That's probably why we love it, actually. There's such a massive difference in aesthetics between the TOS Movies and TNG (to say nothing of the difference between TOS and TNG) that having something represent the transition (even if we never see what that era was like), helps to bind the whole thing together. There's also something to be said for the slightly blockier "functional" aesthetic the Ambassador-class over the sweeping and flowing lines of the Galaxy-class.
@@mbogucki1 Yes. TOS, TAS (the animated series - corny but surprisingly good with several of the original cast) TMP (the movie picture era :) ), TNG, VOY, DS9 (arguably the best) and the prequel ENT (enterprise). That is all, there are no other shows that could have sank the franchise and are fittingly considered STDs.
@@mbogucki1 The trailer really hasn't sold it as such and i haven't heard that many good things about it. Frankly i got burned hard with The Last Jedi, soured the whole star wars experience for me so i kind of learned my lesson then. STD was simply unwatchable and as far as i know Lower Decks is the same producer or some other Bad Robot flunky so why risk it :) ?
This is one of the most underrated Starfleet ships out there. I’ve always loved how it has Galaxy nacelles, an Excelsior saucer & a Constitution hull & deflector. I wish there were a Trek series that featured the Ambassador class.
@@rebelbumscum YES!!! I've always thought that too. And the final scene in the final episode would be the Enterprise C getting the distress call from Narendra III and setting course.
@@rebelbumscum For me, too depressing. We would know right from the first episode that the ship and crew are doomed. I wouldn't mind a show set on a different Ambassador class though.
IMO the ambassador is a brilliant in-between point of the rugged workmanship of the excelsior, and the elegance of the galaxy. The C is such a beautiful ship, I hope we get to see more of her some day
I'd agree that it does have an in-between feel, but personally I've never particularly cared for the design. To me at least, it feels way too simplified. Round saucer, barrel secondary, near barrel warp engines. Should be totally classic, right? But to me at least, it kinda feels thrown together. Plus, tbh, never a fan of that odd blue paint job it had, never seemed to fit the overall design flow. I kinda dig the original concepts, but maybe toned down a hair, otherwise it looks like you started at the d and were trying to work backward. Just imho✊️👍
Problem with an Enterprise C series would be that we would know from the start that the ship and all aboard are doomed. Too depressing. Unless they set it in an alternate timeline where the ship isn't doomed. Don't know if that would go down well with the fans though. I'd rather see a show featuring a different Ambassador class instead of the C, one we don't know the fate of.
@Paul White Star Wars fans seemed perfectly fine with a multi-season long Clone Wars series despite that depressing foregone conclusion (even got excited when it was announced that we’d see Order 66 play out onscreen in the final season). And Star Trek fans were still excited to see Captain Pike captain the Enterprise in SNW despite everyone (and _Pike himself!_ ) knowing his eventual fate. Who knows , maybe having the series finale go “History will always remember the name Enterprise!” right before flying into suicidal combat will make the viewers love the C even more. 😅
It's almost hard to believe that Starfleet would still be using the Excelsior class into the Galaxy class & Dominion War era, but not the model immediately preceding the Galaxy class, the Ambassador class as a very powerful and still resilient class of ship vs an older ship that by that point, the Excelsior class being close to a full 100 years old.
Pure speculation, but in my head-canon the Ambassador came at a time when Starfleet’s mission changed. While the Excelsior was built at the start of the great expansion phase of the Federation, meaning there was more of them built, the Ambassador (its replacement) probably came along just as they were bumping into the limits of where they could go. The new Ferengi and Cardassian threats probably led to a little more uncertainty and caution just as the Ambassador was nearing the end of its shakedown.
Maybe they just never built many Ambassadors, whereas they built lots of Excelsiors so there were still plenty around even in the later 24th century. The Amsassador may have been a bit of a dead end prestige project that was eventually canned in favour of the Galaxy, whereas the Excelsior remained a ubiquitous workhorse. It's a bit like the US Navy, they only built three Zumwalt Class in the end, yet the class it was intended to replace, the Arleigh Burke, is still in production and there will probably still be Burkes around after the Zumwalts have gone to the scrapyard several decades from now. There may have been a few Ambassadors still around in the Dominion War era though, I don't think it's ever stated in canon that the class is no longer in service.
You can see it in real life equipment as well. Sometimes a design just checks the boxes that a later design doesn't. The B-52 is probably the best example. Lots of planes and even bombers designed and built since the 50's, but the B-52 continues to get electronic and engine upgrades and will likely out last every bomber in service today.
I didn't like that either, I wish we saw more of them. But the real explanation is probably that they had a lot more stock footage and better models of the excelsior class ship. And those shows were always on tight schedules and even tighter budgets. And the ambassador class just went away as they created all new CGI vessels.
@@GearandGaming I'd not be surprised to see a B-52 make an appearance in Star Trek one day... completely refitted for exiting and entering orbit as a short range troop transport, lol. Good things never really go away!
I know it was designed to look like the missing link between Excelsior and Galaxy classes, but at a glance it's always struck me as rather like a futuristic Constitution.
Yeah, the Excelsior aspects of it are pretty superficial, like the grille texture on the front of its neck, or the edge of the saucer, so what you see is more Galaxy and Constitution. Having said that, most Starfleet ships owe a debt to the Connie. In some ways, the Ambassador design would have been a great look for the hero vessel of Next Gen.
I never cared for this ship. Maybe if they didnt rush it as the prototypes were way better. But the excelsior was a whole different breed of vessel. Likely it was designed to be more modular and upgradeable than the ambassador.
When I used to play star trek online , I used to spend hours just looking at this ship and using different paintjobs . Then looking at the ship from different angles .
Ah the _Ambassador_ class, while I love so many UFP designs, I think she has to be my favorite. Not to large, not too small (for a deep space explorer/command ship/capital ship), from some angles she looks sleek and fast while from others she looks rugged and like she can turn on a dime, and from a design standpoint you can see elements from the other classes to bear the name _Enterprise_ up to the _Galaxy_ class. I wish we got to see more of the class in the shows.
I know there's some debate over which design works better as a Galaxy-class predecessor, but I personally love both the canon design we got and the Probert concept. I like Online's backstory lore of the Narendra-class being built as an evolution of the Ambassador-class following the Enterprise-C's destruction. It's a nice way to keep the original idea while still working it into what we see on the show.
I always fancied the idea that the Ambassador class was like the constitution, super advanced and hard to build test platform. The follow up Excelsior and Galaxy took all the lessons learned and were more cost effective. Which is why both follow up ships had such long service lives.
The big difference between the Constitution and the Excelsior isn't just that the Excelsior was more advanced: the Constitution was born of war with the Klingons, and whilst it was a great test bed for tech and could be retrofitted a lot, it was still at its core a Heavy Cruiser warship. It just never "bore" that title... you know, the whole "we don't build warships yet we do" pap the Federation loves to say. Until the Sehlat crap hit the Alpha Quadrant's fan and they straight out did so multiple times in response to the Borg and Dominion. The Excelsior was able to remain a workhorse for a hundred years, the Ambassador would have been too costly and with too many extras to fill that role, and when the Galaxy came, it was no longer up to par for anything else. My headcannon for those Ambassadors we never got to see (Deep Space Nine specifically) is that the fleets fighting were either the older, tougher workhorses and the newer ships, leaving the Ambassador as planetary defence. The Excelsiors and other older, more expendable ships went into fight alongside the newer Galaxy and such ships, leaving the defence of the Core Worlds in the hands of the Ambassadors. Makes sense to me: if the enemy DOES break through, at great cost, thinking that the newest and oldest ships are all trashed... they'd have the "half way between both" still to get through. Daunting.
All of the variations and super effective lore continuity are exactly *why* it's one of my favoruites. It's nearly a perfect design to bridge the eras and the fact we see it evolve over time makes it even better. It really did feel like "yesterday's Enterprise"
I like the idea of the Ambassador class. It's enduring Shields are one of the most important parts of it and it's heavy armaments and weaponry. It almost seems like it'll hold up better or longer than a Galaxy class. Like the defiant class we set up to be more power than needed but not quite to that extent. Either way they had the right idea. Durable vehicle that's built to last.
The Ambassador class is one of my favorite ships appearance-wise because it ties the three generations of Constitution Class, Excelsior Class, and Galaxy Class ships nicely. Back in the day when star trek clubs were their own ships or shuttles, I was toying with creating an Ambassador Class ship named the USS Barre in honor of the town I resided in.
I have a soft spot for the Ambassador class, perhaps for its underdog charm, and the C is still one of my favorite Enterprises. I also think its design is more balanced compared to the Galaxy class, which to me always looked like it would tip over if gravity were a factor with a starship.
If you want more about the Ambassador class, I would recommend "Triangulum Audio Studios" and their Truth or Myth early design history on the Ambassador. They pulled from Beta canon and "added a little from their imagination, so take it with a grain of stardust" but I think it really fleshes out why in-universe they stopped the Ambassador and kept up the Excelsiors. (Hint: The computers and some shenanigans in Starfleet Command.) Truth or Myth episode 160 & 161.
Eeeh, I can't recommend going to that channel. Unless they're tune has changed, they get... argumentative when you highlight issues with anything they do that dives into speculation. I haven't watched since the early days though but it left a *very* sour taste.
utter nonsense. the ship doesn't show up because star trek has often been run by assclowns. any 'real' starfleet would have had probably hundreds of ambassador class ships in service by the time the galaxy class was ship was put into wider construction. people forget how frakking big the federation would have been volume-wise; any ship other than a capital ship would have been almost useless. having a million mirandas is dumb af--you would have needed a million excelsiors and then ambassadors and then galaxies...
@@redshirt0479 I watch that channel, but if you aren't fawning praise, he gets argumentive and dismissive. Case in point: ruclips.net/video/mCVaujDHfxg/видео.html the Ships of Wolf 359. He swears up and down there was wreckage of a Galaxy class among the footage. Memory Alpha lists the debris as a Galaxy type nacelle, though they acknowledge other ships used this type as well. The script mentions Adm. Hanson being on a Galaxy class, but it is not spoken as such in the final episode. The argument is made Hanson is on the battle bridge (redress of 1701-A bridge), but colors of fittings and the Alert: Condition Red status all scream TMP era. Pointing out such things made him snippy and dismissive. As such I'll watch what I want of his, but don't comment and don't give the praise he seems to so desperately crave.
For the RPG Star Trek Adventures, I actually prefer this space frame...it's not the tanking cruiser the Galaxy-class can be, but the phaser arrays and are a nice upgrade to an Excelsior's standard phaser emitters.
One of my favorite fan versions is the Apollo class, which is Nebula class style Ambassador. But I always had the view that Ambassador was used in frontline diplomatic, science and exploration missions. As her name implies she was not meant for combat, but was more geared to the UFP mission of peace than Excelsior before her or the Galaxy that came after her. But as the brush fire conflicts and boarder skirmishes of early 24th century showed. The Ambassador was too under gunned for the reality of the 24th Century Alpha Quadrant and so her production run was slowed early and soon nearly stopped until the class was discontinued. So when the Galaxy class and other new designs came on line (especially the Nebula class), the Ambassador class was used only for diplomatic, scientific and exploration missions (in less dangerous situations).
In RL, someone dropped the onscreen Ambassador model. Which is why we were shown endless Excelsiors instead. RL fact 2. The Ambassador we got, was due to Probert's design being too expensive and slow to construct for a Ship of the Week. It appears that the curvy nature killed Probert's design.
This (along with the Galaxy) has always been one of my favorite ships. I think it's the symmetry of this ship that does it for me. Would love to see a show with this ship featured. Like the Enterprise F, I think we really missed out by more or less skipping this one in the canon.
Thank you SO MUCH for covering this. The Ambassador Class is one of my four favorite classes (along with the Excelsior, Galaxy, and Defiant classes). Your videos are great.
Would love to see a video comparing how "Small" the galaxy has gotten over Star Trek history, Travel time has increased as shows air and, in part, i feel some of us have lost track of how fast ships can get around now. (and no, i don't mean how fast ships are, but how the galaxy is viewed by its residents)... hope this made sense.
I love this ship. Although Enterprise D has grown on me I prefer this ship. Main reason is with the D, the saucer section just looks to big, with the C it looks more in proportion.
Definitely one of my favourites, many years ago I took part in a Star Trek RPG and it was initially set aboard the Ambassador class USS Phaeton, she was old and slow in comparison to other ships in the fleet but she was ours and did an admirable job in the backwaters of Federation space near the Gorn Hegemony. Great times!
That pre-NextGen period of design is one of my favorites . . . The Ambassador and the Renaissance are ships IMM beautiful. I'd love to see them given some love in a fan film or a ST piece.
"Contemporary Starfleet" is such a tricky term if you think about it. I could say that we're all being played for fools by the "contemporary" makers of Star Trek as they show totally disregard for what has gone before. However, the Ambassador is a ship that still respected that canon, and I am glad you are featuring it here. This ship was a big step up in terms of size and mass. It sadly has become a signal of bigger things to come... and most Starfleet ship designs have suffered from an overall "inflation." The jump from the elegant Excelsior to the brutish Ambassador class is quite jarring.
MY ALL TIME FAVOURITE STARSHIP CLASS IN ALL OF TREK HISTORY, everyone else can take the battle lowprofile Defiants, there Classic Contitutions, the Ugly Excelsiors even ships like the Sovereign, Intrepid and Galaxy Classes, which i agree are beautiful... for me, no other ship, side ship or hero ship, to me couldn't compare to this magnificent Ambassador Class, to me it just FEELS like a True Federation ship, its design when in the show was honestly breath taking, and i even agree it feels like its the prototype to the Galaxy Class, especially when put side by side... XD its like the Ambassador Class is the father to his proud bigger sized son the galaxy class, but also, the Ambassador class holds many similarities to our few favourite ships that came before and even get made after, the Deflector, saucer and hull is similar to the Contitution with there more round design, the Nacelles and profile of the ship are similar to its succsessor of the Galaxy Class, even the little details like the grill neck and low hanger bay are similar to the Excelsior class (to my unfortunate hate)
@@3Rayfire the look the maker wanted it to have VS what was shown on tv?... the one on TV, Ambassador Class, the one the maker wanted is alright, but it wasn't for me if im honest
@@FederationThunderbolt I see the appeal of both. I always thought the show version brought in Constitution Class lineage. Have you seen Star Trek Online's Legendary version? The Horatio Class. She's a beaut but quite far removed from her honorable ancestor.
@@3Rayfire i HAVE that ship, and i do like the t6 25th refit look to it honestly, but the ship i call the Heroprise (because i decided to be amusing and name every enterprise ship something so long as it has the word 'PRISE' at the end XD) i stuck as the Ambassador Class
@@FederationThunderbolt My Man. I can't be surprised. The most powerful version of your favorite ship, with the revamped classic skin. What's not to love?
I remember FASA used to claim Ent-C was "Alaska" class, until contradicted by Yesterday's Enterprise. I've always head-canon'ed it by adding an incident where the first ship of the class was destroyed, and they renamed the entire class after the second ship instead, much like USN did with the Thresher / Permit class of submarines. I then tried to write a story where both the Stargazer and the Romulans are involved, as well as a deep-cover agent Romulans planted in Starfleet... ;)
Your comment about them being "too intensive to produce for menial tasks" immediately had my mind racing over the mind boggling amount of cargo one could pull when stripped down 🤯
I've always loved the Ambassador Class. I never liked the Excelsior myself, but i initially hated the Galaxy Class when I first saw it, but it grew on me, lol. Wish they would have shown more of this class.
The Ambassador Class looks like an afterthought and something thrown together. I never liked how this ship looked, but perhaps that's because I love the Excelsior class so much.
The model which is in great shape was up for auction recently and featured on the Adam Savage YT channel. Great looking ship. * Kind of stubby, late 80's/early 90's feel to it.
Thanks once again Rick for the informitive video. I usecto play star trek online some time ago. I waguely remember in part of the story a Unviverse class. If i remember correctly. I think thats what it was called 🤷♂️ Basically a massive version of one of The Enterpriises. That woud be great.
I think your headcanon is perfectly fitting regarding the Ambassador getting squeezed out by a more capable new brand name coming on the scene while also having a reliable and cheaper alternative.I think the same thing happened to the Connies with the Excelsiors and Mirandas.
In a DS9 novel (According to M-A) the Bajorans were given the license and design schematics of the Ambassador class for self-production. At first they thought they'd been given a "hand-me-down" obsolete design, but they later found out, that it's actually a solid design. I think that Ambassador is underrated because it was released between the Excelsior and Galaxy, which are both really good designs. However if we look at the design lineages of the Constitution, Excelsior, Ambassador, Galaxy and Sovereign, it might be possible to find some sort of bigger appreciation of this forgotten flagship class. With the Connie being the originator of modern UFP Starfleet design, a template if you will, you can see that the Excelsior went off in one design language with long, strenched philosophy. Something which is seen in Sovereign as well. But if you look at the Galaxy, it isn't an inheritor of the Excelsior's lineage. It's a refinement of the Ambassador, which in itself is closer to the Constitution design lineage, than the Excelsior. When the Ambassador was created, it was on the tipping point of duotronic and isolinear based systems and was upgraded as time went by. By the 2340's when Galaxy design was in the midst of being finalized, the Ambassador was a very capable design. But it was based on philosophies of late Excelsior era, which had jumped leaps and bounds, by the time of the Galaxy era. My argument would be that if we go from the Connie, the Excelsior was a revolutionary design. So was the Ambassador. Where new tech and new design philosophy was introduced. But the Galaxy was more of an evolutionary design. That is... it's a refinement of current technologies, rather than new inventions. Not to say that the Galaxy didn't progress technology, because it did. But all of the tech in a Galaxy could also be in Ambassador. And it'd work fine. Just wouldn't look as pretty. The ending comments of the video did kinda state it. That One might as well make a Galaxy class, over an Ambassador class, because you'd get same performance, but the Galaxy would do with grandeur. By the same token, The Excelsior's design was furthered in the Sovereign as a revolutionary design within it's own lineage. With the USS Lakota being a good example of a ship, that's been specced up to the point of being able to handle 90% of the same tasks as a Sovereign. But the Excelsior/Sovereign liniage has one doctrine and goal, whereas the Ambassador/Galaxy has it's doctrine and goal. Similar ideas could be placed on the Miranda/Nebula classes. Where in my head-canon, the reason that we don't see that many Nebula-class ships in late TNG/DS9 era, is because the Dominion war made Stafleet focus on the Galaxy-class as opposed to the Nebula, where the ship sizes and design would have overlapped the resources needed to construct them. Hence why Miranda was pulled from mothball fleets to cover a scounting and logistical need, which the Nebula would ordinarily have had. Likewise, the Sovereign would have been slated to replace the Excelsior completely, but now we have Excelsior-II and Odyssey-class as well, the former being an evolutionary design and the latter being a revolutionary deisgn.
TL:DR Ambassador-class built right before Dominion War would have been just as capable as a Galaxy-class, since it'd have the same tech as a Galaxy. But it was a 40-50 year old design, that didn't have as much pizzazz. Excelsior could be made near Sovereign performance. Was kept in production because it was a different doctrine that Galaxy and cheaper than Ambassador, in terms of construction time and resources.
There is a real world reason for that. The Ambassador Enterprise-C was a low-budget model made for one episode with extensive battle damage. It was unsuitable for regular use throughout the series, while the Excelsior model was borrowed from the higher budget TOS movies.
I always found it weird how many Excelsiors continued to pop up in STTNG and beyond despite being positively ancient, but for some reason Ambassadors were pretty much forgotten.
I speculated on this in my Ambassador Class video :P I reckon it was because the Ambassador was stuck in this middle-ground of too advanced to just be a replacement Excelsior, but not advanced enough to keep up with the Galaxy, although we do see the occasional Ambassador still in service in the late 24th century.
@@CertifiablyIngame lorewise you can come up with lots of possible reasons. I mean showrunner wise. Why did they create an obviously newer design but continue to use a much older one for other ships of the fleet? It'd be like filming a movie in the 90's but having tons of background cars from the 50's. You might expect to see one or two, but not virtually all of them. Stylistically it just seems like a weird decision. The only thing I can think so far is that they wanted to keep the Enterprise C a unique phenomenon in the show, but then they were more than happy to parade other Galaxy Class ships around the Enterprise D, so was that really so important to them?
I notice you didn't include any shots of what I presume to be late-production Ambassadors, referred to in STO as the "Yamaguchi" after the one that made an appearance in this form in TNG. Said changed details include shorter nacelle pylons, caps on the bussard collectors (making them more resemble the ones on the Galaxy class), modified deflector dish, and a slight shifting back of the saucer section.
It would be very cool to see more ships from this "lost era." At least as long as they were done in such a way as to be faithful to the design aesthetic the Ambassador Class established.
It's exactly how old Computer Chips look when compared to new ones in real life! It succeeds at being "Antiquated" compared to the D, while looking like the future compared to the Excelsior! What a cool design language! Those Extra Large Naccells really help to do the trick, all the newer ships make those a lot smaller or in a shape that is complementary to the overall design of the specialist design of the future ships. The bulky design language suggests they were thinking from the inside out, how the rooms fit together, whereas later designs took the Apple approach and looked at the ship from the outside first, then squeezed everything to fit into the design. I wonder if someone who served on both designs, the Ambassador, and Galaxy, if they would be able to testify, that the cargo bays for instance, on the Ambassador would perhaps be larger and have more convenient design features for usability rather than being squished to fit the overall shape of the ship's outside? Although, the Galaxy make make up for this by simply being larger? Or maybe all the features thought of during the lifetime of the Ambassador would inform the design for the Galaxy later on and it could be just superior in every way? But it would be nice to think some of the more seasoned engineers would actually say that they still have old preferences for the Ambassador in some cases, speaking to the feel of the older class in general, much how Scottie does the Older Ships, especially the original Enterprise... Anyway, just some thoughts! Thanks!
Something I find curious is the odd gap between Ent-C's destruction, and the launch of the Ent-D. There's a gap of nearly 20 years there. It doesn't feel like the Federation without an Enterprise in the fleet...
I find it funny that in this ship’s first appearance: it acts both newer and older than it should. It’s supposedly “way outdated” but also “not so much has changed”. Plus (and this has always made me smile): Captain Garret should have recognized Picard. He’d already been Captain of the Stargazer for something like eleven years when her ship vanished, and you can’t tell me the Captain of the Enterprise didn’t know Jean-Luc Picard, youngest Captain ever up to that point.
Starfleets RND was sluggish during the years between Khitomer (UC) and return of the Romulans and the Borg incursions and the dominion. They didn't meet a threat that could really challenge them and for nigh on 100 years. Technology stagnated somewhat. Thats not to say they didn't 'Develop' they just didnt develop quickly enough. The most modern class of the era the Galaxy was still a science and exploration vessel and the old designs were still fit for that purpose. The twenty years or so from TNG to the end of Voyager, like Q says, Starfleet found out 'exactly what was out there' and had to ramp themselves up. So now we see akira and steamrunners replacing mirandas, and sovereigns and inquisitors replacing excelsior and galaxy. Starfleet basically had it all their own way for a long time then they got their balls kicked.
1:00 Aaaand thats why "Fan-Cannon" is best. It side-steps the bosses that messed up the franchise, and takes the side of the artist and *fans* that actually love this.
I think a reasonably satisfactory canon explanation for the "unsuccessful" could be that the Excelsior was more than adequate for the "9 times out of 10" type of missions around Fed space, which it probably was tbh along with proving to be a very adaptable design either intentionally or accidentally, while the newer Galaxy, Nebula, then more warship type designs just all translated into the "Neither superior enough nor cheap enough" sort of design of the Ambassador becoming logistically not a good deal overall. I'll flesh that out a bit. We can even look at the crew availability. Certainly the Federation, big as it was, really struggled to crew ships once losses during the Dominion war started coming in. This would suggest imho, that there was never really a huge amount of crews available to begin with. So, while the Constitution with a crew of 430 was probably even too many, we can at least say that this class of ship, regardless of the amount of waring it was involved with, was one of the first deep space explorer designs and so it kinda needed to be that big and with a crew that big. Fine, but so far as deep space explorers go, lessons were learned from the Constitution and while the ship was big with a large crew, it proved to be not big enough for years of deep space travel in which the sanity of the crew itself and somewhat cramped quarters became exposed, along with encountering alien races with ships and abilities simply too hot to handle. And so, enter the Excelsior Class. It's mass of 2.35 million metric tons compared to the Constitutions 190k, and overall dimensions to reflect that significant mass difference, reflects a ship that is now notably bigger, roomier and offers the sort of sustained warp speeds and creature comforts along with the necessary technology, to offer a crew most of what it needs. And yet, even though the Excelsior is many times more massive and roomier to the Constitution, it has a crew that's not even twice that of the Constitution. So it was more a case of Starfleet identifying from Constitution experience that for deep space exploration, what was needed was a much bigger ship with a lot more comforts and the ability to do things well within itself without breaking a sweat, otherwise crew moral and mental health suffers over the duration of a mission that could last years. Also, for first contact and border posturing, a big chunky powerful technologically advanced looking ship would be a requirement too which again, is a role even just a few Excelsior's would have filled. But for non-deep space missions and patrols within Fed space... ya, something even smaller than a Constitution would be perfectly adequate in most cases wouldn't it? Hence the likes of many other smaller vessels that filled that rolled perfectly fine and those only needed small crews. So the Ambassador. Ya, it's mass is actually nearly that of the Galaxy. 3.7 vs 4.5. Ok there's a notable mass difference but when we reflect on the 2.3 mil of the Excelsior we can say they're kinda close given just how much more massive they are. I'd like to think that the Ambassador had a few serious design flaws that held it back, and ones that couldn't simply be retrofitted. So while the Ambassador was an excellent ship and superior to the Excelsior, that it just wasn't notably superior enough to justify its overwhelming logistical requirement to construct, and that sadly, a ship that was almost twice as big as the Excelsior didn't translate into a ship that was twice as good, or even notably better given how flexible the Excelsior was to upgrades. It was worth constructing for the few vessels they had and for reasons stated, 1st contact, flexing along borders with potential aggressors, AND a few for genuine deep space exploration. It's even bigger impressive size would have been a natural deterrent from would-be enemies who would assume the Fed is full of ships like this which it wasn't. It would have made a very impressive first impression when contacting new alien life which again, would assume the Fed is comprised entirely of ships as big and powerful as the Ambassador, plus for the few sent on deep space exploration missions, it has even more room and comforts than the already big and comfy Excelsior. So good, but not good enough, and very big and logistically demanding along with still requiring a big crew similar to the Excelsior. So I guess it would have become clear that for the Federations "9 times out of 10" missions, they simply didn't need a ship that was significantly bigger and costlier and construction demanding than the Excelsior which as mentioned, kinda ticked most boxes and was apparently easy to keep upgrading with personally is a something I like the idea of for future humans... that foresight to create a design that ticks most all the boxes and constructed with upgrades and retrofits in mind. I think the Galaxy/Nebula combo was Starfleets lessons from the Ambassador, whereby it was too big and not particularly that impressive to bother turning out in large numbers as a backbone to the fleet, so instead they constructed just a few Galaxies which were the ultimate, almost propogandist vessel to showcase Starfleet and the Federation as being a technologically advanced and powerful Federation, and so these small handful of Galaxies, just like the Ambassador before it, were to mostly serve as 1st contact and border posturing... a "Look at our might ship and think highly of us!" and "We have lots of these ships so don't mess with us!" sort of false front. Sure, a few examples would have been constructed for deep space exploration since that huge size would as mentioned, offer creature comforts and "soak up the miles". If you're going to spend potentially years on a ship going in one direction at warp speed, you would want the biggest, roomiest, more comfortable ship with a crew that's small enough to allow that size be utilized and keep everyone relaxed and happy etc. But, you don't need an entire fleet of these ridiculously expensive and time demanding constructs. And so, while the Galaxy was constructed in limited numbers for flexing and impressing, the real work horse would have been the Nebula realistically. Ok it didn't look as wow as the Galaxy, but it was, according to canon, supposed to be a smaller and far more flexible design that could swap out mission pods and wasn't as demanding to construct as the Galaxy. We could imagine that the Nebula, while utilizing a lot of Galaxy parts for the sake of streamlining, probably also utilized a lot of older parts that were readily available and in available in large numbers from other current starships, and could therefore be turned out in greater numbers. So ultimately, the between the even bigger and more impressive Galaxy, and it's little brother Nebula, along with the logistically far superior Excelsior, this big lump of an Ambassador didn't really have a purpose anymore. For first contact, border flexing/posturing and deep space exploration, a few Galaxies now filled that role. For similar roles with a more expansive mission specific role, the adaptable Nebula which we can imagine as being both technologically superior and cheaper to make, would have filled that role. For the plethora of other less meaty missions, there was the still plenty big and capable Excelsior which as we saw when the Lakota fought the Defiant, was plenty strong and very upgradeable! Plus there was a litany of other starship designs that only needed small crews, were far cheaper and plenty capable at what they were needed for. So ya, kinda leaves nowhere for the Ambassador really. Personally I think it's a beautiful ship. It really captures that classic Federation design and arguably looks more like it came after the Constitution and before the Excelsior, only for the fact that it's absolutely massive. I'd have loved to have seen a lot more of it. I'm just fleshing out some of my own canon with the above yarn I spun, but I think in another universe the Ambassador would have been a very numerous ship. I think if we just trim back the crew compliments of these ships we're good. AI would undoubtedly mean that starship crews are actually small, and as we saw with the Dominion War, sometimes having lots of smaller powerful ships with small crews that can be turned out in large numbers are actually better than big capital type ships that are inevitably a big point of focus, hard to produce quickly, have bigger crews, get overwhelmed by lots of smaller ships and their loss is a big big kick in the balls. But ya, for the wow factor and deep space exploration, it's gotta be a massive ship. You can't spend years exploring space in a cramped Uboat sort of thing, the crew would go mad.
Head canon: Probert's original design of the Ambassador Class was the ship Starfleet was going to build, if the situation in the galaxy was more calm and peace-abiding. The ship we got in "Yesterday's Enterprise" was built around the diplomatic decline and the need form more military minded vessels created by the increasing aggression of the Federation's neighbors, mainly the Klingons. Thus a more straightforward ship was built that was easier and faster to build, and easier to repair, maintain, and upgrade as needed. Its simpler blockier shape also made the ship look more formidable and even intimidating. While families could be taken aboard ship, it was never encouraged at this time. But as needs and trends changed again, swinging back toward peace and calm, The Ambassador was never renewed for more ships in lieu of the Galaxy Class. This also forced the Excelsior to stay in service where the more capable Ambassador would have easily taken its place. This all came largely to naught simply because Starfleet lost interest in building long serving vessels which put the brakes, but never fully stopped, on Galaxy Class production, defeated Ambassador and Excelsior production, all in lieu of smaller more specialized vessels. A long term plan meant to edge in more combat capability, with out setting off the Federation's "peacenik" alarmist bells and klaxons. Only after, the Battle of Wolf 359 did Starfleet start to seriously lobby to build more capital and command ships. The Battle of Sector 001, also referred to as "The Borg on Our Front Doorstep", and The Dominion War stymied this as the need for smaller, faster, easier and quicker to produce vessels took precedent again over capital and command ships. The Hobus -Supernova- Hypernova and the subsequent fall of the Romulan Star Empire, surprisingly allowed Starfleet to finally get the Federation to allow for more new Capital ships and Command ships, as a means of consolidating area Command and Control functions and capabilities, more effective multi-role vessels capable of more specialized "heavy lifting". This leading to the ships such as the Odyssey Class.
It is such a good ship for what it was suppose to be. Some ships to maybe consider Saber class steamrunner class Loknar class and Chandley class ( the last two would be entirely beta cannon though)
I feel like nobody seems to notice how there's SO much constitution in the Ambassador's hull, couples with a more excelsiorish saucer and the general vibe and aesthetic of the galaxy Probert's version was a direct halfway between the B and D, (okay they didn't have the B yet but shush) but the final version feels like a blend of all of them
![Stromae, Pomme - “Ma Meilleure Ennemie” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1F3OGIFnW1k/mqdefault.jpg)
For such a limited appearance, people really love this ship. Gotta admit, it really does capture the essence of a ship in-between.
That's probably why we love it, actually. There's such a massive difference in aesthetics between the TOS Movies and TNG (to say nothing of the difference between TOS and TNG) that having something represent the transition (even if we never see what that era was like), helps to bind the whole thing together. There's also something to be said for the slightly blockier "functional" aesthetic the Ambassador-class over the sweeping and flowing lines of the Galaxy-class.
@NightrunnerXM Isn't "TOS Movies" just know as the TMP era? 🤔
@@mbogucki1 Yes. TOS, TAS (the animated series - corny but surprisingly good with several of the original cast) TMP (the movie picture era :) ), TNG, VOY, DS9 (arguably the best) and the prequel ENT (enterprise).
That is all, there are no other shows that could have sank the franchise and are fittingly considered STDs.
@@gusty9053 Give Lower Decks a watch. I was skeptical but its honestly a love letter to Star Trek.
@@mbogucki1 The trailer really hasn't sold it as such and i haven't heard that many good things about it. Frankly i got burned hard with The Last Jedi, soured the whole star wars experience for me so i kind of learned my lesson then. STD was simply unwatchable and as far as i know Lower Decks is the same producer or some other Bad Robot flunky so why risk it :) ?
This is one of the most underrated Starfleet ships out there. I’ve always loved how it has Galaxy nacelles, an Excelsior saucer & a Constitution hull & deflector.
I wish there were a Trek series that featured the Ambassador class.
If the Ambassador came first, wouldn't that mean the Galaxy has Ambassador nacelles, and not the other way round?
Yes! I would love to see an Ambassador series, maybe even an Enterprise C series before Narendra III
@@mattorama *technically* yes, but speaking out of universe, the galaxy came first
@@rebelbumscum YES!!! I've always thought that too. And the final scene in the final episode would be the Enterprise C getting the distress call from Narendra III and setting course.
@@rebelbumscum For me, too depressing. We would know right from the first episode that the ship and crew are doomed. I wouldn't mind a show set on a different Ambassador class though.
IMO the ambassador is a brilliant in-between point of the rugged workmanship of the excelsior, and the elegance of the galaxy. The C is such a beautiful ship, I hope we get to see more of her some day
I'd agree that it does have an in-between feel, but personally I've never particularly cared for the design.
To me at least, it feels way too simplified. Round saucer, barrel secondary, near barrel warp engines. Should be totally classic, right?
But to me at least, it kinda feels thrown together. Plus, tbh, never a fan of that odd blue paint job it had, never seemed to fit the overall design flow.
I kinda dig the original concepts, but maybe toned down a hair, otherwise it looks like you started at the d and were trying to work backward.
Just imho✊️👍
The C in the episode was not that beautiful, scorch marks or not, the STO version based on the original design was the one I loved
Problem with an Enterprise C series would be that we would know from the start that the ship and all aboard are doomed. Too depressing. Unless they set it in an alternate timeline where the ship isn't doomed. Don't know if that would go down well with the fans though. I'd rather see a show featuring a different Ambassador class instead of the C, one we don't know the fate of.
@Paul White Star Wars fans seemed perfectly fine with a multi-season long Clone Wars series despite that depressing foregone conclusion (even got excited when it was announced that we’d see Order 66 play out onscreen in the final season).
And Star Trek fans were still excited to see Captain Pike captain the Enterprise in SNW despite everyone (and _Pike himself!_ ) knowing his eventual fate.
Who knows , maybe having the series finale go “History will always remember the name Enterprise!” right before flying into suicidal combat will make the viewers love the C even more. 😅
Star Trek: the only series where people *don't* want to see things.
It's almost hard to believe that Starfleet would still be using the Excelsior class into the Galaxy class & Dominion War era, but not the model immediately preceding the Galaxy class, the Ambassador class as a very powerful and still resilient class of ship vs an older ship that by that point, the Excelsior class being close to a full 100 years old.
Pure speculation, but in my head-canon the Ambassador came at a time when Starfleet’s mission changed. While the Excelsior was built at the start of the great expansion phase of the Federation, meaning there was more of them built, the Ambassador (its replacement) probably came along just as they were bumping into the limits of where they could go. The new Ferengi and Cardassian threats probably led to a little more uncertainty and caution just as the Ambassador was nearing the end of its shakedown.
Maybe they just never built many Ambassadors, whereas they built lots of Excelsiors so there were still plenty around even in the later 24th century. The Amsassador may have been a bit of a dead end prestige project that was eventually canned in favour of the Galaxy, whereas the Excelsior remained a ubiquitous workhorse. It's a bit like the US Navy, they only built three Zumwalt Class in the end, yet the class it was intended to replace, the Arleigh Burke, is still in production and there will probably still be Burkes around after the Zumwalts have gone to the scrapyard several decades from now. There may have been a few Ambassadors still around in the Dominion War era though, I don't think it's ever stated in canon that the class is no longer in service.
You can see it in real life equipment as well. Sometimes a design just checks the boxes that a later design doesn't. The B-52 is probably the best example. Lots of planes and even bombers designed and built since the 50's, but the B-52 continues to get electronic and engine upgrades and will likely out last every bomber in service today.
I didn't like that either, I wish we saw more of them. But the real explanation is probably that they had a lot more stock footage and better models of the excelsior class ship. And those shows were always on tight schedules and even tighter budgets. And the ambassador class just went away as they created all new CGI vessels.
@@GearandGaming I'd not be surprised to see a B-52 make an appearance in Star Trek one day... completely refitted for exiting and entering orbit as a short range troop transport, lol.
Good things never really go away!
I know it was designed to look like the missing link between Excelsior and Galaxy classes, but at a glance it's always struck me as rather like a futuristic Constitution.
Exactly my thought.
I've always thought of the Ambassador as a love child between the Connie refit and Galaxy.
Yeah, the Excelsior aspects of it are pretty superficial, like the grille texture on the front of its neck, or the edge of the saucer, so what you see is more Galaxy and Constitution. Having said that, most Starfleet ships owe a debt to the Connie. In some ways, the Ambassador design would have been a great look for the hero vessel of Next Gen.
I never cared for this ship. Maybe if they didnt rush it as the prototypes were way better.
But the excelsior was a whole different breed of vessel. Likely it was designed to be more modular and upgradeable than the ambassador.
When I used to play star trek online , I used to spend hours just looking at this ship and using different paintjobs . Then looking at the ship from different angles .
Ah the _Ambassador_ class, while I love so many UFP designs, I think she has to be my favorite. Not to large, not too small (for a deep space explorer/command ship/capital ship), from some angles she looks sleek and fast while from others she looks rugged and like she can turn on a dime, and from a design standpoint you can see elements from the other classes to bear the name _Enterprise_ up to the _Galaxy_ class.
I wish we got to see more of the class in the shows.
i agree😄
I know there's some debate over which design works better as a Galaxy-class predecessor, but I personally love both the canon design we got and the Probert concept. I like Online's backstory lore of the Narendra-class being built as an evolution of the Ambassador-class following the Enterprise-C's destruction. It's a nice way to keep the original idea while still working it into what we see on the show.
I always fancied the idea that the Ambassador class was like the constitution, super advanced and hard to build test platform. The follow up Excelsior and Galaxy took all the lessons learned and were more cost effective. Which is why both follow up ships had such long service lives.
Ambassador was a workhorse like the Miranda
The ambassador came after the Execlsior
The big difference between the Constitution and the Excelsior isn't just that the Excelsior was more advanced: the Constitution was born of war with the Klingons, and whilst it was a great test bed for tech and could be retrofitted a lot, it was still at its core a Heavy Cruiser warship. It just never "bore" that title... you know, the whole "we don't build warships yet we do" pap the Federation loves to say. Until the Sehlat crap hit the Alpha Quadrant's fan and they straight out did so multiple times in response to the Borg and Dominion.
The Excelsior was able to remain a workhorse for a hundred years, the Ambassador would have been too costly and with too many extras to fill that role, and when the Galaxy came, it was no longer up to par for anything else.
My headcannon for those Ambassadors we never got to see (Deep Space Nine specifically) is that the fleets fighting were either the older, tougher workhorses and the newer ships, leaving the Ambassador as planetary defence. The Excelsiors and other older, more expendable ships went into fight alongside the newer Galaxy and such ships, leaving the defence of the Core Worlds in the hands of the Ambassadors. Makes sense to me: if the enemy DOES break through, at great cost, thinking that the newest and oldest ships are all trashed... they'd have the "half way between both" still to get through.
Daunting.
Probert’s enterprise c design is one of my favorite trek ships
All of the variations and super effective lore continuity are exactly *why* it's one of my favoruites. It's nearly a perfect design to bridge the eras and the fact we see it evolve over time makes it even better. It really did feel like "yesterday's Enterprise"
I like the idea of the Ambassador class. It's enduring Shields are one of the most important parts of it and it's heavy armaments and weaponry. It almost seems like it'll hold up better or longer than a Galaxy class. Like the defiant class we set up to be more power than needed but not quite to that extent. Either way they had the right idea. Durable vehicle that's built to last.
fun fact the Ambassador class has a shuttlebay on the saucer.
The Ambassador class is one of my favorite ships appearance-wise because it ties the three generations of Constitution Class, Excelsior Class, and Galaxy Class ships nicely. Back in the day when star trek clubs were their own ships or shuttles, I was toying with creating an Ambassador Class ship named the USS Barre in honor of the town I resided in.
It's my favorite too- it has the best looking saucer IMHO.
I would love a series set in the "Lost Era".
You're hardly the only one, but would there be enough interest from more casual viewers?
@@vic5015 If marketed right I could see it working out well.
What Discovery could have been.
@@ChaosFS Discovery is perfect. You just hate that a Person of Color is the star.
@@notabannedaccount8362 I love DS9. Try again.
Such a great looking design that, imo, seems like a perfect Starfleet ship. I wish there was a series featuring it as the primary ship.
The Peter David novel series New Frontier features this class of ship as the main vessel the USS Excalibur.
I have a soft spot for the Ambassador class, perhaps for its underdog charm, and the C is still one of my favorite Enterprises. I also think its design is more balanced compared to the Galaxy class, which to me always looked like it would tip over if gravity were a factor with a starship.
If you want more about the Ambassador class, I would recommend "Triangulum Audio Studios" and their Truth or Myth early design history on the Ambassador. They pulled from Beta canon and "added a little from their imagination, so take it with a grain of stardust" but I think it really fleshes out why in-universe they stopped the Ambassador and kept up the Excelsiors. (Hint: The computers and some shenanigans in Starfleet Command.)
Truth or Myth episode 160 & 161.
Eeeh, I can't recommend going to that channel. Unless they're tune has changed, they get... argumentative when you highlight issues with anything they do that dives into speculation. I haven't watched since the early days though but it left a *very* sour taste.
utter nonsense. the ship doesn't show up because star trek has often been run by assclowns. any 'real' starfleet would have had probably hundreds of ambassador class ships in service by the time the galaxy class was ship was put into wider construction.
people forget how frakking big the federation would have been volume-wise; any ship other than a capital ship would have been almost useless. having a million mirandas is dumb af--you would have needed a million excelsiors and then ambassadors and then galaxies...
@@redshirt0479 I watch that channel, but if you aren't fawning praise, he gets argumentive and dismissive. Case in point: ruclips.net/video/mCVaujDHfxg/видео.html the Ships of Wolf 359. He swears up and down there was wreckage of a Galaxy class among the footage. Memory Alpha lists the debris as a Galaxy type nacelle, though they acknowledge other ships used this type as well. The script mentions Adm. Hanson being on a Galaxy class, but it is not spoken as such in the final episode. The argument is made Hanson is on the battle bridge (redress of 1701-A bridge), but colors of fittings and the Alert: Condition Red status all scream TMP era. Pointing out such things made him snippy and dismissive.
As such I'll watch what I want of his, but don't comment and don't give the praise he seems to so desperately crave.
They my favourite covered at last! Always loved the simple look of this design honestly found it beautiful in its sleekness
Such a great looking ship. It was perfect as the in-universe “bridge” between the generations of Enterprise.
For the RPG Star Trek Adventures, I actually prefer this space frame...it's not the tanking cruiser the Galaxy-class can be, but the phaser arrays and are a nice upgrade to an Excelsior's standard phaser emitters.
One of my favorite fan versions is the Apollo class, which is Nebula class style Ambassador. But I always had the view that Ambassador was used in frontline diplomatic, science and exploration missions. As her name implies she was not meant for combat, but was more geared to the UFP mission of peace than Excelsior before her or the Galaxy that came after her. But as the brush fire conflicts and boarder skirmishes of early 24th century showed. The Ambassador was too under gunned for the reality of the 24th Century Alpha Quadrant and so her production run was slowed early and soon nearly stopped until the class was discontinued. So when the Galaxy class and other new designs came on line (especially the Nebula class), the Ambassador class was used only for diplomatic, scientific and exploration missions (in less dangerous situations).
In RL, someone dropped the onscreen Ambassador model. Which is why we were shown endless Excelsiors instead. RL fact 2. The Ambassador we got, was due to Probert's design being too expensive and slow to construct for a Ship of the Week. It appears that the curvy nature killed Probert's design.
This (along with the Galaxy) has always been one of my favorite ships. I think it's the symmetry of this ship that does it for me. Would love to see a show with this ship featured. Like the Enterprise F, I think we really missed out by more or less skipping this one in the canon.
Regarding design, it really connects the different era very well.
I hope they make an anthology series that includes the Era where the Ambassador class was the top ship!
Definitely one of Starfleet's most beautiful ships. A shame it was only seen once. Thanks for the nicely done presentation!
Thank you SO MUCH for covering this. The Ambassador Class is one of my four favorite classes (along with the Excelsior, Galaxy, and Defiant classes). Your videos are great.
One of my favorite Enterprises. And one of my all time favorite episodes of TNG is "Yesterday's Enterprise".
Excellent, the Enterprise-C is from my favourite episode of TNG
oddly enough, the ambassador class has been one of if not my most favourite starfleet ship. its combines the tos and tng ship designs perfectly
Would love to see a video comparing how "Small" the galaxy has gotten over Star Trek history, Travel time has increased as shows air and, in part, i feel some of us have lost track of how fast ships can get around now. (and no, i don't mean how fast ships are, but how the galaxy is viewed by its residents)... hope this made sense.
This is my favorite looking starship, the mix between galaxy class smooth futuristic and cantitiution angular practical looks amazing ino.
I kind of like this one. It's both Constitution refit and Galaxy Class nicely bridged together in a pretty thick, durable looking design.
I absolutely love the Ambassador class!
I love this ship. Although Enterprise D has grown on me I prefer this ship. Main reason is with the D, the saucer section just looks to big, with the C it looks more in proportion.
The Ambassador does look like the personification of the "average Starfleet ship," almost literally.
Definitely one of my favourites, many years ago I took part in a Star Trek RPG and it was initially set aboard the Ambassador class USS Phaeton, she was old and slow in comparison to other ships in the fleet but she was ours and did an admirable job in the backwaters of Federation space near the Gorn Hegemony. Great times!
I LOVE this Ship! The early 24th century is the *Golden Age!*
Traveling in the Kevin timelines of the Golden Age.
That pre-NextGen period of design is one of my favorites . . . The Ambassador and the Renaissance are ships IMM beautiful. I'd love to see them given some love in a fan film or a ST piece.
Absolutely love the Ambassador class. Easily my all time number 1 favourite federation starship design
"Contemporary Starfleet" is such a tricky term if you think about it. I could say that we're all being played for fools by the "contemporary" makers of Star Trek as they show totally disregard for what has gone before. However, the Ambassador is a ship that still respected that canon, and I am glad you are featuring it here. This ship was a big step up in terms of size and mass. It sadly has become a signal of bigger things to come... and most Starfleet ship designs have suffered from an overall "inflation." The jump from the elegant Excelsior to the brutish Ambassador class is quite jarring.
MY ALL TIME FAVOURITE STARSHIP CLASS IN ALL OF TREK HISTORY, everyone else can take the battle lowprofile Defiants, there Classic Contitutions, the Ugly Excelsiors even ships like the Sovereign, Intrepid and Galaxy Classes, which i agree are beautiful... for me, no other ship, side ship or hero ship, to me couldn't compare to this magnificent Ambassador Class, to me it just FEELS like a True Federation ship, its design when in the show was honestly breath taking, and i even agree it feels like its the prototype to the Galaxy Class, especially when put side by side... XD its like the Ambassador Class is the father to his proud bigger sized son the galaxy class, but also, the Ambassador class holds many similarities to our few favourite ships that came before and even get made after, the Deflector, saucer and hull is similar to the Contitution with there more round design, the Nacelles and profile of the ship are similar to its succsessor of the Galaxy Class, even the little details like the grill neck and low hanger bay are similar to the Excelsior class (to my unfortunate hate)
How do you feel about the original design vs the production model?
@@3Rayfire the look the maker wanted it to have VS what was shown on tv?... the one on TV, Ambassador Class, the one the maker wanted is alright, but it wasn't for me if im honest
@@FederationThunderbolt I see the appeal of both. I always thought the show version brought in Constitution Class lineage. Have you seen Star Trek Online's Legendary version? The Horatio Class. She's a beaut but quite far removed from her honorable ancestor.
@@3Rayfire i HAVE that ship, and i do like the t6 25th refit look to it honestly, but the ship i call the Heroprise (because i decided to be amusing and name every enterprise ship something so long as it has the word 'PRISE' at the end XD) i stuck as the Ambassador Class
@@FederationThunderbolt My Man. I can't be surprised. The most powerful version of your favorite ship, with the revamped classic skin. What's not to love?
I LOVE your starship reviews and your style of doing them is unique.
Seriously too tier
I remember FASA used to claim Ent-C was "Alaska" class, until contradicted by Yesterday's Enterprise.
I've always head-canon'ed it by adding an incident where the first ship of the class was destroyed, and they renamed the entire class after the second ship instead, much like USN did with the Thresher / Permit class of submarines. I then tried to write a story where both the Stargazer and the Romulans are involved, as well as a deep-cover agent Romulans planted in Starfleet... ;)
Your comment about them being "too intensive to produce for menial tasks" immediately had my mind racing over the mind boggling amount of cargo one could pull when stripped down 🤯
I've always loved the Ambassador Class. I never liked the Excelsior myself, but i initially hated the Galaxy Class when I first saw it, but it grew on me, lol. Wish they would have shown more of this class.
The Ambassador Class looks like an afterthought and something thrown together. I never liked how this ship looked, but perhaps that's because I love the Excelsior class so much.
The link between the old, and the new.... I love this design !!!!
Love this ship. Wasn't Calhoun's Excalibur the last in service before it was destroyed?
Isnt Excalibur an exelisior class, or did they just have the same name?
The model which is in great shape was up for auction recently and featured on the Adam Savage YT channel. Great looking ship. * Kind of stubby, late 80's/early 90's feel to it.
I would love to see a video on the Federation class, if you think you can find enough information about it
I agree with your speculation at the end it makes sense.
My Federation Romulan Admiral of Engineering made great use of the ship in STO. Kinda miss taking out the Fugazi sometimes...
Thanks once again Rick for the informitive video.
I usecto play star trek online some time ago.
I waguely remember in part of the story a Unviverse class. If i remember correctly.
I think thats what it was called 🤷♂️
Basically a massive version of one of The Enterpriises.
That woud be great.
The Ambassador class ships had heavy armor in addition to the strong shields. A tough ship.
A tough ship for a tough mission :)
You do good work bro love your content....specially sto story appreciate it
the best ship class of the tng era would love to see a series set on one
I really love both the Ambassador we got and the Probert version. I wish, I wish I wish I wish that we'd got to see more of them.
Hi Cert, great video. Thanks for the hard work.
I love the way it looks!
One of my favorites
I think your headcanon is perfectly fitting regarding the Ambassador getting squeezed out by a more capable new brand name coming on the scene while also having a reliable and cheaper alternative.I think the same thing happened to the Connies with the Excelsiors and Mirandas.
I agree. The Ambassador class was too unique to be cost effective compared to the Galaxy and Nebula which shared more parts and production lines.
In a DS9 novel (According to M-A) the Bajorans were given the license and design schematics of the Ambassador class for self-production.
At first they thought they'd been given a "hand-me-down" obsolete design, but they later found out, that it's actually a solid design.
I think that Ambassador is underrated because it was released between the Excelsior and Galaxy, which are both really good designs.
However if we look at the design lineages of the Constitution, Excelsior, Ambassador, Galaxy and Sovereign, it might be possible to find some sort of bigger appreciation of this forgotten flagship class.
With the Connie being the originator of modern UFP Starfleet design, a template if you will, you can see that the Excelsior went off in one design language with long, strenched philosophy. Something which is seen in Sovereign as well.
But if you look at the Galaxy, it isn't an inheritor of the Excelsior's lineage. It's a refinement of the Ambassador, which in itself is closer to the Constitution design lineage, than the Excelsior.
When the Ambassador was created, it was on the tipping point of duotronic and isolinear based systems and was upgraded as time went by.
By the 2340's when Galaxy design was in the midst of being finalized, the Ambassador was a very capable design.
But it was based on philosophies of late Excelsior era, which had jumped leaps and bounds, by the time of the Galaxy era.
My argument would be that if we go from the Connie, the Excelsior was a revolutionary design.
So was the Ambassador.
Where new tech and new design philosophy was introduced.
But the Galaxy was more of an evolutionary design. That is... it's a refinement of current technologies, rather than new inventions.
Not to say that the Galaxy didn't progress technology, because it did.
But all of the tech in a Galaxy could also be in Ambassador. And it'd work fine. Just wouldn't look as pretty.
The ending comments of the video did kinda state it. That One might as well make a Galaxy class, over an Ambassador class, because you'd get same performance, but the Galaxy would do with grandeur.
By the same token, The Excelsior's design was furthered in the Sovereign as a revolutionary design within it's own lineage.
With the USS Lakota being a good example of a ship, that's been specced up to the point of being able to handle 90% of the same tasks as a Sovereign.
But the Excelsior/Sovereign liniage has one doctrine and goal, whereas the Ambassador/Galaxy has it's doctrine and goal.
Similar ideas could be placed on the Miranda/Nebula classes.
Where in my head-canon, the reason that we don't see that many Nebula-class ships in late TNG/DS9 era, is because the Dominion war made Stafleet focus on the Galaxy-class as opposed to the Nebula, where the ship sizes and design would have overlapped the resources needed to construct them.
Hence why Miranda was pulled from mothball fleets to cover a scounting and logistical need, which the Nebula would ordinarily have had.
Likewise, the Sovereign would have been slated to replace the Excelsior completely, but now we have Excelsior-II and Odyssey-class as well, the former being an evolutionary design and the latter being a revolutionary deisgn.
TL:DR Ambassador-class built right before Dominion War would have been just as capable as a Galaxy-class, since it'd have the same tech as a Galaxy. But it was a 40-50 year old design, that didn't have as much pizzazz.
Excelsior could be made near Sovereign performance. Was kept in production because it was a different doctrine that Galaxy and cheaper than Ambassador, in terms of construction time and resources.
One of my favorite old ones!
Sto I got my Miranda TOS epic ship
I always got the feeling they didn't make to many.
There is a real world reason for that. The Ambassador Enterprise-C was a low-budget model made for one episode with extensive battle damage. It was unsuitable for regular use throughout the series, while the Excelsior model was borrowed from the higher budget TOS movies.
I always found it weird how many Excelsiors continued to pop up in STTNG and beyond despite being positively ancient, but for some reason Ambassadors were pretty much forgotten.
I speculated on this in my Ambassador Class video :P I reckon it was because the Ambassador was stuck in this middle-ground of too advanced to just be a replacement Excelsior, but not advanced enough to keep up with the Galaxy, although we do see the occasional Ambassador still in service in the late 24th century.
@@CertifiablyIngame lorewise you can come up with lots of possible reasons. I mean showrunner wise. Why did they create an obviously newer design but continue to use a much older one for other ships of the fleet? It'd be like filming a movie in the 90's but having tons of background cars from the 50's. You might expect to see one or two, but not virtually all of them. Stylistically it just seems like a weird decision.
The only thing I can think so far is that they wanted to keep the Enterprise C a unique phenomenon in the show, but then they were more than happy to parade other Galaxy Class ships around the Enterprise D, so was that really so important to them?
Rick does the job others can no longer be bothered to do.
This is a positive.
I notice you didn't include any shots of what I presume to be late-production Ambassadors, referred to in STO as the "Yamaguchi" after the one that made an appearance in this form in TNG. Said changed details include shorter nacelle pylons, caps on the bussard collectors (making them more resemble the ones on the Galaxy class), modified deflector dish, and a slight shifting back of the saucer section.
It would be very cool to see more ships from this "lost era." At least as long as they were done in such a way as to be faithful to the design aesthetic the Ambassador Class established.
The ambassador is my favorite design used for an Enterprise.
The latter Ambassador class was amazing.
definitly still has that starflett saucepan section :P
It's exactly how old Computer Chips look when compared to new ones in real life! It succeeds at being "Antiquated" compared to the D, while looking like the future compared to the Excelsior! What a cool design language! Those Extra Large Naccells really help to do the trick, all the newer ships make those a lot smaller or in a shape that is complementary to the overall design of the specialist design of the future ships. The bulky design language suggests they were thinking from the inside out, how the rooms fit together, whereas later designs took the Apple approach and looked at the ship from the outside first, then squeezed everything to fit into the design. I wonder if someone who served on both designs, the Ambassador, and Galaxy, if they would be able to testify, that the cargo bays for instance, on the Ambassador would perhaps be larger and have more convenient design features for usability rather than being squished to fit the overall shape of the ship's outside? Although, the Galaxy make make up for this by simply being larger? Or maybe all the features thought of during the lifetime of the Ambassador would inform the design for the Galaxy later on and it could be just superior in every way? But it would be nice to think some of the more seasoned engineers would actually say that they still have old preferences for the Ambassador in some cases, speaking to the feel of the older class in general, much how Scottie does the Older Ships, especially the original Enterprise...
Anyway, just some thoughts!
Thanks!
Great work
I love how you can see the lineage in the designs of the enterprises. Might slot the Ross class in before the sovereign.
The Ambassador class looks like the bastard offspring of the Constitution Class and Galaxy Class. I liked it.
Third favorite Federation ship after the Constitution and Constitution refit.
The Ambassador Class looks like a cross between the Enterprise D & Enterprise A
Such a shame it was under-utilised.
It’s light-years better looking than the Galaxy class.
Great looking starship...
Something I find curious is the odd gap between Ent-C's destruction, and the launch of the Ent-D. There's a gap of nearly 20 years there.
It doesn't feel like the Federation without an Enterprise in the fleet...
I find it funny that in this ship’s first appearance: it acts both newer and older than it should.
It’s supposedly “way outdated” but also “not so much has changed”. Plus (and this has always made me smile): Captain Garret should have recognized Picard. He’d already been Captain of the Stargazer for something like eleven years when her ship vanished, and you can’t tell me the Captain of the Enterprise didn’t know Jean-Luc Picard, youngest Captain ever up to that point.
Don't you mean the Stargazer?
@@AtlasAS7D
Yeah. I hate autocorrect.
I really want a Canon explanation of why we see plenty of Excelsiors and Mirandas but so few Ambassadors.
Starfleets RND was sluggish during the years between Khitomer (UC) and return of the Romulans and the Borg incursions and the dominion. They didn't meet a threat that could really challenge them and for nigh on 100 years. Technology stagnated somewhat. Thats not to say they didn't 'Develop' they just didnt develop quickly enough. The most modern class of the era the Galaxy was still a science and exploration vessel and the old designs were still fit for that purpose. The twenty years or so from TNG to the end of Voyager, like Q says, Starfleet found out 'exactly what was out there' and had to ramp themselves up. So now we see akira and steamrunners replacing mirandas, and sovereigns and inquisitors replacing excelsior and galaxy. Starfleet basically had it all their own way for a long time then they got their balls kicked.
@@LgiovanniF I agree about the complacency, but imo that doesn't explain the preference for older designs over the Ambassadors.
@@vic5015 the Ambassasor is a test bed for new technologies it was never meant to be the ship of the line. It was the precusor to it
I sure do like the Ambassador class for a "bridge" ship between the TOS era and the newer TNG era ships! I wish we could see more of the fine ships.
1:00 Aaaand thats why "Fan-Cannon" is best.
It side-steps the bosses that messed up the franchise, and takes the side of the artist and *fans* that actually love this.
The Probert design was SO superior. The only thing I prefer about the Ambassador that we got is the circular emitter.
Totally my favorite.
I think a reasonably satisfactory canon explanation for the "unsuccessful" could be that the Excelsior was more than adequate for the "9 times out of 10" type of missions around Fed space, which it probably was tbh along with proving to be a very adaptable design either intentionally or accidentally, while the newer Galaxy, Nebula, then more warship type designs just all translated into the "Neither superior enough nor cheap enough" sort of design of the Ambassador becoming logistically not a good deal overall.
I'll flesh that out a bit. We can even look at the crew availability. Certainly the Federation, big as it was, really struggled to crew ships once losses during the Dominion war started coming in. This would suggest imho, that there was never really a huge amount of crews available to begin with. So, while the Constitution with a crew of 430 was probably even too many, we can at least say that this class of ship, regardless of the amount of waring it was involved with, was one of the first deep space explorer designs and so it kinda needed to be that big and with a crew that big.
Fine, but so far as deep space explorers go, lessons were learned from the Constitution and while the ship was big with a large crew, it proved to be not big enough for years of deep space travel in which the sanity of the crew itself and somewhat cramped quarters became exposed, along with encountering alien races with ships and abilities simply too hot to handle. And so, enter the Excelsior Class. It's mass of 2.35 million metric tons compared to the Constitutions 190k, and overall dimensions to reflect that significant mass difference, reflects a ship that is now notably bigger, roomier and offers the sort of sustained warp speeds and creature comforts along with the necessary technology, to offer a crew most of what it needs. And yet, even though the Excelsior is many times more massive and roomier to the Constitution, it has a crew that's not even twice that of the Constitution. So it was more a case of Starfleet identifying from Constitution experience that for deep space exploration, what was needed was a much bigger ship with a lot more comforts and the ability to do things well within itself without breaking a sweat, otherwise crew moral and mental health suffers over the duration of a mission that could last years. Also, for first contact and border posturing, a big chunky powerful technologically advanced looking ship would be a requirement too which again, is a role even just a few Excelsior's would have filled. But for non-deep space missions and patrols within Fed space... ya, something even smaller than a Constitution would be perfectly adequate in most cases wouldn't it? Hence the likes of many other smaller vessels that filled that rolled perfectly fine and those only needed small crews.
So the Ambassador. Ya, it's mass is actually nearly that of the Galaxy. 3.7 vs 4.5. Ok there's a notable mass difference but when we reflect on the 2.3 mil of the Excelsior we can say they're kinda close given just how much more massive they are. I'd like to think that the Ambassador had a few serious design flaws that held it back, and ones that couldn't simply be retrofitted. So while the Ambassador was an excellent ship and superior to the Excelsior, that it just wasn't notably superior enough to justify its overwhelming logistical requirement to construct, and that sadly, a ship that was almost twice as big as the Excelsior didn't translate into a ship that was twice as good, or even notably better given how flexible the Excelsior was to upgrades. It was worth constructing for the few vessels they had and for reasons stated, 1st contact, flexing along borders with potential aggressors, AND a few for genuine deep space exploration. It's even bigger impressive size would have been a natural deterrent from would-be enemies who would assume the Fed is full of ships like this which it wasn't. It would have made a very impressive first impression when contacting new alien life which again, would assume the Fed is comprised entirely of ships as big and powerful as the Ambassador, plus for the few sent on deep space exploration missions, it has even more room and comforts than the already big and comfy Excelsior.
So good, but not good enough, and very big and logistically demanding along with still requiring a big crew similar to the Excelsior. So I guess it would have become clear that for the Federations "9 times out of 10" missions, they simply didn't need a ship that was significantly bigger and costlier and construction demanding than the Excelsior which as mentioned, kinda ticked most boxes and was apparently easy to keep upgrading with personally is a something I like the idea of for future humans... that foresight to create a design that ticks most all the boxes and constructed with upgrades and retrofits in mind.
I think the Galaxy/Nebula combo was Starfleets lessons from the Ambassador, whereby it was too big and not particularly that impressive to bother turning out in large numbers as a backbone to the fleet, so instead they constructed just a few Galaxies which were the ultimate, almost propogandist vessel to showcase Starfleet and the Federation as being a technologically advanced and powerful Federation, and so these small handful of Galaxies, just like the Ambassador before it, were to mostly serve as 1st contact and border posturing... a "Look at our might ship and think highly of us!" and "We have lots of these ships so don't mess with us!" sort of false front. Sure, a few examples would have been constructed for deep space exploration since that huge size would as mentioned, offer creature comforts and "soak up the miles". If you're going to spend potentially years on a ship going in one direction at warp speed, you would want the biggest, roomiest, more comfortable ship with a crew that's small enough to allow that size be utilized and keep everyone relaxed and happy etc. But, you don't need an entire fleet of these ridiculously expensive and time demanding constructs. And so, while the Galaxy was constructed in limited numbers for flexing and impressing, the real work horse would have been the Nebula realistically. Ok it didn't look as wow as the Galaxy, but it was, according to canon, supposed to be a smaller and far more flexible design that could swap out mission pods and wasn't as demanding to construct as the Galaxy. We could imagine that the Nebula, while utilizing a lot of Galaxy parts for the sake of streamlining, probably also utilized a lot of older parts that were readily available and in available in large numbers from other current starships, and could therefore be turned out in greater numbers.
So ultimately, the between the even bigger and more impressive Galaxy, and it's little brother Nebula, along with the logistically far superior Excelsior, this big lump of an Ambassador didn't really have a purpose anymore. For first contact, border flexing/posturing and deep space exploration, a few Galaxies now filled that role. For similar roles with a more expansive mission specific role, the adaptable Nebula which we can imagine as being both technologically superior and cheaper to make, would have filled that role. For the plethora of other less meaty missions, there was the still plenty big and capable Excelsior which as we saw when the Lakota fought the Defiant, was plenty strong and very upgradeable! Plus there was a litany of other starship designs that only needed small crews, were far cheaper and plenty capable at what they were needed for. So ya, kinda leaves nowhere for the Ambassador really.
Personally I think it's a beautiful ship. It really captures that classic Federation design and arguably looks more like it came after the Constitution and before the Excelsior, only for the fact that it's absolutely massive. I'd have loved to have seen a lot more of it. I'm just fleshing out some of my own canon with the above yarn I spun, but I think in another universe the Ambassador would have been a very numerous ship. I think if we just trim back the crew compliments of these ships we're good. AI would undoubtedly mean that starship crews are actually small, and as we saw with the Dominion War, sometimes having lots of smaller powerful ships with small crews that can be turned out in large numbers are actually better than big capital type ships that are inevitably a big point of focus, hard to produce quickly, have bigger crews, get overwhelmed by lots of smaller ships and their loss is a big big kick in the balls. But ya, for the wow factor and deep space exploration, it's gotta be a massive ship. You can't spend years exploring space in a cramped Uboat sort of thing, the crew would go mad.
Indeed, it is my favorite ship, too.
Head canon: Probert's original design of the Ambassador Class was the ship Starfleet was going to build, if the situation in the galaxy was more calm and peace-abiding. The ship we got in "Yesterday's Enterprise" was built around the diplomatic decline and the need form more military minded vessels created by the increasing aggression of the Federation's neighbors, mainly the Klingons. Thus a more straightforward ship was built that was easier and faster to build, and easier to repair, maintain, and upgrade as needed. Its simpler blockier shape also made the ship look more formidable and even intimidating. While families could be taken aboard ship, it was never encouraged at this time.
But as needs and trends changed again, swinging back toward peace and calm, The Ambassador was never renewed for more ships in lieu of the Galaxy Class. This also forced the Excelsior to stay in service where the more capable Ambassador would have easily taken its place. This all came largely to naught simply because Starfleet lost interest in building long serving vessels which put the brakes, but never fully stopped, on Galaxy Class production, defeated Ambassador and Excelsior production, all in lieu of smaller more specialized vessels. A long term plan meant to edge in more combat capability, with out setting off the Federation's "peacenik" alarmist bells and klaxons.
Only after, the Battle of Wolf 359 did Starfleet start to seriously lobby to build more capital and command ships. The Battle of Sector 001, also referred to as "The Borg on Our Front Doorstep", and The Dominion War stymied this as the need for smaller, faster, easier and quicker to produce vessels took precedent again over capital and command ships. The Hobus -Supernova- Hypernova and the subsequent fall of the Romulan Star Empire, surprisingly allowed Starfleet to finally get the Federation to allow for more new Capital ships and Command ships, as a means of consolidating area Command and Control functions and capabilities, more effective multi-role vessels capable of more specialized "heavy lifting". This leading to the ships such as the Odyssey Class.
It is such a good ship for what it was suppose to be. Some ships to maybe consider Saber class steamrunner class Loknar class and Chandley class ( the last two would be entirely beta cannon though)
Narendra-class is just the best design you could imagine to be a link between Galaxy and Excelsior
Great video as always
Much like the Constellation Class, the Ambassador Class is one of my Favorites.
Good vid, I like the ambassador class. It's a good Inbetweener.
I really liked the Enterprise C in every way
What at gorgeous ship!
I feel like nobody seems to notice how there's SO much constitution in the Ambassador's hull, couples with a more excelsiorish saucer and the general vibe and aesthetic of the galaxy
Probert's version was a direct halfway between the B and D, (okay they didn't have the B yet but shush) but the final version feels like a blend of all of them
I feel like you can do more Star Gate. Maybe you could cover the Daedalus or Prometheus class ships from SG-1.
I wish DS9's big CGI scenes included Ambassador Class ships. It would make sense that these would still be around for the Dominion War.