Oh yeah, I totally forgot about that. I tried my best not to show up to YW, but people knew where I lived and wouldn’t take no for an answer. Typical behavior in the church 🤷🏻♀️
Lots of chanting for missionaries too. In fact even after over 30 years and over 8 years since leaving, I can still pretty much recite D&C 4 and The Standard of Truth for starters. Not sure it if was the experience of other RMs but BIG, BIG, BIG in my mission. In fact when I happen to be around family during GC I nearly always blows them away when an evil POS like me can chime in and quote those texts for verbatim as it's read on TV...😅
I guess the Boy Scouts are a cult too! And the United States of America!!!! OH and when I was in Tae Kwon Do we always recited the ten rules! CULTS EVERYWHERE!!!!!
the whole 'avoid situations where people dress immodestly', which was like, just a bit mentioned at the end, was something that ended up traumatizing me just a bit because pushing that so heavily on a child who had no exposure to the outside world until first grade did lead to me getting in trouble for my own parents teachings when a teacher's aid came in wearing a tank top and little me covered my eyes with my hands. like thanks guys i didnt know any better and i still think about that sometimes
You nailed the prayer! 2 more months of hearing that EVERY morning and dinner. I've been allowed to not go to church since I was 15, and only at late 17 after I had a huge argument with them about it, was I allowed to not say nightly prayers. All thanks to my mom. My dad would never have let me if she wasn't there. And now, I will finally move out in 2 months and never have to experience mormonism daily ever again!
I was thinking about this JUST the other day! I was totaling up all the daily prayers we had everyday in my orthodox Mormon family growing up. It took so much time just to pray. It seemed all encompassing when I was a kid and just wanted ONE day off!!! Thank you for all your videos, you are doing good works!
It's crazy right? Right when I realized that the church wasn't true to me, I realized the asinine amount of praying a Mormon does I thought it was exhausting. No no wonder why some people wanted out after so much of repeating the same prayers every day up to 10 times a day even.
@@ncastroclan And I never got the point of it. I'm sure a God over 8 billion people has much-more important things to worry about than what one measly person is begging for... "Uh-oh, stop everything. Melinda is praying again. Let's see what she wants this time!"
This just reminds me -- agaaaain -- how high the requirements were to do alllll of the thiiiiings and how there's literally almost no time left to just . . . be. To just go enjoy SOMETHING that isn't a church required activity. So glad I'm out.
I just realized that calling everyone brother/sister is incredibly strange... Sounds like sweet home alabama but instead of marrrying your own blood it's just a cult
I never was able to block thoughts using LDS techniques. Even my fellow ward members would mess up my thought control. I remember trying to keep my mind on the Sacrament meeting talks , when a six year old kid polked me and asked, " Don't you think Bro Dave that two lightsabers on the bottom of a lawn mower could cut slot of grass? " That question stayed with me through Sacra😮ment meeting and Sunday school till bedtime.
I love this series you are doing! I look forward to each new addition. I also was raised that any negative thought should be met with a hymn. The YW theme was probably one of my first shelf items, it made me so uncomfortable!
I had the exact same revelation about concerts!! I'd never gone to a secular concert until i was nearly out of christianity, and I'd always thought of the times at church camps when we sang together as the most telling spiritual experiences - the only times i'd really felt like I could feel god's presence. realizing the feeling was universal was definitely another nail in the coffin of my faith
That was fascinating. There is a strong element of extreme control involved. Being a totally devoted Mormon must be hard work. It certainly doesn't leave much room for thought. I love the Hymns I learned growing up in Catholicism. Some are musical masterpieces. Even though I don't actively participate in Church much, I attend musical presentations every year. They are usually held in large theatres and always involve orchestras. People of every belief system, or none, go to experience the magic of singing all the well known songs/hymns. I've even heard the Mormon Tabernacle Choir singing them. I'm always uplifted when I leave. Church should be there to be enjoyed. There should not be constant fear involved. I would never have subjected my daughter to such trauma.
Being a Mormon is literally a second full time job. They want you to recruit more. Then you get a Bishop's interview which is basically an interrogation which can leave you feeling like you are going to lose your family forever. The solution is more Mormonism, more recruitment, and give the 100 billion dollar giga-cult more money.
Talking about Hymns, The church always claims that they don't worship. Joseph Smith but they sing a hymn praising him " praise to the man" and they require people to stand while they're singing it. This is absolutely a form of worship and psychological manipulation
They talk 10 times more about Jo Smith than they ever did Jesus. I would ask if we were a Christian church during Joseph worship lessons just to make the teacher angry. I was kicked out of class a lot haha I was even removed from seminary permanently in high school for “disrespectful arguments”.
The "oh god" chant with the we're not worthy gesture is definitely freaky, but you should have been there back in the day when it was chanted in a quasi-Hebrew language. Now that was weird.
🎉🎉 great video Lex ❤ I was super orthodox and so "In" the cult that I spent sooo much time wasted in prayers and songs because my mind would not stop thinking about other things without it. It helped me thought stop alright. It also (1)stunted my critical thinking skills development, (2)stopped me from learning how to communicate effectively, (3) stunted conflict resolution skills because all negative emotions and feelings are of the devil,(4) stopped me from learning and being able to practice healthy boundaries, (5) stunted me from learning and understanding social cues.... It's a b*tch to be learning all of these at 39yrs old... 😢 Now I know it's just because I have ADHD and also it's a major core trait to my personality type. I still am in Therapy deconstructing everything. Thanks Mormonism for ruining my ability to develop like a normal human being.
I really wonder how much orthodox Mormonism influenced my brain...my doctor thinks I might have ADHD. I can't listen to others talk without losing focus and thinking of something else...much like trying to sing a hymn to stop thinking "sinful thoughts"....seems like that was programmed into my subconscious.
Imagine my distress when obsessively singing hymns in my head and out loud didn't stop intrusive thoughts from entering my mind. What was I doing wrong? I just gotta try harder. It perpetuated my (diagnosed) OCD, and I'm sure religious scrupulosity in thousands of people. When the tools offered to you don't work, whose fault is it? Mine obviously. There's the occasional nuanced bishop or stake president who would encourage finding balance or additional ways to cope with unwanted or intrusive thoughts, but those suggestions can be unknowingly harmful, unfortunately. It friggin like, GIVES people religious OCD. It's crazy. I'm almost glad I didn't even know masturbating existed. I think the shame around that and those thoughts would have fucked up my sexual repression and shame and stuff even more than it already had been. It's also sad, because I like what you said about blocking out thoughts that are helpful (thought stopping). Thoughts or emotions that feel negative are often labeled as thoughts from Satan (by their fruits ye shall know them), and while there are unhelpful negative thoughts, like you said about depression rumination, there are also helpful thoughts that are uncomfortable. Like cognitive dissonance. Or a warning feeling in your gut, that something is off. This is the insidious thing about teaching thought stopping: it becomes automatic. When the members know how to do it to themselves, they're automatically shutting down thoughts that would actually be helpful to them, and distancing themselves from a relationship with themselves and their bodies. This is HUGE in keeping people in. In protecting abusers. In keeping quiet to "keep the peace", as artificial as that peace may be. To teach that thoughts are crimes is to teach someone to be afraid of their own mind. And when you're afraid of your own mind, it makes it that much more appealing to shove and repress anything that might be "contrary" to what is prescribed as the way you "should" be thinking down far, far away, deep inside of you. Even if it makes you sick: it's still a worthy sacrifice if it means you're not sinning with your thoughts anymore. To question the group, the prophets and apostles, to question GOD - how dare you have the audacity? You think you know better?? Better than GOD? (And this is based on the assumption that the lds church leaders and scripture speak for god in the first place, and the assumption that god exists at all, let alone in the form/personality that we think they do.) It feels safer (and sometimes literally IS, depending on the individual's circumstances) to stop thoughts that threaten the structure of your whole life than to let them come in and take a wrecking ball to your tower of faith.
⬆️You just described me...except I learned about that certain subject too late and wanted to unsubsidized from life because of the way I was taught to get rid of those thoughts and actions. I spent most of my teenage years severely depressed, wishing for sleep and waking up wishing I hadn't.
Speaking of chanting & repeating phrases... In my family, we would take turns blessing the food, but we'd repeat the EXACT SAME prayer every time: "Dear Heavenly Father, we're thankful for this food, we ask thee to bless it so it'll nourish & strengthen our bodies, and we say these things in the name of JC, amen." 😂
Yup. Exactly that prayer. Exactly those things. Another thoughtbstopping technique not mentioned (or maybe I missed it) is to memorize scriptures and recite them. Also the Articles of Faith.
You have mentioned this before, and I have experienced the same phenomen of being at a metal concert and being overcome with "the spirit" / emotion while taking in a profuound song and moment. The church doesn't have a monopoly on spiritual experiences based around music.
I walked away from TSCC last year at the age of 66. I had spent some 50 years of monitoring every thought using the Packer method and trying to constantly maintain a prayer in my heart. Frankly it was exhausting and constantly thought stopping. Great job on this topic !
You wanna know something funny? My mom has the shortest attention span so if she’s asking me a question about something I don’t want to talk about, I just sing a hymn to her. It’ll distract her and she’ll be singing for hours. Talk about thought stopping 😂
as a nevermo I have to say hearing "we thank thee for the moisture we have received" made me freeze and stare at you like you grew another head. usually mormonese doesn't sound THAT different from my evangelical upbringing but that is just. the strangest phrasing for that sentiment i have ever heard
I can imagine!! “I wonder how my sister’s doing…” “what songs are out on the radio now?” “Did I miss any movies I’d like?” “I wonder what’s for lunch…”
Mormons don't pray nearly as much as Orthodox Jewish males do. At minimum, they pray 1.5 hours on regular weekdays, and 4-5 hours every Shabat and Yom Tov. They spend about 8 hours praying on each day of Rosh HaShanah, and at least 12 hours praying on Yom Kipur. Plus, some of them only listen to music whose lyrics are taken from Jewish texts and scriptures. Mormons have it easy! 😉
9:52 not to mention that if you sing a hymn to rid yourself of “bad thoughts” when you sing the same song in church you’ve conditioned your mind to bring those “bad thoughts” right back to your memory. So it creates its own problem. Lol
Not doing all the prayers and scripture study that the Church wanted was a great way of making a person feel inadequate, and like they were not keeping up with everyting all the shiny happy Mormons at Church were doing. So the BITE model worked as a double edged sword in that it was both direct control and indeirect control over members, from the way I experienced it, anyway.
I SQUIRMED during that prayer example lol I hated being forced to bless the food. My brothers would always try to make each other laugh during any of the prayers to get the old people mad at us
When I was on my way out of the church, I read on some forum that praying can be a compulsion. I have OCD and... it definitely was. Now, a few years later, the only time I think of prayers are when others mention them.
The "sing to keep from sinning" you see a lot in Orthodox Jewish circles also. The website that's literally called "guard your eyes" has a bunch of tunes on it meant to keep you from sinning.
My boyfriends moms trying to convert me to Mormonism an it’s getting really damn annoying. Especially when she told the missionaries were me an my boyfriend live now.
I am so sorry you are going through this 😢 When I was in New Mexico my gf (later wife now ex-wife) and I moved in together because her parents went Kujo on the rules when she turned 18. The local bishop said we either needed to get married right now, immediately, or face damnation. We waited a year, but we shouldn't have married, we weren't compatible. She cheated 5 years later and we divorced.
Ooof the praying part...For me it became to a point that felt if I missed a prayed something terrible was gonna happen to my family and I, it became obssesive and anxiety inducing for me. It was the second thing i stopped doing after leaving the church and felt the actual peace I forgot i had so many years ago ( im a convert). edit*** I got a memory unlocked: I once read the miracle of forgiveness and the part that talks about the correct prayer and if you dont do it like that it meant you're not a true believer of christ (or something like that) made me so much worse emotionally, spiritually and even mentally.
When I was a kid, I heard the very catchy song Hey Mickey by Toni Basil and it stuck with me. I've always dealt with insomnia, and back then to try and sing myself to sleep in a way I would sing the parts of the song I knew in my head to fall asleep. One day I got a "prompting from the spirit" to stop singing that song in my head and to instead sing I am a child of god. I switched songs, and it made no difference in how I felt or how quickly I fell asleep.
Your prayer is so spot on to my childhood 🤣 omg 7:33 WOW i recall truly feeling a sense of safety when I’d take my mothers advice and sing a hymn to sleep when scared as a child. Glad I am not the only one whose haunted by these childhood tunes and continually trying to replace them with other sounds that bring my spirit a sense of safety and peace. Thank you for what your doing ❤
Right??!! No one will dare say its a cult! I was manipulated in to this for 40 yrs before I had my mormonName and Number removed from their lists! Brainwashing LD$> FLD$> RLD$> CLD$
2:28 - Its description is backward. Prayer is a form of subject-specific meditation, in which one intentionally focuses on some aspect of one's faith. Interestingly, in study after study, the #1 result of prayer is an intensification (or even confirmation) _of_ one's beliefs...regardless of what religion the one practices. With this in mind, it's no surprise that the LDS Church (among others) "strongly suggests" such frequent prayer...both individually and in groups. It's really insidious when you study the nature of synaptic shortcuts and the habituation of addictive behavior. Once it becomes a habit...complete with dopamine/serotonin response...it can become uncomfortable _not_ to do it, so eventually people _faithfully_ self-indoctrinate. P.S. Regarding the prayer you recited, you said that last part way too slow. In my experience, growing up in Utah, it usually sounds more like, "Weesayeesingsinnaymuhjeezcriesaymen."
Funny, I grew up in Alabama and we got tons of rain throughout the year. So, this is the first time I've heard about being thankful for the moisture! But I can totally imagine that being repeated constantly out west.
I am from brazil and i was mormon for about 4 years BY CHOICE (this still drives me crazy but now i know how extremely good they are at manipulating people) i was very confused and sad about wearing modesty, sometimes it was IMPOSSIBLE because brazil is a very hot country! and wear clothes that cover your whole body is painful and UGLY (for me) i left mormonism in 2022 and only this year i buy new and beautiful clothes i am so happy with it and i think how i used to dress still makes me uncomfortable , but I'm getting better at it
So... you became a mormon BY CHOICE. Why you had to say BY CHOICE. In Brazil people become mormon by force? In Brazil people are not free to chose their religion? You gave up the Mormonism because of clothes. Is it a good reason to give up something? I understand Brazil is a tropical country but tropical weather is way nicer than desert dry weather. What is happening with Brazilian people, the reason you became mormon was ridiculous and the reason you gave up mormonism is even more ridiculous. Before you make a decision, do you go by your most ridiculous option? It must be difficult being born with a Brazilian brain.
I wish I had a teacher like you 50 years ago. When we went to the temple , all I felt was a sense that something was very very bad and completely wrong or even evil. 50 more years later, you have put all my thoughts into words. I honestly don’t believe that I had even one day in church that didn’t haunt me with thoughts of this organization being just. WRONG. The guilt and fear kept me giving this cult respectable attention. Now I have poorly suppressed anger issues. Although well controlled
It's so funny how "singsong" all Mormons say their prayers. In all parts of the US I lived in as a Mormon, they all pray the same way... except at a podium where they are trying to sound super deep, righteous, and important.
That prayer gave me chills. Thanks for the trigger warning, so I had a chance to prepare myself for it. The moisture line wasn't one my family used, thankfully. I don't know if I would have been able to keep a straight face if they did. Just say rain!
I don't remember who said it or what year, but I remember a general conference talk where it was mentioned that humming hymns to himself helped him combat evil thoughts.
The example of a family dinner prayer SENT ME 😂😅Also, when you talked about singing their songs will protect you from evil, that opened up a core memory that I didn’t know I had. When I was little I was so scare of ghosts and truly beleived my childhood house was haunted and they wanted to hurt me. I heard of this beleif and immediately started implimenting it. I just remember singing I am a child of god walking out of the bathroom to my bedroom in the middle of the night because that would “protect” me. This probably has no impact to anyone else but I felt I needed to wright it out to get it out of me in a weird way.
I think for most cults like nxivm cult for example; the "organization" or the model of it, is to exhaust every member to the point they do not question whatever they're being told. It is so manipulative and repulsing.
At every mormon meal prayer I heard growing up included the phrase "Bless it to our use". They were just as rote as the "meaningless memorized" prayers of inferior religions, but oh so freaking smug about it.
Usually calls either operate based on meditation or prayer. Generally, churches in the Western tradition use music and prayerb whereas churches and the Eastern tradition use meditation instead.
Sometimes it feels like church almost stole my love of listening to music in a group. About 2 years I left religion I went to a comedy show where they ended the night by everyone singing Africa by Toto and I had a moment of feeling like I was in a congregation. It felt almost scary how connected I felt to everyone in that room. I was only brought out of it when a woman I was near grabbed my hand and spun me into a dance. Music and a common interest can make one hellova atmosphere and I was so caught off guard by how church like it felt.
I have that problem and I got really self-conscious about my voice when I recorded it to the point where I thought I was hopeless because I got this illusion that I was somehow contributing to the melody in sacrament meeting. I doubled down thinking I had to sound like multi-track vocals on albums. My voice is pretty powerful now but I was pretty dumb about it
I absolutely love music and still exercise thinking of or listening to uplifting and calming music to ease my anxious/OCD thoughts. It comes in handy even after being an ex-Mormon for 8 years. I still find the old EFY or Woman At The Well albums to be some of my favorites, they’re just so beautifully written and performed. But yes I agree the church pushers prayer a bit too much, especially when all you wanna do is close your eyes and go to sleep at night. I remember falling asleep during prayers a lot 😅
I'm a true outsider who has been meeting with the missionaries regularly to understand the Mormon church. A lot mentioned doesn't bother me too much. But the "chanting" definitely bugs me. But I'm totally baffled why all the prayers use "thee" and "thou" all the time. Why not use simple, ordinary language? I'd really like to know.
I was taught that it’s more respectful to God to use language like that. I agree though, even when I was Mormon I always thought I’d rather use regular language.
The missionaries that come to my house get very upset that I don’t pray out loud and tell me that’s stopping me from feeling the love of god. I pray silently as a Christian because when I would pray out loud it felt forced, fake, and about me instead of god… they did not agree that it made me feel that way.
One of my sources of guilt and anxiety was never praying "enough". If I was having a bad day, I would be worried that I had forgotten to pray that day or that I didn't pray "correctly".
Lordy, by the time you get done with the meal prayer, the food is cold! Singing at all, releases 'feel good' endorphins! It is literally impossible to be sad while singing. You can be sad hearing a sad song, but the act of singing makes one happy. Unfortunately, if you suffer from depression, that good feeling doesn't last much past the end of the song.
Hi, Lex. I have some questions about a discussion with some LDS missionaries. Are you open to helping me give some good answers to them? Or referring me to someone who can help?
Thoughts happen to us the only way to stop them is to accept that they are happening and that you are not the thoughts then work on self awareness through being in your body
If someone wants to be exploited and controlled, maybe you should let them. Most of the time, you can't wake someone like that up anyway. you could spend hours reasoning with them, citing your sources and all that. it's not gonna matter.
But then they pay an organization so much that they make 100 billion or more and they bribe lawmakers to do what the cult wants and that will in turn harm non mormons… so it does matter.
It's not a cult in the sense of some other seriously destructive small religions, it's more of a cult lite™. When a religion graduates to status as the sort of main vehicle of culture that you see it doing in Utah, it tends to loosen up and become much more of simply a social tool. It's not much different than the way that early Christianity was certainly a cult, but it gradually became part of the culture of the late Roman Empire and early medieval period through the Catholic/Orthodox church. When it becomes part of daily life and is no longer an isolated bubble of fanaticism, then that's when it stops really being a cult.
Love your videos ❤️Thanx for the info on moron cult👀I personally got into Eastern Spiritual teachings many years ago🙏highly recommend in your journey Much Love and Blessings !❤️🌞❤️
I really started getting into metal while I was still a believing member. Part of my deconstruction was that the music I liked gave me more positive feelings than being in the church. It didn't help that I was struggling with my sexuality and whenever the subject of adultery, families living forever, the law of chastity, or anything related came up, I would get an immense feeling of sadness and shame. Metal doesn't judge. Metal is malleable.
You forgot about the Young Women chanting the Values every Sunday! Super culty! 😬
Good call!
Yikes yeah! 🤦 25 years since I've been in a young women's meeting and I can still recite it word for word.
Oh yeah, I totally forgot about that. I tried my best not to show up to YW, but people knew where I lived and wouldn’t take no for an answer. Typical behavior in the church 🤷🏻♀️
Lots of chanting for missionaries too.
In fact even after over 30 years and over 8 years since leaving, I can still pretty much recite D&C 4 and The Standard of Truth for starters. Not sure it if was the experience of other RMs but BIG, BIG, BIG in my mission.
In fact when I happen to be around family during GC I nearly always blows them away when an evil POS like me can chime in and quote those texts for verbatim as it's read on TV...😅
I guess the Boy Scouts are a cult too! And the United States of America!!!! OH and when I was in Tae Kwon Do we always recited the ten rules! CULTS EVERYWHERE!!!!!
the whole 'avoid situations where people dress immodestly', which was like, just a bit mentioned at the end, was something that ended up traumatizing me just a bit because pushing that so heavily on a child who had no exposure to the outside world until first grade did lead to me getting in trouble for my own parents teachings when a teacher's aid came in wearing a tank top and little me covered my eyes with my hands. like thanks guys i didnt know any better and i still think about that sometimes
You nailed the prayer! 2 more months of hearing that EVERY morning and dinner. I've been allowed to not go to church since I was 15, and only at late 17 after I had a huge argument with them about it, was I allowed to not say nightly prayers. All thanks to my mom. My dad would never have let me if she wasn't there. And now, I will finally move out in 2 months and never have to experience mormonism daily ever again!
I was thinking about this JUST the other day! I was totaling up all the daily prayers we had everyday in my orthodox Mormon family growing up. It took so much time just to pray. It seemed all encompassing when I was a kid and just wanted ONE day off!!! Thank you for all your videos, you are doing good works!
It's crazy right? Right when I realized that the church wasn't true to me, I realized the asinine amount of praying a Mormon does I thought it was exhausting. No no wonder why some people wanted out after so much of repeating the same prayers every day up to 10 times a day even.
@@ncastroclan And I never got the point of it. I'm sure a God over 8 billion people has much-more important things to worry about than what one measly person is begging for... "Uh-oh, stop everything. Melinda is praying again. Let's see what she wants this time!"
This just reminds me -- agaaaain -- how high the requirements were to do alllll of the thiiiiings and how there's literally almost no time left to just . . . be. To just go enjoy SOMETHING that isn't a church required activity. So glad I'm out.
I just realized that calling everyone brother/sister is incredibly strange...
Sounds like sweet home alabama but instead of marrrying your own blood it's just a cult
I never was able to block thoughts using LDS techniques. Even my fellow ward members would mess up my thought control. I remember trying to keep my mind on the Sacrament meeting talks , when a six year old kid polked me and asked, " Don't you think Bro Dave that two lightsabers on the bottom of a lawn mower could cut slot of grass? " That question stayed with me through Sacra😮ment meeting and Sunday school till bedtime.
I love this series you are doing! I look forward to each new addition. I also was raised that any negative thought should be met with a hymn. The YW theme was probably one of my first shelf items, it made me so uncomfortable!
I’ve probably heard that exact prayer verbatim. A million times. 😂😂😂
I had the exact same revelation about concerts!! I'd never gone to a secular concert until i was nearly out of christianity, and I'd always thought of the times at church camps when we sang together as the most telling spiritual experiences - the only times i'd really felt like I could feel god's presence. realizing the feeling was universal was definitely another nail in the coffin of my faith
The chanting in the temple always freaked me out. I never understood why anyone enjoyed going to the temple.
My dad said the he wanted to name the car "Safety" because in church prayers - "please take us home in safety." Ha ha.
That was fascinating. There is a strong element of extreme control involved. Being a totally devoted Mormon must be hard work. It certainly doesn't leave much room for thought.
I love the Hymns I learned growing up in Catholicism. Some are musical masterpieces. Even though I don't actively participate in Church much, I attend musical presentations every year. They are usually held in large theatres and always involve orchestras. People of every belief system, or none, go to experience the magic of singing all the well known songs/hymns.
I've even heard the Mormon Tabernacle Choir singing them. I'm always uplifted when I leave.
Church should be there to be enjoyed. There should not be constant fear involved. I would never have subjected my daughter to such trauma.
Being a Mormon is literally a second full time job. They want you to recruit more. Then you get a Bishop's interview which is basically an interrogation which can leave you feeling like you are going to lose your family forever. The solution is more Mormonism, more recruitment, and give the 100 billion dollar giga-cult more money.
Praying for protection against enemies. Why do Mormons have so many enemies??
Am I the only one who instinctively said “amen” after Lexi did?
Me too, despite me being out of the church for almost two decades lol
Amen to that!
Talking about Hymns, The church always claims that they don't worship. Joseph Smith but they sing a hymn praising him " praise to the man" and they require people to stand while they're singing it. This is absolutely a form of worship and psychological manipulation
And it has a very catchy tune too
They talk 10 times more about Jo Smith than they ever did Jesus. I would ask if we were a Christian church during Joseph worship lessons just to make the teacher angry. I was kicked out of class a lot haha I was even removed from seminary permanently in high school for “disrespectful arguments”.
@@unluckyone1655which they stole from the Scottish anthem.
If you spent 15 minutes a day in prayer, you would have spent 15 days 5 hours, and 15 minutes a YEAR doing nothing but praying.
Ugh I spent so much wasted time just ignoring the prayer and daydreaming
The "oh god" chant with the we're not worthy gesture is definitely freaky, but you should have been there back in the day when it was chanted in a quasi-Hebrew language. Now that was weird.
🎉🎉 great video Lex ❤
I was super orthodox and so "In" the cult that I spent sooo much time wasted in prayers and songs because my mind would not stop thinking about other things without it. It helped me thought stop alright. It also (1)stunted my critical thinking skills development, (2)stopped me from learning how to communicate effectively, (3) stunted conflict resolution skills because all negative emotions and feelings are of the devil,(4) stopped me from learning and being able to practice healthy boundaries, (5) stunted me from learning and understanding social cues.... It's a b*tch to be learning all of these at 39yrs old... 😢
Now I know it's just because I have ADHD and also it's a major core trait to my personality type.
I still am in Therapy deconstructing everything.
Thanks Mormonism for ruining my ability to develop like a normal human being.
I really wonder how much orthodox Mormonism influenced my brain...my doctor thinks I might have ADHD. I can't listen to others talk without losing focus and thinking of something else...much like trying to sing a hymn to stop thinking "sinful thoughts"....seems like that was programmed into my subconscious.
Imagine my distress when obsessively singing hymns in my head and out loud didn't stop intrusive thoughts from entering my mind. What was I doing wrong? I just gotta try harder. It perpetuated my (diagnosed) OCD, and I'm sure religious scrupulosity in thousands of people. When the tools offered to you don't work, whose fault is it? Mine obviously. There's the occasional nuanced bishop or stake president who would encourage finding balance or additional ways to cope with unwanted or intrusive thoughts, but those suggestions can be unknowingly harmful, unfortunately. It friggin like, GIVES people religious OCD. It's crazy. I'm almost glad I didn't even know masturbating existed. I think the shame around that and those thoughts would have fucked up my sexual repression and shame and stuff even more than it already had been.
It's also sad, because I like what you said about blocking out thoughts that are helpful (thought stopping). Thoughts or emotions that feel negative are often labeled as thoughts from Satan (by their fruits ye shall know them), and while there are unhelpful negative thoughts, like you said about depression rumination, there are also helpful thoughts that are uncomfortable. Like cognitive dissonance. Or a warning feeling in your gut, that something is off. This is the insidious thing about teaching thought stopping: it becomes automatic. When the members know how to do it to themselves, they're automatically shutting down thoughts that would actually be helpful to them, and distancing themselves from a relationship with themselves and their bodies. This is HUGE in keeping people in. In protecting abusers. In keeping quiet to "keep the peace", as artificial as that peace may be.
To teach that thoughts are crimes is to teach someone to be afraid of their own mind.
And when you're afraid of your own mind, it makes it that much more appealing to shove and repress anything that might be "contrary" to what is prescribed as the way you "should" be thinking down far, far away, deep inside of you. Even if it makes you sick: it's still a worthy sacrifice if it means you're not sinning with your thoughts anymore. To question the group, the prophets and apostles, to question GOD - how dare you have the audacity? You think you know better?? Better than GOD? (And this is based on the assumption that the lds church leaders and scripture speak for god in the first place, and the assumption that god exists at all, let alone in the form/personality that we think they do.)
It feels safer (and sometimes literally IS, depending on the individual's circumstances) to stop thoughts that threaten the structure of your whole life than to let them come in and take a wrecking ball to your tower of faith.
⬆️You just described me...except I learned about that certain subject too late and wanted to unsubsidized from life because of the way I was taught to get rid of those thoughts and actions. I spent most of my teenage years severely depressed, wishing for sleep and waking up wishing I hadn't.
*unsubscribe, not unsubsidized.
Speaking of chanting & repeating phrases... In my family, we would take turns blessing the food, but we'd repeat the EXACT SAME prayer every time: "Dear Heavenly Father, we're thankful for this food, we ask thee to bless it so it'll nourish & strengthen our bodies, and we say these things in the name of JC, amen." 😂
Oof, I hear you on the hymn memorization! Got me used to avoiding any gay daydreams through thought-stopping with “Master, The Tempest is Raging”
Now when you gay dream do you have a haunting memory of the hymn?
Yup. Exactly that prayer. Exactly those things.
Another thoughtbstopping technique not mentioned (or maybe I missed it) is to memorize scriptures and recite them. Also the Articles of Faith.
You have mentioned this before, and I have experienced the same phenomen of being at a metal concert and being overcome with "the spirit" / emotion while taking in a profuound song and moment. The church doesn't have a monopoly on spiritual experiences based around music.
I walked away from TSCC last year at the age of 66. I had spent some 50 years of monitoring every thought using the Packer method and trying to constantly maintain a prayer in my heart. Frankly it was exhausting and constantly thought stopping. Great job on this topic !
Don't you find that a little hypocritical considering they make you say the sacrament word by word if you make a mistake they make you do it over.
I always asked this and received the typical, “it’s different, shut up” generic answer.
You wanna know something funny? My mom has the shortest attention span so if she’s asking me a question about something I don’t want to talk about, I just sing a hymn to her. It’ll distract her and she’ll be singing for hours. Talk about thought stopping 😂
Okay this right here is epic! GREAT JOB 😂😂😂
@@SeaSkorpion thank you!! It works like a charm every time!
as a nevermo I have to say hearing "we thank thee for the moisture we have received" made me freeze and stare at you like you grew another head. usually mormonese doesn't sound THAT different from my evangelical upbringing but that is just. the strangest phrasing for that sentiment i have ever heard
Utah gets awful dry in the summer.
I always sang "High on the Mountaintop..." on my mission whenever I started thinking about non-mission things... which was like all the time
I can imagine!! “I wonder how my sister’s doing…” “what songs are out on the radio now?” “Did I miss any movies I’d like?” “I wonder what’s for lunch…”
Mormons don't pray nearly as much as Orthodox Jewish males do.
At minimum, they pray 1.5 hours on regular weekdays, and 4-5 hours every Shabat and Yom Tov. They spend about 8 hours praying on each day of Rosh HaShanah, and at least 12 hours praying on Yom Kipur. Plus, some of them only listen to music whose lyrics are taken from Jewish texts and scriptures.
Mormons have it easy! 😉
9:52 not to mention that if you sing a hymn to rid yourself of “bad thoughts” when you sing the same song in church you’ve conditioned your mind to bring those “bad thoughts” right back to your memory. So it creates its own problem. Lol
THIS EXACTLY!!!⬆️ I can't stand certain hymns because of this.
Not doing all the prayers and scripture study that the Church wanted was a great way of making a person feel inadequate, and like they were not keeping up with everyting all the shiny happy Mormons at Church were doing. So the BITE model worked as a double edged sword in that it was both direct control and indeirect control over members, from the way I experienced it, anyway.
I SQUIRMED during that prayer example lol I hated being forced to bless the food. My brothers would always try to make each other laugh during any of the prayers to get the old people mad at us
Not Mormonism but no true Christian Church ever tell you to chant or meditate ever just trying to help😊
So Sad for USA -King James won over King Edwars or Charles So the USA Bible men won.
Never heard the “moisture” line of prayer haha Might be a Utah thing? I was so confused until you explained it 😂
Maybe a Utah thing 😂
I never realized how much I disliked praying until I stopped. Such a waste of time talking to the wall 😅
Yes it's ingrained in me with king James brogue when I pray. Can Jesus interpret the queens English in prayer? He was jewish?
When I was on my way out of the church, I read on some forum that praying can be a compulsion. I have OCD and... it definitely was. Now, a few years later, the only time I think of prayers are when others mention them.
The "sing to keep from sinning" you see a lot in Orthodox Jewish circles also. The website that's literally called "guard your eyes" has a bunch of tunes on it meant to keep you from sinning.
That's 9 prayers on Sunday. It changed you used to pray more in church. Our walls are thin and I heard my brother praying every night 😭
My boyfriends moms trying to convert me to Mormonism an it’s getting really damn annoying. Especially when she told the missionaries were me an my boyfriend live now.
I am so sorry you are going through this 😢 When I was in New Mexico my gf (later wife now ex-wife) and I moved in together because her parents went Kujo on the rules when she turned 18. The local bishop said we either needed to get married right now, immediately, or face damnation. We waited a year, but we shouldn't have married, we weren't compatible. She cheated 5 years later and we divorced.
Omg the moisture! Much needed moisture! Being from WA that was so weird!
“In the name of cheese and rice, amen!”
I get excited everytime I see you uploaded a new video! ❤️ ❤️ ❤️ So looking forward to this one
Yay! Thank you!
💝💝💝
Ooof the praying part...For me it became to a point that felt if I missed a prayed something terrible was gonna happen to my family and I, it became obssesive and anxiety inducing for me. It was the second thing i stopped doing after leaving the church and felt the actual peace I forgot i had so many years ago ( im a convert).
edit***
I got a memory unlocked: I once read the miracle of forgiveness and the part that talks about the correct prayer and if you dont do it like that it meant you're not a true believer of christ (or something like that) made me so much worse emotionally, spiritually and even mentally.
BITE model vs. Living Scriptures
When I was a kid, I heard the very catchy song Hey Mickey by Toni Basil and it stuck with me. I've always dealt with insomnia, and back then to try and sing myself to sleep in a way I would sing the parts of the song I knew in my head to fall asleep. One day I got a "prompting from the spirit" to stop singing that song in my head and to instead sing I am a child of god. I switched songs, and it made no difference in how I felt or how quickly I fell asleep.
Your prayer is so spot on to my childhood 🤣 omg 7:33 WOW i recall truly feeling a sense of safety when I’d take my mothers advice and sing a hymn to sleep when scared as a child. Glad I am not the only one whose haunted by these childhood tunes and continually trying to replace them with other sounds that bring my spirit a sense of safety and peace. Thank you for what your doing ❤
I literally cannot hear or say HF anymore. It is seriously triggering.
Right??!! No one will dare say its a cult! I was manipulated in to this for 40 yrs before I had my mormonName and Number removed from their lists! Brainwashing LD$> FLD$> RLD$> CLD$
2:28 - Its description is backward. Prayer is a form of subject-specific meditation, in which one intentionally focuses on some aspect of one's faith. Interestingly, in study after study, the #1 result of prayer is an intensification (or even confirmation) _of_ one's beliefs...regardless of what religion the one practices. With this in mind, it's no surprise that the LDS Church (among others) "strongly suggests" such frequent prayer...both individually and in groups. It's really insidious when you study the nature of synaptic shortcuts and the habituation of addictive behavior. Once it becomes a habit...complete with dopamine/serotonin response...it can become uncomfortable _not_ to do it, so eventually people _faithfully_ self-indoctrinate.
P.S. Regarding the prayer you recited, you said that last part way too slow. In my experience, growing up in Utah, it usually sounds more like, "Weesayeesingsinnaymuhjeezcriesaymen."
I've never been Mormon but I find the hymns really nice but still freak me out 😭🤣
Funny, I grew up in Alabama and we got tons of rain throughout the year. So, this is the first time I've heard about being thankful for the moisture! But I can totally imagine that being repeated constantly out west.
you should dig up the talk by ET Benson on the 14 fundementals of following a living prophet BITE MODEL FEAST !!
“ Just turn it off, like a light switch, just go click, it’s a nifty little Mormon trick……” soz, but I LOVE Book of Mormon, musical it’s so funny 🤣
I am from brazil and i was mormon for about 4 years BY CHOICE (this still drives me crazy but now i know how extremely good they are at manipulating people) i was very confused and sad about wearing modesty, sometimes it was IMPOSSIBLE because brazil is a very hot country! and wear clothes that cover your whole body is painful and UGLY (for me) i left mormonism in 2022 and only this year i buy new and beautiful clothes i am so happy with it and i think how i used to dress still makes me uncomfortable , but I'm getting better at it
So... you became a mormon BY CHOICE.
Why you had to say BY CHOICE.
In Brazil people become mormon by force? In Brazil people are not free to chose their religion?
You gave up the Mormonism because of clothes. Is it a good reason to give up something? I understand Brazil is a tropical country but tropical weather is way nicer than desert dry weather.
What is happening with Brazilian people, the reason you became mormon was ridiculous and the reason you gave up mormonism is even more ridiculous.
Before you make a decision, do you go by your most ridiculous option?
It must be difficult being born with a Brazilian brain.
WHY IS THE DINNER PRAYER ALMOST WORD FOR WORD WHAT MY FAMILY HAS SAID FOR Y E A R S THATS WILD
😂😂 I said the same thing when she was praying. It's 100% what my ex in-laws used to say!
I wish I had a teacher like you 50 years ago. When we went to the temple , all I felt was a sense that something was very very bad and completely wrong or even evil. 50 more years later, you have put all my thoughts into words. I honestly don’t believe that I had even one day in church that didn’t haunt me with thoughts of this organization being just. WRONG. The guilt and fear kept me giving this cult respectable attention. Now I have poorly suppressed anger issues. Although well controlled
When you start to think for yourself,,,
hum your favorite hymn.
Keep a prayer in your heart constantly. Constantly.
These are what I was taught.
The church hymnal is copied After the Reorgs hymnal, I was there !!! hahahaha!!!Revelation my ass
Just one comment : The garden of Eden and agency; the very basis of progress. Choices produce consequenses !
The MOISTURE? Hahahaha I think that's a western US thing. I never once heard that in our wards. XD
Also, you are supposed to pray when you wake, personal prayer, And family prayer. Family prayer at night and personal prayer at night.
It's so funny how "singsong" all Mormons say their prayers. In all parts of the US I lived in as a Mormon, they all pray the same way... except at a podium where they are trying to sound super deep, righteous, and important.
I was a "good girl". I used these often. Always feeling guilty and insignificant.
That prayer gave me chills. Thanks for the trigger warning, so I had a chance to prepare myself for it. The moisture line wasn't one my family used, thankfully. I don't know if I would have been able to keep a straight face if they did. Just say rain!
I don't remember who said it or what year, but I remember a general conference talk where it was mentioned that humming hymns to himself helped him combat evil thoughts.
My "Hymns" come from Mono-Inc. You should really give them a try !!
The example of a family dinner prayer SENT ME 😂😅Also, when you talked about singing their songs will protect you from evil, that opened up a core memory that I didn’t know I had. When I was little I was so scare of ghosts and truly beleived my childhood house was haunted and they wanted to hurt me. I heard of this beleif and immediately started implimenting it. I just remember singing I am a child of god walking out of the bathroom to my bedroom in the middle of the night because that would “protect” me. This probably has no impact to anyone else but I felt I needed to wright it out to get it out of me in a weird way.
I think for most cults like nxivm cult for example; the "organization" or the model of it, is to exhaust every member to the point they do not question whatever they're being told. It is so manipulative and repulsing.
At every mormon meal prayer I heard growing up included the phrase "Bless it to our use". They were just as rote as the
"meaningless memorized" prayers of inferior religions, but oh so freaking smug about it.
Usually calls either operate based on meditation or prayer. Generally, churches in the Western tradition use music and prayerb whereas churches and the Eastern tradition use meditation instead.
Thanks for the moisture?! 😂 Never heard that one when I was Momo...
I’m leaving LDS. I need help. Is there anyone I can talk to?
I couldn't help but chuckle when you started saying that prayer!
Could be worse, they could ask for an offering every prayer.
Sometimes it feels like church almost stole my love of listening to music in a group. About 2 years I left religion I went to a comedy show where they ended the night by everyone singing Africa by Toto and I had a moment of feeling like I was in a congregation. It felt almost scary how connected I felt to everyone in that room. I was only brought out of it when a woman I was near grabbed my hand and spun me into a dance. Music and a common interest can make one hellova atmosphere and I was so caught off guard by how church like it felt.
I have that problem and I got really self-conscious about my voice when I recorded it to the point where I thought I was hopeless because I got this illusion that I was somehow contributing to the melody in sacrament meeting. I doubled down thinking I had to sound like multi-track vocals on albums. My voice is pretty powerful now but I was pretty dumb about it
tell me that when they sings "we thank thee oh god of a Prophet ? is not a chant
The penticostals speak in tongues
From my experience, mind control is a whole lot easier with the use of the holy ghost.
lol The rest of the world does not call it the holy ghost LOL lol I learned the embarrassing way.
average Temple prayer circle prayers !
I absolutely love music and still exercise thinking of or listening to uplifting and calming music to ease my anxious/OCD thoughts. It comes in handy even after being an ex-Mormon for 8 years. I still find the old EFY or Woman At The Well albums to be some of my favorites, they’re just so beautifully written and performed. But yes I agree the church pushers prayer a bit too much, especially when all you wanna do is close your eyes and go to sleep at night. I remember falling asleep during prayers a lot 😅
Thanks for the moisture lol
I'm a true outsider who has been meeting with the missionaries regularly to understand the Mormon church. A lot mentioned doesn't bother me too much. But the "chanting" definitely bugs me. But I'm totally baffled why all the prayers use "thee" and "thou" all the time. Why not use simple, ordinary language? I'd really like to know.
I was taught that it’s more respectful to God to use language like that. I agree though, even when I was Mormon I always thought I’d rather use regular language.
@@ExmoLex Thanks for that. I've always been afraid to ask the missionaries.
The missionaries that come to my house get very upset that I don’t pray out loud and tell me that’s stopping me from feeling the love of god. I pray silently as a Christian because when I would pray out loud it felt forced, fake, and about me instead of god… they did not agree that it made me feel that way.
It's just a song not that deep
One of my sources of guilt and anxiety was never praying "enough". If I was having a bad day, I would be worried that I had forgotten to pray that day or that I didn't pray "correctly".
Lordy, by the time you get done with the meal prayer, the food is cold! Singing at all, releases 'feel good' endorphins! It is literally impossible to be sad while singing. You can be sad hearing a sad song, but the act of singing makes one happy. Unfortunately, if you suffer from depression, that good feeling doesn't last much past the end of the song.
Holy shit, my mind is blown about how many of these things I recognize. 🤮
Hosanna to the invisible friend.
Hi, Lex. I have some questions about a discussion with some LDS missionaries. Are you open to helping me give some good answers to them? Or referring me to someone who can help?
And yet it Moves
You lookin very different nowaday- “nothing is either good nor bad but thinking makes it so.”
The what tier
I also had a concert moment that was way more powerful than the church-music-moments. For me it was Blue October.
I am confused. I had seminary everyday of the week.
Some high schools do A and B days, so you have each of your subjects every other day. That’s how mine was.
@@ExmoLex got it. I can only assume it's the buildings with multiple wards. That wasn't an issue where I was.
“Please bless this meal and the hands that prepared it.”
I heard that same line repeated hundreds of times during my 20 years in the church.
Thoughts happen to us the only way to stop them is to accept that they are happening and that you are not the thoughts then work on self awareness through being in your body
If someone wants to be exploited and controlled, maybe you should let them. Most of the time, you can't wake someone like that up anyway. you could spend hours reasoning with them, citing your sources and all that. it's not gonna matter.
But then they pay an organization so much that they make 100 billion or more and they bribe lawmakers to do what the cult wants and that will in turn harm non mormons… so it does matter.
Beautiful piece of education. Yet again, you're the best, Lex! ❤ The bible even says to 'pray without ceasing'
It's not a cult in the sense of some other seriously destructive small religions, it's more of a cult lite™. When a religion graduates to status as the sort of main vehicle of culture that you see it doing in Utah, it tends to loosen up and become much more of simply a social tool. It's not much different than the way that early Christianity was certainly a cult, but it gradually became part of the culture of the late Roman Empire and early medieval period through the Catholic/Orthodox church. When it becomes part of daily life and is no longer an isolated bubble of fanaticism, then that's when it stops really being a cult.
Love your videos ❤️Thanx for the info on moron cult👀I personally got into Eastern Spiritual teachings many years ago🙏highly recommend in your journey Much Love and Blessings !❤️🌞❤️
I really started getting into metal while I was still a believing member. Part of my deconstruction was that the music I liked gave me more positive feelings than being in the church. It didn't help that I was struggling with my sexuality and whenever the subject of adultery, families living forever, the law of chastity, or anything related came up, I would get an immense feeling of sadness and shame. Metal doesn't judge. Metal is malleable.