
But doesn't that make you goth because being a fan of the music is the most important part of identifying as goth? I don't actually care just curious lol
im always in between the goth music and metal 😅 i adore the sound of London after midnight, suspiria, specimen and alien sex fiend etc, but also adore the sound of cradle of filth, witching hour and The awakenig etc. i could listen to all of it every day so i never know what i like more (both probably?). some days i listen to goth music more and other days other shit more, depends on the mood, really.
i also dont know how to sort Witching hour (1991) or The awakening (1995), because of the late formation of the bands. Have you any idea? thank you
That's all cool and all though I hope you're not categorizing Cradle of Filth as a goth band like the other bands you listed 😅
But yeah going with the bands you selected, sounds like you are really into the second wave of goth music which I can totally understand.
I'm not sure what you mean by "sorting" Witching Hour and The Awakening though, mind explaining what you mean?
@@KaiDecadence hahaha im totally aware that Cradle of filth is metal 🤣 for The awakening im not sure if its fall more into metal than goth genre. newer songs sounds more metal influenced to me. i think witching hour (UK) is goth, but i dont know in what subgenre of goth it really belongs by sound. i hope now my dilemma is less confusing 😉 you're right i like the sound of 90 goth music more than 80. not that Sisters of mercy, Banshees or Bauhaus in not good, but i dont listen to them as often as 90 bands
Re Victorian era, Mourning actually became fashionable, (as did seances and the occult) because of Queen Victoria's deep mourning for Bertie. It wasn't just about 'respect for the dead' the Victorians were obsessed. Also, the architecture of the time was largley neo gothic. While these things don't constitute 'goth', they certainly influenced the way the darkly inclined (now, I dunno if that included Goths, bc thats just music, right?) dress and express themselves.
That's actually a huge misconception. They weren't obsessed with the occult. They were just into whatever the Queen was into because she was the queen and what society dictated even if the people didn't really care for it. Being ostracized was something you didn't want to be back in those times. Reputations were a huge thing back then and If you dared to step out of line of what was etiquette and tradition, you could destroy your entire future.
And another thing is that a lot of the rich people wore black only because the Queen wore black. The queen was seen as high royalty and something to aspire to. And even then, it was only popular for mourning, not everyday wear. It was a transitional period where you wore black after the person died and you gradually wore brighter colors when you were going through the grieving period. Also to note, wearing black for mourning wasn't started by Queen Victoria, it was started by the Romans. Queen Victorian only popularized the concept in her time but again, she only ever wore it for Mourning, not every day wear. The other thing is that Queen Victoria spent the rest of her days in morning hence why she continued wearing black to her death after her husband passed. This was also common for some other widows but it was also done to avoid a second marriage. Marriage during mourning was not socially acceptable.
"Obsessed with death". Actually no, they weren't obsessed with Death but rather, they were fearful of being buried in unmarked graves, having their graves robbed or possible body snatching, Another unfortunate fact is that
the poor would save money for funeral expenses and basically starve their children to death because death rates were so high in low income houses that they were afraid of their children being buried in unmarked graves.
And finally on the architecture. Again no. Not all of it was "Gothic". Most of the architect was actually Italianate Renaissance revival and Greek Revival. True Gothic architect was mostly only reserved for the extremely wealthy and flamboyant. And it was not about being into the dark and macabre, it was about showing off your wealth, flamboyance, and how rich you were to the commoners. and superstitious beliefs. Like for example, it was considered bad luck to keep your mourning wear after your mourning transition was over and stuff like that. It wasn't about obsession with death.
If you're curious to read up on this, here on some links. But sorry for the length of the reply.
www.victoriana.com/VictorianPeriod/mourning.htm
victorianmonsters.wordpress.com/victorian-funerary-practices/
www.tchevalier.com/fallingangels/bckgrnd/mourning/
i guess i was darkly inclined since my mid to late teens
Into dark and macabre type stuff??
yep
slowly but surely, the goth subculture appealed to me
Well hey, we find Goth music at our own pace so there's no rush lol.
it started in this order for me: Movies, Fashion, music, art and architecture, literature
Well just so long as you understand the difference between Goth and Gothic / Darkly-Inclined, it's all good.
Gatekeeping is a complex topic but I feel you. There's a lot of confusion around the term goth, and around the term emo too (which obviously has nothing to do with goth, but is misused and the two terms are commonly, but incorrectly, used interchangeably). I find it difficult to discuss the kind of music I like to people outside of music or subculture oriented spaces without being hyper specific and naming bands.
Do you like other post-punk or just goth btw?
Edit: Also very curious about your opinion on The Weeknd using a Siousie and The Banshees sample. If you don't know what I mean, listen to the song House of Balloons.
Yeah I'm very aware that emo has been just as misappropriated as goth has been, specially when you learn that popular bands like MCR, Paramore, and Fall Out Boy don't make emo music but many people believe they do.
And it's the same deal for me when I talk music with people outside of the scene as well as many of the bands that I like are obscure by mainstream standards so I don't really get many moments of being able to connect with music offline lol.
And yes I do like some post-punk but overall I do lean more towards goth.
And to answer your question on The Weekend sample, I gave it a listen and I don't think it sounds good. Imo it sounds tonally incoherent.
Thank goodness we have a thing called "Schwarze Szene" (Black Subculture), where everything with that darkly inclined, gothic or goth aesthetic and sound* is featured, because it's not mainstream or metal or else, it's closer to goth but still not goth. I am both because I love many of the other dark genres besides the Goth Genres.
*Genres like Symphonic Metal, real Industrial, Industrial Metal (Bands like Marilyn Manson, Nine Inch Nails, The Shanklin Freakshow, Rob Zombie... are more metal then real Industrial), Neue Deutsche Härte/NDH (German pendant to Industrial Metal, Rammstein, Oomph!...), dark/mysterious medieval music, EBM, Dark Synthpop (a Genre that is also enjoyed by many trad goths), Daek Cabaret, Dark Circus, dark Alternative... (but not Emo).
You can like other music and still be Goth if you listen to actual Goth music.
By the way...I love She Past Away💀☠️👩🏿🎤💅
Hi Kai,
Just wanted to thank you so much for taking the time and effort to share your insight, feedback, and advice with us in your videos!
I don't often post much, but wanted to express how grateful I am to RUclipsrs like you for helping to understand the differences between the genres (and sub genres). I feel that through time in watching you and other RUclipsrs, I've been able to discover bands I would have never found on my own, and ultimately, become more confident in finding out more about myself.
I hope that you will continue uploading videos, because your opinions and feedback are really well-organized, thoughtful, and researched.
All best!
-Source
You're very welcome and thanks, that's pretty much the gist of these videos I do where I want to help people interested in experiencing the authenticity of what the genre is and not what the media has misconstrued for about a decade lol.
I see we have basically the same pet peeves.
Haha interesting
Me, three. 🦇🦇🦇
The French immersion class in my grade last year and I happen to had some friends in there. They were making a movie and one of the characters happen to be dark and spooky, everyone had said they were "the class goth" of the movie, I had to explain that he wasn't
I feel so educated!! Thank you so much
You're welcome!
I prefer to think of my clothing style as "alternative", as I take inspiration from everything from goth to lolita to emo. I also have a wide variety of music that I like.
That's fine and all. My main points were not about how you dress though lol It really was just getting down to the heart of the matter which is a simple, if you listen to Goth music, actual Goth music, you're still a Goth no matter what you dress like. You can like a variety of music but if Goth (be it Goth rock, Darkwave, Coldwave, Deathrock, or Ethereal Wave) isn't a part of that variety, then calling yourself Goth would be pretty redundant. That's really all I was getting at in the video, well towards the end anyway lol.
I find myself to be different from Goth, and I don't even feel bad about it. I feel the dark stuff in me, yes but also other things of out of this world. I'm more of a dark glamour headed freak. I have more than just dark colourful things in my life...also flourish in the bright, colourful things to...I am darkly and brightly inclined.
So in other words, not a goth but darkly inclined unless y oy like band's like Bauhaus, sisters of mercy, she past away, Suspiria, love like blood, Lebanon Hanover, etc no?
I still love them to. I just don't like slapping labelz on me. I was once a Goth, but realized I wanted more than just that.
I am everything I love. I love makeup and nail polish and wild imaginative clothing.
@@louisvalentino43 Right.
I wish that some people learn how to differentiate metal from actual goth music(TT)
I don't see this problem going away anytime soon unfortunately lol But the best one can do is just try to explain and hope it helps.
What's a pet peeve? Can I adopt one? What do they eat? Do I need to walk them 3 times a day?
In one of the comment sections of a goth video, someone falsely spammed this, "Skulls represent dead bones because goths adore death. Most goths worship the devil and take tattoos and piercings. The demonic star represents the demon they worship who'll just ignorantly neglect and have them live in hell with him. It's like how Christians wear crosses for Jesus. Most of these goth individuals also practice witchcraft. So I understand why the mother shields her kids' eyes from this. If you see a sociopath doing bad things and acting in non-formal ways of course you wouldn't want your child to look up to that.
So the girl shouldn't get angry for being judged when she dresses like that. It isn't Christianity at all and it's more than a fashion choice but teenagers these days are so ignorant and stupid not listening to us and seeing what shit they're getting themselves into."
Which is VERY wrong. Goth is a music culture, it isn't a Satanic group, as you said. Also, we do NOT hang out somewhere, practicing witchcraft, planning to take over the world. And the goth person in the video was literally going to the store (but she also said it's a fashion style, but she said she was wrong in one of the videos reacting to her and that it is a music culture)
But yeah, none of what he said was true at all
That more than likely was just troll spamming. If not, it's the most uneducated and ill-informed person I've ever heard lol.
goth is cool
I also like Bella Morte too
They're a pretty neat band, I agree heh
THANK YOU FOR THIS.
Glad you enjoyed :)
I also think the colour you should go for when you decide on makeup iz dark red.
Love the video. Same on the bands. I learned about goth music from bothers ex. When I got older fell in love with the sound. Funny my bother a metal head. When I hear people say disturbed or system of a down. I face pome every time. I heard someone say slipknot before also. I give up....
Eugh, I will never understand how people think metal bands are Goth and it perplexes me even more when people try to defend that falseness lol
Nice work with the video.
Thanks. :)
I never considered myself goth as a child but I can say I was in my single digits listening to ACTUAL Goth music
In the late 60s Goth/Gothic was used to describe some songs by the Doors, and Velvet Underground. :D
They didn't use "Goth" to describe them, they used the term "Gothic" and just to describe their tone. Goth and Gothic are not the same thing. Goth is an actual sound. Refer to this video to hear what the sound actually is
( ruclips.net/video/4GsskYEDgrE/видео.html )
@@KaiDecadence I knew it was either or, that they used, but I couldn't remember which, so that's why I used the slash. :D
A number of people think that Goths are either pagan or Satanists. Just because they wear black, dyed their hair black (or their is naturally black) and/or listen to music that's goth(ic) or darkly similar. I had a feeling that Evanescence wasn't a Goth band just because of their first album screams goth. I not exactly sure if The Rasmus is a goth band because of their later work (2004- onwards). Some of their music videos (and one of their songs) have that gothic feel to it.
Yeah the whole Pagan and Satanism thing is true in that people think Goths are these things but they're not, Goth is not a religion, it's purely just a music-based subculture. And speaking of which, Evanescence were never Goth and the only reason people thought they were was because of Amy's look but even her look, it doesn't look "Goth" at all, more so just dark. But there's a bit more confusion I'm seeing in your comment with the conflation of Goth & Gothic and for that, if you have the time I highly suggest checking out these two videos I did where I talk about these things.They're a bit long but I'm sure they will help you out and answer your questions :D
▶ Difference between Goth, Gothic, and Darkly-Inclined ~ ruclips.net/video/lk_QKoWWh2E/видео.html
▶ What is Goth music? ~ ruclips.net/video/4GsskYEDgrE/видео.html
that was very informative, im a bit new here but im very curious to join the culture and i still need to learn so many things, i guess im finally understanding this a bit better now!
Well to start things off, Goth is not a culture, it's a "Subculture", a music-based subculture/scene. Honestly all you need to know is that Goth is a music genre as well as the term used to describe the fans of said music. I did a whole video about Goth music and addressed misconceptions if you're wanting to get a 101 lesson sortaspeak.
▶ What is Goth? ~ ruclips.net/video/4GsskYEDgrE/видео.html
▶ Misconceptions of Goth (The difference between Goth, Gothic, and Darkly-Inclined) ~ ruclips.net/video/lk_QKoWWh2E/видео.html
The idea of goth as a mindset is technically not true, at least when it comes to the goth subculture as opposed maybe to gothic literature. But I can't help but feel that it nonetheless did have a positive effect as long as it lasted. Because what it did was provide somewhat of a "safe space" for certain mentalities that aren't well received in society.
I remember when I was in middle school and into things like Johnny the Homicidal Maniac, I briefly called myself a goth, because I figured it just went hand in hand. But once I actually started looking into the subculture and listening to the music, I quickly realized that I wasn't one and had no desire to be one. No offense to your interests, if you get something out of it then that's great, but I've never enjoyed listening to goth rock, nor do I vibe with the goth style or ideas. I came to understand that I was more into the "oddball and/or demented" field, which can bleed into "darkly-inclined" depending on what it is. But I'd much rather listen to Primus or one of the 90s alt rock bands (Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, etc) than most any goth rock band. Closest I'll get is Lacuna Coil, who I can listen to to a certain degree, but wouldn't make a "top 10" list for me. Also, I guess if I go for "genre proximity or derivation", then I would say Oingo Boingo, Art of Noise, Faith No More, or something like REM or The Smithereens. Also gotta love your discussion of "elitism" and what makes you truly goth, because man, when I was looking into the punk/goth world, that kinda thing was a huge deal, and I've always been torn on it. I can definitely feel the frustration towards people that act like they're a part of something but don't really understand it, but I do also think people can get pretty douchey towards those that "don't meet their standards." The metal world, which I'm a little more into, has this problem too, but what can you do? People are people, after all, as an 80s band once said.
A few things. You can be into dark things without being a Goth. All Goth is is a music genre that consists of 4 other sub-genres (Goth Rock, Deathrock, Darkwave, Coldwave, & Ethereal Wave) and to describe fans of Goth music. From what you said, you just sound Alternative. "Alternative" aside from a music genre is also a word used to describe people who are into the unconventional and "odd". Things that aren't considered mainstream and there's nothing wrong with it. I personally really like 90s Alternative Rock myself so I do get it.
On the so called "Elitism", again it's just people blowing things out of proportion. There is no "Goth standard". The only thing needed to be Goth is to like/listen to Goth music. It's no different than being a Metalhead where to be a Metalhead, you have to listen to Metal music and it's no different with Goth which just like Metal is a music-based scene. It doesn't matter how you dress (though yes, there are some styles that did come out of Goth music that do influence some of our personal styles) and it doesn't matter if you like non-Goth music as well, the main thing is just liking Goth music among the other music you listen to.
Also Lacuna Coil are not a Goth band, they started out as a Gothic Metal band (Gothic Metal is not Goth music, it's a Metal sub-genre) but post 2006 after their album "Karmacode", they went Alternative Metal & Nu Metal. You bringing up Lacuna Coil as "Goth" music makes me suspect that maybe you're not aware of Goth music and more specifically, it's sub-genres so for that if you are open or curious about Goth's sub-genres, maybe check out this video where I do a little dive into Goth music and share a few bands/songs that the genre has to offer because you might actually find a song or even sub-genre that peaks an interest. The video is a little long so I recommend watching it when you have the extra free time or in parts but yeah, just figured I'd share. ( ruclips.net/video/4GsskYEDgrE/видео.html )
@@KaiDecadence Well, yes, of course you can like dark things and not be goth. I expressed that in my original comment. As for the alternative thing, well, I don't generally like to label myself, but you're probably right in that it's probably the closest I can get to describing my tastes. Mostly because I often feel like I'm in the middle of everything taste wise (not quite mainstream, not quite arthouse, etc) and I do like off-kilter stuff. And generally a lot of the stuff I like musically would probably be thrown in the alternative banner anyway (or at least they would have at the time).
Well, things might have calmed down over the years, I'm sure, but my father would probably have a very different perspective on what it was like back then. He was in the metal scene back in the 80s, and was also aware of the punk and goth scenes too. There was a lot more push-back and gate-keeping going on in those days.
I think you misunderstood, or maybe I didn't word this properly. What I said was that Lacuna Coil was the "closest thing I'll get" to goth or gothic music. I wasn't calling them goth rock. Trust me, back when I was looking into this stuff, I listened to a pretty good amount of goth rock bands and didn't like any of them. These were bands like, Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, This Mortal Coil, Cocteau Twins, Red Lorry Yellow Lorry, and even London After Midnight. I guess I could have thrown Lacuna Coil in with the "genre proximity" list, but they were the closest to that "gothic melodrama" feel, so I just wanted to highlight them. Hell, I could've highlighted Faith No More, since especially early on they were basically post-punk/proto-goth with metal guitars, but they never quite had that gothic melodrama feel, so I decided against it.
@@JTHMSqueeMrEffDBoy Well I mean labels aren't necessarily a bad thing. They help describe a thing and in the case of "Alternative", it's just a phrase to describe people who aren't bothered or occupied with what is considered mainstream and trendy. Maybe even prefer a personal style that is seen as different or out there.
I'm just being frank. The people who complained about "elitism" in Goth were usually those who don't even like Goth music anyway and were just pissed that they weren't considered Goth because they don't like the thing that Goth is centered around. With the exception of the 80s Elitist who thinks that any Goth music made after the 1980s is not real Goth music, majority of the fans are not like that and so long as you like Goth music among your other music you like, that's really all there is to it. Very simple.
Well "Goth" and "Gothic" even in the music sense are different. "Goth" is just the genre that came from Post-Punk and consisted Goth Rock, Deathrock, Darkwave, Coldwave, and Ethereal Wave. "Gothic" never mean music tied to "Goth" and really only referred to architecture, Art, Literature, and Film and eventually was used as a theming in Metal music ("Gothic Metal") where the lyrics would make reference to Gothic Literature.
I'm not sure what you mean by "Gothic melodrama", if you're just talking about a Dark tone/feel then I mean... Any genre of music can have that, Goth's primary characteristic that makes it what it is assuming you saw the video, was it's guitar style dubbed "Scything". And that's why I cannot fathom how anyone could even vaguely link Lacuna Coil to the Goth genre, especially their newer stuff post Karmacode era. And even then, their early stuff had nothing in terms of "Dark" feel compared to other Gothic Metal bands like Theatre of Tragedy, Tristania (when Vibeke Stene was in the band), and Artrosis but that's just my opinion of course.
Only clicked cause I seen evanescence in thumbnail
Kay... lol
I always find it difficult to deside which a bands are Goth especially on the German music scene and I personally don't care if they are or not . I grew up with The Mission , Sisters of Mercy ,Cure , Fields of the Nephilim , Rossetta Stone and Bauhaus and one can't just keep listening to these . These were released 30 years ago
If you find it difficult to decipher whether a band is Goth regardless of the country, you just haven't learned what the goth sound really is and need to listen to more goth bands to really get it but to save you some time, I made a video for this very problem to at the very least, help newcomers or people who still aren't sure what the Goth sound is have some insight of what to listen for. Give this video a listen if you have the time, I go over the instrumental quirks that make Goth what it is.
( ruclips.net/video/4GsskYEDgrE/видео.html )
> 𝘐 𝘨𝘳𝘦𝘸 𝘶𝘱 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘔𝘪𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯 , 𝘚𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘴 𝘰𝘧 𝘔𝘦𝘳𝘤𝘺 ,𝘊𝘶𝘳𝘦 , 𝘍𝘪𝘦𝘭𝘥𝘴 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘕𝘦𝘱𝘩𝘪𝘭𝘪𝘮 , 𝘙𝘰𝘴𝘴𝘦𝘵𝘵𝘢 𝘚𝘵𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘉𝘢𝘶𝘩𝘢𝘶𝘴 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘤𝘢𝘯'𝘵 𝘫𝘶𝘴𝘵 𝘬𝘦𝘦𝘱 𝘭𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘦𝘯𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘰 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘴𝘦 . 𝘛𝘩𝘦𝘴𝘦 𝘸𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘳𝘦𝘭𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘦𝘥 30 𝘺𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘴 𝘢𝘨𝘰
No where did I say that those bands or really any of the other goth bands from the 80s and 90s were the only goth bands. Goth music never went anyway and was continually made through the 2000s, the 2010s, and is pushing into the 2020s. The only difference was that goth music wasn't being as heavily made in the early 2000s compared to the 90s before it but eventually there was a revival in the late 2000s, early 2010s what with notable newer bands like Angels of Liberty, She Past Away, and Drab Majesty to name a few critically acclaimed bands.
If you're looking for new goth music, you're on one of the best sites to find it which is here on RUclips. I've made so many playlists dedicated to showcasing newer Goth bands, check these out when you have the time.
( Modern Goth Bands 2010-2020 ) - ruclips.net/p/PLfy8BY8wU0RMcHcYh-3kzeJUqLNlZz3Nd
How about Mono inc , Blutengel ,Lord of the Lost ,Cruxshadows and Pitchfork Project ?
As for Angels of Liberty I knew Scarlet and saw but never understood She Past Away ,yes I know its Turkish . Will look up Drab Majesty though
@@thegremlin3194 • Mono Inc ~ So admittedly I hadn't listen to them in awhile, they weren't a band I particularly paid attention to. I listened to a couple songs to refresh my memory and from what I've heard, no they don't do Goth rock. What they actually do is Hard Rock. In a way they're like the male equivalent of Evanescence and a heavier version of HIM where they add in some classical tones to the Hard Rock sound but they just don't utilize the key element of Goth rock which is scything guitar which keeps their sound from being Goth Rock.
• Lord of the Lost ~ Never heard of them so looked them up and gave them a listen and they are Gothic Metal. Gothic Metal =/= Goth, it's a sub-genre of Metal.
• The Cruxshadows ~ The Cruxshadow's first album 1993's "Night Crawl In" was a Goth rock album and their second album 1995's "Telemetry of a Fallen Angel" was a combination of Darkwave and Synth Pop. And last but not least their third album 1999's "Mystery of the Whisper" was a mix of Darkwave, Synth Pop, and Futurepop. 9 out of 17 of the songs on that album were Darkwave while the rest were Futurepop with one Neoclassical song. But after this album, The Cruxshadows moved on to ditching Goth entirely and made the full migration to playing and alternating between Futurepop and Synthpop and only played Darkwave whenever they played their old songs at live shows. They went on to release 5 more albums since this and are now just considered a Futurepop band. and Futurepop is not a Goth sub-genre, it's a sub-genre of EBM which by extension was a sub-genre of Industrial.
To answer your question though, no The Cruxshadows are not Goth, at least not anymore. They started out Goth but eventually moved away and found a home in the Futurepop style of music.
• Pitchfork Project ~ They are an Industrial band but more specifically, they mostly dabbled and played around with Electro-Industrial, EBM, and Futurepop but they've also done the occasional Synth Pop song as well. In short though, no they are not a Goth band. They are one of those bands that got wrongly misgenre'd as Darkwave by people who don't know what Darkwave music actually sounds like.
• Blutengel ~ Blutengel started out as EBM with some Synth Pop but eventually went on to do Futurepop music while still playing the occasional EBM and Synth Pop song. Blutengel are one of the biggest examples of a band being mislabled as Goth or more specifically, Darkwave by people who didn't know what Darkwave actually sounds like. Point is, they never were Goth/Darkwave,.
Hope this helps.
Interesting comments and I am not surprised by many of your comments and have argued a couple of them but all have been labeled as Goth by some people . Ill stick with Witching Hour and Ligea though many thanks for your comments Ed
@@thegremlin3194 > 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙝𝙖𝙫𝙚 𝙖𝙧𝙜𝙪𝙚𝙙 𝙖 𝙘𝙤𝙪𝙥𝙡𝙚 𝙤𝙛 𝙩𝙝𝙚𝙢 𝙗𝙪𝙩 𝙖𝙡𝙡 𝙝𝙖𝙫𝙚 𝙗𝙚𝙚𝙣 𝙡𝙖𝙗𝙚𝙡𝙚𝙙 𝙖𝙨 𝙂𝙤𝙩𝙝 𝙗𝙮 𝙨𝙤𝙢𝙚 𝙥𝙚𝙤𝙥𝙡𝙚
Again, that is because a lot of people, especially back in the 2000s were labeling any dark sounding electronic music as "Goth" or "Darkwave" when it really wasn't. Blutengel, The Cruxshadow's later work post-1999, and Project Pitchfork were the biggest examples of this misinformation as well as the entirety of people not understanding the difference between Darkwave and EBM (and Futurepop) music.
But nonetheless, you're welcome.
My viewz and opinionz on Goth are different from yourz,and I won't disclose what differences but, I do admire how much wizdom you express in theze videoz. I mean you actually put Goth guitar sythe stringz on computer to show what they sound like.
I'm a goth who jokingly calls lots of dark or simply just black colored things goth. Like I call dark chocolate oreos goth oreos (because they are all black oreos) and I really hope no one thinks I'm serious lol. I never stoped to think someone may not think that I'm joking till now.
Oh no, I think it's one thing if you're just joking around with people who know what Goth truly is because we're usually all on the same page but it's when you do it around newbies or people who don't know what Goth truly is about that can create some problems and confusion because they won't know you're joking unless you say so.
You CAN be goth and listen to Motown and anything else you want to ,that is just liking music .
Never said a goth can't listen to other music. If you like Motown, cool. What I'm saying is that if you listen to Motown but you don't listen to Goth music then it's redundant to call oneself a Goth when they don't partake in what the scene is about which is music. That's all I was getting at in the video. Heck check out my playlists on my channel and you'll see what other music I listen to besides Goth.
Well said! Yeah, random black item = goth is so annoying! Don't even get me started on the cult of Jack Skellington...
Yeah it was just something I was seeing so much of and it was getting frustrating to see with this whole Black object = Goth mentality. I just had to speak up LOL. And Oh man Jack Skellington. I love The Nightmare Before Christmas, it was a beautiful work of claymation but that being said, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't annoyed with the worship of the franchise and how it's toted as the best "Goth thing" ever and that just falls back into my Goth vs Darkly-Inclined spheal where the movie is not a "Goth" movie.
Amazing Video.
I hope many minds are cleared now after this!
That's the hope haha.
Just like I like my coffee,Gothy😂.
One thing I can't stand is this micro-labels for each style like "corp goth" "nu goth" "cyber goth" "Cabaret goth" like maybe I'm being ignorant or maybe I'm not educated, but what does this have to do with the music ?
Honestly those terms really have nothing to do with the music and at most, most of them are misappropriated styles of "Goth". "Cyber Goth", "Cabaret Goth", "Perky Goth", "Mopey Goth", etc. those are not actual Goth styles.
In the grand scheme though they aren't important.
@@KaiDecadence Exactly. I just don't understand why everyone has to brand themselves "Oh I'm a nu goth teehee" what does that mean!?! It confuses me and honestly sometimes I question if they have like... any idea what this subculture is about. But yeah no they're not important.
@@Fathergirl5000 In my honest opinion the ones who fret over that kinda stuff of "what kind of goth am I", they tend to not actually be interested in the music, at least from what I've observed. Usually they're the ones who will say they like "all kinds of goth music" and then never follow up with any bands and then you take a look at the kind music they share/post and it's usually metal bands or in this day, "mumble rap" artists. But that's been my own observation.