One of my favourite KSP channels. An interesting episode would be one about timing launches for adding a comm sat exactly on the right spot on a previously partially built network.
That would be a good one to do, or place a keostationary satellite directly above a specific location, like the KSC (I believe there is a contract to that effect). Though, I would likely put it into a parking orbit first, not worrying about the launch time, and then time my insertion from there.
Video helped a lot still in 2021. Used a similar satellite but was able to do this using smaller engines and fuel tanks like the swivel and terrier which are adequate enough with the octo probe core :D
Great to know about how to space out the satellites around each body. For Kerbin, I had just launched a vessel every two hours and reached an altitude of 600 km. They were pretty evenly spaced since a kerbin day is only six hours, and I launched identical vehicles on the dot every two hours. Fun bit, the leftover fuel from those satellites work as refueling stations now.
Just thanks ! Very well put out. Learned a lot, from multi node fairings, to phasing orbit. Thanks to you, in a few hours, my science lab on the dark side of Mun will transmit back lots of science to kerbin
Just make sure to read my correction in the description regarding a better altitude for the communication relays. That, or put on stronger antennas than I did here.
Though i've been playing KSP for 3 years, your videos are always interesting to watch. Especially I love the "let's do the math" playlist. Combining it with kOS gives you a feeling of being a home made rocket scientist :-) BTW, would be cool to see how to calculate the amount of electric charge your satellite needs to operate while on the dark side depending on its orbital parameters. I know there's mod for this but would be great to see the math behind it. Especially with inclined orbits. Cheers!
Doing electricity is definitely on my to do list. I did write this document some time ago ( goo.gl/NfGEz5 ) that deals with what you're talking about because I couldn't find it anywhere else. Another thing to cover would be using the inverse square law as you move closer, or further away from, the sun.
Great video. I wish I'd seen it before slinging six relays around Mun in totally arbitrary orbits. Luckily, Mun is the only body I've cluttered up. I'll be much more efficient moving forward.
I got an updated relay video for 1.11 dropping this Saturday. This time around Minmus. I'm also planning a video where I take three satellites, all in different orbits, and wrangle them into a network around the Mun. This might help with the ones you already have there.
i made the probes bare minimum using stayputnik probes 1 big antenna for establishing a reliable comunication with kerbin and 1 small antenna along with a few solar panels and a few battery's and later in career mode i de-orbited these and crashed them into the moon and put a more updated model which replaced the solar panels with 2 rtg's which are rotated inside the probe core itself making it even more compact the battery's were also moved inside the probe core itself so the only external parts outside of the probe core is the antennas over all the relay satalites are really compact but i also decided to improve it one step further by adding rcs a few rcs thrusters and 3 small mono-propellant orb tanks that are moved to the inside of the probe core with them barely sticking out with a docking port on the back of the probe core for refueling if neccessary
I'm the watching this at exactly 1000 views! congratulation your channel is growing dude. And I'm still watching your playtrough. In my opinion you should have more subs, but not everybody has the patience neither the bases to understand the valuable content that you share. Anyway, right now I have a sat relay net to setup thanks for the tutorial :)
Many people, including me, way over-engineer their craft. That was a really nice relay probe you built. Thanks for sharing the design and the build tips.
Five years later and the information in this video still holds true. However a word of warning... First I will point out, Mike did say you don't need to build a network around Kerbin because of all the ground stations scattered across the planet. But what if either you want the challenge of playing with those turned off, or you're like me, stupid enough to accidentally disable them when setting the game up? Then you'll need a relay network around Kerbin, or face the prospects of having zones in which your spacecraft will not be in communications with the KSC. Facing this, because as I said, I managed to switch all the ground stations off in error, and also because I'd never had any reason to do it before, I decided to set up a Keosynchronous orbit for my three little early career relay satellites. I had no option but to use the HG-5 antenna - just like in this video - putting two on each sat. because I thought they'd look a little cooler than if they only had one. Man, I got that orbit so accurate, I was feeling really chuffed with myself, two satellites were literally as accurate with their orbital period, as KER would show, the third was 1/1000th of a second over. After patting myself on the back for the umpteenth time, I noticed something... The green communications lines were coming out from the KSC alright, but there were none going from satellite to satellite. I started clicking on the icon at the top of the screen which turns on more pathways, but nope, those satellites just couldn't talk to each other. Not only that, but even if one was over a blackspot and another vessel with a C-16 antenna was flying through it, it couldn't relay a signal to it either! So, if you have to build a network around Kerbin, don't shoot for a Keosynchronous orbit, if all you have is the HG-5 antenna. Maybe three would work, I haven't calculated that yet, and right now I'm too busy working on lowering the altitude of the three sats. I have in orbit to do so, but I would definitely recommend putting your coms. network in a much lower orbit than I did.
you dont have to calculate a phasing orbit, you can just release the satellites and send them out one by one in manuevers that look pretty close to a triangle.. the crucial bit is that they are as close as possible to the same apoapsis and periapsis should be pretty close to apoapsis.. within .1 tolerance i would say.. if theyre too far off you can adjust them with other maneuvers.. its how i got my one satellite keostationary.. i eyed that one too..
oh i see why you need a phasing orbit because youre already in the orbit apoapsis.. i was launching mine from kerbin leo.. ive actually never established a relay network around a moon..
So as a Long time ksp player, I saw this tutorial and it's pretty good, few things to mention is the precise mode for the rcs and using rcs to get that initial periapsis perfect, other than that good job
im so confused about all the numbers.. what is the farthest that i could put the maxed out relays to still have good signal and then how far could i get another relay system? im thinking the first one would be in the dres orbit then the next one outside jool or sarnus (outer planets mod) but then from there each planet would need its own relay network.. but i dont really think each body needs its own network inside of kerbin.. but i dont know.. maybe each planet needs its own network? the kerbin system definitely doesnt need a network around each body.. probably the same for other planetary networks.. one network for each planetary system.. but even then when planets arent aligned.. im thinking of a full solar system relay network with full coverage 5 bars.. i work for verizon.. jk.. im just some kid looking for a wifi signal on eeloo..
@@MikeAben I was thinking the same thing, but I thought it was because I am not feeling well today., or due to tinnitus, or both. I turned my sound down, but it still seemed odd. Then I read this thread!
You just need to change the period of the phasing orbit. With three satellites, the phasing orbit period should be 1/3 more, or 1/3 less, than the period of the final orbit. For four satellites it would be 1/4, for n, 1/n. I get more into the math of this in this video. ruclips.net/video/gpQmvwU1x8c/видео.htmlsi=Z3_dzaljVp8tsAI_
Well let's see. I think I got the periods within a second of each other. The period is 12 hours, so a 1 second drift is 1/(12×60×60) of an orbit. Multipling by 360 degree gets a drift of 0.0083333 degrees per orbit. That's about 1.8 degrees per -day- year or 0.5 percent of a full rotation. They'll be fine for a while. In game rounding errors may come out to be more than that.
Hi Mike. Big fan of these videos. Really helping me a lot with KSP. I wanted to ask you where I can find the Strobe Light effect on your spaceship. Its at the 1:18 mark that there's a strobe effect its really cool and I want to ask what Mob that is. Thank You again for posting and making this video. It really helps a lot of KSP beginners
I'm glad it helps. I'm hoping to get back to these kinds of videos soon. The mod is called Aviation Lights. forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/173305-18x-aviation-lights-v410-16-october-2019/
It was fairly arbitrary. It just seemed an easy number, and actually, I have a later video that explains why it wasn't the best choice. ruclips.net/video/gpQmvwU1x8c/видео.html In that video, I explain why a period of 3 hours (alt of 377.35 km) is better. I am currently working on an updated tutorial to this one (actually, there'll be two) that will drop in about a week and a half.
I imagine the timescale for that to happen would be more than enough of a timescale for you to be able to figure out how to launch and correct an orbit of an existing satellite.
You have to go back and slightly adjust the orbits of the satellites every 10 years or so. Just put each relay into a longer or shorter orbit until it’s back in line with the others. and then put it back to its original orbital period.
If it really bothers you, you can edit the save file (persistent.sfs) so that each satellite has the exact same semi-major axis (SMA). They will never drift again.
I had no connection because I was in the communication shadow of the Mun. On the default settings, you still have limited control in this situation so I could still decouple and raise antennas. Right after that, I popped out from behind the Mun and had full control.
@@MikeAben ah right, that rings a bell from when I was going over the settings of my recent save. Having that setting to always require a connection has bit me in the butt a couple times now.
@@DustPyro Typically, I do have it set to zero control without a connection in my games, but had it on the default settings for tutorials. This still would have worked. I would just have done further orbits until I had my connection at apoapsis.
Can probes be controlled by a ship? Like a ship in orbit with a kerbal pilot can have a signal to the probe on the surface without having a connection the space center?
That's a great question. I know the Remote Tech mod has that functionality, but to my knowledge stock does not. It would be a simple thing to have a part that would allow that.
@Steel Wheel Absolutely. They will require the odd correction, but you'll be surprised how long they'll stay pretty close to the right place. With a bit of care, they shouldn't need any adjusting for another year or two.
You won't get complete coverage, but it'll be alright. In my campaigns I usually take probes built for satellite contracts and re-purpose them as communication satellites. That means I'm putting them in their orbits one at a time. You get pretty descent coverage once you get to two.
I'm trying to rebuild the booster here but my rocket keeps flipping over. Seems like these are some old parts too in this video. Are you able to give me a part list for the booster?
Sorry, I don't have access to this craft file. I can say that the part specs haven't changed. If you're having trouble with it flipping out you can try larger/more tailfins and/or more reaction wheels. I do have a newer video where I updated some things, especially the satellite design. ruclips.net/video/18rO6Avm5FE/видео.html
@@MikeAben Very nice. I realized that you probably had the RC-L01 which I didn't have and thought that was the Advanced Reaction Wheel object soo... rookie move. I like the new video - I've been watching a lot of them.
Hey, I'm late for the party! Thanks for the help, mate! 1 question, though... How do I "fix" my triangle? It took me too many attempts to circularize the sat's orbits and, as a result, I ended up with a non-equilateral triangle (two of the sats are on opposites sides of the Mun to each other and can't communicate). How do I fix that?
What you need to do is slow down, or speed up, one of the satellites and wait for it to be in the right position relative to the other satellite. You can then just return the orbit to what it was. To slow down a satellite, you need to increase its orbital period by burning prograde to raise apoapsis (yes, it feels backwards - ain't orbital mechanics fun!). You do the opposite to speed up. The adjustment need only be a small one. I do it in a career game here - ruclips.net/video/Zg6OXbcEuNc/видео.html Now I used the Kerbal Engineer mod to my advantage, but stock now gives you many of these tools too. I want to get back into these tutorials. This would be a good topic to cover.
Mike Aben… Did you use stock parts for the booster assembly? I have a full tree and cannot replicate what you have at all... especially the 2nd stage engine. I have nothing in my set of parts that even looks like that. EDIT: Also, I'm using the exact same fairing as you but do not have the options that you do nor the ability to set interstage nodes. What mods are you using?
The probes have linear RCS ports on them for propulsion. The transfer vehicle is powered by a RE-L10 Poodle, and the lifter looks like it has a RE-I5 Skipper. Some of these engines look different now because this is a pretty old video.
It has two effects in career and science mode. One, it adds a bonus to the amount of science that can be transmitted. This bonus is related to the strength of the signal. Without a link, you can't transmit at all. Also, the link effects your ability to control uncrewed probes. The effect is adjustable in the difficulty settings, including the ability to turn it off all together. I think all this is irrelevant in sandbox, though I rarely play sandbox, so I'm not sure.
Does that small relay antenna really have a strong enough signal to return to kerbin? My own experimentation with these Is that they are pretty much useless outside low kerbin orbit. Am I doing something wrong?
What I showed here works fine. I'm using it in my own career game. It works fine for Minmus too given at least a tier 2 tracking station. One error I did make (see the correction in the description) is that I put them in too high an orbit for a communitron 16 in low orbit (or on the surface) to communicate effectively. A better altitude would be 377.35 km. Edited to add: Even with a tier 1 tracking station, the small relay should have about 96% signal strength around the Mun. Of course, when relaying, the other antenna is important too. Perhaps you did what I did and put it in too high an orbit.
@@MikeAben One question though: If I decide to use the 377 km altitude, my first Pe while before the phasing fase couldn't be the 565,65km marker, right?
@@dasLlamas_94 The problem with the 565.65 km is that a 565.65x377 orbit has a period of 3.76 hours. You want it to be 2 hours or 4 hours which are each 1/3 off from the final period of 3 hours. This has actually gotten easier since this video. KSP now gives you the period in the orbital information at the bottom left. Set your closest approach to 377.35 km. Then during your capture, burn until your orbital period is 4 hours. You will now be in the perfect phasing orbit. I really got to do an updated video on this sometime.
- You should still have a connection with the deployment vehicle as long as the Mun is not between you and Kerbin (that is, you are in the Mun's communication shadow). If aren't getting a connection no matter where you are in your orbit, make sure your antenna is raised. A single Communitron-16 should be enough. - If you are losing your comm link when you get to apoapsis (like what almost happened to me at 14:28), then just keep riding around the orbit. As the Mun is orbiting Kerbin, you will get to a point when you will be at apoapsis and have a communication link at the same time. If this isn't helping, let me know. Good luck!
@@MikeAben Many thanks for the reply, I did try it again but it seems to happen when kerbin rotates all the 1/2 way round, I lose all connection, I only have one launch site so could that be the reason as they are then on the dark side when i get near the mun ? do I have to place any on kerbin or around kerbin first ? Great Vid btw really did help me out a lot so far :)
I'm noticing for the first time that there is a toggle in the advanced difficulty settings for "Enable Extra Groundstations". If this is off, then you have no ground stations and would only be able to communicate if you have a line of sight with the KSC. That would explain what you're seeing. This setting is on for all the default difficulties (including hard), but perhaps you turned it off. Other than that, I can't see what the problem might be, unless you don't have a raised antenna, but I assume you have that covered.
@@MikeAben well you know the obvious thing that I should have covered, well err Not forgot to raise the antenna, so I lose contact with the rocket and it's dead . Not sure what to say really about my KSP skills .....ahhahhahhhahahah. Many thanks and I now have a relay great tut. Btw !
@@MikeAben I am running a comms mod, forgot the name, that is super strict apparently. I have to have 3 on equatorial and 3 on polar to cover the poles. I thought the normal game was that strict, too.
@@michaelbrininstool4515 No it isn't, though I've done the same set up as you for the same reason. In stock, the communication lines will go a bit into the ground. Not just through terrain, but below sea level.
While I hate doing it as I love finding something to complain about...😁 I again have to give you eleven out of ten for this video - fantastic stuff! Believe it or not but I never entirely mastered how to set up sub assemblies properly, I even learned that here! One question, is there any advantage to using stack decouplers under the fairing? I tend to use separators myself as they completely break away from the vehicle, removing the now redundant piece of the truss assembly in the process.
@@MikeAben Where can I find it? It's not in the Tutorials playlist. Another question: How can I choose which probe core steers the rocket? My rocket kept tipping over right at launch until I realised I mounted the sats upside down and did not set the Control Point option to "reverse". But the final stage has it's own core so I can deorbit it, I'd like the game to use that core.
@@Kilian2 Sorry, where can you find what? As to the probe core issue, we've all done that. In fact, I had the same thing happen in my last stream. On the launch pad you can right click on any probe core and select "control from here". In the VAB, you can use the root part tool to make a different core the root part. That will make it the default control point.
@@MikeAben Sorry I somehow misplaced that comment. I already found the improved / more recent video about Relay Networks in your "absolute beginner" series.
No mods. All the tutorials I do are pure vanilla. Given the date of this video, this would have been version 1.2.2, and I just checked with the current version 1.3.1, and the options are there. Make sure you have an up to date version of the game. Edited to add: This is also the PC version of the game, not the console version.
The colour of the line indicates the strength of the communication link. Red is weak. In the description I posted a correction that these satelites are too high to communicated well with something in low Mun oribit with just a Communitron 16 and suggest a better altitude.
As clever as this is, i dont know why he wouldn't do a polar orbit or an sso, enabling all three relays to have continuous comms with The kerban serface. 10/10 engineering but you lose points for your orbital trajectories. Then again one of the most beautiful parts about this video and strategy is its very simplistic compared to multiple launches and eyeballing the orbital math to make sure they dont end up right next to eachother in orbit out of prop...
Hi, Josh. I'm a bit confused by your comment. Perhaps you can elaborate. I see no advantage to a polar orbit. At any one time a satellite in a polar orbit sees as much of the planet as a satellite at any other inclination. Also, what's an sso?
@@MikeAben sso is a solar synchronous orbit. Meaning your always facing the same direction while passing over the same spot, what i mean by that is have your orbit go from north pole, west pole, south pole, east pole repeat. Seeing as the moon is tidal locked in real life and ksp this means you will have coverage from all locations around your orbit, and when triangulated as demonstrated in the video, you have at least 2 satellites connectable in every direction
@@joshmckinlay88 Gotcha. That kind of orbit doesn't remain oriented that way for long without constant maintenance. After a quarter orbit about Kerbin (1.5 days) the plane of a satellite in such an orbit about the Mun would have rotated 90 degrees relative to the Mun, and will no longer function the way you want.
TRUSS STRUCTURE AND INTERSTAGE NODES!!!!! JESUS!!!!!! Thank you for THOSE!!!! Also, next time don't put 3 sats on your delivery vehicle. Only put 2. Take a look at what your delivery vehicle has on it. All you need to add is the antenna, and you can delete the communotron. Your delivery vehicle becomes the 3rd sat. You save most of the cost of a sat (and I say DAMN you build some expensive satellites!!!!! I think mine were about a 3rd that cost!!!!), and you no longer just toss away assets by slamming your delivery vehicle into the body. Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Why have I not seen your vids before?!?!?!? I've been watching Kerbal vids for over a year now. Oh, and turn off the Kerbal back ground music. It's way too damned loud. Thanks. And I'm subscribing.
Next - #12: RCS & Docking - ruclips.net/video/CxypAmhNY7o/видео.html
Very good info with the interstage nodes. Such an easy way to use the fairings to stack stuff. First video I've seen showing this.
One of my favourite KSP channels. An interesting episode would be one about timing launches for adding a comm sat exactly on the right spot on a previously partially built network.
That would be a good one to do, or place a keostationary satellite directly above a specific location, like the KSC (I believe there is a contract to that effect). Though, I would likely put it into a parking orbit first, not worrying about the launch time, and then time my insertion from there.
I learned so much more from this video than from literally 50 other videos
Hands down THE best tutorial for relay networking! Thank you, Mike.
I've watched many videos about doing this and this is the first one I actually understand. Good job
Video helped a lot still in 2021. Used a similar satellite but was able to do this using smaller engines and fuel tanks like the swivel and terrier which are adequate enough with the octo probe core :D
Yeah, I have a recent updated video which does this better and within a career mode game.
Elegant final result. Thank you, Mike!
Great to know about how to space out the satellites around each body. For Kerbin, I had just launched a vessel every two hours and reached an altitude of 600 km. They were pretty evenly spaced since a kerbin day is only six hours, and I launched identical vehicles on the dot every two hours.
Fun bit, the leftover fuel from those satellites work as refueling stations now.
Just thanks ! Very well put out. Learned a lot, from multi node fairings, to phasing orbit. Thanks to you, in a few hours, my science lab on the dark side of Mun will transmit back lots of science to kerbin
Just make sure to read my correction in the description regarding a better altitude for the communication relays. That, or put on stronger antennas than I did here.
Good info. But the music volume is BRUTAL.
Dude for real. These videos are amazing but that serene, ethereal music is like DIIIIIIIIIIIIING BUUUUUUM DOOOOOOOOOOO
Though i've been playing KSP for 3 years, your videos are always interesting to watch. Especially I love the "let's do the math" playlist. Combining it with kOS gives you a feeling of being a home made rocket scientist :-) BTW, would be cool to see how to calculate the amount of electric charge your satellite needs to operate while on the dark side depending on its orbital parameters. I know there's mod for this but would be great to see the math behind it. Especially with inclined orbits. Cheers!
Doing electricity is definitely on my to do list. I did write this document some time ago ( goo.gl/NfGEz5 ) that deals with what you're talking about because I couldn't find it anywhere else. Another thing to cover would be using the inverse square law as you move closer, or further away from, the sun.
19:08 that's just beautiful
Great video. I wish I'd seen it before slinging six relays around Mun in totally arbitrary orbits. Luckily, Mun is the only body I've cluttered up. I'll be much more efficient moving forward.
I got an updated relay video for 1.11 dropping this Saturday. This time around Minmus. I'm also planning a video where I take three satellites, all in different orbits, and wrangle them into a network around the Mun. This might help with the ones you already have there.
@@MikeAben
Awesome. I’ll be there for both of them.
i made the probes bare minimum using stayputnik probes 1 big antenna for establishing a reliable comunication with kerbin and 1 small antenna along with a few solar panels and a few battery's and later in career mode i de-orbited these and crashed them into the moon and put a more updated model which replaced the solar panels with 2 rtg's which are rotated inside the probe core itself making it even more compact the battery's were also moved inside the probe core itself so the only external parts outside of the probe core is the antennas over all the relay satalites are really compact but i also decided to improve it one step further by adding rcs a few rcs thrusters and 3 small mono-propellant orb tanks that are moved to the inside of the probe core with them barely sticking out with a docking port on the back of the probe core for refueling if neccessary
if you want it, you gotta fight for it. in this case, if you want to learn it you gotta fight the pleasant but blasting jazzy soundtrack
I'm the watching this at exactly 1000 views! congratulation your channel is growing dude. And I'm still watching your playtrough. In my opinion you should have more subs, but not everybody has the patience neither the bases to understand the valuable content that you share.
Anyway, right now I have a sat relay net to setup thanks for the tutorial :)
Awesome! Thanks. I'm glad the sat network is working.
Hmm, 1000 views. Maybe more caps an exclamation marks in the titles will help.
lol exactly
Bro these vids help sooo much like Scott manly level kept up the vids there great
+AVERAGE GAMER AO8 Thanks.
EXTREMELY Usefull!
Thanks.
Many people, including me, way over-engineer their craft. That was a really nice relay probe you built. Thanks for sharing the design and the build tips.
Wait 'till you see the crappy, low tech, one I've got coming up in my next campaign video.
Five years later and the information in this video still holds true. However a word of warning...
First I will point out, Mike did say you don't need to build a network around Kerbin because of all the ground stations scattered across the planet. But what if either you want the challenge of playing with those turned off, or you're like me, stupid enough to accidentally disable them when setting the game up? Then you'll need a relay network around Kerbin, or face the prospects of having zones in which your spacecraft will not be in communications with the KSC.
Facing this, because as I said, I managed to switch all the ground stations off in error, and also because I'd never had any reason to do it before, I decided to set up a Keosynchronous orbit for my three little early career relay satellites. I had no option but to use the HG-5 antenna - just like in this video - putting two on each sat. because I thought they'd look a little cooler than if they only had one.
Man, I got that orbit so accurate, I was feeling really chuffed with myself, two satellites were literally as accurate with their orbital period, as KER would show, the third was 1/1000th of a second over. After patting myself on the back for the umpteenth time, I noticed something...
The green communications lines were coming out from the KSC alright, but there were none going from satellite to satellite. I started clicking on the icon at the top of the screen which turns on more pathways, but nope, those satellites just couldn't talk to each other. Not only that, but even if one was over a blackspot and another vessel with a C-16 antenna was flying through it, it couldn't relay a signal to it either!
So, if you have to build a network around Kerbin, don't shoot for a Keosynchronous orbit, if all you have is the HG-5 antenna. Maybe three would work, I haven't calculated that yet, and right now I'm too busy working on lowering the altitude of the three sats. I have in orbit to do so, but I would definitely recommend putting your coms. network in a much lower orbit than I did.
Great video, can you turn off or lower the music next time?
Is louder than you some of the time. Mainly the build music.
you dont have to calculate a phasing orbit, you can just release the satellites and send them out one by one in manuevers that look pretty close to a triangle.. the crucial bit is that they are as close as possible to the same apoapsis and periapsis should be pretty close to apoapsis.. within .1 tolerance i would say.. if theyre too far off you can adjust them with other maneuvers.. its how i got my one satellite keostationary.. i eyed that one too..
oh i see why you need a phasing orbit because youre already in the orbit apoapsis.. i was launching mine from kerbin leo.. ive actually never established a relay network around a moon..
I actually thought about this alot .. i was thinking about this orbit inclined 45 degrees itll give you coverage all over the body ..
So as a Long time ksp player, I saw this tutorial and it's pretty good, few things to mention is the precise mode for the rcs and using rcs to get that initial periapsis perfect, other than that good job
I'm really bad at using the precise mode for thrust. It's just a habit I've never gotten into for some reason.
Do they stay nicely apart even when you time warp a few years when going to eeloo for example?🤔
They'll remain in formation for a few years. After that, they may need some tweaking, but that isn't difficult to do.
im so confused about all the numbers.. what is the farthest that i could put the maxed out relays to still have good signal and then how far could i get another relay system? im thinking the first one would be in the dres orbit then the next one outside jool or sarnus (outer planets mod) but then from there each planet would need its own relay network.. but i dont really think each body needs its own network inside of kerbin.. but i dont know.. maybe each planet needs its own network? the kerbin system definitely doesnt need a network around each body.. probably the same for other planetary networks.. one network for each planetary system.. but even then when planets arent aligned.. im thinking of a full solar system relay network with full coverage 5 bars.. i work for verizon.. jk.. im just some kid looking for a wifi signal on eeloo..
Holy shit lower the game music it's louder than you!
Yup. Screwed up on the audio on this one.
@@MikeAben I was thinking the same thing, but I thought it was because I am not feeling well today., or due to tinnitus, or both. I turned my sound down, but it still seemed odd. Then I read this thread!
Please could you @MikeAben explain what I need to change if I wanted 4 or 5 or ‘n’ number of satellites, rather than just 3 ?
You just need to change the period of the phasing orbit. With three satellites, the phasing orbit period should be 1/3 more, or 1/3 less, than the period of the final orbit. For four satellites it would be 1/4, for n, 1/n.
I get more into the math of this in this video.
ruclips.net/video/gpQmvwU1x8c/видео.htmlsi=Z3_dzaljVp8tsAI_
Thank you good information
Hey, considering that those orbits aren't perfect, how many years it take to the relays connections be unstable? Is it like 10? 10,000?
Well let's see. I think I got the periods within a second of each other. The period is 12 hours, so a 1 second drift is 1/(12×60×60) of an orbit. Multipling by 360 degree gets a drift of 0.0083333 degrees per orbit. That's about 1.8 degrees per -day- year or 0.5 percent of a full rotation. They'll be fine for a while. In game rounding errors may come out to be more than that.
@@MikeAbenDo you mean 1.8 degrees per year right?
@@lucasrsarmento Yes, my mistake. I'll edit it to fix it.
Hi Mike. Big fan of these videos. Really helping me a lot with KSP. I wanted to ask you where I can find the Strobe Light effect on your spaceship. Its at the 1:18 mark that there's a strobe effect its really cool and I want to ask what Mob that is. Thank You again for posting and making this video. It really helps a lot of KSP beginners
I'm glad it helps. I'm hoping to get back to these kinds of videos soon. The mod is called Aviation Lights.
forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/173305-18x-aviation-lights-v410-16-october-2019/
Thanks
Thx for the help
You mentioned at the start it’s good to know the period of the orbit and that’s why you chose two days. But never explained why, could you elaborate?
It was fairly arbitrary. It just seemed an easy number, and actually, I have a later video that explains why it wasn't the best choice.
ruclips.net/video/gpQmvwU1x8c/видео.html
In that video, I explain why a period of 3 hours (alt of 377.35 km) is better. I am currently working on an updated tutorial to this one (actually, there'll be two) that will drop in about a week and a half.
Okay, but won't they eventually reach one another? There is no way for them to travel at a constant orbit and not change velocity or orbits??
I imagine the timescale for that to happen would be more than enough of a timescale for you to be able to figure out how to launch and correct an orbit of an existing satellite.
You have to go back and slightly adjust the orbits of the satellites every 10 years or so. Just put each relay into a longer or shorter orbit until it’s back in line with the others. and then put it back to its original orbital period.
Setting up relay networks is my favorite part of the game. Maintaining them as their orbits inevitably drift isn’t.
If it really bothers you, you can edit the save file (persistent.sfs) so that each satellite has the exact same semi-major axis (SMA). They will never drift again.
Just before decoupling the first relay, you had no connection from your main ship to kerbin. How did you keep control?
I had no connection because I was in the communication shadow of the Mun. On the default settings, you still have limited control in this situation so I could still decouple and raise antennas. Right after that, I popped out from behind the Mun and had full control.
@@MikeAben ah right, that rings a bell from when I was going over the settings of my recent save. Having that setting to always require a connection has bit me in the butt a couple times now.
@@DustPyro Typically, I do have it set to zero control without a connection in my games, but had it on the default settings for tutorials. This still would have worked. I would just have done further orbits until I had my connection at apoapsis.
@@MikeAben i just often forget to either put an antenna on my thing, or to extend before i’m out of range XD
Can probes be controlled by a ship? Like a ship in orbit with a kerbal pilot can have a signal to the probe on the surface without having a connection the space center?
That's a great question. I know the Remote Tech mod has that functionality, but to my knowledge stock does not. It would be a simple thing to have a part that would allow that.
If any of the orbital heights are off by any amount, there not going to be in the same places next year.
@Steel Wheel Absolutely. They will require the odd correction, but you'll be surprised how long they'll stay pretty close to the right place. With a bit of care, they shouldn't need any adjusting for another year or two.
@@MikeAben it might also work with just two satellites because the network path can go through ground a little
You won't get complete coverage, but it'll be alright. In my campaigns I usually take probes built for satellite contracts and re-purpose them as communication satellites. That means I'm putting them in their orbits one at a time. You get pretty descent coverage once you get to two.
I'm trying to rebuild the booster here but my rocket keeps flipping over. Seems like these are some old parts too in this video. Are you able to give me a part list for the booster?
Sorry, I don't have access to this craft file. I can say that the part specs haven't changed. If you're having trouble with it flipping out you can try larger/more tailfins and/or more reaction wheels.
I do have a newer video where I updated some things, especially the satellite design.
ruclips.net/video/18rO6Avm5FE/видео.html
@@MikeAben Very nice. I realized that you probably had the RC-L01 which I didn't have and thought that was the Advanced Reaction Wheel object soo... rookie move. I like the new video - I've been watching a lot of them.
Or you could launch a popcorn array of 108 comsats and spin it around on a polar orbit to the tune of 1812 Overture
can i ask.. what visual pack you use (not really visual i just dont know what it called)
This video is the stock game.
Work great ty
Hey, I'm late for the party! Thanks for the help, mate!
1 question, though... How do I "fix" my triangle? It took me too many attempts to circularize the sat's orbits and, as a result, I ended up with a non-equilateral triangle (two of the sats are on opposites sides of the Mun to each other and can't communicate). How do I fix that?
What you need to do is slow down, or speed up, one of the satellites and wait for it to be in the right position relative to the other satellite. You can then just return the orbit to what it was.
To slow down a satellite, you need to increase its orbital period by burning prograde to raise apoapsis (yes, it feels backwards - ain't orbital mechanics fun!). You do the opposite to speed up. The adjustment need only be a small one. I do it in a career game here - ruclips.net/video/Zg6OXbcEuNc/видео.html
Now I used the Kerbal Engineer mod to my advantage, but stock now gives you many of these tools too. I want to get back into these tutorials. This would be a good topic to cover.
@@MikeAben Thank you so much! I'll keep that in mind when I install the relay system again (I had the wrong antenna so I had to destroy it all *sigh*)
No problem. We've all been there.
Mike Aben… Did you use stock parts for the booster assembly? I have a full tree and cannot replicate what you have at all... especially the 2nd stage engine. I have nothing in my set of parts that even looks like that.
EDIT: Also, I'm using the exact same fairing as you but do not have the options that you do nor the ability to set interstage nodes. What mods are you using?
It's all stock. The second stage engine is the Poodle, which I believe has been remodeled since this episode first aired.
I am new guy to ksp could you tell me which engines do you use in this mission
Pleasee
The probes have linear RCS ports on them for propulsion. The transfer vehicle is powered by a RE-L10 Poodle, and the lifter looks like it has a RE-I5 Skipper. Some of these engines look different now because this is a pretty old video.
Awesome video.
Quick question: How does Communication apply in KSP? And does it apply in Sandbox
It has two effects in career and science mode. One, it adds a bonus to the amount of science that can be transmitted. This bonus is related to the strength of the signal. Without a link, you can't transmit at all. Also, the link effects your ability to control uncrewed probes. The effect is adjustable in the difficulty settings, including the ability to turn it off all together.
I think all this is irrelevant in sandbox, though I rarely play sandbox, so I'm not sure.
Does that small relay antenna really have a strong enough signal to return to kerbin?
My own experimentation with these Is that they are pretty much useless outside low kerbin orbit.
Am I doing something wrong?
What I showed here works fine. I'm using it in my own career game. It works fine for Minmus too given at least a tier 2 tracking station.
One error I did make (see the correction in the description) is that I put them in too high an orbit for a communitron 16 in low orbit (or on the surface) to communicate effectively. A better altitude would be 377.35 km.
Edited to add: Even with a tier 1 tracking station, the small relay should have about 96% signal strength around the Mun. Of course, when relaying, the other antenna is important too. Perhaps you did what I did and put it in too high an orbit.
... I did something even dummer, i forgot to extend the antenna on my lander. Well good to know these things actually work :)
@@MikeAben One question though: If I decide to use the 377 km altitude, my first Pe while before the phasing fase couldn't be the 565,65km marker, right?
@@dasLlamas_94 The problem with the 565.65 km is that a 565.65x377 orbit has a period of 3.76 hours. You want it to be 2 hours or 4 hours which are each 1/3 off from the final period of 3 hours. This has actually gotten easier since this video. KSP now gives you the period in the orbital information at the bottom left. Set your closest approach to 377.35 km. Then during your capture, burn until your orbital period is 4 hours. You will now be in the perfect phasing orbit.
I really got to do an updated video on this sometime.
I know it is an old vid but just started with KSP I get to the Mun but lose all connection so i cannot deploy the satellites :(
- You should still have a connection with the deployment vehicle as long as the Mun is not between you and Kerbin (that is, you are in the Mun's communication shadow). If aren't getting a connection no matter where you are in your orbit, make sure your antenna is raised. A single Communitron-16 should be enough.
- If you are losing your comm link when you get to apoapsis (like what almost happened to me at 14:28), then just keep riding around the orbit. As the Mun is orbiting Kerbin, you will get to a point when you will be at apoapsis and have a communication link at the same time.
If this isn't helping, let me know. Good luck!
@@MikeAben Many thanks for the reply, I did try it again but it seems to happen when kerbin rotates all the 1/2 way round, I lose all connection, I only have one launch site so could that be the reason as they are then on the dark side when i get near the mun ? do I have to place any on kerbin or around kerbin first ? Great Vid btw really did help me out a lot so far :)
I'm noticing for the first time that there is a toggle in the advanced difficulty settings for "Enable Extra Groundstations". If this is off, then you have no ground stations and would only be able to communicate if you have a line of sight with the KSC. That would explain what you're seeing. This setting is on for all the default difficulties (including hard), but perhaps you turned it off.
Other than that, I can't see what the problem might be, unless you don't have a raised antenna, but I assume you have that covered.
@@MikeAben well you know the obvious thing that I should have covered, well err Not forgot to raise the antenna, so I lose contact with the rocket and it's dead . Not sure what to say really about my KSP skills .....ahhahhahhhahahah. Many thanks and I now have a relay great tut. Btw !
"The Poles, boss, the Poles!"
You'll likely find you still have communication there. The game's pretty generous with surface occulation.
@@MikeAben I am running a comms mod, forgot the name, that is super strict apparently. I have to have 3 on equatorial and 3 on polar to cover the poles. I thought the normal game was that strict, too.
@@michaelbrininstool4515 No it isn't, though I've done the same set up as you for the same reason. In stock, the communication lines will go a bit into the ground. Not just through terrain, but below sea level.
While I hate doing it as I love finding something to complain about...😁 I again have to give you eleven out of ten for this video - fantastic stuff! Believe it or not but I never entirely mastered how to set up sub assemblies properly, I even learned that here!
One question, is there any advantage to using stack decouplers under the fairing? I tend to use separators myself as they completely break away from the vehicle, removing the now redundant piece of the truss assembly in the process.
Good idea on the separators. I tend to default to the decouplers as I hate leaving the debris behind.
@@MikeAben Where can I find it? It's not in the Tutorials playlist. Another question: How can I choose which probe core steers the rocket? My rocket kept tipping over right at launch until I realised I mounted the sats upside down and did not set the Control Point option to "reverse". But the final stage has it's own core so I can deorbit it, I'd like the game to use that core.
@@Kilian2 Sorry, where can you find what? As to the probe core issue, we've all done that. In fact, I had the same thing happen in my last stream. On the launch pad you can right click on any probe core and select "control from here". In the VAB, you can use the root part tool to make a different core the root part. That will make it the default control point.
@@MikeAben Sorry I somehow misplaced that comment. I already found the improved / more recent video about Relay Networks in your "absolute beginner" series.
Can you do this in a polar orbit and is there a advantage to this?
For communication satellites, no. If you are working with a mapping mod like SCANsat, however, you'd want a polar orbit.
Thank you sir
I don't seem to have the options to enable trusses on the fairing base. Are you using a mod?
No mods. All the tutorials I do are pure vanilla. Given the date of this video, this would have been version 1.2.2, and I just checked with the current version 1.3.1, and the options are there. Make sure you have an up to date version of the game.
Edited to add: This is also the PC version of the game, not the console version.
Mike Aben I have the steam version most up to date. I'll figure it out I suppose. Nice tutorials btw.
Thanks and good luck. It sounds like we have the exact same version going.
Mike Aben yeah I must of been trying some fairings from a mod. Figured it out now. Thanks.
What does the red line mean on the map?
When you look at the commnet I see some red lines with my green lines
The colour of the line indicates the strength of the communication link. Red is weak. In the description I posted a correction that these satelites are too high to communicated well with something in low Mun oribit with just a Communitron 16 and suggest a better altitude.
Thanks
Your voice reminds me of The 8 Bit Guy. (That's a complement btw.)
omg it ain't easy :'o
me doing it for nothing just to impress my parents🤣😝🤭🤫
Lmao when I need to do this network thing I'll just launch a bunch of them so I don't need to get the orbits exact or anything
As clever as this is, i dont know why he wouldn't do a polar orbit or an sso, enabling all three relays to have continuous comms with The kerban serface. 10/10 engineering but you lose points for your orbital trajectories.
Then again one of the most beautiful parts about this video and strategy is its very simplistic compared to multiple launches and eyeballing the orbital math to make sure they dont end up right next to eachother in orbit out of prop...
Hi, Josh. I'm a bit confused by your comment. Perhaps you can elaborate. I see no advantage to a polar orbit. At any one time a satellite in a polar orbit sees as much of the planet as a satellite at any other inclination. Also, what's an sso?
@@MikeAben sso is a solar synchronous orbit. Meaning your always facing the same direction while passing over the same spot, what i mean by that is have your orbit go from north pole, west pole, south pole, east pole repeat. Seeing as the moon is tidal locked in real life and ksp this means you will have coverage from all locations around your orbit, and when triangulated as demonstrated in the video, you have at least 2 satellites connectable in every direction
@@MikeAben like a fake lagrange point. Or like resting a spinning dinner plate on the orbit.
@@joshmckinlay88 Gotcha. That kind of orbit doesn't remain oriented that way for long without constant maintenance. After a quarter orbit about Kerbin (1.5 days) the plane of a satellite in such an orbit about the Mun would have rotated 90 degrees relative to the Mun, and will no longer function the way you want.
@@MikeAben ruclips.net/video/RfWT555PL74/видео.html
Why I don't understand.
I just got my first relay antenna into orbit.
I’ve played spaceflight simulator. So learning to orbit wasn’t hard
Congrats
Mike Aben thank you 😊
stop the music please
TRUSS STRUCTURE AND INTERSTAGE NODES!!!!! JESUS!!!!!! Thank you for THOSE!!!! Also, next time don't put 3 sats on your delivery vehicle. Only put 2. Take a look at what your delivery vehicle has on it. All you need to add is the antenna, and you can delete the communotron. Your delivery vehicle becomes the 3rd sat. You save most of the cost of a sat (and I say DAMN you build some expensive satellites!!!!! I think mine were about a 3rd that cost!!!!), and you no longer just toss away assets by slamming your delivery vehicle into the body. Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Why have I not seen your vids before?!?!?!? I've been watching Kerbal vids for over a year now. Oh, and turn off the Kerbal back ground music. It's way too damned loud. Thanks. And I'm subscribing.