STRANGER THINGS 4: What Worked and What Didn’t | ScreenCrush Rewind
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- Опубликовано: 28 май 2024
- Stranger Things 4 was a return to form for the Netflix series, bringing together threads and teases form the previous seasons to set up a final showdown in Hawkins, Indiana. But the season had its flaws, and some people flat-out didn't like it. We give our take on what worked, what didn't and what we can expect in Season 5.
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Written and Hosted by Ryan Arey ( / ryanarey )
Edited by Ryan Arey, Srinidhi Rao, and Sean Martin
Featuring:
Adam Lance Garcia ( / adamlancegarcia )
Heather Antos: ( / heatherantos )
To talk about why I liked season 4 so much, I gotta talk about why I did not like season 3. It;s not a bad season of TV. I love these characters, and there were some really compelling character arcs and those fun 80s references. Like, everything with Eleven and max-great. But the Russian stuff did not work for me.
Doug: Ins;t that basically the entire season.
Yes, that’s basically the entire season. Stranger things 1 and 2 worlds because we were in a fairly normal universe, where one thing was out of place: Hawkins lab. The lab opened a portal, held a super powered kid there. If you grew up in a small town with a mysterious building near it, then maybe you could even relate to the premise of the show.
Season 3 took this basic premise and got wau, way too silly with it. The idea that the Soviet Union could establish a sprawling underground lab under a mall in Indiana, just a few miles from one of the most top secret government labs ever-not believable. Demogorgons I can take, cause that’s weird sci-fi stuff. But the storyline where the mayor of a town of a few thousand people strikes a secret deal with the Evil empire to build a mall-bro.
[that’s just lazy writing]. I loved the new characters like Robin and Alexi, loved seeing the gang come together and all that-but the Russian stuff was too goofball. Plus, the Joyvce Hopper storyline was extremely irritating. The show was trying to mimic the love hate re;ationships of shows like Moonlighting.
This made Hopper seem jealous of Bob, and insiejive about Joyce’s grief. Sothis story dragged down the rest of the show, which undercut his death, which was undercut a few minutes after it happened [not the American].
This storyline also exposed a weird flaw in the show’s structure that has been there since season 1. The kids have to be left alone. They can;t go to the authorities, or tell their parents. And most importantly, Joyce and Hopper have to have a reason to not protect their kids. The kids can;t have an adult support network, or the whole premise collapses.
But this season turned that weakness into a strength. The Russian story seems superfluous on the surface. Like maybe they wrote themselves into a corner with Hopper’s death, and they just had to find a way to write them out of the main story. But actually, this storyline was a key part of this season.
One, it got hopper and joyce away form the kids in a fun, creative way. Two, it brought back Hopper. Three, this was a genuinely fun caper. The season didn;t have much comic relief, but Murray and Yuri brought the laughs. [Murray karate].
I also like that it was drawn out. Escaping from a Russian gulag should be difficult. Hopper’s false start escape shows us how hopeless his situation was, and ,ade me think that maybe they kept him alive just to kill him.
The prison is also a danger that we can understand. Telekinetic and psychic battle with a demon ghost in alternate dimensions is hard to wrap your mind around. So the seasons' grounded conflicts, like the jocks' satanic panic and the russian prison give us human villains we can understand.
It also showed us how good Hopper is in a fight. We know that he served in the military, but up until now he’s been a dumpy small town sheriff. This season elevated dhim to an action hero, which he’ll need to be in the next season. Also, loved when he outsmarted the tough guy russians and organized them into a team. Again, bodes well for season 5.
The final fight with the demogrgans and mind dust was also pretty great, and did a good job with the kids’ final battle.
This also showed us that the evil of the upside down can defeat one of the world’s superpowers. The Russians or the US government can;t save Hawkins-only the main character's can. 
Кино
This woman complaining about Lucas' character arc when I'm so glad that he had more development and showed his loyalty when it truly mattered. He's allowed to have interests other than being a nerd(such as basketball). Like steve didn't need a redemption arc, it wouldn't have done much for the story in s1, but it's still a good addition to have. Outsmarting stereotypes rather than have Lucas as a side character as a one dimensional nerd.
I felt the jock was super one dimensional. It felt very mean spirited that he ended up dying at the end, as if people who are misinformed or brainwashed due to a traumatic event deserve to die if they don’t handle it well
I would like to add that Lucas was very, very relatable. There are many people that have had the inner conflict between being a nerd and wanting to be popular. Plus, it was not out of character for Lucas to want it. Personally, the one change I would have made was have Mike say he loves El and get her locked into battle with Vecna. Then Joyce saves Hopper from the Demidog. They start killing other stuff, and that actually physically weakens Vecna, which allows El to get the upper hand.
@@TrueGamer22887 Jason became straight-up evil and murderous. He wasn't some passive trauma victim
@@d.h.8279 he by no means became evil. He becoming understandably vengeful and quite literally saw what he thought was confirmation of a demonic cult right before his eyes
@@bobjohnson9201 isn’t that technically what they did though?
The last two episodes didn’t feel too long, I enjoyed every second. This was my favorite season overall. It’s not without flaws, but perfect is the enemy of good.
I watch Screen Crush because I love how Ryan can dissect scenes and point out easter eggs and symbolism and not be one of those fan boys who are never satisfied and overly critical of everything (like the 2 guests).
“It's better to create something that others criticize than to create nothing and criticize others.” - Ricky Gervais
Agreed. The guests were just being wet blankets and couldn't explain the reasoning behind their cynical opinions.
@@Ryan-xz7qp It is not even just this video, EVERY SINGLE TIME, these "guests" come on it is to shit on the topic in question.
Did they loan the channel some money or otherwise?
I completely agree, I’ve had this complaint before as well. They are just trying to have a hot take to create some conflict or conversation but both of them come off as wishy washy. Both takes are very shallow in my opinion.
They are literal writers of book and comics, wtf you talking about "create nothing"?
Exactly! We'll said
I disagree with the "Eddie didn't have to leave the trailer and die" argument.
I think Eddie realized that the gate in the trailer is no longer just a gate. It's a wide open door. Anyone can easily climb through...or fly through.
He realized that these bat's are getting into this trailer, and if he escapes through the gate hole, the bat's will still be right behind him.
Dustin wasn't lying when he said Eddie died a hero. He literally grew the bat's away, saving a town that turned its back on and villainized him.
just close the trailer doors and run, either way the gate in his trailer would've broken into the main gate at the end
The bats took hours to kill him and just flew around randomly even though there were thousands of them.
@@triangleguy4716 If the bats found a way into the upside down trailer within minutes, you bet your butt that they'll find their way out of the real world trailer.
He sacrificed himself for the plan that the massive gates wouldn't open. He did it in hopes that everything else was going to plan, and he didn't want to be the loose end the f**ked up by running.
I don't think it was about the bats getting through the portal, they would have gone back to the group attacking Vecna and he kept them busy so they didn't go back.
I think it was integral and made all the difference that he bought them that extra time.
I just wish it was made clear why he needed to stall longer like he said for why he did it. Maybe a signal from the other group that the "needed more time" or something. It felt like he determined they needed to stall the bats longer without any proof just so he could have his hero moment.
I find Vecna far more scary and compelling of a villain than generic evil dark cloud (mind flayer)
Thank you, I mean people say Vecna is generic which is fair but having a cloud that wants to kill without any monologue or backstory and it keeps coming back is even more generic. The issue with Vecna's intentions is you can connect him to other pop culture villains.
@@safcjoe7062 makes sense because vecna created the mind flayer out of pure hatred and anger with one goal.
@@mrchiefbs and always Will and Billy called the Mind Flayer a "him". Plus eleven easily overpowers the shadow form when she shuts the gate which is a good parallel to how Vecna just shows up and controls the mind flayer with ease. I thought him snatching her powers made sense too because part of that spider flayer did crawl away in the cabin.
The problem with Vecna is they know how to beat him already. He has limits, I think something will cause him to try to ditch his body and will create the new big boss of s5. I don't think Vecna as we know him will make it as the final villain.
@@safcjoe7062 nah he looks like grinch
I disagree with them both. It feels like they needed to find things to pick at and critique because they needed something to be wrong with it. Because god forbid, if you consider yourself a professional, you can't ever just enjoy something or think something was done well. There MUST be something you could have done better if you were writing for [x] show and there MUST be something to over criticize. I think this season was written strongly overall and the storylines felt like natural progressions from the last time we saw the cast. Granted, the russian storyline was a bit dragged out, but escaping a russian prison isn't like leaving disneyland and fighting through traffic. It was meant to be DIFFICULT and hopeless. Additionally, I'm usually inclined to agree that narrative monologues can be a lazy way to provide exposition. However, I also believe that they CAN be effective and sometimes the only real way to provide information without adding on another 5-6 episodes. Please tell me HOW the kids were supposed to piece all that information together... I think the monologue was fine and felt in line with the way the story was progressing. Getting different opinions on a subject can be fun, but good lord, we don't have to be dislikeable about it.
Exactly and it was an amazing part to leave volume one on as vecna was talking to Nancy and 001 was talking to el
i mean i understand your points. But people can just not enjoy certain aspects of a show without them looking for things to hate. I enjoyed some aspects and disliked others.
@A. Wolf I agree with you 100%
You don't have to find things to pick at, the show hands it to you. It was a good season, but there are some really dumb and played-out parts of this show that held back a lot of opportunities to expand on the characters and the world.
The best parts for me are the beginning where there is more horror and mystery, then it just stops entirely. They reveal too much too quickly and that mystery and magic is gone. Character plot armor is stupid in this show, nothing feels dangerous. (You know who) should have died, and not just that person. There needs to be more consequences to the main cast to show how serious and dangerous the world is, and not to the new season characters only. The odds should be heavily weighed against the cast, and not just fixed by Eleven raising up her hand and screaming until she get a nose bleed.
It's not about "I'm a professional therefore I can't enjoy this". People can want some aspects of this show to be better.
i agree i was lowkey getting annoyed with some of their point but i think they’re looking at it too much from a writer point of view. also the complaints of it being too long is dumb cause it never felt dragged on and why are we complaining when we won’t get to see the next season for another two years.
I think lucas deserved a story arc and that’s been a short coming of the show. Perhaps heather didn’t understand or care too because it wasn’t written with her in mind. There are however many of us who can and or could see a little of ourselves in him.
Yeah, I was really surprised that she segregated him as a non main narrative character. I found that so bizarre. The way she talks about Lucas as if he is going to become essential through helping Max next season is creepy. Why does she single him out as less essential? I mean… I believe Max doesn’t even appear until the second season-we spent a whole season with Lucas before she was even written in!
Also, the way she talks about how Billy is Max’s downfall and Lucas could become a more significant character by lifting her up, ugh, reminds me of how Black/African American roles in film and video have sometimes used people who hold these identities to play roles that only serve to further the journey of a white character.
I don’t think she is doing this intentionally, but I think that some of what she is saying seems rooted in subconscious indoctrination into outdated social norms.
Personally, I loved his inner conflict between his inner nerd and his desire to be a jock. I think it’s extremely relatable for so many people. Especially the people that are drawn to this kind of show.
@@JooYoungChoi spot on.
@@GabesEdtiz thank you so much :)
@@bobjohnson9201 I totally agree with you :)
Not you calling Lucas “Lewis.” Put some respect on his name!
I kept wondering the same thing haha
He kept doing it over and over 😂
I came here to see if anyone else caught that too. It was annoying.
@@shannaschueller maybe he was thinking of Lewis from the Simpsons. The only other black kid character on there.
@@ChrisWolfe111 but she kept calling him Lucas and he still called him Lewis.
Adam's complaint that they didn't stick with a Lovecraftian horror as the main villain is unrealistic from a storytelling perspective. If the writers plan to wrap up this series, they need something that can be destroyed for the finale. You can't destroy a Lovecraftian horror, but you can destroy Vecna. Hence why they had to go to where his physical body was located while they knew he would be distracted. If the main villain was something like the mind-flayer, the only thing they would ever be able to do would be to banish it and seal off the gate, leaving it as a potential threat in the future. I think the writers want the ending to be more satisfyingly final.
But it IS a lovecraftian horror. Just through the media of Vecna. The shadow, the dark cloud. Thats a god man. He gave it shape and melded it. He isnt perfect but it can be
Unrealistic if you aren't a writer yourself
It is not unrealistic from a story perspective... there is no need for a villain to be defeated to end a series
You don’t need a fairytale ending for a TV show…no need for a villain to be defeated permanently for a show to end great
Now with the way they did things with Vecna and the latest Mindflayer reveal, we could easily see the Mindflayer again and bring more monsters in. With Vecna, this helps explain the mythology of old and new monsters. If it was just monsters, there would be no strong way to explain their motives and connections. Vecna brings everything together.
I really enjoy Screen Crush and Ryan Arey, they way he breaks down and composes his analysis. To me, his opinions never come off hot-take-ey but measured and truly analyses the finer details of movies or shows. However every time we do these ask a friend episodes I get so irritated. Maybe they have inside perspective but they always, always, come off as hot-takes and lack the attention to detail Ryan Arey puts together. I find myself stopping a halfway because there are so many times I can say “wtf are you talking about?” Before I have to call it quits. I’ll keep watching the breakdown and analysis videos.
I feel the same!
I want to see Ryan collab with the RLM guys.
Yes these arguments are so bad. This girl couldn’t even elaborate or cohesively put together a simple sentence or point. I had a hard time listening to her
the whole bit about max and lucas relationship not impacting max "downfall" (for a lack of a better word), when the show hits us over the head several times with how its that distance that made max's grief about billy unbearable to cope and left her at the mercy of vecna like.............. also complaining about the characters not having arcs and then belittling and undermining the one character that (FINALLY) got an arc of his own.... the math aint mathing we should have made notes before this
I totally agree I’m a huge fan of Ryan and can’t stand the other folks…imo they look for critiques and try and sound smarter than they need to be
I would have preferred to watch Ryan talk about this one on his own. The guest criticism was just annoying and slightly pretentious
I agree, Ryan is great. All the analysts make me feel bad for really enjoying something :/
I always loath the videos he does with guests…they always bring the quality of the commentary down.
Yeah, we must have been watching different versions of the shows. Season 4 was INCREDIBLY strong and I don't get their wishy washiness at all. Seems like they were looking for analysis points to justify having their roles/jobs. But hey, it's all subjective. Still, I loved it and really wanna watch season 3 & 4 again JUST because 4 was so strong. My kids agree.
Agree! The guest critics are very annoying.
Totally agree
Every guest on these: The show was garbage. Nothing worked. It fail flatter than Jennifer Lopez’s live vocals.
Ryan: I liked it…
What?! This season was so awesome especially when you look at how the pandemic has affected many tv shows. St still managed to hold it own and it spread the story. Not only in Hawkins and that made it feel like a graphic novel. Everything worked out in the end to give a great and compelling story.
Some people deliberately upload contrarian reviews for the clicks and $. It’s just business.
This season was my favourite season of TV…ever. I thought it was fantastic. Emotional, action packed and with deep character and multiple plot line development.
I feel like people are critiquing and finding things to be problematic about the show. To deny that the writing connected and blended the seasons well would be unjust. They definitely put the budget for the show to good use, and these commentators are ridiculous in their reasoning and criticisms. . .
Literally Will and Billy described the Mind Flayer as "him" it's obsession with Eleven. The fact that in the shadow form El easily overpowered it closing the gate, as we say One does when he goes to the Upside Down. There's so many other things.
💯💯💯
I completely agree. The entire show at its core is about this ensemble of characters who are more than friends, they’ve become family to one another and the love they all share, be it platonic or romantic, is deep. As such a family unit, the season demonstrates that they will do anything for one another, like trying to help from afar when they can’t be together physically. The interconnected of the season and show8ng what is happening in each thread is central to the arc. In the end, they all came together to fight Vecna. It wasn’t a one person show. The two guests today seem to have completely missed this as both a season and a through-line of the entire series.
Let’s, like, never, like, have, like, Heather, like, back, like, on the channel. Russia was unnecessary? This season was great.
I’m sorry but heather just flat out shouldn’t even offer a opinion. Did she even watch stranger things?
I completely disagree with almost everything she said. This season was great and LOVED by the fans. I believe the 2 guests on the show were overly critical of this season. Critics will be critics I guess.
Yes I hope they never come back. They were awful guests
@@TheXenogias Because they have a different opinion than you?
@@mediamail2561 did you even watch the video? if you had then you will see how horrendously flawed their arguments are. but obviously you didn't.
@@TheXenogias name the flaws in their arguments please :)
No cap she talking all bullshit why he bring her on like if you didn’t like the show say that in a comment and shut up nobody cares bout your bullshit opinion because the show was really good and this season explains and answers almost everything going back to season one how Vecna/Henry/One was behind everything and it makes sense and his motivation
To put it nicely, Adam isn’t the best commentator. His opinions are way off & often doesn’t understand things that happen in shows lol.
EDIT: Honestly, Ryan, your work is exceptional. You should definitely do more episodes where you share your opinions & theories. But even Heather is way off. Obviously season 4 isn't perfect but the points she's making make no sense. The story could've happened without Lucas?! Or the fact that an episode in & of itself can't be 2.5 hours, irrespective of how good it is? And on & on. She's so off.
I cant even finish her talking at all.
@@isaacreymundo7907 Same. She's just so negative about everything and I like watching this channel to get away from all that and just get a breakdown.
Yeah, I'm with this poster. I'm finding these episodes with Heather and Adam aren't hitting the right notes. I've never read either of their works (to my knowledge), but it seems to me that they are really stating "*I* wouldn't have done it this way," as if they are truly experts on TV production, and bluntly, they aren't. And like the other poster has said, I think Ryan's analyses are more on point, and less out of touch with what consumers are looking for, and that's really what pop culture is about.
I completely disagree with Adam and Heather. They fell asleep during most of the season, and their understanding of the characters is immature. Please, Adam & Heather, watch the show before your speak!
Overall, I thought season 4 was very good and much better than season 3. I don't agree with the harsh critiques given about this season at all. I absolutely loved the scene of Max running and breaking free in her mind from Vecna in the cemetery. I also LOVED episode 7, "Massacre at Hawkins Lab" and the revelation of Henry being 001. I thought it was great revealing Henry/001/Vecna as the series villain tying all the seasons together. At first, when I thought season 4 was going to be the series finale I was not so happy with the ending in episode 9, but now I'm really looking forward to how Eleven and all the cast will come together to defeat Vecna. I thought Lucas's story arc was good and necessary with his relationship with Max. I loved how Eddie was able to redeem himself and fight in memory of Chrissy. I'm hoping the final showdown of season 5 will be written and directed very well because the story has been my favorite since the first episode.
Those were my favorite moments too
Agreed!
Exactly! I've no idea what these people were complaining about.
Respectfully disagree! imo s4 has a lot of inconsistencies (like how some characters are off! Things that don’t line up such as the gate being opened and little things like will forgetting his birthday) and the overall plot is all over the place (the only decent storyline from s4 is max and Lucas!) Also this season was very predictable such as Henry being 001 and vecna. I immediately caught on which was mostly due to the unnecessary screen time they gave his character. Also one thing I hate the most was the fact that they killed off Eddie. S4 literally revolved around him, so killing him off was the dumbest move ever (like kill off robin please she’s useless) I thought his big hero moment was irrelevant and pointless especially considering he’s a new character and so is Chrissy, so his “I didn’t run away this time” meant nothing to me. Overall the season in my opinion kinda sucks but I’ll still watch season 5 because regardless I do love the show!
Gotta be so boring watching shows from their perspective, knitpicking everything and actively trying to find things to dislike.
LOVED how Max’s run had me alternating from second to second between thinking she’ll make it and thinking she’s about to die!
How could she ever die, she's a main character and fan favorite...
I mostly loved it - I think people are over analyzing and finding critiques just to find them.
That being said, there are definitely changes that would make it BETTER I definitely agree. Less Russia - more kids, less Papa, trim some fat of those extra long episodes etc
Per usual
More actual deaths
Basically the duffer brothers are scared of killing off some of the characters
@@WhyfallinLUVwhenUcanfallasleep
The one change I would make to help the Russia story find purpose would be to have Mike tell El that he loves her. Then she locks into an even battle with Vecna. Then we see Joyce save Hopper from the Demidog, and they start killing stuff. Their killings weaken Vecna which gives El the upper hand. Ties in the purpose of Russia much more.
@@WhyfallinLUVwhenUcanfallasleep Yeah but if they do the fandom will prob get mad and ask the duffer brothers to bring them back
"Could they actually be at a conference? 100%!" Uh, no. Then people, including you, would be like, "this conference feels contrived. It's awfully convenient they need the parents to be gone, and they're at a conference. Maybe the parents should have their own adventure...."
Seriously, she keeps bactracking
"This wasn't necessary" "We didn't need this."
What is with a show or story "needing" something. ST is popcorn entertainment. It expanded the scope leading into the last season... that seems "necessary" to me.
I did not think Max was going to die up until she actually died! Then yes I was in shock.
What really hot me was the kid who plays Lucas he did a superb job when she passed very convincing. Same as Dusty that hit even harder when he told Eddy's Uncle DAMN!! Lump in throat.
I mostly agree but it feels pretty obvious that Max is coming back.
It would of been better if they let her die. It carries emotion. It lets the audience know that these characters CAN die and might in the future. But these characters have plot armor and can’t die. So there are no stakes.
@@The_Irish_Rover I know right I almost thought Netflix finally had the balls 🏀🏀 to kill off main character and nope brought back from death. That's some very thick plot armor right there!!
@@The_Irish_Rover original Star Wars trilogy zero stakes no main hero dies. Right?
Lucas made me sob worse than Eleven did when Hopper “died”. That was an amazing scene.
Is she really complaining about the finale being too long after Disney keeps rolling out these incoherently rushed 30-minute episodes that miss the mark week after week (with a few exceptions)?
I love Screen Crush to listen to Ryan give his take on stuff with the occasional sass from Doug. These panel discussions however, they always bore me to pieces
They bore me too. They're pointless. I just want to watch Ryan and Dog's take on shows. I don't like the discussion panel.
Couldn't agree more! Feels boring and fake, like they know they can't have 3 people agreeing so they "invent" some opposition/conflict
People talk about exposition like it’s the absolute worst in bad writing…. But in a show that has lots of questions and answers, how else is all this stuff supposed to be explained so the fans are satisfied? Exposition/flashbacks is fine when it’s done well and I thought the One/Vecna actor delivered it all extremely well.
And he was super creepy about it too! Could it have been shorter? You can make anything shorter, that's the easy part.
Show more than just tell us
@@MichaelNgTzeWei Well I think they did. They mixed exposition with the flashbacks. It's not like he sat Eleven in a chair and talked to her for 45 minutes. I personally didn't feel like there was much "dead air" in any of the episodes. They kept the story moving forward, everything built on what had come before. Its OK if someone explains the how and why of it as you go along.
The epiphany monologs Was the writers acknowledging a trope of cinema the epiphany of self awareness quickly followed by the character's death. They gave every character a monolog to throw off the scent of who was going to die and who was going to be mortally injured it was actually pretty good.
Maybe. I've felt overall in most media today, writers just don't trust the audience to "get it" anymore, so there's way more exposition than there used to be. Everyone has to monologue and explain what they are thinking and feeling. Then again, I'll never forget when I saw Se7en in theaters as a Freshman (hey man... most people just didn't care back then) with a date (BTW, turns out it was not a good date movie), and then coming out I had to explain the ending to my date. After trying again for the second time I noticed that about 7 other people were standing around and listening and some stranger just randomly asked a follow up question (the comments section in the 90s was in person). So maybe today's writers are onto something.
The complaints about “flashbacks” especially from the lady. Are STUPID. It was great. This season was fantastic
I couldn’t agree more. Idk what she’s thinking. Those scenes were great.
She doesn’t have two brain cells to rub together. Just a terrible take.
I would have been happy with just your review. I didn't need the other two people. Great season though!
Man that lady was a Debbie downer this season was 🔥
Things that give reason to the Russia plot. In the 80's not only was it the Cold War but we were conscious of the fact that the Russian people were not really different than us and it was something that really did play into our psyche. So Hopper and Enzo talking about their kids and realizing they are both just Dad's. And it doesn't matter where you live, the human experience is not all that much different. 2. We learned for the first time about Hopper's guilt over his daughter's death and thinking he was the cause due to his exposure to chemicals in Vietnam. This is was NEW information that helped us understand his character. 3. JOPPER JOPPER JOPPER...we wanted to finally see them fighting for each other instead of just fighting with each other. I could say more, but I won't.
The Vecna reveal was not a retcon, Gaten basically gave this away in a s1 interview - they were planning this the whole time
In that interview, he was referring to his favorite fan theory, not any confirmation of him knowing what was going to happen with the actual story.
@@hersheybarber1424 even still, there’s a reason why they never showed 001 before
@@YungBenGriffey I agree. I'm not saying they retconned it by any means, but the interview was about fan theories. I assume they at least had it laid out after they wrote or released season 1.
It is a retcon. Vecna could have easily killed the cast from the Creel house in the UD at any point in the series. Even if he couldn't open the gates yet, he could have taken out his enemies before they could get stronger. Many plot holes
@@joetyrant4713 incorrect, he couldn’t reach from one dimension into the other until he got Eleven’s powers in the s3 finale
lol who is Lewis???? come on Ryan it's Lucas, Lucas, Lucas !
Louis = Lucas ... got it
Please don't just try to find the faults by ignoring the brilliance of the series...
If someone doesn't like it, the they don't like it. Let them not like it then demanding that they must like it because you do.
She didn’t like the last 3 episodes, then her commentary here is no longer needed. Some people feel the need to be the smartest people in the room. She can’t even context her own thoughts.
Stranger Things isn’t a perfect show but the fact that y’all will go hard on its criticisms but let something like Obi-Wan get off free is hilarious.
Exactly what I was thinking
Luckily I hated obi wan
agreed! Obi Wan was insulting but it gets a pass for some reason.
What?! Obi wan was good but it had so much criticism, little Leia, reva. People lost their minds.
Exactly
The whole Mike & Will thing is A lil Off to me honestly ..
Honestly, I liked those large episodes. Before series were too short. 40-50 minutes can’t explain and cover everything and everyone that happens, so movies were better then. Now i think I’m starting to prefer series more. Having nine episodes with so much time felt really good. I’d like to see Doctor strange: MOM this way.
I agree, why are people complaining about more content? It’s kinda wack.
Lord, she couldn’t get a sentence out without sounding like she was making something up just to say it. This season was so much better than they give credit for. Enjoy it, stop watching it just to find things to hate. You take the joy from watching from yourself. It’s just so cringe to be a contrarian here. These kids are growing into fantastic actors right before our eyes. Just watch and be happy we get to see it happen. The show rocks. I loved the season finale!
Ryan, you absolutely rock, and your hard work, and insight is so so so appreciated. But this video is the first I have have ever rolled my eyes at. I appreciate that Heather has co created 2 of the best new characters in modern Star Wars, but she is so off with her input here. Adam began making sense, but soon went wayward too. I got the impression you disagreed with some of their input, and tried to get them to be a bit more precise, but you were facing a losing battle. They are both so wrong on so many accounts of their 'take' on Season 4. It really stinks of something being so popular that it's more cool to find something wrong, and have an alternate take. We have just witnessed some of the best written, thought out, and performed drama of modern times. We as an audience have shared experiences with every single character here, and are gutted/chuffed for them, and it eats away, a sign of incredible production. When a show leaves you wanting more and more, there can be no bigger compliment. The Duffer Brothers are truly talented, and I look forward to what they do in the future.
In short, your Co Contributors have given a really lazy take on an amazing Season 4. (Literally) Millions of us can't be wrong.
Keep up your amazing work Ryan. ❤
The answer to the thumbnail is...no
Season 4 is goated and I will not hear otherwise.
They should have stopped at s1
@@matt-xz7ir why
@@ScriptWriter66 idk after s1 it started to become more and more like the basic netflix shows, i just miss the old kids on bikes solving mysteries, also with the progress of the show more and more is getring explained which takes alot away from the suspense of cosmic horror which was before personified in the upside down imo.
@@matt-xz7ir no
I LOVED the season and it was such a different experience .. but i like when YOU break this stuff down not to be rude when anyone else is on the videos with you i just really relate to your style oppose to anyone else telling me about the shows and breakdowns/ easter eggs
I agree! I am really disappointed in this video. I would rather hear Ryan talk about the season. For such a great season it was so disappointing to hear these 2 guests tear it apart 😡
Why is Adam Lance Garcia hanging out in his grandma’s room? Is that random gallon jug of vinegar behind him?
K I'm 40, having said that vecna was the bad guy I've been waiting for
The monologue is a very 80s thing and I thought was initially used by the Duffer Brothers. Personally, I loved it and felt like it belonged with the overall feel of the show.
Heathers complaint about Lucas’s arc not being necessary because his character hasn’t been explored in depth in previous seasons… I just do not understand this line of thinking? I think it was his time to take on a bigger role and honestly thought it worked really well and the actor knocked it out if the park especially at the end. Idk as soon as I heard her say this I couldn’t take any of her other criticisms seriously. Talk about nit picky
Fr tho. I thought it actually was necessary we haven’t seen enough from Lucas.
too long? bloated?! who tf said that??!
despite your critique (which i completely disagree with) you have to admit, this season brought up some genuine emotion and i feel so connected to the cast at this point that i will go back and watch the season again very soon (through the lens of knowing what ultimately happens). cheers to the cast, producers, directors and writers for coming up with a genuinely heart-warming and terrifying ride. i bet stephen king loves it.
Lol yall writers are so hung up on narrative devices imo. You know how the sausage gets made and that gives you a certain perspective the rest of us dont have. I had no complaints personally
I thoroughly enjoyed the story… and Lucas’s story, he’s had a lot over the seasons and the show would be lesser without it. I also think the finale length was perfect and a sign of what shows can be now. How many multi-part finales have we had? From Community to Doctor Who it’s common. But they’ve always been broken apart because of time slot restraints. In S4 we got to see a multi-part finale as a whole, edited and paced to be as compelling as possible instead of trying to hit conclusions each episode and having to restart. It’s a trend I hope to see a lot more of. I think the One/Vecna reveal regrounded the series to being Hawkins centric. It all comes back to Brenner and brings new fresh questions back to the origins. I didn’t think it felt forced, I think it felt like they had a concise story they wanted to tell to tie everything together and bring new gravity to the series. And lastly it felt honest to its 80’s roots down to the story telling. Classic villains in horror monologuing. It’s an homage and I’m glad they didn’t try to reinvent the wheel which would go against the voice this show has had all along.
I really enjoyed the 2.5 hr finale. Did anyone else not enjoy that aspect like the lady in this video?
All ima say is if you can write a better ending or season pls be my guest.
So did no one else hear him call him lewis not lucas .....
I loved seeing Hopper using the Atlantean sword from Conan the Barbarian, nice little understated 80's reference.
She lost me at "Was Lucas story necessary?" Really? Is any story necessary? They did a wonderful job with his character and the actor grew so much he really sold every scene he was in
Season 4 was amazing. I disagree with Lucas’s arc wasnt necessary . It directly correlates with max . Lucas realized what’s important and it essential helped save max, I know El revived her but at Max’s final moment , she realized she wasn’t ready to die . Lucas helped her realize that through his own inner awakening . He’s still a main character and so important
That Heather girl has no idea what’s she’s talking about.
She's complaining that the villain had intentions rather than "I want to kill" lmao.
This season 4 of Stranger Things had 100 times better writing then Star Wars The Lost Jedi. Oh I meant Loser Jedi, oops Last Jedi.
Ryan I truly love your channel, your breakdowns, theories and your bromance with Heavy Spoilers. But these two guests? Man, this season of STs is one of the best seasons of any show, and they are trashing it? Lol Not much of real experts here, just people who feel like they have to critique something to feel like they are doing their job.
This season was a masterpiece, with Letter to Billy being probably the best episode of the series, and the 001 reveal scene making that episode a close second. And these guys critique is that they didn't need a big bad, or episodes were too long and explain too much? Lol please don't bring these two ever again. Instead make a collaboration with Heavy Spoilers, as that would be epic!
I agree I watch Screen Crush and Heavy Spoilers and love them both. Not feeling these Guest Host, the series episodes where too long, we didn't need a big bad, what? Vecna is the best villain.
The woman speaking is a fan of Disney+ she looks her shows short and all over the place.. but fun & cute 😂
the way you guys geek out for everything marvel but critique this so heavily is funny.. stranger things s4 was awesome.
Completely agree. It was kinda annoying to watch
Haven't really heard from anyone that they didn't like it.
Just tv/movie snobs are nitpicking. lol
Cause you know everyone?
I don’t understand a lot of the criticisms. Okay, maybe I wanted to get out of Russia. But I don’t know what kind of perfection people expect. Do you want a show at all? If you want perfect realism go live your life. Some of us like fantastical escapism where you can suspend disbelief and understand that there’s a story being told, so the villain is gonna explain his plan. It’s fine. The absolute negativity towards this show is baffling to me when I feel like I watched something that I feel like not even movies can do because you can’t sit in a theater for 4+ hours. I love this channel but I’m clicking out of this episode.
I total agree
What’s wrong with people expressing their opinion and criticising things? Stop crying and take your own advice. You do you and let other do themselves.
@@manavbhalla2861Lmao if you really believe that statement. I don’t think would have added it under this persons comment. They’re expressing an opposing view to the criticism in this video and sharing their opinions (they’re essentially criticizing the video). I think they’re allowed to do that….it’s not like they just wrote a paragraph of insults.
@@moptop4355 it seems to me that they are criticising that fact that the video is about criticism of the show or ‘negativity’ according to them.
@@manavbhalla2861 yeah, and I see no problem with that. If that’s what they interpret from the video. I guess they’re allowed to express it. Maybe just agree to disagree.
what the hell why does he keep calling him Lewis???
Season 4 was easily the best season since the first. After season 3, I thought maybe the writers had run out of material, but I was pleasantly surprised with season 4. I really enjoyed it. RIP Eddie.
“We didn’t need to see him change and get his powers” uh why not? I would want to see why someone goes from normal looking to monster.
Vecna had been best villain of the series so far.
Personally I thought this season was the best of the show besides mayyybe season 1
this season was better than 95% of the other stuff airing in tv or streaming. i was disappointed in the end but still loved every second of it.
I LOVED the season. I didn't mind that the episodes were long, I enjoyed every moment.
Idk how someone can consider that a bad thing. It’s not like it was boring at times. Always good to have more content
Personally S2 was my weak point, S3 I enjoy more, and 4 was great.
Ryan you need better guests. These folks are coming in and clearly winging it. They clearly did not put nearly as much thought into their critique and it shows
I felt the same way. Claiming Lucas and the Hopper story lines were not needed shows how little they paid attention. Hopper needs to come back for El to have a support system…Hopper can’t just appear with no explanation as to how he got back. We would all be frustrated and claim lazy writing if he came back and there was a quick flashback with exposition as to how he got back. That would be lazy writing. And Lucas…Lucas and Max’s relationship is important. It is how two people are supposed to communicate when one person is struggling with depression. I felt it was a great way to show case how to help a loved one through grief and depression. Max was obviously not around El, the only other person she could talk to, and Lucas and Max love one another. The criticism from Ryan’s guests was just lazy.
I agreed with most of what the guests said. They made valid points. Now you are free to disagree with me and their points but let’s not use logical fallacies to make your case.
no offense but who are these geeks this season was so good
I don't understand the issue with the flashback sequences. This was a fantastic season. I love the veil being pulled away to show us what's been there all along. We needed/deserved to see how it started and understand that Henrry was the architect of the upside down as we know it. Leave this show alone lol
it's funny to see how they defend everything about obi wan and criticize every aspect of stranger things 🤷🏻
A ton of nightmare on elm street vibes this season
What they said at the end about "if they done it in 1 episode" reminded me of the side story from season 2 about the other girl with power
They literally did that into a single side episode and almost everyone hated it and felt it was disconnected from the rest of the show, so asking to do that again and thinking it might be good makes me doubt a little about how these people perceived this season 4
And it ends up being and feel like "I don't like this type of storytelling so it's meh" rather than something else
Finally!!! I’ve been dying for your take on this season!!!
I thought the whole season was great, the finale was a bit too bloated at 2 hours 30.
I think they could have cut 30 minutes without losing any of the drama or story and it would have felt more exciting.
What didn't work: Will, Mike and Jonathan
What worked: Everything else
Loved this season, it had a few draggy moments, but 9 for me!
Super draggy I fell asleep second to last episode and I hardly ever do that
@@john8062 Hope you can get more sleep.
@@ryandailey I did because it was so boring.
My man... You called Lucas by the name of Louis and that dont sit right with me. LMAO.
I loved it, still not over Eddie.
I do think if he hadn’t done what he did then the demobats could have been unleashed on Hawkins starting with Dustin since the gate there has been torn wide open.
Weird hearing these takes. I thought it was the strongest season since season 1. One of the best seasons of television in the last 5 years. "In no world can you justify a 2 hour finale that can't stand-up as a standalone film" really? You can't justify that? It's on Netflix. We all binged the first half of the season anyways? What's the difference in putting unnecessary stops and starts in there. Just let it play out. If you have an issue with the pacing that's one thing, but to open with "in no world can you justify it" you make it sound like the pacing could be perfect and you just wouldn't like it cuz it's long.
It was a great finale... getting a little click baity Ryan
“Evil Eleven” exactly what I don’t like about Vecna. It’s so tropey/stereotypical to make the bad guy just a evil version of the good guy
Now that I've had time to think about and digest Eddy's death I now think I know why he sacrificed himself even though he didn't save anyone or really buy any time. I believe he did so because he knew there was no way of convincing the police and or public that he did not kill Chrissy or anyone else. It's just far too supernatural for anyone to believe realistically so without killing himself he sacrificed himself trying to do some good knowing there was no way to go back to normal. I don't know it may be a stretch I just want don't want to believe the way he died trying to sacrifice himself to save no one.
That's what I was thinking. The fact that they're still defacing his missing poster shows he's still public enemy 1
But I’m pretty sure he ran because the demobats where gonna go through the portal and get into Hawkings or at least go after Dustin, I’m pretty sure that’s what is implied would have happened
I loved this season.
Was it perfect? No, but no show is. I enjoyed all the different plot lines and story ideas. I didn't mind the lengthy episodes or the long finale. I actually felt like things flowed well and didn't feel like I was watching a long episode.
Eddie (may he rest in piece) didn't go with Dustin because the bat's would have followed them into our world since the barrier was broken through the gate in the trailer.
Loved the Vecna plotline. I don't mind the villain having a name. Doesn't takes away anything. Definitely not in the same wavelength as Palpatine returning in the Sequels.
Agreed!
The fact that they repeated that Palpatine scene three times in the video was obnoxious.
On the point that some of the sub-plots could have been skipped and it wouldn't have impacted the story, I completely disagree. My absolute favourite thing about Stranger Things is that they set up for future seasons very naturally, I'm confident that everything in this season was intentional considering the next season will be the last.
Ryan, I need to congratulate you. You finally did the impossible. You found a guest with an even MORE dumbfounding, exasperating, missed-the-point perspective than Adam Lance Garcia. S4 Stranger Things was the most exhilarating, emotional, badass content I’ve seen probably since Endgame. Watching Ryan debate these 2 reminded me of the Neverending Story scene where Artex is choosing to sink into the mud of sadness while Atreyu desperately tries to pull him out. I’ve only ever seen 1 or 2 guests on this type of vid that actually get it and these 2 here are THE WORST. I fear people like this becoming execs at studios.
I very strongly disagree with the first guest, it felt like she was looking for reasons the show could have been more concise.... and I can't help but feel that's an entirely subjective thing. Giving a character like Lucas a strong arc this season felt deserved because he hadn't had his turn in the spotlight yet (compared to some of the rest of the cast), so I don't quite follow when she uses his lack of development in the past as a reason to not develop him in this season. I have many more problems with her analysis, but I don't wanna just sound like I'm crapping on her opinions.
what is wrong with Lucas wanting to have more than one group of freinds? Again, it seems like the show is pulling a blanket over your eyes by making it seem that he has to chose. While he in no way does. He doesnt turn his back on his freinds. If anything they turn his back on him. A State Championship game that happens once a year, is obviosly more important than a weekly DnD game. People can both love playing basketball and DnD, but the show makes it seem like you can only have one social group and one social activity you can (must) like.
Not in the 80's they can't lol
I love Ryan’s commentary, but I will say it doesn’t sound like anyone has listened to what the Duffers have said. Vecna isn’t a retcon, they stated that the overall vision has been in place for years. They work out the nuances as they go, but my understanding of what the brothers said is that this has been planned. Also, personally it felt like it all fits perfectly. It makes the other villains make more sense when we see the greater purpose and origin.
Max's scene at the graveyard from start to finish was the best scene in season 4.
Did i completely misunderstand the Russia thing? Wasn't it implied that burning the creatures in Russia was the single reason the tentacles retracted and released Steve Nancy and robin? And why the bats stopped attacking Eddie and didn't attack Dustin? Wasn't that the direct implication? Killing the monsters in Russia the hive mind was hurt long enough for the kids to be successful? Obviously the timing is extremely convieniant but that's what it is
Your guest bummed me out...But hey the guy liked/loved The Last Jedi, so there's that!!
This video makes me realize we have entirely too many critics on RUclips. Sorry screencrush but I feel like these people need something to criticize. I don’t enjoy when you bring in other “critics”. Stick to your Easter eggs because you’re awesome.
Thank you for having people with different opinions than yours. Previous episodes like this were just three people gushing over the show.
I feel sorry for you guys having to watch everything as "seeing the sausage being made"...those of us who just enjoy pure entertainment and love to see all these characters, LOVED it. Sure I personally could have done with less Papa, but others may really like that. I think the Duffer Brothers are making a show that appeals broadly. My .02.
I really like this channel but this episode was such a downer on the series. wow