Diane Downs Murder Case | Mental Health & Personality
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- Опубликовано: 19 май 2020
- This video answers the questions: Can I analyze the Diane Downs murder case? What are the mental health and personality factors at work in this case?
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American Psychiatric Association. (2013). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders (5th ed.). Arlington, VA: Author.
VARGAS, E. (2019). My Mother’s Sins. 20/20 (ABC), 1.
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murderpedia.org/female.D/d/do...
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abcnews.go.com/US/surgeon-hel...
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www.dianedowns.com/
"I don't feel very lucky, I couldn't tie my laces for about two months, I think my kids were lucky..." I'll never forget those words.
Aren't they APPALLING?
Chilling!!
I cant tell you how much those words both creeped me out and pissed me off at the same time
Sick af
@Marianne Havisham did you you saw that interview when she said that?
She made more of a big whoop about not being able to tie her shoes and the scar on her arm than she did her children being shot and fighting for their lives
It was it was all a big joke to her or it was about her and not her kids
It was very creepy to see her just laughing it off like that
Every time I've seen Diane downs in a prison interview, she's missing a vital quality that makes us human, which is a conscience.
@denise simpson.....Amen. Spot on lady. No empathy. No conscience. Sick. Sick. Sick.
That's crazy you can diagnose that
@@AnnRiba Dr. Grande always states before his analysis of someone that he cannot "diagnose" any of these cases without physically meeting with the person/criminal. Even with that said he is nearly always "spot on" with his take on the case. Psychologists miss diagnosing people such as Diane Downs because she is a notorious malignant narcissist and a sociopath. Mental health professionals fail a great deal of the time with these individuals because they are taken in by their manipulation. (In my opinion. Allegedly. Don't come for me Diane Downs).
That doesn't make her guilty.
Given the current state of the world, plastic trash, starvation, wars, etc. I honestly don'tknow weather to laugh or cry over people who belive consciousness or the likes is an intergral part of humanity. Or even more than an absolute minority occurence.
Her behaviour was still wrong as hell (given she did it).
I lived in Eugene when this happened. Everyone thought she did it. She never missed a chance to get on TV and tell a different version of her story. She was her own worst enemy.
Reminded me of Susan Smith.
No evidence of manipulative behavior? She was a mail carrier who targeted one of the people she delivered mail to, waited til she knew she was in the fertile window of her cycle, brought whiskey and weed to his home and got pregnant with her fourth child. This women is pure evil.....Also in an interview she says she needs more kids because of the love they give her, no mention of her loving them.
@JR 1986 I couldn't agree me, I've been spending the day watching all of her interviews and she has to be one of the most blatantly obvious psychopaths ever interviewed. She has all the traits,
lack of empathy, guilt, conscience, or remorse.
shallow experiences of feelings or emotions.
impulsivity, and a weak ability to defer gratification and control behavior.
superficial charm and glibness.
@JR 1986 You stopped listening to him a while back, yet here you are.
Joan Crawford vibes
@@flufftronable He's professional and I don't doubt this is his day job but he hasn't struck me as particularly insightful in all the videos I've seen so far. Not trying to be a di&*, I'm sure he's a nice guy, and he can run his vids however he wants just saying what I see. Maybe he's just holding back due to the caution inherent to being employed in the field. In any case he's the only one doing this sort of analysis that I've found so far.
Archie Ames yea I was just shaking my head when he was saying that there were reasons to say she is innocent! I mean c’mon! Also in his video about Michael Jackson, I totally disagreed with him. So I think I’m gonna stop watching him too
The fact she unemotionally described blood gushing from her daughter's mouth and smiled after is unfathomable, love your final analysis on this one DR GRANDE
@Van Helsing yes ,of course ...there was powerful testimony given by her daughter which SEALED her fate ,thank goodness she will never be released.
How? You found her more disturbing that he did!
It seemed like she was expecting her description of her daughter bleeding from the mouth, would illicit sympathy from the interviewer. She just forgot not to smile when recounting her child's death-throes.
What makes married men start affairs with otherwoman.and poor kids end up victims .
@@kimmariemaddison4594 same reason women have affairs. Lust greed and maybe even financial reward.
The daughter who was born in prison went on to grow in to a beautiful young woman and lives a healthy, happy life with her loving adopted parents. She had got in touch with Diane, I believe in her late teens. She said Diane wrote many letters to her that rambled on and on about bizarre things. She realized she made a huge mistake, does not recognize her as her bio mom and has never had contact with her ever since.
Yea but her daughter seems off too no one even knew who she was till came out of the woodworks saying she had contact with Diane. She seems attention seeking just like her crazy mum. 🙃
'Becky', as she likes to be called, looks like, IMO, her birth mother. 'Becky' also says that 'James', Down's brother, tried to rope her into 'holding the torch' for Down's innocence. She refused. One thing 'Becky' did say was that Down's tried to get pregnant but was unable to due to STD.
@Van Helsing the reason I say this is because no one knew who she was until she came out and said that she was Diane's daughter and then in the end she was complaining about how people were reaching out to her and how she wanted people to leave her alone but at the end of the day she's the one who came out with her story
@@MA-rn2xp Becky probably didn't realize how much attention she would get.
Well, now that she knows what Dianne is really like maybe she can remove any blocks in the way of loving her adoptive parents as if they were her biological parents. Many kids do fine when they are young but they make adoption the excuse of a less than perfect relationship with their adoptive parents when it is really other issues. Most biological children work this out eventually but I think some adopted kids get stuck in idolizing their biological parents and demonizing their adoptive parents. The truth is that biological children often realize that their parents aren't perfect and come to terms with it whereas adoptive children can stay in a kind of limbo forever.
Diane Downs confirmed that the tape that she was playing in her car just before and during the murders was: 'Hungry Like The Wolf' by Duran Duran. The prosecutor played a tape of this during the trial, and, to the horror of everyone there, Downs tapped her feet and bobbed her head in time to the music, blissfully unaware of the effect of this behaviour on the jury.
Holy hell
That was crap that was in the book and movie but she never confirmed she was listening to that. It was just in her tape player. Big deal. They did play it and she did tap her foot. She did have an unusual affect. That does not equal guilt.
@@jmklind+ Dr. Grande stated that he thought that she was guilty.
Do you disagree with Dr. Grande?
Listening to Duran Duran is a crime itself. Guilty!
@@gamleskalle1 😁
Anyone who loses a child and says they can just make another one is clearly disturbed.
@Lacey Ann....Textbook narcissism.
Psychopath
@@garyw9164 It may just be the way he copes with death. A lot of people who subscribe to various Christian or Christian-like faiths believe that they will meet their loved ones in the afterlife. Many look forward, in a positive sense, to that reunion. It doesn't mean they want to die, but it may give them comfort believing/knowing that. He could very well mean well.
@@garyw9164 I couldn't agree with you more. As a FORMER member of the LDS (Mormon) church for 38 years (1954-1992) I also heard that comment through the years when people lost a child. VERY disturbing to me. I heard it at funerals when someone buried their child. It is NOT comforting. Thankfully, I never lost a child but I did lose my husband. People said something similar to me at the funeral. I had been married 25 years and had three teenagers at the time. And I kept hearing, "Don't grieve over him. You will be with him forever once you die." I don't care how many children one has (or spouses) you can't "replace" the one you lost. I believe it ties in to the Mormon belief system that "families are forever" and will exist together as an entity in the "celestial kingdom" together after death. and they will continue to propagate "spirit children" in the hereafter to populate other planets and give them earthly bodies. They truly believe that they will all be reunited for eternity so whether you have children here on Earth or in the afterlife shouldn't matter. Very disturbing way of handling grief.
That's a person who should not have children. Huge red flag. When your kids are the same to you as a litter of puppies, give the puppies to better homes.
I'm repulsed by Diane's attempts to ingratiate herself to anyone who will listen to her. Maybe I'm annoyed that she thinks she's fooling anyone?
And how she sticks by that story grrrrr how annoying, even the most prolific of killers admit everything in the end. Maybe she believes it.
@@jojozepofthejungle2655 or maybe its true
I think she almost certainly did the crimes (like 90/10 she did), and I agree her behavior does her no favors. Problem is, I've never been entirely comfortable with the conviction, as Dr. Grande isn't. The reasonable doubt is pretty clear here - the daughter's waffling (I think she saw her mom do it and didn't want to tell the police, but broke after a few months) which has the appearance of possible police coercion, the lack of any gunpowder, never finding the murder weapon, and the supposed other person who may or may not have confessed. I think the most likely explanation is Diane very nearly pulled off/got away with the perfect crime. Problem is the reasonable doubt clearly exists in this case.
She truly believes that she is smarter than anyone else, when she is clearly not
Or danger she might fool them😮😢
🕊♥️🫂
What an utterly bizarre and tragic case. My heart goes out to her children.
There is a book called 'Small Sacrifices' with a lot of details not given here.
I think Diane shot those kids.
She is as guilty as hell
One of the detectives who worked the case said Downs’ story was absurd on its face. A mother driving along a dark road at night with her three children is not going to pull over at the command of a strange man standing in road.
Yes. Her story never made sense from the start. But it was almost easier to believe too because people just couldn’t wrap their minds around a mother doing this to her own children.
Very true! Eerily similar to what Susan Smith had claimed too. She must have taken a page from Diane Downs's book with their skewed views on "stranger danger".... I would never stop, much less get out of my car or allow someone close enough to look into my car, while driving with my daughter unless I knew for sure that I was legally being pulled over by a police officer. Mothers also tend to fight to the death for their children and their would be more than enough DNA for police to find the individual. That is if they got away alive LOL... You just don't mess with Mama Bears! LOL
How do you know a mother would never stop? There is all kinds of mothers. Not everyone is a mama bear.
Not necessarily absurd. If a person has a personality wherein the major focus is on attention and excitement they may very well not even consider anyone else in the car and be compelled to stop for any man/person that will bring that excitement or "supply". I can't say whether she is innocent or guilty of the crimes but I wouldn't assume guilt by inappropriate reactions, conflicting accounts by witnesses (her children, one of whom only accused her after months of probing by officers and counselors) or even inconsistencies in her story. Those can happen even if the suspect is not guilty. Especially if the suspect has mental disorders. Just based off of the information given here I could not, in all conscience render a verdict of guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. But, that's just my opinion in this moot court. Lol
@@kavitadeva ... You're right and I stand corrected as I should have said "some" or "most" because you're absolutely correct that not all mothers are momma bears. Which is a very sad fact and honestly a hard pill to swallow, especially when it's your own mother who has never put in that full maternal bond or instilled the safety & security factor regarding her children. I don't know that all mothers wouldn't have stopped, I'm usually very careful in my wording when writing comments to make sure to not categorize/group individuals together. So, I do apologize for this mess up, BUT I don't take back anything I said regarding how I would act. I was thinking about what you said and I'm from NY, born and raised. Also born and raised in an Italian/Sicilian family. So, that's a different type of mentality than someone who has been born and raised in a completely polar opposite area with a different cultural background.
And I guess that my f**k up comment would be an example of bias and locking in on a particular belief and looking no further. Damn. You got me feeling all messed up now, as I truly try not to be judgmental and as honest as possible when I write my comments.
I really recommend looking up interviews that Diane Downs did . Downright bizarre.
I will check them out. Thanks.
@@Ron4885 You're welcome
Her parole interviews are off the chart nutjob. Dragging in unknown people, Israelis, jews, an uncle, as as I can recall. Eventually they have to cut her off as she is clearly out of her mind and talking garbage. The woman is unstable and always will be. And yes, I do believe she killed her children.
I am normally the person who says "Don't judge grieving people by the way they act, they could be innocent," but this woman... I don't think she's innocent at all. Bizarre is a good word to describe her interviews. When asked by the police to reenact what happened at night, she hit her cast in the car and started laughing, as if the whole thing was a joke. She started saying "Gosh, this is worse than..." and stopped herself. She thought she was smarter than everyone else.
@@DawnSuttonfabfour I agree 100% with you. She's nuttier than squirrel poop.
I saw an interview with the doctor who took care of her surviving daughter said that she approached him asking him to end the life support. He never said, and he never thought that her daughter wouldn't recover. That shocked me. That was what first really made me think yes, she's guilty. What mother would do that?
A mother who had already tried to kill the child. That part made me sure of her guilt. Everyone else would ask about her condition and how she was recovering. There's something very wrong with you if you want to take your child off life support, unless there's nothing more to do.
Thirty years ago, when I finally had courage to seek counseling, I asked for references/suggestions, and I ended up with the most wonderful counselor, who I discovered was a forensic psychologist!!! I really appreciated his manner, which was much like Dr. Grande's; his communication was direct and honest, and from that, I received genuine support which I am so grateful for to this day. Thank you, Dr. Grande, for all these really amazing videos!
Rip cheryl and daniel.
For anyone wishing to explore this topic further, the book by Ann Rule, "Small Sacrifices" provides a wealth of information. This book was turned into a film, too.
That book is HORRIBLY biased.
Anne Rules book was the best book ever written on this case. Anne had so much compassion for victims.
Jess well, she was a former cop. That has to influence a true crime writer.
@@jmklind Citations of what she reported that wasn't true?
Thank you for this recommendation.
I lived in Eugene during the time of this shooting and my best friend's dad was the lead investigator on the case.
So you probably know Christy and Danny. I hope they are doing well all things considered.
@Roxanne Olson..KUDOS and major props to him! He never let go investigating Diane Downs thankfully!!!
I was a neighbor. Creepy. Still live in the same house 30 years later. Used to see her kids play outside when I rode my bike by.
@@mysanityizgone4576 I remember hearing that although Diane was obsessed with getting pregnant, she was not a very conscientious parent, definitely not at all maternal. Did you ever see any indication of that?
@@peggypeggy4137 no. I was just a kid in the 80s. Elementary age.
During her interviews you could see duping delight facial expressions.
She is truly a monster.
Duping delight is an unusual terminology only used by body language anylizers and is not really a very good indicator of guilt
probably the second least subtle example ive ever seen. there’s another one on youtube i commented somewhere a long time ago, can’t remember who, but it was FLAGRANT.
diane is a close second tho.
@@sonicthehedgegod susan smith?
Can you?
Anne Rule did such an incredible job writing the book Small Sacrifices. I only wish Anne was still with us to do a deep dive into Vallow/ Daybell saga
Oh definitely. Those two, the poor kids. Anne Rule would have really covered it compassionately.
The film adaptation of "Small Sacrifices" is just as great as Farrah Fawcett gave a truly chilling performance as Diane Downs.
YES! I read that book maybe 30 years ago, & it is still very haunting to me. Ann Rule was a terrific writer - also The Stranger Beside Me about Ted Bundy.
She was always seeking the attention of men, and it is interesting that she had many children and was so into being a surrogate. That could be that she really enjoyed being pregnant because she liked the attention, and sympathy that comes with it.
Preach!
That's why I'm very surprised that he didn't mention that she became pregnant after being charged and arrested to manipulate the jury and onlookers.
Really? I found pregnancy to be uncomfortable and annoying in that people constantly ask you questions and give you unwanted advice.
All true
anon e muss same! I love my child more than anything and I would go through it all over again for her but I hated being pregnant. I know it’s different for everyone but I was sick, sore and in pain, along with beyond annoyed by people who asked “do you think you should be eating that/lifting that/doing thaaaattt?” However, like you, I am an introvert and not a murderer, so... 🤷🏻♀️
I work in a hospital with mothers and babies, and some of the things moms do to their children is sad. Thanks for the review Dr. Grandesito 👌🏼
--Plus how many times I saw abused kids cry out for their abuser, it’s all they know. One little girl--cute as a button 4 yr old-mom had ‘taught’ her not to touch the stove, gave the little girl 3Rd degree burns, but she still cried out for ‘mama’ 🤷♀️
Judy Wright - oh Judy. Breaks my heart. I would want to kill these “parents” - I cannot understand parental abuse against kids. It is crazy.
Thank you for your services @NaN RO
@@marys3127 Are you following the Lori Vallow case? Talk about disturbing.
@@marys3127 "kill?" That's a pretty strong word there
Apparently, the towel which Dianne wrapped around her wounded arm was neatly folded -something she could not have done with a wounded arm. In other words, she folded it before she shot herself.
Actually that's not correct. If seriously physically hurt,but not immediately incapacitated, your adrenaline levels shoot up through the roof. And for a long time you feel no pain whatsoever. There are many testimonies of this from the vietnam war onward to sporadic cases happening every day. So that's not an argument.
Having said that, I'm sure she did it.
Even if this were the case, I can't get past the level of reasonable doubt. Granted, I think it's around 90/10 she did it, but it's hard to entirely write off the lack of any gunpowder, lack of murder weapon, other person possibly confessing, the daughter's waffling, and the shady police and prosecutor antics in this case. Like Dr. Grande, I think she almost certainly did it, but the reasonable doubt is hard to overlook.
@@chickenlover657 I'm about 90% sure she did it. Problem is, I don't see 90% as enough to overcome the obvious reasonable doubt. I've seen people describe reasonable doubt as being at minimum 95% chance they did it, but more like 98-99% a fairer number. I would not feel comfortable at all with convicting her in this case, even knowing she almost certainly did it.
@@chad3232132 having heard these extra details about the interrogations, and the lack of physical evidence...I’m with you on this one. 90% or 99% chance she did it still leaves 10% or 1% of uncertainty...
exactly... she took her time
Hey Doc you are dishing these videos out like a madman. I'm enjoying them.🤪
Lol. That would be a great quote for his CV! ;)
Whenever Dianne would go to visit her daughter in the hospital , the child’s heart rate would go up dangerously high, indicating that the child was extremely frightened Otherwise her heart rate was within normal limits when Dianne wasn’t there
Very interesting
But they also revealed that it went up like that other times as well not just when she came in
I'm not sure where you got your background information, but there's a *lot* more out there about Diane, her history, behavior, and some of the evidence against her (like the towel folded), and evidence that corroborated the timing inconsistency with her arrival to the hospital. The kids were already heavily clotting by the time they arrived at the hospital, even though there wasn't enough time to happen according to *her* timeline. Additionally, the most famous piece of evidence, that she insisted the music that was playing while it happened, but also while the car was off (and no way for the music to therefore play). Now, I do think it is interesting about the idea of an accomplice, because I don't think that's really been discussed before by most people.
She also was diagnosed with histrionic personality disorder. From what I read she was diagnosed histrionic, narcissistic and antisocial, not borderline.
But she did it. totally without a doubt.
Thank you
I heard histrionic also, I think in one of her parole interviews. The 2020 one was a lulu. She had recently contacted the FBI.
I can't see how how she could have been diagnosed with borderline as people with that disorder do have feelings and have some kind of empathy. This woman was devoid of empathy or any kind of conscience.
He left out that she accused her father of molesting her during the trial, and then took it back after she was found guilty. I think that kind of lie points to some sort of personality disorder.
I wouldn’t be so sure. Who broke these women when they were children? Not saying it’s true that he molested her, but also SOMETHING happened. You can read Alice Miller’s books, which show case studies that extremely disturbed people are likely to have horrific traumas in their childhoods if you are able to find out what their childhoods were like (by interviewing neighbors, family members, teachers etc). That doesn’t excuse it, but it shows why some of these people are so mentally disturbed.
@@laraantipova389 I've got somewhat of a fascination for serial killers, so I'm pretty familiar with the concept of traumatic childhoods resulting in murderers. It's very common for serial killers to have a background of severe abuse and neglect. I also had the unfortunate experience of being raised by a sociopath and have my own traumatic childhood to cope with. But Diane Downs isn't in the same category. She didn't murder 3 people she just knew. She didn't lose her temper, shoot her kids in a fit of rage and then feel panic and remorse and attempt to cover it up out of fear. She planned the murders of her own children, on her own, with no outside influence, because she thought if she was childfree, her ex might leave his wife to be with her, despite h him never saying that to her,despite there being other options if she wanted to get out of being a mother. Her behavior and actions don't really align with someone acting out of childhood trauma. I believe she is either a psychopath (not sociopath), or seriously mentally ill, probably with multiple disorders, and was not properly diagnosed or treated for a long time. While it's still possible she was sexually abused at some point, I don't think it was by her father, and I don't think it had anything to do with her trying to kill all her children.
@@MissyRose94 I get where you are coming from and it’s pretty hard to grasp because there are too many factors to understand. If she is a psychopath (antisocial personality disorder) abuse and neglect is one of the risk factors, but someone must have the genetic factors too. I believe that narcissistic personality disorder is primarily caused by abuse and neglect.
I don’t know much about her childhood and I believe that everyone has trauma, but I would guess that she does have some severe trauma in her childhood, especially abuse and neglect.
It sort of reminds me of Chris Watts. A woman befriend the family and spent tons of time with them and then was shocked that they were extremely dysfunctional. I don’t have any answers, but it’s interesting. Have a nice weekend!
Sexual abuse does not excuse murder. Lots of people are abused but very few murder.
@@Catlily5 Agree. Nothing excuses any crime or sin.
I really appreciate that you always emphasize that simply watching someone's behaviour after a tragedy and deeming them as not "acting like they should" isn't a good enough indicator. That there isn't a really a "right" way to grieve. But, like in this incident, I feel that there are also limits to where it turns into downright bizzare behavior.
That's true, but smiling and saying you had it worse because you can't tie your shoes is....deranged. this woman took it to a new level.
I just watched the movie "Small Sacrifices " about Diane Downs last night. Great timing, Dr. Grande!
As soon as I saw the Good Doctor taking on Diane Downs, I knew this would be a good one.
Ooh I will watch that!!!
The movie is so good and heartbreaking. Those poor kids I can not imagine what it’s like to have your mother try to kill you.
That movie is a fiction lol
Testa Rossa I have done so many hours of research on this case. But ok. Agee to disagree.
"Conspired with somebody" - Good thinking, Dr. Grande. I had never considered that possibility. It would indeed explain the missing gun. Also the boy asking why a man shot him. But then there is the surviving girl's story. A very complicated story.
There was other circumstances I believe before Danny asked about that made it seem like he was coached by Diane, if I remember correctly.
@@susanoconnor8430 I didn't think of that. Diane coaching him - quite possible. Whereas the little girl could not be, due to her condition. And her testimony went a long way in court.
I also have wondered about the gun. Where did she hide it? Did she have enough money to hire someone as a hit man?
the kids were indoctrinated & subjected to drugs, taliban interrogation techniques & suggestions directly after the attack while still in shock, the whole trial was a shameful mess & a sham..she was no help , but the stuff that was admitted to evident & rejected was so random & biased it's aweful!!
Diane Downs had a lot of affairs, so she could very well have met someone (himself or someone he put her in touch with) who would do "the job" of killing her children and making it look like a different type of crime. I can't imagine the men she screwed around with were paragons of virtue, since they all knew she was married and had kids.
She is so chilling..the smile she gave in her most famous interview..diabolical
The dupers delight smile! SO CREEPY
@@Lollita23 except she’s not duping anyone!
@@melt7891 True!
This is the first and only time I've FINALLY heard an articulate professional suggest that Diane Downs meets the requirements for Histrionic Personality Disorder, rather than the Borderline Personality Disorder diagnosis that I've continuously heard given to her! Thank you Dr. Grande! Because, I had been thinking the same exact thing regarding her (and a few others) behavior. I've noticed that Histrionic Personality Disorder is rarely, if ever discussed as a possible diagnosis and that the quick "slap it on them" diagnosis seems to be BPD. This is extremely concerning for a few reasons.... People tend to hear & associate what they want and when they see a case like this and hear BPD, they tend to assume that a BPD diagnosis is automatically a "dangerous person". It's extremely ignorant and offensive, BUT let's be honest with ourselves, it's the way in which the mainstream media reports and the lack of understanding from the public.
I also remember back in college, my professor told the class that at some point they were going to discontinue & eliminate Histrionic Personality Disorder altogether from the DSM and combine it with Borderline Personality Disorder, yet they'll keep BPD as the "unstable and emotional" Cluster B personality disorder. I hope that's not true. BPD & HPD are similar BUT nothing alike and it's unfair to those of us who have BPD, to be demonized in the first place (or anyone to be for that matter) and the lack of knowledge along with this odd categorization of people is concerning to me.
Anyway, I agree with you, Diane Downs never kept her story straight, lied about the "gunman" at one point claiming it was 2 men, then had a rage fit during a confession I had heard in which she stated that she knew who the person was and while she was walking out, she had taunted police by saying something to the effect of good luck trying to find them. She does duping delight in almost all her interviews, I believe she wanted them to pull the plug on Kristi because she knew what happened and Diane didn't want her to talk. She treated pregnancy as a sport or like a "quick fix for attention" type of seeking thrill. She figured out a way to manipulate her cellmate to get the address she ultimately was found at when she broke out of prison and that was the cellmate's husband. She had zero empathy for her children and would redirect her interviews away from the loss/severe, life altering injuries of her children to none other than Diane herself! I mean, WTF?!?! Who does that and actually thinks like this??
I've often wondered if this was some type of drug deal or something like that, because it makes more sense since she had no GSR on her & never found the gun. The adoption of the children right after the case was slightly unethical yet I hope that they were able to get the necessary treatment, love, care and nurturing that they needed and lived somewhat normal lives. So sad to see cases like this and people who are just so dead inside that, like a ravenous wolf, feed off of other people's positive energy until they destroy them! Great video!
According to Small Sacrifices by Ann Rule, she was diagnosed with Histrionic and not with borderline.
Stacy Hi Stacy, my professor told us that nobody picks crazy.
BPDs are FAR more likely to hurt themselves than others but BPD is what every single female killer get put on them
@@zuglymonster .... 👏👏👏
Absolutely 100% agree with you and thank you for this! As someone who takes this diagnosis personally and also takes ALL the hurtful, ignorant and flat out uneducated lies & about pwBPD statements made, to heart. It just makes it that much harder to talk & confide in another when, like you had stated in your comment, "BPD is what every single female killer gets put on them"....
According to Wikipedia (and its source), she was disagnosed with it.
@Dr. Todd Grande I was an Oregonian when this happened. I was pregnant at the time and my son is now 36. Oregonians were deeply affected by this terrible crime and her poor children. It was on the news 24/7. At first many people believed there really was a killer running around out there. I think because people could not even wrap their minds around a mother doing this to her own children. In some ways it’s was almost preferable to believe it was a stranger because mamas aren’t supposed to shoot their own children. I can still cry when I remember what Diane Downs did. 💔😰
Diane Downs gave the detectives a billion reasons to suspect her and almost none to believe her story. Also curious that she was shot in the arm yet had no gunshot residue on her--she said the shooter was right next to her when she got shot. Whether she shot herself or was shot, you gotta imagine some residue would be there.
Would he loved for you to have done an analysis of her from watching her numerous interviews--determining if she's guilty or not is kind of a secondary point. Seeing how you would perceive her words and actions would have been incredibly interesting.
"When this man shot my daughter my first reaction was to snap back to my childhood...to the pain that had happened to me back then, my marriage, my entrapment by society..."
Me: THAT was the first reaction to seeing your child shot by a stranger? WTF?
"And I stood there and I looked at Kristie reaching, and...(she looks off and starts smiling) the blood that was gushing out of her mouth..."
Me: WTF?
"Everybody says 'you sure were lucky', well I don't feel lucky--(starts smiling and lets out a laugh)--I couldn't tie my damn shoes for about two months!"
Me: WHAT. THE. !$%!....Couldn't tie your shoes?...What about you weren't lucky because your children were shot and one of them died?!!!"
I remember reading Ann Rule’s amazing book on this case. Diane Downs is a very scary person. Hopefully, her children (still living) are okay.
I agree about the Histrionic part, if you look at that famous interview besides the part where she doesn't seem to feel guilty, you can see that she smiles all the time and even seems to enjoy when she says how the blood of one of her children was coming out of their mouth, so creepy.
That's not ejoyment, it's called duping delight.
This is a great way to spend quarentene Dr, Grande. Thanks for the distraction; it;s helpful to me.
Me as well!
Yeah the daily videos are great!
And unfortunately me too , so tired and sick of covid, but most people are, God bless!!! 🤗🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
I totally believe she conspired with someone. She had no gun residue, blood, no weapon, and she was clearly involved with all kinds of men. Great detective work Doctor!
I've thought that too, but I think it would be very hard to find someone else capable of committing a crime like this against children. She either did it alone or with help, but I definitely think she was involved.
There was a river nearby; if she threw it in the river inside its pouch, it could have floated clear out to the Pacific. She had the towel all ready for her bandage, not to mention choosing a friend who lived in a remote area, didn't have a phone, and therefore required visiting in person, so she probably had a plan for the gun disposal as well. She planned for all of these logistical things but she completely neglected the human factor because it was outside her comprehension.
@@MsLogjam Couldn't agree with you more if I tried.
There was a Man who confessed ?!!
@Van Helsing She claimed that she'd been shot in the arm, which would have accounted for blood and traces of gunpowder on her, plus she probably touched and maybe even hugged the children after she shot them; it's believed that Cheryl fell outside the car when she threw herself against the door in an attempt to escape so Diane would have needed to pick her up and shove her back in the car. There was a "spray" pattern of blood on the outside of the front passenger door, which indicates that Cheryl was shot the second time outside the car.
I remember reading the book "Small Sacrifices" by Ann Rule.
Great book. The Author mentioned that Diane was also shot in the wrist,,but it was thought she shot herself. During her trial they played the music cassette tape she had in her car that night.
As she sits there listening, she started kicking her leg to the beat of the music.
And her children end up dead, paralyzed and with a stroke...and she has a small wound on her wrist....that's not weird at all.
@Van Helsing, it can only be spelled one way.
It's one of the most common last names in Denmark. I share my exact name with at least 100 others in my country, so it's very boring.
I've heard of this case but I didn't know about the astounding lack of physical evidence. Wow. Thank you for sharing all of the facts! I do think she hired someone to perform the shooting. But the way the investigation & trial were conducted is shameful.
We have to remember this was almost 40 years ago. Investigations have improved. I lived in the area and had kids the same ages at the time. I recall this clearly. She is/was a scary creepy woman. She escaped from the women's prison in Salem and got pregnant, again! She's guilty.
I know right?? what a witch hunt & sham..but she kept stoking the flames to her own stake with her wierd Interviews & behaviour
watch other youtubers. there was much more evidence than he mentioned.
@@juliejanssen7637 She didn't get pregnant during her prison escape, though she was shacked up with a fellow inmate's husband.
Dr Grande I find your videos very interesting and helpful. Have you ever planned to make a video about adult children of alcoholics or the impact of alcoholism on mental health in general?
Good idea!
When you said Diane Downs attempted to hire a famous attorney, part of me hoped it would be Johnny Cochrane. "If she stopped for a man with bushy hair, finding her guilty would not be fair!"
I guess Johnny will be forever known for his knack for poetry!
Okay, that was funny 😉
cochran wouldnt represent trash like her. He was a civil rights attorney for the most part during a time when black people barely got a fair day in court.
Now that was a good one. 2 thumbs up. 🤣😂✌
You win the internet today! Congratulations 🎉!
Usually the award is handed to a comment left within the last month
The academy ( which consists of myself or better known as just some random troll on the internet)
What will you do next? Disney World?!
Any way best of luck in your future endeavors, we have never had a repeat winner, yet the academy wishes you the best of luck
How can one deminish the fact that Diane had poor response to such a tragedy -her children being shot? I believe that Dr. Grande is going to far this time in attempt to be objective ....🧐
I agree. Calling it 'unusual regulation' ??? It strikes me here Dr Grande is trying so hard to appear neutral he comes across as naive or indeed has a a chilling response himself- this was someone who was more concerned with the hassle of thier arm injury than losing thier children.
THANK YOU!!!!!! and he was TOO COWARDLY TO SHOW THE VIDEOS THAT WOULD HAVE BLOWN HIS "IDEAS" AWAY
I like Dr Grande, usually. But this seems like an audition for becoming a professional witness for criminal defense. All you have to do to make the big bucks doing this sort of work is to be 1) Sell out aka “sell your soul” 2) be willing to look at someone so blatantly guilty and have no conscience in casting doubt about their crimes.
Your videos are always so interesting I literally watch your videos twice sometimes even 3 times because you just make them so understandable and informing. One of the best RUclips channels in my opinion! Thank you
Diane's eyes! That pyscopath stare😳
I believe that police found her diary were she writes obsessively about her love for Robert Knickerbocker, who stated to her that he was not interested in bringing up her children. In her mind, she saw her children as the obstacle between herself and Robert going forward with this potential relationship.
Just like when someone is in a custody battle with ex spouse and murders them. They end up losing their children and their freedom. Just get a divorce. If she didn't want her kids then why not hand them over to their ex and continue on (or not) with her relationship? If that is not possible, then adopt them out. I think in her warped mind, she thought that Robert Knickerbocker would feel sorry for her and continue the affair. She also thought that she could get away with it, which is why most of these freaks do what they do.
Key evidence is her stalking behavior and her neediness. After the shooting she called the man who'd told her multiple times that he did not want to continue his affair with her.
Narcs can’t believe others don’t want them in their life, they press hard on their target versus working on themselves and their own life. They are very needy because they overindulge themselves and are actually spoiled no matter their bad financial situation which they destroyed. They don’t learn, they just attempt same dump job on another person.
Stalking.. ie hovering of the narcissist. Also With Histrionics. As well as anti social attempting to catch the prey.
Seems like you are doing older cases, so how about Jeffrey McDonald.
For some reason I want Dr.Grande to use his dry humor to explain mental health topics in regards to fetishes just for the humor lol.
That would be epic and wicked!
Dr. Grande: what about the unicorn memorial statue? That is the biggest one for me. There is no rational explanation for that one that has ever been presented to me.
Diane Downs might be the worst person over. I can't stand her. She reminds me of Susan Smith, but is somehow worse. I completely believe she did it.
Just about to comment this. That was probably the most damning that thing--the memorial to her kids before her kids were dead, or supposed to be dead.
he did not research nearly enough for this case.
your videos on narcissism helped me understand a few things about my town, Los Angeles. Thank you so much.
You’re blowing up Dr Grande! Don’t change anything.
Thanks for explaining her background so succinctly. I've seen numerous true crime programs on her case, but they lacked many of the issues you focus on in your summary of her history.
Thanks for covering this case. Your discussion is very interesting. I’ve always believed Diane was guilty but never considered she may have had an accomplice. That is really interesting and would explain the lack of gunshot residue on Diane.
Dr Grande, you should do a video on andrea yates!!
Yes! That is one lady who must've had a raging mental disorder.
Yes! Yes! I asked for Andrea Yates last month...maybe she’s moving towards the top of the list?
@@mcd5478 yes me too ...
I’d be interested in his take on Andrea Yates as well. I believe her case was tragic on many levels; she did drown her children - fair enough - but I felt like her husband was culpable in many ways as well. Could he not see how she was struggling?!? Could he not listen to her psychiatrist’s warnings about having more children?!? Idiot.
YES!!!!!
I think Diane was able to talk someone into shooting the children. She certainly had the ability to manipulate men. I took notes during this video - I seldom do that because I am familiar with the terminology. But I never heard of psychodysthymia until now. I do know from professional experience that a person can be labeled with various diagnoses depending on who interviews the person. Thanks for this video Doctor. It brushed the rust off my brain.
Diane’s spazed, self deprecating mood when demonstrating to an interviewer the encounter with the stranger is freaky.
Thank you, Doctor, for covering her! I'll NEVER forget this horrible Crime. I always felt she NEVER should have had Children. She's one of the most self absorbed individuals I've ever read about! Now, I'll watch you!
In the end of the video, you didn't factor in, that she claimed her surviving daughter was braindead and wanted to turn off the respirator. That, combined with her apparent need to speak to any journalist she could get attention from, should at least create some concern about her ability to experience regular emotions. You also didn't mention that her wounds were practically non-existing compared to the children's.
Good morning Dr. G ☀️! Thanks for another great vid.😉
Thank you Dr. Grande! I love watching your videos, they always generate an interesting dialog!
Can you analyze the case of Diane Schuler from the HBO documentary "There's Something Wrong With Aunt Diane"? That case still haunts me.
Yes, that one is so messed up. That would be an interesting one to hear about.
What is that case about?
@@tarzlegacy9446 it’s wild and heartbreaking. A woman drives the wrong way on the highway with multiple kids in the car and crashes.
He already did that case
Thank you so much for addressing the ethical & conflict of interest issues associated with the prosecutor adopting her surviving children. I’ve wondered about that for years, since I first heard of this case, but I’ve never seen it addressed anywhere before now.
It's always given me an uneasy feeling
@@bilindalaw-morley161 Thank you. Glad to know I'm not alone.
Fascinating lady! The promiscuity was definitely an interesting piece in her history. Thanks for the video, Dr. Grande!
Yessss!!! I requested Downs a few videos back and I'm glad you covered it!! Thanks for the great content!! (:
Great analysis Dr Grande.
Always love your videos.
I hope her Surviving Children are doing .🙏🙏🙏 This was fascinating, Doctor! Thank you!
Doc, there was powerful evidence in that the bullets recovered from the crime scene had at one time been in the 22 rifle that she had at home. Also, her daughter's testimony which for a kid to have to get a parent in trouble is huge. I think your point about all these experts and their conclusions is absolutely correct, but if you ever saw any of her interviews, something is mighty off! Love your channel. Super interesting.
You ALWAYS manage to shake my beliefs,and question what I've been taught throughout the decades , I love it! ;) 🧐🤔👍🏽
Dr. Grande..it is refreshing that you do not approach topics such as this with bias. Your logical rehash of the information is amazing. I enjoy your videos and view points. Very informative.
I read the book Small sacrifices the Ann Rule book on this case. I firmly believed she did it. The movie based on the book, just put me there. Farrah Fawcett was so good in that role.
I cringe when I hear women called "promiscuous." I wonder if any of the men she dated in Bible school got kicked out too.
I also cringe at that. Still so many double standards regarding men and women. Would we even have heard about this case If it were a man?
@@Ana-vz3uj Are you kidding? If it was a man who shot his kids under these same circumstances of course we would hear about it.
Yes. I think the standard view of conservative religious people would be that a man’s sexual acting out is the fault of the woman.
@@gloriamontgomery6900 anybody that calls themselves religious yet has sex isn't even following god. Who cares what those people think. they call themselves religious yet they cant even do that right. theyre fools, theyre frauds
Ana We did. Look at Chris Watts.
Always enjoy your videos!! Thank you so much !!
You're an excellent, excellent doctor. Each of your videos are so true and informative, that I learn and understand something new each time I watch. Thank you for examining so many cases.
DR GRANDE !! really dishing out these videos man ! i watch them all ! are you as bored as we all are during quarantine?? at least you inspire us to get some work done !
i often wonder how you choose witch cases to cover
Thank you for reviewing this case! I found your insight very interesting as I was very confused re her varying diagnoses. One thing I found intriguing was the "celebration" that she performed the day before the shooting. She took the kids out for a special day and even bought an engraved trophy to commemorate the day. I was reminded of this when the Timmothy Pitzen case happened as his mother also took him out on a sort of celebration tour before he went missing and she committed suicide. It makes me wonder if this is more common than we know... Do these mothers have some sort of instinct to make the child's last days happy, knowing what they have in store for them?
Chris Watts did the same thing taking the girls to a birthday party and letting them have fun all day, their last day of life.
--Not just moms, but David Rothenberg had taken his son to Disneyland back in ‘83 when he then doused him with gasoline & set his 6 yr old son on fire. David lived thru it but stayed in great pain. Most of those with men involve hatred towards their estranged spouses.
I've seen people giving their dog a wonderful last day before having the dog euthanized (for sad medical reasons).
See this is just another reason for me to support this channel. I've never heard of this case, but the good Dr. Always manages to make his presentation fascinating, informative, and finally, it has that dry wit seasoned throughout. If I'm ever in Deleware, im buying you a beer. Thanks again dr. Grande!
Hello. Just want to thank you for your uploads. You're truly the master. I can't stop watching😉
I loved Ann Rule's book "Small Sacrifices" about this case.
I live the work you do on this channel. Could you make a video one day on the male/female difference in HPD?
i really like this video. I've seen many videos on her and her case and you said many things that others are afraid to say. thank you
Thanks for your dedication Dr Grande.
To be honest, she gives me an uneasy feeling! Especially when she's smiling! I'm glad she's still locked up.
love your vids! any chance you could do the Madeline Mccan situation or the Amanda Knox ? I would love to hear your opinions on them.
I was living in North Eugene in the 80's. After the shooting I was in a Fred Myers which was either in North Eugene or Springfield (I was 12 and I can't remember which location). I was getting new shoes. I sat down on a bench to try on shoes and I was sitting next to a skinny blond haired woman who turned and gave me the weirdest look. I noticed she had her arm in a sling. She din't say anything and got up. My grandfather came over and said we were leaving. On the way out I noticed a bunch of people were talking and looking toward the shoe department. My grandfather told me when we got back to the car that was the woman who shot her kids. I am not sure how long after the shooting this was, may have been days or weeks? What a sad story.
Thank you for this video, really got me thinking.
I thought I heard all the info about this case. Thank you for bringing in all the facts. I truly appreciate your analytical mind and impartiality, Dr. Grande. Keep it up!
12:30 - "Diane has an unusual style of emotional regulation" - ?....She sleeps around and shoots her kids? That's pretty unusual, alright! I don't think it jives very well with (relatively simple and low-disruption) cyclothymia, either! ☻
@Tuck Hidden Values...Isn't that an understatement! Dr. Grande, even in a serious discussion, can give us one second of levity. It's needed.
@@kellyteacherforlife7165 Quite so! Side note - have to ask. Are you related to Heflins from Ft. Collins, Colorado? Just curious.... 😉
Sleeping around is pretty much the opposite of “unusual”.
I really love your videos and how science focused they are. I’ve only heard of this case from the point of view that she did it and was a bad person, and then the crime is explained. This give so much more context and info! Thank you!
I really enjoyed your analysis Dr. Grande. One of your best!
I really loved your comprehensive analysis, doctor!
I feel bad when I hear ”hungry like the wolf” by Duran Duran.
I get the creeps from that song because of her! It gives me a dark and scary feeling when I hear it now. Ruined forever by Ms. Downs😡
I never heard of the song until watching that movie. Ever since,if it comes on,I turn it off. Reminds me of this pathetic psychopath.
I live in this area and I still, to this day, hear it played on the radio around here. I always wonder if her daughter has ever heard it playing on the radio and it bothers me
Thank you for covering this case! As an Oregonian who lived in Springfield at the time this happened, although I was 11 or 12 then, I've always found this case interesting. Because I've lived in the area all my life, occasionally I meet people who either knew downs or interacted with her or the kids at the hospital. They would all agree with your assessment. Even though the case against has issues, they all have the same general feeling that they got from her, that being that while she was looking you straight in the eye, you got the feeling that at any given time that anything she said was a complete lie and she seemed to have no emotions for other people.... Unless it was her newest crush. If I remember correctly, on one or two occasions she wasnt upfront with her dates that she had kids until long after it was appropriate to tell someone. On 2 or 3 occasions She also left her kids with other people for days longer than they were expecting to have her kids. Her last child was planned even though it was during her trial. She had told one of her friends that she thought she we come across as more motherly and caring to the jury and judge if she were pregnant.
I know this is completely irrelevant, but she really put a damper on a popular pop/ rock song for many us. At the time, 'Hungry like the Wolf' was well known and liked and when it made news that there was a connection between her affinity for that song and playing it around the time she (or someone else) had shot her kids, well it really messed up a good song for many people.
Always interesting analyses 👍🏼
I like the photos throughout the video! Thanks!
Diane Downs is one of the sickest killers I have ever read about. I read the book but can't think of the name of it. She gives me the chills.
Small sacrifices
Small Sacrifices by Ann Rule...its great!
@@emilieraphael4431 I love Ann Rule's books. You want something really chilling? Read the book she wrote about Ted Bundy called 'The Stranger Beside Me'. She knew him back in his Seattle days and thought of him as a friend. Makes me wonder how many monsters I've had contact with in my life and never knew it.
Dr. Grande is truly one of the most authentic and thorough Dr.'s out there in this field! Love your videos and look forward to them all the time. I even have gotten my fiance into now watching your videos with me and he said "See, now there's a smart man that I can understand and appreciate how he looks at everything, not just one side of the case."
.... I was wondering if you could do a video on Darlie Routier, Theresa Knorr, Marybeth Tinning and the Jeffrey Macdonald case. I sincerely apologize if any or all of these cases have already been covered BUT would love to hear how you break down those cases/individuals and what you ultimately think about them! Thank you so much for ALL that you do! You were my doctor last summer, without your knowledge obviously LOL, when I had to ultimately admit that my own mother is a different kind of mother than I am. And had to admit to myself that certain things done by her have ultimately destroyed parts of my soul. And to (continue to) break that chain/cycle of abuse, regarding my own daughter, and the way in which my fiance & myself choose to parent her. You've helped so much more than I think you'll ever be able to understand! Thank you and thank you for another great video!
Ohh man! I had finally gotten my first ❤ from Dr. Grande, except I stupidly had noticed a grammatical error in my comment and edited it. Now my ❤ is gone. I'm sorry if I screwed something up, I just have this weird pet peeve regarding the things in which I write and the need to immediately correct them, after I reread my comments.
Stacy - Aww, we have all been there lol😅
It is pretty heartbreaking.😕
Hopefully he will see this message and send you another heart.👍🏼
Thank you so much for this perspective and analysis. It is the most impartial one I've seen so far. Also, you remind me of Leonard Hofstadter a little bit. :)
Thank you once again Dr. Grande. I truly appreciate the lack of sensationalism in your analysis .
Really great analysis as usual. This was another interesting case.
It never ceases to amaze me how much time and energy she puts into denying her obvious guilt but can’t see to find the time to shave her moustache
Yes..its obvious isn't it??
Ha ha I thought the same thing also with that mug of hers how did she keep getting pregnant ???
@klbax63 ikr? She has flat dead eyes and a mustache. Shed not 1 tear just laughed, joked and ate up the attention!
Thanks for keeping us sane (legally) right now. Take care.
Your set, your clothing, your eyeglasses and your tone of voice combine to project calm and serenity. Thank you.