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Something that I liked about Jackie Chan's action is that in the roles he plays, he always looks vulnerable, but he takes advantage of the environment on the fly to turn the odds. (aside the fact that he does the stunts himself.)
Yeah Jackie Chan's fights in movies look like puzzles, I always think "how the hell is he gonna - oh that's how" and it makes them really fun to watch.
Jackie Chan was in movies grounded on some sort of realism, the Matrix is literally a fictional movie about a virtual world, yet people complain about Neo doing unrealistic fights LMAO. This is what lack of content ideas does to people.
@@ivanaleksandartsanev1693 Well we're talking about Jackie chan here but I think the video is because Matrix 4 is coming out soon, not a good video idea by any means and I didn't even watch it honestly, but it's sort of relevant to talk about the Matrix right now.
yeah i dont think mayos statement really holds up to scrutiny, many characters are the most powerful in their universe which just requires the story to shape themselves around them in a way that fits, which both doom and the matrix do.
@@RhysClark97 matrix was MOVIE with a strong emphasis on character. Doom is a GAME with a tone in cheek silly story that takes a back seat to gameplay. Doom guy is awesome because he's an anti protagonist that doesn't care.
I think Doom Eternal affirms Mayo's stance. If you aren't careful, you'll die within seconds. The better comparison is DMC5, where there's barely any threat at all in the first playthrough. That results into very boring fights, which in turn also affirms Mayo's stance.
@@underthemayo im aware thats why i said powerful characters require the story to shape themselves around them, which i think both doom and the matrix sequels do successfully, if you are watching the chateau fight thinking "man i hope neo doesnt die in this scene" and not "man i hope he can get to morpheus and trinity in time" then i just think you are setting yourself up with unfair expectations for the narrative you have been shown since the very first fight scene of reloaded, that neos struggle has gone from protecting himself to protecting others.
Since Neo is the one, he's expected to be the most powerful being in the Matrix, so he has to kick ass. The whole point of the Smith clone battle was to show just how powerful Smith had become and that eventually Neo has to realise that he will lose to him. For all the ass kicking that Neo does in Reloaded, the scene with the Architect renders all of it futile as we learn that the One is just another system of control, meaning he's far from invincible and may in fact be powerless to save Zion.
Neo wasnt going to lose, that was just lazy writting. The Smiths were just annoyning, the only threat they presented were they been able to take over Neo, something they tried to do when there were 6 of them, but when there were 100, they suddenly forgot they could do that. And the writters realiced they had 1 movie and a half left, so they had Neo flying away. You can throw 1000 Smiths at Neo, it makes no diference, he is freaking god...that is why they had to pull the whole "Oracle Smith is as powerfull as The One" at the end of Revolutions, so they would have a fair fight, but still, it made zero sense, and we never got any explanation as to why Oracle Smith had the same abilities as The One.
@@Jose-se9pu Neo already showed that he can resist Smith's cloning, so it makes no sense that they'd try it again so soon, and at that point Neo wouldn't have let them try again. It does make sense that Smith would be a match for Neo in Revolutions because clearly when he clones himself he absorbs their abilities and strengths. In Reloaded we learn that Seraph is a physical match for Neo, this is because he was one of the previous Ones. So when Smith copied him he had his fighting skills necessary to fight Neo. We know that Smith is spreading like a virus, not only to the Matrix, but will soon spread to the real world if he isn't stopped.
The fight with smith was to let neo realize that the fight would be endless without fulfilling his purpose, which is something that he's been struggling with since being woke. And at this point he doesn't know what his purpose is just that he's getting closer to it and needed to bounce of out of the fight with smith.
I'm a massive fan of the Matrix, including the sequels, and yea I agree with you here. Most of the sequel fights with Neo are just boring, which is what makes the highway chase one of the best bits in the series. I hope your assessment of the Matrix 4 trailer turns out to be true, it would be nice to have another film where Neo is in danger again.
I think the best fight scenes in movies are the ones that have 2 equally skilled opponents that have a good back and forth dynamic that give the illusion that either one could win at any moment
Yeah. If the outcome is predetermined by traditional good conquers evil. Then it seems best to get as much variation between hope vs dread as possible.
What about the ones where the hero or heroes are completely outclassed by their opponent? For example, the first broly movie where broly just wrecks everyone. I remember being on the edge of my seat watching that movie thinking to myself how the hell they're going to beat this guy, he's too op. Also, thanos from the avengers movies.
I totally agree Mayo. I'm thinking of a quote from George Lucas: "A special effect is a tool, a means of telling a story. A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing."
....and the star wars prequels have more meaningless CG than any Matrix movie. I completely disagree for at least the second movie where i was super fuckin hyped to see Neo fight with his powers realised. That shit was fire!!
@@LethalAxis Give us one example of useless CG in prequels. Gunga City? (Maybe this one a little) Escape from Naboo? Boonta eve? First Maul Encounter? Coruscant? Battle of Naboo? Duel of the Fates? Space Battle? Kamino and Clones? Sand People? Battle of Geonosis? (Maybe the concept of a battle arena was a bit weird, instead of public execution, but it is Geonosian culture) Battle of Coruscant? Battle of Utapau? Order 66? Mustafar? Battle of Heroes? I hardly remember any "useless CG". As for the sequel however, I can name several. Worst of all is 'Throne Room Fight'.
Disagree about the fights tbh. The weight of the fights wasn't about Neo's safety. The tension came from him trying to protect the ones he cares about and constantly being separated from them. Morpheus and Trinity being in grave danger was the suspense and tension. I loved 2 and 3.
@@badgasaurus4211 I hear ya. I just don't even know what to say. The sequels are almost universally disliked. Mayo isn't alone in his criticism and he's spot on with his critiques about them.
I have been saying this for a long time now . Good video . People love the GODFATHER not for the murder scenes but for the dialogue and the build up leading into the murder scenes .
You can say what you want about the Matrix sequels, and it's mostly nothing positive, but that the action is boring is the only thing you couldn't say! 😵 The action sequences are superbly choreographed and look beautiful even 20 years later! Neo becoming a god of sorts is the point and part of the cycle of the chosen one. The brawl scene in Reloaded unfortunately doesn't look good at the end, but it should still be respected as it represented what was technically possible at the time and went beyond that!
6:45 ok you defo missed the entire point of the scene. yes...he did in fact expect to beat them until he realized they were multiplying faster than he could....why is that so far fetched, we watched him beat 3 agents earlier in the film without breaking a sweat.
Good video with a lot of valid points but there is one thing I keep hearing that is pretty lame: "He could have just flown away all the time." - yes, he could. But why would he? At first there is Smith and Neo thinks, "weird but let's see what happens". Then more Smiths appear and attack Neo, so he thinks "okay, not good, let's end this once and for all". But during this fight, more and more Smiths appear, and while Neo could have handled the first 8 ones propably, he then realizes "oh crap, that's too much, I need to find another solution" and flys away. There was no reason for him to flee instantly but there was a reason later on.
I think a big thing that impacts how believable a fight comes across is the impression that the fight is being improvised. Obviously it's a movie, so everything is scripted and choreographed, but it needs to feel like everyone is acting on split-second decisions and focusing on getting an upper hand, rather than going through a series of carefully planned out moves that are conveniently timed for their opponent over and over to no avail.
2:10 the conflict in the sequels is never about whether neo will win the fight its whether he will be able to solve the conflict, in the burley brawl...he lost because he simply had no way to prevent the spread of the smith virus...and from a more sub textual side he couldn't resolve his own internal struggle revolving around choice
He didnt lose, the writters just got lazy, they had 1 movies and a half left, they couldnt have Neo killing them or Smith taking over him (which is what was eventually going to happen), so he just flies away.
@@Jose-se9pu because he literally couldnt beat him...like he was incapable, the entire fight is him coming to realise this, he pulls out all the stops, does everything in his power but is still overwhelmed, his defeat is him flying away.... because smith, like neo, was also set free...thats why the final fight in the third film ends with him saying "because i choose to" when asked why he persists...neo literally didnt have to fight smith for that last 20 minutes but the entire point is choice in the face of not having a choice...some people dont understand these movies and it shows
It's sort of like the famous hallway fight in Oldboy. The main character loses his weapon, gets punched and kicked, and gets stabbed, but keeps going. Everyone is slipping around and fighting like their life depends on it. One stuntman even hurts his ankle and they just kept it in the scene because that could actually happen.
I still disagree with your opinions on alien isolation, but I like how your channel is growing and changing all the time and your vids are very well organized and scripted nicely. In relation to the subject of the video, I just think that the direction of the matrix sequels was a drop in quality on all fronts. If you see this comment I'd like to say I'm always happy when I see a new video of yours in my feed, keep up the good work and please God let Resurrections be a semi-decent watch.
I disagree. Reloaded personally had some of my favourite action pieces of all time. The Chateau fight which was peak level action cinema, the 100 Smith battle (which Neo would've eventually lost had he continued to fight evidently showed by how the relentless Smith clones were slowly overwhelming him) and who could forget the incredible freeway chase sequence. The stakes came from Neo fighting for his friends rather than himself and there's also the fact that Neo's powers only gave him a short term advantage over the Machines while *inside* the Matrix, in the real world he'd still be completely powerless before the machines. It's a case of winning a battle but having zero chances of actually winning the war. I'd argue the stakes are higher than ever before in Reloaded, the original Matrix the film made us worry about Neo but Reloaded makes us worry about all of humanity especially when the movie ends with Neo setting humanity down to a path of extinction. I'll agree that Revolutions is where things started to get stale eg the Helheim club shootout was underwhelming compared to the unmatchable lobby shootout from the original but I still enjoyed parts of the Neo-Smith battle (mainly the fights that took place at ground level, the aerial battles were extremely meh).
My sentiments exactly. I have always explained that one word is the catalyst of wether an action scene moves you emotionally or is very boring. That word is Stakes, or lack therof. It's something alot of filmmakers just do not understand, Another example of proof would be Star Wars. The OT/Prequels VS the sequel trilogy. Basically for an action scene to matter, There needs to be Stakes, The consequences of failure or success. I'll cite two examples to show the difference Stakes used well. Star Wars Episode 6 - Return of the Jedi. The ending duel between Luke and Vader. Everything leading up to this confrontation, Luke saw Vader Kill Obi-Wan , Luke began as a near useless whiner, who slowly grew and matured. Despite good intentions more often then not he failed. The revelation that Vader was Luke's father, as well as Vader trying to recruit Luke to overthrow the Emperor, only for the oppression of the Empire to continue, Vader maiming Luke. Vader is the embodiment of consequences should Luke fail. By the final duel between Vader and Luke, There is alot riding on it. Both on the macro and the micro. Even Luke's compassion is used against him. And why it's so meaningful when it's vader who ends up saving Luke. Failure could very well have meant the death of Luke, as well as the continuing of the Empire as Emperor Palpatine would have survived. Stakes not used well. Rey never fails, she never has to struggle. The First Order is all powerful for no reason at all, yet crumble into helplessness when faced with Rey. The main villain Kylo Ren was shown to be a threat at the beginning, suddenly loses all threat when faced with Rey who bests him every time. Rey is never in peril of any kind, Kylo Ren has no ability to affect his surroundings, nor the people near him. He has no influence on Rey at all, except to basically be a bitch for the Mary sue 'most awesomest bestest EVAR' Rey. So consequently, there are no stakes, anywhere. Rey will remain the same, Kylo Ren can't affect anything. The First Order doesn't suffer any consequences from the loss of Starkiller base. Nothing is earned, nothing changes. There are no stakes anywhere. Thus no reason to care.
I sometimes cant tell the difference between the Mayo that makes fun of complaining youtubers and the real Mayo. The lines are real blurry when you're wondering multiple times in the video "wheres all the blood?"
yeah this video feels so off compared to mayos good content. he has made two videos now on the matrix sequels and both times theyre picking appart two of the best things about the sequels, the fight sand the costume design.
@@underthemayo Neo himself sure, but the movie threw that away when the One could be multiple people and SPOILER. Trinity immediately started destroying everything after being the one and destroyed any tension the movie had.
Just recently rewatched the trilogy and disagree entirely on the boring part. While The RAID and the sequel are perfection as far as fight choreography the matrix reloaded definitely still holds up. There was like 3-5 in Revolutions so no comment on that lol. Your explanation was pretty solid tho so I understand why you feel that way. The CGI was distracting tho and I agree with you on the impact SFX and damage
Why does it have to be more believable, when the Matrix is literally a virtual world and someone as powerful as Neo can do whatever the eff he wants? This type of critique makes no sense, unless you are critiquing the whole storyline, so focusing on the fights is totally unfair and a very subjective opinion, based predominantly on personal feelings.
I've been doing stage combat & choreography for a while now (with medieval weapons and all that jazz). I think a big part of a good combat scene is the 'fear' both parties show. If you're dueling with razorsharp blades (don't worry we use blunt ones, but the audience doesn't know that), you're not gonna run into your opponent like there's no tomorrow, you're gonna study your enemy and be careful, while still maintaining your goal: winning the duel. I always love making it unclear who is going to be the 'winner' of the choreography, it adds tension and depth. Much like you said in your video, buildup is a great way to make the action 'beefier', if not more believable and intense. Even in a short duel, a bit of banter, cussing and dialog does wonders for making you relate to the duelists. And the buildup can also determine how both parties will fight, if person A says 'your mother was a lousy wench', person B will be much more furious, perhaps more incareful in combat. Ah! And ofcourse! I agree that fake blood can do wonders for a realistic fight scene! Great video! Keep 'em coming!
I agree with your points and you are technically right, but I feel the action overload is what gives Reloaded it's weird charm. They thought basically to double the philospohy and the action which I can't help but find funny even with it's flaws, I would rather watch the Matrix Sequels fights and the Matrix Sequels in general over the shit Hollywood puts out today. I do argue that the Neo's fight scene with Agents in Reloaded does serve a purpose in that, it establishes Neo's fighting prowless, and how much dependable Neo is. The fight scene was Sarif was that to test Neo to see if he is the one all though his methods of questioning was rather odd. And you could argue that the fight scene in the Chateau WAS SUPPOSED to be an inconvience. It was supposed to get Neo away long enough for the Twins to get some ground on Trinity and Morpheus so they can get the Keymaker. Hell, even the 100 Smith fight can be explained in that it was supposed to re establish Agent Smith and show off his cloning power, and it establishes that Neo can't fix all his problems by fighting everything. And I think Matrix Resurrections is going to be so bad that the Sequels might get more love like Star Wars with the Prequels when the Sequels came out. I never understood this whole mentality when almost any fight in a story can be justified.
For a video more about context than the fight scenes, you sure leave a lot of it out with Reloaded. You can have your opinion, however if you're going to objectively critique a movie's plot and it's characters; and suggest they have no payoffs... You need to keep your feelings out of it.
Just rewatched those fight scenes, and they're both great. The trick is to watch Neo, not his opponents. Watch Neo do cool moves and keep the bad guys in your peripheral, if that makes sense.
the only thing new matrix is missing is the greenish tint which helps separate matrix movies from the rest. You can watch any scene out of context and you'll still be able to make out that it's a matrix movie just by looking at the color of the scene.
Wonderful insightful analysis. I enjoyed the Neo fights from the sequels the first time I watched them, because it was a chance to see how OP Neo had become. But I definitely see your point, how it seemed like there are no stakes whenever he fought.
Good video. Stress, tension, and genuine threats/stakes really can do a lot for a fight. The fights should be the eruption of the story and themes, or at the very least be used to showcase something about a character, otherwise it's flashy shallow timewasting.
That final neo vs oracle Smith fight in the matrix revolutions felt like plot convenience as at any moment Smith could've overwhelmed neo with his clones but decides against it.
I think that when a character becomes completely invincible all fights lose their charm, that's why in that case they should have focused more on showing Neo's personality and relationships instead of "bigger fights lol"
for me it was because in part 1 the unplugged are incredibly skilled but they stand no chance against agents, neo being able to at least stand his ground against smith in the train station is testament to the earlier scene where tank spends 10 hours uploading hundreds of martial arts styles into his brain, but even then he knew he couldnt win so he ran, then when he became the one he toyed with Smith and easily beat him in the sequels its just all long and extended fights of a bored looking Neo where its like yea we get it you know Kung Fu why arent you one shotting these programs or using more of your powers
This I feel is the problem with a lot of movies for the past two decades. They go in to this spectacle mode (I call it movie on rails) where film makers just want to show off an amazing spectacle, but it is completely weightless, there is no tension (or at least very little). Like the scene in Robocop you highlight, if the protagonist is the superior person and there isn't any character development, we don't really need to waste a lot of time on it, just get the scene over with.
If this is your take on the matrix fight scenes, I'd love to hear you talk about one punch man xD. He is quite literally invincible. All he would need to do is punch neo once and he would win lol.
@@underthemayo Exactly, in OPM invincibility is used a running joke for the series, in the matrix it is used a narrative point, both are valid reasons.
THANK YOU I watched these movies at a very young age and just didn't get why everyone seemed to dislike the sequels. While I can still enjoy these movies for what they meant to me growing up I'm glad you pointed out some of the stuff I didn't understand before
I don't know, people usually talk about the sequels like they were awful, this "fights without tension" thing doesn't look like the kind of thing that would make those films so bad. i understand what Mayo was talking about, but i can't see where these are bad movies.
You know what, I'm starting to believe Mayo is smart guy, more than just a good Eternal player. You're the kind of guy I would enjoying discussing our opinions and criticisms after a movie in a theatre.
Wow. Over an hour between major action scenes :O . Certainly sequels being non-stop action meant it got boring. When I first saw the sequels I though "oh maybe the matrix was just a cool gimmick". Saw the first one again years later and it reminded me that it was actually really good.
I guess the character isn't, but the player definitely has to live up to that from countless beatings depending on skill and difficulty. You could argue the Path of Neo game in some ways works better than the sequels because of this.
Final fight in Revolutions is great though, even if it's a rehash of Neo vs Smith from the 1st movie. Environment breaks, characters are pissed off at each other, most of the punches feel heavy, the rain, awesome soundtrack, and Neo feels vulnerable again.
Love the little nod to Brawl in Cell Block 99. Talk about a gritty movie that has almost no violence for half of it and then turns into one of the most visceral, uncomfortably awesome experiences I've ever had watching cinema. The decision to use all diegetic sound is just...mwah. Perfection.
I'd still take any of the sequel fight scenes over the garbage fight scenes of so many superhero films today. And, yes, even the Dragon Ball fight between Neo and Smith.
Same problem Thor had (is not a gender issue), they had to re-invent the character Ragnarok to make her interesting. If you have an OP character, it has to be interesting, that is why they cant manage to make a good Superman movie (with the exception of the first two movies).
funny enough I just got done watching the entire trilogy again with my cousin, honestly didn't think much of the sequels either. It was always felt more could've been desired especially compared to the original, still like them all because of nostalgia though lol. awesome video and have a happy thanksgiving mayo!
every complaint works with fight scenes in the Star wars prequels... lifeless.... actors just going thru choreography, no ones clothes ever get dirty, theres no interaction with the environment (bc its all green screen). when morpheos slams himself through the wall hes got dust all over himself, it actually looks really freaking painful when hes being headbutt'd
you mixed up the bowling ball scene. it's when neo throws one smith into a group. though i never noticed the weird sound effect on the clip you used. is it dice?
Your analysis and breakdown of doom eternal is why I subbed to your channel, your analysis and breakdowns of movies and general life is why I'm still subbed 😄 whatever you talk about you make it so interesting and allow me to see a different perspective. You should be a professional critic because half of these so called critics are awful and haven't a notion what they're talking about.
In the first Matrix movie we didn’t know if Neo could win againts Agent Smith. In the sequels, we clearly saw and knew that Neo had godly powers and really was The One. In the first movie it was more exciting yes, because Neo was sorta like the new guy, people question if he is really The One. But in the sequels he is like Superman, and you expect him to win before the fights start.
This isn't a slam against the video (good video btw) but something I notice a lot when people talk about fight scenes is when they get to the "overly choreographed" argument, I've seen this criticism lauded against the Star Wars prequels mainly but my thing is WHY is that a bad thing? The Raid is probably the most over choreographed film I have ever seen, the amount of care, effort, training and timing that went into filming those fights is insane, it would have made Bruce Lee's jaw drop. Same thing goes for a lot of Jackie Chan's films. I guess it's a case by case basis and it depends from person to person but for me, the fights in the Matrix sequels feel like the characters understanding the simulation more and doing more radical shit as a result, as cheesy and bad the 100 Agent Smith fight is my favorite fight from the sequels, just for how goofy it is.
Opinion: A good fight scene tells a story. So generally when someone says a fight scene is "overly choreographed", they mean that the characters are just doing moves that look cool on-screen, but do not add to the story being told in the fight scene itself. Something can be flashy and over-the-top and impressive looking, but if it does not add to the story, then it comes across as unnecessary and overly choreographed, and it is more style over substance. Personally, I really enjoy the Matrix Reloaded, including the fight scenes. I think just about everything in the Matrix Revolution sucked.
@@RedCaesar97 Using that logic, the Star Wars prequels are better than the Raid. The fights in the Raid don't really tell a story they just move the plot along, meanwhile the meaningful fights in the Prequels happen in the 3rd act, especially Revenge of the Sith.
@@scottroxford5715 I cannot really provide an informed opinion on any of these particular movies as I have not seen them in their entirety. I was merely trying to provide an answer as to your question as to why someone might someone may consider a fight scene to be "overly choreographed" and why that can be considered a bad thing. But a lot of this stuff can boil down to subjective opinion. These are just my general thoughts on the matter related to your question.
@@scottroxford5715 The Raid is an action movie first and story second, in the second movie the story facilitates the action but for a movie with more of a story the fights has to add to the story otherwise it's meaningless
i could not disagree with this video more. I love the camera work and the choreography. Far and away the best part of the entire series is the action and that was only cemented with Reloaded and Ressurections.
Excellent! Couldn’t agree with Mayo more. So long as Neo is one of us, a guy buried in a high-tech corporation with no hope of a bigger narrative to make sense of his life, we identify whole-heartedly with him. After he is flying around like Superman, not so much.
@@underthemayo Thak you for the answer. I don't speak English very well to try and explain why Reload is my favorite part of the trilogy. To justify certain episodes with the reasons and motivations of the characters in each specific scene. All can I say is that after philosophy in general and some quotes in particular, for me, Reload is quintessence of a Power Fantasy (same with Blade and Hancock - my favorite superhero movies). It's just cool and fun.
@ Under The Mayo, Little surprised you didn't mention the lobby shootout scene from the first film... I'd say it is without question the best action scene from that movie... Everything from the confident audacity Neo puts on display by walking through the metal detector with the firepower of an armory on his person, to him feeling the need to respond to the guards exclamation of "holy shit" with a "yeah" and a head nod absolutely dripping with swagger, and then of course we are treated to an epic display of artistic gunplay unlike anything anyone had seen before, extremely unique and despite being over the top it wasn't unbelievable by any means. It was just awesome. I could watch that scene daily and not grow tired of it. I guess, I'm mostly curious if there is a specific reason why you didn't reference this scene? I can't imagine you think that scene is garbage? Anyway, sorry for the long winded comment, this is not a criticism of your analysis/comparison at all, I agree 100% with regard to the sequels action... It felt very uninspired, too often unrealistic, and like the sequences were only there because of how amazing the first movies action was and they knew people would want to have that kind of experience again. Sadly, it was a swing and a miss. Optimistic about the new one coming in December, but from what I've seen, definitely feels like were gonna get an experience similar to the 2 sequels coupled with a money grab... Anyway, love the content, Mayo, the love and thought you put into your videos is obvious. Always fair assessments of that which you are reviewing regardless of what may have been done previously by a particular developer or IP. Just know very few offer the same level of quality content consistently and I appreciate the time you put into your work. If something is worth doing, it's worth doing right. Refreshing to know you appear to live by a similar code... Cheers brother, thanks again! Full Auto Mod, Squad-Up!
Even as a huge fan of the Matrix I wish Neo had started breaking bones on all those agents. I wanted to see bloody bodies laying all around. Instead, they literally all just kept getting back up completely unharmed. Not even a ruffled tie.. It was like a game with invicibility turned on for everyone. You'd have fun playing for a bit then you'd just get bored and turn the game off. (Or fly away in this case lol)
Un-related to this video, you made me check out Doom Eternal again and holy shit I haven’t had so much fun in a long time. I also checked out God of War again, and I agree, on a second playthrough after the novelty wore off it was a struggle to get through
Totally nailed it. The sequels were a massive disappointment for me. And it’s not that I hate them and I appreciate anyone who enjoys them for what they are but that first Matrix movie was like a religious experience for me as a moviegoer. Resurrections looks like it can be very good if they get it right and I’m looking for forward to going back into The Matrix.
I don't know if you've seen a lot of Jackie Chan movies, but his tend to let him get hurt plenty. It makes you root for him in a very efficient, entertaining way
Did you just insinuate that The Matrix used wires and then Crouching Tiger did? Dude, decades of Hong Kong cinema would like a word with you! In fact all of Chinese action movies from the 70s to now would like a word.
Ok, but you missed the point of Reloaded. Neo was nigh invincible, but his friends weren’t. The drama was him trying to save them. Yes, the CGI was atrocious, but Neo never being in danger wasn’t the crux of the drama.
Well if Neo was nigh invincible and not his friends, then why don't those 100 Agent Smiths go and attack THEM instead of HIM?? It still doesn't really seem to make sense according to that logic.
I understand and agree with your points in this video, yet somehow I found _Ip Man_ to be a strange exception, and I can't figure out why. Donny Yen absolutely wrecks every single opponent he faces without breaking a sweat, yet I was never bored at any point. I've watched that movie over and over!
I think all of this points to a deep-seated flaw I've noticed in (at least modern) Hollywood. It goes like this : Awesome trend-setting movie is made, and happens to be wildly successful at the box-office, as well as with the critics. YAY IT WORKED!!! LET'S MAKE SOME MORE OF THEM AND MILK THE FRANCHISE 'TILL THERE AIN'T NO MORE MARROW LET TO MILK.. AND THEN, LET'S MILK IT SOME MORE!!!! (Case-in-point : ''The Matrix-Resurrections''). My point is that once movie magic has happenned, it can never be fully re-created. New stuff needs to be made (even when dealing with a sequel, and I believe Terminator 2 to be the best example of this actually working). This trend in Hollywood of constantly re-hashing old stuff with only ''Nostalgia'' as an argument, I personally find to be quite degrading to the entire industry, and to me as a spectator, even if I choose to skip those films. I just find it has a blatant disregard for artistic integrity, as well as being an insult to the intelligence of the audience.
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Something that I liked about Jackie Chan's action is that in the roles he plays, he always looks vulnerable, but he takes advantage of the environment on the fly to turn the odds. (aside the fact that he does the stunts himself.)
Its also because he's literally getting his legs, jaw, ribs, and hands broken lol
Yeah Jackie Chan's fights in movies look like puzzles, I always think "how the hell is he gonna - oh that's how" and it makes them really fun to watch.
@@LilyApus and a lot of his fight scenes always have some unexpected funny moments like in Drunken Master
Jackie Chan was in movies grounded on some sort of realism, the Matrix is literally a fictional movie about a virtual world, yet people complain about Neo doing unrealistic fights LMAO. This is what lack of content ideas does to people.
@@ivanaleksandartsanev1693 Well we're talking about Jackie chan here but I think the video is because Matrix 4 is coming out soon, not a good video idea by any means and I didn't even watch it honestly, but it's sort of relevant to talk about the Matrix right now.
"When heroes are perfect and invincible, they are uninteresting and boring"
Doomguy: *loads Super Shotgun*
yeah i dont think mayos statement really holds up to scrutiny, many characters are the most powerful in their universe which just requires the story to shape themselves around them in a way that fits, which both doom and the matrix do.
@@RhysClark97 matrix was MOVIE with a strong emphasis on character. Doom is a GAME with a tone in cheek silly story that takes a back seat to gameplay. Doom guy is awesome because he's an anti protagonist that doesn't care.
I think Doom Eternal affirms Mayo's stance. If you aren't careful, you'll die within seconds. The better comparison is DMC5, where there's barely any threat at all in the first playthrough. That results into very boring fights, which in turn also affirms Mayo's stance.
@@underthemayo im aware thats why i said powerful characters require the story to shape themselves around them, which i think both doom and the matrix sequels do successfully, if you are watching the chateau fight thinking "man i hope neo doesnt die in this scene" and not "man i hope he can get to morpheus and trinity in time" then i just think you are setting yourself up with unfair expectations for the narrative you have been shown since the very first fight scene of reloaded, that neos struggle has gone from protecting himself to protecting others.
What about Saitama. He is literally God Mode but one of the best written charachters I have seen in a long while.
"characters shouldn't be invincible right from the beginning"
isekai writers: im gonna pretend i didn't hear that
Me: What if, they start as an apex, get knocked down a few pegs later, and have to re-learn everything about simply "being"
God that genre is such a plague in the manga and anime industries
One Punch Man has entered the chat
@@j.1759 At least you get to see other characters doing the struggling and development.
@@j.1759 Warning! The DOOM Slayer has entered the chat.
Since Neo is the one, he's expected to be the most powerful being in the Matrix, so he has to kick ass. The whole point of the Smith clone battle was to show just how powerful Smith had become and that eventually Neo has to realise that he will lose to him.
For all the ass kicking that Neo does in Reloaded, the scene with the Architect renders all of it futile as we learn that the One is just another system of control, meaning he's far from invincible and may in fact be powerless to save Zion.
Neo wasnt going to lose, that was just lazy writting.
The Smiths were just annoyning, the only threat they presented were they been able to take over Neo, something they tried to do when there were 6 of them, but when there were 100, they suddenly forgot they could do that.
And the writters realiced they had 1 movie and a half left, so they had Neo flying away.
You can throw 1000 Smiths at Neo, it makes no diference, he is freaking god...that is why they had to pull the whole "Oracle Smith is as powerfull as The One" at the end of Revolutions, so they would have a fair fight, but still, it made zero sense, and we never got any explanation as to why Oracle Smith had the same abilities as The One.
@@Jose-se9pu yes he was...how do you watch the burly brawl and come to any other conclusion than "neo cannot defeat smith right now"
@@Jose-se9pu Neo already showed that he can resist Smith's cloning, so it makes no sense that they'd try it again so soon, and at that point Neo wouldn't have let them try again.
It does make sense that Smith would be a match for Neo in Revolutions because clearly when he clones himself he absorbs their abilities and strengths. In Reloaded we learn that Seraph is a physical match for Neo, this is because he was one of the previous Ones. So when Smith copied him he had his fighting skills necessary to fight Neo.
We know that Smith is spreading like a virus, not only to the Matrix, but will soon spread to the real world if he isn't stopped.
@@RhysClark97 agreed. The whole idea of the burly brawl is to show that Smith is getting more and more powerful and too much for Neo to handle.
The fight with smith was to let neo realize that the fight would be endless without fulfilling his purpose, which is something that he's been struggling with since being woke. And at this point he doesn't know what his purpose is just that he's getting closer to it and needed to bounce of out of the fight with smith.
I'm a massive fan of the Matrix, including the sequels, and yea I agree with you here. Most of the sequel fights with Neo are just boring, which is what makes the highway chase one of the best bits in the series. I hope your assessment of the Matrix 4 trailer turns out to be true, it would be nice to have another film where Neo is in danger again.
I think the best fight scenes in movies are the ones that have 2 equally skilled opponents that have a good back and forth dynamic that give the illusion that either one could win at any moment
Yeah. If the outcome is predetermined by traditional good conquers evil. Then it seems best to get as much variation between hope vs dread as possible.
What about the ones where the hero or heroes are completely outclassed by their opponent? For example, the first broly movie where broly just wrecks everyone. I remember being on the edge of my seat watching that movie thinking to myself how the hell they're going to beat this guy, he's too op. Also, thanos from the avengers movies.
@@invadazim4320 yeah that's called a power dynamic which is what I was talking about.
@@sgtspoon2313 I thought you were talking about 2 equally skilled opponents not an op antagonist who obliterates everyone.
@@invadazim4320I was. thanos vs avengers are equally matched. Should've said it differently but you know what I mean
I totally agree Mayo.
I'm thinking of a quote from George Lucas:
"A special effect is a tool, a means of telling a story. A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing."
....and the star wars prequels have more meaningless CG than any Matrix movie. I completely disagree for at least the second movie where i was super fuckin hyped to see Neo fight with his powers realised. That shit was fire!!
@@LethalAxis
I agree the prequels are shit, but Lucas ironically did say that back in the 70s, and he was right.
"You said it, George. Wait, *you* said that??" -Plinkett
@@LethalAxis Give us one example of useless CG in prequels.
Gunga City? (Maybe this one a little)
Escape from Naboo?
Boonta eve?
First Maul Encounter?
Coruscant?
Battle of Naboo?
Duel of the Fates?
Space Battle?
Kamino and Clones?
Sand People?
Battle of Geonosis? (Maybe the concept of a battle arena was a bit weird, instead of public execution, but it is Geonosian culture)
Battle of Coruscant?
Battle of Utapau?
Order 66?
Mustafar?
Battle of Heroes?
I hardly remember any "useless CG".
As for the sequel however, I can name several. Worst of all is 'Throne Room Fight'.
Disagree about the fights tbh. The weight of the fights wasn't about Neo's safety. The tension came from him trying to protect the ones he cares about and constantly being separated from them. Morpheus and Trinity being in grave danger was the suspense and tension. I loved 2 and 3.
Same, it feels as though everyone tries to find stuff to hate about the sequels. I loved the action in Reloaded, the fights were amazing
Oof
@@abstractdaddy1384 Great addition to the discussion
@@badgasaurus4211
I hear ya. I just don't even know what to say. The sequels are almost universally disliked. Mayo isn't alone in his criticism and he's spot on with his critiques about them.
That is only ONE scene, and the reason why Morpheus fighting the Agent worked, is because Morpheus could lose.
Which is not the case with Neo.
I have been saying this for a long time now . Good video . People love the GODFATHER not for the murder scenes but for the dialogue and the build up leading into the murder scenes .
You can say what you want about the Matrix sequels, and it's mostly nothing positive, but that the action is boring is the only thing you couldn't say! 😵
The action sequences are superbly choreographed and look beautiful even 20 years later!
Neo becoming a god of sorts is the point and part of the cycle of the chosen one.
The brawl scene in Reloaded unfortunately doesn't look good at the end, but it should still be respected as it represented what was technically possible at the time and went beyond that!
6:45 ok you defo missed the entire point of the scene. yes...he did in fact expect to beat them until he realized they were multiplying faster than he could....why is that so far fetched, we watched him beat 3 agents earlier in the film without breaking a sweat.
Yeah this guy seems to not even comprehend what he’s watching.
Neo is the freaking One, he could have ripped apart the park with all the Smith in there.
@@Jose-se9pu more to the point, that wouldnt have really solved anything.
@@Jose-se9pu Neo is only an all powerful being who can control things with his mind when the script needs him to be.
@@underthemayo you just summed up basically every superhero movie
Matrix 1 is just Goated
Good video with a lot of valid points but there is one thing I keep hearing that is pretty lame: "He could have just flown away all the time." - yes, he could. But why would he? At first there is Smith and Neo thinks, "weird but let's see what happens". Then more Smiths appear and attack Neo, so he thinks "okay, not good, let's end this once and for all". But during this fight, more and more Smiths appear, and while Neo could have handled the first 8 ones propably, he then realizes "oh crap, that's too much, I need to find another solution" and flys away. There was no reason for him to flee instantly but there was a reason later on.
I think a big thing that impacts how believable a fight comes across is the impression that the fight is being improvised. Obviously it's a movie, so everything is scripted and choreographed, but it needs to feel like everyone is acting on split-second decisions and focusing on getting an upper hand, rather than going through a series of carefully planned out moves that are conveniently timed for their opponent over and over to no avail.
2:10 the conflict in the sequels is never about whether neo will win the fight its whether he will be able to solve the conflict, in the burley brawl...he lost because he simply had no way to prevent the spread of the smith virus...and from a more sub textual side he couldn't resolve his own internal struggle revolving around choice
And that's why its boring.
He didnt lose, the writters just got lazy, they had 1 movies and a half left, they couldnt have Neo killing them or Smith taking over him (which is what was eventually going to happen), so he just flies away.
@@Jose-se9pu because he literally couldnt beat him...like he was incapable, the entire fight is him coming to realise this, he pulls out all the stops, does everything in his power but is still overwhelmed, his defeat is him flying away.... because smith, like neo, was also set free...thats why the final fight in the third film ends with him saying "because i choose to" when asked why he persists...neo literally didnt have to fight smith for that last 20 minutes but the entire point is choice in the face of not having a choice...some people dont understand these movies and it shows
@@Jose-se9pu Don't bother man. You can't win against Martrix sequels fan that obsessively comment 12 times on a single video.
@@underthemayo Funny you say that considering Jose is the one obsessively replying to anyone disagreeing with your analysis.
It's sort of like the famous hallway fight in Oldboy. The main character loses his weapon, gets punched and kicked, and gets stabbed, but keeps going. Everyone is slipping around and fighting like their life depends on it. One stuntman even hurts his ankle and they just kept it in the scene because that could actually happen.
I still disagree with your opinions on alien isolation, but I like how your channel is growing and changing all the time and your vids are very well organized and scripted nicely. In relation to the subject of the video, I just think that the direction of the matrix sequels was a drop in quality on all fronts. If you see this comment I'd like to say I'm always happy when I see a new video of yours in my feed, keep up the good work and please God let Resurrections be a semi-decent watch.
I disagree. Reloaded personally had some of my favourite action pieces of all time. The Chateau fight which was peak level action cinema, the 100 Smith battle (which Neo would've eventually lost had he continued to fight evidently showed by how the relentless Smith clones were slowly overwhelming him) and who could forget the incredible freeway chase sequence. The stakes came from Neo fighting for his friends rather than himself and there's also the fact that Neo's powers only gave him a short term advantage over the Machines while *inside* the Matrix, in the real world he'd still be completely powerless before the machines. It's a case of winning a battle but having zero chances of actually winning the war. I'd argue the stakes are higher than ever before in Reloaded, the original Matrix the film made us worry about Neo but Reloaded makes us worry about all of humanity especially when the movie ends with Neo setting humanity down to a path of extinction. I'll agree that Revolutions is where things started to get stale eg the Helheim club shootout was underwhelming compared to the unmatchable lobby shootout from the original but I still enjoyed parts of the Neo-Smith battle (mainly the fights that took place at ground level, the aerial battles were extremely meh).
My sentiments exactly. I have always explained that one word is the catalyst of wether an action scene moves you emotionally or is very boring. That word is Stakes, or lack therof. It's something alot of filmmakers just do not understand, Another example of proof would be Star Wars. The OT/Prequels VS the sequel trilogy.
Basically for an action scene to matter, There needs to be Stakes, The consequences of failure or success. I'll cite two examples to show the difference
Stakes used well. Star Wars Episode 6 - Return of the Jedi. The ending duel between Luke and Vader. Everything leading up to this confrontation, Luke saw Vader Kill Obi-Wan , Luke began as a near useless whiner, who slowly grew and matured. Despite good intentions more often then not he failed. The revelation that Vader was Luke's father, as well as Vader trying to recruit Luke to overthrow the Emperor, only for the oppression of the Empire to continue, Vader maiming Luke. Vader is the embodiment of consequences should Luke fail. By the final duel between Vader and Luke, There is alot riding on it. Both on the macro and the micro. Even Luke's compassion is used against him. And why it's so meaningful when it's vader who ends up saving Luke. Failure could very well have meant the death of Luke, as well as the continuing of the Empire as Emperor Palpatine would have survived.
Stakes not used well. Rey never fails, she never has to struggle. The First Order is all powerful for no reason at all, yet crumble into helplessness when faced with Rey. The main villain Kylo Ren was shown to be a threat at the beginning, suddenly loses all threat when faced with Rey who bests him every time. Rey is never in peril of any kind, Kylo Ren has no ability to affect his surroundings, nor the people near him. He has no influence on Rey at all, except to basically be a bitch for the Mary sue 'most awesomest bestest EVAR' Rey. So consequently, there are no stakes, anywhere. Rey will remain the same, Kylo Ren can't affect anything. The First Order doesn't suffer any consequences from the loss of Starkiller base. Nothing is earned, nothing changes. There are no stakes anywhere. Thus no reason to care.
I was watching the trilogy again with my girl these days. I didnt remember how much happens in the first movie and how little happens in the sequels
I sometimes cant tell the difference between the Mayo that makes fun of complaining youtubers and the real Mayo. The lines are real blurry when you're wondering multiple times in the video "wheres all the blood?"
yeah this video feels so off compared to mayos good content. he has made two videos now on the matrix sequels and both times theyre picking appart two of the best things about the sequels, the fight sand the costume design.
@@RhysClark97 I like this channel and just hope he doesn't lean into the cheap hottake RUclipsr thing too much.
I'll talk about whatever I want.
@@malcolmbranch10 same here.
NEVER FORGET in the 2nd movie they legit had a bowling ball and pins sound effect in a fight.
Huh? The chateau fight isn't even boring
Man that comment on resurrections aged poorly…
That one aspect of neo being vulnerable again I think I was still right on. The movie was not good though.
@@underthemayo Neo himself sure, but the movie threw that away when the One could be multiple people and SPOILER.
Trinity immediately started destroying everything after being the one and destroyed any tension the movie had.
Just recently rewatched the trilogy and disagree entirely on the boring part. While The RAID and the sequel are perfection as far as fight choreography the matrix reloaded definitely still holds up. There was like 3-5 in Revolutions so no comment on that lol. Your explanation was pretty solid tho so I understand why you feel that way. The CGI was distracting tho and I agree with you on the impact SFX and damage
Why does it have to be more believable, when the Matrix is literally a virtual world and someone as powerful as Neo can do whatever the eff he wants? This type of critique makes no sense, unless you are critiquing the whole storyline, so focusing on the fights is totally unfair and a very subjective opinion, based predominantly on personal feelings.
because... this video is based on his own subjective opinion? you kinda answered yourself lol
@@arya6250 He's saying the sequel fight scenes carried no weight, is boring, and lack logic. That's not an opinion. That's wrong.
I've been doing stage combat & choreography for a while now (with medieval weapons and all that jazz). I think a big part of a good combat scene is the 'fear' both parties show. If you're dueling with razorsharp blades (don't worry we use blunt ones, but the audience doesn't know that), you're not gonna run into your opponent like there's no tomorrow, you're gonna study your enemy and be careful, while still maintaining your goal: winning the duel. I always love making it unclear who is going to be the 'winner' of the choreography, it adds tension and depth.
Much like you said in your video, buildup is a great way to make the action 'beefier', if not more believable and intense. Even in a short duel, a bit of banter, cussing and dialog does wonders for making you relate to the duelists. And the buildup can also determine how both parties will fight, if person A says 'your mother was a lousy wench', person B will be much more furious, perhaps more incareful in combat.
Ah! And ofcourse! I agree that fake blood can do wonders for a realistic fight scene!
Great video! Keep 'em coming!
what is the background music you are using on this video near the end i love it lol!
Good video, well put together as per usual - you're itching to drop that Robocop analysis video aren't you? Not long now hopefully!!👍
I agree with your points and you are technically right, but I feel the action overload is what gives Reloaded it's weird charm. They thought basically to double the philospohy and the action which I can't help but find funny even with it's flaws, I would rather watch the Matrix Sequels fights and the Matrix Sequels in general over the shit Hollywood puts out today.
I do argue that the Neo's fight scene with Agents in Reloaded does serve a purpose in that, it establishes Neo's fighting prowless, and how much dependable Neo is. The fight scene was Sarif was that to test Neo to see if he is the one all though his methods of questioning was rather odd. And you could argue that the fight scene in the Chateau WAS SUPPOSED to be an inconvience. It was supposed to get Neo away long enough for the Twins to get some ground on Trinity and Morpheus so they can get the Keymaker. Hell, even the 100 Smith fight can be explained in that it was supposed to re establish Agent Smith and show off his cloning power, and it establishes that Neo can't fix all his problems by fighting everything.
And I think Matrix Resurrections is going to be so bad that the Sequels might get more love like Star Wars with the Prequels when the Sequels came out.
I never understood this whole mentality when almost any fight in a story can be justified.
For a video more about context than the fight scenes, you sure leave a lot of it out with Reloaded.
You can have your opinion, however if you're going to objectively critique a movie's plot and it's characters; and suggest they have no payoffs... You need to keep your feelings out of it.
You really feel it especially when Morpheuses head breaks the toilet
Just rewatched those fight scenes, and they're both great. The trick is to watch Neo, not his opponents. Watch Neo do cool moves and keep the bad guys in your peripheral, if that makes sense.
the only thing new matrix is missing is the greenish tint which helps separate matrix movies from the rest. You can watch any scene out of context and you'll still be able to make out that it's a matrix movie just by looking at the color of the scene.
I get where you are coming from. I still enjoyed those other fight scenes cus they were fun to watch. Not impacting but fun.
The car chase in Reloaded was good, but nothing else even comes close to the original's fight scenes.
Wonderful insightful analysis. I enjoyed the Neo fights from the sequels the first time I watched them, because it was a chance to see how OP Neo had become. But I definitely see your point, how it seemed like there are no stakes whenever he fought.
Thanks for this one, Mayo.
I've been having endless discussions with my friends about this exact same topic and very few of them actually get it.
Good video. Stress, tension, and genuine threats/stakes really can do a lot for a fight. The fights should be the eruption of the story and themes, or at the very least be used to showcase something about a character, otherwise it's flashy shallow timewasting.
Do you agree these fights have no stress, tension, or genuine threats, though?
That final neo vs oracle Smith fight in the matrix revolutions felt like plot convenience as at any moment Smith could've overwhelmed neo with his clones but decides against it.
I think that when a character becomes completely invincible all fights lose their charm, that's why in that case they should have focused more on showing Neo's personality and relationships instead of "bigger fights lol"
i cant say i agree at all
This is basically also why the fights in the Star Wars OT work and the fights in the prequels don't.
Nothing can match Tsui Hark and John Woo’s editing skills
for me it was because in part 1 the unplugged are incredibly skilled but they stand no chance against agents, neo being able to at least stand his ground against smith in the train station is testament to the earlier scene where tank spends 10 hours uploading hundreds of martial arts styles into his brain, but even then he knew he couldnt win so he ran, then when he became the one he toyed with Smith and easily beat him
in the sequels its just all long and extended fights of a bored looking Neo where its like yea we get it you know Kung Fu why arent you one shotting these programs or using more of your powers
thats your opinion , but u'r completely wrong abt everything you said
This I feel is the problem with a lot of movies for the past two decades.
They go in to this spectacle mode (I call it movie on rails) where film makers just want to show off an amazing spectacle, but it is completely weightless, there is no tension (or at least very little).
Like the scene in Robocop you highlight, if the protagonist is the superior person and there isn't any character development, we don't really need to waste a lot of time on it, just get the scene over with.
If this is your take on the matrix fight scenes, I'd love to hear you talk about one punch man xD. He is quite literally invincible. All he would need to do is punch neo once and he would win lol.
That's different cause it's a story about his invincibility and the feelings he has about it.
Let's not forget that OPM was a comedy show first, action later
Very good points :D.
@@underthemayo Exactly, in OPM invincibility is used a running joke for the series, in the matrix it is used a narrative point, both are valid reasons.
THANK YOU I watched these movies at a very young age and just didn't get why everyone seemed to dislike the sequels. While I can still enjoy these movies for what they meant to me growing up I'm glad you pointed out some of the stuff I didn't understand before
I don't know, people usually talk about the sequels like they were awful, this "fights without tension" thing doesn't look like the kind of thing that would make those films so bad. i understand what Mayo was talking about, but i can't see where these are bad movies.
You know what, I'm starting to believe Mayo is smart guy, more than just a good Eternal player.
You're the kind of guy I would enjoying discussing our opinions and criticisms after a movie in a theatre.
I'd have to disagree with you but art is subjective so I respect your opinion
Wow. Over an hour between major action scenes :O . Certainly sequels being non-stop action meant it got boring.
When I first saw the sequels I though "oh maybe the matrix was just a cool gimmick". Saw the first one again years later and it reminded me that it was actually really good.
13 year old me was blown away by the Matrix Reloaded in the Cinema.
I'm just glad they're finally making a sequel to Matrix, 22 years has been long enough.
Wait, people are actually excited for that?
@@DoomWar1 given they haven't made a sequel before, i think it's about time, we'll see whether it's good
lol. Nope it's another sequel disaster.
@@montazownianr1 yea lol
"If the character is op and not in trouble it's boring"
Doom slayer: am I a joke to you?
I guess the character isn't, but the player definitely has to live up to that from countless beatings depending on skill and difficulty.
You could argue the Path of Neo game in some ways works better than the sequels because of this.
Final fight in Revolutions is great though, even if it's a rehash of Neo vs Smith from the 1st movie. Environment breaks, characters are pissed off at each other, most of the punches feel heavy, the rain, awesome soundtrack, and Neo feels vulnerable again.
Love the little nod to Brawl in Cell Block 99. Talk about a gritty movie that has almost no violence for half of it and then turns into one of the most visceral, uncomfortably awesome experiences I've ever had watching cinema. The decision to use all diegetic sound is just...mwah. Perfection.
I'd still take any of the sequel fight scenes over the garbage fight scenes of so many superhero films today. And, yes, even the Dragon Ball fight between Neo and Smith.
The part where neo is beating the crap out of all the agent smiths kinda reminds me of dynasty warriors
This makes me think of MCU's Captain Marvel. She's never in danger, she's definitely overpowered and the action scenes suffer for it.
yeah he put a few scenes of her when talking about invincible characters lol
Same problem Thor had (is not a gender issue), they had to re-invent the character Ragnarok to make her interesting.
If you have an OP character, it has to be interesting, that is why they cant manage to make a good Superman movie (with the exception of the first two movies).
@@Jose-se9pu All star superman
funny enough I just got done watching the entire trilogy again with my cousin, honestly didn't think much of the sequels either. It was always felt more could've been desired especially compared to the original, still like them all because of nostalgia though lol. awesome video and have a happy thanksgiving mayo!
every complaint works with fight scenes in the Star wars prequels... lifeless.... actors just going thru choreography, no ones clothes ever get dirty, theres no interaction with the environment (bc its all green screen). when morpheos slams himself through the wall hes got dust all over himself, it actually looks really freaking painful when hes being headbutt'd
Celeste and The Messenger are both on sale on steam and I'm not sure which one to get. Help.
you mixed up the bowling ball scene. it's when neo throws one smith into a group. though i never noticed the weird sound effect on the clip you used. is it dice?
Your analysis and breakdown of doom eternal is why I subbed to your channel, your analysis and breakdowns of movies and general life is why I'm still subbed 😄 whatever you talk about you make it so interesting and allow me to see a different perspective. You should be a professional critic because half of these so called critics are awful and haven't a notion what they're talking about.
In the first Matrix movie we didn’t know if Neo could win againts Agent Smith. In the sequels, we clearly saw and knew that Neo had godly powers and really was The One. In the first movie it was more exciting yes, because Neo was sorta like the new guy, people question if he is really The One. But in the sequels he is like Superman, and you expect him to win before the fights start.
This isn't a slam against the video (good video btw) but something I notice a lot when people talk about fight scenes is when they get to the "overly choreographed" argument, I've seen this criticism lauded against the Star Wars prequels mainly but my thing is WHY is that a bad thing? The Raid is probably the most over choreographed film I have ever seen, the amount of care, effort, training and timing that went into filming those fights is insane, it would have made Bruce Lee's jaw drop. Same thing goes for a lot of Jackie Chan's films.
I guess it's a case by case basis and it depends from person to person but for me, the fights in the Matrix sequels feel like the characters understanding the simulation more and doing more radical shit as a result, as cheesy and bad the 100 Agent Smith fight is my favorite fight from the sequels, just for how goofy it is.
Opinion: A good fight scene tells a story. So generally when someone says a fight scene is "overly choreographed", they mean that the characters are just doing moves that look cool on-screen, but do not add to the story being told in the fight scene itself. Something can be flashy and over-the-top and impressive looking, but if it does not add to the story, then it comes across as unnecessary and overly choreographed, and it is more style over substance.
Personally, I really enjoy the Matrix Reloaded, including the fight scenes. I think just about everything in the Matrix Revolution sucked.
@@RedCaesar97 Using that logic, the Star Wars prequels are better than the Raid. The fights in the Raid don't really tell a story they just move the plot along, meanwhile the meaningful fights in the Prequels happen in the 3rd act, especially Revenge of the Sith.
@@scottroxford5715 I cannot really provide an informed opinion on any of these particular movies as I have not seen them in their entirety. I was merely trying to provide an answer as to your question as to why someone might someone may consider a fight scene to be "overly choreographed" and why that can be considered a bad thing.
But a lot of this stuff can boil down to subjective opinion. These are just my general thoughts on the matter related to your question.
@@scottroxford5715 The Raid is an action movie first and story second, in the second movie the story facilitates the action but for a movie with more of a story the fights has to add to the story otherwise it's meaningless
i could not disagree with this video more. I love the camera work and the choreography. Far and away the best part of the entire series is the action and that was only cemented with Reloaded and Ressurections.
Hey Mayo, I would like to ask if you plan to play Sifu?
Smh, you just want every action movie fight scene to be Doom Eternal
You're totally wrong dude, that was the dominoes sound clip you showed, the bowling pin sound is earlier when he throws a Smith into Smiths 😉
i dont even remember much of the matrix i only remember keanu reeves jumped inside a guy and exploded him
hardest ive laughed at a non comedic scene
Excellent! Couldn’t agree with Mayo more. So long as Neo is one of us, a guy buried in a high-tech corporation with no hope of a bigger narrative to make sense of his life, we identify whole-heartedly with him. After he is flying around like Superman, not so much.
A Like for the Brawl in Cell Block 99 shout out.
1:45 the invincible protagonist actually can be done right - some of the best examples are Hokuto no Ken and movies with Bruce Lee.
There's always the exception!
Let me ask you a question: if you come across a pack of monsters or a mini-boss that you can skip, will you kill them? why?
Depends on how well the game has gotten me to enjoy the combat by that point and if there's an incentive for not skipping it.
@@underthemayo Thak you for the answer.
I don't speak English very well to try and explain why Reload is my favorite part of the trilogy. To justify certain episodes with the reasons and motivations of the characters in each specific scene.
All can I say is that after philosophy in general and some quotes in particular, for me, Reload is quintessence of a Power Fantasy (same with Blade and Hancock - my favorite superhero movies). It's just cool and fun.
The Chateau fight scene though ...
I actually agree with a lot of this. Reloaded was far too clean looking.
Hard disagree. Especially when considering The Matrix Reloaded. Has some of my favorite fight scenes ever.
@ Under The Mayo, Little surprised you didn't mention the lobby shootout scene from the first film... I'd say it is without question the best action scene from that movie... Everything from the confident audacity Neo puts on display by walking through the metal detector with the firepower of an armory on his person, to him feeling the need to respond to the guards exclamation of "holy shit" with a "yeah" and a head nod absolutely dripping with swagger, and then of course we are treated to an epic display of artistic gunplay unlike anything anyone had seen before, extremely unique and despite being over the top it wasn't unbelievable by any means. It was just awesome. I could watch that scene daily and not grow tired of it.
I guess, I'm mostly curious if there is a specific reason why you didn't reference this scene? I can't imagine you think that scene is garbage?
Anyway, sorry for the long winded comment, this is not a criticism of your analysis/comparison at all, I agree 100% with regard to the sequels action... It felt very uninspired, too often unrealistic, and like the sequences were only there because of how amazing the first movies action was and they knew people would want to have that kind of experience again. Sadly, it was a swing and a miss.
Optimistic about the new one coming in December, but from what I've seen, definitely feels like were gonna get an experience similar to the 2 sequels coupled with a money grab... Anyway, love the content, Mayo, the love and thought you put into your videos is obvious. Always fair assessments of that which you are reviewing regardless of what may have been done previously by a particular developer or IP. Just know very few offer the same level of quality content consistently and I appreciate the time you put into your work. If something is worth doing, it's worth doing right. Refreshing to know you appear to live by a similar code... Cheers brother, thanks again! Full Auto Mod, Squad-Up!
Because most western film fights are boring in general unless there's guns involved.
Even as a huge fan of the Matrix I wish Neo had started breaking bones on all those agents. I wanted to see bloody bodies laying all around. Instead, they literally all just kept getting back up completely unharmed. Not even a ruffled tie..
It was like a game with invicibility turned on for everyone. You'd have fun playing for a bit then you'd just get bored and turn the game off. (Or fly away in this case lol)
Un-related to this video, you made me check out Doom Eternal again and holy shit I haven’t had so much fun in a long time. I also checked out God of War again, and I agree, on a second playthrough after the novelty wore off it was a struggle to get through
You aren't enjoying all that boat rowing?
@@underthemayo if only doom had more ultra-realistic boat rowing mechanics. That game is too arcady and needs more open world travel realism
Matrix 4 was satanic
Totally nailed it. The sequels were a massive disappointment for me. And it’s not that I hate them and I appreciate anyone who enjoys them for what they are but that first Matrix movie was like a religious experience for me as a moviegoer. Resurrections looks like it can be very good if they get it right and I’m looking for forward to going back into The Matrix.
Part 1 is just neo repeating any information given to him, but in question form.
You should have mentioned the Smith vs Neo fight in real world, since it has those elements.
Keanu looks stressed in the matrix because cyberpunk happened
Challenge Matters: How good action films push you into their characters
Happy Thanksgiving Mayo!
I don't know if you've seen a lot of Jackie Chan movies, but his tend to let him get hurt plenty. It makes you root for him in a very efficient, entertaining way
love it when your content branches out like this! Great video!
Did you just insinuate that The Matrix used wires and then Crouching Tiger did? Dude, decades of Hong Kong cinema would like a word with you! In fact all of Chinese action movies from the 70s to now would like a word.
Ok, but you missed the point of Reloaded. Neo was nigh invincible, but his friends weren’t. The drama was him trying to save them. Yes, the CGI was atrocious, but Neo never being in danger wasn’t the crux of the drama.
Well if Neo was nigh invincible and not his friends, then why don't those 100 Agent Smiths go and attack THEM instead of HIM?? It still doesn't really seem to make sense according to that logic.
@@rigelb9025 cause he's literally the one lmao
I understand and agree with your points in this video, yet somehow I found _Ip Man_ to be a strange exception, and I can't figure out why. Donny Yen absolutely wrecks every single opponent he faces without breaking a sweat, yet I was never bored at any point. I've watched that movie over and over!
I think because how much of a prick the antagonist was. I hated the antagonist of that movie with all my heart.
I think all of this points to a deep-seated flaw I've noticed in (at least modern) Hollywood. It goes like this : Awesome trend-setting movie is made, and happens to be wildly successful at the box-office, as well as with the critics. YAY IT WORKED!!! LET'S MAKE SOME MORE OF THEM AND MILK THE FRANCHISE 'TILL THERE AIN'T NO MORE MARROW LET TO MILK.. AND THEN, LET'S MILK IT SOME MORE!!!! (Case-in-point : ''The Matrix-Resurrections''). My point is that once movie magic has happenned, it can never be fully re-created. New stuff needs to be made (even when dealing with a sequel, and I believe Terminator 2 to be the best example of this actually working). This trend in Hollywood of constantly re-hashing old stuff with only ''Nostalgia'' as an argument, I personally find to be quite degrading to the entire industry, and to me as a spectator, even if I choose to skip those films. I just find it has a blatant disregard for artistic integrity, as well as being an insult to the intelligence of the audience.
The robocop comparison was good and makes sense.
Hey Mayo , would love to know your opinion of the original Max Payne. Great video as always.
That fight scene wasn't actually bloodless.