I guess the general sentiment was "I've seen these cards for like 6 months now at the top of contention, get them out of my face." And to be fair, one issue with the format (the number of handtraps needed to make a deck viable) is still around, but in a weaker sentiment. I appreciate the thought you put into this so we don't have to do it ourselves! Great video all around
I 100% agree with you but something you didnt mention is how the SE hits also affect its grind game. With only 3 level 1s to get the Ash search during your opponents turn you have to either not burn through the Oak in your combo or play an additional name. If you want the turn 3 OSS search you HAVE to play an additional name and if you want to go through the oak Turn 1 even 2. Together with the weaker endboard that means it actually becomes a viable strategy to try to break the board and beat them in the grind game.
@KindofLethal true. Lose 2 ash, 2 pop but you can sub in an oak and birch and 2 more non engine. The deck will still do the same thing just different end board.
This, while I agree with his overall statements and that people are overreacting, I feel like in the 'over 50% of hands lose to one handtrap' argument, he completly missed that snake-eye starters with fiendsmith extenders can play through a handtrap
@@ainevekI think the easiest way to do this would be when you’re calculating the odds of 2 starters to include fiendsmith (which he obviously didn’t) because while it’s not a starter, it does count if you’re opening a starter already so should be included in the odds of opening two (which in a 40 card deck using his numbers still gives a 63% chance of being able to play through 1 handtrap. The biggest impact in my opinion is that nibiru is way stronger against snake eye than it ever has been. And the hit to the grind by losing a poplar in deck almost requires you to play birch and that card is ass
Really good stuff. With Azamina, I think the fear is that Azamina + High Caesar is very similar to Disirae + Apollo when it comes to end board quality. But either way this video assuages a lot of my concerns.
The other thing is that when you reduce the amount of cards you play to increase consistency, you also increase the chance that you open popular, which makes your board worse and makes it harder to play through handtraps
After hearing so many people claiming Snake-Eye is still the best deck by a landslide, it's nice to hear someone who agrees with me in that the hits did matter to Snake-Eye. I'm also curious about your thoughts on the best Snake-Eye variant until Azamina comes out. I'm thinking that it's Snake-Eye Fire King because of the powerful endboard it can put up.
One thing you didn’t mention with the azamina cards is that the combo with witch/wanted + a dead monster gets you to moon on field + ash in hand + Omni negate. Witch summon set deception, deception tribute a monster in hand grab sacred, sacred summon spell search grab oss, link witch and fusion for moon, sacred put back fusion add to hand activate sacred send oss summon Omni, oss place witch on bottom search ash. Notably this does create more weaknesses for the deck, droll becomes a lot better and the extra deck becomes even tighter for example, but it’s not a one or the other option, the linear combo achieves both. Overall thinking about the list more I do agree with you that snake eye will not be tier 1, however I will remain disappointed in this list. Lacrima got banned not because it’s good (if it was just good it would’ve been banned on a later list) but because Konami’s awful time rules make effect damage go from interesting pressuring tools to win conditions, snake eye got weaker but not in a way that makes the deck any more interesting to play against imo, and the general sour taste left of a banlist that only serves lip service to snake eye being absurdly powerful but not allowed to be acknowledged because Rage of the Abyss needs to be sold
Ya this is a cool line. The deck is definitely a lot better post ROTA than it is now. I just think the power level of the deck right now is so low that even with this big increase it will still be beatable.
I agree with a lot of this. Do you think that in the future there will be a "pile" deck aimed towards the sinful spoils and snake eyes? Seems to be the direction its headed
I'm generally inclined to think no. Snake-eye was really good for the massive amount of tech cards it could play. Playing piles with this engine (at least the full snake-eye package) is taking away from its strength while gaining a low amount of power imo.
100% agree that everyone has been overreacting about snake eyes not being hit but i think there's one thing that's not quite right. Fiendsmith is not a combo starter any more but it does work as an extender with any fire starter (ash/pop/bonfire/OSS) to recover with sequence + starter into princess so the deck still has many lines to play through 1 HT.
I love the metric-based explanation; very objective compared to many meta-analysis videos. That said, I disagree with some of your calculations and conclusions. I would love to digress and consider some of your views.
What I am getting from this video (great analysis btw) is that apo and beatrice are the most important hits but people do not treat them as such. Consistency hits matter when you include handtraps in the discussion. Obviously pure SK and Fire SK are way more fragile now. Azamina though works as a starter+ an omni at the same time. We will see how well it is in October.
yea but with Azamina, the continuous spell lose to ogre and get really heavy punish by droll, I was analyzing the deck with my teammates and we saw that the deck itself, besides all of the bricks it must play now and post ROTA, plays really bad against certain hand traps. All people are complaining about the deck doing the same board but in this case I can call out every deck in yu gi oh if is not interrupted gets you a full board. If can see only the end board in a deck ignoring stuff like consistency, follow up and interaction, pendulums and centurion should be t 0. I think the deck will stay a t 1,5 like tear in the past and get the last hit maybe in the future banlist.
YESSS finally, i completely agree 100% regarding the analysis, however i do believe the azamina cards will make it teir 1 again, however, far from teir 0, which is fine cause the boards they make are more fair than post list. Right after the banlist dropped my friend and i sat on discord discussing the list and its implications and came to the same conclusions you did. The fiendSmith cards simply equal a link 2, des irae, or ceaser. No longer a bridge, 1 poplar makes the redundancy consistency cards like bonfire, wanted and witch more likely to actually be bricks rather than extenders (opening multiple copies, or drawing the ash and/or poplar with a bonfire etc). Average W Santoli take
This is essentially the same powers the deck is on MD its still super broken no appo definitely hurts a lot soon theyll get another omni to play through nib again though I do believe this hurt snake eyes, imo still probably the best deck just not by as much
Excellent video. I know this is off topic but do you believe the Nadir package should be played in Voiceless now that Branded Fusion sadly got hit to 1? Or do you still play 1 Branded Fusion and the Albaz?
I've been playing pure and testing extravagance. I think nadir servant is reasonable but I tend not to include it. I've been siding ultimate slayers which have felt great.
im excited for the centurion list. post rota i really think cent will be a deck to look out for. I think its gonna compete with ritual beast for 2nd best shifter deck behind tenpai. ppl have had shiny new toy syndrome with white woods since it came out but ive believed this entire time that pure centurion was just a better deck
or maybe a deck thats about half white woods and half centurion may be the best, cause white woods does have its benefits, But like comparing pure centurion to white wood toys, or white wood fiendsmith, or blah blah cent is just better
First, I appreciate the hard work you put into expressing your opinion on the matter. Second, I think what Konami was going for was allowing players to innovate on Snake-Eye Fiendsmith/Snake-Eye Kashtira in order to make SE competitive again. Whether that is by playing the Fire King version or by playing the Azamina cards. Konami didn't want to kill the deck but rather shake things up. I think you have judged the banlist's impact on SE based on how people were playing it before and are trying to mimic that style of SE post banlist. The reality is we don't know if SE will again be tier 1-0. It may very well be since all the other decks lost Appo and Beatrice. Maybe SE becomes the best gong 2nd Nibiru abuser for example. I'm not saying that's true that's just a mock example. SE-Fire King is nuts btw. Super powerful and floaty deck.
I think this banlist hit snake-eyes to a reasonable power level. The banlist in april just needed to do a lot more so people weren't as frustrated as they are now.
Memento seems really good. Most OCG decks weren't playing Fiendsmith with momento for whatever reason so I aspect it to have a fair bit of success still.
I think post RoTA it will be T1, if not the best deck, so the title is a bit click-baity. However, the gap has been reduced EXTREMELY significantly to fall in line with the rest of the T1 decks.
@@Avermra the whole point of his video was that, even post RoTA he believes that is not going to be tier 1. How is that click baity if he really mean it?
If snake-eye is getting around 15% of premier tops post-ROTA I guess I technically am wrong, but the idea will still be along the right lines. If they are getting 30% of tops then I missed the mark.
I just want to say that even though I do like the Snake-Eye cards and lore, Konami needs to understand that artificially creating such a tight format with very little room for experimentation (like the one we're in) isn't good for business. Like, people want to be able to take their rogue decks to events and have the chance to potentially win with them. This situation would probably be less aggrevating if we had more alternative formats aside from Advanced, but that just isn't the case at the moment. Obviously Edison is picking up a lot of steam, but my biggest issue with time wizard formats is that you can't play your favorite modern pet decks. Its just frustrating to me as someone who came into Yugioh from MTG because that game has a whole slew of alternative formats, with a lot of them being more casual oriented. Yugioh doesn't really have a good "casual format" that supports the modern card pool, and Heart of the Underdog is basically a band-aid fix for a much larger, systemic issue in this game. Like, this situation is so bad that i've spent over a year now working on and off on a 3+ player homebrew format. If this game doesn't start providing more means for people to enjoy playing their favorite decks (among other issues like fixing the price of cards), this game is going to continue bleeding players.
I think this is where rush duels can shine. My understanding its a much more new player friendly format, less complex and more casual in comparison to the master rule format. My guess is sooner or later we’ll see rush duels make their way to us because of the issues you highlighted. Konami teased rush duels possibly coming at this year’s San Diego comic con, that and I think speed duel not getting anymore product. They tested the waters first on Duel Links, it only makes sense to me that the next step is to port over the physical card game.
@@samanderson1188 Rush isn't an alt format. It's an alt game. Stop bringing it up when people are asking for the equivalent of Magic's Standard format.
Modern Yugioh is basically dead to me right now. I used to love tinkering with and tuning up rogue decks to be as competitive as possible and this year has taken away most of the old reliables I'd go back to consistently (Warriors, Mathmech, Dinos) while also banning out so much of the generic pool that it's no longer worth trying to make a deck without prescribed bosses work. Most of the hits were done because players don't know what they want and gave Konami the greenlight to hit generics instead of addressing the formerly $1000 reason those generics were seeing play. Snake-Eyes is the Halq of archetypes.
@@geek593 it’s still yugioh at the end of the day, not an entirely new game. Some things are shared. And I hate to break it to you even if there was an alt format konami would end up messing it up. That’s why Rush Duels are the closest thing to an alt format that can become viable and/or enjoyable. No point in hoping for something less likely, but instead focus on what is.
@@samanderson1188 It's not the same game at all. It has a different card back and rule set. It's the same brand, not the same game. I get that you're shilling a product that doesn't even exist in our region but it's not what people who want an alt format want.
I kind of wish they had gone all the way and banned something to kill the deck outright instead of hitting consistency with massive endboard collateral that harms more decks than it saves. Apollousa shouldn't have ever been in the running for a ban.
I was extremely pessimistic initially but I've been coming around to this banlist yeah Even with Azamina, Deception has a pretty high and specific cost compared to the other starters and the Rhea Silvera Omni isn't quite as insane when it's not protecting something like Apo.
I just watched it and i disagree but i guess since im not the accomplished player who has any success, my opinion naturally means shit. But only time will really tell.
@@Furnabulax1 It's a power upgrade for sure, but it's not a massive jump. Right now I think snake-eyes is quite mid; post-rage I think it's good just not outstanding. The azamina cards are not going to reinvent the deck and snake-eyes is not the only deck that will use them.
While I do agree, it is disheartening to me that in 1 months we'll be getting the Azaminah cards and we'll still have a hundred years of Snake Eyes. Yes, banlists are not supposed to hit future product. Yes, it is still disheartening for me as a player.
Please, this is Santoli. He's a Vanquish Soul enjoyer. And he's got the credentials that you can at least hear him out. He's making good points about how much more vulnerable Snake-Eye's setup is now. Time will tell how this effects SE's tiering.
It's still T1, its been T1 in OCG with the consistency bans in place already. Even though their endboards lost Beatrice and Apollousa so did every other deck.
OCG having 3 Poplar, Beatrice, and Lacrima are huge. FS converting into SE engine is one of the biggest reason this deck was able to play through 2 HTs without the assistance of non-engines instead of just ending on SP pass. Multiple Poplars allows subsequent SEAsh and Oak summons to provide more bodies and follow-up. I do think the deck is going to be T1, if not the best deck, post ROTA, but there are a LOT of problems with the deck that may or may not be significant for the TCG version that OCG representation is not necessarily accurate in this scenario.
Also remeber they do have Maxx c at 6 the game is going to be played differently and with Maxx c at 6 they can afford to play less consistent decks that are powerful like snake eyes after multiple hits because they can stop the opponent from playing with 1 discard
just saying it really puts tier 1 into perspective 18 starters 18 STARTERS most decks get 8? if they are really lucky they will have stuff like bonefire and get 12ish but tier 1 in yugioh is now 18 starters.
The thing is that either snake eyes have the starter that does everything or it doesnt do anything. There are not combination of cards that do something, and among like 10 person already before there was always that random guy always drawing flamberg and oak together in 45 and no starters (me). So, having 18 starters here means that you have 18 ways to play the game or pass, it's very different from the past or other decks conception Having "only" 12 starters here is a huge downside. It's not mathmech where you had 12 circular but you could also start with diameter + something else for example
@@ak47dragunov they are starter and extenders but they functional in the same way passing to the same cards. You dont have combination of cards that do act as starter, you have bonfire, does it resolves? Cool. Doesnt? You have witch. Its not that you have ways to start. Either you do and you do everything or not
With the recent ban list, Fiendsmith relys even more on High King Caesar and i think it's time to side deck XYZ Encore again in order to shuffle that card right back.
@@Petsinwinter2 you never want the searcher to be more than actual card especially for normal summons, that’s why it’s original is a much better an less brickyard starter than bonfire
@@Petsinwinter2 I’ve been testing for hours and bonfire is just not worth it ive decided to play consistency packages instead and it’s been much better
One of the biggest things that bugs me on how people reacted to this ban list with the whole "what about after ROTA?" rhetoric is like so what? even IF snake-eye sinful spoils becomes Tier 0 after ROTA, do you want them to just nuke the strategy before the set comes out? Clearly Konami had a plan in 2024 to make Diabellstar and her engines the stars of the year so I never understood why people felt like this banlist was supposed to be this nuclear bomb that nuked the meta when there's clearly support coming in the future. The next core set that doesn't reveal a sinful spoil card or adjacent theme, that's most likely when we'll see the big hits people have been wanting. I think this list addressed the issues just fine where Snake Eye is playable but other decks will be able to play into the matchup way better.
Konami should respond to a community that clearly doesn't give a shit about their desire for Tier Zero snake eyes that is being proven out in record low event attendence. If Konami really wants to continue to make this one of the most boring formats ever they are of course free to do so but then they should be okay if there is a subsequent damage to their brand in the long term.
If each set has around 3-4 new archetypes and in a year we get around 16 or so archetypes, why is only one dominant for almost a year? If you look at the Visas lore cards, you had 4 archetypes and each was it's own thing, sure Mannadium can play Scareclaw but each deck has it's own strategy. Tearlament was dominant for a while, Kashtira was and Scareclaw was more of a underdog and Mannadium was good. Now imagen Tearlament comes out, is the dominant deck and Scareclaw comes next and instead of being it's own thing it works well with Tearlamen. So Tearlament got new support and imagen Kashtira and Mannadium doing the same instead of being it's own thing. This is the current situation with Snake Eyes, this deck dominates for so long and the moment everyone wants to move on, it get's new support and stay for who know how long as one of the best, perhaps the best deck. We have around 8 months of Snake Eyes being the best deck. It's enough and now deck should stay on top for so long because it's kills deck diversity and makes in also less interesting to watch or play games, you get bored.
That is a stupid argument since konami can simply design another "sinful spoil" spell cards that works with other archetypes in the Diabellestar lore like Goblin riders or white woods. That way they could've nuked snake eye, no one would complain about the banlist and diabellestar would remain the star of the year.
@@gnos4249 but they're not making those cards....it's Konami's game they're doing it because they want it to be this way and we get to choose whether we want to play it or not. You can say "they should make X card do [effect 1] instead of [effect 2]" but you're not the one making the cards or dictating the meta. If you don't like it, then don't play the game. The best we can do is take what we're given and assess the best out of it and this banlist was not bad at all, this community just explodes when things don't go exactly how they wanted to but still choose to play the game while crying about it, make it make sense.
@@GrandHarrier exactly, if this game dies because of their decision (its not going to) then it is what it is. They have a vision of what they want the format to be like and we have many more banlists and sets in the horizon that can change our minds.
my goat
Now watch the YTP of you.
I love Raye
Our king
React content on the + channel? Maybe?
Glazing is crazy
Really excited to see your no Calamity Centurion list, I had kinda written the deck off until RotA drops
This is the difference between people who play the game and analyze from experience and those who just theory all day without playing the game.
I guess the general sentiment was "I've seen these cards for like 6 months now at the top of contention, get them out of my face." And to be fair, one issue with the format (the number of handtraps needed to make a deck viable) is still around, but in a weaker sentiment. I appreciate the thought you put into this so we don't have to do it ourselves! Great video all around
Let’s goooo! I was hoping you’d post a video like this. I love hearing your perspective on the format.
I 100% agree with you but something you didnt mention is how the SE hits also affect its grind game. With only 3 level 1s to get the Ash search during your opponents turn you have to either not burn through the Oak in your combo or play an additional name. If you want the turn 3 OSS search you HAVE to play an additional name and if you want to go through the oak Turn 1 even 2. Together with the weaker endboard that means it actually becomes a viable strategy to try to break the board and beat them in the grind game.
Birch isnt a bad additional name. Its an extender no?
Oak isn't limited, it can just be run at 2 or even 3 if grind game is the problem
@KindofLethal true. Lose 2 ash, 2 pop but you can sub in an oak and birch and 2 more non engine. The deck will still do the same thing just different end board.
@@JorgeGarcia-rc4zi having to run multiple oak is worse since it's not a starter on its own
@@KindofLethal This makes you sacrifice more consistency bc you either have to play more than 40, cut down on starters or on defensive cards.
i think theres also important to note that the fiendsmith stuff is not a starter but i would consider it extenders
The Beatrice hit definitely made it so it's no longer a starter, at least.
This, while I agree with his overall statements and that people are overreacting, I feel like in the 'over 50% of hands lose to one handtrap' argument, he completly missed that snake-eye starters with fiendsmith extenders can play through a handtrap
@@ainevekI think the easiest way to do this would be when you’re calculating the odds of 2 starters to include fiendsmith (which he obviously didn’t) because while it’s not a starter, it does count if you’re opening a starter already so should be included in the odds of opening two (which in a 40 card deck using his numbers still gives a 63% chance of being able to play through 1 handtrap.
The biggest impact in my opinion is that nibiru is way stronger against snake eye than it ever has been. And the hit to the grind by losing a poplar in deck almost requires you to play birch and that card is ass
Really good stuff. With Azamina, I think the fear is that Azamina + High Caesar is very similar to Disirae + Apollo when it comes to end board quality. But either way this video assuages a lot of my concerns.
The other thing is that when you reduce the amount of cards you play to increase consistency, you also increase the chance that you open popular, which makes your board worse and makes it harder to play through handtraps
I just realized the rabbit is light. Super Poly might be good here. It also stops the FK endboard that ends on Arvata+Whale.
After hearing so many people claiming Snake-Eye is still the best deck by a landslide, it's nice to hear someone who agrees with me in that the hits did matter to Snake-Eye. I'm also curious about your thoughts on the best Snake-Eye variant until Azamina comes out. I'm thinking that it's Snake-Eye Fire King because of the powerful endboard it can put up.
TALK TO EM
One thing you didn’t mention with the azamina cards is that the combo with witch/wanted + a dead monster gets you to moon on field + ash in hand + Omni negate. Witch summon set deception, deception tribute a monster in hand grab sacred, sacred summon spell search grab oss, link witch and fusion for moon, sacred put back fusion add to hand activate sacred send oss summon Omni, oss place witch on bottom search ash. Notably this does create more weaknesses for the deck, droll becomes a lot better and the extra deck becomes even tighter for example, but it’s not a one or the other option, the linear combo achieves both.
Overall thinking about the list more I do agree with you that snake eye will not be tier 1, however I will remain disappointed in this list. Lacrima got banned not because it’s good (if it was just good it would’ve been banned on a later list) but because Konami’s awful time rules make effect damage go from interesting pressuring tools to win conditions, snake eye got weaker but not in a way that makes the deck any more interesting to play against imo, and the general sour taste left of a banlist that only serves lip service to snake eye being absurdly powerful but not allowed to be acknowledged because Rage of the Abyss needs to be sold
Ya this is a cool line. The deck is definitely a lot better post ROTA than it is now. I just think the power level of the deck right now is so low that even with this big increase it will still be beatable.
Thoughts on Voiceless this format? Would love an updated list from you!
I agree with a lot of this. Do you think that in the future there will be a "pile" deck aimed towards the sinful spoils and snake eyes? Seems to be the direction its headed
I'm generally inclined to think no. Snake-eye was really good for the massive amount of tech cards it could play. Playing piles with this engine (at least the full snake-eye package) is taking away from its strength while gaining a low amount of power imo.
wow, that was a really informative video nice job
We need a rescue videooo!! Never forget that YCS win
100% agree that everyone has been overreacting about snake eyes not being hit but i think there's one thing that's not quite right. Fiendsmith is not a combo starter any more but it does work as an extender with any fire starter (ash/pop/bonfire/OSS) to recover with sequence + starter into princess so the deck still has many lines to play through 1 HT.
I love the metric-based explanation; very objective compared to many meta-analysis videos. That said, I disagree with some of your calculations and conclusions. I would love to digress and consider some of your views.
Everyone I kept talking to being like "No bro Apollusa is a totally fair and reasonable card, how will I beat nib without it" lol
What I am getting from this video (great analysis btw) is that apo and beatrice are the most important hits but people do not treat them as such.
Consistency hits matter when you include handtraps in the discussion.
Obviously pure SK and Fire SK are way more fragile now.
Azamina though works as a starter+ an omni at the same time. We will see how well it is in October.
yea but with Azamina, the continuous spell lose to ogre and get really heavy punish by droll, I was analyzing the deck with my teammates and we saw that the deck itself, besides all of the bricks it must play now and post ROTA, plays really bad against certain hand traps. All people are complaining about the deck doing the same board but in this case I can call out every deck in yu gi oh if is not interrupted gets you a full board. If can see only the end board in a deck ignoring stuff like consistency, follow up and interaction, pendulums and centurion should be t 0. I think the deck will stay a t 1,5 like tear in the past and get the last hit maybe in the future banlist.
YESSS finally, i completely agree 100% regarding the analysis, however i do believe the azamina cards will make it teir 1 again, however, far from teir 0, which is fine cause the boards they make are more fair than post list.
Right after the banlist dropped my friend and i sat on discord discussing the list and its implications and came to the same conclusions you did. The fiendSmith cards simply equal a link 2, des irae, or ceaser. No longer a bridge, 1 poplar makes the redundancy consistency cards like bonfire, wanted and witch more likely to actually be bricks rather than extenders (opening multiple copies, or drawing the ash and/or poplar with a bonfire etc).
Average W Santoli take
Crazy quality video keep it up
This is essentially the same powers the deck is on MD its still super broken no appo definitely hurts a lot soon theyll get another omni to play through nib again though
I do believe this hurt snake eyes, imo still probably the best deck just not by as much
Excellent video. I know this is off topic but do you believe the Nadir package should be played in Voiceless now that Branded Fusion sadly got hit to 1? Or do you still play 1 Branded Fusion and the Albaz?
I've been playing pure and testing extravagance. I think nadir servant is reasonable but I tend not to include it. I've been siding ultimate slayers which have felt great.
@@SantoliYugioh appreciate the response thank you!
@@SantoliYugioh Do you still play 1 Prosperity?
@@michallengowicz6751 Yes
@@SantoliYugioh any chance you can share your list with me?
im excited for the centurion list. post rota i really think cent will be a deck to look out for. I think its gonna compete with ritual beast for 2nd best shifter deck behind tenpai. ppl have had shiny new toy syndrome with white woods since it came out but ive believed this entire time that pure centurion was just a better deck
or maybe a deck thats about half white woods and half centurion may be the best, cause white woods does have its benefits, But like comparing pure centurion to white wood toys, or white wood fiendsmith, or blah blah cent is just better
I play no shifter in centur-ion. I think the bystials just have such great synergy.
Is lightning storm good vs snake eyes now?
Somewhat? It depends on the end board. Something like Raigeki seems safer.
First, I appreciate the hard work you put into expressing your opinion on the matter. Second, I think what Konami was going for was allowing players to innovate on Snake-Eye Fiendsmith/Snake-Eye Kashtira in order to make SE competitive again. Whether that is by playing the Fire King version or by playing the Azamina cards. Konami didn't want to kill the deck but rather shake things up.
I think you have judged the banlist's impact on SE based on how people were playing it before and are trying to mimic that style of SE post banlist.
The reality is we don't know if SE will again be tier 1-0. It may very well be since all the other decks lost Appo and Beatrice. Maybe SE becomes the best gong 2nd Nibiru abuser for example. I'm not saying that's true that's just a mock example.
SE-Fire King is nuts btw. Super powerful and floaty deck.
I think this banlist hit snake-eyes to a reasonable power level. The banlist in april just needed to do a lot more so people weren't as frustrated as they are now.
Hi Santoli what do you think about memento and gimmick puppet going into this format?
Memento is good, puppets are bad
Losing Lacrima and Beatrice really hurts Memento, but it'll probably live, and Puppets still have a 1-card FTK with the field spell.
Memento seems really good. Most OCG decks weren't playing Fiendsmith with momento for whatever reason so I aspect it to have a fair bit of success still.
@@SantoliYugioh OCG wasn't playing Fiendsmith with Memento because they don't have Aerial Eater
While i did have that same kneejerk reaction, still think its Tier 1 because im using the Pojo's definition which could be between 15% and 65%.
I think post RoTA it will be T1, if not the best deck, so the title is a bit click-baity. However, the gap has been reduced EXTREMELY significantly to fall in line with the rest of the T1 decks.
@@Avermra the whole point of his video was that, even post RoTA he believes that is not going to be tier 1. How is that click baity if he really mean it?
If snake-eye is getting around 15% of premier tops post-ROTA I guess I technically am wrong, but the idea will still be along the right lines.
If they are getting 30% of tops then I missed the mark.
imo pure snake is not good anymore but fk , rescue are still really solid
What about Fire King Snake Eye? What’s ur take on this one?
I think it's a good deck but will lean more into fire king cards as opposed to Snake-eye cards. It's a pretty different deck in that aspect.
I just want to say that even though I do like the Snake-Eye cards and lore, Konami needs to understand that artificially creating such a tight format with very little room for experimentation (like the one we're in) isn't good for business. Like, people want to be able to take their rogue decks to events and have the chance to potentially win with them.
This situation would probably be less aggrevating if we had more alternative formats aside from Advanced, but that just isn't the case at the moment. Obviously Edison is picking up a lot of steam, but my biggest issue with time wizard formats is that you can't play your favorite modern pet decks. Its just frustrating to me as someone who came into Yugioh from MTG because that game has a whole slew of alternative formats, with a lot of them being more casual oriented. Yugioh doesn't really have a good "casual format" that supports the modern card pool, and Heart of the Underdog is basically a band-aid fix for a much larger, systemic issue in this game.
Like, this situation is so bad that i've spent over a year now working on and off on a 3+ player homebrew format. If this game doesn't start providing more means for people to enjoy playing their favorite decks (among other issues like fixing the price of cards), this game is going to continue bleeding players.
I think this is where rush duels can shine. My understanding its a much more new player friendly format, less complex and more casual in comparison to the master rule format. My guess is sooner or later we’ll see rush duels make their way to us because of the issues you highlighted. Konami teased rush duels possibly coming at this year’s San Diego comic con, that and I think speed duel not getting anymore product. They tested the waters first on Duel Links, it only makes sense to me that the next step is to port over the physical card game.
@@samanderson1188 Rush isn't an alt format. It's an alt game. Stop bringing it up when people are asking for the equivalent of Magic's Standard format.
Modern Yugioh is basically dead to me right now. I used to love tinkering with and tuning up rogue decks to be as competitive as possible and this year has taken away most of the old reliables I'd go back to consistently (Warriors, Mathmech, Dinos) while also banning out so much of the generic pool that it's no longer worth trying to make a deck without prescribed bosses work. Most of the hits were done because players don't know what they want and gave Konami the greenlight to hit generics instead of addressing the formerly $1000 reason those generics were seeing play. Snake-Eyes is the Halq of archetypes.
@@geek593 it’s still yugioh at the end of the day, not an entirely new game. Some things are shared. And I hate to break it to you even if there was an alt format konami would end up messing it up. That’s why Rush Duels are the closest thing to an alt format that can become viable and/or enjoyable. No point in hoping for something less likely, but instead focus on what is.
@@samanderson1188 It's not the same game at all. It has a different card back and rule set. It's the same brand, not the same game. I get that you're shilling a product that doesn't even exist in our region but it's not what people who want an alt format want.
I kind of wish they had gone all the way and banned something to kill the deck outright instead of hitting consistency with massive endboard collateral that harms more decks than it saves. Apollousa shouldn't have ever been in the running for a ban.
we need to see you and joshua schmidt theory craft or duel
Best Player Ever
goated
Not much done to the power cause flameberge is still here and SE is getting a new card that will boost them so
I was extremely pessimistic initially but I've been coming around to this banlist yeah
Even with Azamina, Deception has a pretty high and specific cost compared to the other starters and the Rhea Silvera Omni isn't quite as insane when it's not protecting something like Apo.
What about post Rage of the Abyss when they get the Azamina engine?
Didnt u see the whole video
I just watched it and i disagree but i guess since im not the accomplished player who has any success, my opinion naturally means shit. But only time will really tell.
@@Furnabulax1 hes right thoug
@@Furnabulax1 It's a power upgrade for sure, but it's not a massive jump. Right now I think snake-eyes is quite mid; post-rage I think it's good just not outstanding. The azamina cards are not going to reinvent the deck and snake-eyes is not the only deck that will use them.
Finally someone talking the truth
While I do agree, it is disheartening to me that in 1 months we'll be getting the Azaminah cards and we'll still have a hundred years of Snake Eyes.
Yes, banlists are not supposed to hit future product. Yes, it is still disheartening for me as a player.
There's no way you uploaded at 1 am est
excellent analysis ! made me reconsider ! what are your opinions on tenpai and yubel ?
I'll make a tier list video in a bit but both decks are for sure tier 1. Nothing tier 0 though...the format should end up being a fair bit diverse.
@@SantoliYugioh dying to play exo sisters my guy! do you think the seventh tachyon can compensate the loss of prosperity partially at least …
@@SantoliYugiohTenpai better than Se is.... something. I don't see it being better than something like Melodious even
This man is just a rescue ace enjoyer lol snake eyes will be fine
Please, this is Santoli. He's a Vanquish Soul enjoyer. And he's got the credentials that you can at least hear him out.
He's making good points about how much more vulnerable Snake-Eye's setup is now. Time will tell how this effects SE's tiering.
Right as usual 🫡
It's still T1, its been T1 in OCG with the consistency bans in place already. Even though their endboards lost Beatrice and Apollousa so did every other deck.
OCG having 3 Poplar, Beatrice, and Lacrima are huge. FS converting into SE engine is one of the biggest reason this deck was able to play through 2 HTs without the assistance of non-engines instead of just ending on SP pass. Multiple Poplars allows subsequent SEAsh and Oak summons to provide more bodies and follow-up.
I do think the deck is going to be T1, if not the best deck, post ROTA, but there are a LOT of problems with the deck that may or may not be significant for the TCG version that OCG representation is not necessarily accurate in this scenario.
Also remeber they do have Maxx c at 6 the game is going to be played differently and with Maxx c at 6 they can afford to play less consistent decks that are powerful like snake eyes after multiple hits because they can stop the opponent from playing with 1 discard
Can we time stamp this video just incase when your wrong you can make your apology video Steven :)
Incase? You're hopeful
I'll do a reaction if I'm wrong. No apologizes since talking about the game is part of the fun of it. But I'm prepared to eat my words if needed.
he was right
A yugioh player who doesnt just complain about the current format......i think this is a.i. generated
Incredible video!
Love the way you see the game, thanks for the info, agree 100%
Mhm no I don't see it Se (probably Fk) is going to be either the best Deck or 2nd best deck and your R-ace shilling isn't going to change much i fear
Also people looking at ocg forget that consistency hits dont matter there because they have 6 turn skips with a discard in maxx c and clone.
just saying it really puts tier 1 into perspective 18 starters
18 STARTERS
most decks get 8?
if they are really lucky they will have stuff like bonefire and get 12ish but tier 1 in yugioh is now 18 starters.
The thing is that either snake eyes have the starter that does everything or it doesnt do anything. There are not combination of cards that do something, and among like 10 person already before there was always that random guy always drawing flamberg and oak together in 45 and no starters (me).
So, having 18 starters here means that you have 18 ways to play the game or pass, it's very different from the past or other decks conception
Having "only" 12 starters here is a huge downside. It's not mathmech where you had 12 circular but you could also start with diameter + something else for example
tf is the deck with 8 starters. thats like tier 5 kinda deck
@@edoardoporta9607 This is completely untrue. Most of Snake-Eyes one card starters also function as extenders. Witch, Wanted, and Bonfire
@@ak47dragunov they are starter and extenders but they functional in the same way passing to the same cards. You dont have combination of cards that do act as starter, you have bonfire, does it resolves? Cool. Doesnt? You have witch. Its not that you have ways to start. Either you do and you do everything or not
With the recent ban list, Fiendsmith relys even more on High King Caesar and i think it's time to side deck XYZ Encore again in order to shuffle that card right back.
I'm new thanks for this 🤙
Ultimate slayer is a very very good card for any deck that can afford the extra deck space to play it.
100% agree
Great video
Not only did it make poplar a brick but also mad bonfire a brick too
No, Bonfire isn't a brick, but it's now a ton more droll-able
@@Petsinwinter2 you never want the searcher to be more than actual card especially for normal summons, that’s why it’s original is a much better an less brickyard starter than bonfire
@@Petsinwinter2 I’ve been testing for hours and bonfire is just not worth it ive decided to play consistency packages instead and it’s been much better
One of the biggest things that bugs me on how people reacted to this ban list with the whole "what about after ROTA?" rhetoric is like so what? even IF snake-eye sinful spoils becomes Tier 0 after ROTA, do you want them to just nuke the strategy before the set comes out? Clearly Konami had a plan in 2024 to make Diabellstar and her engines the stars of the year so I never understood why people felt like this banlist was supposed to be this nuclear bomb that nuked the meta when there's clearly support coming in the future. The next core set that doesn't reveal a sinful spoil card or adjacent theme, that's most likely when we'll see the big hits people have been wanting. I think this list addressed the issues just fine where Snake Eye is playable but other decks will be able to play into the matchup way better.
Konami should respond to a community that clearly doesn't give a shit about their desire for Tier Zero snake eyes that is being proven out in record low event attendence. If Konami really wants to continue to make this one of the most boring formats ever they are of course free to do so but then they should be okay if there is a subsequent damage to their brand in the long term.
If each set has around 3-4 new archetypes and in a year we get around 16 or so archetypes, why is only one dominant for almost a year? If you look at the Visas lore cards, you had 4 archetypes and each was it's own thing, sure Mannadium can play Scareclaw but each deck has it's own strategy. Tearlament was dominant for a while, Kashtira was and Scareclaw was more of a underdog and Mannadium was good. Now imagen Tearlament comes out, is the dominant deck and Scareclaw comes next and instead of being it's own thing it works well with Tearlamen. So Tearlament got new support and imagen Kashtira and Mannadium doing the same instead of being it's own thing.
This is the current situation with Snake Eyes, this deck dominates for so long and the moment everyone wants to move on, it get's new support and stay for who know how long as one of the best, perhaps the best deck. We have around 8 months of Snake Eyes being the best deck. It's enough and now deck should stay on top for so long because it's kills deck diversity and makes in also less interesting to watch or play games, you get bored.
That is a stupid argument since konami can simply design another "sinful spoil" spell cards that works with other archetypes in the Diabellestar lore like Goblin riders or white woods.
That way they could've nuked snake eye, no one would complain about the banlist and diabellestar would remain the star of the year.
@@gnos4249 but they're not making those cards....it's Konami's game they're doing it because they want it to be this way and we get to choose whether we want to play it or not. You can say "they should make X card do [effect 1] instead of [effect 2]" but you're not the one making the cards or dictating the meta. If you don't like it, then don't play the game. The best we can do is take what we're given and assess the best out of it and this banlist was not bad at all, this community just explodes when things don't go exactly how they wanted to but still choose to play the game while crying about it, make it make sense.
@@GrandHarrier exactly, if this game dies because of their decision (its not going to) then it is what it is. They have a vision of what they want the format to be like and we have many more banlists and sets in the horizon that can change our minds.
Wait until azamina lol