Interesting will always outweigh pretty for me. Anyone can be pretty, and many people can be mainstream beautiful, but it takes a thoughtful approach and a certain degree of authenticity to be genuinely interesting to look at. Tacky is an insult aimed at people who aren't interested in matching the instagram standard, by people who can't break free from it.
Tacky is an insult used to describe someone as cheap looking or unappealing. Tacky does not necessarily mean interesting, neither does it imply that people use it out of insecurity
All though, I do have to point out that people have a subconscious drive to show more interest towards people they deem attractive: it is proven that conventionally attractive are more likely to succeed in life, since they are more easily able to get a job, create social contacts and are overall just more confident (Im generalizing of course). All of this isnt to say that it’s impossible for someone who isn’t as ‘attractive’ can’t do all these things as more: it just goes to show that, indeed, the more we become aware of our prejudices the more we are able to stop handling according to them.
I don’t think ANYONE can be pretty but anyone/anything can be beautiful. But beauty is subjective. And I guess sometimes beauty is also carrying a certain taste level with it. But taste is ALSO subjective. 🫠 where are we?! Lol 🫣
opposite of authentic, using recourses like money just to look specifically to cosplay the aesthetics of people who have less is gross and wasteful. the entire ethos of thrifting is to spend LESSSSSS while still looking just as good, if not better, than people participating in wasteful fast fashion
@@crunchysalmonswhilst the behaviour of spending a lot to "cosplay" a certain aesthetic may be inauthentic to you the example of Dolly Parton the original commenter used is someone who contributes greatly to the wider community and could be considered to be someone who is greatly authentic :)
@@crunchysalmonsDolly Parton is from extreme poverty. She's not "cosplaying" anything. She's dressing in a way she genuinely finds beautiful. Its actually complete bs to call her "unauthentic" if you know anything about her. I guess we're supposed to be mad just because she made it and had a succesful career. 🙄 Guessing you also know nothing about her extensive charity work specifically aimed to help people living in poverty.
16 year olds spending lots of money and renting limos to go to a school prom? meanwhile the alt kids all skipped prom and used that money to rent a place and to throw an art show. ghetto prom is tacky and trashy
@@feji88 amen! And let’s be real! How many times in an average person’s life are they going to get to go all-out for a big, formal bash?? Many, many children are not lucky enough to grow up having birthday parties and grad parties. Most new moms don’t get to have baby showers. Bridal showers, bachelor/bachelorette parties, weddings…. while seemingly common, the reality is that most people around the world do NOT get to experience lavish parties and events that celebrate life. Whereas with prom, that’s a more accessible life event seeing as most schools have it as part of normal extra curricular programs. And the cost of venue, food, etc. is split up amongst the whole class and whatever the school pitches in, if anything. As opposed to the host (ie: bride, etc) usually bearing all of the financial responsibility. As long as going full send doesn’t put them in financial straits, I say go for it!!!
I am absolutely an emo white girl LMAO, but I feel like I literally noticed in REAL TIME the same girls who called the Spanish/ Latina girls “tacky” for their look, now rock the same shit repackaged as a “clean girl aesthetic” when i remember chunky gold jewelry, slicked back low buns, minimal but feature defining makeup, and athlesire being a token of “trashy” or “ghetto” as well…. When black or brown girls did it 😑. I am not a trend follower myself, I’ve been the same emo fuck since I was 12 LMAO I just wish more people could form their own identities instead of copy and pasting whatever is trending with the masses.
This is spot on omg. And it’s becoming even worse now. Especially on TikTok we’re seeing the clean girl evolve into the “sade girl” or “Kendrick Lamar girl” but it’s just the appropriation and repackage of black and brown and Latin culture. It’s so irritating
Literally or just another aspect of a Latinas culture is the frilly avantgarde bows and ribbons in our hair, braids, embroidered cotton dresses, fuck even la Virgen de Guadalupe used for aesthetic purposes just to get tossed away and forgotten once summer/ the trend is over.
For me, Chappell Roan reclaiming tacky is similar to how queer folks are reclaiming gay, queer, etc.. Those were words used to look down upon people and now it’s being celebrated and embraced as an identity. I do agree that only certain folks will be celebrated for being tacky vs looked down upon.
As a non-american whose idea of prom is like the one you see in movies since we don't do those here, I am absolutely flabercasted by how amazing those "hood" proms look. Like they have entire statement outfits in a certain theme! It looks so much more fun and interesting than the basic prom.
i’m american and honestly shocked too. teenagers growing up are actually inspired by the prom scenes that you’d see in movies. it never really was an extravagant thing before the movie scenes. that’s where kids got the ideas to get limos and wear over the top dresses.
similar to late Rococo on rich romantizing the lower class, cottage clothing started with Marie Antoinette's small cottage village. Yes, it's again about classism as the podcaster stated. Trend setters are unfortunately rich and if rich sees a clothing style as bad then it's bad but if they actually try on those clothes and other people gets influenced on this "artistic touch" (lmao) then it's a trend that's how it works on cultures that has hierarchy unfortunately, that's why I'm proud of my culture that actually has no hierarchy historically and my people were against it unlike Europeans (which Europeans of US aka so called as "whites" in US tend to set things too, just like mainland Europeans)
Hiii! I just found your channel. If you don’t mind, I think it would be better if you could move your mic a little lower so we can fully see your lips when you speak. I realized reading the lips help me understand the words bettee and faster. But anyway, you don’t have to listen to me 😂😂 Just a suggestion.
I think another thing that bothers me when it comes to people being hateful (essentially racist and classist) towards Black, Indigenous, and other young poor kids who go all out for prom, is that there's this encouragement for creativity, but once these kids express their creativity and have fun with their version of extravagance, it's "tacky and therefore unimaginative" Like how does that work??
I have been WAITING for the soulless clean girl era to end and I’m so glad we’re experimenting again although sadly aesthetics are mainly about turning identity into a consumerist pastime. In 2021 a girl made a TikTok predicting future social trends and said society tends to swing like a pendulum, and we’ll start embracing messy eyeliner again and I’m so glad her words finally came true! Only makes it better that I’ve been a hardcore Charlie xcx fan for a few years also
God I hated that clean girl look. I am an older millennial and grew up during the Emo, hipster Instagram girl era where people had some style to them so obviously I didn't get the "I am a clean girl influencer, I live in a constant state of ambient neon lighting". vibe thing LoL
Grew up in 1st gen Cuban in a multi-racial, but pretty much Latino, environment and I'm also gay and my first gay friends were Latin and Black. I can absolutely tell you these cultures have rich camp traditions because they also have long queer lineages in them. Mainstream gay culture has pretty much however coopted a lot of POC camp (particularly that of Black Queer Folks) and then the mainstream sees a white face attached to camp expression. As imperfect as Drag Race can be I am glad the head of a big source of contemporary queer camp is a black man.
Also those proms reminded me of many a quinceañera which were often big outlandish events with rehearsals and choreo. I was in one and it was a whole production ... and even as a kid we all knew quinceañeras were "tacky" but I think it's become a beloved Latin camp symbol, inspiring Hispanic drag queens all over the world.
The whole idea of the modern prom is camp. Kids going to a ballroom dance party and playing pretended adults. Its funny to me that people would dog on campy prom. That's the whole point so have fun.
@@weirddd469 they’re basically just saying that they’re confused by people making fun of the modern prom idea because it’s fun and over exaggerated and that’s what people have been asking for lately.
I've never thought of Chappel Roan as tacky and it shocked me a bit that she calls herself that. She's always been just ...too clean and preplanned almost to be truly tacky. Camp, sure, but when i think of tacky i think of people like Snooki (true definer of the 2000s aesthetic). What chappel wears in the examples of her being 'tacky' is rly to me just met gala camp theme shit imo. It feels like every bit of what she does is too obviously meticulously planned to the last detail to be truly tacky.
i agree 😭 i always felt insecure about being/been called tacky so seeing a person in a very well thought out outfit and makeup just too big makes me thing if Thats tacky what am i 😭 snooki is closer to how i feel and they look amazing doing it too, the whole 2000's culture and aesthetic issss tacky in a cool way
Idk that that's everyone's contemporary definition of tacky though. Often people view it as a synonym to words like "gaudy," which can be meticulous or messy depending on the context. But I also disagree with the supposed messiness of ppl like Snooki, she wasn't dressing that way bc of a lack of planning, she actually looked exactly the way she planned to and was following very specific style codes of her aesthetic.
Yeah, she can be as "tacky" as she wants because there's no risk there, it feels more cool and authentic when the person doing it isn't topping charts haha
Tacky is whatever upper-class people viewed as poor people cosplaying as rich. Chappell and Snooki both fit the original definition of tacky, a synonym for “gaudy” as someone else stated. The definition has changed over time, to be more of a “style” (especially in the 2000s) but that doesn’t make Chappell wrong in defining herself that way, she’s using a definition which predates the mcbling-associated style
I'm curious what you consider "pulling off tacky well" because that almost sounds to me like there's a correct and incorrect way to be tacky. In this context, I'd say rather you appreciate the way they utilize the aesthetic or not. That said, agreed with all other points!
I'd imagine it's refers to how good a person is at complementing their clothes and making a cohesive outfit. It still instills a bit of fear on people that want to try a new style, especially with the preasure on tik tok to look perfect? Idk, but it's an understandable take.
I think it’s whether it’s about the intent of the individual that determines whether the tacky in question is correct or incorrect. Tacky in a intentional, “i’m being subversive on purpose” kind of way (such as Chappel) is seen as correct in this context precisely because Chappel is curating a tacky aesthetic which implies that there’s some sort of genius behind it. I suppose the incorrect way would be someone who is not tacky on purpose and is not necessarily trying to reclaim anything. It is simply how they dress and there’s not much thought behind it. Although the visual end result may be the same, the former is regarded as correct because the person “pulling it off well” is being tacky on purpose.
I always think of John Waters when I think of tacky. He said something along the the lines of 'There's such a thing as bad bad taste and good bad taste. In order to understand bad taste one must have very good taste.'
There's also an element of queer identity that comes with CAMP, which the black community is less welcoming towards in general. I agree with your other comments though, amazing video.
I loved your closing question: "Can the concept of tacky be separated from elitism or classism"? ...I really don't think so, in short I think the idea of what is 'good' will always be rooted in what appeals to the upper echelon of people and as long as that divide exists so will the smearing campaigns of less fortunate persons trying their best Great video ♡
i dont like chapell that much, however i get the hype. but i love her dedication to the craft. its something i try to embrace too. i always gravitate towards persons who dont give a damn about trends
@aussiefurbymogwaifan6621 i should have said, "Not that i don't like her, i don't find her interesting." her music is very nice. maybe it needs to grow on me
I LOVE the extravagant Prom looks and entrances! Let’s be real! How many times in an average person’s life are they going to get to go all-out for a big, formal bash?? Many, many children are not lucky enough to grow up having birthday parties and grad parties. Most new moms don’t get to have baby showers. Bridal showers, bachelor/bachelorette parties, weddings…. while seemingly common, the reality is that most people around the world do NOT get to experience lavish parties and events that celebrate life. Whereas with prom, that’s a more accessible life event seeing as most schools have it as part of normal extra curricular programs. And the cost of venue, food, etc. is split up amongst the whole class and whatever the school pitches in, if anything. As opposed to the host (ie: bride, etc) usually bearing all of the financial responsibility. As long as going full send doesn’t put them in financial straits, I say go for it!!!
Just happy to see the mainstream starting to break away from the monotony that Swift's chokehold on popular culture has subjected us to for the last half decade.
i think a lot of hate comes on hispanic and black women because a lot of things that are very creative and out of box on nails, lashes and clothing and so many other fashion related things have been seen as ghetto but if a “creative” such as julia fox or kim or kyle it’s seen as high fashion so i do totally agree with this video i think tacky is in the matter of perception of the on looker
Most likely those “creative” examples you gave use it as an aesthetic in the same way as a Beyoncé or Jlo would and they won’t be called those things because people know that to an extent it’s a look and not who they are. It’s different when a creative with a polished background takes on a look because there is some separation in who they are and the story they’re telling. There’s an understanding that this is intentional and they also will go about it in different manor that someone who isn’t “refined” . It’s not really about race but values. They will trash a trashy rich white person too. (Ex. Ke$ha). One is embracing an aesthetic, the other is revealing who they are. Take that as you will…🤷🏾♂️
Huh. Coming from the LGBTQ community, (disclosure, I’m white,) this is the first time I’ve heard someone talk about “camp” as not Black-inclusive. And…not cause I’m sheltered. lol The gays might not be solely responsible for camp, but they certainly perfected it. With a MAJOR contribution coming from the NYC drag/ballroom culture of the late 70’s early 80’s a la “Paris is Burning.” Which was almost entirely Black and Latino. Like, I’m sure some white folks found their way in, but they would’ve stood out. Camp (and Drag) would not exist in its current form without this contribution, which was amazingly (and shockingly) ushered into accepted popular culture by RuPaul in the 90’s. Younger Millennials and Gen Z might only be familiar with RuPaul from “Drag Race,” but “elder millennials” and Gen X have a vivid memory of the boundaries they originally pushed. To sum up, not all camp is drag, but all drag is camp. While not all drag is Black, drag as we know it would not exist without Black Queer culture. And because camp as we know it would NOT be defined as it is in this video without drag, camp is inseparable from the “Hood.” Personally, I consider “Hood Proms” as a fabulous example of high camp. I actually got my degree in education, and got my first job teaching HS in an 80% Black and Latino district. Yes, it was my first time living full time as an ethnic minority. And yes, my kids initially gave me A LOT of shit for being a young, white girl, straight outta college, completely in over my head. 😂 I worked my butt off that first year trying to live up to the expectations I was handed, and somewhere in the process I lost my focus just enough to realize my kids actually liked me a lot. Don’t get me wrong, it was still A LOT. But the next 4 years (until making a major cross-country move,) were an absolute joy. Especially that first spring, when I was a chaperone for prom. I remember my own prom. And frankly, it wasn’t much to write home about. But I remember watching my kids get out of their cars in this absolute glamour of dare I say…camp. ESPECIALLY the boys. Oh, my sweet boys in baby blue tuxes with ruffled shirts and white canes. At 23, I’d never seen anything like it. (My immediate thought was, “Wow, we totally did prom wrong. 😂😂😂) I never knew the root of the word “tacky.” I also just realized I haven’t listened to any of Chappell Roan’s interviews, because my immediate visual description of her has been “camp.” The word tacky never crossed my mind. But, after listening to her and especially listening to the old Dolly Parton comments, it made sense. I desperately love that you brought McMansion Hell into this conversation, as her blog has given me breathless tears of joys for over a decade. But it’s also fascinating, because it made me realize that’s the only context I’ve ever used the word in. Quite possibly, because I grew up in a working-class Italian-American family/community in CT. The “patron state of old money.” (Not a club I ever belonged to, but one I was well familiar with.) And yeah, I’ve hustled for every cent I’ve ever made. I also hustled my way into the fine arts through a bunch of prep school kids growing up. While not having, “money,” I can confidently say I have a fairly objective understanding of things like balance, design, and color. Upon witnessing McMansions, (and the inhabitants thereof,) my first thought was always, “My God, if you’re gonna do that, someone else deserves your money.” But here’s the catch. I’ve always been able to distinguish the difference between THAT, and camp. Again to quote Queen Dolly, “It costs a lot to look this cheap.” Which is beautifully tongue in cheek because the thing is, Dolly Parton has NEVER looked “cheap.” If you take into account my above mentioned principles of balance, design, and color, Dolly Parton is NOT a McMansion of a woman. She’s a Frank Lloyd Wright with rhinestones. That’s the essence of camp. Camp has architectural principles and rules. Which is why there’s good camp vs failed attempts, and the difference is easy to identify. Just like the different between a brilliant work of modern architectural design, and a giant dump of bricks and mismatched windows pretending to be a house. The vivid, multicultural, world of drag understands those design principles better than anyone else, because they wrote the goddam textbook. So, here’s my final thought. If “tacky” was originally derogatory for poor, white, southerners, and “ghetto” currently derogatory for poor, urban, PoC…Then “camp” is the art of synthesizing both and elevating them through a finely tuned lens of balance, design, and color.
What you said towards the end about how white skin suggests self-awareness in being over the top while black people are perceived as being over the top out of ignorance, aka “tacky” hit the nail on the head with why “hood proms” receive hate. Seriously a great explanation.
Great video! I think you really nailed the way that I've thought about camp vs tacky, which is awareness of the silliness. So much of our culture mocks people for sincerity, which is really unfortunate. I appreciate all the nuance you brought to this topic, too
the way i hadn't heard of you before but one of your videos randomly popped up on my fyp today and i binge watched you all morning, then to click out and get a brand new video??
I think you’re spot on in your commentary. My only addition skinny. A skinny girl and an average sized girlie can wear the same thing and on one it’ll be praised and the other called tacky for sure. It’s been on my mind a lot watching love island USA this season
I also think that for the majority of us “regular” people, who will most likely never get a chance to experience events where you can dress up in your absolute best (be that gowns or suits or outlandish outfits), prom, bar mizvahs, quinceañeras, weddings, ext. are the only event in your life were you will have the opportunity to do go all out. we don’t have the luxury of red carpets, award shows, met galas or fashion weeks to explore with extravagance and glamour. Especially when you work a 9 to 5 with a dress code and the only times when you can explore your personal style are in going out to clubs, bars, or other social events. really great video!! gave me a lot to think about !
I was a theater kid also in a small Midwest town and often made fun of for my non “trendy” style. I wasn’t interested in wearing uggs with blinged jeans and some basic pullover…because everyone else wore that. Little did I know, I was ahead of my time. Seeing Chappell Roan truly embrace her style and persona warms my heart❤
As someone who grew up in a 98% white suburb, but now teaches HS in a much much more diverse part of the same state- I LOVE the camp. I look back at my prom photos and go “damn I really just look boring, I look like everyone else” EXCEPT one prom I went to where I wore a jumpsuit instead of a dress and lemme tell you I got JUDGED FOR THAT! I ask to chaperone prom every year now because I love seeing how creative these kids are and how unapologetic they are about going all out for prom, it’s so much FUN! And isn’t that what it’s about? Anyway, this video was AWESOME and I’m so glad I found your channel! 🎉
So in orign "tacky" is like how the term "dandy" or a "fop" is back in the olden days. A fop is someone who wears too many things just to look good to a certain crowd of other rich people; "keeping up appearances" like it was a sport.
This is a fantastic video essay! I loved your in depth linguistics history on the word tacky and your link to the Little Boxes song, which has such a great and powerful social critique. Great work. You do really great research and I loved ur analysis. Gladly subscribing
Resisting the urge to use the typical comments section standpoint framing of “As an XYZ,” but this is making me reflect on the concept of tackiness as defined/expressed/condemned by Dominicans and their diaspora, specifically, with class status so explicitly tied to racial disavowal.
ive also noticed this in rap with new rappers like Nettspend, Xaviersobased, & Yhapojj. Especially xavier, he really embraces tackiness and makes what many people would call “bad music”
omg i didn't know what tacky was but i think there's a word in my native language that has exactly the same usage and a similiar history in my country aswell it is starting to have a more positive usage and that's so cool
I love being tacky. It's so much more beautiful and interesting and unique than not. Not to say you can't be all those without a hint of tackiness, because you definitely can! But like....Trends are just that: Trends. Ever changing. So if I wanna dress like it's still 2013 tumblr, who's gonna stop me? Nobody. I just take inspo from anything I want to and smash it together and that's fine. Also, as a certified trailer trash girlie, I feel it's in my blood to intentionally look messy sometimes. I could look polished, but why would I when tacky and trashy is so much more fun? Sometimes it's carefully tailored and planned trashy, so it looks put together, but it's still tacky and trashy. 😂
As a kid hearing “ur not supposed to wear white after Labor Day” annoyed me. Even if it was a joke. I’m ready to watch this commentary. It’s like I get to have convos with ppl who talk about things I notice or sometimes may not notice but is still true
I commented this under another video that was discussing prom in the Black community and you basically shared my exact same thoughts. Black people are some of the most preppy and campiest people, yet it always gets labeled differently. There is still this underlying belief in society that Black people think differently from other races of people. It’s like slavery has physically ended but people still mentally haven’t fully accepted that Black people are human just like everyone else and think the same way as everyone else. It’s like we expect every version of something to look the same for every race. Whiteness does not dictate nor define definitions.
@@perfectallycromulent The first Ghetto was in Venice, unlikely that it's Dutch. "The etymology of the word is uncertain, as there is no agreement among etymologists about the origins of the Venetian language term as it pertains to a neighborhood. One theory of the word can be traced to a special use of the Venetian ghèto, meaning 'foundry' (there was one near the site of that city's ghetto when it was founded in 1516).[6] According to various other theories it comes from:[7] the Hebrew get or ghet ('divorce document', 'deed of separation') the Yiddish gehektes ('enclosed') the Late Latin Giudaicetum ('Jewish enclave') the Italian borghetto ('little town, small section of a town'; diminutive of borgo, a word of Germanic origin; see borough) the Old French guect ('guard')" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghetto
I really enjoyed the book “Tacky” by Rax King. And I love the whole “death of good tastes” because it’s too subjective and honestly, judged. Don’t need that. Just have fun!
Interesting will always outweigh pretty for me. Anyone can be pretty, and many people can be mainstream beautiful, but it takes a thoughtful approach and a certain degree of authenticity to be genuinely interesting to look at. Tacky is an insult aimed at people who aren't interested in matching the instagram standard, by people who can't break free from it.
This could not be more perfectly stated! 💯👌🏼
Tacky is an insult used to describe someone as cheap looking or unappealing. Tacky does not necessarily mean interesting, neither does it imply that people use it out of insecurity
All though, I do have to point out that people have a subconscious drive to show more interest towards people they deem attractive: it is proven that conventionally attractive are more likely to succeed in life, since they are more easily able to get a job, create social contacts and are overall just more confident (Im generalizing of course). All of this isnt to say that it’s impossible for someone who isn’t as ‘attractive’ can’t do all these things as more: it just goes to show that, indeed, the more we become aware of our prejudices the more we are able to stop handling according to them.
I don’t think ANYONE can be pretty but anyone/anything can be beautiful. But beauty is subjective. And I guess sometimes beauty is also carrying a certain taste level with it. But taste is ALSO subjective. 🫠 where are we?! Lol 🫣
Real Real Real
Dolly Parton sums it up best: “It costs a lot to look this cheap.”
(Also, love the anecdote about her being inspired by the ‘town tramp’)
opposite of authentic, using recourses like money just to look specifically to cosplay the aesthetics of people who have less is gross and wasteful. the entire ethos of thrifting is to spend LESSSSSS while still looking just as good, if not better, than people participating in wasteful fast fashion
@@crunchysalmonswhilst the behaviour of spending a lot to "cosplay" a certain aesthetic may be inauthentic to you the example of Dolly Parton the original commenter used is someone who contributes greatly to the wider community and could be considered to be someone who is greatly authentic :)
20:39
Dude how are you everywhere
@@crunchysalmonsDolly Parton is from extreme poverty. She's not "cosplaying" anything. She's dressing in a way she genuinely finds beautiful. Its actually complete bs to call her "unauthentic" if you know anything about her.
I guess we're supposed to be mad just because she made it and had a succesful career. 🙄 Guessing you also know nothing about her extensive charity work specifically aimed to help people living in poverty.
Spot on comparison to the concept of ‘hood’ prom. Those kids plan and show real creativity but get no credit
16 year olds spending lots of money and renting limos to go to a school prom? meanwhile the alt kids all skipped prom and used that money to rent a place and to throw an art show. ghetto prom is tacky and trashy
Agreed
@@feji88 amen! And let’s be real! How many times in an average person’s life are they going to get to go all-out for a big, formal bash?? Many, many children are not lucky enough to grow up having birthday parties and grad parties. Most new moms don’t get to have baby showers. Bridal showers, bachelor/bachelorette parties, weddings…. while seemingly common, the reality is that most people around the world do NOT get to experience lavish parties and events that celebrate life. Whereas with prom, that’s a more accessible life event seeing as most schools have it as part of normal extra curricular programs. And the cost of venue, food, etc. is split up amongst the whole class and whatever the school pitches in, if anything. As opposed to the host (ie: bride, etc) usually bearing all of the financial responsibility. As long as going full send doesn’t put them in financial straits, I say go for it!!!
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
@@Chewtubehuskyhouse❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
I am absolutely an emo white girl LMAO, but I feel like I literally noticed in REAL TIME the same girls who called the Spanish/ Latina girls “tacky” for their look, now rock the same shit repackaged as a “clean girl aesthetic” when i remember chunky gold jewelry, slicked back low buns, minimal but feature defining makeup, and athlesire being a token of “trashy” or “ghetto” as well…. When black or brown girls did it 😑. I am not a trend follower myself, I’ve been the same emo fuck since I was 12 LMAO I just wish more people could form their own identities instead of copy and pasting whatever is trending with the masses.
This is spot on omg. And it’s becoming even worse now. Especially on TikTok we’re seeing the clean girl evolve into the “sade girl” or “Kendrick Lamar girl” but it’s just the appropriation and repackage of black and brown and Latin culture. It’s so irritating
Literally or just another aspect of a Latinas culture is the frilly avantgarde bows and ribbons in our hair, braids, embroidered cotton dresses, fuck even la Virgen de Guadalupe used for aesthetic purposes just to get tossed away and forgotten once summer/ the trend is over.
@@kristentaylor4921WHAT IS A KENDRICK LAMAR GIRL 😭😭
@@zesty6781 I really can’t even tell youlmao it may be a “sade” girl who wears timbs and puffer jackets?😭
@@kristentaylor4921A Sade girl sounds like Mary J Blidge from the 90s. 😂
For me, Chappell Roan reclaiming tacky is similar to how queer folks are reclaiming gay, queer, etc.. Those were words used to look down upon people and now it’s being celebrated and embraced as an identity. I do agree that only certain folks will be celebrated for being tacky vs looked down upon.
She’s bringing camp back
Her stile remind me my favourite Sofia Coppola movies and 2000s in general. I like it
The queer and lgbt situation is more complicated
Gay people have always claimed "tacky" though. It's called camp. I thought we knew this?
As a non-american whose idea of prom is like the one you see in movies since we don't do those here, I am absolutely flabercasted by how amazing those "hood" proms look. Like they have entire statement outfits in a certain theme! It looks so much more fun and interesting than the basic prom.
like one of them even had the cinderella's pumpkin carriage????
i’m american and honestly shocked too. teenagers growing up are actually inspired by the prom scenes that you’d see in movies. it never really was an extravagant thing before the movie scenes. that’s where kids got the ideas to get limos and wear over the top dresses.
I’m genuinely not sure if the oversized mic in the frame is a meta commentary on tacky or not.
I'll let that be a mystery hahaha
@@amandamaryanna that's as good an answer as one could ever hope for :D
You are a queen for that I was so distracted by that the whole time
@@amandamaryannaI love the mic it’s like telling us in the most in your face way that what your saying should be listened to
isnt it crazy that even just “looking” poor has become too expensive and is some kinda fucking status symbol now. idk
yea it’s weird and it’s not being genuine
Its insane.
similar to late Rococo on rich romantizing the lower class, cottage clothing started with Marie Antoinette's small cottage village. Yes, it's again about classism as the podcaster stated. Trend setters are unfortunately rich and if rich sees a clothing style as bad then it's bad but if they actually try on those clothes and other people gets influenced on this "artistic touch" (lmao) then it's a trend
that's how it works on cultures that has hierarchy unfortunately, that's why I'm proud of my culture that actually has no hierarchy historically and my people were against it unlike Europeans (which Europeans of US aka so called as "whites" in US tend to set things too, just like mainland Europeans)
Hiii! I just found your channel. If you don’t mind, I think it would be better if you could move your mic a little lower so we can fully see your lips when you speak. I realized reading the lips help me understand the words bettee and faster. But anyway, you don’t have to listen to me 😂😂 Just a suggestion.
@@thereserose9123That's a good suggestion but just so you know this comment is under a reply lol!
“If you don’t know who she is, get more gay friends.” 💀
no cuz I'm queer and 90% of my friends are queer and I just started hearing her name like just week and I listen to a shit ton of queer artists 😭😭
Glamourizing Tacky is Actually really Fierce if you think of it 💀☁️🤍
I think another thing that bothers me when it comes to people being hateful (essentially racist and classist) towards Black, Indigenous, and other young poor kids who go all out for prom, is that there's this encouragement for creativity, but once these kids express their creativity and have fun with their version of extravagance, it's "tacky and therefore unimaginative" Like how does that work??
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
I have been WAITING for the soulless clean girl era to end and I’m so glad we’re experimenting again although sadly aesthetics are mainly about turning identity into a consumerist pastime. In 2021 a girl made a TikTok predicting future social trends and said society tends to swing like a pendulum, and we’ll start embracing messy eyeliner again and I’m so glad her words finally came true! Only makes it better that I’ve been a hardcore Charlie xcx fan for a few years also
I think the perfect blend of both aesthetics is Lilly Allen’s recent style❤😊
God I hated that clean girl look. I am an older millennial and grew up during the Emo, hipster Instagram girl era where people had some style to them so obviously I didn't get the "I am a clean girl influencer, I live in a constant state of ambient neon lighting". vibe thing LoL
Grew up in 1st gen Cuban in a multi-racial, but pretty much Latino, environment and I'm also gay and my first gay friends were Latin and Black. I can absolutely tell you these cultures have rich camp traditions because they also have long queer lineages in them. Mainstream gay culture has pretty much however coopted a lot of POC camp (particularly that of Black Queer Folks) and then the mainstream sees a white face attached to camp expression. As imperfect as Drag Race can be I am glad the head of a big source of contemporary queer camp is a black man.
Also those proms reminded me of many a quinceañera which were often big outlandish events with rehearsals and choreo. I was in one and it was a whole production ... and even as a kid we all knew quinceañeras were "tacky" but I think it's become a beloved Latin camp symbol, inspiring Hispanic drag queens all over the world.
Beautifully stated
The whole idea of the modern prom is camp. Kids going to a ballroom dance party and playing pretended adults. Its funny to me that people would dog on campy prom. That's the whole point so have fun.
Can you translate this in less slang terms? 😅 I'm so lost on what camp or tackle actually is
Camp is like over the top, theatrical, tacky, overexaggerated, @weirddd469
@@weirddd469 they’re basically just saying that they’re confused by people making fun of the modern prom idea because it’s fun and over exaggerated and that’s what people have been asking for lately.
I've never thought of Chappel Roan as tacky and it shocked me a bit that she calls herself that. She's always been just ...too clean and preplanned almost to be truly tacky. Camp, sure, but when i think of tacky i think of people like Snooki (true definer of the 2000s aesthetic). What chappel wears in the examples of her being 'tacky' is rly to me just met gala camp theme shit imo. It feels like every bit of what she does is too obviously meticulously planned to the last detail to be truly tacky.
i agree. tacky is sloppy and disorganized, camp is ridiculous and fun
i agree 😭 i always felt insecure about being/been called tacky so seeing a person in a very well thought out outfit and makeup just too big makes me thing if Thats tacky what am i 😭
snooki is closer to how i feel and they look amazing doing it too, the whole 2000's culture and aesthetic issss tacky in a cool way
Idk that that's everyone's contemporary definition of tacky though. Often people view it as a synonym to words like "gaudy," which can be meticulous or messy depending on the context. But I also disagree with the supposed messiness of ppl like Snooki, she wasn't dressing that way bc of a lack of planning, she actually looked exactly the way she planned to and was following very specific style codes of her aesthetic.
Yeah, she can be as "tacky" as she wants because there's no risk there, it feels more cool and authentic when the person doing it isn't topping charts haha
Tacky is whatever upper-class people viewed as poor people cosplaying as rich. Chappell and Snooki both fit the original definition of tacky, a synonym for “gaudy” as someone else stated. The definition has changed over time, to be more of a “style” (especially in the 2000s) but that doesn’t make Chappell wrong in defining herself that way, she’s using a definition which predates the mcbling-associated style
I'm curious what you consider "pulling off tacky well" because that almost sounds to me like there's a correct and incorrect way to be tacky. In this context, I'd say rather you appreciate the way they utilize the aesthetic or not.
That said, agreed with all other points!
I'd imagine it's refers to how good a person is at complementing their clothes and making a cohesive outfit.
It still instills a bit of fear on people that want to try a new style, especially with the preasure on tik tok to look perfect? Idk, but it's an understandable take.
Maybe it’s just looking confident in it?
I think it’s whether it’s about the intent of the individual that determines whether the tacky in question is correct or incorrect. Tacky in a intentional, “i’m being subversive on purpose” kind of way (such as Chappel) is seen as correct in this context precisely because Chappel is curating a tacky aesthetic which implies that there’s some sort of genius behind it. I suppose the incorrect way would be someone who is not tacky on purpose and is not necessarily trying to reclaim anything. It is simply how they dress and there’s not much thought behind it. Although the visual end result may be the same, the former is regarded as correct because the person “pulling it off well” is being tacky on purpose.
“a lack of restraint rather than a concerted effort.” that is SO well-put.
I always think of John Waters when I think of tacky. He said something along the the lines of 'There's such a thing as bad bad taste and good bad taste. In order to understand bad taste one must have very good taste.'
and ironically i feel john waters is such a highly tasteful, classy man that understands good “bad” taste
There's also an element of queer identity that comes with CAMP, which the black community is less welcoming towards in general. I agree with your other comments though, amazing video.
I'm 41 and Amanda is the only reason I know about anything now. 😅
I loved your closing question: "Can the concept of tacky be separated from elitism or classism"? ...I really don't think so, in short
I think the idea of what is 'good' will always be rooted in what appeals to the upper echelon of people and as long as that divide exists so will the smearing campaigns of less fortunate persons trying their best
Great video ♡
i dont like chapell that much, however i get the hype. but i love her dedication to the craft. its something i try to embrace too. i always gravitate towards persons who dont give a damn about trends
What is it that you don't really like about chappell??
@aussiefurbymogwaifan6621 i should have said, "Not that i don't like her, i don't find her interesting." her music is very nice. maybe it needs to grow on me
I LOVE the extravagant Prom looks and entrances! Let’s be real! How many times in an average person’s life are they going to get to go all-out for a big, formal bash?? Many, many children are not lucky enough to grow up having birthday parties and grad parties. Most new moms don’t get to have baby showers. Bridal showers, bachelor/bachelorette parties, weddings…. while seemingly common, the reality is that most people around the world do NOT get to experience lavish parties and events that celebrate life. Whereas with prom, that’s a more accessible life event seeing as most schools have it as part of normal extra curricular programs. And the cost of venue, food, etc. is split up amongst the whole class and whatever the school pitches in, if anything. As opposed to the host (ie: bride, etc) usually bearing all of the financial responsibility. As long as going full send doesn’t put them in financial straits, I say go for it!!!
Just happy to see the mainstream starting to break away from the monotony that Swift's chokehold on popular culture has subjected us to for the last half decade.
i think a lot of hate comes on hispanic and black women because a lot of things that are very creative and out of box on nails, lashes and clothing and so many other fashion related things have been seen as ghetto but if a “creative” such as julia fox or kim or kyle it’s seen as high fashion so i do totally agree with this video i think tacky is in the matter of perception of the on looker
Most likely those “creative” examples you gave use it as an aesthetic in the same way as a Beyoncé or Jlo would and they won’t be called those things because people know that to an extent it’s a look and not who they are. It’s different when a creative with a polished background takes on a look because there is some separation in who they are and the story they’re telling. There’s an understanding that this is intentional and they also will go about it in different manor that someone who isn’t “refined” . It’s not really about race but values. They will trash a trashy rich white person too. (Ex. Ke$ha).
One is embracing an aesthetic, the other is revealing who they are. Take that as you will…🤷🏾♂️
can u move ur mic down just a LITTLE BIT pleaseeee🥺
next time!! Sorry!!
Thanks for the history of tacky, I never knew it had one. Its a word you know and tend to not think about.
Huh. Coming from the LGBTQ community, (disclosure, I’m white,) this is the first time I’ve heard someone talk about “camp” as not Black-inclusive. And…not cause I’m sheltered. lol
The gays might not be solely responsible for camp, but they certainly perfected it. With a MAJOR contribution coming from the NYC drag/ballroom culture of the late 70’s early 80’s a la “Paris is Burning.” Which was almost entirely Black and Latino. Like, I’m sure some white folks found their way in, but they would’ve stood out. Camp (and Drag) would not exist in its current form without this contribution, which was amazingly (and shockingly) ushered into accepted popular culture by RuPaul in the 90’s. Younger Millennials and Gen Z might only be familiar with RuPaul from “Drag Race,” but “elder millennials” and Gen X have a vivid memory of the boundaries they originally pushed.
To sum up, not all camp is drag, but all drag is camp. While not all drag is Black, drag as we know it would not exist without Black Queer culture. And because camp as we know it would NOT be defined as it is in this video without drag, camp is inseparable from the “Hood.” Personally, I consider “Hood Proms” as a fabulous example of high camp. I actually got my degree in education, and got my first job teaching HS in an 80% Black and Latino district. Yes, it was my first time living full time as an ethnic minority. And yes, my kids initially gave me A LOT of shit for being a young, white girl, straight outta college, completely in over my head. 😂
I worked my butt off that first year trying to live up to the expectations I was handed, and somewhere in the process I lost my focus just enough to realize my kids actually liked me a lot. Don’t get me wrong, it was still A LOT. But the next 4 years (until making a major cross-country move,) were an absolute joy. Especially that first spring, when I was a chaperone for prom.
I remember my own prom. And frankly, it wasn’t much to write home about. But I remember watching my kids get out of their cars in this absolute glamour of dare I say…camp. ESPECIALLY the boys. Oh, my sweet boys in baby blue tuxes with ruffled shirts and white canes. At 23, I’d never seen anything like it. (My immediate thought was, “Wow, we totally did prom wrong. 😂😂😂)
I never knew the root of the word “tacky.” I also just realized I haven’t listened to any of Chappell Roan’s interviews, because my immediate visual description of her has been “camp.” The word tacky never crossed my mind. But, after listening to her and especially listening to the old Dolly Parton comments, it made sense.
I desperately love that you brought McMansion Hell into this conversation, as her blog has given me breathless tears of joys for over a decade. But it’s also fascinating, because it made me realize that’s the only context I’ve ever used the word in. Quite possibly, because I grew up in a working-class Italian-American family/community in CT. The “patron state of old money.” (Not a club I ever belonged to, but one I was well familiar with.) And yeah, I’ve hustled for every cent I’ve ever made. I also hustled my way into the fine arts through a bunch of prep school kids growing up. While not having, “money,” I can confidently say I have a fairly objective understanding of things like balance, design, and color.
Upon witnessing McMansions, (and the inhabitants thereof,) my first thought was always, “My God, if you’re gonna do that, someone else deserves your money.” But here’s the catch. I’ve always been able to distinguish the difference between THAT, and camp. Again to quote Queen Dolly, “It costs a lot to look this cheap.” Which is beautifully tongue in cheek because the thing is, Dolly Parton has NEVER looked “cheap.” If you take into account my above mentioned principles of balance, design, and color, Dolly Parton is NOT a McMansion of a woman. She’s a Frank Lloyd Wright with rhinestones.
That’s the essence of camp. Camp has architectural principles and rules. Which is why there’s good camp vs failed attempts, and the difference is easy to identify. Just like the different between a brilliant work of modern architectural design, and a giant dump of bricks and mismatched windows pretending to be a house. The vivid, multicultural, world of drag understands those design principles better than anyone else, because they wrote the goddam textbook.
So, here’s my final thought. If “tacky” was originally derogatory for poor, white, southerners, and “ghetto” currently derogatory for poor, urban, PoC…Then “camp” is the art of synthesizing both and elevating them through a finely tuned lens of balance, design, and color.
What you said towards the end about how white skin suggests self-awareness in being over the top while black people are perceived as being over the top out of ignorance, aka “tacky” hit the nail on the head with why “hood proms” receive hate. Seriously a great explanation.
Great video! I think you really nailed the way that I've thought about camp vs tacky, which is awareness of the silliness. So much of our culture mocks people for sincerity, which is really unfortunate. I appreciate all the nuance you brought to this topic, too
Thank you!!
the way i hadn't heard of you before but one of your videos randomly popped up on my fyp today and i binge watched you all morning, then to click out and get a brand new video??
I think you’re spot on in your commentary. My only addition skinny. A skinny girl and an average sized girlie can wear the same thing and on one it’ll be praised and the other called tacky for sure. It’s been on my mind a lot watching love island USA this season
Lol got a brat ad before the video 😂
What is the ad like?
The huge leaves, big mic and stacked books were on purpose and I love it
I love Amanda's voice, its so calming
pretty sure the first video i ever saw of yours was the mcmansion one. just checked and it's been three years! wild.
time flies!!
I also think that for the majority of us “regular” people, who will most likely never get a chance to experience events where you can dress up in your absolute best (be that gowns or suits or outlandish outfits), prom, bar mizvahs, quinceañeras, weddings, ext. are the only event in your life were you will have the opportunity to do go all out. we don’t have the luxury of red carpets, award shows, met galas or fashion weeks to explore with extravagance and glamour. Especially when you work a 9 to 5 with a dress code and the only times when you can explore your personal style are in going out to clubs, bars, or other social events.
really great video!! gave me a lot to think about !
I was a theater kid also in a small Midwest town and often made fun of for my non “trendy” style. I wasn’t interested in wearing uggs with blinged jeans and some basic pullover…because everyone else wore that. Little did I know, I was ahead of my time. Seeing Chappell Roan truly embrace her style and persona warms my heart❤
love how u connected everything here
As someone who grew up in a 98% white suburb, but now teaches HS in a much much more diverse part of the same state- I LOVE the camp. I look back at my prom photos and go “damn I really just look boring, I look like everyone else” EXCEPT one prom I went to where I wore a jumpsuit instead of a dress and lemme tell you I got JUDGED FOR THAT! I ask to chaperone prom every year now because I love seeing how creative these kids are and how unapologetic they are about going all out for prom, it’s so much FUN! And isn’t that what it’s about? Anyway, this video was AWESOME and I’m so glad I found your channel! 🎉
So in orign "tacky" is like how the term "dandy" or a "fop" is back in the olden days. A fop is someone who wears too many things just to look good to a certain crowd of other rich people; "keeping up appearances" like it was a sport.
I have learnt so much in this video.
this mic is huge sis omg 😭🤣
Brilliant video! 🎉 That part you made at the end about campness and perceived self awareness is so true i think, sadly!
Great job! I always loved that song “little boxes” cool to know the context.
This is a fantastic video essay!
I loved your in depth linguistics history on the word tacky and your link to the Little Boxes song, which has such a great and powerful social critique.
Great work. You do really great research and I loved ur analysis. Gladly subscribing
Also loved the succession reference
Also the decision to place the old money quote over the Lana and Asap MV, great reference!
Also LOVE your set design/ thumbnail/outfit for this video - the colors are fabulous
thank you so much!
if anyone wants further viewing on this topic contrapoints’ video on opulence is a great companion piece! even talks about mcmansions
okayy this was the best video essay ever
Resisting the urge to use the typical comments section standpoint framing of “As an XYZ,” but this is making me reflect on the concept of tackiness as defined/expressed/condemned by Dominicans and their diaspora, specifically, with class status so explicitly tied to racial disavowal.
speak ur truth! that's interesting
This was such a good video. All the references you made were so thought out and well researched. Thank you!
ive also noticed this in rap with new rappers like Nettspend, Xaviersobased, & Yhapojj. Especially xavier, he really embraces tackiness and makes what many people would call “bad music”
Thats been the underground sytle since what feels like forever
The way this video was SO GOOD
You do these videos so well. All of them
please amanda, please move the mic 😭 why is it right in the middle i can barely see you behind the giant thing
this is so unrelated but your voice is so nice like in the least creepy way possible its comforting
This is such a good video. Thank you.
The click bate, thinking you were gonna talk about Charlie XCX 🤨
loved this one!! thank you Amanda
This was such a fun, informative video!
i don't understand the fuss in the comments about chappen roan calling herself tacky like bffr
thank you for this. very good points.
omg i didn't know what tacky was but i think there's a word in my native language that has exactly the same usage and a similiar history in my country aswell it is starting to have a more positive usage and that's so cool
Beautiful essay. It is making me think about a lot of things. Thanks for making it. Stay vibrant.
I LOVE KATE WAGNER!! im so glad you mentioned mcmansionhell :))
its CAMP babyyyy
This is my first vid on your channel and I’m subbbed!!! Really only your content! The close mic is the cherry on top 🙏😆
"put on some wings fly away" 😂😂
Your videos are so amazing, you are genuinely so brilliant.
An Amanda video about Chapell 🏅🏅🏅
Nicki Minaj is soo camp/tacky! I thought of her instantly
I love being tacky. It's so much more beautiful and interesting and unique than not. Not to say you can't be all those without a hint of tackiness, because you definitely can! But like....Trends are just that: Trends. Ever changing. So if I wanna dress like it's still 2013 tumblr, who's gonna stop me? Nobody. I just take inspo from anything I want to and smash it together and that's fine. Also, as a certified trailer trash girlie, I feel it's in my blood to intentionally look messy sometimes. I could look polished, but why would I when tacky and trashy is so much more fun? Sometimes it's carefully tailored and planned trashy, so it looks put together, but it's still tacky and trashy. 😂
so well researched! great video
Had to click for Chappell
As a kid hearing “ur not supposed to wear white after Labor Day” annoyed me. Even if it was a joke. I’m ready to watch this commentary. It’s like I get to have convos with ppl who talk about things I notice or sometimes may not notice but is still true
i feel like as long as something is authentic to you or your aesthetic it literally cannot be tacky. it’s only tacky if it’s not true to you imo
Girl the microphone in the shot 💀
was looking for this
Otherwise a good setup!
It’s cool microphone
I commented this under another video that was discussing prom in the Black community and you basically shared my exact same thoughts. Black people are some of the most preppy and campiest people, yet it always gets labeled differently. There is still this underlying belief in society that Black people think differently from other races of people. It’s like slavery has physically ended but people still mentally haven’t fully accepted that Black people are human just like everyone else and think the same way as everyone else. It’s like we expect every version of something to look the same for every race. Whiteness does not dictate nor define definitions.
wow can't believe ghetto was originally used for the jewish community. amazing vid!
the specific place it was used for originally was the Jewish neighborhood in Amsterdam, it's originally a Dutch word
@@perfectallycromulent The first Ghetto was in Venice, unlikely that it's Dutch. "The etymology of the word is uncertain, as there is no agreement among etymologists about the origins of the Venetian language term as it pertains to a neighborhood. One theory of the word can be traced to a special use of the Venetian ghèto, meaning 'foundry' (there was one near the site of that city's ghetto when it was founded in 1516).[6]
According to various other theories it comes from:[7]
the Hebrew get or ghet ('divorce document', 'deed of separation')
the Yiddish gehektes ('enclosed')
the Late Latin Giudaicetum ('Jewish enclave')
the Italian borghetto ('little town, small section of a town'; diminutive of borgo, a word of Germanic origin; see borough)
the Old French guect ('guard')" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghetto
no offense but i think this is common knowledge
WAKE UP EVERYONE! AMANDA POSTED😭
put on some wings, fly away 🦋✨
Tacky is subjective. Roan calls herself tacky, I call her unoriginal and blah!
Woah really cool video, I learned a lot!
Yooooo, the strong towns citation!!!!!
I really enjoyed the book “Tacky” by Rax King. And I love the whole “death of good tastes” because it’s too subjective and honestly, judged. Don’t need that. Just have fun!
I think doja falls into this category as well
such a great video!!
great essay. thank you!
YESSS SPOT ON 💙
Off-topic, but I love your voice:)
Great video!
i know this is off topic but i cant tell if that mic is real or if she edited it in…
hey babe off topic from the video but I love your hair! what did you say to your braider for this look? ❤
I did it myself! I used Marley hair
Are they braids?? Or three stand twists? I may do my hair like that too 😂
The diy stuff is also super punk, so many intersections
hey i'm from sf and wanted to let you know that daly city is pronounced like "day-lee" city. love your video :)
a part of me hated to be the 70th like
Really good video!!!
i believe it is called camp
Love this vid… is there a better place you can put ur mic???
i think that was part of the video
We’re basically back in the baroque era and I’m here for it…
chappel roan is in draaaaaag yeeees