After the Star Destroyer won by using a micro-jump, the Star Trek lawyers would crush the First Order for violating their copyright on the Picard Maneuver.
@@hong1202 Bruh. If you think the Picard maneuver is from Abrams than youre really missing out on star trek. I never watched any of the star trek series until the lockdown and now ive binge watched Next Generation, Voyager, part of Deep Space Nine (but honestly its bored me to death) and now I'm at Enterprise. You really should at least watch Next Generation so you know what youre talking about when it comes to Picard
Bobby Ray Victory deep space nine gets a lot better about halfway thru IMO, it just took a little while to get the back rolling, and it doesn’t have as much of the “ flavor of the week” style of the other series,at least not int the same way.
y'all forgot something important. Phaser engagement range is much larger than turbo laser engagement range. the Enterprise itself can target a pinpoint spot on a planet from high orbit. the Vengeance can just stay outside of effective range for the Resurgent class and just ignore the low yield turbolasers that do impact its shield.
Idk about star trek starfigejr defences but the tie fighter and bombers would be able to disable the engines and in TLJ you can see how they did a lot of damage to the resistance ship, if the got Kylo it's game over .
The reason why the first order didn’t use tie fighters against the resistance fleet was because the resistance was too far away for the star destroyers to provide fire support
In star trek the phasers are just to accurate the vengeance would just one shot one kill them in a few minutes... Maybe good idea for a distraction but nothing the vengeance can't easily handle :)
they always give the win the Star Wars, when the technology discrepancy demands Trek vessels win. the only advantage Wars has is hyperdrive they literally jump into an alternate dimension to travel further distances faster at slower speeds. they always seem to forget a lone Star Destroyer of any class can not kill a planet alone...and a lone Constitution Class from the Prime Universe (technologically inferior to the Kelvin timeline counterpart especially in terms of tactical systems) can kill a whole world. you wouldn't need the Kelvin timeline Vengeance, TOS Enterprise, with Kirk and crew can kill anything the Empire and the First Order had. to include Star Destroyers of all classes, Death Stars and Starkiller Base. as for the hyperdrive advantage hyperdrive only works once you escape gravity wells unlike warp, so if say Starfleet ever developed it themselves...they would then be faster.
Wow, do you have it wrong. The Admiral Marcus would not beam troops onto the Star Destroyer, he would beam the Storm Troopers and crew off of the ship into space.
@@karbazagarsonofzadnaon8238 It's not impossible, but I believe Admiral Marcus would use the transport on high powered Photonic Torpedoes and send it to their bridge, that would have finished them off by now.
The hyperdrive would be completely negated by the fact that they’re completely outside of their galaxy and don’t have access to maps. Meanwhile, Starfleet ships can ALL jump to warp, plot a circular course around a target and light it up because... you can totally fire while at warp.
Hyperdrive wasn't depend on the map and could work completely blindly The map itself only provide the safest route for the hyperspace since hyperspace jump greatly affect by how clear gravitational area around the predicted route
You ever heard of emergency hyperspace jumps good sir? Also navicomputers calculate the safest route through hyperspace it doesnt need existing access to maps it just makes the time required to calculate a jump quicker.
Thank you! (On the part about fighting at warp.) A Star Trek vessel can fight and maneuver at FTL speeds. A SW ship wouldn't even SEE the enemy they would just be hit. There is no defense the SW vessel could mount to defend against that. Their only choice would be to flee.
There's the cheap trick of beaming torpedoes. Admiral Marcus wouldn't bother beaming over a security detail with a bomb to blow up their bridge, he'd just beam photon torpedoes (probably set to the highest yield) to various sections of the ship. Photon torpedoes against shields and hull armor in space might not be too spectacular but in the air filled ship environment, the chain reaction of secondary explosions would be devastating.
We don't know if the shields on the star destroyer work like the ones on starkiller base. There might be no way to beam people aboard, we just don't know. But I do think the Finalizer's TIE fighters are being forgotten and we know for sure that the TIEs could at the _very_ least distract the weapons of the Vengeance, if not do some damage through bombing and strafing runs.
Colin Thorneycroft But the Vengeance can launch assualt drones which are faster and more maneuverable than the TIE's. They carry proton torpedoes and once they run out of them, the drones will ram the target ship
Forgetting that Star Trek does have Transworp tech and also slipstream drives; while they are not as fast as hyperdrives they can still cover vast differences. Star Wars always relied upon shier firepower which clearly didn't do them justice in all of the battles they lost. Tactical maneuvers could easily beat any slow moving star destroyer.
That’s not even the half of it, Star Wars Shields also work differently to Star Trek Shields and are A lot weaker due to the power requirements used for both types of Star Wars Shields, And yeah there are 2 Types of Star Wars Shields, Energy Shields, and Kinetic Shields, Energy Shields Stop Energy Blasts like Turbolasers, While Kinetic Shields Stop Physical Objects such as Torpedoes and Missiles. However while you can Fire through Energy Shields in Star Wars, you Cannot Fire or Launch Craft while the Kinetic Shields are up and the Kinetic Shields must have time to recharge after being lowered in order to be raised again. (You want an example of that, look up the Clone Wars Episode “Cat & Mouse”.) Meanwhile Star Trek’s Deflector Shields are a Hybridization of the Two able to Shrug off Energy and Physical Attacks, and can last longer in a fight too considering they don’t use much power.
@@yeetyeet5079 also, sorry to burst your bubble, But Star Trek Ships are faster, (At Sub-Light, Star Wars Ships are faster at FTL Speeds but their Hyperdrive is more Dangerous than the Warp Drive Navigation-wise.) Full Impulse Speeds (Star Trek’s Sub-light) is rated as a Max Speed of Warp 0.99 (or 99% Speed of Light). And we could literally build the Impulse Engines used in Star Trek, as they’re just a couple of Fusion Reactors that Accelerate Super-Heated Deuterium out their back.
@@Kreachie doesn’t really matter if it would take years for a warp drive to cross the galaxy but low level hyperdrives can do it in months so there would be less time for something to go wrong
On the Vengeance, I would utilize the transwarp transporter technology to beam a few antimatter warheads to key points instead of wasting crew. I would have also flooded the area with tachyons to weaken the shields of the Resurgence.
big deal no problem for a starfleet ship. while the star destroyer is travelling at 2x times the speed of light any star fleet ship would have killed it a thousand times before it could have detected a threat since warp 9,95 = 985.074 times the speed of light
Jaylyn Abrams True. And that will be a pain if only from shear numbers. However the voyager has one advantage. We have seen in star trek that unless their sensors are damaged they can hit small fast moving targets almost all the time. With the exception of torpedoes but i dont know enough about the way they are protected to comment on that.
Photon torpedoes uses a matter and anti-matter warhead in a casing that can move at low worp(depending on if it is fired while the ship is at warp) making it harder to hit.
The Resurgence would be better off to keep the fighters on board. Don't launch them. Starfleet point defense vs fighters is 100% accurate. That's why you never see fighters on Star Trek. The few times we did see them, entire attack groups were destroyed in less than a second.
May the 4th be with you. I am currently watching a Star Wars marathon and the empire strikes back is on. I was just wondering, how did Luke fit all that equipment he brought to Dagoba in his X-Wing???? May the Force be with you
Victor H under the knees is a quite large and advanced sensor array. I remember the t65 does have a cargo compartment but it is somewhere else I just don’t remember where.
Actually in Star Trek Cannon many times in combat ships have matched the shield frequency of other ships which allowed their phasers to completely bypass shields until the other ship re-modulates their shields. The Vengeance doesn’t need to do much other than keep pounding away at the Star Destroyers turbo lasers.
Actually, this whould not function: the turbolaser is a gun that fires projectiles of overheated plasma, not phasers or ion projectiles, but the vengeance would be able to scape tractor beams
Why just the one bomb, why not beam multiple bombs onto the Star Destroyer at various critical areas? The engine room alone would be glowing on the sensors just from the sheer energy signature.
Randy Bentley You managed to bust this whole 15 minutes long discussion. If we assume, that ST can teleport bombs trough SW shields, there's nothing that can stop them from just teleporting nukes to engine rooms of SW ships and destroying them one-shot.
And that's just using regular transporters. If you used the Inverter from the TNG episode The High Ground, then you wouldn't even have to worry about the ship's shields at all, just dimensional shift over a couple of high yield tricobalt bombs and call it a day. The theory for the inverter was put forth in the 23rd century and with Section 31 being the way that it is you gotta know they'd have their own version of D.A.R.P.A. to make some pretty crazy stuff for any and all contingencies.
If it were designed like a conventional SD then you might have a point, but that split level area that is big enough to fly a starfighter through opens up a plethora of locations to beam bombs too.
Or the other way around. Beam out any lifeform on the bridge and dump them in outer space. Or start beaming away huge chunks of he hull. Preferably pieces of the bridge. Or pieces of essential technology, like computers, or parts of the hyperdrive. It will probably cripple the Finalizer in no time. The transporter is clearly Starfleets biggest advantage over the first order. They just need to use it smart.
I dunno about the final verdict of this one... I think Admiral Marcus would use the Vengeance's superior maneuverability to get behind the Finalizer and blast its engines with phaser and photon torpedo volleys.
Getting behind a ship is realistically impossible and only ever happens when someone tries to flee. Think about how far you have to travel trying to circle around someone well staying out of range compared to how far you have to travel to turn around. trying this would just maneuver them into a broadside battle that would be very bad. However the first order is incompetence enough that Marcus would probably still win Marcus: wait time out. Hux: what do you mean time out. there are no time outs in war, I'm not going to wait for you (continues for several miutes). Marcus: ok I'm ready now time in. Hux what how did I not see that coming this is like that thing with poe all over agian.
nukes are two weak, a single turbolaser is as powerful as a small tactical nuke, proton torpedoes can be much more powerful then a nuke and in star trek photon torpedoes are stronger then nukes too.
It seems like they completely forgot the amount of TIE fighters the Finalizer has that it would probably launch to take out the engines. If each wing of TIEs is 72 that's a good 144 ships which I would imagine could eventually damage the Vengeance's shields enough to break its propulsion and let the Finalizer get in close and pound it with all its guns
Wait, i thought microjumps can only be done if they have an interdictor class. Otherwise, that entire tactic of using the interdictor to pull thrawns own ships into range of the rebels wouldn't make sense
You are right just finish reading the books. Also you need a coup ship there with the interdictor and it then pull in the rest of the fleet in at weak points.
If I remember correctly, while the interdictor ships help, after getting enough experience with the technique, Thrawn's men got their hyperspace calculations down so well they could do so without the interdictor. Anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
I agree they are both getting closer to the feel in pacific rim. Particulary star trek is unrecognizable comparing the reboot with the original series.
You guys forgot a couple key features of the Vengeance. First it has multidimensional radar so it could easily track a ship in hyperspace. You also forgot about the kamikaze torpedo drones the Vengeance has. I think it would easily follow the star destroyer and finish it off before it could do any repair
Star Trek's best bet is to jump behind the Star Wars ship, into its blind spot and torpedo its engines. (Scotty manually controlled a jump into Titan's atmospere, within a few dozen kilometers of his target. The computers on the Vengence could probably do better.)
If you can get through the shields which have proven to be much stronger, just remember that the enterprise rammed through 60-70% shielding on the cymitar while star destroyers have rammed smaller ships with no damage.
Everybody forgets about the star destroyer power reactor, which is mounted on the ventral side and is designed to be ejected in a malfunction emergency. How long would it take for Starfleet sensors to locate the reactor in such an exposed location. A volley or two of photon torpedoes with a simultaneous full power phaser beam hitting the reactor housing would either disable it and eliminate their power for shields and weapons and hyper-drive or overload it and cause an explosive runaway power reaction. Combined with superior maneuverability, I would give the Vengeance five minutes at the most before the the star destroyer is crippled or goes boom.
There is an entire series about that topic on youtube actually. Boofire191 has made the serious. Just look him up and you will find some interesting things. ^^
Love this Vid, just watched it. ESD or Earth Spacedock may not have had its 40 wartime phasers emitters installed during the time period you reference for this, but ESD shields were the most powerful in the Federation as the prime outpost for the Sol system, and ESD always has a home fleet dock. The Resurgent could have fired at ESD for a 100 years and never weaken a single shield facing.
You forget that you are saying they would send the security of a starship onto a warship. The security guard and the phaser pistol are meant for unarmed intruders as well as for exploring planets. All purpose built warships in the federation have a marine unit and or a maco unit detached to it for planetary fall and quick military campaigns equipped with a powerful phaser rifle, plasma granades and since the USS vengeance a section 31 warship that was meant to retaliate against the Klingons if war broke out would carry more deadly armements such as a disruptor rifle.
The ships in star trek are far more maneuverable than you give credit. All ships, even shuttle craft, can literally run circles around all turbo laser plasma bolts. They'd never get hit. Constitution class ships fight at least at 0.85c. A turbo laser goes at 0.00003c at most because it is plasma. By canon, star wars ships do not go even close to that fast. You also ignore planetary defenses and make the space station defenseless. In this timeline, an example of a space station would be Yorktown Base. You see it in Beyond Darkness. It had millions of people. One of its arms was 17.5 miles long. It had thousands of defensive satellites and turrets. It was on the edge of chartered space. I think they would have better to defend the sol system and earth with billions. 1 capital ship would be no match for a station without specialized tactical knowledge.
that's what batteries are for. 1500 TL provides fire superiority, while a 725m long battlecruiser pretends to be a 6m long snub nose fighter. you can flit about all you want a stable firing platform, heavy shields and superior firepower ftw. again, 725m long ship doing a circle around the vengeance means all 1500 tls and torps get to shoot at it. The JJ Enterprise goes down like a $50 dollar hooker.
Aegis030 I mean there’s that or it could just sit behind it and legit nuke its ass with antimatter warheads aka photon torpedoes. I’m no expert in thermodynamics but last I checked you can’t shoot through your own ship. Also while I’m on it sure there’s 1,500 turbo lasers all being aimed by person shooting at a ship that moves so much faster than the plasma shots at such a distance I mean good luck leading those shots vs the vengeance’s computer controlled targeting and firing which could potentially be timed to shoot through they shield refresh. Also transporters plus photon torpedoes equals easy way past shields.
Great Debate indeed. The Vengeance would have a hard time against that behemoth. However, Starfleet would have another 25 to 50 ships to assist in no time. After all this is Earth they are defending not some far flung outpost.
If there is one thing that Star Trek is known for, it is the inconsistent continuity. A Borg cube managed to destroy an entire fleet that was fully crewed and fully supplied, only for the Borg to get their asses kicked by a crew with no means to resupply and/or replace their losses despite having superior numbers. Voyager gets banged up, yet it is in tip top shape despite it being previously established that Voyager had no allies and/or the means to replace losses in both manpower and supplies. The Ferengi are built up to be the dreaded enemy of the Federation, a mysterious race notorious for devouring their business partners, only to act like over the top clowns during their first appearance and their first encounter with the human race being was a century before Kirk.
I think the reason they left those out is just so the two can have a fair fight. If the vengeance showed up and fought the entire first order, it would have been destroyed. I can understand why they left out the other ships.
I agree but with convenient timing this is possible, look at the first time the borg attacked in next gen like 14ish ships to defend earth because really poor timing. Also star fleet can converge everything they have because they don't know the limits of hyperdrive so the first order can't actually hit any planet they want but star fleet would assume they can. It would also be pretty consistent with st plots for this to happen then the enterprise shows up and against all odds uses vaguely explained tactics to single handedly destroy the first order saving earth because everyone else is too busy diening to other threats the enterprise will have to deal with in the next episode.
Correction: In the Kelvin Timeline the starships of the Federation developed a new kind of FTL drive. This is faster than the theoretical warp 10 and could cross the Galaxy at faster than light speed. This is mentioned in the specs of the Kelvin constitution class so assuming since the Vengeance is a secret super ship from section 31 they probably improved it compared to jjprise. Like if you see this so people know the corrections. Btw it also mentions that other powers like the Klingons and Romulans were afraid of the UFP’s new drive. Edit: just saw I said light speed... meant faster than light speed
Warp 10 is also effectively present in all places at all times so warp 10 is omnipresence so how you figure that out? And it isn't theoretical it's been achieved in voyager
@@biggsydaboss3410 in a vacuum light is a constant that's how we can measure vast distances between stars etc there is no other metric 60 mph is 60 mph whether your in a starship or a submarine warp 1 in TOS is warp 1 on TNG speed is distance/time to change it you would need to change what a lightyear is OR how long it takes but as a lightyear (speed/time) is established to be constant(its in the name) the time can't be changed neither can the distance as Light in this context is constant therefore warp 5 in TOS is warp 5 in TNG anything other than this is just bad writing and shouldn't be taken into account, if your talking about warp15 etc from TOS it's established that warp 15 is actually warp 9.999999 warp 12 is 9.999
first order would never know it was at war the star fleet ships travel 500 times the speeds of any ship in star wars. even the old crappy ships from Enterprise travel 60x the speed of star wars ships a runabout could end a star destroyer before they knew it was there. In fact the only star trek ship a star wars ship could even possibly catch would be Zephram Cochrans warp ship
Difference being that warp jumps are much more precise than hyperspace jumps. An extremely short hyperspace jump is extra-system while star trek vessels can do jumps within a few kilometers distance.
In Star Trek DS9: Trials and Tribulations, Captain Sisko successfully beamed members of Defiant's crew through a shield refresh gap and so beaming is a valid tactic. In the Star Trek universe, Photon torpedps have been beamed several times. Given this, all Vengence or even a smaller Excellsior class needs to do, is beam a few torpedos to key postioons, and the Federation wins.
So you want to put it up against an almost 20km long ship with a super laser that cracks continents with a single shot? With thousands of turbo lasers and dozens of fighters and bombers
May be a year and a half late, but I'd agree with a caveat or two. If the vengeance's cloaking tech was simply photo-refractive I don't know how effective it would be against sensor detection. It would have to be able to mask the presence of the ship entirely (heat, mass, reflective surfaces and so on). That only becomes an issue depending on how sophisticated the sensory equipment on the SD is though, which I don't think is ever explained in detail. Not in the movies at least, I'm sure there's "data" on it through some extra source.
@@thewretchedpleb7484 Star Wars sensors are always rated as being a lot less accurate than Star Trek sensors. Think about SW IV A New Hope's trench run. Now compare it to a molecular scan by the TOS Enterprise.
@@thewretchedpleb7484 Star Trek Cloaking Tech usually masks a ship's energy signatures, depending on who built it. Romulan cloaks are the most advanced and complete shroud a ship. Just look at the Scimitar from ST: Nemesis for a perfect example.
I’d argue that Star Trek shields are stronger then star wars shields. Also earth has ground based defenses also there in federation territory especially the core so they will be jumping into heavy populated and well defended space.
Wait what about the Vengeance's deflector shields in tos deflector shields of ships like the Enterprise could withstand several direct hits from an antiproton beam powerful enough to completely destroy planets if the kelvin timeline deflector shields are just powerful as the one's in tos or stronger would the Star Destroyer's turbolasers even be able to take them out?
uh, you know an "anti- proton" beam is an (anti- matter) beam, right ? Unless you have a " navigation deflector " to clear the atmosphere out of the way of the starships' beam canon, the antiproton beam will not make it to the planet's surface. You ever seen a game of pool being played ? The "que ball" is the antiproton and the rest of the racked balls is stander matter.
@@Ben-ig3bf That's been the case since day 1, plus the Vengeance has more weapons that the guy never mentions not to mention it's way more maneuverable, it can go behind the other ship, destroy its engines, and shields and spamming photon torpedoes since it has multiple cannons on the saucer section, aim at the bridge, and boom, even with that many turbo lasers by that point they wouldn't be able to deal enough damage in time.
I feel like a major aspect that was overlooked in the video was the 2 FULL wings of 75 tie fighters carried standard in the Resurgent Class which would at the very least divert some focus off of the star destroyer. Not to mention that especially in the new movies, tie fighters are capable of causing some major damage to capital ships.
Actually the USS Vengeance is just a hair shy of 2 km. . . Someone did the calculations using the pixels when the Vengeance was going down over Star Fleet HQ.
Ryan M. Dupée O yes certainly. But I assumed that it was so obvious in SW's case that it didn't even need mention. Remember that 200 gigaton laser quote?
The station is not disarmed. That's a myth. Their shields would deflect the turbo lasers plasma mass to minimize damage. Sensors would penetrate the Star Destroyer to determine complement, weakpoints, layout and energy sources. Excelsior class ship would be able to engage quite efficiently till the Dreadnought showed up. They also don't factor in impulse speeds are faster and more agile than star wars technology. Source data Klingon Academy and Star Fleet Academy simulator combat games which I had both. Since the sensors are superior they would see opportunities to not only beam but also to fire weapons to avoid Star Wars Shields. Not only that the photon Torpedo uses a subspace field to sustain speeds even at warp. The issue I have with the Hyperspace jump is it takes along time to calculate the jump plus they are in unfamiliar territory. Our asteroid belt then the Kepler belt would RIP the star destroyer apart. Time itself would hinder tactics useless.
it was not always armed in proper cannon it was unarmed most of the time it could be armed but it would take 2 weeks to get the defence systems online as they were stored on earth when not installed on the station due to the need for it to maintain the abillity to hold and repair a large number of starships it was only defended by a fleet of 12-15 runabouts and a small fighter wing its main defence was the nearby allied fleets of the member worlds like andor and the other nearby worlds also by the main shipyards at mars which if you were going to attack earth you would destroy them first
5:52 Look at Ben's face as he has an existential crisis, realising that since Turbolasers are projectile weapons the Borg couldn't actually adapt to them like he said in his borg vs empire video
If the galactic empire enters the star trek universe, they would need a bit of time to scan the galaxy and just hyperdrive to planets and bases, they have the industrial capability and manpower to overrun and control a galaxy. People act like star wars is technologically interior when in fact they are completely capabe and extremely advanced. They would both adapt to eachother technology and ultimately the empire would win just because it hat the manpower and resources to do that.
If you can transport a bomb to the bridge, you can transport a photon torpedo directly into the star destroyer's engines and cripple it's ability to move. Then you will stay out of range and carve the ship up like a nice turkey. There is no contest on who would win here. It's so easy.
@The Archangel Hate to break it to you, but phasers are plasma based as well. They are nadion *particle* beams. If you can see it without being the target of it, it's plasma. And have you heard of auxiliary power? Trek ships have that. It's why a trek ship can dump its reactor and still maneuver and fight. Remember that moment in Nemesis where Geordi says that Shinzon knocked out their warpcore with his first shot and then they still went on to fight him rather than roll over and die? Yeah. The Wrath of Khan? Same thing. Death Star loses its reactor and it explodes.
dixievfd55 all the same, resurgent class shielding is designed for both energy and Kinetic weapons. Also, the resurgent has 2 reactors, the large bulb on the ventral side of most star destroyers are their main hypermatter annihilation reactor, placed there so it can be ejected into space in the event of a melt down, there’s also a secondary reactor that would provide enough power to allow the ship to jump to hyperspace and keep basic systems and defence systems online such as life support, engines, shielding and some basic weapons. So yeah, resurgent would still win.
dixievfd55 the Death Stars reactor was connected to many very large kyber crystals that amplify whatever power they take in by millions. Go watch the video called “Hera and Kanan destroy the imperial freighters & the kyber crystal to see one of those crystals explode. Both Death Stars had dozens of these crystals and hundreds of smaller ones (same size as the ones in a lightsaber)
@@Some_Random_Asshole but youre just looking at phasers. If you count in photon torpedoes wich corecct me if im wrong use antimatter to get their explosive power, which by itself is more than i think the shields of the star destroyer could handle. Also after a scan, they would have found the reactors and telportet some nice bobs near them. Kaboom
Everybody forgets about the star destroyer power reactor, which is mounted on the ventral side and is designed to be ejected in a malfunction emergency. How long would it take for Starfleet sensors to locate the reactor in such an exposed location. A volley or two of photon torpedoes with a simultaneous full power phaser beam hitting the reactor housing would either disable it and eliminate their power for shields and weapons and hyper-drive or overload it and cause an explosive runaway power reaction. Combined with superior maneuverability, I would give the Vengeance five minutes at the most before the the star destroyer is crippled or goes boom.
Maybe I missed it in the moment I was typing up something, but why weren't the Ties deployed? They'd distract at least the Vengeance, and be much more manoeuverable than either capital ship. Also, is it standard practice to have massive bombs lying around on Star fleet ships? I can understand cannibalizing a torpedo warhead, but it seems a strange procedure full of curious logic to have just lots of set-piece large/powerful charges that are not part of the ships standard weaponry ammo loadout
Actually there are smaller fighter craft in a DS9 episode (Sacrifice of Angels) used by Starfleet. However we could assume that they probably have decent shielding. The weaker-shielded TIEs would probably be one-shot by Vengeance phasers.
Star Trek torpedoes move at light speed so they will pass threw the imperial shields as if the ship had no shields. Just like what happened to the death star. Just saying.
8:11 Wouldnt it be better to use transporter code 14 (which essentially means to blow something up with the transporter) to destroy an important part in the reactor or something.
You forget that a in Legends at least, a Star Destroyer's reactor blowing up would also blow up a planet next to it. This is why, in movies, the Star Destroyers don't really Blow Up, but instead just fall apart as the reactor shuts down from failing. But then, the same happens with Star Trek Warp Cores, considering there's anti-matter in there.
HunterSteel29 um, what!?! Watch ROTJ again. Right before the A-wing rams the Super Star destroyer, you see one blow up in the background while Akbar is saying they need to concentrate all fire on the SSD, and I didn't see any other ships or a planet for that matter blowing up along with it. Not to mention the Dreadnought in The Last Jedi blew up in formation with other Star destroyers and they were fine.
@@WebSpyder777 it sounds like an insult, but I hate it when star trek fans assume that everything in star wars has a hole which leads to a weakspot/un-armoured interior
Umm...no, and the evidence is within The Last Jedi. The firing arc of the First Order vessels is only about 2 miles (about 5 lengths of the Radis). The NX-01, which is nearly a hundred years older than the Vengeance could hit small, fast moving objects 100,000 miles away after dropping from warp (ST:ENT: The Augments). Also, ships in the Abrams verse move far faster than ships in the prime timeline. For reference, getting 12 light years (the distance to Vulcan) took about ten minutes in the first movie, not the week or so in ST: Enterprise. So two light years would be covered quickly, and I doubt Marcus would let them sit there for the several days they would need to repair the ship. As well, we also now know that Starfleet shields are far stronger than Imperial shields as evidence from both Rogue One and Last Jedi. The Imperial Shields allowed objects through them, mainly fighters and other solid objects (like Torpedoes) where as Federation shields do not. Also keep in mind, Federation crews are scientist and engineers. They would have scanned the Star Destroyer, repaired their ship, looked for weaknesses in the Destroyer, and when it came back, targeted the vulnerable shuttle bays and sub-light drive units. Hell, they could have just maneuvered behind them and stayed there. Also, in the Original series, the Federation ships used warp drive to maneuver during combat, meaning that small hyperspace jump would be negated quickly (quick note, the Picard Maneuver is basically the same thing). And from Star Trek Discovery and The Original Series, which takes place at the same time as Into Darkness, we know that Starfleet weapons are far more powerful, with one ship able to output enough firepower to devastate a planet. In Last Jedi, the First Order relied on that Dreadnought to destroy the Resistance base, and the blast wasn't even visible from space. And since we see just how many hits a Federation ship can take, that gives us an idea on how tough their ships really are. I think you guys tend to give these battles too quickly to the Imperials. Yes, their ships are heavily armed, but they aren't really all that capable.
It is because Star Wars fans still cling to the "200 Gigaton" Turbolaser claim, when the movies and cartoons debunk this. In Legends an ISD can glass a planet in a day where as in CANON we clearly see they are nowhere near that power level by Thrawn's bombardments. This is further backed by the more powerful dreadnought's bombardment, as the explosion the dreadnought's special guns caused was smaller then that of a nuclear explosion. I've done a lot of studying on the power levels of the Star Wars factions, mainly thanks to the Empire VS Covenant debates. :3
Raving Rando........ By that logic you can only say their most ST ships can't target things far away because they always attack each other within a few miles at most in the show. You cannot judge the SW universe and the power of the weapons from a show meant for kids. I mean, in that show, the turbolasers caused a smaller explosion that our modern day mortars. They also have trained soldiers getting defeated by having fruit thrown at them. So while the 200 Gigaton claim is false, the childrens cartoon also can't be used for an accurate representation.
Jame M...... I totally agree that the range in TLJ is utterly ridiculous. It just goes to show why that movie was garbage for me and around half the fanbase.
I believe that the call would have been for all available ships to converge on earth to defend it not hunt down one ship regardless of how big it was it threatened the security of earth defence first
Buckaroo Banzai started Yoyodine industries, (cannon builder of some ST ships & one of if not only private company in TNG.) had a secret survivalist spy group that could have survived the apocalypse. He traved dimensions and time, and had unnatural hate of Khan. Is Marcus BB , did Penny die because Kahn, with normal rivalry of 2 smartes - best people suddenly forced to work together. Ie is Marcus BB and Blue Blazers sec 31 lol and Carol Penny and BB's daughter...
Pfft... There's no evidence that turbolasers would do crap to Starfleet shields. Excited plasma? Star Trek has ships on the surface of stars regularly.
When you can give me a concrete number as to Star Fleet weaon yields and start talking quantity rather than quality, then you can talk smack. I'm not even denying that new Star wars ships are better than Abrams Starfleet ships, but until you get into yields and stop skating in no limits fallacies, shut up and Gene Rottenberrys tomb stone.
There’s tons of data on weapons yields as well as what Trek ships can/have had thrown at them and survived. In The Doomsday Machine, the “Doomsday Machine” hits with the power of a Death Star shot each time. The old constitution class Enterprise takes SEVERAL hits before losing shields and takes a few more without shields before having to pull away and STILL doesn’t show ANY hull damage. In the same episode, the Constellation had survived even more hits from the Doomsday Machine and had suffered severe hull damage but was still basically functional. As early as the pilot, we’re told that one shot from a shipboard phaser is enough to destroy an entire continent. Star Wars vessels don’t stand a chance.
Ok here is talking smack for you.... First: Star Trek basic Copy Right " Anti- Matter weapons." Second: On screen Cannon , Star Trek ships impluse speed for their warship move at 1/4th of light speed. In the RPG FASA books star ships combat speed is 1/4th of c. Star Wars RPG states their ship take 30mins to travel from a planet to it's nearest moon. ST can do that within 7sec. Star Wars says nothing about their ship speed in space on film. Other than it takes a few mintues for a ship to clear a planet's gravity well before they can jump to hyper space. Star Trek fasers move about the v=c. Long story short a speck of cigarette ash of iron dust measuring 1/4th of a sq mm. weight of 8,0000 of a milligram hits with the force of 6 ton of tnt.= 3megawatts/ jouls of energy per sq/ cm. Due to the mass area of the faser emitter they are dropping 24 tons or 12 mw/ sq inch area. Sorry but this is way more energy used to kill a 60 ton tank. Third: Do way with faster than light and anti- matter weapons. And just stick with what the Earth already has. Star Wars fighter craft carries missiles about a meter length which would have a 100lb Swan hyrogen nuke with a gross yeid of 5kilotons or a 1kiloton impact surface hit.= 500 megawatts/jouel. ." yes my spelling sucks," Star Trek II & TNG photon torpedo are little over 2m in length and can hold a full grown adult male or a 300lb W80 150 kiloton nuke warhead. Star Trek missiles 30x more powerful than Star Wars. This is by today's energy standers.
They’d be useless and would be melted by the vengeance’s phasers. Phasers are capable of functioning as point defense as shown in TNG when the Enterprise D destroys about 15 shuttlecraft/fighters in about a second.
Vengeance would win in my opinion because if it beamed aboard armed torpedoes, all scattered on vital areas throughout the ship, (shields, engines, bridge, life support, etc.) it would disable and eventually destroy the Star Destroyer. Side note: Vengence can scan and figure out where the Destroyer's vital areas are, and it can do what McCoy and Spock did to Khan. They beamed over armed torpedoes and they detonated inside the Vengeance. And c'mon, E.S.D. is always surrounded by dozens of ships.
The problem with a broadside is that the thing you're trying to shoot has to be at your side. And a Star Fleet vessel is ridiculously more maneuverable than any SD. Plus with their sensors they would have seen that danger almost immediately and avoid it easily.
"Captain, they are now locking lasers on us." "Lasers!?" "Yes, sir." "Lasers can't even penetrate our navigation shields. Don't they know that?" "Regulations do call for yellow alert." "Hmm, a very old regulation. Well, make it so Number One. And, reduce speed... drop main shields, as well." "May I ask why, sir?" "In case we decide to surrender to them, Number One... "
I was gonna say that Starfleet has the same micro jump maneuver with warp. Also I think that the impulse speed and maneuverability would be more of an advantage. not only that but I don't know how powerful the deflector array is but I do know it can deflect meteors and things with constant velocity so I don't know how molten plasma would do against that.
I like both Star Wars and Star Trek- don't 'favor' one over the other. However, this video is absolutely ridiculous, for many reasons. First, your assuming the Federation tech is way less powerful than what it is. 2nd, your science is way off. and 3rd? The Resurgent wouldn't even make it past the battle with an Excelsior or Constitution class star ship. 1st- Federation tech. Weapons: One Star Trek ship in TOS can obliterate an entire civilization/planet surface (General order 24). "This is the commander of the USS Enterprise. All cities and installations on Eminiar 7 have been located, identified, and fed into our fire control system. In 1 hour and 45 minutes, the entire inhabited surface of your planet will be destroyed. You have that long to surrender your hostages." --TOS "A Taste of Armageddon". Ok- think of the difference. ONE TOS ship... and that's OLD Constitution class trek tech with phasers, 2 fore and 2 aft torpedo launchers, . Now lets look at the Resurgent... 1500 turbo lasers for 'planetary bombardment'. Could the Resurgent devastate an entire planet? Perhaps, but it's going to take 1500 turbo lasers to do as much damage as a Star Trek TOS Class 1 Heavy Cruiser? lol. Shields. Lasers can't get past the Navigational screens (Deflector Dish) of Star Trek ships. Lets say for the sake of argument a 'turbo' laser can (Ionized plasma hybrid? Okay). Good luck penetrating even OLD school TOS shields- A Constitution-class starship's shields could take the equivalent of ninety photon torpedoes at once. They could do so a total of five times before shattering completely. (TOS: "The Changeling"). So far, a mothballed TOS museum ship can take out that Star Destroyer.... shall we move on? Science: Speed and mass. Star Trek ships can fight at warp speed. Even Photon torpedoes can travel at warp speeds. Unless a star wars ship is making a hyperspace jump, its traveling at slow, sub light speeds. Think of it this way- the battle would be over before the Star Destroyer would know where the incoming fire was coming from. To the star trek ship, the Star Destroyer would appear to be 'standing still'. To the Star Destroyer? They would not even be able to see, detect, track or know where the Star Trek ship is... it's traveling at FTL (so are its weapons). Here is what a battle between a FTL ship and a Sub light ship with SHITTY sensors would look like: The bridge conversation on the Star Destroyer would go something like this: "Open fire on that ship!" "Sir, Its gone!" "Did we destroy it?" "I don't think so commander, our Turbo laser fire was half way to the ship when it disappeared, and there is no debris field" "What? Did they jump to hyperspace?" "No sir... one moment they were there, the next there was a light flash and they disappeared" "Sir, we are being hailed" "By the planet? It's about time they considered terms of surrender to the Empire!" "NO sir, it's from the ship- but we can't pinpoint the location of the transmission... according to our instruments, the signal is very distorted, but in roughly a circular pattern traveling faster than light... and it's circling our location." "Impossible!" "Sir, the transmission... they are identifying their ship as the USS Enterprise... they have scanned us... and say that if we don't immediately break orbit from 'Earth' that we will be fired upon. They are also demanding that we power down all weapons and shields... and prepare to have a boarding party 'beamed'(?) aboard and then we will be escorted to the 4th planet of the solar system. Failure to comply in 5 minutes(?) will result in our immediate destruction." "Insolent curs! How DARE they! Open fire on that ship!, And launch ALL Tie fighters". "Sir, we still can't FIND it!" "Well, perhaps they have some sort of cloaking technology... lets make them come out of hiding! Open fire on the planet. Target one of their smaller cities... we don't want to damage too much of the emperors future property after all, but we do want to let them know that such arrogance will not be left unpunished! And tell all gun crews to be prepared to reacquire the... Enterprise?... for destruction once the cowards stops hiding." "Gun crews locking on to a city on the largest continent.... SIR! We're taking fire!" "Where!?! Location, speed, direction and trajectory!" "It's coming from EVERYWHERE sir!" "What do you mean everywhere!?!" "Sir, gun crews can only see beam weapons flashing out of empty space along with... My god sir! They are using anti-matter weapons! Our shields are weakening... but when we redirect more power to a critical area they are retargeting the weakest shield. Our shields won't hold much longer! Commander! Our gun crews can't see any 'ship' that is firing on us! They have nothing to target! Sir, Our fighters are being disintegrated... and they report nothing to target as well!" "I want fire on that damned ship! FIND IT!" "Sir, the Enterprise is hailing us again... it's captain is saying that while he can keep this up 'all day long' , his 'science officer(?)' has indicated to him that we have a 97.6% probability of certain destruction in 23.67 seconds if we don't cease hostilities immediately... commander... his tone is 'amused'. So you know what? I don't care if that star destroyer has 30,000 turbo lasers with 5 trillion giga watts of power each. It can't hit what it can't see or track. To think that a star ship is going to 'sit still' when it comes under fire is naïve. FEDERATION SHIPS CAN FIGHT AT WARP SPEEDS. To the Empire, there is no such thing. Only space, speed of light, and hyperspace. And you can't have it both ways. Either it's a laser firing at light speed (which wont pass though navigational screens on a star trek ships), or its a plasma/projectile which of course means its traveling at sub light speeds. Constitution class ships fight at least at 0.85c. (when not fighting at warp speed).A turbo laser goes at 0.00003c- those plasma cannons are SO slow to a federation ship that can fight even at sub light speeds at a MUCH higher speed!. Do you see now why the Enterprise in my scenario 'popped' out of existence- it went to warp- meaning you can't 'see' it anymore. To the empire it either disappeared or cloaked. The human eye can't detect anything faster than light- you 'see' it in the movies, but in real life there would be nothing but flashes of light,. Pretty bad when your gun crews are all humans... even if they are using computers to aid in fire control. At 'best' something would 'flash by' in the distance and be gone before a puny Empire brain could register a ghost of an image. The only thing they would 'see' is random flashes of light (incoming weapons trajectories) in whatever random flight pattern the Star Fleet ship is taking running literal circles around the Star Destroyer. Get behind the Star Destroyer? Lol, It's already warped around it firing torpedoes and phasers 12 or 13 times in 10 seconds at about 200,000 kilometers distance at Warp 1... which by the way isn't even max range. If anything, the enterprise would be moving at such higher respective speeds to the star destroyer that it risks going TOO fast around the Star Destroyer... and may have to make elliptical 'passes' at a leisurely Warp 1. Either way- no way that the empire could track it, let alone shoot at it. Lets say a turbo laser gets in the projected path of the Enterprise... at 0.00003c even using a phaser bank as a point defense system can easily handle it. Or better yet, its going so slow the Enterprise just goes around it. The reason you don't see such one sided battles in Star Trek universe is that every race is using similar- if not the same tech/speed/relative shields and weaponry. In battle they are all moving RELATIVE to one another- that just is NOT possible for a star destroyer to do at warp speed vs. sublight! So sorry Star wars fans. Thought I love the franchise, there isn't even a discussion to get into. No scenario could see the destroyer coming out on top. The tech in the Star Wars universes is just too primitive (with the exception of hyper space- but even jump calculations take time, remember "It's not like dusting crops back home"). One jump to light speed and it's game over. Speculation over. No chance- you can't fight what you cant hit or see. And your own firepower is Waaaaayyyyy to slow to arrive on target! It would be like firing a BB gun at an F16. You cant get the speed, velocity or mass on target, even if the F16 has to 'slow down' to hit you back, your still going to loose. So argue all you want about weapons, power, shields, yields, mass, size, fighter, on and on... in the final analysis- the Destroyer can't even see what is killing it.
Thank you. It is a very amusing scenario to muse over, but it should not take one much musing to realise this outcome. This video really should have been a comparison between ship technology in the respective universes rather than an attempt to match two wildly different levels of technology against each other. The fans debate and argue over the Months since this video was posted, but few people bother to compare actual stats from the lore such as you did. I think people forget it's not a competition about which lore is 'better'. Stating the fact that any Star Wars universe vessel is no match for a vessel from the Star Trek universe is not denigrating Star Wars. It's just a silly match up. A good comparison would be if I got upset because someone pointed out Aragorn from Lord Of The Rings would be defeated in a fist fight with Darth Vader. No sh** sherlock..... He would be disintegrated immediately, just like that Star Destroyer.
I know it has been awhile since you made this posting, but could you read this over as a audio clip would be great to hear. If you know anyone who could do a better job at it with sound effects like a trash can slamming up the outside wall of a garage would also be great.
The Vengeance engages in a series of high warp strafing runs firing on the Star Destroyer at FTL speeds, never exiting warp until outside their enemies weapons range. The Vengeance is never even SEEN by the SW ship, and easily destroys the enemy vessel without taking a single hit.
First, and interesting problem, we've seen NO sign of super long range sensors on star destroyers or any star wars ships... A star destroyer can't scan a planetary system 5 light years out. So they sensors wouldn't SEE ships at warp travel. On the flip side, The Federation DOES have experience with hyperspace. They just don't use it because of the amount of deadly radiation it generates. It DOES however create a subspace pressure wave and Nuclear signal that CAN be detected, tracked, and plotted. Now luckly this is only "TOS" level of tech. Voyager Era and Post Voyager, weapons become well... a single torpedo could destroy a moon. And starships get the ability to use transwarp conduits... and travel across the galaxy in hours.
After the Star Destroyer won by using a micro-jump, the Star Trek lawyers would crush the First Order for violating their copyright on the Picard Maneuver.
Felix Automaton they are both made by jj Abrams so that won’t work
@@@hong1202 r/wooosh
@@hong1202 Bruh. If you think the Picard maneuver is from Abrams than youre really missing out on star trek. I never watched any of the star trek series until the lockdown and now ive binge watched Next Generation, Voyager, part of Deep Space Nine (but honestly its bored me to death) and now I'm at Enterprise. You really should at least watch Next Generation so you know what youre talking about when it comes to Picard
Bobby Ray Victory deep space nine gets a lot better about halfway thru IMO, it just took a little while to get the back rolling, and it doesn’t have as much of the “ flavor of the week” style of the other series,at least not int the same way.
Your forgetting the first order is owned by Disney
The First Order messes up the micro jump and ends up pulling a Holdo maneuver
Most likely
At over double the size of the vengeance, the resurgent star destroyer would be almost completely fine
Lol
@@clawedleopard6630 Eh maybe
Task failed successfully
y'all forgot something important. Phaser engagement range is much larger than turbo laser engagement range. the Enterprise itself can target a pinpoint spot on a planet from high orbit. the Vengeance can just stay outside of effective range for the Resurgent class and just ignore the low yield turbolasers that do impact its shield.
But, first order technology is far advanced then uss vengeance, i think even tough uss vengeance range is larger but do you think they can penetrate
Me - Why wouldnt the Finallizer just deploy ties?
also me- "ARE WE BLIND??? DEPLOY THE GARRISON!!!"
Ah. lol.
Idk about star trek starfigejr defences but the tie fighter and bombers would be able to disable the engines and in TLJ you can see how they did a lot of damage to the resistance ship, if the got Kylo it's game over .
you, much like rian johnson, forgot to have the 1st order utilize their tie fighter squadrons.
*ARE WE BLIND!!?! DEPLOY THE GARRISON!!!*
The reason why the first order didn’t use tie fighters against the resistance fleet was because the resistance was too far away for the star destroyers to provide fire support
In star trek the phasers are just to accurate the vengeance would just one shot one kill them in a few minutes... Maybe good idea for a distraction but nothing the vengeance can't easily handle :)
@@Mogo-tb3yi the could shoot sensors
@@yeetyeet5079 i think it's unlikely the vengeance would put them out of the fight long before they could fire because of the range difference
So, you'd have the Finalizer defeat the USS Vengeance.......by performing the Picard Maneuver?
Yes
no by using the Marg Sabl manueuver
@@tdkom no by its the micro jump
Picard hasn't been born yet!!!!!
they always give the win the Star Wars, when the technology discrepancy demands Trek vessels win. the only advantage Wars has is hyperdrive they literally jump into an alternate dimension to travel further distances faster at slower speeds. they always seem to forget a lone Star Destroyer of any class can not kill a planet alone...and a lone Constitution Class from the Prime Universe (technologically inferior to the Kelvin timeline counterpart especially in terms of tactical systems) can kill a whole world. you wouldn't need the Kelvin timeline Vengeance, TOS Enterprise, with Kirk and crew can kill anything the Empire and the First Order had. to include Star Destroyers of all classes, Death Stars and Starkiller Base. as for the hyperdrive advantage hyperdrive only works once you escape gravity wells unlike warp, so if say Starfleet ever developed it themselves...they would then be faster.
As I recall, the Picard Maneuver is basically a microjump.
Came to the comments to see if anybody else noticed
Of course, that was in a different timeline and at a later date.
@@SquireDAF same here; commented on it before I saw Alex's post.
starships have been known to make several micro jumps to make it look like 1 ship are many ships...they wouldn't know where to shoot
A microjump with the advantage of confusing sublight sensors.
Wow, do you have it wrong. The Admiral Marcus would not beam troops onto the Star Destroyer, he would beam the Storm Troopers and crew off of the ship into space.
He would need the locations of every single crew member and Storm trooper to do that. There is no way he would have that.
@@karbazagarsonofzadnaon8238 It's not impossible, but I believe Admiral Marcus would use the transport on high powered Photonic Torpedoes and send it to their bridge, that would have finished them off by now.
@@nomenomeha30anosatras33 good luck doing it to thousands of people through armor
@@karbazagarsonofzadnaon8238 star fleet can do a quick scan of a planet snd know all life on it.
@@karbazagarsonofzadnaon8238 life sign scanners would make that effortless
Thank you for saying that the weapons in SW fire plasma, and are not lasers.
2
They should call them plasma cannons then.
The hyperdrive would be completely negated by the fact that they’re completely outside of their galaxy and don’t have access to maps.
Meanwhile, Starfleet ships can ALL jump to warp, plot a circular course around a target and light it up because... you can totally fire while at warp.
I mean they still could do it, it would just be a random guess on where they end up.
Hyperdrive wasn't depend on the map and could work completely blindly
The map itself only provide the safest route for the hyperspace since hyperspace jump greatly affect by how clear gravitational area around the predicted route
You ever heard of emergency hyperspace jumps good sir? Also navicomputers calculate the safest route through hyperspace it doesnt need existing access to maps it just makes the time required to calculate a jump quicker.
Thank you! (On the part about fighting at warp.) A Star Trek vessel can fight and maneuver at FTL speeds. A SW ship wouldn't even SEE the enemy they would just be hit. There is no defense the SW vessel could mount to defend against that. Their only choice would be to flee.
@@joshuahogan3475 star wars ships are known for being good trackers.
Lmao this is about the geekiest thing I've watched in months
You must have never watched Jensaarai1 or EvanNova95.
You dont watch this channel too often right? xD
nick oakley your comment says 11 hours ago, but the vid is an hour old!
I got the patreon alert yesterday afternoon and watched it then
nick oakley I agree and by the way #HumanityFirst
There's the cheap trick of beaming torpedoes. Admiral Marcus wouldn't bother beaming over a security detail with a bomb to blow up their bridge, he'd just beam photon torpedoes (probably set to the highest yield) to various sections of the ship. Photon torpedoes against shields and hull armor in space might not be too spectacular but in the air filled ship environment, the chain reaction of secondary explosions would be devastating.
MacTX thing is, by the time they figure out the Wohllebens shield refreshing thing, it might be too late
The assumption would be that they would find it early on as beaming through the shield was proposed pretty early on by Ben.
We don't know if the shields on the star destroyer work like the ones on starkiller base. There might be no way to beam people aboard, we just don't know. But I do think the Finalizer's TIE fighters are being forgotten and we know for sure that the TIEs could at the _very_ least distract the weapons of the Vengeance, if not do some damage through bombing and strafing runs.
Colin Thorneycroft But the Vengeance can launch assualt drones which are faster and more maneuverable than the TIE's. They carry proton torpedoes and once they run out of them, the drones will ram the target ship
Surok The Vulcan well didn’t know bout that
Forgetting that Star Trek does have Transworp tech and also slipstream drives; while they are not as fast as hyperdrives they can still cover vast differences. Star Wars always relied upon shier firepower which clearly didn't do them justice in all of the battles they lost. Tactical maneuvers could easily beat any slow moving star destroyer.
Resurgent star destroyers in straight lines are as fast as tie fighters which are known for being fast
That’s not even the half of it, Star Wars Shields also work differently to Star Trek Shields and are A lot weaker due to the power requirements used for both types of Star Wars Shields,
And yeah there are 2 Types of Star Wars Shields, Energy Shields, and Kinetic Shields, Energy Shields Stop Energy Blasts like Turbolasers, While Kinetic Shields Stop Physical Objects such as Torpedoes and Missiles.
However while you can Fire through Energy Shields in Star Wars, you Cannot Fire or Launch Craft while the Kinetic Shields are up and the Kinetic Shields must have time to recharge after being lowered in order to be raised again. (You want an example of that, look up the Clone Wars Episode “Cat & Mouse”.)
Meanwhile Star Trek’s Deflector Shields are a Hybridization of the Two able to Shrug off Energy and Physical Attacks, and can last longer in a fight too considering they don’t use much power.
@@yeetyeet5079 also, sorry to burst your bubble, But Star Trek Ships are faster, (At Sub-Light, Star Wars Ships are faster at FTL Speeds but their Hyperdrive is more Dangerous than the Warp Drive Navigation-wise.)
Full Impulse Speeds (Star Trek’s Sub-light) is rated as a Max Speed of Warp 0.99 (or 99% Speed of Light).
And we could literally build the Impulse Engines used in Star Trek, as they’re just a couple of Fusion Reactors that Accelerate Super-Heated Deuterium out their back.
@@Kreachie doesn’t really matter if it would take years for a warp drive to cross the galaxy but low level hyperdrives can do it in months so there would be less time for something to go wrong
@@Kreachie energy and physical shields are both components of a deflector shield
Because I loathe the new cannon, let's go Vengeance!
On the Vengeance, I would utilize the transwarp transporter technology to beam a few antimatter warheads to key points instead of wasting crew. I would have also flooded the area with tachyons to weaken the shields of the Resurgence.
The reason the Star destroyers are wedge-shaped is so they can focus all their weapons on one target all at once.
Magnus Høier Holck In front of them, but a starship would avoid that area
sure, but i'm just saying that that's the point.
hehe accidental pun
Magnus officers of the uss vegeance are not dumb
big deal no problem for a starfleet ship. while the star destroyer is travelling at 2x times the speed of light any star fleet ship would have killed it a thousand times before it could have detected a threat since warp 9,95 = 985.074 times the speed of light
And wide open to attack from behind
Now how about something more civilized, say the U.S.S Voyager vs 3 Venator class Star Destroyers.
The Astro Gamer I don't watch Star Trek but that's over 1200 starfighters that USS Voyager has to deal with.
Jaylyn Abrams
True. And that will be a pain if only from shear numbers. However the voyager has one advantage. We have seen in star trek that unless their sensors are damaged they can hit small fast moving targets almost all the time. With the exception of torpedoes but i dont know enough about the way they are protected to comment on that.
photon torpedoes are made of photons...they have no mass, they consist only of energy...an a very small targeting device
Photon torpedoes uses a matter and anti-matter warhead in a casing that can move at low worp(depending on if it is fired while the ship is at warp) making it harder to hit.
valor0dragoon sry, my bad
What about starfighters??
Andrea Bonizzi accuracy in Star Trek pretty much nullifies fighters.
Fighters are useless in the Star Trek Universe against starfleet ships.
The Resurgence would be better off to keep the fighters on board. Don't launch them. Starfleet point defense vs fighters is 100% accurate. That's why you never see fighters on Star Trek. The few times we did see them, entire attack groups were destroyed in less than a second.
Timothy Lane
That isn’t quite right...
Remember the marquis raiders, at the battle of cardassia?
Thy are pretty much star fighters.
Andrea Bonizzi sitting ducks
Why would they beam men over? Beam torpedoes, like in Into Darkness..
6:02 that kind makes sense on Jjs part sense turbo laser is plasma which is hot and it cool in space
May the 4th be with you. I am currently watching a Star Wars marathon and the empire strikes back is on. I was just wondering, how did Luke fit all that equipment he brought to Dagoba in his X-Wing???? May the Force be with you
Alberto Cubillas Theres a cargo compartment under the nose.
Victor H under the knees is a quite large and advanced sensor array. I remember the t65 does have a cargo compartment but it is somewhere else I just don’t remember where.
It has a big ass trunk.
Actually in Star Trek Cannon many times in combat ships have matched the shield frequency of other ships which allowed their phasers to completely bypass shields until the other ship re-modulates their shields.
The Vengeance doesn’t need to do much other than keep pounding away at the Star Destroyers turbo lasers.
Actually, this whould not function: the turbolaser is a gun that fires projectiles of overheated plasma, not phasers or ion projectiles, but the vengeance would be able to scape tractor beams
Stardestroyer Capitain How does that affect the Vengeance and it’s ability to go through the Star Destroyers Shields?
Because star wars shields dont oscillate like star trek shields.
Dj Cuevas but they have a refresh frequency, that’s cannon. And the Vengeance can fire phasers at warp speed.
Which makes no difference because their not fighting at warp. Not that im saying your wrong but ive never heard of star wars shields do that.
Why just the one bomb, why not beam multiple bombs onto the Star Destroyer at various critical areas? The engine room alone would be glowing on the sensors just from the sheer energy signature.
Randy Bentley You managed to bust this whole 15 minutes long discussion. If we assume, that ST can teleport bombs trough SW shields, there's nothing that can stop them from just teleporting nukes to engine rooms of SW ships and destroying them one-shot.
They mention the rest of the ship is probably too well armored for the transporters to penetrate.
The bridge by contrast is relatively exposed.
And that's just using regular transporters. If you used the Inverter from the TNG episode The High Ground, then you wouldn't even have to worry about the ship's shields at all, just dimensional shift over a couple of high yield tricobalt bombs and call it a day. The theory for the inverter was put forth in the 23rd century and with Section 31 being the way that it is you gotta know they'd have their own version of D.A.R.P.A. to make some pretty crazy stuff for any and all contingencies.
If it were designed like a conventional SD then you might have a point, but that split level area that is big enough to fly a starfighter through opens up a plethora of locations to beam bombs too.
Or the other way around. Beam out any lifeform on the bridge and dump them in outer space. Or start beaming away huge chunks of he hull. Preferably pieces of the bridge. Or pieces of essential technology, like computers, or parts of the hyperdrive. It will probably cripple the Finalizer in no time.
The transporter is clearly Starfleets biggest advantage over the first order. They just need to use it smart.
I would think he would target the engines on the star destoyer first and keep to the rear of it as there precious little fire power in that area
The fact that it can shot stuffs in warp is amazing
That fact it would've missed because light speed exists is there to tho.
I dunno about the final verdict of this one... I think Admiral Marcus would use the Vengeance's superior maneuverability to get behind the Finalizer and blast its engines with phaser and photon torpedo volleys.
Getting behind a ship is realistically impossible and only ever happens when someone tries to flee. Think about how far you have to travel trying to circle around someone well staying out of range compared to how far you have to travel to turn around. trying this would just maneuver them into a broadside battle that would be very bad. However the first order is incompetence enough that Marcus would probably still win
Marcus: wait time out.
Hux: what do you mean time out. there are no time outs in war, I'm not going to wait for you (continues for several miutes).
Marcus: ok I'm ready now time in.
Hux what how did I not see that coming this is like that thing with poe all over agian.
GET BEHIND THE SHIP
Now try to penetrate the shields with your litlle small phasers.....
nukes are two weak, a single turbolaser is as powerful as a small tactical nuke, proton torpedoes can be much more powerful then a nuke and in star trek photon torpedoes are stronger then nukes too.
Shields also block beaming, that's why they had to do the weird space jump from Into Darkness
It seems like they completely forgot the amount of TIE fighters the Finalizer has that it would probably launch to take out the engines. If each wing of TIEs is 72 that's a good 144 ships which I would imagine could eventually damage the Vengeance's shields enough to break its propulsion and let the Finalizer get in close and pound it with all its guns
Wait, i thought microjumps can only be done if they have an interdictor class. Otherwise, that entire tactic of using the interdictor to pull thrawns own ships into range of the rebels wouldn't make sense
Nanomachines Son! Anakin used a Micro jump in TCW
Its true, Trawn uses interdicords to pull them out. I think they just forgot about that small detail.
Thrawn used an interdictor or the gravity well created by a moon or planet, like Earth or the Moon
You are right just finish reading the books. Also you need a coup ship there with the interdictor and it then pull in the rest of the fleet in at weak points.
If I remember correctly, while the interdictor ships help, after getting enough experience with the technique, Thrawn's men got their hyperspace calculations down so well they could do so without the interdictor. Anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
These star trek vs star wars debates were a bit more fun before the universes got JJ'ed
I agree they are both getting closer to the feel in pacific rim. Particulary star trek is unrecognizable comparing the reboot with the original series.
That's because JJ ruined both universe.
Jean-Luc Martel jar jar fan, huh?
Outcast115 yeah Darth binks is the best
oh ya i really love him to death. by force choking.
You guys forgot a couple key features of the Vengeance. First it has multidimensional radar so it could easily track a ship in hyperspace. You also forgot about the kamikaze torpedo drones the Vengeance has. I think it would easily follow the star destroyer and finish it off before it could do any repair
The Vengeance is a beast! I love that ship in STO.
Star Trek's best bet is to jump behind the Star Wars ship, into its blind spot and torpedo its engines. (Scotty manually controlled a jump into Titan's atmospere, within a few dozen kilometers of his target. The computers on the Vengence could probably do better.)
And starwars will micro jump again
If you can get through the shields which have proven to be much stronger, just remember that the enterprise rammed through 60-70% shielding on the cymitar while star destroyers have rammed smaller ships with no damage.
This, stay behind them. Star destroyers are basically a ship of the line from sailing ships.
Actually Sulu piloted it into titan... sorry
Everybody forgets about the star destroyer power reactor, which is mounted on the ventral side and is designed to be ejected in a malfunction emergency. How long would it take for Starfleet sensors to locate the reactor in such an exposed location. A volley or two of photon torpedoes with a simultaneous full power phaser beam hitting the reactor housing would either disable it and eliminate their power for shields and weapons and hyper-drive or overload it and cause an explosive runaway power reaction.
Combined with superior maneuverability, I would give the Vengeance five minutes at the most before the the star destroyer is crippled or goes boom.
What if earth is in the unknown regions
CrabbierBull 391 that thing has go around in my mind for some time
Yeah we need the Earth in Star Wars version!
There is an entire series about that topic on youtube actually. Boofire191 has made the serious. Just look him up and you will find some interesting things. ^^
I know!
Daniel Wolfgang thanks
Please do something like Klingon Empire vs Separatist Alliance or Romulan Star Empire vs the Republic during the clone wars.
Love this Vid, just watched it. ESD or Earth Spacedock may not have had its 40 wartime phasers emitters installed during the time period you reference for this, but ESD shields were the most powerful in the Federation as the prime outpost for the Sol system, and ESD always has a home fleet dock. The Resurgent could have fired at ESD for a 100 years and never weaken a single shield facing.
also star trek has established that plasma based weapons are much weaker and their shields are able to block most plasma weapons
You forget that you are saying they would send the security of a starship onto a warship. The security guard and the phaser pistol are meant for unarmed intruders as well as for exploring planets. All purpose built warships in the federation have a marine unit and or a maco unit detached to it for planetary fall and quick military campaigns equipped with a powerful phaser rifle, plasma granades and since the USS vengeance a section 31 warship that was meant to retaliate against the Klingons if war broke out would carry more deadly armements such as a disruptor rifle.
The ships in star trek are far more maneuverable than you give credit.
All ships, even shuttle craft, can literally run circles around all turbo laser plasma bolts. They'd never get hit. Constitution class ships fight at least at 0.85c. A turbo laser goes at 0.00003c at most because it is plasma. By canon, star wars ships do not go even close to that fast.
You also ignore planetary defenses and make the space station defenseless. In this timeline, an example of a space station would be Yorktown Base. You see it in Beyond Darkness. It had millions of people. One of its arms was 17.5 miles long. It had thousands of defensive satellites and turrets. It was on the edge of chartered space. I think they would have better to defend the sol system and earth with billions. 1 capital ship would be no match for a station without specialized tactical knowledge.
exactly. they are sw fans
voyager went the fastest at warp 9.995 at a speed of 998.500749875 times the speed of light. they went so fast the crew devolved :)
Q5Grafx We DONT talk about that
that's what batteries are for. 1500 TL provides fire superiority, while a 725m long battlecruiser pretends to be a 6m long snub nose fighter.
you can flit about all you want a stable firing platform, heavy shields and superior firepower ftw. again, 725m long ship doing a circle around the vengeance means all 1500 tls and torps get to shoot at it. The JJ Enterprise goes down like a $50 dollar hooker.
Aegis030 I mean there’s that or it could just sit behind it and legit nuke its ass with antimatter warheads aka photon torpedoes.
I’m no expert in thermodynamics but last I checked you can’t shoot through your own ship.
Also while I’m on it sure there’s 1,500 turbo lasers all being aimed by person shooting at a ship that moves so much faster than the plasma shots at such a distance I mean good luck leading those shots vs the vengeance’s computer controlled targeting and firing which could potentially be timed to shoot through they shield refresh. Also transporters plus photon torpedoes equals easy way past shields.
Great Debate indeed.
The Vengeance would have a hard time against that behemoth. However, Starfleet would have another 25 to 50 ships to assist in no time. After all this is Earth they are defending not some far flung outpost.
If there is one thing that Star Trek is known for, it is the inconsistent continuity. A Borg cube managed to destroy an entire fleet that was fully crewed and fully supplied, only for the Borg to get their asses kicked by a crew with no means to resupply and/or replace their losses despite having superior numbers. Voyager gets banged up, yet it is in tip top shape despite it being previously established that Voyager had no allies and/or the means to replace losses in both manpower and supplies. The Ferengi are built up to be the dreaded enemy of the Federation, a mysterious race notorious for devouring their business partners, only to act like over the top clowns during their first appearance and their first encounter with the human race being was a century before Kirk.
I think the reason they left those out is just so the two can have a fair fight. If the vengeance showed up and fought the entire first order, it would have been destroyed. I can understand why they left out the other ships.
I agree but with convenient timing this is possible, look at the first time the borg attacked in next gen like 14ish ships to defend earth because really poor timing. Also star fleet can converge everything they have because they don't know the limits of hyperdrive so the first order can't actually hit any planet they want but star fleet would assume they can. It would also be pretty consistent with st plots for this to happen then the enterprise shows up and against all odds uses vaguely explained tactics to single handedly destroy the first order saving earth because everyone else is too busy diening to other threats the enterprise will have to deal with in the next episode.
+Soccer kittens These types of matches are just talking about the ships, either side will use what they have, no support from other ships.
yeah, there should have been a huge skirmish out there
Correction: In the Kelvin Timeline the starships of the Federation developed a new kind of FTL drive. This is faster than the theoretical warp 10 and could cross the Galaxy at faster than light speed. This is mentioned in the specs of the Kelvin constitution class so assuming since the Vengeance is a secret super ship from section 31 they probably improved it compared to jjprise. Like if you see this so people know the corrections. Btw it also mentions that other powers like the Klingons and Romulans were afraid of the UFP’s new drive. Edit: just saw I said light speed... meant faster than light speed
Warp is faster than light as far as I know
Warp 10 is also effectively present in all places at all times so warp 10 is omnipresence so how you figure that out? And it isn't theoretical it's been achieved in voyager
@@azraelbatosi they fight at 0.85c or 85% of light and that's fighting not warp
@@xengen212
That's the new warp metric. TOS warp ratings were slower. Like a warp 9 ship TOS would be roughly the equivalent of a warp 6-7 ship TNG.
@@biggsydaboss3410 in a vacuum light is a constant that's how we can measure vast distances between stars etc there is no other metric 60 mph is 60 mph whether your in a starship or a submarine warp 1 in TOS is warp 1 on TNG speed is distance/time to change it you would need to change what a lightyear is OR how long it takes but as a lightyear (speed/time) is established to be constant(its in the name) the time can't be changed neither can the distance as Light in this context is constant therefore warp 5 in TOS is warp 5 in TNG anything other than this is just bad writing and shouldn't be taken into account, if your talking about warp15 etc from TOS it's established that warp 15 is actually warp 9.999999 warp 12 is 9.999
USS vengeance
Hands down
Also admiral markus would realise the engines on the rear of the finallizer and attack those causing hyperdrive to be useless
British ben vs American ben, who would win?
Btw “bunch of guys with guns” made me laugh more than i should have
CrabbierBull 391 wtf is American Ben?
Admiral Insane Aerospace see generation films
I like british ben so he would win :)
I think American Ben would win. American Ben is, well, American, so he has access to guns.
Andy B good argument but british ben could drown him in tea
IF the Vengance took out the hyperdrive then different story Starfleet wins! Because I don't see the first order surrendering as an option.
first order would never know it was at war the star fleet ships travel 500 times the speeds of any ship in star wars. even the old crappy ships from Enterprise travel 60x the speed of star wars ships a runabout could end a star destroyer before they knew it was there. In fact the only star trek ship a star wars ship could even possibly catch would be Zephram Cochrans warp ship
Just beam an armed torpedo instead of the away team and its done! :D
Mini-jumps. Thrawn and Picard had the same manuver. :)
Difference being that warp jumps are much more precise than hyperspace jumps. An extremely short hyperspace jump is extra-system while star trek vessels can do jumps within a few kilometers distance.
In Star Trek DS9: Trials and Tribulations, Captain Sisko successfully beamed members of Defiant's crew through a shield refresh gap and so beaming is a valid tactic. In the Star Trek universe, Photon torpedps have been beamed several times. Given this, all Vengence or even a smaller Excellsior class needs to do, is beam a few torpedos to key postioons, and the Federation wins.
A versus I'd be interested in seeing would be the Scimitar (Star Trek: Nemesis) versus the Eclipse-class Super Star Destroyer.
Enterprise-H spacedock made a video of scimitar vs a mass effect leviathan.
I know, it was a good video.
So you want to put it up against an almost 20km long ship with a super laser that cracks continents with a single shot? With thousands of turbo lasers and dozens of fighters and bombers
IT all depends if they were able to use the super weapon. I don't remember if they could use it while cloaked or not.
The vengeance has a cloaking device that would certainly change the outcome of the battle
May be a year and a half late, but I'd agree with a caveat or two.
If the vengeance's cloaking tech was simply photo-refractive I don't know how effective it would be against sensor detection. It would have to be able to mask the presence of the ship entirely (heat, mass, reflective surfaces and so on).
That only becomes an issue depending on how sophisticated the sensory equipment on the SD is though, which I don't think is ever explained in detail. Not in the movies at least, I'm sure there's "data" on it through some extra source.
@@thewretchedpleb7484
Star Wars sensors are always rated as being a lot less accurate than Star Trek sensors.
Think about SW IV A New Hope's trench run. Now compare it to a molecular scan by the TOS Enterprise.
@@biggsydaboss3410 hadn't thought of that, originally. Thanks for pointing it out.
The turbolasers are manned not automated...
@@thewretchedpleb7484 Star Trek Cloaking Tech usually masks a ship's energy signatures, depending on who built it. Romulan cloaks are the most advanced and complete shroud a ship. Just look at the Scimitar from ST: Nemesis for a perfect example.
If only he realized that he described the Picard Maneuver...
The Vengeance would beam quantum torpedoes into critical areas on the star destroyer, then move to a safe distance before detonation
0:59 Wait Hold on! that ship was built in minecraft?! Damn... that's some impressive work!
Just caught Allen's cameo on China Uncensored. Loved it.
I’d argue that Star Trek shields are stronger then star wars shields. Also earth has ground based defenses also there in federation territory especially the core so they will be jumping into heavy populated and well defended space.
Wait what about the Vengeance's deflector shields in tos deflector shields of ships like the Enterprise could withstand several direct hits from an antiproton beam powerful enough to completely destroy planets if the kelvin timeline deflector shields are just powerful as the one's in tos or stronger would the Star Destroyer's turbolasers even be able to take them out?
uh, you know an "anti- proton" beam is an (anti- matter) beam, right ?
Unless you have a " navigation deflector " to clear the atmosphere out of the way of the starships' beam canon, the antiproton beam will not make it to the planet's surface.
You ever seen a game of pool being played ? The "que ball" is the antiproton and the rest of the racked balls is stander matter.
Melfice Skye i think they just like sw more
@@Ben-ig3bf That's been the case since day 1, plus the Vengeance has more weapons that the guy never mentions not to mention it's way more maneuverable, it can go behind the other ship, destroy its engines, and shields and spamming photon torpedoes since it has multiple cannons on the saucer section, aim at the bridge, and boom, even with that many turbo lasers by that point they wouldn't be able to deal enough damage in time.
Star destroyers can melt a planet from a couple miles down. And that’s just it’s turbo lasers.
@@stuglife5514 TOS Federation star ships like the Enterprise have enough firepower to do that as well.
I feel like a major aspect that was overlooked in the video was the 2 FULL wings of 75 tie fighters carried standard in the Resurgent Class which would at the very least divert some focus off of the star destroyer. Not to mention that especially in the new movies, tie fighters are capable of causing some major damage to capital ships.
But, this Tiefihter didnt had shields. Maybe I am wrong about that. But couldnt the Startrek ship just beam everyone out of their tie fighters?
Actually the USS Vengeance is just a hair shy of 2 km. . . Someone did the calculations using the pixels when the Vengeance was going down over Star Fleet HQ.
Also, here is the issue. The Vengeance’s laser weapons cut straight through the shields of the Enterprise, and tore it to pieces. . .
Yeah. Not geek enough.
You guys don't know enough about trek to talk about trek seriously in comparison.
Ryan M. Dupée Trek sucks though. The info they give doesn't relate at all with the actions seen on screen.
Somebody touch mon Spaghetti ,
That is true with both though.
Ryan M. Dupée O yes certainly. But I assumed that it was so obvious in SW's case that it didn't even need mention. Remember that 200 gigaton laser quote?
Ryan M. Dupée Star Wars has become kind of boring over the last years.
The station is not disarmed. That's a myth. Their shields would deflect the turbo lasers plasma mass to minimize damage. Sensors would penetrate the Star Destroyer to determine complement, weakpoints, layout and energy sources. Excelsior class ship would be able to engage quite efficiently till the Dreadnought showed up. They also don't factor in impulse speeds are faster and more agile than star wars technology. Source data Klingon Academy and Star Fleet Academy simulator combat games which I had both. Since the sensors are superior they would see opportunities to not only beam but also to fire weapons to avoid Star Wars Shields. Not only that the photon Torpedo uses a subspace field to sustain speeds even at warp. The issue I have with the Hyperspace jump is it takes along time to calculate the jump plus they are in unfamiliar territory. Our asteroid belt then the Kepler belt would RIP the star destroyer apart. Time itself would hinder tactics useless.
fyi guys.. in case no one thought to mention it.. but Spacedock 01 is armed.... enough to fight DS9 to a standstill... otherwise love the video
it was not always armed in proper cannon it was unarmed most of the time it could be armed but it would take 2 weeks to get the defence systems online as they were stored on earth when not installed on the station due to the need for it to maintain the abillity to hold and repair a large number of starships it was only defended by a fleet of 12-15 runabouts and a small fighter wing its main defence was the nearby allied fleets of the member worlds like andor and the other nearby worlds also by the main shipyards at mars which if you were going to attack earth you would destroy them first
5:52 Look at Ben's face as he has an existential crisis, realising that since Turbolasers are projectile weapons the Borg couldn't actually adapt to them like he said in his borg vs empire video
Borg can most likely adapt tho, who said they can't?
Phasers are projectile weapons too.
If the galactic empire enters the star trek universe, they would need a bit of time to scan the galaxy and just hyperdrive to planets and bases, they have the industrial capability and manpower to overrun and control a galaxy. People act like star wars is technologically interior when in fact they are completely capabe and extremely advanced. They would both adapt to eachother technology and ultimately the empire would win just because it hat the manpower and resources to do that.
If you can transport a bomb to the bridge, you can transport a photon torpedo directly into the star destroyer's engines and cripple it's ability to move. Then you will stay out of range and carve the ship up like a nice turkey. There is no contest on who would win here. It's so easy.
Next: First Order vs the Federation
I highly doubt the first order winning.
The shields on Star Trek seem to be more powerful than Star Wars ships. In Star Wars they depend more on the mass of the ship to protect them.
*laughs in exploding console*
@The Archangel Hate to break it to you, but phasers are plasma based as well. They are nadion *particle* beams. If you can see it without being the target of it, it's plasma. And have you heard of auxiliary power? Trek ships have that. It's why a trek ship can dump its reactor and still maneuver and fight. Remember that moment in Nemesis where Geordi says that Shinzon knocked out their warpcore with his first shot and then they still went on to fight him rather than roll over and die? Yeah. The Wrath of Khan? Same thing. Death Star loses its reactor and it explodes.
dixievfd55 all the same, resurgent class shielding is designed for both energy and Kinetic weapons. Also, the resurgent has 2 reactors, the large bulb on the ventral side of most star destroyers are their main hypermatter annihilation reactor, placed there so it can be ejected into space in the event of a melt down, there’s also a secondary reactor that would provide enough power to allow the ship to jump to hyperspace and keep basic systems and defence systems online such as life support, engines, shielding and some basic weapons. So yeah, resurgent would still win.
dixievfd55 the Death Stars reactor was connected to many very large kyber crystals that amplify whatever power they take in by millions. Go watch the video called “Hera and Kanan destroy the imperial freighters & the kyber crystal to see one of those crystals explode. Both Death Stars had dozens of these crystals and hundreds of smaller ones (same size as the ones in a lightsaber)
@@Some_Random_Asshole but youre just looking at phasers. If you count in photon torpedoes wich corecct me if im wrong use antimatter to get their explosive power, which by itself is more than i think the shields of the star destroyer could handle. Also after a scan, they would have found the reactors and telportet some nice bobs near them. Kaboom
I think they would transport a torpedo on their bridge, and in their main engine room. Kaboom
Everybody forgets about the star destroyer power reactor, which is mounted on the ventral side and is designed to be ejected in a malfunction emergency. How long would it take for Starfleet sensors to locate the reactor in such an exposed location. A volley or two of photon torpedoes with a simultaneous full power phaser beam hitting the reactor housing would either disable it and eliminate their power for shields and weapons and hyper-drive or overload it and cause an explosive runaway power reaction.
Combined with superior maneuverability, I would give the Vengeance five minutes at the most before the the star destroyer is crippled or goes boom.
Maybe I missed it in the moment I was typing up something, but why weren't the Ties deployed? They'd distract at least the Vengeance, and be much more manoeuverable than either capital ship.
Also, is it standard practice to have massive bombs lying around on Star fleet ships? I can understand cannibalizing a torpedo warhead, but it seems a strange procedure full of curious logic to have just lots of set-piece large/powerful charges that are not part of the ships standard weaponry ammo loadout
boffinboy100 accuracy in star trek nullifies fighters.
Diana Vespid Starwars crew wouldn't know that lol
Besides, modern SAMs have rated hit probabilities in excess of 0.95 - We still have air forces...
boffinboy100 compare durability feats of the tie fighters to the star trek weaponry
They will not make a difference
They are hitting a fighter wth ship to ship weaponry
Actually there are smaller fighter craft in a DS9 episode (Sacrifice of Angels) used by Starfleet. However we could assume that they probably have decent shielding. The weaker-shielded TIEs would probably be one-shot by Vengeance phasers.
Star Trek torpedoes move at light speed so they will pass threw the imperial shields as if the ship had no shields. Just like what happened to the death star. Just saying.
No. Star Trek torpedoes move at Warp. And pass through, not threw.
Imperial tie fighter vs the thunderbolt starfury from Babylon 5.
Barry Bend Although I think the Starfury wins easily! Go with one of the advanced Tie Fighters like the Tri Fighter.
this is a squadron battle so five starfuries vs 12 tie fighters and both don't have shields.
Barry Bend BETTER! But I'd still give the edge to Starfuries INSANELY maneuverable. No shields but quite a bit armored if I remember correctly.
both have armor that is basically tissue paper when energy weapons are involved.
Barry Bend Tie fighter definitely but been a long time since I last saw Babylon 5, I'd have to research it. But I'd definitely LOVE this scenario.
I need more videos like this, in this format
Vengeance would beam 2 or three photon torpedoes into the Star Destroyers critical areas and detonate. End of destroyer in a single move.
8:11 Wouldnt it be better to use transporter code 14 (which essentially means to blow something up with the transporter) to destroy an important part in the reactor or something.
Just beam in 1 torpedo right next to the reactor.
BOOM
You forget that a in Legends at least, a Star Destroyer's reactor blowing up would also blow up a planet next to it. This is why, in movies, the Star Destroyers don't really Blow Up, but instead just fall apart as the reactor shuts down from failing. But then, the same happens with Star Trek Warp Cores, considering there's anti-matter in there.
HunterSteel29 um, what!?! Watch ROTJ again. Right before the A-wing rams the Super Star destroyer, you see one blow up in the background while Akbar is saying they need to concentrate all fire on the SSD, and I didn't see any other ships or a planet for that matter blowing up along with it. Not to mention the Dreadnought in The Last Jedi blew up in formation with other Star destroyers and they were fine.
Beaming photon torpedoes in the Star Destroyer's engine room (near to hypermatter reactor), and blow up. Star Destroyer is destroyed.
You obviously dont know how star destroyers work or even look like
@@ilikepigeons6101 And you obviously don't know what an antimatter explosion would do on the unarmored interior of a ship... no matter how big it is.
And what about the shields
@@WebSpyder777 it sounds like an insult, but I hate it when star trek fans assume that everything in star wars has a hole which leads to a weakspot/un-armoured interior
@@ilikepigeons6101 Pretty much every construct in every universe has an unarmored interior. That's simply how construction works.
Umm...no, and the evidence is within The Last Jedi. The firing arc of the First Order vessels is only about 2 miles (about 5 lengths of the Radis). The NX-01, which is nearly a hundred years older than the Vengeance could hit small, fast moving objects 100,000 miles away after dropping from warp (ST:ENT: The Augments). Also, ships in the Abrams verse move far faster than ships in the prime timeline. For reference, getting 12 light years (the distance to Vulcan) took about ten minutes in the first movie, not the week or so in ST: Enterprise. So two light years would be covered quickly, and I doubt Marcus would let them sit there for the several days they would need to repair the ship. As well, we also now know that Starfleet shields are far stronger than Imperial shields as evidence from both Rogue One and Last Jedi. The Imperial Shields allowed objects through them, mainly fighters and other solid objects (like Torpedoes) where as Federation shields do not. Also keep in mind, Federation crews are scientist and engineers. They would have scanned the Star Destroyer, repaired their ship, looked for weaknesses in the Destroyer, and when it came back, targeted the vulnerable shuttle bays and sub-light drive units. Hell, they could have just maneuvered behind them and stayed there. Also, in the Original series, the Federation ships used warp drive to maneuver during combat, meaning that small hyperspace jump would be negated quickly (quick note, the Picard Maneuver is basically the same thing). And from Star Trek Discovery and The Original Series, which takes place at the same time as Into Darkness, we know that Starfleet weapons are far more powerful, with one ship able to output enough firepower to devastate a planet. In Last Jedi, the First Order relied on that Dreadnought to destroy the Resistance base, and the blast wasn't even visible from space. And since we see just how many hits a Federation ship can take, that gives us an idea on how tough their ships really are. I think you guys tend to give these battles too quickly to the Imperials. Yes, their ships are heavily armed, but they aren't really all that capable.
It is because Star Wars fans still cling to the "200 Gigaton" Turbolaser claim, when the movies and cartoons debunk this. In Legends an ISD can glass a planet in a day where as in CANON we clearly see they are nowhere near that power level by Thrawn's bombardments. This is further backed by the more powerful dreadnought's bombardment, as the explosion the dreadnought's special guns caused was smaller then that of a nuclear explosion.
I've done a lot of studying on the power levels of the Star Wars factions, mainly thanks to the Empire VS Covenant debates. :3
Winter Phoanix Hmmm... Now that you mention it and after I looked it up. Yes. Seems about right. =\
Raving Rando........ By that logic you can only say their most ST ships can't target things far away because they always attack each other within a few miles at most in the show. You cannot judge the SW universe and the power of the weapons from a show meant for kids. I mean, in that show, the turbolasers caused a smaller explosion that our modern day mortars. They also have trained soldiers getting defeated by having fruit thrown at them. So while the 200 Gigaton claim is false, the childrens cartoon also can't be used for an accurate representation.
Jame M...... I totally agree that the range in TLJ is utterly ridiculous. It just goes to show why that movie was garbage for me and around half the fanbase.
catmani2 thing is, that "kids cartoon" is canon and the only actual showing of an orbital bombardment
I really like seeing both of you together in a video.
I believe that the call would have been for all available ships to converge on earth to defend it not hunt down one ship regardless of how big it was it threatened the security of earth defence first
Buckaroo Banzai started Yoyodine industries, (cannon builder of some ST ships & one of if not only private company in TNG.) had a secret survivalist spy group that could have survived the apocalypse. He traved dimensions and time, and had unnatural hate of Khan. Is Marcus BB , did Penny die because Kahn, with normal rivalry of 2 smartes - best people suddenly forced to work together. Ie is Marcus BB and Blue Blazers sec 31 lol and Carol Penny and BB's daughter...
Pfft... There's no evidence that turbolasers would do crap to Starfleet shields. Excited plasma? Star Trek has ships on the surface of stars regularly.
When you can give me a concrete number as to Star Fleet weaon yields and start talking quantity rather than quality, then you can talk smack. I'm not even denying that new Star wars ships are better than Abrams Starfleet ships, but until you get into yields and stop skating in no limits fallacies, shut up and Gene Rottenberrys tomb stone.
There’s tons of data on weapons yields as well as what Trek ships can/have had thrown at them and survived.
In The Doomsday Machine, the “Doomsday Machine” hits with the power of a Death Star shot each time.
The old constitution class Enterprise takes SEVERAL hits before losing shields and takes a few more without shields before having to pull away and STILL doesn’t show ANY hull damage.
In the same episode, the Constellation had survived even more hits from the Doomsday Machine and had suffered severe hull damage but was still basically functional.
As early as the pilot, we’re told that one shot from a shipboard phaser is enough to destroy an entire continent.
Star Wars vessels don’t stand a chance.
@@d_jedi1 and what evidence/data is there to prove that those things fire with the power of a Death Star?
Ok here is talking smack for you....
First: Star Trek basic Copy Right " Anti- Matter weapons."
Second: On screen Cannon , Star Trek ships impluse speed for their warship move at 1/4th of light speed. In the RPG FASA books star ships combat speed is 1/4th of c.
Star Wars RPG states their ship take 30mins to travel from a planet to it's nearest moon. ST can do that within 7sec. Star Wars says nothing about their ship speed in space on film. Other than it takes a few mintues for a ship to clear a planet's gravity well before they can jump to hyper space.
Star Trek fasers move about the v=c. Long story short a speck of cigarette ash of iron dust measuring 1/4th of a sq mm. weight of 8,0000 of a milligram hits with the force of 6 ton of tnt.= 3megawatts/ jouls of energy per sq/ cm. Due to the mass area of the faser emitter they are dropping 24 tons or 12 mw/ sq inch area. Sorry but this is way more energy used to kill a 60 ton tank.
Third: Do way with faster than light and anti- matter weapons. And just stick with what the Earth already has. Star Wars fighter craft carries missiles about a meter length which would have a 100lb Swan hyrogen nuke with a gross yeid of 5kilotons or a 1kiloton impact surface hit.= 500 megawatts/jouel. ." yes my spelling sucks,"
Star Trek II & TNG photon torpedo are little over 2m in length and can hold a full grown adult male or a 300lb W80 150 kiloton nuke warhead. Star Trek missiles 30x more powerful than Star Wars. This is by today's energy standers.
Doomsday Machine, is smack talk.
The Vengeance was soooo cool
If that ship can catch a calamari cruiser, it's not catching the vengeance. Great video guys
Beam some photon torpedo's in the vicinity of the reactor of the star destroyer!
The fighters of finalizer were are they??
Exactly.
They’d be useless and would be melted by the vengeance’s phasers. Phasers are capable of functioning as point defense as shown in TNG when the Enterprise D destroys about 15 shuttlecraft/fighters in about a second.
"Fractional refresh rate." *laughs in Duras*
Remember the vengeance travels 3x faster then enterprise maximum warp. They’d be able follow and disable them in hyper jump.
There is no way in any universe the star destroyer has 1500 turbolasers. Even 150 is being generous. Im thinking someone punched in an extra 0.
Just Beam The Photon Torpedos onto the Star Destroyers Main Engines
The Vengeance can beam through shields....
Marcus's daughter was beamed through shields
no they cant the vengeance took out the enterprise's shields before they beamed her out
@@jeremiah5430 I watched the other day and I remember they had some maybe not full but some although I could be wrong. Thank you for clarifying.
Vengeance would win in my opinion because if it beamed aboard armed torpedoes, all scattered on vital areas throughout the ship, (shields, engines, bridge, life support, etc.) it would disable and eventually destroy the Star Destroyer.
Side note: Vengence can scan and figure out where the Destroyer's vital areas are, and it can do what McCoy and Spock did to Khan. They beamed over armed torpedoes and they detonated inside the Vengeance.
And c'mon, E.S.D. is always surrounded by dozens of ships.
15000 turbolasers? No, sorry, that is the Assertor Class, not the Resurgent.
1500 not 15000
Potatoman780 1 Look at the Assertor, and you will see what I mean.
A briadside from the Resurgent just devastates everything you throw that at.
The problem with a broadside is that the thing you're trying to shoot has to be at your side. And a Star Fleet vessel is ridiculously more maneuverable than any SD. Plus with their sensors they would have seen that danger almost immediately and avoid it easily.
"Captain, they are now locking lasers on us." "Lasers!?" "Yes, sir." "Lasers can't even penetrate our navigation shields. Don't they know that?" "Regulations do call for yellow alert." "Hmm, a very old regulation. Well, make it so Number One. And, reduce speed... drop main shields, as well." "May I ask why, sir?" "In case we decide to surrender to them, Number One... "
I was gonna say that Starfleet has the same micro jump maneuver with warp. Also I think that the impulse speed and maneuverability would be more of an advantage. not only that but I don't know how powerful the deflector array is but I do know it can deflect meteors and things with constant velocity so I don't know how molten plasma would do against that.
I like both Star Wars and Star Trek- don't 'favor' one over the other. However, this video is absolutely ridiculous, for many reasons. First, your assuming the Federation tech is way less powerful than what it is. 2nd, your science is way off. and 3rd? The Resurgent wouldn't even make it past the battle with an Excelsior or Constitution class star ship.
1st- Federation tech.
Weapons: One Star Trek ship in TOS can obliterate an entire civilization/planet surface (General order 24). "This is the commander of the USS Enterprise. All cities and installations on Eminiar 7 have been located, identified, and fed into our fire control system. In 1 hour and 45 minutes, the entire inhabited surface of your planet will be destroyed. You have that long to surrender your hostages."
--TOS "A Taste of Armageddon".
Ok- think of the difference. ONE TOS ship... and that's OLD Constitution class trek tech with phasers, 2 fore and 2 aft torpedo launchers, . Now lets look at the Resurgent... 1500 turbo lasers for 'planetary bombardment'. Could the Resurgent devastate an entire planet? Perhaps, but it's going to take 1500 turbo lasers to do as much damage as a Star Trek TOS Class 1 Heavy Cruiser? lol.
Shields. Lasers can't get past the Navigational screens (Deflector Dish) of Star Trek ships. Lets say for the sake of argument a 'turbo' laser can (Ionized plasma hybrid? Okay). Good luck penetrating even OLD school TOS shields- A Constitution-class starship's shields could take the equivalent of ninety photon torpedoes at once. They could do so a total of five times before shattering completely. (TOS: "The Changeling").
So far, a mothballed TOS museum ship can take out that Star Destroyer.... shall we move on?
Science: Speed and mass. Star Trek ships can fight at warp speed. Even Photon torpedoes can travel at warp speeds. Unless a star wars ship is making a hyperspace jump, its traveling at slow, sub light speeds. Think of it this way- the battle would be over before the Star Destroyer would know where the incoming fire was coming from. To the star trek ship, the Star Destroyer would appear to be 'standing still'. To the Star Destroyer? They would not even be able to see, detect, track or know where the Star Trek ship is... it's traveling at FTL (so are its weapons).
Here is what a battle between a FTL ship and a Sub light ship with SHITTY sensors would look like:
The bridge conversation on the Star Destroyer would go something like this:
"Open fire on that ship!"
"Sir, Its gone!"
"Did we destroy it?"
"I don't think so commander, our Turbo laser fire was half way to the ship when it disappeared, and there is no debris field"
"What? Did they jump to hyperspace?"
"No sir... one moment they were there, the next there was a light flash and they disappeared"
"Sir, we are being hailed"
"By the planet? It's about time they considered terms of surrender to the Empire!"
"NO sir, it's from the ship- but we can't pinpoint the location of the transmission... according to our instruments, the signal is very distorted, but in roughly a circular pattern traveling faster than light... and it's circling our location."
"Impossible!"
"Sir, the transmission... they are identifying their ship as the USS Enterprise... they have scanned us... and say that if we don't immediately break orbit from 'Earth' that we will be fired upon. They are also demanding that we power down all weapons and shields... and prepare to have a boarding party 'beamed'(?) aboard and then we will be escorted to the 4th planet of the solar system. Failure to comply in 5 minutes(?) will result in our immediate destruction."
"Insolent curs! How DARE they! Open fire on that ship!, And launch ALL Tie fighters".
"Sir, we still can't FIND it!"
"Well, perhaps they have some sort of cloaking technology... lets make them come out of hiding! Open fire on the planet. Target one of their smaller cities... we don't want to damage too much of the emperors future property after all, but we do want to let them know that such arrogance will not be left unpunished! And tell all gun crews to be prepared to reacquire the... Enterprise?... for destruction once the cowards stops hiding."
"Gun crews locking on to a city on the largest continent.... SIR! We're taking fire!"
"Where!?! Location, speed, direction and trajectory!"
"It's coming from EVERYWHERE sir!"
"What do you mean everywhere!?!"
"Sir, gun crews can only see beam weapons flashing out of empty space along with... My god sir! They are using anti-matter weapons! Our shields are weakening... but when we redirect more power to a critical area they are retargeting the weakest shield. Our shields won't hold much longer! Commander! Our gun crews can't see any 'ship' that is firing on us! They have nothing to target! Sir, Our fighters are being disintegrated... and they report nothing to target as well!"
"I want fire on that damned ship! FIND IT!"
"Sir, the Enterprise is hailing us again... it's captain is saying that while he can keep this up 'all day long' , his 'science officer(?)' has indicated to him that we have a 97.6% probability of certain destruction in 23.67 seconds if we don't cease hostilities immediately... commander... his tone is 'amused'.
So you know what? I don't care if that star destroyer has 30,000 turbo lasers with 5 trillion giga watts of power each. It can't hit what it can't see or track. To think that a star ship is going to 'sit still' when it comes under fire is naïve. FEDERATION SHIPS CAN FIGHT AT WARP SPEEDS. To the Empire, there is no such thing. Only space, speed of light, and hyperspace. And you can't have it both ways. Either it's a laser firing at light speed (which wont pass though navigational screens on a star trek ships), or its a plasma/projectile which of course means its traveling at sub light speeds. Constitution class ships fight at least at 0.85c. (when not fighting at warp speed).A turbo laser goes at 0.00003c- those plasma cannons are SO slow to a federation ship that can fight even at sub light speeds at a MUCH higher speed!. Do you see now why the Enterprise in my scenario 'popped' out of existence- it went to warp- meaning you can't 'see' it anymore. To the empire it either disappeared or cloaked. The human eye can't detect anything faster than light- you 'see' it in the movies, but in real life there would be nothing but flashes of light,. Pretty bad when your gun crews are all humans... even if they are using computers to aid in fire control. At 'best' something would 'flash by' in the distance and be gone before a puny Empire brain could register a ghost of an image. The only thing they would 'see' is random flashes of light (incoming weapons trajectories) in whatever random flight pattern the Star Fleet ship is taking running literal circles around the Star Destroyer. Get behind the Star Destroyer? Lol, It's already warped around it firing torpedoes and phasers 12 or 13 times in 10 seconds at about 200,000 kilometers distance at Warp 1... which by the way isn't even max range. If anything, the enterprise would be moving at such higher respective speeds to the star destroyer that it risks going TOO fast around the Star Destroyer... and may have to make elliptical 'passes' at a leisurely Warp 1. Either way- no way that the empire could track it, let alone shoot at it. Lets say a turbo laser gets in the projected path of the Enterprise... at 0.00003c even using a phaser bank as a point defense system can easily handle it. Or better yet, its going so slow the Enterprise just goes around it. The reason you don't see such one sided battles in Star Trek universe is that every race is using similar- if not the same tech/speed/relative shields and weaponry. In battle they are all moving RELATIVE to one another- that just is NOT possible for a star destroyer to do at warp speed vs. sublight!
So sorry Star wars fans. Thought I love the franchise, there isn't even a discussion to get into. No scenario could see the destroyer coming out on top. The tech in the Star Wars universes is just too primitive (with the exception of hyper space- but even jump calculations take time, remember "It's not like dusting crops back home"). One jump to light speed and it's game over. Speculation over. No chance- you can't fight what you cant hit or see. And your own firepower is Waaaaayyyyy to slow to arrive on target! It would be like firing a BB gun at an F16. You cant get the speed, velocity or mass on target, even if the F16 has to 'slow down' to hit you back, your still going to loose. So argue all you want about weapons, power, shields, yields, mass, size, fighter, on and on... in the final analysis- the Destroyer can't even see what is killing it.
Thank you. It is a very amusing scenario to muse over, but it should not take one much musing to realise this outcome.
This video really should have been a comparison between ship technology in the respective universes rather than an attempt to match two wildly different levels of technology against each other. The fans debate and argue over the Months since this video was posted, but few people bother to compare actual stats from the lore such as you did.
I think people forget it's not a competition about which lore is 'better'. Stating the fact that any Star Wars universe vessel is no match for a vessel from the Star Trek universe is not denigrating Star Wars. It's just a silly match up. A good comparison would be if I got upset because someone pointed out Aragorn from Lord Of The Rings would be defeated in a fist fight with Darth Vader. No sh** sherlock..... He would be disintegrated immediately, just like that Star Destroyer.
I know it has been awhile since you made this posting, but could you read this over as a audio clip would be great to hear. If you know anyone who could do a better job at it with sound effects like a trash can slamming up the outside wall of a garage would also be great.
With ability to beam stuff, why doesn't Federation always just beam torpedoes onto enemy ships? I think i've seen it quite often in the series...
That' would be perfect, Beam it to the bridge or engine.. booom
Just beam a photon torpedo near the engines and boom! The star destroyer is done. Transporter tech makes Star Wars ships obsolete.
The Vengence beams the crew of the Resurgent into space. Star trek wins.
The Vengeance engages in a series of high warp strafing runs firing on the Star Destroyer at FTL speeds, never exiting warp until outside their enemies weapons range. The Vengeance is never even SEEN by the SW ship, and easily destroys the enemy vessel without taking a single hit.
Captain Kirk vs Thrawn.
If they had equally powerful ships, Thrawn would obliterate Kirk.
If Kirk had OP Star Trek ships, he might stand a chance.
And Kirk would just use face palm FTW.
Lord Pootis Let's make it more fair. Enterprise-F vs Thrawn
@@surokthevulcan5155 thrawn
You really underestimate him
@@x_12unknown10 I don't overestimate him. His entire fleet was destroyed by space whales... some admiral
Why does this only have 60 views
It’s not public yet, you found it in a playlist
GENERATION TECH REPLIED! NOTICE ME SENPAI!!!
First, and interesting problem, we've seen NO sign of super long range sensors on star destroyers or any star wars ships... A star destroyer can't scan a planetary system 5 light years out. So they sensors wouldn't SEE ships at warp travel. On the flip side, The Federation DOES have experience with hyperspace. They just don't use it because of the amount of deadly radiation it generates. It DOES however create a subspace pressure wave and Nuclear signal that CAN be detected, tracked, and plotted.
Now luckly this is only "TOS" level of tech. Voyager Era and Post Voyager, weapons become well... a single torpedo could destroy a moon. And starships get the ability to use transwarp conduits... and travel across the galaxy in hours.
Then the federation are most definitely not using star wars hyperspace.
you forget that the kelvin timeline is more advanced.
Hyperspace in star wars is the exact same as subspace in star trek.
Hyperspace in Star War can be affected be things in not-Hyperspace. While subspace in Star Trek can just go anywhere it wants.
It’s kinda not the same
I was born when ST TOS was on the fist time and I was a nerd. Nice to see the next generation has nerdiness well in hand