Oh man, can you imagine that? The entire ward would go ballistic and not rest until that little sinner got right back in line and did the deed. But nah, it's definitely not a cult.
@@mylesmarkson1686lol that’s exactly what happened to me. Ended up getting forcibly baptized, was literally crying while I was being dipped into the water. My parents made up an excuse for why I was crying no one besides my bishop and my immediate family knew I actually had said I wasn’t ready to be baptized yet.
At my local morman church I attended the bishops daughter didn't want to get batized and she was litually crying saying I don't want to . They took her into a room and half hour later she was being baptized and her dad the bishop basically saying she was just overwhelmed with it all and so happy for her day when litually she was screaming she didn't want to half hour before
That was me. I didn't accept any part of the lds church even at a young age. In 1962, the first day of the first grade, my teacher told me that my name was special, the letter j symbol and sound did not exist in the old english language. There used to be 19 letters, but now we have 26, and she assured me that I could learn all of them. About the same time, the lds members wanted me to prepare to be baptisted in a few years. It hasn't gone good for them since...lol
Forced to be baptized. Punished when I didn't go to church. Made to stand in the corner all day if we played on Sunday or didn't attend the Sunday meeting. Appreciate you, Lexi.
That is so gross. I am sorry you were treated that way. I remember when I was 9 years old, I had a bad headache on Fast Sunday. I took an aspirin before I went to church. During Sacrament meeting, I got pretty nauseous from taking an aspirin on an empty stomach. I thought I was going to throw up. One of my parents had to take me home. They made me feel so guilty for that. Later on, when I was a teenager, I used to get horrible menstrual cycles, but they were very regular. I always started on the 3rd Sunday of every month. I would be in so much pain, I had to miss church. I was accused of "faking it" many times.
My grandma tried to get me baptized behind my parents back. I was TERRIFIED of committing my soul to something as a kid! I folded and told my mom about it and she helped me understand that I can choose that when I’m older. My grandma stopped liking me after that and treated me as a lesser grandchild because I “chose to disappoint Heavenly Father”.
As someone who was never LDS (Mormon) it seems to be a strong pattern to say everything is voluntary whilst indoctrinating members from a very young age and exerting HUGE social pressure on everyone.
As exJW we had the same. Age normal JW kid to join to org is 11-15 so abit older than mormons but I know kid that joine age of 9 and there are stories even younger. They told those stories in convention to make kids feel bad that they havent joined yet. The presure is huge. Sadly mormons arent the onyone. And as exJW everyone are shunning me cos I left. My own mom is also shunning me till she or I die or Ill go back (thats not going to happen).
I didn't feel like I had a choice to get baptized or serve a mission. I almost didn't enter the MTC. But the pressure was intense. I left the church a year after my mission. Now all my kids are non Mormon!
I wasn’t baptized until I was 11 yo because my mother wanted my dad to do the baptism. I absolutely hated that experience, I was starting to develop and it was like being in a wet T-shirt contest everyone wondering what this girl was doing with all these little kids. From that point on I never felt comfortable going to church, but was forced to attend. Even as an adult I was shamed to attend by my mother. I would take my teens to church, until one day I thought why the hell am I forcing my boys to do this. We all three absolutely hated it. So I quit the church and had my name removed from the church rolls and have never been happier, like a big burden off my back.
This video is ironically posted on my son's 8th Birthday!! Glad I'm not making him "choose" to get baptized. Even as a full blown believer I vocalized how odd it was that we made children "decide" whether or not to get baptized. Always sat wrong with me.
As a Mormon kid I said no to being baptized, I was so scared of sinning again and having it stay with me forever so I told my bishop I didn’t want to be baptized. They decided to move along with the baptism anyways. In the Baptismal Font I was bawling to my dad asking him to please not baptize me because I was scared and wasn’t ready to agree to signing over the rest of my life that was a long time for an 8 year old. In the end none of it mattered I was baptized with puffy eyes and tears streaming down my face. Left when I turned 18. Some kids do say No, you may never hear about it because the stigma you would put on yourself and your family for not getting baptized at 8 is worse than pretending you’re happy.
I’m ashamed to admit that my oldest told the bishop during her baptismal interview that she didn’t want to get baptized and we didn’t accept that answer. Everyone else in our life jumped into convincing her it was the right choice while I got lost in my mind fighting ideas that she needed to be baptized and ideas of the importance of her agency-it was a real mindfuck. She ultimately “chose” to be baptized. She deserved better.
I remember clearly during my i year old interview with my bishop that he never specifically asked me if I wanted to be baptized. As an 8 year old I didn't want to attend cub scouts so I was going to say No I don't want to be Baptistized unless I don't have to attend. Since he never asked I never got to say no (was a nervous kid so didn't speak up). A few weeks later I was baptized and forced to do cub scouts and then had all the expectations of membership and later being a priesthood holder shoved down my throat so I never said no to anything. Really did a number on my confidence. I told my parents before I was baptized and several times later that I never was specifically asked if I wanted to be baptized, they never believed me. Really small thing but It did bug me a lot as a kid I felt I never had a choice.
Did you ‘choose’ to go on a mission? I can’t believe you would have been forced to spend 2 years feeling as you do. I hope all is well with you now and you are getting your confidence back because you are okay no matter what your choices are!😘😘😘
When my youngest turned 8, my wife was thinking he should get baptized. She thought he would want to get baptized since his older siblings had been baptized and all his friends had been getting baptized. She asked him if he wanted to get baptized like his friends have been. His response was, "Yes, I want to be baptized. But, I don't ever want to go to church." Ha ha! Well, that was enough for my wife to agree with me that he doesn't need to be baptized. :)
Dutch ex catholic here. Don't remember anything about being baptized as that was at a few months old. Communion was at 7 and (I think it's called) confirmation at 11 or 12. At neither of the two things to me at the time it felt as if I had a choice. However deciding to leave luckily didn't have the profound consequences that I read about on reddit. It's more like 'We're sorry to see you go, have a good life!'.
Why does the creator of the universe need to demand lifelong promises from eight-year old kids? The grand total of promises that I demanded from my kids, never mind lifetime ones, is zero. And they are already adults, so this total will probably continue to be zero forever. God might be able to blow over some dust and make a galaxy, but his skills to raise and educate kids are woeful.
I was a missionary in a heavily Mormon populated area and would go through church records to find children who were not baptized at 8. A lot of them had inactive parents, who may or may not have been okay with their child getting baptized. A lot of my baptisms were of children who for whatever reason were not baptized at the "age of accountability".
Hey Lex, i had been a member of the church and was an atheist since I was 15/16, then found out that one of my scout leaders, someone I had loved and trusted since…basically my entire life, had gone to jail for reasons I’ll leave undisclosed. To have been told that after so many years of trusting someone like that and hearing of many other instances like that solidified my inactivity in regards to going to church and my decision to not serve a mission. Having time to myself to think and to see content like this helps me find comfort in my decisions in finding good employment and therapy and soon to be education instead of what might have been the biggest mistake of my life. Thank you from the bottom of my hardened heart for being a beacon of comfort
I have half custody so some choices are not mine to make. My 8 year old son is already developing severe anxiety and low self esteem from all the pressure he gets from the church telling him he that he has sins to repent of or he is going to hell. The emotional trauma is real.
At eight I wanted to eat candy for breakfast, lunch and dinner. An eight year old cannot make lifelong decisions. I don't understand how this would even be allowed.
Yes, this! I remember NOT wanting to be baptized (Mormon from birth). But I knew I would disappoint my parents, grandparents, etc. and that it was just expected. So, was baptized. Now having a child who will be that age in a few short years, I couldn’t imagine asking them to make that kind of decision and putting that kind of weight on them. There’s no way they would understand even a small fraction of any of it. Much love Lex!! 🖤🖤🖤
I´m a Lutheran from Finland and I was baptized when I was around 2 months old. That´s the norm in my religion, we baptize babies, literally. I´ve only very recently started to question this and to think about leaving the church officially (been inactive most of my life). In my mind baptism should be a choice that an adult makes, a child of any age can´t give an informed consent in a matter this important!
I feel the exact same. Babies and children cannot consent to a legally-binding agreement to join a religion. In some countries, they are also taxed by the government as a condition of their membership. This is definitely a decision for an adult to make, not a child.
When i was eight, i was baptized and remember very little of it. I definitely did not make any covenants or promises of my own volition, because my brain was a child's brain! No eight year old is "accountable".
As a single working mom - my moms church attendance was not consistent and once we moved out of my grandparents house when I was 5 I was also no longer attending regularly with them. I distinctly remember my grandma asking my mom when I was 8 about being baptized and my mom told her it was my choice. Proud to say I’m a “never mo” and really wish I would have never been blessed as a baby.
When I was baptized, I didn’t even know it was happening that weekend. I woke up on Saturday and instantly got up to play some video games, but my mom told me to get dressed and take a shower, I said why, and she said that I was getting baptized today. They didn’t even ask me if I wanted to.
LEXIIIIIII!!!!!!!! Today my ward put out an advertisement for a fund raiser that the youth NEED TO participate in to raise money for activities for the rest of the year!!!
As a adult male being baptized at 43. Once the “new convert” stigma wore i off I was nothing but a body filling up space on the pew on Sunday. I was almost certain me being single that someone would of try to set me up with a sister who was looking for a companion. But after 16 months that didn’t happen, nor did I have any success in dating. I reached out to one of my missionaries to see anything could become of us since I thought we had some connection during the lessons. Well that never even got off the ground because she brutally ghosted me never even responded to me. So I abruptly stopped attending. At first members of the bishopric tried to get me to attend but they gave up after I told them I don’t fit in and it’s not for me
I had no idea what baptism even means at age 8, it was just something everyone did and was supposed to be super special and stuff. That's all I knew. I didn't have any clue what I was promising that day. I was too young to comprehend it properly.
Psychology studies say 8-10 is the most socially compliant stage for most kids. A literal baby wouldn’t be tricked into believing they “chose this” or the joy they feel when surrounded and rewarded by family and friends is “the spirit”. Under 8 kids are usually a little more wild and around 12 and up kids are more likely to understand enough to question what they’ve been taught. A lot of exmormon kids weren’t told what law of chastity means or what the word gay means until around twelve. Even if an 8 year old does make a scene in order to get out of a situation they’d get worse looks and comments than a 4 year old doing the same thing. Eight is a very vulnerable age.
I was excited to get dunked at 8 (in 1968) and my best friend at school wanted to get baptised with me. I was shocked, angry and pissed off when my dad told me she couldn't be because mormons think her black skin was a curse. I remember crying for days, praying and asking Jesus to come back now and tell these stupid adults how wrong they were. I refused to get baptised because Jesus didn't come back and set things straight! I thought for he would answer my prayer, and when he didn't I was heartbroken. I was forced to go ahead with it as plans were already made and I would disappoint people if I didn't.😢
As a non Mormon I was invited to a baptism and was astonished by it. There’s no way an 8-year-old can make this decision for themselves at that young of an age. As a parent, I would want my adult child to have the opportunity to learn about many different religions and after much study and thought, then decide if they want to commit to any of them, or none at all.
Your entire early primary experience, is to prepare you for baptism. After baptism, it's to prepare you for the mission. After the mission, is the Celestial marriage preparation. Then kids, and raising them in the same manner. After that, nothing seems to matter, except, going to the top tier of Heaven. 😇 👼 😇 👼 😇 "Each milestone you achieve, the less likely you are to ever leave." -my own quote 😢😢😢 Great video Lex!❤
You do so much good and help with this episodes and also being so well educated in the subject , even for people trapped in other similar cults... Love and light from Sweden💚🤟🤟🤟
Back in the early 70s in sunday school one of the girls brought up she was only baptized to please her parents. The teacher then asked us if we did it for the same reason, all but 1 of us raised our hands. The people I have talk to that wasn't raised religious was only baptized because their friends were getting baptized.
I didn't get to choose. My family are converts and when I was 9 my family and I were taught by the missionaries. My parents decided they wanted to get baptized so the missionaries asked me if I wanted to as well. I really didn't care about church and just liked it because I got to make new friends so I said I was still thinking. The missionaries said that was okay and that I didn't have to be baptized if I wasn't ready. Well that was bullshit because that Sunday they announced that my parents AND ME were going to be baptized. I was so confused because I told them I wasn't sure yet but they announced it to our huge ward so I was too scared to speak up and just went along with it.
I love this video! When I turned 8 and got baptized, I remember feeling like I was almost on autopilot, just going along with the bishop interview and the planning and all that because that's just what you do. I for sure didn't feel like I had a choice, but at the same time I wouldn't have chosen anything different at the time if I could have. As a young teenager, when I was the most believing I ever was, I wondered if there was a way to get a do-over since I didn't feel like my baptism was special and I didn't feel 'the spirit' the way everyone else did. Also my baptism dress was my favorite red dress that made me feel like a princess, but I was self concious about it because literally every other girl I knew of had a new pure white dress. Another thing that bugs me is how the church condemns other denominations for baptizing babies, even though 8 years old isn't much better, especially considering the magnitude of the promises they agree to. From what I understand of baby baptisms or christenings, it's a lot more like a mormon baby blessing than making life-long covenants to a high-demand cult. I could be wrong, but I feel like parents who christen their babies just do it because of tradition, but in practice aren't nearly as strict. Whereas mormon parents will constantly remind kids that they promised to always obey god when they were 8, not to mention the insane level of indoctrination to make that 'choice'.
Baby baptism with other domination stems from a time where child deaths were high and in order to make sure they went to heaven they baptized them as early as possible. They believed they would become lost souls (will-o'-the-wisps) if they were not baptized. There are known cases of priest coming to a stillbirth and performed a quick baptism in hopes the baby would get to heaven. In modern times the traditions stayed, but the original meaning faded.
This is probably by far the most easiest way for the church to get members which is honestly so messed up. I also “chose” to get baptized at 8 because who wouldn’t? Your parents were happy and proud of you, you got to see friends and family, and of course the obvious cake/ ice cream/ pizza party it was pretty much another simple birthday party. They sugarcoat everything by having this whole party for you but they don’t tell you what to expect later because fast forward to next month after the party, I was told to NOT eat one Sunday morning because now that I’m baptized I’m required to fast and skip Breakfast and Lunch and was told to pay money every time I did when I got older 😒😒 I remember getting my first job at the mall in high school and was so excited to spend and save my OWN money, when I told my mom about my first job she was like “Great! But don’t keep ALL that money all to yourself because you have to give 10 percent to church 🤡🤡” Like at this point I just started eating on those Sundays lol and I tried to act like I “forgot” and be like “Whoops I forgot fast Sunday was today looks like I will have to do it another day.” And I don’t do it the next day because my mom will completely forget over the week but yeah I “chose” to be baptized for pizza and ice cream NOT to starve myself OR have a grown man ask me if I’m “watching” anything (had to keep it clean for RUclips lol) 🤢🤢
This is when I first questioned the church: when I was 8! Someone asked me as a part of a baptism interview: do you want to be baptized? I remember thinking ‘ I didn’t know I had a choice. ‘
I appreciate this video SO MUCH! The indoctrination of children is literally my biggest pet peeve when it comes to religion. You touched on literally everything I was thinking! My grandparents bribed me into getting baptized. And I never actually saw the money. My parents always told me it went into my mission fund, but never did that either and still to this day, no idea where that $500 went… the boy who was being baptized after me had to get dunked 4 times because the poor little guy was scared to death of the water! Kid was hysterical afterwards and everyone was told that he was just so overcome by the spirit 🙄
Even at 8 yrs old, I knew I wasn’t a TBM but still was baptized anyways because my parents didn’t even ask me to give me the “choice”. The only choice they gave me was either choosing my dad or older brother to baptize me. Of course I never was going to tell them I didn’t want to be baptized because what would they do? They would have got angry with me and forced me to do it anyways, so what’s the point of going through that
My father was a convert in 1977. I turned 8 and was baptized. I didn’t have the inculcation like you did. It was very confusing as a child especially since my mother didn’t convert, neither did my brother. He was 12 and was already smoking weed. They stayed married for decades and made it a complete hell in my house. My dad and mom fighting about the church and us kids being exposed to a horror I wont describe. My last day, ever, in a Sunday school class I asked the teacher, “so if a Chinese man lives the life of Christ just by being a good guy, never hears the name Jesus, does he he go to heaven…?” She said “no”. I laughed and walked out, “that makes no sense”. I was 12. I was my mothers child. Always will be. Still holding my ground against my abusive and now old and losing his mind because of this shit father….it’s a struggle. Thanks for all you do. You make me brave. All of us. And I love many Mormons! The people. Some beautiful souls. Peace out!
Hey exmo Lex! Dont forget the church also says you promise to serve a mission when you are baptized against your will when you turn 18. If i known that i would of thrown a temper tantrum and said Hell No at the age of 8!
At my baptism, with about 3 other kids, the bishop asked us the definition of 'covenant', since we were about to make this sacred important one with HEAVENLY FATHER. Kind of a big deal, apparently. Not one of the 4 of us knew what the word covenant meant. And the bishop was appalled and belittled us for not knowing. Good sir, we are EIGHT years old!!?? We're reading The Babysitters Club House books, sorry our vocabulary isn't up to par. We're thinking about how to persuade our mom into buying us glitter pens, not entering cult pacts for our eternal souls, signed in our own blood. But, apparently, 8 is the age of accountability, yes, definitely, mhmm, nodding vigorously.
Glad we got out when we did. My daughter is nearly 7. It hasn't been all that long since we stopped attending, and she still asks from time to time about why we don't go anymore. My wife still believes in prayer and God, but I'm feeling indifferent to it all. God can exist, but I don't know that I believe he exists, and don't really care anymore.
This is so great. Reading the actual nursery lesson plan content to show how transparently coercive this all is from the very beginning. Sometimes I'm overwhelmed with frustration and sadness about this, for those of us who were indoctrinated in these ways as vulnerable little children.
All I remember about my baptism is my elderly grandpa warmly congratulating me (which I did not understand), getting little presents and everyone coming over for cake and ice cream. I never put any thought into my "choice" or the "promises" I was making. It was just a milestone everyone did.
I've seen these posts from friends on facebook. One such post the parent proclaimed that the child had studied other religions and chose LDS. Really at 8? I highly doubt the parents were driving to the local synagogue or mosque to learn more. Also I attended an LDS church once with roommate from college and it was testimony day and I saw little kids being taken up by their parents and parents whispering into their ear and the kids would robotically say, "I believe the church is true" and other declarations that at 8 I don't think they would actually know.
At age 8, I didn't even think about church very much. I did dig a hole in the back yard to see if Hell was under the dirt, but I didn't find anything. Dark Shadows and trains were the coolest things in the world to me at age 8.
Even as a non-Mormon, I can relate. I grew up southern Baptist. We were taught about it from a young age as well, and celebrated like it was a big deal when we decided to get baptized. I was nine years old when I mentioned to my parents that I wanted to get baptized. My dad went with me to talk to the preacher, and I was so shy that I wouldn’t even answer the preachers questions, and he still signed me up for baptism and I was baptized. They truly had no clue if I understood any of it at all, I really don’t think I did. All I knew is that everyone would be proud of me. I did not leave the church until in my 20s. But countless times through my life I would wonder if I was really saved because I didn’t even remember understanding baptism. It’s so ridiculous.
"However, we need not limit our [fast offering] contribution to the cost of two meals. We are encouraged to be as generous as our means allow." And the church is more than delighted to allow you to continue to believe that if you donate more, then that will translate into the church doing more humanitarian aid to help feed more people in need. (The extra contribution certainly doesn't just get put into an already obscenely huge hedge fund.... Jesus wouldn't allow that in his church! 😏) I absolutely grew up thinking that that's how it worked as a kid, and it was absolutely what my parents thought--or at least what they told me. It's shamelessly fraudulent.
I need to represent the trauma survivors out there who were baptized under duress. And a huge amount of stress. I couldn’t have cared less about being baptized; I just did what I was told and was under an enormous amount of stress because I was baptized by my narcissistic sociopath father who was absolutely not “worthy” to do so. He kept messing up the words he had to say and had to keep redoing it and i knew he was getting increasingly angry with himself and someone would have to pay for that later. I never felt any “spirit” or “Holy Ghost.” I only felt stress, fear and constant pressure. Of course there was no party or celebrating; I was just content to escape my father and the f***** font when it was finished.
100% all of this! As an ExMo, my daughter is about to turn 8 so I have been waiting for my parents breach the subject of her getting baptized. I've never heard of a kid saying no to making the "choice." Who would disappoint their parents like that? There is only 1 acceptable answer.
It took me witnessing a first communion (their sacrament) at Catholic school to question this logic. It's also why when I gave up the church, I gave up religion entirely...or at least anything Abrahamic.
Your reciting of the 10 commandments triggered a memory. I went to 12 years of Catholic school. In second or third grade, my religion textbook explained the commandments one by one. Most were straightforward: "Honor thy father and thy mother" meant be a good kid and obey your parents. When the book got to "thou shalt not commit adultery" there was a picture of this priest holding up a chalice. And he said we had to keep our thoughts, words and deeds as pure as the chalice. I wondered, in so many words, what that had anything to do with the price of rice in China. And it goes without saying that the nuns never told us what adultery really was. Even though we had to memorize all the commandments word for word.
Exactly! Just go to any baptism for an 8-year old Mormon child and you'll notice one thing: The adult speakers know they're addressing a literal child so the messages have no depth. They are basically, "Listen to your mom and dad, be like Jesus, listen to the holy ghost if you get mad at your siblings, help your parents with chores, etc." That's a literal child that was indoctrinated and has no idea what they're doing. They didn't "choose" to be baptized. They're a child that is taken to church every Sunday whether they like it or not. They have been fed Mormonism their entire life. They have been made to repeat lines about being baptized when they're 8, about going to the temple, about listening to the Mormon prophet, etc. They have been taught by the Mormon church that being baptized into the Mormon church is wonderful (how convenient). They witness their friends getting baptized when they're 8 and there's presents and cake. So then when they turn 8 and they're asked, do you want to get baptized, what in the world do you think a child that has been through all that indoctrination and brainwashing is going to say? Obviously, yes. Also, what a coincidence that all of these kids "choose" to be baptized right when they turn 8. It's the machine. It's brainwashing. It's indoctrination.
I've never been Mormon, but this DEFINITELY reads like child marriage to me? like you see these fairy tale weddings your whole life and your only concept of it is Big Party, Pretty Dress, I get to spend forever with the person i love the most in the world, and even better, it's **expected** of me? But you're 8, so you have no concept of a prenuptial agreement, divorce, domestic violence, or that you might be too trusting and people want to take advantage of that. If child marriage is widely considered wrong, why would this be considered a good idea?
Love how so many Mormons feel like 8 year old kids should make choices about their eternal soul but apparently can’t understand their own gender identity/s 💀
I’m Catholic. I did my first communion at age eight because it was expected. It never occurred to me to say no. You just did it. Eight year olds are like that.
i didn't want to be baptized, didn't enjoy the process, and felt guilty for not having a "proper testimony" because as a tiny little eight year old child the most spiritual conviction i had was like. my dad helped me find a blanket i lost and said it was the holy ghost. 0/10 the only part that didnt suck was, of course, the treats. even then tho it was an overall miserable experience because the adults were celebrating around me and i was just kinda incredibly lonely lmao
Not for me. I wanted to please my mother because I am the eldest daughter. I felt like I *had* to get baptized. Now I see it as this: If God wanted me to make a secret pact with him, that's between my Gods and I. Yes, Gods.
I feel like the specific wording of "choosing" to be baptized helps to assuage the guilt that parents feel for indoctrinating their kids. If it's the kid's "choice" then the parents didn't force them to do it, even if they essentially did.
As the oldest child in my family and in my primary class (born in Jan), I felt somewhat responsible to set the example for my siblings and friends. I also had a less-active (but still fully believing) father who I felt I could help by asking him to baptize me. So although I felt like I was choosing to be baptized benevolently, I now see how much pressure I was also under. I don’t remember a lot about it since it was so long ago, and I was so young. But I do remember the circumstances and responsibility I felt surrounding it.
There was no choice for me so I told my son that he couldn't get baptized until he forced me to accept that he chose it. We didn't have a great celebration or anything, it was just another day. When he asked for the 3rd time, I still said no... but he was insistent. Then, when he was 18, he left. I was like, what? Then I left too!
Hard to remember anything from almost 24 years ago, but I don't believe I was given a choice. Whenever baptism was discussed, it was always "when" and not "if." I had no idea what I was agreeing to. It was something my brother did, and so I wanted to do it
Yeah it wasn't a choice, especially in my abusive home. The only choice I had was who performed the baptism. I worry that encouraging the idea that an 8 yr old is capable of making such a choice and can fully understand that commitment is dangerous. It lends to the idea that many predators have that children 'choose' to have sex with them or wanted it.
I think my brother does a good job of actually letting his kids chose things like baptism. He's absolutely LDS, and very devout, but his parenting style is much more about allowing for informed consent and respecting boundaries. They even had a discussion about why they were wearing masks during 2021, and his kids were the only ones to wear masks in their classes. I do think it's possible for kids to chose to be baptized, but it really comes down to parenting styles and respectful boundaries.
My oldest step son turned 8 in July 2020. I was already on the path of leaving the church and hyper aware of how the church was handling the pandemic. His mom was able to include a clause in the divorce that required both boys to be taken to church any time were had them in a Sunday, so they'd been unable to escape the indoctrination. (I know, it's messed up.) I talked to him and suggested he have it outside like a pool or a steam where it wouldn't be as dangerous. Instead of making him feel empowered, he felt guilty about anyone getting sick just because they came to his baptism. He had a full panic attack at his mom's. Of course I got the blame and not the church.
my nephew was convinced by the missionaries to be baptized without his parents permission. His grandparents had the party all planned and my brother in law only found out because we got invited and asked about it
I'm not sure how the lessons are now, with the new come follow me curriculum, but that was exactly how I was thought about baptism. It was more of an expectation than a choice
In my opinion religions should be held to the same standards with baptism as people are held to legally with sex. They shouldn’t baptize children, because those children don’t know what they’re getting into, similarly to why there is an age of consent. I think that’s just common sense. I didn’t consent to be baptized I was forced into it, that shouldn’t be legal.
When told to “follow the prophet” which one or ones? When I have conversations with Mormons and I bring up a quote from a former prophet that they don’t agree with, they say he was only speaking as a man. How is a person to know?
My son “chose” not to be baptized because he was afraid of water. We tried 2 times when he was 8. It’s actually what started my husband’s faith crisis. Then when he was 11 the missionaries came and taught him and basically bribed him to get baptized.
I've had a few primary songs come back to me. Give said the little Stream Popcorn poppin. Chose the Wright Ok the last one we sang in Sacrament. They also made us sing I hope they send me on a Mission from the year dot. 😊🗡️ C T R.💍ok it was Green. That tune is going through my head now. I do like helping people and cheering them up. You Americans have given us Brits some slickly sweet tunes to sing over the years. I was always scared of going to Hell or the Out of Darkness. Have a great weekend
My journal entry, being an 8 year old, freshly baptised, was thus: 'today was my baptism. The water was green and looked like koolaid. I'm glad that is done.' then I wrote in my journal a 3 page summary of the goosebumps book I was reading. Says a lot about the mental status of 8 year olds. Accountable?? For their eternal well being?? Cmon, broseph.
I "chose" to be baptized because it just seemed inevitable that I would be anyway, but I didn't really want to be baptized. Now as an adult, I'm angry that my name is on record with the church as a legally binding agreement that I made when I was 8. I feel like that agreement should be immediately null and void without me having to do anything because I do not believe that I consented to be part of this religion. Truly the only thing about my 8th birthday that was special was a little white stuffed sea lion that my grandmother gave me as a gift. I still have it and cherish it as a memory of a sliver of a silver lining that I was desperate to have, even back then.
"Can an 8-year-old really make an informed choice?" Absolutely not. Upon reflection of my own Mormon baptism as a child, I feel that pretending "informed consent" in an eight-year-old is a violation of human rights.
I "chose" to be baptized even though I had 2 inactive parents who drank coffee that morning and I'm sure my dad had a smoke before my "chosen" baptism. Toxic much? EDIT: imagine my surprise that 30 years after l left the church my parents "chose" to go through the temple. Yeah, we all voluntarily made those "choices". 🤔
Aside from this, what always bugged me was that when it comes time to following milestones, like Aaronic priesthood, etc., you are basically threatened, in the D&C, with destruction if you refuse to get them. Essentially you are locked in if you get baptized.
I didn't even know the church forbids abortion - it's crazy the lengths they will go to control people's bodies Also, as a kid who "chose" to be baptized, around the time of my baptism I was constantly asked if I knew what promises I was making to god by being baptized and I couldn't even name 5 things, let alone all of the promises you named off
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I wanna see a story about a Mormon kid who chose NOT to be baptized
Me too!
Oh man, can you imagine that? The entire ward would go ballistic and not rest until that little sinner got right back in line and did the deed. But nah, it's definitely not a cult.
@@mylesmarkson1686lol that’s exactly what happened to me. Ended up getting forcibly baptized, was literally crying while I was being dipped into the water. My parents made up an excuse for why I was crying no one besides my bishop and my immediate family knew I actually had said I wasn’t ready to be baptized yet.
At my local morman church I attended the bishops daughter didn't want to get batized and she was litually crying saying I don't want to . They took her into a room and half hour later she was being baptized and her dad the bishop basically saying she was just overwhelmed with it all and so happy for her day when litually she was screaming she didn't want to half hour before
That was me. I didn't accept any part of the lds church even at a young age.
In 1962, the first day of the first grade, my teacher told me that my name was special, the letter j symbol and sound did not exist in the old english language.
There used to be 19 letters, but now we have 26, and she assured me that I could learn all of them.
About the same time, the lds members wanted me to prepare to be baptisted in a few years.
It hasn't gone good for them since...lol
Forced to be baptized. Punished when I didn't go to church. Made to stand in the corner all day if we played on Sunday or didn't attend the Sunday meeting. Appreciate you, Lexi.
Same here. Got locked in my room for not going to church. Bawled while I was being baptized. Hope you’re doing better.
That is so gross. I am sorry you were treated that way. I remember when I was 9 years old, I had a bad headache on Fast Sunday. I took an aspirin before I went to church. During Sacrament meeting, I got pretty nauseous from taking an aspirin on an empty stomach. I thought I was going to throw up. One of my parents had to take me home. They made me feel so guilty for that.
Later on, when I was a teenager, I used to get horrible menstrual cycles, but they were very regular. I always started on the 3rd Sunday of every month. I would be in so much pain, I had to miss church. I was accused of "faking it" many times.
My grandma tried to get me baptized behind my parents back. I was TERRIFIED of committing my soul to something as a kid! I folded and told my mom about it and she helped me understand that I can choose that when I’m older. My grandma stopped liking me after that and treated me as a lesser grandchild because I “chose to disappoint Heavenly Father”.
When I was 8, the biggest decision I had to make was which Star Wars action figure to get, not the destination of my soul.
Mine was which starter I was going to choose in the next Pokemon game...
As someone who was never LDS (Mormon) it seems to be a strong pattern to say everything is voluntary whilst indoctrinating members from a very young age and exerting HUGE social pressure on everyone.
As exJW we had the same. Age normal JW kid to join to org is 11-15 so abit older than mormons but I know kid that joine age of 9 and there are stories even younger. They told those stories in convention to make kids feel bad that they havent joined yet. The presure is huge. Sadly mormons arent the onyone. And as exJW everyone are shunning me cos I left. My own mom is also shunning me till she or I die or Ill go back (thats not going to happen).
I didn't feel like I had a choice to get baptized or serve a mission. I almost didn't enter the MTC. But the pressure was intense. I left the church a year after my mission. Now all my kids are non Mormon!
You raised them well!
I wasn’t baptized until I was 11 yo because my mother wanted my dad to do the baptism. I absolutely hated that experience, I was starting to develop and it was like being in a wet T-shirt contest everyone wondering what this girl was doing with all these little kids. From that point on I never felt comfortable going to church, but was forced to attend. Even as an adult I was shamed to attend by my mother. I would take my teens to church, until one day I thought why the hell am I forcing my boys to do this. We all three absolutely hated it. So I quit the church and had my name removed from the church rolls and have never been happier, like a big burden off my back.
I was so proud of my niece for not baptising her daughter when she turned eight! 👍I remember thinking when I was baptised it wasn't really optional
This video is ironically posted on my son's 8th Birthday!! Glad I'm not making him "choose" to get baptized. Even as a full blown believer I vocalized how odd it was that we made children "decide" whether or not to get baptized. Always sat wrong with me.
As a Mormon kid I said no to being baptized, I was so scared of sinning again and having it stay with me forever so I told my bishop I didn’t want to be baptized. They decided to move along with the baptism anyways. In the Baptismal Font I was bawling to my dad asking him to please not baptize me because I was scared and wasn’t ready to agree to signing over the rest of my life that was a long time for an 8 year old. In the end none of it mattered I was baptized with puffy eyes and tears streaming down my face. Left when I turned 18. Some kids do say No, you may never hear about it because the stigma you would put on yourself and your family for not getting baptized at 8 is worse than pretending you’re happy.
I’m ashamed to admit that my oldest told the bishop during her baptismal interview that she didn’t want to get baptized and we didn’t accept that answer. Everyone else in our life jumped into convincing her it was the right choice while I got lost in my mind fighting ideas that she needed to be baptized and ideas of the importance of her agency-it was a real mindfuck. She ultimately “chose” to be baptized. She deserved better.
I remember clearly during my i year old interview with my bishop that he never specifically asked me if I wanted to be baptized. As an 8 year old I didn't want to attend cub scouts so I was going to say No I don't want to be Baptistized unless I don't have to attend. Since he never asked I never got to say no (was a nervous kid so didn't speak up). A few weeks later I was baptized and forced to do cub scouts and then had all the expectations of membership and later being a priesthood holder shoved down my throat so I never said no to anything. Really did a number on my confidence. I told my parents before I was baptized and several times later that I never was specifically asked if I wanted to be baptized, they never believed me. Really small thing but It did bug me a lot as a kid I felt I never had a choice.
Did you ‘choose’ to go on a mission? I can’t believe you would have been forced to spend 2 years feeling as you do. I hope all is well with you now and you are getting your confidence back because you are okay no matter what your choices are!😘😘😘
When my youngest turned 8, my wife was thinking he should get baptized. She thought he would want to get baptized since his older siblings had been baptized and all his friends had been getting baptized. She asked him if he wanted to get baptized like his friends have been. His response was, "Yes, I want to be baptized. But, I don't ever want to go to church." Ha ha! Well, that was enough for my wife to agree with me that he doesn't need to be baptized. :)
Dutch ex catholic here. Don't remember anything about being baptized as that was at a few months old. Communion was at 7 and (I think it's called) confirmation at 11 or 12. At neither of the two things to me at the time it felt as if I had a choice. However deciding to leave luckily didn't have the profound consequences that I read about on reddit. It's more like 'We're sorry to see you go, have a good life!'.
It was similar for me in Poland
Why does the creator of the universe need to demand lifelong promises from eight-year old kids? The grand total of promises that I demanded from my kids, never mind lifetime ones, is zero. And they are already adults, so this total will probably continue to be zero forever. God might be able to blow over some dust and make a galaxy, but his skills to raise and educate kids are woeful.
"Don't even get me started on how messed up it is to tell an eight-year-old child that they need to 'repent of their sins'."
I was a missionary in a heavily Mormon populated area and would go through church records to find children who were not baptized at 8. A lot of them had inactive parents, who may or may not have been okay with their child getting baptized. A lot of my baptisms were of children who for whatever reason were not baptized at the "age of accountability".
Hey Lex, i had been a member of the church and was an atheist since I was 15/16, then found out that one of my scout leaders, someone I had loved and trusted since…basically my entire life, had gone to jail for reasons I’ll leave undisclosed. To have been told that after so many years of trusting someone like that and hearing of many other instances like that solidified my inactivity in regards to going to church and my decision to not serve a mission. Having time to myself to think and to see content like this helps me find comfort in my decisions in finding good employment and therapy and soon to be education instead of what might have been the biggest mistake of my life. Thank you from the bottom of my hardened heart for being a beacon of comfort
I have half custody so some choices are not mine to make. My 8 year old son is already developing severe anxiety and low self esteem from all the pressure he gets from the church telling him he that he has sins to repent of or he is going to hell. The emotional trauma is real.
At eight I wanted to eat candy for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
An eight year old cannot make lifelong decisions. I don't understand how this would even be allowed.
Yes, this! I remember NOT wanting to be baptized (Mormon from birth). But I knew I would disappoint my parents, grandparents, etc. and that it was just expected. So, was baptized. Now having a child who will be that age in a few short years, I couldn’t imagine asking them to make that kind of decision and putting that kind of weight on them. There’s no way they would understand even a small fraction of any of it. Much love Lex!! 🖤🖤🖤
I´m a Lutheran from Finland and I was baptized when I was around 2 months old. That´s the norm in my religion, we baptize babies, literally. I´ve only very recently started to question this and to think about leaving the church officially (been inactive most of my life). In my mind baptism should be a choice that an adult makes, a child of any age can´t give an informed consent in a matter this important!
I feel the exact same. Babies and children cannot consent to a legally-binding agreement to join a religion. In some countries, they are also taxed by the government as a condition of their membership. This is definitely a decision for an adult to make, not a child.
When i was eight, i was baptized and remember very little of it. I definitely did not make any covenants or promises of my own volition, because my brain was a child's brain! No eight year old is "accountable".
As a single working mom - my moms church attendance was not consistent and once we moved out of my grandparents house when I was 5 I was also no longer attending regularly with them. I distinctly remember my grandma asking my mom when I was 8 about being baptized and my mom told her it was my choice.
Proud to say I’m a “never mo” and really wish I would have never been blessed as a baby.
When I was baptized, I didn’t even know it was happening that weekend. I woke up on Saturday and instantly got up to play some video games, but my mom told me to get dressed and take a shower, I said why, and she said that I was getting baptized today. They didn’t even ask me if I wanted to.
Sounds like you had a choice in the matter 🤷♂️
Hearing this after the way you've explained it is totally understandable. It's totally crazy!
My dad said I could get baptized and like it, or I could get baptized and hate it. My "choice". Seminary was the same deal. 🙄
LEXIIIIIII!!!!!!!! Today my ward put out an advertisement for a fund raiser that the youth NEED TO participate in to raise money for activities for the rest of the year!!!
As a adult male being baptized at 43. Once the “new convert” stigma wore i off I was nothing but a body filling up space on the pew on Sunday. I was almost certain me being single that someone would of try to set me up with a sister who was looking for a companion. But after 16 months that didn’t happen, nor did I have any success in dating. I reached out to one of my missionaries to see anything could become of us since I thought we had some connection during the lessons. Well that never even got off the ground because she brutally ghosted me never even responded to me. So I abruptly stopped attending. At first members of the bishopric tried to get me to attend but they gave up after I told them I don’t fit in and it’s not for me
Poignant observations & analysis; well done Lex.
Thank you ♥️
I had no idea what baptism even means at age 8, it was just something everyone did and was supposed to be super special and stuff. That's all I knew. I didn't have any clue what I was promising that day. I was too young to comprehend it properly.
Psychology studies say 8-10 is the most socially compliant stage for most kids. A literal baby wouldn’t be tricked into believing they “chose this” or the joy they feel when surrounded and rewarded by family and friends is “the spirit”. Under 8 kids are usually a little more wild and around 12 and up kids are more likely to understand enough to question what they’ve been taught. A lot of exmormon kids weren’t told what law of chastity means or what the word gay means until around twelve. Even if an 8 year old does make a scene in order to get out of a situation they’d get worse looks and comments than a 4 year old doing the same thing. Eight is a very vulnerable age.
I was excited to get dunked at 8 (in 1968) and my best friend at school wanted to get baptised with me. I was shocked, angry and pissed off when my dad told me she couldn't be because mormons think her black skin was a curse. I remember crying for days, praying and asking Jesus to come back now and tell these stupid adults how wrong they were. I refused to get baptised because Jesus didn't come back and set things straight! I thought for he would answer my prayer, and when he didn't I was heartbroken. I was forced to go ahead with it as plans were already made and I would disappoint people if I didn't.😢
Thank you for the shoutout. ❤
As a non Mormon I was invited to a baptism and was astonished by it. There’s no way an 8-year-old can make this decision for themselves at that young of an age. As a parent, I would want my adult child to have the opportunity to learn about many different religions and after much study and thought, then decide if they want to commit to any of them, or none at all.
Your entire early primary experience, is to prepare you for baptism. After baptism, it's to prepare you for the mission. After the mission, is the Celestial marriage preparation. Then kids, and raising them in the same manner.
After that, nothing seems to matter, except, going to the top tier of Heaven.
😇 👼 😇 👼 😇
"Each milestone you achieve, the less likely you are to ever leave."
-my own quote 😢😢😢
Great video Lex!❤
You do so much good and help with this episodes and also being so well educated in the subject , even for people trapped in other similar cults... Love and light from Sweden💚🤟🤟🤟
Baptized in my 8th birthday and a party at the park then swimming pool after. Yeah, no pressure.
Cat lady rules!
The chosen film ad was on this before the video started 😭
IM also sure the entire year after they turn 7 they are prepped for the great day that is coming.
Peer pressure is real. Peer pressure is what keeps people in the church.
Back in the early 70s in sunday school one of the girls brought up she was only baptized to please her parents. The teacher then asked us if we did it for the same reason, all but 1 of us raised our hands. The people I have talk to that wasn't raised religious was only baptized because their friends were getting baptized.
I didn't get to choose. My family are converts and when I was 9 my family and I were taught by the missionaries. My parents decided they wanted to get baptized so the missionaries asked me if I wanted to as well. I really didn't care about church and just liked it because I got to make new friends so I said I was still thinking. The missionaries said that was okay and that I didn't have to be baptized if I wasn't ready. Well that was bullshit because that Sunday they announced that my parents AND ME were going to be baptized. I was so confused because I told them I wasn't sure yet but they announced it to our huge ward so I was too scared to speak up and just went along with it.
I loved the coughing fit
Lexi: “you are expected to follow the prophet…”
Me: …at all times and in all things and in all places.
I love this video! When I turned 8 and got baptized, I remember feeling like I was almost on autopilot, just going along with the bishop interview and the planning and all that because that's just what you do. I for sure didn't feel like I had a choice, but at the same time I wouldn't have chosen anything different at the time if I could have. As a young teenager, when I was the most believing I ever was, I wondered if there was a way to get a do-over since I didn't feel like my baptism was special and I didn't feel 'the spirit' the way everyone else did. Also my baptism dress was my favorite red dress that made me feel like a princess, but I was self concious about it because literally every other girl I knew of had a new pure white dress.
Another thing that bugs me is how the church condemns other denominations for baptizing babies, even though 8 years old isn't much better, especially considering the magnitude of the promises they agree to. From what I understand of baby baptisms or christenings, it's a lot more like a mormon baby blessing than making life-long covenants to a high-demand cult. I could be wrong, but I feel like parents who christen their babies just do it because of tradition, but in practice aren't nearly as strict. Whereas mormon parents will constantly remind kids that they promised to always obey god when they were 8, not to mention the insane level of indoctrination to make that 'choice'.
Baby baptism with other domination stems from a time where child deaths were high and in order to make sure they went to heaven they baptized them as early as possible. They believed they would become lost souls (will-o'-the-wisps) if they were not baptized. There are known cases of priest coming to a stillbirth and performed a quick baptism in hopes the baby would get to heaven. In modern times the traditions stayed, but the original meaning faded.
This is probably by far the most easiest way for the church to get members which is honestly so messed up. I also “chose” to get baptized at 8 because who wouldn’t? Your parents were happy and proud of you, you got to see friends and family, and of course the obvious cake/ ice cream/ pizza party it was pretty much another simple birthday party. They sugarcoat everything by having this whole party for you but they don’t tell you what to expect later because fast forward to next month after the party, I was told to NOT eat one Sunday morning because now that I’m baptized I’m required to fast and skip Breakfast and Lunch and was told to pay money every time I did when I got older 😒😒 I remember getting my first job at the mall in high school and was so excited to spend and save my OWN money, when I told my mom about my first job she was like “Great! But don’t keep ALL that money all to yourself because you have to give 10 percent to church 🤡🤡” Like at this point I just started eating on those Sundays lol and I tried to act like I “forgot” and be like “Whoops I forgot fast Sunday was today looks like I will have to do it another day.” And I don’t do it the next day because my mom will completely forget over the week but yeah I “chose” to be baptized for pizza and ice cream NOT to starve myself OR have a grown man ask me if I’m “watching” anything (had to keep it clean for RUclips lol) 🤢🤢
This is when I first questioned the church: when I was 8! Someone asked me as a part of a baptism interview: do you want to be baptized? I remember thinking ‘ I didn’t know I had a choice. ‘
I appreciate this video SO MUCH! The indoctrination of children is literally my biggest pet peeve when it comes to religion. You touched on literally everything I was thinking! My grandparents bribed me into getting baptized. And I never actually saw the money. My parents always told me it went into my mission fund, but never did that either and still to this day, no idea where that $500 went… the boy who was being baptized after me had to get dunked 4 times because the poor little guy was scared to death of the water! Kid was hysterical afterwards and everyone was told that he was just so overcome by the spirit 🙄
According to the law that is child abuse. Dunking a kid in the water 4 times when they are scared to death. It is torturing on a next level..
Even at 8 yrs old, I knew I wasn’t a TBM but still was baptized anyways because my parents didn’t even ask me to give me the “choice”. The only choice they gave me was either choosing my dad or older brother to baptize me. Of course I never was going to tell them I didn’t want to be baptized because what would they do? They would have got angry with me and forced me to do it anyways, so what’s the point of going through that
My father was a convert in 1977. I turned 8 and was baptized. I didn’t have the inculcation like you did. It was very confusing as a child especially since my mother didn’t convert, neither did my brother. He was 12 and was already smoking weed. They stayed married for decades and made it a complete hell in my house. My dad and mom fighting about the church and us kids being exposed to a horror I wont describe. My last day, ever, in a Sunday school class I asked the teacher, “so if a Chinese man lives the life of Christ just by being a good guy, never hears the name Jesus, does he he go to heaven…?” She said “no”. I laughed and walked out, “that makes no sense”. I was 12. I was my mothers child. Always will be. Still holding my ground against my abusive and now old and losing his mind because of this shit father….it’s a struggle. Thanks for all you do. You make me brave. All of us. And I love many Mormons! The people. Some beautiful souls. Peace out!
9:05 “obey and honor the law” except when it comes to violating tax laws and creating shell companies to try and skirt SEC regulations.
Love!
Hey exmo Lex!
Dont forget the church also says you promise to serve a mission when you are baptized against your will when you turn 18. If i known that i would of thrown a temper tantrum and said Hell No at the age of 8!
At my baptism, with about 3 other kids, the bishop asked us the definition of 'covenant', since we were about to make this sacred important one with HEAVENLY FATHER. Kind of a big deal, apparently. Not one of the 4 of us knew what the word covenant meant. And the bishop was appalled and belittled us for not knowing. Good sir, we are EIGHT years old!!?? We're reading The Babysitters Club House books, sorry our vocabulary isn't up to par. We're thinking about how to persuade our mom into buying us glitter pens, not entering cult pacts for our eternal souls, signed in our own blood. But, apparently, 8 is the age of accountability, yes, definitely, mhmm, nodding vigorously.
Glad we got out when we did. My daughter is nearly 7. It hasn't been all that long since we stopped attending, and she still asks from time to time about why we don't go anymore. My wife still believes in prayer and God, but I'm feeling indifferent to it all. God can exist, but I don't know that I believe he exists, and don't really care anymore.
I cringe so hard every time a Facebook friend posts about their 8 year-old choosing to be baptized.
This is so great. Reading the actual nursery lesson plan content to show how transparently coercive this all is from the very beginning. Sometimes I'm overwhelmed with frustration and sadness about this, for those of us who were indoctrinated in these ways as vulnerable little children.
All I remember about my baptism is my elderly grandpa warmly congratulating me (which I did not understand), getting little presents and everyone coming over for cake and ice cream. I never put any thought into my "choice" or the "promises" I was making. It was just a milestone everyone did.
I've seen these posts from friends on facebook. One such post the parent proclaimed that the child had studied other religions and chose LDS. Really at 8? I highly doubt the parents were driving to the local synagogue or mosque to learn more. Also I attended an LDS church once with roommate from college and it was testimony day and I saw little kids being taken up by their parents and parents whispering into their ear and the kids would robotically say, "I believe the church is true" and other declarations that at 8 I don't think they would actually know.
At age 8, I didn't even think about church very much. I did dig a hole in the back yard to see if Hell was under the dirt, but I didn't find anything.
Dark Shadows and trains were the coolest things in the world to me at age 8.
Choices in the Mormon church are very often like flow charts that all lead to "yes."
Even as a non-Mormon, I can relate. I grew up southern Baptist. We were taught about it from a young age as well, and celebrated like it was a big deal when we decided to get baptized. I was nine years old when I mentioned to my parents that I wanted to get baptized. My dad went with me to talk to the preacher, and I was so shy that I wouldn’t even answer the preachers questions, and he still signed me up for baptism and I was baptized. They truly had no clue if I understood any of it at all, I really don’t think I did. All I knew is that everyone would be proud of me. I did not leave the church until in my 20s. But countless times through my life I would wonder if I was really saved because I didn’t even remember understanding baptism. It’s so ridiculous.
"However, we need not limit our [fast offering] contribution to the cost of two meals. We are encouraged to be as generous as our means allow." And the church is more than delighted to allow you to continue to believe that if you donate more, then that will translate into the church doing more humanitarian aid to help feed more people in need. (The extra contribution certainly doesn't just get put into an already obscenely huge hedge fund.... Jesus wouldn't allow that in his church! 😏) I absolutely grew up thinking that that's how it worked as a kid, and it was absolutely what my parents thought--or at least what they told me. It's shamelessly fraudulent.
I need to represent the trauma survivors out there who were baptized under duress. And a huge amount of stress. I couldn’t have cared less about being baptized; I just did what I was told and was under an enormous amount of stress because I was baptized by my narcissistic sociopath father who was absolutely not “worthy” to do so. He kept messing up the words he had to say and had to keep redoing it and i knew he was getting increasingly angry with himself and someone would have to pay for that later. I never felt any “spirit” or “Holy Ghost.” I only felt stress, fear and constant pressure. Of course there was no party or celebrating; I was just content to escape my father and the f***** font when it was finished.
100% all of this! As an ExMo, my daughter is about to turn 8 so I have been waiting for my parents breach the subject of her getting baptized. I've never heard of a kid saying no to making the "choice." Who would disappoint their parents like that? There is only 1 acceptable answer.
It took me witnessing a first communion (their sacrament) at Catholic school to question this logic. It's also why when I gave up the church, I gave up religion entirely...or at least anything Abrahamic.
Your reciting of the 10 commandments triggered a memory. I went to 12 years of Catholic school. In second or third grade, my religion textbook explained the commandments one by one. Most were straightforward: "Honor thy father and thy mother" meant be a good kid and obey your parents. When the book got to "thou shalt not commit adultery" there was a picture of this priest holding up a chalice. And he said we had to keep our thoughts, words and deeds as pure as the chalice. I wondered, in so many words, what that had anything to do with the price of rice in China.
And it goes without saying that the nuns never told us what adultery really was. Even though we had to memorize all the commandments word for word.
Exactly! Just go to any baptism for an 8-year old Mormon child and you'll notice one thing: The adult speakers know they're addressing a literal child so the messages have no depth. They are basically, "Listen to your mom and dad, be like Jesus, listen to the holy ghost if you get mad at your siblings, help your parents with chores, etc." That's a literal child that was indoctrinated and has no idea what they're doing. They didn't "choose" to be baptized. They're a child that is taken to church every Sunday whether they like it or not. They have been fed Mormonism their entire life. They have been made to repeat lines about being baptized when they're 8, about going to the temple, about listening to the Mormon prophet, etc. They have been taught by the Mormon church that being baptized into the Mormon church is wonderful (how convenient). They witness their friends getting baptized when they're 8 and there's presents and cake. So then when they turn 8 and they're asked, do you want to get baptized, what in the world do you think a child that has been through all that indoctrination and brainwashing is going to say? Obviously, yes.
Also, what a coincidence that all of these kids "choose" to be baptized right when they turn 8. It's the machine. It's brainwashing. It's indoctrination.
I've never been Mormon, but this DEFINITELY reads like child marriage to me? like you see these fairy tale weddings your whole life and your only concept of it is Big Party, Pretty Dress, I get to spend forever with the person i love the most in the world, and even better, it's **expected** of me? But you're 8, so you have no concept of a prenuptial agreement, divorce, domestic violence, or that you might be too trusting and people want to take advantage of that.
If child marriage is widely considered wrong, why would this be considered a good idea?
Love how so many Mormons feel like 8 year old kids should make choices about their eternal soul but apparently can’t understand their own gender identity/s 💀
I’m Catholic. I did my first communion at age eight because it was expected. It never occurred to me to say no. You just did it. Eight year olds are like that.
i didn't want to be baptized, didn't enjoy the process, and felt guilty for not having a "proper testimony" because as a tiny little eight year old child the most spiritual conviction i had was like. my dad helped me find a blanket i lost and said it was the holy ghost. 0/10
the only part that didnt suck was, of course, the treats. even then tho it was an overall miserable experience because the adults were celebrating around me and i was just kinda incredibly lonely lmao
The only thing I actually cared about when I was baptized was the free gifts and the warm water 😂
At that age I chose to do what I saw would allow me to still be loved by my parents. I also wanted presents.
I was forced to be baptized
Not for me. I wanted to please my mother because I am the eldest daughter. I felt like I *had* to get baptized. Now I see it as this: If God wanted me to make a secret pact with him, that's between my Gods and I.
Yes, Gods.
At 8 most cant choose what candy bar they want
I feel like the specific wording of "choosing" to be baptized helps to assuage the guilt that parents feel for indoctrinating their kids. If it's the kid's "choice" then the parents didn't force them to do it, even if they essentially did.
As the oldest child in my family and in my primary class (born in Jan), I felt somewhat responsible to set the example for my siblings and friends. I also had a less-active (but still fully believing) father who I felt I could help by asking him to baptize me. So although I felt like I was choosing to be baptized benevolently, I now see how much pressure I was also under. I don’t remember a lot about it since it was so long ago, and I was so young. But I do remember the circumstances and responsibility I felt surrounding it.
There was no choice for me so I told my son that he couldn't get baptized until he forced me to accept that he chose it. We didn't have a great celebration or anything, it was just another day. When he asked for the 3rd time, I still said no... but he was insistent. Then, when he was 18, he left. I was like, what? Then I left too!
Hard to remember anything from almost 24 years ago, but I don't believe I was given a choice. Whenever baptism was discussed, it was always "when" and not "if." I had no idea what I was agreeing to. It was something my brother did, and so I wanted to do it
The youngest Jehovah's witness that was baptized was 5 🤢
Yeah it wasn't a choice, especially in my abusive home. The only choice I had was who performed the baptism. I worry that encouraging the idea that an 8 yr old is capable of making such a choice and can fully understand that commitment is dangerous. It lends to the idea that many predators have that children 'choose' to have sex with them or wanted it.
I think my brother does a good job of actually letting his kids chose things like baptism. He's absolutely LDS, and very devout, but his parenting style is much more about allowing for informed consent and respecting boundaries. They even had a discussion about why they were wearing masks during 2021, and his kids were the only ones to wear masks in their classes. I do think it's possible for kids to chose to be baptized, but it really comes down to parenting styles and respectful boundaries.
My oldest step son turned 8 in July 2020. I was already on the path of leaving the church and hyper aware of how the church was handling the pandemic. His mom was able to include a clause in the divorce that required both boys to be taken to church any time were had them in a Sunday, so they'd been unable to escape the indoctrination. (I know, it's messed up.) I talked to him and suggested he have it outside like a pool or a steam where it wouldn't be as dangerous. Instead of making him feel empowered, he felt guilty about anyone getting sick just because they came to his baptism. He had a full panic attack at his mom's. Of course I got the blame and not the church.
my nephew was convinced by the missionaries to be baptized without his parents permission. His grandparents had the party all planned and my brother in law only found out because we got invited and asked about it
I'm not sure how the lessons are now, with the new come follow me curriculum, but that was exactly how I was thought about baptism. It was more of an expectation than a choice
In my opinion religions should be held to the same standards with baptism as people are held to legally with sex. They shouldn’t baptize children, because those children don’t know what they’re getting into, similarly to why there is an age of consent. I think that’s just common sense. I didn’t consent to be baptized I was forced into it, that shouldn’t be legal.
Yes, Mormonism is coercive.
When told to “follow the prophet” which one or ones?
When I have conversations with Mormons and I bring up a quote from a former prophet that they don’t agree with, they say he was only speaking as a man.
How is a person to know?
My son “chose” not to be baptized because he was afraid of water. We tried 2 times when he was 8. It’s actually what started my husband’s faith crisis. Then when he was 11 the missionaries came and taught him and basically bribed him to get baptized.
I've had a few primary songs come back to me. Give said the little Stream Popcorn poppin. Chose the Wright Ok the last one we sang in Sacrament. They also made us sing I hope they send me on a Mission from the year dot. 😊🗡️ C T R.💍ok it was Green. That tune is going through my head now. I do like helping people and cheering them up. You Americans have given us Brits some slickly sweet tunes to sing over the years. I was always scared of going to Hell or the Out of Darkness. Have a great weekend
My journal entry, being an 8 year old, freshly baptised, was thus: 'today was my baptism. The water was green and looked like koolaid. I'm glad that is done.' then I wrote in my journal a 3 page summary of the goosebumps book I was reading. Says a lot about the mental status of 8 year olds. Accountable?? For their eternal well being?? Cmon, broseph.
I "chose" to be baptized because it just seemed inevitable that I would be anyway, but I didn't really want to be baptized. Now as an adult, I'm angry that my name is on record with the church as a legally binding agreement that I made when I was 8. I feel like that agreement should be immediately null and void without me having to do anything because I do not believe that I consented to be part of this religion. Truly the only thing about my 8th birthday that was special was a little white stuffed sea lion that my grandmother gave me as a gift. I still have it and cherish it as a memory of a sliver of a silver lining that I was desperate to have, even back then.
"Can an 8-year-old really make an informed choice?" Absolutely not. Upon reflection of my own Mormon baptism as a child, I feel that pretending "informed consent" in an eight-year-old is a violation of human rights.
I "chose" to be baptized even though I had 2 inactive parents who drank coffee that morning and I'm sure my dad had a smoke before my "chosen" baptism. Toxic much?
EDIT: imagine my surprise that 30 years after l left the church my parents "chose" to go through the temple. Yeah, we all voluntarily made those "choices". 🤔
I “chose” to get baptized at 8 years because I wanted to be a “good” boy. Not because I really knew the church was true.
A baptism of an 8 year old is the Catholic equivalent of getting the 1st Communion.
Aside from this, what always bugged me was that when it comes time to following milestones, like Aaronic priesthood, etc., you are basically threatened, in the D&C, with destruction if you refuse to get them. Essentially you are locked in if you get baptized.
I didn't even know the church forbids abortion - it's crazy the lengths they will go to control people's bodies
Also, as a kid who "chose" to be baptized, around the time of my baptism I was constantly asked if I knew what promises I was making to god by being baptized and I couldn't even name 5 things, let alone all of the promises you named off
All I remember is my foot coming off the ground when they dunked me, and boy, was that ever a big "no-no"!