Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold | Columbine Massacre | Mental Health & Personality
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 14 май 2024
- This video answers the questions: Can I analyze the mental health and personality factors in the Columbine massacre? What motivated Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold?
Support Dr. Grande on Patreon: / drgrande
American Psychiatric Association. (2013). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders (5th ed.). Arlington, VA: Author.
library.oapen.org/bitstream/h...
www.researchgate.net/profile/...
pdfs.semanticscholar.org/06cf...
citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/...
www.researchgate.net/profile/...
www.thedailybeast.com/the-las...
www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/colu...
extras.denverpost.com/news/co...
schoolshooters.info/sites/def...
Would you like to listen to my content in podcast form? With my partners at Ars Longa Media, we released True Crime Psychology and Personality: Narcissism, Psychopathy and the Minds of Dangerous Criminals. Subscribe to it anywhere you listen to podcasts.
I'm looking forward to putting more of my content into audio and developing new, original podcasts on mental health topics. Visit us online, and feel free to reach out with your questions or ideas by going to arslonga.media.
Dr. Grande’s True Crime Psychology and Personality podcast: www.arslonga.media
“A teacher described him as unattractive and a slacker..”
Nah..I see no evidence of a bullying culture in that school at all.
I lol'd at that descripition, how the hell is unattractive relevant?
If that's true that's actually kind of crazy
Perhaps that statement came after the fact of the shooting.
@@phineasgage8252 it's actually quite relevant. It suggests he was far from popular approval
Still not an excuse..
" he tells that student to leave, because he likes him" this is why I am always nice to people who seem like theyre on the edge
Yep, I think Klebold as an schizoid was very high in empathy and just going through a lot of pain. He had a moral compass but also felt there was a message to be sent to bullies. It's all about revenge at the end.
On God! I ALWAYS make sure I'm nice to the weird ones so they can give me a heads up.
@@TomikaKelly smart plus it can help make the world a better place
@Liza Tanzawa i constantly question whether i am good person lol
Dylan Roof, the Charleston shooter, told the arresting officer, "I almost didn't do it, because they were so nice to me." That's always really bothered me.
The teacher calling Dylan "unattractive" and "a slacker" kind of tells you all you need to know about the "bullying culture" at that place during that time.
It is never cool for a teacher to comment on the attractiveness of a student. Just weird.
And yet they insist that no bullying was made. Liars... and then this is the result
But what do a bunch of idiots blame for this? Video games
Was that comment before or after the attack?
You are so right. Teachers’ bullying sets the stage for others to bully and then it metastasizes to the workplace. And there are instances when the high school bullies become school administrators and condones the behavior of the next generation of bullies. This is what happened in a private Christian school in Kennesaw, GA. The school principal testified in juvenile court on behalf of the school bully who had a plan to kill my granddaughter and recruited others to help her. The Judge saw through it and the bully was found guilty of terrorism, a felony and given proper consequences. Oh, the bully even had a plan to dispose of my granddaughter’s body in a body of water. Fortunately, one of the students being recruited told my granddaughter. After an investigation and confessions the principal withheld it from police.
Are you explaining away the actions of these two losers, Darla? Because it sure seems like you’re saying that if someone is bullied (and I don’t care by whom) that it’s justification to take the life of someone who had nothing to do with the bullying. And many of those killed at Columbine didn’t bully them.
My brother was bullied relentlessly through school, he had social issues and didn't speak.. I was worried about him and how he might react.. kids were so, so mean.. teachers always told my parents it wasn't a problem.. but I was there.. it was a huge problem.. I never understood why they denied the bullying like that.. made us both out to be dramatic liars.. it was like teachers were gaslighting us..
Bullies are only effective against someone who believes what they say. Parents are not born with knowing how to parent they only know how their parents raised them.
I sometimes skipped classes because I was bullied, and i got suspended for it multiple times. When my parents had to have a meeting with the teachers (i was there too), the teachers told my parents that im making it all up as an excuse to skip class, they fucking said it in front of me and I’ll never forget it
@@benja303 that was likely one of the main reasons. The school denies bullying but their classmates and people who knew them said that there definitely was bullying
I'm so sorry that shit happened to your brother, and to anyone else there. I was bullied terribly from 3rd grade through high school. A few years ago, my older brother (nine years older) admitted he knew I was. My parents also knew, but no one did anything to help me, or even empathize. My entire year in fifth grade, every kid in the class except one called me "Sewer Pig." The teacher liked me, but still did nothing. For all I know, maybe I did smell, I lived on a farm and was only allowed a bath once a week...why didn't the teacher talk to my parents? Why didn't my big brother stick up for me? I'm so glad your brother had you! At least I had our dogs; they were always happy to see me, and always had time for me. They're probably the reason I didn't do anything awful.
@@Mike-01234 Parents only know how they were raised, yes...but they damn sure know what their parents did that felt hurtful. Being badly raised is no excuse for doing the same damage to your own children! When my son was mid-teens, he really started to realize the difference between my father, who was occasionally verbally abusive to him but much worse to me, and the way I was always supportive and kind to him, while still making it plain I wouldn't tolerate bad behavior because I expected better of him. He's told me several times he was glad I had "broken the chain." He's a teacher now, and a kind and empathetic one; I'm hugely proud of him.
"The faculty and the staff adamantly denied there was any type of excessive bullying or harassment at the school"
Yeah they always do. In most cases they are either blind or lying.
My life-sciences instructor in middle school and his colleagues were well-aware of excessive bullying in that zoo and clearly indicated this to me and a pal when he held us after class a bit to counsel us on how he'd dealt with a bully who'd bullied him at school He didn't tell us to do what he'd done but I suspect it was his intention we should if we were bullied. It involved a baseball bat and an empty lot he'd found out was on the homeward route of his bully. This was prefaced by him freely admitting to us that he and his fellows in that building were well-aware of the bullying and were trying to do their best to suppress it and then the further admission that the problem was beyond their abilities to cope with.
Then his little story. I'm sure if any instructor got found-out for such a lecture these days that would be the end of his teaching career. I really appreciated his caring enough about us to counsel us thusly. I was touched and he remains my favorite teacher all these decades later. He was a fine teacher too. I'll never forget him.
They also think bullying always looks like it does in Hollywood movies, wedgies or "gimme your lunch money nerd!".
The fact is bullying is usually psychological and subtle, and often passive aggressive and excluding.
The school said that about Phoebe prince .... and probable just about every bullying victim.
Bullied kids don’t take guns to school or make plans to blow up a school with the intent to kill as many people as possible. They target their bullies. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold may have been bullied, but that is not why this tragedy happened. Eric Harris wanted to kill people just for the thrill and to be infamous for being a mass killer.
There is no excuse for bullying, but bullying is it an excuse for a mass school shooting/killing.
@@lindsaycallahan8075 Eric Harris also said in his diaries that he was looking forward to college, so he could pick drunk girls up at parties or in bars, take them back to his dorm room, and rape them.
The parents of Eric and Dylan had to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in settlements to the families of the victims..yet, why wasnt the school held accountable when there were so many red flags ? Why wasnt the police dept held accountable?
OMG I had no idea that the parents had to pay! My God they lost their babies too and went without the community's support! They did not make their children do this they had no idea. Their children were old enough to decide this on their own to make their own choices how horribly tragic all of this was just to become found it with courts over money.
*Why weren't the gun shops they purchased from held accountable?!?!*
@@Griselda_Puppy They didn't purchase them from gun shops, they got them from friends.
"Robyn Anderson, a friend of Klebold and Harris, bought the shotguns and the Hi-Point 9mm Carbine at The Tanner Gun Show in December of 1998 from unlicensed sellers. Because Anderson purchased the guns for someone else, the transition constituted an illegal "straw purchase." Klebold and Harris bought the TEC-DC9 from a pizza shop employee named Mark Manes, who knew they were too young to purchase the assault pistol, but nevertheless sold it to them for $500."
Edit - If I understand correctly, Anderson wasn't charged because she bought the guns FOR Dylan and Eric (so they gave her their money to buy it for them). Manes was charged because he SOLD the TEC-9 to Dylan and Eric (directly), and they were underage.
@@KdotLINE I had read Anderson was not charged, in exchange for her full cooperation. Do you know for sure?
@@l.w.paradis2108 Yeah, you are partially correct, so I've changed the wording.
If I understand correctly, Anderson wasn't charged because she bought the guns FOR Dylan and Eric (so they gave her their money to buy it for them). Manes was charged because he SOLD the TEC-9 to Dylan and Eric (directly), and they were underage.
Some sort of legal loophole in CO at the time. Not sure if it's different now.
Columbine had a huge bullying problem. The teachers simply didn't give a fuck. Anybody that was different was an outcast. Somebody gets pushed into a locker enough times, and teachers ignore it, you don't just start hating the individual bully, but you begin to hate the school itself for allowing it.
@@Anton-nx3ydLmao 🤣
Why does Islam attract more converts than any other religion? One major reason is that vIslam says: "refugees welcome" to those fleeing failing liberal social and religious institutions.
Let me explain.
Liberal secularists promote the idea that their norms for regulating marriage, family, and religion are ideal.
Nevertheless, statistical data indicates that wherever a society is governed by liberal secular norms, people stop marrying, having children, and practising religion.
Put differently, the liberal is fundamentally a hypocrite - despite what he or she might say, no liberal person is actually interested in being part of a liberal marriage, a liberal family, or a liberal religion.
Matters are different when it comes to Islam.
Muslims also promote the idea that their norms for regulating marriage, family, and religion are ideal.
Moreover, statistical data indicates that wherever a society is governed by Islamic norms, it boosts marriage, birth rate, and religious practice.
Put differently, the Muslim is actually interested in being part of a Muslim marriage, a Muslim family, and the Muslim religion.
The current era is an era of refugees fleeing from liberalism. Liberal marriage, family, and religion have collapsed.
As a result, refugees from liberal societies seek marriage partners abroad, and if they practice any type of religion , it is a non-liberal version whose centers are located abroad. Islam is the most obvious choice for them.
They weren't bullied though wtf you mean lol
@@dustinstacey5181Yea they did
Dylan and Eric were absolutely bullied. I grew up in Littleton and many of us here saw how the Columbine jocks treated people who were different. The jocks received almost no punishment for it. In fact they got preferential treatment.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there were times where Eric and Dylan were rude to people. But the videos on here saying that they weren’t bullied are very wrong!
Eric Harris was bullied. Read the book authored by Brooks Brown!
My school was so toxic when it came to bullying. Most teachers ignored it and at worst participated. It was like the teachers acted like they were students as well. This was back between 95 through 98 that I’m referring to by the way.
Eren you are crazy and simp
38:10 *Let's offer a course on Western/liberal marriage:*
*_Lesson #1: Don't ever argue with your wife because that is emotional abuse, and she will call the police and accuse you of hurting her. Police don't need any evidence to arrest you, so enjoy your stay in prison._*
Lesson #2: Don't you ever dare to deny your wife having sex with others. You don't own her. If you're a real man, you'll help her find a boyfriend or two and let them use your bed while you sleep on the couch.
*Lesson #3: Be fair to each other, but remember, she can accuse you of abuse at any time and destroy your life.*
_Lesson #4. Your wife is tilth for all men (and women). They will use her as they, please. Enjoy your married celibacy._
Lesson #5: If your spouse wants to change "their" gender, don't argue. Just be happy for "them," you transphobe.
*_Lesson #6: Want a divorce? Don't want a divorce? Doesn't matter. She can leave you for any reason or no reason at all. She gets to take at least half your wealth and custody of your children, and you pay all her legal fees. She might even end up living with her boyfriends in the house you bought with your kids._*
Bitter?
@@fairyprincess911 I feel bad for what I did.
I wouldn't say Dylan applying for college means he truly was hopeful for his future. I applied for college in the last year of high school because of the pressure from my parents. While doing that I had a specific suicide plan all along and no intention whatsoever to live to even graduate high school. It was kind of to shut up my parents but to me the applications didn't mean nothing, I had no dreams or hopes and therefore just applied to something that sounded reasonable.
Thankfully I got my own depression sorted out and actually went onto college and not suicide.
That's so great! We are proud of you :)
congratulations on that..quite an accomplishment..Good luck in life to you..
Hey - just wanted to say that I’m really glad to hear that and I hope you’re doing well now! Take care :)
I hope ur still doing well man
@@BrianGannon371 thank you guys, yeah I’m doing well nowadays. Got therapy after high school and went on to university studying something I love, gonna graduate next year!
The officer was also probably thinking “I’m shooting at a kid, holy crap.”
That is interesting to think about. When do law enforcement or any stable minded human being begin to differentiate a child vs a literal monster during high risk situations? Granted only one of the pair was a minor.
SaviourMonkey probably their race unfortunately :/
@@Mach2style One of the reasons why child soldiers are used by warlords is surely the fact normal adults have instinctive mental blocks towards harming children. Even if these children are armed and dangerous.
Live Life preach.
@@Mach2style And the officer had no idea what Eric had done and was planning on doing. He knew a girl was shot (I guess she ran to the parking lot), but that's all he knew. This sounds like it was a small town and I would think law enforcement was not geared up mentally and physically for a shoot out with a kid.
Since when the hell does a teacher call a student "unattractive?" lmfao
Most teachers are pedophiles.
@@xavierharding8938 Not really, but most teachers are complacent towards the issue of bullying.
Yeah that’s odd, really shows there was definitely a strong bully culture there back then, even the damn teachers were getting involved.
@@darrenpat182 or having sex with their students nowadays
@@brendan9868 bro when I went to school, I had teachers PARTAKE in bullying sessions against me and others!!
Jeesh, if one of his teachers felt the need to describe Dylan as "unattractive" you wonder how nasty the environment in that school was for awkward outcasts. If the teachers couldn't spot vulnerable students (and have some empathy for them) what chance did anyone have?
We got this type of hate but turnedi it into strength and that never again boundary we would not shoot up a school tf
Teachers mocked students all the time in the 90s. Much worse was said to me to my face by teachers and without provocation.
some older people use unattractive as a synonym for unkempt or dirty
@@josiekoch7589 But it's still a really inappropriate thing for a teacher - supposed to he a role model, impartial and fair - to say about a student 🤷♂️
@@NoReligion77 That doesn’t make it excusable for that environment to exist, nor does it mean that everyone “takes the L” like YOU when being bullied by teachers and students at SCHOOL.
Do better than this!
this man doesn't laugh at his own jokes. like ever. the humor sneaks up on me.
My favorite type of humor is dry.
Love dry humor
Its all about the execution lol
Dead pan.
Why
I think what makes this case unique is that there were two shooters. Ther fact that two teenagers reached the same point of desperation and homicidal self destruction together
is utterly shocking.
They were also long-term best friends, and planned nbk together for a year
@@Stonerkittyy yep
There were more than two shooters. Read the Columbine 11k Reports!
This is particularly surprising considering that the overwhelming majority of school shooters act alone.
Shocking? They probably nurtured it in each other like a lot of pairs do.
My father has always told me the story of a kid in his school when he was in high school. A kid of small stature was always being bullied- one big kid in particular was especially cruel. One day at lunch, the small kid stabbed the big kid. My dad says, "No one ever bothered that kid again." My dad is 72.
I was in highschool in the early 80's and that how people usually delt with the bullies in theses days.
"No one ever bothered that kid again" Yeah, because he wasn't around to get bullied after he got kicked out lol
@@xminusone1Indeed, those who disbelieve spend their wealth to avert [people] from the way of Allāh. So they will spend it; then it will be for them a [source of] regret; then they will be overcome. And those who have disbelieved - unto Hell they will be gathered.
Qur'aan 8:36
I remember the media blamed their shooting on playing the videogame Doom. It sure wasn't the videogames fault. I played Doom ever since I was a kid and I turned out fine. I was also bullied at school and I understand wanting to get payback on the bullies but to actually go through with it means either they reached a total breaking point or they were mentally unstable.
Video games never ever ever cause violence. There have been countless studies on this
@@nman551
Some teaches it
Also, the sun is hot
@@nman551 Video games probably decreases the urge.
just a few years ago Trump repeated that lie
"This was the deadliest shooting in history at that time..."
Says a lot how as a society we didn't improve
the objective of the authorities has never been improvement
@@1MpUrO police brutality?
That was a very wrong statement, there were many worse shootings before columbine.
@@dawsonlenard2848 they should've specified school shooting
I think they ended up inspiring others actually
Marilyn Manson was once asked what he would say to these boys... He said “ I would say nothing, I would just listen to them, something no one ever did”
If I waited for someone to engage me in conversation before I let them listen to me I'd probably be so isolated I'd be doing things like that too. I had a relative from Denver who came to visit a couple of times. When I was showing him the local sights he was flabbergasted that I'd just start talking to some stranger standing around and strike up a conversation and told me that nobody from where he lived would *ever* do such a thing.
Seems to work for us hereabouts. It's never caused me a lick of trouble.
No one wanted to speak to them and hang and get to know them.
I don’t think that’s true about not listening. At least one had gone to see a psychologist
@@diogeneslamplit6573 You are talking about meaningless small talk and futile banter...that is by no means a conversation. It's trash.
bullshit, they chose to speak with weapons...also, don't forget they were in a program where they were followed up for the break in in the van, they were dishonest and not truthful when they ultimately feigned 'being remorseful' and wrote fake letter to the owner of the van with apologies.
I've read "Eric went to the school to kill and didn't care if he died. Dylan went there to die and didn't care if he killed"
“A teacher described him as unattractive..."
And they want to say there was no bullying in that school. Yeah, okay lmfao. This actually happened to me once while I was at school. I was in the line at lunch and the lunch lady got the attention of another woman and pointed at my legs and said "Look at how skinny his legs are!" This was humiliating for me, because I had been struggling with an eating disorder and finally gained the confidence to wear something tighter that day. So, while it's deeply unfortunate that the teachers/staff at Columbine were verbally abusive to (or when talking about) their students, it does not surprise me in the slightest.
I get this everytime too. Always when people have to sit next to me in class they always have the nerve to say something like “I’m not sitting next to that idiot” people can never keep their mouth shut. They always have to read their thoughts out loud and can’t keep it to their selves
i got one from my brother dying
Just goes to show that maturity doesn't correlate to age, it's a mindset. Sorry you went through that.
It was, but its uncertain wether or not or to what extent Eric and Dylan were bullied. Yet, the Regina Huerter report suggest that there was.
I personally believe that most of the bullying took place up until 1998, given that many of the more prominent bullies graduated at that point.
@@Cytise91 How are you holding up now?
Dylan's mother did a Ted Talk and you can tell how genuinely confused she was and not understanding on why her son would do this.
Yeah I watched her talk it was really interesting but also sad
Her book was very interesting...
@@tinafoster8665 "Phony grief"? Who hurt you? Why on earth should she validate anything he did? He murdered people and destroyed families.
I feel like she puts all the blame on Harris, as if he manipulated Dylan
@@tinafoster8665 it's an unpopular opinion, but i agree with you on your assessment of her. she seemed very self-serving and incredibly disingenuous. she ignored him but then is confused about how he ended up doing what he did. she struck me as a narcissistic mother because she made the whole thing about her and her 'survival.' no thank you.
I loved "he thought of himself as schizophrenic, clearly not understanding what's involved with that disorder"
Yeahhh, most people that claim shit like that know absolutely nothing about schizophrenia.
Most people that I’ve met still think schizophrenia is dissociative identity disorder (split/multiple personalities).
In reality, the common, functional kinda schizophrenia that you see is mostly either paranoid delusions, or severe auditory/visual hallucinations).
I’m mildly schizoaffective (bipolar disorder plus schizophrenia at the same time) and the hallucinations can be SUPER annoying. I dont really get visual hallucinations, but once or twice a year when I have bad breakdowns, I have really bad auditory hallucinations, which can sounds anywhere from gentle whispering to straight up screaming inside my head.
The visual hallucinations are the ones that can really scare people, because a lot of people cant even conceptualize how fucked up the visual hallucinations can be (like, to the point that the person jn question literally cant even tell where the fuck they are because the hallucinations are so severe)
@ Steve Stever Do you mind answering if you’re on medication? Just curious. My sibling has paranoid schizophrenia and he must take his medication daily or he can’t function.
@@slaws2279 Im not sure what your implying here, are you saying that if I did take medication that I would know that that's what paranoid schizophrenic people put up with? Because if so then I'm already aware that they need that to function normally. I was making a comment that was agreeing to the fact about how Eric didn't even have a clear view on what schizophrenia is and he either said it because he was kidding or just to be some dumb edgelord.
@ b1az3d lol. I’m not implying anything, and I wasn’t responding to your comment directly. My comment was directed to the person who commented directly above me, as he references to personally experiencing hallucinations and/or delusions. I was just curious as to how other people are treated for the illness bc my sibling suffers from it, and I know every case is different.
YES...many people he MIGHT had been one
"Bullying culture" has been around in every school for decades. Only back when I was a kid, you could physically confront the bullies and not worry about being expelled or criminalized for it. Now, you're punished for standing up for yourself which leaves these kids with hate and no alternative (in their mind) but to do these things.
Pretty good take on the context, I have to agree.
Pretty sure for centuries
So because they were bullied that makes it ok? Pretty sure most ppl dont commit mass shootings cause they were bullied.....
@bryced7633 nowhere did I say being bullied makes it ok. And you could be right that most mass shooters aren't bullied, but the 2 being discussed here were bullied, and were mass shooters.
@@kellyzimmerman7631Lmao 🤣
Why does Islam attract more converts than any other religion? One major reason is that vIslam says: "refugees welcome" to those fleeing failing liberal social and religious institutions.
Let me explain.
Liberal secularists promote the idea that their norms for regulating marriage, family, and religion are ideal.
Nevertheless, statistical data indicates that wherever a society is governed by liberal secular norms, people stop marrying, having children, and practising religion.
Put differently, the liberal is fundamentally a hypocrite - despite what he or she might say, no liberal person is actually interested in being part of a liberal marriage, a liberal family, or a liberal religion.
Matters are different when it comes to Islam.
Muslims also promote the idea that their norms for regulating marriage, family, and religion are ideal.
Moreover, statistical data indicates that wherever a society is governed by Islamic norms, it boosts marriage, birth rate, and religious practice.
Put differently, the Muslim is actually interested in being part of a Muslim marriage, a Muslim family, and the Muslim religion.
The current era is an era of refugees fleeing from liberalism. Liberal marriage, family, and religion have collapsed.
As a result, refugees from liberal societies seek marriage partners abroad, and if they practice any type of religion , it is a non-liberal version whose centers are located abroad. Islam is the most obvious choice for them.
I lived and worked near Columbine. I'll never forget that day. It was almost surreal.
You must be close to Wadsworth and Bowles.
many said the school was a dump not that good
The most surprising thing here is that Dr G really seems to know his guns
Mess with the Doc you get the glock
Nice Meme 😐
@@FrogEnjoyer17 when you credit card declines you get glock
@@FrogEnjoyer17 Lmao
@@FrogEnjoyer17 😂
Case suggestion: the Oscar Pistorius case. The South African Olympian who shot and killed his girlfriend and claimed it was by accident. He never denied shooting her, so a lot of his defense rested on his state of mind and mental health. Would love to hear your thoughts.
I'll never forget that case, I nearly believed his story about thinking the house was being buglarised by intruders. Until, the history of the relationship and his behaviour came out.
A great suggestion!
Yes. I was thinking about that one, too. I'm so glad you did it 😊
Good suggestion
Great suggestion! Pistorius was an entitled misogynist.
I was treated very well in high school from 2000 - 2004 because it was fresh on everyone's mind and I wore death metal shirts every day. They would all be nice to the metal heads because you never know who's going to shoot people. I don't approve of what they did, it was horrible, but I think we do need to acknowledge that it placed an important issue in the spotlight and I think a lot of people thought twice about bullying for a while after that. High school is the worst period of a lot of people's lives.
"The faculty and staff adamantly deny that their was any time of bullying or harassment." I have dealt with schools and teachers when I was a kid about bullying. The teachers don't care. The school doesn't care. The only time they care is when the result of the bullying brings them into a negative light.
I remember reading an article showing Eric completed a psychiatric questionnaire and ticked "depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts " and "homicidal thoughts"... Yet nothing was really done. I do wonder if anything could have changed if the red flags were taken seriously.
Eric saw a psychiatrist and was prescribed antidepressants
@@melli2413 solution to everything in that damn country
@@tahsina.c yea and it costs thousands just to even talk to one
Definitely.
Yep, checked homicidal thoughts and he still graduated from the diversion program.
That was on the diversion programs intake form, which his parents saw.
I'd be VERY interested in your analysis of Dylan Klebold's MOTHER, especially in light of (RUclips) interviews where she said she had "no idea her son was depressed or suicidal" and that there weren't any serious warning signs (of something of this magnitude.) Was/Is she THAT different than thousands of other parents who think their teens might just be going through a rough patch? and where there ARE no dire outcomes? As a psychologist, what would you advise parents to look for and when to seriously intervene?
Yes and the mom of the Sandyhook elementary school shooter too. She knew her son was troubled yet gave him access to weapons.
I thought it was interesting Dr Grande said there was evidence she and Dylan's father were cold in the video, but she doesn't seem that way now. Perhaps back in the 90s she and her husband were quite focused on other things (career maybe?) and didn't pay enough attention to their kids or realize it could have been affecting them. I'm sure she has spent a lot of time feeling guilt and trying to think what she could have done differently.
@@barbaravyse660 Everyone has access to weapons in the usa. If you don't, you just steal one from your relatives, friends, friend's fathers, or walmart.
Yes! Yes!Yes! I know about her, too. My aunt and uncle knew my cousin was depressed and didn't know the depth. Their other son and his wife lost their son to suicide too. They knew he was depressed but not how depressed. I find it very hard to believe, personally, that Sue didn't know at all. She feels so guilty now. She said herself she didn't want to be seen as a bad mother. I think she was ignorant of her son plight. Ignorance is bliss. My perspective.
Theres a Ted Talks of her. Very moving
It's been said that school is 10% about getting an education and 90% about finding your place in the pecking order. From my personal experience, this is correct.
Not really. The world is run by nerds, contrary to school environments.
@@luvfreedom1470 cope
@@themostdiabolicalhater5986 Why do I have to cope? I'm a degreed engineer "nerd" and make six figs. I'm a do'in a'ight 😆
@@luvfreedom1470Cope, the jocks get all the pussy and become overpaid incompetent managers and stockbrokers, social skills and attractiveness alway beat intelligence
I'm a little shocked at how even a teacher would describe either of these kids as unattractive -- worst still, that they would feel compelled to make it their case to describe anyone's children as such. I was a child of the 90's however, so I know better then to doubt this. Life was hell. Don't let the up beat music fool you. 💙
Yeah, like Possum Kingdom
I have a friend who hung out with them. They said they were very laid back . They liked video games and nerdy things and were very quiet, my friend never would have guessed that they would do this.
That’s insane man
Seeing a lot of videos like these and even some of people who get caught trying to meet minors shows me how much people can hide things
Mental health is just very important
Jesus
Note to self: be friends with everyone
Who’s your friend?
Damn girl u bad
I wonder how these guy's would've turned out if they never met. This is like the perfect storm for chaos for 2 psychos to team up.
Eric would end up being a seriel killer or some shit.
yeah their dialogue during the shooting sounds like they’re used to hyping each other up or feeding off eachothers energy.
People like them needed love…. All killers have social trauma
They’d both end up in jail separately
Eric was a serial killer in the making.
You know shit is bad when RUclips asks "you sure bro" twice
If you are so depressed that you view your own life as worthless, then it isn't a stretch to think you likely won't value other people's lives either, especially when these others are a source for much of your sorrow.
Applying to colleges isn't an indication of looking forward to the future. His parents and teachers probably pushed him to apply. It's like a homework assignment. It's expected.
@Sativa Are you okay? A lot of people don't really want to go to college, but are constantly told it's the best option for them. If you're a human being who has been through school, you should get this idea. It's really not that hard to imagine.
Pray tell. What's the point of a comment section if you can't discuss your thoughts on the damn video?
Things like this can be a conversation. If you let it.
He may have also done it to help keep suspicion low and assure his parents and people around him
@@luigi7834 I think that is the most logical explanation. Eric and Dylan planned the massacre for a year and knew they would die doing it. They knew they won't actually go to college so doing it was, on Dylan's part, just so his parents would not suspect something is wrong.
Yeah exactly it's all how data is interpreted maybe having to go to college is what triggered him he would rather die than have to go.
Dr. Grande,
To be honest I watched this video to see why you were doing it, and to probably criticize it.
However, you did a very reasonable analysis based on the information you have.
Nice work
Randy Brown
A Columbine parent.
It's sad nobody realizes who you are sir. I have so much respect for you!
@@alanmontoya7162 well thank you Alan.
Father of Brooks Brown?Man who have seen basement tapes? 😎
@@babaja23 a long time ago. True.
This man is a national treasure!
And his son Brooks has legendary likeability status..👍👍
The 90s was big on bullying especially by adults. When I was in middle school I had to take a form to all my teachers about how I dressed in order to join the cheerleading team. So if you were poor and unable to buy nice clothes you couldn’t join.
messed up
School culture is like prison culture. The strong beat up on the weak and the guards stand back and look away.
Damn right. High School is a meat grinder. Society has to deal with whats churned out.
When faculty and staff say there is no bullying problem, they are naive. It is the same as a prison guard saying there are no drugs in this prison.
"bullying?? in my school???? _absolutely not._ never happened. my students are all angels."
They're in denial.
Actually at my school everyone got along. Speak for yourself
School Faculty are in a hierarchy. Of course they're going to deny any bullying.
@jesse Moore *Absolutely correct!!!*
Breakfast, coffee and Dr. Grande. Couldn’t ask for a better morning.
I share your joy!!
Add a bowl to it
But only if you’re of age
@@chcknpie04 Got one lit with you!
@@chcknpie04 damn, you need weed to start your day? Thats not good.
For me it’s chocolate milk and pizza dinner
The kid in the library who asked “hey Dylan…what are you doing” was one of the actual members of the trench coat mafia. He later said the group just played D&D together. Just thought the name sounded cool. Neither perp was in the group at all.
I graduated high school in 98' and I remember watching this live on the news. It was so shocking and horrible. I wonder how the victims feel watching similar events happen year after year with nothing changing. It's so sad.
I feel you Amdns🥲
If they didn’t bully kids there will be no problem
this Is a political issue
I was a senior in high school in 1999. I remember watching this live on t.v. as well. For a long time, I thought only Eric and Dylan did the shootings. It is too bad that many statements in the Columbine 11k Reports conflict with the official narrative. Many students stated, "redacted," not Eric or Dylan, shot at them.
@@Armintanzarian23882 wrong. Bullying isn't a new thing. It's been happening for centuries and happens to everyone. Yet...school shootings are a relatively new thing and guns are much more difficult to get than they were in the 80s and before. Kids have no social skills and absolutely no coping skills. That is the problem and the parents are at fault.
What always amazes me about these kinds of situations is the lack of hope for the future. Eric and Dylan only had to hang on for two more months and they would have been DONE with high school forever. They could have gone on to college, got girlfriends (or boyfriends) and careers, had lives. How hopeless must you be to think that murder suicide is your best option? They had the foresight and self control to plan the attack, but not to plan for a life after high school. Strange.
Marx hated the rich more than he loved the poor, they say. These guys too, perhaps?
@Liza Tanzawa Absolutely agreed Liza. And it seems to me Klebold had Schizoid Personality Disorder. These kind of individuals are quite lacking in social skills, have a high sensitivity to negative criticism and just act weird, so they naturally tend to be picked on in a school environment. For some, bullying is bad, for others, it is much more painful and I think that was the case with Klebold. High neuroticism and a sense that everyone was against him must also have pushed him towards the murders. Eric must have been an enabler for him. He validated Klebold's idea of revenge and his antisocial skills were necessary to carry on the plan. Eric was always the wolf, and Klebold a black tormented sheep.
@Liza Tanzawa Unity Consciousness is a concept I've been working on. I got attacked in 2004 by four teen boys, kicked unconscious. I don't want to lose time hating anyone. I wish that didn't happen, but I did choose my career path. One of my training sergeants told me how violent kids could be, showed me the statistics. I still went ahead with being an unarmed school police. I worked at JeffCo Schools, supervised armed security and dispatchers after the murders took place. I took that job, knowing how traumatized my people would be. It was a hard assignment but I hope I was able to provide some fresh energy when they were tired. My Dad got cancer, and I moved back to Albuquerque. Hating Cancer is useless, though. Do you see what I mean? :)
@@josephlopez6165 I agree that as attractive as it can be, hate is not the answer. Over the years I have heard multiple examples of people being brought out of the white power movement, and it always has been through someone offering them compassion and respect, even if they did not seem to deserve it. I appreciate your efforts to respond to violence with caring, not rage. It is hard, but I truly believe it is the only way to make the world a better place.
But that’s teenagers! Not that most of them become mass murderers, thank God, but lack of foresight can be so typical in that age group. A teenager will ruin their life over something comparatively trivial; an adult won’t.
Dr. Grande produces quality content faster than any RUclipsr I’ve ever watched.
The Stephen King of influencers?
He's a Doctor 🤷♂️
@suny123boy1 Thanks buddy, my autocorrect is usually smarter than me. Not that time! :)
Now your just Over Exterggrating
Seems like he's just doing RUclips full time now...?
I always wonder when does a person cross that line in their mind? This whole thing is such a tragedy. Just a horrible, horrible tragedy.
l think they were full blown psychopaths and nothing would stopped them.
The dangerous time wherein we are young adults who can grasp horrifying Acts and emotional saturation, yet our disappointingly long gestation period/ road to maturity is farther away than we think at that age. We're powerful and emotional and underdeveloped. Perfect storm
@@Lilly-hh9es I think they were bullied. It's shown in one of their videos before the shooting. When Dylan is recording Eric of them walking in the hallways, a kid smacks Dylan's camera. It was evident that they were both victims of constant bullying and it's sad knowing that they had other friends too that didn't seem to care much. From what I understand Dylan and Eric really had each other's backs though alot since they met in the 7th grade and in the end, they committed suicide right next to each other in the library. They were the most savage school shooters by far.
As someone bullied, I would never do that. But the thought of those bullies at the mercy of someone who has none,in a situation like this, engenders no sympathy at all. Just the enjoyment of their karma.
@@robinantonio8870 but not everyone murdered that day was a bully. And what causes bullying in the first place? I think it’s way over 50% peer acceptance, so some of the students murdered might have been bystanders who didn’t want to get involved on either side, especially the special needs young man. He already had cards stacked against him and was just trying to get thru high school the best he could. He was also murdered. What about his karma?
In my school the headmaster always said "we don't tolerate bullying".... I had learning difficulties I got picked on everyday and the 5 years I was there.......... 3 kids committed suicide due to bullying
My sister went to high school with Eric before he moved CO and went to columbine... he was quiet but nice. You can look it up he lived in NY before he moved to CO since his dad was in the military.
It’s wild she knew him, and how different her experiences with him were than what happened in Colorado.
Perhaps, as i do not know your family, but the Harriss' moved to CO when Eric was in Junior High.
Wtf is going on in Colorado. The Aurora theater shooter was in Colorado too.
@@Lordoftheswollen Something Sinister. There have been about 5 mass school or public area shootings by young people in the Denver area since Columbine in 1999. The last one was two years ago at the STEM school, a handful of miles away from CHS.
@@Lordoftheswollen Plus, a thwarted bomb plot at Isaac Newton Mid school near CHS. And former CHS principal Frank DeAbgelis supposedly stopped his own one, when an out of state kid contacted him and somehow, super sleuth DeAngelis discovered the kids own bombing plot for his own hometown in another state. The day the two met, was like a year plus a day before shooting at Sandy Hook would happen!!
@Alex Friedman no but he really did live in new york seriously & was into sports i think he played baseball for some time. so her statement is very possible
Everything about this is so tragic, and makes me wonder why all educators at all levels aren't trained in some way to spot alarming behaviors or attitudes.
Lol
@Charlie Brown What a thorough analyses, You must have spend at least 10 seconds thinking about that.
How when half of the americans openly talk about their love of weapons?!?! Impossible for them to spot it if you ask me. Here the teacher would here 'gun' once and start investigating.
I agree. I think as a collective whole, the U.S. needs to put mental health into focus more. We need the right people to have the right training. We need the conversation around mental health to be something that's more important. People wonder how tragedies happen. It's because no one talks about mental health until it's too late and something bad has happened. Accept that "normal people" can have mental health problems, BUT realize that all mental health problems are not the same. It is a nuanced situation with many different parts but I think in general, a lot of changes need to be made. It needs to not be so difficult to get mental health HELP. It is easy to end up institutionalized on a 72-hour psychiatric hold, after which you are released from the hospital (usually without any meds because they can take you off of them if they want to in the psychiatric ward) into the real world with no guidance at all. You feel even more insane after that.
The answer is compassion and learning and understanding. It is apparently easier said than done when it needs to happen on a larger scale.
A nationally known psychologist, Chris Mohandie, was hired, and he helped JeffCo Schools craft a threat matrix that gauged behavior and classified it for follow up need. Scientifically informed Threat Assessments became standard operating procedure at JeffCo Schools in 2003, when I was the Security Supervisor, there. The lawsuits didn't finish until later, so the responsibility of who legally does what, the separation of duties between school people and police people, was altered then, too.
Dylans mum is a very sweet lady and I hate how she was treated. Sue wrote in her book something like the day Dylan was born she felt like this huge shadow or like a bird of prey come over her and she thought this boy will cause suffering for many...of course as a mother she didn't want to believe that I'm sure and brushed it off..but that gave me chills.
@@lisamccann1081 she has and I think that is commendable. Eric's family dealt with it an entirely different way it appears..just like with their son's past behavior they kind of just left and ignored it..but I'm sure it weighs on them heavily and I do for them as well..I just find it amazing sue wrote all of the victims and their families and has done so much good for so many people. She genuinely seems like a great person
Stop being sympathetic for worthless parents of murdering humans-these Moms need serious help they are in such denial just like you-get a fkn grip the PARENTS ARE RESPONSIBLE and WILL ALWAYS BE-I don’t understand why you snowflakes want to give sympathy to the people that created these monsters Parents are responsible for Everything period until they turn 18 and then they are STILL responsible they gave birth and raised these kids. Kids aren’t born killers they are made by lazy worthless parents. Where were the fathers? Oh their moms wanted to be strong and independent and didn’t need fathers and look what’s STILL GOING ON in our country EVERY ONE of these school shooters were raised WITHOUT FATHERS in the house-again another women in her “feelings” and NOT logic typical American woman 👎🏻
But in her Ted talk she didn’t mention Dylan’s felony arrest, or Eric being caught with a pipe bomb in his bedroom. Surely those were red flags.
Many years ago, I was told of a plan a high school student had to "do a columbine". This person had access to firearms and had put it all down in writing, with illustrations and so forth. When I immediately took my knowledge to the school, I was in a circle of teachers, school counsellors, principal and deputy principal and was openly ridiculed by all, as a fantastical story. About a week later, I was called and told (not apologised to), by the deputy principal and informed that an English teacher had come across these plans in the student's notebook, whilst walking around the class, as the students were doing a task. Action was then taken. Now, my point here, is that I was attempting to stop a massacre and felt bullied for doing the right thing, as well as scoffed at. It is not only students who bully other students, but also teachers at times. They often side with the "popular gangs", who are usually the most unkind to others, possibly to make their lives easier, but uts wrong.
Even when first hand knowledge was presented to them, they chose to ignore it and shoot the messenger, so to speak. There is an awful undercurrent here of not wanting to know the truth and ignoring huge red flags.
When cases like these and many, many other criminal acts occur, it infuriates me that all these people come out, after the fact and give important information or knowledge of people's mental states, plans, thoughts and other actions, leading up to the crimes. I will never understand why people don't speak out and follow through, before these horrific acts are perpetrated. They don't want to get involved and it is weak and negligent in my opinion anyway, yet it happens time and time again.
New to this channel and just reading through the comments. I felt compelled to respond to this one because I agree with what you said on every count. I'm saddened that you were treated that way when expressing valid concerns. It is not a surprise to me though. Throughout my life I have stood up and spoken about what I thought was important.
I have found that if you display an inclination to take a different view or suggest a different course of action you will mostly be side-lined and ridiculed. I feel it's the herd mentality. Those in charge will not want to recognise your observations and prefer to ignore the huge red flags as you say. They often display behaviour that is dismissive and derogatory in nature. Why this is I do not know. Anyone who may, even in part agree with you will then fall silent. Lacking the confidence to speak up is a common issue in all professions and walks of life and it often has disastrous results.
I heard a quote a while back 10% of people will try to do the right thing, 10% will always do the wrong thing. The other 80% can be persuaded either way. Sadly the easiest answer for most , in the short term at least is to do nothing.
You do not have to act with malice to do great harm, to do nothing is the same.
Anyhow I just wanted to express that I recognised what you said and the importance of it.
@@Byzmax Thankyou so much for your thoughtful and beautifully expressed reply. Interestingly, you are the only person who has ever responded to what I thought was an important experience to share regarding how these glaring red flags and intimate knowledge can be ignored. We know this ignorance or fear of being ridiculed can stop, as you say, 80% of people from speaking up to possibly derail a tragedy in the making. Though I have made many mistakes in my life, this is one incident I can look back on and feel I did the right thing and stopped children from likely being killed. For this reason (even though I completely understand your reticence to speak up these days), I would encourage you to summon your good heart and with bravery, alert people to imminent dangers when you notice red flags. Keep on being who you are and don't join the herd who look the other way. You never know when the stars will align and those in authority actually listen to you, or better still, come upon evidence to back up your concerns. Thanks again and all the very best to one of the 10% who do good. Like it or not, you're one of them. Take care 🌹
@@brigittebowman9113 Thank you for that response. I felt it was important to acknowledge your experience as reading your comment gave me some comfort that I was not alone in this exasperation.
I have never felt any reticence to speak up and will of course continue to poke my head above the parapet regardless of the consequences for doing so. Sometimes it does illicit a response that made it worthwhile. Even if it does not it it's still the right thing to do.
Thanks again for posting the original comment and subsequent reply. They are important for me and in due course they may be to others.
@@Byzmax That is my hope too and happy to hear you'll continue to fight the good fight for the best interests of all. It is worthwhile, as you say. Every happiness to you and yours. Brigitte.
I feel kind of bad for that deputy. He probably lives with that guilt every day.
Sue Klebold lives with guilt every day.
I've been a peace officer, armed and unarmed both. Anything that happens in your jurisdiction on your shift that you did not detect or prevent can weigh on you. The lawsuits that ensued after these murders resulted in a separation of powers - the school focuses on safety and unarmed security, the sheriffs and cops on murderers. Cops being all things to all people results in them needing an unrealistic capability set.
Police training changed after this incident. Instead of waiting for SWAT Teams to arrive, groups of 5 or more officers are trained to enter the school immediately to defeat the threat.
@@josephlopez6165 I agree, they're human too and confronting a school shooter is something no one would have expected, especially back then. What happened is awful but I really don't think he needed to be punished on top of it.
@@lunariian The mass conception of political issues often gets in the way of justice. Identity Politics and the Dunning Kruger Effect makes us go down wrong mental pathways, which directly effects use of force and discipline decisions, ignoring things that 20/20 hindsight would preclude. But...our limbic system does a shortcut, and we react as trained. The CIA had figured out that torture is ineffective since Vietnam, yet revenge motivated decisions led to an inability to prosecute terrorism perpetrators or gain intelligence on the bigger fish who finance them. On big and small scales, a scientifically informed decision making process would behoove us in times of extreme stress.
The trauma history might not be documented or even in the home.. being bullied is traumatic. I’m not defending murder I’m just saying “no trauma history” doesn’t sound right to me
I think he was just referring to household/family trauma
Eric and dylan were the bullies. They werent loners. Dylan took a girl to prom
strangebrew420 if that’s the case, what was the motive? Doesn’t make sense
@@strangebrew1231 i think movies tend to really give us the false impression that we all fit into a category. Sure the ideal "loser" can't get a girl to go to prom with him, and that's who you imagine would be the "bullied" kid. But sometimes its not quite like that. I knew a kid in HS who had a gf and who was still among the group of kids that would get targeted for harrassment by the "bullies". And some of those bullies were kids that actually were mad incel in retrospect. Like no girls, no real friends etc. But they were bigger and more physically developed assholes.
@@strangebrew1231 you still believe that? dude they were bullied- people have admitted to bullying them.
I understand these two very well. They gave each other emotional validation that was missing in their families. Neither of my parents was interested in learning something new together with me. They were always too busy for that. So they gave me things to keep me busy instead of their time. If I wanted to spend time with them I had to be interested in what they were already interested in. And if I was a better at that thing then they shunned me for it. So I never felt like I fit in or could be the best at anything and it was very hard to create fulfilling relationships and that caused deep depression and alternating rage in me. My solution was to move away as soon as I could to a place where I found like minded people who became my emotional family. That's where I started to understand my issues and begin to deal with them. But I understand the rage that leads to violence and its not surprising to me that kids shoot up schools or that adults shoot up work places to "get even". Because schools are supposed to be able to help you deal with these very issues and yet they fail again and again. And adult workplaces are supposed to be where you self-actualize and grow. But when you can't do that because someone is holding you back or the system works so poorly it becomes abusive then some people will self actualize through violence. In that sense it's a rational response. Take from it what you will.
Too many parents are just like yours and it's a major issue. It's honestly the parents job to catch these things, not the school. Teachers are simply there to teach. Parents are supposed to raise their own children. I'm so sorry your parents sucked. Every kid deserves the love and time of their parents.
I don’t understand why they’d kill anyone. I’ve been bullied, and abused but I’ve never once thought of killing. Then again my family isn’t the most loving.
@@nman551probably because they believed it was the only way to stop their pain.
I'm so glad I found this channel. Your analysis of each topic is so in depth but very easy to follow.
Ask A Mortician has a FABULOUS documentary entitled "Why Do We Get Columbine So Wrong" that I cannot suggest enough. As someone only barely older than these kids (I was an undergrad) I was very caught up in the story, and Caitlyn does an amazing job of really going deeply into the history, and why we have lauded these anti-heroes in some areas of our culture.
I've seen it and I completely agree. Her coverage inspired me to read the book Columbine.
Caitlin is brilliant. Love her.
It’s really good.
She did at great job and (as always) have no room for the sensationalism, that tends to dominate cases like this one.
I agree, that was a thought provoking video .. she always makes great content
Daniel Conner Mauser, 6/25/83--4/20/99, was one of the 13 victims.
Conner is Linda's maiden name.
Linda is his mom & my friend.
Daniel's father has just broken my heart many times. Everytime he speaks, he wears Daniel's sneakers. I can't imagine the absolute hell Daniel's mother and father are STILL going through.
I’m sorry for the deep sorrow that your friend has to carry.
I am so very sorry...I am so sorry.
I could never fathom the pain and sorrow in losing a child to homicide. My sincere condolences. Sorry so sorry
I know Tom Mauser. He is as fine as any person I have met, I talk to him on FB. His son def never bullied anybody. He was a nice kid.
cannot believe how easily people slip through the cracks . Mental health is so important it’s devastating it got to this point, this was really the event that lead to a chain reaction over the years, so many people saw this as the blue print , soo so sad
You broke it down professionally and with candor.
Thanks for your insights
Dylan klebold was reachable with the right help. He was just depressed and you put him with Eric Harris and there you go
Eric was reachable too. He was given Luvox which increases erratic thinking and was arrested which fueled his Darwinist ideology. If he had stolen and gotten away those electronics, he wouldn't have such a resentment to the government and society. He was actively helped by his parents by seeing a therapist unlike the Klebolds. Dylan honestly I don't know. He killed a disabled hispanic boy and also a black boy that he called a n***** while Eric seemed to kill only groups of people that had wronged him. Eric also cried on the tapes showing remorse for what he was going to do. On the surface Eric seemed to be the bad guy but it isn't as clear cut.
@Ben Menzies Yea but also keep in mind they could have easily done it on the 19th but they chose 20th because KMFDM's new album was coming out then called Adios. I do think they hated the government but they didn't look up to McVeigh in that sense.
it was actually dylans idea to do it. but yeah if eric wasnt there the chance him doing it would’ve been a lot smaller not zero tho
*Almost everyone is **_"reachable"_** with the right help. Not everyone. Almost everyone.*
@@vault1230 Dylan also cried after Eric killed himself, before shooting himself shortly after according to a witness in the library.
I remember the media craze around this. Every thing from music video games, even medications were being blamed for making the kids kill.
me too lmao they were blaming marlyn manson as if it was his fault somehow.
Yes! I was in 4th grade at the time and since Y2K was coming up, people thought this was a precursor to the world coming to an end. Here we are 20 years and at least a dozen school shootings later...
Herostratus has the exact same motives when he burned down the temple of Apollo.
same. I was in 3rd grade came home from school one day & saw it everywhere.i have a vivid picture of kids trying to get out by going through a 2nd story window & cops everywhere. I had no idea how serious this was. looking back as an adult who can fully comprehend what happened I'm just in shock that really happened
Humans will blame anything but themselves.
I’m allowed to listen to music or videos while at work, and I’m so thankful I found this account bc I’ve been binging these videos all morning. Your voice is so soothing
Ty Dr. Grande for the research of such a deeply sad situation.
"Silhouettes don't typically shoot back. And if they do, its probably time to find another range. " Love the dry humor drop!
I was waiting for it! I wasn’t disappointed.
That was a good one lol
I agree about the denial of the teachers. They saw the signs, but chose to ignore them. Then when hell breaks loose, it's all matter of media's fault and not their own for ignoring the bullying. They were failed by every adult in their lives because they couldn't be bothered.
I have to agree too
Exactly. They ignored the signs and also had the snooty mindset that "ohh that wont happen to us here, we are an upper/upper middle class neighborhood" its that type of thinkin that will alllllllways get you in trouble and cause the incident to HAPPEN TO YOU
Public Schools are trash.
There's many recorded incidence of Eric specifically being very mean to other students, vandalizing others property. Not to mention his journal where he says nothing of being bullied but says a lot of mean, racist, and violent things about other kids.
The bullied narrative is false and fabricated by the media. Read any well researched book about the event.
Having talked with school counselors and such they really do wish you’d just color a coloring sheet and then cheer up or something. Some of them seem tired and clueless while others seem purposely to ignore and brush things off.
As someone who has been researching columbine for the longest time I really like your take on Dylan And Eric's Mental health and on the whole situation. I'm also pretty sure that that student who Eric told to leave was Brooks Brown.
You do know more than two shooters were involved in the massacre right? Read the Columbine 11k Reports!
Casually watching RUclips videos isn’t research lmao
@@themostdiabolicalhater5986it is now
really great breakdown, helps a lot hearing a professional speak about real cases like this helps me gain insight into how psychologists operate, thank you
When Dr. Grande says “informed opinion” he isn’t lying. He’s done his research. Every time.
The subject of those two teens is extremely extremely dark and your take on this is very interesting. Thank you.
Yeah I’m just surprised he didn’t mention anything about them going to bowling class before the massacre began
This was a very well done video. You stayed to objective fact as much as anyone could in the situation. Looking forward to more
Really enjoyed the analysis, but even more so, thank you for sharing your academic sources. Looking forward to reading these
It's strange to hear him say that Eric wanted to leave an impression on the world...he kind of got his wish :/
Wishes do come true.
@@soioioioioioio34 Eric wasn't happy he wanted to die he was a fan of the KKK and Natzi's he talked about how he wanted to kill people not sure why I understand that being unhappy is one thing going Ken Shamrock crazy until the point of no return is another in this case.
A very negative impact. Especially on his family name.
i am constantly impressed by both the subject matter you choose to examine, and the way you frame the examination with cool objectivity...your humor and compassion make for entertaining content without negating the science. you maintain an admirable balance, doctor...and your rapid channel growth speaks volumes. well done.
Couldn’t agree more!
amy joy - So well put!👌🏼
@@rejaneoliveira5019 thank you!
Exactly, @Amy Joy.... even though it’s sometimes dark content, I leave with new insight into the human condition. Your comment, as stated, is en pointe.
c thank you.
By far one of the best analysis on this massacre--there aren't enough positive adjectives to describe your brilliance. Thank you for laying things out as you do. You are hilarious with your humor!
This case has haunted me for years. I never knew they were throwing pipe bombs.
@@marekkelin1181 Because I only ever heard about their guns.
If you want to know more, what the FFM is actually all about. Dr. Grande has a very interesting playlist with 18 videos, explaining the FFM - (big 5) personality traits (OCEAN), with all the 30 facets in relationship with personalities, mental health and more.
Thanks for all the work in making this video, Dr. Grande 😃🇳🇱
Thanks for letting me know! I'm really curious and will watch all of those video. Excellent work Dr. Grande!
Is there a link to that video
scott collins ruclips.net/video/aLx8EASkSeQ/видео.html
Enjoy!
Thank you for pointing this out, can't wait to get to this!!
Teacher says: "...unattractive and a slacker" Maybe the school staff needs an assessment, do you they have a culture of Elitism or controlling?
i mean bare in mind the statement was made after he went on a mass killing
The town was pretty well off, very upper middle class. So there was very much elitism.
@@sponish0 That's something I considered too. I noticed in other school shootings as well they describe the shooter in a way that seems like they were bullying them but you can't tell if that's coloured by knowing their horrific actions or if even before it happened the kid was "an unattractive slacker" to the teacher.
Exactly
I would belittle them too if they just tried to murder me.
This ROCKED our community for years! I was already in my 20's but couldn't believe what had happened. Today over 20 years since my son goes to Columbine, one of the most safe schools in the country!
All the Best!
Look up Glock and Autosear and those nice double MP18 style "nads mags*". Feeling so safe now?
*Don't know what they're actually called but look like the male junk and hold 100rd.
Just curious, what makes it the safest school in your county ?
@@charmee6284 one, there is a community of people who are active in helping people who are troubled. There are things in place to "tell on people" anonymously to let someone know if there is a threat or odd behavior from someone (s). The principal Scott Christy is the MOST amazing human and he cares deeply about every individual in that place from teachers to staff. They have safety police on staff at all times. They have made it a loving caring, zero tolerance policy school and we couldn't be more proud to be a part of the Rebel Family!
You’re videos are remarkable I am learning so much about mental health and personality there is so much to learn I’m amazed you keep me so interested I can’t stop watching I wish I was in one of your classes
Another case suggestion: the inventor Peter Madsen who dismembered a reporter called Kim Wallin in a submarine.
Ooh a haunting one
"We all die in a yellow submarine.. yellow submarine..." I just read a case about a high-ranking gay scientist who killed a stranger man for thrills. Clearly the superego has been culturally diminished in America. There is murder all over the globe.. rarely purely for thrills outside the usa.
@@overimagination2812 and again ..yellow submarine..LOL
@@overimagination2812 Sexual homicide has been practiced all over the globe, probably since mankind's very beginnings.
@@overimagination2812 People thinking that certain types of killers only exist in the USA or only in liberal democracies is what makes it so easy for these killers to operate in countries where they think it is only something that happens elsewhere
This is the best documentary I've ever heard about the topic. All others focus on their specific pet theory what was the single reason. Your balanced analysis really stands out and once more highlights the involvement of narcissistic personality features in this type of attack.
Just FYI: This was NOT a "documentary". It was a 20+ minute video on YT in which Dr. Grande "speculates" about these two perpetrators mental states based on publicly available information he can gather about them. Documentaries are usually 1, 2, 3 or more hour(s) long and are based on extensive research and interviews with people involved in that subject area. The time it takes to research and film a documentary can take anywhere from 6 to 12 to 18 months or longer.
@@thomasluby1754 I was just about to say this its not no documentary it's a Guy given his thoughts and opinions on the whole situation while breaking it down
I read the book that Dylan’s mother wrote a few years ago. It was 💔 . I can’t imagine having to go on with life knowing my child is responsible for murdering all those innocent people, Then feeling guilty for mourning my child. In her book she says while the shooting was going on she prayed that if her son was the shooter that he would kill himself so no one else would be hurt. That sentence broke my heart and I had compassion for her. I pray she will find peace one day. 🥹
Excellent analysis, Dr Grande. It sounds right, from what I've seen and read before about these two young men.
I appreciate you explaining why the police engaged the situation as they did, whether we like it or not. As Paul Harrell once said, “it’s very easy to critique in leisure what others had to do in haste.”
Sure, they were all in haste, waiting around for something to happen.
Did he include a " Shatner-esque " pause when he said that ? What am I saying , Of course he did !
So true. Going to steal this
Jep and then beat goes on
How you doing brother your home
Excellent Paul Harrell quote
Let’s be honest, the Deputy was frozen in fear. Totally human reaction.
I think so too. Even if you had full situational awareness, from the number of combatants to what hardware they were packing, you don't just turn into the Doom Slayer, or even just Fiddy Cent after you rack a round with the intent to shoot a human target. Those boys came there with the purpose to kill, nurtured by homicidal fantasies they had nurtured fir dozens of months, prior. He was just a security guard responding to a threat that was leagues beyond any threat he ever imagined himself confronting on the job. Police training only escalated in the aftermath, though it's a shame so many similar disasters have transpired in the decades that followed.
Wrong! He was a trained cop who was supposed to be able to discharge his weapon when appropriate. That cop was a coward, IMO. Those kids needed him and he let them down by not going in after those two murdering punks, not unlike the cop in Parkland, FLA. We see cops shooting all sorts of people, young and old, some who are armed and some who are not armed almost every day. Why was this different? Corny saying but true that cops are supposed to run toward danger, not away from it. PS If Dr. Grande is correct that police procedure at that time dictated NOT going into the building and waiting for backup and negotiators to arrive, then I take back my criticism of that cop as a "coward". But I remember being so disgusted and frustrated with the way the cops handled everything that day (they a seemed liked cowards) and POed that 1st officer to arrive did not follow those psychopaths into the HS.
If only he could've followed Eric and taken him down, the casualties might've been a lot lower. It's much easier said than done though as we know.
@@thomasluby1754 Thomas maybe he was a coward...people are cowards, no?
Bro but you can’t be a pussy when it’s your job to face shit like this, and that why we need properly trained people in power not regular weak people.
Revisiting this after the tragedy of Uvalde. Horrific that procedure changed after this for more aggressive police reaction in such a situation and we still fell flat. Just horrific.
I like the finer points distinguishing psychopath from sociopath.
I was a child when the columbine shooting happened. We lived in Thornton Colorado, less then an hour from columbine highschool. When I got home from school I saw the videos of the kids crawling out the windows of school on the news. I was scared even though I didn't understand the overall carnage that had happened because I was in 1st grade. I asked my dad the next morning if it was safe to go to school. I always had a fear of school shootings throughout my school years. In high-school I read the book that was made from the diary entrys of Rachel. Such a somber but lovely book. Ill never forget this event. Rip columbine victims.
00
Would you talk about The Virginia Tech massacre with a psychological analysis of the shooter?
That guy from Virginia Tech, omg, people were worried about him😱
Be patient. Dr. Grande will. I’m waiting.
Not much info out there about him. The parents wouldn't speak out.
@@cynthiaallen9225 There's info about him out there! There was a government investigation by a panel of mental health experts. Apparently he had anxiety disorders from a young age.
I remember I read a lot about the Virginia Tech shooter.
Excellent commentary, Dr. Grande.
I love the in depth dive on the shoot out between Eric n the officer. There wasn't much info on it. Great job I thought I had heard it all except bout the interaction of Harris n police, what a pleasant surprise thanks Dr.!
John Savage: What are you doing?
Dylan Klebold: Just killing people.
John Savage: Are you going to kill me?
Dylan Klebold: Nah man just get out of here
It seems like they didn’t care who they killed, so I wonder why they let him live.
@@alistairwright3464 John Savage was a friend to Dylan. That’s why he let him live. Cuz he was nice to him.
Yes I know, but they were targeting all of them
@@alistairwright3464 well yeah
they knew it was the end and acted in desperation to target anybody
@@267cal no they planned to bomb it not shoot it, they wanted to kill everyone with the bombs.
He didn't say exactly "I like you" to Brooks, Eric said "I like you NOW, Brooks", they have had a falling out in a prior year because Eric damaged Brooks' car with a snowball and was generally treating Brooks Brown in a mean way, up to the point where he'd write death threats on the internet about Brooks Brown. So when Eric tells Brooks "I like you now" - this means he forgives Brooks for not being thrilled with how Eric treated him during the prior year or two.
@M R exactly. he PARDONED Brooks.
"Brooks, I like you now. Go home."
The only person making that claim is Brooks Brown. We don't know what Eric stated.
They were relentlessly bullied and harassed.
This was a very good assessment, very well done. I think you're the first person I've heard to define them as narcissistic and that seems to be a very accurate assessment on both of them. It would explain why they had a goal to kill hundreds, even knowing they might kill their friends, instead of singling out those that personally wronged them. Narcissists have very little regard for anyone but themselves.
Why has our country been complacent with mass shootings? Despite the ongoing tragedies, the access to mental healthcare has not improved. These shootings can be greatly minimized.
This has been going on since at least the 1800s. Murder is not solvable, like a magic prevention shield. Cain and Abel were the first naturally born men, and...one killed the other. A metaphor for what we did to Neanderthals? Maybe. Or, we have had the problem of murder since humans started using tools? And, schools are where impulsive hormone raging teens live, within the might makes right, youth as God culture?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States_(before_2000)
Even though I am pro gun rights (within reason), I am against automatic weapons, and I find it incomprehensible that parents are not (apparently) required to secure their weapons. It seems common sense that both weapons and vehicles should not be used without adult supervision, as both can cause lifelong damage to innocent parties.
No country can call themself "developed" when so many of its citizens are in prison, and firearm possession is legal.
I so agree. So many issues are related to mental health. Crime, violence, addiction, unemployment, homelessness, etc., etc. I work in providing resource referrals. When someone asks for a referral to mental health services I always feel bad because all we have are sub par services. There is NO good provider of the service. Much of it due to funding.
@@Yolduranduran thank you for sharing. I can only imagine how frustrating that can be.
I was a freshman when this happened one state over, I do sympathize somewhat with them because the culture in that area at that time in schools was hard in its own way. If you were not from a Christian, 2 parent family a jock or smart and pretty, you were a nobody to everyone, including teachers and staff.. they hated that whole school and the culture there.
I went to high school in the early 80s and it was pretty much the same, although I don’t recall any bullying and of course there was no social media back then.
Schools have always likely been brutal, but not any place where murders were committed until 1979, when Brenda Spencer (I Don't Like Mondays) killed 2 and injured 9 in San Diego. I graduated in 72, and grades 6-12 were appalling, but no one even considered murder, just graduating as quickly as possible and leaving their dreary towns.
Graduated in '85. School was brutal. If your parents didn't have money and weren't connected your daily school life was shit. The faculty was as guilty of bullying as the students and as guilty of prejudice too.
This is so sad :(
@@evelynwaugh4053 I heard about that shooting. I feel like it plays a bigger role in the concept of school shootings than we really admit. Seems to have been the first true school shooting as we know it (crazy person just tried to kill anyone they see for no understandable reason). Before that it was basically just some angry kid choosing to specifically shoot one or two other kids who pissed him/her off.
Your knowledge of firearms and law enforcement combat tactics is astounding!
When I did research on this years ago, I remember reading accounts from other students who described Eric as a typical "popular kid", in the sense that he had an aura of charisma around him as well as being a massive bully himself. That he was a troublemaker too, but would play all innocent and that teachers would fall for it every time. It was really only Dylan who was bullied. I wouldn't consider wanting to get revenge because of something like that necessarily indicative of any sort of narcissism at that age. From what I know, particularly in the teenage years almost every child exhibits elements of sociopathy or narcissism as a result of the brain still developing, and it's particularly notable in teenagers likely because of pruning is part of it. That's why therapists are hesitant to give personality disorder diagnoses except in very extreme cases (which Eric likely was).
Idk where you got your information, but Eric was definitely not considered a "popular kid." He was bullied for his slight chest deformity and often lashed out at people who bullied him. If anything, Dylan was more of a bully than Eric was, considering he targeted a student with a learning disability and that student's parents had to report him.
After everything I've read, I came to the exact same conclusion. Eric was known as a gentleman and had lots of friends. He was even crying at one point in the basement tapes talking about how this is going to tear up his family and destroy his parents, saying they were the greatest parents ever and that he's so sorry, how he'll miss his friends from his previous schools and wish he could see them once more. Eric definitely had empathy. In fact, after reading the basement tapes transcript, it looks more like Dylan was the one that really wanted to go through with this.
@@darlingdeb7010 Very true. I think Eric actually wanted to live - if only to do more damage. Dylan was done with his life.