That Replay Operator needs to be applauded too. He tried telling them to stop but they refused. The dude asked them several times "Are you sure about the decision?" "Oli's is saying stop the match" repeatedly... But they ignored him. Whoever he is deserves some plaudits
The even funnier things is the guy that was switched on is a Dutch guy. English is not his first language. He doesn't even usually speak, he is a computer system engineer I think.
Salah’s goal contribution streak ended cause of that. Liverpool had the longest unbeaten streak across all of Europe too and it changed the game. They’ve also lost the league by 1 point twice so the margins are so so so fine. Huge pity but Liverpool getting involved and putting out their statement about wanting a review is good because it’s clear the communication is not clear and that will change. I believe yesterday during the Chelsea game, the goal checked was said “check complete - goal” so changes are already coming. Maybe will even add a rule that adds game can be stopped for extraordinary circumstances like that.
It's like saying "ah I can't save that child from that burning building because I would have to J-walk across this road to get to them" Purely moronic. Entirely excuse.
Just an observation. The original PGMOL story is BS. Right after the goal was scored, the ref said: "Coming back to the offside mate". The VAR guy followed up with "checking the offside"! Event the top banner on their monitor was saying "Checking disallowed goal". They KNEW that the call was offside. And they followed up with "check complete". Meaning they've validated the offside call after determining that the goal was valid. Twilight zone.
The rule states that you can’t stop the game once it’s restarted for a review. In this case it’s not being stopped for a review it should have been stopped because they got the review wrong. That’s a different thing altogether. A wrong was made by VAR and they should have put it right by awarding the goal.
First person I’ve seen to make this point, excellent 🤝🏼👌🏼. In the rules of the game this technically gives Liverpool weight to take legal action / demand either points or replay as it’s a misinterpretation of the law. Misinterpretation of the law is the only avenue they could take and this allows it. (Spurs fan, I don’t want to go on and win the title by 1 point - only for it to forever be a gift / chocolate trophy as our first one).
Dan cook CLEARLY said "He was off, He played him off, The goal was offside". They CLEARLY knew that the onfield decision was OFFSIDE. There was NO MISUNDERSTANDING.
That's what I'm saying too. The top banner on their screen was sayin in big bold letters: "CHECKING DISALLOWED GOAL". PGMOL caught with their pants down. Now this is law suit material.
Not only do you hear the ref say it was offside, you can also hear the linesman say he was calling it back for offside. The only way those in the VAR could have missed that is if they were not watching the game.
The AR also clearly communicated "Delaying, delaying" BEFORE the play was over, which is only said when the AR is delaying the offside flag. VAR knew what he was doing, so now we need an audio for all the red cards that were issued and how the VAR influenced the ref decision about them.
I'm so glad the majority of fans are supporting Liverpool with regards to putting the pressure on the PGMOL. We need to continue to scrutinize their process everytime they make a bad mistake until they can consistently come to the best decision using common sense
Sky likes to call it a mistake. No it was pure incompetence. Clearly VAR was not watching the game. They should be punished hard not with 1 week break from the games.
Not them, whatever kind of buffoons are the so called “VAR “and “assistant VAR” the boss tops them. Howard Webb is simply not good enough for the position.
It wasn't just the goal rulled offside. All decisions in the game didn't go Liverpools way. So many yellows. Some that weren't even yellows. The yellow card that was turned into a red by VAR. The whole game was shocking.
@@neamnervi apart from the words, sure. I've not heard a single pundit say they actually have a problem with the red, simply that they understand there was no real malice and would've liked to see a yellow for the sake of the game if nothing else. But they all understand exactly why it was red. That could've easily broken his leg, and intent or not you'd be daft to not think that it a) wasn't dangerous, or b) couldn't be fairly considered a red
Like all LFC fans you forget that your goal should not have happened because the free kick that led to it was never a foul. But silly me, what am I talking about, I should know that it is only decisions that go against you that count.
absolutely they turn Jone's yellow to red but do not get rid ofJota's first yellow. This is not mistake It is corruption .The referees did these on purpose
The FA were offered the automatic offside tech and turned it down... Im a Spurs fan too, and I would rather Liverpool awarded the draw or we replay the game than have this nonsense we are going through right now
@the.penalty_spot4yeh but he shouldn’t have made that silly 2nd challenge on a yellow. That’s happened every game where players are harshly booked. Both reds for me.
PGMOL lied. They said the VAR team thought the on pitch decision was a goal. The audio clearly states that the VAR team were checking for offside and STILL GOT IT WRONG. Useless or corrupt or both
I mean, they always do that in the other clips also. They go through each instance that could overrule the goal. Checking for offside, checking for foul, Checking for handball. They use that language regardless.
It's funny how the whole ENTIRE WORLD that watched the game saw that it wasn't offside ,everyone saw it except the ppl that are trained n paid to watch the game n make the correct call
Honestly, it's absolutely disgusting. Combined with the shocking officiating on the pitch also, it's just very difficult to believe that this is all just honest mistakes. Whether it's them all protecting each other as mates, or it goes as far as corruption and bias, the whole thing absolutely stinks. Liverpool need to sue the PGMOL for financial losses, Howard Webb needs to resign, Darren England and Simon Hooper all need to be removed from the EPL roster, and the FA needs to seek an alternative to the PGMOL. They have proven for the last few years they cannot implement VAR effectively; their knowledge of the game appears to be impractical; and their whole attitude is arrogant and appalling.
Head in the sand attitude is what makes PGMOL continue to get away with this corruption. It wasn't a mistake! How much is that error worth? Salah breaks the record he jointly holds with beckham and Haaland, Liverpool definitely dont lose that game, Final standings with respect to where Tottenham finish with the aid of that result, and how it disadvantages their competition, and Liverpools final log standings? Possibly the red to Jotta doesn't happen, as he maybe doesn't need to come on as a sub if LFc are leading at halftime. Like seriously, how do you score 2 legit goals and end up losing 2-1,? unfathomable!!!
Referee and assistant referee and fourth official can not arrive at the right decision. After deciding it must be the final decision. Dissatisfaction must be taken up against the officials. VAR already remove the intrique, passion of the game.
It's the people above them that should be fired judging by the reaction of them getting it wrong they probably feel they will 'lose' there job either way whether they go against the 'law' or make a mistake
@@nyoj24It is that deep. This is about as gross a level of incompetence in this job as you can possibly get and anyone else in any other field would lose their job immediately. Whether a life is affected is irrelevant to the fact.
"If the game cannot be replayed" Like it's even up for discussion. Only an entitled Liverpool supporter could think along those lines. How about they replay the CL final?
@@mikezappa I am not a Liverpool supporter. I am a football supporter. 8 people made a mistake and did nothing about it to correct it. 4 in the VAR room and 4 on the pitch.
I am a Liverpool supporter and the game will not be replayed and should not be replayed. This is about trying to understand how and why this mistake was made and for it not too happen again to any club. It's about football not an individual club.
Sissoko handled that ball , even Stevie Wonder saw that😂 Spurs are finishing behind Liverpool this season no doubt about it , and they will win nothing as usual
The referees could have taken ownership, accept their mistake by delaying the game after the restart and given the goal. Sure, it is technically against law, but how many times have you heard referees gone on about 'managing games' - code for not following the laws - as in, not given yellow cards in the 1st minute although they would have given a yellow card for the same offense in the 75th minute. It seems to me the officials were far more concerned about protecting their jobs than taking ownership and showing leadership in preserving the integrity of the game.
If its technically against the laws, then the refs cant do anything. Doesnt matter if there's an obvious solution, once the game restarted there was nothing the refs could do. The solution is to change the rules so that if there is an obvious mistake, the refs can correct it.
@bipolarminddroppings Referees 'mend' the laws all the time. How many times have you seen a referee stop the game while the ball is still in play to speak with a manager or stop corner that had already been taken to speak with the players in the box. 'Technically', the laws of the game do not allow them to do that, but they do that. At the end of the day, they were far more concerned with potentially being told off, than preserving the integrity of the game.
The Laws of the Game give us contradictory answers all the time. Defender and striker are wrestling, and the ball goes in the net. Free kick? Penalty Kick? Goal? The Laws give us contradictions, and it is the referees job to sort out the contradictions by the spirit of the game. The restart was incorrect. The Law offer contradictions about what to do.
As a fan of football. This is 9/11 in the football world that happened to Liverpool. I will never forget it for as long as I live. I wholeheartedly think that the game should be replayed to bring justice to both teams and fans around the world. It must be replayed!
We need actions, not apologies. Without compensation, the entire Premier League is compromised. It's a disgrace. We can't go on about being the best league in the world, if we can't even give fair results.
There’s clearly something going on with Liverpool, 5 red cards in the first 7 games of the season and nonsense like this on top of it, the credibility of the sport is being called into question here
@@David-qy7sb 5 annual fair play awards in a row under klopp, somehow this season they already have as many red cards as the worst ranked team in the league from last season (the whole of last season!), mo salah seems to have to be a victim of gbh to get a free kick these days too and Liverpool went 12 months without getting a penalty between 2022 and 2023 also. It all started when Howard Webb took over, everyone knows it
It’s crazy they were pushing it to move so quick when the same day, they spent 3 minutes checking an Everton goal. Just take as long as you need to make sure it’s right. It took less than 30 seconds.
Man United game was over and they got penalty after final whistle. I’ve seen Arsenal give Sheffield United a replay. This is a farce . I can’t do anything my arse, they could have delayed game if they wanted to but just chose not to
The fact that the one person in the room that isn’t a referee was the one who noticed the error says it all. Absolute incompetency, it has to change. Can’t stop it because “that’s the law”, they already broke the laws by not giving Liverpool a legitimate goal.
England had no idea what was happening at any moment until it was too late. It was the operator who flagged it continuously. Michael Oliver (4th official) also noticed it but I do not understand while he could tell the ref to not restart. Why 4th official had to relay the message to VAR and then VAR to the ref? VAR and AVAR were in their own world. I want to know what were they doing? They had zero awareness of the circumstances.
In the audio, they are told that "Oli says we must delay". Oli is their boss. Their boss is telling them to bugger the rules, intervene, stop the game, and give the goal. But yet they choose to continue. If things goes sideways because it's against the rules, they can always pin that on their boss.
There is a difference between human error and gross negligence. What happened was gross negligence by every single one of the officials involved, especially given that it was clear to every one of them that the wrong decision had been made before half time. Nothing was said about it until a 😢 statement after the game that clearly sought to sweep the matter under the carpet by blaming it on “human error”. Basically saying “oops, my bad!”
It’s human error in communications that don’t prevent errors from being spotted. The problem isn’t the officials, human error is inevitable, you can say oh but it shouldn’t be this bad but it always will be. Look at airplane disasters throughout aviation history. Pilots with 10s of thousands of hours used to crash due to misunderstandings The phrases they have been taught to use are the problem In this case replace “check complete” with “check summary, Diaz is onside, check complete” Even if all of VAR have had that misunderstanding, the onfield ref instantly sees the misunderstanding or in this case receives the correct information anyway
No one is talking about the first yellow card for Jota was a massive mistake and he was only 10 yards away if var can intervene when they think it’s a red and not a yellow surely they can say that was not a yellow and rescind it things like this is destroyed what was a fantastic game
issue is refs dont face any reprocussions so they clearly dont understand how big their mistakes are. i doubt any refs feel bad for getting teams relegated, missing out on titles, top 4, because instead of being critised they're defended in that "people make mistakes", yes people make mistakes but they face reprocussions, otherwise they won't learn
absolutely what happen if you make a major mistake in work …disciplinary with possible termination…well in my book thats a huge mistake ! demotion to ref at this level …not good enough
Is anybody really surprised that VAR aren't really paying attention? Can't imagine this is the first time, just the first time they've been caught out.
Is everyone missing that even when drawing the lines it says on var screen checking disallowed goal which means that it was disallowed and they know it . Its right in front 9f him when lines are getting drawn he knew wat he was doing and they are lying and getting away with it .
Even if the rules state that the game cannot be stopped after the game is restarted, the rules also state that a point should be awarded to the team that score a goal. The moment they realised they've messed up, they can still choose between a relatively minor mess up, and a massive mess up. Unfortunately they've chosen the latter.
There is no rule saying the gane can not be stopped after it has restarted. The rule says it can not be stopped for a review after the review has already been done and the game has restarted. It didn't need to be stopped for reviewing, it only needed to be stopped for counting the goal, as is perfectly legal within the rules of the game. They obviously didn't want that.
Why can't they say it was a draw - 2-2 as both teams scored 2 goals. It's not ideal as goals change games and momentum but would be a better, fairer outcome than what we have now.
Because every club will come forward with all the examples of incorrect decision. Red cards and Goals and they wouldn't be able to do that. Errors in football happen every week for years, can't replace history but they need to enforce new rules for the future. Personally theres an international break coming up. Put in new rules and overhaul the system cause its clearly not working.
I think it's very weird how everyone is clearly sidestepping the possibility of corruption or match fixing , sounds to be like Darren England knew exactly what he was doing and was ready to face the consequences as at the time he believed he would only get a slap on the wrist , dont think he expected Liverpool to call him on his BS , he clearly speeds the check up and ensures its resumed immediately so when his error/intentional tampering is picked up he cannot stop the game.
We urgently need a rule similar to the coach’s challenge in the NFL, and none of this VAR gone wrong mess would have happened. Should have done it from the beginning.
Sure, I wouldn’t mind a challenge system in football, but this wouldn’t have prevented the mistake because the VAR officials would clearly still have been clueless as to what had been given on the pitch, so could still very well have given the same result. The fact that they weren’t paying enough attention to the game is disgraceful.
Which one is better? -Following the rules, not stopping the game saying sorry and re-write the rules a it's a precedent. -Taking overneship by stopping the game as it's a precedent.
The officials in that room were clearly not paying attention, I wonder has the fact that 48 hrs earlier they were on VAR duty in the UAE has anything to do with them being asleep......
What Jamie said about the ref going to the monitor and being told what they are to do by VAR instead of actually letting the ref look at the actual issue proves this was done on purpose. They just thought that protocol would get them saved. He made sure to say I can’t do anything. That means the VAR room told the ref to send Jones off, and purposely disallowed the goal by miscommunication. That is why he ignored what Oli was saying. He waited for the ball to kick off then he suddenly heard what Oli is saying. This was done on purpose all day. The worst part is that they never let the on field ref knew until after the 2nd half starts. He purposely ignored the call to delay the game. Once the game was gone , then he suddenly start hearing what Oli is trying to get across. This was plan by VAR. Oliver and England. They thought that by claiming to follow protocol, it would have saved their skins
The least and fairest they could do is award Liverpool the point they missed out on from this mistake turning the match into a draw. No one is talking about the other two decisions that were wrong. Joneses red card and Joto`s 1st yellow. both of which were mistakes. If VAR is to really work it has to be lead by competent people who dont bow down to pressure.
This nonsense that it could cost Liverpool. Will they replay the champions league final for the horrendous penalty decision they got? This is ridiculous
@@welldoneboysgoodprocess Our talk is that Liverpool has been subjected to injustice and the referees must be prosecuted. It is not Tottenham fans who have been subjected to injustice, so be silent
i think we have to question the on field ref on this also. Once VAR said check complete, he immediately restarted the game within like 2 secs. like come on, cant u ask again for comfirmation or wait for the VAR to say check complete, its a goal/onside?
This arguments all pointless. Any1 with a brain can see the refs fixed this game. The baffling lies they put out just make it worse they say the var didn't know was offside is such an obvious lie it's shocking they think any1 believes that when they say offside themselves. The var made sure ref gave red cards to pool not 1 but 2. They made sure to cancel a perfectly good goal with no reason. The ref kept giving them cards nonstop for nothing. This is obvious fixing
You can go back at the next break in play to review and award a penalty, so going back 30 seconds to correct a blatantly wrong goal decision shouldn’t be a big deal. The fact that there wasn’t a formal communication protocol when reviewing var is reason enough to sack Howard Webb. Verify what’s being reviewed and confirm it. Effective communication lands directly at the feet of Howard Webb and he should be gone
Yes, it is still the amateur hour, with people who should know better screwing up because they are hurrying to do something simple. This kind of thing should have been ironed out during the first two seasons of VAR. Their procedures are simply crap. And this audio confirmed something I already suspected: the VAR officials are easily confused, have poor procedures, it is no wonder they get flummoxed in complicated situations with multiple things to check, and a mistake like forgetting to check if Pickford flattening Virgil in the box is a bookable offense is something that could easily happen again. They have not worked this out, at all. They are years behind the curve and scrambling to catch up.
"Player was onside. You may award the goal". There you are, fixed. That's the sort of phrasing used in rugby, as an example, and it seems that after spending millions on the technology and apparently giving exhaustive training to all the officials involved, the VAR still don't have a standard way of communicating with the referee. The VAR offical says "check complete, perfect" without saying what the result of the check was, and the ref doesn't even ask what the result was! The ref just says "Off" and blows his whistle. Talk about a screw-up just waiting to happen!
It was not one error. Both red cards were also errors. They showed the ref a still photo first and for the yellow on Jota that did not make contact at all they did not intervene. It is too many errors to let this go on.
Why is no one talking about the assistant referee (linesman) in combination with the VAR referee were preempting that it’s going to be an offside (all away back from Gomez throw in) when there was no reason or evidence for this, VAR instructed linesman to “give it” despite linesman saying “both holding” furthermore Simon Hooper addressing the VAR as “mate” and “good process”. This is solid evidence of the VAR bias against Liverpool. If every goal is reviewed by VAR, What is the point in flagging for offside, is it to curb the celebrations??? Are they so concerned about the players psyche/disappointment??
@@SpartanSoldierMikehow is it hypothetical when it’s literally been proven to be onside and is a well accepted fact even by the PGMOL? 😂 not to mention Liverpool would’ve won the game anyway
this is NOT a mistake - it is an INTEGRITY ISSUE (and sheer ARROGANCE) 1. Knowing that the goal was NOT given - the ref continued to give yellow cards to Liverpool players - not warranted - Jota's first yellow 2. The yellow given to Curtis- VAR intervene (not needed) BUT not doing their job when needed - to check 4 offside * they had one job to do - watch bloody game - you are PAID to do that - VAR should have seen the linesman raise his flag (albeit too quick) everyone can see it was NOT offside - the linesman who is the closest can't - he should be culpable in all this too. 3. Was the Red card given after the Diaz goal (if so) then this is sheer arrogance - KNOWING you've denied Liverpool a perfect goal. 4. OTT cards given 2 Liverpool players knowing a clear goal was diallowed - there should have been some leaway - knowing you've denied them their goal (SHEER ARROGANCE on Ref's part). 5. Why are the refs allowed to officiate in UAE and then 2 DAYS later officiate at high profile game> 6. the only person with integrity in the VAR room is the VAR OPERATOR asking them to check - he was clear it was a goal 7. Darren English is o quick to say "nothing can be done" he repeated too much HE DID NOT EVEN WATCH THE GAME - he DID KNOW WHAT HE WAS LOOKING AT - that is just crazy and on top of that say check complete! 8. Gakpo got hurt by Undgoie tackel he is hurt and no card for Undogie he would have been sent off 9. Undogie & Maddison telling ref to give cards and nothing for them IT IS NOT A MISTAKE IT IS SHEER ARRORANCE AND NEEDS TO FULLY AND THOROUGHLY INVESTIGATED it absolutely stinks. A lot of non Liverpools fans saying get over it... not until it happens to you. It cannot be human error EVERYWEEK - officials deciding who will win or not - it does not only happen to Liverpool Darren English DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT HE WAS CHECKING - WHY WAS HE NOT WATCHING THE GAME He's been to the UAE connections with City - and City lost - just saying! One very vexed Liverpool fan!
You’re the first sane person I’ve seen in all of this that knows it’s a communications issue. They need training like air traffic controllers and pilots do
When the ref said he couldn't stop the game, in order to fix a larger wrong, in any other walk of life he'd be called a petty jobsworth and would be rightly despised.
Yup. Nobody would want to work with him. He undermined his direct supervisor in front of the eyes of the world, by not owning up immediately and letting the person actually in charge do his best to figure it out.
Hereafter, every situation leading to a goal, please take time and examine in detail as we can add extra time later, viewers, spectators are fine to wait for a fair decision rather than being disgruntled.
I think there is more respect afforded to the refs in rugby because everyone can hear what is going on, there is transparency in the decisions and the refs explain why they made a call.
Where panic the guy was so cool about not wanting to stop the game , he doesn’t care , which this is the part that concerns , it looks like , he confidant nothing will happen to him , there is a big moral issue
Simple solution is var says onside or offside. It is a goal or it isnt a goal. This wouldn't have happened. Clearly var and the assistant var weren't watching this game.
Darren England missed the linesman flagged for offside. He missed Luis Diaz didn’t celebrate. I think everyone who watched the game saw that. He missed VAR on the screen it said ‘checking for offside’ and when tells he made a mistake and to stop the game he brushes it off and says ‘we can’t do anything ‘ . This isn’t human error. This is something more
@@elvarusbecause that’s not how misunderstandings work He thinks it was called onside, he’s not unsure he’s just misunderstood The issue is they’re trained to use phrases that aren’t misunderstanding proof like in air traffic communications Replace “check complete” with “check summary, Diaz is onside, check complete” That way even if everyone in VAR has looked for the wrong thing like here, the onfield officials can see the misunderstanding or recieve the right call anyway
Don't you guys know the difference from other common referee's mistakes? In this case, VAR referee, who is in charge of judgement of offside or onside, confirmed that it was onside but the main on-field referee canceled the goal, reportedly just by communication error, and VAR referee should have intervened and made the on-field referee undo the decision but he failed to intervene as PGMOL stated.What a disgrace! I'm a Man United fan and I think that a re-match has to be held. The match was so important because the winner of this season could've changed. Liverpool had a momentum to be placed on the 1st place of the table and they could've made it. Even if the match had ended draw, Liverpool could've been on the 2nd place. It's a huge disgrace. It should never have happened.
FFS! Just get VAR to spend some time with video refs in rugby. The communication is spot on and on field ref is in contact with TV officials. Make it clear for on field ref to make decisions
Same in cricket, the 3rd umpire is told exactly what the review is for and what the original decision is and talks through every aspect of his decision making process. Maybe the fact that the review conversations in rugby and cricket are broadcast live has something to do with it…
The PGMOL said that VAR didn’t know it was offside and but from the audio they did know and still made an error. So tried to protect and lie, so good that the audio came out.
"Just checking the offside" said Darren England, now he claims he thought the onfield decision was onside? Darren England was also the one who said "check complete" and he was the one to make the decision to let the play go on, not letting the ref decide for himself. Thats after taking a long time to realize what happened, just responding with "what?" 10 second after it being called out to him. I dont care if its corruption or incompentency, he shouldnt be anywhere near premier league matches going forward.
They broke the law showing the still picture of Jones challenge on the yellow card but could not break the rules for the goal,,rubbish..stop making excuses
1) the VAR is clearly not watching the match or not watching it very carefully. 2) the whole process is pointlessly and needlessly rushed. 3) there are either no real protocols around how communications are to occur or they are being totally ignored. Everything is waaaaaaay too casual and none of the language is standardized. 4) there are no redundancies or confirmation checks built into the protocols, or they were being blatantly ignored. How can they not see all of the blatant holes in this system? I can immediately think of a half dozen ways this could be improved from a process/communications stand point and I've never refereed a minute in my life. The whole thing is amateurish and haphazard. It's a minor miracle that it took this long for a screw up of this scale to happen given this is the standard.
It will never improve while they police themselves and do not broadcast their adjudications. Look at cricket and rugby….it works to everyone’s satisfaction. The damage has been done, goal disallowed, points lost, questionable red cards not rescinded. This has to be THE lowest point for those on and off the pitch.
The only plausible explanation for the referee's decisions in this game is that the referee was involved in match-fixing, accepting benefits to manipulate the outcome of the match. The officiating referees in the English Premier League have become uncontrollable, creating the desired results before a global audience.
The Manger needs a red flag challenge like NFL or a white card the manager could hand the fourth official to challenge the call on the field. One challenge card per game. If you challenge and it doesn’t go your way. No card for the next game. But If it goes your way, you get to keep it for another challenge. Give Liverpool the point!
*The problem was the VAR room not giving a verdict after the VAR check complete.* *The VAR check speed was fine. They don't even need to know what the on Field decision was beforehand. It's the verdict they give after the check complete that matters. It's common sense. You would think this is already the protocol.* *There should also be an unforeseen circumstances rule, where they can stop the game.*
ALL WE WANT IS CONSISTENCY IN VAR!!! the most basic thing you need! i like the idea of using the screens to show the VAR being done live to make fans more involved and wouldn't mind waiting that little bit extra for the RIGHT DECISION!
Watch the game on the whole not just Diaz goal, Jota 1st yellow was no yellow, Gomez was tackled without the ball in the Spurs box, Salah gets booked, Robbo gets book, Allison get booked we not stupid, it's more than the goal, it's Simon Hooper who had the game on hand, VAR in this case audio we all listern, iam from Cape Town SA, rubgy get it right with TMO & cricket with third empire, Hooper was on Pool case end of story watch the game and analyse the entire game Simon Hooper was the ref Here how many yellow was issued, Jones red is,debateable, again he was on Pool case, he had all the time to go check a red but could not look at all the error he made
Wasn't there a season when the final whistle went off United got a penalty after that. I am not blaming United, they have no role in it. It's just the blatant inconsistencies and negligence for which every team is suffering. Mistakes due to camera angles can still be digested but this pure negligence.
As an American, we have had video replay (VAR) for decades in our sports with no problems, but we are much more patient. Its crazy to me how impatient soccer/Premier League fans are. They constantly whistle, moan when there's even a brief stoppage, or they take a little longer to look at something. Soccer is the sport they should take the longest to look at replays because the margin for error is so tight, usually one goal is the difference. We would rather get the correct call, then the wrong one quickly. You guys should want the same.
American Football is constantly stopping and starting anyway, like rugby, so it’s less of an issue . You guys make a 1 hour game last 3 hours sometimes.
@@nickmoore385Every American sport has a replay system though with no issues (football, basketball, baseball, hockey, soccer, etc.). The NFL first used replay from 1986 to 1991 in limited form, then from 1999 to the present in its current form. Its bizarre the Premier league and soccer can't get it right when we've been using it just fine for decades. Soccer fans need to be more patient with decisions or just accept that these massive errors will happen from time to time. You can't have both.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
That Replay Operator needs to be applauded too. He tried telling them to stop but they refused. The dude asked them several times "Are you sure about the decision?" "Oli's is saying stop the match" repeatedly... But they ignored him. Whoever he is deserves some plaudits
The even funnier things is the guy that was switched on is a Dutch guy. English is not his first language. He doesn't even usually speak, he is a computer system engineer I think.
Oli is Michael Oliver who was the fourth official.
@@Delcolm No, the Oli referred here is the one the in VAR group.
Salah’s goal contribution streak ended cause of that. Liverpool had the longest unbeaten streak across all of Europe too and it changed the game. They’ve also lost the league by 1 point twice so the margins are so so so fine.
Huge pity but Liverpool getting involved and putting out their statement about wanting a review is good because it’s clear the communication is not clear and that will change. I believe yesterday during the Chelsea game, the goal checked was said “check complete - goal” so changes are already coming.
Maybe will even add a rule that adds game can be stopped for extraordinary circumstances like that.
I see! I now know why Hillsborough disaster had happend. It is a WHOLE WORLD against the humblest football club
£250.000 fine and two months ban? Didn't theyjust fleece Klopp for £100.000 for being honest and a two game ban?
How much did gamblers lose ? Where’s the fairness in this English game ?
@@androsc1418the gamblers shouldn't have bet on the losing team 🤷♂️
Klopp needs a refund
@peopletalkuttergarbage lower leagues don't deserve crappy refs either
They are protected from any criticism by handing out fines to shut people up, ESPECIALLY when those people are RIGHT.
Laws of the game say it’s a goal, so why did the rules only matter when they couldn’t stop game??? I’d love to ask var officials that question
It's like saying "ah I can't save that child from that burning building because I would have to J-walk across this road to get to them"
Purely moronic. Entirely excuse.
Just an observation. The original PGMOL story is BS. Right after the goal was scored, the ref said: "Coming back to the offside mate". The VAR guy followed up with "checking the offside"! Event the top banner on their monitor was saying "Checking disallowed goal". They KNEW that the call was offside. And they followed up with "check complete". Meaning they've validated the offside call after determining that the goal was valid. Twilight zone.
This. The pedaling of 'mistake' is smoke and mirrors. They KNEW it (the onfield decision) was offside, the audio said so.
This... exactly this... Liverpool are going to eat them for breakfast
also, the fact that the fans and players weren't celebrating a goal is even more obvious the on field decision was offside..
Too busy partying in the middle east 48 hours before the game. The VAR refs were in the middle east officiating 48 hours before.
Come one man, you could hear the man discombobulated can't put to words together, i really believe he was having a rough day and he messed up badly!
The rule states that you can’t stop the game once it’s restarted for a review.
In this case it’s not being stopped for a review it should have been stopped because they got the review wrong.
That’s a different thing altogether.
A wrong was made by VAR and they should have put it right by awarding the goal.
That’s how you know it is corruption. The media are in on it because the only one asking important smart questions are the fans. It tells….
The ball went out when VAR was saying he can't do anything. They couldve told the ref then, but they didn't because its clear matchfixing
Salty, salty, salty.
@@CanarinhoGunner100% wonder if liverpool take this further
First person I’ve seen to make this point, excellent 🤝🏼👌🏼. In the rules of the game this technically gives Liverpool weight to take legal action / demand either points or replay as it’s a misinterpretation of the law. Misinterpretation of the law is the only avenue they could take and this allows it. (Spurs fan, I don’t want to go on and win the title by 1 point - only for it to forever be a gift / chocolate trophy as our first one).
Dan cook CLEARLY said "He was off, He played him off, The goal was offside". They CLEARLY knew that the onfield decision was OFFSIDE. There was NO MISUNDERSTANDING.
This fact is deliberately being overlooked by every media outlet. They lied in their initial explanation
That's what I'm saying too. The top banner on their screen was sayin in big bold letters: "CHECKING DISALLOWED GOAL". PGMOL caught with their pants down. Now this is law suit material.
@@Cezanniusexactly what’s wrong with modern football more drama and lawsuit then playing football.
Not only do you hear the ref say it was offside, you can also hear the linesman say he was calling it back for offside. The only way those in the VAR could have missed that is if they were not watching the game.
The AR also clearly communicated "Delaying, delaying" BEFORE the play was over, which is only said when the AR is delaying the offside flag. VAR knew what he was doing, so now we need an audio for all the red cards that were issued and how the VAR influenced the ref decision about them.
SKY chose not to show the replay/image of the incident immediately after the disallowed goal. There’s things running deeper than what’s being shown.
"Somehting has to change" = nothing will really change 🙄
Only way we can force a change is through boycott.
It will - now every VAR check will take even longer. It's already bad enough as a fan at the game with no idea what's going on.
Much like everything else in this country 🤣
Nah it is gonna change. With this evidence Liverpool can now file a lawsuit
Petition
I'm so glad the majority of fans are supporting Liverpool with regards to putting the pressure on the PGMOL. We need to continue to scrutinize their process everytime they make a bad mistake until they can consistently come to the best decision using common sense
Sky likes to call it a mistake. No it was pure incompetence. Clearly VAR was not watching the game. They should be punished hard not with 1 week break from the games.
It’s Not Incompetence. This smells so very Corrupted.
What would you say?
Prison?
Death sentence?
Get over it.
@@randyschwagginsDarren England fired & live audio feed into VAR for the public. Simple.
Not them, whatever kind of buffoons are the so called “VAR “and “assistant VAR” the boss tops them. Howard Webb is simply not good enough for the position.
remainder of season suspension more like, on sick pay nothing more nothing less.
It wasn't just the goal rulled offside. All decisions in the game didn't go Liverpools way. So many yellows. Some that weren't even yellows. The yellow card that was turned into a red by VAR. The whole game was shocking.
Absolutely correct!
That’s why it is cheating and corruption. There’s pattern to it….
@@neamnervi apart from the words, sure. I've not heard a single pundit say they actually have a problem with the red, simply that they understand there was no real malice and would've liked to see a yellow for the sake of the game if nothing else. But they all understand exactly why it was red. That could've easily broken his leg, and intent or not you'd be daft to not think that it a) wasn't dangerous, or b) couldn't be fairly considered a red
Like all LFC fans you forget that your goal should not have happened because the free kick that led to it was never a foul. But silly me, what am I talking about, I should know that it is only decisions that go against you that count.
absolutely they turn Jone's yellow to red but do not get rid ofJota's first yellow. This is not mistake It is corruption .The referees did these on purpose
The inconsistency of VAR is outrageous and worrying. It needs to get sorted out urgently
and they all benefit city magically. Decisions against Liverpool, Manchester United and Arsenal every time it gets close. Very suspicious.
Respect mate
Arguable yellow cards are ten- a - penny, it is the second yellow that counts and that was stonewall.
The FA were offered the automatic offside tech and turned it down...
Im a Spurs fan too, and I would rather Liverpool awarded the draw or we replay the game than have this nonsense we are going through right now
@the.penalty_spot4yeh but he shouldn’t have made that silly 2nd challenge on a yellow. That’s happened every game where players are harshly booked. Both reds for me.
PGMOL lied. They said the VAR team thought the on pitch decision was a goal. The audio clearly states that the VAR team were checking for offside and STILL GOT IT WRONG. Useless or corrupt or both
You know what howard webb is...
I mean, they always do that in the other clips also. They go through each instance that could overrule the goal. Checking for offside, checking for foul, Checking for handball. They use that language regardless.
Mate that’s clearly what the audio shows happened
Referee England says "Just checking the offisde, delay, delay...". . He clearly knew what the onfield judgement was....
Every goal is checked for offside even if it's not given by the linesman
It's funny how the whole ENTIRE WORLD that watched the game saw that it wasn't offside ,everyone saw it except the ppl that are trained n paid to watch the game n make the correct call
That’s why it is nothing but corruption.
The match was fixed.
@@jaredblue8823 the more n more I listen the audio I starting to believe so
They saw that it was onside, the issue was a misunderstanding and that they’ve been trained to use phrases that aren’t misunderstanding proof
Darren England didn't even notice that the game had restarted form a free kick! He had to be told!!!!!
sorry..only the replay operator were awake...both darren n dan seems busy on sth or fell into sleep
I mean he had about 20 seconds to stop it but they are robots.
To busy playing magic kingdom on his phone
All bull they where fixing the game its obvious. Put em in front of a judge they will crumble
Assistant VAR deliberately mislead him from start to finish.
Honestly, it's absolutely disgusting. Combined with the shocking officiating on the pitch also, it's just very difficult to believe that this is all just honest mistakes. Whether it's them all protecting each other as mates, or it goes as far as corruption and bias, the whole thing absolutely stinks.
Liverpool need to sue the PGMOL for financial losses, Howard Webb needs to resign, Darren England and Simon Hooper all need to be removed from the EPL roster, and the FA needs to seek an alternative to the PGMOL. They have proven for the last few years they cannot implement VAR effectively; their knowledge of the game appears to be impractical; and their whole attitude is arrogant and appalling.
LiVARpool denied a goal - an Error,portrayed as Corruption
Casemiro leg breaker on Akanji ignored - Corruption,dismissed as Error
No?🤔
Howard Webb has always been a corrupt Individual,
I'm sick to my stomach
Head in the sand attitude is what makes PGMOL continue to get away with this corruption. It wasn't a mistake! How much is that error worth? Salah breaks the record he jointly holds with beckham and Haaland, Liverpool definitely dont lose that game, Final standings with respect to where Tottenham finish with the aid of that result, and how it disadvantages their competition, and Liverpools final log standings? Possibly the red to Jotta doesn't happen, as he maybe doesn't need to come on as a sub if LFc are leading at halftime. Like seriously, how do you score 2 legit goals and end up losing 2-1,? unfathomable!!!
Referee and assistant referee and fourth official can not arrive at the right decision. After deciding it must be the final decision. Dissatisfaction must be taken up against the officials. VAR already remove the intrique, passion of the game.
Agree it's not just Daiz goal Hooper is to Blame in how he officiated the game with his decisions
I want them fired. It’s the only way we can show that a call like this is unacceptable!
I was Diaz's Goal awarded. F the rules.
It's the people above them that should be fired judging by the reaction of them getting it wrong they probably feel they will 'lose' there job either way whether they go against the 'law' or make a mistake
lmao it aint that deep fam it doesnt even affect your life
That won't solve anything as it's using people as scapegoats
We need a complete overhaul of the ref system
@@nyoj24It is that deep. This is about as gross a level of incompetence in this job as you can possibly get and anyone else in any other field would lose their job immediately. Whether a life is affected is irrelevant to the fact.
If the game cannot be replayed then the goal should be awarded to Liverpool even now.
"If the game cannot be replayed" Like it's even up for discussion. Only an entitled Liverpool supporter could think along those lines. How about they replay the CL final?
@@mikezappa I am not a Liverpool supporter. I am a football supporter. 8 people made a mistake and did nothing about it to correct it. 4 in the VAR room and 4 on the pitch.
I am a Liverpool supporter and the game will not be replayed and should not be replayed.
This is about trying to understand how and why this mistake was made and for it not too happen again to any club. It's about football not an individual club.
@@mikezappaCL final was an error? Or consideration of Ref? Same or different?
Sissoko handled that ball , even Stevie Wonder saw that😂 Spurs are finishing behind Liverpool this season no doubt about it , and they will win nothing as usual
The referees could have taken ownership, accept their mistake by delaying the game after the restart and given the goal. Sure, it is technically against law, but how many times have you heard referees gone on about 'managing games' - code for not following the laws - as in, not given yellow cards in the 1st minute although they would have given a yellow card for the same offense in the 75th minute. It seems to me the officials were far more concerned about protecting their jobs than taking ownership and showing leadership in preserving the integrity of the game.
If its technically against the laws, then the refs cant do anything. Doesnt matter if there's an obvious solution, once the game restarted there was nothing the refs could do.
The solution is to change the rules so that if there is an obvious mistake, the refs can correct it.
werent against the laws of the game when man utd got a penalty after full time to go on and score it and draw a match
@bipolarminddroppings Referees 'mend' the laws all the time. How many times have you seen a referee stop the game while the ball is still in play to speak with a manager or stop corner that had already been taken to speak with the players in the box. 'Technically', the laws of the game do not allow them to do that, but they do that. At the end of the day, they were far more concerned with potentially being told off, than preserving the integrity of the game.
I have seen plenty of time game stopped for VAR decision. Please not buying this bs new rule explanation. Fire them all.
The Laws of the Game give us contradictory answers all the time. Defender and striker are wrestling, and the ball goes in the net. Free kick? Penalty Kick? Goal? The Laws give us contradictions, and it is the referees job to sort out the contradictions by the spirit of the game.
The restart was incorrect. The Law offer contradictions about what to do.
As a fan of football. This is 9/11 in the football world that happened to Liverpool. I will never forget it for as long as I live. I wholeheartedly think that the game should be replayed to bring justice to both teams and fans around the world. It must be replayed!
They didn't need to stop the game, they just had to count the f*ng goal
We need actions, not apologies. Without compensation, the entire Premier League is compromised. It's a disgrace. We can't go on about being the best league in the world, if we can't even give fair results.
Richest league in the world
There’s clearly something going on with Liverpool, 5 red cards in the first 7 games of the season and nonsense like this on top of it, the credibility of the sport is being called into question here
Also considering the fact that Liverpool has won multiple Fair Play awards in the Premier League under Jurgen Klopp.
@@David-qy7sb Poor old Liverpool never ever get the run of play,!!!
@@David-qy7sb 5 annual fair play awards in a row under klopp, somehow this season they already have as many red cards as the worst ranked team in the league from last season (the whole of last season!), mo salah seems to have to be a victim of gbh to get a free kick these days too and Liverpool went 12 months without getting a penalty between 2022 and 2023 also. It all started when Howard Webb took over, everyone knows it
We got 4 reds in 7 games. The last time we got 4 reds cards it took us 168 games
It’s crazy they were pushing it to move so quick when the same day, they spent 3 minutes checking an Everton goal. Just take as long as you need to make sure it’s right. It took less than 30 seconds.
One can't accept this. It's unacceptable. Something has to be given to Liverpool as compensation.
What about Spurs ? That was a rare summer.
It's not about something being given to Liverpool, though. The system needs to be fixed. This isn't just about LFC
Y'all need to stop with this nonsense point. The game is over, the only thing they Will be given is a bogus explanation
Man United game was over and they got penalty after final whistle. I’ve seen Arsenal give Sheffield United a replay. This is a farce . I can’t do anything my arse, they could have delayed game if they wanted to but just chose not to
And let’s replay the UCL final after that ridiculous penalty. I don’t recall LFC saying anything about that, and it was 100x more valuable.
The fact that the one person in the room that isn’t a referee was the one who noticed the error says it all. Absolute incompetency, it has to change. Can’t stop it because “that’s the law”, they already broke the laws by not giving Liverpool a legitimate goal.
England had no idea what was happening at any moment until it was too late. It was the operator who flagged it continuously. Michael Oliver (4th official) also noticed it but I do not understand while he could tell the ref to not restart. Why 4th official had to relay the message to VAR and then VAR to the ref? VAR and AVAR were in their own world. I want to know what were they doing? They had zero awareness of the circumstances.
Some weren’t paid in Emirati Dirhams. Wonder who.
Oli wasn't Michael Oliver, a different person.
They where match fixing . Probably placing bets on liverpool getting goal chalked offside.
Corruption at the highest level 😊
@@akramebrahim1446so true 👍
In the audio, they are told that "Oli says we must delay". Oli is their boss. Their boss is telling them to bugger the rules, intervene, stop the game, and give the goal.
But yet they choose to continue. If things goes sideways because it's against the rules, they can always pin that on their boss.
It gives me hope that at least their boss has some common sense.
If anyone can make a mistake, why do the rules not allow mistakes to be corrected. The rules must change to allow a rollback for significant errors.
Exactly
That would make too much sense for people in charge
There is a difference between human error and gross negligence. What happened was gross negligence by every single one of the officials involved, especially given that it was clear to every one of them that the wrong decision had been made before half time. Nothing was said about it until a 😢 statement after the game that clearly sought to sweep the matter under the carpet by blaming it on “human error”. Basically saying “oops, my bad!”
It’s human error in communications that don’t prevent errors from being spotted. The problem isn’t the officials, human error is inevitable, you can say oh but it shouldn’t be this bad but it always will be. Look at airplane disasters throughout aviation history. Pilots with 10s of thousands of hours used to crash due to misunderstandings
The phrases they have been taught to use are the problem
In this case replace “check complete” with “check summary, Diaz is onside, check complete”
Even if all of VAR have had that misunderstanding, the onfield ref instantly sees the misunderstanding or in this case receives the correct information anyway
No one is talking about the first yellow card for Jota was a massive mistake and he was only 10 yards away if var can intervene when they think it’s a red and not a yellow surely they can say that was not a yellow and rescind it things like this is destroyed what was a fantastic game
Why can't they do a replay???
issue is refs dont face any reprocussions so they clearly dont understand how big their mistakes are. i doubt any refs feel bad for getting teams relegated, missing out on titles, top 4, because instead of being critised they're defended in that "people make mistakes", yes people make mistakes but they face reprocussions, otherwise they won't learn
absolutely what happen if you make a major mistake in work …disciplinary with possible termination…well in my book thats a huge mistake ! demotion to ref at this level …not good enough
They're untouchable, with new rules they made etc just like dictatorship
I think all referees should resign. Let Klopp and Pep be referees.
Refs do face repercussions they can be suspended for really bad decisions. This happened to the VAR team after Arsenal Brentford
@@alexojideagu are u for real? They got dropped for a while and then pgmol gave him new job as instructor or something. Get you fact right
This thing can drag for the whole season..watch this space.
The key learnings, "we should do things we should've always been doing "
Is anybody really surprised that VAR aren't really paying attention? Can't imagine this is the first time, just the first time they've been caught out.
Especially after a long flight home from the UAE very shortly before this match. Do we know how much booze they drank on the flight?
Is everyone missing that even when drawing the lines it says on var screen checking disallowed goal which means that it was disallowed and they know it . Its right in front 9f him when lines are getting drawn he knew wat he was doing and they are lying and getting away with it .
That's not wat pgmol said. They said they thought was given onside on field. Which is obvious lies.
Even if the rules state that the game cannot be stopped after the game is restarted, the rules also state that a point should be awarded to the team that score a goal.
The moment they realised they've messed up, they can still choose between a relatively minor mess up, and a massive mess up. Unfortunately they've chosen the latter.
There is no rule saying the gane can not be stopped after it has restarted. The rule says it can not be stopped for a review after the review has already been done and the game has restarted. It didn't need to be stopped for reviewing, it only needed to be stopped for counting the goal, as is perfectly legal within the rules of the game. They obviously didn't want that.
Why can't they say it was a draw - 2-2 as both teams scored 2 goals. It's not ideal as goals change games and momentum but would be a better, fairer outcome than what we have now.
What not get the pools panel to decide games whenever Liverpool lose.
Because every club will come forward with all the examples of incorrect decision. Red cards and Goals and they wouldn't be able to do that. Errors in football happen every week for years, can't replace history but they need to enforce new rules for the future. Personally theres an international break coming up. Put in new rules and overhaul the system cause its clearly not working.
@@welldoneboysgoodprocess it is fair as lfc scored a legit goal
The entire game would've played out differently from that point on if that goal had been given. We have no idea if it would have finished 2-2 or not
@@welldoneboysgoodprocess spurs players were intentionally gesturing refree to give cards
I think it's very weird how everyone is clearly sidestepping the possibility of corruption or match fixing , sounds to be like Darren England knew exactly what he was doing and was ready to face the consequences as at the time he believed he would only get a slap on the wrist , dont think he expected Liverpool to call him on his BS , he clearly speeds the check up and ensures its resumed immediately so when his error/intentional tampering is picked up he cannot stop the game.
We urgently need a rule similar to the coach’s challenge in the NFL, and none of this VAR gone wrong mess would have happened. Should have done it from the beginning.
They have a challenge law in cricket as well.
Imagine Klopp tossing the ref flag onto the field to stop the game for a review 😂 thatd be awesome
nba to works very well
@@nhd6128🤣🤣🤣🤣
Sure, I wouldn’t mind a challenge system in football, but this wouldn’t have prevented the mistake because the VAR officials would clearly still have been clueless as to what had been given on the pitch, so could still very well have given the same result. The fact that they weren’t paying enough attention to the game is disgraceful.
Which one is better?
-Following the rules, not stopping the game saying sorry and re-write the rules a it's a precedent.
-Taking overneship by stopping the game as it's a precedent.
i want to see the footage of the VAR room , were they watching ???????
The officials in that room were clearly not paying attention, I wonder has the fact that 48 hrs earlier they were on VAR duty in the UAE has anything to do with them being asleep......
Common sense says to sack Darren England. That was entirely his doing. He is not fit to be a premiere league referee in any way shape or form.
What Jamie said about the ref going to the monitor and being told what they are to do by VAR instead of actually letting the ref look at the actual issue proves this was done on purpose. They just thought that protocol would get them saved. He made sure to say I can’t do anything. That means the VAR room told the ref to send Jones off, and purposely disallowed the goal by miscommunication. That is why he ignored what Oli was saying. He waited for the ball to kick off then he suddenly heard what Oli is saying. This was done on purpose all day. The worst part is that they never let the on field ref knew until after the 2nd half starts. He purposely ignored the call to delay the game. Once the game was gone , then he suddenly start hearing what Oli is trying to get across. This was plan by VAR. Oliver and England. They thought that by claiming to follow protocol, it would have saved their skins
The least and fairest they could do is award Liverpool the point they missed out on from this mistake turning the match into a draw. No one is talking about the other two decisions that were wrong. Joneses red card and Joto`s 1st yellow. both of which were mistakes. If VAR is to really work it has to be lead by competent people who dont bow down to pressure.
@@welldoneboysgoodprocess
What he said is true: Liverpool were wronged and lost three points
The red card for Jones is extremely subjective. Can definitely understand why they gave it
This nonsense that it could cost Liverpool. Will they replay the champions league final for the horrendous penalty decision they got? This is ridiculous
@@welldoneboysgoodprocess
Our talk is that Liverpool has been subjected to injustice and the referees must be prosecuted. It is not Tottenham fans who have been subjected to injustice, so be silent
@@mexrider1it was reviewed and given idk what u saying
i think we have to question the on field ref on this also. Once VAR said check complete, he immediately restarted the game within like 2 secs. like come on, cant u ask again for comfirmation or wait for the VAR to say check complete, its a goal/onside?
This arguments all pointless. Any1 with a brain can see the refs fixed this game. The baffling lies they put out just make it worse they say the var didn't know was offside is such an obvious lie it's shocking they think any1 believes that when they say offside themselves. The var made sure ref gave red cards to pool not 1 but 2. They made sure to cancel a perfectly good goal with no reason. The ref kept giving them cards nonstop for nothing. This is obvious fixing
This panel were the only honest people who have discussed the topic at hand
But Gary Never was in that panel.
You can go back at the next break in play to review and award a penalty, so going back 30 seconds to correct a blatantly wrong goal decision shouldn’t be a big deal. The fact that there wasn’t a formal communication protocol when reviewing var is reason enough to sack Howard Webb. Verify what’s being reviewed and confirm it. Effective communication lands directly at the feet of Howard Webb and he should be gone
Yes, it is still the amateur hour, with people who should know better screwing up because they are hurrying to do something simple. This kind of thing should have been ironed out during the first two seasons of VAR. Their procedures are simply crap.
And this audio confirmed something I already suspected: the VAR officials are easily confused, have poor procedures, it is no wonder they get flummoxed in complicated situations with multiple things to check, and a mistake like forgetting to check if Pickford flattening Virgil in the box is a bookable offense is something that could easily happen again.
They have not worked this out, at all. They are years behind the curve and scrambling to catch up.
2-2 draw 1 point each...or re-match
"Player was onside. You may award the goal". There you are, fixed. That's the sort of phrasing used in rugby, as an example, and it seems that after spending millions on the technology and apparently giving exhaustive training to all the officials involved, the VAR still don't have a standard way of communicating with the referee. The VAR offical says "check complete, perfect" without saying what the result of the check was, and the ref doesn't even ask what the result was! The ref just says "Off" and blows his whistle. Talk about a screw-up just waiting to happen!
It was not one error. Both red cards were also errors. They showed the ref a still photo first and for the yellow on Jota that did not make contact at all they did not intervene. It is too many errors to let this go on.
The panel is right, had they took the initiative and awarded the goal, they would have been applauded rather than disciplined.
So they cant stop the game when play continues for a mistake but they can stop them to give penalties minutes later in other games. WOW, JUST WOW
Why is no one talking about the assistant referee (linesman) in combination with the VAR referee were preempting that it’s going to be an offside (all away back from Gomez throw in) when there was no reason or evidence for this, VAR instructed linesman to “give it” despite linesman saying “both holding” furthermore Simon Hooper addressing the VAR as “mate” and “good process”. This is solid evidence of the VAR bias against Liverpool.
If every goal is reviewed by VAR, What is the point in flagging for offside, is it to curb the celebrations??? Are they so concerned about the players psyche/disappointment??
This is unacceptable! They should've award Diaz's goal and a point to Liverpool
Why should Liverpool get a point? They didn't draw the game, they lost, and you can't reward them based on hypotheticals.
They should replay the game. If Diaz's goal had stood spurs weren't going down the other end and scoring end of. We would probably have won that game.
@@SpartanSoldierMike they ```DID```` draw the game, it was onside, it was a goal therefore 2-2
@@SpartanSoldierMikehow is it hypothetical when it’s literally been proven to be onside and is a well accepted fact even by the PGMOL? 😂 not to mention Liverpool would’ve won the game anyway
a replay of the game would be fair….
this is NOT a mistake - it is an INTEGRITY ISSUE (and sheer ARROGANCE)
1. Knowing that the goal was NOT given - the ref continued to give yellow cards to Liverpool players - not warranted - Jota's first yellow
2. The yellow given to Curtis- VAR intervene (not needed) BUT not doing their job when needed - to check 4 offside
* they had one job to do - watch bloody game - you are PAID to do that - VAR should have seen the linesman raise his flag (albeit too quick) everyone can see it was NOT offside - the linesman who is the closest can't - he should be culpable in all this too.
3. Was the Red card given after the Diaz goal (if so) then this is sheer arrogance - KNOWING you've denied Liverpool a perfect goal.
4. OTT cards given 2 Liverpool players knowing a clear goal was diallowed - there should have been some leaway - knowing you've denied them their goal (SHEER ARROGANCE on Ref's part).
5. Why are the refs allowed to officiate in UAE and then 2 DAYS later officiate at high profile game>
6. the only person with integrity in the VAR room is the VAR OPERATOR asking them to check - he was clear it was a goal
7. Darren English is o quick to say "nothing can be done" he repeated too much HE DID NOT EVEN WATCH THE GAME - he DID KNOW WHAT HE WAS LOOKING AT - that is just crazy and on top of that say check complete!
8. Gakpo got hurt by Undgoie tackel he is hurt and no card for Undogie he would have been sent off
9. Undogie & Maddison telling ref to give cards and nothing for them
IT IS NOT A MISTAKE IT IS SHEER ARRORANCE AND NEEDS TO FULLY AND THOROUGHLY INVESTIGATED
it absolutely stinks.
A lot of non Liverpools fans saying get over it... not until it happens to you.
It cannot be human error EVERYWEEK - officials deciding who will win or not - it does not only happen to Liverpool
Darren English DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT HE WAS CHECKING - WHY WAS HE NOT WATCHING THE GAME
He's been to the UAE connections with City - and City lost - just saying!
One very vexed Liverpool fan!
What if Diaz was offside but the flag didn't go up... would we get given the goal? Highly doubt it
It's very simple...that's where VAR has to intervene...but to check the goal against the onside. position...as simple as tht
That is why they need VAR to check everything.
All VAR had to say was "Check complete, good goal, no offsides" or "Check complete, no goal, offsides". No chance of a misunderstanding.
You’re the first sane person I’ve seen in all of this that knows it’s a communications issue. They need training like air traffic controllers and pilots do
When the ref said he couldn't stop the game, in order to fix a larger wrong, in any other walk of life he'd be called a petty jobsworth and would be rightly despised.
Yup. Nobody would want to work with him. He undermined his direct supervisor in front of the eyes of the world, by not owning up immediately and letting the person actually in charge do his best to figure it out.
Hereafter, every situation leading to a goal, please take time and examine in detail as we can add extra time later, viewers, spectators are fine to wait for a fair decision rather than being disgruntled.
I think there is more respect afforded to the refs in rugby because everyone can hear what is going on, there is transparency in the decisions and the refs explain why they made a call.
how many times, a goal were taken away, because VAR found something wrong, minutes after the goal...!?
Where panic the guy was so cool about not wanting to stop the game , he doesn’t care , which this is the part that concerns , it looks like , he confidant nothing will happen to him , there is a big moral issue
Lack of communication
Simple solution is var says onside or offside. It is a goal or it isnt a goal. This wouldn't have happened. Clearly var and the assistant var weren't watching this game.
Darren England missed the linesman flagged for offside. He missed Luis Diaz didn’t celebrate. I think everyone who watched the game saw that. He missed VAR on the screen it said ‘checking for offside’ and when tells he made a mistake and to stop the game he brushes it off and says ‘we can’t do anything ‘ . This isn’t human error. This is something more
@TP-pq9xx Why doesn’t he the ask before he says ‘check complete’ if he wasn’t sure it was flagged offside or not?
@@elvarusbecause that’s not how misunderstandings work
He thinks it was called onside, he’s not unsure he’s just misunderstood
The issue is they’re trained to use phrases that aren’t misunderstanding proof like in air traffic communications
Replace “check complete” with “check summary, Diaz is onside, check complete”
That way even if everyone in VAR has looked for the wrong thing like here, the onfield officials can see the misunderstanding or recieve the right call anyway
They must be fired or punished, not statement.
A few season ago similar incident happened to liverpool as well when playing against everton. Mane was not offside but the goal was disallowed
Don't you guys know the difference from other common referee's mistakes? In this case, VAR referee, who is in charge of judgement of offside or onside, confirmed that it was onside but the main on-field referee canceled the goal, reportedly just by communication error, and VAR referee should have intervened and made the on-field referee undo the decision but he failed to intervene as PGMOL stated.What a disgrace! I'm a Man United fan and I think that a re-match has to be held. The match was so important because the winner of this season could've changed. Liverpool had a momentum to be placed on the 1st place of the table and they could've made it. Even if the match had ended draw, Liverpool could've been on the 2nd place. It's a huge disgrace. It should never have happened.
The prem needs the semi automated offside technology used everywhere else
FFS! Just get VAR to spend some time with video refs in rugby. The communication is spot on and on field ref is in contact with TV officials. Make it clear for on field ref to make decisions
Same in cricket, the 3rd umpire is told exactly what the review is for and what the original decision is and talks through every aspect of his decision making process. Maybe the fact that the review conversations in rugby and cricket are broadcast live has something to do with it…
The guy that ks is training them in VAR is from Rugby League.
The PGMOL said that VAR didn’t know it was offside and but from the audio they did know and still made an error. So tried to protect and lie, so good that the audio came out.
"Just checking the offside" said Darren England, now he claims he thought the onfield decision was onside?
Darren England was also the one who said "check complete" and he was the one to make the decision to let the play go on, not letting the ref decide for himself. Thats after taking a long time to realize what happened, just responding with "what?" 10 second after it being called out to him.
I dont care if its corruption or incompentency, he shouldnt be anywhere near premier league matches going forward.
They broke the law showing the still picture of Jones challenge on the yellow card but could not break the rules for the goal,,rubbish..stop making excuses
they stop the game after it stared for penalty or red card
The game has to be replayed.
Now let's play the audio in slow motion like they did with the red card to figure out what's going on 😂😂😂
I demand a replay of this match 🤬
They have to replay the match or re-score it as a draw at least.
Darren england legit posted COYS on twitter. Hes a spurs fan, go figure
Does this now mean 2 referees England and cook can not referee Liverpool this season 😮
Neither should referee again in Premier league
1) the VAR is clearly not watching the match or not watching it very carefully.
2) the whole process is pointlessly and needlessly rushed.
3) there are either no real protocols around how communications are to occur or they are being totally ignored. Everything is waaaaaaay too casual and none of the language is standardized.
4) there are no redundancies or confirmation checks built into the protocols, or they were being blatantly ignored.
How can they not see all of the blatant holes in this system? I can immediately think of a half dozen ways this could be improved from a process/communications stand point and I've never refereed a minute in my life. The whole thing is amateurish and haphazard. It's a minor miracle that it took this long for a screw up of this scale to happen given this is the standard.
It will never improve while they police themselves and do not broadcast their adjudications.
Look at cricket and rugby….it works to everyone’s satisfaction.
The damage has been done, goal disallowed, points lost, questionable red cards not rescinded.
This has to be THE lowest point for those on and off the pitch.
Talk done
The only plausible explanation for the referee's decisions in this game is that the referee was involved in match-fixing, accepting benefits to manipulate the outcome of the match. The officiating referees in the English Premier League have become uncontrollable, creating the desired results before a global audience.
They are pissing on us and calling it rain. 😤
😢I'm devastated...now I have company. We are devastated 😢😢
@@olawilliams25 Yep. It’s terrible 😞.
The Manger needs a red flag challenge like NFL or a white card the manager could hand the fourth official to challenge the call on the field. One challenge card per game. If you challenge and it doesn’t go your way. No card for the next game. But If it goes your way, you get to keep it for another challenge. Give Liverpool the point!
It's simple: former players should be in the VAR room.
*The problem was the VAR room not giving a verdict after the VAR check complete.*
*The VAR check speed was fine. They don't even need to know what the on Field decision was beforehand. It's the verdict they give after the check complete that matters. It's common sense. You would think this is already the protocol.*
*There should also be an unforeseen circumstances rule, where they can stop the game.*
Agree, if someone ran on the pitch
And if someone dropped of a heart attack would they not stop the game.
ALL WE WANT IS CONSISTENCY IN VAR!!! the most basic thing you need! i like the idea of using the screens to show the VAR being done live to make fans more involved and wouldn't mind waiting that little bit extra for the RIGHT DECISION!
its getting beyond a joke now its every week someone getting robbed. 'Best refs in the world ' my arse
Watch the game on the whole not just Diaz goal, Jota 1st yellow was no yellow, Gomez was tackled without the ball in the Spurs box, Salah gets booked, Robbo gets book, Allison get booked we not stupid, it's more than the goal, it's Simon Hooper who had the game on hand, VAR in this case audio we all listern, iam from Cape Town SA, rubgy get it right with TMO & cricket with third empire, Hooper was on Pool case end of story watch the game and analyse the entire game Simon Hooper was the ref Here how many yellow was issued, Jones red is,debateable, again he was on Pool case, he had all the time to go check a red but could not look at all the error he made
Wasn't there a season when the final whistle went off United got a penalty after that. I am not blaming United, they have no role in it. It's just the blatant inconsistencies and negligence for which every team is suffering. Mistakes due to camera angles can still be digested but this pure negligence.
Give 3 point to Liverpool too
As an American, we have had video replay (VAR) for decades in our sports with no problems, but we are much more patient. Its crazy to me how impatient soccer/Premier League fans are. They constantly whistle, moan when there's even a brief stoppage, or they take a little longer to look at something. Soccer is the sport they should take the longest to look at replays because the margin for error is so tight, usually one goal is the difference. We would rather get the correct call, then the wrong one quickly. You guys should want the same.
Do you know what is even worse? People calling football soccer :D
@@poopoppy Its soccer though :)
American Football is constantly stopping and starting anyway, like rugby, so it’s less of an issue . You guys make a 1 hour game last 3 hours sometimes.
@@nickmoore385Every American sport has a replay system though with no issues (football, basketball, baseball, hockey, soccer, etc.). The NFL first used replay from 1986 to 1991 in limited form, then from 1999 to the present in its current form. Its bizarre the Premier league and soccer can't get it right when we've been using it just fine for decades. Soccer fans need to be more patient with decisions or just accept that these massive errors will happen from time to time. You can't have both.
Ive always thought of match fixing, due to some very dubious decisions before, regardless of whether it is my team or not. This has just confirmed it.