I love how your opinion changes throughout the video! Just goes to show that you go into each video with an open mind aren't going in to the review with your mind already made up. Cheers
i was waiting for a comment on the accuracy he's a top shooter 50cent groups now one could throw the match by arrow placement to some degree he's that good but his commentary does support that maybe question lol
Thanks for put the video up, It's great to see an honest point of view which is so hard to find these days on you tube. Wish your shop was in England .
Victory VForce Sport arrows are my five dollar arrows. I like the looks of those VAPs though. For most people the difference in a 0.003 and a 0.006 straightness is unnoticeable at 18 m. I am still improving, but I don't see the day in my future where I will outperform my equipment. I have also discovered that if I stay about three years behind, I can afford to shoot flagship bows for entry level pricing.
I am a beginner archer, been going about 4 weeks(?). Absolutely love it!! I bought a cheapo starter kit, I reckon I got it from you guys! Can get a pretty good group at 15 meters. I started at about 8, and every couple of days I go out another couple meters. I don't care if it's not a very far distance. I am in it for the enjoyment. As soon as I look through that peepsight, The whole world stops! I do hope I can get out to about 40 or 50 meters one day though. I think I might need to upgrade my gear for that range though.
I have only broken 2 vap in a year one went through the target and hit a pole and blow up the other got stuck in the deer and the deer landed on it. THANK YOU. I bought the vap after watching your review on them.
It really depends on what you spend on your bow, $400-$500 $5 arrows are fine. If you spend $1000-$1600 get the better arrows. It’s like having a Chevy Malibu running regular and a corvette running premium fuel.
I totally agree, 100%. I just started archery, and started with a $299 Bear Salute, and $6 Easton Aftermath arrows. Tried a loaner set of Easton X10s. Not a shred of difference. Turns out, archer skill is by far the biggest factor. LOL
Love your videos. Totally enjoy all of them! Just wondering...Gold Tip Hunters have higher profile vanes for increased broadhead stability for hunting. The VAP and Velocity arrows had low profile vanes for target shooting and less wind resistance. I'm a bowhunter, and I'd love to see you do a video shooting various hunting broadheads with Blazer vanes versus low profile target vanes. I like my targets to bleed...just saying'!
Just getting back into archery after a couple decades away. I bought 12 carbon arrows off Amazon just for practice. I shoot a 55 pound recurve and these cheap $36 Arrows are shooting straight and are very durable.
Yea I agree. He seems so unprecociius and an cool person to shoot arrows with, and have as a friend. HOWEVER, because he is an business owner "and" practices Archery, I doubt he has much time for an life/friends unless you work for him. 🏹🤠👍
Bit late but for future reference the clicking sounds like a worn bearing under load. If you remove the load (string) you should be able to inspect the pulley / bearing and find lateral or rotational play, or some degree of friction. The clicking is usually the first sign, followed closely by increased noise. Thats time to replace before it will likely become noticeable play under load and / or failure. Bushes can make a similar noise but its usually more of a knock than a click. I'm not familiar with compound bows but i am an ex ford technician. It looks like those pulleys will have some form of bearing and/or possibly bushings, those parts are supposed to take the wear. If not bearings or bushes, the problem could lie in the shaft or the pulley itself but it's less likely unless the materials are too flimsy. Hope that's of some help in future.
This video doesn't prove much. You used a different tune between the two shafts, so it's not an apples to apples comparison -- you haven't isolated the shaft price as a variable in your test, so you can't say with any confidence that price is the cause of your results. The expensive arrows are clearly well-tuned. But the wider group on the cheaper arrows could easily be because you haven't tuned them as precisely as the expensive set. Also, you knowing which arrows you're shooting could easily boost or hinder your confidence, affecting the results.
It was about the grouping, not the tune and cheap arrows simply dont tune as well because of how they are made and the inconsistency within the shafts ,it was clear to see the didnt hit as tighter group and clearly suit a new archery who needs to spend time on form . I think it was a good video on the subject .
8:47 - I was watching your stabiliser against the vents on the (whatever that was there), and I could tell that shot was off: You were one full vent slot lower than your original aim point. LOL
I agree. Thanks to the "stimulus checks" I have an great bow (supra focus XL) but currently in tight budget so, I cut down cheap carbon arrows, use a whisker biscuit, and an power dot hunting sight for my rig and am loving it. 🏹🤠👍
Exactly! I also do the same. I fine tune everyone of my cheap arrows and have the same results as my carbon Express maxima reds. It's all about details. I actually have some super cheap arrows from China that I use for hunting now because I found them to be a bit stronger as far as breaking. More expensive is not always better.
same hear i shoot mid grade gold tip arrows out of a dozen shafts i might get 2 that are not match worthy. there are a million things a person can do too get better results. build a little higher foc spin and cut the bad sections off the ends spine check them that is what i do. even out too a hundred yards you really dont see much of an advantage. i shoot every day and honestly say i shoot better because i can afford too push myself too make harder shots. if i was worried about breaking an arrow i might not push my limits as often. as long as it can fill the x ring groups dont matter as much.
Wait, you use a skinnier arrow for target shooting? Don’t you want a thicker arrow since target scores are calculated by how far the arrow shaft cut into the paper? A wider arrow gives you in advantage. Skinnier arrows are mostly for penetration.
There are several reasons for skinnier. 1) less time tuning in the arrows from indoor and out. 2) Deflections. If you're shooting at the same single (as opposed to the three or 5's targets), there's less chance of a bad scored shot due to a deflection. 3) Inside out. I know in NFAA, if there's a tie, they will judge for inside outs (that's when the arrow isn't touching lines and is in the dead center. A "nothing but net" shot.
I have used Switch Cane arrows and a home made primitive bow of Cedar. I have won tournaments with this equipment. If a shaft is solid with no flaws and fletched properly with the proper weight point the bow doesn't care how much it cost. It will shoot as straight as the shooter wants.
I have heard that noise before, it is micro fractures in the limb. I had a Martan Firecat do that in my bottom limb and the bow locked at full draw due to the crack and slight twisting of the cam.
I shoot carbon and am constantly thinking "is this the day I blow this arrow through my hand." I am thinking of switching to aluminum. I should also mention that atm I am shooting Gold Tip Hunter 340 and they are pretty nice and as far as I am concerned, very consistant.
Laat Dovahkin I wouldn’t worry about it, I once made the mistake of shooting an arrow until it exploded on me and if you have any clue what your doing you’ll throw the arrow away well before that happens, I had multiple cracks all the way down my arrow and didn’t even know that an arrow could do that, let’s just say it was a learning experience😂
Hey Steven, I just ordered another set of Victory V.A.P. 800 Spine V3 arrow shafts, which will be cut to 28" inches. I 'am going to custom build them with 110 grain points, and nock pin bushings, and pin nocks. Which I will be utilizing with my Junxing F 155 bows, one is Blue with 30 LB. Limbs, and the other is Black with 36 LB. Limbs. Thank you for sharing all your great insights to the sport of Archery!!!!!!!
@archery supplies Could you please tell me the name of those five dollar arrows again please? I found it difficult to catch the name. And do you still stock them or similar in performance. Were they "Fletchwood blazer vanes". I cannot see them on your website (URL in video description) Thanks.
I was shooting VAP Elites(V1) before you, and still shooting them. Use the TKO's for indoor. Just love the look of them. Now hurry up with the Evoke review before I buy a Hoyt.
As for arrows. I agree. I always suggest shooting decent to mid grade arrows but as for expensive arrows most everyone is wasting their money. Cheap arrows have there place. As an experienced target and hunting archer. I set up and tune bows anyone who tunes bows will agree. You cant shoot different spined arrows with different weight tips and different lengths and compare there groups with any certainty. If you're bow is tuned to a 350 spine 28 inch shaft with 120g tip. Then you shoot a 400 spine (weaker spine) at 31 in shaft (makes a more weeker spine) there will be much more deflection in your arrow to compare groups with any certainty. Get the cheap arrows in the correct spine and cut them down. Put a new insert in them with same tip as yours the shoot and compare. But i do agree with some of your points so thanks for the content. And keep shooting
I've bought VAP sports by your reccomendation, loving them and only broke a few because the point bent inside the shaft. I switched to Carbon express pin points and havent broken one since.
I used to shoot the cheap 3 dollar Allen arrows from walmart and would go through them like crazy, they broke all the time and weren't very precise. I switched to Easton Axis Traditionals and they shot amazingly. I only broke one in a period of 3 years using them when I was shooting in the house and someone knocked on the front door, which startled me, and I slapped the trigger on my release and sent an arrow through the closet door where it broke in half. I stopped shooting in the house after that, but they're good tough arrows, and I'll never cheap out on arrows again after seeing the difference. I've even shot those arrows into rocks while hunting rabbits and they were perfectly fine. Good arrows make all the difference.
We buy those $5 arrows in bulk for our club and pay about half that. I wouldn't shoot one through my compounds but for the Genesis and lightweight recurves we supply on open days they are fine. The inserts do come out as you say but not a real problem with our targets. There are other Chinese shafts available that are much higher quality and compare more than favourably with some of the cheaper name brand arrows for hunting and at a much more affordable price. Good video.
The way it appeared to me was that the $5 arrows had less flex so when the arrows hit together there was more deflection causing the second arrow to hit off to the side of the arrow in the target. With the more expensive arrows they appeared to flex and bend enough for the shot arrow to squeeze in right next to the arrow already in the target. Just an observation
I don't know what you're hunting down there that you don't lose arrows, but if I shoot a Missouri Whitetail that arrow is going straight through and I'm probably not even going to look hard for it. If I do, I'm more interested in the broadhead than the arrow shaft for reuse. For competition once you get good enough to think about winning rather than competing for fun, sure, spend the bank on the gear. For the rest of us, arrows are disposable.
I just shoot Avalon tyro for recurve and Avalon Classic for compound. I've only been shooting for a couple weeks though, so I can't see the difference. But according to everyone I've talked to they're not bad arrows at all. They're 5 euros a piece, and fly as straight as you'd need it to. It's really more about the lack of pins, and the carbon not being made that well. But overall for something like 3D archery they're perfect expendable arrows. Also they are able to be cut down, so they fit my bows perfectly.
I'm just a beginner at archery but I'm not new to the sport of target shooting. I would think archery equipment is subject to the same rules as other target shooting sports: Cheap is a bit of a lottery but often better than we would like to acknowledge with the good stuff in hand. There is also another truth to these things: Good stuff isn't necessary that expensive to produce in this day and age.
I shoot $3 arrows from a cheap bow in my backyard . It makes getting a bullseye all the more rare and exciting. I have made a bow with fiberglass driveway markers and tape and shot an arrow I found in the park and was able to hit my target. Clearly not your ideal customer, but now I am wondering what I would do with a decent bow and set of arrows.? Maybe my habits are already to bad, Good thing I enjoy shooting my backyard target!
I think the point has been proven that a mid range decent arrow will shoot better than most people's abilities. If the noise hadn't totally distracted you the $5 arrow group would of been much better too! Obviously if you're an elite archer then buy the top quality but for beginners or intermediate archers mid range are sound enough
Ok, I´m outing as a newbei on archery... BUT: from my other experiences on shooting, even the cheap arrows form a extremely nice group on your target. Off the center maybe, but a good group after all. Could be up for weight/speed, length or balance of the arrows? Just curious...
At 20 yards, the difference will not be huge. The more expensive arrows, like he said, are spined more consistently and are straighter. Both of these make the arrow perform better at longer ranges. For a new archer, or one who is not an accomplished shooter, the difference could be unnoticeable but an accomplished archer will see a difference in group size and consistency. It may be a 9 or wide 10 instead of an X but it will be there. I don't recommend the CHEAP ones but mid range arrows are good enough for most archers and for hunting.
I come from the long range shooting world (.300 win mag to .408 cheytac) . Each shot of a round was $2 to $11. A day at the range was easily over $100. Archery does see a heck of a lot cheaper, yet I see people complaining.
Been using economy arrows for practice and recently went from the Tru Fire Sear release to the Stanislawski Blackjack good for me bad for arrows.Blasting up the economy arrows shooting groups went thru half a dozen in a couple days so now I have to pick different points to hit with each shot. The difference between the economy arrows I use ( roughly 60 usd per dozen in 350 spine) for practice and my good arrows (carbon express maxima blu rz) is marginal at 20 yards but step out to 30 yards and my economy arrows will hold maybe 2.5-3" groups the Blu Rz arrows will still stack, unfortunately do not have a spot where I can test the difference at 40 or 50 yards. That's with a Bowtech Carbon Knight 28.5" draw and roughly 75~lbs draw.
Interesting you say that pin nocks protect the arrow shaft, I shoot Easton ACE's and used to use pin nocks but found when I hit an arrow, the nock end split, the pin seemed to transfer the energy from the arrow hitting it into the shaft and split the carbon so I changed to using G nocks and I've yet to split a shaft even though I've hit the arrow with another, all that seems to happen is that I lose a G nock, much cheaper :-)
I have shot GoldTips for years and love them but they have never survived a kill. My groups at 60 yards look like your groups but I hand build and tune my arrows. I am shooting the Matthew Monster SLR8 set up for hunting. I have no clue how you can stand to shoot those long stabilizers.
They’re used by many of the best field archers the world over, mostly outdoor, but also indoors. They tune well and people often shoot their outdoor set up year round. 600 WA18 indoor rounds have been shot with fat and skinnies in the last year, so clearly both work well!
I shot primitive my last few year of following the club shoots and never felt handicapped? My homemade Osage bow and switch cane arrows won a lot of tournaments?
I wouldn't really go with dirt cheap arrows in my compound, but for hunting, the one unavoidably prevalent fact that stops me buying $50 arrows is pass-through and animal movement. The pump house of a deer is roughly fist sized, lungs even bigger, at some point a 2-4in group is simply good enough, and anything more is simply academic. Add in the failure to recover at least some percentage of pass throughs and misses, plus arrows that get thrashed if they don't pass through, it can get totally out of control with prices...I hunt to provide most of the red meat we eat, so keeping costs reasonable is important to me
Spending as much on arrows as on a quality bow. Nuts. edit: also not making much of a case for expensive arrows with that kind of groupings. If I'm seeing what I think I am, the grouping's are even better for the cheapos. edit: ok cheapos had worse grouping, thought the gold tips were the cheapos. Even so, non compound, cheapos seem just fine.
Ill admit.. i bought 12 cheap aluminium arrows and 12 cheap carbon arrows so i had somthing i could break without getting mad about it. Im new to archery so it was the best choice for me.. Once i learn how to shoot ofc ill buy mor expensive arrows. thats a given.. But i could see my self being thrown off archery if i had to throw 100/200$ at arrows that i broke within the first weeks.
I just got back into archery and made a similar choice. For a beginner like me the difference between a cheap arrow and expensive one is basically cosmetic. Once I get the hang of if a more expressive arrow will show a difference.
I bought bottom low end Easton genesis arrows ($4.99usd). I wanted to start with cheap arrows for the same reasons. They are so bad I was “pulp fictioning” the target. I shot with them for a week and was getting frustrated with the results. I upgraded to black eagle vintage carbon arrows($80/6) and it feels like I am shooting lasers.
Can you tell the difference with the straightness with your victory arrows? My bowtech wants me to get the Elites but I heard that you can't really tell the difference between the sports or the gamers. What are you thoughts. Thanks
It all depends on what your going to do. 70 meter Olympic, or 3D, or recreational. Nobody would ever spend the money for Olympic grade arrows for recreational/practice. Kind of common senseical.
For all the carbon arrows out there (and i have few dozens of different from some cheapest chinese up to Skylon Paragon - not so cheap chinese) for indoor i went for Easton X23 2315 shafts.
hi there I use xx75 GameGetter 500 for my recurve at 46 pound bow and I use a 44 poud recurve bow with x10 arrows at 380 and get very good result of the 2 types arrow that are match for shootibng indoor and now out door i used x 10 arrow fo the wind on the prairiea
I'm shooting 340 velocity xt at 29.75" with 130gr point and 20gr fact system weight out of my supra focus set at 61lbs, they shoot pretty good. They weigh 426gr, looking at the 350 VAP target gamer with a 140 point as my next arrow
.166 Dia??? Why is it that no one ever actually mikes the outside diameter of victory VAP arrows. They are .215 Dia. The inside diameter is .166 NOT the outside.
It is because the inside diameter remains constant and determines nock and point size. The outside diameter changes with spine, sometimes quite a lot. II is therefore a better reference
4mm/.166 or 4.2mm id..outside diameter, different spine different diameter but id still .166"..for an example..700 spine 4.2mm id, o.d 5.6mm, 600 spine o.d 5.7mm, the inside diameter still same..
I prefer the cheaper arrows, because it's not quite so bad when you're playing Horse with your dad & BiL and you send an arrow into the bush, or into a tree. That top group with the cheapie arrows is plenty good to drop a whitetail in my neck of the woods.
I shoot the new easton Carbon axis under armour and i have always 3 arrows out of ten that are going in the Seven or the eight and all the others are going into 9 or 10 How is that possible ?
Hi Steven, hope to find you well. Excellent video, I have a questio please on the junior side of shooters ie kids do victory have an arrow for them approx 24 to 25" draw and shouting at approx 28lbs and 32" respectively. Thry both shoot indoor and outdoor. If so any chance you can tell me which or if not what is the lowest spec of a shouter before they can get into a good carbon arrow. Money not really the issue here. Thanks in advance. Take care and look forward to your next instalment
Yes the same arrows as I shoot VAP sport in 1000spine with 80grain points. I would shoot the same arrow for everything. I'm shooting VAP for indoor, but I will try FAT arrows soon.
@@ArcherySuppliesLonsdale Many thanks my friend. I will get them ordered up. Didnt think they would do them for the kids. Not very good at reading these sort of charts. Just about manage the easton one. Maybe a short video on reading thr victory arrow charts maybe a good one for the future. Take care. X
Most shops can cut down the arrows for draw length and are happy get kids set up. Wife and my kids all shoot Bemans since they fall in roughly the same spine. I have found that my sons bow actually tuned and shoots a 28" shaft much better then his 24" draw/shaft.
As a hunter I can tell you 100% that you do lose your arrows, the arrows often break when the animal jerks and tries to run or you get pass through and the arrow keeps going and you never find them. Hell even had them fall on them and break them... Unless you aim for the head(which you should never do for anything bigger then a rabbit) its unavoidable.
$5 arrows are perfectly OK for beginners and intermediate archers, IF and WHEN the archer becomes more proficient then they can move up to EXPENSIVE ARROWS and a more EXPENSIVE bow, if they can afford it, too many suppliers tend to want to push EXPENSIVE equipment to start off with, and the cost for many hobbies can be prohibitive and can put people off from trying a new sport.
Ok I have a weird one. I find sometimes I shoot better with cheaper arrows. Hear me out. I shoot field, (unmarked distance 3d). When I've had expensive arrows as I've drawn up all that's running through my head is don't miss, don't lose/break this arrow etc etc, I panic and procede to smash my arrow (Easton superflight). I switched to maximal edges, a midrange-budget arrow. Now when I draw up I'm more calm and found I actually enjoyed the sport more. Did I miss an arrow? Oh well! Did one smash, meh no Biggie.
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I love how your opinion changes throughout the video! Just goes to show that you go into each video with an open mind aren't going in to the review with your mind already made up. Cheers
i was waiting for a comment on the accuracy he's a top shooter 50cent groups now one could throw the match by arrow placement to some degree he's that good but his commentary does support that maybe question lol
I was thinking the same thing, and why I trust him enough to make my first bow purchase through his shop
"Shoot expensive arrows" proceeds to blow the bullseye out with cheap arrows.
Every millimeter counts when competing in target archery. And hunting. Well maybe not every millimeter for hunting.
Thanks for put the video up, It's great to see an honest point of view which is so hard to find these days on you tube. Wish your shop was in England .
VAP Victory Armour Piercing, i love them, I cant thank you enough for your support. Stephen keeps my channel going. 😀
Thank you for your frank and honest videos, from choice of bow to choice of arrows your advice has been invaluable. Thank you.
Victory VForce Sport arrows are my five dollar arrows. I like the looks of those VAPs though. For most people the difference in a 0.003 and a 0.006 straightness is unnoticeable at 18 m. I am still improving, but I don't see the day in my future where I will outperform my equipment. I have also discovered that if I stay about three years behind, I can afford to shoot flagship bows for entry level pricing.
Arrows are ridiculously expensive... Building a decent budget bow, the arrows can cost as much as the bow.
they will hopefully put themselves out of business. Arrows are a total rippoff
I shoot indoor target and I have spent more on arrows through my life then on my bows
I am a beginner archer, been going about 4 weeks(?). Absolutely love it!!
I bought a cheapo starter kit, I reckon I got it from you guys! Can get a pretty good group at 15 meters. I started at about 8, and every couple of days I go out another couple meters. I don't care if it's not a very far distance. I am in it for the enjoyment. As soon as I look through that peepsight, The whole world stops!
I do hope I can get out to about 40 or 50 meters one day though. I think I might need to upgrade my gear for that range though.
Well done I do all my work at 18m , yes the world does stop and a great feeling when the arrow goes in the middle. enjoy the jouney
I have a 50lbs PSE Stinger... Im shooting 1200+ on a 1440 round dependent on the weather.
I have only broken 2 vap in a year one went through the target and hit a pole and blow up the other got stuck in the deer and the deer landed on it. THANK YOU. I bought the vap after watching your review on them.
what vap? Vap elite, or vap v3 or vap v1?
It really depends on what you spend on your bow, $400-$500 $5 arrows are fine. If you spend $1000-$1600 get the better arrows. It’s like having a Chevy Malibu running regular and a corvette running premium fuel.
Byron Langley that has nothing to do with this......
I've got expensive bows cheap arrows. The difference has never bothered me. Why? Unless your competing in target archery who cares.
I totally agree, 100%. I just started archery, and started with a $299 Bear Salute, and $6 Easton Aftermath arrows. Tried a loaner set of Easton X10s. Not a shred of difference. Turns out, archer skill is by far the biggest factor. LOL
12:33 - See? LOL. I was right.
Every time he says carbon arrow i get hungry for pasta.
Love your videos. Totally enjoy all of them! Just wondering...Gold Tip Hunters have higher profile vanes for increased broadhead stability for hunting. The VAP and Velocity arrows had low profile vanes for target shooting and less wind resistance. I'm a bowhunter, and I'd love to see you do a video shooting various hunting broadheads with Blazer vanes versus low profile target vanes. I like my targets to bleed...just saying'!
Just getting back into archery after a couple decades away. I bought 12 carbon arrows off Amazon just for practice. I shoot a 55 pound recurve and these cheap $36 Arrows are shooting straight and are very durable.
Man I wish you had a shop in the US. Although I don’t know what aloominium is. 😁 But seriously great informative videos!!!
Yea I agree. He seems so unprecociius and an cool person to shoot arrows with, and have as a friend. HOWEVER, because he is an business owner "and" practices Archery, I doubt he has much time for an life/friends unless you work for him. 🏹🤠👍
Bit late but for future reference the clicking sounds like a worn bearing under load. If you remove the load (string) you should be able to inspect the pulley / bearing and find lateral or rotational play, or some degree of friction. The clicking is usually the first sign, followed closely by increased noise. Thats time to replace before it will likely become noticeable play under load and / or failure. Bushes can make a similar noise but its usually more of a knock than a click.
I'm not familiar with compound bows but i am an ex ford technician. It looks like those pulleys will have some form of bearing and/or possibly bushings, those parts are supposed to take the wear. If not bearings or bushes, the problem could lie in the shaft or the pulley itself but it's less likely unless the materials are too flimsy.
Hope that's of some help in future.
This video doesn't prove much.
You used a different tune between the two shafts, so it's not an apples to apples comparison -- you haven't isolated the shaft price as a variable in your test, so you can't say with any confidence that price is the cause of your results. The expensive arrows are clearly well-tuned. But the wider group on the cheaper arrows could easily be because you haven't tuned them as precisely as the expensive set. Also, you knowing which arrows you're shooting could easily boost or hinder your confidence, affecting the results.
It was about the grouping, not the tune and cheap arrows simply dont tune as well because of how they are made and the inconsistency within the shafts ,it was clear to see the didnt hit as tighter group and clearly suit a new archery who needs to spend time on form . I think it was a good video on the subject .
@@AussieArcher1234 himself having shops, he is business man.
@@marywang3169 WTF has that got to do with grouping arrows
8:47 - I was watching your stabiliser against the vents on the (whatever that was there), and I could tell that shot was off: You were one full vent slot lower than your original aim point. LOL
Gold Tip Hunter XT - I use them for 3d and hunting. Best arrow for the money IMO.
Easton Fat Boy - Indoor paper animal league.
I love this guys videos.. always learn so much from him. I value his opinions
This man could probably shoot bare shaft dowel rods straighter than I could shoot a $120/dozen custom built arrows.
I agree. Thanks to the "stimulus checks" I have an great bow (supra focus XL) but currently in tight budget so, I cut down cheap carbon arrows, use a whisker biscuit, and an power dot hunting sight for my rig and am loving it. 🏹🤠👍
As a trad archer, that all looks like an impossible grouping to me :)
I shoot cheap arrows just as good as high dollar arrows it’s all a matter of how you build em
Exactly! I also do the same. I fine tune everyone of my cheap arrows and have the same results as my carbon Express maxima reds. It's all about details. I actually have some super cheap arrows from China that I use for hunting now because I found them to be a bit stronger as far as breaking. More expensive is not always better.
same hear i shoot mid grade gold tip arrows out of a dozen shafts i might get 2 that are not match worthy. there are a million things a person can do too get better results. build a little higher foc spin and cut the bad sections off the ends spine check them that is what i do. even out too a hundred yards you really dont see much of an advantage. i shoot every day and honestly say i shoot better because i can afford too push myself too make harder shots. if i was worried about breaking an arrow i might not push my limits as often. as long as it can fill the x ring groups dont matter as much.
Amen
VH413 are the cheap arrows from wish?
@@VH413 Hello. Which are these arrows you are using from China?. Are you stil happy with them?. Thank you.
Wait, you use a skinnier arrow for target shooting? Don’t you want a thicker arrow since target scores are calculated by how far the arrow shaft cut into the paper? A wider arrow gives you in advantage. Skinnier arrows are mostly for penetration.
There are several reasons for skinnier.
1) less time tuning in the arrows from indoor and out.
2) Deflections. If you're shooting at the same single (as opposed to the three or 5's targets), there's less chance of a bad scored shot due to a deflection.
3) Inside out. I know in NFAA, if there's a tie, they will judge for inside outs (that's when the arrow isn't touching lines and is in the dead center. A "nothing but net" shot.
I have used Switch Cane arrows and a home made primitive bow of Cedar. I have won tournaments with this equipment. If a shaft is solid with no flaws and fletched properly with the proper weight point the bow doesn't care how much it cost. It will shoot as straight as the shooter wants.
I have heard that noise before, it is micro fractures in the limb. I had a Martan Firecat do that in my bottom limb and the bow locked at full draw due to the crack and slight twisting of the cam.
Tbh when you said cheap arrows, I assumed you meant Amazon arrows 😅
I shoot carbon and am constantly thinking "is this the day I blow this arrow through my hand." I am thinking of switching to aluminum.
I should also mention that atm I am shooting Gold Tip Hunter 340 and they are pretty nice and as far as I am concerned, very consistant.
Lol that's always in the back of my head, i always check my arrows before i start to shoot
Laat Dovahkin I wouldn’t worry about it, I once made the mistake of shooting an arrow until it exploded on me and if you have any clue what your doing you’ll throw the arrow away well before that happens, I had multiple cracks all the way down my arrow and didn’t even know that an arrow could do that, let’s just say it was a learning experience😂
If that's worrying to you, you should get thicker arrows. The arrow shouldn't flex nearly that much.
Easton aftermaths excellent price point at $70-80 - a dozen - H nock I use for hunting .
My aftermaths come in a few days and am looking forward to setting them up. Heard a bunch of good things about them.
Hey Steven, I just ordered another set of Victory V.A.P. 800 Spine V3 arrow shafts, which will be cut to 28" inches. I 'am going to custom build them with 110 grain points, and nock pin bushings, and pin nocks. Which I will be utilizing with my Junxing F 155 bows, one is Blue with 30 LB. Limbs, and the other is Black with 36 LB. Limbs. Thank you for sharing all your great insights to the sport of Archery!!!!!!!
I watch a lot of your videos and I think you do a great job , and your shooting skills are top notch
@archery supplies Could you please tell me the name of those five dollar arrows again please? I found it difficult to catch the name. And do you still stock them or similar in performance. Were they "Fletchwood blazer vanes". I cannot see them on your website (URL in video description) Thanks.
I was shooting VAP Elites(V1) before you, and still shooting them. Use the TKO's for indoor. Just love the look of them. Now hurry up with the Evoke review before I buy a Hoyt.
A great video, very VERY high production value andvpacked full of info.
Not an archer, but still subscribed.
Awesme
Thanks Steven. Nice vid. I'm in the recurve target world but I really respect the straight talk and reverence for hunting and bow hunters. Good stuff.
As for arrows. I agree. I always suggest shooting decent to mid grade arrows but as for expensive arrows most everyone is wasting their money. Cheap arrows have there place. As an experienced target and hunting archer. I set up and tune bows anyone who tunes bows will agree. You cant shoot different spined arrows with different weight tips and different lengths and compare there groups with any certainty. If you're bow is tuned to a 350 spine 28 inch shaft with 120g tip. Then you shoot a 400 spine (weaker spine) at 31 in shaft (makes a more weeker spine) there will be much more deflection in your arrow to compare groups with any certainty. Get the cheap arrows in the correct spine and cut them down. Put a new insert in them with same tip as yours the shoot and compare. But i do agree with some of your points so thanks for the content. And keep shooting
I've bought VAP sports by your reccomendation, loving them and only broke a few because the point bent inside the shaft. I switched to Carbon express pin points and havent broken one since.
I have heard that, but i'm shooting same arrows for ages.
I used to shoot the cheap 3 dollar Allen arrows from walmart and would go through them like crazy, they broke all the time and weren't very precise. I switched to Easton Axis Traditionals and they shot amazingly. I only broke one in a period of 3 years using them when I was shooting in the house and someone knocked on the front door, which startled me, and I slapped the trigger on my release and sent an arrow through the closet door where it broke in half. I stopped shooting in the house after that, but they're good tough arrows, and I'll never cheap out on arrows again after seeing the difference. I've even shot those arrows into rocks while hunting rabbits and they were perfectly fine. Good arrows make all the difference.
We buy those $5 arrows in bulk for our club and pay about half that. I wouldn't shoot one through my compounds but for the Genesis and lightweight recurves we supply on open days they are fine. The inserts do come out as you say but not a real problem with our targets. There are other Chinese shafts available that are much higher quality and compare more than favourably with some of the cheaper name brand arrows for hunting and at a much more affordable price. Good video.
Best archery videos on youtube easily
Thanks
Indeed and I brought my PSE Nighthawk from this store- love it.
The way it appeared to me was that the $5 arrows had less flex so when the arrows hit together there was more deflection causing the second arrow to hit off to the side of the arrow in the target. With the more expensive arrows they appeared to flex and bend enough for the shot arrow to squeeze in right next to the arrow already in the target. Just an observation
I've spent big money on arrows only to have them be outperformed by 5 dollar pre cut arrows from the bin.
I don't know what you're hunting down there that you don't lose arrows, but if I shoot a Missouri Whitetail that arrow is going straight through and I'm probably not even going to look hard for it. If I do, I'm more interested in the broadhead than the arrow shaft for reuse.
For competition once you get good enough to think about winning rather than competing for fun, sure, spend the bank on the gear. For the rest of us, arrows are disposable.
I just shoot Avalon tyro for recurve and Avalon Classic for compound. I've only been shooting for a couple weeks though, so I can't see the difference. But according to everyone I've talked to they're not bad arrows at all. They're 5 euros a piece, and fly as straight as you'd need it to. It's really more about the lack of pins, and the carbon not being made that well. But overall for something like 3D archery they're perfect expendable arrows. Also they are able to be cut down, so they fit my bows perfectly.
Thanks for the info. Your videos are always informative.
thanks.
I'm just a beginner at archery but I'm not new to the sport of target shooting. I would think archery equipment is subject to the same rules as other target shooting sports: Cheap is a bit of a lottery but often better than we would like to acknowledge with the good stuff in hand. There is also another truth to these things: Good stuff isn't necessary that expensive to produce in this day and age.
Wish I had seen this before buying my last lot of arrows..
Will keep them for when I go hunting and stick to the cheaper ones for practice
always well informative and honest reviews, this one no different, i hope i have chance to pop in to your shop one day
I shoot $3 arrows from a cheap bow in my backyard . It makes getting a bullseye all the more rare and exciting. I have made a bow with fiberglass driveway markers and tape and shot an arrow I found in the park and was able to hit my target. Clearly not your ideal customer, but now I am wondering what I would do with a decent bow and set of arrows.? Maybe my habits are already to bad, Good thing I enjoy shooting my backyard target!
I think the point has been proven that a mid range decent arrow will shoot better than most people's abilities.
If the noise hadn't totally distracted you the $5 arrow group would of been much better too!
Obviously if you're an elite archer then buy the top quality but for beginners or intermediate archers mid range are sound enough
Will take a look around your shop soon bud looks great 👍🏻
hi Stephan I placed an order with ur shop for a set of victory elite 600 and was wondering if u got any in yet
Ok, I´m outing as a newbei on archery... BUT: from my other experiences on shooting, even the cheap arrows form a extremely nice group on your target. Off the center maybe, but a good group after all. Could be up for weight/speed, length or balance of the arrows? Just curious...
At 20 yards, the difference will not be huge. The more expensive arrows, like he said, are spined more consistently and are straighter. Both of these make the arrow perform better at longer ranges. For a new archer, or one who is not an accomplished shooter, the difference could be unnoticeable but an accomplished archer will see a difference in group size and consistency. It may be a 9 or wide 10 instead of an X but it will be there. I don't recommend the CHEAP ones but mid range arrows are good enough for most archers and for hunting.
Hunting -black eagles
Target- easton
The one at the bottom that wasn't grouped with the others, hit and deflected off of the grouped bunch. You could hear it, and the angle shows that.
Excellent form Stephen. Great video as usual.
Do you notice a difference in accuracy between the elites at .001 straightness or the sports at .006? thanks
You shoot good even with the cheapest arrows. It only means skill is King, secondary is the equipment
most hunter are hunting for the meat also it is not TV cost does effect the viability of hunting . How do you feel about the larger flights?
I come from the long range shooting world (.300 win mag to .408 cheytac) . Each shot of a round was $2 to $11. A day at the range was easily over $100. Archery does see a heck of a lot cheaper, yet I see people complaining.
Been using economy arrows for practice and recently went from the Tru Fire Sear release to the Stanislawski Blackjack good for me bad for arrows.Blasting up the economy arrows shooting groups went thru half a dozen in a couple days so now I have to pick different points to hit with each shot. The difference between the economy arrows I use ( roughly 60 usd per dozen in 350 spine) for practice and my good arrows (carbon express maxima blu rz) is marginal at 20 yards but step out to 30 yards and my economy arrows will hold maybe 2.5-3" groups the Blu Rz arrows will still stack, unfortunately do not have a spot where I can test the difference at 40 or 50 yards. That's with a Bowtech Carbon Knight 28.5" draw and roughly 75~lbs draw.
Interesting you say that pin nocks protect the arrow shaft, I shoot Easton ACE's and used to use pin nocks but found when I hit an arrow, the nock end split, the pin seemed to transfer the energy from the arrow hitting it into the shaft and split the carbon so I changed to using G nocks and I've yet to split a shaft even though I've hit the arrow with another, all that seems to happen is that I lose a G nock, much cheaper :-)
I have shot GoldTips for years and love them but they have never survived a kill.
My groups at 60 yards look like your groups but I hand build and tune my arrows.
I am shooting the Matthew Monster SLR8 set up for hunting. I have no clue how you can stand to shoot those long stabilizers.
why would you use 166 diameter for spots? they are for hunting... i like to use 23/64" diameter for spots and a easton axis for hunting
They’re used by many of the best field archers the world over, mostly outdoor, but also indoors. They tune well and people often shoot their outdoor set up year round. 600 WA18 indoor rounds have been shot with fat and skinnies in the last year, so clearly both work well!
I shot primitive my last few year of following the club shoots and never felt handicapped? My homemade Osage bow and switch cane arrows won a lot of tournaments?
I shoot aluminum arrows & I have never had a problem with them .
Would you buy the vaps you see on aliexpress ? They seem to be over spined to insure they’re not under spine.
I wouldn't really go with dirt cheap arrows in my compound, but for hunting, the one unavoidably prevalent fact that stops me buying $50 arrows is pass-through and animal movement. The pump house of a deer is roughly fist sized, lungs even bigger, at some point a 2-4in group is simply good enough, and anything more is simply academic. Add in the failure to recover at least some percentage of pass throughs and misses, plus arrows that get thrashed if they don't pass through, it can get totally out of control with prices...I hunt to provide most of the red meat we eat, so keeping costs reasonable is important to me
Spending as much on arrows as on a quality bow. Nuts.
edit: also not making much of a case for expensive arrows with that kind of groupings. If I'm seeing what I think I am, the grouping's are even better for the cheapos.
edit: ok cheapos had worse grouping, thought the gold tips were the cheapos. Even so, non compound, cheapos seem just fine.
You ever figure out what the noise was from the top cam?
Ill admit.. i bought 12 cheap aluminium arrows and 12 cheap carbon arrows so i had somthing i could break without getting mad about it.
Im new to archery so it was the best choice for me..
Once i learn how to shoot ofc ill buy mor expensive arrows. thats a given..
But i could see my self being thrown off archery if i had to throw 100/200$ at arrows that i broke within the first weeks.
I just got back into archery and made a similar choice. For a beginner like me the difference between a cheap arrow and expensive one is basically cosmetic. Once I get the hang of if a more expressive arrow will show a difference.
I bought bottom low end Easton genesis arrows ($4.99usd). I wanted to start with cheap arrows for the same reasons. They are so bad I was “pulp fictioning” the target. I shot with them for a week and was getting frustrated with the results. I upgraded to black eagle vintage carbon arrows($80/6) and it feels like I am shooting lasers.
Can you tell the difference with the straightness with your victory arrows? My bowtech wants me to get the Elites but I heard that you can't really tell the difference between the sports or the gamers. What are you thoughts. Thanks
No I can't tell the difference hence I have sports and elites - I feel like I should have Elites - but they shoot the same
What spine, arrow lenght and point weight combo are you using on your vap?? Plus are you shooting the supra at 60lbs?
Supra is 60# 28" arrows are 350 - 140gr point 29" long
You know what carbon arrows do they fracture and explode and can do quite the number on your hand
It all depends on what your going to do. 70 meter Olympic, or 3D, or recreational. Nobody would ever spend the money for Olympic grade arrows for recreational/practice. Kind of common senseical.
In other words, if you r not doing competition shooting aka olympic stuff; cheap arrows are good enough!
Not sure if sensical is a word but if it is I’m gonna start using it.
I’m surprised you didn’t do the spin test, to show people how to tell if an arrow Is straight or not
For all the carbon arrows out there (and i have few dozens of different from some cheapest chinese up to Skylon Paragon - not so cheap chinese) for indoor i went for Easton X23 2315 shafts.
what type of bow the brand and all the set-up ,thank you ,merci à vous .
What is the best 105 dollars arrow?
Can you split an arrow with another arrow?
I used CarbonTech Cheetah 45/70-400 grain with a 100 grain field tip my draw length is 29.
Great video and thank you! I’ll bet that stabilizer is hell to maneuver in a deer stand. JK.
No larger diameter arrows? Like the Victory NVX 23?
distance to target at range? 18m?
hi there I use xx75 GameGetter 500 for my recurve at 46 pound bow and I use a 44 poud recurve bow with x10 arrows at 380 and get very good result of the 2 types arrow that are match for shootibng indoor and now out door i used x 10 arrow fo the wind on the prairiea
I'm shooting 340 velocity xt at 29.75" with 130gr point and 20gr fact system weight out of my supra focus set at 61lbs, they shoot pretty good. They weigh 426gr, looking at the 350 VAP target gamer with a 140 point as my next arrow
.166 Dia??? Why is it that no one ever actually mikes the outside diameter of victory VAP arrows. They are .215 Dia. The inside diameter is .166 NOT the outside.
It is because the inside diameter remains constant and determines nock and point size. The outside diameter changes with spine, sometimes quite a lot. II is therefore a better reference
@@thomasstanworth beat me too it lol
4mm/.166 or 4.2mm id..outside diameter, different spine different diameter but id still .166"..for an example..700 spine 4.2mm id, o.d 5.6mm, 600 spine o.d 5.7mm, the inside diameter still same..
I prefer the cheaper arrows, because it's not quite so bad when you're playing Horse with your dad & BiL and you send an arrow into the bush, or into a tree.
That top group with the cheapie arrows is plenty good to drop a whitetail in my neck of the woods.
No mention of carbon express which many, many people use
I have some gold tips that are 500 spine is that good for my bow thats set at 48lbs
Yes should be fine. Depends on draw length and point weight and bow
@@ArcherySuppliesLonsdale ok thanks I have a 29 inch draw length
Hi sir do u supply this item anywhere in the world?i
When are we going to se New PSE Evoke reviews :)
Cleared customs Friday so I hope to have them Monday but I have to wait
And Carbon 35 and Bowmadness ;-)
When pigs fly you piece of it.. EXA is gay all the way
Where is your shop
I shoot the new easton Carbon axis under armour and i have always 3 arrows out of ten that are going in the Seven or the eight and all the others are going into 9 or 10
How is that possible ?
Hi Steven, hope to find you well. Excellent video, I have a questio please on the junior side of shooters ie kids do victory have an arrow for them approx 24 to 25" draw and shouting at approx 28lbs and 32" respectively. Thry both shoot indoor and outdoor.
If so any chance you can tell me which or if not what is the lowest spec of a shouter before they can get into a good carbon arrow. Money not really the issue here. Thanks in advance. Take care and look forward to your next instalment
Yes the same arrows as I shoot VAP sport in 1000spine with 80grain points. I would shoot the same arrow for everything. I'm shooting VAP for indoor, but I will try FAT arrows soon.
check the VAP spine chart.
@@ArcherySuppliesLonsdale Many thanks my friend. I will get them ordered up. Didnt think they would do them for the kids. Not very good at reading these sort of charts. Just about manage the easton one. Maybe a short video on reading thr victory arrow charts maybe a good one for the future. Take care. X
Most shops can cut down the arrows for draw length and are happy get kids set up. Wife and my kids all shoot Bemans since they fall in roughly the same spine. I have found that my sons bow actually tuned and shoots a 28" shaft much better then his 24" draw/shaft.
As a hunter I can tell you 100% that you do lose your arrows, the arrows often break when the animal jerks and tries to run or you get pass through and the arrow keeps going and you never find them.
Hell even had them fall on them and break them...
Unless you aim for the head(which you should never do for anything bigger then a rabbit) its unavoidable.
$5 arrows are perfectly OK for beginners and intermediate archers, IF and WHEN the archer becomes more proficient then they can move up to EXPENSIVE ARROWS and a more EXPENSIVE bow, if they can afford it, too many suppliers tend to want to push EXPENSIVE equipment to start off with, and the cost for many hobbies can be prohibitive and can put people off from trying a new sport.
Ok I have a weird one. I find sometimes I shoot better with cheaper arrows. Hear me out. I shoot field, (unmarked distance 3d). When I've had expensive arrows as I've drawn up all that's running through my head is don't miss, don't lose/break this arrow etc etc, I panic and procede to smash my arrow (Easton superflight). I switched to maximal edges, a midrange-budget arrow. Now when I draw up I'm more calm and found I actually enjoyed the sport more. Did I miss an arrow? Oh well! Did one smash, meh no Biggie.
Are those velocitys or velocity XTs?
I have really cheap arrows specifically for stump shooting. Doesn't make sense to lose my Black Eagles to the brush or rocks
Thought you going to talk about cheap arrows and expensive arrows.