Heaven's Helpline: The Podcast that SHOOK the Mormon Church
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2025
- Heaven’s Helpline by Murray Jones is “a six-part investigation into how the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints built a system that protects its wealth and reputation - and shields sexual predators from the law.” It was released weekly between October 17th and November 14th.
I'm joined by individuals who were interviewed for the series, to talk about the process and what they think the impact of this podcast will be.
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This is spot on. As a bishop, I was verbally abused, threatened with lawsuit, stalked and threatened with death. The abuser literally told me that “the scriptures would justify me killing you” more than once. I called the bishops helpline and they connected me with Kirton McConkie. They asked me two questions: “Does he own a gun?” (How would I know until he shoots me?) and “Is there any chance he could harm the reputation of the church?” Absolutely no regard for me, my family, or the rest of the congregation.
Unspeakable!👹
Oh wow. I'm so sorry.
@@CarlosRodriguez-hb3vq far out!
Hi highly doubt that.
@@laronjackson447 doubt what?
I spent all summer 2018 with Sam Young, downtown slc trying to get the church to stop taking children alone behind closed doors with leaders, one on one.
They didn't care.
But Sam Young got excommunicated for his efforts. He read his letter to us across from the SLC temple, and it hurt him. He had been a good bishop and a good man. I miss him so much. He helped me so much.
When i finally told someone, at age 13, i was being SA They told me to just try harder not to get alone with my stepfather predator.
I later had a bishop who turned out to be a predator too.
They told all 5 girls 'you don't want to harm the good name of the Lord's church do you?'
And they offered us free LDS counseling if we stayed quiet about it.
Everyone agreed.
Then when that very same bishop found out i had an abortion at 16 while still at home with abusers, he yelled at me for 3 hours in his office, and i left wanting to kill myself and wishing i had never been born.
Lovely church. I laugh at people who try to stick up for it, saying people aren't being fair in their criticisms.
They are fools who have no idea what they are defending.
I’m so sorry to hear that and so glad you’re still here to share your story and fighting to protect others ❤
@SilentThundersnow - Well then we must have YOU to thank for tge change in Policy enacted YEARS ago !
I can give details 8f asked , but there have been MASS8VE CHANGES in Chirch Policy , _including_ PROSECUTION , put in place YEARS AGO .
To pretend otherwise us OATENTLY *DISHONEST* and _intentionally_ DECEPTIVE .
@@SilentThundersnow liar.
@@chuckintexas The LDS Church literally defended NOT reporting known child sexual abuse in AZ, when they absolutely could have legally reported the abuse and helped those children. There are no massive changes in church abuse policy. If the LDS Church can get away with not reporting abuse, they don't report... and they'll leave LDS children in danger of secret pedophiles in the ward.
@@WatchingwaitingG2D Do you understand how ironic your statement is? Think about it.
I am LDS. I am also from Alberta Canada. I am concerned with all the historical + problems that the church's headquarters is trying to hide from its members. So sad!
Thank you for the information, as members we are blinded, shielded in many ways, from these things.
Joseph Smith was an extreme racist. 8 of his 34-ish wives were under-age girls. He started a pyramid scheme fake bank. He used his mob to destroy the press and office of a local newspaper that was critical of him. He lied about Jews being the ancestors of the Indians. Archaeology has proved that the civilizations, battles, and cities, described in the Book of Mormon never existed. He provably lied about translating the Book of Abraham. He was convicted of defrauding people by selling the "locations" of buried gold that did not exist. The church was started by an evil con-man who appeared to be in it for the money and sex.
It is not surprising that the church has problems. It was there at the beginning. Smith abused his position by sending men away to England so he could marry their wife. Yes, Smith practiced polyandry as well as polygamy. He also married sisters, and at least one mother & daughter pair.
As far as I can tell, it has less abuse and immorality that it had under Smith and Young's leadership, but it has a long way to go to get rid of the institutional abuses that were started by Joseph Smith.
And constantly gaslit…🤢
Just remember that though the church is corrupt and false, Jesus is still very much real. Christianity has had problems in the past but find a good biblical church in your area. There is freedom and joy to be found in Christ that just isn’t found in Mormonism.
@ There is zero contemporary evidence that Jesus existed, however he may well have been a real person. But even if he was real, it is impossible to know exactly what he did, or did not say or do. The myths in the Bible are very contradictory and were written decades after the supposed events so cannot be considered reliable. But what does it matter anyway? We know that magic is not real, and no one has ever demonstrated that a supernatural realm exists. So as much as I am critical of Mormonism, all the other churches, which all share the same history of racism, misogyny, and homophobia are no better than the Mormon nonsense.
This might be unpopular but when I learned the Church had these major problems, I looked as honestly as I could at early Church history. What I've found in the documents is that it was Brigham and Joseph were not buddies at all. It was Brigham who likely brought polygamy into the church from his time with the Cochranites, he also likely got the Church involved in Free Masonry. There are church history documents where he talks about murdering people who leave the church. He was a bad dude.
I leave space open that Joseph may have been legit doing the God's work but was stabbed in the back by the Brigham supporters. Their attachment to Joseph (and thereby claiming legitimacy) is a fraud. Which is where we find ourselves today. People accuse the LDS church of being founded by Joseph, but the reality is, it's Brigham's church.
I'm a nevermo but live in the LDS heartland of Canada (Alberta). These issues break my heart for my neighbours. I believe all adults here are mandatory reporters and it's disturbing to think church leaders may be receiving incorrect/illegal guidance.
From Lethbridge perhaps? Me too.
@lindaharding2057 Im in the Edmonton area but grew up in a small town. Have family friends down south. Sigh.
I don’t think they’re receiving guidance that’s illegal. It sounds like the church is much more concerned about the legality of reporting than of doing the right thing in the cases described in the podcast.
You mean Cardston?
I absolutely love that even though i live in New Zealand, i heard about the podcast from a USA RUclipsr (Allysa Greenfell) and now im watching a commentary about it from the UK. Members of the Five eyes working together
@Sara Delaney's comments throughout this episode are so spot on!!!!! Senior church officials don't like outside-in or bottom-up activism on this or other topics, but there appears to be no desire on their part to change or acknowledge problems otherwise. Great episode, team.
@MAJdrdtucker In her HATE-BASED NEED to INSULT what she *doesn't * understand , she COMPLETELY **_MISSES_** that this HAS been DEALT WITH , as do *you* , and that Church Policy HAS been corrected on this , and that this happened YEARS ago .
To pretend OTHERWISE is PATENTLY *FALSE* and _INTENTIONALLY_ *DECEPTIVE* .
I can go into detail with any GENUINE questioning , but I REFUSE to deal with DIMINUTIVE PERSONAL INSULT , which will ONLY be called out and then
SUMMARILY DISMISSED .
@@MAJdrdtucker quiet pretender.
@MAJdrdtucker you don't even believe in God or belong to any religion or church. Hypocrisy at it's best.
Heaven’s Helpline was an incredible podcast. Amazing reporting . And thank you all for this RUclips show.
Got to love this international team of amazing commentators.
LOVE YOU NEMO!!!!!!! YOUR JOURNEY CONTINUES IN THE NAME OF “TRUITH.” MUCH LOVE & BLESSINGS IN THE NAME OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST! MERRY CHRISTMAS!
Great interview Nemo. I like that you had an active New Zealand member who has concerns. Will be watching Heaven’s Helpline.
Thanks!
No problem!
I have listened to it in downtown salt lake❤ acknowledgment of the past is a great healing balm as we decide how to move forward individually and as a church. So much more education around these tragic issues would be the Saviors way begin to heal and bring justice to the victims.
My wish for us all, is that we may all stop trying to look good and just do the right thing.
“Do the next right thing “ has almost become a mantra.
Sending blessings of healing and justice and doing better for the world we leave our children, so they don’t have to suffer through corruption and shame that we did and can focus on “ love one another”.
Oops I forgot I’m a girl and can’t give blessings. And, hm I did it anyway when I understood I didn’t need anyone else to give me permission to make the world a better place. How about that🎉❤
@@Daniela_Explored fake.
Love your comment , and I agree .
@@scottmolen4476 you would, poser.
@@Daniela_Explored maybe if you believed in God and followed commandments? Good luck with that. Sex before marriage is a sin.
@@WatchingwaitingG2Dliar
I know from personal experience that pride, arrogance, cover-up of abuse, etc is not only at the upper levels of the LDS church. Bishops and Stake Presidents are also guilty of this. Not all; but way too many. There is entirely too much power given to untrained men who think they speak for God, top to bottom.
Untrained ?
And YOUR "Training" What - _you_ don't need "training" with YOUR _personal_ experience ? Do you HEAR yourself ? WE do .
NO .
Your characterization with _some_ *generalized* "way too much" reveals the personal PREJUDICE and _ANGST_ *you* bring - your _PERSONAL- *BIAS* .
We ALL have personal "Bias" .
The DIFFERENCE is that not ALL - as _you_ have *here* - attempt to _cover_ their bias - their PREJUDICE - by broadly unspecific implied _innuendo_ , HOPING to cast doubt on something clearly *NOT* well *_UNDERSTOOD_* .
While NO ONE is Perfect_ , most of ALL "untrained men" , untrained men _and_ women , DEDICATING their _lives_ for *NO PAY* to something they _believe in_ and TRULY *LOVE*
_can_ and DOES
work _GENUINE_
*MIRACLES* !
@chuckintexas I'm not trained as a mental health therapist, a financial advisor, a marriage counselor, etc, but I have the good sense not to pretend that God has given me the authority to tell others how to solve their problems with counsel that actual professionals have told me was terrible counsel. "Abuse," in fact, is a word that has been used. Using capitals and italics throughout your rant doesn't make the things you write suddenly become well thought out or correct, BTW.
@@chuckintexas
Only MIRACLE is that those who stay in stay alive.
@@chuckintexas
MAJJJJORKKKA.
@@chuckintexas you are a complete IDIOT
That summary by Ganesh was just bloody brilliant!
Never Mormon from Wisconsin. I listened to the entire series. Incredibly/disturbingly sad & appalling.
For a church that claims to be the only true church…this abuse scandal is a wake up call that something is seriously wrong with how the church deals with this.
You live a lie.
@@WatchingwaitingG2D your comment has nothing to do with OP’s and if you have a problem with cracking down on abuse within the church you don’t belong in society
@kirkharrington1508
By the LOWEST BAR-measure possible, this corporation was conceived in the pit and just its presence there eats away at the bottom of it.
@@kirkharrington1508 It's bs like you are.
@@rusochileno639 quiet pretender. You're just a fake.
South African here.MyTBM sister's brother in law ,whilst serving as a bishop in SA,repeatedly sexually abused his own daughter over a period of many years.He was never excommunicated for this,but subsequently for financial impropriety.Three of his chidren now live in the US and have no dealings with their father.The victim,my niece,has subsequently qualified as a therapist and is actively opposed to the church.My own sister has three adult chidren now living in NZ(Auckland)Needless to say,my brother in law,also a bishop supports the church's stance and not the testimony of the victim,his own niece!
@@haslergray9888 speechless.
@haslergray9888
This PRINCIPLE OF matter-of-fact church OPERATION causes snakes to erupt from my head!
On WHAT do these people
base this onerous "tradition"???
WHAT?
I am a member of the United States of America. There was was once abuse within it's borders. I'm now leaving the country for a perfect place where nobody lives and no bad things ever happen. By the way. I was raised by wolves and now I hate wolves. sarc Of coarse you can find bad in any good thing. Now tell me a good story about selfless love to a perfect stranger that you also witnesed. Do you work for the main stream media? I served a mission to South Africa and witnessed countless kind acts by it's members. Repeat after me: "There is a bad part to every good thing". If you have a job you know this is true. Telestial is tough by design. ❤❤❤❤❤
@@bryanpons6585 this is not about how there is no good. The conversation is about bad things happening that ARE NOT DEALT WITH.
As a fellow South African now living in the USA, I’m sad to hear of that tragedy within your extended family.
California extended the statue of limitations back to the 1940s. The L.A. Archdiocese is paying $1.5 billion to settle most claims.
There's more to this. It's the mentally that the victim is at fault, especially if female.
@@JamieLozoya-Davis or, .just as bad, the victim is completely irrelevant, unimportant. All that matters is A Priesthood Holder. No one speaks for the victim. In fact, the victim is lucky if she/he is allowed to give details of assault and, in some cases, may not even have the language to explain it.
Excellent podcast!
You are each, individually, so articulate in outlining the issues.
Sara reaches my heart.
You all do.
That being said, at 72, I am no longer a believer in any religious ideology.
Escaped at 18.
Nemo, you have already exceeded your previous bests!
THANK GOD for the "new" venue, albeit "forced".
You wore your stunned pain
WITHOUT apology or shame,
in unself-conscious honesty.
[Ha, Peter! "The exhausted elderly"!] 💕
Let it be said of all in your company as can be said of one.
And let it be said of/ to the "church",
"See here, now, what YOU HAVE DONE. And then
CONSIDER what the Sovereign of the
Universe
has made of it in spite of
your driving, subversive
WILL. TO. POWER."
🌈LET🌈THERE
🌈BE
🌈LIGHT.
Absolutly adore Ganeshs comment 'a brown Jesus!'. 🎉🎉🎉
The New Zealanders and Pacific Islanders have drifted across to Australia. Where I live they are now embody the dominant culture. Very interesting for this long time member to see.
confused - are you talking specifically about Mormon culture?
Yes, do you mean people from Nz and the pacific islands have moved into wards and changed the culture?
@@HannahMitchell-Art brought their culture with them
@@helenr4300 for me, yes, but as I understand it, their “culture” is more than just church culture; it embraces their whole culture as that term is understood in sociological terms. Whole families are members of the same Church. For an individual member like me in the Church I must move between Americanised church culture and my own upbringing in Australia - two quite different ways of living.
@@helenr4300 yes
Even when safeguarding policies are in place systems fail; to not even do the basics [praise the UK avengers team for forcing this here] is to be beyond complacent
the beatle we all live in a yellow submarine mormon zion peace and love in 2024
Loving this panel of insightful people placing Mormon “Cult”ure”under scrutiny👏
If the church is being run like a business, I want to see the first presidentcy comission an EY/Deloitte strategy report to see which policies have the best chance of retaining the highest a mouth of tithe payers!
Cant wait to listen and do my own commentary 🙏
Intergenerational leadership trauma: "We give nor seek apologies" D H Oaks, mentioning LDS traumas of the past.
“Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you” (Matthew 5:44)
“Ye ought to forgive one another; for he that forgiveth not his brother his trespasses standeth condemned before the Lord; for there remaineth in him the greater sin” (Doctrine and Covenants 64:9-10)
Humility is a word he's not familiar with.
That's just the point, the church doesn't forgive.
Part of repentance IS forgiveness, but the greater part is making RETRIBUTION as far as you are able . This means perpetrators must be brought to justice .
That said , I see no direct input here from anyone except anti and ex-mormons . Some lip-service is paid to "I'm a member" , but that is DISCARDED almost _immeduately_ , in favor of Non-mormon related cintrivances . "Such wonderful journalism" measured SOLELY on the ability to weave a "narrative" by someone OUTSIDE the culture who has pre-determined to DISLIKE that culture _really_ "studying it allot" . I'm Not seeing ANYTHING from _actual_ MORMON voices knowledgeable on the subject.
There ARE *PLENTY* , just none referenced _here_ .
We have extensive safeguards in place , none of which are examined for how such safeguards can still fail . Were _ANY_ of these "Safeguards" _examined_ in detail , we'd see no result worse than a reflection of society as a whole , and actually , a far better environment than can be found in both society as a whole AND as compared to other "World - _WIDE_ "
"Religions" .
No one is going to claim it's non-existent , but I see no attention to _either_ context OR the nature of the problem _itself_ , only that NOT ALL of the members "love the church" and "all is well" .
This woman is filled with anger and poison of her own . NOT a reliably honest source of insight .
Gotta FIND someone UNHAPPY about the Church in general , and maybe IN SPECIFIC to help build "The Narrative" .
PURPOSE of "The NARRATIVE " ? Harm the public perception of the Church, hating that were dressed well , and attacking things without offering any _genuine_ insight .
There is ALWAYS a "forum" for ANYONE to speak out over GENUINE problems as they occur - Go to THE POLICE and to THE PRESS !
We are NEVER "told" to maintain "Secrecy" , or that we are "SINNING" if we call out the problems . Thos is PATENTLY *FALSE* .
To claim such is an OUTRIGHT _INTENTIONAL DECEPTION_ .
@p.s.anders - That's YOUR _intentional_ misunderstanding . Of COURSE there's "forgiveness" - as a FUNNCTION of *REPENTANCE* , including LEGAL .
To pretend _otherwise_ is INTENTIONAL *DISHONESTY* .
@@chuckintexas You nailed it perfectly. I'm glad you bring up "Legal", "Dishonesty", and Repentance. Go read the SEC Order (not the press release) and see what illegalities Oaks personally put his name to. Then we can have a discussion about what it means in the leadership handbook that a member should have a disciplinary membership council for any financial crimes a member has engaged in privately or professionally - and it goes without saying, in the Church while handling the Lord's sacred funds.
If the church asserts that no abuse takes place, why did they institute open classrooms doors during Sunday school/
Peter Bleakley is so cute 🥰
@@hestebeibien that accent!
Thank you. Watching from Alaska. 🤔
Governments and Church do not want to be transparent with their funds.
Not seeing a link for the podcast in case others might be interested 😢
diving in the darkness of canadian law on my laptop isaiah 4 zion whit elisiah key s to seal in heaven in 2024
If someone is hurting others no matter what it is, it should be mandatory to report. The church should not hide behind the faith. I don't believe either Heavenly Father nor Jesus Christ would condone the church protecting the abusers.
I was taught Heavenly Father would not let us be led astray by the leaders.
50 min - Would love to hear a Mormon/ JW (ex?) review of 'Everyone else burns' as a TV comedy
Sorry, is it just me, or is there no link and just the description of Heaven's Helpline in the description box?
You can Google it, and listen to the podcast yourself.
@@gregbaker2377
I keep trying thro' BBC, 60
mins., New Zealand, etc. No success yet.
29:00 legal review! Everything the church does goes through legal review. No doubt…tscc is run by lawyers. It’s also why most of the top leadership are lawyers.
⚠️ 🙏 Please make sure the sound is balanced between each of the speakers. It can be extremely difficult to listen to otherwise. 💥📣
41:13 a persecution complex is built into Christianity as a whole from the foundation
Persecution complex is a huge problem in the Mormon church and always will be.
Can you speak about a Book published by a Former Mormon Bishop called ( out of the Bishops closet ) ? He reavealed hidden truth that deals with gay marriage in Navoo. You could purchase it at Barnes & Noble book store here in Utah.
How can I find the documentary Peter brought up or was it something else about “let everyone burn”?
My understanding is SA is equally common in LDS culture as any other-- that is, about 30% of girls and 18% of boys experience some degree of abuse by age 18. (These are US statistics.) You have to ask if Mormon leaders' flagrant refusal to address this problem arises from guilt.
So in society 8n general we see appalling numbers , but that's the fault of Church leaders ? Reread your own comment and try to come to any other conclusion , based on what you put there .
I'm sure the incidence starts/started at a similar rate, but institutional protection of predators surely has to increase their prevalence over time...
@@chuckintexassociety in general seems to agree that covering it up is bad.
@@chuckintexas ???
@@Kellethorn No, these are current stats which however have been pretty consistent over many decades and across cultures.
Sadly if the church took council from the front line (ward level) it would ultimately mean that God is not at the helm of the work.
Looks like Jesus’s brother has taken the reins…🤫
Holy crap I’m 46 minutes into your podcast (admittedly I’m skipping around). I still haven’t found the part where you’re talking about specifically heaven’s helpline. That was the title for your podcast. Do you discuss this heavens helpline anywhere or is that just a fake come on?
Excellent podcast interesting about Denmark BTW nemo jsmmie dodgers are herrlich.
You’re doing great work. Important work. Please keep it up. However… I wish you’d cut back on the gladhanding at the beginning of the podcast, the introductions, the welcomes, all the happy worm small talk. A lot of us don’t have time for that we’re working jobs, raising families. Can you just get to the meet sooner. Thank you.
But in Utah the church makes the law?
Most of the lawmakers in Utah are Mormon.
Has influence on many law makers
@@goodshepard00
ANOTHER
Bad STATE of affairs. 🤢🤢
88% of our legislatures are Mormon.
Is the Church shrinking in NZ? I would argue that it is stagnant. As Ganesh said, the census data shown a 200 person increase in those who identify as LDS from 54,123 in 2018 to 54,348 in 2023.
Meanwhile, the numbers identifing with the broader category of Christian FELL by 102,543 from 2018 to2023.
The proportion of people with ‘No religion’ steadily increased from 41.9 percent (1,635,348) in 2013, to 48.2 percent (2,264,601) in 2018, and 51.6 percent (2,576,049) in 2023."
Oh so then...latter-day revelation.. follow the lawyer!
And the money….🤑
people need community and tribal connections so when people realize they've joined a cult its hard to move away because they feel where will they go? anyone trying to create a community will gather followers and have a false tale of miraclesand other non verifiable spiritual aspects no doubt helps with conning people into it
Petition to never abbreviate the podcast as HH...
Nemo can be an “act-ex” member. Or just an active ex member.
I cant hear any of this
Such a conflicted space to be active in Church but not believe & contribute to the calling out of the Church’s BS. I still love the people of my home ward & we still do things for each other, but I don’t feel obligated to go to church at all, maybe for a special thing where there’s food, that’s it. I prefer to be clear: cut BS out of my life as much as possible & gravitate to good people & principles.
Belief in a god, any god is absolute willful ignorance.
Nemo the No Mo Mormon.
@@LdsTiktokPreservation I chuckled
They leave but cannot leave it alone!
@@dougmills6830
And BRAVO for that.
It must NEVER BE LEFT ALONE.
Its poisonous effects and expansive damage are LIFE-LONG for its victims.
The "church" is due NO QUARTER. Ever. At all.
The system is GANGSTER-LEVEL CRIMINAL.
I give up. Goodbye. I’m gonna go find a more succinct podcast, one that actually discusses the topic listed in the title.
dispensation end of time matthew chap 24 noah isaiah 4 zion québec
Part of repentance IS forgiveness, but the greater part is making RESTITUTION as far as you are able .
This means *perpetrators* must be brought to justice .
ALL ACCUSED _DESERVE_ the BEST DEFENSE *POSSIBLE* , and YOU will TOO when Government comes for YOU .
That said , I see no direct input here from anyone *_except_* anti and ex-mormons . Some lip-service is paid to "I'm a member" , but that is DISCARDED almost _immeduately_ , in favor of Non-mormon related cintrivances . "Such wonderful journalism" measured SOLELY on the ability to weave a "narrative" by someone OUTSIDE the culture who has pre-determined to DISLIKE that culture _really_ "studying it allot" . I'm Not seeing ANYTHING from _actual_ MORMON voices knowledgeable on the subject.
There ARE *PLENTY* , just none referenced _here_ .
We have extensive safeguards in place , none of which are examined for how such safeguards can still fail . Were _ANY_ of these "Safeguards" _examined_ in detail , we'd see no result worse than a reflection of society as a whole , and actually , a far better environment than can be found in both society as a whole AND as compared to other "World - _WIDE_ "
"Religions" .
No one is going to claim it's non-existent , but I see no attention to _either_ context OR the nature of the problem _itself_ , only that NOT ALL of the members "love the church" and "all is well" .
This woman is filled with anger and poison of her own . NOT a reliably honest source of insight .
Gotta FIND someone UNHAPPY about the Church in general , and maybe IN SPECIFIC to help build "The Narrative" .
PURPOSE of "The NARRATIVE " ? Harm the public perception of the Church, hating that were dressed well , and attacking things without offering any _genuine_ insight .
There is ALWAYS a "forum" for ANYONE to speak out over GENUINE problems as they occur - Go to THE POLICE and to THE PRESS !
We are NEVER "told" to maintain "Secrecy" , or that we are "SINNING" if we call out the problems . Thos is PATENTLY *FALSE* .
To claim such is an OUTRIGHT _INTENTIONAL DECEPTION_ .
It's not retribution - it's telling that you chose that word - it's restitution. You're utterly inaccurate in your claims.
The church hierarchy has changed its criteria on what it will excommunicated a member on. I was married to a church member now divorced (he divorced me). He left me had an affair and despite the Branch President and the District. President knowing, nothing was done.He moved to another country lived with her then married her. I was told" unless you were in the bedroom and witnessed it he will lie". He has not had his name removed from church records and has not requested a temple divorce. He stated to me "if we can't be together on earth I will have you in eternity 😮 I have been a member for more than fifty years i am disappointed that the ex has had no consequences and might return to church and be given callings and not admit to what he did. He can be charming and believable but lies to get what he wants.
@@fionasheepwash2718I’m so sorry that that happened. He may have gotten away with it here but trust me, God saw EVERYTHING and will not let it pass. You will have restitution at some point.
@@fionasheepwash2718Wow. I can't believe how extraordinarily our stories match. Mind blown.
@chuckintexas.
Can y'all NEVER find, steal, invent, or by some means hatch any logical, appropriate response other than trying to justify your rotgut doings like little boys dragging in the actions of OTHER, completely IRRELEVANT, persons or events as some sort comparison-driven basis of justifying YOUR. OWN. WRONG?
For every word from Nemo’s mouth, recognize that his objective is to sow doubt for money. The AP reporter who has chased this story makes deceptive claims and conclusions chasing another Pulitzer. Clergy penitent privilege protects far more than it harms, in contrast to the prevailing view of all involved in the witch hunt. And the evil acts of some person who is a member of the church does not give the victim right to compensation by the church - the victim should pursue the perpetrator - and the church has little to do with the actions of the perpetrator. The excessive litigiousness of society has forced the church to legally protect itself, which is appropriate and they have to provide legal advice to bishops who are volunteers. All of this is as it should be. We all mourn for victims, but the fundamental premise that this is somehow a church problem or indicates something wrong w the church is fundamentally flawed. But Nemo is there to make mountains of molehills and to make as much as possible of it.
Clergy penitent privilege harms victims. Full stop.
@@Chelsea12073 that’s false. There’s a reason why this provision has been enshrined in law in most of the world with properly functioning legal systems for centuries - there is societal benefit. Criticism of clergy privilege entirely focuses on the instances where it shielded a perpetrator for some time and never focus on the many many more instances where worsening problems were averted,lives and families saved by the unique access clergy earlier than would ever have been possible w/o clergy privilege.
@@travisjones3794 these legal systems are perpetuated by patriarchy and patriarchy protects perpetrators. I’m not sure where you get your data from but I strongly suspect that many many victims are harmed as a result of this law where as many perpetrators are protected and are not brought to justice. Just because it’s in enshrined in law doesn’t mean it’s a law worth supporting.
Nemo isn’t insisting on ten percent of your income for life…
Nemo isn’t hiding ca and csa, the church in the other hand…
If you support the church’s hotline, you support ca and csa
@@Chelsea12073 If your foundational argument is that the purpose of laws of established legal systems around the world is to perpetuate patriarchy and protect predators rather than for societal benefit, you’ve definitely moved into the lane of extremist ideology.
That would be Nemo the EX MORMON. Traded his Church membership for “likes” on the internet. Really, really pathetic. Poor guy couldn’t live his religion.
Poor Mikey can’t handle the truth.
@@mommyofkittens4809
Poor Mikey RESENTS the truth.
And the fact that anyone dares to speak it.
@mikeboyd3225
Yes, poor guy.
Almost as pitiable as you.
Address the points being made in the conversation. Can you do that honestly? Blathering on about his excommunication is useless, and how would you even know that if you weren't following his personal story? Seems like your a little too interested in his content.
@ what content? A bunch of anti-LDS garbage. Accusation after accusation with no proof. Same crap that’s been going on for 200 years. Just running off at the mouth. Joseph was a Prophet, the Book of Mormon is sacred scripture and NO ONE can disprove it.
Thanks!
No problem!
You’re doing great work. Important work. Please keep it up. However… I wish you’d cut back on the gladhanding at the beginning of the podcast, the introductions, the welcomes, all the happy worm small talk. A lot of us don’t have time for that we’re working jobs, raising families. Can you just get to the meet sooner. Thank you.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Thanks!