Reacting To THAT VAR Audio 🤬
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- The PGMOL released the audio for Luis Diaz's incorrectly ruled out goal vs Tottenham and it is an absolute shambles...
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The sounds fine. They are just scruffy ballbags still on edge/3g
They are killing the game and all they get is a ONE GAME BAN. they shouldn't be allowed non league football never mind Premier league. If they want to growing talk of curruption they need to either have a former football professional on every game (VAR) or the audio needs to be broadcast into the stadiums everytime
Those referees had issues with sound
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Shocking content
Serious props needs to be given to Liverpool for pushing and being so public about wanting a review because they would have just let their “apology” sit and we wouldn’t have ever known what really happened. This will now force wide spread changes to the PGMOL to make communication clearer and better. Maybe even add a rule about stopping the game if something unprecedented happens again.
They lost the longest unbeaten run in Europe, Salah lost his goal contribution streak which should now be 13 games in a row and they could have gone to the top of the table or at least level with spurs/arsenal now. We’ll never know. However, they have lost the league by 1 point multiple times so the margins are so so fine and this could have huge ramifications for their season. And yet, all they wanted was clarification and a review of the wider process. They didn’t want a replay or points awarded or whatever lies Twitter has been spreading. And this will change VAR as we know it for the better to help make sure there is a smaller space for human error.
As a united fan I'm fully behind them, it's bigger than ravalry, it's an absolute joke how VAR seems to get worse and worse every season.... insanity
They haven't had an opology they've had an explanation that it was down to human error
Well said 👏🏿
They lost the season a few years ago cos var failed to give a handball against rodri vs everton during the end of the season
kd, excellent comment from top to bottom.
The fact that anyone in the media who calls the VAR operators "incompetent" gets rebuked for it really annoys me. Why can't we call a spade a spade? They're absolutely terrible at their job and we have all the proof now. Shocking system, bin it off.
Absolutely nothing wrong "the system" of VAR, just those using it.
@mojebi3804 there's everything wrong with the system, the people are part of the system. It was developed by people who don't know their arse from their elbow
The operator who wasnt even a ref was the only person who was competent tbf.
I'd be a bit hesitant to throw this all at the people involved, tbh, and that is speaking as a Liverpool fan. Saturday's refereeing errors were some of the most egregious we've seen, and I think it's only right that fellow Liverpool fans have complained about them, but these mistakes have happened before this season and last, and so I think there comes a point at which you can't just blame the personnel anymore, and you have to look at the system they're working within, and conclude that there's major flaws in it. Clearly there's not enough safeguards present, if a single mistake in communication can turn an entire game of football on its head.
Look at German football. They have 0 VAR problems. Look at Rugby. Nothing freaking wrong with VAR. People? Should be removed. And do consider that those same people doing VAR voted against SEMI AUTOMATED VAR and decided to do this.
People who are saying "Now we've heard the audio, we can understand mistakes happen" ... No, if we did this in our jobs we would be sacked. They're paid enough, and have enough tools at their disposal not to make these stupid mistakes.
I think the pressure of making decisions that quickly and that many people talking at once has caused this. Its learning on the job
There is no order. Those exchanges were shocking. They are talking over each other constantly. Am not surprised tgey make mistakes weekly.
Cobblers. People make mistakes all the time. Doesn't mean instant dismissal. What a load of rubbish
@@mr.pooland2951yeah they took like 3 minutes to check and give Jones a red card, bur took seconds to rule out a completely legitimate goal? Fishy
Sack them all
Let me get this right, the only one who did not miscommunicate in English conversation between English experienced refs is a "DUTCH" young guy who is NOT a ref?
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I applaud the replay guy who went against protocol, against his seniors, to try to get things right. The other two should get a job bagging groceries
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Hey.....bag packers at least have some knowledge of what they are doing 😂
i am reminded of matthew syed's black box thinking where the nurse almost saves the day, but the two senior doctors are in too much panic/shock to hear what she is saying - the patient needlessly and tragically dies.
Honestly this type of error in what is supposed to be the “best league in the world” is shocking
Maybe people will wake up and start to see the difference between “best” and “most commercialized”
*Again...this type of error again
@@cameronpeterson5961the prem is the best league though. Stop trying to find stupid reasons why it’s not. The teams are the best.
@@cameronpeterson5961 I mean it’s not even close 😂 English teams have been dominating in Europe for the last 5 years
@@jakeonyx4775Spanish teams have more wins against u, more UCL, more UEL... Stfu 😭
You also can’t rule out a perfectly onside goal as offside but they had no issue doing that
I keep seeing this argument but it just doesn't work. Anyone who has inadvertently violated organizational protocol is well aware that it is magnitudes worse to do it intentionally. I'm sick of all the Monday morning quarterbacking going on with regards to the VAR officials. The fact of the matter is if you have it drilled I to your head not to violate protocol then when pushes comes to shove you follow protocol.
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@@Sitarman345I'm sick of the nerds like you that wouldn't have the balls to correct a mistake that you've made ! And then play it off as protocol.. They should drill in the actual protocol and the steps they should take before refusing a clear goal
@@Sitarman345Protocols are deliberately broken for the right reasons all the time, idiot.
@@Sitarman345 theyve pulled back the game for pen checks before so the protocol doesnt seem to count then
At the end of last season, Brighton had two legitimate goals chalked off by VAR against Spurs and we went on to lose 2-1 as well. I utterly sympathize with Liverpool fans. I know _exactly_ how it feels! When it happened to us, it got swept under the rug with an 'apology'. They tried doing it again, but thankfully, Liverpool are big enough to actually be listened to
You should have been listened to to begin with. Did Brighton push it further?
@@TottoHolm I think we did try to take it further, but basically got told in no uncertain terms "Hey, these things happen. You got an apology, so just move on from it", so we did.
We definitely could have done more, but I don't think we wanted to push our luck and poke the bear, as it were.
Liverpool, on the other hand, are a whole different beast and _can_ poke the bear without fear. They literally threatened legal action. We definitely didn't try to take it that far. As highly praised as Brighton are right now, we're still relative upstarts in the eyes of the Premier League rulers. Liverpool are an establishment. They've got a lot more weight behind them than we do.
@@BadgerOff32Spot on. Some rival fans, criticising Liverpool for going after the official are disgraceful. Now that Liverpool successfully get the audio in public, football fans irrespective of clubs and rivalry, we get to know how incompetent the refs and VAR officials are. Also, their crappy rules of not being able to stop the game once restarted. Going forward, we all can hope that the refs and officials will do their job seriously and competently. Moreover, the Premier league should compensate (with money or somehow) to those affected clubs with their error and wrong decision.
What's the graver injustice? Stop a game 20 seconds into a restart or carrying on for an hour knowing a wrong decision was made
Well done to Liverpool to stood their ground and not just let this slide
The Audio makes it worse. There’s no other way around it. Yes the only slight positive is that they did know they screwed up straight away; well the tech guy did and let the rest of the room know. But the whole point of this mess is the fact that the people paid and in charge of the VAR who are solely there to watch the football match on the screens attentively, didn’t have a scooby what they were even drawing the line for in the first place. No good saying “check complete” if you don’t even know if you’re checking the correct thing. Like taking your car to the garage and the mechanic takes a look under the Bonet and says “check complete” when you’ve brought it in for a dodger exhaust. Complete waste of time
What are you talking about? The VAR said "Check complete, that's fine". As in the goal was fine and it wasn't offside. But someone on the pitch misunderstood him and probably thought he was saying the offside decision was "fine". Just a simple and understandable communication problem which happens millions and millions of times a day....
@@tinlemac3918 no but my point being is that if they were paying attention to what was happening on the screens; if the on field decision had been a goal like they believed and is what they were checking for, they would have seen 1 to 2 minutes worth of wild celebrations from the Liverpool players either during or before they began doing their checks because there would have been no offside flag to stop the Liverpool players from doing so. So the “simple miscommunication” doesn’t even come into it.
And you're going to tell me this hasn't happened before? Disorganised bloody chaos! And the thing is if Liverpool hadn't pushed we would be none the wiser.
Exactly. Don't want to hear G Nev cry about officiating again. Threw his toys out of the pram when Liverpool started pushing for answers.
OFC Liverpool complained about it, it's the worst decision we have seen so far
i couldn't hear shit 😂😂
@@plm6523But several media pundits and some fans were calling them "whiners and complainers", and saying they should just accept that it was a mistake and accept the apology.
"Offside, goal, yeah" tf that means someone please translate it 😭
They needed to have the balls to go against protocol, but they wouldn't.
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Was intention they always check penalty after the game goes on
Whats worse the voice of reason saying delay the game ,was totally ignored , so they can cover up their BS
It was all premeditated deliberate & intentional. LFC got bad calls that entire game. They made a concious & clear decision not to allow LFC to win that game. They deliberately rushed the var decision & no lines were shown compared to how long they usually take. They made it seem there was a "error in communication" but it was all by design imo.
I agree with you. Too many "mistakes" against us.
There is a reason why they don't want us to listen live during games! I don't believe them, I reckon it's been edited! I want to listen to it at least 2min before the goal, seems like VAR guy was was awake for Curtis Jones incident!
The world cup proved it can be used right. It is used right across Europe.
The problem is incompetent, unaccountable refs that regulate themselves, headed by a guy more interested in self aggrandizement than the game.
The fact the VAR procedure allowed such an easy to make mistake to happen without any failsafe, but had a procedure to disallow correction is madness
It's got to be deliberate so they can manipulate outcomes
@@chrisburton4128 It is.
It's always been that way in Football. VAR was deliberately introduced for that purpose - to more easily manipulate results. It has been allowed to go on for so long because Football fans are exceptionally thick in the skull. Not really meant as an insult, it's true.
There's no billion dollar industry on this Earth which is not completely corrupted, but somehow Football fans think it's a fair game.
Same with those insane transfer sums, it's blatant money laundering schemes, just like "charity" foundations. There's waaaay too much money in Football to not take control of that money.
They are obviously trying to gaslight the audience with their excuses, while it's obvious that they're confusing and delaying the outcome to use "it's too late" as an excuse for their match-fixing.
The 1st referee should be demoted as well. He restarted the game without getting the decision confirmed. It's on purpose. The three referees should be disqualified from refereeing in professional football. This is blatant match fixing. They obviously wanted the goal disallowed and delayed the decision until they could pretend it was too late. Investigation into their UAE trip should be made.
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@@chrisburton4128 I think you overestimate human stupidity
A good theoretical question is: imagine its the 38th game. A LFC win wins them the league. Imagine this exact game and VAR nonsense happens and LFC then lose the game, and league by a point. How would everyone, including the league winners feel about this?
I think most non liverpool fans would be delighted
@@dsm577 well I suppose most Lance Armstrong fans were delighted when he was winning, but it didn't do the sport any good. If it damages it today, it damages it for tomorrow, when your team might be winning. It devalues the competition.
@dsm577 I hope your looking forward to having to travel to uae to watch the best players. They own our league and refs
The ironic thing is the VAR actually worked really well - they made the checks and came to a decision very quickly. The issue was simply the communication, if VAR had just said ‘the goal stands’ instead of ‘check complete’, then none of this would have happened. It’s actually a tiny tiny mistake, which in any other walk of life would have been unnoticed or easily corrected, but because of the circumstances it was in here has had a huge impact
It's not a tiny mistake. Liverpool lost the title twice by a point on the last day. Diaz's goal completely changes the game. Spurs kickoff from the halfline instead of from the offside no guarantee they score no guarantee gakpo gets injured and jota comes on halftime.
Just an observation. The original PGMOL story is BS. Right after the goal was scored, the ref said: "Coming back to the offside mate". The VAR guy followed up with "checking the offside"! Event the top banner on their monitor was saying "Checking disallowed goal". They KNEW that the call was offside. And they followed up with "check complete". Meaning they've validated the offside call after determining that the goal was valid.
@@aarontrimble8233 You're waffling. Not everything is a plot against liverpool. They made a communication error, could've happened to any team
If you ask me, Hooper is way more at fault for that match than VAR. Sure, they overturned Jones yellow to a red, but the outrageous refereeing from Hooper that day was mad.
@@paulvanbrakel they were checking the decision for offside. You can hear them say this. Even the banner on screen and in the ground showed checking disallowed goal.
They ignored the calls to delay. They waited and acted like they weren’t watching the match of football. Surely anyone that watches the game would know kick off is from the centre circle after a goal has been scored. I’ve never seen a decision so quick. Whatever about Liverpool these guys are completely corrupt and don’t understand football.
Not to mention the two sending offs which were also questionable and completely changed the game
Good thing they've never asked the PGMOL to do air traffic control at Heathrow.
After listening, I’m genuinely baffled how they didn’t get this call right. There needs to be a replay of the game or something of the sorts when there is a mistake that huge. Not a fan of either team btw
Do you think they'd ever replay a game or is it too ambitious for the plebs high up in the prem?
There absolutely does NOT need to be a replay of the game.
Replay is too much but urgent changes to what they should do, should be made before the weekend.
@@BasedinReality1984
*There absolutely does NOT need to be a replay of the game*
So moving forward any team that gets screwed by incompetent officiating just has to get on with it, no recourse, could lose the league by a point or get relegated by a point, could cost the club millions? If Diaz had scored, who knows what the result would have been? Share the points as both teams scored two goals? Again, this may not have happened like this if Diaz goal stood.
Best way to resolve is to play the game again.
They could on theory award 3 points to Liverpool, leaving Spurs points as they are (so they both get 3 points) to avoid a dumb replay but even that doesn't seem like a good solution. It's so fucked up
In the NHL, someone could "score", the refs not see it, the play carry on for 2 minutes, the officials in the review booth catch it, message down to the on ice official, and he blows the play dead and calls the goal. EVEN IF the other team scored a goal after that. You just count the original goal, and restart the game from the time that goal went in. Easy as pie.
Just an observation. The original PGMOL story is BS. Right after the goal was scored, the ref said: "Coming back to the offside mate". The VAR guy followed up with "checking the offside"! Event the top banner on their monitor was saying "Checking disallowed goal". They KNEW that the call was offside. And they followed up with "check complete". Meaning they've validated the offside call after determining that the goal was valid.
exactly
Remember the young dutch var controller is the one who put that freeze frame up as the evidence for ref to check on curtis jones tackle
What happens when a quick free kick is taken, they pull the game back to take the free kick again. The game can be pulled back
Nah mate its actually shambles. This game could end up being important for placement. Even if not the title race. But consider if Tottenham ends up finishing above liverpool due to a small point difference. Suddenly this error resulted in Liverpool losing prize money and depending where they end up, maybe a champions league spot. This cant be allowed.
Champions League final 2019 - serious VAR error within the first minute. Enough said.
Worse has happened before mate get a grip. You're 7 games into the season, to say this will affect the final placements is laughable there's still 31 games to play! 😂
Spurs won't be finishing above Liverpool this season, they're fucking shite
@@McZoltanOnlinenailed on handball is a “significant var error”? Take your head out ur ass mate
the only thing i can think of how they missed the offside flag is that VAR was on the phone being bored.
They should really look at how rugby does their VAR (TMO) process. Their process is clear and transparent with everybody hearing what they are looking at and what decision is being made. Also, it is clear who is in control of the decision making!
They don't even need to give the goal. Alert Simon Hooper and the managers, Ange probably lets us score if he's made aware of what has happened. The idea of staying silent is just absolutely bizarre to me.
I think this is sensible. Certainly believe that Ange would do something akin to Bielsa when he allowed Villa to score a ‘free goal’
Love the part where rory speaks
He changed it nooooo
var managed to make costly mistakes in 6 different premier league games in just this one weekend of fixtures... that's a 60% failure rate - FIRE THEM ALL
I mean without VAR it's still not a goal, the linesman raised his flag.
You miss, in this example, an obvious flaw. I am not against the sentiment. VAR does effect enjoyment. But in this instance the decision was Offside. So all "joy" was taken away. If the Check was applied correctly, the Goal would have stood, and celebrations would have gone on. The system failed, yes, but it failed ON the Pitch first.
My issue isn't even the initial mistake, its the fact that after realising it, they refused to correct it - even though they were being told to. Common sense should of told them to award Liverpool the goal even after play had resumed.
It’s against the rules to give the goal once play has started
@@arshia1308their superior from the PGMOL, Oli told them to. It’s in the audio. So if you’re saying they were worried about being fired, I assure you that’s not the case
The replay operator was the only sensible person in that room. The game should’ve been stopped and the goal should’ve counted. So much incompetence in VAR. There needs to be former players in VAR because the refs haven’t played the game professionally. VAR is supposed to help but it doesn’t
1) The on-field ref simply must tell the VAR officials what the on-field call is.
2) Instead of these "Check complete" ambiguities, they must add "good goal" or "off-side" to the response. Make it "Good goal, Check complete, Good goal", and "Off-side, Check complete, Off-side."
3) When the refs realize a mistake of such magnitude has been made, the ref should be able to stop the game, pull the two managers together, show them the video of why the call was wrong, and correct it to the right decision,
4) Only VAR specialist will do VAR. Don't let the refs rotate between on-field and VAR duties from game to game.
5) The refs and VAR officials who are responsible for this mistake are just as clumsy as Curtis Jones' challenge that got him red-carded. No ill-intend, but clumsiness. The difference is that Jones’ challenge was potentially damaging but this refs’ mistake is proven damaging. If Jones is banned for 3 games, how many games are these VAR officials getting banned? The "gods" at PGMOL must make that transparent if Howard Webb wasn't faking it when he emphasized transparency.
6) At the end of the PL season, if Liverpool misses out on anything by 3 points, or if Tottenham qualifies/wins anything by 3 points, an asterisk needs to be put next to the PL table to indicate the refs' mistake contributes to that final standing. This refs' mistake must be engraved into the PL history forever moving forward.
They have a system where they can buzz down to the referee if the ball has completely crossed the goal line even by a millimeter. They could've buzzed the referee, but chose not to.
Without VAR it would have been incorrectly ruled out anyway
It’s against protocol to cancel a legitimate goal and restart with a free kick but they still went ahead and did that!
Favourite part:
"offside, goal, yeah" 🤦🏻♂️
The referee made a clear and obvious error......he could have been called to the monitor by VAR to correct the mistake of foul play..... by VAR!!
Spurs took the free kick about 15yrds from where Diaz was so the ref had a chance to pull it back for that and then VAR could've told him.
Match fixing. NOT human error.
Kudos to the replay operator.
Least senior guy in the hierarchy.
Went as far as he dared.
“Are you happy with that?”
Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
Notice he daren’t say,
“A mistake has been made”
The audio is awful, it seems like it's just 4-5 people talking all at the same time whilst at the same time having no idea what anyone is saying, very bizarre
Its clear that they just werent watching the game except for the operator. Nobody could be watching that and then be confused about what happened. They werent watching at all and it led to this
Oh, for Christ's sake, don't cry mate, it's only a game!
It's not only VAR that is the problem. The Hooper had a SHOCKING match as well. Jones red card (arguable, 50/50), but then accidents where footballers slip over the ball and even tries to stop himself, needs to be red cards. No matter what. High tackle, straight red. Jota first yellow, not a yellow. Gomez not getting a penalty. Gakpo tackled from behind by Udogie, nothing. Gakpo used as a football by Romero right outside the box, nothing. Salah was in a duell with Udogie (?), incorrect decision. Jota second yellow was fair enough, but ref could have warned him since he barely touched Udogie (I agree with the yellow before anyone gets their panties in a twist). Udogie punching Endo in the face, should have been a red. Udogie shouts at the ref for him to give Jota his second yellow, should have had a yellow card for that. Robertson getting revenge tackled after elbowing Perro in a tackle, nothing. Madisson diving on multiple occasions. Heard that a Tottenham player that had a yellow took off his shirt while celebrating Matip's own goal, didn't receive a red.
Should have been a few red cards for Tottenham, but they were extremely quick to give them all to Liverpool.
And for them not to give the offside goal is just a small drop in the water in the whole match, but it gets all the focus. Luckily for Hooper.
thats what really infuriates me is that fact that all the referees are more concerned about following their own "rules" than they are about actually getting the decisions in the match correct. apparently calling the play back 20 seconds into play would have been a worse outcome than just deciding not to give a perfectly good goal.
What Jamie said about the ref going to the monitor and being told what they are to do by VAR instead of actually letting the ref look at the actual issue proves this was done on purpose. They just thought that protocol would get them saved. He made sure to say I can’t do anything. That means the VAR room told the ref to send Jones off, and purposely disallowed the goal by miscommunication. That is why he ignored what Oli was saying. He waited for the ball to kick off then he suddenly heard what Oli is saying. This was done on purpose all day. The worst part is that they never let the on field ref knew until after the 2nd half starts. He purposely ignored the call to delay the game. Once the game was gone , then he suddenly start hearing what Oli is trying to get across. This was plan by VAR. Oliver and England. They thought that by claiming to follow protocol, it would have saved their skins
Scrapping VAR isnt the solution and wouldnt have lead to the correct call! Just needs to be implemented properly. Listen to that tape. That's not a VAR problem, that is an incomptency problem.
Manchester United got a Penalty given after the full time whistle was blown… Liverpool have to bear the cross of this injustice and drive forward for positive change. I’m not expecting us to be compensated with our due points and in a way that’s good because that would take away from the essence of our martyrdom. This isn’t about Liverpool this is about football
I think saying get rid of VAR is stupid - it was the staffs fault and clearly some kind of stupid rule where they had to go with the wrong decision
People don't know anything about the problem and why a replay match must be held, so I'll explain why. It's not about judgement of red card, handball or something like that, in which referee's judgement is involved and can be controversial, but by referee's call, it's decided. In this VAR case, VAR referee, who was in charge of the judgement of onside or offside, called it was onside, which means a goal, but the goal was disallowed. You know, when it comes to red card or handball, the on-field referee sometimes checks the video himself, which is the on-field check, but when it comes to onside or offside, the on field referee doesn't check it. Why not? Onside or offside is just a technical issue without human judgement involved. Just draw a line and you see. If it's onside, onside. If it's offside, offside. No human judgement involved at all like the goal line system. You guys know about the goal line system, right? It alarms the referee that it's a goal when the ball crosses the goal line. It's the totally same situation as when the goal line system calls that it's a goal but the referee disallows the goal. Can you accept it?
Protocol can still be broken anytime, nothing is stopping FA from awarding Diaz's Goal anytime.
We hade a football-morning-show in Sweden there Jonas Eriksson hade a 15 minute talk about this, he even said that they should have skipped the book and called a break as soon that they know there was a mistake in communication 😊 The role book is very stiff and a good ref knows when to bend them
Liverpool have been fined by the FA for “ill discipline” because of the number of cards they got in the game.
Gobsmacked.
Wait what?
Alternative title: VAR is in "crisis" 😂
Well done boys, good process
How can he say "perfect" "check complete"... when he didn't even know wtf he was checking for!?
The camera man is like "it's on side".. Mike Oliver is like "delay the game" and the ones with the power to do something (delay and dont inform the ref), say "perfect" a moment ago, ignore the error then say "we can't do nothing"..
Sorry, but this is corruption, I know people will disagree.
However, this was not the only error in the game, the Jones challenge was a stitch up by VAR after the ref gave a yellow, and half a dozen critical errors, such the foul on Gakpo not even being a booking, Jota's first was a joke, Gomez got snappednin the box, their players protested for yellows and got nothing.
It was one of the most shambolic events I have witnessed, it was like the Amir Khan vs Peterson boxing match, when that giza was on film handling the judges' cards level of Tom Foolery.
Darren England gets asked "it was a goal are you happy with this" and he says "yes" he gets asked several times and does fuck all.
He, then delays, ignoring everything and says "there is nothing I can do"...
This is worse than if they were watching the rider cup... the ones with the power weren't watching the game, ignored the warnings and ignored the request to delay.
Maybe it isn't corruption, but there is a percentage that it is, and based on the decisions throughout the match and this audio, it could be a significant possibility.
The copy guy is the one who calls out the BS of the restart, and shouts delay.
The VARs were like "huh what's that now".. and just diddle dalied, absolutely shambolic.
It stated with the lines "checking offside".... on the images on the screen they provide that was used in the analysis.
And there was more dodgy decisions.
It was like listening to a comedy sketch and it actually happened..id love to hear the rest of there conversation when they knew they were screwed 😂😂
7:26 who makes the final decision in a game, is it VAR or the match referee? VAR acted like they’re the decision makers, and because they couldn’t see how to rectify the situation, they choose to keep Simon Hooper in the dark? You couldn’t make this up!! 😮
Look on the bright side.......They don't work in Air Traffic Control
The main point you miss, the var did not care, that they made a mistake...
i like var for offside.
That is the reason england should be fired, he did not care, that he made a mistake.
They way they communicate, without any type of acknowledgement protocol in place, speaks to the ineptitude and incompetence. It’s beyond shocking. It’s a dereliction of duty, it’s an unfitness for purpose. The game should honestly be replayed or the goal added into the score and the points shared.
When you listen to it, you can not tell who is in charge or making the decision. Needs to be one person in charge that talks and the others only speak when spoken to. Clear and consise communication. Its not hard.
The refs said they cannot break the rules or protocol when the game is play on because it had never done that before,but this VAR miscommunication also never had this type of case b4 for not giving a legitimate goal
Amateur hour in the most expensive league on the planet
Its not VAR, its how its used by idiots. Face it PL Refs are not up to standard.
Rori Jennings is such a joy to listen to lol the way he is shocked makes me laugh so hard🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
"30, so junior" - ahhh I feel young again
We need to hear the audio from the yellow card which was converted to a red card. I would be very interested to know the level of communication involved in that decision because I personally think we can't just excuse this as incompetence. They seemed to communicate perfectly fine for that one (clearly overturning a decision ) but then mysteriously went to custard on the goal. I suspect there's corruption
I'm for VAR, I don't want it scrapped.
The officials in the booth need to be a separate organisation to the Referees as we've seen they'll not make calls based on friends.
It's mostly a technical job, bring in semi-automatic offside and hire technicians. You can teach someone was there a foul, it doesn't need to be a referee. They just need to be able to go, possible foul, possible hand ball and send a Ref to a booth to decide.
Love the passion Ror.
For me there are 2 glaring issues with VAR, 1. VAR is another referee not a tool of THE referee and 2. The decisions during process are not transparent to the fans in stadium and at home. Rugby has TMO which is effectively the same tool and the referee can be heard talking to the video officials, he requests what he wants to see and what angles and even at what speed, all images are displayed on the stadium big screens so that fans are aware. You could argue that maybe it takes a little longer but it doesn’t feel long when you are being involved it is only the periods of waiting in the dark that feel long
It was a mistake. Don’t think they should be hung drawn and quartered for it.
They fckin should
VAR is there to prevent mistakes not cause them.
Wasn’t the actual technology though was it? The technology worked. It’s the humans. Personally think they should scrap it anyway-fans are more accepting when a ref gets it wrong in the moment-they’re not accepting when it can be avoided like thsi
Everybody seems to be missing an important point. The story they told everyone is BS.
"We thought the on field decision was onside"
VAR - "Possible Offside on Diaz"
First thing the linesman says when Diaz scores - "I'm bringing it back for the offside."
VAR - "Just checking the offside, delay delay."
Not "checking the onside call", nope, VAR said "Checking THE OFFSIDE. So they did think it was offside, then checked, saw it was onside and gave vague instruction, confused the situation, goal wasn't given and then they go "we can't do anything".
Something very dodgy has gone on there.
Look the ref. Lost control ,a disallowed goal then issues 2 red and 8 yellow cards to the same side !
The wording of the protocol actually just says you can not start a VAR review after the game has been restarted. It does not say you can not go back if the review led to a wrong decision.
It seems that if a different official had refereed the game the goal would probably have been awarded.Simon Hooper was informed by Liverpool officials of the error at half time.Why then not get both managers together show them the error and let Liverpool walk the goal at start of second half.The idea that "nothing could be done " is nonsense as there are multiple examples of "doing the right thing ".eg Man utd/Brighton Leeds/Aston Villa.Who would have complained? Would the referee been reprimanded for doing the right thing by PGMOL ?
How many times clubs have lost out because of these errors=championship points,relegation matters ?Liverpool lost the league by a point when perhaps Rodri's handball
could have seen Everton at least draw a game with Man city wherein Liverpool could have won the league.
The hilarious thing is that we haven't even mentioned the red, and first Jota yellow card, errors in this. What a complete and utter shambles...
Baffles me how cowardly they were in order to re right their wrong after realising the fuck up, they have such a lack of passion
It was Micheal Oliver who was saying delay the game! Operator was just telling what he was saying. So Oliver was trying to stop the game! Being a top ref, he knew what needs to be done! VAR just scrapped it
Nah bruv - you're right. someone should have had the balls to stop that shit. keep doing what you do.
The only way to solve this mistake is to give the Goal to Liverpool, re-call the game at 2-2 and each team should take a point.
So, now we have the equivalent of the Zupruder film for football. Having listened to the audio now, overlayed with the images there are two key things that occur that influence the outcome.These are indeed root causes for the failure and are in fact psychological rather than the failure of any system or protocol implemented beforehand. If you listen very carefully to the audio, you can hear the Assistant referee say “Give it” as Diaz scores. This sets up the idea that the on field decision is to allow the goal. What is lost at this point is the image from the broadcast of the assistant referee raising his flag. The VAR were at this time verifying as quickly as possible that the goal was legitimate, still under the impression that as the Assistant referee had said “Give it” they were effectively rubber stamping the goal. There is obviously a lot of pressure on the VAR official to expedite decisions to allow the game to flow more quickly. This “Need for Speed” has also been amplified by the introduction of increased additional time at the end of each half this season. The images shown during the VAR check of the final pass also confirm this. Diaz is so clearly onside that they fail to even consider that he has been flagged as offside. Normally in these situations, the Assistant referee does not flag until the move is complete. There is ambiguity around the use of “Give it” as the communication from the Assistant referee, give what exactly? Seeing as the Assistant referee’s job is to give “Offside” information then this is what he means. He is not in a position to give a goal, only the referee can do this. The VAR may have believed that it was the referee who said “Give it” over the audio. When looking into “Accidents” forensically, it is quite common to try to find failures of systems or protocols that were there to either prevent or arrest an issue from escalating to an undesirable outcome. Here we have a route cause that is psychological rather than practical. There is in fact too much communication and information being exchanged between persons who are communicating not in broad and natural language, but are trying to do so with the use of terms dictated by protocols. Finally, the saddest psychological aspect of this whole affair is the relationship between the Video operator and the VAR. The VAR is a referee, he is used to his word being law. He has spent his career ignoring the opinion of “Non-officials” during a match. He would have simply ignored the protestations of the Video operator as he was not an official and does not even feature in the hierarchy surrounding the officiating of the game. It is the Video operator’s voice which is the voice of reason sounding out over the end of the clip. “Delay the game” he implores, only to be ignored by those who are behaving as they have been conditioned and trained to do by ignoring him. I believe that this issue would not have occurred had the there been no VAR present. If the onfield referee had been shown the images on the pitchside monitor while in communication with the Video operator and assistant referee in Stockley park then you would have removed the possibility of there being a “Significant human error” from the equation. In my work, I have often found that route cause analysis comes down to a single point of failure. That the people involved were under pressure to deliver results when they were time constrained, and or under pressure to produce results. This only ever leads to a single eventual outcome. The wrong decision reached too quickly.
The solution is not to abolish VAR, but to make it more intense, more automated, more automatic, so that decisions can be made more accurately, more quickly, and more automatically.
Wow fair play to you Rory. You couldn’t be more spot on these days with pretty much every view you give. Especially this. Respect to you
Humans make a mistake, and you're all calling for the VAR system to be abolished. If it was implemented correctly, the correct decision would have been made! We need a TMO style system like in rugby where fans can hear everything that's going on and the refs are recorded for the whole game!
They were still jet-lagged from moonlighting in the UAE Pro League a couple of days earlier.
As an arsenal fan who was screwed out of a league title by VAR corruption last year. I can only sympathise with liverpool.
It’s crazy they didn’t even tell the on field referee 🤦♂️
“Full-time dedicated VAR assistant referees are on a £30k retainer as well as £850 per game fee” equalling 50-60k a year. Imagine being a glorified security guard, earning £850 for two hours work , let alone 30 k no matter what
Leicester fan here - We've got Darren England reffing our top vs 3rd Championship match tonight....
Rory ypure a great talker and expressionalist
What?
He sounds like a school kid trying to buff out his word count. He could make his point with about 50%less words but he doesn't have anything interesting enough to say for that
This is only such a big deal because it's Liverpool, the favorite child. Errors happen, roll with it.
Calling for changing of scorelines retroactively and having rematches is a bigger evil than a referee wrong call because it sets a precedent and ruins the game where it doesn't really end after the final whistle
There is a difference between human error and gross negligence. What happened was gross negligence by every single one of the officials involved, especially given that it was clear to every one of them that the wrong decision had been made before half time. Nothing was said about it until a pathetic statement after the game that clearly sought to sweep the matter under the carpet by blaming it on “human error”. Basically saying “oops, my bad!”
wha'ts intriguing is that the whole idea of having VAR in the top leagues is to reduce the human error to the minimum, yet we still see it almost in every match. maybe someone doesn't like obvjectivity in football and they want to get rid of it which would be the end of the sport in my eyes, it's the final proof that football is dirty and fixed to the core
I'm sick of hearing "scrap VAR". Of course it's not perfect but it would much much worse without it. We'd end up having 3x as many errors and then have even more videos like this, except instead it'd be complaining about the on-field referees. Rory tearing down some human beings he doesn't even know, doesn't know what is going on in their lives etc. It's a pretty shocking mistake but this is too far. It is shameful to start attacking people in this manner.
I agree