Why I Don't Like Helixes
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 17 май 2024
- I tell you why I don't like helixes in this video. We take a close-up look at the construction and operation of my "eastern" helix
Here's a wonderful video that demonstrates an effective alternative to potentially troublesome helices on a layout. That alternative is a gradual around-the-room incline from one level to another level of a multi-level layout.
• The Val Valley branch ...
N-Scale Union Pacific Evanston Subdivision Facebook Group: / 724442657753901
Anyone else unsure of how they’ve landed here?
Nope, but I'm glad I did as it's an interesting video
Thank you for watching and commenting, Ian. I appreciate it. ...Roy
RUclips's algorithm put it there. ...Roy
N-Scale Union Pacific Evanston Subdivision
Wasn’t insulting you - glad I’ve landed here.
Very intriguing!
I understand, Greg. I'm glad you landed here, too. Thanks for your comment and clarification. ...Roy
I love the way model trains make this older gentleman's face light up. You can practically see his 12 year old self shining through.
I have no idea why this was recommended, but i am glad it was.
I’m glad you liked the video. I try to upload a new one every Saturday morning. ...Roy
Are these trains really small or are you really big?
Actually, both.
Yes, some of realize you actually have an O scale layout, which means you must be bwteen 20 and 24 feet tall, and your house must be huge....
Fee fi fo fum, I've got some trains that must be run!
I don't model railroad, nor will I ever - it's just not for me. That said, I love the craftsmanship of the hobby, and will occasionally watch a RUclips video, just to enjoy the great work that people do. An extra bonus is learning that this hobby, like so many others, has its own set of opinions and fights. The homebrew boat building community fights over bow thrusters, software people fight over indenting style and language choice...and railroaders have strong opinions on helixes. I love it!
I hear you, Travis. The hobby of model railroading definitely is not for everyone. Model railroaders obviously love it, and everyone else has little or no interest in it. I guess that's true of most hobbies. There are hundreds of thousands of model railroaders, and they tend to be passionate, even obsessive, about their chosen hobby. For model railroaders, the hobby is just plain fun. If you like, here's the link to a video I uploaded some time back called "Why Is Model Railroading the World's Greatest Hobby?": ruclips.net/video/g_emZpRPCrs/видео.html.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
...Roy
Model railroading is sometimes called the "perfect" hobby. It combines every aspect of every other hobby: collection, history, painting, sculpting, strategy, electronics, organization, construction, etc.
one thing i would mention: there is many different standards such as oh and there is a lean to one type but different sizes wont work together
This is a serious hobby. Wow. This guy nails it and is passionate for sure to go to such lengths for his hobby. Great job sir.
Indeed, Vic. The hobby is both serious and fun. Thanks for your comment. ...Roy
It took me a moment to realize that this was about model trains (which Im rather clueless about) because I just came from about a dozen or so roller coaster videos and clicked on this because I couldnt imagine someone not liking the helix element on a coaster ;)
I'm not even mad the algorithm is wonky and this showed up in recommended.
This is so fucking booooring
Could you have a steeper gradient if the trains only ever go downhill on it?
Did you somehow follow the same trail as me, where I went from mario 64 siivagunner video to "best train announcer" then to a darth vader sounding train, then for some reason clicked this? Because otherwise how did you even get here Larry
I audibly chuckled at the sight of you commenting on the model train video I found through my recommended at 2 AM. You sneak your way into every comment section, Larry... And it's quite amusing.
Lootman same here
In my experience, the cars tend to bunch up and push on the engines and sometimes crumple into piles. Best keep downhills similar to uphills except in special circumstances.
Woah what are you doing here?
I have never owned a model train. I have never had any interest in model trains. I have never watched a video about trains, models, or model trains. But somehow RUclips's magic algorithm decided your channel is just what I needed. So I just sat through a video about your passionate and burning hatred of helices. I can now add a checkmark to a mental list of "things what I done." Just thought you'd like to know.
I don't really understand RUclips's algorithm, how it works, or why it recommended my video to you. I do know that RUclips often recommends videos on topics that I'm not interested as well. I simply ignore RUclips's recommendation and move on to something that I am interested in. In any case, thank you for watching and taking the time to comment. ...Roy
Remove fascia,install removable sliding doors,or flip up covering in wood or glass.
You need access from outside for trouble shooting.
I didn't know this was a thing. Glad i stopped by, very interesting hobby.
I'm glad you stopped by, too, Travis. As they say, model railroading is the world's greatest hobby. ...Roy
Man, this was a weird recommendation, but I gotta say, I'm glad I stayed and watched it all, as it turned out to be quite the niche yet fascinating subject!
Thanks for watching. I'm glad you did. ...Roy
Enrique262
lol same here
Hi from New Zealand. until moving cities last year, I was part of an active US HO modelling group operating ever two weeks across six (and occasionally a seventh) layouts six of which had helices. These layouts simply would not function without them so despite all the issues you have "correctly" identified, unless there is the space for gradients, the moral of the story is they are an essential necessity... I do enjoy your YT clips, thanks for taking the time to put them together.
Hi Brent! It's really good to hear from you. You are absolutely right: Helices are often a necessity, and that's why we have them. The trick, I guess, is to make sure they are built well and function without problems. It's a pleasure to share the hobby with you. ...Roy
Excellent training. Cheers!
I like the helix because it does make the train disappear for a while. One knows not where it will emerge if one is a new viewer of the layout. Part of the fun is taken away on completely open layouts.
Thanks for your comment, Coleman. A number of subscribers and viewers have said much the same thing that you said. One of the reasons they like helices is precisely because trains disappear from sight for while, adding to the mystery and excitement of model railroading. Once a train disappears from sight into a helix, it appears as though it's headed for towns off-layout and passing through them, and through time, before reaching its destination in the staging yard. Again, thanks for your comment. I appreciate it. ...Roy
By the way, a train lift is a tough thing to build as the trains get longer. A 20-car HO (steam era) freight train is at least 10 feet long, and 20 cars is the approximate minimum to give that "mile-long freight train" impression we North American railroaders love. A 12 foot train-lift, with counterweights, is going to weigh a lot if you make it from aluminium!
Incidentally, it is easy to put in physical gates attached to the bridge as it lifts and lowers so none of your trains take a fatal scale 600 foot plunge to the floor.
I have never built either type, but apparently it is possible to just hinge one end, and rotate the bridge. However, that also requires well-planned vertical curve so the trains can negotiate the passage on and off the bridge.
I recommend studying UK model techniques closely, because they model a prototype that historically ran relatively short trains, compared to North America, Europe, etc. That's why UK modelers can use fiddle yards, train lifts, all kinds of tricks to enjoy model railroading in their smaller homes. UK steam-era railroads also used a lot of tender locomotives so the steamers can be run in both directions without being turned. The Great Western Ry. even developed a fleet of steam-powered bi-directional passenger trains ("Autotrains")), where the "driver" could run the train from the front coach as the steam engine pushed the train from the "rear"; i.e., GWR did with steam power what we now call "push-pull" in today's diesel-powered trains. The steamer could also be run in the middle of the train with controls on both ends. So anyway, their prototype is model-genic, as the late John Armstrong (1920-2004) pointed out.
* * *
BTW, my theory about why a 10-15 foot freight train (8 car passenger train) looks "right" on a model railroad is that this is enough length for us to not be able to see the engine and last car at the same time. The experience of watching a train is seeing the engine, then watching all the cars go by, until the caboose, pusher engine, last car comes into view. Then we usually turn our heads and watch the tail end disappear. That 30 car "drag freight" looks great because we get to experience the joy of train-watching in model form.
Another problem is that no matter how much space (and money) is available, model railroaders compress space to give the impression the train is going somewhere. It is one thing to see the locomotive pop out of Tunnel 4 while the caboose is crossing Bear Creek trestle. It is quite another when the head end power is threading the alpine splendor of Threadneedle Canyon while the caboose is still out in the Tabletop Desert.
Having just said that, a 10 car O Scale train (or 4 car passenger train) looks too short on a model railroad, even though it is the length of a 20 car HO Scale train. I think it is because our brain counts up to 10 (or 4) too easily. I think that one of many reasons why pre-1960 modeling is popular is that a train of 20 boxcar red and black freight cars tends to lull the brain as it unconsciously counts cars, compared to a 15 car string of brightly-colored modern cars. Have you ever noticed how a model unit coal train or unit COFC/TOFC train seems longer than a train of unique cars, i.e., the local way-freight?
Ironically, if you see a "full-scale" train on a club railroad--say 80 cars or more--it seems to go on forever and a day. Not only is that kind of boring to watch, but all kinds of real-world "train dynamics" issues appear like broken couplers, slack that runs in at the wrong time, or just the whole train tips itself over on a sharp curve. We want our trains to operate like the prototype, but that does not include trains that snap in two or pull themselves over while circling a minimum radius curve. No doubt the real railroads wish they could keep their trains 20-30 cars long and still be competitive. LOL
Hope that helps you enjoy your model railroad.
Thanks for your comprehensive comment. I really appreciate it. I have seen commercially-available "elevators" for model railroads on the Internet, but I think I'll end up reducing the number of helices on my layout from two to one. We'll see. Thanks for suggesting a look-see at the techniques used by modelers in the UK. I have seen examples of very impressive layouts in the UK. The scenery work is especially convincing. I have seen layouts in the U.S. with trains that are 100 to 200 cars long, but of course, those are really big layouts. On my rather small layout, trains exceeding 25 cars just don't look right. ...Roy
"John Armstrong on Creative Layout Design" by John Armstrong (Kalambach Pub. 1978) , long out-of -print, but still available used, is where I learned about the idea of train lifts. He also has a section about British train modeling there.
"Designing and Building Multi-Deck Model Railroads" by Tony Koester (Kalambach Pub. 2008) is probably a good reference for you before you do anything else. However, check Armstrong's book if Koester's book doesn't satisfy you. Good luck!
Why is this is my recommended
RUclips algorithm.
Well, the video was actually interesting although I know nothing about this stuff. Thank you!
I suspect I was send here because I watch Keith Appleton but the algorythm should send me to machining videos :-)
I was routed here by the algorithm too but I find your video strangely fascinating! I never knew about the strange world of model trains. Thanks for the video!
I got here because I watched a video about the Japanese bullet train. I'd got to that by watching a video about technology and that by a video about computers. This is what happens when you surf RUclips, you find out stuff you never knew about. It's always a joy to learn and if you have mental discipline you can always not click on the thumbnail or stop the video. Simplz
I built two 1% grade connection tracks off the north end of the junction . Both are off the Butler subdivision main within the Butler junction limits to access the Rocky Run subdivision for either northbound or southbound moves to or from the 2nd level which work well and are nicely integrated into the layout . Just tried to keep it simple....
I am always impressed with people who have the creativity and stamina to design and construct such a complicated layout. The best I could do was use a 4x8 sheet of plywood when I was a kid to design mine.
A 4x8 sheet is a great place to start, Brian. Who knows where that will lead to? ...Roy
Why am I watching this video? I don't even own miniature trains
Because miniature trains are cute.
Because it gave you a reason for making a RUclips miniature comment.
When the trains enter the helix, they are temporarily transported to a magical world, where trains are the most intelligent species. They go there to mate. Once their mating is complete, they return to your home at a speed that suits them.
Absolute genius
Im glad this was in my recommend videos.
I feel like this is what I'll be like in about 50-60 years.
Great content 👌 👌 👌 👌
I'm glad RUclips recommended it to you, too. Thanks for watching. ...Roy
Very interesting video. Thanks for posting this.
"Uncouplings and derailments tend to occur on the hardest to reach places of the layout." Oh, how I WISH you had known my father back in the 1950s!!! Daddy bought OS model trains before the birth of his first two children, obviously expecting boys. He got daughters instead (and, for the third baby, he chose NOT to buy a model train to break the jinx, but got a daughter when she was born, too). Those two trains formed the basis of our Christmas tree display each year. Every single uncoupling/derailment occurred at the back corner behind the tree which was just about impossible to reach. I'm laughing now at the memory of his swearing and my mother--a bit more agile and less upset--coming into the lay-out covered living room to assist him in getting the derailed/uncoupled cars out of that corner and onto the long straightaway at the front of the display. Thanks for your vlog and for reviving a childhood memory. (By the way, I bough my son an HO model train for his childhood--but I waited until after he was born to buy it for him--no jinx).
Thanks for sharing your memories. I really enjoyed reading about them. I know what you mean: Uncouplings and derailments always occur in the most inaccessible places on the layout. That seems to be a rule in model railroading. Sometimes I curse a lot, too. Of course, I always edit it out of the videos before uploading them. Ha! ...Roy
N-Scale UPES--Thank you for the kind words.
You guys realize that the RUclips Recommendation Algorithm is more intelligent than you by several orders of magnitude?
Just accept it's decisions and watch the video.
I am pretty sure you do not understand what intelligence is or how artificial intelligence functions.
LET US ACCEPT OUR ROBOTIC OVERLORDS
Thanks for all the great thoughts on Helix's! I am looking at building a room for my trains and would like to go from the table to above the doors for a boarder track. This video gave me some good things to think about!
when i was a kid my dad would take me to our towns model railroad club. I still remember all the great guys like yourself who made it all possible. thanks to all model railroad guys everywhere!
Thanks so much for your comment. Model railroading teally is the world’s greatest hobby, whether we do it by ourselves or by interacting with others in a club. ...Roy
You mentioned the difficulty of cleaning the track in your helix. I suggest that you design and construct a special rail car for that purpose, and then patent and sell it and become rich and build yourself a BIGGER layout that needs no helix.
I use a CMX track cleaning car, Craig. I guess that will have to do. ...Roy
Since I myself am not a model railroader, I was not aware that such a thing already existed. I guess you'll have to get rich some other way. Perhaps design an engine that continuously cleans the track.
Roy, Years ago,when I was young, I made a HO scale track cleaning engine, which had a pad of scotch bright attached below the center of the engine. By adding weight, and using an engine which powered both trucks, this slowly would clean poor quality HO track without derailing, if given a few hours to clean the tack by doing dozens of passes...
I can't wait until I retire.
I know what your mean, Adam. Being retired is the best "job" I've ever had. ...Roy
So then don't wait until you retire!
Nice video, interesting and I understood the humour in suggesting that "the trains running the eastern helix take an incredible time". Thanks for showing your hobby.
Thanks for your comment, Fred. I really appreciate it. Sharing the hobby is one of the best thingsabout model railroading. ...Roy
Lovely video, thank you for making it!
What a cool little video, this makes me miss the big HO system I had with my Father way, way, way back in the day.
Thanks, my friend. I appreciate your comment. ...Roy
@@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569 You're very special Roy and we all appreciate your (well presented) take on things!
According to the southern transportation documentary Dukes Of Hazard,
you just have the trains _jump_ to upper and lower decks... preferably while a horn toots Dixie
Does that mean all the engines need a "01" painted on the side?
I learned a lot about helixes from this. I honestly had no idea what they were before this vid
Dylan, one of the nice things about model railroading is that there is always something new to learn. ...Roy
RUclips just gave me your channel as a suggestion and I enjoyed your humor and your content. You have a nice layout. I used to run HO 35 years ago so I subscribed. Cheers!
Thank you, Peter. I appreciate your comment. I don't really know how the RUclips algorithm works, but I do know that RUclips suggested this video to a lot of people. Thanks for watching. ...Roy
I am actually building a helix due to the small amount of space I have and I actually WANT the train to be gone for some amount of time. I have a 3.5’ x 6’ layout and I am planning to add two helix’s to each side. This will allow me to run multiple trains on my small layout and have some disappear for some time allowing other to use the layout and still run and have many trains on the track at one time. Below the table where the helix connects I am going to add on a large yard to house different trains to dispatch and head up the helix to the layout.
Make some cutouts in the helix fascia and cover them with curtains when you don't need to access the track. This way they are more accessible than they are when you have to crawl under the table, and they are still concealed when you don't need to see the unsightly helix (which should be most of the time).
And the curtains can be as plain or as fancy as you want to blend in (or not blend in) with your scenery.
I agree: opening up the fascia would be the first logical step to take before doing anything totally drastic like ripping out the helix altogether. ...Roy
Thank you for your views on helixes. Back in the 80s I had a long, obscured tunnel section which had a small open section for track cleaning. I was a nightmare. Derailments and damage to consists was always a possibility. OUT IT WENT. Simplicity is best, don't stress.
Always loved this scale of model trains!
Just caught your channel for the first time this morning and I like it. I presume that you take the time to script your presentations because I don't observe the stammering, ums, and long pauses mid-sentence that drive me to distraction on other channels. So, if you do this unscripted, my hat's off to you for your natural talent. Anyway: I appreciate your work and am learning from you.
Thanks, Rob. I really appreciate your very nice comment. Yes, my videos are scripted, at least to an extent. I don't want to waste people's time with a lot of stammering and painful pauses. It's a ton of fun to share the world's most amazing hobby with you. ...Roy
The Helix is also a track eater. How many feet of flex track did you use on it?
I liked the detail of the hopper car at the end of the tanker train. That shows a serious familiarity with railroad operations.
Thanks, Fred. We normally refer to them as buffer cars. There's actually two of them. The one at the front of the train helps to protect the onboard crew in case the tank cars derail and explode. The one at the rear of the train is there in case the railroad decides to add a distributed power unit at the end of the train. ...Roy
Very interesting. Have a nice day now.
Thanks, Kurt. You, too. ...Roy
You can install a video camera inside the helix or even several to monitor the trains. If you use several, maybe cheap webcams and led strips?
Nice presentation! Thank you. Even though a helix might have the dilemmas you mentioned, yet it can also still be unavoidable for layouts with multiple operating levels and not enough room for gradual straight-line descents and ascents. I see no difficulty with leaving the helix open and visible: kids won't care that it might not be normal in real-life operations and adults will understand why it's being used on a layout. Plus helixes are indeed found in the real world - the Swiss have (at least) one that I'm aware of (although it's not a perfect circle), and who knows where else they might be found. So leave it open and maybe even dress it up with scenery, etc. (or not) - have fun with it! Either that or make sure the helix is accessible for cleaning, repairs, and derailments. You might even consider adding a third (and fourth?) operating level to your layout! Enjoy!
George, thank you for your very nice comment and analysis of helicies. I want you to know how much I appreciate it. I also want you to know that it's a real pleasure to share the hobby with you. ...Roy
Roy, you're awesome. Love the layout!
Thank you, Keith. You are very kind. I really appreciate it. ...Roy
nice work on the track, great video.
Thanks, Rebus. I appreciate your comment. ...Roy
Why is this in my recommended videos, and why am I watching it
Seriously I watched the whole thing keep the helix and open it up
Me too. Haven't touched a model train since I was kid. I would just make the covers on the helix removable so you can hide the tracks when running and open it up when you need access.
One thing: Always have the track going up be on the outer side of the helix, there the gradient is smaller. Here in Switzerland even the real railroads do that. As they drive on the left side, most curves are going right. A almost helix in real life can be found here (46.4250745 8.9079617)
2018 video done like 2000's
love it!
Seems like the same thing happens on my layout, I model in HO, and still use my childhood AHM diesels and some new Bachman and Athearn power also. Nick
A well presented video and editorial. Further, your track, trains, and scenery look quite nice.
I don't truly get your beef with helixes, however. 1) At the speed your trains are traveling I would imagine they would reach the staging level within 40 seconds. If that's too long for you we might conclude you're a little impatient! Helixes can make us feel as if we are train chasing if we use our imagination: out in the field we sometimes cannot access trackage and must push on to the next site where we can see our chase once again. In these instances sometimes we can hear the train (at distance) but still can't get close to it. Our model railroad helixes perform exactly the same duty. Sip your beverage of choice for 30 seconds. 2) Running trains often keeps track (yes, even helix trackage) quite clean. I haven't cleaned track in years. 3) If your track in your helix is bulletproof as you advise, you should be experiencing zero derailments. The only time I see the inside of any of my helixes is when I'm curious to study a spider or two. 4) Yes, cutting access windows in the fascia to view a helix can be an improvement, as you have done on your western helix. This is an opportunity to make a portion of one revolution a shadowbox scene of sorts: deepen the inside radius portion to make a deeper, fully scenicked scene. Ask me how I know! Use your imagination. 5) Throw out most "rules" about building a helix. I am an HO modeler. I have four helixes on my layout. Each utilizes 22" radius sectional track (easy laying within the confines of the helix superstructure - it's pre-curved, not unwieldy like flextrack), and my grade is 3.5%, thus 3.25" of elevation change per revolution. Therefore my footprint is a 4' circle. Most would tell you this is insanity. I will tell you trains operate flawlessly at any speed (even lightning fast, when required to stage trains) in either direction. Forget about how goofy your locos look on this radius, and that your long cars will overhang unrealistically - who's going to see it? The spiders, that's all.
I'm not knocking your opinion, I'm merely offering a counter argument. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Keep railroading!
Good point, David. Thank you for your thoughtful comment. I have no real objection to helixes as long as they are trouble-free, but I start getting cranky when I have to duck under the layout to fix a derailment. ...Roy
Well then we all need to tend to our helix track geometry so that we'll only be seeing spiders and no ducks.
you need to hire some kids to graffiti a couple of those rail cars . thats the one thing model railroads always seem to be missing
I agree. Graffiti is very common on prototype railroads, and many modelers do put it on their rolling stock. I plan to add graffiti and weathering to my rolling stock. I haven't had a chance to do it yet, but it is on my To-Do List. ...Roy
there are decals available.
It may be why so many model RRs choose a time in the past when this sort of vandalism didn't exist.
+Dead Frt West I doubt it was ever totally absent at any time in railway history after all humans have been satisfying their urge to leave markings in artefacts and on walls millennia before we figured out the whole farming thing let alone building railways. Of course back when the railway was pretty much the way to move people and goods would likely have been harder to get a long time without any onlookers to graffiti rolling stock and certainly the old fashioned tin of paint and a brush makes things considerably slower than modern spray paints which would make it even harder to create such large designs.
Still I highly doubt that even with the added difficulty and the lower population of people to try, there was likely never a time with zero examples of graffiti occurring on railway property even way back in the 19th century it's just too much of a longstanding part of human nature to stick an "I was here message" on stuff. And there have always been people that suck at restraining their baser impulses especially after several fermented beverages.
I think these days the attitude has changed a little though. As long as regulatory markings or particular company logos aren't obscured, or if there's nothing particularly obscene to the tag, then it's like "Hey! Free paint job." Companies get to spend a little less on corrosion control. Seems odd at first, but that's what I've heard about it. (They're actually more worried about liability due to trespass or possible theft or property damage in regards to cargo, than the tags on the rail cars.)
When talking about Helixs, most people think of a "pure" Helix where there is a constant radius and grade. By changing the radius and gradient, you can do some interesting things. Think of a spiral and a mountain. By having a larger radius at the base of the mountain, you can have track that that, instead of going over the top of the base layer, tightens up a bit and is offset - this lessens the grade and lets you build a mountainside. Utilizing this and a "helix" that is more of an oval gives you a lot more options (although may not be prototypical for your area).
Indeed, Don. In fact I mentioned variations of the spiral helix in a video I uploaded yesterday called "Your Comments about Helices." ...Roy
Hi Roy. I for one appreciate your video. I have started my own N scale collection years ago but have not been able to start any kind of layout. I like to listen to advise of model railroaders so that some day I may have at least a modest layout of my own. Thank you.
Thank you for your very nice comment, Billy. I really appreciate it. I think a "modest" layout is a great place for any aspiring model railroader to start. Have you thought of doing a shelf-style layout or a modular-type layout to begin with? I think it's always a good idea to keep our layouts simple, no matter how much time we have in the hobby. I hope you will keep watching, because I have tons of ideas for more videos. ...Roy
I plan on having multiple custom helixes under my layout so I can have the train disappear for long periods of time. I don’t like the idea of having my train constantly being viewable on the layout and having it loop around every 60 seconds. I think making the trains disappear in the hidden helix is more prototypical since I have a small layout.
I like the bridge idea. Maybe even a draw bridge if it impedes foot traffic
Was looking for a video that explained what a helix is. This was perfect! :)
Mike, I'm glad the video provided you an explanation of what a helix is. In simplest terms, they're a way of from one level of a layout to another level. They're very common, although they can be problematical and most people don't like them very much. ...Roy
What I loved is the portal at the top of Soldiers Summit, between Price and Spanish Fork, UT, I built a representation of that Portal using n-Gauge track etc. back in 1980, I gave it to my Son for Christmas. He didn't appreciate it and my work went by the wayside. I was a pretty fair modeler, but since he was never interested, it stopped. Keep it up.
Thanks for your comment, Mike. Perhaps you will come back to the hobby someday. That would be great. ...Roy
I would put something like 2 hinged doors into the grey wall, so you can expose the trains for any visitors and keep them closed when you're alone and don't want to see the helix. And if you still like to build a bridge, why not that too? Just make it so that a train has the option to drive straight onto the bridge, or turn left into the helix tunnel. I really wouldn't want to waste the work that went into the helix. With the addition of a bridge, you can avoid using it (less maintenance needed?) and alternate between using it and using the bridge, in case of guests.
I’m just glad the trains finally made it. I was getting concerned.
I love your videos! I am a freelance HO scale modeler and my highest inventory of roadnames is CSX, behind that is UP, and third is Amtrak
Thanks so much for your comment, HappyWoffle. I really appreciate it. ...Roy
Excellent. All great points. My solution would be to have a hinged bridge that acts like a bascule bridge allowing access to the center of the layout without any "duck unders". Simple is good.
My advice... make access to the helix 100% all around by not having any permanently fixed fascia and instead use 'magnetically' mounted/removable panels where the fascia would be 👌
This is the though I had as well but with velcro though I do like the idea of magnets instead. Velcro would eventually catch the dust bunnies though.
This was actually funnier than I though it would be!
As a helix builder, I can relate to some of those six reasons (mainly, nos. 4 and 5). Some of the other reasons (mainly, nos. 3 and 6) are actually the reasons why I like helices, whereas the remainder of the lot are no issues with me - not yet, anyway.
A helix is a great challenge and it can occasion great moments of joy when it has been build and trains are finally running on it.
P.S. But where are three of the trains going into the helix? Four went in, only one cam out!
The blaenau ffestiniog railway in Wales uses a single helix loop to navigate a mountain pass. From the rear of the train you can see the engine that is pulling the train exiting the loop travelling in a perpendicular direction. They use double articulated bogies on the locomotives to manage the tight track radii.
I’m planning to build some small helixes into my small layout. I have very little space and I want to incorporate a helix inspired by the bernina express spiral element so I can add a viaduct bridge inspired by the Landwasser. This is very informative so Thankyou!
Great googley moogley. This video blew up! Congrats.
It certainly did, Ron. What a big surprise it has been, and I'm very happy about that. ...Roy
I'm not a train model enthusiast, but I love technical problems and making solutions for them.. First.. Derailments and simplicity. I'm not sure how your power distribution looks, but i'd assume you have multiple power supplies for different sections or runs of track?
If this is the case, you can simply place an ammeter inline with the power supply for the helix. This will tell you several things.. It will tell you if the cars derailed (current drops to 0A), it can tell you if the trains crashed in the helix (current increases substantially as an engine tries motoring through the wreckage. And last.. It can possibly indicate a dirty track and even WHERE you have dirty track (Current draw is inconsistent and has a bunch of spikes from engines connecting and disconnecting from the track.)
Furthermore.. Not a legitimate model car, but, it is possible that you can clean track by abrasive or chemical means using a car to do it for you within the helix. It doesn't have to be manual labor. ESPECIALLY because you have a motive force (The engine) and you have an electric track. For chemical cleaning, you can make a tank car an actual tank car where you put some cleaner in the tank which can feed a piece of felt, which is dragged along the track in front of the tank car and you can even add some drying/scrubbing pads to the rear of the car for a multiple pass cleaning.
You also have an electrified track. this means you can fit a soda ash car with metal wheels and electric pads that you can connect to a drive motor. You can use this motor to drive a pair of buffing wheels that ride atop the tracks with minimal force, be sand paper, scotch brite, or even a pair of small buffing wheels. attach this car to the back of an engine and drag it through the helix. if it is setup properly, it would be a very low effort maintenance cleaning of the helix, or the rest of the track for that matter..
or, you just buy a track cleaning car for $40.. LOL
Thanks for all of the information and suggestions you have provided. I really appreciate it. I’m afraid any kind of detection system is beyond my current abilities. That’s why I need to be able to actually see my trains running in the helix. As for track cleaning, I use a CMX track cleaning car with alcohol in it, pushed (or pulled) by a loco down the helix. ...Roy
The ammeter idea is easy if you are still using a DC power pack -- just get a throttle with a built-in meter, or find a dual-polarity ammeter and wire it in series between the throttle and the railroad.
If you are using DCC, you should isolate the helix and connect the ammeter in series with the track power supply.
If you want to see the train progress along the track--i.e., get a view that looks like a prototype dispatching center--set up a bunch of photo-detectors so they are blocked when a train is over them, and then fit indicating lights (LEDs, probably) on a board so you can tell if Extra 1313 needs a shove.
Still the easiest system is to replace the fascia with transparent plastic, and use your Mark I eyeballs to see if the train is still moving.
A couple of mirrors is probably an easier solution ... put a dome mirror under the roof and an angled mirror on a block on the floor. That way you can move it out of the way when you have to climb in there.
The geeky solution would be a camera and screen - I suspect a video doorbell system would work and those tend to be cheap, all you need is a wide-angle camera and a small screen. Glance at the screen, if there's no movement you have a problem :)
I hadn't considered cleaning as a hindrance to using helix. Food for thought, thank you.
That is a very informative and understandable video, thank you sir!
Thank you so much. I really appreciate your comment. I am going to try to upload a new video every Saturday morning. ...Roy
Have you considered putting a FPV (first person view) camera system on your trains? You could watch from the inside of the trains and enjoy/monitor your trains.
I do have a mini-cam, Vizzy, and I've run it around my layout on a flat car. But i've never been happy with the quality of videos it produces. Eventually, I will get a new, and hopefully better, one. ...Roy
i'd just pay the US military 5 trillion dollars to develop the stargate and then instantly teleport the train from the upper level to the lower level
You can't connect two stargates on the same planet. It's like you don't even know wormhole physics.
oh shit i forgot about that!!!
But you could get ancient style Atlantis teleporters
Stargates are also one way. Also, the US didn't make them, the ancients did.
no, yeah, i actually know that, it was a joke.
Boy Roy! Sometimes railroads need to be built in the worst of places. I would open up the fascia. The spacers might be able to be replaced with ones with thinner profiles. On the viewed side I would install some hidden string lights behind very narrow fascia, flat scenery backdrops, and maybe some smile (scale mile) markers and station name or two.. Then just watch the trains roll. You would be able to clean at least half the track without going underneath. If you still really hate it enough build another one, then tear it out and start all over. Sometimes railroads need to be built in the worst of places. Mike
Thanks for your suggestions, Mike. I appreciate them. Opening the fascia certainly would make the trains visible. That alone would be a major improvement. And opening the fascia would also make at least half of the helix accessible in case of a derailment. As trains descend the helix, they go through a series of towns before reaching the staging tracks representing Cheyenne, Wyoming. Those towns could be labeled on the helix supports, just to make it more interesting. I haven't decided what I'll do yet, but I'm sure I will make some changes eventually. ...Roy
Thanks for the video. Nice layout.
Doing the video was fun. Thanks for your comment. ...Roy
No idea how I got here...
Probably controversial, but I actually like the look of helixes. Then again, I'm not necessarily a model railroader, more of a train enthusiast that likes model trains. I found plans for a small n-gauge track that has 2 prominant helixes incorporated to allow for more running room in a small space, and I absolutely love it!
Thanks for your comment, Nathan. Helices certainly have a place on our layouts, and that's why so many model railroaders use them. ...Roy
Thanks for putting me of helixes before I tried to create two-X-six track helixes!
Thanks for watching and commenting, Stephen. Helixes (or helices) serve their intended purpose of taking trains from one level to another level of a multi-level layout. However, they are challenging to build and operate. ...Roy
I only want to create a six track (six platform faces) station without any points (no turnouts) each track a simple tail-chaser. I will try hiding the return tracks behind a backscene, one pair climbing, one falling and the third pair on the level... so that the six tracks stack on top of each other in the space of just two. I don't know whether this can be done in the space...
What you are planning to do sounds great, Stephen. I like it because we model railroaders are often tempted to build layouts that are too big and too complicated. Quite often, a smaller, simpler layout is better. ...Roy
I just want to get full length British trains within the length of the platforms - ie ten coaches (cars) plus locomotive. Ideally each circuit of track would be long enough to hold two trains, making twelve altogether. Speeds would be slow and there would be enough interest I think. It would represent the original engineering chiefs' intention to go over directly from their BR standard steam locos to electric traction. As it turned out this was unaffordable. US practice and terminology is very different huh? The scale of US operations is very impressive and I was pleased to see some American consists close up in South Carolina a couple of years ago. What really does it for me are the multi-tone horns and three or four magnificent locos on the point. Evocative! I'll be coming over to ride behind the Big Boy when UP have completed the restoration. They are doing an amazing job. I like to imagine what Richard Trevithick would say if he'd had a chance to see one!
Great points. I am in the first stages of planning.
Thanks for your comment. Planning a layout as you are now doing can take a lot of time, but it's also an exciting part of the hobby. You will be creating something that is uniquely yours. ...Roy
I feel like the helix could be replaced with a long grade, which can add lots of scenery space along the tracks for hills, trees, backdrop buildings, etc.
I’m planning a new layout I don’t wanna do a helix cause I think it’ll be a pain but I wanna do 3 levels of track and the room is only 13x13 so I’m gonna try
Informative
Thank you. ...Roy
Your previous videon on Helixes, did make me ditch a design similar to your Eastern one.
In fact since it is a mountainous layout, I am more thinking of making a winding double track that climbs and decends down to the lower level, being fully open, except for some tunnels and the like where the track needs to cross.
I was thinking of using one of those motorized office tables that have various preset levels as an elevator from one layer to another. Just put a loop on it to hold a large train then raise and lower the whole section.
Sounds like a great idea! I'd love to try it. ...Roy
Ugh, it's a little spooky that the trains just disappear like that, time slip stuff
Why did youtube suggest this to me.
Never mind, I'm hooked...
RUclips suggestions are a mystery to me, too, but I’m certainly glad you’re “hooked.” I try to upload a new video about model railroading every Saturday morning. ...Roy
I wandered around in the yard several times during the years we lived in Evanston, brought back the years before.
I love to hear from people who know first-hand the area I’m modeling, Mike. Your comments hellp me capture “the feel” of the area. ...Roy
Roy, I have considered the issues you presented and come up with a solution for my multi level layout. I am using loops at the ends of long inclines against the back of different levels of my layout, this allows single loops at each end that can have landscape modeled. Though the ceiling is a bit low to the next loop for me, that all depends on the length of the yard level back wall and how much slope one can fit. So the basic idea is a 270 turn and running along the back of the layout in front or behind the scenery.
These long gradients can have flat scenery behind the track and a short area of scenery in front, and one can see the trains progress. Reverses at each end, and with enough slope in between each end turn can be a modeled horseshoe layout area. Either a normal horseshoe or an over/under tehachapi style loop. The turns at the end drop the grade enough it can proceed under itself keeping it all flat along the back wall. So instead of a helix a narrow shelf layout inside the main layout. You can use the sections of a preexisting helix to build it, nice start since the curves are perfect you just need like 270 degrees of a turn. Most of the track is just straight all along the back of the yard, just 2-3 inches wide.
If its 2% to drop 8 inches, it will be the same length of track and time you just will be able to play with it and model it instead of the helix issues of being so darn unrealistic and difficult. Some areas could be wider and more modeled, like 4-6 inches and a little station or something. That is what I plan on doing to have more stops for my passenger trains, since a single siding and platform and flat image of the station will fit nicely in a narrow space.
In the process of building this style multi level layout, sawdust everywhere and tools and lumber spread about, and will have an update on it soon.
Wow. How did I find this? RUclips changed its algorithms I think. Wonderful.
Since you asked, I'd probably go with the bridge.
You and me both bud, wondering how I got here. lol
I think the bridge is the best idea.
I am fixing to build a n scale layout that operates almost like the Paducah & Louisville line in Kentucky. I have about 60ft of wall to build on, I was thinking about a helix to make a loop, so I dont have to run from one yard to the other yard back and forth. I am really stuck on what to do.
Tim, when I was planning my layout in early 2014, I struggled long and hard with whether or not to include a helix in my track plan. I didn't really want a helix, but I also didn't want a duck-under. It didn't occur to me at the time that some sot of drop-down, lift-up, or lift-out bridge might work, along with an around-the-room type layout. At some point, I probably will rip out the hidden helix, so I encourage you to consider alternatives other than a helix if at all possible. ...Roy
Thanks
Hello Roy this is Robert! As You may recall, I told you that I'.m interested in the Horse Shoe Curve and also the NYC subway! But now I'm more inclined in the latter! The Horse Shoe Curve seems a little more complex! In my last posted comment I commented about what kind layout software could be suitable for building O Scale Train layouts! Did You use use one for building your layout? Are there some affordabmle ones available?
If trains disappear in the helix, maybe the tunel entrance is a portal to another dimension.
Papaben Nah, they travel into the future.
Papaben its the bernuea helix{ 🚂🚂🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚂
lol
Why I keep getting strange videos in my recommended.
You do that as a reminder to practice English, so that you will one day say "Why do I keep getting strange videos in my recommended?"
Oh and.... An interesting video btw. And I note, after my lenghty addressing of the helix issue and my solutions, that
*Laurence Perkins* has pretty much the same idea. Which is nice to see.
An elevator, or 'Engine Shed Lift' would solve a lot of grief, backache, head/knee injuries and clock watchingt....
I know this is a dumb question, but what do you recommend the best track cleaner? Im mostly new into trains, and I love watching these vids! THANKS
Thanks, Jared. I appreciate your comment. I think any question is valid, because we're all learning in this hobby as we go. I like to use isopropyl alcohol to clean my track. Sometimes I use it with a clean cloth. Mostly though I use it in my CMX track cleaning car. It really makes a big difference in how well my trains run. ...Roy
I think he's saying use 90% isopropyl instead of 70%.
I would make the fascia easily removable - hang it on clips or something rather than have it screwed in. That would at least give you easier access to most of the helix for maintenance or dealing with any problems.
This was my thought as well! It might not help with the rear of the helix, but at least derailments on the front can be tended to rather easily.
Opening up the fascia is probably the first thing I should do, Ray. Later on, I may make more drastic changes, but I'm just not sure yet. ...Roy
Thanks for your reply. I am currently planning my own layout, and like you, I like to watch the long unit trains run. However, I am also limited to a small space, so my plans so far include N scale, a staging yard under a small division yard, and of course of couple of helices. I had even chosen Kato locomotives! I have gone back to watch your videos from the beginning, and they have been a wealth of information. Thanks for creating them. One thing I noticed for the first time in your earlier videos is some doors in the fascia of your eastern helix. I made my suggestion about easily removable fascia before I noticed the doors. Are the doors still there? If not, were they too small to be useful?
Wholesome content
Thanks for watching. I have tons of ideas for more videos. ...Roy
And I'm excited to see them
Have a second identical train already in the helix toward the exit of the helix and run it when the first train finishes entering. Then stop the first train toward the exit, ready to go as the twin train enters the helix.
Nice layout! I want to build that type of mountains, like mid-western, desert-like landscape.