For my helix I replaced the nuts for layering with tubes cut to the same length and a washer on each end of the tube. The helix will get the stability once the nuts on the top are tightened. The washers prevent the tubes from damaging the plywood and keeping the spacing between the layers constant. This saved even more time as no turn in between needed adjustments. Just pile up layer after layer.
Ron, this was the best video on building a helix that I've watched. I'll save this one for the future when I build my own. Love the thread rod option, you can make grade adjustments much more precise and easier than using wooden block supports. I really love the plastic bag tip with the magnet. I'm going to try that one at work when I do any bolt extractions on a machine. Thanks
Hi Ron, thank you for this fantastic video! I've probably watched it a dozen times and have taken lots of notes. After a year in our new house I finally started construction work on my double deck layout. The first stage is building a helix exactly like yours, except with only a 16" elevation gain. The wood is cut for the base legs and frame, so it's time to go get drilling and screwing here!
Ron, this technique was most excellent. Everything about this share was top notch. If anyone has a desire to build a helix this surely is a go to video. You couldn't have been more clear on each step and why. The tip from Eric about the nut spinner is priceless as well as the magnet in the bag. Looking forward to following the rest of your expansion build. Tom
LOL, I will. He was living at home for a month between finishing electrical lineman school and getting his new job. He has moved on to his new place in his new location now. You will occasionally see my younger son for a couple more years though.
Great video! I used the same construction method on my 4 (!) track helix for my N scale layout. Many comments are asking about replacing the nuts/washers with constant length spacers that slide over the threaded rods to maintain constant spacing between levels. Although that would work, it has one big drawback- you are stuck with whatever spacing you cut those spacers to. Although we often don't plan for things to go wrong, the nuts/washers allow you to temporarily create more space between levels if you ever had to get access to track midway through the helix. Just spin the nuts to create more space and spin them back when done. One thing I chose to do with my helix wiring was to run a router across the width of the deck to create channels beneath the tracks. That allowed me to route feeders beneath tracks to reach whatever track I wanted. With 4 tracks in parallel, that was pretty important. I also ran multiple feeders to each turn of the track. Probably wasn't necessary but was easier to do then rather than later. Thanks for posting this video!
Excellent video, Ron! Probably the best helix constriction how-to I’ve seen. As I rebuild the layout, I’m contemplating going double deck and am now watching helix videos which I never had a reason to look at before. At 6’5, I’m a tall one and not sure bending down for a lower level would be best for my aging back. Ha! Decisions, decisions. -Mike
Thanks Ron, They are a lot of work and I will not be building one again. My last one was installed from under the layout into place and it was a bear. Mike
The look is all about taking your time with the jigsaw (mine could be cleaner in spots), making sure your mounting holes are all lined up (despite how I tried I still had a couple that were slightly misaligned), and planning ahead.
For my bench work I would use L girder style. Once completed you can drive a tank on it and it won't budge. You want something square? Use a carpenters square. For the holes for the threaded rods, I would C clamp the road beds together and use a drill press to bore the hole for them. Doing that by hand is a little iffy as you might come in at a slight angle and throw the whole works off. An inexpensive drill press is less than $150.00 and you'll be surprised on how much you'll use it. By the way the foam board gadget for running the nut's down is a great idea. A drill press and a hole saw would have made making that tool a breeze. Nice work on the video! I will probably never build one of these, but the exercise is very interesting!
I don't think I will ever need to park a tank on my layout, and my benchwork is quite sturdy. As for square, I can only assume you are referring to my squaring the frame measuring corner to corner. Something this size is much easier to square this way, and if the measurements match exactly it will be as perfectly square as it can get.
Wow. I was extremely impressed with this video and your work here. Have never watched what it takes to build one of these but have always wondered. That thing is like a masterpiece when done. Great work. Edit to add, I just purchased that level from your link as well. I can really use that thing. Thanks!
Hey Ron, Great video, i learned a lot about building a helix, which is something I would like to do in the further to my HO layout. Thanks for sharing this build with us and I am looking forward to the next part of it. Stay safe. Ken
Good tip on the magnet in a plastic bag. Someone may have mentioned this already but... When cutting all-thread put a couple nuts on it first and make the cut above them, then grind/file the end a bit to clean it up. After that, back the nuts off off twisting them in both directions as you take them off to smooth the threads out. It'll make it easier to put new things on the all thread (like your caps). Alternately, you can do the same thing with a thread chaser or die from a tap and die set.
One trick l can think of for laying the flex track in a smooth constant radius. When drawing out the radii with the beam compass (aka trammel) mark out the outer radius of the ties for the outside track and the inside radius for the inner track. Then cut gage pieces that match the tie radii. Clamp them to the correct radio and lay the tlex track against the gage pieces. Besy way to fut the radio to the correct curve is a radius cutting setup on a band saw. The gages capould be cut out 1/8th Masonite. Just make sure that the adhesive doesnt build up on the gages.
Hey Ron, I like the nut turning tool. An easier way to cut that from foam or wood would be a hole saw. You have a good round outside edge without sanding and the hole the mandrel makes would be your center hole! Very nice helix Sir! ...Claude
Once I got that nut driving tool made and started running the drill on high speed I could run a nut down that rod in 10 sec...but there ore 308 nut/washer set in this helix, so yes, I recharged the battery a couple times, and DeWalt batteries last a long time.
Great video and great technique. The only thing I would change is after cutting the first loop, I would use that one as a router jig to cut all the others.
I don't know if I missed the part about securing the helix to the wall or the floor. It could be pretty exciting if you bumped it. Thanks for all the great tips. Bob
Ron next time you have problems where labels were clean off the residue with Lighter Fuel, works a treat. A can of Lighter Fuel us very useful in your tool kit for all sorts of degreasing jobs. Nice vid on a Helix. JonD
Great video Ron on showing how to do this tedious & horrifying project of building a helox. Great idea on using the foam chuck to help with the bolts. I won't be building my helix anytime soon, but really like the way you did it. ~Nathan C. in KC. Oh by the way, the first two module bases of my future layout are built, will start posting my progress on the KCAMANS group page.
There is a RUclips video by a man named Jim Walsh who quite a while ago showed his version of a nut threader consisting of a solid rubber ball on a nut similar to yours but he wrapped the ball with a little electric tape for additional grip. Here’s the additional change he made... he placed an appropriate sized socket over the nut giving more surface area on which to place the spinning ball. As the building crew member responsible for threading the nuts onto the rods of a rather large elliptical shaped HO helix my fingers are forever grateful. Nice job on your helix and terrific video It was like reliving my experience.
Although I agree it is not really needed, I might ask if you considered cork roadbed for your flextrack on the helix. I think it would help deaden the sound resonating from the plywood.
@@RonsTrainsNThings Well I did think you were just going around in circles myself! Has anyone created an auto lift to raise and lower trains to eliminate a helix????? Save the forest! :)
Food for though When making a duel track helix, I start with 2 basic elements. a doubt cross over 5 straight flex 2 straight pieces fasten to the crossover. One piece is the curve to the radius design of the helix, either the the inside or out. I then attach to corresponding straight, making sure which direction I am designing, counterclockwise, or clockwise. then create a parallel matching curve. After both are in place, click the disconnect feature but do not separate. Now click on create helix, making sure that your track hights are set all the same. Once both helix are made, push straight track into curved, and now you have the bottom set track hights. The remaining 2 set at the top height of helix and plug into the ends. Now you have handles to move the helix as a unit and won't lose the ends one could use a regular straight switch. I just find the duel crossover holds rail space easier.
Since WD40 is a solvent not a lubricant you can put a little on a rag or folded paper towel. It takes the sticker glue right off. Another thing I do is put a nut on the rod below a cut. If the thread gets screwed up the nut fixes that when it comes off. HTH
Good job Ron, great to see the construction described so well. I noticed that you had some lumber running vertically with what appeared to be screws fastened into the side of the helix. They are not in the final shots. What was their purpose?
Hi John. Yes, as I installed and adjusted each turn of plywood, I found it easier to keep the joint aligned if I screwed them in place temporarily with that strip of plywood. Once everything was installed it was unnecessary and it was ugly so I removed it.
Here's a 3D printing idea. Once you have 2 turns completed as a height spacer, could a 3D printed sleeve be used between the top of the nut of the lower turn and below the nut of the upper turn to make adjusting even faster?
You are probably aware of this tool but just in case your are not. There is a thing called SWIFTNUT which drives nuts down a rod. Amazon. You might also want to check out a Helix built by Chadwick Model Railway. Episodes 114 & 115 are the relevant items. In a later video he is later pointed towards the digital level. He finds that his trains stall because one of his gradients is 3% not 2%.
@@RonsTrainsNThings Hi. I assumed that Amazon.com would have it. Amazon.co.uk can be search for "swiftnut runner" and shows what Charlie used. I couldn't find it under any search in Amazon .com. Maybe Charlie knows someone who could help.
Hi , just getting started in this hobby again . Had HO years ago , but nothing like your set ups . Don't have the room . I also am a Ham Radio operator and have a great ham shack . But want to do a N gauge 2'x5' layout . Have really enjoyed your video's . But my question is , what is a "Helix" for , what purpose ? Thanks Steve
Nice job Ron. The helix looks quite consistent and solid although I would have been tempted to use 3/8" threaded rod for the extra strength. Tee nuts would also have made securing the first level a bit easier than dealing with a nut top and bottom of the base plate but you have made it work so clearly you got around the extra challenges that posed. One question though, why didn't you fix the end off the helix table that is adjacent to the wall directly to the studs and eliminate two legs?
The short answer is I don't really have a reason. It just seemed logical to me to make it free standing. I certainly could have done that, however, with not issues that I can see.
The outer "main" track is 2%. One thing most do not consider is that having an inner track means it is shorter and thus its grade will be slightly steeper by definition. The inner track is about 2.15%. Both of those are lower than the 2.25% on my old helix.
Good day Ron.. I am in the process of building a new lay that is gonna be a L shaped 2 level shelf layout with a helix at either end.. I'm curious weather I should start with the lower level of upper level 1st... Any help or advice would be awsome thanks and I've definitely learnt alot from your videos
Hi Gary. To be honest, the holes were dictated in height by the level of the decks of the layout. I built the helix to match the level of the layout, not vice versa. As for lateral placement, the lower opening was cut where the track needed to go on the lower deck, and I planned the helix for general placement of the upper opening. I then cut the exact placement of the upper opening when the helix was nearly finished and I could match it up to the upper deck. I hope that makes sense.
I don't know what this means. If you need modern industrial metal structures, Pikestuff is great, very flexible for kitbashing, easy to work with, and affordable.
@@RonsTrainsNThings I tried building with Pikestuff's ecosystem once, and I didn't really have a good experience with it. Maybe I'll have to give it another try when they restock now that I have better equipment.
I may have missed this information. How much elevation did this helix take the train? What was the grade and spacing between levels? Great video thank you for a ton of ideas. Mike
Would it possible to build a helix to access three different levels? Currently, I’m in the design phase of my 10’X8’ layout however, due to space restrictions, I can’t figure out how to access my train storage area under the layout (out of sight, out of my mind) without a second pair of helixes that I don’t have room for! Any thoughts? Your input would greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time Jim
Very nice video, extremely informative. You have me second guessing my decision of using the block method for my helix...lol How old was your old helix, I’m wondering if the block method might last “long enough”. Thank you again for another great video and I am excited for your next one.
The problem i eventually had with my previous helix was th base. I built it on top of existing carpet which led to eventual sagging. I think the block method is still a good way to build a helix IF your base sits on a solid hard surface, you use some sort of adjustable feet under the legs, and you take tile to get the first turn PERFECT in grade and solid. My old helix was 8 years old when I tore it out.
Thank you Ron for the information. I will be building my helix on the same framework as the rest of my small layout; I do like the looks of yours though.
After watching the nutapalooza, it makes me wonder if there is a hybrid approach that might involve using shorter threaded nuts to set the first level grading only and then equal spacer blocks after that to space and hold the remaining levels. After having built a helix using both methods alone do you think there would be any benefit to doing them in combination?
Well, I chose the threaded rod because by the end of its life my old helix needed adjustment that I couldn't do. This allows me to do that. The only other reason I can give would be aesthetic--I really like the way this helix looks as is, consistent all the way up.
Greetings Ron. A couple of questions. You have a great video regarding vertical curves... hills - and I know it is only a 2% shift. At the top of the helix, this 'bump' I am worry about as I have a couple of locos with extra large fuel tanks and insignificant clearance. Find your equipment with the least clearance. In my testing I round this crest out over about 12 inches, and at the bottom I plan to feather in over a few inches too. What are your thoughts? You have the clearance for a cork road bed, why not? Thank-you as always.
At the top of my helix I lessened the grade the last section so the "bump" at the connection to the bridge piece is almost nonexistent. Yes, spreading vertical curves out over several inches will produce much better operating trains.
Very nice helix Ron! With mine being HO scale, I was forced to use several pieces to make a turn. I made a template for 1/8th a turn and used my router to cut out my pieces and instead of using the rod method, I glued 1x4 upright for my first helix build. I will have to look into going this route on my next helix. What grade is your outer track? - Jason
I used the blocks on my format helix but became frustrated with my inability to adjust it over time. This helix is 2% grade on the outer track, 2.1% on the inner.
Say, Ron, would it have been easier to cut metal tubing all to the same length and put them in between the decks to control the distance between each rise?
Technically easier, probably...BUT the purpose of using the threaded rod is to be able to make adjustments if needed, and the tubing would remove that possibility. I may never need to adjust it, but my old helix eventually needed adjustment that I had no ability to make, thus the threaded rod option this time.
Could have had those helix pieces water jet cut. Very precise and could have used your time for other things, unless of course you absolutely like to do all by yourself.
I didn’t see it, or hear it mentioned, but how are you going to keep the nuts from working loose from vibrations of trains over time? I’d imagine that would wreak havoc if they worked loose.
Yes. 1) I wanted to preserve as much overhead clearance as possible. 2) To be electrically bullet proof I wanted all soldered joints, and that is a ton of soldering. 3) Personally, I just don't like the stuff.
I have often wonder why people that use the threaded rod method don't use a pvc spacer over the rod between the first level and each level above it. No need for all the nuts on each level, just the bottom level (top and bottom) to get the grade, and then on the very top to hold all the spacers in place. I wish I could use your method of cutting the wood shapes, but I can find any plywood that's 84x84 for my helix that has a 40 & 37.5 loop. I will cut as much as I can out of one sheet for the bottom level and then I'll use pieces for the rest. BTW, thanks for the level link, I got one right away after your first video.
Then you have to cut all those little tubes and make sure each one is perfect, If you screw up one section it compounds on the section above it as you continue your way up the stack
As I stated in response to another comment, that sounds neat and easy in theory, but not so much in practice. First, the point of the threaded rod is to be able to adjust the thing if needed. My old helix reached a point where it needed adjustment but couldn't be adjusted, thus my choice to use the threaded rod this time. Second, the plywood doesn't naturally fall into the grade, you have to force it to twist into position. If using the block method you pin or screw it into position on every turn. Using tubing for spacers would give you no way to force it into shape until you reached the top. You can't lay track on loose roadbed and expect it to be in shape by the time you reach the top. Glad to hear about the level. I'm sure you will love it.
@@RonsTrainsNThings Thank you. I hadn't though about the trying to lay track on what would be essentially a loose roadbed. I also think that doing a super elevation would be easier with all the nuts as well. I have built a helix using the black method, I am definitely thinking about using the threaded rod for the next build.
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Get tips for building benchwork for your layout in this playlist: ruclips.net/video/SPbYu4OqZAo/видео.html
If you cut half the rods one inch shorter it makes it easier to fit each layer.
Ron your a Chiefs fan!, and a train guy! Your my hero! I watched all your videos and they help me out a lot.Thank you for that. From Gregory.
How 'bout those...Chiefs! 🤘
For my helix I replaced the nuts for layering with tubes cut to the same length and a washer on each end of the tube. The helix will get the stability once the nuts on the top are tightened. The washers prevent the tubes from damaging the plywood and keeping the spacing between the layers constant. This saved even more time as no turn in between needed adjustments. Just pile up layer after layer.
That nut turner tool is pretty ingenious. Very impressive helix.
Thanks, Christopher. Good to hear from you. Hope all is well there. I guess you survived the winter catastrophe there.
Patience pays off. Great job Ron , best Helix I have seen on the web.
Ron, this was the best video on building a helix that I've watched. I'll save this one for the future when I build my own. Love the thread rod option, you can make grade adjustments much more precise and easier than using wooden block supports. I really love the plastic bag tip with the magnet. I'm going to try that one at work when I do any bolt extractions on a machine.
Thanks
Thank you for building and showing us how to do this.
Hi Ron, thank you for this fantastic video! I've probably watched it a dozen times and have taken lots of notes. After a year in our new house I finally started construction work on my double deck layout. The first stage is building a helix exactly like yours, except with only a 16" elevation gain. The wood is cut for the base legs and frame, so it's time to go get drilling and screwing here!
Good luck. Let me know how it turns out.
Ron, this technique was most excellent. Everything about this share was top notch. If anyone has a desire to build a helix this surely is a go to video. You couldn't have been more clear on each step and why. The tip from Eric about the nut spinner is priceless as well as the magnet in the bag. Looking forward to following the rest of your expansion build. Tom
Ron, amazingly complicated & useful helix but you somehow have masterfully explained how to do it quite "easily".
What a masterpiece and a beautiful build too. Thanks for posting this as well. Have a nice day.
Come on man! Let’s see some video of the train running the helix!
Ron ..... You did such a beautiful job on your helix. 🤩 You really impressed me !!!! 👍👍👍👍👍
Very nice job well done Ron.🏆🚂
Excellent work. If I ever get up the nerve to add a second deck, this is the kind of helix I will build. Well done.
i think thats the first video i have seen your son in. tell him he did a good job.
LOL, I will. He was living at home for a month between finishing electrical lineman school and getting his new job. He has moved on to his new place in his new location now. You will occasionally see my younger son for a couple more years though.
Great video! I used the same construction method on my 4 (!) track helix for my N scale layout. Many comments are asking about replacing the nuts/washers with constant length spacers that slide over the threaded rods to maintain constant spacing between levels. Although that would work, it has one big drawback- you are stuck with whatever spacing you cut those spacers to. Although we often don't plan for things to go wrong, the nuts/washers allow you to temporarily create more space between levels if you ever had to get access to track midway through the helix. Just spin the nuts to create more space and spin them back when done.
One thing I chose to do with my helix wiring was to run a router across the width of the deck to create channels beneath the tracks. That allowed me to route feeders beneath tracks to reach whatever track I wanted. With 4 tracks in parallel, that was pretty important. I also ran multiple feeders to each turn of the track. Probably wasn't necessary but was easier to do then rather than later. Thanks for posting this video!
Great job building your helix. Lots of hard work will make it last forever. This is the first helix that was dual track that have seen.👍🚅
Nice work,looks great
Excellent video, Ron! Probably the best helix constriction how-to I’ve seen. As I rebuild the layout, I’m contemplating going double deck and am now watching helix videos which I never had a reason to look at before. At 6’5, I’m a tall one and not sure bending down for a lower level would be best for my aging back. Ha! Decisions, decisions. -Mike
I get that, Mike. I'm 6'2" and 56 so I can relate. 👍🏼👍🏼
Thanks Ron, They are a lot of work and I will not be building one again. My last one was installed from under the layout into place and it was a bear.
Mike
I can imagine that would be a challenge. I'm not as opposed to a helix as some are, but I will be just fine if this is the last one I build.
@@RonsTrainsNThings LOL , That is the pain I am talking about !!!
Good job Ron!
Thanks!
awesome job! great explanations! thank you for your channel!
HELLO RON ITS IS RANDY AND I LIKE U VIDEO AND HELIX IS COOL THANKS RON FRIENDS RANDY
im painting rock castings today using your method, slightly modified but its looking good ron thank you for sharing things
Rock on! LOL. That is great. Hope all continues to go well there. Good luck.
I thank you for this maybe the method I do for my helix too. Much cleaner than any I've seen before...thanks for sharing 👍👍👍👍👍
The look is all about taking your time with the jigsaw (mine could be cleaner in spots), making sure your mounting holes are all lined up (despite how I tried I still had a couple that were slightly misaligned), and planning ahead.
Very informative on how to build an helixe.
Hello Ron, this is a most excellent video - yours is one of the few really excellent model railway on-line resources!
Thank you.
For my bench work I would use L girder style. Once completed you can drive a tank on it and it won't budge. You want something square? Use a carpenters square. For the holes for the threaded rods, I would C clamp the road beds together and use a drill press to bore the hole for them. Doing that by hand is a little iffy as you might come in at a slight angle and throw the whole works off. An inexpensive drill press is less than $150.00 and you'll be surprised on how much you'll use it. By the way the foam board gadget for running the nut's down is a great idea. A drill press and a hole saw would have made making that tool a breeze.
Nice work on the video! I will probably never build one of these, but the exercise is very interesting!
"By the way the foam board gadget for running the nut's down is a great idea." Thanks
I don't think I will ever need to park a tank on my layout, and my benchwork is quite sturdy. As for square, I can only assume you are referring to my squaring the frame measuring corner to corner. Something this size is much easier to square this way, and if the measurements match exactly it will be as perfectly square as it can get.
thank you for the detail video
great detail watching
Great work Ron , looks very impressive
Great work Ron.
Nice update.Enjoy it thanks.
Wow. I was extremely impressed with this video and your work here. Have never watched what it takes to build one of these but have always wondered. That thing is like a masterpiece when done. Great work. Edit to add, I just purchased that level from your link as well. I can really use that thing. Thanks!
Hi Ron, what a masterpiece, I built something similar in N gauge too, a 4 track with 60 metres of track , i was glad to get that finished too!!
Great video!
Hey Ron, Great video, i learned a lot about building a helix, which is something I would like to do in the further to my HO layout. Thanks for sharing this build with us and I am looking forward to the next part of it. Stay safe. Ken
Thanks, Ken. Always good to hear from you.
Good tip on the magnet in a plastic bag.
Someone may have mentioned this already but... When cutting all-thread put a couple nuts on it first and make the cut above them, then grind/file the end a bit to clean it up. After that, back the nuts off off twisting them in both directions as you take them off to smooth the threads out. It'll make it easier to put new things on the all thread (like your caps). Alternately, you can do the same thing with a thread chaser or die from a tap and die set.
Very nice looking work!
One trick l can think of for laying the flex track in a smooth constant radius. When drawing out the radii with the beam compass (aka trammel) mark out the outer radius of the ties for the outside track and the inside radius for the inner track. Then cut gage pieces that match the tie radii. Clamp them to the correct radio and lay the tlex track against the gage pieces. Besy way to fut the radio to the correct curve is a radius cutting setup on a band saw. The gages capould be cut out 1/8th Masonite. Just make sure that the adhesive doesnt build up on the gages.
Hey Ron, I like the nut turning tool. An easier way to cut that from foam or wood would be a hole saw. You have a good round outside edge without sanding and the hole the mandrel makes would be your center hole! Very nice helix Sir! ...Claude
I know im definitely using this method. I bet just running the nuts took one 4 amp battery by itself lol
Once I got that nut driving tool made and started running the drill on high speed I could run a nut down that rod in 10 sec...but there ore 308 nut/washer set in this helix, so yes, I recharged the battery a couple times, and DeWalt batteries last a long time.
Great video and great technique. The only thing I would change is after cutting the first loop, I would use that one as a router jig to cut all the others.
Looks good Ron. Bob
I don't know if I missed the part about securing the helix to the wall or the floor. It could be pretty exciting if you bumped it. Thanks for all the great tips.
Bob
I may not have showed it, but I screwed it to the studs after it ws built.
@@RonsTrainsNThings thanks Ron. I figured you probably had but I felt the question had to be asked.
Thanks
Bob
Nice work
Great job!
My idea for the nuts is a vacuum belt/wide rubber band
One end on cordless drill and other end over
nut
Rodney
It's been a while, I have had 2 Heart attacks and 3 strokes. I'm still into model railroading...
Bob Cooney
👍Hi Rod: Happy New Years from Michigan - "Like" Well done video with great tips. 🚂
Ron next time you have problems where labels were clean off the residue with Lighter Fuel, works a treat. A can of Lighter Fuel us very useful in your tool kit for all sorts of degreasing jobs. Nice vid on a Helix. JonD
Interesting. I will give that a try.
Great vid Ron! Take it from me a long time painter. Use a mask when sanding drywall! The silica will reek havoc on your lungs.
Thanks. I normally so, but since this was such a small job...well that's not real excuse, but that's how it went down.
@@RonsTrainsNThings You are an amazing modeler and do so much for this hobby. Just want you around for years to come!
Again superb
Great video Ron on showing how to do this tedious & horrifying project of building a helox. Great idea on using the foam chuck to help with the bolts. I won't be building my helix anytime soon, but really like the way you did it. ~Nathan C. in KC.
Oh by the way, the first two module bases of my future layout are built, will start posting my progress on the KCAMANS group page.
Hi Nathan. I look forward to seeing your progress in that group.
Aqui no brasil as coisas são mais difícil. adoro deus vídeos. Parabéns.
Hey nice video man
There is a RUclips video by a man named Jim Walsh who quite a while ago showed his version of a nut threader consisting of a solid rubber ball on a nut similar to yours but he wrapped the ball with a little electric tape for additional grip. Here’s the additional change he made... he placed an appropriate sized socket over the nut giving more surface area on which to place the spinning ball. As the building crew member responsible for threading the nuts onto the rods of a rather large elliptical shaped HO helix my fingers are forever grateful.
Nice job on your helix and terrific video It was like reliving my experience.
Thank you for all your help. What thickness of plywood did you use?
Nice helix.
is it me, ron your helix is a think of beauty ..................tony
Ron
The wait for the Helix video was well worth it. I was wondering if you could follow up with a video on different train lengths, 25, 45,
Although I agree it is not really needed, I might ask if you considered cork roadbed for your flextrack on the helix. I think it would help deaden the sound resonating from the plywood.
I don'tbreally have a noise problem and overhead clearance is a premium in the helix.
sure looks like allot of work but looks like its well worth it
I do not think this video is on the level, it feels a little twisted and screwed up :)
Lol, someone is going to take this comment seriously. 🤣👍🏼
@@RonsTrainsNThings Well I did think you were just going around in circles myself! Has anyone created an auto lift to raise and lower trains to eliminate a helix????? Save the forest! :)
I can just imagine what someone outside of model railroading would say watching this video... "What the heck are you building?"
Hi after setting up the first helix you should have used a spacer gauge to finish setting up the other helix disc's
Food for though
When making a duel track helix, I start with 2 basic elements.
a doubt cross over
5 straight flex
2 straight pieces fasten to the crossover.
One piece is the curve to the radius design of the helix, either the the inside or out.
I then attach to corresponding straight, making sure which direction I am designing, counterclockwise, or clockwise. then create a parallel matching curve. After both are in place, click the disconnect feature but do not separate.
Now click on create helix, making sure that your track hights are set all the same.
Once both helix are made, push straight track into curved, and now you have the bottom
set track hights. The remaining 2 set at the top height of helix and plug into the ends.
Now you have handles to move the helix as a unit and won't lose the ends
one could use a regular straight switch.
I just find the duel crossover holds rail space easier.
Since WD40 is a solvent not a lubricant you can put a little on a rag or folded paper towel. It takes the sticker glue right off. Another thing I do is put a nut on the rod below a cut. If the thread gets screwed up the nut fixes that when it comes off. HTH
My thoughts as you were painting the new drywall: Either you are very tall, or the ceiling in your layout room is low. :)
As most basements around here, the ceiling is 7'.
Good job Ron, great to see the construction described so well. I noticed that you had some lumber running vertically with what appeared to be screws fastened into the side of the helix. They are not in the final shots. What was their purpose?
Hi John. Yes, as I installed and adjusted each turn of plywood, I found it easier to keep the joint aligned if I screwed them in place temporarily with that strip of plywood. Once everything was installed it was unnecessary and it was ugly so I removed it.
Is there an "easement" between the level portion of the deck and the start of the incline?
Here's a 3D printing idea. Once you have 2 turns completed as a height spacer, could a 3D printed sleeve be used between the top of the nut of the lower turn and below the nut of the upper turn to make adjusting even faster?
What's the grade%? What's the distance between the rings? What's your run (circumference)?
Thank you so much for the great video!
You are probably aware of this tool but just in case your are not. There is a thing called SWIFTNUT which drives nuts down a rod. Amazon. You might also want to check out a Helix built by Chadwick Model Railway. Episodes 114 & 115 are the relevant items. In a later video he is later pointed towards the digital level. He finds that his trains stall because one of his gradients is 3% not 2%.
I watch Chadwick and I am aware. I've never heard of the tool you mentio ed nor can I find it in a search.
@@RonsTrainsNThings Hi. I assumed that Amazon.com would have it. Amazon.co.uk can be search for "swiftnut runner" and shows what Charlie used. I couldn't find it under any search in Amazon .com. Maybe Charlie knows someone who could help.
Hi , just getting started in this hobby again . Had HO years ago , but nothing like your set ups . Don't have the room . I also am a Ham Radio operator and have a great ham shack . But want to do a N gauge 2'x5' layout . Have really enjoyed your video's . But my question is , what is a "Helix" for , what purpose ? Thanks Steve
It connects the levels of a multi-deck layout.
How hard is it to keep the track clean inside the helix?
Nice job Ron. The helix looks quite consistent and solid although I would have been tempted to use 3/8" threaded rod for the extra strength. Tee nuts would also have made securing the first level a bit easier than dealing with a nut top and bottom of the base plate but you have made it work so clearly you got around the extra challenges that posed. One question though, why didn't you fix the end off the helix table that is adjacent to the wall directly to the studs and eliminate two legs?
The short answer is I don't really have a reason. It just seemed logical to me to make it free standing. I certainly could have done that, however, with not issues that I can see.
I can't find the video you said would be coming on wiring the Helix?
ruclips.net/video/DHvfVH8AOJk/видео.html
where did you get the digital level that measures grade?
That helix looks really good. What gradient did you use.
The outer "main" track is 2%. One thing most do not consider is that having an inner track means it is shorter and thus its grade will be slightly steeper by definition. The inner track is about 2.15%. Both of those are lower than the 2.25% on my old helix.
@@RonsTrainsNThings Thanks.
Good day Ron.. I am in the process of building a new lay that is gonna be a L shaped 2 level shelf layout with a helix at either end.. I'm curious weather I should start with the lower level of upper level 1st...
Any help or advice would be awsome thanks and I've definitely learnt alot from your videos
I would start with the lower level. You can make needed minor adjustments at the upper level as your helix reaches that level.
Ron, I noticed that you were spot on with the openings in the wall How difficult was it to locate them prior to building the helix?
Hi Gary. To be honest, the holes were dictated in height by the level of the decks of the layout. I built the helix to match the level of the layout, not vice versa. As for lateral placement, the lower opening was cut where the track needed to go on the lower deck, and I planned the helix for general placement of the upper opening. I then cut the exact placement of the upper opening when the helix was nearly finished and I could match it up to the upper deck. I hope that makes sense.
3:33 I get PTSD when I see a Pikestuff building
Why? Serious question. I've thought about buying their stuff, and have not yet done so. Good stuff? Bad stuff? Plain?
I don't know what this means. If you need modern industrial metal structures, Pikestuff is great, very flexible for kitbashing, easy to work with, and affordable.
@@RonsTrainsNThings I tried building with Pikestuff's ecosystem once, and I didn't really have a good experience with it. Maybe I'll have to give it another try when they restock now that I have better equipment.
I may have missed this information. How much elevation did this helix take the train? What was the grade and spacing between levels? Great video thank you for a ton of ideas.
Mike
Total rise = 24", 2% rise, approx 2" between levels.
@@RonsTrainsNThings Thank you so very much! most helpful. im going to try and CNC cut these pieces of wood.
No video of running the full length of the helix?
Sorry to be terribly late with this advice, but a flush trim router would speed the cutting process immensely
True, but I'm not very good freehanding with a router. What would be ideal is knowing someone with a big CNC machine.
When the train gets to the top of the helix, is there a switch track for the trip down? I'm a new subscriber. Thank you for uploading. Mike
Would it possible to build a helix to access three different levels? Currently, I’m in the design phase of my 10’X8’ layout however, due to space restrictions, I can’t figure out how to access my train storage area under the layout (out of sight, out of my mind) without a second pair of helixes that I don’t have room for! Any thoughts? Your input would greatly appreciated.
Thank you for your time
Jim
Certainly. Just use a curved turnout in the helix where the middle level connects and connect top and bottom as usual.
Very nice video, extremely informative. You have me second guessing my decision of using the block method for my helix...lol How old was your old helix, I’m wondering if the block method might last “long enough”. Thank you again for another great video and I am excited for your next one.
The problem i eventually had with my previous helix was th base. I built it on top of existing carpet which led to eventual sagging. I think the block method is still a good way to build a helix IF your base sits on a solid hard surface, you use some sort of adjustable feet under the legs, and you take tile to get the first turn PERFECT in grade and solid. My old helix was 8 years old when I tore it out.
Thank you Ron for the information. I will be building my helix on the same framework as the rest of my small layout; I do like the looks of yours though.
After watching the nutapalooza, it makes me wonder if there is a hybrid approach that might involve using shorter threaded nuts to set the first level grading only and then equal spacer blocks after that to space and hold the remaining levels. After having built a helix using both methods alone do you think there would be any benefit to doing them in combination?
Well, I chose the threaded rod because by the end of its life my old helix needed adjustment that I couldn't do. This allows me to do that. The only other reason I can give would be aesthetic--I really like the way this helix looks as is, consistent all the way up.
@@RonsTrainsNThings Makes sense!
hi. from someone who knows littl;e about these could you tell me what scale the helix is set for. i am guessing n scale. thanks
Yes, it is N scale.
Greetings Ron. A couple of questions. You have a great video regarding vertical curves... hills - and I know it is only a 2% shift. At the top of the helix, this 'bump' I am worry about as I have a couple of locos with extra large fuel tanks and insignificant clearance. Find your equipment with the least clearance. In my testing I round this crest out over about 12 inches, and at the bottom I plan to feather in over a few inches too. What are your thoughts? You have the clearance for a cork road bed, why not? Thank-you as always.
At the top of my helix I lessened the grade the last section so the "bump" at the connection to the bridge piece is almost nonexistent. Yes, spreading vertical curves out over several inches will produce much better operating trains.
Very nice helix Ron! With mine being HO scale, I was forced to use several pieces to make a turn. I made a template for 1/8th a turn and used my router to cut out my pieces and instead of using the rod method, I glued 1x4 upright for my first helix build. I will have to look into going this route on my next helix. What grade is your outer track? - Jason
I used the blocks on my format helix but became frustrated with my inability to adjust it over time. This helix is 2% grade on the outer track, 2.1% on the inner.
@@RonsTrainsNThings This does seem like the better method for sure.
Say, Ron, would it have been easier to cut metal tubing all to the same length and put them in between the decks to control the distance between each rise?
Technically easier, probably...BUT the purpose of using the threaded rod is to be able to make adjustments if needed, and the tubing would remove that possibility. I may never need to adjust it, but my old helix eventually needed adjustment that I had no ability to make, thus the threaded rod option this time.
Could have had those helix pieces water jet cut. Very precise and could have used your time for other things, unless of course you absolutely like to do all by yourself.
I don't have access personally nor commercially where I live...Plus I don't think water and plywood are a good combination.
I didn’t see it, or hear it mentioned, but how are you going to keep the nuts from working loose from vibrations of trains over time? I’d imagine that would wreak havoc if they worked loose.
Any reason for not using a kato unitrack or equivalent in the helix?
Yes. 1) I wanted to preserve as much overhead clearance as possible. 2) To be electrically bullet proof I wanted all soldered joints, and that is a ton of soldering. 3) Personally, I just don't like the stuff.
I think I'd be using shorter sections of threaded rod and coupling nuts and add one tier at a time, no extra rod, no threading nuts the full length.
I have often wonder why people that use the threaded rod method don't use a pvc spacer over the rod between the first level and each level above it. No need for all the nuts on each level, just the bottom level (top and bottom) to get the grade, and then on the very top to hold all the spacers in place.
I wish I could use your method of cutting the wood shapes, but I can find any plywood that's 84x84 for my helix that has a 40 & 37.5 loop. I will cut as much as I can out of one sheet for the bottom level and then I'll use pieces for the rest.
BTW, thanks for the level link, I got one right away after your first video.
Are all your turns level side to side or is it super elevated. Thanks. Looks great
Then you have to cut all those little tubes and make sure each one is perfect, If you screw up one section it compounds on the section above it as you continue your way up the stack
As I stated in response to another comment, that sounds neat and easy in theory, but not so much in practice. First, the point of the threaded rod is to be able to adjust the thing if needed. My old helix reached a point where it needed adjustment but couldn't be adjusted, thus my choice to use the threaded rod this time. Second, the plywood doesn't naturally fall into the grade, you have to force it to twist into position. If using the block method you pin or screw it into position on every turn. Using tubing for spacers would give you no way to force it into shape until you reached the top. You can't lay track on loose roadbed and expect it to be in shape by the time you reach the top. Glad to hear about the level. I'm sure you will love it.
The entire roadbed in the helix is superelevated about 2%.
@@RonsTrainsNThings Thank you. I hadn't though about the trying to lay track on what would be essentially a loose roadbed. I also think that doing a super elevation would be easier with all the nuts as well. I have built a helix using the black method, I am definitely thinking about using the threaded rod for the next build.
Hi Ron, is there a dramatic reduction in loco pulling power when trains go up the helix? cheers
Certainly upgrade requires more power, and tight curves add friction which require more power as well.