I like the phrase “the gift of pastor/teacher”. It begs the question, if you are given the gift of pastor/teacher, why do you have to go to a college and learn it? The qualifications in 1 Timothy specify the OJT training which substantiates your gift, God gives you what you need. Also, going to college locks you into a denomination and teaches you knowledge is inspired by man.
Yes, God does give you what you need. Could you consider this: There would be no need for Peter, John, Paul, James, and other Gospel (OT) writers. Everything would be done by the Lord God. God uses people. When He spoke the Word, everything came into existence. No man was around. But then, He said, "Let Us make man in Our image." From there, the Lord God will use man to bring His message to humanity.
It has nothing to do with a woman's ability at all. It's about obedience to Him. It has to do with how God ordered things, as in the marriage. It is more about trusting in Who He is rather than the qualifications of the person to do it. God is a God of order. Someone may be good at killing but it doesn't make it right to do so. I have had to and continue to learn that submitting to The Lord in each and every circumstance, and to die to myself trusting in Who He is, rather myself and what I feel or want. I am not my own and have been bought with a price. I will be forever maturing in this until I graduate from this world, or He returns. I am to be dependent upon Him in all.
Dear Father, my prayer for @al-lv1no is for your covering protection from the narcissistic abuse being experienced. Lord Father, you see all and hear all, please provide safe refuge, peace of mind beyond human comprehension and engulf this person with your unfailing love, in the name of Jesus Christ.
I do not suffer a woman to teach...or have authority over a man...HOW CLEAR DO YOU WANT IT😅? That's crystal to me. Preaching is teaching however you rework it it's the truth. You really have to deceive yourself to believe otherwise. Teaching also comes with authority automatically, it's literally part of the word description. How can you teach without having authority? Who would truly listen? Also the fact that it's clearly stated, BECAUSE EVE WAS DECEIVED... women should show the utmost submission in a biblical church. The Bible also provides many ways woman SHOULD be. And leadership is not in those examples. We're so obsessed with being equal and socially relevant, we're giving up clearly stated direction for the entire church. We must repent and pray for true revival and not surface cultural Christianity. It's very dangerous to misinterpret the scriptures and it's leading many to a false gospel with false salvation and a false idea of the messiah Yeshua the LORD Jesus Christ. GOD will not be mocked. Play time is over and time is short. We must tell the truth.
@@Szpak-123 Exceptions are not the standard. Some women are indeed good teachers, but if they are put in the position of pastor/elder, it is setting a new precedent, that is against the order that God has ordained. That is how the whole problem got started back in Genesis 3. "Did God really say..... Yes He said it and He meant it, you will surely die. Nothing new under the sun, unless you are under the Son. We cannot disagree with what God said, for doing so is sin.
@@gordoncrawley5826 Since a woman could be a pastor in the Old Covenant, a woman can be a pastor in the New Covenant. Simple really. I suggest my free scripturally-based essay on Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles, by God. ...the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people... In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’ -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. A Judge's verdict could not be altered or appealed. A Judge was REQUIRED in scripture to judge only the hardest of cases. Refusal to accept a Judge's verdict on any matter, resulted in execution, according to Deuteronomy. A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture as he/she gave a verdict, according to Deuteronomy. Since in Judges 4, men went to Deborah to be judged, a woman could teach men, even in the Old Covenant in a public setting. If your beliefs can't explain all this, they must be false. Full read time: 10 minutes postable here
Nice succinct presentation. The book “Biblical Eldership” by Alexander Strauch does a nice job of covering all the church offices. The one gap in the book in my opinion is the topic of “calling”. Which is a very important element as many turn this into a mystical experience leveraging “ Hearing the voice of God” apart from Scripture.
It’s interesting how God used George Mueller even though he started out as a drunken womanizer whose father sent him to divinity school to become a state ordained pastor that could support his father in his old age. More of a dad calling than one from God but God still used this man mightily after he attended a unsponsored, illegal, house church and gave his life to Jesus Christ. He and his wife had a policy that began with their first church that would be good for all of us to put in practice today, especially churches and church related ministries, that of making his needs known to no man but to God only through prayer. It was so effective that he was able to start orphanages that peaked at serving over 2000 children in England with Bible training, an education, training in a serviceable trade, housing, and clothing at a time when their countrymen regarded them as the next lowest thing to a snake’s belly without ever making his needs known to man. We have lost sight of how powerful prayer is in our society.
It’s interesting how God used George Mueller in the 1800’s even though he started out as a drunken womanizer whose father sent him to the state church divinity school to become a state ordained pastor that could support his father in his old age. More of a dad calling than one from God but God still used this man mightily after he attended a unsponsored, illegal, house church that led to his giving his life to Jesus Christ. He and his wife had a strict policy that began with their first church that would be good for all of us to put in practice today, especially churches and church related ministries, that of making his needs known to no man but to God only through prayer. It was so effective that he was able to start orphanages that peaked at serving over 2000 children in England with Bible training, a basic education, training in a serviceable trade, housing, and clothing during a time when their countrymen regarded them as the next lowest thing to a snake’s belly without ever making his needs known to any man. We have lost sight of how powerful prayer is to Jehovah-Jireh, our provider, in our society.
Some observations: -- Given the active debates about the proper translation of several words in 1 Tim. 2:11-12, especially "authenteo," it seems odd to view it as one of the "clear" passages. -- Given that Scripture never uses the word "office" in regard to "pastor" or "elder" any other ministry, it seems odd to try to delineate a distinction on that basis. Certainly it does not occur in Eph. 4, which makes your emphasis on it there odd. -- It seems odd and careless to interpret Eph. 4:10-11 without considering the "charis" and "gifts" terminology in v. 7-8 of the passage. Likewise, it seems odd and careless to interpret the passage in isolation from 1 Cor. 12-13 and Rom. 12, where similar words and concepts occur. -- The idea that the listings in 1 Tim. 3 and Tit. 1 are to be universal rules rather than ad hoc guidelines is of course a hermeneutical presupposition. Even assuming that to be true, there is no justification to focus on the "maleness" as opposed to the equal "necessity" to be *married* AND to have *multiple* children. Finally, the proper translation of "mias guniakos andra" and of the various (and always ungendered) pronouns are debated; see CEB and CEV translations. Ultimately, whatever the Bible "REALLY" teaches about women in the church, it is not at all clear that your view is correct.
Thank you for trying to bring clarity to a hotly disputed topic with a short teaching based on scripture. The NT church of the first century bears little resemblance to the way most modern-day churches are run. I think some things have become distorted and corrupted (probably a strategy of satan to destroy the church). I have followed some excellent teachings by (gifted) women teachers who clearly know the bible and have done their homework. At the same time, I used to attend a church run by a husband/wife pastoral team (senior and associate pastors). The husband could preach a good sermon but often his teachings were peppered with untruths. The wife pastor was a pulpit bully and some of her sermons were really toxic.
There is no "office" called pastor/teacher. That is an interpretive stretch without scriptural support. Elder/overseer is the office and they must have the ability to teach or they fail the test. Paul says to elders that they must shepherd the flock. Again, teaching and shepherding are the work -- not the office.
Excellent teaching. I noticed that you mentioned head covering for Christian women and then did not discuss it. Everybody is avoiding the elephant in the room!
When I was a pastor in a conservative church our denomination taught that only THAT part of the verse was cultural. A consistent interpretation would require women to wear a head covering. Also I see a lot internet Christians quote from Deuteronomy to smite the sinner. So I leave you this reminder for women in the church Deuteronomy 25 :11 “When men fight with one another and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, 12 then you shall cut off her hand. Your eye shall have no pity. ESV
There seem to be two different types of headcoverings discussed in that passage- long hair which is her everyday covering and an additional fabric covering for when she prays or prophesies in the church. It seems the purpose of the head covering was a ststement- not a statement to angels, but to messengers (same word) or visitors to the church who might get the wrong impression and think it was ok for a woman to be in a teaching or leadership position. I believe the fabric covering makes the statement that the woman praying or prophesying in a public church gathering is an out-of-the-ordinary event and that she is still under male authority and not in a leadership position.
@@dianeschrimsher9984 Thank you! That the word is simply “messengers” is rarely (if ever) a part of the discussion on head covering, though it’s a key component to understanding the text. Defining what it means to prophesy, as the command for her to cover is connected to her prophesying, is probably the most important to understanding whether women are required to cover today and where people will differ on the subject.
I'm praying for the Lord to call his church to equal weights in handling the Scripture! The way that text has been dismissed as a cultural issue is appalling in light of all the other instructions to the New Testament church that people can clearly see have no basis in culture. Likewise the apostle did not base his analysis in 1 Cor 11 in culture but in the creation order and male headship. I guess it's not so important to the male pastors so they don't hold it as firmly as women pastoring but it will be important to the women in discipleship if they are not encouraged to hold Scripture authoratitively.
@Your_Uncle_is_watching Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. “Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in this same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. -excerpt Matthew 5 -words of Jesus Indeed, all who want to live in a godly way in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. -excerpt 2 Timothy 3 I then thought it the more needful to get at the facts behind their statements. Therefore I placed two women, called “deaconesses,” under torture, but I found only a debased superstition carried to great lengths, so I postponed my examination, and immediately consulted you. -excerpt Pliny the Younger’s Letter to Emperor Trajan Regarding the Christians about 111 A.D.
After spending a few years in the ministry of Bible translation, I realized the profound challenges with languages and that everything involves choices. Choices that are made by people from different backgrounds, bringing some bias to the table. That impacts even our translations. We also pick and choose what to enforce. You cite the passage that requires an elder to be the husband of one wife. Some choose to make that all about being male but few argue that an elder must be married, not single. We can also raise the question about who decides what gifts are bestowed. Is it not the Holy Spirit that does the gifting?
Taking those passages as literally requiring a male, would, as you say, also require marriage -- AND children (plural). The CEB and CEV translations are relevant here.
Male headship is seen all through the bible from the very beginning to the very end. Man was created first and God gave him authority. Woman was made from man as a helper for man. She is not inferior to man, but God gave her a different role in life. The role of mother is to be highly honored as she alone can bring life into the world. She is the homemaker and sets the course of her children's lives. Men are to be the head both in the family and the church to keep the order of God consistent in human life. To offset the danger of the abuse of women, God gave the command to love them. The three persons of the trinity are deemed as male and so to the angels. Christ, the second Adam, will rule as King forever. Keeping the Creation Order of male headship is much more important than we may think, and it is God ordained and is evident in the scriptures. For example, transgressing the Creation Order is how we got to SSM, a serious abomination.
Deborah was a mother, FYI. A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. A Judge's verdict could not be altered or appealed. A Judge was REQUIRED in scripture to judge only the hardest of cases. Refusal to accept a Judge's verdict on any matter, resulted in execution, according to Deuteronomy.
I think it is a mistake to ground the argument against women's ordination in the two office argument, since it is not so obvious that the three and four office views are false, but women would still be disqualified anyway. If every pastor is an elder but not every elder is a pastor, and if all elders must be male, then a woman may serve neither as elder nor pastor.
Have you ever considered that you aren’t a Christian at all? It seems more like you are teaching a “Paul Cult” theology and not the teachings of Jesus.
Paul said that he got revelation directly from Jesus Christ so his teachings are authoritative. If that is not true, then his Gospel is suspect, and if the Gospel is the power unto salvation (Romans 1:16) then we all have a defective faith, for how can we know what is truth and what is not in the scriptures? It is all or it is nothing at all, just another man made religion. Either you believe it or you don't.
So the words of Jesus are inadequate? So Paul received an Anointing greater than the cleaning lady? I think NOT! The words of Moses were God’s words and your predecessors the Pharisees, Scribes, and Sadducees perverted them just like you do the words of Paul. They tore apart Judaism the way this guy is tearing apart the Church of Jesus by teaching their own stupidity and not the words of Jesus. G3 is the modern pharisaical movement and Jesus decried woe unto the first batch. The problem wasn’t Moses then, and its not Paul now, the problem is the modern reformed Pharisee.
You are confusing preaching with sermons. Preaching can be done by any believer, it’s proclaiming good news. Patriarchal arrogance renames preaching as witnessing. European biblical misunderstanding is a major quirk in the worldwide body of Christ.
Do not wear a crew cut white t-shirt under a polo. Just go straight polo or v-neck so the t-shirt doesn’t show. Try it. The neck lines will look so much better.
Many new believers haven't yet had the opportunity to read through the entire Bible yet, and certainly not study its context. Discernment videos will always be not only necessary, but also a benefit to those who may be new in the faith, and also those who may be weak due to weak leadership. Praise God and thank him for your ability to understand without it. But I wouldn't discourage the making of the video for those who don't. It may cause them to open that Bible and take a deeper look to see if what he says is true.
@@briannehill7583 Paul never walked with Jesus. Paul taught a hierarchical and false view of Christianity. Men over women. Men over men. I've looked and written informally on this. Once you see it, you can't un-see it. Regardless, there still is Deborah. The Christians of the first century that knew her story AND the authority of a Judge over Israel knew this entire 'women in ministry' matter was settled with her centuries earlier. The scriptures of the Old Testament was all that they had to go by. It was good enough for them. It should be good enough for us.
I would argue that the doctrine of Calvinism is 💯 Biblical. Its NOT John Calvin's doctrine, its Biblical. Those who speak against Calvinism, dont truly understand it. Theyve only heard garbage lies taught from someone who is Biblically ignorant.
@@SolusChristus76 I think your claim non Calvinists have never understood doesn't withstand scrutiny. I left it behind by reading the bible more carefully and not making it conform to an external interpretative grid.
@@SolusChristus76 I think your claim non Calvinists have never understood won't withstand scrutiny. There are those of us who left it behind by _reading the bible more carefully_ and not making it conform to an external interpretative grid set out in confessions and systematic theology.
G3, there's no Biblical restrictions on women teaching in Church. But that aside, you really need to get your facts right about the Biblical God and His teachings on salvation and other teachings that you oppose.
A question I ask which often creates discomfort in men is, who knows the heart of the Father better or more, the son or the daughter? This is a rhetorical question with only one obvious answer. A question if one answers honestly will have to come to the obvious and definitive answer concerning mans calling and function in the church and his duty to exercise righteous authority over the women in the body. If one just examines the fruit that comes from women pastors, you will find that most, if not all women pastors who govern a church govern with a compassion that is always soft and even protective of those in sin, often perceiving them as marginalized people or victims who need to be protected. The need to protect from the bullies, from those who are orthodox, becomes a women’s first instinct, being compelled by her motherly compassion to protect the perceived victim and not by the Holy Spirit.
We know that's what you think and what you think is the solution to problems - but what does God say? Could what He says about His solution be good and sufficient for the church and the care of the flock/His people?
@@daveyo8221 I am not sure what you are arguing, for women pastors or against. You say, “We know that’s what you think and what you think is the solution to problems”. Who is we? Refute what “I think”. I will ask you, who knows the heart of the Father better, the Son or the daughter? There is only one right answer. Can you or will you answer it?
@robertknox7050 - the qualification for Elders / Pastors outlined in the Bible is not "who knows the heart of the Father better." So what are the qualifications - do you know where these are found in the Bible? I understand you saying that you *think* the solution for victimised people is women pastors - could it be that the qualifications for a Pastor/Elder from Scripture is God's design, good, and protects women, children (and men)?
@robertknox7050 - your question about knowing the heart of the Father is not the right question: "What has God said" IS the RIGHT question. The OT and NT is littered with examples of Israel / God's people being rebuked for their so-called logical deducing of how they should worship and/or lead his people, rather than obeying what He clearly said to them.
@robertknox7050 unless... did I understand you incorrectly, and you are perhaps NOT for women pastors and were wanting to show that the fruit from women Pastors is negative? Even so, I would still ask the better question "what has God said" which is clearer and less subjective about what is good and bad fruit from a humanistic sense, and indeed God's Word says clearly what good and bad fruit actually is, and His design for men and women.
I like the phrase “the gift of pastor/teacher”. It begs the question, if you are given the gift of pastor/teacher, why do you have to go to a college and learn it? The qualifications in 1 Timothy specify the OJT training which substantiates your gift, God gives you what you need. Also, going to college locks you into a denomination and teaches you knowledge is inspired by man.
Yes, God does give you what you need. Could you consider this: There would be no need for Peter, John, Paul, James, and other Gospel (OT) writers. Everything would be done by the Lord God. God uses people. When He spoke the Word, everything came into existence. No man was around. But then, He said, "Let Us make man in Our image." From there, the Lord God will use man to bring His message to humanity.
wrong! Read Scripture better
@ cute name, would love to correct you, but I should not have a battle of the wits with an unarmed individual
It has nothing to do with a woman's ability at all. It's about obedience to Him. It has to do with how God ordered things, as in the marriage. It is more about trusting in Who He is rather than the qualifications of the person to do it. God is a God of order. Someone may be good at killing but it doesn't make it right to do so.
I have had to and continue to learn that submitting to The Lord in each and every circumstance, and to die to myself trusting in Who He is, rather myself and what I feel or want. I am not my own and have been bought with a price. I will be forever maturing in this until I graduate from this world, or He returns. I am to be dependent upon Him in all.
Well said. Yes, its that simple.
Amen. The Church needs to have the right men in the correct offices . Women need to obey the Lord
do men need to obey the Lord?
Absolutely, men need to obey the Lord , just as women need too. I just assumed men needed to also.
Please pray for me about narcissistic abuse I have been experiencing especially from one person in my life in particular. Thank you.
Dear Father, my prayer for @al-lv1no is for your covering protection from the narcissistic abuse being experienced. Lord Father, you see all and hear all, please provide safe refuge, peace of mind beyond human comprehension and engulf this person with your unfailing love, in the name of Jesus Christ.
I do not suffer a woman to teach...or have authority over a man...HOW CLEAR DO YOU WANT IT😅? That's crystal to me. Preaching is teaching however you rework it it's the truth. You really have to deceive yourself to believe otherwise. Teaching also comes with authority automatically, it's literally part of the word description. How can you teach without having authority? Who would truly listen? Also the fact that it's clearly stated, BECAUSE EVE WAS DECEIVED... women should show the utmost submission in a biblical church. The Bible also provides many ways woman SHOULD be. And leadership is not in those examples. We're so obsessed with being equal and socially relevant, we're giving up clearly stated direction for the entire church. We must repent and pray for true revival and not surface cultural Christianity. It's very dangerous to misinterpret the scriptures and it's leading many to a false gospel with false salvation and a false idea of the messiah Yeshua the LORD Jesus Christ. GOD will not be mocked. Play time is over and time is short. We must tell the truth.
💯 I wonder what God will do to the women pastors. Can they be considered saved if they are aware of the instruction and chose lawlessness?
Deborah was the Judge over Israel. Her husband was not.
A Judge was cleared to teach scripture when judging men.
@@Szpak-123 Exceptions are not the standard. Some women are indeed good teachers, but if they are put in the position of pastor/elder, it is setting a new precedent, that is against the order that God has ordained. That is how the whole problem got started back in Genesis 3. "Did God really say..... Yes He said it and He meant it, you will surely die. Nothing new under the sun, unless you are under the Son. We cannot disagree with what God said, for doing so is sin.
@@gordoncrawley5826
Since a woman could be a pastor in the Old Covenant, a woman
can be a pastor in the New Covenant. Simple really.
I suggest my free scripturally-based essay on Deborah.
Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles, by God.
...the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people...
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. A Judge's verdict could not be altered or appealed.
A Judge was REQUIRED in scripture to judge only the hardest of cases.
Refusal to accept a Judge's verdict on any matter,
resulted in execution, according to Deuteronomy.
A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture as he/she gave a verdict, according to Deuteronomy. Since in Judges 4, men went to Deborah to be judged, a woman could teach men, even in the Old Covenant in a public setting.
If your beliefs can't explain all this, they must be false.
Full read time: 10 minutes postable here
Nice succinct presentation. The book “Biblical Eldership” by Alexander Strauch does a nice job of covering all the church offices. The one gap in the book in my opinion is the topic of “calling”. Which is a very important element as many turn this into a mystical experience leveraging “ Hearing the voice of God” apart from Scripture.
The best book I ever read on eldership
It’s interesting how God used George Mueller even though he started out as a drunken womanizer whose father sent him to divinity school to become a state ordained pastor that could support his father in his old age. More of a dad calling than one from God but God still used this man mightily after he attended a unsponsored, illegal, house church and gave his life to Jesus Christ. He and his wife had a policy that began with their first church that would be good for all of us to put in practice today, especially churches and church related ministries, that of making his needs known to no man but to God only through prayer. It was so effective that he was able to start orphanages that peaked at serving over 2000 children in England with Bible training, an education, training in a serviceable trade, housing, and clothing at a time when their countrymen regarded them as the next lowest thing to a snake’s belly without ever making his needs known to man. We have lost sight of how powerful prayer is in our society.
It’s interesting how God used George Mueller in the 1800’s even though he started out as a drunken womanizer whose father sent him to the state church divinity school to become a state ordained pastor that could support his father in his old age. More of a dad calling than one from God but God still used this man mightily after he attended a unsponsored, illegal, house church that led to his giving his life to Jesus Christ. He and his wife had a strict policy that began with their first church that would be good for all of us to put in practice today, especially churches and church related ministries, that of making his needs known to no man but to God only through prayer. It was so effective that he was able to start orphanages that peaked at serving over 2000 children in England with Bible training, a basic education, training in a serviceable trade, housing, and clothing during a time when their countrymen regarded them as the next lowest thing to a snake’s belly without ever making his needs known to any man. We have lost sight of how powerful prayer is to Jehovah-Jireh, our provider, in our society.
Some observations:
-- Given the active debates about the proper translation of several words in 1 Tim. 2:11-12, especially "authenteo," it seems odd to view it as one of the "clear" passages.
-- Given that Scripture never uses the word "office" in regard to "pastor" or "elder" any other ministry, it seems odd to try to delineate a distinction on that basis. Certainly it does not occur in Eph. 4, which makes your emphasis on it there odd.
-- It seems odd and careless to interpret Eph. 4:10-11 without considering the "charis" and "gifts" terminology in v. 7-8 of the passage. Likewise, it seems odd and careless to interpret the passage in isolation from 1 Cor. 12-13 and Rom. 12, where similar words and concepts occur.
-- The idea that the listings in 1 Tim. 3 and Tit. 1 are to be universal rules rather than ad hoc guidelines is of course a hermeneutical presupposition. Even assuming that to be true, there is no justification to focus on the "maleness" as opposed to the equal "necessity" to be *married* AND to have *multiple* children. Finally, the proper translation of "mias guniakos andra" and of the various (and always ungendered) pronouns are debated; see CEB and CEV translations.
Ultimately, whatever the Bible "REALLY" teaches about women in the church, it is not at all clear that your view is correct.
Bookmarking. Thank you.
The verses are not difficult. Men and women are hard hearted and refuse to accept them.
Excellent 🙏
Thank you for trying to bring clarity to a hotly disputed topic with a short teaching based on scripture. The NT church of the first century bears little resemblance to the way most modern-day churches are run. I think some things have become distorted and corrupted (probably a strategy of satan to destroy the church). I have followed some excellent teachings by (gifted) women teachers who clearly know the bible and have done their homework. At the same time, I used to attend a church run by a husband/wife pastoral team (senior and associate pastors). The husband could preach a good sermon but often his teachings were peppered with untruths. The wife pastor was a pulpit bully and some of her sermons were really toxic.
There is no "office" called pastor/teacher. That is an interpretive stretch without scriptural support. Elder/overseer is the office and they must have the ability to teach or they fail the test. Paul says to elders that they must shepherd the flock. Again, teaching and shepherding are the work -- not the office.
I would simply say that we MUST follow Godly order! God-Man-Woman-children. We women are NOT to teach or hold any office over a man.
Deborah. Judges 4 and 5.
EXCELLENT!!!!!
What about the women traveling with Paul. Also was Paul married this begs more more questions.
I regard Paul as almost a false teacher. I've looked
and written about a number of his teachings.
Excellent teaching. I noticed that you mentioned head covering for Christian women and then did not discuss it. Everybody is avoiding the elephant in the room!
When I was a pastor in a conservative church our denomination taught that only THAT part of the verse was cultural. A consistent interpretation would require women to wear a head covering. Also I see a lot internet Christians quote from Deuteronomy to smite the sinner. So I leave you this reminder for women in the church
Deuteronomy 25 :11 “When men fight with one another and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, 12 then you shall cut off her hand. Your eye shall have no pity. ESV
There seem to be two different types of headcoverings discussed in that passage- long hair which is her everyday covering and an additional fabric covering for when she prays or prophesies in the church.
It seems the purpose of the head covering was a ststement- not a statement to angels, but to messengers (same word) or visitors to the church who might get the wrong impression and think it was ok for a woman to be in a teaching or leadership position. I believe the fabric covering makes the statement that the woman praying or prophesying in a public church gathering is an out-of-the-ordinary event and that she is still under male authority and not in a leadership position.
he was giving examples of things difficult to understand in Scripture, but the point of the video was specifically for women's role in the Church.
@@dianeschrimsher9984 Thank you! That the word is simply “messengers” is rarely (if ever) a part of the discussion on head covering, though it’s a key component to understanding the text. Defining what it means to prophesy, as the command for her to cover is connected to her prophesying, is probably the most important to understanding whether women are required to cover today and where people will differ on the subject.
I'm praying for the Lord to call his church to equal weights in handling the Scripture! The way that text has been dismissed as a cultural issue is appalling in light of all the other instructions to the New Testament church that people can clearly see have no basis in culture. Likewise the apostle did not base his analysis in 1 Cor 11 in culture but in the creation order and male headship. I guess it's not so important to the male pastors so they don't hold it as firmly as women pastoring but it will be important to the women in discipleship if they are not encouraged to hold Scripture authoratitively.
And what of "Deacon"?
The same principle for pastor applies to deacons.
Phoebe was clearly a deacon, Rom. 16:1 and the qualifications of female deacons are listed in I Tim. 3:11.
Women can’t be decons, same principle applies.
@@warrenroby6907 Yes Strong's G 1249 male / female deacons both exist.
@Your_Uncle_is_watching
Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. “Blessed are you when people insult you
and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in this same way
they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
-excerpt Matthew 5
-words of Jesus
Indeed, all who want to live in a godly way in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.
-excerpt 2 Timothy 3
I then thought it the more needful to get at the
facts behind their statements. Therefore I placed two
women, called “deaconesses,” under torture, but I
found only a debased superstition carried to great
lengths, so I postponed my examination, and
immediately consulted you.
-excerpt Pliny the Younger’s Letter to Emperor Trajan Regarding the Christians
about 111 A.D.
After spending a few years in the ministry of Bible translation, I realized the profound challenges with languages and that everything involves choices. Choices that are made by people from different backgrounds, bringing some bias to the table. That impacts even our translations. We also pick and choose what to enforce. You cite the passage that requires an elder to be the husband of one wife. Some choose to make that all about being male but few argue that an elder must be married, not single. We can also raise the question about who decides what gifts are bestowed. Is it not the Holy Spirit that does the gifting?
Taking those passages as literally requiring a male, would, as you say, also require marriage -- AND children (plural). The CEB and CEV translations are relevant here.
@@Norrin777Radd Agreed. Everyone chooses what to take literally or not, depends on one's agenda?
Paul had Women that taught men in the church gathering. 1st Corinthians. Ch 14. read it when it says ALL have a teaching, etc. and yes Preaching.
Amen 🙏🏽
Male headship is seen all through the bible from the very beginning to the very end. Man was created first and God gave him authority. Woman was made from man as a helper for man. She is not inferior to man, but God gave her a different role in life. The role of mother is to be highly honored as she alone can bring life into the world. She is the homemaker and sets the course of her children's lives. Men are to be the head both in the family and the church to keep the order of God consistent in human life. To offset the danger of the abuse of women, God gave the command to love them. The three persons of the trinity are deemed as male and so to the angels. Christ, the second Adam, will rule as King forever. Keeping the Creation Order of male headship is much more important than we may think, and it is God ordained and is evident in the scriptures. For example, transgressing the Creation Order is how we got to SSM, a serious abomination.
Deborah was a mother, FYI.
A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. A Judge's verdict could not be altered or appealed.
A Judge was REQUIRED in scripture to judge only the hardest of cases.
Refusal to accept a Judge's verdict on any matter,
resulted in execution, according to Deuteronomy.
I think it is a mistake to ground the argument against women's ordination in the two office argument, since it is not so obvious that the three and four office views are false, but women would still be disqualified anyway.
If every pastor is an elder but not every elder is a pastor, and if all elders must be male, then a woman may serve neither as elder nor pastor.
The Judges were pastors/shepherds. So, Deborah.
Have you ever considered that you aren’t a Christian at all? It seems more like you are teaching a “Paul Cult” theology and not the teachings of Jesus.
Paul said that he got revelation directly from Jesus Christ so his teachings are authoritative. If that is not true, then his Gospel is suspect, and if the Gospel is the power unto salvation (Romans 1:16) then we all have a defective faith, for how can we know what is truth and what is not in the scriptures? It is all or it is nothing at all, just another man made religion. Either you believe it or you don't.
So the words of Jesus are inadequate? So Paul received an Anointing greater than the cleaning lady? I think NOT! The words of Moses were God’s words and your predecessors the Pharisees, Scribes, and Sadducees perverted them just like you do the words of Paul. They tore apart Judaism the way this guy is tearing apart the Church of Jesus by teaching their own stupidity and not the words of Jesus. G3 is the modern pharisaical movement and Jesus decried woe unto the first batch.
The problem wasn’t Moses then, and its not Paul now, the problem is the modern reformed Pharisee.
You are confusing preaching with sermons. Preaching can be done by any believer, it’s proclaiming good news.
Patriarchal arrogance renames preaching as witnessing.
European biblical misunderstanding is a major quirk in the worldwide body of Christ.
Do not wear a crew cut white t-shirt under a polo. Just go straight polo or v-neck so the t-shirt doesn’t show. Try it. The neck lines will look so much better.
We don't need this video. The bible makes it clear and defines the women's role in the church.
We do need this video because women's role in the Church is no longer clear
@@HearGodsWordTo those who don’t study or who don’t understand the Bible
Many new believers haven't yet had the opportunity to read through the entire Bible yet, and certainly not study its context. Discernment videos will always be not only necessary, but also a benefit to those who may be new in the faith, and also those who may be weak due to weak leadership. Praise God and thank him for your ability to understand without it. But I wouldn't discourage the making of the video for those who don't. It may cause them to open that Bible and take a deeper look to see if what he says is true.
Personally, you may not. However, there are many out there still struggling with this. Videos like this help them see what Scripture clearly teaches.
@@briannehill7583
Paul never walked with Jesus. Paul taught a hierarchical
and false view of Christianity. Men over women. Men over men.
I've looked and written informally on this. Once you see it,
you can't un-see it.
Regardless, there still is Deborah. The Christians of the first
century that knew her story AND the authority of a Judge over
Israel knew this entire 'women in ministry' matter was settled
with her centuries earlier.
The scriptures of the Old Testament was all that they had to
go by. It was good enough for them. It should be good
enough for us.
Need to get rid of Calvinism.
Need to get a hold of Calvinism. I did and after I really understood the teaching I grew closer to this great God of Creation.
@gordoncrawley5826 You're on the wrong track wasting your time with unbibical calvinist evil doctrines.
Very good. It's a pity you're a Calvinist though!
I would argue that the doctrine of Calvinism is 💯 Biblical. Its NOT John Calvin's doctrine, its Biblical. Those who speak against Calvinism, dont truly understand it. Theyve only heard garbage lies taught from someone who is Biblically ignorant.
@@SolusChristus76 I think your claim non Calvinists have never understood doesn't withstand scrutiny. I left it behind by reading the bible more carefully and not making it conform to an external interpretative grid.
@@SolusChristus76 Isn't there different forms of Calvinism that disagree with each other? Are they all 100% correct then?
@ there are different forms yes, but only slightly
@@SolusChristus76 I think your claim non Calvinists have never understood won't withstand scrutiny. There are those of us who left it behind by _reading the bible more carefully_ and not making it conform to an external interpretative grid set out in confessions and systematic theology.
This video was good, bad and confusing. That’s three different words to mean the video is sad. Be my friend. Come believe in Jesus! 🤪❤️😇
G3, there's no Biblical restrictions on women teaching in Church. But that aside, you really need to get your facts right about the Biblical God and His teachings on salvation and other teachings that you oppose.
1 Timothy 2 v 12-14
@louisekord9790 1 Tim 12--14 doesn't stop a woman teaching in church. It's talking about the wife not taking authority over her husband.
A question I ask which often creates discomfort in men is, who knows the heart of the Father better or more, the son or the daughter? This is a rhetorical question with only one obvious answer. A question if one answers honestly will have to come to the obvious and definitive answer concerning mans calling and function in the church and his duty to exercise righteous authority over the women in the body. If one just examines the fruit that comes from women pastors, you will find that most, if not all women pastors who govern a church govern with a compassion that is always soft and even protective of those in sin, often perceiving them as marginalized people or victims who need to be protected. The need to protect from the bullies, from those who are orthodox, becomes a women’s first instinct, being compelled by her motherly compassion to protect the perceived victim and not by the Holy Spirit.
We know that's what you think and what you think is the solution to problems - but what does God say? Could what He says about His solution be good and sufficient for the church and the care of the flock/His people?
@@daveyo8221 I am not sure what you are arguing, for women pastors or against. You say, “We know that’s what you think and what you think is the solution to problems”. Who is we? Refute what “I think”. I will ask you, who knows the heart of the Father better, the Son or the daughter? There is only one right answer. Can you or will you answer it?
@robertknox7050 - the qualification for Elders / Pastors outlined in the Bible is not "who knows the heart of the Father better." So what are the qualifications - do you know where these are found in the Bible?
I understand you saying that you *think* the solution for victimised people is women pastors - could it be that the qualifications for a Pastor/Elder from Scripture is God's design, good, and protects women, children (and men)?
@robertknox7050 - your question about knowing the heart of the Father is not the right question: "What has God said" IS the RIGHT question. The OT and NT is littered with examples of Israel / God's people being rebuked for their so-called logical deducing of how they should worship and/or lead his people, rather than obeying what He clearly said to them.
@robertknox7050 unless... did I understand you incorrectly, and you are perhaps NOT for women pastors and were wanting to show that the fruit from women Pastors is negative?
Even so, I would still ask the better question "what has God said" which is clearer and less subjective about what is good and bad fruit from a humanistic sense, and indeed God's Word says clearly what good and bad fruit actually is, and His design for men and women.
your KJV - which God hates - is so corrupt that you just as well could 'explain' that [non-theme] with a toaster manual .