USS Vengeance Star Trek Into Darkness Review Analysis
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- Опубликовано: 15 фев 2014
- This is an in-depth analysis of the USS Vengeance from Star Trek Into Darkness. It covers several aspects such as a scale size comparison and overall design. There's some concept art and comparisons with other Federation Starfleet vessels thrown in here too.
The USS Vengeance takes its place on the list of rival starships of the USS Enterprise. There's been the USS Reliant, the Bird of Prey (more than a few times), that shitty Son'a ship from Insurrection that no one remembers, Shinzon's Scimitar from Nemesis and Nero's Narada. Anyway, now there's Adm. Marcus' USS Vengeance; dumb name but neat ship.
Therapy is a video series that’s part review, part retrospective and most just stuff… like random background information, trivia, mistakes, observations, etc. Hope ya enjoy!
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"DREADLOCKS CLASS" that was hilarious
I don't think that's what Khan said. Clearly, it was Dreglotsglass.
Forthwith Tx Good one
CorruptEngieJR Umm, nope. He says Dreadnought class.
I think "dreadlocks" is right. Abrams is a snarky SoB, himself. He deserves every bit of ridicule he gets.
+CorruptEngieJR - Yes "DREADLOCKS CLASS" with the psionic mind control antennas of doom
I'm surprised that no one mentioned this, but...
The USS Vengeance is just a bigger USS Enterprise with dark mode on
E X A C T L Y
Though hilariously, all TOS ships pre-TNG were just rejiggered Enterprise's.
no one like cause its at 69 likes.
@@monkethe1st373 No.
Waiiiit
"Nothing should be reminiscent of Nemesis"
>displays this in a video about Into Darkness
Big bruh moment right there
Well, when I saw the uss vengence, and heard it was made for war, I never thought it was made for combat, when I saw the two cannons, it confirmed my thoughts for me, theese things are nova beams ! This ship is huge mostly to contain all the energy the weapons need, it's like a mobile death star, it warps where it's needed, it stabilise, it charge the cannons, and it then destroy all the planets in a system with it's sun, comeback to earth and refill it's energy for later, it's the next step after nuke bombs.
TLDR : It's the nuke launcher submarin of space.
My spare change on the Vengeance.
1. It's designed to be an admirals flag ship so it's got extra showy observation bays in that 'V' section.
2. Planned as a pure warship its size can be attributed to not only an 'intimidation factor' but also extra armor and more importantly space for TROOPS.
It can be controlled by one person. You still need people to keep it running and if you're going to war you need soldiers.
3. The rediculous loading bay. It may have a small side door for shuttles, but that bay likely extends to the rear shuttle bay. Also, that may be a large staging area for troops.
You also need space for weapons and ammo.
Did you see how fast that thing can fire?!?
Is it 'over the top'? Yes
Consider the megalomaniac character that is supposed to commission it and Viola!
I dig it,
+Tony Trosclair But why make the bridge so vulnerable to attack from above and below instead of keeping it at the heart of the ship like the CIC of a real warship?
+dave19941000 TOS and TNG starships also had auxiliary bridges, so it probably created redundancy or decoys, after all, the ship is heavily automated? I would also like to think the bridge had heavy batteries that acted like a point defense and secondary shielding for the bridge.
+Marinus van Zyl And with a devastating arsenal of weaponry already on board, no enemy ship would probably have had time to come even close to the bridge to do any serious damage.
I always thought that the Vengeance was a modified hull of an existing ship class. That would also explain why a model of this ship is seen in the office of the admiral and nobody went "hey what kinda ship is that?" and why so many little details don't really fit the idea of a warship. If they just retrofitted a explorer with tons of weapons and automation that could make at least a little sense.
Or more likely someone forgot the model on set and the ship's design was just meant to be this movies big overwhelming baddie...
Tony Trosclair
Why does a ship need to be able to carry troops if you have matter transporters with unlimited range?
the vengeance is large because it can double as a tactical carrier and has lots of weapons, torpedo storage, and power cells, so it can keep firing at full power for weeks at a time
so you could just float in orbit around some undeveloped planet for weeks just tear the shit of the entire thing? Typical Star fleet!
@@DisentDesign Well this Starfleet can, they are more military based during this time period, the Narada gave them a big scare, so they scaled up everything in their technology to keep up, with the romulan ship of the future, which they believed was a romulan super weapon, since the size and how easily it destroyed the kelvin.
USS- ThunderChild starfleet ships in the kelvin universe were already giant before the Narada came through the singularity.
@@NCC1371 The kelvin is prime, and thats the only one that was before the Narada incident, the cadet ships were made after the Kelvin, so no, they weren't bigger.
USS- ThunderChild bruh the kelvin was the largest 23rd century starfleet ship before the kelvin enterprise appeared. Everything was already slightly different but mostly the same before Nero showed up. A complete alternate reality perfectly explains the visual aesthetic and larger ships in general. The best way to explain it is TOS is prime. Kelvin universe is prime-A which is mostly the same with slight differences in history but nothing big enough to really change things. Main two differences being slightly different historical events and ships built on a larger scale. Nero interfering caused the main timeline of prime-A to derail. It’s an alternate parallel reality like the mirror universe except it’s not the mirror universe and I’m pretty sure it has its own version of the mirror universe that we see in the comics.
I would imagine its huge because it's a dreadnought. Dreadnoughts are traditionally fleet killers, like: "bring you and your friends and I'll kill all of you." So it would need to possess weaponry of that level to the point that no ship, notneven any five other ships could stand a chance. So with all the firepower, redundant systems, advanced targeting power, it would certainly be very large.
As for the bridge location...federation ships mount their engines on sticks poking out of the hull...so I don't feel like having a bridge sort of exposed is a big deal compared to that.
Dradnaught means "Fear Nothing"
And for a ship like that im sure they can find space in it to make a Battle Bridge, burried inside.
As they say, "bigger is better" and "might makes right."
😊👍
It is ironic because US naval dreadnoughts from the early 1900's have lots of big guns, but are much smaller than traditional battleships. I guess Dreadnought just sounds imposing :P
@@cujoedaman Dreadnoughts predate what we think of as battleships. They were basically proto-battleships. Dreadnoughts and battleships are ships built around their guns. As the guns got bigger, they needed bigger and bigger ships to carry them.
I love this ship. It's such an amazing hi-jacking of the classic constitution-class, showing that it's a twisted version of what Starfleet should represent.
I think the sizing makes sense when you think of a few things, like how easily the phasers tore Enterprise and the shields apart. Most of the Engineering section is probably several Warp Cores to power the weapons in the first place. And if you look back at the brawling scene with Kirk, Khan, and Scotty, there were tight rows of things that made me think of 80s computer mainframes. So the minimal crew makes sense if everything is run by computer. A few engineers and a captain (or maybe just Scotty) could control everything and make repairs to the automated repair systems as needed. Then those swinging arm cannons could me magnetic accelerators for some sort of kinetic weapon to make things very dead after taking the shields down. (Like STO. Phaser the shields away, punch the hull with torpedoes.)
As for the hangar's wee door, remember that the Vengeance was showing its port side to Enterprise. It's probably used as an emergency space ejection system in case of fires since nothing flew out when Scotty opened it. (Other than that poor guy who wasn't secured. Seems like you can't watch one Abrams Trek without someone dying by space exposure.) Going back to the point about the port side facing, there's probably an entirely larger space that serves as the actual hangar, just not part of that one that Kirk and Khan flew into. Like the hangar bay on Enterprise, Vengeance must have one even larger, possibly to house squadrons of attack fighters. So the size of the ship is justified as a fightercraft carrier with several Warp Cores to power and charge everything, especially weapons that can take on another Narada after the fleet was decimated at Vulcan.
Just my own two cents. Heck, two paragraphs. :P
I would speculate that the ships size is due to:
One, enhanced propulsion systems, requiring a larger warp core, and more fuel. It could be that like modern day tanks or battleships, this monster guzzles fuel a mile a minute.
Expanded cargo bay is provably for carrying supplies, torpedoes, spare parts for critical systems, and aforementioned fuckloads of fuel, or even fighters, like the Scymitar.
The cutout parts of the saucer are most likely where the crew quarters would have been, while the remaining section of saucer likely contains the conventional 180 degree phaser beam banks.
The placement of the bridge is not a significant weakness, since every other federation ship in the movie has their bridge in nearly the same place.
As to the coloration, it could be layers of absorbent armor designed to soak up the intense heat of phaser hits before it can punch through into vital systems, or cause hull breaches.
This would explain why the ship is classed dreadnought, as the primary difference between a dreadnought and a normal battleship is how heavy the armor is.
I mean, she's supposed to be more advanced than _Enterprise._ Presumably, the reason _Enterprise_ is so large in the Kelvin timeline is that she was modified with weaponry that she wasn't outfitted with in the prime timeline due to the threat of Nero. Immature tech tends to be massive, so naturally _Enterprise_ became larger to house the tech. If _Vengeance_ carries even more advanced technology, it's only natural she'd have to be even larger. In other words: yeah, I think you're absolutely right.
you put more thought into it then the writers
I love this explanation.
@@Cleptro the NArada was borg-augmented by the Tal-Shiar iirc, so they probably had a tech leap from future Borg tech, which htey could reproduce but not downsize into a 300m space frame.
Dark Hull paneling might be stealth coating, designed to absorb sensor scans and make her harder to detect. Her angular hull probably helps that out so she functions like stealth aircraft today
This is such a wonderful channel - you are so casually and easily funny with a true appreciation for Trek.
The only reason I can see for her size and the odd cargo doors is for the ability to carry large numbers of troops, their equipment too. That cargo bay is actually reminiscent of the reconfigurable bays on real world assault ships, large empty spaces that can carry equipment or temporary barracks.
I assume the Vengeance is so big for a few reasons. 1) To carry a buttload of munitions. 2) To engage entire battle groups (presumably Klingon) by itself and walk away while possibly sustaining mild damage to its massive hull. 3) In order to carry fighters, though this is mostly speculation. They call it the hangar deck when Scotty is running around down there, but there doesn't appear to be any fighters or shuttle craft. 4) To accommodate fully armed drone units (2). Seriously, those things appear to be pretty big and they carry photon torpedoes as used against the Enterprise before she drifts toward Earth.
Those were arriving the following Tuesday
Am I the only one who really liked the Vengeance?
+LikeabossIBA Most people like the purpose, but they are a bit confused about the logic behind the design. The fact that the movie only cameo'd this design, probably didn't help matters.
No, you aren't. There are just a lot of bitter old Trekkers here too ass hurt to admit that the ship designs were much cooler than their old rehashed models.
Nope,I loved it to.The Vengence is one badass ship,just too bad it was used to try to take out the Enterprise .If Starfleet used that kind of ship all along,the Klingons,and the Romulans would have thought twice about messing with the Federation.
I ❤ USS VENGEANCE.
@@vladimirdilworth7242 the Klingons and romulans would've shit themselves out of shear fear alone at the sight of the Vengeance and those big f**king rail cannons it packs.Now imagine their thought at the sight of 30 dreadnought class federation war ships.lol that would be a lot of shit.They would literally drown in their own shit.(Federation captain)"Hold fire.the enemy has shit themselves to death."(uss vengeance crewman)"damnit! are we ever going to get to test this thing in actual combat? I am sick of the enemy committing harakiri in their own fecal matter!"Plus it wouldn't do the enemy any good to run.the vengeance would just blow their asses out of space while in warp.
"She's big, she's black and she's got balls" Looooool xD
Id like to call it the uss dubstep. Featured in star trek: into references
I own the STO version of this ship, really love it. I however did notice a lot of details that you missed to mention, or likely even knew about.
- The deflector has 2 large armored doors that can close in combat mode.
- The ship has combat attack drones, in the game a total of 6 can be launched. I however believe that this ship may also partially serve as carrier being able to launch a lot more in the actual movies.
- The ship is so heavily armored that it would be hard for even a Galaxy class ship to penetrate the hull.
- Just like in STO, the ship is able to cloak
- The ship has fast firing boardside torpedo launchers, similar to the Thunderchild's Point Defense System yet a lot more powerful.
- The main weapons are Phaser Emitter Arrays and work similar to cannons, but are actually beam weapons instead that shoot short bursts instead of the long regular phaser array systems
- There are doors on the backside of the saucer, which basically is the top side (rear) of the neck. All similar style ships including the connie have this
- On the top and bottom of the saucer are 2 red dots behind the bridge section (4 in total). These serve as mining beams and tractor beams depending on what you need them for. (Echoes of light mission will show this clearly)
- This dreadnought is so huge that it dwarfs even well known ship classes, such as the Galaxy, Borg Sphere, and even command battlecruisers. It is in the same size range as Herald cruisers and dreadnoughts.
- The dark coloring may refer to the current Royal Navy submarine, which is of course just like any other navy submarine dark in color.
For the name, actually it is not much different from actual names used in Star Trek. Many ships are named after water bound navy ships from the past or city names, countries, etc. This also applies to the Vengeance class, some examples:
Vengeance-class frigate 1793-1814
Operators: French and Royal Navies
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vengeance-class_frigate
HMS Vengeance (Canopus class, 1899) Royal Navy pre-dreadnought battleship
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Vengeance_(1899)
HMS Vengeance (R71) (Colossus class WW2 carrier)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Vengeance_(R71)
HMS Vengeance (S31) (Vanguard-class submarine) Currently in service
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Vengeance_(S31)
Longer wikipedia list of ships classes that used this name:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Vengeance
After seeing this list, you can see where I base my facts on why the ship name is NOT false or wrong for the ST universe. Also why it has the features that it does, carrier capabilities (carrier history), cloak (current submarine), frigate history (far past) and even the dreadnought part can be verified by the 1988 ship version.
Interesting info, cool to read. Hope you still enjoy flying the thing around in STO after these years.
Love these videos. "She's designed for making things dead!"
I'll buy that for a dollar！！！
Outstanding production! I dont know if people really know how much work goes into segments like this. All of your videos are superbly created! WELL DONE!
This was WAY funnier than I expected - fantastic work!
I get why people may not like the vengeance design, but why do people gotta hate on the new enterprise. it may not look like the Refit enterprise, but it's still very enjoyable to look at, and doesn't stray too far from the original design, besides some slight quirks. Besides, you have to keep in mind they had to update it to appeal to not only the Star Trek fans, but a general audience aswell.
+EK OddLink Because new directors are messing with a tried and tested formula for a well loved franchise because of that formula?
because trek fans are pathetic loser pieces of shit
@0:28 Looks like the fucking batmobile in space.
And these movies are as crappy as the 1960's Batman series, at least that show wasn't taking itself seriously!
Everyone hating on Nemesis and Insurrection you have to remember though that is still legit true trek which are by far better in what they are and the universe they live in than this new subverse reboot trek. I miss star trek. I would even watch more voyager or enterprise compared to this stuff.
It's the better Trek, that's why it's not around anymore. Lmfao!!
The sexiest Federation starship of ALL! I love it!
I do feel I appreciate NuTrek (thank you for the excellent short term, guys) a little more for what it is - trying to make Star Trek profitable again. 2009 as has been stated before is a good bit of fun and though not the perfect Star Trek story does give us a view of how the future SHOULD look like given the massive jumps in tech we've had since even the 1990s.
Into Darkness was cool in my opinion but like so many sequels failed to expand on the things the first film did so well but I am sure with new writers and a new director - Star Trek 3 could be a bit more original and truer to form. We also have to remember that from JJ's perspective, these Star Trek films were essentially audition tapes for his Star Wars role. Can't fault the man for pursuing his dream, even if it was at the cost of another franchise.
Either way, Vengeance is cool. Badass ship.
*****
I share the scepticism regarding some of JJs work. It will be the Trek fans, who have to keep the idea alive, that ( as opposed to Star Wars, as much as I enjoy that, too) Trek is more than just a franchise of movies.
Trek has always been about some ideas and values which are several steps above the simplistic mysticism in Star Wars. Trek envisioned a way to go about space exploration, when other Sci-Fi movies had white-only crews.
But Star Trek after Nemesis was in need of some reinvention, and if nothing else, JJ achieved that.
And to be honest, even in the original Trek DNA there was that idea of "enterprising young men (and women)" going out there, exploring without fear that which we have never seen before. Trek just needed some readjusting to current action movie speed.
Hopefully Star Trek 3 (or 12, isn´t it?) will be able to bring both speed/action and story depth together.
The only thing that baffles me is...a single photon torpedo can tear the crap out of ANY ship with its shields down...this ship survived over 70 torpedoes that detonated inside its f---ing cargo bay! That's like a human being living after swallowing 70 lit cherry bombs! All I want to know is, what did Khan make the hull out of...and he was still able to limp the ship into San Francisco.
retluoc true, however keep in mind photon torpedoes are also launched at light speed or faster to increase the damage done... these torpedoes while still carrying a payload, were stationary
retluoc They used regular torpedos. Cheaper and subs are now useless.
retluoc Is that really the only thing that baffles you?
+retluoc Regular photon torpedoes have a antimatter supply for their explosive power. The ones inside Vengeance that detonated were those modified to hold Khan's "crew", so no antimatter explosive power. If those had antimatter still in them, USS Vengeance would be nothing but space dust...
what really baffles me is how in this " new timeline" they were able to find khan, when in TOS, the enterprise after being well into her voyages happened to randomly stumble upon khans ship. Heck, why didn't they get someone who also resembles ricardo montelban? and lets just be real, all the advanced tech and resources of the Romulan empire, and the only thing they had to rely on to save their people and their planet was Spock and his magical bowl of kool aid? Give me a break! They screwed this reboot up soo badly its not even funny.
I personally enjoy the work you do on RUclips so much, it makes me feel angry that you don't have more subs.
Considering the competition is Trekyards, you should have 50,000 subs.
the USS VENGENCE IS TRULY A BAD ASS SHIP
The vengeance is just a commentary on nuTrek, and to a greater extent, Hollywood's difficulty in creating an ominous threat without falling back on the unstoppable foe shtick. Lazy writers lack the creativity to develop drama and stakes without the Dragonballz approach to villains.
Perfectly stated. Well done.
Creativity died with the introduction of home theater, since repeat theater-attendance dropped, and there was little point in making big-screen pics that nobody would watch more than once ON the big screen. That's why the biggest movies were during the 70's, while the 80's saw mainly SEQUELS of these; and then we got re-makes and retcons of old premises.
Even "Wrath of Khan" was a sequel of "Space Seed," and a retcon one at that, making Khan into a villain rather than a profound character of the series backplot which advanced the series premise of peace, freedom and humanity, vs. the "Superman" angle.
So "Into darkness" was a sequel of a re-make of a sequel retcon...... gee, how could THAT possibly suck?
Wulf Nailed it.
I guess it's true what they say: those who can't do, criticize.
It's called having an opinion. you're from 1995 so you don't get that, kiddo. or is it IQ? :)
Cinema always reflected quality of the society. Shit society = Shit drama, shit plots, shit villains, shit characters
The Vengeance is definitely one of those ships that slowly grows on you the more you look at it. At first I was very meh on its design but I've gradually come to actually really like it. Into Darkness still has a lot of weak parts to it, but the Vengeance is definitely not one of them.
I absolutely love how it seems to shield the navigational deflector dish since it is a purpose built warship
Love the look of the Vengeance! Wish we could see her again in another movie or show!
That design should be the next enterprise
I just pretend the new Trek movies are "what-if" fan fiction, and not canon. It's more enjoyable that way.
or maybe just a different timeline
But the real question is, do you like STD?
They AREN’T canon. They are in an entirely different timeline, so that Abrams could do what he wished with the story and not be bound by canon.
But they ARE canon, just in a separate universe.
This is the second time line, dude. And yes, it can be named as fan-fic. Abrams was smart enough to understand that touching main time line isn't very good idea
Im SO glad i stumbled onto this channel, your videos are fantastic!! Subbed. The background music on this particular video is SIIICK braa!! more with this music more more! lol,
Looking forward to youtube informing me of more uploads from you.
I enjoy your videos! Keep them coming and thanks for your hard work on them.
My pleasure. They're fun to make and there's definitely more on their way. Thanks for watching!
JunkBallMedia the original dreadnaught class starship is supposed to have 3 nacelles like uss federation & the galaxy-x class enterprise-d so y does this not have 3 nacelles plus i thnk tho hole may signify new starship looks like the uss archer (37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbx1kbkA0l1rb64yto1_1280.jpg) or because it's a warship maybe it needs a warship look
Your Therapy vids are great, keep it up, man.
Just one wish; as funny as the videos are, very appreciated are the special information that fans can´t get easily anywhere else. So, whenever possible, please add some information, which isn´t common Star Trek knowledge.
Paul Jg Thanks. I try to balance them because everyone has different levels of familiarity with these video topics. I know some of the points I hit up are common Trek knowledge, but when pacing a video sometimes I have to touch on the basics before going further, otherwise a random/obscure point will just get drowned out if there's no context. Thanks for the input. I'll do my best.
You should do one on the Defiant (DS9). Its my favorite Star Trek ship, plus it's got all kinds of inconsistencies between canon blueprints & designs from what we actually see on screen (torpedo launchers). Plus, it's just got a pretty cool history on & off the show.
Just started watching your videos...i love them!
Woaaaahh that concept art is beastly
I definitely agree about the impracticality of the Vengeance. It's huge for no reason other than "big must be scary". The writers of DS9 had it right with the Defiant, compact and agile is much more useful for a combat vessel, not to mention more cost effective. Assuming Khan gave Starfleet a technological leap, they would have been better off building 10 smaller Defiant-sized starships than one clunky Vengeance. Combat ships should designed with the idea that they should be tough and powerful, but ultimately they should also be disposable, not so unduly expensive that losing a few means losing the war.
I agree 100% seeing this ship up close just proves that JJ is clueless and the wrong director for star trek. He even admitted he's not a fan and never watched the franchise.
Agreed. I mean where the hell are the people who designed the Akira or the Defiant? Is there really no one to remind them how to make stuff so that it actually makes sense anymore? These new Star Trek films are such a hijackery!
Because it's not like we've ever seen giant ships in Star Trek before. (Dominion Battleship, Borg Cube, Voth City Ship, Scimitar)
Of all the superficial reasons to dislike the new movies, this has to be the lamest.
drksideofthewal I think you are missing the point.
JAnx01 Enlighten me.
Thank you for making this. This just makes me hate Abrams meddling even more.
Yeah, how dare he try to resurrect a DEAD concept?
Nice video bud. Keep up the good work.
Nice review I hardly knew there were holes in the saucer section
I just do NOT understand all this hatred for Abrams' Star Trek and Star Trek Into Darkness. I thoroughly enjoyed both movies and I am an "old school" Trekkie/Trekker having grown up on TOS and then becoming a HUGE fan of TNG! I thought Abrams did a great job in revitalizing a dead franchise, one that was pretty much done for after Enterprise and Nemesis both tanked.
It brought back Star Trek into the conscience of the public again, and now we have a third film coming out and a new show. If Abrams' Star Trek had failed, then Star Trek would've died off, spiraling down a black hole until it was no more!
Now, as far as the Vengeance goes, I thought it is/was a fantastic and mean looking star ship, and a welcome change to the typical grey or white look of most Federation ships. It had but one purpose.....to kill Klingons!
wow I didn't know people like you existed, spot on comment!
Some portion of Trekkies and Star Wars fans are just pure poison. I don't want Star Trek or Star Wars to end I love both universes.... Even JJ's ST and SW... I think some fans would be happy for the franchises to die, that is just spitting on Roddenberry's Grave :(
I agree. personally I liked them all, even Enterprise in a way (it had a little charm to it.) I agree with size of vengeance. it was the 1st ship build for war with Khan as its visionary, Khan being from an earlier time, probably believed in Bigger the Better and size being intimidating. I think many forget that it was Khan's ideas that designed the Vengeance. he wanted it for himself, it would be his Battleship, his flag ship and his palace.
Anthony S. looking at box office numbers for the movies, seems like many go to see these jj movies and want them. I agree they need a tv show and they are running one, but it's on a pay channel.
"It had but one purpose..... to kill Klingons!" - Yeah, you named it. Why isn't it obvious to you that a large portion of the Star Trek fans despise the new JJ-verse? Exactly because of things like this they do.
I don't know what one can interpret into and value in Star Trek. I guess you do value other things like a lot of other Trekkies do. These - me included - value the humanistic aspect and the technology utopia, however before both we value the combination of both: Technology used for humanistic purposes.
What's wrong with the JJ-verse, then? Well, the humanistic part is gone pretty much entirely. Without that Star Trek lost its essence (so perceived by many Trek fans) and the JJ movies are not much more then an science fiction action movie, be it a bad or good one. There are a lot of science fiction action movies, both good and bad. But none had the audacity yet to write a label on itself that it just is not. (Again, we don't talk about Nemesis here. :-P)
What is Star Trek for you, if not the combination of humanistic ideals and a firm believe in the good of technological progress and science? (Not meant to be polarizing - I just sincerely wonder.)
Is it the "wild west set in space"-like nature of TOS? Wouldn't explain TNG though. Or the somewhat militaristic nature of Starfleet (ya know, ranks, duty, honor, all those militaristic glorifications)?
I agree with you. Star Trek has this scent of a good and brighter future. But also, that does't mean everyone in the Federation had good intentions, just like happens in today's world. People wants peace, but not everyone wants it (or not everyone wants to make peace in a peaceful way) and that is what i think the JJ-verse tried to show, especially with Into Darkness. Yes, the Federation is about peace and progress, but not everyone agree with that and, just like our time's people, it will take some time before everyone tries to make peace in a peaceful way and have a peaceful mind. But yeah, i really hope all the upcoming (possible) movies goes back into the exploration and sciency parts of the ST personality.
"She's black and has balls" I AM CRYING WITH LAUGHTER!!!
I enjoyed this it was funny and informative, excellent work I look forward to watching and seeing more of these videos
I'm using this ship class on my main in Star Trek Online, one of my favorite ships in the franchise right next to the OG Enterprise and Enterprise-D.
The reboot Enterprise is bigger then the Enterprise D? That can't be right. The way the movie portraits it is the same size as the Enterprise TOS. It may be a little longer but it is no way it is bigger then the Enterprise D. I do believe that the Vengeance is almost the same size as the D.
nyc1164 Bigger, faster, younger, more breathless, more juvenile, and not right. That's JJ Trek!
+nyc1164 on film it scales to about the same size as the TOS ship but the interior sots make it bigger than a galaxy class it's a lack of communication between design teams so really the ship is sometimes small then stupidly big
+Duncan Kane Yeah, it's like JJ Abrams made the reboot Enterprise into a Tardis.
The Vengeance dwarfs Enterprise D.
+pzokz
One three words to disarm morons like this: Star Trek Nemesis.
This video demonstrates the crappy design of the JJ-Prise films.
It's sad to think that 36 years later they have not been able to top let alone match what was done in Star Trek: The Motion Picture!
(The late 1970s and 1980s were a great era for design in science fiction. The Star Wars films, Star Trek, and the original Galactica all had very well-designed ships and there were reasons for why things were the way there were in general.)
I think another Trek designer said that part of the problem with the JJ-Prise was that it was NOT a unified design. It took a little bit of this, a little bit of that but it never came together in a logical, unified way... Don't know how else to put it other than to use the example of the TMP Enterprise. That ship had a very art deco vibe and consistent design features -- everything ship looked like it belonged there and it came together logically and there was a reason and explanation for things (just like the original Enterprise from the 1960s series).
All I hear about JJ-Prise is that it's bigger, it's designed like a hot rod, and all that other crap that has nothing to do with design logic. The mentality behind the design seems more like a kid putting together a soap box racer from a junkyard.
AvengerII I'm looking forward to covering the reboot Enterprise in more detail eventually. I'm waiting until we get closer to Star Trek Beyond so I have the most up-to-date info available. It's a very polarizing design.
AvengerII JJ beefed up the ships because he wanted to turn Star Trek into Star Wars. It's a shame Star Trek had to deal with that as a franchise as he used it as a stepping stone towards the film he really wanted to make.
+AvengerII I'll agree with you about the TMP Enterprise design. But everything else was HORRIBLE design-wise, especially those atrocious leotard/jumpsuit-like uniforms... I half-expected Kirk and Decker to break out and start "sweating to the oldies" halfway through the film.
+Shane Mitchell I think everything is going too far. The Enterprise, V'ger interior and exterior, The Klingons, Epsilon 9, the Earth Drydock. Plus all those great new sets - The new engine room, bridge, rec room, etc...
+Shane Mitchell eyah but then... they DID evolve that already.. ever watch TNG? by season 3 all of that crap was gone.. so yeah.. Abrams basically just 'rebooted' decades of evolution in favor of... Action & lens flare? also, dont forget: that was 1979, in case you didn't watch TV back then or have parents that grew up @ the time, i guess u wouldn't realize just how 'rough' TV could be; even in the 90s! Geez Look how long "The Sentinel" ran for and half of those episodes are really... bad. They say hind-sight is 20-20 but often times we get tunnel vision :) but maybe im just drunk, so you can ignore me, eh!
I laughed way to much at dreadlocks class and the you??? parts! Great video!!
The Vangance is Build for war.
another good vid on the badass ship from trek, just laughed also at all the fanboys whining over the j.j versions, get over it, if they didnt make such a terrible movie like nemesis they may have actually made more in the prime universe, that trek had become outdated and universally corrupt by the writers and studios, it was well overdue to bring trek into the 21st century...
You are fucking pathetic. The hate is justified.
It's a dumb design. It's the "edge-lord" class.
It isn't a dumb design like you think it is I say it's a better design.
I can tell you liked the Vengeance in the Movie.
Its a cool design overall, but totally epically fuckin dumb AF how they made it where she can be run by just a dozen crew.
more random than usual. I like this. good humour in this one :D
The music in this vid is killer!
Wait, wait, wait just a DAMN minute here! You mean to tell me there is a Federation Starship designed by Kahn? That is a WTF a Dreadnaught class? Dammit, I'm Chief Medical Doctor, not Montgomery Scott, that's his damn job to do the miracle work of the god damn Enterprise and explain all the technical specs. Now with that said, I never remembered seeing THAT in my career in Starfleet at all! So as Chief Medical Doctor, it is my opinion with the licking that the Enterprise took, and Kahn jumping what, WTF 30 METERS? Damn that boy has been taking his fiber, sticking to his vitamins, and avoiding all the bad habits of drinking, smoking, and so on to be that healthy. That, or this JJ Abrams wants to Super Size the character like a MCCY D'S fast food meal. But in conclusion he should be dead Jim! WTF???
Chill out doc.
+Leonard McCoy Didn't Khan jump after the starship had ploughed through the skyscrapers? That would probably mean that the starship's general frame would have been all smashed and bent out of shape? Look at the Enterprise E when it rammed an enemy starship. It could have been that 30 meters. Doesn't seem like Federation primary hulls (saucers) could really survive ploughing into solid matter intact?
Gosh, I hated this movie so much. I didn't mind the 2009 movie so much, but this one was a total crapfest. Mimicking TWOK only made me chuckle. Oh JJ... please don't screw up Star Wars any further than the Prequels did...
Love your videos mate
Love these! Am I the only one who realised the music playing is from Friday the 13th: Part III? =P
just shows you that JJ has no fucking clue!!! cool vid!
What happened to the other Trek? Oh that's right, it got fucking CANCELED.
The USS Veangence is the shining example of what happens when you hire artists (or art students) to do the job that really should have been done by actual industrial designers. The JJVerse ships are like a "Cargo Cult" of Starfleet. They know sorta kinda what the ships are expected to look like, but they never actually bothered to dig deeper and look at any of the design thought that went into the originals. Hence the people creating these new designs never bothered to think about how things work. They just went for "Wow! Man! That looks Kewl!!!". Hence why the JJVerse reboots feel so much more shallow and insipid then the originals. Why they just don't stand up to repeat viewings. And why the viewer finds it so much harder to simply suspend disbelief. The Veangence is possibly the dumbest thing ever seen on Star Trek. And that is counting Star Trek V, Star Trek Insurrection and every other episode of Voyager.
+andrew taylor Snap, the whole ship cargo cult reference was spot fucking on with these designers. They only according to the maker of this video only had one individual as any sort of consultant from the original or TNG era of star trek. Everything in the JJ sub universe is orientated to what looks glossy and ADHD. Although insurrection was the weakest of all the TNG films it is still TNG and leaps and bounds better than this subverse.
+andrew taylor How do you feel about alien ships on any of the ST series? Some of those designs truly didn't make sense, from an aesthetic or functional viewpoint?
+Marinus van Zyl I can be more forgiving of the Alien or Ship of the Week ships, as really they were largely there to differentiate themselves and not much else. Their purpose was to be "alien". But even then most of the series designers followed certain design queues and a common visual language. Most of DS9 and Voyager's alien ships followed certain logic paths. You could see the functionality, at least in contex. (And once you see the language it becomes extremely apparent which "ship of the weeks" we're not purpose designed, but rather were really built for something else and just grabbed off the shelf).
Of the Alien stuff by far the worst or most illogical badly thought out offenders happened in the movies. V'ger being a prime example. Or the other shining example of over scaled spiky kewl overriding any actual design sense, Nero's Mining Ship, which makes no sense whatsoever. (Seriously why does a small crew of freelance miners have a planet destroying, moon sized super ship? )
Is that why all the movies are rated higher than the originals on sites like IMDb? Moron.
Is it really fair to compare one series that has only 3 movies and a few comics to build it universe, to a TV series with hundreds of episodes, many books and 4 good movies, to build it's universe and has 40 years worth of fans.
The bridge being visible from both the top and bottom is for the purpose of when sensors are down in battle. Even after sensors are down, the window can still be used to see up and down. We see this weakness of viewscreens in WoK during the nebula battle. No issues if the ships had windows. This is a great design, especially for a warship.
Love these videos
I'm sorry but I cannot stand the new Star Treks. I wish I liked it but I do not. It lacks depth.
JohnnyZenith I had fun with the 2009 movie. It was dumb, but fun. On the other hand, Into Darkness was just dumb. I like the idea of Kirk and Spock disagreeing overing principles like The Prime Directive, but those ideas got buried under a mountain of stupid action movie tropes. I'm still eager to see how they handle the next one. Thanks for the positive words. I appreciate it.
I absolutely agree.
+Junkball Media
Kind of like these videos! Dumb but fun.
700+ million dollars to make this stinker of a movie, you could have given Nicholos Meyer 1/10th of that and you would have a real StarTrek...Original Wrath of Khan in 1982 > 8.6 million !!!
Holy Shit! And people defend these new Star Trek films as well as the Abrams' cash sink, Bad Robot.
Shit, we should have just taken all e money they used in the movie, and just built a real Enterprise with it.
+Annalee H
The Enterprise already exists in this time line you idiot. Where is the logic in building another one?
Man I love that ship. It's the only model I own of a starship from any SciFi franchise I watched. For reference, the only other model I have is of an F-14 TomCat because of Top Gun, so that how few of them I own.
My pet theory is that since it was designed by Kahn, the design is partially to play to Marcus's ego with an intimidating size, but it's actually designed to carry his people (a good number of 'lower' beings) to another planet after Marcus starts the war with the Klingons. The bridge being so isolated and centered makes sense if it's actually a trap for Marcus, so he can get killed in the first engagement with Klingons (hit here for prize), or can be cut off easily from the rest of the ship after the Augments take control of the lowers.
In other words the Vegence like the J.J.verse is stupid!
pfrenczliable looks cool tho
pfrenczliable Fuck you
I think a case can be made that *Into Reference* is the worst Star Trek film to date.
Yup. I said it. I think this movie is _worse_ than Nemesis. _Worse_ than Insurrection. _WORSE than Star Trek V!_
This is ignorance at its best. Worse than Nemesis? You are an idiot.
Dr. Robert Bruce Banner
Nemisis was at least entertainingly bad as well as having less impact on the Star Trek universe (or even Abramsverse). Nemisis was awful but it didn't have the incredible number of plot holes, stunt casting and foolish technologies. It at least had the semblance of a Star Trek film.
Into Dumbness was _toddler Michal Bay_ smashing ships together in his bathtub.
Ha ha ha ha!
You are such a bitch.
Dr. Robert Bruce Banner
Watch that blood pressure, fanboy.
Geahk Burchill
Watch that vagina, bitter Trekker.
That is why I like the Battlestars from the reboot of BSG. They are huge, they are slow, they have loads of cannons, they have hangar bays and launch tubes, and etc. and the most important, the command center is located somewhere central of the ship, where its protected the most.
The song is Theme from Friday the 13th, part three.
These Abrams reboots were designed with drooling halfwits as their target audience. Khan posed a threat in Wrath of Khan because he was brilliant, charismatic, and hellbent on revenge. You never even thought about the fact that the Reliant was smaller than Enterprise and, at best, equal to it in firepower. The threat/villain was Khan, whom we knew was a dangerous foe because Ricardo Montalbán brilliantly played him as such. Likewise, we knew he was superhuman because Montalbán's acting convinced the audience that he was.
Into Darkness is the exact opposite of Wrath of Khan, it's almost like a tutorial on how NOT to make sci-fi action film. Cumberbatch portrays Khan as a stiff, brooding asshole. He's utterly lacking in charisma, making the very idea of him having very nearly conquered the world seem laughably implausible. We only know he's a superhuman because we see him beating up a bunch of Klingons, getting hit a lot without being knocked out or killed, and he's somehow a whiz at designing starships despite the fact that he was last conscious in 1996. Oh, and his blood can reanimate the dead for some reason. The ship he commandeers is the same way, the audience only perceives it as a serious threat because it's bigger, scarier looking, and we're explicitly told (via the film's incredibly clunky exposition) that it's really, really powerful. Either Abrams and co. don't know how to follow the 'show don't tell' axiom that all first year film students learn, or more likely they didn't trust the audience to be able to pick up on any degree of subtlety. So rather than a well-acting character-driven drama like Wrath of Khan, we get this Michael Bay-calibre megabudget fast & furious schlock. This is not Star Trek, and anyone who actually enjoys this rubbish is by definition NOT a true Star Trek fan. They're morons who are easily entertained by bright lights and loud noises.
Yeah, but... hey look, something shiny.
(agreed. To me, mentioning any JJA trek = no, sorry, but no. Trek imploded in the 90s. Sometime when a borg in catsuit took over. Or was it that soap about a former chief transporter. It was okay. Then. Anyway, that's all there is to it. ;) )
"Anyone who actually enjoys this rubbish is by definition NOT a true Star Trek fan."
Illogical. Enjoyment of old Trek makes one a fan. The addition of enjoyment of dumb action movies that look like Trek invalidates nothing. The rest of your post was dead-on right, don't cheapen it with unnecessary shots at other fans.
Berend van Berkum Yes It would seem I am. I shall now make first contact with the prick.
The only reason the Reliant was smaller to the Original Enterprise was due to budget, the film was vastly under budget... But still I prefer the Original WROK to JJ Abrams into Darkness, I actually like into Darkness.... But remaking of a masterpiece is usually results in a mediocre film . Ricardo Montalban casting made sense considering he was same character in TOS/WROK. Benedict Cumberbatch Khan was very intelligent vastly more then Ricardo Montalban's and proves himself by enhancing 23rd century technology to a even greater level.... RM Khan didn't come across as intelligent, Kirk out smarted somebody who was apparently genetically perfect including heightened intelligence, even though RM Khan was fighting Kirk in a 3D Battlefield, his superior intellect should of accountant for this variable.. I could understand a normal man from a early time period could be mistaken for this bad error of judgement, but a Super Human shouldn't be possible. Also those with superior intellect should not be charismatic..
However saying people who like the JJ Verse are morons just proves that Trekkies are very poisonous people. The same fans of the Original series didn't like TNG, it's very juvenile and I think Roddenberry would be very disappointed in the fans.
Films with lots of CGI and big bangs are not necessarily poor films, bad story/characters and plot are!
Khan is an idiot in TWOK. Kirk outmaneuvers him at every turn. He subverts the Reliant's shields, baits Khan into the nebula to level the playing field, overcomes the disadvantages of fighting in the nebula, and demonstrates a more level head and superior command ability. The only advantage Khan had over Kirk was that the Reliant was a more powerful starship than the Enterprise, and Khan squandered it by taking Kirk's aforementioned bait.
Khan in ID, however, actually lives up to his hype. Takes on large numbers of Klingons, outmaneuvers Kirk and Scotty aboard the Vengeance, outplays Marcus, and beats Spock in a straight fight. His only mistake was underestimating Spock's strategic intellect.
This video on the Vengeance shows exactly why I hate the JJ Trek verse and how it pisses me off. I truly fear for Star Wars. They have no regard for consistency, or plausibility - new reality be damned.
Well JJ wasn't a Star Trek fan. He is however a Star Wars fan. And from what I've seen from the production, with the return to practical effects, I'm fairly optimistic.
Then don't watch you pisser and moaner. They will do just fine without your support.
So...what do you think now that you've seen the new Star Wars?
marsm9 I am very satisfied!! With exception to the fact that it "feels like episode 4" in some ways, it was quite good albeit non-stop. Needed some slower moments, but crazy action out of a modern movie is to be expected.
tasev1 Agreed a good update to the franchise.
you got me with this one.. subscribed!
Just got this ship on Star Trek online and she's a glorious machine built for one purpose and she does it immensely well
A stupid ship for an even stupider movie
This is pretty rich, coming from someone who needs to wear a helmet to bed.
Oh ouch...I better go get aloe for that, it burned so bad
KUIPER BOLT
Yeah because your original comment was the stuff of legend. Straight from the sandbox.
Each time I watch one of the JJ Star Treks I need to get completely drunk to cope. They suck so bad.
Each time I watch Star Trek TMP, Insurrection and Nemesis I wake up 7 days later. Apparently they have the power to induce comas.
The Vengeance is an assault cruiser, like the Sovereign class Enterprise E. The differences between an assault cruiser and a normal heavy cruiser (Constitution, Excelsior, Ambassador, and Galaxy) is that the assault cruiser gets rid of the wing section that connects the primary hull(saucer section) to the secondary hull(star drive/engineering section). Instead, they connect directly to each other, thus reducing the cross section that enemy ships have to shoot at. This is all explained in the following link about how the Ares class from the up coming Star Trek Axanar is another example of this.
Into Darkness should have been about Admiral Marcus and the USS Vengeance trying to start a war with the Klingons and the enterprise crew figuring out the plot and trying to stop them. Think of a mix of Star Trek 2 and 6
in one of the star trek novels, the return (i think was the title, timeline: right after kirk died in picard's arms) there was an unofficial uss enterprise, defiant class, where the black of a starfleet warship was explained. it's not paint. it's micro-diffractural carbon, which absorbs sensor energy, much like stealth tech today. its like a safety feature in case the cloak malfunctions
Its an interesting thing to note that HMS Vengeance is one of the Vanguard class Submarines in the Royal Navy. Its a Trident Ballistic Missile platform, looking at the sheer size of the Dreadnought, another RN vessel, its possible this ship was meant for expeditionary warfare or simply mass destruction in retribution as a deterrent.
omg I died at the end with Dreadlock class! jokes. I love these vids
Gosh Darn-it I love this channel.
I needed that fix.
You make awesome videos thank you🖖
5:02 sulus estimate didn't suck, since the saucer was almost vertical at that point, so jumping 30 metres horizontally makes for a massive gap
Nice video. Excelsior looking.
I wonder how many "true fans" realise that the destruction of the Kelvin creates a new timeline where Starfleet realised the need to make their ships larger, stronger and more heavily armed than originally intended. JJ didn't try to throw the old Star Trek away, he's working with a new concept intended to make the franchise more accessible for newcomers and still enjoyable for old fans. The old series were obviously better - they're what made Star Trek, Star Trek. The new movies aren't bad though, they're just different, and it's refreshing to have the Kelvin Timeline films that feel new while still sticking to the the classic universe we all know and love. If it was a new TV series I would understand why people felt there was too much action, but these are movies, which require the plot to move at a much faster pace. I love Star Trek, but that doesn't mean I should feel outraged by the franchise being revived in this way.
The door on the vengeance was on the side of the primary hull. Similar to the shuttle docking port on the refit Constitution class.
omg you should be a news anchor! amazing
Why wasn't this recommended until now?????
Great video.
The design of this ship is so stupid, but it looks great.
Also turns into USS Dubsetp when moving at warp speed.
About that 30meters Jump, the Vengeance was standing up with a slite tilt, so from above the distance from the Bridge to the rest of the saucer was only 30m and the rest of the distance was just falling down, angles and stuff I think lol
I find no irony that the Vengence and similar themed Star Wars ships had those strange looking cannons... JJ just likes cannons.
I share the scepticism regarding some of JJs work. It will be the Trek fans, who have to keep the idea alive, that ( as opposed to Star Wars, as much as I enjoy that, too) Trek is more than just a franchise of movies.
Trek has always been about some ideas and values which are several steps above the simplistic mysticism in Star Wars. Trek envisioned a way to go about space exploration, when other Sci-Fi movies had white-only crews.
But Star Trek after Nemesis was in need of some reinvention, and if nothing else, JJ achieved that.
And to be honest, even in the original Trek DNA there was that idea of "enterprising young men (and women)" going out there, exploring without fear that which we have never seen before. Trek just needed some readjusting to current action movie speed.
Hopefully Star Trek 3 (or 12, isn´t it?) will be able to bring both speed/action and story depth together.
awesome video
Re. "He just jumped 30 metres!" If you take into consideration that the saucer was propped-up on what was left of the engineering hull, and assume that Sulu was only talking about the horizontal distance Khan had to jump to clear the gap, then it fits quite well with the 1450 metre overall length...
I've been wondering if they were trying to set up the Borg for NuTrek 3 with the Vengeance - didn't Scotty find it being built inside a giant black cube? The Vengeance looks like a fusion between Borg and Federation technology - it has a black and green color palette, it's got clunky shapes instead of the smooth streamlining of normal Federation ships. Then there's the cyborg on the Enterprise bridge, who is technically a "borg," if not one of the"Borg." The NuTrek timeline descends from the Enterprise timeline, in which NX-01 fought the surviving Borg from First Contact, so they have had contact with the Borg already. Surely Archer filed a full report on them, and it wouldn't be hard to imagine the super-sized Federation ships we're seeing are a response to Archer's Borg encounter rather than the appearance of the Narada.
The Venegence Class is large because it carries huge amounts of munitions, computers, and needs surface area to mount these. It also has a very large hangar for fighters probably idk but that would make sense. The hole in the saucer is so that much smaller ships and fighters can travel through the massive saucer without having to go all the way around. The cargo bay has small exterior doors but an interior one that leads to an elevator that leads to a way to get the stuff in and out, there are no huge doors there as huge doors are weak points and on a warship there have to be as few major giant holes, most likely all cargo bays feed out of one entrance door that is air locked away.
It is large so it can carry troops. Lots of troops. The bridge is situated so it can detach and egress from either the top or bottom of the saucer. The gap is to accommodate a concentrated force field emitted from the saucer. Those emitters doubles as transporter emitters to transport the bridge elsewhere.