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Correcting the misunderstandings of Allen Parr about Ellen G. White
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- Опубликовано: 20 фев 2021
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VIDEO DESCRIPTION:
Our videos are carefully and prayerfully created with the intent to be as theologically accurate as possible in the information we provide. In this process, we invoke the help of scholars, editors and others in the formatting and editing of our videos and scripts. We truly believe that "in the multitude of counselors there is safety" (Prov. 11:14).
For this reason, we thank the following individuals for their help:
Eugene Prewitt: www.bibledoc.org
Pastor Kevin Morgan: southern.acade...
Christopher and Casey Sernaque: www.christjesu...
Thank you also to our supporters:
1) Petra Dotson: / @petradotsonmaranatha
2) Hostessy Vacation Homes: www.myhostinfl...
In the video, we referenced various resources. You will find those resources below at the following links. These have been specifically chosen to aid you in your research into this important topic:
1) An Exegesis of 1 Timothy 2:11-15 and It's Implications
Sakae Kubo: adventistbibli... (pages 78-81)
2) What Got Changed in Fundamental Beliefs: A look at some of the statements that were revised and why: www.adventistr...
3) Conference President Statement that changes in wording does not mean changing beliefs: adventist.news... and record.adventi...
4) Kenneth Wood's Statement in Context: documents.adve... (page 14)
5) The Review and Herald's Statement in Context: documents.adve... (page 11)
6) The Seventh-day Adventist Church's Understanding of Ellen White's Authority: What We Affirm and what we Deny: whiteestate.or...
7) The "Gift of Prophecy: It's Meaning: www.adventist....
8) Brief Studies on the Law (Ephesians 2:15, Matt. 5:17, etc): dev.adventistb... and m.egwwritings....
9) We recommend the following books for even deeper studies:
-Ellen White Under Fire, by Jud Lake
-Messenger of the Lord, by Herbert E. Douglass (Read Online: m.egwwritings....)
-Ellen G. White and Her Critics, by Francis D. Nichol (Read Online: m.egwwritings....)
10) Websites Answering Charges against Ellen G. White:
-Issues & Answers Regarding Inspiration and the Life and Work of Ellen G. White: whiteestate.or...
-Answering Various Charges: www.truthorfabl...
-A Closer Look at the Allegations against Ellen G. White: ellen-white.com/
-Ellen White Answers: www.ellenwhitea...
-Refuting the Charges Against Ellen G. White: www.ellenwhite...
-Answering Charges such as Plagiarism, Amalgamation, Etc: dedication.www3...
NOTE:
At time 34:39 the wrong quotation appears on screen.
At time 1:09 it leaves out the chapter number. What is meant is: "Daniel 9:21-22."
ARTICLES BY THE ADVENT DEFENSE LEAGUE:
-Was Ellen White a Freemason? adventistdefen...
-Food for Worms: Failure or Conditional Prophecy? adventistdefen...
-Old Jerusalem would not be rebuilt? adventistdefen...
Edwin M. Cotto
Advent Defense League
__________________________________________________
thorough presentation ...i would recommend we all pray for Allan ..it is sad that people like him feel the need to disparage that which they don't or refuse to understand
Thank you for taking the time to give an needed response to the criticism of our faith which is an attack on the bible! Can't wait! God Bless you! MARANATHA!
Unfortunately, the way that Allen Parr uses Hebrews 1:1-2 disqualifies all prophets who came after Jesus. That would disqualify the book of Revelation, which prophesies the presence of the gift of prophecy among those who await the second coming.
A very clear statement on the roles of prophecy in the church is 1 Corinthians 14:3: "But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort." "Edification" is building up; "exhortation" is reminding us of what we should and shouldn't do, according to Scripture; "comfort" is encouraging us through difficult times. These are roles that Ellen G. White played during her lifetime.
Amazingly well done, an exercise in scriptural gymnastics that wins the gold. Soldier on brother, soldier on!
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This is so cool! This is great! The truth is getting out!
Revelation 14:12 " Here is the patience of *THE SAINTS* : here *ARE THEY THAT KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD AND HAVE THE FAITH OF JESUS*
We will be posting important links as we stream the video here in the LIVE chat, along with answering questions from viewers.
I’m a few years behind but great apologetics brother! I’m new to the Adventist way of thinking and a new subscriber. Thanks for all you do.
Hi there! It's our pleasure to serve. Thanks for the sub, and please ask others to sub also!
Will do! I hear you’re in central Florida? Me too! Do you mind sharing what fellowship you attend? Looking for a home church.
Sure! Send me an email: info.adventdefenseleague@gmail.com
Amen praise the lord I enjoyed it you did a wonderful job can’t wait for the other parts God is good.
Good job sir may God bless your ministry. you've explain it clearly👏
Can't wait!
Very well thorough video, will be looking forward to the next one. Blessings my brother.
Amen the truth finally revealed
Praise the Lord brother.
Very well done. Thank you! And may God's continued blessings be on you and your ministry to bless others.
Great work Edwin.
Edwin you're doing a good job, God bless you,
I like the introduction music. keep on !
Thanks for explaining it!
When you really get down to the nitty-gritty, with in-depth Biblical theological discussion, Adventist theology cannot be refuted. It is, irrefutable, and built in SOLID Biblical evidence. Uncomfortable? Yes. But irrefutable. Looking forward to seeing the one on the Investigative Judgment! :D (Marcos)
Amen. Adventism has a consistent, holistic view of the entire Bible which if our critics had they would have understood exactly how inspiration and authority works in scripture and this response video would not have been necessary.
Brandolini's law in effect. It takes an 1 hour 20 minute video to debunk a lazy 20 min video with little proof.
The quality of this exposition compared Allens is so glaring. His is basically meme compared to this, requiring no thought at all.
Thank you for this very nice job!
I wonder how Allen interprets Philippians 2:12
“So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;”
An adventist from africa
The topic of salvation seems to often break down to a debate between monergism and synergism. ADL does a good job of explaining Adventist soteriology. There some nuances that affect Allen’s comments. Those nuances revolve around Adventist eschatology in relation to the Sabbath. This topic is often misunderstood by Adventists and nonadventists alike.
Nonetheless, Adventism has nothing to hide. We are staunchly on the Arminian side of the soteriology debate. We don’t agree with Calvin in this area. That does not make Adventism a “works based religion”. That term better fits our pelagian brothers and sisters, the Catholics, Mormons, JWs, and some fundamentalist sects.
Keep up the great work ADL!
I appreciate your comment, and thanks for the support. As you can imagine, Allen never responded to this video.
Please produce more and more to equip our members to counter this evilness on rise. I as a lay person have counter many through you tube as my ministry for " I Will Go."
He's prepping to become a future Sabbath Keeper, only he doesn't know it yet!!!
AND THERE IT IS....EVANGELICAL. SO YOU KNOW WAT SIDE OF THE CROSS ALLEN IS COMING FROM....POPERY!
Àmen Edwin for the truth of God
I have a question Edwin. If another Christian is blatantly rejecting the Sabbath truth, they've been given the truth about the SABBATH and yet still reject it, twist scriptures to fit their rebellious spirit about the SABBATH, and they aren't sincerely ignorant about it because they deliberately go out of their way to teach others that the law was done away or the Sabbath doesn't matter etc aren't they then in APOSTASY? Aren't they in absolute rebellion against God at that point?
Yes because it would be willful sin and teaching persons to break God’s law he won’t take that lightly.
Continue to pray for them!!? That the Spirit of Truth may continue to guide/correct/convict & help them?-- that they (as we, all humanity) in our human Laodecean blind condition in these last days may see/understand & love to GROW/to walk/keep/obey/treasure God's love messages of truth and, that we all come to unity of faith/trust & fellowship as it is IN Christ Jesus= The Lord /Maker & Love-Gifter of Sabbath-Rest...ALONG with the maaany other "Love-Truth Gifts" of The Creator??
Praying hopefully that as it was in the cases of "ego-high-headed" Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel's lifetime ...OR... even "persecuting" Saul(becoming Paul) NOT in Stephen's lifetime, they may see/understand/recognize and turn to walk much closer to God & only Savior -- Whom they already believed IN?
Pray for the promised Spirit of Truth that may guide them/us all INTO ALL truth(we need).
"Pray for them..." Jesus Christ
We are not under the law, its all about CHRIST now
Thank you. I will spread this.
Allan Parr-You have been knock out !!
God bless you.
Thank you so much for your very clear, honest response to Alan Parr concerning his attacks on the SDA Church. It's refreshing to witness God's Fruits of the Spirit present in your character and words. I look forward to more of your presentations. May God continue to bless your Bible based ministry for Christ Jesus.
Thank you Linda for that nice comment and also for watching!
@@AdventDefenseLeague😊🙏🕊️
I do feel for those who believe in Allan Parr. I thought he speaks the truth before but when he speaks and believe the immortality of the soul doctrine I stepped back and stopped watching his RUclips channel. I felt like he was speaking serpent language echoing what had happened in the garden of Eden.
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Bro. Edwin.
Re: Heb. 1.
It was written about 60 AD, I believe it was by the Apostle Paul.
The Book of Revelation was written by John, in 96 AD.
I'll be as gentle as I can, to say that Allen has no clue about what he's talking about regarding prophets coming after Jesus' Incarnation and Ascension.
Good
I have a question, can a woman be an Elder or hold a position of Elder or Deaconess in the SDA church? If so, is that biblical or does sister White address it in her writings? I appreciate your help on this! God bless you always! Maranatha
Maybe you could give a theological response to a recent video posted by Ms. Lady Grace on why she's leaving the SDA church.
So many critics, so little time lol. But we may. Thanks for the recommendation.
God bless you guys here in ADL in clarifying and defending SDA bible based beliefs. The devil is indeed wroth! "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Rev 12:17 With the help of the Holy Spirit let us keep preaching the 3 Angel's Messages of Revelation 14 and practice 2 Tim 2:15 daily! Let's go!!!
Amen and thanks for commenting!
GREAT !!!
Amen brother!
Thanks for watching!
This is dynamite.
Edwin 34:30 The wrong slide. Please ignore if it has already been pointed out. Too many comments to check. Blessings !
Yes, that has been noted before but thanks anyway, and thanks also for watching!
👍
I saw apart of the mentioned videos by Allen. Thanks for creating a response to him. What he was saying was just misleading.
I appreciate the nice comment. Thanks for watching and please subscribe! 🙂
Can you name any prophets after the first century and prior to EGW that the SDA would agree with?
Hello. Adventists believe there were many individuals who had the gifts of the Spirit throughout history, including the gift of prophecy. One of them was the reformer John Wesley. Here's his testimony:
"Many endeavored to throw me down while we were going down hill on a slippery path to the town; as well judging that if I was once on the ground, I should hardly rise any more. But I made no stumble at all, nor the least slip, till I was entirely out of their hands.... Although many strove to lay hold on my collar or clothes, to pull me down, they could not fasten at all: only one got fast hold of the flap of my waistcoat, which was soon left in his hand; the other flap, in the pocket of which was a bank note, was torn but half off.... A lusty man just behind, struck at me several times, with a large oaken stick; with which if he had struck me once on the back part of my head, it would have saved him all further trouble. But every time, the blow was turned aside, I know not how; for I could not move to the right hand or left.... Another came rushing through the press, and raising his arm to strike, on a sudden let it drop, and only stroked my head, saying, 'What soft hair he has!' ... The very first men whose hearts were turned were the heroes of the town, the captains of the rabble on all occasions, one of them having been a prize fighter at the bear gardens....
"By how gentle degrees does God prepare us for His will! Two years ago, a piece of brick grazed my shoulders. It was a year after that the stone struck me between the eyes. Last month I received one blow, and this evening two, one before we came into the town, and one after we were gone out; but both were as nothing: for though one man struck me on the breast with all his might, and the other on the mouth with such force that the blood gushed out immediately, I felt no more pain from either of the blows than if they had touched me with a straw."-John Wesley, Works, vol. 3, pp. 297, 298 (quoted in Great Controversy pp. 258.2 - GC 259.1).
Here you can see God's Spirit manifested on this man, guiding him and protecting him as he went about doing God's work. Similarly, Ellen White was saved from many atrocities and attacks, and she also shared how God's Spirit moved in her life.
And there are many more such testimonies. Thanks for commenting.
@@AdventDefenseLeague and here I thought you would show me a prophecy of his. Anyone can write something good and have the Holy Spirit but that doesn't make him a prophet. He never claimed to be one or prophesized anything.
Also, he worshipped on SUNDAY. oops
@Onesneak you seem unaware of the various prophetic methods of the gift of prophecy. You think it's only through visions or dreams, and this presupposition prevents you from seeing relevance in my answer. How unfortunate. Watch part 2 of our plagiarism series for more information on this.
But if you insist... Jan Huss, before being executed, made a prediction of a reformer coming after him who Rome would not be able to silence. At about the predicted time, Martin Luther arrived on the scene.
"He didn't claim to be a prophet" But he experienced things prophets do. Plus, no one needs to claim to be a prophet in order to be one. Nothing is recorded of John the Baptist having visions or dreams, not of claiming to be a "prophet" (albeit he called himself a messenger). But Jesus calls him more than a prophet.
As for the comment regarding his Sunday keeping, so what? Not everyone is at the same stage of knowledge, and people are judged according to what they know. You seem to think SDAs think God can't use a Sunday keeper. On the contrary, we believe God has people in all churches based on their sincerity and willingness to accept light as it arrives. For example, Jesus used Peter mightily during his time on earth, even though Peter was still quite prejudiced of Gentiles. It was later that he learned the gospel was for them too (Acts 10).
Are you able to put aside the bias and obnoxious comments like "oops?" I'm not inclined to continue conversating with someone acting like that.
@@AdventDefenseLeague sorry about the oops part. But would appreciate it if you didn't already assume that i believe only in visions and dreams for prophesy. I've never said that.
Now a true prophet, one would think , would know to worship only on the Sabbath. And I bet you if one was to go up to John w. and say only on Saturday that he would disagree. If he disagrees because he only knows what he knows at the time(which is blaming the Catholic Church) then he is not a prophet because a prophet would see through the lie.
True, Martin Luther didn't claim to be a prophet because he wasn't one. I cannot think of any church that would say he was besides your church now. If he was a prophet then why would he try to destroy the bible by rejecting books like James(an epistle of straw that he would like to throw into the furnace) and the book of Revelation? I wouldn't be able to back anyone that does that.
where is episode 2 about the investigation ?
Hello! Yes, we will get to that next video soon. Right now, we are working on videos regarding EGW and plagiarism. Please enjoy those until this one can be produced.
Not to mention that the Prophet John the Beloved wrote the Book of Revelation LONG after Paul wrote the book of Hebrews! lol. So if Allan is to stick to his interpretation of Hebrews, that there will be no more prophets after John, then the Bible would be going against its own counsel by having the prophet John write the book of Revelation!
Allan Parr is a misguided preacher..it's like pot calling kettle black
Sound is a little choppy every now and then.
Thank you for pointing this out.
Do you have any info about how to show proof that after the life of the apostles that the church fathers kept the Sabbath?
@@mannytorrez2138 Read Acts 17 and you will see they kept the sabbath
@@mannytorrez2138 Sozomen, a church historian, wrote in 'Ecclesiastical History (Book VIII)' that the Sabbath was observed.
Very well put together brother!
From africa
Devil hate truth because most of the peopke who make statment about SDA they donot read bible carefuly and don't reasons the contextual relation to the verse specially acts of apostle to onward chapter and relation to the old testament to the New testament. There is also false interpretation of the verse without understanding the context of the letters even the best theologian are also failed
JOHN 14:15
"If ye love me, keep my commandments.
KING JAMES VERSION (KJV)
REVELATION
14:12
"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
KING JAMES VERSION (KJV)
REVELATION
12:17
"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
- 99
KING JAMES VERSION (KJV)
REVELATION
22:14
"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
99
KING JAMES VERSION (KJV)
PSALMS 89:34
"My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
, 99
KING JAMES VERSION (KJV)
ROMANS 4:15
"Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."
KING JAMES VERSION (KJV)
MATTHEW 5:18
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
KING JAMES VERSION (KJV)
ISAIAH
8:16
"Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.
KING JAMES VERSION (KJV)
Revelation 18:14 come out of who?
Verse 14:
Revelation 18:14 KJV - And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
@@AdventDefenseLeague sorry, I meant verse 4. Come out of who?
Who do you believe is the harlot?
@Onesneak Careful study of the identification marks in chapter 17 with a comparison of history reasons the harlot as the Roman Catholic system which was "drunk with the blood of the saints" and more.
@@AdventDefenseLeague the Catholic Church? How is that possible if Babylon was already in existence in the 1st century and you don't believe that the Catholic Church wasn't around yet?
John writes as if his audience would know who Babylon is because that was their code word for Rome. It can also mean Jerusalem. God calls Jerusalem a whore throughout the OT.
Also, this whore kills the apostles and prophets. How can that be the Catholic Church if by your teaching they didn't exist yet.
So if the Catholic Church isn't the whore then who is she? She is the bride of Christ .
So why is the Bride maligned as the Whore? Jesus himself answered the question: “If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign those of his household” (Matt. 10:25). “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world . . . the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you” (John 15:18-20).
@Onesneak Unfortunately, I cannot through this means outline for you all the reasons for the answer I gave. It's a bible study and comments won't do it justice. And judging from your comments elsewhere, I don't perceive you as a person who'd like to reason with me, but rather argue. Frankly, I'm not worried about it right now. But if you really want to study the issue together, I'd be happy to schedule a Zoom meeting with you.
I suggest for your second video response to tackle a bit more once saved always saved because Allen believes that your past present and future sins are forgiven
Thank you Darius for the suggestion!
@@AdventDefenseLeague You are welcome
Check the 17 minute mark, it’s there!
Rightly divide the scriptures. Christians won't go through the tribulation, Jews will. Ellen teaches the Bible out of context. How can a vision interpret the Bible in a way that contradicts other passages? If a vision does that then don't believe it. You can't apply every verse to yourself because then scripture will contradict itself for example James 2:24 is written for Jews and Romans 4:5 is written for Christians. Ellen teaches you will lose your salvation when you take the mark of the beast but we are not end time tribulation Jews. The Jews can read her writings once we are in Heaven.
🙄
⚠️ Emile ⚠️ Yes or No ⁉️ Do you adhere to the teachings of Peter S. Ruckman ⁉️ Do you consider yourself a Ruckmanite ⁉️ May I know your spiritual affiliation and background so that I can understand you and your theology a little better ⁉️
You do want me to understand you, correct ⁉️ You don't want me to make assumptions about you or your theology, correct ⁉️ Please help me out so that I can make better sense of your argument.
If you're not a Ruckmanite, perhaps a hyperdispensationalist ⁉️ I'm trying hard to understand dispensationalists, but they don't make it easy for me. How can I understand them if they refuse to help me understand them ⁉️
The point is: when I point out contradictions or inconsistencies in their arguments or how they inconsistently apply the principle of "rightly divide", they suddenly become mute or just disappear‼️ 🤔
If you don't want to engage with me, that's fine. Would you prefer Robert Breaker or Gene Kim have a live discussion ⁉️ Can I count on you to convey my message of invitation ⁉️
You speak admirably on the errors of Legalism and how the Lord's Grace is what empowers us, but that is not how it was couched by your prophetess Ellen White in the Great Controversy, when describing Jacob's Trouble.
Here is a quote from her I found at Revival and Reformation, an official SDA site.
"Such will be the experience of God’s people in their final struggle with the powers of evil. God will test their faith, their perseverance, their confidence in His power to deliver them. Satan will endeavor to terrify them with the thought that their cases are hopeless; that their sins have been too great to receive pardon. They will have a deep sense of their shortcomings, and as they review their lives their hopes will sink. But remembering the greatness of God’s mercy, and their own sincere repentance, they will plead His promises made through Christ to helpless, repenting sinners. Their faith will not fail because their prayers are not immediately answered. They will lay hold of the strength of God, as Jacob laid hold of the Angel, and the language of their souls will be, “I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.”5"
Her false doctrine is subtle, she says that they will repent and plead His promises but they are the ones who must save themselves by laying hold and demanding to not let go until getting blessed.
She starts off focusing on the saints as the point of action. She said it is "their final struggle with the powers of evil"
We also know that contrary to scripture she taught that when Christ leaves the Heavenly Sanctuary that saints will have to stand before God without a Mediator.
That is blasphemy, since Christ has promised to be our Lord and Mediator forever, never leaving us.
We also know that seeing man as essentially physical and not spiritual, she does not teach that the Holy Spirit can actually indwell a saint. Instead she describes the Spirit's influence as the thoughts of God we think about from the scriptures.
Thus followers of her doctrine can not be indwelled by the Holy Spirit and therefore will not be able to overcome their sins, but will be striving in their own strength , in vain.
I will provide citations if need be.
Peace and blessings to lovers of Truth.
Thanks for your comment. I found this quotation I Patriarchs and Prophets page 202.1. Note the section:
"They will lay hold of the strength of God, AS JACOB LAID HOLD OF THE ANGEL, and the language of their souls will be, "I will not let Thee go, except Thou bless me.'"
You're right, they are to take hold of Christ AS JACOB DID OF THE ANGEL. You cannot accuse her of this being legalism anymore then you would accuse Jacob of the same. She is careful to parallel the churches experience with that of Jacob's. So your accusation can be leveled against him as well.
Second, the same quote says that they "plead His promises." Thus they are fully dependent on him.
Third, my words are not out of harmony with her's because as I said, any "works" that I perform originate with the the Father. Jacob's ability to overcome was empowered by the grace of God. This was what I was referring to when I referenced Eph. 2:10, which directly tells usbwhere Jacob's, and all of our "works" come from. This message is littered throughout all of EGW's writings but I would not have the space to quote them here now. But she did not say the words "they must save themselves." Again, laying hold of Christ does not mean Jacob was trying to save himself. But it does mean that God gave him the grace to be able to hold on. Her point was that this will be the same experience of God's people in the end.
Grace is power to overcome sin according to Titus 2:11-12. This is what Jacob had and what we may all have in Christ. Since this is EGWs message, she is not therefore in disagreement with what I said.
@@AdventDefenseLeague As I said the deception is subtle.
It is not blatant works and legalism but in the whole context of SDA doctrine it is works based.
Notice that no writer in the New Testament ever uses Jacob's wrestling with the Angel as an example or metaphor for the Body of Christ.
Jacob had his own peculiar circumstances which led him to that struggle and since this was before the incarnation of Christ, the grace and power of Christ as the source is not mentioned in the Old Testament account.
I notice that you have not addressed her claim that saints will be without a mediator and that we cannot actually be indwelled by the Holy Spirit.
In love I tell you that EGW is a deceiver has led many to their spiritual doom.
There is much evidence to support this.
Take what is good and true in her writings but know that she was confused and contradictory on crucial topics such as the Triune nature of the Godhead.
A true prophet would be clear on that topic, especially so if their role was to prepare the Remnant for the last events.
Peace and blessings.
@@thenowchurch6419 you wrote:
// As I said the deception is subtle.
It is not blatant works and legalism but in the whole context of SDA doctrine it is works based. //
This comment shows a transition from the quotation in question to "the whole context of SDA doctrine" concluding with the blatantly false idea that it is "works based" even though I endeavored to prove the opposite in this video. It is as if you didn't even watch the whole video. No critic has of yet even tried to refute the video except for minor disagreements such as yours.
No, as I proved in the video, the SDA church is not based on works. It is based on a crucial element of grace that empowers believers to live out the works which God already prepared before-hand "that they should walk in them" (Eph. 2:10). I will not repeat my proofs in text which I already shared in the video. Readers of this comment are encouraged to view it.
// Notice that no writer in the New Testament ever uses Jacob's wrestling with the Angel as an example or metaphor for the Body of Christ. //
I am shocked that a person who is here to speak about the scriptures would make a comment such as this one. First, the Bible constantly points to Old Testament stories as examples for those living afterwards, especially for those living in the last days:
Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. (1Co 10:11 KJV)
And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned [them] with an overthrow, making [them] an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; (2Pe 2:6 KJV)
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. (Jude 1:7 KJV)
Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience. Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy. (Jas 5:10-11 KJV)
Even Jesus points to the story of Noah as a type of the last days (Matthew 24:38-19). In fact Jacob and every other Patriarch are for us a "great cloud of witnesses" (Heb. 11, 12:1-2). In Jeremiah 30:7 we are told Israel's trials are like that of "Jacob's time of trouble" which typologically represents the times when "David their king" would be "raised up for them" (verse 9) clearly pointing to the future church. Of course this won't make sense to a person who restricts his theology to the "New Testament" only and not the entire Bible as a whole.
You also wrote:
// Jacob had his own peculiar circumstances which led him to that struggle and since this was before the incarnation of Christ, the grace and power of Christ as the source is not mentioned in the Old Testament account. //
I literally had to blink and stare into my screen wondering at how one could arrive at such a conclusion having the Bible right in front of them. There is not a single text that says that grace for the patriarchs meant one thing while grace for the New Testament meant another. I will now challenge you to furnish such a text and I will await your reply.
Meanwhile, when Paul defines grace in Titus 2:11-12 he had nothing BUT the Old Testament available to him. In fact, that grace which justifies us (Titus 3:7) is THE SAME GRACE that justified Abraham (see Rom. 4:1-4, 16). When God gave Israel his law, He reminded them of the grace He showed them in removing them from slavery (Exo. 20:2). This was the motivating factor for empowering them to obey the commandments which soon followed (ibid, verses 3-7). In fact the "gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20:24) was preached to the Israelites as well (Heb. 4:2). All the patriarchs had faith in God's grace (Heb. 11) and were saved by it. Even Abraham had it and saw it in the sacrifice of his son which God stopped from taking place. He literally saw Christ (John 8:56). Many of these patriarchs and prophets were mocked, hunted, tortured, killed (Heb. 11:35-38) and had it not been for that empowering grace which they had by faith, none of them would have survived. They were always saved by grace, never of works, and it is the exact same grace available to us today. This is so elementary I can't believe I have to take time out to explain it. This is also so crucial to the faith of believers that without it the entire plan of salvation is distorted. Grace was always free, empowering, and available from the beginning and until the very end.
Finally, I did not respond to your other comments because first, there is not enough space here, and second, frankly I have neither the time nor desire to go back and forth in texts with someone so clearly convinced of their opinion and already settled in what they think is the truth. Now, if you want to really discuss this we can meet over video or set up a live discussion. My email is: info@adventistdefenseleague.com. Additionally, I would love nothing more then to see a public video response by you of each and every single point I raised in this video. But, to sit in front of my computer for hours on end to try and convince someone who does not want convincing would be totally irresponsible of me being that there are too many other individuals who actually want to study and learn the truth.
Readers can visit my website to see responses to the various accusations leveled against Ellen White: www.adventistdefenseleague.com. You will see that the critics rip her out of context, or totally misunderstand clear bible teaching. See also the description of this video for further resources.
Edwin M. Cotto
@@AdventDefenseLeague I am quite honored and surprised that you would take the time to type up such a long reply Edwin.
Unfortunately for some reason your comments totally missed my points as I will demonstrate now.
1. The SDA church is forked tongued. It speaks out of both sides of its mouth. The reason I said this deception is subtle is because you do quote and teach verses of reliance on grace for salvation but there are numerous places where your "prophet" describes the requirement for salvation as being the outer observance of the Decalogue, especially the 7th Day Sabbath, Health Reform, Music Reform and Dress Reform, while she emphasizes the members efforts to achieve this.
Her denial of actual ontological presence of the Holy Spirit of Christ in the body and spirit of the saints, makes it impossible for those who follow her to be so indwelled and therefore overcome sin.
That is contrary to salvation by grace obviously.
2. Just because NT writers make numerous comparisons and examples based on the OT is beside my point.
I said no NT writer used Jacob and his wrestling as one such analogy with the life of New Covenant saints.
I never indicated that I restrict my theology to the NT alone.
That is a presumption on your part and is akin to bearing false witness.
3. Again, I NEVER said or indicated that Grace for OT saints is different for the NT saints.
On the contrary I implied that Jacob indeed operated in the grace of Christ, I only pointed out that it was not mentioned as such in that portion of scripture and thus could be misleading or be used to mislead.
Would you agree that the NT clarifies and illumines the OT?
I am aware that some SDA's would disagree with that, to their spiritual loss.
I cannot furnish such a text because I know there is not one and I do not believe that there are two fundamentally different kinds of grace or salvation.
4. Someone appearing to you to be assured and certain of their position is no reason not to debate and prove your position.
You appear very certain of yours yet I still challenge your positions on certain things and declare them to be error and deception.
That is a cop-out used to avoid answering the most critical part of my critique of your prophet.
Again one cannot decide not to discuss simply because your opponent does not want convincing.
Do you think the Pharisees and Saduccees and Sanhedrin wanted convincing?
No but Christ and the Apostles preached and debated some of them and won over some of them.
Here is my email: khepratoil@mail.com.
I will pray and meditate over your offer for a live debate and get back to you.
You and others here are invited to visit my channel to see what I believe in.
I once followed the doctrine you follow and was awakened to the real Truth.
Peace and blessings in Iyesus Kristos who is Lord of Love and Justice.
@@thenowchurch6419 Brother, pray for a love of truth which will enable your understanding and acceptance of all truth and prevent "kicking against the pricks." God hears and answers all such prayers prayed in insincerity.
There is no doubt that Adventism is founded upon (or stands upon) two things - Bible and the writings of Ellen White.
That is merely your opinion. Can you refute anything that I said in the video?
@@AdventDefenseLeague Can you honestly confess
Bible 'alone' as the foundation of our Church? You cannot find this word any more in our 28 FB. Her writings are still considered (though changed now to 'speaks with prophetic authority) as continuing source of truth...
@@19818456 yes, because the bible itself says there is such as thing as non-canonical prophets, that non-canonical prophets had writings (such as Nathan), and also that there would be prophets among God's people in the last days. You either have not read that in your bible or have not watched this video where I had already addressed this.
>"Adventism is founded upon (or stands upon) two things - Bible and the writings of Ellen White." -- Wrong. EGW herself said:
"Lay Sister White right to one side: lay her to one side. Don't you never [sic] quote my words again as long as you live, until you can obey the Bible. When you take the Bible and make that your food, and your meat, and your drink, and you make that the elements of your character, when you can do that you will know better how to receive some counsel from God. But here is the Word, the precious Word, exalted before you today. And don't you give a rap any more what 'Sister White Said' -'Sister White said this,' and 'Sister White said that,' and 'Sister White said the other thing'. But say, 'Thus saith the Lord God of Israel.'" -- Spalding and Magan Collection
@@chucksmith4624 Please stay on topic of the original video sir.
From africa