Even though I’m a guitar player I’m mesmerized by Gavin attitude; he doesn’t talks about rhythm but he’s always insight in musicality of the patterns. Something always worth discussing about, in a world where very often sheer technique seems to be cornerstone for every musician
I've listened to Brufordfor years and he's smart, clever and 'with it'. Gavin is the progeny of Bruford. Beautiful drummer with feeling. Joe Morrello was another.
This is, in my opinion, the difference between guys like Gavin and Bruford better than most. They understand the need for space and the appearance, at least, of simplicity. Well done.
"Rhytmic Illusions" is on its way. Bought it. Gavin is such a genius: a player with surgical precision yet awesome groove and sound, pushing the envelope - and also a fantastic teacher.
i think simon appreciates it so much because he has spend a big part of his dvds and his time and effort into showing how you can make odd times groove
I love the fact that the musical flow is put ahead of the time signature and its significance. Music is communication so if you’re trying to outsmart your listener it will likely work and they will no longer listen. Very evolved way of thinking for both Gavin and Simon.
I'm not a drummer but it's always such a pleasure to hear gavin play. He's technical, without doubt but more important than that, he has so much feel. He makes me want to learn the drums.
I'm 53 ive been playing drums since I was 14...if I lived for evermore I would not even come close to these two masters of the instrument. ....what a pleasure to listen and watch..even if it's give me a self loathing of how shit I am ...lol
You realize that Gavin is a master of percussion when trying to analyze a sample. Examining the two beat the # 65 (minute 1:07) because I wanted to make a loop, the difference between the duration of the first and second was 0.002s!
@@caspervanhelvoirt To be fair, It was Sting's idea to keep that straight pulse on the hi-hat, Sting specifically wanted the listener to hear and relate to it from an odd time signature, Vinnie just improvised around it
@@SXI96 Yes, you can hear it pre Vinnie on Sting's Nothing Like the Sun album on the track Straight to Your Heart which was Manu Katche. The question is, did Manu play it live or was it an overdub?
It would make sense to work this up as accented 16ths over a 4/4 groove, then switch to only the accented cymbal notes. I'd go through the same routine for 7/8 or other odd time grooves once the 4/4 thing started settling into place. Writing these down would help me a lot, as the visual aspect helps me sort things out. Now to go practice what I preach...!
+l1nk987 Yeah because of the ride bell - but i never thought of it's measure really. I always was thinking of it's drum pattern like 7\4 R--R--R--R--R--R--R--R ----S-------S----S------S-- K-------K------K------K---- Gavin unfortunately didn't mention one thing - the measure of the song is a relative thing - depends on where do you place the bar - you can always state that your song 32\4. Sometimes it's absolutely legit. And every uneven measure can be multiplied by 2 making the pattern always start from 1. Just to implement the concept of overlaying plain pulse.
Geez, the dotted eigth-note riding is one of those boundaries I still have to cross. Not sure I really want to do that :) Then again, technique at the service of music, that could define those two guys
Pretty inspiring, I got thrown into my parents band as the drummer, and they love playing odd tempos and time, mainly because the drum machine they were using could only stick to a clean 4/4.
Great video...Neil Peart was one of the very first I heard focus on the quarter note pulse. Songs like "Subdivision" and so many others. Portnoy took a lot of that from Neil. The way "Limelight" is played ..3/4 against 4/4 and matching up every 12 beats. Gavin has just taken it a bit further. I also agree that many of the early progressive players..Carl Palmer, Bill Bruford and more play those odd meters almost with a singular purpose to say.."This is in an odd time..pay attention!". Doesn't make it wrong or bad..not remotely close..just a completely different approach.
Im a consummate Phil fan and all the old Genesis has a lot of 7s in it. I feel when I hear any of those songs, the coolness of variants of 7 is the keyboards, synth or interplay with the bass lines, which are all clever, but musical. I never felt their stuff was jagged because it has this weird weird churning backbeat thats more felt than heard. I dont think odd times have to feel jagged when the total of the parts has its own pulse.
Sound of Muzak is one of those songs that I think has to be something odd, but it feels so natural. Yet it's really difficult to grasp on the first time on guitar, the timing.
to note one's own opinion on this, I actually enjoyed Gavin's initial seven at the start of this clip. Though he played eights on this leg ,instead of hi hat ,it grooved wonderfully. The over ride sounded like a progression of the original rather than a better option. My point then? Trust your ears, if you like seven played that way ask for it. I liked Gavin's first seven. When he played it on the hi hat however he added a three stroke riff that definitely sounded stilted which conveniently suited his proposed point of over riding as a superior groove mechanism. I disagree with that if the case. To attempt to qualify my point above check out a video of Marco Minnemann teaching a 1516 time signature. He too like Gavin here refers to his original take of the beat as stilted but for me actually sounded great. In fact, Minnemann then goes on to over ride and suggest busier snare work over the original which to my taste over crowded the beat with notes and when over riding he then over obscured the once detectable pulse. To each their own but here I present mine for general discourse and consideration. Be kind though haha
Mike Portnoy has done this too, especially on images and words and awake. Check out his odd time signatures tutorial and you'll see when he breaks it down and explains it.
I've played with a few drummers that indulged in odd time signatures, unfortunately it was always accidental, and finding the 1 was a forlorn f*cking hope. (sigh)
Not at all. However: as far as I understand, the difference lies in that polyrhythms are "systems" (or whatever they're called in english) like 4 over 3, 5 over 4 and so on, while overriding is the idea of smoothing out odd-times - be that using polyrhythms (as the last thing he does with 4 over 3 in 7/8) or just quarter-notes. So essentially: making polyrhythm not sound like polyrhythm. (At least that is what I understand!)
Visti Løvbakke In fact what Gavin is describing definitely qualifies as a polyrhythm (which at its most basic is just the superimposition of 2 different rhythms). So playing a 7/4 beat on the hihat over a 2 bars of 7/8 on the snare and bass is a polyrhythm.
J Venv You have the right of it. What Gavin's doing here isn't really polyrhythms technically but sort of are in a way. Take the the ride pattern of hitting it every three 16th notes while playing the 7/8 groove underneath. The ride pattern has a triplet kind of metre where as the 7/8 bass and snare pattern is it's own thing. You end up having a kind of polyrhythm between the ride and the backbeat groove.
Such an economical aesthetic: justifying musical choices for the listener, not the musician. Wisdom.
He has a 3 piece drum set and it feels like a full kit is being played. Its rich, flavorful, tasteful
What a magical dude. Lovely, simply lovely
"Hey look we can play 19/16, check this out!"
LOL
Well I'm so happy knowing that Gavin and Simon Phillips are true buddies. Both amazing world class drummers.
Even though I’m a guitar player I’m mesmerized by Gavin attitude; he doesn’t talks about rhythm but he’s always insight in musicality of the patterns.
Something always worth discussing about, in a world where very often sheer technique seems to be cornerstone for every musician
marloc2019 He does not play the drums, he is actually playing music. Very musical! I love his style
Gavin is an absolute genius. I am a guitarist but I have always been fascinated with drummers because they are a different breed of musicians
Not only a really cool idea, but very wise words as well.
These are two of my all time favorite drummers! 🥁
I've listened to Brufordfor years and he's smart, clever and 'with it'. Gavin is the progeny of Bruford. Beautiful drummer with feeling. Joe Morrello was another.
His ghost notes are otherworldly.
This is, in my opinion, the difference between guys like Gavin and Bruford better than most. They understand the need for space and the appearance, at least, of simplicity. Well done.
"Rhytmic Illusions" is on its way. Bought it. Gavin is such a genius: a player with surgical precision yet awesome groove and sound, pushing the envelope - and also a fantastic teacher.
Wow, the "every third sixteenth note" is really amazing! I think Simon Phillips is really amazed :)
i think simon appreciates it so much because he has spend a big part of his dvds and his time and effort into showing how you can make odd times groove
I wish I could study with these Guys!
I love the fact that the musical flow is put ahead of the time signature and its significance. Music is communication so if you’re trying to outsmart your listener it will likely work and they will no longer listen.
Very evolved way of thinking for both Gavin and Simon.
The best four minutes and twenty one seconds I've spent in a long time!
I'm not a drummer but it's always such a pleasure to hear gavin play. He's technical, without doubt but more important than that, he has so much feel. He makes me want to learn the drums.
Two of my favourite drummers..! 👍🏻
King of the drums
Just a time signature without swag.
2 of my absolute favorites here.
Tomas Haake for sure does this, this is awesome!
master informed by the master
I'm 53 ive been playing drums since I was 14...if I lived for evermore I would not even come close to these two masters of the instrument. ....what a pleasure to listen and watch..even if it's give me a self loathing of how shit I am ...lol
I know EXACTLY what you mean!^^
You aren't alone.....
I love the English classy approach to things. Two of my favorite,, Gavin, and Simon. Thanks guys for all you show us.
Such a great player. LOVE his approach to odd time.
Simply a Magician
GENIUS
Unbelievable groove and feel and always so interesting to listen to.
As a guitarist, this is exactly why Gavin's my favorite drummer of all time.
Thumbs up for mentioning Bulgaria and their grooving odd time signatures!
Absolutely fantastic! Great musicality and sounds great!
David Curtis Drumming
These guys are certainly the Einsteins amongst the percusionists. To us this makes BIG sence.
Gavin is the man.
Good stuff! These 2 guys in the same room. Wow.!
You realize that Gavin is a master of percussion when trying to analyze a sample. Examining the two beat the # 65 (minute 1:07) because I wanted to make a loop, the difference between the duration of the first and second was 0.002s!
He is atomic clock accurate !
THE MASTER
I have Rhythmic Illusions, it's CRAZY book!
damn Gavin, this is amazing...
Such a genius.
Accenting every 16nth note is hell-of a challenge!
He is talking about every third 16nth. Dotted 8th notes
Every third sixteenth note means the & in every subdivided 16th?
Gotta appreciate his humility.
Love you Gavin!
Simon is happy 😊
I’ll be working on these two patterns for the rest of me life. 😎
I have my answer. Finally! Thanks for this vid.
best air drummer ever
What a legend
The Genius und the Master
thats what vinnie did in all Sting tunes...
Seven Days got to be my favourite !
St.Augustine in Hell also.
@@caspervanhelvoirt To be fair, It was Sting's idea to keep that straight pulse on the hi-hat, Sting specifically wanted the listener to hear and relate to it from an odd time signature, Vinnie just improvised around it
@@SXI96 Yes, you can hear it pre Vinnie on Sting's Nothing Like the Sun album on the track Straight to Your Heart which was Manu Katche. The question is, did Manu play it live or was it an overdub?
@@mancuniancandidatem Manu Rocks!
I agree completely with Gavin. That said, I think there's a place for jerky proggy stuff too, if it's well done.
I saw Gavin play with Level 42, 25 years ago. He really has his own sound and technique. Such a great musician.
1000 likes in advance. What a drummer man!!!
I need to be reborn to digest all of this , I get it, but playing it is a new level, at least for me.
Genius! :) great advice and thoughts
You can see why Neil Peart thought so highly of Gavin. The new professor perhaps?
Brilliance!
When he was doing the quarternotes over 7/8, I was like: I can do that!
The he did 16th notes triplets over 7/8. Mind blown.
INSANE NL 3rd 16th note, you mean, or dotted 8th! :)
1. Write it down
2. Slow, methodical practice
3. Do it with a groove (the hardest part)
: D
It would make sense to work this up as accented 16ths over a 4/4 groove, then switch to only the accented cymbal notes. I'd go through the same routine for 7/8 or other odd time grooves once the 4/4 thing started settling into place. Writing these down would help me a lot, as the visual aspect helps me sort things out. Now to go practice what I preach...!
Simon....yeah....yeah ....yeah..mmmm....yeah😁
A great song towards this concept is St. Augustine In Hell by Sting; the 7/8 groove and feel is simple but unreal to listen too :)
+l1nk987 Yeah because of the ride bell - but i never thought of it's measure really. I always was thinking of it's drum pattern like 7\4
R--R--R--R--R--R--R--R
----S-------S----S------S--
K-------K------K------K----
Gavin unfortunately didn't mention one thing - the measure of the song is a relative thing - depends on where do you place the bar - you can always state that your song 32\4. Sometimes it's absolutely legit. And every uneven measure can be multiplied by 2 making the pattern always start from 1. Just to implement the concept of overlaying plain pulse.
still love it!
And then they went on to make one of the best drummer collaborations ever
Too Good...
Geez, the dotted eigth-note riding is one of those boundaries I still have to cross. Not sure I really want to do that :) Then again, technique at the service of music, that could define those two guys
He's beginning to sound like Marco Minneman!
Gavin Harrison & Simmon Phillips really need to put together an improv video.
There are some of it on youtube..
Check out the drum solo they did together.
When Gods collide.
Pretty inspiring, I got thrown into my parents band as the drummer, and they love playing odd tempos and time, mainly because the drum machine they were using could only stick to a clean 4/4.
01:32 u know sometimes I take it a bit FURTHER!
Furrrther
yayın boş iş kanala devam
*twhack*
Genious!
what an amazing drummer! I think Anika nilles should watch this video. She is the type of drummer gavin says, she plays odd tempos just to look cool.
This is my first time seeing Gavin play traditional grip...
People can't even begin to realise how hard the 3/16 hi hat over a 7/8 beat is...
Well said
1:37 LOVE IT
Thats some very Soda Stereo stuff on El Septimo Dia! Thats exactly what they do
Thanks Gavin!!
Great!
I find this extremely funny
Great video...Neil Peart was one of the very first I heard focus on the quarter note pulse. Songs like "Subdivision" and so many others. Portnoy took a lot of that from Neil. The way "Limelight" is played ..3/4 against 4/4 and matching up every 12 beats. Gavin has just taken it a bit further. I also agree that many of the early progressive players..Carl Palmer, Bill Bruford and more play those odd meters almost with a singular purpose to say.."This is in an odd time..pay attention!". Doesn't make it wrong or bad..not remotely close..just a completely different approach.
Im a consummate Phil fan and all the old Genesis has a lot of 7s in it. I feel when I hear any of those songs, the coolness
of variants of 7 is the keyboards, synth or interplay with the bass lines, which are all clever, but musical. I never felt their stuff
was jagged because it has this weird weird churning backbeat thats more felt than heard. I dont think odd times have to feel jagged when the total of the parts has its own pulse.
Unbelievably clever
genius
mannn you rock . when you planning to come play in morocco ? looking forward to seeing you there .
Sound of Muzak is one of those songs that I think has to be something odd, but it feels so natural. Yet it's really difficult to grasp on the first time on guitar, the timing.
to note one's own opinion on this, I actually enjoyed Gavin's initial seven at the start of this clip. Though he played eights on this leg ,instead of hi hat ,it grooved wonderfully. The over ride sounded like a progression of the original rather than a better option. My point then? Trust your ears, if you like seven played that way ask for it. I liked Gavin's first seven. When he played it on the hi hat however he added a three stroke riff that definitely sounded stilted which conveniently suited his proposed point of over riding as a superior groove mechanism. I disagree with that if the case. To attempt to qualify my point above check out a video of Marco Minnemann teaching a 1516 time signature. He too like Gavin here refers to his original take of the beat as stilted but for me actually sounded great. In fact, Minnemann then goes on to over ride and suggest busier snare work over the original which to my taste over crowded the beat with notes and when over riding he then over obscured the once detectable pulse. To each their own but here I present mine for general discourse and consideration. Be kind though haha
Mike Portnoy has done this too, especially on images and words and awake. Check out his odd time signatures tutorial and you'll see when he breaks it down and explains it.
Cool cool cool
Vinnie Colaiuta does that a lot in Ten Summoners' Tales
Yes you're exactly right :)
David Curtis Drumming
This is random, but the song "I'm Broken" by Pantera is a great example of odd time signatures that groove.
I'm broken is 4/4... LOL
Nope. 7/8. Some of it is in 4/4 and 3/4 as well.
I think I was thinking of Hollow. I was way off. lol
No wait most of hollow is 3/4. forget it...
Maitland did this as well
Beerzerker yeah Mesmer I is in 13/8 with a quarter bell pulse
2:07 “3d aeffect”
Wow he can play traditional grip too
best
From some dvd is it or where I will find a pdf for this? Thank you for your help. :)
I've played with a few drummers that indulged in odd time signatures, unfortunately it was always accidental, and finding the 1 was a forlorn f*cking hope. (sigh)
Find better ones.
@@Riddim4 I shall endeavor to do so.
Che batterista!
Am I just being stupid now or isn`t overriding sort of the same thing as polyrythms?
Not at all. However: as far as I understand, the difference lies in that polyrhythms are "systems" (or whatever they're called in english) like 4 over 3, 5 over 4 and so on, while overriding is the idea of smoothing out odd-times - be that using polyrhythms (as the last thing he does with 4 over 3 in 7/8) or just quarter-notes.
So essentially: making polyrhythm not sound like polyrhythm.
(At least that is what I understand!)
Visti Løvbakke In fact what Gavin is describing definitely qualifies as a polyrhythm (which at its most basic is just the superimposition of 2 different rhythms). So playing a 7/4 beat on the hihat over a 2 bars of 7/8 on the snare and bass is a polyrhythm.
J Venv You have the right of it. What Gavin's doing here isn't really polyrhythms technically but sort of are in a way. Take the the ride pattern of hitting it every three 16th notes while playing the 7/8 groove underneath. The ride pattern has a triplet kind of metre where as the 7/8 bass and snare pattern is it's own thing. You end up having a kind of polyrhythm between the ride and the backbeat groove.
WHERE'S THE PDF?
These Yeahs are really worrying ..yeah mhhmm yeah ,right,yeah
Bulgaria...