Dr Grande's humor of late I find a questionable choice. I like the guy. He is really intelligent and very insightful. I also like humor. I hope Dr. Grande can fulfill his wishes, on both scores, Informing people and making people laugh with different two different channels.
Omfg "celebrities are experts in just about everything". Your humor that is seasoned throughout your videos is truly impeccable. You do it with a straight face, without going off topic. Once again, another world class upload. Thanks again!
Serving as a judge carries a heavy responsibility, but I actually think that Dr. Grande, because of his logical and impartial approach, would be a very good judge.
He should go to law school. At age 50, a lawyer can have 20 years of practice, depending on the area of law he specializes in, so Dr. Grande is clearly young enough.
Clarissa, first what a nice name my grand mom had the same, second I agree with you. All these "celebs" need to shut up and or go away. I don't know if you know any actors but I have and you wouldn't trust them ever. Also, I'm just tired of everyone worshiping them. It's ridiculous.
It does seem unjust on a systemic level that an impoverished, traumatized 16 year old prostitute who murders her pimp is sentenced to life in prison when a wealthy legally-adult teen like Brock Turner can violently rape a woman (in front of two eyewitnesses) and be out of jail in just three months. I think those sort of disparities are part of what get people so heated. In the face of such naked injustice, people may develop a feeling of “So what if it wasn’t self-defense? Let her out anyway.”
Well she killed a paedophile, so it’s really a “public service homicide”. That’s what we used to call these types of murders. Cold but true. It would’ve even better had she killed the pimp.
Agree with the general idea that justice is not equal but disagree that it necessarily applies here the way you put it. As stated Allen was the John. Maybe. I say maybe because how do we know? He's dead and she isn't exactly a reliable witness. Her life was messed up no doubt and that sucks. It also sucked that she killed a man like she did. I just hate the white washing of cases like this and the emotional manipulation that accompanies it. . Central park 5 is another where the story is quite different from the actual facts. (why did you think Allen was the pimp? This was never mentioned in this video, but that was in the inaccurate Kim Kardashian tweet)
@@Bama_Law how do we know that Allen knew how old she was? I don't even grant that there was an agreement for sex involved because we only have her word and she says they didn't do anything. Even so, I don't agree that Allen deserved to be executed, mostly because I'm not sure we can know if he knew her age.
Dr. Grande must have known that I needed a new video with my coffee... As always thank you very much for keeping up the interesting content Dr. Grande. I really look forward to every new video. To everybody else: Hope you all safe & well (:
I agree that Hollywood seems to think they are experts at everything AND that we should bow to their greater wisdom and insight. Thank goodness I can think for myself. Thanks as always. I love your videos.
Anecdotally, she actually sounds like a classic trauma survivor with severe attachment damage. The baseline mistrust (alluded to, and illustrated in her lifestyle), the potential attachment-interference by habitual substance use (especially starting young), compounded by her having been victimized. Her confabulation might be the typical effort of someone who is frequently dissociating to fill in the gaps in their memory/experience. I grant you that IQ testing is of limited value; it is a common pattern (perhaps because of dissociation and/or neuro dysfunction) that testing of trauma survivors (especially if they are in a reaction pattern while testing, which can be very hard to tell) can be highly variable, depending upon their level of function on a given day. I'm not surprised that mental health tx wasn't helpful; it rarely is in cases that are primary about attachment harm. Until our system finds a way to contain these folks (of whom there are more every day) with BOTH the high structure of a locked facility AND the high nurture of a committed family AT THE SAME TIME, they will not be able to repair damage this profound.
This story broke my heart. So young, such a tragedy and horrible crime. The documentary was very interesting and I am personally rooting for her to continue to do well in the world going forward ❤️
"As we KNOW, celebrities are experts in just about EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!" BWA HA HA HA My husband and I are absolutely doubled over with laughter over here!! You are the BEST, Dr. Grande!
Confabulation i like that I'm adding that to my vocabulary . It sure pays off to listen carefully to intelligent people speak, in return you think bigger Swiftor and with a better better sense of logical thinking. the courts need people like you. 25 years is fair enough considering the fact she was only 16 and the man was taking advantage of her but on the other hand she murdered him! It can be quite difficult finding out which one outweighs the other ask Lady Justice she knows 🏛
I love that in every video Dr. Todd Grande provides (in part): the facts of topics, prefaces that every situation is unique, provides an insight with his clinical professional experience, and leaves resources in every video description. This channel as a whole is grounded and rational.
Thanks again for an amazingly comprehensive analysis, not to mention your fantastically dead pan sense of humor. As a therapist working in an acute forensic psychiatric facility, I so appreciate everything you said. Especially at the end, when you address eloquently the need to focus on systemic root issues as opposed to celebrities only focusing on one individual. I take for granted that you’ve read “Destroying sanctuary”, by Sandra Bloom and Brian Farragher. That book is my bible. I rely on my own therapist, clinical supervisor, that book, and your videos to help me navigate my insanely destructive work environment in as healthy and sane a manner as possible. I have shared your channel with my closest colleagues and we all appreciate your work and delivery style tremendously.
Perfect delivery of the dry, dark humor! I love it! That being said, I appreciate your insights on these cases! Have you considered the "Abducted in Plain Sight" documentary? That was a truly disturbing kidnapping.
A pretty good analysis by Dr Grande. He certainly notices that celebrity publicity in such cases lays a dangerous precedent for criminal justice. As far as Cyntoia Brown is concerned I think 50 years may have been excessive considering her age but 15 years was way too little. Dr Grande is probably correct that 25 years should have been a minimum sentence. I think what really sticks in people's throats though is how Brown has now become a mini celebrity of her own. Writing books (presumably profiting from her crime?), going on talk shows, giving soft-ball pretty intervews etc. After her release she should slink off quietly into obscurity never to be mentioned in a good light ever again, live with the shame of her actions, and not pop her head over the parapet. All this is very insulting to the victim of her crime who seems to have been forgotten in all this.
rossini55 you sound like the most judgmental person ever! I know and you know you’re not perfect. She was 16 year old streetwalker when a grown ass man picked her up and took her back to his house for sex. We don’t know if she did it on purpose or accident. She did damn near as much time as she was when she committed the crime. You feel too much empathy for the man that picked her up. Maybe he should’ve made better choices. Maybe he shouldn’t pick up strangers. But for you to put this all on her and she should have to serve 10 more years according to you, is pretty messed up. Clearly she’s suffered enough. Stop feeling bad for a grown ass weird ass real estate agent that picked a underage prostitute up and took her back to his home.
15 years seems fair. She committed the crime as a child and has by most accounts across 2 documentaries been a model prisoner and a poster child for the prison reformative programs. Nobody deserves to be killed in cold blood. She deserved to be locked away both as punishment and to separate her from society when she was still a danger to the public. It is hard to argue she remains any sort of threat to anyone. Nor did the crime happen to somebody minding their own business - soliciting minors and committing statutory rape can leave you in dangerous situations. I don't agree that he deserved it at all - but the circumstances are important to context.
OMG21ization thats because she’s not a serial killer. She’s a victim. She found herself in ONE situation where a mans life was taken. Her account was self defense and based on the facts, I could see how she felt she had to kill that strange man. I see your point about actual serial killers and their victims being lost in the carnage, but don’t make her (Cyntoia) out to be Aileen Wuornos. (From the movie Monster)
@@bigXtheDroll yeah she was in a messed up lifestyle but that does not give you the right to just shoot people. Otherwise every murderer would just say "I had a bad life" and they would get a licence to commit murder with less jail time. She committed the crime on purpose with no evidence that she was in fear of her life. Whether Johnny Allen knew her age is unknown. If she was in such trouble why did she not kill her pimp "Kut-throat" instead?
I found your analysis of this case fascinating. I have not heard about Cyntothia Brown or the Netflix special, which I hope to watch. Dr. Grande your comments are always well thought out and intelligent. Thanks.
It is frustrating to me that possible effects of FASD on perpetrators doesn’t ever seem to come up in the conversation. It is something that must be taken into account whenever people don’t appear to learn from personal experience, are able to “straighten up” in structured environments, have little to no impulse control and do not grasp that verbalizing what you wish had happened does not forever alter what actually did happen. With many FASD effected individuals being raised by people who were themselves injured in utero and thus have severe shortcomings as parents - the situation couldn’t be more dire.
I like your analysis. When I watched this show, I felt that she was guilty of killing him in cold blood. But she was young, mentally and emotionally challenged and, as you pointed out, she was like many, many other young offenders in that regard. It was only her celebrity that got her the clemency. I hope she lives a productive life and that the criminal justice system learns from her case.
Interested to know about children who murder ie in the James Bulger case or Mary bell . Nature or nurture ? What would be your opinion on the rehabilitation of these children in terms of their mental health ?
You can't put all "children who murder" in one category tho. Some of them will have different brain structure since birth, some of them will have been abused since childhood and some others might have acted under the influence of drugs or had a shizoid disorder and coudln't think well during the situation. Or it was all of these together or something else entirely. I mean that's why we need psychological professionals. It's a different situation with each case.
Nature or nurture - of course both. In some ways is more nurture, but starts few generations before children are born. Many micro decisions contribute, pollutions, mutations, addictions, substances taken during pregnancy, transgeberational trauma, impacts gens expressions and their reinforcements.
@@AlternativeHomesteading wifi I am not sure, since we all are exposed to, but of course over-medications can be issue, but kids take " recreational" drugs and alcohol too. There are also developmental challenges. Biochemistry is very complicated and no children with hyperactivity, attention, memory deficites aren't going to wake up healthy before WiFi or meds are turned off sorry... Some people are born with different brains than others.
@@lechatnoir157 I agree. Each case has to be examined separately. There are no magical one size fits all diagnoses. Most people should be accountable for their actions even if mitigating circumstances might alter the sentencing. There should be no blanket get out of jail free cards and absolution from current or future crimes simply from past trauma. If it is determined that a person has offended and continues to offend, society has a right to defend themselves by incarcerating that individual, no matter how adorable and seemingly sweet they seem on camera.
I agree completely with this analysis. I'm glad you felt the same about her sentencing The victim was totally ignored in the story It's just as imbalanced as when the exculpatory factors are ignored it's almost a reversed form of being tried in the media, which is also imbalanced Thanks for another interesting video!
Some great cases have been covered lately by Dr G. I have so much trust and respect for what the dr has to say. It’s actually a good feeling to have a such a trustworthy source on “social media” .... especially when so many lies and half truths get told.
I can't believe how detailed Dr. Grande videos are!!! I didn't see the Netflix series but the television exposure definitely got attention. Celebrities should focus their time and money on California's homeless, many who are mentally ill. With over 300 sunny days a year, the homeless are flocking there. It is literally impossible NOT to be harassed. Another lawless out of control state. Maybe the Kardashians cant turn their mansions into homeless refuges.
I wish you were my therapist Dr. Grande. You have an exceptional intellect in psychology, I almost feel like your the only doctor that could give me a real diagnosis. I haven't found a single therapist in my state that takes me seriously, or anyone else seriously enough for that matter.
Thank you Dr. grande for another incredibly insightful analysis, however I must disagree with your suggestion that she should have served 25 years. A 16 year old’s brain (particularly the prefrontal cortex) is not fully developed, especially a 16 year old raised in poverty & neglect, surrounded by criminality and abuse, a child who has been given very little opportunity and support from their close relatives and wider society. She served a sentence that was almost half her life, 15 years, I think she did her time. She has atoned for what she has done, and she’s had 15 years to think about taking another mans life, and she has had to face the consequences of her actions. She deserves a second chance to build a life with loved ones, to have a future to look forward to, and to be able to contribute to her community.
She wasn't raised that way though. Her adoptive parents had her since she was 18 months old. Her mom is a teacher and they had a stable home with other children. She made the choice to start running away from home at age 12. She said her parents were too strict and she couldn't get high and party like she wanted to if she stayed in their home.
Courtney Dyer she went to prison though. It’s not like she got away Scott free. And in her mind it was self defence. He was picking her up to pay for sex and talking about all the guns he had. I honestly don’t think my son will ever do that when he’s an old man. Try to have sex with a drugged up 16 year old runaway and have guns lying around. I don’t think she should spend forever locked up
Claire Willow you say that like she didn’t admit to telling him she was 19 before she even got into his truck, that excuse y’all keep using by saying “he wanted to have sex with a kid” doesn’t even make sense when you look at what SHE said herself. not to mention killing someone that is asleep bc you’re afraid they’re going to kill you isnt even logical, she was not afraid of him, he was no threat if he was sleeping, she could have easily snuck out of the house instead of sneaking into his room and killing him, then picking up her bf in his truck and going back to his house to rob him, then trying to sell the murder weapon and his other guns to the pawnshop, then bragging to your friend about robbing and killing a man then threatening to kill her too when she says she’s going to tell the cops. lol please get the facts straight
When these expert celebrities try to get someone released, a condition of it should be that they have to reside with one of them. If they’re so certain the defendant didn’t commit the crime or should get a reduced sentence, they shouldn’t have a problem with housing them, having them babysit their kids, etc.
Well, I learned a lot about a lot in this video! It also makes a really good case to prove the point that therapy never works unless the person in therapy is willing to use it to make changes. She didn't engage with it when she was younger, but once in prison and faced with having to change in order to increase her chances of clemency, she did make use of it. Or she learned how to present as healthy very well. I agree 100% about your conclusions. She should have done serious time but sentencing any teen to 51 years is excessive. Legally a 16 year old may be culpable but we all know that 16 year old brains are not half as developed as the 16 year old thinks they are! Thanks for another great episode, big love from Scotland :)
I agree that 25 years would’ve been better. I also agree that we have to be careful treating her differently when there are so many others just like her who don’t get special treatment or celebrity attention.
I'm pretty sure she's got borderline personality disorder due to all those tattoos and the nose piercing she has. Not to mention the childhood abuse she suffered that she writes about. Since one symptom of BPD is weak identity, some people with BPD take on a different identity. I think this is why she took on the identity of a black person (she probably liked blacks better because her adopted siblings weren't abusing her in her childhood, but her parents and white brother were abusing her, according to her. She witnessed her black siblings being beaten by her parents, and heard of her black sister being molested by her white brother, and since she was abused herself by these same people, she probably identified with her siblings and became trauma-bonded to them).
Moondog She said her parents only outed her as White, because she was going to testify against her father. She was going to testify against her father, for him molesting her little sister. Her parents did this to ruin her credibility. They did ruin her (Rachel’s )her reputation. Pretty much her reputation as a human being was ruined.
Abundant Places I saw that documentary about her. Everything she said was backed up by her siblings who were adopted. Except one sibling. But Narcissistic Abusers often selectively abuse. The one bad thing she did was getting a job with the NAACP which should have gone to a genuine African American person. Her parents belonged to some crazy evangelical cult and the parents physically abused their children. Rachel’s father sexually abused her as did her older brother. The Pathological Liars in this family are Rachel’s parents and her child molesting older brother.
I am for rehabilitation. I do not believe sending a 16 year old girl into a prison helps her reform. I am for policy as you said. Mental health does not get better by putting a mentally ill person in prison. There should be changes made for mentally ill people who have committed crimes, especially if they are underage, to receive reform and return to society better people rather than more traumatized and often more violent. Brown seems to have been able to reform herself but I suppose time will tell. She has also been very vocal about how terrifying prison is and I think her sharing that is important as she was a girl who experienced trauma. I do not want to negate that she took a life but I suppose I feel emotional about this because so many young women are traumatized by older men and therefore feel all men are a danger. I do not want that to ever be the case. I also believe it is important to note that an underage person cannot be a labeled a prostitute/sex-worker anymore. That is no longer the law as you cannot consent when you are underage which I believe is just.
I was very familiar with this case before it received significant mainstream attention and celebrity support recently, so I was shocked when I learned that people were actually trying to say that this girl was defending herself when she shot that sleeping man. I believe that her original sentence was harsh, mostly because she was a minor at the time, but she got off far too easily with 15 years. I’m stunned that there are so many people who believe that her arrest and sentencing was this huge injustice just because Kim Kardashian said it was.
I agree if she got 15 years then everyone who commits cold blooded murder with mental health problems should be released after 15 years. It smacks of inconsistencies. It seems to me if you are a cause célèbre they can't stand the fuss and let you out whereas others are left to rot.
I believe that there are always going to be inconsistencies because no two crimes are alike. There are laws and then there are precedents. The law is always evolving because of these precedents. The judgement depends upon the material facts of a case. Therefore, it wont be fair to charge everyone the same for a certain crime.
One aspect you did not include was the fetal alcohol syndrome she may have suffered due to the behavior of her biological mother. Her bio mom had mental illness as did other relatives in her bio mother's family. I think that was also a mitigating factor for reducing her sentence. But due to the viciousness of the crime I do believe trying her as an adult was proper. She would have been free at the age of 19 if she had been tried as a juvenile. She needed to do more time than that. As you said, I hope she can be a law-abiding citizen and make the most of her freedom. Thank you for your videos. Very well- thought and balanced.
@@nise5281 I never said she should get a pass. Did you even read my comment all the way through? Every judge has to take mitigating factors into account as to the severity of their punishment. I agreed she should be tried as an adult. She deserved to be punished but I felt that based on all the strikes she had against her she shouldn't spend her entire life in prison. Time will tell but I think she has grown up a lot.
Wow I'm really glad you covered this. I hadn't looked into the case really but several of my friends were outraged by the sentence and wanted her released. But from what they were saying it sounded like she killed the man who was pimping her because he was holding her hostage, not a John that picked her up that day.
Excellent analysis. As always. Maybe you could also have your wife on the show that your audience get's to know the second person making the channel. Thank you both very much for the great videos!
The position of Allen's body when he died strongly suggests he was shot to death whilst sleeping and I think Brown murdered because she could, especially as she said as much to at least one person and referred to wanting to execute an individual to 'see how it felt'. Thank you for continuing the uploads, Dr. Grande. They're dealing with interesting cases and your insight and dry sense of humour are much appreciated by this INTJ!
That wouldn't have been right either. I'm in the UK. There's no such thing as a 51 year sentence for murder let alone for a messed up 16 year old girl. There's less than a hundred people on full life tariffs (in prison until they die) but they are serial killers, adults who've abducted, raped and murdered children or mass murdering terrorists. If Brown had committed her crime in the UK she'd have gotten about 15 years or perhaps lower. The highest tariff I've heard for someone 16 or under is 20 years and that was an exception. Civilisation hasn't collapsed here There isn't an epidemic of juveniles killing people and recidivism is relatively rare.
In the United States we have the highest incarceration rate of any industrialized nation. 46% is for drug convictions. You would think it was "Mad Max" over here.
The comment about wishing celebrities used their influence to make even greater improvements in the overall system and approach to mental health is spot on. I saw an early video of this case, before it became well known, and my personal opinion was that she was simply robbing him. But that she had a messed up life and was intelligent and had a greater potential. I also hope she does good things with her life.
EXCELLENT QUESTION, and in fact it is interesting to see how abuse and trauma affect us psychologically and maybe why some are more affected than others!
Thank you for this video! I have gotten into massive debates with people over this case because I do not believe she reasonably believed her life was in danger. Even when acting in self defense, you still have the duty to retreat if you can do it safely. She could have easily gotten up and safely attempted to leave his house if she wanted to. I personally don’t think anyone who shoots a potentially sleeping person in the back of the head and steals their property is a victim. Reminds me of the Michael Dunn case- similar circumstances with totally different culpability in the eyes of some. Everyone that I’ve spoken to about this case seems to be unable or unwilling to hear the evidence and reacts emotionally, as you said. A lot of people make it a race issue, implying that Cyntoia was unfairly convicted/sentenced for being black, whilst ignoring the phenomenon of pretty women being given more leniency in the justice system.
You open my eyes to new perspectives, specially in these kind of situations where pseudo journalists portray things accordingly to celebrities. Thanks. ❤️ Dr T.G.
Could you make a video on ADHD & High IQ? Or a video on how girls are less likely to be diagnosed with ADHD than boys? (I guess it’s called ADD hyperactivity now!) Thanks for the great & non-bias content!
Being hurt is not a license to hurt people. For me it's her age at the time of the crime and improved behaviour in later years that make it seem like keeping her for 50 was unnecessary. But this idea that we should just release all the prisoners because they had hard lives? Oof. Our society is addicted to exaggerated demonstrations of compassion, I think they get a narcissistic charge off it. Personally, I think it's patronizing and dehumanizing to survivors of trauma and the mentally ill, to cue the violins and tell everyone they just can't help it. Bigotry of low expectations.
Stop using the fact she was a minor to excuse what she did. She knew what would happen when she pulled that trigger as well as commiting theft. She deserved to be in prison for life.
@@nise5281 murdering a guy that took you into a parking lot while you were there trafficked as a prostitute, and then killing the stranger that took me under those circumstances and lied half naked in the same bed as me? That guy?
For sure, he shouldn’t have picked her up, but somewhere along the way he obviously changed his mind about having sex with her. It’s too bad he didn’t load her up and take her back to where he got her from. I can see her maybe giving her a sob story about not having anywhere to go. She was likely in contact with her pimp during the time she was at the victim’s house and received encouragement for the robbery. She wasn’t tied up or restrained in any way. The guy was going to sleep. She could’ve had her pimp come pick her up, she could’ve called a cab, she could’ve taken off walking. In other words, she had options. To take a .40 cal and blow someone’s head off, not in self-defense is a hella cold-blooded thing to do. Because of her age, I don’t think LWOP was the right option, but a 25-year sentence seems reasonable to me.
Felt shades of Eileen W in the murder of Allen. Certainly intense experiences growing up and her lifestyle at the time wouldn't have cultivated much respect for the male human lives that she came in contact with.
This was a 16-year-old girl who murdered Mr. Allen. Mind you, I don't know how a 40+ year old man looking for sex from a hungry girl in exchange for money can be rehabilitated. (I don't know of any old codger who propositions kids for sex would pay a kid directly for that amount of money, either.) Who knows where else he's done this to other underage girls? I have no sympathy for him. He wasn't there just breaking the law; his interests were to get personal satisfaction to traumatize an already disturbed girl. I don't believe she did this in self-defense, but certainly a troubled GIRL who might have been sexually assaulted and propositioned by dirty old men throughout her life, might have set off this murder, for which she is certainly culpable. I would not want to see her in jail for your recommended sentence - even that was excessive. I do believe she needs long-term psychological intervention where her freedoms are restricted, but not in a prison setting where none of this is availed to prisoners in a long-term. No amount of good behavior is actually going to help her where she is psychologically broken.Society has done a disservice to these individuals: it let dirty old men do what they want to minors without being fiscally, socially, consequently, and legally culpable for their actions and to the people they hurt helping this younger girl in a very structured environment when she needed it. Celebrities are just lay people and if there was more understanding about this, people would only take their opinions as such. Like all of us, they have opinions and they have the means to move mountains, it seems, but they should not get in the way of people getting the real help they need either.
I totally agree. I think Cyntoia is guilty of murder. But at the same time, I have no sympathy for individuals who pick up minors in the middle of the night for sex.
You should cover the Burning Bed / Battered Woman case. It happened in the 70s I believe and hugely affected society’s perception of domestic abuse against women and the failures of the domestic abuse “laws” (in quotes as they were basically nonexistent) of the time, definitely impacting changes in such law. Basically a woman sets her husband’s bed on fire with him within killing him after she was severely beaten, beatings he routinely carried out and police were made aware of but did nothing about. She was acquitted via defense of Temporary Insanity. Was she wrong taking justice into her own hands, drawing forth the penalty of death by her own will? Did the lack of any justice she received in spite of reports of abuse made to police and police having witnessed clear signs of abuse on her body and heard statements made by her husband? Does a history of severe abuse make she who committed violence against the abuser a sympathetic character or, more so, not truly culpable? Did she really have other options / were they plausible though if women are more likely to be killed by an abusive partner upon trying to leave?
@Realism I really, it was self defense. she explained her story and wrote her book. I'm glad she was able to get out and get the help she needed while she was in prison although she been through a lot in life and in prison. I'm glad she has matured and she wrote a book in jail and she met her husband in jail. She is out and is enjoying life with her husband, family and friends.
If she was a career criminal she wouldn't of needed to prostitute for money. Sounds like the guy she shot was a career sex offender. His parents said their son was a youth pastor and only brought her to his house to try to help her. How? Why didn't he stop at a wallmart and gwt her clean clothes and Hygeine stuff if he was going to offer her a place to stay? As a youth pastor why didn't he call the church? Women from the church? His parents? Teen shelters? Anyone to let people know he had picked up a homeless 16 yr old girl who's been prostituting? The church would of had plenty of resources. He didn't want anyone to know he picked her up and why would he have put her in his room tp sleep and sleep next to her? Yea right he picked up a homeless teenage prostitute to bring her to his house and help her yet put her in his bed to sleep and just went to sleep next to her? And what he told her was true that he was important and had connections and could of made her dissapear. No way their should not of been reasonable doubt that a a 16 yr old might of had to defend herself against a 42 yr old who picks her up and doesn't tell anybody about her there that she was in a situation with a man that showed at least some suspicion and probable cause the man was going to do something nefarious to her and she got herself in over her head.
Notwithstanding the important issue of mental health and culpability, the thing that screams out to me is that she was only 16, little more than a child. The USA’s penal system is so harsh.
I remember seeing this case a lot on Facebook and just feeling I couldn’t comment to anyone. I did ten minutes of actual research and came to what seemed an obvious conclusion: Okay she got way to harsh a sentence, but deserved to be in prison for a long time, not was she wholly innocent. I tend pretty far on the left but watching people I respected get enraged on her behalf pissed me off and saddened me. She was pandering at a sonic, went home with him, he had no indication she was a minor. He was asleep, but might have been waiting for a rub and tug. She killed and robbed him on impulse. Everyone said she was controlled by her pimp, that she was trafficked. Which is true but she killed the wrong guy!!! She felt guilty, but wanted to not experience the consequences. She damned herself repeatedly, and not from bullshit cell are testimony. And she got held up as proof our system is run by a mixture of Jeffrey Epstein and David duke. Yeah she was probably on the spectrum and off in the head, and her attorney wasn’t great. But she still deserved like thirty to life
I have watched a variety of "self-help", "mental health" videos. I am a LCSW/CASAC. The only reason I mention that is because I understand research, competency, and efficacy. Dr. Grande is a breath of fresh air. Not only is his analysis interesting, it is not based on BS. It is based on research, critical thinking, and a thoughtful delivery. I often wonder about all the other RUclipsrs claiming to be professionals?
Fascinating and detailed video as always, Dr. Grande! You look very smart today! I wonder if you may be interested in the familicide crime by Christopher Foster in Shropshire? It's a fascinating case that seems to have been somewhat forgotten.
As someone that has served time for a drug crime, I tend to think the mental health of a person is used as a crutch for a lot of offenders to get less time. When I would talk with these people they knew that they were doing wrong and always blamed someone else for their troubles. I do know we all have issues that affect our behavior i just think this allows many offenders to not take accountability for the crime they committed. Therefore there continue to offend. Just my opinion.
This is actually the first time I've heard about this case, and I especially appreciate when you add your own thoughts on these videos, in addition to the straight facts. If possible, can you please do a video on cases where parents have forgotten their child in their car and the child dies as a result? I'm interested in hearing your opinions of how this trajedy happens, and where you weigh in on the legal punishment, if any, that the parent(s) may be given. Thank you so much!!
She was young and pretty enough to be emotionally swaying, giving her leniency by exception. (What was priviledge again?) The verdict of Dr Grande was very much on point, and I'm sad to see celebrities, who have based their entire life on vapid appearances, have such an impact on the justice system.
I think 15 years is often plenty of time for someone to psychologically and emotionally mature enough to have a healthy relationship with the rest of society, given her young age (her brain would be not fully developed and her world view and thought patterns not as deeply entrenched as in an older person). This case aside, it's impossible to fairly to judge everyone in society by one rulebook, because people all grow up being taught (through others' words and actions) different rules of life. Imagine if laws and sentences were all decided by people with extensive trauma history - those without those trauma histories would likely find themselves breaking the rules very often. Imo more effort needs to be put in to make sure children and young adults don't see the world in a warped way, not just to prevent criminality but also for society to get the best out of their potential.
Wait up, if you can't judge by one rule book, how are you gonna "make sure children and adults don't see the world in a warped way" ? You need a rule book to say what's warped lol. We don't police thoughtcrime yet! Put more funding into child protection, that will help with the issues you raise. Those poor people are always overworked and leaving their jobs.
the mans life was lost , 16 is old enough to know what you are doing , 25years was more appropriate, she was not raped there was no gun he had , she should not be allowed softer punishment then say a 18 year old male.
I have seen the documentary on Netflix and I was thinking to ask your opinion doc, about the way the psychologist was investing her, but you gave your opinion already and I agree, that the way he asked her, was not always in a 'professional manner'. Thanks Dr. Grande and nice shirt btw 😃🇳🇱
Hi Ben, how are you doing? So I was reading about McDonald’s conducting trials for the creation of virus- proof restaurants in Arnhem, Netherlands. I found it to be quite innovative and I also remembered you:) Hope you are enjoying your Sunday!😉
Hi Rejane, nice to hear from you. I'm good and I hope you're also. Ooh, I haven't heard anything about the Macdonalds in my country. As far as I know, our government doesn't allow people to go to restaurants yet. Our restaurants and for example hairdresser are making all kinds of innovative ideas and plans. On about the 20th of May the government is going to see, what kinds of possibilities are possible to open up more restaurants and so. The numbers of people on the Intensive Care are important to make decisions. Today the number of deaths and people with Coronavirus on the IC is now the lowest since the outbreak. So, maybe some positive desssions can be made soon.
Once again very good analysis - unfortunately we often get caught up in the emotive issues surrounding criminal cases - victims all round. Adding a comment on policy and systems took this insight to a higher level. 👍
I was upset until you started expressing that the system as a whole needs to be reformed. I have issues with the concept of a punitive justice system as a whole, but I also think the lengths of sentences for most crimes are excessive at best. Our justice system should be based on treatment, education, and rehabilitation of offenders. Crimes are very commonly the result of one's socioeconomic status or mental health, not because people are inherently evil. Being imprisoned is a traumatic experience that does little to prevent recidivism in most cases, and it disproportionately impacts people of color and poor people. As someone who has been diagnosed with BPD, I am lucky that I was not arrested for some of the shit I did as a teen. I was going through a very traumatic time and hadn't had the chance to learn how to control my impulses. I did not kill anyone, but I was violent at times. I am ashamed of my behavior, but prison wouldn't have helped.
@@joincoffee9383 Everyone would agree that people who are truly dangerous should _not_ be roaming free. But I think Sakura's point is that there are many, many prisoners who do not fall into that category. There are many who can be rehabilitated if we focus on rehabilitation rather than on punishment. Also, justice doesn't seem to be about fairness. When you have people in prison for years for non-violent offenses and pedophiles serving only a few of years (and we _know_ there is no cure for this affliction), the system is broken, which is what Dr. Grande says at the end of the video.
I worked in a prison for 10 years and they are not in there for going to church on Sunday. I would never want a person convicted for murder being my neighbor.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Daily mental health checklist:
1. Exercise
2. Practice mindfulness
3. DON'T COMMIT MURDER
Molly J 😂😂😂
wonderful comment, thank you 💗
I’m in love, with that comment
Pretty much sums it up :-)
Well, maybe 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
Dr Grande is hitting us up with some CONTENT. Damn... Netflix works hard but Dr Grande works harder.
Agreed
Dr Grande's humor of late I find a questionable choice.
I like the guy.
He is really intelligent and very insightful.
I also like humor.
I hope Dr. Grande can fulfill his wishes,
on both scores,
Informing people and making people laugh
with different two different channels.
Omfg "celebrities are experts in just about everything". Your humor that is seasoned throughout your videos is truly impeccable. You do it with a straight face, without going off topic. Once again, another world class upload. Thanks again!
😂
you only thanked once, why the 'again'?
@@almightybilly because I thank him every time I comment. You now owe me $ 3.50 for educating you.
@@ajhproductions2347 mmm seems an interesting dialogue has been generated....
@@almightybilly it's what we do bro 😂🤘
Serving as a judge carries a heavy responsibility, but I actually think that Dr. Grande, because of his logical and impartial approach, would be a very good judge.
Grande means big. I couldnt be impartial with a name like that
I wholeheartedly agree!
I agree
@TheMrCaptainStfu I've been struck by how much he knows for a lay person. His analysis of the Derek Chauvin case was very good.
He should go to law school. At age 50, a lawyer can have 20 years of practice, depending on the area of law he specializes in, so Dr. Grande is clearly young enough.
"One of the goals of therapy should be 'Don't commit murder'" Doc, you slay me!
“That’s the goal of treatment, right? Don’t commit murder.” 😂
😂
At least... it should be 😆
She had too!!!! Got what he deserved
Doc is 2 much lml 😂🤣😭
Yes, first do not kill your therapist 😅.
Because, as everyone knows celebrities are experts at just about everything. I’m dead!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Sarcastic Todd is best Todd
Yep, that was funny!
Clarissa, first what a nice name my grand mom had the same, second I agree with you. All these "celebs" need to shut up and or go away. I don't know if you know any actors but I have and you wouldn't trust them ever. Also, I'm just tired of everyone worshiping them. It's ridiculous.
😂
😂🤣😅
It does seem unjust on a systemic level that an impoverished, traumatized 16 year old prostitute who murders her pimp is sentenced to life in prison when a wealthy legally-adult teen like Brock Turner can violently rape a woman (in front of two eyewitnesses) and be out of jail in just three months.
I think those sort of disparities are part of what get people so heated. In the face of such naked injustice, people may develop a feeling of “So what if it wasn’t self-defense? Let her out anyway.”
She murdered the john, not the pimp
Well she killed a paedophile, so it’s really a “public service homicide”. That’s what we used to call these types of murders. Cold but true. It would’ve even better had she killed the pimp.
@@Bama_Law Yeah, the pimp should've been offed.
Agree with the general idea that justice is not equal but disagree that it necessarily applies here the way you put it. As stated Allen was the John. Maybe. I say maybe because how do we know? He's dead and she isn't exactly a reliable witness. Her life was messed up no doubt and that sucks. It also sucked that she killed a man like she did.
I just hate the white washing of cases like this and the emotional manipulation that accompanies it. . Central park 5 is another where the story is quite different from the actual facts.
(why did you think Allen was the pimp? This was never mentioned in this video, but that was in the inaccurate Kim Kardashian tweet)
@@Bama_Law how do we know that Allen knew how old she was? I don't even grant that there was an agreement for sex involved because we only have her word and she says they didn't do anything. Even so, I don't agree that Allen deserved to be executed, mostly because I'm not sure we can know if he knew her age.
"Welcome to my scientifically informed, insider look, at mental health topics".
Hearing those words means today is already a very good day!
Abundant Places Well the opportunity to learn is what I am referring to.
Exactly.
Why?
you've been on a roll recently with interesting cases
" If the decision were up to me, and I'm glad that it's not.." I agree. These things are complicated, no easy answers.
Dr. Grande must have known that I needed a new video with my coffee...
As always thank you very much for keeping up the interesting content Dr. Grande. I really look forward to every new video.
To everybody else: Hope you all safe & well (:
@Kasia damn, who shit in your coffee this morning?
I agree that Hollywood seems to think they are experts at everything AND that we should bow to their greater wisdom and insight. Thank goodness I can think for myself.
Thanks as always. I love your videos.
Anecdotally, she actually sounds like a classic trauma survivor with severe attachment damage. The baseline mistrust (alluded to, and illustrated in her lifestyle), the potential attachment-interference by habitual substance use (especially starting young), compounded by her having been victimized.
Her confabulation might be the typical effort of someone who is frequently dissociating to fill in the gaps in their memory/experience. I grant you that IQ testing is of limited value; it is a common pattern (perhaps because of dissociation and/or neuro dysfunction) that testing of trauma survivors (especially if they are in a reaction pattern while testing, which can be very hard to tell) can be highly variable, depending upon their level of function on a given day.
I'm not surprised that mental health tx wasn't helpful; it rarely is in cases that are primary about attachment harm. Until our system finds a way to contain these folks (of whom there are more every day) with BOTH the high structure of a locked facility AND the high nurture of a committed family AT THE SAME TIME, they will not be able to repair damage this profound.
This story broke my heart. So young, such a tragedy and horrible crime. The documentary was very interesting and I am personally rooting for her to continue to do well in the world going forward ❤️
Me too. Well done for having a heart! ❤️🏴
Calico123 Linus agree
This broke my heart too the victim is so dead. Who was he did he have children what was his early life like no one cares about the victim
What about the real victim
@@manilanoakes3966
I wonder why the victim was picking up children to bring home?
"As we KNOW, celebrities are experts in just about EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!" BWA HA HA HA My husband and I are absolutely doubled over with laughter over here!! You are the BEST, Dr. Grande!
Confabulation i like that I'm adding that to my vocabulary . It sure pays off to listen carefully to intelligent people speak, in return you think bigger Swiftor and with a better better sense of logical thinking. the courts need people like you. 25 years is fair enough considering the fact she was only 16 and the man was taking advantage of her but on the other hand she murdered him! It can be quite difficult finding out which one outweighs the other ask Lady Justice she knows 🏛
I love that in every video Dr. Todd Grande provides (in part): the facts of topics, prefaces that every situation is unique, provides an insight with his clinical professional experience, and leaves resources in every video description. This channel as a whole is grounded and rational.
Thanks again for an amazingly comprehensive analysis, not to mention your fantastically dead pan sense of humor. As a therapist working in an acute forensic psychiatric facility, I so appreciate everything you said. Especially at the end, when you address eloquently the need to focus on systemic root issues as opposed to celebrities only focusing on one individual. I take for granted that you’ve read “Destroying sanctuary”, by Sandra Bloom and Brian Farragher. That book is my bible. I rely on my own therapist, clinical supervisor, that book, and your videos to help me navigate my insanely destructive work environment in as healthy and sane a manner as possible. I have shared your channel with my closest colleagues and we all appreciate your work and delivery style tremendously.
Perfect delivery of the dry, dark humor! I love it! That being said, I appreciate your insights on these cases! Have you considered the "Abducted in Plain Sight" documentary? That was a truly disturbing kidnapping.
Very well presented and easy to understand. I had no trouble following. Thanks for your insights; I had never heard of this case before.
A pretty good analysis by Dr Grande. He certainly notices that celebrity publicity in such cases lays a dangerous precedent for criminal justice. As far as Cyntoia Brown is concerned I think 50 years may have been excessive considering her age but 15 years was way too little. Dr Grande is probably correct that 25 years should have been a minimum sentence. I think what really sticks in people's throats though is how Brown has now become a mini celebrity of her own. Writing books (presumably profiting from her crime?), going on talk shows, giving soft-ball pretty intervews etc. After her release she should slink off quietly into obscurity never to be mentioned in a good light ever again, live with the shame of her actions, and not pop her head over the parapet. All this is very insulting to the victim of her crime who seems to have been forgotten in all this.
The victim who knowingly wanted to have sex with an obviously underage girl... Yeah no all pedos are fair game in my opinion.
rossini55 you sound like the most judgmental person ever! I know and you know you’re not perfect. She was 16 year old streetwalker when a grown ass man picked her up and took her back to his house for sex. We don’t know if she did it on purpose or accident. She did damn near as much time as she was when she committed the crime. You feel too much empathy for the man that picked her up. Maybe he should’ve made better choices. Maybe he shouldn’t pick up strangers. But for you to put this all on her and she should have to serve 10 more years according to you, is pretty messed up. Clearly she’s suffered enough. Stop feeling bad for a grown ass weird ass real estate agent that picked a underage prostitute up and took her back to his home.
15 years seems fair. She committed the crime as a child and has by most accounts across 2 documentaries been a model prisoner and a poster child for the prison reformative programs. Nobody deserves to be killed in cold blood. She deserved to be locked away both as punishment and to separate her from society when she was still a danger to the public. It is hard to argue she remains any sort of threat to anyone. Nor did the crime happen to somebody minding their own business - soliciting minors and committing statutory rape can leave you in dangerous situations. I don't agree that he deserved it at all - but the circumstances are important to context.
OMG21ization thats because she’s not a serial killer. She’s a victim. She found herself in ONE situation where a mans life was taken. Her account was self defense and based on the facts, I could see how she felt she had to kill that strange man. I see your point about actual serial killers and their victims being lost in the carnage, but don’t make her (Cyntoia) out to be Aileen Wuornos. (From the movie Monster)
@@bigXtheDroll yeah she was in a messed up lifestyle but that does not give you the right to just shoot people. Otherwise every murderer would just say "I had a bad life" and they would get a licence to commit murder with less jail time. She committed the crime on purpose with no evidence that she was in fear of her life. Whether Johnny Allen knew her age is unknown. If she was in such trouble why did she not kill her pimp "Kut-throat" instead?
I found your analysis of this case fascinating. I have not heard about Cyntothia Brown or the Netflix special, which I hope to watch. Dr. Grande your comments are always well thought out and intelligent. Thanks.
It is frustrating to me that possible effects of FASD on perpetrators doesn’t ever seem to come up in the conversation. It is something that must be taken into account whenever people don’t appear to learn from personal experience, are able to “straighten up” in structured environments, have little to no impulse control and do not grasp that verbalizing what you wish had happened does not forever alter what actually did happen.
With many FASD effected individuals being raised by people who were themselves injured in utero and thus have severe shortcomings as parents - the situation couldn’t be more dire.
This was intensely interesting! Thanks , Dr. Grande!
I am really glad your channel came up as a suggestion. Very interesting, thought provoking. I have too much to say to even begin a comment.
I like your analysis. When I watched this show, I felt that she was guilty of killing him in cold blood. But she was young, mentally and emotionally challenged and, as you pointed out, she was like many, many other young offenders in that regard. It was only her celebrity that got her the clemency. I hope she lives a productive life and that the criminal justice system learns from her case.
Your humor adds the perfect levity to your videos
Interested to know about children who murder ie in the James Bulger case or Mary bell . Nature or nurture ? What would be your opinion on the rehabilitation of these children in terms of their mental health ?
You can't put all "children who murder" in one category tho. Some of them will have different brain structure since birth, some of them will have been abused since childhood and some others might have acted under the influence of drugs or had a shizoid disorder and coudln't think well during the situation. Or it was all of these together or something else entirely. I mean that's why we need psychological professionals. It's a different situation with each case.
Nature or nurture - of course both. In some ways is more nurture, but starts few generations before children are born. Many micro decisions contribute, pollutions, mutations, addictions, substances taken during pregnancy, transgeberational trauma, impacts gens expressions and their reinforcements.
@@AlternativeHomesteading wifi I am not sure, since we all are exposed to, but of course over-medications can be issue, but kids take " recreational" drugs and alcohol too. There are also developmental challenges. Biochemistry is very complicated and no children with hyperactivity, attention, memory deficites aren't going to wake up healthy before WiFi or meds are turned off sorry... Some people are born with different brains than others.
What about Gypsy Rose Blanchard who, along with her boyfriend, killed her Munchausens by Proxy Medical Child Abusing mother?
@@lechatnoir157 I agree. Each case has to be examined separately. There are no magical one size fits all diagnoses. Most people should be accountable for their actions even if mitigating circumstances might alter the sentencing. There should be no blanket get out of jail free cards and absolution from current or future crimes simply from past trauma. If it is determined that a person has offended and continues to offend, society has a right to defend themselves by incarcerating that individual, no matter how adorable and seemingly sweet they seem on camera.
Bravo Dr. Grande! I love your input. Well said
I agree completely with this analysis. I'm glad you felt the same about her sentencing The victim was totally ignored in the story It's just as imbalanced as when the exculpatory factors are ignored it's almost a reversed form of being tried in the media, which is also imbalanced Thanks for another interesting video!
Some great cases have been covered lately by Dr G.
I have so much trust and respect for what the dr has to say. It’s actually a good feeling to have a such a trustworthy source on “social media” .... especially when so many lies and half truths get told.
I can't believe how detailed Dr. Grande videos are!!! I didn't see the Netflix series but the television exposure definitely got attention. Celebrities should focus their time and money on California's homeless, many who are mentally ill. With over 300 sunny days a year, the homeless are flocking there. It is literally impossible NOT to be harassed. Another lawless out of control state. Maybe the Kardashians cant turn their mansions into homeless refuges.
I wish you were my therapist Dr. Grande. You have an exceptional intellect in psychology, I almost feel like your the only doctor that could give me a real diagnosis. I haven't found a single therapist in my state that takes me seriously, or anyone else seriously enough for that matter.
Thank you Dr. grande for another incredibly insightful analysis, however I must disagree with your suggestion that she should have served 25 years. A 16 year old’s brain (particularly the prefrontal cortex) is not fully developed, especially a 16 year old raised in poverty & neglect, surrounded by criminality and abuse, a child who has been given very little opportunity and support from their close relatives and wider society. She served a sentence that was almost half her life, 15 years, I think she did her time. She has atoned for what she has done, and she’s had 15 years to think about taking another mans life, and she has had to face the consequences of her actions. She deserves a second chance to build a life with loved ones, to have a future to look forward to, and to be able to contribute to her community.
She wasn't raised that way though. Her adoptive parents had her since she was 18 months old. Her mom is a teacher and they had a stable home with other children. She made the choice to start running away from home at age 12. She said her parents were too strict and she couldn't get high and party like she wanted to if she stayed in their home.
Joanna Saadati those first 18 months obviously affected her. And did you hear her biological family history???? Holy fuck is it bad :(
What if a 16 year old shot one of your children?
Courtney Dyer she went to prison though. It’s not like she got away Scott free. And in her mind it was self defence. He was picking her up to pay for sex and talking about all the guns he had. I honestly don’t think my son will ever do that when he’s an old man. Try to have sex with a drugged up 16 year old runaway and have guns lying around. I don’t think she should spend forever locked up
Claire Willow you say that like she didn’t admit to telling him she was 19 before she even got into his truck, that excuse y’all keep using by saying “he wanted to have sex with a kid” doesn’t even make sense when you look at what SHE said herself. not to mention killing someone that is asleep bc you’re afraid they’re going to kill you isnt even logical, she was not afraid of him, he was no threat if he was sleeping, she could have easily snuck out of the house instead of sneaking into his room and killing him, then picking up her bf in his truck and going back to his house to rob him, then trying to sell the murder weapon and his other guns to the pawnshop, then bragging to your friend about robbing and killing a man then threatening to kill her too when she says she’s going to tell the cops. lol please get the facts straight
This was explained so eloquently and the explanations and case timing were one of the best I have ever heard Dr G thank you! Impeccable 😊🙏🏻
When these expert celebrities try to get someone released, a condition of it should be that they have to reside with one of them. If they’re so certain the defendant didn’t commit the crime or should get a reduced sentence, they shouldn’t have a problem with housing them, having them babysit their kids, etc.
Every police department needs a Dr. Grande. It would definitely be a better world.
Well, I learned a lot about a lot in this video! It also makes a really good case to prove the point that therapy never works unless the person in therapy is willing to use it to make changes. She didn't engage with it when she was younger, but once in prison and faced with having to change in order to increase her chances of clemency, she did make use of it. Or she learned how to present as healthy very well. I agree 100% about your conclusions. She should have done serious time but sentencing any teen to 51 years is excessive. Legally a 16 year old may be culpable but we all know that 16 year old brains are not half as developed as the 16 year old thinks they are! Thanks for another great episode, big love from Scotland :)
I agree that 25 years would’ve been better. I also agree that we have to be careful treating her differently when there are so many others just like her who don’t get special treatment or celebrity attention.
Hi Dr. Grande. Would you consider doing an analysis of Rachel Dolezal? I just watched a Netflix documentary on her and am fascinated.
I'm pretty sure she's got borderline personality disorder due to all those tattoos and the nose piercing she has. Not to mention the childhood abuse she suffered that she writes about. Since one symptom of BPD is weak identity, some people with BPD take on a different identity. I think this is why she took on the identity of a black person (she probably liked blacks better because her adopted siblings weren't abusing her in her childhood, but her parents and white brother were abusing her, according to her. She witnessed her black siblings being beaten by her parents, and heard of her black sister being molested by her white brother, and since she was abused herself by these same people, she probably identified with her siblings and became trauma-bonded to them).
Moondog She said her parents only outed her as White, because she was going to testify against her father. She was going to testify against her father, for him molesting her little sister. Her parents did this to ruin her credibility. They did ruin her (Rachel’s )her reputation. Pretty much her reputation as a human being was ruined.
J A Very good question and I’m curious to see the answer.
Abundant Places I saw that documentary about her. Everything she said was backed up by her siblings who were adopted. Except one sibling. But Narcissistic Abusers often selectively abuse. The one bad thing she did was getting a job with the NAACP which should have gone to a genuine African American person. Her parents belonged to some crazy evangelical cult and the parents physically abused their children. Rachel’s father sexually abused her as did her older brother. The Pathological Liars in this family are Rachel’s parents and her child molesting older brother.
I was curious about that too. What a blatantly, asinine remark.
Very balanced analysis of the case. Thank you Dr. Grande.
I feel like I get so much more value out of these videos than watching a whole Netflix documentary.
Dr.Grande deserves his own TV show. He is really good
I am for rehabilitation. I do not believe sending a 16 year old girl into a prison helps her reform. I am for policy as you said. Mental health does not get better by putting a mentally ill person in prison. There should be changes made for mentally ill people who have committed crimes, especially if they are underage, to receive reform and return to society better people rather than more traumatized and often more violent. Brown seems to have been able to reform herself but I suppose time will tell. She has also been very vocal about how terrifying prison is and I think her sharing that is important as she was a girl who experienced trauma. I do not want to negate that she took a life but I suppose I feel emotional about this because so many young women are traumatized by older men and therefore feel all men are a danger. I do not want that to ever be the case. I also believe it is important to note that an underage person cannot be a labeled a prostitute/sex-worker anymore. That is no longer the law as you cannot consent when you are underage which I believe is just.
I was very familiar with this case before it received significant mainstream attention and celebrity support recently, so I was shocked when I learned that people were actually trying to say that this girl was defending herself when she shot that sleeping man. I believe that her original sentence was harsh, mostly because she was a minor at the time, but she got off far too easily with 15 years. I’m stunned that there are so many people who believe that her arrest and sentencing was this huge injustice just because Kim Kardashian said it was.
I agree if she got 15 years then everyone who commits cold blooded murder with mental health problems should be released after 15 years. It smacks of inconsistencies. It seems to me if you are a cause célèbre they can't stand the fuss and let you out whereas others are left to rot.
I believe that there are always going to be inconsistencies because no two crimes are alike. There are laws and then there are precedents. The law is always evolving because of these precedents. The judgement depends upon the material facts of a case. Therefore, it wont be fair to charge everyone the same for a certain crime.
A very interesting and thoughtful analysis. Gave me a lot of information I hadn’t considered.
One aspect you did not include was the fetal alcohol syndrome she may have suffered due to the behavior of her biological mother. Her bio mom had mental illness as did other relatives in her bio mother's family. I think that was also a mitigating factor for reducing her sentence. But due to the viciousness of the crime I do believe trying her as an adult was proper. She would have been free at the age of 19 if she had been tried as a juvenile. She needed to do more time than that. As you said, I hope she can be a law-abiding citizen and make the most of her freedom. Thank you for your videos. Very well- thought and balanced.
So fetal alcohol syndrome or any other should be a pass for murder? She knew right from wrong THAT is the law.
@@nise5281 I never said she should get a pass. Did you even read my comment all the way through? Every judge has to take mitigating factors into account as to the severity of their punishment. I agreed she should be tried as an adult. She deserved to be punished but I felt that based on all the strikes she had against her she shouldn't spend her entire life in prison. Time will tell but I think she has grown up a lot.
I certainly appreciate these videos since finding Dr. Grande on youtube. He does an excellent job keeping to the reality of each case study.
Wow I'm really glad you covered this. I hadn't looked into the case really but several of my friends were outraged by the sentence and wanted her released. But from what they were saying it sounded like she killed the man who was pimping her because he was holding her hostage, not a John that picked her up that day.
She also has FAS. FAS is devistating to executive functioning.
Excellent analysis. As always. Maybe you could also have your wife on the show that your audience get's to know the second person making the channel. Thank you both very much for the great videos!
The position of Allen's body when he died strongly suggests he was shot to death whilst sleeping and I think Brown murdered because she could, especially as she said as much to at least one person and referred to wanting to execute an individual to 'see how it felt'. Thank you for continuing the uploads, Dr. Grande. They're dealing with interesting cases and your insight and dry sense of humour are much appreciated by this INTJ!
If this had been a young teenage boy doing this to an older woman he would never see the light of day.
That wouldn't have been right either. I'm in the UK. There's no such thing as a 51 year sentence for murder let alone for a messed up 16 year old girl. There's less than a hundred people on full life tariffs (in prison until they die) but they are serial killers, adults who've abducted, raped and murdered children or mass murdering terrorists.
If Brown had committed her crime in the UK she'd have gotten about 15 years or perhaps lower. The highest tariff I've heard for someone 16 or under is 20 years and that was an exception. Civilisation hasn't collapsed here There isn't an epidemic of juveniles killing people and recidivism is relatively rare.
In the United States we have the highest incarceration rate of any industrialized nation. 46% is for drug convictions. You would think it was "Mad Max" over here.
@Over It Yes I have and Detroit. I'm all for locking up violent criminals but non-violent drug offenders not so much.
i like how youre including more photos/visuals in your newer uploads!
that's the best I've ever heard about this case. They always left some things out. And I have to agree with you.
This is the 2nd video of yours that I have viewed . Very impressive work. Thank you.
The comment about wishing celebrities used their influence to make even greater improvements in the overall system and approach to mental health is spot on. I saw an early video of this case, before it became well known, and my personal opinion was that she was simply robbing him. But that she had a messed up life and was intelligent and had a greater potential. I also hope she does good things with her life.
Great video Dr.Grande.
Watching from Nairobi
How is Dr Grande putting out so much content at the moment? I think there is one video a day! How do you do it? You’re a machine! 😎
A moving wrap up, Doctor Grande. I can see you on stage or in a movie now, like a murder-mystery as the forensic psychologist, P.I. or detective.
EXCELLENT QUESTION, and in fact it is interesting to see how abuse and trauma affect us psychologically and maybe why some are more affected than others!
You’re on point sir, and I appreciate you giving me other avenues to examine. We have to start taking stories at face value. Thank you.
Thank you for this video! I have gotten into massive debates with people over this case because I do not believe she reasonably believed her life was in danger. Even when acting in self defense, you still have the duty to retreat if you can do it safely. She could have easily gotten up and safely attempted to leave his house if she wanted to. I personally don’t think anyone who shoots a potentially sleeping person in the back of the head and steals their property is a victim. Reminds me of the Michael Dunn case- similar circumstances with totally different culpability in the eyes of some. Everyone that I’ve spoken to about this case seems to be unable or unwilling to hear the evidence and reacts emotionally, as you said. A lot of people make it a race issue, implying that Cyntoia was unfairly convicted/sentenced for being black, whilst ignoring the phenomenon of pretty women being given more leniency in the justice system.
Excellent 💖 Your points about fixing the system and changing policies can’t be stressed enough!
i would love your analysis of diane downs,do u think u will do one?? thanks for everything, a big supporter of all of ur work!!
Dr Grande has already done an analysis of that case
You open my eyes to new perspectives, specially in these kind of situations where pseudo journalists portray things accordingly to celebrities. Thanks. ❤️ Dr T.G.
Excellent measured analysis considering all sides.
As always, a superb analysis. Bravo, Doctor!
Could you make a video on ADHD & High IQ? Or a video on how girls are less likely to be diagnosed with ADHD than boys? (I guess it’s called ADD hyperactivity now!) Thanks for the great & non-bias content!
Being hurt is not a license to hurt people. For me it's her age at the time of the crime and improved behaviour in later years that make it seem like keeping her for 50 was unnecessary. But this idea that we should just release all the prisoners because they had hard lives? Oof. Our society is addicted to exaggerated demonstrations of compassion, I think they get a narcissistic charge off it. Personally, I think it's patronizing and dehumanizing to survivors of trauma and the mentally ill, to cue the violins and tell everyone they just can't help it. Bigotry of low expectations.
Very valid points on both sides. Thanks for your objective coverage, Doc!👌🏽💪🏽💪🏽
AMAZING analysis. Love your take on this!
I was surprised that Browns age was almost a throw away line at the end of an analysis. Doesn’t her age at the time of the crime (16) matter?
Did you know better then to commit murder at 16? Yeah me too!!
Stop using the fact she was a minor to excuse what she did. She knew what would happen when she pulled that trigger as well as commiting theft. She deserved to be in prison for life.
@@HumorousLOL so if a five year old kills say his sister...he should get LWOP?
@@nise5281 murdering a guy that took you into a parking lot while you were there trafficked as a prostitute, and then killing the stranger that took me under those circumstances and lied half naked in the same bed as me? That guy?
did he seriously ignored her age and sex trafficking?
Thanks Dr. Grande for your great analysis always
Can you please do an analysis for Genene Jones
I really liked what you said at the end! I was nodding and saying "Yeah! Exactly!" the whole time.
@Veronica, I agree with you. The end comments were spot on!👌🏼
I wish you were my therapist! I was diagnosed with BPD & all providers either avoid these patients or judge them before getting to know them
For sure, he shouldn’t have picked her up, but somewhere along the way he obviously changed his mind about having sex with her. It’s too bad he didn’t load her up and take her back to where he got her from. I can see her maybe giving her a sob story about not having anywhere to go. She was likely in contact with her pimp during the time she was at the victim’s house and received encouragement for the robbery. She wasn’t tied up or restrained in any way. The guy was going to sleep. She could’ve had her pimp come pick her up, she could’ve called a cab, she could’ve taken off walking. In other words, she had options. To take a .40 cal and blow someone’s head off, not in self-defense is a hella cold-blooded thing to do. Because of her age, I don’t think LWOP was the right option, but a 25-year sentence seems reasonable to me.
Felt shades of Eileen W in the murder of Allen.
Certainly intense experiences growing up and her lifestyle at the time wouldn't have cultivated much respect for the male human lives that she came in contact with.
Humanimal There is a big difference between disrespecting someone and killing him.
Ted Brandt you really aren’t too bright if you don’t understand what she’s trying to say here.
This was a 16-year-old girl who murdered Mr. Allen. Mind you, I don't know how a 40+ year old man looking for sex from a hungry girl in exchange for money can be rehabilitated. (I don't know of any old codger who propositions kids for sex would pay a kid directly for that amount of money, either.) Who knows where else he's done this to other underage girls? I have no sympathy for him. He wasn't there just breaking the law; his interests were to get personal satisfaction to traumatize an already disturbed girl. I don't believe she did this in self-defense, but certainly a troubled GIRL who might have been sexually assaulted and propositioned by dirty old men throughout her life, might have set off this murder, for which she is certainly culpable. I would not want to see her in jail for your recommended sentence - even that was excessive. I do believe she needs long-term psychological intervention where her freedoms are restricted, but not in a prison setting where none of this is availed to prisoners in a long-term. No amount of good behavior is actually going to help her where she is psychologically broken.Society has done a disservice to these individuals: it let dirty old men do what they want to minors without being fiscally, socially, consequently, and legally culpable for their actions and to the people they hurt helping this younger girl in a very structured environment when she needed it. Celebrities are just lay people and if there was more understanding about this, people would only take their opinions as such. Like all of us, they have opinions and they have the means to move mountains, it seems, but they should not get in the way of people getting the real help they need either.
I totally agree. I think Cyntoia is guilty of murder. But at the same time, I have no sympathy for individuals who pick up minors in the middle of the night for sex.
You should cover the Burning Bed / Battered Woman case. It happened in the 70s I believe and hugely affected society’s perception of domestic abuse against women and the failures of the domestic abuse “laws” (in quotes as they were basically nonexistent) of the time, definitely impacting changes in such law. Basically a woman sets her husband’s bed on fire with him within killing him after she was severely beaten, beatings he routinely carried out and police were made aware of but did nothing about. She was acquitted via defense of Temporary Insanity. Was she wrong taking justice into her own hands, drawing forth the penalty of death by her own will? Did the lack of any justice she received in spite of reports of abuse made to police and police having witnessed clear signs of abuse on her body and heard statements made by her husband? Does a history of severe abuse make she who committed violence against the abuser a sympathetic character or, more so, not truly culpable? Did she really have other options / were they plausible though if women are more likely to be killed by an abusive partner upon trying to leave?
i dont get how a prosecutor can say a 16 year old is a career criminal?
@Realism I really, it was self defense. she explained her story and wrote her book. I'm glad she was able to get out and get the help she needed while she was in prison although she been through a lot in life and in prison. I'm glad she has matured and she wrote a book in jail and she met her husband in jail. She is out and is enjoying life with her husband, family and friends.
If she was a career criminal she wouldn't of needed to prostitute for money. Sounds like the guy she shot was a career sex offender. His parents said their son was a youth pastor and only brought her to his house to try to help her. How? Why didn't he stop at a wallmart and gwt her clean clothes and Hygeine stuff if he was going to offer her a place to stay? As a youth pastor why didn't he call the church? Women from the church? His parents? Teen shelters? Anyone to let people know he had picked up a homeless 16 yr old girl who's been prostituting? The church would of had plenty of resources. He didn't want anyone to know he picked her up and why would he have put her in his room tp sleep and sleep next to her? Yea right he picked up a homeless teenage prostitute to bring her to his house and help her yet put her in his bed to sleep and just went to sleep next to her? And what he told her was true that he was important and had connections and could of made her dissapear. No way their should not of been reasonable doubt that a a 16 yr old might of had to defend herself against a 42 yr old who picks her up and doesn't tell anybody about her there that she was in a situation with a man that showed at least some suspicion and probable cause the man was going to do something nefarious to her and she got herself in over her head.
I think this girl got extremely lucky! She murdered that man because she wanted to and did end up getting away with it in the end.
Love your Channel, DR. Grande 💜
Notwithstanding the important issue of mental health and culpability, the thing that screams out to me is that she was only 16, little more than a child. The USA’s penal system is so harsh.
Yes, very interesting and thought provoking as well as hilarious in a couple spots 😂
I really love it when you just can’t hold in that snark 😉
He's really good at Throwing Shade with a straight face kills me every time
I remember seeing this case a lot on Facebook and just feeling I couldn’t comment to anyone. I did ten minutes of actual research and came to what seemed an obvious conclusion:
Okay she got way to harsh a sentence, but deserved to be in prison for a long time, not was she wholly innocent.
I tend pretty far on the left but watching people I respected get enraged on her behalf pissed me off and saddened me.
She was pandering at a sonic, went home with him, he had no indication she was a minor. He was asleep, but might have been waiting for a rub and tug. She killed and robbed him on impulse.
Everyone said she was controlled by her pimp, that she was trafficked. Which is true but she killed the wrong guy!!!
She felt guilty, but wanted to not experience the consequences. She damned herself repeatedly, and not from bullshit cell are testimony.
And she got held up as proof our system is run by a mixture of Jeffrey Epstein and David duke. Yeah she was probably on the spectrum and off in the head, and her attorney wasn’t great. But she still deserved like thirty to life
Possibly parole after 23
If she was a guy, or ugly, she’d still be in prison.
I have watched a variety of "self-help", "mental health" videos. I am a LCSW/CASAC. The only reason I mention that is because I understand research, competency, and efficacy. Dr. Grande is a breath of fresh air. Not only is his analysis interesting, it is not based on BS. It is based on research, critical thinking, and a thoughtful delivery. I often wonder about all the other RUclipsrs claiming to be professionals?
Fascinating and detailed video as always, Dr. Grande! You look very smart today!
I wonder if you may be interested in the familicide crime by Christopher Foster in Shropshire? It's a fascinating case that seems to have been somewhat forgotten.
That would be a good one, unusual case hope he considers it..his list is getting longer by the day LOL!
As someone that has served time for a drug crime, I tend to think the mental health of a person is used as a crutch for a lot of offenders to get less time. When I would talk with these people they knew that they were doing wrong and always blamed someone else for their troubles. I do know we all have issues that affect our behavior i just think this allows many offenders to not take accountability for the crime they committed. Therefore there continue to offend. Just my opinion.
This is actually the first time I've heard about this case, and I especially appreciate when you add your own thoughts on these videos, in addition to the straight facts.
If possible, can you please do a video on cases where parents have forgotten their child in their car and the child dies as a result? I'm interested in hearing your opinions of how this trajedy happens, and where you weigh in on the legal punishment, if any, that the parent(s) may be given.
Thank you so much!!
She was young and pretty enough to be emotionally swaying, giving her leniency by exception. (What was priviledge again?)
The verdict of Dr Grande was very much on point, and I'm sad to see celebrities, who have based their entire life on vapid appearances, have such an impact on the justice system.
She would not have been released if it wasn't for her race/gender and the race/gender of the victim
I think 15 years is often plenty of time for someone to psychologically and emotionally mature enough to have a healthy relationship with the rest of society, given her young age (her brain would be not fully developed and her world view and thought patterns not as deeply entrenched as in an older person).
This case aside, it's impossible to fairly to judge everyone in society by one rulebook, because people all grow up being taught (through others' words and actions) different rules of life. Imagine if laws and sentences were all decided by people with extensive trauma history - those without those trauma histories would likely find themselves breaking the rules very often. Imo more effort needs to be put in to make sure children and young adults don't see the world in a warped way, not just to prevent criminality but also for society to get the best out of their potential.
Wait up, if you can't judge by one rule book, how are you gonna "make sure children and adults don't see the world in a warped way" ? You need a rule book to say what's warped lol. We don't police thoughtcrime yet!
Put more funding into child protection, that will help with the issues you raise. Those poor people are always overworked and leaving their jobs.
the mans life was lost , 16 is old enough to know what you are doing , 25years was more appropriate, she was not raped there was no gun he had , she should not be allowed softer punishment then say a 18 year old male.
She straight up murdered that man in cold blood and got away with it. Black privilege at its finest.
Great video as always! Would you be able to do a video on Self-defeating Personality Disorder? I haven't been able to find much on it.
Dr Grande cracking us up at 10:40 and 11:30. 18:15 really food for thought
I have seen the documentary on Netflix and I was thinking to ask your opinion doc, about the way the psychologist was investing her, but you gave your opinion already and I agree, that the way he asked her, was not always in a 'professional manner'. Thanks Dr. Grande and nice shirt btw 😃🇳🇱
He's definitely a well dressed man lol.
Hi Ben, how are you doing?
So I was reading about McDonald’s conducting trials for the creation of virus- proof restaurants in Arnhem, Netherlands. I found it to be quite innovative and I also remembered you:)
Hope you are enjoying your Sunday!😉
Also I just realized a made a grammar mistake on my comment 🤦🏻♀️
Urgh, I think I will leave it. I can’t afford to lose the heart..😕
Hi Rejane, nice to hear from you. I'm good and I hope you're also. Ooh, I haven't heard anything about the Macdonalds in my country. As far as I know, our government doesn't allow people to go to restaurants yet. Our restaurants and for example hairdresser are making all kinds of innovative ideas and plans. On about the 20th of May the government is going to see, what kinds of possibilities are possible to open up more restaurants and so. The numbers of people on the Intensive Care are important to make decisions. Today the number of deaths and people with Coronavirus on the IC is now the lowest since the outbreak. So, maybe some positive desssions can be made soon.
@@rejaneoliveira5019 Aaah, don't change anything, because we don't want to lose the hearts of our doctor 😁😁
Once again very good analysis - unfortunately we often get caught up in the emotive issues surrounding criminal cases - victims all round. Adding a comment on policy and systems took this insight to a higher level. 👍
I was upset until you started expressing that the system as a whole needs to be reformed. I have issues with the concept of a punitive justice system as a whole, but I also think the lengths of sentences for most crimes are excessive at best. Our justice system should be based on treatment, education, and rehabilitation of offenders. Crimes are very commonly the result of one's socioeconomic status or mental health, not because people are inherently evil. Being imprisoned is a traumatic experience that does little to prevent recidivism in most cases, and it disproportionately impacts people of color and poor people.
As someone who has been diagnosed with BPD, I am lucky that I was not arrested for some of the shit I did as a teen. I was going through a very traumatic time and hadn't had the chance to learn how to control my impulses. I did not kill anyone, but I was violent at times. I am ashamed of my behavior, but prison wouldn't have helped.
Society has the right to be protected from harmful people. Period.
@@joincoffee9383 Everyone would agree that people who are truly dangerous should _not_ be roaming free. But I think Sakura's point is that there are many, many prisoners who do not fall into that category. There are many who can be rehabilitated if we focus on rehabilitation rather than on punishment. Also, justice doesn't seem to be about fairness. When you have people in prison for years for non-violent offenses and pedophiles serving only a few of years (and we _know_ there is no cure for this affliction), the system is broken, which is what Dr. Grande says at the end of the video.
I worked in a prison for 10 years and they are not in there for going to church on Sunday. I would never want a person convicted for murder being my neighbor.
@@maryannebphillips9124 maybe your attitude is because you spent 10 years being one of the people paid to treat prisoners as, well, prisoners.