This ENTIRE Quadcopter is 3D Printed (Even the Motors) Pt 1
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- Опубликовано: 23 дек 2024
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Thanks for watching! This project is going to be crazy and I am excited to finish it in future videos. Let me know if you have any suggestions on this project or future projects!
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Your shifts seem likely caused by your speed selection, bed slinger printer designs have to move that entire part which has a lot of inertia with a part that uses nearly 1kg of material.
Yeah, the combination of
“I printed this faster than normal”
And
“Oh this thing is heavy” really suggests that’s why. Plus the defects were at the top of the print, when most of the mass was deposited.
this is 1000% it. Let the bed slingers die, kill them, if you have to.
Couldnt it be fixed by tightening the belts and increasing the motor current?
@@conorstewart2214 sure, but that's just slapping a bandaid on the actual issue. Eventually you will hit a point where you can't do that and get better results without going slower
Yeah no one tunes their printer settings for weight of bed + 1kg of print.
3d-printed Screws, ballbearings, coils, wires and magnets is impressive!
😅
ikr
Yeah clickbait
@@thenamelessone123 Why, I'll bet he didn't even print the remote handset. Maybe we could all sue Google together!
@@davidbenston4259 interestingly enough, you can inkjet print Logic Circuits. There's academic articles that go back 5 years ago about inkjet printing SRAM Cells for FPGA on flexible substrate (plastic). I'm pretty sure those MSce students finished making a fully functional inkjet printed FPGA. Once you have an FPGA you can do something called Direct Digital Synthesis (DDS) to make a Software Defined Radio. Remaining Logic blocks in the FPGA can be used to Encode and Decode digital data on that radio. Going from a functional Digital Modem to adding on the logical blocks that can become the flight controller is not a large step. With enough time and effort (probably 6 months for someone with the Electrical Engineering skills), a transistor by transistor flight controller could be designed. Producing that flight controller and radio would take seconds to fabricate. My guess is that including DRAM, you're looking at around 10,000-20,000 transistors at best.
While i agree this video was a bit clickbaitish, it's mostly true :)
For the bearings, you want to add a shoulder that catches the stationary race, but doesn't touch the moving race. The larger bearing you put in will wear the housing the same way, because it is still rubbing. Add a shoulder that only touches the inner race, and it should last longer.
7:35 you should have printed that the opposite way. it would have taken way less infill to print it on the other side
Yeah, I was looking at that like, "WTF, man, flip it over"
@@gpweaver or at minimum print in 2 parts.... i cant believe a whole roll wasted on support material
I was going to recommend tree supports, but that makes so much more sense. Also take it easy on the infill for parts where weight matters!
Seems like this guy knows what he’s doing…
Was thinking the same thing
Nice! You can use PLA-LW, this is awesome material for quadcopter or airplane. I use pla-lw for small quad and big airplane
I was going to suggest that. 3 kg for the frame with 3D printed motors doesnt sound like it will work all that well together. Maybe it would be worth considering using carbon fibre rods as reinforcement and then you can reduce the amount of 3D printed parts needed.
Is pla lw squishy. I want to 3d print a lightweight mouse shell but don't know if it will be stuff enough
That might help; though id have to pause at the design requirements first. This centre section seems to be designed as some kind of flying tank; not sure that LW-PLA will have the desired penetration resistance against HEAT rounds?.
@@navidmehdi6 I don’t think it is squishy, more just a lightweight foam. It won’t be as stiff as normal PLA but you can also foam it to different amounts to change its density and stiffness.
@@navidmehdi6 Never 3d print something that will be in constant skin contact. You can't clean between the layers and it will get dirty there. If you really want to do it you need a smoothable filament (PVB/ASA/ABS) or use epoxy resin or something like that to smooth.
Love your project, so this is just meant as some positive input:
1. You obviously know how to use CAD, split the body and make ie. dovetails in each part that you lock with small screws and heat inserts. This will be as strong, if not stronger, because it’s gives you the opportunity to print parts of the body in different directions to better accept loads. It also make it easier to make the body lighter.
2. Splitting the body gives you faster prototyping, and you optimize your printer time 10 folds, by not printing so large parts and then have something that fails or in need of a reprinting.
3. To take it completely out, buy a 3-5mm of carbon fiber plate and make that as top and bottom and 3D print the rest of the body.
4. Klipper has nothing to do with your layer problems. Lower the speed at the end of the print, you can do this manually or even with g-code in klipper(mainsail/fluidd/ octoprint).The problem is probably just to inertia/weight to your nema17 motor running your bed with almost 1kg of PLA.
5. In Klipper you can increase the current of each motor (printer.cfg). You can crank it up a bit to help the motor for the bed combat the weight with higher torque ( it will run a lot hotter, but many people are doing it, but that’s up to you)
6. I’m not sure how PLA will hold over time when your motors get warm. PLA starts to deform around 60-70 degrees. ( I have had PLA brackets fail around 55 degrees and deform). it’s simple to enclose the Ender 3 with a cardboard box and print in ABS or even easier ABS+. Don’t try PETG, it’s better than PLA, but a lot weaker to heat and grease/ lubricants than ABS.
7. Perhaps redesign the motor core with the use of resin and try to shave of some space between coils and magnets, it’s difficult, but you will see significant changes in the motorcurves.
8. Since you have access to more than one printer, make one an ABS only printer, while you keep the other to print in open air with PLA.
Anyway, thanks for sharing, looking forward to your next video.
Great comment 👏🏻
as someone who loves my multi day print jobs I would highly recommend z hop or z lift. Some people rebel against it but it helps so much in keeping these sorts of layer shifts from happening .
Is magnetic PLA the best option for the core? Would a metal filled PLA be better? If you can get one that is just filled with iron particles. If not you may have to move away from fully 3D printed motors and instead move onto using metal sheets stacked together like more traditional motors.
Another possibility could be to insert bolts or iron rods into the 3D printed stator, that way the stator is still mainly 3D printed, but may get better performance.
There's two issues there: hysteresis and eddy currents. Iron is actually a poor core material at higher frequencies (which is why modern systems use ferrite almost exclusively, the switching frequencies have outgrown iron).
@6:15 You lifted the box up a bit. 3 more and you may have been able to carry that 2x4 box.
It’s only really obvious at the end of that segment, when the box visibly drops a bit.
for fixing the layer shifts
turn up the y axis current a bit
and tension the belt if its not tensioned enough (too much have the opposite effect)
also i think there is no need for that much infill on the base
its better to use less infill and increase the wall line count
often infill is slower than more walls anyway
the motor lag is probably a combination of both the higher moment of inertia and the non ferrite core, the latter reaching its magnetic saturation point more easily (thus capping the max torque), maybe you should try to redesign the motor with a non magnetic core and just wrap copper windings embedded in resin around it and veeery close to the magnets, you can also hold the magnets from their extremities to shave this distance even more. design wise I think there is a bit too much material here, the arms are way heavier than they have to be and the main body could loose some weight too 😶 still an extremely interesting project, well done !!
*bumps* somewhat my thoghts too. tho i would rather stick with the magnetic PLA then with completely nonmagnetic stuff. Or if feasable get some transformer sheet metal, would bear the better results even but is heavy in that size of motor. And yeah the structure of the arms can probably hold waaay to much. you can sure shave off 60% of the material (and reinforce the dovetail section maybe) But yeah i wont moan one bit. The whole project is dope!
all the important stuff that actually makes a motor a motor, copper wire and rare earth METAL magnets
Should be printing with carbon fiber and half the thickness. Easily cut that weight by 50%.
yes, i thought the body was way more robust than it need be, but this allows lots of practice crashing. i bet the weight could be cut in half
Not sure if this is at all related to your issue, but I had shifting layer issues on my creality ender3 due to overheating of the controller. The thermals were very bad which caused it to momentarily shutdown and restart, but continue the print with small offset errors. I fixed the problem by improving the thermals (just making the control board open to the air)
The problem with those arms are the extra perimiters generated by removing material.
For a 3d print with a certain ammount of outer shells this will add more weight than a sparse infill. Since the outer shell is doing most of the "holding" and the inner material is there to just stop the walls from collapsing you'd be surprised at the low weight savings. You do get a LOT longer print times though. Which you seem to love. 😜
you can also just make them thinner, same number of walls
Did you consider a coreless motor design to reduce weight and improve efficiency? Are you using a hallbach array?
8:05 can you just use sandpaper or something? Idk
First thing came to mind just sand it lol
What tool did you use to perform the topology optimization?
I’ve wanted to use topology optimization for some of my 3D printed parts before as well, but I wasn’t quite sure how to get accurate simulation results that accounts for FDM additive manufacturing of the part. I know that FDM parts are anisotropic, so the orientation of the print, shell width, etc all affect it’s strength. How did you go about it?
Any suggestion about generative design guide? I'm glad to try it.
Could you go into more details regarding the motor build. Like windings etc?
Cool build, can you put the files for the quadcopter in the description?
Just something to note, double check the max drone weight & size limit for your state or province. Here in Canada, we have strict laws limiting the drone weight to 250 grams max without a drone license. I would hate to see your video taken down because this looks AWSOME and some great effort has been put in!
curious why the center part isnt printed upside-down. is there some geometory that needs it printed like that with the huge support inside? id suspect the layer shift is either caused by the weight of the print at the end or your nozzle hits the support material or start of the roof that ends up curling upwards.
7:40 Have you tried printing this part up-side-down? From what I saw, it looks like it would just be easier to print it with support material for the top slightly chamfered areas.
Excellent engine refinement, and where can I download the corrected files?
You can speed up those prints and reduce warping by printing with a larger nozzle (like 1.0mm or so). This will allow you to greatly shell parts and rely almost solely on walls for strength. Cool project!
Too heavy maybe?
any plans on using toroildal propellers?
> have bed slinger (worst design)
> switch to klipper
> don't do any mechanical upgrades
> bump up the speed
> get layer shifts
> blame klipper
> have bed slinger AND almost 1 kg of material on it at the end of the print. that's a lot of mass to move around, no wonder it skipped steps.
Nice work! Would thrust bearings help with the motor
Have you thought about using these PLA prints to cast into aluminum for a lightweight strong material instead of plastic? I like those motors, do you have the STL files for the motors only? Would love to have a shot at building a few for a RC car.
opposite forces act on the motor support arms, opposite to those during the test
6:48 is that an Esp32 on your test rig? I love the things! So useful for everything.
buff quadcopter heck yea
This is awesome the number of times people have told me my AR-15 isn't printed because I use like 10% metal pieces drives me crazy. Good to see 3d printing being pushed forward by non gun creators.
I'm agreeing on the bed slinger and part weight thing but I believe the motors may have gotten too hot. Luckily, if the board implemented it, you can use the configuration fille to adjust the temps quite easily. It also looks like you could probably mod the original part to get that arm 100% seated without losing much if any integrity.
I love generative design, I wish more projects used the optimization features.
overall very cool project
More people would use it if it wasn't behind a paywall.
what tool?
Man would be such a big help, what do you use for generative design?
@@kareemahmed5036 Yes I also want to know ;)
Me too, I want to know which app/ cad software u used to do the generative design.
"I guess this is what I get for switching to Klipper." Can I get the STLs for your upgraded motor please? Really good video and great work on the quad design!
6/00 you test it in the opposite force as the normal usage in drone mode
7:25 Just why did you put so much infill in this piece !!
Hello, Michael Rechtin!
I'm an admirer of your work.
I can't open the ONSHAPE PRO file for the 3D printed drone engine project.
Could you make it available in the regular version?
Cheers!
Please explain what you are doing with that tool at 1:55 with the debur(?) tool.
Will you be sharing your files? / how you winded the motors?
If you already have a solid body and only remove material according to the force flow, it is 'topology optimization'. Generative design, is when the software only gets flange points and has to figure out the rest of the way itself.
But anyway, that is really nice work 👌🏼
Hmmm, dumb question. Can the engine be feeded with more power to reduce the lag? Just the time needed to reaxh 100%
Its crazy how far technology has come, having a machine that prints other flying machines.
Do you model yourself or do you scan a copy of the model and print it?
Can I know what generative tool you used for optimizing the arm design? Is it open/ free for the community to use?
Did you stress test the armature in the wrong direction? Great project BTW, super cool.😎
@Cool Cat : Yes, but at least he knows it should survive a heavy landing! 😉
That's the comment I was looking for.
was looking for a simlar comment AFTER i made mine haha.. what about how it was disigned? the ai probale thinks theres going to be a load so it made it that way.. what if it were hanging? what would it look like then
maybe he's flying it upside down🤣🤣
@@eowen-to1oj when you do the generative modeling you tell the program where the forces are and how strong. In this case it's fixed at the dovetail and the expected load at the hole at the end is ~30 Newtons upwards (3kg).
How are you getting such clean prints? as in seemingly no layer lines on most
This is so amazing to me that it's pretty unbelievable that it could be done, and this is done so well
We just please want the STL files.
@@hendrikjbboss9973 yes:D
I didn’t care about the title until you specified the motors, absolutely fascinating idea! Subscribed, can’t wait for more.
Except the entire motor is not 3d printed. The housing of the motor is 3d printed.
Notes.. as a user of 3d I know it's cool to print one big block of 3d plastic but I've always found smaller component prints with snap on joints or bolts save so much time for print errors . For example in that large body print you could have printed it in three layers and had 3 mm bolts run through it X 4 which compresses the body and adds strength due to bolts. The ability to do this also opens the possibility for the arms to be secured in a way that locks them via those bolts and eliminates that joint from possibly failing . It can also eliminate support material wastage. The arms could be slices into two symetrical parts and bolted or snap fitted and this would allow a small 3 mm steel or carbon rod to strengthen it plus act as an internal cable tray path. A rod spanning the two arms could be used to tension the arms and produce strength and lighten the design. Use of carbon fibre rods can be used in the motor assembly as well as main body to lighten the entire assembly .
By splitting the arms into two parts you can create a hollow interior that can be utilised by cables and strengthening carbon fibre rods
so what program did you use for that generative design? is it free?
Thank for the video, one question: does not deform the pla with the heat of the engines?
I love that you even printed the Motor. It's really creative how you tested it and made soup. Genius! As well as the arms and how you edit. Awesome stuff man!
90% of the motors (by mass) is METAL. 100% of what makes a motor actually spin is made of METAL. This is like dressing a monkey in a fancy suit and teaching it sign language and then call it ENTIRELY 100% human.
@@toolbaggers it's still impressive and I had no idea you could print magnetic PLA
I think the way you are making the videos is for people who just want to be entertained rather than learning something, so I suggest you continue to making videos like a pool full of jelly beans and such
NICE nice video thank you for sharing, but I would like to ask you, can I use this motor size R2308 Kv2600 and use 3 inch propellers ???
I wonder if an encoder would help your motor know where it is and time the pulses better
7:45 why not print it upside down? Looks like it would work but won't need that whole middle part to be supported = less printing time + less material (supports)
I totally would print this, but I'd buy the motors. One project I have never been willing to undertake is wire coils. I would love to DIY a windmill btu that seems like too much work.
This is the first time you showed up in my feed. Do you share designs form your projects?
For the main body piece, you should use the "tree support" mode in CURA so that you use a lot less material.
Great project! So, why don't you optimized central part too? Also interesting how much it will weigh and how much payload would it lift?
I am probably repeating other comments, but:
1. stress test is wrong - the arm will have not compression, but elongation stress. It should be 180 degress turned to withstand real load direction (with motors)
2. with said above - the arm is much weaker than designed, as in this position the main problem would be - delamination because of print orientation.
3. dovetail is inserted from the wrong side. The only thing which is holding the dovetail in place would be a screw. And friction of plastic over plastic. Dovetail also should be rotated to 180 degrees :) motors pull up, core pulls down - instead of sliding out, the dovetail will lock.
4. Infill of the core seem to be Grid - which can withstand only an extremely *low* side load.. if the core is heavy and motors strong - arms will push the sides inside the core = irregular aeroodynamics with tilted rotors, propeller potentially hit the core and so on.
All of it unrelated actually, because everything is done with 100x strength over actually needed. And because of this overkill, a lot of weight is added and works actually only as the useless load.. If one wants to stick to design - less and different infill (Cubic or Gyroid) , more braces instead of "block structure" - the core could just be a plate with underlying "arms" in the same generative design.
Playing some "bridges construction" games really helps to get the idea of stress propagation ;)
They have conductive plastic?
I take it the heat of the motors doesn't melt the printed parts in any way? I am guessing printed with carbon fiber poly to withstand the heat and be stronger?
Are the windings and magnets plastic too id!ot?
Great video and project! Im late to the show, but what tool did you use for the "generative design"(topology optimized) arms?
What generative design tool did you use for the arms?
When things like the layer shift happens, is the print just garbage? What do you do with the bad print?
@michaelrechtin might want to check out @ThioJoe video on spam comments
This seems like it would have been an excellent place to use foaming LW-PLA filament. But I barely passed my physics classes in college, so I can't say for sure the pieces would be able to withstand the necessary forces.
ok @ 7:48, "When They Ask You How You Are..." was well inserted!
What 3d printer would you recommend to someone wanting to get into printing?
Where did you get the stl files for the motors. What cell batteries can they use. I.e. can they do 12s lipos?
love from vietnam
What software do you use?
I learnt something new from you today(generative design) and ended up subscribing. Thank you very much
A thumbs up. But I did i miss somthing. There was no discussion about the motor windings and what / how they were done. Will this be in a different part or in a different video? ~Russ
What generative design software did you use for this project ?. We would all like to know please.
This was my dream back ib the day when I see Mr. Christopher’s video! Ty for sharing
Can you share the generative design tool ?
What software did you use for the generative design?
Will the stl,s be released when this project is done would love to make 1 from my self
The arm dsign seems more like topology optimization, not generative design (similar, but not the same). Very cool outcome nonetheless, great project! Loving it.
This is a very interesting topic, can you explain to me the differences between topology optimization and generative design?
@@ramondepaoli1359 In a nutshell: in generative design, you simply set your boundry conditions, loads and goals, and you get the form of the object (different options for different preferences like less weigh, more strength, etc). In topology optimization, you give the program the base form + load conditions and the program subtracts material from the least necessary areas of the object.
with what software did you implement generative design?
is it for free?
Very cool! How’s the drone mower ?
Like the video. and the 3d quadcopter idea. just wanting to know why your design has that much mass on the motors? wouldnt it be better to design the motor pods to be stationary and just spin the props?
You get much more torque with magnets on the outside, he's struggling a lot with torque as it is (since his core is nowhere near as good as stacked metal plates). Typical brushless quadcopter motors are built the same way with the magnets rotating on the outside (small toy versions will use coreless DC motors though if you're used to seeing that style, that's mostly for cost and skips on brushless motor controllers)
Why not use the generative design tool for the main body?
great quadcopter / this is a cool idea
i recommend to change the rotor wings to the ones at mit, so the brrrrrrrrrr sound will be lessen
How are you printing with such dimensional precision, so that every piece connects perfectly for the motor?
6:23 sounds like the THX theme
Cool Project Michael! One comment on the generative design piece. it seems like you have inverted the loading direction. I think, the are fixed in an inverted nature to the force direction they are designed for.
How about the battery?
Is PLA filament good for outside use! I heard that it's not! One of my friend suggested using ABS material!
PLA isn't UV resistant and can have problems with heat (like being left in a car for longer time on a hot summer day). It'll be fine for the short use outside this is gonna see imo. the problems with UV resistance also only occur if being left outside 24/7 for a longer time.
What motor did you use sir 😳 these are very powerful.
Brilliant Idea and Engineering mate 👌.
A suggestion for another video could be , how to make a drone from sustainable materials.
Loved your work!
"I used generative design"
creates a huge hunk of a non-optimized center section, complains about the amount of filament used.
Hah :D
When you have really big prints like that fail, consider just breaking off the failed portion and re-printing only the removed section. I don't know how critical the geometry is for the drone project, but I'd definitely rather spend an hour carefully separating the failure along a few layers and reprinting what's left in an afternoon rather than 2 days and an entire additional kilo reprinting the entire thing.
What generative design program did you use?
Brilliant.. Just brilliant !!!
Perhaps try printing a motor core mold and making cores out of ferrite powder and epoxy. I don't know if it being a powder would ruin it's magnetic properties or not though, I've personally never worked with anything like this.
0:14 you Americans (along with Liberia and Myanmar) crack me up - still using inches!!! the other 175 countries in the world use metric, you know 10,100,1000,10000 etc etc., so freaking easy.