I really am enjoying some bits of Rings, but a lot of it is just very meh for me. READ MY PUBLISHED WORK + GET ON WRITING AND WORLDBUILDING VOL II I linktr.ee/timhickson
One thing I liked in this episode was how they showed Aegon's isolation from everyone, I actually felt a little sorry for him, ngl. They didn't do it by following him, that would've been difficult given how unlikeable he is, but they did it by showing how people went about looking for him. First of all, he could just walk out of the Red Keep and no one even noticed. Second, when Aemond/Criston and the Twins were looking for him, they had to go looking for him in places where they knew he had been several years ago, Aemond mentioned he was quite young when Aegon took him to the brothel, and that child of Aegon's was at least 3/4 I would guess. So all the people who were supposed to care for/look out for Aegon, mum, grandad, brother, sister/wife, sworn protectors, literally none of them had an real idea a) that he had run off, or b) where he would run off to, and the one person who did know where he was had basically kidnapped him for her own benefit, and again, no one noticed. I thought it added an extra dimension to the crowd cheering for him, because that's probably the first time anyone had ever cheered for him in any way.
I know they’re probably going to just keep him as Diet Joffrey, but I would love it if Aegon wanted to be a kind of populist ruler who did what he thought the people would want him to do as they’re the ones who gave him love and respect, not his family. It would be an interesting contrast to Rhaenyra who is kind and gentle to people in her immediate circle but is regarded as Maegor with teats by the people while Aegon is a POS to people in his life but is loved by the smallfolk.
I’m not gonna lie as cool as it was to see, I started busting up laughing when the crowd started cheering for him and he straight mic dropped on every one 😂😂😂
I haven't read the book, so the Rhaenys moment felt like some visual foreshadowing. It was meant for Alicent, like, "Are you ready for THIS? Because this is the future you've brought upon yourself."
I'm still genuinely blown away by how much the show is exceeding my expectations. The quality is very much there. Alicent in particular is a highlight; jer "you imbecile" when Aegon asks if she loves him is SO GOOD. The hint of a smile and the implied "of course, you asshole. You're my son and I could never not love you, but you still fucking suck" do so much work. I'm really really excited for the finale and for future seasons.
One thing I liked about Rhaenys this episode is that (and I could be hugely off base) it felt like they were setting up this thing where emotionally, she might have wanted to ally with Alicent, get Driftmark for herself and her actual grandchildren Baela and Rhaena, especially when you consider that as recently as yesterday she appears to hate Rhaenyra and hold her responsible for Laenor's "death", but still ultimately chooses family loyalty and the duty she swore to for Rhaenyra and the Blacks, along with residual love for Viserys and his choice of heir. And I know a lot of people are upset she didn't end the Dance right then and there, but I really like that she couldn't bring herself to kill Alicent along with Aegon, that she felt a sort of kinship with her, or at least a softness that made her decide to spare Alicent and by extension, the rest of the people with her, even if it could have ended the conflict early. Also, her Girlbossing out of the Dragonpit certainly explains why the smallfolk might start to have an almost, shall we say, riotous distaste for dragons, especially if someone wasn't killed but mayhaps maimed in the chaos? Mayhaps lost a hand and gained a hatred of dragons, as it were?
The thing is that whole" sparing them " argument falls apart when she murders hundreds of innocent people why go through all that big spectacle if you aren't going to commit? What purpose does that serve ? Its so out of character for rhenys to do something so unnecessary when she could have just left right off the bat , but the problem with that is that happens without rhenys and it made since all this moment did was hurt rhenys character for the sake of a " cool " moment.
@@thatoneblackdude3333 I'm assuming she just needed a way out and the entry was blocked so A Calculation was made, plus in general we as humans are more likely to care about people we know personally than people we don't. Plus we do need some onscreen stuff to explain why the smallfolk are going to eventually act the way they do in events later on in the story, so having Rhaenys make a calculation of "fuck you got mine" and crash through the floor to get out works on that level too.
@@ameliebutler9104 except the Dragon pit has multiple exists the front isn't the only way in or out we saw this in the literal first episode, it's not just a matter of morals there literally no reason for her to leave that way she has multiple options it's completely illogical , but we do have on screen stuff for why they act the way they do later on or rather we will when we get to it everything is already established in the books There is no reason what so ever to do what they did in the end this was d&d logic and I thought we didn't tolerate that kind of thinking after season 8 .
For some reason, when I watched the episode, I didn't even question if Lord Beesbury's death could've been accidental - I just thought Criston intended to kill him. But it's actually ambiguous, huh?
Knowing that Criston's only solution to any discomfort or hiccup is extreme violence, I'd say Criston definitely did it on purpose. Just maybe not with a planned purpose.
I thought it was fun that the Green's meticulously planned coup d'etat almost fell apart because Aegon just didn't want to play his part. I also enjoyed the time we got with him and Aemond. I feel like so far the show done little to humanize any of the Greens and I'm glad we got this peek into their inner lives before everyone starts murdering each other in a bit.
I have not read the book, and I loved this episode. The overwhelming vibe was one of sadness and regret. Tragedy. At certain points you can almost see Alicent wondering whether she should have told her father about what she thought the King said before his death. Her father fed her these stories that Rhaenyra would kill her and her children, and rhen her father is revealed to have these exact plans for Rhaenyra. Her entire world view is called into question, then her own favoured bodyguard who she thought she had 'saved' just straight up murders an old man, not through a concious plan but through unchecked brutality. The feeling that everything is running away from her is really strong. If you look at figures like Anne Boleyn and Mary I and Mary Queen of Scots, they are all painted as evil and wicked by History. Elizabeth I had an iron grip on her public image, carefully crafting it to ensure she wouldnt suffer the same. It's only really in the past century we have started to look at these more critically.
This show is so fucking good. Are some episodes better than others? For sure but as far as I'm concerned there hasn't been a weak episode yet. Give me 3 minutes of old man Viserys walking up to the Throne over any big battle
“Mummy, when is daddy coming home from the coronation?” “Oh, sweetheart… unfortunately Princess Rhaenys wanted to have a Girlboss moment. We’ll never see most of our neighbours ever again.”
LOL it was ALOT more than simply a "girlboss" moment at all here. it’s not just that, That’s the way how this the world works! Even when the most moralists characters are there, they still end up doing heinous acts at times. And the amount of people she indirectly killed would have been in the hundreds at most, yeah but it’s not like she meant to do that. And it's VERY well established that most of the higher nobles don't care overall for the peasants lives as they see them as ants in their overall lives. That's the game of thrones world for you. And Rhaenys was sending a message for overall long term peace for both sides, yeah she could have ended it but needed a way out of there no matter what as the hightowers were LITERALLY hanging people who weren’t on her side. She made the right call, it was extreme, yeah, but it’s not like she had any other choice to save her life considering what Otto was doing here to those against his family.
@@Longshanks1690 She was trying to send off a message to the greens that she COULD have killed them all off but she didn't because she wanted the greens and the blacks to talk things over and establish future peace than just wipe each other out in war or outright slaughter. Obviously we know that doesn't work out like that but she doesn't. It's like the Ned Stark scenario when He gave Cersei and her children a chance to leave to save her life when he SHOULD have reported her in without giving her a heads up warning. It's the dramatic irony of the whole situation that leads to things going to hell because the characters wanted to find an alternative option but clearly that option didn't work as we know. That's why that scene was there.
@@Gadget-Walkmen Ned didn’t kill 300 people (minimum) before he made that offer to Cersei because the point is that he’s against senseless violence. Since Rhaenys isn’t opposed to violence - clearly - what is the purpose in merely threatening the Greens since she knows they’re not going to stand down? She knows they’re going to fight eventually so… why not go all the way? Why slaughter hundreds of innocents and not kill the people you actually need to?
I mean in my opinion the blood oath was equally as shitty there a bunch of backstabbing schemers not brothers in arms fighting some noble cause there scumbags and they know it .
Rhaenys would have been a Kingslayer and a Kinslayer if she burned them. And everyone would have saw her do it. The common people don't know about the power struggle, they would have just saw Rhaenys burn their new king and his family, thus giving more power to the Hightowers in Oldtown to get more support to get Aegon's son Jahaerys on the throne. Just her proving she thinks before she acts. She really would have been a good queen.
@@name7251 She doesn't care about the common people like that. None of the Royals or Nobles do. That's the point, no matter what side your on, the common people will ALWAYS suffer
I also liked David Lightbringer's take. The Rhaenys of the show is much more of a gray character - she's not an automatic Team Black. She's pursuing her own interests. So, yeah, she'll violently break free - because no one threatens or locks up the Blood of the Dragon. And she'll warn Rhaenyra. But she won't do Rhaenyra's wet work for her. She's not going down in history as a mass kinslayer just for Rhaenyra's sake.
her entering the dragonpit like that clearly shows the opposite. if she was thinking ahead she wouldnt have entered the crowning at all and just used one of the other exits
Knowing the structure of the dragon pit, it would have been much better if Rhaenys came out from the entrance of the dragon pit that way she would have been behind the stage of the coronation imagine as Alicent and Aegon looking behind them and see Meleys the red queen looming over them would have scared the people and we have the same interaction (the stare out). It looked cool for Rhaenys to come out of the dragon's pit like that but not good for the character she isn't Daemon, he is ruthless and wouldn't mind killing the peasants for praising Aegon.
@@LuisSierra42 it is out of character rhenys is a experienced Dragon rider she wouldn't do something so ridiculous when she has multiple exists available for her .
@@thatoneblackdude3333 I think the spectacle was the point. While I agree with you, I read it as Rhaenys throwing down the glove in grand display to let the ruling body know that this is what awaits you if you don’t abdicate the throne for the queen in waiting.
I saw someone mention the theory that Larys is able to warg into rats, and uses them as a way to spy, so I sort of though "the beast beneath the boards" might be her saying "the rat spy is listening, and isn't to be trusted". Then again, "he'll have to lose an eye first" doesn't really need much interpretation, so why should this one when a dragon literally burst from beneath the floor boards? I wonder if any of her family will be like "you know, she keeps saying oddly specific things that turn out to be true, and this morning she said 'dragon fire will come from above', so maybe we should keep an eye out today?"
The last scene could be seen as foreshadowing at the begining discontent the small folk have with dragons leading to the storming of the dragonpit later on
A few minor things stood out to me: 1. When Meleys came out, Alicent told Ser Criston to protect Helaena. She didn’t tell him to get Aegon (an obvious target) out of the way. That emphasizes how she prioritizes her kids. Whatever happens to Aegon happens to Aegon, and Aemond can fend for himself, but precious Helaena gets the full protection plan. 2. Otto being the only one with the sense to realize they do not want to be locked inside with a dragon. Rhys Ifans did very nice vocal work to make it a half-command/half-plea to open the gates. 3. When Aegon asks Alicent if she loves him, Alicent doesn’t say yes. Her response can be interpreted as “of course I do” but I think this woman cannot bring herself to say she loves this monster even if it is a lie.
I felt like she ordered Cole to protect Helaena because she's now the queen, whereas Aemond is just Aemond and with Aegon she already tried to protect him herself.
As someone who is getting his masters in history nice job. In all honesty fire and blood reads like precopius secret history vs his main histories. It’s this question of libel vs primary accounts that often blur
@@BooksRebound part of it was precopius main person at court was belasarius and Theodora and belasarius often butted heads a lot the only thing they could agree on was they cared about Justinian. Plus the secret history was just in case the dynasty falls and Roman history has a tendency to view women who own their sexuality as complete well tbh our society does the same so Theodora past as a prostitute didn’t go over well with Roman historians
I love the direction they're taking with Aemond One Eye. All I remember of him in the book is that he's a ruthless psychopath with an eye patch. He seems to be getting a lot of depth here and I can't wait to see where it goes.
Rhaenys coming up through the floor and killing a bunch of smallfolk was kinda weird...I think the same scene could have been had but with a few tweaks to make it more intense and less murdery. I was trying to think of why Rhaenys decides to side with Rhaenyra instead of taking Alicent up on her offer. By all accounts, what Alicent said is true - backing the Targaryens has cost her both her children, one of which she believes to have been murdered by Rhaenyra. I haven't read the book so I'm not sure if Rhaenys is still planning to try to take the throne for herself, but I wonder if it's because, between Rhaenyra and Alicent, she at least respects Rhaenyra's desire to take the iron throne for herself as a woman, and can't get behind Alicent, who is only trying to carve out a window in her prison.
13:38 Here goes: *Show* Rhaenys and her guards slipping into the pit through a hidden entrance or something. Have her convince the dragon keepers to free Maelys by appealing to their loyalty to Valeria and reminding them of their sacred oaths. Instead of turning the floor into powder and slaughtering civilians for no reason, a Keeper turns a crank, and the trap door to the lower pit yawns open in the middle of the ceremony. You can hear the growls and roars as the dragon climbs the ramp, panic ripples through the retenue and the crowd. People start fleeing the pit as Rhaenys and her dragon emerge, towering over the masses, roaring and w/e. Rhaenys and Alicent have their showdown. Rhae considers torching the plotters, but decides to leave in peace - either as a trusting gesture between mothers, or because she doesn't want to kill the people still trapped in the pit. Either way, *Alicent* orders the gates be open, and Rhaenys leaves. Plotting, Character development, complex loyalties, dragon spectacle, and no pointless mass-murder.
I think the Aegon thing should be a lesson to all those people naming their kids Aiden, Hayden, Brayden, Jayden, and Khaleesi (though if you named your kid that last one you've already learned a lesson). I'm so glad they made Alicent sympathetic in this episode; they could have made her so cold and calculating and instead she's the one trying not to take things to the extreme. These last two episodes really solidified the show as being good for me; I'm very excited for the next episode.
What the f* is wrong with those first 4 names? Aiden is an ancient gaelic name (and a really cool one tbh) while the others are pretty well established.
@@ilmari1452 They are too well established, like half the kids I've met have one of those names; and my friend who is a teacher has this kind of problem constantly.
I loved this episode. The call back to the light of the 7 theme set me on edge and kept me there. I cheered out loud when the dragon came thru the floor.
I personally enjoyed the episode but found it to have weaknesses uncharacteristic of the show so far. The small council scene was somewhat clunky in its dialogue with how the plotters just state they've been openly planning the coup. Also, Westerling walks out after it's stated no one is to leave? Beesbury's death in the books worked more for me (and damn I really missed the Blood Oath). Moreover, that ending left a sour taste. The moment was portrayed as heroic and badass, when I would've much preferred it focus on the lives taken by Rhaenys as perhaps a tragic, but internally justified action necessary for her to escape. The murder of hundreds of innocents being played as a side thought is not GRRM to me, and fully not in line with Rhaenys' characterisation to be so nonchalant with it.
That's interesting because I actually think this was my favorite episode so far, but I haven't read the book so I wasn't expecting anything. I do definitely agree that the Rhaenys scene bothered me, but I wouldn't say it goes against her characterization. We've seen how she treats her family, but when it comes to smallfolk I just assume that all early Targaryens were pretty casual about the lives of anyone who wasn't Valyrian or at least noble. Definitely made me dislike her though. As for the green council openly stating they were planning a coup, it is funny but I don't really see why they would hide it when the king was dead and all but two people in the room already knew about it.
@@brandf.7691 It's just the way they describe their own plans as darkling schemes, describing how their plan has long been set. Wouldn't it have been smarter for them to go along with it as a spontaneous occurrence. It's almost though as they're speaking their internal monologues out loud for the audience. I also think Alicent not knowing ANYTHING of these plans when Otto for YEARS has been saying to prepare Aegon to rule to her in private. Finally, on Rhaenys. I can understand her being a noble lady not having too much care for the smallfolk, but mass murder needs some serious internal justification from the character to be shown on screen not just head canon after the fact. I did enjoy the episode and still love, love, love the show. Which makes the flaws of this episode all the more frustrating, the scene wasn't necessary for me!!
@@inspectorpenguin4474 Hard disagree, for what the show has had to work with they've made a thoroughly compelling story. That is not an absence of writing talent.
The episode wasn’t what I thought it would be, but I’m kind of glad it wasn’t. I like that we got more time spent showing the take over and putting Aegon on the throne. It reminded me when Cersei had everything in place to ensure Joffrey took over, but we didn’t get to see what went into that since we were watching from Ned’s perspective. This time, we got to see all of it, from locking people up, forcing people to declare, trying to gain control of the heir. Funny enough, I think the very end was my least favorite part and that’s the part that’ll be most talked about and ultimately remembered from the episode. It was shocking, it was a badass moment and looked cool, but I also would’ve preferred it done in a different way.
I really loved Rhaenys bursting through the floors in the moment, but not so much after the episode ended and I calmed down. Since I haven't read the book, I was worried that maybe her death would be a sort of the first blood of the war. From her tense retreat through the castle, to being separated from the twin, and finally when they reach the dragon pit, I realized that was going to be her way out. Dead or alive lol. In hindsight, she would have been completely justified in killing them all from the political side. The blacks would benefit, so they probably wouldn't punish her either. It also seemed very weird to me that the *dragon pit* would just break like that. Why even have a pit if they can just break out at any time? I think it would've been cooler and made more sense if everyone just heard a dragon roar before seeing her fly away. It really felt like it was just giving us a small tease of the action that's coming next episode. The preview for the finale has me pretty hyped.
I found this to be a very appropriate 9th episode, actually. It has the cataclysmic event, Viserys's death and the following coup. And even knowing how all this would go, the tension was great, and seeing what sort of people we are dealing with here, truly, with Otto and Tyland and Criston just being full coup and fuck everyone, is necessary. Unlike the feet scene. I also kinda love how they pay at least a little attention to how the servants are treated here? Would have loved to get that perspective when Cersei took the throne. For some reason still unbeknownst to everyone. Aegon getting drunk on his own hype during the coronation was fucking terrifying, too.
I think what would've improved the showdown at the coronation would have been if as Rhaenys and Alicent are staring each other down, we hear a distant, deep, rumbling roar. And then a second roar. And then Rhaenys turns her head, eyes go wide, and then steers Meleys out the doors. This would act as a reminder that while the Blacks have the most dragons, this is a dance, and the greens have their own, while also being foreshadowing
I didn't love the Rhaenys change, for one because it introduced a totally unnecessary change - the Dragonpit has exits around the hill, she shouldn't have needed to burst through the floor (also Meleys barely fitting through the gate felt a little bit silly), and also because in this scenario she had an opportunity to do something, anything, to prevent the bloodshed that is now inevitable, and chose to do nothing. She just let everyone be, didn't accomplish anything. It felt like the writers were just itching to get that moment where the dragon bursts through and they have their girlboss stare down, rather than decisions that should have come naturally to those characters. Also, I didn't realize it until you said it, but I agree about Beesbury's death. In the book that scene was super tense with all the scheming and plotting, and Beesbury's death comes as a shock. In the show that scene felt comparatively devoid of tension, they were already planning to do everything and Allicent was just conveniently left out, Cole kills Lyman accidentally and then Lord Commander Westerling just "resigns" and walks out normally... It felt so neutered in comparison.
After so many returns from our friends in Seasons 1-4 like consistent characterisation and good writing, we’ve finally got our first cameo from S6; spectacle over sense.
Hey, Rhaenys does something! She kills a bunch of civilians for no reason and the show acts as though she's a moral paragon for not incinerating the plotters.
Most of what you said is right, but I will say that Meleys barely fit through the gate because it was like halfway closed and I don't think dragons generally fly until after they step outside of the Dragonpit anyway.
@@Longshanks1690 it definitely felt like season 6 shenanigans not quite 7 or 8 but it was needlessly dumb and the worst part is they could have done this in a way it makes since , instead of bursting from the floor Like the koolid man she escapes from another exist doubles back and enters from the front of the Dragon pit you can still have that stare down without rhenys being a war criminal for no reason.
Agree the Rhaenys dragon thing was kind of dumb. But her killing Alicent etc would have made no sense, so I don’t know why people are saying she should have done that. Rhaenys had no idea of everything that was to follow, and Alicent had been clear with her that she wanted no violence - her engaging in mass kin slaying (and king slaying) would have been bizarre. That bit made sense, even if the rest of her actions didn’t.
The long extended council scene at the start was great, and I honestly thought for a minute the entire episode was going to be locked in that room - and honestly I would have been there for it
The Rheanys moment was so good, and totallychanged my thoughts about her being solely passive and complainingin a corner.. It finally gave her character teeth (quite literally), and she's now someone to think about. The fact that she left them alive (I was shouting "Drakarys!" at my TV screen) gives her complexity and reminds everyone about the stakes of what is at hand. Very great moment. Loved it.
I really enjoy your breakdowns of these episodes. Not having read the book (But plan to soon), you give a good explanation of how they differ without revealing much of future events. Im a big fan of the other books so where they differentiate is always important! Not gonna lie, this last episode got me so excited to dive into this part of the story!
I think this show has given Martin a really fantastic opportunity to do storytelling in a novel way. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a show that has had a fake history book as the source material and the show itself be what actually happened and deliberately playing those things against each other. No wonder Martin can’t get Winds of Winter done; this is way more interesting.
The problem is she can’t be the one to do it. The truth is if this was about her staking her own claim she would be in the right. The problem is if she does it then it would she seen as kin slaying and being a king slayer
@@Longshanks1690 to be fair king Edward the first is seen as a great man of history because of how he finally brought wales into the English orbit and almost did the same with Scotland and he mass murdered both. But Rhaneys whole point is I can kill you but I won’t because it isn’t my right. Plus when has great men ever cared about casualties.
9:25 - I actually felt like they were trying to imply that some people(Otto's supporters?) may have been wanting to find Aegon to kill him and put Aemond on the throne instead, but Alicent's supporters were almost unwittingly racing to get to him first, except that Aemond himself is who gets a hold of Aegon first and is then faced with a will-he-or-won't-he moment where Aemond has to decide whether or not he will or wil-not put _HIMSELF_ on that throne instead of Aegon .. as we have seen his relationship with his older brother be fairly rocky and borderline-contentious with each other before in the past. (I mean, it is _strongly_ implied[ more than once] throughout the series that Aemond might kinda sort of actually covet Aegon's wife, too. 👀) So ..I felt like it was plenty tense. But, I haven't read the books, so I have no expectations aside from just whatever the episodes themselves build up. 😅🙃🤔 ^-^
I'll be honest, i really wanted to see Cole toss Beesbury out the window. But I did still love Beesbury talking and seeing cole, out of focus, appear behind him. it was a beautiful shot. otherwise I really loved this episode. i thought it was paced really well, nothing was rushed but they managed to get so much info and world building into it. i loved watching Aemond & Cole interact, I like how they built the twins characters. Melys busting through the floor does seem a little silly, but I do like Rhaenys taking the "high road" of not murdering them to say "hey, there's still a chance we can do this peacefully" and i think it'll paralel episode 10 really well
I had narrative sympathy for the Dragon scene, the episode had a lot of tension and setup, and I think if they ended it without any sort of release it could of spoiled a bit. In universe I take it as a moral victory for Rhaenys, she left on her terms and chose not to take part in Regicide. She showed Alicent what it really meant to be in control of your own life (and have a big Dragon). Though yes, i think on subsequent re-watches it'll probably get a bit annoying.
I cannot believe how much they're hinging on an accidental misunderstanding, both major screenwriting sins on their own, and to what end, to rob Alicent of agency before the episode about her gaining agency?
I felt the final scene was a gauntlet being thrown down by Rhaenys. Alicent asked her what her decision was and to ring the bell when Rhaenys made her choice. Rhaenys bursting through the floor of the coronation on dragon back and tempted to utter the phrase that could have ended the war before it even started but chose to be honorable and not be a kingslayer nor kinslayer (seeing as she too lost children and saw that in Alicent) was her answer.
I don’t know about any of you, but when she came crashing through the floor with that dragon, I became very aware that I was watching CGI, and this deflated the moment.
This episode did a really good job of giving the Greens the spotlight, and was the turning point for me considering Alicent. Up until now she has sort-of had that air of someone who is very good at maintaining propriety but has so much anger and resentment boiling just beneath the surface - What was accurately described as her 'Cloak of Righteousness'. But in this episode I could finally see her as a mother and a wife who loved her husband in at least some genuine capacity. And in the Council meeting I really saw how, like Viserys, she's torn between supporting who she sees as the rightful heir, but not wanting to see the House divided because of it. She hates how this Game has to be played, but she knows that she has to keep playing anyway - quitting is literally not an option. If I have one major grievance thus far it's how easily Cole keeps Getting Away With MURDER with seemingly no repercussions at all - My Suspension of Disbelief will not allow me to accept that there is anything Alicent could say or do to give him such impunity, and it's starting to feel very frustrating.
The sword crossing, the tapestry, proud Otto enjoying his life’s work, the veiled & somber Queen kissing his forehead, the Septons marking his forehead,.. "All Hail His Grace...King of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men"...finally justice done to the proclamation of a new Absolute Monarch in GoT. I was blown away by the details in the coronation. It felt like watching Nicholas II being crowned in an Orthodox ceremony with all the hollow pomp & circumstance of a rotting system. It's what I'd always envisioned from a GoT coronation. Tom Glynn-Carney was terrific in bringing out Aegon's fear, hesitation, pride & euphoria all at once. I'm glad they kept the much despised Criston putting the Conqueror's crown on Aegon II's head. The Kingmaker is born! What the show's doing really well is the details, down to splitting the treasury or locking up servants. Usually the passionate debates, the treachery, the heartbreak are glossed over & we only see the regime change as "fait accompli". This bring to life the mechanism that historically goes behind a coup, which I assume is as emotionally taxing for the people seizing power. That's why I like agonized & conflicted Alicent more than her steadfast source counterpart. It feels more flesh & blood. She vacillates but her messianic fear for her children fates her to make a cursed gamble.
(Non-reader) I liked that this episode was more low-key than expected. Wars don’t break out in an instant, and I appreciate that they’re being slow and deliberate with the ramifications of the king’s death and Alicent overhearing the prophecy. It also feeds into something I really like about House of the Dragon over Game of Thrones, which is that it feels more realistic *and* more fantastical at the same time. Without the looming threat of a Zombie army, and with the story being localized to one big family and a few locations, the story seems smaller and more coherent, while also feeling more magical and full of mythical figures because of the abundance of Targaryens and dragons. It’s much closer to the kind of fantasy I enjoy. Visuals are still too dark too often, though. I’ll be watching on my phone on max brightness in the dark and *still* be unable to make out what’s happening in some scenes.
I think the thing that could have really helped with the Rhaenys scene would have been having Sunfyre come to defend Aegon. Now only would it have made Rhaenys leaving without ending the war before it started make a lot more sense, it would also show off what is supposedly Aegon's one positive quality, his love and bond with his dragon. To be honest though, I think they should have had Rhaenys just sneak out through another exit and leave, and just show the shadow of Melys flying over the crowd as they cheer for the Aegon
The Rhaenys moment was the coolest scene in television in a while, but I think it creates a logical hole in the story. The whole dance of dragons could have been avoided if Rhaenys just dracaried the whole green council right there and then. It was clear by that point that a civil war was inevitable, so not taking action just doesn’t make sense to me.
I feel like we got to let go of the "the episode 9 is crazy everyone will die" GOT trope. The death of Viserys was always gonna be followed by the coup and Aegon's coronation. No need to have a Red wedding episode, and crazy shit will happen in the next episode.
I haven't read the book but I do know some of the latter plot points, so (spoilers) I think having the dragon burst out through the floor is a good way to set up for the common folk eventually destroying the dragon pit. they'll be able to point back to this event and all the death and terror of it as a reason to hate the dragons with a passion. the entire city was scared shitless by that, that's the kind of fear you need to get normal people to charge into a hole and attack a dragon later on
I really didn't think I was going to care about Aegon after showing him as a rapist, still the series managed to show some sadness of his life. I love how people describe the show as "Root for your favorite terrible person or war criminal!" I'm super hyped!
I was just glad to finally see a recognizable version of Alicent. Her older version has been so out of character, it almost seems inconsistent to see her acting like a caring and kind person with her own moral compass; AKA the defining characteristics of this version of her.
My thoughts on Rhaenys killing some common people when she broke out, she didn’t WANT to do that. She would have left peacefully with Meleys with zero casualties if she was allowed. The greens held her hostage, imprisoning her and imprisoning her dragon. By busting through the floor and showing violence she is sending the message “I didn’t want to do violence, but I will if I am forced to, so don’t screw with me” and I loved that moment, it was chilling.
I have no idea how anyone could interpret the scene that way after her stone cold flex to Alicent. Clear text of that scene is that Rhaenys doesn’t give a damn about anyone lacking noble blood, and neither do the writers, given how cool they made her look doing it
@@kiera_rdh6697 I mean ... Rhaenys straight up mudered dozens of people, showed no remorse, and when she had chance to end the war right then ... she just flexed. If she'd killed Alicent's kids I could at least say "that was awful, but maybe it was what she had to do to stop a war" ... but if she's murdering a bunch of people to fly away to Dragonstone and tell Rhaenyra ... then she knows a civil war is coming where thousands more people are going to die. How else am I supposed to read this other than "she doesn't care" or "the writers wanted a cool dragon moment, internal logic be damned?"
@@TheJadedJames The show runners have said they want to make both sides morally grey so we’re not sure who we want to root for. So they’re doing that. Are you team green now that rhaenys is a mass murderer? She’s killed more people now than all of the greens combined. Rhaenys isn’t us, she hasn’t read the books, she can’t see the future. She’s been afraid of civil war breaking out for 20 years and it hasn’t happened yet, so she’s hoping to avoid all out war. So many people in this show and GoT have killed (or been directly responsible for the deaths of) innocent people and have been relentlessly defended. Tyrion, Jon, Danaerys, Daemon, and more. It’s okay to have fantasy moments in a fantasy dragon show.
The fact that episode 9 was not a twist episode, but a meh episode, successfully subverted your expectations. The twist is that there is no twist, but not having a twist on episode 9 is a twist on itself, so great twist.
I think it would've been better if we'd ended right after the coronation and gotten a shot of Meleys flying off into the distance. Rhaenys' scene was unnecessary and I hope this isn't a sign of them going for the spectacle just because they can
I actually saw the beast beneath the boards remark as doubly interpretable. Because when I saw them taking Aegon from on the the altar piece I thought “thats the beast beneath the boards” (it is actually made of wood unlike the dragon pit’s floor). But yea….then the actual, not metaphorical, beast arrived later.
Rhaenys’s scene ROCKED. I cheered so loud Scared the pets. (Sorry, smallfolk). Something about her going from basically an old woman, stripped of power, in fear for her life, to *that* absolutely my favorite scene in any show for years. Older women don’t get those scenes in Hollywood ever, so it absolutely rocked!
I already commented this last week but Aegon became useless because he was never given a role. Much like Ned was going to give Jon a keep but didn't, so he decided he had to join the Night's Watch because there was no other place for him. Aegon could have been given some land and a title and been content, instead of waiting around for his dad to find him worthy enough of being named Heir. He realized that nothing he did would be good enough, so what does it matter if he's a reprobate instead?
I liked the direction went with the episode, short of another timeskip there’s no way they could have justified going straight to all out war especially with Alicent having opened her heart to Rhaenyra last episode
I mean its medieval monarchical society, the act of crowning Aegon was in and of itself an act of war against Rhaenyra. In this sort of setting no other justification is really needed.
i think the last scene is a set up for the preacher figure who shows up later and riles up the lower class in kings landing... in that spirit it is again showing how the smallfolk is just butchered left and right without even getting focus on them... and i can get behind that it just feels a little bit clunky if this is the direction they are going for. Other than that i enjoyed the episode... but damn that cole guy
I really don’t understand rahneys going full daneryus (yea I know I’m butchering these names) and killing a bunch of innocent people than deciding not to kill the Hightowers. The only thing I can figure is it means she’s doing her own thing now. She’s gonna take the driftwood throne and not take the side of green or black
Alicent's conviction was more her own conscience clearing exercise than some simplistic "i was not gonna do coup. but I believe the king's words. so I must do coup". I thought the show made that clear as the default reaction of everyone being that of laughter and immediate weaponization of the information to propagandize the masses. It never came off as Alicent was trying to convince them. It came off as Alicent was trying to convince herself that the usurption was the morally correct thing to do. Which is absolutely brilliant and goes right along with Rhaenyra's description of cloak of moral righteousness that the show that has been highlighting for a while. It is a far more subtle take of the character than "the wh0re is pregnant" Alicent. I love it.
My brother thought the foot scene was too much, but then I reminded him how many times we've seen Rape and Incest in this show and GoT. The foot stuff is comparatively mild.
For me the whole thing with Rhaenys might be set up for two things to come in the future. The first would be the reason why she fights for the blacks. While in the books it’s quite possible she did believe Rhaenyra’s three eldest sons were in fact her grandsons (because in the book Rhaenys has the black hair of her Baratheon mother) and that was her motivation for fighting with Rhaenyra, in the show it’s shows us she’s well aware that the boys aren’t her grandchildren so there has to be another reason she fights and this could be it. After the events at Storms End she might feel guilty that she didn’t end the greens when she had the chance and therefore her guilt becomes a motivating factor for her character. After all it’s not the first time in GOT that we have seen a character’s good intentions cause bloodshed for them and others down the road. The second reason is because the mass death in the pit could be a metaphor for how the common people are often caught in the crosshairs of the squabbles of the royals and nobles. As well this could be a motivating factor for the people of the city to turn on the dragons in an event that will happen later in the dance ( book readers probably know which one I’m talking about)
First and foremost, I love your videos. The way you analyze and discuss the writing within fantasy *chef's kiss*. Second, this show was slow for me at first bc of my trust issues after GoT but honestly, it has really picked up. Even with a slower episode 9, it made sense to build on these characters. I love how the show writers have showed the dynamics of both parties. And though it was not in the books, I am a sucker for dragon scenes and the girl boss scene was awesome
It felt wierd to me that Rheanys didn't kill the Greens right then and there. If they made Aegon's dragon 'Sunfyre' a part of the coronation, it would've made more sense for Rheanys to abruptly leave. Since she would've started an unwinnable indoor 1v1.
I don't think so, because as long as Viserys is alive but incapacitated, the Hightowers have a free and unchallenged right to rule the Seven Kingdoms. It is in Hightower interest to keep him alive as long as possible
Tom Glynn-Carney and Olivia Cooke were too good in their roles here. Glynn-Carney completely surprised me how well he displayed all the various range of feelings Aegon was feeling prior to and into the coronation. At last a worthy monarch crowning ceremony in the GoT universe. This episode is worth it just for that ceremony alone. the chase for aegon shows how important that renly ned "we need to get joffrey in our hands" conversation was. i know some purists wanted criston's speech...but i was impressed by what he had. watching reactors have such a visceral loathing for the guy anytime he opens his mouth...they're doing his role perfectly. Criston is inciting Olly levels of hatred. amazing. Rhaenys not killing a chunk of her family is completely logical but the scene was too MCU and I definitely would not have done it. But it should not take way from how good the rest of the episode was.
I’ve really been enjoying your weekly reviews of this show. It gives me an appreciation of what the show is doing in relation to the book, without spoilers. 👍🏻 plus all of your great analysis which we probably take for granted at this point.
Otto: Coup time! Let's kill everyone except our own cronies! Alicent: Has anyone seen Aegon? Otto: 😖 Sir Cristen: Sorry, I heard 'kill everyone' and got a little carried away... Helaena: A dragon's going to come through the floor, btw. Alicent: Hush dear, the adults are talking. I'm not mocking the show, btw, I absolutely love it.
I’ve actually grown a lot more sympathetic towards Alicent in this last episode- all while growing to hate the rest of the greens even more than I previously thought possible (especially Otto god damn)
Alicent hearing what she wanted to hear from the ramblings of a dying and drugged old man really made me and the GF dislike her again after starting to feel sympathy for her. She starts a bloody civil war just because of it and she knows it ffs
I actually really liked the tension of episode 9, it was very different than usual. It was the tension filled "who's going to find Aegon first? How will that influence Aegon's rise to the throne?"
Their dynamic is basically identical. The main difference being that Viserys was a kind and honorable man, whereas Aegon is a f*cking r*pist. And of course, Aemond is much more serious than Daemon ever was. I don't think pirate bo burnham has ever smiled.
The one gripe I have with Alicent’s reading of the kings last words is, why does she think it’s only her son that viserys was talking about, for all she knows viserys could have been talking about rhaenyra’s new son whom he just met. If she was confronted about it I feel like she could have easily been persuaded to see she misread wht he said.
Because she knows Rhaenyra’s sons are illegitimate and doesn’t want the throne to pass to them, no matter what Viserys had decreed. Their son is the true heir and of course she thought of her Aegon before any other. I do think she (as shown in HotD) would’ve let Rhaenyra inherit because she knew Viserys wanted peace to be his legacy, but any hint that he really wanted what she KNOWS to be right (legally & morally) was enough to sway her into leading the plan her father had been weaving all along behind her back.
@@NotSkynut Little Aegon is a legitimate child of course. But Viserys' legal heir is still his oldest son, Aegon II. Like Rhaegar's real heir was Jon (considering he was legitimate), not Dany.
@@cagdas135 I don’t think aegon the elder is viserys’ legal heir by any means. When Viserys was king basically he could choose anyone he wanted within reason to be the heir and had the full authority to do so. He made rhaenyra his heir and she’s the legal heir because of that. Aegon would be the traditional heir but inheritance can always be decided before the death of someone.
@@NotSkynut Nah, unless you have a source I missed, Viserys didn't have the authority to override the law. The Great Council firmly established that women can't inherit. And kings are not above law as you can see from many examples in Westeros and real life. Viserys didn't have the authority to name Rhaenyra as his heir.
With what we know about her priorities and given the opportunity, I think Rhaenys absolutely would've ended the war before it even began. Aegon and Aemond represents absolute danger to her grandaughters. They're just engaged to Rhaenyra's boys, they are main targets in the coming war. In my opnion, for that amazing scenne to really hit home, neither of Visery's heirs should have stayed there. Aegon could easily run away the moment Meleys broke through "the boards" like a perfect coward and Aemond hidden, wating for a perfect moment to strike. For the dragon to get distracted so he could go for its rider. With that setup, Rhaenys choices would've been much more equivalent. In one hand, she would have the heads of some of the main conspirators, like Alicent, Otto, Kriston Cole and, even, Haelena (forgotten there by her husband), but would unknowingly open herself to Aemond's attack. On the other hand, she could realize that no real gain would be had by killing some greedy old men and a mother protecting her daughter, like she wish she could have done for her own children. For a moment everybody would stand still. Aemond secretly creeping ever closer. All wating for the edict of the Queen Who Never Was.
While I read the books and I was not a fan of Rhaenys scene at dragonpit, I really enjoyed this "episodes 9" not being a spectacle, rather an stressfull and opressive downfall of political tension and personal motivations🔥
Did not see the scene at the end coming but I was blown away by it. Was it in character for Rhaenys to squash a few hundred smallfolk? Well, we don't really know her enough to say for sure, but I thought it would not have been her first option.
I liked this episode. I kinda liked that it was essentially just everyone scampering, trying to race and get ahead of the news before the news even officially got outed at all.
"everything u feel for me….as ur queen." I can't handle that level of palpable sexual tension lol. Ironic cause in a way they are the cersei and jaime of this show lol.the last 3 mins aside,i thought this was an excellent episode. it felt like a white house political thriller with a "race against time" feel from start to finish suspense. When Otto was moving around these chess pieces, Beesbury screaming, Caswell hanging..I was on the edge of my seat. I knew how good it was when it had reactors already coping for compeuppance lol. Tom Glynn-Carney showed excellent range as Aegon. But it got overshadowed by 3 mins of a Rhaenys "happy ending" smdh lmao. This crowning ceremony was a visual historygasm, finally befitting a king in got verse. All the actors for Otto, Alicent, Aegon did a great job. And that "window in the wall of your prison" line is one of the best lines of series we've heard so far.
I like Rhaenys in the dragonpit. It’s a proper ”screw you” to the greens, but it also shows that she’s not willing to mercilessly incinerate the less guilty among the usurpers (Helaena and Alicent), nor obliterate _too_ many of the smallfolk to quickly end the war. Additionaly, it shows us she’s a dragonrider, and provides an explaination as to how she got Meleys out of the city (it’s not like there is a guest-dragon parking lot). But I suppose they could have shown that during the prince hunt, but I liked that they locked her up during that. As it took her frustration to a whole new level.
@@MRJTD99 lol not even close at all. You make absolutely NO sense at all as the writers do NOT “prEfEr sPecTacuLe oVeR sEnSe” at all as nothing you’ve said here makes any sense here in the slightest. Just step down as the scene DOES make sense completely. No one here is “rEachInG” here other than yourself. Just stop!
Idk why people thought the hunt for Aegon was pointless. There was a LOT of character info present in that part of the episode that's necessary to really have feelings about what comes next. And come on, Aemond and Aegon fighting in front of all of those people was pretty funny. I liked Rhaenys coming up through the floor and not caring about the deaths of the smallfolk. One of the main points of asoiaf is that the smallfolk have a terrible life then die because of the nobles and that doesn't change no matter who is on the throne!
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One thing I liked in this episode was how they showed Aegon's isolation from everyone, I actually felt a little sorry for him, ngl. They didn't do it by following him, that would've been difficult given how unlikeable he is, but they did it by showing how people went about looking for him. First of all, he could just walk out of the Red Keep and no one even noticed. Second, when Aemond/Criston and the Twins were looking for him, they had to go looking for him in places where they knew he had been several years ago, Aemond mentioned he was quite young when Aegon took him to the brothel, and that child of Aegon's was at least 3/4 I would guess.
So all the people who were supposed to care for/look out for Aegon, mum, grandad, brother, sister/wife, sworn protectors, literally none of them had an real idea a) that he had run off, or b) where he would run off to, and the one person who did know where he was had basically kidnapped him for her own benefit, and again, no one noticed.
I thought it added an extra dimension to the crowd cheering for him, because that's probably the first time anyone had ever cheered for him in any way.
I know they’re probably going to just keep him as Diet Joffrey, but I would love it if Aegon wanted to be a kind of populist ruler who did what he thought the people would want him to do as they’re the ones who gave him love and respect, not his family.
It would be an interesting contrast to Rhaenyra who is kind and gentle to people in her immediate circle but is regarded as Maegor with teats by the people while Aegon is a POS to people in his life but is loved by the smallfolk.
well they did cheer for him at his second name day kings wood hunt but is not like hell remember that xd
This would be cool…if not for the whole sexual assault of his servants thing.
I feel sorry for him, but also not. He is a huge douchebag, betting on fights between his own bastard children and r*ping handmaiden.
I’m not gonna lie as cool as it was to see, I started busting up laughing when the crowd started cheering for him and he straight mic dropped on every one 😂😂😂
I haven't read the book, so the Rhaenys moment felt like some visual foreshadowing. It was meant for Alicent, like, "Are you ready for THIS? Because this is the future you've brought upon yourself."
Hey this is a great interpretation! I just took it as a warning but it’s definitely a sign to things to come
I felt that moment was pretty badass
"Instead of killing you now, and saving who knows how many lives, including my own, I'm gonna kill you later!"
Stupid.
@@MRJTD99 killing a king is not the same as killing commoners, she might have been dismissive of civilian lives but she hesitated commiting regicide
@@LuisSierra42 Kinslaying as well. She's related to all of Alicent's children. Just not sure how. Targaryen families are very complicated. 😁
Aemond's _physique du rôle_ is incredible. His chin and nose look tailor made to be a shounen anime character.
I'm still genuinely blown away by how much the show is exceeding my expectations. The quality is very much there. Alicent in particular is a highlight; jer "you imbecile" when Aegon asks if she loves him is SO GOOD. The hint of a smile and the implied "of course, you asshole. You're my son and I could never not love you, but you still fucking suck" do so much work. I'm really really excited for the finale and for future seasons.
One of my favorite things in this episode was when Alicent rolled her eyes at her father because there were just no words. Her face was priceless.
One thing I liked about Rhaenys this episode is that (and I could be hugely off base) it felt like they were setting up this thing where emotionally, she might have wanted to ally with Alicent, get Driftmark for herself and her actual grandchildren Baela and Rhaena, especially when you consider that as recently as yesterday she appears to hate Rhaenyra and hold her responsible for Laenor's "death", but still ultimately chooses family loyalty and the duty she swore to for Rhaenyra and the Blacks, along with residual love for Viserys and his choice of heir.
And I know a lot of people are upset she didn't end the Dance right then and there, but I really like that she couldn't bring herself to kill Alicent along with Aegon, that she felt a sort of kinship with her, or at least a softness that made her decide to spare Alicent and by extension, the rest of the people with her, even if it could have ended the conflict early.
Also, her Girlbossing out of the Dragonpit certainly explains why the smallfolk might start to have an almost, shall we say, riotous distaste for dragons, especially if someone wasn't killed but mayhaps maimed in the chaos? Mayhaps lost a hand and gained a hatred of dragons, as it were?
The thing is that whole" sparing them " argument falls apart when she murders hundreds of innocent people why go through all that big spectacle if you aren't going to commit? What purpose does that serve ? Its so out of character for rhenys to do something so unnecessary when she could have just left right off the bat , but the problem with that is that happens without rhenys and it made since all this moment did was hurt rhenys character for the sake of a " cool " moment.
@@thatoneblackdude3333 I'm assuming she just needed a way out and the entry was blocked so A Calculation was made, plus in general we as humans are more likely to care about people we know personally than people we don't. Plus we do need some onscreen stuff to explain why the smallfolk are going to eventually act the way they do in events later on in the story, so having Rhaenys make a calculation of "fuck you got mine" and crash through the floor to get out works on that level too.
@@ameliebutler9104 except the Dragon pit has multiple exists the front isn't the only way in or out we saw this in the literal first episode, it's not just a matter of morals there literally no reason for her to leave that way she has multiple options it's completely illogical , but we do have on screen stuff for why they act the way they do later on or rather we will when we get to it everything is already established in the books There is no reason what so ever to do what they did in the end this was d&d logic and I thought we didn't tolerate that kind of thinking after season 8 .
@@thatoneblackdude3333 No one cares. It was a fine scene and GoT haters try to make it something that it isn't
For some reason, when I watched the episode, I didn't even question if Lord Beesbury's death could've been accidental - I just thought Criston intended to kill him. But it's actually ambiguous, huh?
Criston is too strong
I mean Criston definitely didn't seem surprised when the man's skull split open
🐝
In the books Criston totally meant it, but the show made it look more like an accident
Knowing that Criston's only solution to any discomfort or hiccup is extreme violence, I'd say Criston definitely did it on purpose. Just maybe not with a planned purpose.
I thought it was fun that the Green's meticulously planned coup d'etat almost fell apart because Aegon just didn't want to play his part. I also enjoyed the time we got with him and Aemond. I feel like so far the show done little to humanize any of the Greens and I'm glad we got this peek into their inner lives before everyone starts murdering each other in a bit.
I have not read the book, and I loved this episode. The overwhelming vibe was one of sadness and regret. Tragedy. At certain points you can almost see Alicent wondering whether she should have told her father about what she thought the King said before his death. Her father fed her these stories that Rhaenyra would kill her and her children, and rhen her father is revealed to have these exact plans for Rhaenyra. Her entire world view is called into question, then her own favoured bodyguard who she thought she had 'saved' just straight up murders an old man, not through a concious plan but through unchecked brutality. The feeling that everything is running away from her is really strong.
If you look at figures like Anne Boleyn and Mary I and Mary Queen of Scots, they are all painted as evil and wicked by History. Elizabeth I had an iron grip on her public image, carefully crafting it to ensure she wouldnt suffer the same. It's only really in the past century we have started to look at these more critically.
This show is so fucking good. Are some episodes better than others? For sure but as far as I'm concerned there hasn't been a weak episode yet. Give me 3 minutes of old man Viserys walking up to the Throne over any big battle
“Mummy, when is daddy coming home from the coronation?”
“Oh, sweetheart… unfortunately Princess Rhaenys wanted to have a Girlboss moment. We’ll never see most of our neighbours ever again.”
LOL it was ALOT more than simply a "girlboss" moment at all here. it’s not just that, That’s the way how this the world works! Even when the most moralists characters are there, they still end up doing heinous acts at times. And the amount of people she indirectly killed would have been in the hundreds at most, yeah but it’s not like she meant to do that. And it's VERY well established that most of the higher nobles don't care overall for the peasants lives as they see them as ants in their overall lives. That's the game of thrones world for you. And Rhaenys was sending a message for overall long term peace for both sides, yeah she could have ended it but needed a way out of there no matter what as the hightowers were LITERALLY hanging people who weren’t on her side. She made the right call, it was extreme, yeah, but it’s not like she had any other choice to save her life considering what Otto was doing here to those against his family.
@@Gadget-Walkmen Why didn’t she leave via the cavern we see Syrax go into in episode one?
@@Longshanks1690 She was trying to send off a message to the greens that she COULD have killed them all off but she didn't because she wanted the greens and the blacks to talk things over and establish future peace than just wipe each other out in war or outright slaughter. Obviously we know that doesn't work out like that but she doesn't.
It's like the Ned Stark scenario when He gave Cersei and her children a chance to leave to save her life when he SHOULD have reported her in without giving her a heads up warning. It's the dramatic irony of the whole situation that leads to things going to hell because the characters wanted to find an alternative option but clearly that option didn't work as we know. That's why that scene was there.
@@Gadget-Walkmen Ned didn’t kill 300 people (minimum) before he made that offer to Cersei because the point is that he’s against senseless violence.
Since Rhaenys isn’t opposed to violence - clearly - what is the purpose in merely threatening the Greens since she knows they’re not going to stand down? She knows they’re going to fight eventually so… why not go all the way? Why slaughter hundreds of innocents and not kill the people you actually need to?
@@Longshanks1690 Because it was probably guarded?
The smallfolk will remember "The beast beneath the boards".
We traded Larys's blood oath for his foot fetish...
I mean in my opinion the blood oath was equally as shitty there a bunch of backstabbing schemers not brothers in arms fighting some noble cause there scumbags and they know it .
I thought it was … fitting lol
Rhaenys would have been a Kingslayer and a Kinslayer if she burned them. And everyone would have saw her do it. The common people don't know about the power struggle, they would have just saw Rhaenys burn their new king and his family, thus giving more power to the Hightowers in Oldtown to get more support to get Aegon's son Jahaerys on the throne. Just her proving she thinks before she acts. She really would have been a good queen.
Ahh yes, wouldn't want the small folks to have bad opinion of her *crushes hundreds of them for a flex*
@@name7251 She doesn't care about the common people like that. None of the Royals or Nobles do. That's the point, no matter what side your on, the common people will ALWAYS suffer
I also liked David Lightbringer's take. The Rhaenys of the show is much more of a gray character - she's not an automatic Team Black. She's pursuing her own interests. So, yeah, she'll violently break free - because no one threatens or locks up the Blood of the Dragon. And she'll warn Rhaenyra. But she won't do Rhaenyra's wet work for her. She's not going down in history as a mass kinslayer just for Rhaenyra's sake.
An usurperslayer and a kinslayer.
her entering the dragonpit like that clearly shows the opposite. if she was thinking ahead she wouldnt have entered the crowning at all and just used one of the other exits
Knowing the structure of the dragon pit, it would have been much better if Rhaenys came out from the entrance of the dragon pit that way she would have been behind the stage of the coronation imagine as Alicent and Aegon looking behind them and see Meleys the red queen looming over them would have scared the people and we have the same interaction (the stare out).
It looked cool for Rhaenys to come out of the dragon's pit like that but not good for the character she isn't Daemon, he is ruthless and wouldn't mind killing the peasants for praising Aegon.
Exactly her coming from the floor while cool was ridiculous and out of character
@@thatoneblackdude3333 i wouldn't say out of character tho. More like something she wouldn't do under normal circumstances
@@LuisSierra42 it is out of character rhenys is a experienced Dragon rider she wouldn't do something so ridiculous when she has multiple exists available for her .
@@thatoneblackdude3333 except if what she wants is not to get out but to intimidate the greens
@@thatoneblackdude3333 I think the spectacle was the point. While I agree with you, I read it as Rhaenys throwing down the glove in grand display to let the ruling body know that this is what awaits you if you don’t abdicate the throne for the queen in waiting.
The scene with Meleys and Rhaenys is meant to start stoking the fires for the eventual storming of the dragonpit imo
I saw someone mention the theory that Larys is able to warg into rats, and uses them as a way to spy, so I sort of though "the beast beneath the boards" might be her saying "the rat spy is listening, and isn't to be trusted". Then again, "he'll have to lose an eye first" doesn't really need much interpretation, so why should this one when a dragon literally burst from beneath the floor boards? I wonder if any of her family will be like "you know, she keeps saying oddly specific things that turn out to be true, and this morning she said 'dragon fire will come from above', so maybe we should keep an eye out today?"
The last scene could be seen as foreshadowing at the begining discontent the small folk have with dragons leading to the storming of the dragonpit later on
I’ll be rooting for the small folk
@@TheJadedJames I mean some of them bet on child fights I think I'm alright with a few biting the big one
A few minor things stood out to me:
1. When Meleys came out, Alicent told Ser Criston to protect Helaena. She didn’t tell him to get Aegon (an obvious target) out of the way. That emphasizes how she prioritizes her kids. Whatever happens to Aegon happens to Aegon, and Aemond can fend for himself, but precious Helaena gets the full protection plan.
2. Otto being the only one with the sense to realize they do not want to be locked inside with a dragon. Rhys Ifans did very nice vocal work to make it a half-command/half-plea to open the gates.
3. When Aegon asks Alicent if she loves him, Alicent doesn’t say yes. Her response can be interpreted as “of course I do” but I think this woman cannot bring herself to say she loves this monster even if it is a lie.
To be fair, Alicent says "get Helaena" but she physically puts herself in front of Aegon. She does love him, she just doesn't express it.
She jumped in front of the dragon to save Aegon, how can you interpret this as her prioritizing Aegon the least???
I felt like she ordered Cole to protect Helaena because she's now the queen, whereas Aemond is just Aemond and with Aegon she already tried to protect him herself.
@@Mwezi828 no she likes what Aegon can bring her - power
she does not love him in a motherly way, just what she can gain by having him
@@azlanadil3646 really? claiming that Viserys wanted Aegon to rule and crowning him behind Rhaenyra’s back is the definition of power hungry
As someone who is getting his masters in history nice job. In all honesty fire and blood reads like precopius secret history vs his main histories. It’s this question of libel vs primary accounts that often blur
@@BooksRebound part of it was precopius main person at court was belasarius and Theodora and belasarius often butted heads a lot the only thing they could agree on was they cared about Justinian. Plus the secret history was just in case the dynasty falls and Roman history has a tendency to view women who own their sexuality as complete well tbh our society does the same so Theodora past as a prostitute didn’t go over well with Roman historians
I love the direction they're taking with Aemond One Eye. All I remember of him in the book is that he's a ruthless psychopath with an eye patch. He seems to be getting a lot of depth here and I can't wait to see where it goes.
I really liked the Rhaenys moment, it felt like she saw all the symbols in the ceremony and came back with her own show of targaryan strength
Rhaenys coming up through the floor and killing a bunch of smallfolk was kinda weird...I think the same scene could have been had but with a few tweaks to make it more intense and less murdery.
I was trying to think of why Rhaenys decides to side with Rhaenyra instead of taking Alicent up on her offer. By all accounts, what Alicent said is true - backing the Targaryens has cost her both her children, one of which she believes to have been murdered by Rhaenyra. I haven't read the book so I'm not sure if Rhaenys is still planning to try to take the throne for herself, but I wonder if it's because, between Rhaenyra and Alicent, she at least respects Rhaenyra's desire to take the iron throne for herself as a woman, and can't get behind Alicent, who is only trying to carve out a window in her prison.
Meh
13:38 Here goes:
*Show* Rhaenys and her guards slipping into the pit through a hidden entrance or something. Have her convince the dragon keepers to free Maelys by appealing to their loyalty to Valeria and reminding them of their sacred oaths.
Instead of turning the floor into powder and slaughtering civilians for no reason, a Keeper turns a crank, and the trap door to the lower pit yawns open in the middle of the ceremony. You can hear the growls and roars as the dragon climbs the ramp, panic ripples through the retenue and the crowd. People start fleeing the pit as Rhaenys and her dragon emerge, towering over the masses, roaring and w/e.
Rhaenys and Alicent have their showdown. Rhae considers torching the plotters, but decides to leave in peace - either as a trusting gesture between mothers, or because she doesn't want to kill the people still trapped in the pit.
Either way, *Alicent* orders the gates be open, and Rhaenys leaves.
Plotting, Character development, complex loyalties, dragon spectacle, and no pointless mass-murder.
I think the Aegon thing should be a lesson to all those people naming their kids Aiden, Hayden, Brayden, Jayden, and Khaleesi (though if you named your kid that last one you've already learned a lesson). I'm so glad they made Alicent sympathetic in this episode; they could have made her so cold and calculating and instead she's the one trying not to take things to the extreme. These last two episodes really solidified the show as being good for me; I'm very excited for the next episode.
What the f* is wrong with those first 4 names? Aiden is an ancient gaelic name (and a really cool one tbh) while the others are pretty well established.
@@ilmari1452 They are too well established, like half the kids I've met have one of those names; and my friend who is a teacher has this kind of problem constantly.
I loved this episode. The call back to the light of the 7 theme set me on edge and kept me there. I cheered out loud when the dragon came thru the floor.
I personally enjoyed the episode but found it to have weaknesses uncharacteristic of the show so far. The small council scene was somewhat clunky in its dialogue with how the plotters just state they've been openly planning the coup. Also, Westerling walks out after it's stated no one is to leave? Beesbury's death in the books worked more for me (and damn I really missed the Blood Oath).
Moreover, that ending left a sour taste. The moment was portrayed as heroic and badass, when I would've much preferred it focus on the lives taken by Rhaenys as perhaps a tragic, but internally justified action necessary for her to escape. The murder of hundreds of innocents being played as a side thought is not GRRM to me, and fully not in line with Rhaenys' characterisation to be so nonchalant with it.
Yea the green council is a major downgrade from the books really disappointing
That's interesting because I actually think this was my favorite episode so far, but I haven't read the book so I wasn't expecting anything.
I do definitely agree that the Rhaenys scene bothered me, but I wouldn't say it goes against her characterization. We've seen how she treats her family, but when it comes to smallfolk I just assume that all early Targaryens were pretty casual about the lives of anyone who wasn't Valyrian or at least noble. Definitely made me dislike her though.
As for the green council openly stating they were planning a coup, it is funny but I don't really see why they would hide it when the king was dead and all but two people in the room already knew about it.
I dunno what show you’ve been watching but the writing has always been mid AF.
@@brandf.7691 It's just the way they describe their own plans as darkling schemes, describing how their plan has long been set. Wouldn't it have been smarter for them to go along with it as a spontaneous occurrence. It's almost though as they're speaking their internal monologues out loud for the audience.
I also think Alicent not knowing ANYTHING of these plans when Otto for YEARS has been saying to prepare Aegon to rule to her in private.
Finally, on Rhaenys. I can understand her being a noble lady not having too much care for the smallfolk, but mass murder needs some serious internal justification from the character to be shown on screen not just head canon after the fact.
I did enjoy the episode and still love, love, love the show. Which makes the flaws of this episode all the more frustrating, the scene wasn't necessary for me!!
@@inspectorpenguin4474 Hard disagree, for what the show has had to work with they've made a thoroughly compelling story. That is not an absence of writing talent.
The episode wasn’t what I thought it would be, but I’m kind of glad it wasn’t. I like that we got more time spent showing the take over and putting Aegon on the throne. It reminded me when Cersei had everything in place to ensure Joffrey took over, but we didn’t get to see what went into that since we were watching from Ned’s perspective. This time, we got to see all of it, from locking people up, forcing people to declare, trying to gain control of the heir. Funny enough, I think the very end was my least favorite part and that’s the part that’ll be most talked about and ultimately remembered from the episode. It was shocking, it was a badass moment and looked cool, but I also would’ve preferred it done in a different way.
I really loved Rhaenys bursting through the floors in the moment, but not so much after the episode ended and I calmed down. Since I haven't read the book, I was worried that maybe her death would be a sort of the first blood of the war. From her tense retreat through the castle, to being separated from the twin, and finally when they reach the dragon pit, I realized that was going to be her way out. Dead or alive lol.
In hindsight, she would have been completely justified in killing them all from the political side. The blacks would benefit, so they probably wouldn't punish her either. It also seemed very weird to me that the *dragon pit* would just break like that. Why even have a pit if they can just break out at any time? I think it would've been cooler and made more sense if everyone just heard a dragon roar before seeing her fly away. It really felt like it was just giving us a small tease of the action that's coming next episode. The preview for the finale has me pretty hyped.
I found this to be a very appropriate 9th episode, actually. It has the cataclysmic event, Viserys's death and the following coup. And even knowing how all this would go, the tension was great, and seeing what sort of people we are dealing with here, truly, with Otto and Tyland and Criston just being full coup and fuck everyone, is necessary. Unlike the feet scene.
I also kinda love how they pay at least a little attention to how the servants are treated here? Would have loved to get that perspective when Cersei took the throne. For some reason still unbeknownst to everyone.
Aegon getting drunk on his own hype during the coronation was fucking terrifying, too.
I think what would've improved the showdown at the coronation would have been if as Rhaenys and Alicent are staring each other down, we hear a distant, deep, rumbling roar. And then a second roar. And then Rhaenys turns her head, eyes go wide, and then steers Meleys out the doors.
This would act as a reminder that while the Blacks have the most dragons, this is a dance, and the greens have their own, while also being foreshadowing
I didn't love the Rhaenys change, for one because it introduced a totally unnecessary change - the Dragonpit has exits around the hill, she shouldn't have needed to burst through the floor (also Meleys barely fitting through the gate felt a little bit silly), and also because in this scenario she had an opportunity to do something, anything, to prevent the bloodshed that is now inevitable, and chose to do nothing. She just let everyone be, didn't accomplish anything. It felt like the writers were just itching to get that moment where the dragon bursts through and they have their girlboss stare down, rather than decisions that should have come naturally to those characters.
Also, I didn't realize it until you said it, but I agree about Beesbury's death. In the book that scene was super tense with all the scheming and plotting, and Beesbury's death comes as a shock. In the show that scene felt comparatively devoid of tension, they were already planning to do everything and Allicent was just conveniently left out, Cole kills Lyman accidentally and then Lord Commander Westerling just "resigns" and walks out normally... It felt so neutered in comparison.
After so many returns from our friends in Seasons 1-4 like consistent characterisation and good writing, we’ve finally got our first cameo from S6; spectacle over sense.
Hey, Rhaenys does something!
She kills a bunch of civilians for no reason and the show acts as though she's a moral paragon for not incinerating the plotters.
Most of what you said is right, but I will say that Meleys barely fit through the gate because it was like halfway closed and I don't think dragons generally fly until after they step outside of the Dragonpit anyway.
@@Longshanks1690 it definitely felt like season 6 shenanigans not quite 7 or 8 but it was needlessly dumb and the worst part is they could have done this in a way it makes since , instead of bursting from the floor Like the koolid man she escapes from another exist doubles back and enters from the front of the Dragon pit you can still have that stare down without rhenys being a war criminal for no reason.
Agree the Rhaenys dragon thing was kind of dumb. But her killing Alicent etc would have made no sense, so I don’t know why people are saying she should have done that. Rhaenys had no idea of everything that was to follow, and Alicent had been clear with her that she wanted no violence - her engaging in mass kin slaying (and king slaying) would have been bizarre. That bit made sense, even if the rest of her actions didn’t.
I loved it when Rhaenys came smashing through the floor I was thinking that's where it was headed and I was so happy to see it actually happen
I really loved the episode 9 head flip they did. Also the piano track they had was 🔥
The long extended council scene at the start was great, and I honestly thought for a minute the entire episode was going to be locked in that room - and honestly I would have been there for it
The Rheanys moment was so good, and totallychanged my thoughts about her being solely passive and complainingin a corner.. It finally gave her character teeth (quite literally), and she's now someone to think about. The fact that she left them alive (I was shouting "Drakarys!" at my TV screen) gives her complexity and reminds everyone about the stakes of what is at hand. Very great moment. Loved it.
What about the people she trampled?
It made no fucking sense
I really enjoy your breakdowns of these episodes. Not having read the book (But plan to soon), you give a good explanation of how they differ without revealing much of future events. Im a big fan of the other books so where they differentiate is always important! Not gonna lie, this last episode got me so excited to dive into this part of the story!
I think this show has given Martin a really fantastic opportunity to do storytelling in a novel way. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a show that has had a fake history book as the source material and the show itself be what actually happened and deliberately playing those things against each other. No wonder Martin can’t get Winds of Winter done; this is way more interesting.
Having read the book I have to say that Rhaenys could spare soooo much bloodshed just with one word. One. Word.
The problem is she can’t be the one to do it. The truth is if this was about her staking her own claim she would be in the right. The problem is if she does it then it would she seen as kin slaying and being a king slayer
@@ianyork2655 Because being seen as a mass murderer is so much more preferable in contrast.
@@Longshanks1690 to be fair king Edward the first is seen as a great man of history because of how he finally brought wales into the English orbit and almost did the same with Scotland and he mass murdered both. But Rhaneys whole point is I can kill you but I won’t because it isn’t my right. Plus when has great men ever cared about casualties.
True, she could, but the only person who thinks and does stuff like that is Bloodraven. Good thing he never had a dragon.
If only she'd read the book
9:25 - I actually felt like they were trying to imply that some people(Otto's supporters?) may have been wanting to find Aegon to kill him and put Aemond on the throne instead, but Alicent's supporters were almost unwittingly racing to get to him first, except that Aemond himself is who gets a hold of Aegon first and is then faced with a will-he-or-won't-he moment where Aemond has to decide whether or not he will or wil-not put _HIMSELF_ on that throne instead of Aegon .. as we have seen his relationship with his older brother be fairly rocky and borderline-contentious with each other before in the past. (I mean, it is _strongly_ implied[ more than once] throughout the series that Aemond might kinda sort of actually covet Aegon's wife, too. 👀) So ..I felt like it was plenty tense. But, I haven't read the books, so I have no expectations aside from just whatever the episodes themselves build up. 😅🙃🤔 ^-^
I'll be honest, i really wanted to see Cole toss Beesbury out the window. But I did still love Beesbury talking and seeing cole, out of focus, appear behind him. it was a beautiful shot.
otherwise I really loved this episode. i thought it was paced really well, nothing was rushed but they managed to get so much info and world building into it. i loved watching Aemond & Cole interact, I like how they built the twins characters.
Melys busting through the floor does seem a little silly, but I do like Rhaenys taking the "high road" of not murdering them to say "hey, there's still a chance we can do this peacefully" and i think it'll paralel episode 10 really well
I had narrative sympathy for the Dragon scene, the episode had a lot of tension and setup, and I think if they ended it without any sort of release it could of spoiled a bit. In universe I take it as a moral victory for Rhaenys, she left on her terms and chose not to take part in Regicide. She showed Alicent what it really meant to be in control of your own life (and have a big Dragon).
Though yes, i think on subsequent re-watches it'll probably get a bit annoying.
"girlbossing the small folk" is the best description god damn!!! XD #TeamSmallFolk
I cannot believe how much they're hinging on an accidental misunderstanding, both major screenwriting sins on their own, and to what end, to rob Alicent of agency before the episode about her gaining agency?
I felt the final scene was a gauntlet being thrown down by Rhaenys. Alicent asked her what her decision was and to ring the bell when Rhaenys made her choice.
Rhaenys bursting through the floor of the coronation on dragon back and tempted to utter the phrase that could have ended the war before it even started but chose to be honorable and not be a kingslayer nor kinslayer (seeing as she too lost children and saw that in Alicent) was her answer.
I don’t know about any of you, but when she came crashing through the floor with that dragon, I became very aware that I was watching CGI, and this deflated the moment.
This episode did a really good job of giving the Greens the spotlight, and was the turning point for me considering Alicent. Up until now she has sort-of had that air of someone who is very good at maintaining propriety but has so much anger and resentment boiling just beneath the surface - What was accurately described as her 'Cloak of Righteousness'. But in this episode I could finally see her as a mother and a wife who loved her husband in at least some genuine capacity. And in the Council meeting I really saw how, like Viserys, she's torn between supporting who she sees as the rightful heir, but not wanting to see the House divided because of it. She hates how this Game has to be played, but she knows that she has to keep playing anyway - quitting is literally not an option.
If I have one major grievance thus far it's how easily Cole keeps Getting Away With MURDER with seemingly no repercussions at all - My Suspension of Disbelief will not allow me to accept that there is anything Alicent could say or do to give him such impunity, and it's starting to feel very frustrating.
The sword crossing, the tapestry, proud Otto enjoying his life’s work, the veiled & somber Queen kissing his forehead, the Septons marking his forehead,.. "All Hail His Grace...King of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men"...finally justice done to the proclamation of a new Absolute Monarch in GoT. I was blown away by the details in the coronation. It felt like watching Nicholas II being crowned in an Orthodox ceremony with all the hollow pomp & circumstance of a rotting system. It's what I'd always envisioned from a GoT coronation. Tom Glynn-Carney was terrific in bringing out Aegon's fear, hesitation, pride & euphoria all at once. I'm glad they kept the much despised Criston putting the Conqueror's crown on Aegon II's head. The Kingmaker is born! What the show's doing really well is the details, down to splitting the treasury or locking up servants. Usually the passionate debates, the treachery, the heartbreak are glossed over & we only see the regime change as "fait accompli". This bring to life the mechanism that historically goes behind a coup, which I assume is as emotionally taxing for the people seizing power. That's why I like agonized & conflicted Alicent more than her steadfast source counterpart. It feels more flesh & blood. She vacillates but her messianic fear for her children fates her to make a cursed gamble.
Renly Strong answers the question we all had: What if Littlefinger liked little toes?
(Non-reader) I liked that this episode was more low-key than expected. Wars don’t break out in an instant, and I appreciate that they’re being slow and deliberate with the ramifications of the king’s death and Alicent overhearing the prophecy. It also feeds into something I really like about House of the Dragon over Game of Thrones, which is that it feels more realistic *and* more fantastical at the same time. Without the looming threat of a Zombie army, and with the story being localized to one big family and a few locations, the story seems smaller and more coherent, while also feeling more magical and full of mythical figures because of the abundance of Targaryens and dragons. It’s much closer to the kind of fantasy I enjoy.
Visuals are still too dark too often, though. I’ll be watching on my phone on max brightness in the dark and *still* be unable to make out what’s happening in some scenes.
This is the best coronation ceremony I've seen in a fantasy series.
I think the thing that could have really helped with the Rhaenys scene would have been having Sunfyre come to defend Aegon. Now only would it have made Rhaenys leaving without ending the war before it started make a lot more sense, it would also show off what is supposedly Aegon's one positive quality, his love and bond with his dragon. To be honest though, I think they should have had Rhaenys just sneak out through another exit and leave, and just show the shadow of Melys flying over the crowd as they cheer for the Aegon
The Rhaenys moment was the coolest scene in television in a while, but I think it creates a logical hole in the story. The whole dance of dragons could have been avoided if Rhaenys just dracaried the whole green council right there and then. It was clear by that point that a civil war was inevitable, so not taking action just doesn’t make sense to me.
I feel like we got to let go of the "the episode 9 is crazy everyone will die" GOT trope. The death of Viserys was always gonna be followed by the coup and Aegon's coronation. No need to have a Red wedding episode, and crazy shit will happen in the next episode.
My mom is a complete normie and her favorite part of the episode was the dragon busting through the floor
I haven't read the book but I do know some of the latter plot points, so (spoilers) I think having the dragon burst out through the floor is a good way to set up for the common folk eventually destroying the dragon pit. they'll be able to point back to this event and all the death and terror of it as a reason to hate the dragons with a passion. the entire city was scared shitless by that, that's the kind of fear you need to get normal people to charge into a hole and attack a dragon later on
I really didn't think I was going to care about Aegon after showing him as a rapist, still the series managed to show some sadness of his life. I love how people describe the show as "Root for your favorite terrible person or war criminal!" I'm super hyped!
Congrats on the Wikifeet page! You've really made it 🙌
I was just glad to finally see a recognizable version of Alicent. Her older version has been so out of character, it almost seems inconsistent to see her acting like a caring and kind person with her own moral compass; AKA the defining characteristics of this version of her.
My thoughts on Rhaenys killing some common people when she broke out, she didn’t WANT to do that. She would have left peacefully with Meleys with zero casualties if she was allowed. The greens held her hostage, imprisoning her and imprisoning her dragon. By busting through the floor and showing violence she is sending the message “I didn’t want to do violence, but I will if I am forced to, so don’t screw with me” and I loved that moment, it was chilling.
I have no idea how anyone could interpret the scene that way after her stone cold flex to Alicent. Clear text of that scene is that Rhaenys doesn’t give a damn about anyone lacking noble blood, and neither do the writers, given how cool they made her look doing it
@@TheJadedJames I find it fascinating how so many people can watch the exact same thing and have entirely different interpretations.
@@kiera_rdh6697 I mean ... Rhaenys straight up mudered dozens of people, showed no remorse, and when she had chance to end the war right then ... she just flexed. If she'd killed Alicent's kids I could at least say "that was awful, but maybe it was what she had to do to stop a war" ... but if she's murdering a bunch of people to fly away to Dragonstone and tell Rhaenyra ... then she knows a civil war is coming where thousands more people are going to die. How else am I supposed to read this other than "she doesn't care" or "the writers wanted a cool dragon moment, internal logic be damned?"
@@TheJadedJames The show runners have said they want to make both sides morally grey so we’re not sure who we want to root for. So they’re doing that. Are you team green now that rhaenys is a mass murderer? She’s killed more people now than all of the greens combined. Rhaenys isn’t us, she hasn’t read the books, she can’t see the future. She’s been afraid of civil war breaking out for 20 years and it hasn’t happened yet, so she’s hoping to avoid all out war. So many people in this show and GoT have killed (or been directly responsible for the deaths of) innocent people and have been relentlessly defended. Tyrion, Jon, Danaerys, Daemon, and more. It’s okay to have fantasy moments in a fantasy dragon show.
The fact that episode 9 was not a twist episode, but a meh episode, successfully subverted your expectations. The twist is that there is no twist, but not having a twist on episode 9 is a twist on itself, so great twist.
Episode 10 will make up for it.
It weird isn't it ? Episode 9 is supposed to be the big episode but this one was not nearly as big as previously episode 9s.
I think it would've been better if we'd ended right after the coronation and gotten a shot of Meleys flying off into the distance. Rhaenys' scene was unnecessary and I hope this isn't a sign of them going for the spectacle just because they can
I actually saw the beast beneath the boards remark as doubly interpretable. Because when I saw them taking Aegon from on the the altar piece I thought “thats the beast beneath the boards” (it is actually made of wood unlike the dragon pit’s floor). But yea….then the actual, not metaphorical, beast arrived later.
Rhaenys’s scene ROCKED. I cheered so loud Scared the pets. (Sorry, smallfolk). Something about her going from basically an old woman, stripped of power, in fear for her life, to *that* absolutely my favorite scene in any show for years. Older women don’t get those scenes in Hollywood ever, so it absolutely rocked!
I already commented this last week but Aegon became useless because he was never given a role. Much like Ned was going to give Jon a keep but didn't, so he decided he had to join the Night's Watch because there was no other place for him. Aegon could have been given some land and a title and been content, instead of waiting around for his dad to find him worthy enough of being named Heir. He realized that nothing he did would be good enough, so what does it matter if he's a reprobate instead?
I liked the direction went with the episode, short of another timeskip there’s no way they could have justified going straight to all out war especially with Alicent having opened her heart to Rhaenyra last episode
I mean its medieval monarchical society, the act of crowning Aegon was in and of itself an act of war against Rhaenyra. In this sort of setting no other justification is really needed.
@@icarus7198 I meant narratively, the writers had to show us how various people dealt with this situation and specifically how Alicent dealt with it
i think the last scene is a set up for the preacher figure who shows up later and riles up the lower class in kings landing... in that spirit it is again showing how the smallfolk is just butchered left and right without even getting focus on them... and i can get behind that it just feels a little bit clunky if this is the direction they are going for. Other than that i enjoyed the episode... but damn that cole guy
Tarantino was like 👀👀👀👀👀👀
I really don’t understand rahneys going full daneryus (yea I know I’m butchering these names) and killing a bunch of innocent people than deciding not to kill the Hightowers. The only thing I can figure is it means she’s doing her own thing now. She’s gonna take the driftwood throne and not take the side of green or black
Alicent's conviction was more her own conscience clearing exercise than some simplistic "i was not gonna do coup. but I believe the king's words. so I must do coup". I thought the show made that clear as the default reaction of everyone being that of laughter and immediate weaponization of the information to propagandize the masses. It never came off as Alicent was trying to convince them. It came off as Alicent was trying to convince herself that the usurption was the morally correct thing to do. Which is absolutely brilliant and goes right along with Rhaenyra's description of cloak of moral righteousness that the show that has been highlighting for a while. It is a far more subtle take of the character than "the wh0re is pregnant" Alicent. I love it.
My brother thought the foot scene was too much, but then I reminded him how many times we've seen Rape and Incest in this show and GoT. The foot stuff is comparatively mild.
For me the whole thing with Rhaenys might be set up for two things to come in the future.
The first would be the reason why she fights for the blacks. While in the books it’s quite possible she did believe Rhaenyra’s three eldest sons were in fact her grandsons (because in the book Rhaenys has the black hair of her Baratheon mother) and that was her motivation for fighting with Rhaenyra, in the show it’s shows us she’s well aware that the boys aren’t her grandchildren so there has to be another reason she fights and this could be it. After the events at Storms End she might feel guilty that she didn’t end the greens when she had the chance and therefore her guilt becomes a motivating factor for her character. After all it’s not the first time in GOT that we have seen a character’s good intentions cause bloodshed for them and others down the road.
The second reason is because the mass death in the pit could be a metaphor for how the common people are often caught in the crosshairs of the squabbles of the royals and nobles. As well this could be a motivating factor for the people of the city to turn on the dragons in an event that will happen later in the dance ( book readers probably know which one I’m talking about)
You’re thinking too deep. The writer said it was for spectacle.
First and foremost, I love your videos. The way you analyze and discuss the writing within fantasy *chef's kiss*. Second, this show was slow for me at first bc of my trust issues after GoT but honestly, it has really picked up. Even with a slower episode 9, it made sense to build on these characters. I love how the show writers have showed the dynamics of both parties. And though it was not in the books, I am a sucker for dragon scenes and the girl boss scene was awesome
It felt wierd to me that Rheanys didn't kill the Greens right then and there. If they made Aegon's dragon 'Sunfyre' a part of the coronation, it would've made more sense for Rheanys to abruptly leave. Since she would've started an unwinnable indoor 1v1.
I can't shake the feeling that Hightower (Otto) was secretly poisoning Viserys to quicken his illness.
I thought that before the time jumps, but 16 years is one heck of a long game
I don't think so, because as long as Viserys is alive but incapacitated, the Hightowers have a free and unchallenged right to rule the Seven Kingdoms. It is in Hightower interest to keep him alive as long as possible
Tom Glynn-Carney and Olivia Cooke were too good in their roles here. Glynn-Carney completely surprised me how well he displayed all the various range of feelings Aegon was feeling prior to and into the coronation. At last a worthy monarch crowning ceremony in the GoT universe. This episode is worth it just for that ceremony alone. the chase for aegon shows how important that renly ned "we need to get joffrey in our hands" conversation was. i know some purists wanted criston's speech...but i was impressed by what he had. watching reactors have such a visceral loathing for the guy anytime he opens his mouth...they're doing his role perfectly. Criston is inciting Olly levels of hatred. amazing. Rhaenys not killing a chunk of her family is completely logical but the scene was too MCU and I definitely would not have done it. But it should not take way from how good the rest of the episode was.
I’ve really been enjoying your weekly reviews of this show. It gives me an appreciation of what the show is doing in relation to the book, without spoilers. 👍🏻 plus all of your great analysis which we probably take for granted at this point.
Otto: Coup time! Let's kill everyone except our own cronies!
Alicent: Has anyone seen Aegon?
Otto: 😖
Sir Cristen: Sorry, I heard 'kill everyone' and got a little carried away...
Helaena: A dragon's going to come through the floor, btw.
Alicent: Hush dear, the adults are talking.
I'm not mocking the show, btw, I absolutely love it.
Congratulations for being notable enough to be on the ultimate foot wiki page!
I thought she was talking about the dragon but some are saying she was talking about aegons hiding place and that he is the beast
I’m pretty sure the floor of the dragonpit is stone, so “boards” is an odd way to describe that. I think you may be right
I’ve actually grown a lot more sympathetic towards Alicent in this last episode- all while growing to hate the rest of the greens even more than I previously thought possible (especially Otto god damn)
Alicent hearing what she wanted to hear from the ramblings of a dying and drugged old man really made me and the GF dislike her again after starting to feel sympathy for her. She starts a bloody civil war just because of it and she knows it ffs
I thought the "beast beneath the boards" was Aegon himself. Or the White Worm
I think the moment with Rhaenys was a bit of forshadowing... for another moment with dragons... and smallfolk... in the Dragonpit...
I actually really liked the tension of episode 9, it was very different than usual. It was the tension filled "who's going to find Aegon first? How will that influence Aegon's rise to the throne?"
It's gonna be interesting to see how Aegon and pirate Bo Burnham's relationship is gonna mirror Viserys and Daemon's.
Their dynamic is basically identical. The main difference being that Viserys was a kind and honorable man, whereas Aegon is a f*cking r*pist. And of course, Aemond is much more serious than Daemon ever was. I don't think pirate bo burnham has ever smiled.
The one gripe I have with Alicent’s reading of the kings last words is, why does she think it’s only her son that viserys was talking about, for all she knows viserys could have been talking about rhaenyra’s new son whom he just met. If she was confronted about it I feel like she could have easily been persuaded to see she misread wht he said.
Because she knows Rhaenyra’s sons are illegitimate and doesn’t want the throne to pass to them, no matter what Viserys had decreed. Their son is the true heir and of course she thought of her Aegon before any other.
I do think she (as shown in HotD) would’ve let Rhaenyra inherit because she knew Viserys wanted peace to be his legacy, but any hint that he really wanted what she KNOWS to be right (legally & morally) was enough to sway her into leading the plan her father had been weaving all along behind her back.
@@alisaurus4224 aegon is the first true born though, ( I’m talking about the baby aegon btw)
@@NotSkynut Little Aegon is a legitimate child of course. But Viserys' legal heir is still his oldest son, Aegon II. Like Rhaegar's real heir was Jon (considering he was legitimate), not Dany.
@@cagdas135 I don’t think aegon the elder is viserys’ legal heir by any means. When Viserys was king basically he could choose anyone he wanted within reason to be the heir and had the full authority to do so. He made rhaenyra his heir and she’s the legal heir because of that. Aegon would be the traditional heir but inheritance can always be decided before the death of someone.
@@NotSkynut Nah, unless you have a source I missed, Viserys didn't have the authority to override the law. The Great Council firmly established that women can't inherit. And kings are not above law as you can see from many examples in Westeros and real life. Viserys didn't have the authority to name Rhaenyra as his heir.
With what we know about her priorities and given the opportunity, I think Rhaenys absolutely would've ended the war before it even began.
Aegon and Aemond represents absolute danger to her grandaughters. They're just engaged to Rhaenyra's boys, they are main targets in the coming war.
In my opnion, for that amazing scenne to really hit home, neither of Visery's heirs should have stayed there. Aegon could easily run away the moment Meleys broke through "the boards" like a perfect coward and Aemond hidden, wating for a perfect moment to strike. For the dragon to get distracted so he could go for its rider. With that setup, Rhaenys choices would've been much more equivalent. In one hand, she would have the heads of some of the main conspirators, like Alicent, Otto, Kriston Cole and, even, Haelena (forgotten there by her husband), but would unknowingly open herself to Aemond's attack. On the other hand, she could realize that no real gain would be had by killing some greedy old men and a mother protecting her daughter, like she wish she could have done for her own children.
For a moment everybody would stand still. Aemond secretly creeping ever closer. All wating for the edict of the Queen Who Never Was.
fire ep and great vid as always
The queen who never said dracarys
I feel like my tolerance for bad writing is greatly lowered since I know where this kind of shit leads
While I read the books and I was not a fan of Rhaenys scene at dragonpit, I really enjoyed this "episodes 9" not being a spectacle, rather an stressfull and opressive downfall of political tension and personal motivations🔥
Did not see the scene at the end coming but I was blown away by it. Was it in character for Rhaenys to squash a few hundred smallfolk? Well, we don't really know her enough to say for sure, but I thought it would not have been her first option.
A 5 star review from a man with 5 star feet
Great video!
I thought the foot fetish thing was a bit forced. "Look how fucked up everything is" we get it.
I liked this episode. I kinda liked that it was essentially just everyone scampering, trying to race and get ahead of the news before the news even officially got outed at all.
"everything u feel for me….as ur queen." I can't handle that level of palpable sexual tension lol. Ironic cause in a way they are the cersei and jaime of this show lol.the last 3 mins aside,i thought this was an excellent episode. it felt like a white house political thriller with a "race against time" feel from start to finish suspense. When Otto was moving around these chess pieces, Beesbury screaming, Caswell hanging..I was on the edge of my seat. I knew how good it was when it had reactors already coping for compeuppance lol. Tom Glynn-Carney showed excellent range as Aegon. But it got overshadowed by 3 mins of a Rhaenys "happy ending" smdh lmao. This crowning ceremony was a visual historygasm, finally befitting a king in got verse. All the actors for Otto, Alicent, Aegon did a great job. And that "window in the wall of your prison" line is one of the best lines of series we've heard so far.
I like Rhaenys in the dragonpit. It’s a proper ”screw you” to the greens, but it also shows that she’s not willing to mercilessly incinerate the less guilty among the usurpers (Helaena and Alicent), nor obliterate _too_ many of the smallfolk to quickly end the war. Additionaly, it shows us she’s a dragonrider, and provides an explaination as to how she got Meleys out of the city (it’s not like there is a guest-dragon parking lot). But I suppose they could have shown that during the prince hunt, but I liked that they locked her up during that. As it took her frustration to a whole new level.
It shows the writers prefer spectacle over scenes that make sense, but keep reaching
@@MRJTD99 Nah
@@MRJTD99 lol not even close at all. You make absolutely NO sense at all as the writers do NOT “prEfEr sPecTacuLe oVeR sEnSe” at all as nothing you’ve said here makes any sense here in the slightest. Just step down as the scene DOES make sense completely. No one here is “rEachInG” here other than yourself. Just stop!
@@balabanasireti yes. The after show, the writer literally said that’s what it was.
@@Gadget-Walkmen lol the writer them self said it was just for spectacle. Do none of you watch the after show?
I LOVED this episode. One of my favourites
Idk why people thought the hunt for Aegon was pointless. There was a LOT of character info present in that part of the episode that's necessary to really have feelings about what comes next. And come on, Aemond and Aegon fighting in front of all of those people was pretty funny.
I liked Rhaenys coming up through the floor and not caring about the deaths of the smallfolk. One of the main points of asoiaf is that the smallfolk have a terrible life then die because of the nobles and that doesn't change no matter who is on the throne!