Because when he was young he was made to be ashamed of himself so to hide he gave into pressure and was stupid just as I was. I will never make that mistake again!!
Even though the wife went into this situation knowing that her husband is gay, I pity her. She deserves to be with a man who WANTS her and wants to be with her because he loves every aspect of her.
you do what the church tells you...the thinking has already been done by the brethren in Salt Lake. I was told to just obey! That Church drove self hate into so deep, I am surprised I broke free. The Evangelicals could not cure me, and the Mormon failed as well. Both only taught me to hurt myself very badly in order beat the thoughts away. It never went away! I hate religion because of it!
suvariboy I'm not gay but I think you can love every part of them without wanting to have sex with them. Hell you could even say that people usually love people most when there's no sexual aspect involved.
ANY thing parents teach their children could be considered "indoctrination" -- it is the joy of parents to pass along their faith, beliefs, life style to their children...that is not wrong and ultimately, as we all become adults we can choose for ourselves what we live. I know sports families who push their kids into tons of sports, who may not have been inclined to it...suffering exhaustion during busy seasons, keeping up with practice and school work. This could apply to all religions AND life styles. People who raise their kids vegan. People who raise their kids atheist...the list goes on.
***** Male privilege (sometimes referred to as "the patriarchy") is the concept that cisgender men do not experience widespread discrimination based on the fact that they are men. For example, cis men will not experience discrimination in STEM fields for being male, but women and other non-male persons will often experience such discrimination for their gender. White privilege is the concept that white people do not experience widespread discrimination based on the fact that they are white. For example, white people will not attract undue attention from the police simply based on the color of their skin, while nonwhites are often targeted for heightened scrutiny based solely on their race. The concepts are pretty simple, actually. There's a lot of hemming and hawing about privilege but it's really not that difficult to understand.
***** You just overcomplicated privilege in order to discredit it. Stop reading so much into the word "privilege. Understand that widespread discrimination based *purely on race* _does not happen to white people_. Understand that that widespread discrimination based *purely on gender* _does not happen to cis male persons_. It does _not_, and _has never meant_, that white people or men or any other majority group are automatically handed the world on a silver platter. _I'm a white person_ and guess what? My life has been hard. I'm poor and long-term unemployed. I've been homeless. I've been hungry. I was disowned by my family. I'll very likely never be wealthy or successful in life. None of that happened to me because I'm white. Some of it happens because I'm trans. Some of it happens because I'm poor. I recognize the shit I _don't_ have to deal with because I have light skin, because I know by listening to black trans women just how much worse it could be.
***** Widespread. Did you miss the word "widespread?" There are no monolithic institutions in the world that oppress males based purely on their maleness. None. Not a single one. Now, there _are_ systems that oppress males based on their race, on their religion and on their sexual orientation, but that is an issue best described by the concept of kyriarchy and intersectionality. And as that discrimination is based on something other than gender, it is _also_ felt by non-male persons in the same group.
The dude says that he is physically attracted to his wife. That means that he is not gay, but is bisexual. He is using imprecise language in his effort to prove a point. There is nothing wrong with being bisexual, but because Josh is bisexual he is able to have a fulfilling marriage with his wife. It is impossible for a gay person to do so.
Sexual orientation is defined by a person’s attraction-response mechanisms, not by their behavior or lifestyle. If we defined it based on behavior, what would a celibate or virgin be? In this case he admits he is sexually attracted to men. Therefore by definition he is homosexual, not bisexual.
Selene - all that means is that he's romantically attracted to that one particular woman. She could very well be the only one on earth that he's capable of falling in love with. (I have seen this happen, except it was the woman who is a lesbian and they are both atheist.)
comanchio1976 He is obviously not repulsed by her if so how did he ejaculate and have those 3 kids? I think acting on gay impulses is like any other sin. You may have a desire to overeat or get drunk, but through prayer you can control this desire. Also I believe that God does not send us to Earth alone that he has given us each at least one partner of the opposite sex to have a family with and to love. So gays are incorrectly labeling themselves once they find that soul mate of the opposite sex they will love them and be sexually attracted to them.
***** When the marriage falls apart, the wife and the kids become the collateral damage. I could excuse it if he was simply uninformed about his sexuality but this is not the case. He is aware that he is gay and made a conscious decision to marry a woman anyway. That's willful deceit. He's using her. Being married to a woman allows him self approval, even at her expense.
even if he is gay he can still be romantically and/or aesthetically attracted to women. and even asexual who are not sexually attracted to anyone can have sex and enjoy it if they love their partner very much. this man is with his wife even despite not being sexuality attracted to her, that in a way makes their relationship even stronger, because they are not with each other for each other bodies but because they are best friends and being with each other makes them happy. i think his choices despite his sexuality are completely reasonable, and i think he said some very good things.
psychology tells us that for many people...this arrangement can be a problem.....it does not mean that it WILL be a problem but it can for some very basic reasons, it can lead to emotional and psychological problems....if people have this work out well, they are more of the exception and not the rule....the rule is...being gay is normal and to deny that identity and restrict the physical expression of it traded for something else, can often cause great dysfunction....or so my clinical psychology colleagues say.
Everything that gay people have shown me to proove that being gay is how they were born from youtube to wiki to websites have all shown (to me) that it is indeed a CHOICE. And this guy just goes to show this is indeed the case.
He's a sad but very important example of how much we're capable of destroying our own lives from within. He spent years obsessed about constructing a narrative intricate enough to fool himself with, and then set about acting out those fantasies to perfection. He is living proof of how we're capable of being our own worst enemies, jailors and torturers once we lose control of our emotions and our instinctive reactions to them.
In all honesty I have supported The Young Turks for almost everything but not this. If a gay man is truly in love with a woman then they can marry her and not have that get in the way. True love doesn't operate off sex nor does even marriage; he can be romantically attracted to the woman and truly love her without having sex with her. Sure he may not be sexually attracted to her but there isn't much a difference between that and sex. Not only that but as a gay male I feel very unfortunate for not being able to have biological children, so if he wanted children and loved the woman he was with what is the problem with marrying her? Really! Not only that but if he has sex with his wife and he doesn't like women it really shows that he can make compromises for his wife, especially since he still has a bond with her during it. I support The Young Turks almost fully, but not with this. To me it seems like they were against his decision, or at least felt neutral about it.
Lol... Ok you go have relationships with people you're not attracted to because you love them and can get along fine with them. I on the other hand call these people FRIENDS, and I will NEVER be in a relationship with someone I don't feel sexual attraction to. What makes a husband or wife special and different from everyone else out there is the sexual attraction. This is why marriage is so special, and is something you should strife to only do once. This is why finding the right partner is difficult as fuck! But hey, go ahead and hump some guy you think is ugly, just because he's friendly and likes manga or anime or whatever the fuck your profile pic is.
everyone must suppress their sexual urges or else we'd be animals and not people. we would be sleeping with everyone and anything we found attractive. this guy is no different then anyone in a committed relationship. sticking with your one partner, no matter if they get old or sick or crippled. relationships of marriage are more then that. Anyone married for the long haul understands that. and understands that you are attracted by more then an initial sexual attraction.
Mormons aren't allowed porn or alcohol though. So that leads to even more secrecy and self-deception. Its a neverending cycle that rarely has a happy ending. My guess is that a decade or down the road there will be a divorce.
A lot of women in this world are single and there are a lot of men living alone. I live along and I don´t need sex. I am happy with my life. Who cares about me? so, the most important thing is to be happy.
I think it should be obvious that he is actually bisexual to some degree. I mean I know it's not impossible for some gay guys to have sex with a woman but three kids? ~shrugs~ just sayin
+Rebelaxe Six Sounds like you never met a sailor who had sex with some toothless prostitute. Young men can get it on with a watermelon or anything that walks. Young guys are drowning in testosterone and think about sex every 7 minutes. But the testosterone poisoning phase begins to wane in late 20s and 30s. Then he needs to have genuine attraction to someone to be able to get it up - or a big supply of blue pills.
*MIXED ORIENTATION MARRIAGES* : Falling in love with someone doesn't guarantee sexual attraction nor does it preclude it. Mixed orientation marriages exist for the same reason that interfaith marriages exist and interracial marriages exist and that is because you can’t control who you fall in love with. Sex can be experienced outside of a loving relationship and it can also be the product of a loving relationship. In this case we have to assume that it is the product of a loving relationship so that his admission of being gay has nothing to do with his love and devotion to his wife. New York City’s Mayor Bill DeBlasio is married to an out and proud lesbian so there you have it! Sexuality is not an on/off switch. It is a spectrum. On the Kinsey scale 0 being 100% straight and 6 being 100% gay him and DeBlasio's wife may be a 5.99 with the only straight exception being their spouse. This guy has been forthright in saying that they've built sexual intimacy by developing the bond they have. Isn't that what every couple wants? He never said there wasn't attraction but that attraction to his wife is a more involved experience than other people have. Basically what drives this gay man to be sexually attracted to this woman is that he is deeply in love with her person as a whole. As for his wife every woman would love to marry their gay best friend and if she has even the remotest chance of making this work why would she not give it a chance? To her it's a dream come true, especially since he is out proud, religious and doesn't see a conflict. He sounds like a confident charismatic guy. Why wouldn't she find him attractive?
The error in your logic is that you're assuming women's sexuality and men's sexuality are the same thing. They are not. Women are 4 times more likely to be behaviorally bisexual because women's attraction-response mechanisms are based on romance, seduction, and the other person's personality. Plumbing equipment is not all that important. It's what's between the ears, not the plumbing that turns women on. But men are far more visual. It is very much about body parts and plumbing equipment and that is why men are much less likely to be attracted to both genders.
Doug Dittmer There is no error in my logic,; less likely and more likely do not rule something out completely. You can't say for certain what's in somebody elses head. You are turned on by body parts, especially the sexual ones but he may not be as much. Sexuality is fluid. He may be 2 points away from being A sexual and enjoys her company so much so that it makes him want to have sex with her. You just don't know. So stop trying to label everything and put it in neat little boxes. This just doesn't work in real life.
+Anthony Rizzo Researcher Lisa Diamond has pushed the concept of sexual fluidity but she admits that it exists in women - not men. Male sexuality works very differently than female sexuality. Female arousal is less dependent on physicality or visual triggers.
+Anthony Rizzo It may be caveman thinking in your mind, but it's backed up by research that includes brain imaging during arousal. Gay or straight or bisexual, males are turned on by visual triggers while women are turned on by the story line, the context, romance and seduction - not as much by visuals.
Of course, we know that being gay is a natural, normal, unchosen and unchangeable component of the human condition. We also know that "religious"-based homophobia and oppression has led to a great deal of misinformation and oppression against the gay community, just as it did against the black community, women, and other minority groups. If people have "unwanted" characteristics and despise their own sexual orientation, race, heritage, etc., it's NOT because they are bad or unnatural, it's because mindless man-made bigotry has caused self-loathing among vulnerable individuals. So the answer is to eradicate the anti-gay, anti-black, anti-minority toxicity that has infected the feeble-minded bigots of society, and bring enlightenment, education, and acceptance of diversity to the masses. The only people who delude themselves into hoping that being gay is a "choice" are those indoctrinated into the vast ignorance of their chosen religious lifestyle. Their misinformation about, and condemnation of, the gay community makes them no better than the bigots who segregated the balcks or who put Jews behind barbed wire.
natte Rich "Christians" were not anti-slavery, and Hitler was baptized a Catholic and never formally left the church, even though he felt disdain for religion.
natte Rich that's why they he believed in supernatural spiritual beliefs like the Aryans where chosen by god not the Jews .. They Bible is loaded with versus on how a slave should obey their masters words as if they were from God ,(Ephesians ,Colossians) two reasons why you're an idiot
And what does this has to with anything ? Are you trying to say that only a christian can notice that slavery is a bad thing ? can you really stick your own head that far up your own ass to believe that ?
Of course, we know that being gay is a natural, normal, unchosen and unchangeable component of the human condition You do realize, there is plenty of evidence to the contrary, right?
John Doy I do realize that anti-gay zealots HOPE there is evidence to the contrary, and delude themselves into believing it is so, but in reality, no such evidence exists. Sorry.
what conflicts me is that i don't know if this is truly HIS choice, or if it's the result of internalized homophobia. as a fellow gay person who grew up mormon (and loved the church deeply until i learned more about its history), i could very easily see the latter being the case
It's not unheard of for a person to fall in love with someone who falls outside of what they would normally find sexually attractive. I'm also gay but and have always been attracted to men, but I fell in love with a woman. She's the only woman I've ever been attracted to, and have been since. This can also happen to straight people too, you're normally attracted to the opposite sex but suddenly this one individual comes alone that just blows you off your feet and makes you question everything about yourself. And you can either see it for what it probably is, and isolated incident and move on or you can make a big deal out of it and maybe miss out on a genuine, loving experience. And being open about the situation with that special someone, makes a world of difference too.
Fast forward to 2018 and Josh has both gotten a divorce and left the Mormon church. He’s still involved with his ex-wife and kids on a regular basis, but they decided that they both deserve better relationships.
I'm a lesbian...but growing up in religion has socially conditioned me to hate myself for crushes on them. That's why I can't stand it. People should be able to love who they wish, and whoever wants to stop that is an idiot.
Akemi Moon I know how you feel. I'm pansexual and I'm living in a super religious family that hates and beats me for even be able to be attracted to the same gender as me. They also hate how I'm also Lunagendered as well. I also live in Utah where everyone is like my family and is super religious. I wish religious people were not so full of hate and would learned to love like their book tells them to
+Jamie Lucas Thank you! Love is so much more than just sex and sexual attraction. I would rather want to be with someone I love than someone I am only able to be sexual attracted to. I am sexually attracted to my boyfriend but I know stuff like that fades. I want to be with him because I love him more than anyone could imagine, and before we got together he was my best friend. We have an open relationship to make these kind of things easier, but we have love on a so much deeper level. Sexual attraction doesn't make a relationship, love and respect is what makes a relationship. I wish more people would understand this.
i look at love is more then just feelings, it is a decision and a commitment. my husband and I are having a rough time these days but i believe our commitment and the right type of love is what keeps us together Agape. Storgē Philia. Eros. The Ancient Greeks' 6 Words for Lov Agape is the love I believe you and i have for our partners, Philila (friendship) and Eros (sexual) Best to have all three for a relationship but the sexual attraction may come and go.
Ok, ok. So he chose to have a family and thatfor married a woman. Weird enough, but ok. But if he really is gay there is NO way that he could EVER have a fullfilling sex-live with that woman. He's got to be at least bi, otherwise in my opppinion or he's just lying to himself and fullfills a kind of a "duty" in bed that he feels he is supposed to fullfill.
Glad to hear it. Double check the exact quote. I always recommend making a reasonable attempt to verify any quotes you read, especially online. “The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it's difficult to determine whether or not they are genuine.” -Abraham Lincoln
Jason Storer I'm not religious, but I do know the Ladder Day Saints distenced it's self from polyigamy ( I may not be spelling that properly) in 1908!!!!!!!!
tommy morin Except for all of the fundamentalist denominations within the LDS faith that do still believe in, and practice, 'the principle' (as it's called by its adherents). When you refer to Latter Day Saints distancing themselves from polygamy in 1908, you refer to the denomination, that, since 1838, has called itself the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but which is widely referred to by others, as, 'the Mormon church' (or 'mainstream Mormon church'). Please Note: other LDS denominations have, of course, also left off the practice of polygamy, but each has done so for their own reasons and at various times before and since 1908. Google 'the principle of polygamy', for a start, if you are interested in more information about polygamy and its continued role within the Mormon faith.
Sexual orientation is based on attraction - not behavior. Since he is primarily physically attracted to men, by definition he is homosexual - not bisexual.
I remember reading a book titled Walden Two. It was a novel based on the behavior modification theories of psychologist B. F. Skinner. This man's approach to being himself is reminiscent of what I remember feeling after reading Walden Two
I think this is more sinister than the Turks. This advances the narrative of "choice" with respect to homosexuality, which it is not. He is gay, but he is choosing to repress who he is. This is not a positive example by any means.
I totally get this. I'm a lesbian and if I didn't think I had a chance at being happy with a women, I would marry my male best friend without hesitation. I'd rather be with someone I love (even if I'm not IN love with them) than nobody at all.
He's quite clear saying people should make their own choice, NOT, "Do (or don't do) as I did." He's also quite clear in confirming it is NOT a choice, he is what he is. He's chosen to not *act* on his impulses, which IS a choice, just as many people with good or bad impulses can choose to not act on them. He should be admired for his honesty, convictions, and his acceptance of others to make their own choices.
I m a Mormon from Latin America and I dare say this guy made a good decision: he sided on love, for love sakes, and its bringing more benefits than sadness. Mormonism is a powerful religion and he s putting it to the test,and is coming out sucessful. Contrats to him. Hope in the future your opportunity for reconsidering your gay problem might change, but if the attitude is twards same sex attraction still the same as he cannot yet change it -so he says, he s smart and chose having a wife and children, experiences that do not come with gay life
(continued) The post you quoted mentioned that things people have a strong moral aversion to being more objectionable than things people simply aren't attracted to. Knowledge of the higher rate of birth defects immediately come to mind. Looking at the animal kingdom, both humans and non-humans seem to exhibit various anti-incest mechanisms, hell, incest has been taboo in nearly every human society. Admittedly I'm given pause when people mention same-sex/infertile incest, but... *shrug*
I've been with guys whom I didn't initially find attractive, but after getting to know them and falling for them my entire view of them changes and I love everything about them on the inside and outside.
this man does not deny his sexuality, his wife is aware, and they still LOVE eachother very much, there is no law against marrying your best friend, who are you to judge them in their choice to raise kids together? they never claim this as some sort of cure, this is their choice and it should be respected
Ben has ALWAYS been one of my favorite people on this show, and he CONTINUES to be. Ben is beholden to his idea's, which are based, mostly on common sense In the context of being well informed. he never shy's away from anything even if it seems "offensive" even to the people he is in agreement with. If he feels something that no one else does, he will let everyone know why he thinks they are wrong, and I LOVE THAT because THAT is how we get smarter, because if he is wrong he WILL admit it.
Joining a community can be a choice. Certainly being born into one is hardly a choice, but it's also universal. We're all born into some community, and we all reach a point where we have to decide what is right for us. We all make concessions to our communities. It's what builds kinship and shared background. It's what builds a fabric of a community. This is his choice (and his wife's). He isn't forcing it on anyone. He's telling his story, and we are all richer for it.
sexuality and romance are related in most cases but they are not dependent of each other, it is entirely possible for homosexuals to fall in love with some one of the opposite gender and vice versa, there is also the cases of one being bi romatic or bi curious, I apologise for any grammar mistakes
I remember first reading (with my friend who is a shrink) about Mormon "church" does to their gay kids back in the late 80's. Forced against their will into reparative "therapy" institutions, where they are heavily drugged to be more compliant, draconian torture, electro shock therapy, mind control etc... to change gay behavior. You can see this demonstrated in the great movie "latter days"
Generally the definition of "last" when it comes to marriage is when one partner dies or is effectively removed from the marriage (dementia, coma, etc.).
I'm a straight man, I'm attracted to women. If I was EXPECTED by some religion/social club/etc. to ignore my sexual preference in favor of marrying someone I don't find attractive (a male, in this case), I could not do it. Because my sexual preference IS a part of who I am. "The right way" doesn't mean anything compared to who I am and what I truly feel. Compromise in the name of "god" is foolish and self-imposed bondage. If you deny yourself for "god", you're a fool. No less.
I have a friend who is a lesbian who is married to a man. In her case, she simply fell head over heels in love with a man and found herself sexually attracted to him AFTER she fell in love with him. She finds no other men sexually attractive, period. So it is possible for someone to fall in love with and marry someone of a sex different from the one they are attracted to in general (and no, that doesn't make them bisexual). It's all about truly being deeply in love with a person's soul and not their body. Edited to add that my friend is atheist, as is her husband.
That was a great video! Trying to get past the hosts reading into the video political and self serving motives, I'm looking deeper. Two people can love each other dearly and on some level it can actually be a spiritual joining experience-I believe that is what this man and his wife have had. That does not necessarily mean his sexual orientation has changed. He has made a conscious choice to place his religious convictions above his passions, and with a strong community of support, concern. Love and prayer he is able to live the life he wants to. That doesn't mean those desires have left, but he is in a much better place to not indulge them. I can definitely see his ability as a therapist to reach patients that are not going to be helped by other mental health practitioners. I only know of one other story like this. An extremely religious Jew of the Hassidic branch was also homosexual in orientation from his youngest years. Because of his deep religious beliefs which included submersing himself in the Torah for hours daily, he was able to marry, stay faithful to his wife and have 10 kids. He said the desire to practice homosexuality is always with him, but he is able not to.
Shall we look deeper yet? Your wording: "Because of his deep religious beliefs which included submersing himself in the Torah for hours daily, he was able to marry, stay faithful to his wife and have 10 kids. He said the desire to practice homosexuality is always with him, but he is able not to." "he was able to": here you imply that homosexuality is a thing to be overcame and that achieving heterosexuality while burdened with homosexual urges is an act worthy of accolade. This analysis is not to dispute the sentiments I have derived from your text, but simply to establish that to some extent, the purpose of your statement is to glorify heterosexuality. "Because of his deep religious beliefs": so here you are attributing his overcoming his homosexual urges to religiousness. The Judea-Christian God is a creator and both of these men are worshipers of this god respective of the religious views they self-imply. "He said the desire to practice homosexuality is always with him": by quoting this, you imply an understanding of the lack of deliberation and the permanent condition of homosexuality. Regardless of this quote as a source of evidence, for many years attempts were made to treat homosexuality with all sorts of clinical measures to no avail and research strongly implies it to be a phenomena of birth. "but he is able not to": I revisit this quote, this time including the word "but", the reason being that having said all that I have so far, you confuse me with the conclusion you seem to be arriving to: The Judea-Christian God created these men, any permanent and inherent attribute they posses, is due solely to that God. (Similar to being born male, female or of any racial orientation, these traits are veracious despite deliberation) Their homosexuality are inherent traits that persist in a similar fashion to any other characteristic defined by genetics. This God created them in such a fashion, however, the "moral" thing to do is to stifle that homosexuality. It is to the glory of the same God, their creator, who made them in such a fashion, that they are able to deny those urges that he created them with. -*my breakdown of your comment* This analysis is presumptuous though. It is created with the presumption that you are heterosexual and therefore understand that being homosexual is a rare phenomena entirely exclusive to the heterosexual crowd as "heterosexuality" is not defined by enacting heterosexual urges, but by the sentiment of being attracted to members of the opposite sex and "homosexuality" is defined by the sentiment of attraction to one's own sex. I also presume that you, keeping an understanding of the definitive terms of sexual orientation in mind, also differentiate homosexual urges from what you would call "sin" on the basis of their lack of similarity regarding commonality. Anyone can have a "sinful" urge while only those born with the capacity can have a homosexual urge.
The thing about love is love doesn't equal attraction, and this is the perfect example of this. You can love someone in different ways and different reasons, without being attracted to them. That's what they're proving right here.
now thats an unfair accusation. he may have love her very much he is just not exited sexually. My parents care for each other dearly but they havent had sex in 10 years
that's true :( im sorry... its just what i said wasn't fair but neither is what happens in real life...people DO act on how they think is safest in society but they should do what they really want in the first place before it hurts others and stop worrying about homophobic idiots who don't know what they are talking about.. and sex can actually play a big role in marriage. you need to be able to love your partner physically and be attracted to them no matter what kind of body they have.and no matter how busy you are with work, hobbies, kids, you can always make time to make love with your partner. its true people cant always help it but.... idk... sorry all im thinking is that people should be more honest about their sexuality and practice what they believe before getting married and having children. because it can really tear someone apart. but it depends on how we are i guess x-x. thank you
The last comment, "I'd be really surprised if the Mormon church doesn't pitch this in some way."-that's not a direct quote of course. I haven't seen the mormon leaders discuss this in any way with it's members. Anyone heard anything different?
I wonder if anyone who is bashing this guy ever thought maybe he just found a woman that he loves more then anything so maybe his "urges" or "lust" just aren't important to him? Personally I'm all for gay marriage I have quite a few friends who are gay and personally don't care who they marry or do "stuff" with (well as long as the person isn't a general scum bag who will rob them blind and leave them in debt up to their eye balls that is gotta watch out for your bros!.) but my point is don't bash just enjoy the fact that this man found love that is all that matters! and on a side not I have a few lesbian friend's who have told me right to my face that they love me and that they want to marry me someday (no idea why) just saying maybe love is more important then lust sometimes "love can become lust and love can become lust the two are forever connected and bound." but that also makes me think of another "People are assholes" so fuck it shit happens lol.
You all should watch his story on Mormonstories. Its rather interesting. Something to take into account is he has never actually explored/experimented with a man. His wife was his first and ONLY girlfriend. I get the feeling had he actually explored his sexuality with men, he probably would not have ended up marrying his wife and ended up with a man. We do have to give him some credit, he is way more honest than Alan Chambers from that Exodus foundation.
Also listen to what Josh does in his counseling, and what counselors do in general. They ask what the person being counseled want. What they genuinelyl think will make them happen. What you are asking is to go to scientific studies and say "this is how you have to live otherwise you are rejecting who you are." Counseling goes so far beyond that, it is very individual.
Did you watch the video? They said throughout its entirety that they are more than happy with his choice to marry a woman, because that is his life. The only problem that arose with them is that he is "helping people reconcile their sexual orientation" which means he could be harming people. The only problem is that he could be having a negative effect on other people. They achieved very much their goal in this. I'm gay, and I totally agreed with them.
This makes the striking point in a subtle way, that sexual orientation has little to do with deliberation. There is already research pointing strongly in this direction, but some people choose to be selective in their acceptance of empirical data. I feel that many of those people may look to this as an example of how homosexuality doesn't have to be accepted and may simply relate to this story because this man attributes his refrain from acting out his sexuality, to the same thing that many people use support their belief that homosexuality is "immoral", religion. In doing so, they must also accept that there is no choice in the matter; this story is a strong point from which one could debate religious, anti-homosexual rhetoric.
You're absolutely correct regarding the historical place of xtianity as opposed to other beliefs. Because the Eastern beliefs generally don't recognize a singular deity the way the Abrahamic faiths do, it's inappropriate for me to include them in my diatribe. I designate the Eastern beliefs in the realm of philosophy, not organized religion. But that's my personal interpretation, of course. As I try to integrate the 9 Pillars into my life, I regret my aspersions cast toward those beliefs.
I agree with you, but not everyone can just shut their brains down and act dumb. The more broad your overall knowledge base is, especially on the truth of what is really going on behind the scenes, the more hopeless things can seem. Not to say that everything is hopeless. There are so many amazing things happening every single day, and I feel very lucky to be alive. The main problem I have is knowing that a small group of people can cause so much pain and suffering for billions of people.
I think the point they were making on TYT is that the video sort of encourages the idea that if you are gay, you can suppress your sexual desires and choose to 'act straight'. The main problem is that it can be used as propaganda, but yes he is free to live his life the way he wants.
I was raised as a Xtian also and my sincere desire to understand why there were different faiths and reading the whole bible led me to eventually realize that they are all man-made. I gradually learned how destructive & anti-progress supernatural thinking tends to be. I'm much happier as an atheist. “When the missionaries came to Africa they had the bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray'. We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the bible and they had the land.” -Desmond Tutu
If you all actually saw the full interview, he even said HIMSELF that he wasn't attracted to any woman EXCEPT his wife. He truly loves her. God helped him to find that one woman he could be with for eternity because he stayed so faithful.
He has an emotional desire to live as a married man with family. For him, that's more important than sexual fulfilment. If people can live celibate for spiritual reasons, this man can redirect his sexual desires for the sake of a traditional family.
1) I'm not intolerant, I just feel sorry for ANYONE who denies a basic part of themselves (like their sexuality) for the benefit of their particular "god". Does he love his wife? I'm sure he does. Is he sexually attracted to her? No. There is a disconnect there. I love my male friends, but I'm not about to sleep with them. The reality is he chooses "the married life" and betrays his own natural physical desires BECAUSE of the religious perception that it's "the right way" to live.
My son did this, but not for religious reasons. He truly loved his female best friend, and he wanted children. So he convinced himself that he was bisexual, and they were married. I was highly skeptical, and didn't want to see anyone hurt. They went on to have two beautiful little boys, but the marriage did not work out. He fell in love with someone else. At some point it's going to happen. Luckily they are still good friends, but she was unfairly hurt.
You know what a gay man can love a woman, a straight guy can love a man and a straight girl can love a woman. Sexuality and love is fluid and not set like society thinks it is.
I am so perplexed by this story. This guy is redefining the term "Blurring the Lines..." Everyone should live the life that is best for them; as long as no one is getting hurt in the process... That being said, publicly outing his lifestyle may indeed be harmful to his children; it just makes understanding how we define roles in our society (so we can function in society) that much more difficult. I mean C'mon! He's a therapist? If he wasn't religious, this wouldn't be as big problem for most...
He loves his wife, but he's not IN LOVE with his wife
Tomika Washington What's the difference?
have you never been in love before?
Exactly, I love my sister, but I wouldn't want to have sex with her. So they had sex to produce their children, but I doubt they do anymore.
Because when he was young he was made to be ashamed of himself so to hide he gave into pressure and was stupid just as I was. I will never make that mistake again!!
Yup, someone's gonna be creep'n around the local gloryhole.
Glory Glory Moroni!
Even though the wife went into this situation knowing that her husband is gay, I pity her. She deserves to be with a man who WANTS her and wants to be with her because he loves every aspect of her.
Same with the husband he deserves to be with someone he wants not someone the church wants
you do what the church tells you...the thinking has already been done by the brethren in Salt Lake. I was told to just obey! That Church drove self hate into so deep, I am surprised I broke free. The Evangelicals could not cure me, and the Mormon failed as well. Both only taught me to hurt myself very badly in order beat the thoughts away. It never went away! I hate religion because of it!
suvariboy I'm not gay but I think you can love every part of them without wanting to have sex with them. Hell you could even say that people usually love people most when there's no sexual aspect involved.
why would u pity her ?????? he told her hes gay .
@@kaydenc9428 then why didnt he get a man then
Not going to end well.
I don't really care about the adults, but someone has to save their children. Indoctrination at its finest.
ANY thing parents teach their children could be considered "indoctrination" -- it is the joy of parents to pass along their faith, beliefs, life style to their children...that is not wrong and ultimately, as we all become adults we can choose for ourselves what we live. I know sports families who push their kids into tons of sports, who may not have been inclined to it...suffering exhaustion during busy seasons, keeping up with practice and school work. This could apply to all religions AND life styles. People who raise their kids vegan. People who raise their kids atheist...the list goes on.
To watch parents indoctrinate their children into hateful superstitious nonsense... makes me wanna go on a rampage.
***** Those things actually exist. Magical bearded wizards in the sky don't.
***** Male privilege (sometimes referred to as "the patriarchy") is the concept that cisgender men do not experience widespread discrimination based on the fact that they are men. For example, cis men will not experience discrimination in STEM fields for being male, but women and other non-male persons will often experience such discrimination for their gender.
White privilege is the concept that white people do not experience widespread discrimination based on the fact that they are white. For example, white people will not attract undue attention from the police simply based on the color of their skin, while nonwhites are often targeted for heightened scrutiny based solely on their race.
The concepts are pretty simple, actually. There's a lot of hemming and hawing about privilege but it's really not that difficult to understand.
***** You just overcomplicated privilege in order to discredit it. Stop reading so much into the word "privilege. Understand that widespread discrimination based *purely on race* _does not happen to white people_. Understand that that widespread discrimination based *purely on gender* _does not happen to cis male persons_.
It does _not_, and _has never meant_, that white people or men or any other majority group are automatically handed the world on a silver platter.
_I'm a white person_ and guess what? My life has been hard. I'm poor and long-term unemployed. I've been homeless. I've been hungry. I was disowned by my family. I'll very likely never be wealthy or successful in life.
None of that happened to me because I'm white. Some of it happens because I'm trans. Some of it happens because I'm poor. I recognize the shit I _don't_ have to deal with because I have light skin, because I know by listening to black trans women just how much worse it could be.
***** Widespread. Did you miss the word "widespread?" There are no monolithic institutions in the world that oppress males based purely on their maleness. None. Not a single one.
Now, there _are_ systems that oppress males based on their race, on their religion and on their sexual orientation, but that is an issue best described by the concept of kyriarchy and intersectionality. And as that discrimination is based on something other than gender, it is _also_ felt by non-male persons in the same group.
***** I'm sorry I stopped taking you seriously when you claimed that white men discriminate against white men for being white men.
"We are your typical Mormon family" I believe that.
The dude says that he is physically attracted to his wife. That means that he is not gay, but is bisexual. He is using imprecise language in his effort to prove a point.
There is nothing wrong with being bisexual, but because Josh is bisexual he is able to have a fulfilling marriage with his wife. It is impossible for a gay person to do so.
***** That is possible, but I want to give him the benefit of the doubt a little bit. I think he is just completely and utterly confused.
physical attraction means you thinks someone good looking its not teh same as sexual,I find flowers physically attractive
Maybe when he’s banging her he imagines her as a hot guy.
Guys... I think he may be...
BISEXUAL
Sexual orientation is defined by a person’s attraction-response mechanisms, not by their behavior or lifestyle. If we defined it based on behavior, what would a celibate or virgin be? In this case he admits he is sexually attracted to men. Therefore by definition he is homosexual, not bisexual.
Doug Dittmer But he also says that he's in love with his wife, so at least he's romantic attracted by women.
he said that hes only attracted to men.
Selene - all that means is that he's romantically attracted to that one particular woman. She could very well be the only one on earth that he's capable of falling in love with. (I have seen this happen, except it was the woman who is a lesbian and they are both atheist.)
We have no evidence that he's romantically attracted to women. He loves his wife deeply, but he isn't in love with her.
So sad. those kids are going to be so fucked up.
+Jesus Vasquez Yep. Religion does that all too often. At least there are some that break away early on before brainwashing.
+Jesus Vasquez i agree its sad they are being brought up Morman
They're divorcing now.
Their kiss was unsettling for me.
Haha it was so forced, and you could tell he was physically repulsed by her. Now *this* is unnatural
comanchio1976 I know right!!! So glad you said this I thought I was imagining things. It is sad though.
comanchio1976 He is obviously not repulsed by her if so how did he ejaculate and have those 3 kids? I think acting on gay impulses is like any other sin. You may have a desire to overeat or get drunk, but through prayer you can control this desire. Also I believe that God does not send us to Earth alone that he has given us each at least one partner of the opposite sex to have a family with and to love. So gays are incorrectly labeling themselves once they find that soul mate of the opposite sex they will love them and be sexually attracted to them.
cathylake1 I imagine he was fantasising about a man as he was having sex with her, and I think you're out of touch with reality
comanchio1976 I will second that.
If he wants to live his life as a straight man, let him. He looks happy, so good for him.
***** When the marriage falls apart, the wife and the kids become the collateral damage. I could excuse it if he was simply uninformed about his sexuality but this is not the case. He is aware that he is gay and made a conscious decision to marry a woman anyway. That's willful deceit. He's using her. Being married to a woman allows him self approval, even at her expense.
TheCrabbit2 You're only saying that because he's with a woman. It would be different if he was married to a man.
He's in denial. You can keep that up for a few years, but eventually the dam will burst.
They're now getting divorced and said in a blog: "... the post in which we sincerely apologize to every member of the LGBTQIA community."
suvariboy apology not accepted biiiiiitches
Each of them have new husbands now and everyone gets along and is happy.
@@amybess The gay men are now married to men? That's great!
even if he is gay he can still be romantically and/or aesthetically attracted to women. and even asexual who are not sexually attracted to anyone can have sex and enjoy it if they love their partner very much. this man is with his wife even despite not being sexuality attracted to her, that in a way makes their relationship even stronger, because they are not with each other for each other bodies but because they are best friends and being with each other makes them happy. i think his choices despite his sexuality are completely reasonable, and i think he said some very good things.
You can be in love with someone without being sexually attracted to them.
psychology tells us that for many people...this arrangement can be a problem.....it does not mean that it WILL be a problem but it can for some very basic reasons, it can lead to emotional and psychological problems....if people have this work out well, they are more of the exception and not the rule....the rule is...being gay is normal and to deny that identity and restrict the physical expression of it traded for something else, can often cause great dysfunction....or so my clinical psychology colleagues say.
Everything that gay people have shown me to proove that being gay is how they were born from youtube to wiki to websites have all shown (to me) that it is indeed a CHOICE. And this guy just goes to show this is indeed the case.
He's a sad but very important example of how much we're capable of destroying our own lives from within. He spent years obsessed about constructing a narrative intricate enough to fool himself with, and then set about acting out those fantasies to perfection. He is living proof of how we're capable of being our own worst enemies, jailors and torturers once we lose control of our emotions and our instinctive reactions to them.
In all honesty I have supported The Young Turks for almost everything but not this. If a gay man is truly in love with a woman then they can marry her and not have that get in the way. True love doesn't operate off sex nor does even marriage; he can be romantically attracted to the woman and truly love her without having sex with her. Sure he may not be sexually attracted to her but there isn't much a difference between that and sex. Not only that but as a gay male I feel very unfortunate for not being able to have biological children, so if he wanted children and loved the woman he was with what is the problem with marrying her? Really! Not only that but if he has sex with his wife and he doesn't like women it really shows that he can make compromises for his wife, especially since he still has a bond with her during it.
I support The Young Turks almost fully, but not with this. To me it seems like they were against his decision, or at least felt neutral about it.
Yeah, there was a LOT of hate coming from them.
John Pidge
hate is not coming from TYT
Montblanc Irony Look what "faith" has done to people. Embrace your mortality and stop dreaming this nightmare offered by religion.
Lol... Ok you go have relationships with people you're not attracted to because you love them and can get along fine with them. I on the other hand call these people FRIENDS, and I will NEVER be in a relationship with someone I don't feel sexual attraction to. What makes a husband or wife special and different from everyone else out there is the sexual attraction. This is why marriage is so special, and is something you should strife to only do once. This is why finding the right partner is difficult as fuck! But hey, go ahead and hump some guy you think is ugly, just because he's friendly and likes manga or anime or whatever the fuck your profile pic is.
everyone must suppress their sexual urges or else we'd be animals and not people. we would be sleeping with everyone and anything we found attractive. this guy is no different then anyone in a committed relationship. sticking with your one partner, no matter if they get old or sick or crippled. relationships of marriage are more then that. Anyone married for the long haul understands that. and understands that you are attracted by more then an initial sexual attraction.
Love doesn't not equal sexual attraction.
OMG! That kiss was cringy asf!
As long as he DOESN'T feel the need to go outside of the marriage to fulfill his needs.... 'Cause whether with a man OR woman, CHEATING IS CHEATING!!!
That mormon looks creepy.
Mormons aren't allowed porn or alcohol though. So that leads to even more secrecy and self-deception. Its a neverending cycle that rarely has a happy ending. My guess is that a decade or down the road there will be a divorce.
He looks kinda like James Rolfe, The Angry Video Game Nerd.
A lot of women in this world are single and there are a lot of men living alone. I live along and I don´t need sex. I am happy with my life. Who cares about me? so, the most important thing is to be happy.
I think it should be obvious that he is actually bisexual to some degree. I mean I know it's not impossible for some gay guys to have sex with a woman but three kids? ~shrugs~ just sayin
+Rebelaxe Six Sounds like you never met a sailor who had sex with some toothless prostitute. Young men can get it on with a watermelon or anything that walks. Young guys are drowning in testosterone and think about sex every 7 minutes. But the testosterone poisoning phase begins to wane in late 20s and 30s. Then he needs to have genuine attraction to someone to be able to get it up - or a big supply of blue pills.
Watch Fun Home. It's possible.
As they tell us that Being Gay is a "Choice" and here proving that Being Straight is also a Choice.
*MIXED ORIENTATION MARRIAGES* : Falling in love with someone doesn't guarantee sexual attraction nor does it preclude it. Mixed orientation marriages exist for the same reason that interfaith marriages exist and interracial marriages exist and that is because you can’t control who you fall in love with. Sex can be experienced outside of a loving relationship and it can also be the product of a loving relationship. In this case we have to assume that it is the product of a loving relationship so that his admission of being gay has nothing to do with his love and devotion to his wife. New York City’s Mayor Bill DeBlasio is married to an out and proud lesbian so there you have it!
Sexuality is not an on/off switch. It is a spectrum. On the Kinsey scale 0 being 100% straight and 6 being 100% gay him and DeBlasio's wife may be a 5.99 with the only straight exception being their spouse. This guy has been forthright in saying that they've built sexual intimacy by developing the bond they have. Isn't that what every couple wants? He never said there wasn't attraction but that attraction to his wife is a more involved experience than other people have. Basically what drives this gay man to be sexually attracted to this woman is that he is deeply in love with her person as a whole.
As for his wife every woman would love to marry their gay best friend and if she has even the remotest chance of making this work why would she not give it a chance? To her it's a dream come true, especially since he is out proud, religious and doesn't see a conflict. He sounds like a confident charismatic guy. Why wouldn't she find him attractive?
The error in your logic is that you're assuming women's sexuality and men's sexuality are the same thing. They are not. Women are 4 times more likely to be behaviorally bisexual because women's attraction-response mechanisms are based on romance, seduction, and the other person's personality. Plumbing equipment is not all that important. It's what's between the ears, not the plumbing that turns women on. But men are far more visual. It is very much about body parts and plumbing equipment and that is why men are much less likely to be attracted to both genders.
Doug Dittmer There is no error in my logic,; less likely and more likely do not rule something out completely. You can't say for certain what's in somebody elses head. You are turned on by body parts, especially the sexual ones but he may not be as much. Sexuality is fluid. He may be 2 points away from being A sexual and enjoys her company so much so that it makes him want to have sex with her. You just don't know. So stop trying to label everything and put it in neat little boxes. This just doesn't work in real life.
+Anthony Rizzo Researcher Lisa Diamond has pushed the concept of sexual fluidity but she admits that it exists in women - not men. Male sexuality works very differently than female sexuality. Female arousal is less dependent on physicality or visual triggers.
Doug Dittmer That's caveman thinking.
+Anthony Rizzo It may be caveman thinking in your mind, but it's backed up by research that includes brain imaging during arousal. Gay or straight or bisexual, males are turned on by visual triggers while women are turned on by the story line, the context, romance and seduction - not as much by visuals.
100 bucks he is cheating on her.
Of course, we know that being gay is a natural, normal, unchosen and unchangeable component of the human condition. We also know that "religious"-based homophobia and oppression has led to a great deal of misinformation and oppression against the gay community, just as it did against the black community, women, and other minority groups.
If people have "unwanted" characteristics and despise their own sexual orientation, race, heritage, etc., it's NOT because they are bad or unnatural, it's because mindless man-made bigotry has caused self-loathing among vulnerable individuals. So the answer is to eradicate the anti-gay, anti-black, anti-minority toxicity that has infected the feeble-minded bigots of society, and bring enlightenment, education, and acceptance of diversity to the masses.
The only people who delude themselves into hoping that being gay is a "choice" are those indoctrinated into the vast ignorance of their chosen religious lifestyle. Their misinformation about, and condemnation of, the gay community makes them no better than the bigots who segregated the balcks or who put Jews behind barbed wire.
natte Rich "Christians" were not anti-slavery, and Hitler was baptized a Catholic and never formally left the church, even though he felt disdain for religion.
natte Rich
that's why they he believed in supernatural spiritual beliefs like the Aryans where chosen by god not the Jews ..
They Bible is loaded with versus on how a slave should obey their masters words as if they were from God ,(Ephesians ,Colossians)
two reasons why you're an idiot
And what does this has to with anything ?
Are you trying to say that only a christian can notice that slavery is a bad thing ? can you really stick your own head that far up your own ass to believe that ?
Of course, we know that being gay is a natural, normal, unchosen and unchangeable component of the human condition
You do realize, there is plenty of evidence to the contrary, right?
John Doy I do realize that anti-gay zealots HOPE there is evidence to the contrary, and delude themselves into believing it is so, but in reality, no such evidence exists. Sorry.
"In other words, I close my eyes and think of Bob." LOL
They should make forcing kids into religion illegal
what conflicts me is that i don't know if this is truly HIS choice, or if it's the result of internalized homophobia. as a fellow gay person who grew up mormon (and loved the church deeply until i learned more about its history), i could very easily see the latter being the case
It's not unheard of for a person to fall in love with someone who falls outside of what they would normally find sexually attractive. I'm also gay but and have always been attracted to men, but I fell in love with a woman. She's the only woman I've ever been attracted to, and have been since. This can also happen to straight people too, you're normally attracted to the opposite sex but suddenly this one individual comes alone that just blows you off your feet and makes you question everything about yourself. And you can either see it for what it probably is, and isolated incident and move on or you can make a big deal out of it and maybe miss out on a genuine, loving experience. And being open about the situation with that special someone, makes a world of difference too.
Fast forward to 2018 and Josh has both gotten a divorce and left the Mormon church. He’s still involved with his ex-wife and kids on a regular basis, but they decided that they both deserve better relationships.
I'm a lesbian...but growing up in religion has socially conditioned me to hate myself for crushes on them. That's why I can't stand it. People should be able to love who they wish, and whoever wants to stop that is an idiot.
Akemi Moon I know how you feel. I'm pansexual and I'm living in a super religious family that hates and beats me for even be able to be attracted to the same gender as me. They also hate how I'm also Lunagendered as well. I also live in Utah where everyone is like my family and is super religious. I wish religious people were not so full of hate and would learned to love like their book tells them to
THEY ARE NOW GETTING DIVORCED. HE WANTS TO FIND A MAN! WASTED YEARS!
Love is more then Sex!!!!
+Jamie Lucas Thank you! Love is so much more than just sex and sexual attraction. I would rather want to be with someone I love than someone I am only able to be sexual attracted to. I am sexually attracted to my boyfriend but I know stuff like that fades. I want to be with him because I love him more than anyone could imagine, and before we got together he was my best friend. We have an open relationship to make these kind of things easier, but we have love on a so much deeper level. Sexual attraction doesn't make a relationship, love and respect is what makes a relationship. I wish more people would understand this.
i look at love is more then just feelings, it is a decision and a commitment. my husband and I are having a rough time these days but i believe our commitment and the right type of love is what keeps us together Agape. Storgē Philia. Eros.
The Ancient Greeks' 6 Words for Lov
Agape is the love I believe you and i have for our partners, Philila (friendship) and Eros (sexual) Best to have all three for a relationship but the sexual attraction may come and go.
I found some golden files on my hard drive and I think they're from God. You can't see them but seriously guys, this is the real deal!
So... Basically Mormonism 😂
Ok, ok. So he chose to have a family and thatfor married a woman. Weird enough, but ok. But if he really is gay there is NO way that he could EVER have a fullfilling sex-live with that woman. He's got to be at least bi, otherwise in my opppinion or he's just lying to himself and fullfills a kind of a "duty" in bed that he feels he is supposed to fullfill.
Glad to hear it. Double check the exact quote. I always recommend making a reasonable attempt to verify any quotes you read, especially online.
“The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it's difficult to determine whether or not they are genuine.”
-Abraham Lincoln
Talk about an oxymoron ha ha.
I'm surprised that he only has one wife, seeing as he is a Morman.
eye C wut U didd thar.
Jason Storer I'm not religious, but I do know the Ladder Day Saints distenced it's self from polyigamy ( I may not be spelling that properly) in 1908!!!!!!!!
tommy morin Except for all of the fundamentalist denominations within the LDS faith that do still believe in, and practice, 'the principle' (as it's called by its adherents).
When you refer to Latter Day Saints distancing themselves from polygamy in 1908, you refer to the denomination, that, since 1838, has called itself the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but which is widely referred to by others, as, 'the Mormon church' (or 'mainstream Mormon church').
Please Note: other LDS denominations have, of course, also left off the practice of polygamy, but each has done so for their own reasons and at various times before and since 1908. Google 'the principle of polygamy', for a start, if you are interested in more information about polygamy and its continued role within the Mormon faith.
4:36
"In other words: close my eyes and think of Bob."
I completely lost my shit.
I'm no expert, but there is a good chance that dude is bisexual.
Got me?
Sexual orientation is based on attraction - not behavior. Since he is primarily physically attracted to men, by definition he is homosexual - not bisexual.
"Like go run a hardware store" Hahaha
"His wife knows he's gay." alright then
You know when you're in trouble when the only reaction to this news story is to start singing
'Turn It Off'.
I remember reading a book titled Walden Two. It was a novel based on the behavior modification theories of psychologist B. F. Skinner.
This man's approach to being himself is reminiscent of what I remember feeling after reading Walden Two
I think this is more sinister than the Turks. This advances the narrative of "choice" with respect to homosexuality, which it is not.
He is gay, but he is choosing to repress who he is. This is not a positive example by any means.
Well - apparently they are both thinking about Bob - so maybe they ought to bring Bob over sometime for a "mixer" - if you know what I'm sayin'
I totally get this. I'm a lesbian and if I didn't think I had a chance at being happy with a women, I would marry my male best friend without hesitation. I'd rather be with someone I love (even if I'm not IN love with them) than nobody at all.
He's quite clear saying people should make their own choice, NOT, "Do (or don't do) as I did." He's also quite clear in confirming it is NOT a choice, he is what he is. He's chosen to not *act* on his impulses, which IS a choice, just as many people with good or bad impulses can choose to not act on them.
He should be admired for his honesty, convictions, and his acceptance of others to make their own choices.
I m a Mormon from Latin America and I dare say this guy made a good decision: he sided on love, for love sakes, and its bringing more benefits than sadness. Mormonism is a powerful religion and he s putting it to the test,and is coming out sucessful. Contrats to him. Hope in the future your opportunity for reconsidering your gay problem might change, but if the attitude is twards same sex attraction still the same as he cannot yet change it -so he says, he s smart and chose having a wife and children, experiences that do not come with gay life
(continued) The post you quoted mentioned that things people have a strong moral aversion to being more objectionable than things people simply aren't attracted to. Knowledge of the higher rate of birth defects immediately come to mind. Looking at the animal kingdom, both humans and non-humans seem to exhibit various anti-incest mechanisms, hell, incest has been taboo in nearly every human society. Admittedly I'm given pause when people mention same-sex/infertile incest, but... *shrug*
I've been with guys whom I didn't initially find attractive, but after getting to know them and falling for them my entire view of them changes and I love everything about them on the inside and outside.
this man does not deny his sexuality, his wife is aware, and they still LOVE eachother very much, there is no law against marrying your best friend, who are you to judge them in their choice to raise kids together? they never claim this as some sort of cure, this is their choice and it should be respected
Ben has ALWAYS been one of my favorite people on this show, and he CONTINUES to be.
Ben is beholden to his idea's, which are based, mostly on common sense In the context of being well informed. he never shy's away from anything even if it seems "offensive" even to the people he is in agreement with. If he feels something that no one else does, he will let everyone know why he thinks they are wrong, and I LOVE THAT because THAT is how we get smarter, because if he is wrong he WILL admit it.
Joining a community can be a choice. Certainly being born into one is hardly a choice, but it's also universal. We're all born into some community, and we all reach a point where we have to decide what is right for us.
We all make concessions to our communities. It's what builds kinship and shared background. It's what builds a fabric of a community.
This is his choice (and his wife's). He isn't forcing it on anyone. He's telling his story, and we are all richer for it.
sexuality and romance are related in most cases but they are not dependent of each other, it is entirely possible for homosexuals to fall in love with some one of the opposite gender and vice versa, there is also the cases of one being bi romatic or bi curious, I apologise for any grammar mistakes
I remember first reading (with my friend who is a shrink) about Mormon "church" does to their gay kids back in the late 80's. Forced against their will into reparative "therapy" institutions, where they are heavily drugged to be more compliant, draconian torture, electro shock therapy, mind control etc... to change gay behavior. You can see this demonstrated in the great movie "latter days"
Generally the definition of "last" when it comes to marriage is when one partner dies or is effectively removed from the marriage (dementia, coma, etc.).
If this is a typical mormon family then consider me a atheist. This guy has cracked his head not a nut
I'm a straight man, I'm attracted to women. If I was EXPECTED by some religion/social club/etc. to ignore my sexual preference in favor of marrying someone I don't find attractive (a male, in this case), I could not do it. Because my sexual preference IS a part of who I am. "The right way" doesn't mean anything compared to who I am and what I truly feel. Compromise in the name of "god" is foolish and self-imposed bondage. If you deny yourself for "god", you're a fool. No less.
I have a friend who is a lesbian who is married to a man. In her case, she simply fell head over heels in love with a man and found herself sexually attracted to him AFTER she fell in love with him. She finds no other men sexually attractive, period.
So it is possible for someone to fall in love with and marry someone of a sex different from the one they are attracted to in general (and no, that doesn't make them bisexual). It's all about truly being deeply in love with a person's soul and not their body.
Edited to add that my friend is atheist, as is her husband.
That was a great video! Trying to get past the hosts reading into the video political and self serving motives, I'm looking deeper. Two people can love each other dearly and on some level it can actually be a spiritual joining experience-I believe that is what this man and his wife have had. That does not necessarily mean his sexual orientation has changed. He has made a conscious choice to place his religious convictions above his passions, and with a strong community of support, concern. Love and prayer he is able to live the life he wants to. That doesn't mean those desires have left, but he is in a much better place to not indulge them. I can definitely see his ability as a therapist to reach patients that are not going to be helped by other mental health practitioners. I only know of one other story like this. An extremely religious Jew of the Hassidic branch was also homosexual in orientation from his youngest years. Because of his deep religious beliefs which included submersing himself in the Torah for hours daily, he was able to marry, stay faithful to his wife and have 10 kids. He said the desire to practice homosexuality is always with him, but he is able not to.
Shall we look deeper yet? Your wording:
"Because of his deep religious beliefs which included submersing himself in the Torah for hours daily, he was able to marry, stay faithful to his wife and have 10 kids. He said the desire to practice homosexuality is always with him, but he is able not to."
"he was able to": here you imply that homosexuality is a thing to be overcame and that achieving heterosexuality while burdened with homosexual urges is an act worthy of accolade. This analysis is not to dispute the sentiments I have derived from your text, but simply to establish that to some extent, the purpose of your statement is to glorify heterosexuality.
"Because of his deep religious beliefs": so here you are attributing his overcoming his homosexual urges to religiousness. The Judea-Christian God is a creator and both of these men are worshipers of this god respective of the religious views they self-imply.
"He said the desire to practice homosexuality is always with him": by quoting this, you imply an understanding of the lack of deliberation and the permanent condition of homosexuality. Regardless of this quote as a source of evidence, for many years attempts were made to treat homosexuality with all sorts of clinical measures to no avail and research strongly implies it to be a phenomena of birth.
"but he is able not to": I revisit this quote, this time including the word "but", the reason being that having said all that I have so far, you confuse me with the conclusion you seem to be arriving to:
The Judea-Christian God created these men, any permanent and inherent attribute they posses, is due solely to that God. (Similar to being born male, female or of any racial orientation, these traits are veracious despite deliberation) Their homosexuality are inherent traits that persist in a similar fashion to any other characteristic defined by genetics. This God created them in such a fashion, however, the "moral" thing to do is to stifle that homosexuality. It is to the glory of the same God, their creator, who made them in such a fashion, that they are able to deny those urges that he created them with.
-*my breakdown of your comment*
This analysis is presumptuous though. It is created with the presumption that you are heterosexual and therefore understand that being homosexual is a rare phenomena entirely exclusive to the heterosexual crowd as "heterosexuality" is not defined by enacting heterosexual urges, but by the sentiment of being attracted to members of the opposite sex and "homosexuality" is defined by the sentiment of attraction to one's own sex. I also presume that you, keeping an understanding of the definitive terms of sexual orientation in mind, also differentiate homosexual urges from what you would call "sin" on the basis of their lack of similarity regarding commonality. Anyone can have a "sinful" urge while only those born with the capacity can have a homosexual urge.
The thing about love is love doesn't equal attraction, and this is the perfect example of this. You can love someone in different ways and different reasons, without being attracted to them. That's what they're proving right here.
This deserves more upvotes.
she ripped open her body and mind to someone that doesnt even like her...why didnt he just go ith a man and adopt a child that needed a home!?
now thats an unfair accusation. he may have love her very much he is just not exited sexually. My parents care for each other dearly but they havent had sex in 10 years
that's true :( im sorry... its just what i said wasn't fair but neither is what happens in real life...people DO act on how they think is safest in society but they should do what they really want in the first place before it hurts others and stop worrying about homophobic idiots who don't know what they are talking about.. and sex can actually play a big role in marriage. you need to be able to love your partner physically and be attracted to them no matter what kind of body they have.and no matter how busy you are with work, hobbies, kids, you can always make time to make love with your partner. its true people cant always help it but.... idk... sorry all im thinking is that people should be more honest about their sexuality and practice what they believe before getting married and having children. because it can really tear someone apart. but it depends on how we are i guess x-x. thank you
P. V.C I find it quite disturbing that you know about your parents sex life. lol
anyone else notice, his eyeballs weren't quite converging correctly. Its like his brain was fighting and it was reflected in the position of his eyes
i love how theres a "Guhh" noise at 01:24 xD
I think HONESTY is a/an BIG/IMPORTANT part of a healthy, happy relationship or marriage!
Good points made by everyone on this panel. Well done.
My suggestion would be instead of chopping the clips into multiple, TYT can do it one big clip of more than a hour. That would be really good.
The last comment, "I'd be really surprised if the Mormon church doesn't pitch this in some way."-that's not a direct quote of course. I haven't seen the mormon leaders discuss this in any way with it's members. Anyone heard anything different?
I wonder if anyone who is bashing this guy ever thought maybe he just found a woman that he loves more then anything so maybe his "urges" or "lust" just aren't important to him? Personally I'm all for gay marriage I have quite a few friends who are gay and personally don't care who they marry or do "stuff" with (well as long as the person isn't a general scum bag who will rob them blind and leave them in debt up to their eye balls that is gotta watch out for your bros!.) but my point is don't bash just enjoy the fact that this man found love that is all that matters! and on a side not I have a few lesbian friend's who have told me right to my face that they love me and that they want to marry me someday (no idea why) just saying maybe love is more important then lust sometimes "love can become lust and love can become lust the two are forever connected and bound." but that also makes me think of another "People are assholes" so fuck it shit happens lol.
You all should watch his story on Mormonstories. Its rather interesting. Something to take into account is he has never actually explored/experimented with a man. His wife was his first and ONLY girlfriend. I get the feeling had he actually explored his sexuality with men, he probably would not have ended up marrying his wife and ended up with a man. We do have to give him some credit, he is way more honest than Alan Chambers from that Exodus foundation.
Also listen to what Josh does in his counseling, and what counselors do in general. They ask what the person being counseled want. What they genuinelyl think will make them happen. What you are asking is to go to scientific studies and say "this is how you have to live otherwise you are rejecting who you are." Counseling goes so far beyond that, it is very individual.
Did you watch the video? They said throughout its entirety that they are more than happy with his choice to marry a woman, because that is his life. The only problem that arose with them is that he is "helping people reconcile their sexual orientation" which means he could be harming people.
The only problem is that he could be having a negative effect on other people. They achieved very much their goal in this.
I'm gay, and I totally agreed with them.
This makes the striking point in a subtle way, that sexual orientation has little to do with deliberation. There is already research pointing strongly in this direction, but some people choose to be selective in their acceptance of empirical data. I feel that many of those people may look to this as an example of how homosexuality doesn't have to be accepted and may simply relate to this story because this man attributes his refrain from acting out his sexuality, to the same thing that many people use support their belief that homosexuality is "immoral", religion. In doing so, they must also accept that there is no choice in the matter; this story is a strong point from which one could debate religious, anti-homosexual rhetoric.
Props to him for making his own choice.
You're absolutely correct regarding the historical place of xtianity as opposed to other beliefs. Because the Eastern beliefs generally don't recognize a singular deity the way the Abrahamic faiths do, it's inappropriate for me to include them in my diatribe.
I designate the Eastern beliefs in the realm of philosophy, not organized religion. But that's my personal interpretation, of course. As I try to integrate the 9 Pillars into my life, I regret my aspersions cast toward those beliefs.
I agree with you, but not everyone can just shut their brains down and act dumb. The more broad your overall knowledge base is, especially on the truth of what is really going on behind the scenes, the more hopeless things can seem.
Not to say that everything is hopeless. There are so many amazing things happening every single day, and I feel very lucky to be alive.
The main problem I have is knowing that a small group of people can cause so much pain and suffering for billions of people.
I think the point they were making on TYT is that the video sort of encourages the idea that if you are gay, you can suppress your sexual desires and choose to 'act straight'. The main problem is that it can be used as propaganda, but yes he is free to live his life the way he wants.
I was raised as a Xtian also and my sincere desire to understand why there were different faiths and reading the whole bible led me to eventually realize that they are all man-made. I gradually learned how destructive & anti-progress supernatural thinking tends to be. I'm much happier as an atheist.
“When the missionaries came to Africa they had the bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray'. We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the bible and they had the land.”
-Desmond Tutu
Them moment he said "I am homosexual you hear some one go buh`a! like there holding themselves back from busting out laughing.
We're your typical Mormon family: We have three beautiful daughters.
If you all actually saw the full interview, he even said HIMSELF that he wasn't attracted to any woman EXCEPT his wife. He truly loves her. God helped him to find that one woman he could be with for eternity because he stayed so faithful.
This are the best news anchors!!!
He has an emotional desire to live as a married man with family. For him, that's more important than sexual fulfilment. If people can live celibate for spiritual reasons, this man can redirect his sexual desires for the sake of a traditional family.
1) I'm not intolerant, I just feel sorry for ANYONE who denies a basic part of themselves (like their sexuality) for the benefit of their particular "god". Does he love his wife? I'm sure he does. Is he sexually attracted to her? No. There is a disconnect there. I love my male friends, but I'm not about to sleep with them. The reality is he chooses "the married life" and betrays his own natural physical desires BECAUSE of the religious perception that it's "the right way" to live.
My son did this, but not for religious reasons. He truly loved his female best friend, and he wanted children. So he convinced himself that he was bisexual, and they were married. I was highly skeptical, and didn't want to see anyone hurt. They went on to have two beautiful little boys, but the marriage did not work out. He fell in love with someone else. At some point it's going to happen. Luckily they are still good friends, but she was unfairly hurt.
You know what a gay man can love a woman, a straight guy can love a man and a straight girl can love a woman. Sexuality and love is fluid and not set like society thinks it is.
I am so perplexed by this story. This guy is redefining the term "Blurring the Lines..." Everyone should live the life that is best for them; as long as no one is getting hurt in the process... That being said, publicly outing his lifestyle may indeed be harmful to his children; it just makes understanding how we define roles in our society (so we can function in society) that much more difficult.
I mean C'mon! He's a therapist? If he wasn't religious, this wouldn't be as big problem for most...
I was married twice before I came out. Mormon faith is absolutely crazy. I want to come back and see what they are doing in 10 years.
"Turn it off, like a light switch and go *click*. It a neat little Mormon "trick".
As a gay woman, I give him props for his honesty. He seems very decent and I don't think he should be judged
1:16 what the hell face is that kid making? LOL