Onion theory has solid layers ✌️ Also did they inadvertently make a way to clone items? Double up on inventory! Two Guitars! Hypothetically the upsidedown can save everyone by doubling up on resources. (Grabs a version of my computer from the upsidedown for extra parts 😂)
FINALLY! A theory that doesn’t falsely rearrange details! A theory that actually uses logic to connect all of the details known thus far! This is a really solid theory, and it does a great job at putting the different dimensions into perspective. I thought I was the only one who was convinced that the upside down, Vecna’s lair, and the place which he was first banished to weren’t the same.
Great theory. But I don't think it explains the creatures Vecna found when he first entered the alternate world. He explained the realm was "unspoiled by mankind" and that he "saw so many things". The creatures were physical in nature and according to some spoilers for the 5th season...they have a pecking order. Vecna may have shaped or merged with this new realm, but there was something already there when he landed in it.
Could be just me but despite what is implied visually during Vecna explaining his back story I took the flesh being torn off him as he entered meant he was responsible for introducing organic life to the upside down - just a thought - he’s the daddy to demogorgons demodogs etc
Just FYI...in an interview with the Duffer Brothers they said we would not be getting all the info on the Upside Down THIS season but it will be fully explored and explained in Season 5.
I think we always have to listen to Dustin in this show. Every theory or explanation that Dustin has had within the show has been right. He says that the mind flayer is the main “big” bad and refers to Vecna as a 5 star general and the demagorgan as the foot soldier. He seems to always be right so I’m not sure that lines up with this theory. Either way it’s awesome to speculate.
I completely agree with you and I think you’re absolutely right. As much as I love Ryan’s breakdowns and explanations, I really think he’s wrong on this one. Just basing what we know from What Dustin has said, Vecna is NOT the BIG BAD of Stranger Things. The Mind Flayer is. So far, every season EXCEPT this current one, the Mind Flayer has been the main threat who’s been pulling all the major strings. I’m still basing my opinion from Dustin’s personal explanation and with that being said, it’s only now within the current season that Vecna’s power grew strong enough to actually affect the physical world. The Mind Flayer is using Vecna’s abilities to further his goal of finally being able to enter our plane of existence by using all of the portals/gates that Vecna opened through the death of his victims. The Mind Flayer will always be the main Big Bad of the show and I’m sure we will see this as the fourth season comes to its conclusion and inevitable closure. This season may be about Vecna and the threat he poses but make no mistake, season Five will be all about the Mind Flayer and the final showdown between our world and the encroaching presence/ melding of our plane and the Upside Down.
I guess this time the duffer brothers are trying to distract us. Vecna can control minds of people in Hawkins when he is not physically present whereas the mind flayer like in season 2 at the best could only access them and I feel that Duffer brothers would like to bring a stronger villain each season .Now I feel that it will mostly be a symbiotic relationship where Vecna has to open portals and the mind flayer would provide him with the necessary power to fulfil his wish
I think the reason so many Vecna theories have really emerged is because the Mind Flayer feels like a character we've explored enough now, so people think he couldn't be the biggest bad because it's not a big bad if you know everything about him or he feels Stale I guess? But in reality there is so much we can still explore about Sir Flaysalot, but yeah I agree with you chappo
But he wasn’t? Vecna shows that the reason el lost her powers was from the piece of the meat puppet in her leg as he said he needed her powers (to open portals) and showed her trying to move the car and failing. The first place Vecna falls isn’t his mind scape, it’s just a random rocky plain where demogorgons and the mind flayer particles already exist. Henry liked spiders because they were predators and he felt they reflected his world view. Only thing he was right about was his final statement
@@charlesroberts-moses6074 no, he was right if they’re talking about that 30 second long snippet from the end of the other “explained” video for part one… he makes a quick prediction at the end that Vecna and his minions will win.. and the final scene will show Vecna’s army moving into Hawkins.
I love this theory, and can't wait to see how it stacks up against whatever we learn in the season finale. The only thing I'm not sure I agree with is the question of where Vecna's physical form is. From what I remember, there are scenes where we see him hunting for or actively interacting with his victims, intercut with images of him suspended by the vine-things in his back. I took that to mean his physical body is in the Upside-Down version of his childhood home, physically "wired" into the Upside-Down's sort of neural network, and he's using it to project himself into the minds of his victims. When Max ends up in the red mist mind-palace he has going on, my take on that scene was that she'd stumbled onto the mind-link Vecna had made with her and followed it backwards into *his* mind. When we see Nancy walking around that same environment in ep 7, I thought that time he'd purposefully done it-although I have to admit I can't see why he elected to show her his Tragic Childhood Backstory. But given One's Epic Villain Monologue clocks in at just under ten minutes long, he clearly has a habit of oversharing. (No shade meant for Jamie Bower, dude delivered the *hell* out of that speech and I loved every second of it.) Ugh, now you're gonna make me rewatch this season so I can think about this some more!
Agreed! These are my thoughts, exactly. It explains why he seemed surprised and a little alarmed when he asks Max something like “why are you in here?” Or “how did you get in here?” I agree with you about the speech to Nancy, too. I don’t know why he would tell Nancy his origin story except for that he knows she is curious about him and maybe that made him feel important and “seen” - But I didn’t like that such an otherwise interesting villain had to suffer from the typical bad guy cliche of the “here’s my backstory” and “here is my dastardly plan” exposition scene. That part disappointed me. It wasn’t creative and seemed out of place. I think they could have figured out a much better way to express the backstory that would not have been as cliche and corny.
@@toddkilber1971 Yeah, I mean, the dude has the makings of a serial killer. He tortured and killed animals to see what would happen, justifies his behavior as some kind of sign from on high that he alone was meant to "cleanse" the world, victimizes himself by telling others that they made him do it, and wants everyone to know his grand plan. He's not wrong that Earth is full of oppressors and people "just following orders" but he nevertheless became an oppressor anyway. If this was a regular drama, he'd be Ted Bundy.
This theory says Vecna created the Demogorgons but didn't they already exist in the upside down when he got there? I could have swore I saw then just chillin there when he arrived.
Vecna said in the last episode that he didn't have the ability to open up gates between the upside down and real world. He said he stole that ability from Eleven
I feel like Will went from Plan A to Plan B (or a contingency or backup plan) since first being abducted and pulled into the Upside Down. Like Vecna was going to use him in some way. Bc he mentioned in a previous season the Mindflayer wanted to kill everyone but Will. Maybe will had a natural ability like Vecna and when he possessed him he took it, like how he took 11's ability to open portals. But now Will is a back up. We don't know if Vecna left something locked up in Will's mind, like a piece of himself or something to use later or, again, a backup.
Great theory… side note… in the show we are only a month away from Chernobyl… I would love if the season ends or if the Russians accidentally rip a gate between worlds at the site that cause problems for everyone causing Vecna to “win” to finish the season, or the final clash causes a gate there since hopper and them are in russia
It's an interesting theory, and Stranger Things is all about cold war and parodies of both sides. Justifying what happened to Cherbobyl must happen carefully, everything that happened there was due to the corruption and the inefficiency of the russian system and that shouldn't be forgotten or manipulated in any way, not to cause any misinformation. But using that event as a trigger for a bigger catastrophy, and maybe having it still being due to the arrogance of the russian government would be cool. Even though no serious historical event was told in this series, and talking about only one would mean probably deaming it. Interesting idea though
You know in real life, the locals of Chernobyl reporting seeing strange creatures before and after the reactor ☢️ 🚨💥exploded. Most notably the mothman 🦟 especially 😬 true story not making this up! 😳😨
I cant believe nobody caught the Nightmare on Elm St Easter egg of the 'adults' going to the big bads lair to burn them alive. This is how Freddy was originally created. I bet Heavy Spoilers steals this
they should do a "tales of the upside down" show like love death robots, masters of horror or vhs. give a bunch of directors free reign to go where ever they want to explore the stories of people who went there.
I believe it’s the mix flayer who’s in control. The upside down was just raw energy, but with each Strong connection the upside down grows. Which is why the mindflayer is so fixed on our world. So the last strong connection the upside down had was with Will. Which is why it’s stuck in 1983. Maybe when the Russia gang release the mindflayer in vol 2 the mindflayer could connect with someone, inadvertently changing the upside down whilst the Hawkins gang are still inside it.
I’ve been waiting for you to do a video on the new season of Stranger Things and you did not disappoint. This is seriously brilliant and if this is what the Duffer brothers are doing then I have even more respect for them.
This theory implies that 001 is the final boss, but I don't think that's the case. They are usina Classic monster from D&D and, dragons aside, we're still missing one monster that I'm betting will be the final boss in season 5... The Beholder! I have 0 hints of that, but I know in my heart
Aw, I miss Fringe. Also, it’s atoms themselves that are largely empty, with a teeny tiny nucleus surrounded by electron valences waaay out, comparatively speaking.
Is it possible that Henry’s powers come from his fathers time in the war? Because hopper mentioned birth defects in the children of those who fought in the war (and were exposed to chemical warfare) and connected that to his daughter cancer. It seems like that was the set up as to why Henry has powers, like they’re some sort of “defect”.
I’m really glad Eddie had the exact same guitar hanging in the same spot and the same amount of amps 3 years earlier. That distraction wouldn’t have been nearly as badass if he was going through his folk days in ‘83 and had an acoustic hanging
Interesting theory, but there's an incorrect fact in your premise. El didn't open/create a gate to the upside at the same time Will went missing (by going into the upsidedown). El made the gate sending Nō1 to the upside down. Then later the first demigorgan appeared to transverse to and from the upsidedown; and then some time after that Will entered the upsidedown.
As we can see from the trailer for the rest of the season, El closed the gate after 1 went through. And then it was when she touched the demigorgon that the gate from season 1 opened. And it seems that was the day Will was taken by the demigorgon.
Came here to comment this! And just to add to your thought after El sends 001 through the portal, that is the first time we see any connection made to the upside down. Then in their testing of El that they say is for locating anyone in the world when in reality they're most likely trying to reconnect with wherever she sent 001. That's when she connects with the demigorgan reopening whatever kind of connection needed to the upside down that allows the demigorgan to go through and eventually kidnap will. I think the demigorgans were just the first attempt to kidnap people so Vecna could build his psychic connection now he's strong enough to do it himself.
@@martinerzpropersonally i don't think that everything in the upsidedown is an extension of Vecna. The first demigorgan was hunting and strongly attracted the the scent of blood (if memory serves), and there was the demidog that rissited the hive mind. Besides I don't like the idea from a world building view.
@@damientom oh I agree. I don't think Vecna created the upside either but he would certainly use the inhabitants to do his bidding. Once he was trapped there by El I think his arrogance of being sent there by someone more powerful would be his motivation for trying to get back. Psychically connecting to any creature he can to build his connection maybe. So even if the demigorgan was hunting with the scent of blood we have already heard Vecna take credit for Barb's death which would only make sense if he was psychically connected to it already.
That's not how the God Particle works or what it is. All Higgs-Boson particle does is give mass to things that pass through it's field. It's not a force that can push particles either.
didn't Dustin call Vecna "Midflayer's 5 star general"? So that implies Vecna's submission to the Mindflayer. Furthermore, in season 2, they say that the Mindflayer travels across dimensions enslaving them, which again would imply Mindflayer's seniority.
Yes to at least the first part for sure but Dustin could be wrong … isn’t it strange that things line up to D&D? Maybe it’s BECAUSE #1 designed it in the image of something he was familiar with?
I honestly prefer the idea of a Lovecraftian being of uncomprihensible nature being the one in command but it does make sense that Vecna is actually the puppet master, it favors the world building
I still think 001’s mom had powers. She knew it was him haunting them, and she even had music playing at the dinner where he killed her until he stops the record from playing
Yes 100%. He said he saw his parents for who they truly were, that they were flawed and immoral. But he never explained what his mom did. I think her backstory will be a crucial piece of information in Vecna's arc and in explaining the kids powers.
I think maybe his mom had an affair with Dr. Brenner. He had powers but lost them or they are not strong. That is why Brenner is so into this research and that is how Henry’s mom knew to contact Brenner about Henry once the powers in him emerged. This is the terrible thing the mom did that he held up to her. He used his powers to remind her that she betrayed the father (whom he more or less views easily duped and simple) and that she continues to lie to the family and thinks she can turn Henry over to Brenner to control him. He wants her to suffer the consequences of her actions and also let her know that her expectations are not going to happen if he has anything to say about it. I am not 100% sold on this idea, but it would explain a lot. I still have an open mind about how it all will play out and I hope it all resolves in an interesting way.
Why are Vecna victim's corpses both in the normal world and the upside down? Since they're no longer alive they are considered inanimate objects so the upside down can make replicas?
This theory went from "guy on the subway" to "guy on the Nobel dais" in record time. The Duffers have said most of the Upside Down lore is in season 5 though. Here's to hoping they come through in a big way!
Fringe may be an influence, but the Duffer Brothers have definitely mentioned Elfen Lied. Also the irl government experiments with psychics during the cold war are obviously referenced. And mkultra.
i think things existed in the upside down before but while wondering he found a way to connect to the things that exist and then connect those things to each other. the form of the upside-down is mailable because its partly or mostly a plane of the mind. its also established that 1 steals a part of the ones he kills so he would be doing the same in the upside-down. taking things that already exist and fusing them with himself.
I love and agree with most of this theory, but they mentioned that Vecna is a general, as in a guy in charge, but not THE guy in charge. I still think they have one more season after this one in July that’ll cap it all.
That IS true, but remember this was said before the kids knew really anything about 001. Though in the context of a series, the scene was given too much attention for it to not hold some water, if not, it would be a bit strange
@@FishyGuy he is not being used by the mind flayer, he gave the mist monster a form, a form similar to a spider/mantis creature. Vecna is pulling the strings.
One issue with this Theory. It assumes that the kids are wrong when they describe Vecna as the mind flayers 5 star general. Obviously it is possible for the kids to be wrong, but so far in the show the trend is that if the kids figure something out it is cannon. So in season four the kids are still considering the mind flayer as the one in charge and vecna as beneath him. In this Theory you make Vecna to be the one in charge.
Didnt they already kinda establish that 1/Vecnar is "only" a "general" and therefor servant of the mind flayer ? I like your theory and I believe they will go into this kinda direction, since its a more "grounded" scifi, meaning it wont just be like 'woohoo its magic'. I just think you're not quite there yet with this theory.
i was caught up on this too but im starting to think that the character's were just wrong or did not know enough about vecna yet when they said that. maybe not though, im excited to see!
Dustin did say that, but it also was a recurring theme this season that he is not always right. Example is when he was wrong about the kissing rock location or whatever it was called and the others kinda check him in that he is not always right
2 года назад+11
That was Dustin's theory, he has tended to be partially wrong in these past few episodes, his guesses always miss some crucial detail or extra twist so they might revisit that later to show that maybe the relationship between the mindflayer and vecna is not as they thought. Personally I would like more if it is that the mindflayer or some other entity is the one calling shots and using Vecna to try and open a gateway to our world and the upside down is just a parallel dimension, almost exactly like ours, that just happened to be overrun by extradimensional beings.
@@shnc27 this seems likely to me. Dustin is going to be wrong here about something major. They spent a bunch of time establishing him as in need of an ego check and having always been right on the money
i believe Dustin´s statement is a subtle hint from the writers, that there is more to come in Season 5. So yeah, Vecna is not the ultimate evil in this, just a vessel.
Everyone seems to have missed that Vecna and the upside down is super similar to Aizen and Hueco Mundo in the anime Bleach. Aizen finds another dimension, creates an army from creatures he finds there, they attack they human world through cracks in space and time.
Late to the party here... I have a comment/thought/question about when Vecna/Henry/1 was explaining what happened when he was first transported to the "upside down." To me is looked like what earth would have looked in its earliest phase of being a planet (4.5 billion or so years ago). I found this interesting yet, nobody is really talking about it. Also, he commented on that he thought he was sent to hell and to us that's how we would possibly imagine what hell would look like. Could this be the origin of where humans came up with, not the concept of hell, but rather somebodies first hand account of this place? Maybe somebody, thousands of years ago went to the "upside down" and that story has been passed down through the bible and other religions. I love your interpretation of the creatures and where they came from. Its a messed up version of who came first, the chicken or the egg? My only comment with you saying Henry created them, is the Demogorgon was already there when he first got there. However, I do think he controls them with the "particles" because that's what happened at the Russian prison when the shadow was, "in them." I just don't think he created them, and there's still the question of who/how where they created? I really hope you read this and love your channel. Thanks!
When 011 sent Henry (001) into the upside down/ The Never (The Red energy world you spoke of)…. for that very first time…. She sent him straight through a mirror, pinned him against the wall, then ultimately through it and into “The Never”/ Upside down! I wonder if that is why the upside down is essentially a mirror image of the real Hawkings!?
@2:45 that's what John Travolta said in Phenomenon..... The scene where he is moving the pen or pencil. In theory it's also how people can do super punches like the 1-in punch and stuff like that
OH! and it also makes sense that one of the words we see in the cross word puzzle (which they sort of highlight even) is "etiological" which loosely means origin, cause, reason, and beginning; usually in the context of illness or diseases, but cause of or reason for none the less.
The demigorgon was there when 001 arrived. We see it crawling around when he first arrives. Things were there before him, so something more powerful is probably there
This actually sort of supports my thought that Stranger Things is sort of a retelling of or at least based around the Dante's Inferno tale. God particles, Satan is stuck in Hell, there are several levels of Hell, There are two keys to enter St Peters gate... but before he can, he has to HEAL WOUNDS in his forehead by traveling up the mountain (which makes Running up that Hill SO ridiculously appropriate)... etc. I'm probably over thinking it, but I see a lot of similarities and relations in various different ways.
We have heard several people say over the course of these 4 seasons including vecna himself that the people he killed are not gone they’re still with him in his mind. He has absorbed all of their gifts and is able to use them. I think every one who died, we will see again as an undead soldier of vecna’s army. Dustin said something about the only ones who might be able to help are the undead because they don’t have any brains for vecna to manipulate.
Not trying to hate on your theory, but your particle physics summary is pretty far off-base. We already know that atoms are made of electrons, protons, and neutrons, and we also know that these particles are also made of smaller building blocks called quarks, which as far as we know are the smallest units of matter and energy in our universe. Hadrons (which can be either mesons or baryons) are made up of a small number of quarks, but not enough to build an entire electron, proton, or neutron. If an atom is a house and a quark is a brick, a hadron is like one section of wall. The Higgs boson is a special case: it isn't built out of smaller particles, but it is quite large. It only exists briefly before decaying into a bunch of smaller particles, but it's theorised to be the particle that gives all matter mass. In very basic terms, the universe is built out of energy and matter, and they have to come from somewhere. While most other fundamental particles are packets of different flavours of energy, but the HB is what provides the mass, which gives matter weight and solidity. I am not a physicist by any means, just an avid amateur reader of science, and I've probably made a few mistakes of my own in this comment, but I think it's pretty close to the established theories.
This is great! Thank you for these theories. I have been confused about why the date in ‘dark Hawkins’ was stuck Nov 6th and I was thinking VH1 (Vecna Henry One) had been watching Hawkins, recreated it in the upside down and biding his time, waiting to reach back into the real world. When Eleven accidentally opened it when she encountered the demogorgan, I had figured VH1 had simply stopped recreating and toying with it when he saw his chance to reach through the gate directly. Your ‘photo Hawkins’ theory is WAY WAY better, because it explains how the recreation was ‘then-present-day Hawkins’ which he wouldn’t have known about (having been shut in Hawkins Lab for years, as test subject then ‘friendly orderly’, then ejected to the upside down by Eleven in 1979). But how come the demogorgan and demodogs could come into the real world whilst VH1 couldn’t? He could only ‘come across’ into the minds of his victims, but not physically. How come the monsters can pop through weak spots, where the dimensions are bleeding into each other, but VH1 can’t? That bit, I still don’t get. VH1 was all about making his own gates but in the first 2 seasons, the monsters were coming through physically. If they don’t need an actual ‘gate’, why does he?
can someone tell me, even when 001 was so powerful then how was he in captivity of Dr brenner for so long? and also how did henry acquire the power to control those creatures in the upside down world when eleven threw him in it?
Well folks, I think it’s obvious that the *Upside Down* existed… the creator is *The Witness,* also known as the Entity, or the Voice in the Darkness, is an individual who appears to be the leader of the Black Fleet. It is described by Savathûn, the Witch Queen as a "child of the Darkness," and seems to act as its foremost representative in the physical universe.
I introduced my daughter to Fringe this summer. We just watched S1 EP17. My child screams “Dr.BRINNER!!!!” Her eyes got all wide. She has been making so many comparisons.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
What do you think of our theory?
Could be possible
Geeze, give me a second to watch it... Man your pushy
@@wolfbro82 I’m done watching it
@@arushreedattaram9428 show off
Onion theory has solid layers ✌️
Also did they inadvertently make a way to clone items? Double up on inventory! Two Guitars!
Hypothetically the upsidedown can save everyone by doubling up on resources.
(Grabs a version of my computer from the upsidedown for extra parts 😂)
Here is the problem, When Henry-001, Vecna was banished in the Upside Down, He also sees demo-creatures who had already physical forms.
FINALLY! A theory that doesn’t falsely rearrange details! A theory that actually uses logic to connect all of the details known thus far! This is a really solid theory, and it does a great job at putting the different dimensions into perspective. I thought I was the only one who was convinced that the upside down, Vecna’s lair, and the place which he was first banished to weren’t the same.
And turns out the theory basically hit it dead on the nail.
Great theory. But I don't think it explains the creatures Vecna found when he first entered the alternate world. He explained the realm was "unspoiled by mankind" and that he "saw so many things". The creatures were physical in nature and according to some spoilers for the 5th season...they have a pecking order. Vecna may have shaped or merged with this new realm, but there was something already there when he landed in it.
Or someone had already been their
This video was before the final episodes came out
@@FunkyChicken251 what? no this was revealed in the final ep...
oh, by 'this' you meant ryan's video, ok...
He's no God. People say he "created" the mind flayer. Nope, he merely weaponized it
Could be just me but despite what is implied visually during Vecna explaining his back story I took the flesh being torn off him as he entered meant he was responsible for introducing organic life to the upside down - just a thought - he’s the daddy to demogorgons demodogs etc
Just FYI...in an interview with the Duffer Brothers they said we would not be getting all the info on the Upside Down THIS season but it will be fully explored and explained in Season 5.
@@sairachiodini Yep. That's just season 4 vol. 2. The show is ending in season 5.
Probably haven't thought it all through yet. Quick! Someone send this video to them lmao
I just heard season 5 will be set in the 90’s. So there will be a time jump between seasons I guess.
@@artofficialjoe Wait, according to who? I can't seem to verify this.
@@sairachiodini
Season 5 has been confirmed for like a year now...
I think we always have to listen to Dustin in this show. Every theory or explanation that Dustin has had within the show has been right. He says that the mind flayer is the main “big” bad and refers to Vecna as a 5 star general and the demagorgan as the foot soldier. He seems to always be right so I’m not sure that lines up with this theory. Either way it’s awesome to speculate.
I completely agree with you and I think you’re absolutely right. As much as I love Ryan’s breakdowns and explanations, I really think he’s wrong on this one. Just basing what we know from What Dustin has said, Vecna is NOT the BIG BAD of Stranger Things. The Mind Flayer is. So far, every season EXCEPT this current one, the Mind Flayer has been the main threat who’s been pulling all the major strings. I’m still basing my opinion from Dustin’s personal explanation and with that being said, it’s only now within the current season that Vecna’s power grew strong enough to actually affect the physical world. The Mind Flayer is using Vecna’s abilities to further his goal of finally being able to enter our plane of existence by using all of the portals/gates that Vecna opened through the death of his victims. The Mind Flayer will always be the main Big Bad of the show and I’m sure we will see this as the fourth season comes to its conclusion and inevitable closure. This season may be about Vecna and the threat he poses but make no mistake, season Five will be all about the Mind Flayer and the final showdown between our world and the encroaching presence/ melding of our plane and the Upside Down.
@@archangel5627 that’s what I think as well but we shall see. 🙌🏻
I agree it doesn't line up and Dustin is right Vcna may be season 4 and final boss of upside down season 5.
I guess this time the duffer brothers are trying to distract us. Vecna can control minds of people in Hawkins when he is not physically present whereas the mind flayer like in season 2 at the best could only access them and I feel that Duffer brothers would like to bring a stronger villain each season .Now I feel that it will mostly be a symbiotic relationship where Vecna has to open portals and the mind flayer would provide him with the necessary power to fulfil his wish
I think the reason so many Vecna theories have really emerged is because the Mind Flayer feels like a character we've explored enough now, so people think he couldn't be the biggest bad because it's not a big bad if you know everything about him or he feels Stale I guess? But in reality there is so much we can still explore about Sir Flaysalot, but yeah I agree with you chappo
This might be one of the most batshit crazy theories I've ever heard about Stranger Things. I love it!
I guess we'll find out tonight.
nobody’s talking about how this guy was literally spot on for the ending of season 4
My thoughts.
Which vid
But he wasn’t? Vecna shows that the reason el lost her powers was from the piece of the meat puppet in her leg as he said he needed her powers (to open portals) and showed her trying to move the car and failing. The first place Vecna falls isn’t his mind scape, it’s just a random rocky plain where demogorgons and the mind flayer particles already exist. Henry liked spiders because they were predators and he felt they reflected his world view. Only thing he was right about was his final statement
@@charlesroberts-moses6074 no, he was right if they’re talking about that 30 second long snippet from the end of the other “explained” video for part one… he makes a quick prediction at the end that Vecna and his minions will win.. and the final scene will show Vecna’s army moving into Hawkins.
@@charlesroberts-moses6074 reread my comment. I said the *ending*. He predicted that monsters would flood the city.
10:00 I agree with this heavily! When 001 fell into the portal it was very similar to the depiction of Lucifer’s fall
This is my favorite video you've produced. Absolutely beautiful work!
I love this theory, and can't wait to see how it stacks up against whatever we learn in the season finale. The only thing I'm not sure I agree with is the question of where Vecna's physical form is.
From what I remember, there are scenes where we see him hunting for or actively interacting with his victims, intercut with images of him suspended by the vine-things in his back. I took that to mean his physical body is in the Upside-Down version of his childhood home, physically "wired" into the Upside-Down's sort of neural network, and he's using it to project himself into the minds of his victims. When Max ends up in the red mist mind-palace he has going on, my take on that scene was that she'd stumbled onto the mind-link Vecna had made with her and followed it backwards into *his* mind. When we see Nancy walking around that same environment in ep 7, I thought that time he'd purposefully done it-although I have to admit I can't see why he elected to show her his Tragic Childhood Backstory. But given One's Epic Villain Monologue clocks in at just under ten minutes long, he clearly has a habit of oversharing. (No shade meant for Jamie Bower, dude delivered the *hell* out of that speech and I loved every second of it.)
Ugh, now you're gonna make me rewatch this season so I can think about this some more!
Agreed! These are my thoughts, exactly. It explains why he seemed surprised and a little alarmed when he asks Max something like “why are you in here?” Or “how did you get in here?” I agree with you about the speech to Nancy, too. I don’t know why he would tell Nancy his origin story except for that he knows she is curious about him and maybe that made him feel important and “seen” - But I didn’t like that such an otherwise interesting villain had to suffer from the typical bad guy cliche of the “here’s my backstory” and “here is my dastardly plan” exposition scene. That part disappointed me. It wasn’t creative and seemed out of place. I think they could have figured out a much better way to express the backstory that would not have been as cliche and corny.
@@rachelg3274 Doesnt every god like villian like to give a orgin story to justify why & this feeds the narcissism of these characters.
@@toddkilber1971 Yeah, I mean, the dude has the makings of a serial killer. He tortured and killed animals to see what would happen, justifies his behavior as some kind of sign from on high that he alone was meant to "cleanse" the world, victimizes himself by telling others that they made him do it, and wants everyone to know his grand plan. He's not wrong that Earth is full of oppressors and people "just following orders" but he nevertheless became an oppressor anyway. If this was a regular drama, he'd be Ted Bundy.
I’ve been waiting for more ST content from this channel, I love it!
The demogorgons was already in the core
This theory says Vecna created the Demogorgons but didn't they already exist in the upside down when he got there? I could have swore I saw then just chillin there when he arrived.
Yeah they were vibing
Vecna said in the last episode that he didn't have the ability to open up gates between the upside down and real world. He said he stole that ability from Eleven
I feel like Will went from Plan A to Plan B (or a contingency or backup plan) since first being abducted and pulled into the Upside Down. Like Vecna was going to use him in some way. Bc he mentioned in a previous season the Mindflayer wanted to kill everyone but Will. Maybe will had a natural ability like Vecna and when he possessed him he took it, like how he took 11's ability to open portals. But now Will is a back up. We don't know if Vecna left something locked up in Will's mind, like a piece of himself or something to use later or, again, a backup.
Great theory… side note… in the show we are only a month away from Chernobyl… I would love if the season ends or if the Russians accidentally rip a gate between worlds at the site that cause problems for everyone causing Vecna to “win” to finish the season, or the final clash causes a gate there since hopper and them are in russia
It's an interesting theory, and Stranger Things is all about cold war and parodies of both sides. Justifying what happened to Cherbobyl must happen carefully, everything that happened there was due to the corruption and the inefficiency of the russian system and that shouldn't be forgotten or manipulated in any way, not to cause any misinformation. But using that event as a trigger for a bigger catastrophy, and maybe having it still being due to the arrogance of the russian government would be cool. Even though no serious historical event was told in this series, and talking about only one would mean probably deaming it. Interesting idea though
You know in real life, the locals of Chernobyl reporting seeing strange creatures before and after the reactor ☢️ 🚨💥exploded. Most notably the mothman 🦟 especially 😬 true story not making this up! 😳😨
Dude this is ABSOLUTELY EYE OPENING!!!! I think you’ve cracked the case good Sir!!!! Bravo Bravo!!!
I cant believe nobody caught the Nightmare on Elm St Easter egg of the 'adults' going to the big bads lair to burn them alive. This is how Freddy was originally created. I bet Heavy Spoilers steals this
Finally, a new Stranger Things video. Thanks Doug for the insights and for keeping Ryan on track.
love Doug
Love how rooted in reality yet “magical” this show is.
It’s like the last of us, where the infection is very much grounded in science
Fringe is so underated!
We need more Fringe videos!!
Fringe superfan right here!!
I really hope that the show makes it to 1988 so Metallica's "One" can be used during the epic showdown with 001.
Love it but still curious how Will saw Joyce’s Christmas light letters if everything in the upside down was frozen on the date he entered!
If I recall correctly, the moment something with light is activated in a place the Upside Down has, the object appears
@@InutehUnicorn The object itself does not appear but its light signature does and can be manipulated from upside down
He's seeing time progress in the real world but time isn't affecting him I think.
they should do a "tales of the upside down" show like love death robots, masters of horror or vhs. give a bunch of directors free reign to go where ever they want to explore the stories of people who went there.
Make the intro like Tales from the Darkside.
If it’s a snapshot like a negative then why didn’t it snap to when 001 initially when into the void. And only when Will went in.
I believe it’s the mix flayer who’s in control. The upside down was just raw energy, but with each Strong connection the upside down grows. Which is why the mindflayer is so fixed on our world.
So the last strong connection the upside down had was with Will. Which is why it’s stuck in 1983. Maybe when the Russia gang release the mindflayer in vol 2 the mindflayer could connect with someone, inadvertently changing the upside down whilst the Hawkins gang are still inside it.
I’ve been waiting for you to do a video on the new season of Stranger Things and you did not disappoint. This is seriously brilliant and if this is what the Duffer brothers are doing then I have even more respect for them.
This theory implies that 001 is the final boss, but I don't think that's the case. They are usina Classic monster from D&D and, dragons aside, we're still missing one monster that I'm betting will be the final boss in season 5... The Beholder! I have 0 hints of that, but I know in my heart
👀
Eddie is gonna be kas
Aw, I miss Fringe.
Also, it’s atoms themselves that are largely empty, with a teeny tiny nucleus surrounded by electron valences waaay out, comparatively speaking.
Same here
Ryan, whenever you wanna talk about Fringe, I'm here for it.
Me too!
Is it possible that Henry’s powers come from his fathers time in the war? Because hopper mentioned birth defects in the children of those who fought in the war (and were exposed to chemical warfare) and connected that to his daughter cancer. It seems like that was the set up as to why Henry has powers, like they’re some sort of “defect”.
I thought this too!
That is an interesting theory.
You are talking about the show like it actually happened 🥸
Thank you for bringing up Fringe! I thought I was going crazy.
I love the dog interactions hahaha, You rock.
I’m really glad Eddie had the exact same guitar hanging in the same spot and the same amount of amps 3 years earlier.
That distraction wouldn’t have been nearly as badass if he was going through his folk days in ‘83 and had an acoustic hanging
Interesting theory, but there's an incorrect fact in your premise. El didn't open/create a gate to the upside at the same time Will went missing (by going into the upsidedown). El made the gate sending Nō1 to the upside down.
Then later the first demigorgan appeared to transverse to and from the upsidedown; and then some time after that Will entered the upsidedown.
As we can see from the trailer for the rest of the season, El closed the gate after 1 went through. And then it was when she touched the demigorgon that the gate from season 1 opened. And it seems that was the day Will was taken by the demigorgon.
Came here to comment this! And just to add to your thought after El sends 001 through the portal, that is the first time we see any connection made to the upside down. Then in their testing of El that they say is for locating anyone in the world when in reality they're most likely trying to reconnect with wherever she sent 001. That's when she connects with the demigorgan reopening whatever kind of connection needed to the upside down that allows the demigorgan to go through and eventually kidnap will. I think the demigorgans were just the first attempt to kidnap people so Vecna could build his psychic connection now he's strong enough to do it himself.
@@bobjohnson9201 the first known gate wasn't created on the day Will went missing, it was before.
@@martinerzpropersonally i don't think that everything in the upsidedown is an extension of Vecna. The first demigorgan was hunting and strongly attracted the the scent of blood (if memory serves), and there was the demidog that rissited the hive mind. Besides I don't like the idea from a world building view.
@@damientom oh I agree. I don't think Vecna created the upside either but he would certainly use the inhabitants to do his bidding. Once he was trapped there by El I think his arrogance of being sent there by someone more powerful would be his motivation for trying to get back. Psychically connecting to any creature he can to build his connection maybe. So even if the demigorgan was hunting with the scent of blood we have already heard Vecna take credit for Barb's death which would only make sense if he was psychically connected to it already.
That's not how the God Particle works or what it is. All Higgs-Boson particle does is give mass to things that pass through it's field. It's not a force that can push particles either.
didn't Dustin call Vecna "Midflayer's 5 star general"? So that implies Vecna's submission to the Mindflayer. Furthermore, in season 2, they say that the Mindflayer travels across dimensions enslaving them, which again would imply Mindflayer's seniority.
Yes to at least the first part for sure but Dustin could be wrong … isn’t it strange that things line up to D&D? Maybe it’s BECAUSE #1 designed it in the image of something he was familiar with?
Just because a character said something doesnt make it true. The kids in Lenora also called Jane the town snitch but she never snitched on Angela.
I honestly prefer the idea of a Lovecraftian being of uncomprihensible nature being the one in command but it does make sense that Vecna is actually the puppet master, it favors the world building
Vecna is waaay more powerful than a mindflayer though, at least in dnd.
Lost me at "Furthermore."
Please more stranger things content!!!
I have to watch this 10 more times to wrap my head around it.
Best video Ive seen using science and it’s possibilities lol
I still think 001’s mom had powers. She knew it was him haunting them, and she even had music playing at the dinner where he killed her until he stops the record from playing
Yes 100%. He said he saw his parents for who they truly were, that they were flawed and immoral. But he never explained what his mom did. I think her backstory will be a crucial piece of information in Vecna's arc and in explaining the kids powers.
I was thinking she was thinking Henry had powers
I think maybe his mom had an affair with Dr. Brenner. He had powers but lost them or they are not strong. That is why Brenner is so into this research and that is how Henry’s mom knew to contact Brenner about Henry once the powers in him emerged. This is the terrible thing the mom did that he held up to her. He used his powers to remind her that she betrayed the father (whom he more or less views easily duped and simple) and that she continues to lie to the family and thinks she can turn Henry over to Brenner to control him. He wants her to suffer the consequences of her actions and also let her know that her expectations are not going to happen if he has anything to say about it. I am not 100% sold on this idea, but it would explain a lot. I still have an open mind about how it all will play out and I hope it all resolves in an interesting way.
@@rachelg3274 if this was too be true they would have show a flashback this possible interesting theory
Okay but I would watch videos on Fringe if you ever wanna do that! That show was AWESOME!
Why are Vecna victim's corpses both in the normal world and the upside down?
Since they're no longer alive they are considered inanimate objects so the upside down can make replicas?
It’s not in the grey upside down world, it’s in the red mental world.
@@mxu1881 you right
I think the MindFlayer will still be the top dog and number one his general like Dusty Buns said.
Hmm. Very interesting. I like where you’re going with this theory, Ryan.
This theory went from "guy on the subway" to "guy on the Nobel dais" in record time.
The Duffers have said most of the Upside Down lore is in season 5 though. Here's to hoping they come through in a big way!
Wow that truly is an amazing explanation, not only of stranger things but of reality itself!!
that shih tzu looks so done with everything in his little shirt 👕
This video is gonna blow up
Great theory Ryan! This kind of amazing thought through content is exactly why I subscribe to your channel 🙌🥇
Hi Ryan, I received a message with a WhatsApp number for the Ps5. I responded however I did not receive a response.
Finally someone that sees the connection with Fringe! Such a great show.
I miss the show so much 🥲
Ryan has been smoking some reeeeally good stuff lmao. Great theory - I’m actually blown away
Super interesting theory although I think its way more advanced than something the Duffer Brothers would come up with. Time will tell though!
Fringe may be an influence, but the Duffer Brothers have definitely mentioned Elfen Lied.
Also the irl government experiments with psychics during the cold war are obviously referenced. And mkultra.
i think things existed in the upside down before but while wondering he found a way to connect to the things that exist and then connect those things to each other. the form of the upside-down is mailable because its partly or mostly a plane of the mind. its also established that 1 steals a part of the ones he kills so he would be doing the same in the upside-down. taking things that already exist and fusing them with himself.
I love and agree with most of this theory, but they mentioned that Vecna is a general, as in a guy in charge, but not THE guy in charge. I still think they have one more season after this one in July that’ll cap it all.
That IS true, but remember this was said before the kids knew really anything about 001.
Though in the context of a series, the scene was given too much attention for it to not hold some water, if not, it would be a bit strange
The Mind Flayer IS the guy in charge. I have a feeling that we will find out who or what he is and how he is using Vecna
@@FishyGuy he is not being used by the mind flayer, he gave the mist monster a form, a form similar to a spider/mantis creature. Vecna is pulling the strings.
Ryan, I freaking love you bruh, this is perfect.
One issue with this Theory. It assumes that the kids are wrong when they describe Vecna as the mind flayers 5 star general. Obviously it is possible for the kids to be wrong, but so far in the show the trend is that if the kids figure something out it is cannon. So in season four the kids are still considering the mind flayer as the one in charge and vecna as beneath him. In this Theory you make Vecna to be the one in charge.
why 11's sister has different powers
Didnt they already kinda establish that 1/Vecnar is "only" a "general" and therefor servant of the mind flayer ?
I like your theory and I believe they will go into this kinda direction, since its a more "grounded" scifi, meaning it wont just be like 'woohoo its magic'. I just think you're not quite there yet with this theory.
i was caught up on this too but im starting to think that the character's were just wrong or did not know enough about vecna yet when they said that. maybe not though, im excited to see!
Dustin did say that, but it also was a recurring theme this season that he is not always right. Example is when he was wrong about the kissing rock location or whatever it was called and the others kinda check him in that he is not always right
That was Dustin's theory, he has tended to be partially wrong in these past few episodes, his guesses always miss some crucial detail or extra twist so they might revisit that later to show that maybe the relationship between the mindflayer and vecna is not as they thought.
Personally I would like more if it is that the mindflayer or some other entity is the one calling shots and using Vecna to try and open a gateway to our world and the upside down is just a parallel dimension, almost exactly like ours, that just happened to be overrun by extradimensional beings.
@@shnc27 this seems likely to me. Dustin is going to be wrong here about something major. They spent a bunch of time establishing him as in need of an ego check and having always been right on the money
i believe Dustin´s statement is a subtle hint from the writers, that there is more to come in Season 5. So yeah, Vecna is not the ultimate evil in this, just a vessel.
the quantum physics portion of this video is pure gibberish
Everyone seems to have missed that Vecna and the upside down is super similar to Aizen and Hueco Mundo in the anime Bleach. Aizen finds another dimension, creates an army from creatures he finds there, they attack they human world through cracks in space and time.
Why did they not need oxygen masks in the upside down like before?
Loved this explanation!
Late to the party here... I have a comment/thought/question about when Vecna/Henry/1 was explaining what happened when he was first transported to the "upside down." To me is looked like what earth would have looked in its earliest phase of being a planet (4.5 billion or so years ago). I found this interesting yet, nobody is really talking about it. Also, he commented on that he thought he was sent to hell and to us that's how we would possibly imagine what hell would look like. Could this be the origin of where humans came up with, not the concept of hell, but rather somebodies first hand account of this place? Maybe somebody, thousands of years ago went to the "upside down" and that story has been passed down through the bible and other religions.
I love your interpretation of the creatures and where they came from. Its a messed up version of who came first, the chicken or the egg? My only comment with you saying Henry created them, is the Demogorgon was already there when he first got there. However, I do think he controls them with the "particles" because that's what happened at the Russian prison when the shadow was, "in them." I just don't think he created them, and there's still the question of who/how where they created?
I really hope you read this and love your channel. Thanks!
When 011 sent Henry (001) into the upside down/ The Never (The Red energy world you spoke of)…. for that very first time…. She sent him straight through a mirror, pinned him against the wall, then ultimately through it and into “The Never”/ Upside down!
I wonder if that is why the upside down is essentially a mirror image of the real Hawkings!?
Fringe was a great show. The 4400 too. Very influential shows lol.
Your theories are the best 🙌
I never comment on videos, but this was awesome! Well done, sir!
@2:45 that's what John Travolta said in Phenomenon..... The scene where he is moving the pen or pencil. In theory it's also how people can do super punches like the 1-in punch and stuff like that
Brings a whole new meaning to the phrase "Hell is other people"
I was not expecting my mind to implode like that.
My man tapped into the neural network for this theory, well done
Some of that was true, but what i want to know is why the upside down was different (yellow looking) before 001 got their.
Probably just a visual cue that it was more neutral and when Big V used his mental power to shape it turned more red = evil
@@litjellyfish big v 😭😂
Love the tie in to fringe, that’s exactly what I thought while watching
Watching your predictions after watching season 4 finale and it's funny how close you were.
OH! and it also makes sense that one of the words we see in the cross word puzzle (which they sort of highlight even) is "etiological" which loosely means origin, cause, reason, and beginning; usually in the context of illness or diseases, but cause of or reason for none the less.
This is the greatest theory I have heard in a while
excellent video!! thank you!
The demigorgon was there when 001 arrived. We see it crawling around when he first arrives. Things were there before him, so something more powerful is probably there
The only reason I watch your videos; is the puppy banter lol
Your theory makes a lot of sense to me, and I hope you're right! I'm gonna be bummed if it's all explained away with magic.
This actually sort of supports my thought that Stranger Things is sort of a retelling of or at least based around the Dante's Inferno tale. God particles, Satan is stuck in Hell, there are several levels of Hell, There are two keys to enter St Peters gate... but before he can, he has to HEAL WOUNDS in his forehead by traveling up the mountain (which makes Running up that Hill SO ridiculously appropriate)... etc. I'm probably over thinking it, but I see a lot of similarities and relations in various different ways.
We have heard several people say over the course of these 4 seasons including vecna himself that the people he killed are not gone they’re still with him in his mind. He has absorbed all of their gifts and is able to use them. I think every one who died, we will see again as an undead soldier of vecna’s army. Dustin said something about the only ones who might be able to help are the undead because they don’t have any brains for vecna to manipulate.
Thank you for mentioning Fringe!
Not trying to hate on your theory, but your particle physics summary is pretty far off-base. We already know that atoms are made of electrons, protons, and neutrons, and we also know that these particles are also made of smaller building blocks called quarks, which as far as we know are the smallest units of matter and energy in our universe. Hadrons (which can be either mesons or baryons) are made up of a small number of quarks, but not enough to build an entire electron, proton, or neutron. If an atom is a house and a quark is a brick, a hadron is like one section of wall.
The Higgs boson is a special case: it isn't built out of smaller particles, but it is quite large. It only exists briefly before decaying into a bunch of smaller particles, but it's theorised to be the particle that gives all matter mass. In very basic terms, the universe is built out of energy and matter, and they have to come from somewhere. While most other fundamental particles are packets of different flavours of energy, but the HB is what provides the mass, which gives matter weight and solidity.
I am not a physicist by any means, just an avid amateur reader of science, and I've probably made a few mistakes of my own in this comment, but I think it's pretty close to the established theories.
This is great! Thank you for these theories. I have been confused about why the date in ‘dark Hawkins’ was stuck Nov 6th and I was thinking VH1 (Vecna Henry One) had been watching Hawkins, recreated it in the upside down and biding his time, waiting to reach back into the real world. When Eleven accidentally opened it when she encountered the demogorgan, I had figured VH1 had simply stopped recreating and toying with it when he saw his chance to reach through the gate directly. Your ‘photo Hawkins’ theory is WAY WAY better, because it explains how the recreation was ‘then-present-day Hawkins’ which he wouldn’t have known about (having been shut in Hawkins Lab for years, as test subject then ‘friendly orderly’, then ejected to the upside down by Eleven in 1979).
But how come the demogorgan and demodogs could come into the real world whilst VH1 couldn’t? He could only ‘come across’ into the minds of his victims, but not physically. How come the monsters can pop through weak spots, where the dimensions are bleeding into each other, but VH1 can’t? That bit, I still don’t get. VH1 was all about making his own gates but in the first 2 seasons, the monsters were coming through physically. If they don’t need an actual ‘gate’, why does he?
So where does the upside down actually exist ? Does it exist in the core of the onion or between the layers of the onion?
Please talk about Fringe!! It's my favorite show 😄
can someone tell me, even when 001 was so powerful then how was he in captivity of Dr brenner for so long? and also how did henry acquire the power to control those creatures in the upside down world when eleven threw him in it?
so, it works kinda like psi-moon from Red Dwarf... _got it!_ :D
Well folks, I think it’s obvious that the *Upside Down* existed… the creator is *The Witness,* also known as the Entity, or the Voice in the Darkness, is an individual who appears to be the leader of the Black Fleet. It is described by Savathûn, the Witch Queen as a "child of the Darkness," and seems to act as its foremost representative in the physical universe.
I do have a theory that to end everything either 11 would have to stay in the upside down or sacrifice herself once the final monster is taken down.
It absolutely will not be an explanation based on theoretical science. It’ll be supernatural for sure
Brilliant! I can't wait for part 2 to drop. Thank you. 😎
THANK YOU for someone finally mentioning Fringe.
Thats probably the best theory that I have heard in this topic.
I just want to know how Brenner kept one under control all those years
Me explaining Stranger Things to a friend
Me: You got an onion?
I introduced my daughter to Fringe this summer. We just watched S1 EP17. My child screams “Dr.BRINNER!!!!” Her eyes got all wide. She has been making so many comparisons.